Are Universalists, Trinitarians?

[rosered]

  Jesus Christ has tasted death for everyman ,  so we can taste  GOD  and know His goodness !!!!!!!


  make the tree good and its fruits    or make it corrupt a tree is known by its fruits  ,

the fruits of the HOLY SPIRIT are     Living by the  Holy Spirit  of LIFE IN HIS WORD OF LIFE .

...21envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.   but  have   this  and is the corruption  / death     of carnal mindedness   that is the enemy of the Spirit of Light & life



22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law....

Taste and See the Lord is Good     [ eat my body and drink my blood that you might have LIFE in you ]   
Psalms 34
...7The angel of the LORD encamps around those who fear Him,

And rescues them.


8O taste and see that the LORD is good;

How blessed is the man who takes refuge in Him!


9O fear the LORD, you His saints; For to those who fear Him there is no want.... :HeartThrob:

ALL  come from GOD and all goes back to God  who gave it all in the first place  in the end .   

It is this simple of a  truth .

[CST]

CST,

Some of your descriptions, concerning the tree of life and the flaming sword for instance, are insightful and beautiful.

As far a division is concerned, the doctrinal issue does not cause it. The doctrinal issue is simply a point at which the carnal man gathers around the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and eats.

God is not, imo, in the slightest concerned whether we understand the nuts and bolts of the relationships within the deity- Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. he is more concerned if we understand that we are begotten from above by the living and abiding word of God unto a fervent love of the brethren. As Jesus prayed, "that they may be one as you and I are one".

There are various views upon these other things which men and women of good conscience may see differently- I personally think they are purposely obscured to test us.

I believe God will not be put in any box of our making and disregards our definitions as specious and self-serving for the most part. This is why Paul says not to get caught up in endless arguments about doubtful(hard to see clearly) disputations- BECAUSE THEY SUBVERT THE HEARERS. (These angry and divisive discussions undermine the faith of both seekers and new believers.)

The flaming sword stands at the entrance of the garden for all those who get too caught up in those things. James chapter 3 breaks it down well, for me anyway....


13 Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom.

Flaming sword- works of the flesh disguised as spirit.....

14 But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your heart, do not be arrogant and so lie against the truth. 15 This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but is earthly, natural, demonic. 16 For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there is disorder and every evil thing.


Tree of Life- fruit of the spirit.....

But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, unwavering, without hypocrisy. 18 And the seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.


Factually, as regards salvation and inclusion in the universal body over which Jesus Christ is head,
all anyone needs to understand is that Jesus is the only begotten Son of YHWH and that He died for our sins, was raised from the dead, and lives as Lord and Savior- but even this factual understanding is not enough unless it is the result of a conversion, and interior connection to Him that has begun the process of changing our nature into conformity with His- because He is the tree of life and communion with Him brings forth the fruit of the Spirit.

"You believe God is one? The devils believe also and tremble"

I hav no problem with anyones's view of the Godhead until they try to make it a law- an established fact unto which everyone else must submit.

Those who are eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil are always going outside of Christ and establishing points of "knowledge" that become prerequisites to communion. This is unholy and results in division because it is rooted in the ego/flesh/carnal mind.

"Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies(builds up)"

15 but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ, 16 from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.[/b] Eph 4

While many people are absolutely certain their bond with some "truth" is critical to being "right", all these truths are subject to the truth of love.

Therefore I, the prisoner of the Lord, implore you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling with which you have been called, 2with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love, 3being diligent to preserve the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.... Eph 4

The truth is they are mostly deceived- even when the 'truth" they teach is really "true"( factually)- because they hold that truth in the flesh as a support to their ego.

Perfect love casts out all fear, and fear has torment. When we walk in perfected love we are not threatened by someone telling us we are "wrong", because the perfection of love comes from fellowship with Him, the tree of life. We dont get riled up and threaten people with judgment when they disagree with us.

No one is completely perfected in this, we mature as a process of the dealings of God in our lives. but  as James writes,if  we have "selfish ambition and bitter jealousy" in our hearts we are "fooling ourselves". We are like a man who looks in a mirror and then walks away and immediately forgets who he was looking at.

Most of us would reject the idea that we may have "selfish ambition" driving things we believe, but if our ego is involved in our theology, we definitely do, and it fuels the vitriol that develops when we discuss disputable topics.

Only when the flesh is dead and we have no personal horses in the race can we really discuss the word of God as- as the rabbi's called it "mid-rash"- and be open to recieve enlightenment from the Spirit. That is maturity.

Love is the greater truth- the first law of Christ. "No greater love has a man than this, that he lay down his life for his friends."

Jesus made peace by removing the barriers, but we just keep putting them back up again as new traditions- and traditions make the word of God of none effect(in the lives of traditionalists and those under their influence).

We cannot fix that in this forum. whether it is 'free will' or 'godhead' or 'soul sleep' or whatever, many universalists are as attached to their traditions as anyone, and totally assured of their "correctness' in the positions they hold on these mysteries which, imo, are "seen through a glass darkly" in any case.

So, discussions on these things usually wind up with offenses and misunderstandings.

I understand why we continue to go there. Since UR is a "non- traditionalist" heresy ;o), you would think that you would find an openess to discuss all these things with a civilized detachment and an intelligent, scholarly, conversational tone- but it is not so. we are all in different places as we grow in grace.

Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away; 7 but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory; 8 the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory; 9 but just as it is written,

"Things which eye has not seen and ear has not heard,
And which have not entered the heart of man,
All that God has prepared for those who love Him."

10 For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. 11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, 13 which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words.

14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

One of the first things a disciple must learn is if he/she is speaking to a spiritual person or a carnal one. Jesus said, "cast not your pearls before swine". Isaiah said, "The Lord has given me the tongue of disciples(the learned) that I might speak a word "in season" to sustain a weary one."

Jesus said, "Take my yoke upon you and learn of Me for I am gentle and humble and you will find rest for your souls."

Butting heads and eating garbage with goats in the goat yard is the passion of some folks. Those who walk with the Shepherd are led beside still waters and graze in green pastures and are comforted by His rod and staff.

Thank you Lord for teaching us to reign in our minds and tame our tongues so that we can be fruitful in the harvest :o)


PS... Sometimes I wonder if we should have a sub-forum for discussing all these doctrinal issues where the topics will not detract from our purpose here, which is to teach the Salvation of All through the cross of Jesus Christ- our Savior and Lord.

Insightful and beautiful? I thought I was just waffling. At best I thought all I was doing was turning what Rosered said into a shorthand which I thought was the common theological understanding of the flaming sword anyway.

I'm actually amazed I'm quoting St. Paul. I understand his epistles minimally, question them maximally and doubt the most immediate understanding of certain parts that seem to me to be self-evidently incorrect, which by the way I don't consider automatically untruthful.

Nevertheless that quote seems pertinent here given that Paul challenged what he considered heresies very frequently in his epistles and he does say, in that quote, that we are "united in the same mind and the same judgment." Now to me one person saying the nature of God is like this and another saying no it's like this appear to be conflicting judgments. It drives me crazy because I accept everything that you say about these sort of things, these things it is impossible to see how it would be remotely any more helpful and add anything to wisdom if we some how did resolve the question.

I also agree that there are many things "purposely obscured to test us" a bit like the parables. But at the same time presumably it's possible to fail the test. I mean I would have to concluded that any Christian who does not believe as we do that Jesus will succeed in saving the whole human family has had that truth obscured from them. But that affects their psychology. And seemed to undermine their salvation because they'll be offended as soon as they see God saving people they believed that He wasn't going to save. They're likely to get very grumpy some of them and I'm not sure heaven would fit them (us) at that time. hat's like failing a test, what are the consequences? Well, a spell in the lake of fire quite possibly.

I'm certainly among those people you talk about there, but knowing that doesn't change it. I know the Bible has a lot of good stuff to say about the truth and very little good stuff to say about what is false. I actually have slightly more complexed perspective than the black and white of a lot of those people we label literalist fundamentalists.

So I struggle with the Bible thus, it makes a lot of reasonably sense reading it but as soon as you think about putting it into practice it doesn't seem to fit at all.

I should also point out just before I end that the expression, as I understand, not to cast peals before swine that Jesus used was a Jewish idiom about not wasting the things of God, like miracles, on the unworthy, like Gentiles or the unclean. I should also mention that pretty much immediately after saying this Jesus went of and excised a bunch of demons from a swine herd by placing them in his swine.

When I think of the Trinity I still think Matt 28 is pretty strong now. Baptize in the name of...

Even stronger when I remember the third commandment. "You shall not use the name of YHWH your God improperly for YHWH will not hold as innocent anyone who makes improper use of His name. (or similar) 

BTW you are aware that the very first quote in that post the one from Jesus, would also seem to answer your own question on the Shema?

[micah7:9]

The "trinity" teaching is a " theological theory" and as EW pointed out it has been discussed  on this forum six ways from Sunday, and as far as I think, you can be whatever sect or denomination you call ones self and believe in a theory. (imo)

[Below is not an opinion for it is written]

Deu 6:4 Hear, Israel! Yahweh is our Elohim; Yahweh the only One.
Joh 10:30 I and the Father, We are one."
Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, Who is over all and through all and in all.

[Cristina100]

According to David and Zoe Sulem the Trinity is one of many biblical doctrines in addition to Hell,immortality of the soul, the prosperity gospel and speaking in  tongues.

www.godsplanforall.com

[Cristina100]

Sorry, I meant unbibical doctrines.

[Cristina100]

Sorry, I meant unbiblical doctrines.

[eaglesway]

Some consider the doctrine of the trinity biblical, some dont. We all must study it out for ourselves and come to a conclusion of our own, The important thing is that we do not have to judge others for what they believe just because they judge us for what we believe.

This site is not set up for debates about the Godhead doctrine or speaking in tongues, etc.

It is for the proclamation and explanation of the doctrine of the salvation of all.

For instance, I speak in tongues. But if someone on here believes that is bad practice or scripturally incorrect- we are not here to debate that subject. There are other forums where those discussions are had.

Our fellowship in Jesus Christ does not have to be interrupted with judgments every time we disagree about a doctrine, unless it is one of the few truths that are fundamental to saving faith in him.

In my opinion those doctrinal truths necessary to salvation are,

The virgin birth and Jesus Christ as "the only begotten Son of God"

The sinless life of Christ in His perfect obedience and love for His Father and mankind

The sacrificial death of Christ at the cross for the forgiveness of sin

The resurrection of Jesus Christ in the body and His ascension into the heavenly realms as Lord and Savior


In my opinion these additional doctrines are necessary to successful fellowship

All members of Christ are one Body.

That the 66 books of the canon are the scriptures of the Christian faith and the basis for discussing, exploring and debating the truth.

That God has called us to love every one who is a member of the body of Christ in a special way, even if we disagree with them on some truth or another.

That God has called us to love everyone, even our enemies.

That God has called us to be gentle, patient and prayerful towards our doctrinal adversaries.



On TM we fellowship around a purpose of spreading the victorious gospel. The Restoration of All Things, The Salvation of All, Ultimate Universal Reconciliation- all through Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior.

As Christian brothers and sisters we can discuss other general issues of doctrine and life in Christ in order to serve one another. The point at which another discussion ceases to serve and begins to create hostility and distraction from the primary purpose of the site is the point at which we moderate them to the best of our ability.

[CST]

  Jesus Christ has tasted death for everyman ,  so we can taste  GOD  and know His goodness !!!!!!!


  make the tree good and its fruits    or make it corrupt a tree is known by its fruits  ,

the fruits of the HOLY SPIRIT are     Living by the  Holy Spirit  of LIFE IN HIS WORD OF LIFE .

...21envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.   but  have   this  and is the corruption  / death     of carnal mindedness   that is the enemy of the Spirit of Light & life



22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law....

Taste and See the Lord is Good     [ eat my body and drink my blood that you might have LIFE in you ]   
Psalms 34
...7The angel of the LORD encamps around those who fear Him,

And rescues them.


8O taste and see that the LORD is good;

How blessed is the man who takes refuge in Him!


9O fear the LORD, you His saints; For to those who fear Him there is no want.... :HeartThrob:

ALL  come from GOD and all goes back to God  who gave it all in the first place  in the end .   

It is this simple of a  truth .

:) I like that sentiment I strugle with it though especially as I'm not sure I feel it much of the time.

[CST]

Some consider the doctrine of the trinity biblical, some dont. We all must study it out for ourselves and come to a conclusion of our own, The important thing is that we do not have to judge others for what they believe just because they judge us for what we believe.

This site is not set up for debates about the Godhead doctrine or speaking in tongues, etc.

It is for the proclamation and explanation of the doctrine of the salvation of all.

For instance, I speak in tongues. But if someone on here believes that is bad practice or scripturally incorrect- we are not here to debate that subject. There are other forums where those discussions are had.

Our fellowship in Jesus Christ does not have to be interrupted with judgments every time we disagree about a doctrine, unless it is one of the few truths that are fundamental to saving faith in him.

In my opinion those doctrinal truths necessary to salvation are,

The virgin birth and Jesus Christ as "the only begotten Son of God"

The sinless life of Christ in His perfect obedience and love for His Father and mankind

The sacrificial death of Christ at the cross for the forgiveness of sin

The resurrection of Jesus Christ in the body and His ascension into the heavenly realms as Lord and Savior


In my opinion these additional doctrines are necessary to successful fellowship

All members of Christ are one Body.

That the 66 books of the canon are the scriptures of the Christian faith and the basis for discussing, exploring and debating the truth.

That God has called us to love every one who is a member of the body of Christ in a special way, even if we disagree with them on some truth or another.

That God has called us to love everyone, even our enemies.

That God has called us to be gentle, patient and prayerful towards our doctrinal adversaries.



On TM we fellowship around a purpose of spreading the victorious gospel. The Restoration of All Things, The Salvation of All, Ultimate Universal Reconciliation- all through Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior.

As Christian brothers and sisters we can discuss other general issues of doctrine and life in Christ in order to serve one another. The point at which another discussion ceases to serve and begins to create hostility and distraction from the primary purpose of the site is the point at which we moderate them to the best of our ability.

All those beliefs seemed fine to me except I'm not sure what it means to say Jesus is the only begotton Son of God without the Trinity.

I have continued concerns though because in the Old Testament there's a story where a prophet tells a man to strike him and then the man refuses and so the prophet curses him and as cursed he goes off and gets eaten by a lion, a lion!

Not behaving violently to another human seems a perfectly reasonable act of restraint from a perfectly plausible position. But apparently it isn't.

The fact is, going on the evidence God doesn't seem to be terribly flexible and that makes me doubt about things like these even when I'd like to say most everyone is right on these matters where possible one where or the other.

[jugghead]

All those beliefs seemed fine to me except I'm not sure what it means to say Jesus is the only begotton Son of God without the Trinity.

How I understand the word "begotten" is first: we know Christ is also referred to as "The Word", the thoughts of the Father are words but words as one, like us thinking to ourselves, we can speak to ourselves inside our own mind.

I see the word "begotten" the same as the word "manifested", when God said "Let there be light" it is seeing Christ being manifested (begotten, being given birth to) outside of the Father as His "spoken" word. and the word "spoken" is another word that also is used in the same way as "begotten" and "manifested".

All this because we know when His Spirit moves upon our waters (thoughts) we speak out of the Divine Nature of God and manifest that nature through our words (which actually is His WORD).

my  :2c:

[CST]

All those beliefs seemed fine to me except I'm not sure what it means to say Jesus is the only begotton Son of God without the Trinity.

How I understand the word "begotten" is first: we know Christ is also referred to as "The Word", the thoughts of the Father are words but words as one, like us thinking to ourselves, we can speak to ourselves inside our own mind.

I see the word "begotten" the same as the word "manifested", when God said "Let there be light" it is seeing Christ being manifested (begotten, being given birth to) outside of the Father as His "spoken" word. and the word "spoken" is another word that also is used in the same way as "begotten" and "manifested".

All this because we know when His Spirit moves upon our waters (thoughts) we speak out of the Divine Nature of God and manifest that nature through our words (which actually is His WORD).

my  :2c:

If it meant first wouldn't it be easier just to understand that.

My usual understanding of 'begotten' relates to breeding and the fact that God conceived Jesus with Mary and she gave birth to Him. Only God, the Father remains God, the Father through all of this and God can't really breed because if He literally bred there would be another God and there isn't.

But at the same time the Bible teaches that Jesus existed and was with God even before He was conceived in Mary as a human baby and the Holy Spirit was also there because the human baby we call Jesus was conceived through the Holy Spirit, which is a bit strange if we're trying to distinguish the Holy Spirit from the Father in some way.

Gee, no wonder this is confusing.

But I don't want to say any more, I think I may have said to much already.

That was how I used to understand begotten when used in scripture of Jesus. It kind of still is but I find it confusing.

[rosered]

  Dear CST ,

I am such a simple gal and need things explained very   simple  and  truthful  ,   brutal  even  , without all the ''fluff''  .

  And wanting to help  you and not ''confuse you '' any further   ,  and just share this simple   run   down without all the work of looking though the scriptures    to explain   how  many of us come to our own conclusions  and ability to share   what the Spirit is saying , only   the Spirit can ''quicken  the Word and give it life in you ''

   Jesus Christ come to show us the  'WAY''   the way  is being born like Jesus Christ  ,   HIS NAME    under heaven by which you must be saved   meaning   
'''salvation anointed ''    , this is important  names mean things     

  By the Holy Spirit    hovering over Mary  , name meaning''   bitter ,  rebellion  , desired child '' 

   Paul was telling us in other scriptures    I am making you'' chaste  virgins for Christ ''       This to me is meaning to   clean out the old    mixing of flesh and spirit   , by  dividing it in to    what is flesh is  flesh and what is spirit is spirit      , and    the flesh does not inherit    a  thing of God but death , this mixing was always Babylon    that is destroyed   by Gods  WORD   being   the    7 Spirits ,   7 trumpets  ,  7  churches 7 bowels of wrath   etc ..    7 means complete  or total   end

   
Now  the spirit inherits all things of God ..   Life , death and Christ  etc , If anyone who reads the bible would note that many times the WORD OF GOD   calls  Jesus   Christ   simply the Christ  in some places   , meaning simply the anointed   of Gods  purpose   and plan ,  or the Lord Jesus Christ , meaning the Master  or teacher   of the WORD OF GOD     AS SALVATIONS ANOINTING   

JESUS CHRIST IS THE WORD OF GOD  IN ACTION    , this seed  planted is the CHRIST/anointing  in you the hope of glory ...
  this glory is Gods glory   to HIS NAME  SAKE

Has anyone wondered why you get a new   name   and new name  of GOD     AND HIS NEW NAME    city  IN REV 3 ?  WHY DOES JESUS CHRIST get a new  name  ?


  I see this as  ALL  the new creation  , that simple ...   The sons of God  that come though His Word   and Spirit   but these NAMES are written in the BOOK OF LIFE


I will share again what the Spirit has given me when asking for His help   to understand   it .
And I do NOT    understand it all yet  , but this salvation is nearer than when I first believed    in GOD as my savior   , its very personal and very   much the KINGDOM OF GOD IS WITHIN YOU    , and   the feelings of   every emotion is real   and not to be mocked or disregarded   as such , you    only get  what you   need at the times to fulfill His own desire and  without faith you will not please Him and have cut yourself off  .     as a dead branch   for another fiery trial of faith   to experience and go though in this life and   in His presence  and of all the heavenly  hosts   ...
 

I do  believe it is a process   , when you  begin to read the bible with your caral mind , fear grips you    , that animal instinct    fears the fire    not understanding the  plan of God at all   , but    fears the Lord   and His wrath coming   

  this is when the  FATHER    gives you eyes to see    , the first part of being healed    , the written Word is the letter of the  law that kills   and everyone gets to experience this that believes    , because  we are chastened of the LORD and scourged     greatly humbled    and the fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom

  The eyes to see  are able to read the Word of God in a new light    , not the old light of fear and carnality  that is the enemy of the  HOLY SPIRIT     and always speaks wrong of the things of God   ,  that love of God has not even begin to  manifest itself     yet   , the FULLNESS OF LOVE COMES IN THE END  , but destroys the  beastly nature in you  by the   consuming of Gods fire , God is a consuming Fire   , for me that is the new and Holy one spirit    given by God to   remove the old Adamic   nature that ate of the  forbidden   tree   whom was defiled  and corrupted     bad spirit , of evil nature   only to inherit  in death    driven  out   to wander this man of sin    is an evil spirit  and selfish  and desire to rule  over the soul and body  as a god  all  of this world   and demonic ,  now when this is removed by thew work of  GOD   to make the soul  / or   being /life force  , breath of GOD  able to receive the new seed  /word of God ,,,   

Jesus even gave an example of cleaning  out the house [in mankind ]    when  the Spirit of God  comes the first time   to  prepare it for HIS  PRESENCE
    and the 3 parts are    body soul and spirit   1 Thess 5 23Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass....

      The  second thing that happens is  you get  those ears to   hear what the Spirit is saying ,     as the Word quickens in you  , you begin to feel this new life moving   and growing    within , like a woman with child   , its a part of you  , yet it is of its own  , a   holy thing

and being submissive and obedient to you new husband   or ruler of the HOUSE  AS HOLINESS  UNTO THE LORD  and faithful ,
God is showing us how its done  in everyone called out of the world  and separated   for Himself  , being apart of the Body of Christ    as   the Woman  church  , where two in twain become ONE FLESH    ,    this new body   is filling up the earth with Holy Spirit and fire   , the fire of Gods love and the  fire against all things that offend   , babylon  her flesh is  set on fire by the  beasts  natures  , carnality    as  satan  adversary  who is used for the destruction of our  mortal flesh    , our mortal bodies as  , His own work of salvation  and anointing

   part 3 the body by making the new creation   as  the sons of God  manifest   , this birthing is  done in one day    or 1000 year reign     as satan is bound for the 1000  years  and Christ reigns    over   all    judging and making war   till  all enemies are  destroyed   that last being death   as  LIFE is given for the dead ,,,   and   given to  GOD  , GOD IS THE GOD OF THE LIVING   , THIS LIVING WORD   ACTUALLY   heals others by   ''touching them ''  also   with the  LOVING VIBRATION  OF LIFE ITSELF   and fulfills all things

    so it is the written word that becomes the spoken word and   than the LIVING  WORD    , YOU become  a part of  a living epistle    or letter    , message of LIFE  LIVING IN GOD S WORD   that judges   us all    and LOVE  IS THE END  RESULT     , LOVE  heals restores  and makes new     LOVE IS WHAT THRIVES AND IS LIFE

    Knowing some of this will never make sense   to anyone  just sharing some of the things that have been given and if they are wrong or right God knows   , my heart and never intend to deceive   anyone  , and to help us understand    what the Love of God really  means to us all     

  I might  delete this  ,its  not as clear  as hoped  , so many thoughts   come to mind  and hard to keep them straight   forward    and simple ..





 

 

[CST]

  Dear CST ,

I am such a simple gal and need things explained very   simple  and  truthful  ,   brutal  even  , without all the "fluff"  .

  And wanting to help  you and not "confuse you " any further   ,  and just share this simple   run   down without all the work of looking though the scriptures    to explain   how  many of us come to our own conclusions  and ability to share   what the Spirit is saying , only   the Spirit can "quicken  the Word and give it life in you "

   Jesus Christ come to show us the  'WAY"   the way  is being born like Jesus Christ  ,   HIS NAME    under heaven by which you must be saved   meaning   
"'salvation anointed "    , this is important  names mean things     

  By the Holy Spirit    hovering over Mary  , name meaning"   bitter ,  rebellion  , desired child " 

   Paul was telling us in other scriptures    I am making you" chaste  virgins for Christ "       This to me is meaning to   clean out the old    mixing of flesh and spirit   , by  dividing it in to    what is flesh is  flesh and what is spirit is spirit      , and    the flesh does not inherit    a  thing of God but death , this mixing was always Babylon    that is destroyed   by Gods  WORD   being   the    7 Spirits ,   7 trumpets  ,  7  churches 7 bowels of wrath   etc ..    7 means complete  or total   end

   
Now  the spirit inherits all things of God ..   Life , death and Christ  etc , If anyone who reads the bible would note that many times the WORD OF GOD   calls  Jesus   Christ   simply the Christ  in some places   , meaning simply the anointed   of Gods  purpose   and plan ,  or the Lord Jesus Christ , meaning the Master  or teacher   of the WORD OF GOD     AS SALVATIONS ANOINTING   

JESUS CHRIST IS THE WORD OF GOD  IN ACTION    , this seed  planted is the CHRIST/anointing  in you the hope of glory ...
  this glory is Gods glory   to HIS NAME  SAKE

Has anyone wondered why you get a new   name   and new name  of GOD     AND HIS NEW NAME    city  IN REV 3 ?  WHY DOES JESUS CHRIST get a new  name  ?


  I see this as  ALL  the new creation  , that simple ...   The sons of God  that come though His Word   and Spirit   but these NAMES are written in the BOOK OF LIFE


I will share again what the Spirit has given me when asking for His help   to understand   it .
And I do NOT    understand it all yet  , but this salvation is nearer than when I first believed    in GOD as my savior   , its very personal and very   much the KINGDOM OF GOD IS WITHIN YOU    , and   the feelings of   every emotion is real   and not to be mocked or disregarded   as such , you    only get  what you   need at the times to fulfill His own desire and  without faith you will not please Him and have cut yourself off  .     as a dead branch   for another fiery trial of faith   to experience and go though in this life and   in His presence  and of all the heavenly  hosts   ...
 

I do  believe it is a process   , when you  begin to read the bible with your caral mind , fear grips you    , that animal instinct    fears the fire    not understanding the  plan of God at all   , but    fears the Lord   and His wrath coming   

  this is when the  FATHER    gives you eyes to see    , the first part of being healed    , the written Word is the letter of the  law that kills   and everyone gets to experience this that believes    , because  we are chastened of the LORD and scourged     greatly humbled    and the fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom

  The eyes to see  are able to read the Word of God in a new light    , not the old light of fear and carnality  that is the enemy of the  HOLY SPIRIT     and always speaks wrong of the things of God   ,  that love of God has not even begin to  manifest itself     yet   , the FULLNESS OF LOVE COMES IN THE END  , but destroys the  beastly nature in you  by the   consuming of Gods fire , God is a consuming Fire   , for me that is the new and Holy one spirit    given by God to   remove the old Adamic   nature that ate of the  forbidden   tree   whom was defiled  and corrupted     bad spirit , of evil nature   only to inherit  in death    driven  out   to wander this man of sin    is an evil spirit  and selfish  and desire to rule  over the soul and body  as a god  all  of this world   and demonic ,  now when this is removed by thew work of  GOD   to make the soul  / or   being /life force  , breath of GOD  able to receive the new seed  /word of God ,,,   

Jesus even gave an example of cleaning  out the house [in mankind ]    when  the Spirit of God  comes the first time   to  prepare it for HIS  PRESENCE
    and the 3 parts are    body soul and spirit   1 Thess 5 23Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass....

      The  second thing that happens is  you get  those ears to   hear what the Spirit is saying ,     as the Word quickens in you  , you begin to feel this new life moving   and growing    within , like a woman with child   , its a part of you  , yet it is of its own  , a   holy thing

and being submissive and obedient to you new husband   or ruler of the HOUSE  AS HOLINESS  UNTO THE LORD  and faithful ,
God is showing us how its done  in everyone called out of the world  and separated   for Himself  , being apart of the Body of Christ    as   the Woman  church  , where two in twain become ONE FLESH    ,    this new body   is filling up the earth with Holy Spirit and fire   , the fire of Gods love and the  fire against all things that offend   , babylon  her flesh is  set on fire by the  beasts  natures  , carnality    as  satan  adversary  who is used for the destruction of our  mortal flesh    , our mortal bodies as  , His own work of salvation  and anointing

   part 3 the body by making the new creation   as  the sons of God  manifest   , this birthing is  done in one day    or 1000 year reign     as satan is bound for the 1000  years  and Christ reigns    over   all    judging and making war   till  all enemies are  destroyed   that last being death   as  LIFE is given for the dead ,,,   and   given to  GOD  , GOD IS THE GOD OF THE LIVING   , THIS LIVING WORD   ACTUALLY   heals others by   "touching them "  also   with the  LOVING VIBRATION  OF LIFE ITSELF   and fulfills all things

    so it is the written word that becomes the spoken word and   than the LIVING  WORD    , YOU become  a part of  a living epistle    or letter    , message of LIFE  LIVING IN GOD S WORD   that judges   us all    and LOVE  IS THE END  RESULT     , LOVE  heals restores  and makes new     LOVE IS WHAT THRIVES AND IS LIFE

    Knowing some of this will never make sense   to anyone  just sharing some of the things that have been given and if they are wrong or right God knows   , my heart and never intend to deceive   anyone  , and to help us understand    what the Love of God really  means to us all     

  I might  delete this  ,its  not as clear  as hoped  , so many thoughts   come to mind  and hard to keep them straight   forward    and simple ..





 

Too late! :laugh:

:smile: Seriously, keep it. We all want it simple and without the fluff but we all seem to struggle to find it. The end product of this seems to prove it. We also all seem to look at the Bible and then find fluff in certain places and substances in others and all in different places that's why we end up with these disputes in the first place. In general it does matter to me or indeed anyone else on this forum what you think as we can see your sincerity and kindness in what your trying to do and you come across really well,

Unfortunately atheists and heathens (can I say that words become 'bad' so frequently these days) come across as such when they argue about what they think. We don't have a problem with any of these people generally and wouldn't be inclined to condemn any of these people but to some degree or another we all argue to some extreme or the other decide that God will, He must for some reason. It makes everything seem very unsimple.

By the way, there's a hymn that states simply that that new name everyone gets is simply and unambiguously "love" which makes sense really although it doesn't answer all our questions and may indeed created new ones.

[jugghead]

Excellent post Rose ..... and I agree with CST, please keep it up ..... His Word through us does not come back void, when the time is right others will glean from the corners

By your posts CST, I can tell you are walking in faith ..... which we know that it comes from the root word meaning "to convince" ..... we walk in faith when we continue on our journey of understanding in what we have already been convinced is the truth; that has come out of the Father, through Christ, by His Spirit (from the source to us and back again)

The way He taught me to deal with struggles is the example of: subjects of math

as we struggle to understand things of God is like trigonometry, but before we can understand how that works, the prerequisites are geometry and algebra and before we can even understand those subjects we first have to learn to add, subtract, multiply and divide

We may not understand trigonometry at the moment, but rest assured, He is continuing to teach us because He knows we have to understand the other subjects completely before He moves us on to the next one.

And that is the other part of faith, having faith that He will help us to understand. (from us to the source and than back again)

Blessings brother CST
Jugghead

[eaglesway]

All those beliefs seemed fine to me except I'm not sure what it means to say Jesus is the only begotton Son of God without the Trinity.

No, it doesnt mean that at all actually. All it means is what a person believes about the Trinity,  either way,(along with most of the other doctrines people go round and round about) is not critical for salvation or necessary to fellowship in the body of Christ, or required for fellowship in TM.

We are here to share the victorious gospel. Most of our threads ought to wind back towards that area of scripture because that is the reason the Spirit established this site. In other words, that is the "word" here and the leading of the Holy Spirit.

The owner of the site prefers to keep this a "safe zone" so people from various backgrounds can come here and learn about UR without having to "pass thru the fire" of various debates and feel forced to attack or defend other doctrinal issues.

I agree with that perspective entirely.

[jabcat]

Agreed John.

Also, to believe in Jesus and the Father as distinct entities in and of itself neither necessarily rejects or supports the classical Trinity doctrine.  Many do believe in a Trinity of 3 distinct entities, and their salvation is based on the Son.  Others believe in Jesus and the Father as distinct, while also believing the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father that He sends out and uses to accomplish His purposes rather than a "third Person of the Trinity".  And their salvation is based on the Son.  Either way, believe on the Son, crucified and risen, seek Him first.   :2c:

[rosered]

   Thank you  for   your understanding and   also your kindness  brothers .............

     I forgot the  3rd  thing , restoring  the   heart  of  flesh ,Jesus flesh   with the heart of Love for the Father  and Father for His son ,   the   THRONE  to keep the law of Love in our hearts     this total   healing of eyes to see and ears to hear  and heart to understand   total healing   of  spirit ,soul and body ..

  For me,  the hearts of stone are actually   the idols  , the stones of fire  and idols of the heart are the     worshipping one another and ''gods'' of this world in futility and vanity  and all   the  altars made with human hands  and    tons of  sacrifices  of disobedience   :sigh:  , the Bible is subtle  in  many ways about the clues given in many places    , but the clues are there
 
The Purpose of Jesus' Parables
...15FOR THE HEART OF THIS PEOPLE HAS BECOME DULL,to make thick, to make fat, fatten

metaph. to make stupid (to render the soul dull or callous) WITH THEIR EARS THEY SCARCELY HEAR,

AND THEY HAVE CLOSED THEIR EYES, OTHERWISE THEY WOULD SEE WITH THEIR EYES, HEAR WITH THEIR EARS, AND UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART AND RETURN, AND I WOULD HEAL THEM.' 16"But blessed are your eyes, because they see; and your ears, because they hear. 17"For truly I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.


  The heart come  when Jesus   did  and seek after  HIM !!!   Simon    meaning hearing was  given the name Peter '' rock''    because the rock solid  foundational truth come   by the FATHER [  HOLY SPIRIT ]    a clean heart  / white stone , or  new name      rev 3     we remember the process
and a subtle clue Jesus calls   Him Simon  twice   speaking to both   minds  , double minded and unstable   in all their ways , the carnal   and spiritual one , all babes are carnally minded  and have not had their faith tested or exercised  yet  leading to  many experiences  of discerning  spirits , even James and John did not know what spirit they were of wanting to  bring fire down from heaven to destroy those whom  rejected Jesus Word to them   JESUS COME TO SAVE .. heart of LOVE  FOR ALL  as  forgiveness   
  Having  seen  my own self as Peter   his name fit my very nature   more than  a  few times , But God in His mercy and great grace  Keeps being patient with us all ..     Just so thankful
,31"Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat; 32but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail; and you, when once you have turned again, strengthen your brothers."

  the broad path that leads to destruction  of the flesh and confidence in your own abilities    namely pride  of life ..    after this  Peter is  humbled , reinstated  and on that narrow path that leads to LIFE 

 
when Jesus said  do you love  me  3 times to Peter  ? and he said ,Lord/ Master   a slave does not know what the Master is doing ,  you know I do      feed my lambs  , sheep   ,   when you are old ... become a shepherd of the flock and protect them   help them out  , they don't know  where they are  going either ...  they are little lambs of God and easy prey to the evil in the world ....   
  "Tend My sheep. 18"Truly, truly, I say to you, when you were younger, you used to gird yourself and walk wherever you wished; but when you grow old, you will stretch out your hands and someone else will gird you, and bring you where you do not wish to go." 19Now this He said, signifying by what kind of death he would glorify God. And when He had spoken this, He said to him, "Follow Me!"

I do believe those ears heard what the Spirit was saying in the   way Peter died  taking up his cross  and following Jesus to the end .
   Peter was an example  of  Jesus  dealing with us  all , given the same    eyes to see and ears to hear and heart to understand    what the SPOKEN WORD BY THE SPIRIT   is saying   and      though you die in the LORD YOU WILL LIVE   Jesus Christ is the resurrection/ rise up from  death  and the Life in all the fulness of the Godhead  in bodily  form  .
Matthew 16:17
Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.

    LOVE will over come all things   and  conquer   all enemies even death  , for GOD IS LOVE .

  There are so very many scriptures that connect to  the WHOLENESS OF KNOWING GODS LOVE   for all   HIS CREATION    WHEN GOD IS ALL IN ALL  ... :HeartThrob:

[eaglesway]

Agreed John.

Also, to believe in Jesus and the Father as distinct entities in and of itself neither necessarily rejects or supports the classical Trinity doctrine.  Many do believe in a Trinity of 3 distinct entities, and their salvation is based on the Son.  Others believe in Jesus and the Father as distinct, while also believing the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father that He sends out and uses to accomplish His purposes rather than a "third Person of the Trinity".  And their salvation is based on the Son.  Either way, believe on the Son, crucified and risen, seek Him first.   :2c:

Yes. Exactly. And some people believe in the trinity, but dont believe the Son is co-equal to the Father. Still, their salvation is through the Son- though they would be considered heretics by ,many schools of theology.

But praise God, we are by-passing all that! We are going straight for the heresy that all men will be saved through the Son- to the glory of God the Father.  :laughing7:

[GodIsLove]

Agreed John.

Also, to believe in Jesus and the Father as distinct entities in and of itself neither necessarily rejects or supports the classical Trinity doctrine.  Many do believe in a Trinity of 3 distinct entities, and their salvation is based on the Son.  Others believe in Jesus and the Father as distinct, while also believing the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father that He sends out and uses to accomplish His purposes rather than a "third Person of the Trinity".  And their salvation is based on the Son.  Either way, believe on the Son, crucified and risen, seek Him first.   :2c:

Yes. Exactly. And some people believe in the trinity, but dont believe the Son is co-equal to the Father. Still, their salvation is through the Son- though they would be considered heretics by ,many schools of theology.

But praise God, we are by-passing all that! We are going straight for the heresy that all men will be saved through the Son- to the glory of God the Father.  :laughing7:

:thumbsup: :banana:

[rosered]

Agreed John.

Also, to believe in Jesus and the Father as distinct entities in and of itself neither necessarily rejects or supports the classical Trinity doctrine.  Many do believe in a Trinity of 3 distinct entities, and their salvation is based on the Son.  Others believe in Jesus and the Father as distinct, while also believing the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father that He sends out and uses to accomplish His purposes rather than a "third Person of the Trinity".  And their salvation is based on the Son.  Either way, believe on the Son, crucified and risen, seek Him first.   :2c:

Yes. Exactly. And some people believe in the trinity, but dont believe the Son is co-equal to the Father. Still, their salvation is through the Son- though they would be considered heretics by ,many schools of theology.

But praise God, we are by-passing all that! We are going straight for the heresy that all men will be saved through the Son- to the glory of God the Father.  :laughing7:

:thumbsup: :banana:

   :HeartThrob:     AMEN!!    So very Thankful God   KNOWS   our hearts !!!!!!!

[CST]

Excellent post Rose ..... and I agree with CST, please keep it up ..... His Word through us does not come back void, when the time is right others will glean from the corners

By your posts CST, I can tell you are walking in faith ..... which we know that it comes from the root word meaning "to convince" ..... we walk in faith when we continue on our journey of understanding in what we have already been convinced is the truth; that has come out of the Father, through Christ, by His Spirit (from the source to us and back again)

The way He taught me to deal with struggles is the example of: subjects of math

as we struggle to understand things of God is like trigonometry, but before we can understand how that works, the prerequisites are geometry and algebra and before we can even understand those subjects we first have to learn to add, subtract, multiply and divide

We may not understand trigonometry at the moment, but rest assured, He is continuing to teach us because He knows we have to understand the other subjects completely before He moves us on to the next one.

And that is the other part of faith, having faith that He will help us to understand. (from us to the source and than back again)

Blessings brother CST
Jugghead

Thanks very much. The square on the hypotenuse is equal to the square on the sum of the other two sides and I know enough about trig. to know that triangles actually do have three sides.

I don't know much about language though, I was of the impression the root of the word for faith was the same one that gives us fidelity meaning 'trust'. We trust that God will do what He says He's going to do but apparently there are some conditions. <sigh> But it's a very positive post you made all the same, thank you. Blessings to you too.

All those beliefs seemed fine to me except I'm not sure what it means to say Jesus is the only begotton Son of God without the Trinity.

No, it doesnt mean that at all actually. All it means is what a person believes about the Trinity,  either way,(along with most of the other doctrines people go round and round about) is not critical for salvation or necessary to fellowship in the body of Christ, or required for fellowship in TM.

We are here to share the victorious gospel. Most of our threads ought to wind back towards that area of scripture because that is the reason the Spirit established this site. In other words, that is the "word" here and the leading of the Holy Spirit.

The owner of the site prefers to keep this a "safe zone" so people from various backgrounds can come here and learn about UR without having to "pass thru the fire" of various debates and feel forced to attack or defend other doctrinal issues.

I agree with that perspective entirely.

Agreed John.

Also, to believe in Jesus and the Father as distinct entities in and of itself neither necessarily rejects or supports the classical Trinity doctrine.  Many do believe in a Trinity of 3 distinct entities, and their salvation is based on the Son.  Others believe in Jesus and the Father as distinct, while also believing the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father that He sends out and uses to accomplish His purposes rather than a "third Person of the Trinity".  And their salvation is based on the Son.  Either way, believe on the Son, crucified and risen, seek Him first.   :2c:

I wish this was as simple as your making it sound and must seem to you when you see it but I keep digging in my head and just coming up with more obstacles for myself.

Like, for example, you don't think this sort of dispute is pertinent for the site but at the same time one of the guidelines of Tentmaker is that we don't believe that all roads leads to God. A Muslim or a Jew or a Hindu can be as sincere as they like but they won't be saved in the first order. And this is fine because if people worship the wrong god in the wrong way they are committing idolatry. And idolatry is very bad. It means that the offender is not reconciled and is a bad relationship with God. And if they not reconciled they aren't saved, is that right? Have I understood that correctly.

But here's the thing a lot of people who are opposed to the Trinity Christians and non-Christians tend to declare and you can understand there reasoning that Jesus is not God and anyone who believes He is God and worships Him as such is committing idolatry. And if they're right it's hard to see anyone worshiping the 'false god' of Jesus not being punished for idolatry.

But it is also written in the law that people who accuse people of offenses such as idolatry when they are not guilty of it they they should receive the punishment the one they accused would have received, i.e. death.

And this does really seem unfair and Jesus declared that anyone who acknowledges Him before others He will acknowledge before God and anyone who denies Him before other He will deny before God. So how much of 'Him' are we meant to be acknowledging. And is it not idolatry to deny that Jesus is God when in fact He is God. Idolatry is a big deal.

And that's confusing me.

[CST]

   Thank you  for   your understanding and   also your kindness  brothers .............

     I forgot the  3rd  thing , restoring  the   heart  of  flesh ,Jesus flesh   with the heart of Love for the Father  and Father for His son ,   the   THRONE  to keep the law of Love in our hearts     this total   healing of eyes to see and ears to hear  and heart to understand   total healing   of  spirit ,soul and body ..

  For me,  the hearts of stone are actually   the idols  , the stones of fire  and idols of the heart are the     worshipping one another and "gods" of this world in futility and vanity  and all   the  altars made with human hands  and    tons of  sacrifices  of disobedience   :sigh:  , the Bible is subtle  in  many ways about the clues given in many places    , but the clues are there
 
The Purpose of Jesus' Parables
...15FOR THE HEART OF THIS PEOPLE HAS BECOME DULL,to make thick, to make fat, fatten

metaph. to make stupid (to render the soul dull or callous) WITH THEIR EARS THEY SCARCELY HEAR,

AND THEY HAVE CLOSED THEIR EYES, OTHERWISE THEY WOULD SEE WITH THEIR EYES, HEAR WITH THEIR EARS, AND UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART AND RETURN, AND I WOULD HEAL THEM.' 16"But blessed are your eyes, because they see; and your ears, because they hear. 17"For truly I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.


  The heart come  when Jesus   did  and seek after  HIM !!!   Simon    meaning hearing was  given the name Peter " rock"    because the rock solid  foundational truth come   by the FATHER [  HOLY SPIRIT ]    a clean heart  / white stone , or  new name      rev 3     we remember the process
and a subtle clue Jesus calls   Him Simon  twice   speaking to both   minds  , double minded and unstable   in all their ways , the carnal   and spiritual one , all babes are carnally minded  and have not had their faith tested or exercised  yet  leading to  many experiences  of discerning  spirits , even James and John did not know what spirit they were of wanting to  bring fire down from heaven to destroy those whom  rejected Jesus Word to them   JESUS COME TO SAVE .. heart of LOVE  FOR ALL  as  forgiveness   
  Having  seen  my own self as Peter   his name fit my very nature   more than  a  few times , But God in His mercy and great grace  Keeps being patient with us all ..     Just so thankful
,31"Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat; 32but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail; and you, when once you have turned again, strengthen your brothers."

  the broad path that leads to destruction  of the flesh and confidence in your own abilities    namely pride  of life ..    after this  Peter is  humbled , reinstated  and on that narrow path that leads to LIFE 

 
when Jesus said  do you love  me  3 times to Peter  ? and he said ,Lord/ Master   a slave does not know what the Master is doing ,  you know I do      feed my lambs  , sheep   ,   when you are old ... become a shepherd of the flock and protect them   help them out  , they don't know  where they are  going either ...  they are little lambs of God and easy prey to the evil in the world ....   
  "Tend My sheep. 18"Truly, truly, I say to you, when you were younger, you used to gird yourself and walk wherever you wished; but when you grow old, you will stretch out your hands and someone else will gird you, and bring you where you do not wish to go." 19Now this He said, signifying by what kind of death he would glorify God. And when He had spoken this, He said to him, "Follow Me!"

I do believe those ears heard what the Spirit was saying in the   way Peter died  taking up his cross  and following Jesus to the end .
   Peter was an example  of  Jesus  dealing with us  all , given the same    eyes to see and ears to hear and heart to understand    what the SPOKEN WORD BY THE SPIRIT   is saying   and      though you die in the LORD YOU WILL LIVE   Jesus Christ is the resurrection/ rise up from  death  and the Life in all the fulness of the Godhead  in bodily  form  .
Matthew 16:17
Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.

    LOVE will over come all things   and  conquer   all enemies even death  , for GOD IS LOVE .

  There are so very many scriptures that connect to  the WHOLENESS OF KNOWING GODS LOVE   for all   HIS CREATION    WHEN GOD IS ALL IN ALL  ... :HeartThrob:

Thank you, Rosered.

I can't help noticing there seems to be initial irony as well as truth in naming Peter so, the point of the rock is that it's firm but he was frequently very shaky according to the stories about him. Very effective too, mind.

[jabcat]

Excellent post Rose ..... and I agree with CST, please keep it up ..... His Word through us does not come back void, when the time is right others will glean from the corners

By your posts CST, I can tell you are walking in faith ..... which we know that it comes from the root word meaning "to convince" ..... we walk in faith when we continue on our journey of understanding in what we have already been convinced is the truth; that has come out of the Father, through Christ, by His Spirit (from the source to us and back again)

The way He taught me to deal with struggles is the example of: subjects of math

as we struggle to understand things of God is like trigonometry, but before we can understand how that works, the prerequisites are geometry and algebra and before we can even understand those subjects we first have to learn to add, subtract, multiply and divide

We may not understand trigonometry at the moment, but rest assured, He is continuing to teach us because He knows we have to understand the other subjects completely before He moves us on to the next one.

And that is the other part of faith, having faith that He will help us to understand. (from us to the source and than back again)

Blessings brother CST
Jugghead

Thanks very much. The square on the hypotenuse is equal to the square on the sum of the other two sides and I know enough about trig. to know that triangles actually do have three sides.

I don't know much about language though, I was of the impression the root of the word for faith was the same one that gives us fidelity meaning 'trust'. We trust that God will do what He says He's going to do but apparently there are some conditions. <sigh> But it's a very positive post you made all the same, thank you. Blessings to you too.

All those beliefs seemed fine to me except I'm not sure what it means to say Jesus is the only begotton Son of God without the Trinity.

No, it doesnt mean that at all actually. All it means is what a person believes about the Trinity,  either way,(along with most of the other doctrines people go round and round about) is not critical for salvation or necessary to fellowship in the body of Christ, or required for fellowship in TM.

We are here to share the victorious gospel. Most of our threads ought to wind back towards that area of scripture because that is the reason the Spirit established this site. In other words, that is the "word" here and the leading of the Holy Spirit.

The owner of the site prefers to keep this a "safe zone" so people from various backgrounds can come here and learn about UR without having to "pass thru the fire" of various debates and feel forced to attack or defend other doctrinal issues.

I agree with that perspective entirely.

Agreed John.

Also, to believe in Jesus and the Father as distinct entities in and of itself neither necessarily rejects or supports the classical Trinity doctrine.  Many do believe in a Trinity of 3 distinct entities, and their salvation is based on the Son.  Others believe in Jesus and the Father as distinct, while also believing the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father that He sends out and uses to accomplish His purposes rather than a "third Person of the Trinity".  And their salvation is based on the Son.  Either way, believe on the Son, crucified and risen, seek Him first.   :2c:

I wish this was as simple as your making it sound and must seem to you when you see it but I keep digging in my head and just coming up with more obstacles for myself.

Like, for example, you don't think this sort of dispute is pertinent for the site but at the same time one of the guidelines of Tentmaker is that we don't believe that all roads leads to God. A Muslim or a Jew or a Hindu can be as sincere as they like but they won't be saved in the first order. And this is fine because if people worship the wrong god in the wrong way they are committing idolatry. And idolatry is very bad. It means that the offender is not reconciled and is a bad relationship with God. And if they not reconciled they aren't saved, is that right? Have I understood that correctly.

But here's the thing a lot of people who are opposed to the Trinity Christians and non-Christians tend to declare and you can understand there reasoning that Jesus is not God and anyone who believes He is God and worships Him as such is committing idolatry. And if they're right it's hard to see anyone worshiping the 'false god' of Jesus not being punished for idolatry.

But it is also written in the law that people who accuse people of offenses such as idolatry when they are not guilty of it they they should receive the punishment the one they accused would have received, i.e. death.

And this does really seem unfair and Jesus declared that anyone who acknowledges Him before others He will acknowledge before God and anyone who denies Him before other He will deny before God. So how much of 'Him' are we meant to be acknowledging. And is it not idolatry to deny that Jesus is God when in fact He is God. Idolatry is a big deal.

And that's confusing me.

But nothing that's said above denies Jesus is God.  I personally (as well as many others here) believe He is.  Just God the Son (of the same Substance, Being) - not God the Father - but still God.  That can be believed and still believe EITHER of the views expressed above about the Trinity.  Believing the Holy Spirit is a "third Person" of a Trinity, or the Spirit of God that He sends out to indwell and work His purposes, has nothing necessarily to negate Jesus being God, the Savior, etc.   Hope that helps.

[GodIsLove]

I think what underscores a lot of your concern about getting it "right" is that you want to do what is right to please God and secure your salvation.

For me, believing in UR has mostly removed that fear for me. We don't have to worry about getting it right OR ELSE...because we know God is love and cares deeply for us all and we will ultimately be corrected in love and united with Him.

How we experience God's corrections has to do with our own state of mind. If we resist God and feel we know best, it will be a negative experience. If we are open to His corrections it will be easier to endure.  Think of how different people in the bible experience the fire of God---there was no fear on Pentecost because the people who experienced tongues of fire were followers of Christ. Moses spoke to the burning bush and said "Here I am" instead of running away, but he did have some level of fear of looking directly at the bush, the Israelites in Exodus were not afraid of the pillar of fire (God) and He led them.

[eaglesway]

Those are really good words GodisLove,

We dont hav to fear because we know God loves everyone and is causing all things to work together for good. He is not standing over us with a ruler on our beliefs. He is loving us and teaching us how to be mature in love.