Are Universalists, Trinitarians?

[RaiderGonzo]

Maybe it has already been asked, but I dare ask myself from each of you on this site.  :dunno2:

[Lazarus Short]

It's a touchy subject, but Laz is a super-trinitarian.  See, you've got the Father, the Son, and the seven Spirits of God.  That makes nine, a trinity of trinities...

:dsunny:

:dsunny:

:dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny: :dsunny:

...and yet, They are One.  There's another subject we can't get our limited, carnal, three-dimensional minds around.

[joeteekay]

I suspect you are joshing. In fact I am convinced you are!! :winkgrin:

This business of God being one, or two are three has been around since who knows when.   :rolleye:

Simple - God is one  :bowing:

God the Father and Jesus Christ are One.  :sohappy:

[Lazarus Short]

I suspect you are joshing. In fact I am convinced you are!! :winkgrin:

This business of God being one, or two are three has been around since who knows when.   :rolleye:

Simple - God is one  :bowing:

God the Father and Jesus Christ are One.  :sohappy:

I have no problem at all with that, in fact, I said so myself.  Now, let me really blow your mind.  Remember God making Adam?  He breathed the Spirit of Life (one of the seven Spirits, yes?) into the body made of red clay/dirt/dust, and made a living soul.  I'm sure all air-breathers were made alive the same way.  God invested Himself in all living, breathing beings, by way of the Breath/Spirit of Life.  Billions and billions of them. 

I am convinced that God is multi-layered and multi-dimensional.  Yet, those multiplicities are One.  :dsunny:

[ed]

I generally can fellowship with Christians on both sides of the fence.

Been in both groups.

Jesus is Lord on both groups.

:2c:

[RaiderGonzo]

I generally can fellowship with Christians on both sides of the fence.

Been in both groups.

Jesus is Lord on both groups.

:2c:

Well, I get along with whoever gets along with me too, but besides the respecting others beliefs and such, I'm interested in knowing from all of you if you are of the same belief concerning the person of God, or if there is differences of understating within Universalists?

[eaglesway]

There are different understandings among people who believe in the salvation of all. I will try to find and post a thread here tomoro sometime where you can look over different views held among folks on TM.

[Tom]

Maybe it has already been asked, but I dare ask myself from each of you on this site.  :dunno2:

Some are, and some aren't. I personally am not. That is a subject that has caused some tension here I think because folks have deep convictions about it. I don't mean to start any squabbling, but, since you asked, I think the Trinity is simply a doctrine established by the Roman Empire due to political expediency, but it dishonors the Father. I believe there is one God, the Father, who is the source of all, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all comes to us. I believe Christ was the word of God who came out of the Father and became flesh to walk among his chosen people, the Jews. The word God can be interpreted absolutely or relatively and means subjector or placer. So Christ can be said to be God relatively speaking because he is the word of God and the image of the invisible God, but he always honored the Father and said he came out of the Father. I believe the holy spirit is not a third person in a mythical godhead but the power of God that generated the Christ child in the virgin Mary, inspired the authors of scripture, and lives in us believers today. Many folks disagree with what I've said because even among those who believe in universal reconciliation there are some who are Trinitarians. This is my own personal perspective due to the way I interpret scripture.

[Tom]

"For even if so be that there are those being termed gods, whether in heaven or on earth, even as there are many gods and many lords, nevertheless for us there is one God, the Father, out of Whom all is, and we for Him, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through Whom all is, and we through Him." (1 Corinthians 8:5,6)

http://concordant.org/expohtml/GodAndChrist/index.html

[micah7:9]

The trinity is supposedly made up of 3 PERSONS, find in your Bible where the Holy Spirit or the Father is called a PERSON.
Num 23:19  God is not a man, that he should lie,...... :2c:

[eaglesway]

This thread takes a while to get going but there is a lot in there from various perspectives on the godhead doctrine.

http://tentmaker.org/forum/arguments-against-universal-salvation/re-here's-something-i-just-read/25/

[jbertonbounds]

"For even if so be that there are those being termed gods, whether in heaven or on earth, even as there are many gods and many lords, nevertheless for us there is one God, the Father, out of Whom all is, and we for Him, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through Whom all is, and we through Him." (1 Corinthians 8:5,6)

http://concordant.org/expohtml/GodAndChrist/index.html

Pretty cool scripture passage: ALL THINGS ARE OUT OF THE FATHER, AND ALL THINGS ARE THROUGH JESUS.
:Chinscratch:

[jbertonbounds]

THAT WOULD MAKE AN EXCELLENT NEW THREAD!

[dajomaco]

The same place I learned about Hell

is the same place where I learnt about the Trinity.

I am relearning everything allowing the Holy Spirit of God to teach.

[rosered]

This thread takes a while to get going but there is a lot in there from various perspectives on the godhead doctrine.

http://tentmaker.org/forum/arguments-against-universal-salvation/re-here's-something-i-just-read/25/

  Thank  you  John     :icon_flower: ,   I learned a lot  from everyone  on this long thread   , things never considered before  !!!!  I miss Molly being here    too    ..... :flowerred:

[eaglesway]

Yes, even tho we disagreed on the godhead discussion, I miss Molly too.

[RaiderGonzo]

Maybe it has already been asked, but I dare ask myself from each of you on this site.  :dunno2:

Some are, and some aren't. I personally am not. That is a subject that has caused some tension here I think because folks have deep convictions about it. I don't mean to start any squabbling, but, since you asked, I think the Trinity is simply a doctrine established by the Roman Empire due to political expediency, but it dishonors the Father. I believe there is one God, the Father, who is the source of all, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all comes to us. I believe Christ was the word of God who came out of the Father and became flesh to walk among his chosen people, the Jews. The word God can be interpreted absolutely or relatively and means subjector or placer. So Christ can be said to be God relatively speaking because he is the word of God and the image of the invisible God, but he always honored the Father and said he came out of the Father. I believe the holy spirit is not a third person in a mythical godhead but the power of God that generated the Christ child in the virgin Mary, inspired the authors of scripture, and lives in us believers today. Many folks disagree with what I've said because even among those who believe in universal reconciliation there are some who are Trinitarians. This is my own personal perspective due to the way I interpret scripture.

I take it that you don't believe Jesus Christ to be God in the absolute? Because if you, then under the understanding that I'm getting from your post, is that we end up with two forms of God, and two Lords? Yes, no?  :Chinscratch:

[micah7:9]

RaiderGonzo...... :Chinscratch:

[RaiderGonzo]

RaiderGonzo...... :Chinscratch:

Yes?

[eaglesway]

Many books of learned scholars have beaten this horse to death with no conclusion that suits everyone. On a forum like this our ability to address these issues is limited by space and the purpose of the forum, which is to proclaim and teach from the scriptures the salvation of all through Jesus Christ.

I would like to suggest again, that if you are really serious about getting various perspectives on it, and what various UR believers believe about the godhead issue- go to the thread I posted above where, if you will take the time, you will find MUCH food for thought and reach your own conclusions as well :o)

[Tom]

Then, when you're done reading that, read this.  http://concordant.org/expohtml/GodAndChrist/index.html

[RaiderGonzo]

Many books of learned scholars have beaten this horse to death with no conclusion that suits everyone. On a forum like this our ability to address these issues is limited by space and the purpose of the forum, which is to proclaim and teach from the scriptures the salvation of all through Jesus Christ.

I would like to suggest again, that if you are really serious about getting various perspectives on it, and what various UR believers believe about the godhead issue- go to the thread I posted above where, if you will take the time, you will find MUCH food for thought and reach your own conclusions as well :o)

Will do sir, thank you.

Frankly speaking, I don't know much about Universalists, so I do honestly seek answers to some theological questions; for I cannot simply trust in what Universalists say without knowing what it is they say, or where they stand on certain -for lack of a better term- issues.

[eaglesway]

I understand that,and you are wise not to just take anyones word on anything- but remember, the issues remain issues among us as Christ based, Bible based believrs in the salvation of all. We are not "Universalists in the sense that "anything goes". We disagree on many of the same issues other Christians disagree. Thing like "free-will" and "the Trinity" and "soul-sleep" etc, etc, etc. These "issues have been discussed and debated on the site and still are and will be.

What uniotes us is the SCRIPTURALLY BASED assurance that the sacrifice of Jesus Christ was sufficient to provide for the salvation of every being ever created- THROUGH THE BLOOD OF CHRIST"S CROSS ALONE, incorporating faith in His resurrection and Lordship.

We believe that the scriptures teach that "every knee shall bow , whether in heaven, on earth, or under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father- not to be cast into hell, but to eventually through the ages be subjected to Christ ubntil God is ALL IN ALL.

We may disagree on many of the other issues, because we have different perspectives and theological backgrounds. :o)

So you see, on some of these issues there is no simple answer as to what "we" believe. :o)

[RaiderGonzo]

I understand that,and you are wise not to just take anyones word on anything- but remember, the issues remain issues among us as Christ based, Bible based believrs in the salvation of all. We are not "Universalists in the sense that "anything goes". We disagree on many of the same issues other Christians disagree. Thing like "free-will" and "the Trinity" and "soul-sleep" etc, etc, etc. These "issues have been discussed and debated on the site and still are and will be.

What uniotes us is the SCRIPTURALLY BASED assurance that the sacrifice of Jesus Christ was sufficient to provide for the salvation of every being ever created- THROUGH THE BLOOD OF CHRIST"S CROSS ALONE, incorporating faith in His resurrection and Lordship.

We believe that the scriptures teach that "every knee shall bow , whether in heaven, on earth, or under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father- not to be cast into hell, but to eventually through the ages be subjected to Christ ubntil God is ALL IN ALL.

We may disagree on many of the other issues, because we have different perspectives and theological backgrounds. :o)

So you see, on some of these issues there is no simple answer as to what "we" believe. :o)

Yes, I see.

There was a question I have asked myself, others, and Christians as well, and that question has to do with -pardon my french- how in the hell is everyone going to have a fair shot during judgement day "if" they lived before Christ Jesus, or never really had a chance to grow up in a Christian country/environment, i.e, the Aztecs? The answer I believe the Lord has put in my mind and in my heart is the one you just gave, that THROUGH THE BLOOD OF CHRIST"S CROSS ALONE! Past, present and future, Amen!

[Tom]

I think you need to stop generalizing about what "universalists" believe. It's kind of like asking what Christians believe. From what I've seen there's been a wide variety of beliefs associated with Christianity throughout history, and the same is true for those you call "universalists" now. I just call myself a believer, and universal reconciliation just happens to be one of the things I believe because I think it is the truth of scripture.

"through Him to reconcile all to Him (making peace through the blood of His cross), through Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens" (Colossians 1:20)