Those familiar with George Orwell's apocalyptic book "1984" would know that it describes a time on earth when the world will totally loose its compass...where "war is peace", "Freedom is Slavery" and "Ignorance is Strength."
This has just happened...
I was totally gobsmacked to hear that US prez Obama received the Nobel PEACE prize...really? was it april the 1st already?
for a man who has started a new war in Pakistan...escalated the war in Afghanistan...threatening Iran when itself has 1000s of nuclear devices, causing death and destruction in Africa and South America through sponsoring its heineous sidekicks...still NOT closing Guantanamo...reatining the troops in Iraq...being the biggest exporter of death ie weapons to the world...sitting in silence as Israel massacre women and children...AND then denying all the proof provided by a world respected judge....sorry...WHO did he alctually make peace with? just name me ONE...just one
"From the least to the greatest,
all are greedy for gain;
prophets and priests alike,
all practice deceit.
14 They dress the wound of my people
as though it were not serious.
'Peace, peace,' they say,
when there is no peace.
15 Are they ashamed of their loathsome conduct?
No, they have no shame at all;
they do not even know how to blush.
So they will fall among the fallen;
they will be brought down when I punish them,"
says the LORD.
Jeremiah 6:13-15
Quote from: noname on October 12, 2009, 11:49:35 AM
Those familiar with George Orwell's apocalyptic book "1984" would know that it describes a time on earth when the world will totally loose its compass...where "war is peace", "Freedom is Slavery" and "Ignorance is Strength."
This has just happened...
I was totally gobsmacked to hear that US prez Obama received the Nobel PEACE prize...really? was it april the 1st already?
for a man who has started a new war in Pakistan...escalated the war in Afghanistan...threatening Iran when itself has 1000s of nuclear devices, causing death and destruction in Africa and South America through sponsoring its heineous sidekicks...still NOT closing Guantanamo...reatining the troops in Iraq...being the biggest exporter of death ie weapons to the world...sitting in silence as Israel massacre women and children...AND then denying all the proof provided by a world respected judge....sorry...WHO did he alctually make peace with? just name me ONE...just one
"From the least to the greatest,
all are greedy for gain;
prophets and priests alike,
all practice deceit.
14 They dress the wound of my people
as though it were not serious.
'Peace, peace,' they say,
when there is no peace.
15 Are they ashamed of their loathsome conduct?
No, they have no shame at all;
they do not even know how to blush.
So they will fall among the fallen;
they will be brought down when I punish them,"
says the LORD.
Jeremiah 6:13-15
Hi!
While I agree with your observation referring to George Orwell's book, you neglected to color in the details properly.
It reminds me of that familiar question which people utter with much consternation: "What on earth did you expect?".
This question can be taken literally as a comment to your Post here.
Indeed, what on earth did you expect?
The historical narrative of the Bible clearly show the events which occurred leading up to the 'domination system' which we are enduring in these days. Regrettably, this spirit killing device is to become increasingly harsh as the end draws near.
Just as there is the revealing of Jesus in the flesh in those who belong to Him, (sons of God), there also is the accompanying emergence of the anti-christ in those who are are his, (sons of perdition).
So, again: What on earth did you expect?
aw c'mon, noname. They are just trying to give you a little black humor for these end times.
And the double entendre is thrown in for free.
I actually laughed out loud.
Did you expect Obama to be able to save the whole world? To put out all the fires? I feel sorry for him, quite frankly - because he has inherited a huge mess and people expect him to fix the world and all its problems overnight. How would you do in the same position? Obama is just a man! How would you like to be in his shoes?
There's a song by Billy Joel that addresses the dilemma of the world... (and a whole web page dedicated to explaining the song)
http://www.teacheroz.com/fire.htm
CHORUS -
We didn't start the fire
It was always burning
Since the world's been turning
We didn't start the fire
No we didn't light it
But we tried to fight it
We didn't start the fire
But when we are gone
Will it still burn on, and on, and on, and on...
Not sure what that is all about--a bunch of disjointed images which make world history look like confusion and chaos.
Is that how they wish us to perceive history? Somebody does one thing, someone else another, totally unrelated, and we all fall down?
I don't wish for a president of the world. I would like to have a president of this country, this nation state--whose every action defends and upholds our Constitution--for a change. You know, that oath they are supposed to take on the Bible?
Try it, you might like it.
Does anyone know what he happened to get the prize for, since peace is only one of dozens of things you can get one for?? Scientists have gotten that prize and they sure as Hell weren't getting it for peace 'cept for perhaps the guy that had two of 'em, one related to Vitamin C.
Quote from: martincisneros on October 13, 2009, 04:47:35 AM
Does anyone know what he happened to get the prize for, since peace is only one of dozens of things you can get one for?? Scientists have gotten that prize and they sure as Hell weren't getting it for peace 'cept for perhaps the guy that had two of 'em, one related to Vitamin C.
The Nobel Peace Prize (Scandinavian languages: Nobels fredspris) is
one of the five Nobel Prizes bequeathed by the Swedish industrialist and inventor Alfred Nobel.
According to Nobel's will, the Peace Prize should be awarded to the person who:
" during the preceding year [...] shall have done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses.[1] " Alfred Nobel's will stated that the prize should be awarded by a committee of five people elected by the Norwegian Parliament.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_Peace_Prize
Quote from: martincisneros on October 13, 2009, 04:47:35 AM
Does anyone know what he happened to get the prize for, since peace is only one of dozens of things you can get one for?? Scientists have gotten that prize and they sure as Hell weren't getting it for peace 'cept for perhaps the guy that had two of 'em, one related to Vitamin C.
Martin,
Here is an article quoting some of Obama's own words about having been chosen for the award.
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE5981JK20091009
I really think it is very unwise to despise President Obama. I'm not saying that to you personally, Martin - just adding on my closing remarks in this thread.
Those who say that they are in the light but hate other believers are still in the dark. - John 2:9
Anne
"Despise" is kind of a loaded word, isn't it?
He has a job to do. He should do it.
Quote from: noname on October 12, 2009, 11:49:35 AM
I was totally gobsmacked to hear that US prez Obama received the Nobel PEACE prize...really? was it april the 1st already?
He's also nominated for sportsman of the year because he sometimes talks about sports. Next year he will recieve Nobel prize for medical science.
The whole Nobel prize is nothing more than a political farce since arrafat recieved that price. And even before that.
Just look at the list and many didn't deserve it. Al Gore :JCThink:
They should just wait with that price until there is a really worthy candidate. That likely means a price once every 15 years.
Quote from: martincisneros on October 13, 2009, 04:47:35 AM
Does anyone know what he happened to get the prize for, since peace is only one of dozens of things you can get one for?? Scientists have gotten that prize and they sure as Hell weren't getting it for peace 'cept for perhaps the guy that had two of 'em, one related to Vitamin C.
Peace talks according to my newspaper.
Personally I think he should be nominated for the smoke and mirrors award because his war tactics are the same as that of GW Bush. Whoops that peaceful man was also nominated for the highly prestigious peace price.
Maybe because they both used Nobel's dynamite?
Quote from: WhiteWings on October 13, 2009, 09:19:52 AMMaby because they both used Nobel's dynamite?
roflol -- One of Nobel's best customers!! -- I needed that laugh with the yo-yo emotions I've had this year.
A different perspective on Obama receiving a Peace Prize...........
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bernardhenri-levy/no-doubt-obama-deserves-t_b_317910.html
Anne, what a load of bull!
"When the president of the United States reaches out to moderate Muslims and tells them that America is their ally not their enemy, it's more than just words. It's an event, a historical event that clearly goes in the direction of peace."
telling people one thing and doing another...hey muslim, you're my buddy...but then you destroy his home, kill his wife and children...send the rest of his family into exile from their own country...and if anyone dares to defend themselves, their families and their country from a monsterous overwhelming wave of death and destruction (provided by Mr. Peace)...they are called "terrorists"..."insurgents"...and their country is called a "rogue state"
WAKE UP!! are you really SO blind that you cannot see?
and here's the clincher (headline in the same article you quote)
Obama Authorizes 13,000 More Troops For Afghanistan War
hello???!!! Mr. Peace?
Noname,
So then you are saying that Obama is all powerful and holds the keys to stop the war that Bush rushed into? Just by clicking his heels and saying: 'There's no place like home..."
I'm sure it is much more complicated than that and you should thank God you are not in his shoes. Obama is not the enemy. Satan is the enemy.
Anne
Quote from: Raggedy Anne on October 13, 2009, 11:40:23 AM
Obama is not the enemy. Satan is the enemy.
But all this time I've been told that Obama
was Satan! :bigGrin: :laughing7:
Quote from: Raggedy Anne on October 13, 2009, 11:40:23 AM
Noname,
So then you are saying that Obama is all powerful and holds the keys to stop the war that Bush rushed into? Just by clicking his heels and saying: 'There's no place like home..."
I'm sure it is much more complicated than that and you should thank God you are not in his shoes. Obama is not the enemy. Satan is the enemy.
Anne
first I'd like to know which of the many wars you are referring to?
but yes...he CAN stop them ALL...just pack your bags and GO...just STOP killing people...
where's the "change" he's been talking about? does "change" means making the situation worse than it was?
Yes, I DO thank God I'm not in his shoes...I still have a soul...
if you haven't figured out yet that Obama is in Satan's army, then you never will...
Jesus said that a man would be judged by his works...Obama's works are pure evil...murder by numbers...and those who support him will have to one day endure the same fate...have you not learned this from the example of biblical Israel?
Quote from: noname on October 12, 2009, 11:49:35 AM
Those familiar with George Orwell's apocalyptic book "1984" would know that it describes a time on earth when the world will totally loose its compass...where "war is peace", "Freedom is Slavery" and "Ignorance is Strength."
This has just happened...
I was totally gobsmacked to hear that US prez Obama received the Nobel PEACE prize...really? was it april the 1st already?
for a man who has started a new war in Pakistan...escalated the war in Afghanistan...threatening Iran when itself has 1000s of nuclear devices, causing death and destruction in Africa and South America through sponsoring its heineous sidekicks...still NOT closing Guantanamo...reatining the troops in Iraq...being the biggest exporter of death ie weapons to the world...sitting in silence as Israel massacre women and children...AND then denying all the proof provided by a world respected judge....sorry...WHO did he alctually make peace with? just name me ONE...just one
"From the least to the greatest,
all are greedy for gain;
prophets and priests alike,
all practice deceit.
14 They dress the wound of my people
as though it were not serious.
'Peace, peace,' they say,
when there is no peace.
15 Are they ashamed of their loathsome conduct?
No, they have no shame at all;
they do not even know how to blush.
So they will fall among the fallen;
they will be brought down when I punish them,"
says the LORD.
Jeremiah 6:13-15
George Orwell was a smart man...
Quote
first I'd like to know which of the many wars you are referring to?
but yes...he CAN stop them ALL...just pack your bags and GO...just STOP killing people...
where's the "change" he's been talking about? does "change" means making the situation worse than it was?
Yes, I DO thank God I'm not in his shoes...I still have a soul...
if you haven't figured out yet that Obama is in Satan's army, then you never will...
Jesus said that a man would be judged by his works...Obama's works are pure evil...murder by numbers...and those who support him will have to one day endure the same fate...have you not learned this from the example of biblical Israel?
I think you are under a delusion. Your anger is not helping you. As I mentioned before, Bush is the man who took us into these wars we are currently quaqmired in.
And these decisions have consequences. According to my bible, there will be a WAR to end all WARS called Armageddon. Jesus warned us that there would be wars and rumors of wars and told us what the end would be like, then asked if he would find faith on the earth when he returned. You are going to have to deal with that anger burning inside you. Things are not going to get better. You can pretend everything is Obama's fault, or you can look and see that when you point your finger at any man there are three fingers pointing back at you. Uninformed Americans just finished celebrating 'Columbus' Day, most of them completely ignorant to the atrocities carried out by those early explorers who came from Europe. Perhaps our 'America' is still being punished for all the buckets of blood we have spilled in such a short time already.
Anne
Quote from: Raggedy Anne on October 15, 2009, 08:30:57 AM
I think you are under a delusion. Your anger is not helping you. As I mentioned before, Bush is the man who took us into these wars we are currently quaqmired in.
Sure you can't just pull out armies. Sure Bush started a lot of trouble.
But I don't see Obama doing much/anything to fix it besides a friendly speech of hollow words.
What I see is Obama depoying more troops or just transfering them from one place to another.
I know an Texan tha works in a military plane factory. 6 days a week and extended shifts. Doesn't sound like lesseing war efforts. Also compare Iran and Iraq. Suddenly Iraq had WMDs. Then slowly Iraq got a worse name day by day. Currently the same is happening with Iran. For me Obama is nothing better than Bush. The only difference is that Bush was likly more in the pockets of the defence contractors and Obama in the banking pockets.
:2c:
Quote from: Raggedy Anne on October 15, 2009, 08:30:57 AM
Quote
first I'd like to know which of the many wars you are referring to?
but yes...he CAN stop them ALL...just pack your bags and GO...just STOP killing people...
where's the "change" he's been talking about? does "change" means making the situation worse than it was?
Yes, I DO thank God I'm not in his shoes...I still have a soul...
if you haven't figured out yet that Obama is in Satan's army, then you never will...
Jesus said that a man would be judged by his works...Obama's works are pure evil...murder by numbers...and those who support him will have to one day endure the same fate...have you not learned this from the example of biblical Israel?
I think you are under a delusion. Your anger is not helping you. As I mentioned before, Bush is the man who took us into these wars we are currently quaqmired in.
And these decisions have consequences. According to my bible, there will be a WAR to end all WARS called Armageddon. Jesus warned us that there would be wars and rumors of wars and told us what the end would be like, then asked if he would find faith on the earth when he returned. You are going to have to deal with that anger burning inside you. Things are not going to get better. You can pretend everything is Obama's fault, or you can look and see that when you point your finger at any man there are three fingers pointing back at you. Uninformed Americans just finished celebrating 'Columbus' Day, most of them completely ignorant to the atrocities carried out by those early explorers who came from Europe. Perhaps our 'America' is still being punished for all the buckets of blood we have spilled in such a short time already.
Anne
Did Bush start the war in Pakistan? no, Obama did
Did Bush increase troops in Afghanistan? no, Obama did
I could go on and on with comparisons...
Anne, the reason why I'm angry is because people are dying while your goverment is fighting its "just" wars...and then the sickos are nominated and receiving Nobel peace prizes (Bush was nominated and Obama actually got it)
It makes me angry because I know that the Prince of Peace does not operate like these monsters...and they are trodding on His Holy name
it makes me angry because if I take the lessons from history, I know that in the end no matter how strong an empire thinks it is, it is always brought its knees...it is judged the same way as it judges other people...it makes me angry to know that millions of innocent Americans and Europeans would one day be judged by their own sword...you speak of Armageddon, what if Armageddon is on YOUR doorstep? would you see things differently then? what if it is your children being sniped, blown to bits, bombed with depleted uranium, phosphorous burning their skins...would you feel different then?
I'm just totally dumbfounded some days by people proclaiming to have the "love of Jesus" and "living in the spirit"...yet being so blase about the suffering of humanity
QuoteI'm just totally dumbfounded some days by people proclaiming to have the "love of Jesus" and "living in the spirit"...yet being so blase about the suffering of humanity
Most of us are not, noname. Obama was elected to stop the war as was the democratic congress before him. We seem to have a 'runaway' government at the moment which is no longer listening to the people. Have you seen their approval ratings? Congress is somewhere in the 20th percentile and Obama is dropping like a rock. Unfortunately, our system is not set up for quick fixes, but the American people are at the end of their rope. Look at the anger at the town halls and somewhere around a million of them showed up in Washington a few weekends ago. This is not a normal occurrence for middle class America. Don't think that these policies are being carried out with the approval of all Americans.
Quite frankly, I'm not even sure our votes are being counted anymore since the introduction of black box voting machines--which are actually probably illegal under our own law.
One thing the President can do especialy since we are in an economy heading into a depression and since Israel is in violation of
so many UN resolutions that they can't be counted anymore, the president can quit voting to veto every UN resolution that the UN puts on Israel.
Now there is the International rules that are being violated by Israel and their squatters who build settlements, Obama
has asked that they stop building these settlements and Israel just spit in Obamas face and keeps right on building settlements! OK then, the USA sends Israel billions of tax payer dollars every year to this Israel in aid, now Obama has a good open reason to quit signing and sending these checks to Israel, and he has the political power and authority to deny Israel one thin dime of American workers tax payer money and help our wounded and suffering economy, hundreds of families losing homes every month, the homeless numbers into the thousands, no jobs and a corrupt monetary and banking system instead of sending it overseas to those who spit in his face and also butchers their nieghboring countries children because God told them to.
Peace,
Fire Walker
firewalker,
I so hope this for your people and for the rest of the world...but I don't think its going to happen...Obama himself is ignoring the Goldstone report and backing Israel...
Quote from: fire walker on October 22, 2009, 09:40:15 AM
One thing the President can do especialy since we are in an economy heading into a depression and since Israel is in violation of
so many UN resolutions that they can't be counted anymore, the president can quit voting to veto every UN resolution that the UN puts on Israel.
.....
OK then, the USA sends Israel billions of tax payer dollars every year to this Israel in aid,
That will cost even more lives and US taxpaying dollars.
If Israel falls the whole Middle East will be ablaze. Guess what that will do with the oil price. That would mean even more job loss.
Plus I think Israel can't be invaded. They fight to the last man. And will use nuclear weapons on large scale. After that there is noting left to invade. Basicly WW3.
Quotenow Obama has a good open reason to quit signing and sending these checks to Israel, and he has the political power and authority
I really doubt he has that power.
:cloud9: I think a lot of people either don't read the OT, or conveniently forget God's promises and covenants with the people of the Book, were FOREVER. We were grafted in to the olive tree, we did not replace it, as many would like to think. There is really only one covenant, the "second" is a spiritual fulfilling of the "first". How Christians can claim to be Abraham's seed and disallow God's plans for the Jews, astounds me. This is why we are told not to glory against the olive tree we were grafted INTO.
There is NO higher authority than God, the governments of this world are as specks of dust, and I would not want to be in any army that invades what He has given the Jews, as they are in the position now as the woman coming to OUR table who gained favor by stating the dogs (term for uncircumcised, which now that there is a spiritual circumcision in place, is what they are), eat the crumbs.
He had mercy on us when we were gentiles/uncircumcised, and to not show them the same mercy while the tables are turned, is grave error, IMO. He will still bless those who bless Israel. It's probably the only reason this country has been allowed to stand as long as it has, slaughtering a million plus innocents (babies in the womb) worse than Herod ever thought about, for DECADES.
It will surprise me if we are not turned over to a foreign national for judgment of the flesh, just as He did Israel, as He is no respecter of persons and we as a nation have lost our way just as they did. I don't expect anyone to agree with me, and that's ok, I'm not stating this for argument fodder, just stating my opinion. My :2c: Blessings....
Quote from: Cardinal on October 22, 2009, 06:51:42 PM
:cloud9: I think a lot of people either don't read the OT, or conveniently forget God's promises and covenants with the people of the Book, were FOREVER. We were grafted in to the olive tree, we did not replace it, as many would like to think. There is really only one covenant, the "second" is a spiritual fulfilling of the "first". How Christians can claim to be Abraham's seed and disallow God's plans for the Jews, astounds me. This is why we are told not to glory against the olive tree we were grafted INTO.
There is NO higher authority than God, the governments of this world are as specks of dust, and I would not want to be in any army that invades what He has given the Jews, as they are in the position now as the woman coming to OUR table who gained favor by stating the dogs (term for uncircumcised, which now that there is a spiritual circumcision in place is what they are), eat the crumbs.
He had mercy on us when we were gentiles/uncircumcised, and to not show them the same mercy while the tables are turned, is grave error, IMO. He will still bless who bless Israel. It's probably the only reason this country has been allowed to stand as long as it has, slaughtering a million plus innocents (babies in the womb) worse than Herod ever thought about, for DECADES.
It will surprise me if we are not turned over to a foreign national for judgment of the flesh, just as He did Israel, as He is no respecter of persons and we as a nation have lost our way just as they did. I don't expect anyone to agree with me, and that's ok, I'm not stating this for argument fodder, just stating my opinion. My :2c: Blessings....
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
yes and in this picture are also people like Goldstone and Mordicia Vanunu who are Jews that should NOT be silienced by Israel especialy and then followed by the rest of the world. Every time any of the Jewish people speak out against the political policies of the Israelie government
they are discounted, discredited and in some cases imprisoned like Vanunu was or killed like Jewish PM Rabin was, it was not a muslim by the way that killed him, this deed was done by another Jew, more than likely a political hit man though that point was never discussed at the time as the subject was silienced as soon as possible by Israel, this same flesh Israel that makes the lying claim that Jews don't kill Jews. This is like John Hagee claiming that christian churches don't pursecute other christian churhes even though it is clear that they have done it and still do, like the Catholics and Protestants did in Ireland, go to church on Sunday and then start fire bombing one another again come early Monday .
It does indeed look more and more like an Orwells 1984 self fullfilling Prophesy around the world as time moves along.
Peace,
Fire Walker
:cloud9: Granted Orwell may have had an unrealized prophetic gift in him that was largely veiled by the flesh he never submitted fully to the Spirit, but he still was no prophet of God and His Word as interpreted by His Spirit, is still the only authority of what will, and will not happen in this world, so I only look to Him/It. My :2c: Blessings....
Quote from: Cardinal on October 22, 2009, 08:47:06 PM
:cloud9: Granted Orwell may have had an unrealized prophetic gift in him that was largely veiled by the flesh he never submitted fully to the Spirit, but he still was no prophet of God and His Word as interpreted by His Spirit, is still the only authority of what will, and will not happen in this world, so I only look to Him/It. My :2c: Blessings....
Why do you say that about Orwell? He was a believing Christian, and if you look at his background combined with the uncanny accuracy of his prophecies, it is a virtual certainty that he was not "prophesying," he was whistleblowing. He was revealing plans that were already in the works, and that he himself had seen and heard people talk about.
His last book,
1984, was his final gift to the world, as he wrote it while dying of TB.
God Bless you, Eric Arthur Blair.
:cloud9: Molly, I think what I said is closer to what you said, than you realize.....
the blind are blind
the dumb are dumb
the deaf are deaf
the lame are lame
WE ARE FREE
I agree with FireWalker. The man-made, false and corrupt Nation of Israel is still killing her own. This is what happens when a Nation is convinced it is ordained by "god". Sad, methinks. :sigh:
I agree with Raggedy Anne we should not despise Pres. Obama and that he and his family should be in our prayers. (Yes, I prayed for Pres Bush and Clinton too and no, I didn't vote for Clinton, Bush nor Obama) :winkgrin:
I also agree with Molly on George Orwell – Wait, did I say I agree with Molly? (he-he) :mshock: Just messin' with ya, sis. :bigGrin: I really do though. :thumbsup: :HeartThrob:
Israel needs not concern itself with Babylon and vice-versa.
Quote from: Cardinal on October 23, 2009, 01:59:57 AM
:cloud9: Molly, I think what I said is closer to what you said, than you realize.....
well, it confused me because what you said made it sound like Orwell somehow fell short--"largely veiled by the flesh, not a prophet of God." Whereas I see Orwell as doing exactly what he set out to do, that is, show the world what a small group had planned for them decades in advance. Orwell is as relevant today as he was 60 years ago, maybe more so. I see men like Orwell being raised up by God to educate, warn, and instruct. He is showing us what the future will most certainly be--what it already is since we are now the future he described--if we do not repent.
People seem to think 'history' just happens, that we all trip and fall and stumble into wars and systems. It doesn't just happen. It is designed years in advance behind the scenes, which would make all of us prophets if we would just pay attention. But, the best made plans of mice and men can falter...because the Spirit of God moving in a people who became aware and awake can change the course of history as it is intended by the small group who think they have already written the ending.
In the truest sense of the word, then, that makes Orwell a prophet of God, athough I doubt he would ever claim that title for himself. He had the courage to show us the future and was given the grace to do it.
9Jesus answered, "Are there not twelve hours of daylight? A man who walks by day will not stumble, for he sees by this world's light. 10It is when he walks by night that he stumbles, for he has no light."
--John 11
the well dwelleth within
He brings with it peace
Please,
Don't lean on your own understanding.
Learn from the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on October 23, 2009, 05:18:51 AM
Please,
Don't lean on your own understanding.
Learn from the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Yes, I do. And to those he sends.
34Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers.---Mat 23
Quote from: jfraysse on October 23, 2009, 04:57:08 AM
I agree with FireWalker. The man-made, false and corrupt Nation of Israel is still killing her own. This is what happens when a Nation is convinced it is ordained by "god". Sad, methinks. :sigh:
:cloud9: Hi John.........good to see you back in these parts......... :thumbsup:
I don't think they're any better or any worse than any other State government run by man, but I think it's a stretch to say they are man-made (as if others could not also be under that definition). To me, God allowed it to happen in 1948 so that the nation of Israel could be included (as they should be) in the Kingdoms of this world that are to become the kingdoms of our God and His Christ, in the generation that I believe is soon to see that.
In addition to that, there are literally THOUSANDS of hidden Jews being awakened to the fact they are of Jewish descent, out of multitudes of countries you would not think of as having Jews, like Mexico, the Carribean, Puerto Rico, and many, many others, most of which had no idea they were, because it was hidden from them by well-meaning family members, passed down from generation to generation as a "secret", until one died early or forgot, ect.
There are so many in fact, there is a professor doing a research study on the possibility of "genetic memory", as a way to try to explain away a phenomenon that is clearly IMO only something the Spirit of God could do, and certainly ties in with what He said He would do, as does the RE-formation of Israel at this time in history. My :2c: Blessings....
Quote from: Cardinal on October 23, 2009, 05:39:25 AM
...phenomenon that is clearly IMO only something the Spirit of God could do, and certainly ties in with what He said He would do, as does the RE-formation of Israel at this time in history. My :2c: Blessings....
Agreed Card.
-------
Interesting thoughts on Orwell.
Quote from: jfraysse on October 23, 2009, 04:57:08 AM
I agree with Raggedy Anne we should not despise Pres. Obama and that he and his family should be in our prayers. (Yes, I prayed for Pres Bush and Clinton too and no, I didn't vote for Clinton, Bush nor Obama) :winkgrin:
ditto.
Quote from: Cardinal on October 23, 2009, 05:39:25 AM
In addition to that, there are literally THOUSANDS of hidden Jews being awakened to the fact they are of Jewish descent, out of multitudes of countries you would not think of as having Jews, like Mexico, the Carribean, Puerto Rico, and many, many others, most of which had no idea they were, because it was hidden from them by well-meaning family members, passed down from generation to generation as a "secret", until one died early or forgot, ect.
Card,
being Jerwish does NOT give you ANY special priviledge regarding salvation...if Jews do not accept their King who has already come, they are no better off than any other "gentile" or other israelite (which was "lost" into the nations)...
we should also remember Jesus' prophetic words regarding the fig tree...the fig tree have always being representative of the Jews...He compared the non-believing Jews to that of a fig tree that will bear many leaves but NEVER again any fruit...
:cloud9: Hi; obviously they have to accept their King, but they are "special" in that HE has kept His part of the covenant, and HE is bringing them in, in these the last days of the last "day", just as He said He would, and they are the olive tree we were grafted into. And salvation is of the Jews, ie. it came thru them. God is not "done" with Israel nor the Jews, and never has been, IMO. If He was, THEN, He'd be a respecter of persons.
So I agree to a point. It is Rachel He loves, and not Leah, and for the last 7 years/days what He has done has been suffering thru Leah (those of dim vision that could not perceive Him), but it was done because of His love for Rachel (those who do), and those of the Jews are no different. Blessings....
:cloud9: Ironically, someone sent me this in an email today. I had never considered the thought before reading this, that acceptance of Israel's right to the land, by parallel application, denotes belief and acceptance that the God of the Bible IS God and as such has the right to bless as He chooses. Apparently, at one point, the largest church in Lebanon, agreed with this as a given. Blessings....
Treaty between the Jewish Agency for Palestine and the Maronite Church
What are the implications of the creation of a minority Jewish state on identity politics in Lebanon?
May 30th 1946
"We, the undersigned:
1. His Beatitude Antoine Arida, the Maronite Patriarch of Lebanon, acting on behalf of the Church and the Maronite community, the largest community in the Lebanese Republic with citizens residing in other countries, represented by Cheikh Toufic Aoud, ex-minister by virtue of authorization addressed to the President of the Jewish Agency, Professor Weizmann on May 24th 1946,which hereinafter shall be in this treaty addressed as "first party".
2. Dr. Bernard Joseph, acting on behalf of the Jewish Agency for Palestine which is known in International Law as the representative of Jewish people around the world aimed at creating the Jewish National Home in Palestine,which hereinafter shall be in this treaty addressed as "first party".
ART.1: The first party expressly and fully recognizes the historical link uniting the Jewish people to Palestine, the Jewish people's aspirations in Palestine, and the Jewish people right to a free immigration and independence in Palestine. It also declares its approval on the Jewish agency's declared current political program including the establishment of a Jewish state.
ART.2: The second party expressly and fully recognizes the independence of Lebanon and the right of its inhabitants to choose the regime they deem as appropriate. The second party also declares that its extending and widening program does not include Lebanon. On the contrary, it respects the state of Lebanon in its current form and borders. The Jewish immigration does not include Lebanon.
ART.3: The two parties commit themselves reciprocally to abstain from undermining their respective aspirations and status; the so-called commitment has a binding obligation restraining the representatives of both parties - officials and non officials - in the country, abroad, in international conferences whether occidental or oriental, from expressing any kind of support to decisions or actions that may harm the other party. Also do their utmost to avoid taking such decisions or undertaking such actions.
ART.4: The two parties commit themselves to provide mutual help at the following levels: political, commercial, security and social in order to promote the position of the first party and realize the aspirations of the second one. This engagement includes:
a) Raise the awareness of public opinion in the Orient and the Occident on the cause of each party, according to the spirit of the treaty hereby.
b) Concert their efforts to open the doors of each country with view to deepen cultural and social rights and promote commercial trades and the exchange of liaison officers to forge good neighboring relationships between one another.
c) The first party recognizes the right of every Jewish to immigrate to Palestine commits itself to help as much as possible in the realization of this immigration in the event that it shall pass through Lebanon.
d) The second party commits itself, after the creation of the Jewish state, to respect the sacred character of the holy sites in Palestine and commits itself as well after retaining the command of power to consider the treaty hereby as an integral part of the government program.
e) The two parties commit themselves to provide help, if requested, to one another in order to maintain security in their respective countries. This engagement has the binding obligation to take all necessary measures to block the entrance or exit of hostile elements capable of sowing public disorder and the obligation to refrain from providing any kind of help for such elements.
f) The two parties commit themselves to exchange information on all issues such as the politics of their countries, their economy, security, and relations with third parties.
g)At the industry, agriculture and scientific research levels, the two parties commit themselves to exchange information and advice in order to synchronize the Lebanese and Jewish efforts with a view to ensure the best development of their respective industries (including the tourism sector), agriculture and research on the basis of mutual cooperation.
h)After creating the Jewish state, the second party commits itself to reserve a friendly treatment to the representatives of the Maronite Patriarch, to facilitate the buying of a land and the construction of a Patriarchate worthy of the Maronite community.
i)The second party commits itself to require from its offices all over the world to support the cause of the first party and back its representatives in Washington, London, and Paris and in international conferences.
ART.5: In order to achieve the afore-mentioned obligations, and additional practical means of collaboration and mutual aid, the two parties will hold direct or indirect (through representatives) talks depending on the relevant advancement and circumstances. The first party has already chosen Cheikh Toufic Aouad to be its authorized representative till further notice.
ART.6: The treaty hereby takes effect upon signature. Each party has the right to terminate it within six months notice.
In witness whereof the two parties have signed this treaty."
Double original copy, Jerusalem, May 30th 1946.
On behalf of His Beatitude His Grace Antoine Pierre Arida, Toufic Aouad
On behalf of the Jewish Agency for Palestine, Bernard Joseph
Dearest Cardinal: You are, of course, entitled to you opinion and I accept it, Sis. It is also what most Orthodox Christians believe about the Nation of Israel and I'm not certain that you (or they) are wrong. :dontknow:
However, I see the events of 1948 differently as per my recent comments. I think it is possible that the Modern Day Nation of Israel is simply a man-made attempt to help "god" fulfill a "Prophecy".
I have many Jewish friends here in the states. They also agree that the Nation of Israel does not qualify as God's Gathering of the Jewish People. When Nations, including the US, assume that they are implements of divine justice or destiny, the world seems to suffer. We enable (unwittingly?) self-fulfilling prophecies concerning "wars and rumors of wars". It all makes me heart-sick. :sigh:
To me, Prophecy is a distraction. Even when Jesus spoke of "future events" he ultimately taught that no one knew for sure and that we should be "Ever Ready", that is, busy about Our Father's Business. My plate is Full, or should be, with this endeavor yet, on occasions, I refuse to recognize it and get bogged down in discussions such as this. Sorry! :mblush:
In His Love, John :HeartThrob:
If one is really serious about restoring to the 'Jews' the land granted to Abraham by God, it includes a vast area of the middle east from Egypt to Iraq, including Jordan, Syria, Palestine, and Lebanon, even part of Saudi Arabia, that land between the Nile and the Euphrates rivers. Look at a map.
Unfortunately for the Jews, most of this area is currently occupied by Arab muslims, who also trace their lineage from Abraham.
So we have to ask ourselves, what did God really mean when he granted this land to Abraham? Did he mean it literally? And, who did he intend to inherit it? If God chooses to give it to someone, should they wait for God to grant it to them or should they take it by force?
I'm not saying I know the answers to those questions. In fact, I am certain that I am missing something important. But, I do know that a lot of what is going on in current day history is a distraction from the real agenda of man, and the real agenda does not favor mankind. When God says to Abram, '...go to the land I will show you,' I see this as a spiritual place. Yet, when it is translated into the natural, the result is war, suffering, and chaos.
18In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:'
--Gen 15
As is often the case, I believe it is both literal and spiritual in nature. However, I don't believe man in his own efforts will fix it. I believe the King of Kings and Lord of Lords will correct it, as part of His reconciliation of everything, in, above, and below the earth. I'm looking for a Kingdom, whose builder and Maker is God. Again (spiritual - kingdom within) and literal (God being All in All). My :2c:.
If it's (also) literal we can guestimate the 2nd coming pretty accurately.
There should be (false) peace first. When I check the Israel section in the daily news I don't think time is at hand yet....
Quote from: jabcat on October 23, 2009, 09:56:07 PM
As is often the case, I believe it is both literal and spiritual in nature. However, I don't believe man in his own efforts will fix it. I believe the King of Kings and Lord of Lords will correct it, as part of His reconciliation of everything, in, above, and below the earth. I'm looking for a Kingdom, whose builder and Maker is God. Again (spiritual - kingdom within) and literal (God being All in All). My :2c:.
7And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
8And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.--Gen 17
This is an everlasting covenant. Everlasting is that word, Olam. Can you tell me again how Tentmaker views this word? Does it mean forever?
"everlasting"H5769
עלם עולם
‛ôlâm ‛ôlâm
o-lawm', o-lawm'
From H5956;
properly concealed, that is, the vanishing point; generally time out of mind (past or future), that is, (practically) eternity; frequentative adverbially (especially with prepositional prefix) always: - always (-s), ancient (time), any more, continuance, eternal, (for, [n-]) ever (-lasting, -more, of old), lasting, long (time), (of) old (time), perpetual, at any time, (beginning of the) world (+ without end). Compare H5331, H5703.
H5956
עלם
‛âlamaw-lam'
A primitive root;
to veil from sight, that is, conceal (literally or figuratively): - X any ways,
blind, dissembler, hide (self), secret (thing).Could you take a look at this pdf file which was dumped in my lap and let me know where or how his reasoning might be right or wrong? Also, Cardinal, could you take a look at this for me?
It's quite possible the whole world has been blinded. It wouldn't be the first time.
http://www.christianzionism.org/BibleSays/Sizer04.pdf
Obama Poised to Cede US Sovereignty,
Obama Poised to Cede US Sovereignty, Claims British Lord
Fightin' Words
October 15, 2009
The Minnesota Free Market Institute hosted an event at Bethel University in St. Paul on Wednesday evening. Keynote speaker Lord Christopher Monckton, former science adviser to British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, gave a scathing and lengthy presentation, complete with detailed charts, graphs, facts, and figures which culminated in the utter decimation of both the pop culture concept of global warming and the credible threat of any significant anthropomorphic climate change.
A detailed summary of Monckton's presentation will be available here once compiled. However, a segment of his remarks justify immediate publication. If credible, the concern Monckton speaks to may well prove the single most important issue facing the American nation, bigger than health care, bigger than cap and trade, and worth every citizen's focused attention.
Here were Monckton's closing remarks, as dictated from my audio recording:
At [the 2009 United Nations Climate Change Conference in] Copenhagen, this December, weeks away, a treaty will be signed. Your president will sign it. Most of the third world countries will sign it, because they think they're going to get money out of it. Most of the left-wing regime from the European Union will rubber stamp it. Virtually nobody won't sign it.
I read that treaty. And what it says is this, that a world government is going to be created. The word "government" actually appears as the first of three purposes of the new entity. The second purpose is the transfer of wealth from the countries of the West to third world countries, in satisfication of what is called, coyly, "climate debt" – because we've been burning CO2 and they haven't. We've been screwing up the climate and they haven't. And the third purpose of this new entity, this government, is enforcement.
How many of you think that the word "election" or "democracy" or "vote" or "ballot" occurs anywhere in the 200 pages of that treaty? Quite right, it doesn't appear once. So, at last, the communists who piled out of the Berlin Wall and into the environmental movement, who took over Greenpeace so that my friends who funded it left within a year, because [the communists] captured it – Now the apotheosis as at hand. They are about to impose a communist world government on the world. You have a president who has very strong sympathies with that point of view. He's going to sign it. He'll sign anything. He's a Nobel Peace Prize [winner]; of course he'll sign it.
[laughter]
And the trouble is this; if that treaty is signed, if your Constitution says that it takes precedence over your Constitution (sic), and you can't resign from that treaty unless you get agreement from all the other state parties – And because you'll be the biggest paying country, they're not going to let you out of it.
So, thank you, America. You were the beacon of freedom to the world. It is a privilege merely to stand on this soil of freedom while it is still free. But, in the next few weeks, unless you stop it, your president will sign your freedom, your democracy, and your humanity away forever. And neither you nor any subsequent government you may elect will have any power whatsoever to take it back. That is how serious it is. I've read the treaty. I've seen this stuff about [world] government and climate debt and enforcement. They are going to do this to you whether you like it or not.
But I think it is here, here in your great nation, which I so love and I so admire – it is here that perhaps, at this eleventh hour, at the fifty-ninth minute and fifty-ninth second, you will rise up and you will stop your president from signing that dreadful treaty, that purposeless treaty. For there is no problem with climate and, even if there were, an economic treaty does nothing to [help] it.
So I end by saying to you the words that Winston Churchill addressed to your president in the darkest hour before the dawn of freedom in the Second World War. He quoted from your great poet Longfellow:
Sail on, O Ship of State!
Sail on, O Union, strong and great!
Humanity with all its fears,
With all the hopes of future years,
Is hanging breathless on thy fate!
http://www.intheav.com/blogs/Sovereignty%20Soldier/2009/10/16/obama-poised-to-cede-us-sovereignty
Sad post Mol, I want to look at it more closely. I will also look at your link in the prior post. Got something going on off the boards right now. Later, Thanks.
Quote from: Molly on October 23, 2009, 11:08:39 PM
7And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
8And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
--Gen 17
This is an everlasting covenant. Everlasting is that word, Olam. Can you tell me again how Tentmaker views this word? Does it mean forever?
Could you take a look at this pdf file which was dumped in my lap and let me know where or how his reasoning might be right or wrong? Also, Cardinal, could you take a look at this for me?
It's quite possible the whole world has been blinded. It wouldn't be the first time.
http://www.christianzionism.org/BibleSays/Sizer04.pdf
My feeble attempt at defining 'olam', is that it has to do with an age, a period of time - others may give you better info.
As far as the article;
This was an interesting statement, worth more thought;
"Jesus redefines the boundaries of the kingdom of God to embrace the whole world."
And that "....through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. (Ephesians. 3:4-6)"
Also, that "The Kingdom which Jesus heralded is therefore now internal not territorial." I'm still not sure that's only catching 1 out of the 2 - one spiritual, the other still literal. You know, too many times an 'either/or' rather than acknowledging "2 sides of the same coin", so to speak. I'm thinking though.... :eyebrow:
:cloud9: Molly; no can do. It froze up my computer for some reason........
QuoteI'm thinking though....
Thanks. If Olam means an age, isn't that age over? Salvation is of the Jews, now we have our salvation. don't we? Jesus instructs the Apostles to leave Jerusalem, not to stay there--to preach the gospel to the world, even to the ends of the earth. He never says and then return and set up a secular state here, does he? These Apostles are Jews who follow Jesus, and are fully participating in the New Covenant, aren't they? The New Covenant is the continuation of the promise to Abraham, isn't it? The only difference between the Covenants is that it is now fulfilled in Jesus.
Hebrews 8:13
By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.
Thoughts, not comprehensive conclusions.
If Olam means an age, isn't that age over? Thought about that - generally, I'd say yes.
Salvation is of the Jews, now we have our salvation. don't we? Yes - grafted in, and to not boast against the tree - or that we may not be spared, just as they weren't! Still, "...when the fullness of the Gentiles is come in, then all Israel will be saved".
Jesus instructs the Apostles to leave Jerusalem, not to stay there--to preach the gospel to the world, even to the ends of the earth. He never says and then return and set up a secular state here, does he? No - but that was 2,000 years ago, and the apostles wouldn't be alive today, or 50 years from now, or 100 years from now, or... He probably didn't say everything to them that there was to know, or that would occur. So there's been much more said throughout scripture. (Want to pull a few things out and start our own denomination? I'll lead the music. :Sparkletooth: ) But seriously, what else has been said in scripture that may pertain to this situation? Too much for me to know or be able to reference.
These Apostles are Jews who follow Jesus, and are fully participating in the New Covenant, aren't they? Mmmm, maybe not at the time He said that to them. That was prior to the cross, and (arguably?) in a different age. Not sure if/or what that affects in this discussion, but somehow it may be relevant. But when they believed after the cross and resurrection, YES!
The New Covenant is the continuation of the promise to Abraham, isn't it? I think so.
The only difference between the Covenants is that it is now fulfilled in Jesus. I'd certainly say that's the main difference, not sure it's the ONLY one. Though I can't put a finger on it completely right now, seems there must be related nuances.
Hebrews 8:13
By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.
I tend to think that is specifically addressing Law vs. grace, but I'm sure there's more to it than that.
I won't say anything you said isn't true. I'm just not sure how concisely some of the plans of God can be boiled down. I'm afraid when we say "I'm a cessationist, or I'm pre-post-a-millineum, or I'm a preterist, or dispensationalist", that we're almost always leaving out some truth.
Still thinking :laughing7:.
Quote from: Cardinal on October 24, 2009, 06:18:28 AM
:cloud9: Molly; no can do. It froze up my computer for some reason........
Card, without looking back at it, basically it's an article arguing that the promises to Israel were fulfilled in totality in the OT, including that Israel possessed all the land they were promised, and that national Israel has no special standing (or that I gathered) any special promises left other than what exists for Christians in general.
Add any bullet points to that, Mol. Also, I said, "I'm afraid when we say "I'm a cessationist, or I'm pre-post-a-millineum, or I'm a preterist, or dispensationalist", that we're almost always leaving out some truth."
For the record, never, ever heard you do that Molly, I'm just saying that to make a point...I think there are some REALLY big, complicated things in there, the deeper we dig. Sometimes I end up feeling like I know so very little (don't anyone say anything :laughing7: ).
Alex Jone's new movie is out.
Fall of the Republic
Warning: might contain truth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8LPNRI_6T8
Gonna download it.
Quote from: jabcat on October 24, 2009, 06:47:57 AM
I won't say anything you said isn't true. I'm just not sure how concisely some of the plans of God can be boiled down. I'm afraid when we say "I'm a cessationist, or I'm pre-post-a-millineum, or I'm a preterist, or dispensationalist", that we're almost always leaving out some truth.
:cloud9: Jab, I'm the same way, if anything, maybe more so. It's like a "wall" comes up and my eyes glaze over when anyone starts throwing the "ists" and the "isms" around. My Spirit just won't let me ride any of those donkeys, and until I hear one of them speak to me :winkgrin:....... My :2c: Blessings....
Mr. Obama keeps calling our Constitution a 'charter.'
"charter"
1. a document, issued by a sovereign or state, outlining the conditions under which a corporation, colony, city, or other corporate body is organized, and defining its rights and privileges.
2. (often initial capital letter) a document defining the formal organization of a corporate body; constitution: the Charter of the United Nations.
3. authorization from a central or parent organization to establish a new branch, chapter, etc.
4. a grant by a sovereign power creating a corporation, as the royal charters granted to British colonies in America.
5. Also called charter party. a contract by which part or all of a ship is leased for a voyage or a stated time.
6. a tour, vacation, or trip by charter arrangement: The travel agency is offering charters to Europe and the Caribbean.
7. special privilege or immunity.
Someone should remind Mr Obama that no matter how many ways he wishes to slice and dice it, our Constitution is and remains and shall remain the law of this sovereign nation. The Bill of Rights is not a temporary license granted to us by some corporation or by his office. It is recognized by our founders as our inalienable rights granted to us by God himself.
The Constitution of the United States of America is the supreme law of the United States. It is the foundation and source of the legal authority underlying the existence of the United States of America and the federal government of the United States. It provides the framework for the organization of the United States government and for the relationship of the federal government to the states, to citizens, and to all people within the United States.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Us_constitution
Quote from: Molly on October 24, 2009, 08:01:27 AM
Alex Jone's new movie is out.
Fall of the Republic
Warning: might contain truth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8LPNRI_6T8
just watched it...sieg heil amerika! or not...? its up to you take back your country from satan's cabal
Quote from: noname on October 25, 2009, 03:45:37 PM
Quote from: Molly on October 24, 2009, 08:01:27 AM
Alex Jone's new movie is out.
Fall of the Republic
Warning: might contain truth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8LPNRI_6T8
just watched it...sieg heil amerika! or not...? its up to you take back your country from satan's cabal
Pray for us...
Quote from: Molly on October 25, 2009, 03:48:35 PM
Quote from: noname on October 25, 2009, 03:45:37 PM
Quote from: Molly on October 24, 2009, 08:01:27 AM
Alex Jone's new movie is out.
Fall of the Republic
Warning: might contain truth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8LPNRI_6T8
just watched it...sieg heil amerika! or not...? its up to you take back your country from satan's cabal
Pray for us...
I do...and for God to open all our eyes...and may He bring peace to us in these times of hardships
There's trouble!...in river city!
With a capital T and that rhymes with P and that stands for Pandemic.
Now all the recent pandemic laws, including quarantine, could kick in....also known as 'emergency powers'
Obama declares national emergency as US swine flu deaths hit 1,000
Emergency rules will make it easier to handle anticipated surge in patients
Saturday 24 October 2009 20.56 BST
President Barack Obama has declared a national emergency in America as swine flu deaths reached 1,000. In Britain, meanwhile, 122 people have died and cases of swine flu have more than doubled in the past seven days.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/oct/24/swine-flu-barack-obama
H1N1 Swine Flu a National Emergency: What Does It Mean?
This is the first time Obama has declared a national emergency and the first time that a president has declared such an emergency explicitly because of a public health crisis like a virus since the presidential power of emergency was created in 1976.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/SwineFluNews/h1n1-swine-flu-emergency/Story?id=8913231&page=2
Oct. 21, 2009
Swine Flu Cases Overestimated?
CBS News Exclusive: Study Of State Results Finds H1N1 Not As Prevalent As Feared
CBS) If you've been diagnosed "probable" or "presumed" 2009 H1N1 or "swine flu" in recent months, you may be surprised to know this: odds are you didn't have H1N1 flu.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/10/21/cbsnews_investigates/main5404829.shtml
Regular flu has killed thousands since January
updated 6:58 p.m. EDT, Tue April 28, 2009
(CNN) -- There had been no confirmed deaths in the United States related to swine flu as of Tuesday afternoon. But another virus had killed thousands of people since January and is expected to keep killing hundreds of people every week for the rest of the year.
That one? The regular flu.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/04/28/regular.flu/index.html
Interesting info, Molly. Thanks.
Quote from: Molly on October 26, 2009, 07:45:57 PM
There's trouble!...in river city!
With a capital T and that rhymes with P and that stands for Pandemic.
Now all the recent pandemic laws, including quarantine, could kick in....also known as 'emergency powers'
so you guys over there are dropping like flies are you...is it worse than the black plague for mr. peace to declare this emergency?
is it worse than bombs/phosphorous dropping from the sky or cities being levelled? is it worse than being sniped by drones? is it? :mshock:
OK, I've decided to move the Global Climate warming discussion over here because this is as close to 1984 as it gets.
Until now, this discussion has revolved around computer models, and as we all know, you can make a computer model say anything you want it to say--or as someone pointed out long ago, there are three types of lies, 'ies, damn lies, and statistics.' The computer model is what comes up when you google MIT and global warming, but the computer model is just what it is, a computer model--and like all models, is subject to garbage in/garbage out effects.
Now we have an actual climatologist looking at REAL DATA, and his data has blown the computer model right out of the water. I would encourage everyone to pay attention to this because those who would push the lie of global warming are doing it for strictly political reasons which at worst would destroy our national sovereignty in favor of a world government [yes it is called a government in the Copenhagen treaty] with an actual enforcement arm. The global warming scam as it stands is all about a redistribution of wealth and a reorganization of the world--- it has nothing to do with science. I would encourage everyone to study the real science coming from Richard Lindzen et al, look at the data, look at the graphs and try to understand them, because we no longer have the luxury of being ignorant about such things. These people who want to change our world mean business.
And NO my name is not Alice. Although Alice sounds like she might be a friend lol--should I ever have the pleasure to meet her.
Carbon Dioxide irrelevant in climate debate says MIT Scientist
August 18, 7:39 AMPortland Civil Rights ExaminerDianna Cotter
In a study sure to ruffle the feathers of the Global Warming cabal, Professor Richard Lindzen of MIT has published a paper which proves that IPCC models are overstating by 6 times, the relevance of CO2 in Earth's Atmosphere. Dr. Lindzen has found that heat is radiated out in to space at a far higher rate than any modeling system to date can account for.
Editorial: The science is in. the scare is out. Recent papers and data give a complete picture of why the UN is wrong.
The pdf file located at the link above from the Science and Public Policy Institute has absolutely, convincingly, and irrefutably proven the theory of Anthropogenic Global Warming to be completely false.
Professor Richard Lindzen of MIT's peer reviewed work states "we now know that the effect of CO2 on temperature is small, we know why it is small, and we know that it is having very little effect on the climate."
The global surface temperature record, which we update and publish
every month, has shown no statistically-significant "global warming"
for almost 15 years. Statistically-significant global cooling has now
persisted for very nearly eight years. Even a strong el Nino – expected
in the coming months – will be unlikely to reverse the cooling trend.
More significantly, the ARGO bathythermographs deployed
throughout the world's oceans since 2003 show that the top 400
fathoms of the oceans, where it is agreed between all parties that at
least 80% of all heat caused by manmade "global warming" must
accumulate, have been cooling over the past six years. That now prolonged
ocean cooling is fatal to the "official" theory that "global
warming" will happen on anything other than a minute scale.
- SPPI Monthly CO2 Report: July 2009
If for no other reason than this: the IPCC assumes that the concentration of CO2 in 2100 will be 836 ppmv (parts per million volume). However, current graphs based on real data show that CO2 concentrations will only be 570 ppmv in 2100, cutting the IPCC's estimates in half right there.
Another nail in the coffin of Global Warming is the observed rate of temperature change from 1980, which is observed to be 1.5 degrees C per century. The IPCC modeling calls for a range of 2.4 to 5.3 degree increase per century, which is far above what is observed in real data collected between 1980 and 2009. The graph below clearly represents a far different reality as opposed to the predictions.
Graph A
Not only is the IPCC basing its predictions on data that has been doubled from observed data, it is overstating the role of CO2 in Climate altogether. As the graph seen below shows, when charted for the years between 2002 and 2009, that solid red median line is going down, indicating global cooling.
Graph B
As significant as the above results are, it is not the Pièce de résistance. What is - the curious minded what to know? It is the ERBE results. The Earth Radiation Budget Experiment with 15 years worth of data. The ERBE result is absolutely devastating to the entire Global Warming Theory.
The following graph (Graph C) shows the ERBE results in the upper left hand corner, which is real recorded data, not a computer model. The 11 other graphs are the results from the models used by the UN and everyone else which state that more radiation should be held within Earth's system, thereby causing warming of the climate. More simply put, the UN results illogically predict that as the oceans got warmer, the earth would simply hold more heat. The UN explains that it is CO2 which is holding this extra energy. This theory is not supportable by the simple fact that CO2 cannot hold that much heat, it is a very poor greenhouse gas compared with water. If anything, more clouds -water vapor- would conceivably hold the extra heat, but the corresponding rise in global temperatures this would cause have not been observed. This leaves only one conclusion, the Earth is radiating the extra heat into space, and this is supported by the data.
The ERBE results, which are factual data from real measurements made by satellite, show the exact opposite result from the UN/IPCC Projections (computer models which are not real data). As seas warm on earth, the earth releases more heat into space and the satellite results prove it.
Graph C
Observed reality vs. erroneous computer predictions:
The mismatch between reality and prediction is entirely clear. It is this
astonishing graph that provides the final evidence that the UN has
absurdly exaggerated the effect not only of CO2 but of all greenhouse
gases on global mean surface temperature. - Lindzen & Choi (2009).
For the sake of making the above graphs clear in their meanings, the term ?SST stands for Change in Sea Surface Temperature measured in Kelvin (A unit of temperature like to Celsius and Fahrenheit), and is a measurement of change in sea temperatures. A -1.0 number would indicate cooling, a zero reflects no temperature change, and a +1.0 would indicate an increase in temperature.
?Flux, The Vertical line in these graphs, measures the change in the amount of radiation released by the planet in the infra-red spectrum, heat in other words. From zero to +6 shows more heat radiated out into space. From zero to -6 shows less heat being radiated into space.
0 change in ?SST equals 0 change in ?Flux or no change. Less infra-red heat radiation going out into space should correlate to cooler sea surface temperatures, as there is less heat available to radiate out. More heat radiating out appears when sea surface temperature increases have occurred and more heat is available to radiate. Heat is radiated out into space as seas warm, and this overall maintains a climate equilibrium, This is proven by the ERBE graph in Graph C above as well as the other graphs presented in this article, which are based on observed data, not computer models.
Graph D
The 3300 Argo bathythermograph buoys deployed throughout the world's oceans since late in 2003 have shown a slight cooling of the oceans over the past five years, directly contrary to the official theory that any "global warming" not showing in the atmosphere would definitely show up in the first 400 fathoms of the world's oceans, where at least 80% of any surplus heat would be stored. Source: ARGO project, June 2009.
All of this data leads to the conclusion that the UN/IPCC models are not only wrong, they are so far off the mark as to be laughable. The satellite and bathythermograph data clearly do not match the IPCC theory, which means that the theory is incorrect.
What this data does tell us is if CO2 concentration should double, global temperatures will not rise by the devastating 6 degrees F the UN predicts, but by a completely harmless 1 degree F. The ERBE data shows an Earth system that is radiating more heat into space as sea surfaces warm, in other words a system at equilibrium, and is clearly demonstrated by observed data. The UN theory of Anthropogenic Global Warming is dead wrong.
The UN/IPCC have been using models that give a result that allow them to tell Nation States they must reduce and cap Carbon Emissions or the earth's climate will warm by a devastating 6 degrees F. When in reality, more heat is simply radiated out into space as the ERBE OBSERVED DATA (Not a computer model) PROVES.
The United States House of Representatives has passed a Carbon tax (Cap and Trade) as have other governments in Europe, based on these completely erroneous models.
There are only a couple of conclusions to be made of this. Either the world has been misled by scientists working for the UN and IPCC due to faulty science, or faulty science has been deliberately used in a global scheme to generate tax revenues for the Governments instituting Cap and Trade Taxation policies.
Either way, the world has been the victim of some very bad science. The results of which can be seen in drastically reduced GDP in countries with the Cap and Trade laws in place, as well a a 5 - 10% decrease in standard of living for those citizens living there (Taxing Carbon designed to fail.), all with little or no effect on emissions globally.
Perhaps this will finally end the attempt by the Obama Administration as well as congress to tax a substance that trees need to survive, the very air we exhale thousands of times a day.
Thank you Professor Richard Lindzen, Dr. Ferenc M. Miskolczi, Dr. Miklós Zágoni, Dr. Mike Fox here in Oregon, and a great many other Scientists the world over, who decided to look at facts, instead of playing with models. Science is based on data, facts not theories. They took the facts, and let the theory write itself. The IPCC took theories and tried to cherry pick only the details that fit, and in the end failed to do even that.
Public policies should also be based on facts, not on unproven and in the end disproven theories. The United States and indeed the world is in the debt of these and other scientists, who relied on data and facts to describe our world and its climate! We are in their debt!
http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-7715-Portland-Civil-Rights-Examiner~y2009m8d18-Carbon-Dioxide-irrelevant-in-climate-debate-says-MIT-Scientist
The real climate change catastrophe
In a startling new book, Christopher Booker reveals how a handful of scientists, who have pushed flawed theories on global warming for decades, now threaten to take us back to the Dark Ages
By Christopher Booker
Published: 7:00AM GMT 25 Oct 2009
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/6425269/The-real-climate-change-catastrophe.html
Al Gore's camp made some big mistakes. (maybe no mistake but just lies)
They were forced to admit their hockeystick model is wrong by any scientific standard.
Mistakes can happen. (but weird not to tripple check the core of your public campaign)
What bothers me is that the model still pops up in many new GW news items.
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 09, 2009, 09:22:36 AM
Al Gore's camp made some big mistakes. (maybe no mistake but just lies)
They were forced to admit their hockeystick model is wrong by any scientific standard.
Mistakes can happen. (but weird not to tripple check the core of your public campaign)
What bothers me is that the model still pops up in many new GW news items.
I don't see them admitting it, and I doubt that they will. They have a different agenda than truth or science, so why not just keep plodding away at their agenda, knowing full well they can fool some of the people all of the time? To admit it would be to give up on their world government and their hope of turning the western nations into gulags.
Quote from: Molly on November 09, 2009, 09:40:19 AM
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 09, 2009, 09:22:36 AM
Al Gore's camp made some big mistakes. (maybe no mistake but just lies)
They were forced to admit their hockeystick model is wrong by any scientific standard.
Mistakes can happen. (but weird not to tripple check the core of your public campaign)
What bothers me is that the model still pops up in many new GW news items.
I don't see them admitting it, and I doubt that they will. They have a different agenda than truth or science, so why not just keep plodding away at their agenda, knowing full well they can fool some of the people all of the time? To admit it would be to give up on their world government and their hope of turning the western nations into gulags.
It was quite a while ago. More than a year. The so called hockeystick model was created by two young (read unexperienced) over eager scientists. Their excuse what something along that line. It wasn't mainstream news. Just something in a scientic journal/article IIRC. So not by the PR drones.
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 09, 2009, 10:15:00 AM
Quote from: Molly on November 09, 2009, 09:40:19 AM
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 09, 2009, 09:22:36 AM
Al Gore's camp made some big mistakes. (maybe no mistake but just lies)
They were forced to admit their hockeystick model is wrong by any scientific standard.
Mistakes can happen. (but weird not to tripple check the core of your public campaign)
What bothers me is that the model still pops up in many new GW news items.
I don't see them admitting it, and I doubt that they will. They have a different agenda than truth or science, so why not just keep plodding away at their agenda, knowing full well they can fool some of the people all of the time? To admit it would be to give up on their world government and their hope of turning the western nations into gulags.
It was quite a while ago. More than a year. The so called hockeystick model was created by two young (read unexperienced) over eager scientists. Their excuse what something along that line. It wasn't mainstream news. Just something in a scientic journal/article IIRC. So not by the PR drones.
But not before it became the centerpiece of algore's 'award winning' movie [as mentioned in the article above] which, although I never intend to be made stupider by watching, I'm sure has influenced a lot of people who would never believe in a million years that scientists would lie.
Award winning things attrack much more attention than things hidden in the bottom drawer. So it's not that odd it came afterwards. But it should be removed from Al's speeches and further updated award winning vids.
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 09, 2009, 10:35:26 AM
Award winning things attrack much more attention than things hidden in the bottom drawer. So it's not that odd it came afterwards. But it should be removed from Al's speeches and further updated award winning vids.
The day algore stands before the world and repudiates his own work and tells the world, "every single scientific claim in [my] film was either wildly exaggerated or wrong," is the day I will believe the man has any hope for redemption or that his theories about anything are worth more than a plug nickel.
Obama sends a chilling message to MIT scientists on global warming--you will be marginalized if you are critical of our global warming legislation..What does he mean by that exactly? Made fun of? Lose funding? Fired?
Obama hits out at climate 'naysayers'
| Oct. 23, 2009
Posted on Saturday, October 24, 2009 12:49:10 AM by Free ThinkerNY
US President Barack Obama on Friday hit out at naysayers he blamed for peddling "cynical" claims that global warming is a myth to derail a landmark climate change bill in Congress.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2369824/posts?page=51
What's 'the overwhelming scientific evidence' for global warming, Mr. Obama? [ But, that's a cynical question because I know you have none.]
QuoteObama sends a chilling message to MIT scientists on global warming--you will be marginalized if you are critical of our global warming legislation..What does he mean by that exactly? Made fun of? Lose funding? Fired?
All of it I think. And for many that will mean fired.
If a scientist is made fun of then funding goes elsewhere. Obviously one would like to spend the $ on the best possible team of scientists. And if funding dries up then it's not uncommon the team will be reduced in size...
Anyway this doesn't come to me as a suprise. It's for a reason Gore is on Obama's team....
Quote"There are those who will suggest that moving toward clean energy will destroy our economy," Obama said, a day after the release of a poll showing fewer Americans see solid evidence of global warming.
I think it will hurt some a lot. But it will transform the economy.
I'm no believer in the man caused GW. Neither am I a Green Peace fundi. But do think it's good to take good care of the enviorment. An added, but not insignificant bonus, would be reduced threats of wars over resources.
Quote from: wwAn added, but not insignificant bonus, would be reduced threats of wars over resources.
That would be nice, except I don't see any indication that we are fighting over resources now. For instance, we are sitting on some of the biggest oil and natural gas reserves in the world that we refuse to drill. So are we fighting over oil in the middle east as many think?
Peak oil is another one of their scams, btw.
So I think you need to rework your model of why anyone is fighting at all.
The wars started before the oil was discovered and the technology to get it out of the ground (in a cost effective way) wasn't mature yet.
Plus there is something as strategic reserves.
Imagine the USA being the only army with oil in a future war. I don't think I don't have to tell you an army without oil is lost.
But I'm also aware that the oil companies don't want to let go of their cash cow. Unless they are the ones making equal money on clean energy.
And defense contractors aren't in the market for peace either.
So yes, sadly, (the threat of) war is big business for some. That that 'some' are not willing to give up their $ empire.
Little hope greed will stop....
Goldman Sachs - banks do "God's work"
LONDON (Reuters) - The chief executive of Goldman Sachs, which has attracted widespread media attention over the size of its staff bonuses, believes banks serve a social purpose and are doing "God's work."
In an interview with London's Sunday Times newspaper, Lloyd Blankfein also said he believed big profits and bonuses at banks were a sign that the world economy was recovering.
"We help companies to grow by helping them to raise capital. Companies that grow create wealth. This, in turn, allows people to have jobs that create more growth and more wealth. We have a social purpose," he told the paper.
The dominant Wall Street bank posted third-quarter earnings of $3 billion (1.8 billion pounds) and plans to hand out more than $20 billion in year-end bonuses.
Blankfein told the Sunday Times that the bank's compensation practices correlated with long-term performance.
"Others made no money and still paid large bonuses. Some are not around anymore. I wonder why?"
He added that he understood, however, that people were angry with bankers' actions: "I know I could slit my wrists and people would cheer."
(Reporting by Victoria Bryan; Editing by Greg Mahlich)
Quote from: Molly
But not before it became the centerpiece of algore's 'award winning' movie [as mentioned in the article above] which, although I never intend to be made stupider by watching, I'm sure has influenced a lot of people who would never believe in a million years that scientists would lie.
You've never watched the movie that you vehemently criticize? Why am I not surprised? You freely accuse Al Gore of being a liar. Now who is it that is the "accuser of the brethren" according to the scriptures? I'm pretty sure Al Gore believes the ideas he presents in the film which you have never bothered watching. If a man in good faith believes what he is saying, then it is wrong to label him as a liar. You state that you are worried about taxes being raised. Don't the scriptures tell us not to fret over money or how we will be clothed and fed - to trust God for these things?
Anne
Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 09, 2009, 01:54:52 PM
I'm pretty sure Al Gore believes the ideas he presents in the film which you have never bothered watching.
I really doubt he does Anne. First of all he doesn't live like someone who really cares for the climate. I never had big trust in politician but ok I give Gore the benefit of the doubt that he believed what he said during the time he presented the GW movie. But after that a lot of debate started about the claims of that movie. Lot's of it seems/is false or exagerated. And if Gore doesn't change his story after that then he's a liar. Reading the strong words of Obama I fear he hasn't a desire to figure out the true cause of the change in climate.
I did watch the Al's movie and the Global warming swindle. I did read articles from both camps. I did read discussion were they tried to refute each others arguments. For now my conclusion is that man made GW is a hoax or unproved at best.
QuoteYou state that you are worried about taxes being raised. Don't the scriptures tell us not to fret over money or how we will be clothed and fed - to trust God for these things?
I'm concerned about taxes too. Nauthy me :winkgrin: You are not but maybe you are worried what they are going to do with those taxes. Where I live we are equally lied to. And pay taxes for all kind of lies. Well, if those taxes are used for something good like help for say old needing people then I have peace with it.
But when it's used to fund some war.... well I'm sure you understand me.
And I leave it up to you if you also are worried what your tax $ will be used for.
Quote from: WW
I'm concerned about taxes too. Nauthy me winkgrin You are not but maybe you are worried what they are going to do with those taxes. Where I live we are equally lied to. And pay taxes for all kind of lies. Well, if those taxes are used for something good like help for say old needing people then I have peace with it. But when it's used to fund some war.... well I'm sure you understand me.
And I leave it up to you if you also are worried what your tax $ will be used for.
I cannot now, nor have people ever been able to control that which their taxes are spent on. There is both good and bad things done with taxes, which is as it has always been. For example, I'm glad we have roads to travel on and I don't have to walk through forest and desert to get to the next state. And I'm glad we spend taxes to pay for police, fire dept., library, water treatment, and public health - those are good uses for 'the commons', for the 'general welfare and domestic tranquility'. However, it grieves me that our taxes are used to make weapons and kill people around the globe. And that is by far the biggest expenditure our government now and has since WWII used our tax dollars for. We are a global Empire - a military industrial complex - a killing machine. And I know that this evil is beyond my control. God is allowing it for now. So I don't have any illusion that I can fix the world through politics - neither on the war spending front, nor the climate change, which I do believe is real and man made, not necessarily intentionally man-made, but the result of all the building and expanding we have done resulting in all the pollutants we have dumped into the atmosphere. The world is turning into a desert. The rain forests truly have been destroyed for profit. The land has been over-mined. We have polluted the earth. Have you read Isaiah Chapter 24 lately?
Peace -
Anne
Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 09, 2009, 06:08:38 PMI cannot now, nor have people ever been able to control that which their taxes are spent on.
I don't like it but have to agree.
QuoteThere is both good and bad things done with taxes, which is as it has always been. For example, I'm glad we have roads to travel on and I don't have to walk through forest and desert to get to the next state. And I'm glad we spend taxes to pay for police, fire dept., library, water treatment, and public health - those are good uses for 'the commons', for the 'general welfare and domestic tranquility'.
All good examples I'm prepared to pay for.
QuoteHowever, it grieves me that our taxes are used to make weapons and kill people around the globe. And that is by far the biggest expenditure our government now and has since WWII used our tax dollars for.
Exactly. And what do you think the eco-tax will be spend on? Personally I think manmade GW is a hoax. But ok Obama claims he has proof I'm wrong. The big question is now; what he is going to to with his eco-tax-dollars? Fund military research for a bigger gun? Or use it for finding green energy? Even if I think GW is a hoax I could agree with funding "green research".
QuoteThe world is turning into a desert.
The schrinking Sahara - click link (http://bittooth.blogspot.com/2009/07/shrinking-sahara.html)
QuoteThe rain forests truly have been destroyed for profit. The land has been over-mined. We have polluted the earth. Have you read Isaiah Chapter 24 lately?
I assume you are pointing at this verse?
Isaiah 24:1 Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.
The Hebrew word for earth also means land (as in country). Or perhaps only/most often it means land. You can cjeck my claim, if you wish, in YLT
Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 09, 2009, 01:54:52 PM
Quote from: Molly
But not before it became the centerpiece of algore's 'award winning' movie [as mentioned in the article above] which, although I never intend to be made stupider by watching, I'm sure has influenced a lot of people who would never believe in a million years that scientists would lie.
You've never watched the movie that you vehemently criticize? Why am I not surprised? You freely accuse Al Gore of being a liar. Now who is it that is the "accuser of the brethren" according to the scriptures? I'm pretty sure Al Gore believes the ideas he presents in the film which you have never bothered watching. If a man in good faith believes what he is saying, then it is wrong to label him as a liar. You state that you are worried about taxes being raised. Don't the scriptures tell us not to fret over money or how we will be clothed and fed - to trust God for these things?
Anne
Hi Anne, thanks for commenting on this subject. It is a really important subject for all of us to look into deeply. First, algore is not my brethren in any sense of the word. Second, the only reason that I would watch propaganda which I know already is propaganda is if I have to for some reason, otherwise, it is a waste of my time, and, quite frankly, painful, as are all lies.
Ephesians 5:11
Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.I have seen enough of algore to discern his methods and his motives, and that is all I need to know. I watched him try to tell the senate that the science on global warming was 'settled.' He was practically laughed out of the place. But, soon, we won't have the freedom to laugh at science wannabees who are trying to control policy by presenting lies as fact.
I hope you don't see this as any kind of political issue between us, since I do not have much sympathy for either the repubs or dems, a pox on both their houses. We need people in Congress who will represent us, not parties. We are basically a one party system now anyways.
As for taxes, with the global warming legislation, we are talking about taxes of 2 percent of our GDP being sent to other countries to pay our 'climate debt.' That's for starters. Since we have already pretty much destroyed our industrial base with nafta, cafta, and nationalization, there is very little left to play games with, and business is what has made this nation strong. You may have noticed that unemployment is currently over 10 percent. It's really much higher because they play games with those numbers, too. Under this legislation, there will also be Czars who will regulate what windows you must have, how many lightbulbs you can use for how many hours, and how much electricity and heat you can use, how far you can drive and for what reason, there will be energy police who will come into your house and slap you with fines, prevent you from selling your property until you have complied, on and on---this is just another piece of legislation that is a communist power grab--just like the healthcare bill. As the article above stated, it is "the most expensive economic suicide note ever written."
I know what the agenda is for these people, and it is, as I said, to turn the western countries into gulags. So, I have your interest at heart as much as my own with my attempts to 'expose them.'
Molly,
I truly don't think God has called you or any one to take on the principalities and powers of this world with our own power.
And I think the way you used Ephesians 5:11 out of context if you are implying that it means you should think to overthrow worldly governments by railing against them. I could just as easily give you the scripture about submitting to those in authority and praying for those whom God has placed in power. But many Christians generally only pay attention to that scripture if they happen to approve of who is in power. Yet even in the Old Testament there are many examples of God's people submitting to evil rulers who were in authority and thereby bringing about a blessing to people.
Ephesians Chapter 5
1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.
18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;
21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
Quote from: AnneI truly don't think God has called you or any one to take on the principalities and powers of this world with our own power.
It truly doesn't matter to me what you think about me, or what any person thinks about me.
I take my marching orders from one authority only.
Therefore, I will continue to do what I do until He puts me somewhere else to do something else.
I should say that I personally would benefit economically from Obama's green policies--there are a few who will benefit economically and I am one of them. So, I should just shut up and go along, if my desire were for myself.
I should also say that, in a political sense, in a governmental sense, my only authority is the Constitution of the United States--no man, no party, no group. That is the way our country was set up by our Founders. So, if you want to submit to authority, submit to that, the only legitimate authority in this country.
I am not sure where I read this but Global warming tactics has made Al Gore filthy Rich, from 2 million to almost 200 million.
This global warming seems to me to be a farce, God is in control of weather as always.
This is an opportune time where the rich get richer.
Quote from: Molly on November 09, 2009, 07:56:13 PM
Quote from: AnneI truly don't think God has called you or any one to take on the principalities and powers of this world with our own power.
It truly doesn't matter to me what you think about me, or what any person thinks about me.
I take my marching orders from one authority only.
Therefore, I will continue to do what I do until He puts me somewhere else to do something else.
I should say that I personally would benefit economically from Obama's green policies--there are a few who will benefit economically and I am one of them. So, I should just shut up and go along, if my desire were for myself.
I should also say that, in a political sense, in a governmental sense, my only authority is the Constitution of the United States--no man, no party, no group. That is the way our country was set up by our Founders. So, if you want to submit to authority, submit to that, the only legitimate authority in this country.
Molly,
This is not an American board. It is a global place where people come from many nations. Now why do you think that Christians from other nations would be interested in hearing Americans rail about their leaders? I don't think they come to Tentmaker for that purpose. Nationalism ought not take precedence over our true allegiance which is to Jesus Christ and his Kingdom which is a spiritual kingdom, not of this world. While in this world, we have many troubles and it has always been so. That is why wait to inherit that far country that Abraham saw. I think you have to keep worldly politics and religion separate in order to be obedient to both.
Anne
Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 09, 2009, 08:33:07 PM
Quote from: Molly on November 09, 2009, 07:56:13 PM
Quote from: AnneI truly don't think God has called you or any one to take on the principalities and powers of this world with our own power.
It truly doesn't matter to me what you think about me, or what any person thinks about me.
I take my marching orders from one authority only.
Therefore, I will continue to do what I do until He puts me somewhere else to do something else.
I should say that I personally would benefit economically from Obama's green policies--there are a few who will benefit economically and I am one of them. So, I should just shut up and go along, if my desire were for myself.
I should also say that, in a political sense, in a governmental sense, my only authority is the Constitution of the United States--no man, no party, no group. That is the way our country was set up by our Founders. So, if you want to submit to authority, submit to that, the only legitimate authority in this country.
Molly,
This is not an American board. It is a global place where people come from many nations. Now why do you think that Christians from other nations would be interested in hearing Americans rail about their leaders? I don't think they come to Tentmaker for that purpose. Nationalism ought not take precedence over our true allegiance which is to Jesus Christ and his Kingdom which is a spiritual kingdom, not of this world. While in this world, we have many troubles and it has always been so. That is why wait to inherit that far country that Abraham saw. I think you have to keep worldly politics and religion separate in order to be obedient to both.
Anne
So far, the only person besides yourself who has expressed a spoken interest in this subject is from another country. That would be ww. This is not only a national concern, although that is the place where we all would fight it, in our own countries, and the only weapon we have to fight with is the truth. This is part of their last bid to set up a world government, as predicted in the Bible. Have you looked at the Copenhagen treaty? Do you even know what it is? Do you understand how they need this phoney global warming science to push their agenda in Copenhagen?
But, our Lord is bringing his kingdom to this earth, and, as such, all his saints will take part in it-- on this earth.
44 "In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever.--Daniel 2
Quote
So far, the only person besides yourself who has expressed a spoken interest in this subject is from another country. That would be ww. This is not only a national concern, although that is the place where we all would fight it, in our own countries, and the only weapon we have to fight with is the truth. This is part of their last bid to set up a world government, as predicted in the Bible. Have you looked at the Copenhagen treaty? Do you even know what it is? Do you understand how they need this phoney global warming science to push their agenda in Copenhagen?
But, our Lord is bringing his kingdom to this earth, and, as such, all his saints will take part in it-- on this earth.
44 "In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever.
--Daniel 2
Molly,
Well, yes, I have noticed that there is not much interest in the discussion which is why I wondered why you kept bringing it up in various threads on other topics. No, I've not looked at the Copenhagen Treaty. And no, I'm not fighting a flesh and blood war against a NWO. Destruction is coming on the kingdoms of this world - on that we agree. But I don't think we need to fret about it and I don't think God needs me to help him destroy the kingdoms of this world, nor to try to stop it. Anyhow, do whatever you want. Just thought I'd get my thoughts out in the open. I'm not a Dominion type believer who believes that we are to take over the earth. That kind of stuff is for the Pat Robertson types of this world and I do not listen to the theology of such men.
Anne
Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 09, 2009, 09:45:35 PMI don't think God needs me to help him destroy the kingdoms of this world, nor to try to stop it.
I think God is very capable of handling things. As He showed in the OT. But He also let human armies fight for Him. Do you think Father stepped to the background and isn't involved in creation anymore. Just watching how His Son handles things? Or do you think God could step the forground again and raise a OT style army?
That's not just a question to you or about fighting Al Gore. I'm just wondering about the change in involvement of God.
there is a perceprtion amongst people that God will sort everything out, and we as believers must sit idly by and wait...
yes, God will sort everything out...but He has always done it through His people...its the law of the two witnessess...the heavenly plus the earthly
even in the OT the Israelites went to battle only after the Levites fought the spiritual warfare in the temple
the dominion God has given man (the earth) is still our dominion...we have nowhere else where we have been appointed to serve (for now)...this is the place where our kind will stand or fall...the seed which have been sown into this world (ie Jesus) has to grow into a tree and produce fruit...our weapon is the Sword of the Spirit...this sword can discern and seperate the thoughts and intentions of the heart
here's a link to an article that describes this much better than I can
Principles of Spiritual Warfare http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org/weblog/WebPosting.cfm?LogID=1773 (http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org/weblog/WebPosting.cfm?LogID=1773)
Anne, as for obeying governments and their rules...and I think Romans 13 would come to mind...this was also Hitler's favourite passage in the Bible...do you think God expects us to submit to a government which goes against His will? which steps on everything that is decent and human? I'm not saying one should oppose them with violence, there are many other means of letting our lights shine
Quote from: noname
Anne, as for obeying governments and their rules...and I think Romans 13 would come to mind...this was also Hitler's favourite passage in the Bible...do you think God expects us to submit to a government which goes against His will? which steps on everything that is decent and human? I'm not saying one should oppose them with violence, there are many other means of letting our lights shine
No, I'm not saying that. I was saying how I have seen Christians pull out that scripture in Romans and use it to prop up corrupt people in Washington when 'their guy' is in office, and then as soon as their guy is out of office they are calling for an uprising and open rebellion against the same 'offices', i.e. those who 'hope Obama fails' are the same ones who condoned Bush torturing people and breaking all sorts of laws. So it seems rather hypocritical to me that people cherry pick scriptures at their leisure in order to "fight". Those who are moving America toward Civil War may be sorry if and when things get down and dirty and out of hand. But I do sense civil war in the air in America and it does worry me, I'll admit that.
Anne
Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 09, 2009, 08:33:07 PM
This is not an American board. It is a global place where people come from many nations. Now why do you think that Christians from other nations would be interested in hearing Americans rail about their leaders?
I think the reality is that with globalization, what happens in America, good or bad, has a bearing on the rest of the world...
the dollar is the de facto world currency and therefore when the banks started failing in the USA, other economies around the world like Iceland's crashed...stockmarkets went belly-up and the ordinary man-on-the-street is affected...
also, America together with NATO, has the largest active army in the world and when it decides to invade a country, few can withstand it
Obama has been propped up to be "the saviour of the world" and will bring "change" and all things nice...Nobel peace laureate when he is fighting 5 (or more ?) wars in the world...what america does, is soon followed by other countries...right or wrong...so yes, I for one is interested in what he and his congress is doing
Quote from: NonameObama has been propped up to be "the saviour of the world" and will bring "change" and all things nice...Nobel peace laureate when he is fighting 5 (or more ?) wars in the world...
Is it five? I can think of three [including pakistan]. And, to think this was the peace candidate. The other guy was worse lol. Do the people who voted for him to end 'the war' feel betrayed? How long will people continue to put up with being betrayed? How are they supposed to deal with such blatant lies? For those of us who could perceive the lies to begin with, it's just business as usual.
Quote from: SQI am not sure where I read this but Global warming tactics has made Al Gore filthy Rich, from 2 million to almost 200 million.
This global warming seems to me to be a farce, God is in control of weather as always.
This is an opportune time where the rich get richer.
Yes well algore has to make enough money to support his own inconvenient truth, because, once again we see someone forcing something on us that he himself does not believe. The cognitive dissonance --that same old song of those who would lead the rest of us--has reached the pitch of a screeching car trying to avoid an accident on the freeway.
Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth'? -- $30,000 utility bill (2/27/07 - NASHVILLE, TN) --
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/national_world&id=5072659
QuoteScoffed a former Gore adviser in response: "I think what you're seeing here is the last gasp of the global warming skeptics. They've completely lost the debate on the issue so now they're just attacking their most effective opponent."
Luckily the Gore camp only has scientific arguments... :laughing7:
Quote"reviles the owners of SUVs as terrorist enablers,
Quote from: Molly on November 10, 2009, 02:54:33 PM
Is it five? I can think of three [including pakistan]. And, to think this was the peace candidate.
covert wars in Africa...ie Sudan, Somalia, DRC...backed the coup in Honduras...major military base in Colombia to challenge Venezuela...need I say more? CIA raping people with broken bottles, torturing kids in front of their parents to confess to whatever they want to...check the web, these stories are starting to surface everywhere...
it makes me sick that the emperor of this empire has been put in the same category as people like Nelson Mandela, FW de Klerk and Bishop Tutu who has devoted their lives to free their people from divisionism ie apartheid and all its evils...who have despite their previous hardships and injustice done to them, chosen to walk a road of peace and reconciliation
Noname,
Even I had to give up my hatred of W. in order to have peace with God even though I was disgusted with his murderous policies that brought our nation to ruin. You cannot hate your brother and have the love of God abiding in you at the same time - it's just not possible. It is futile to try to find one person to blame for all the misery in the world. It's a huge waste of energy (no environmentalist pun intended there).
Anne
Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 11, 2009, 01:25:53 PM
Noname,
Even I had to give up my hatred of W. in order to have peace with God even though I was disgusted with his murderous policies that brought our nation to ruin. You cannot hate your brother and have the love of God abiding in you at the same time - it's just not possible. It is futile to try to find one person to blame for all the misery in the world. It's a huge waste of energy (no environmentalist pun intended there).
Anne
Anne,
it is not me who hate my "brother", he hates you...and I'm trying to make you see
my "brother" is the oppressed of this world, NOT the oppressors...NOT the modern day Pharisees and Herods of this world who walks around proudly and filthy rich and heaping praises upon themselves while the poor and destitute are suffering...
Climate change study shows Earth is still absorbing carbon dioxide
The Earth has developed stores to absorb excessive levels of carbon dioxide, according to a study that challenges the conventional thinking on climate change.
By Louise Gray, Environment Correspondent
Published: 12:01AM GMT 11 Nov 2009
The research, by Bristol University, suggests that despite rising emissions, the world is is still able to store a significant amount of greenhouse gases in oceans and forests.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/6538300/Climate-change-study-shows-Earth-is-still-absorbing-carbon-dioxide.html
It's almost like the earth is alive in its ability to self regulate. The earth has outsmarted algore again. Does this mean he's dumber than dirt? :icon_jokercolor:
Molly,
You didn't bother to transcribe the entire article, and one wonders whether you bothered reading the whole article...
"But Dr Wolfgang Knorr cautioned that the world should still be trying to reduce carbon dioxide emissions as part of any climate change deal decided in Copenhagen next month.
He pointed out that the amount of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere is still increasing, even though half is absorbed by the Earth. Also there are fears that the oceans and soil become saturated and are unable to absorb any more CO2 in the future.
"Like all studies of this kind, there are uncertainties in the data, so rather than relying on Nature to provide a free service, soaking up our waste carbon, we need to ascertain why the proportion being absorbed has not changed," he said. "
Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 12, 2009, 07:26:19 AM
Molly,
You didn't bother to transcribe the entire article, and one wonders whether you bothered reading the whole article...
"But Dr Wolfgang Knorr cautioned that the world should still be trying to reduce carbon dioxide emissions as part of any climate change deal decided in Copenhagen next month.
He pointed out that the amount of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere is still increasing, even though half is absorbed by the Earth. Also there are fears that the oceans and soil become saturated and are unable to absorb any more CO2 in the future.
"Like all studies of this kind, there are uncertainties in the data, so rather than relying on Nature to provide a free service, soaking up our waste carbon, we need to ascertain why the proportion being absorbed has not changed," he said. "
What is this saying? It's saying that Copenhagen will be still trying to write its economic suicide note in December. It says that there are still fears [doesn't say they are founded on anything since the earth has been doing just fine for the last 180 years with CO2 emissions]. He wants to do further research to see why the earth is so beautifully self regulating.
But, you're welcome to think that this adds anything to the core study. The point is THE MODELS BEING USED BY GLOBAL WARMING PROPONENTS ARE BEING CONSISTENTLY SHOWN TO BE WRONG [when compared with REAL data].
Why the IPCC Global Warming Models are wrong. Look at the real data. God is good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xos49g1sdzo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpFk0zTW-ik&feature=related
Hi Raggedy Anne,
I don't understand your answer(s)
Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 12, 2009, 07:26:19 AM"But Dr Wolfgang Knorr cautioned that the world should still be trying to reduce carbon dioxide emissions as part of any climate change deal decided in Copenhagen next month.
That deal isn't necessarily based on solid evidence. And IMO at least for a part pure politics.
QuoteHe pointed out that the amount of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere is still increasing, even though half is absorbed by the Earth. Also there are fears that the oceans and soil become saturated and are unable to absorb any more CO2 in the future.
But is that what is debated? Most climate Al Gore critics don't deny that as we speak the climate is changing. It always behaved in a cyclic manner. The Al Gore scientists agree with that. Earth was far warmer a few centuries ago. Also agreed by the Al Gore scientists. The argument is that Al Gore thinks things are (much) different now. Usage of fossile fuels accerates the change. Major proof for that was hockey stick model. And the arbon emission-tempature relation. Both are debunked and admitted by Al Gore's scientists.
So the argument is not if the climate changes but; but if it's manmade and/or can be reverted/stopped/etc by man
Quote"Like all studies of this kind, there are uncertainties in the data, so rather than relying on Nature to provide a free service, soaking up our waste carbon, we need to ascertain why the proportion being absorbed has not changed," he said. "[/i]
Fair. But Anne wouldn't it be fair Al Gore mentioned similar words of caution?
Quote from: wwAnd IMO at least for a part pure politics.
These scientists are being terrorized by the politicians, or, as Obama puts it, marginalized. Their data is showing algore inc to be full of hot air but I see many of them afraid of alienating their funding with the truth.
Not that there is anything new about this--it has been going on for at least the last 100 years.
This is what happens when science becomes a political agenda instead of a search for truth.
And, by the way, I'm all in favor of not destroying the environment, I just don't want some fascist bureaucrat forcing their way into my home to tell me what lightbulbs to use [as an example]. [Their new lightbulbs don't work,
either.lol] Nor do I want to have to pay a bogus 10 billion dollar 'climate debt' so the IMF can continue to play footsies with the world. You want to know who is cutting down the rainforests? Look to the IMF and their corporate buddies. Don't look to me and my few measly lightbulbs.
Molly,
The Earth is self renewing no matter what we do to it? I suppose using nuclear weapons won't hurt the environment either. We can just do whatever we like because God will always renew the earth no matter how much we trash it? That is absolutely ludicrous. In fact, the earth is dying........
To pretend like we have no environmental crises is simply ignoring that which is evident all around the globe. You keep mentioning Al Gore. I've never suggested that he or Obama or any of these people can 'Save the Earth' - but just because they feel inclined to try to deal with the environmental devastation that is affecting the lives of people around the globe seems noble to me whether or not they succeed. I don't see their desire as some evil intention to take over the earth. The environmentalists I know and have listened to are in mourning over the devastation of the earth's condition. Why you would despise people who feel that way is beyond my understanding.
Insects, Birds And Fish Dying In The Millions
http://loveforlife.com.au/node/122
Isaiah 24 - Judgment on the Whole Earth
1Behold, the LORD will empty the earth and make it desolate,
and he will twist its surface and scatter its inhabitants.
2 And it shall be, as with the people, so with the priest;
as with the slave, so with his master;
as with the maid, so with her mistress;
as with the buyer, so with the seller;
as with the lender, so with the borrower;
as with the creditor, so with the debtor.
3 The earth shall be utterly empty and utterly plundered;
for the LORD has spoken this word.
4 The earth mourns and withers;
the world languishes and withers;
the highest people of the earth languish.
5The earth lies defiled
under its inhabitants;
for they have transgressed the laws,
violated the statutes,
broken the everlasting covenant.
6Therefore a curse devours the earth,
and its inhabitants suffer for their guilt;
therefore the inhabitants of the earth are scorched,
and few men are left.
7 The wine mourns,
the vine languishes,
all the merry-hearted sigh.
8 The mirth of the tambourines is stilled,
the noise of the jubilant has ceased,
the mirth of the lyre is stilled.
9No more do they drink wine(N) with singing;
strong drink is bitter to those who drink it.
10 The wasted city is broken down;
every house is shut up so that none can enter.
11 There is an outcry in the streets for lack of wine;
all joy has grown dark;
the gladness of the earth is banished.
12Desolation is left in the city;
the gates are battered into ruins.
13For thus it shall be in the midst of the earth
among the nations,
as when an olive tree is beaten,
as at the gleaning when the grape harvest is done.
14They lift up their voices, they sing for joy;
over the majesty of the LORD they shout from the west.
15 Therefore in the east[c] give glory to the LORD;
in the coastlands of the sea, give glory to the name of the LORD, the God of Israel.
16 From the ends of the earth we hear songs of praise,
of glory to the Righteous One.
But I say, "I waste away,
I waste away. Woe is me!
For the traitors have betrayed,
with betrayal the traitors have betrayed."
17 Terror and the pit and the snare[d]
are upon you, O inhabitant of the earth!
18 He who flees at the sound of the terror
shall fall into the pit,
and he who climbs out of the pit
shall be caught in the snare.
For the windows of heaven are opened,
and the foundations of the earth tremble.
19The earth is utterly broken,
the earth is split apart,
the earth is violently shaken.
20The earth staggers like a drunken man;
it sways like a hut;
its transgression lies heavy upon it,
and it falls, and will not rise again.
21On that day the LORD will punish
the host of heaven, in heaven,
and the kings of the earth, on the earth.
22 They will be gathered together
as prisoners in a pit;
they will be shut up in a prison,
and after many days(AF) they will be punished.
23 Then the moon will be confounded
and the sun ashamed,
for the LORD of hosts reigns
on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem,
and his glory will be before his elders.
_______________________________________________
Also Consider:
The Destruction of
the World in Prophecy
By Ernest L. Martin, Ph.D., 1993
http://www.askelm.com/prophecy/p930101.htm
__________________________________________________
Quote from: AnneThe Earth is self renewing no matter what we do to it?
I never said 'no matter what we do to it.' I'm just amazed at the earth's ability to self regulate in the face of what we've already done to it. The IPCC model is wrong. There is no greenhouse effect. The hotter the earth becomes [from sunlight, not CO2 which has negligible effect on temperature] the more it radiates heat to cool itself down. You think I advocate the use of nuclear weapons? I advocate the use of good science.
QuoteIn fact, the earth is dying........
To pretend like we have no environmental crises is simply ignoring that which is evident all around the globe.
The earth is 'dying'? Isn't that a bit extreme? Could you prove that statement? Did the earth die when all the dinosaurs went extinct? Did the earth die when homoerectus went extinct? or neanderthal? Or the great wooly mammouth?
There is a way to respect the earth without draconian legislation that makes human life miserable. I am specifically against the Copenhagen treaty and cap and trade because I do not see where those efforts will solve the problem, but they will turn us into a third world country, and harm our national sovereignty and our Constitution, IMO. Show me something that will solve the problem, if there is a problem, and I will support it. But don't make up alarmist theories about a made-up problem to promote a radical political agenda.
From your article:
In Texas, officials are also working on the toxic poisoning theory. Adolfo Valadez, medical director for Austin and Travis County Health and Human Services, said it might be weeks before any conclusive results were known.
Such was the concern that the birds suffered deliberate toxic poisoning that several streets were closed in Austin while police and fire crews checked the area for any substance that might be of harm to humans.
"This was a precautionary measure. We certainly take these kinds of thing seriously, especially following 9/11," said Mr Valadez. "It may be a matter of time before we know what happened and why it happened. There is no threat to public health."
Anne do you believe this? From your link--
"It may come as a surprise to some people but the Holy Scriptures describe a time associated with the Second Advent of Christ that any modern day scientist would attest is a classic description of an asteroid or comet of a moderate size (say a mile or so in diameter) hitting the earth. After mentioning that the mercantile system on earth that provides wealth and prosperity is to be destroyed (read all of Isaiah 23 along with the future prophecies in the Book of Revelation about the same thing -- Revelation 18:11-17), the prophet Isaiah continued his description of "Doomsday" by his prophecy recorded in all of Isaiah chapter 24. You should read that chapter and pay attention to every word. It shows, without the slightest doubt, the complete and utter destruction of world civilization. The world will return to a barbaric state with only a few men left over the entirety of the earth, and the wide devastation will last for 70 years (Isaiah 23:17,18).
Thus, the first 70 years of the Millennium (after Christ comes back to earth with his judgments) will witness the earth in a very devastated state. All civilization as we know it today (or as we have known it for the past 4000 years) will come to a sudden halt. The first 70 years of the Millennium (while the resurrected saints of God are in heaven learning how to adapt to their new spiritual bodies and the new spiritual environment that they find themselves a part of) will witness a time when the few humans left on earth will be struggling even to exist in a wild and uncivilized state in an almost empty earth.
But at the end of those first 70 years of the Millennium, God will cause the earth to begin to regain its civilization once again. Trade and merchandising will re-emerge to their former status (Isaiah 23:17,18), and a glorious time for the earth will once again develop that will last for 930 years (until the end of the Millennium). It is interesting that these 930 years the earth will be in a glorious and wonderful state will last precisely the length of time that Adam lived on earth (Genesis 5:5)."
You know, really, if God expects me to sit around in heaven while most of the world's population is destroyed, I withdraw my application for sainthood. This is as bad as ET.
Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 12, 2009, 01:47:25 PM
You keep mentioning Al Gore. I've never suggested that he or Obama or any of these people can 'Save the Earth' - but just because they feel inclined to try to deal with the environmental devastation that is affecting the lives of people around the globe seems noble to me whether or not they succeed.
my problem with the whole global warming thing is that it is true to an extent, but the source of this is being lied about...
humans are NOT the major source of global warming...the biggest influence on earth's temperature is caused by:
1) sunspots (ie extra-ordinary explosions on the sun causing increased gamma rays hitting our biosphere and subsequently heating up the earth) - currently their is a lull of sunspots, i'm sure you guys have felt the cold the last fe winters to be more severe, not the heat to be more extreme
2) volcanic eruptions are causing and have caused major fluctiations in the earth's temperatrure (just check the data gathered from ice layers in antarctica),
3) sea currents rise and fall taking the colder water to the bottom of the oceans and the hotter water rises to the top, adding to earth's mean temperature
the problem with Gore et al is that they'd like to make a buck out of this natural phenomenon...taxing companies and individuals to pay for what has been naturally occurring on the earth for millenia...it seems that their greed knows no end
Quote from: nonamethe problem with Gore et al is that they'd like to make a buck out of this natural phenomenon...taxing companies and individuals to pay for what has been naturally occurring on the earth for millenia...it seems that their greed knows no end
It's worse than that. They are using this lie to set up their world government. The Copenhagen treaty [which they want Obama to sign this December] has the word 'government' in it.
I heard he's not going to Copenhagen in December. I hope that is true.
Scientists manipulating data, bullying Journal editors, and stifling their colleagues who disagree with them? I'm shocked and surprised! :mshock:
This scandal is proof of something that has been obvious for a long time--science has become a religion in the last century, complete with high priests and Inquisitors. I give my most humble thanks to those scientists who are still telling the truth, despite the consequences to themselves, and an intellectual climate that makes dissent dangerous. They are modern hero's.
Pay No Attention to the Climate Scientists behind the Curtain
In case you hadn't noticed, the esoteric deliberations of the Anthropogenic Global Warming Orthodoxy were exposed for all the world to see when someone hacked into the computers at the University of East Anglia's Climatic Research Center. Now this hacking was an invasion of privacy and probably illegal, so I deplore it. But that doesn't mean I can ignore it now that it's public!
That there has been a change among the MSM of late is very interesting. Both the Washington Post and the New York Times report the story, more or less honestly. Could it be the influence of Fox News? Better get it out, before Glen Beck goes postal.
These emails tell us what prominent scientists who are campaigning to stop anthropogenic global warming (AGW) are saying to each other in private. In one juicy tidbit, a climate researcher describes how he intentionally distorts the data to hide the recent decline in global temperatures.
In other released messages, global warming alarmists discuss how they can bring pressure on peer-reviewed journals and IPCC (International Panel on Climate Change) to suppress any papers or reports that contradict the orthodoxy. From the WaPo:
In one e-mail, the center's director, Phil Jones, writes Pennsylvania State University's Michael E. Mann and questions whether the work of academics that question the link between human activities and global warming deserve to make it into the prestigious IPCC report, which represents the global consensus view on climate science.
"I can't see either of these papers being in the next IPCC report," Jones writes. "Kevin and I will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!"
Well, that's a solution to peer-reviewed research that contradicts the orthodox view: redefine "peer-review literature" so that it excludes certain inconvenient findings.
In another, Jones and Mann discuss how they can pressure an academic journal not to accept the work of climate skeptics with whom they disagree. "Perhaps we should encourage our colleagues in the climate research community to no longer submit to, or cite papers in, this journal," Mann writes.
"I will be emailing the journal to tell them I'm having nothing more to do with it until they rid themselves of this troublesome editor," Jones replies.
This is not science. It is an established church conducting an inquisition. Many legitimate and credentialed researchers who are skeptical of AGW have complained of brutish campaigns to marginalize and exclude them. Their complaints are now confirmed beyond reasonable doubt.
Powerline today points out something even more interesting: global warming activists acknowledging to one another that they don't know at all what the climate is doing. Industrial activity in China and elsewhere emits green house gases like carbon dioxide. But it also admits other substances, some of which have the opposite effect of green house gases, and promote cooler temperatures. How does it balance out?
Sulphur dioxide, like carbon dioxide, is emitted as a result of industrial activity. Unlike carbon dioxide, it is actually a pollutant. But whereas carbon dioxide tends to warm, sulphur dioxide tends to cool, and MacCracken suggests that SO2 emissions from China and India may well be offsetting the temperature impact of CO2. The net effect of human activity, therefore, may be much closer to neutral than the alarmists have been claiming.
That's Powerline's summary of a long quote from the emails. These are the scientists at the very center of the global warming orthodoxy, and they don't know whether their own climate models are any good or not. Are we really going to suppress economic activity all over the globe, at a moment when the world is experiencing a grave economic downturn, over such as this?
I have loved science since I was ten years old. Science always faces serious threats from people who don't want to know that the world isn't what they think it is. It is clear which side of that divide the global warming alarmists are on.
http://southdakotapolitics.blogs.com/south_dakota_politics/2009/11/pay-no-attention-to-the-climate-scientists-behind-the-curtain.html
(http://i50.tinypic.com/301j8kh.jpg)
Click here for a simple written article that shows what exactly both side argue about. (http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/images/stories/press_releases/monckton-response-to-gore-errors.pdf)
:cloud9: Just a simple question; if it's all bogus, then why are massive sheets of icebergs, miles in diameter, breaking off and floating out into the oceans? It's been in the news for quite a while now, with another article just this week about over a hundred of them approaching New Zealand's southern shores. Blessings....
I dont see how the planet will self- correct, like the human body doesnt correct its self if you pollute it with burgers and fags and booze it just gets more and more unhealthy. Just like body pollution is caused by greed so is the pollution of the planet. People wanting to use up natural resources as quickly as possible to make the most money, there are consequences and unfortunately its our children who will suffer :sigh:
The 1984 element is that people are fed so many lies on both sides of the aisle by puppets that they are at war with each other over it and no one is watching the puppet master!
fags = cigerettes!!!!
Quote from: Cardinal on November 25, 2009, 04:39:15 PM
:cloud9: Just a simple question; if it's all bogus, then why are massive sheets of icebergs, miles in diameter, breaking off and floating out into the oceans? It's been in the news for quite a while now, with another article just this week about over a hundred of them approaching New Zealand's southern shores. Blessings....
Hi Cardinal--
Not sure what you mean? The icebergs around New Zealand are evidence of cooling not warming. Normally they would melt before they ever get there. I've been to New Zealand. They actually have glaciers on the land mass of New Zealand. I visited one.
23 Nov 09 - More than 100, possibly hundreds, of Antarctic icebergs are floating toward New Zealand, prompting a maritime alert to ships in the south Pacific Ocean.
The alert comes three years after
cold weather and favorable ocean currents brought dozens of icebergs to within 25 km (15.5 miles) of New Zealand's southern coast for the first time since 1931."Measuring up to 200 meters (650 feet) across and 30 yards (meters) tall, the icebergs are part of a "flotilla" of icebergs that can be seen on satellite images, said Australian glaciologist Neal Young.
"It is rare for whole icebergs to drift so far north before melting," said this article on Yahoo, "but
a cold snap around southern New Zealand and favorable ocean currents have again combined to push the towering visitors to the region intact."
"Icebergs are formed as the ice shelf develops. Snow falls on the ice sheet and forms more ice, which flows to the edges of the floating ice shelves. Eventually, pieces around the edge break off."
Young said that having the icebergs end up near New Zealand is not necessarily linked to global warming ... and then went on to link them to global warming.
I wonder if the 1931 icebergs were also a result of global warming?
And if New Zealand becomes entirely surrounded by icebergs, will
that be even more proof of global warming? How about if all of New
Zealand's glaciers should double in size? More proof?
See entire articles:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091124/ap_on_re_as/as_new_zealand_icebergs
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20091123/ts_afp/australianzealandantarcticaclimateiceberg
Thanks to Dan Govier in the UK and Brad at WCCO for these links
http://www.iceagenow.com/Hundreds_of_icebergs_drifting_toward_New_Zealand.htm
Quote from: Cardinal on November 25, 2009, 04:39:15 PM
:cloud9: Just a simple question; if it's all bogus, then why are massive sheets of icebergs, miles in diameter, breaking off and floating out into the oceans? It's been in the news for quite a while now, with another article just this week about over a hundred of them approaching New Zealand's southern shores. Blessings....
You are possibly mixing up a few things Cardinal.
First of all "anti-Gore" scientists are not saying there is no climate change.
They say it's a natural climate cycle that happend even when there was no industry at all (and very few or no humans) So even if the temp rises 10 degrees a year; are we or 'nature' to blame?
Yes ice sheets are breaking of. But elsewhere it's getting colder. The sahara desert is shrinking because more rain.
And much more. With 5000 scientists there can be different views. Nothing wrong with that. Overall that improves science. But if you read the articles it's not science anymore. Just lies and pick and choose. Propaganda to support carbon tax.
Just like ETs answering everyting with a out of context verse.
I don't know about the US but whatever Gore says gets plenty of air time. A few months back there was a conference of climate scientists. Plus a few thousand scientists signed a petition that they find the approach of Gore noth worthy of science. Guess what nothing on the news. And that no incident. It's structural.
I can go and on but I just want to say it's not that clear as Gore wants us to believe. It's not that all scientists agree.
Viscount Monckton on Climategate: 'They Are Criminals' (PJM Exclusive)
The man who challenged Al Gore to a debate is furious about the content of the leaked CRU emails — and says why you should be, too.
November 23, 2009 - by Christopher Monckton
This is what they did — these climate "scientists" on whose unsupported word the world's classe politique proposes to set up an unelected global government this December in Copenhagen, with vast and unprecedented powers to control all formerly free markets, to tax wealthy nations and all of their financial transactions, to regulate the economic and environmental affairs of all nations, and to confiscate and extinguish all patent and intellectual property rights.
The tiny, close-knit clique of climate scientists who invented and now drive the "global warming" fraud — for fraud is what we now know it to be — tampered with temperature data so assiduously that, on the recent admission of one of them, land temperatures since 1980 have risen twice as fast as ocean temperatures. One of the thousands of emails recently circulated by a whistleblower at the University of East Anglia, where one of the world's four global-temperature datasets is compiled, reveals that data were altered so as to prevent a recent decline in temperature from showing in the record. In fact, there has been no statistically significant "global warming" for 15 years — and there has been rapid and significant cooling for nine years.
Worse, these arrogant fraudsters — for fraudsters are what we now know them to be — have refused, for years and years and years, to reveal their data and their computer program listings. Now we know why: As a revealing 15,000-line document from the computer division at the Climate Research Unit shows, the programs and data are a hopeless, tangled mess. In effect, the global temperature trends have simply been made up. Unfortunately, the British researchers have been acting closely in league with their U.S. counterparts who compile the other terrestrial temperature dataset — the GISS/NCDC dataset. That dataset too contains numerous biases intended artificially to inflate the natural warming of the 20th century.
Finally, these huckstering snake-oil salesmen and "global warming" profiteers — for that is what they are — have written to each other encouraging the destruction of data that had been lawfully requested under the Freedom of Information Act in the UK by scientists who wanted to check whether their global temperature record had been properly compiled. And that procurement of data destruction, as they are about to find out to their cost, is a criminal offense. They are not merely bad scientists — they are crooks. And crooks who have perpetrated their crimes at the expense of British and U.S. taxpayers.
I am angry, and so should you be.
What have the mainstream news media said about the Climategate affair? Remarkably little. The few who have brought themselves to comment, through gritted teeth, have said that all of this is a storm in a teacup, and that their friends in the University of East Anglia and elsewhere in the climatological community are good people, really.
No, they're not. They're criminals. With Professor Fred Singer, who founded the U.S. Satellite Weather Service, I have reported them to the UK's Information Commissioner, with a request that he investigate their offenses and, if thought fit, prosecute. But I won't be holding my breath: In the police state that Britain has now sadly become, with supine news media largely owned and controlled by the government, the establishment tends to look after its own.
At our expense, and at the expense of the truth.
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/viscount-monckton-on-global-warminggate-they-are-criminals-pjm-exclusive
Quote from: natcat86 on November 25, 2009, 04:56:47 PM
I dont see how the planet will self- correct, like the human body doesnt correct its self if you pollute it with burgers and fags and booze it just gets more and more unhealthy. Just like body pollution is caused by greed so is the pollution of the planet. People wanting to use up natural resources as quickly as possible to make the most money, there are consequences and unfortunately its our children who will suffer :sigh:
The 1984 element is that people are fed so many lies on both sides of the aisle by puppets that they are at war with each other over it and no one is watching the puppet master!
Yep. Well put.
Anne
Quote from: Raggedy Anne on November 26, 2009, 01:40:45 PM
Quote from: natcat86 on November 25, 2009, 04:56:47 PM
I dont see how the planet will self- correct, like the human body doesnt correct its self if you pollute it with burgers and fags and booze it just gets more and more unhealthy. Just like body pollution is caused by greed so is the pollution of the planet. People wanting to use up natural resources as quickly as possible to make the most money, there are consequences and unfortunately its our children who will suffer :sigh:
The 1984 element is that people are fed so many lies on both sides of the aisle by puppets that they are at war with each other over it and no one is watching the puppet master!
Yep. Well put.
Anne
Thanks Anne, I think we share a lot of opinions about the world.
:Hi5:
Australia carbon emissions law hit by opposition revolt
By Nick Bryant
BBC News, Sydney
The Australian government's plans to enact a law for an emissions trading scheme have been thrown into chaos.
A revolt within the opposition Liberal Party could overturn an agreement reached earlier in the week with the Liberal leader, Malcolm Turnbull.
He agreed to pass the measure through the upper house of parliament where the government does not have a majority.
But opposition climate change sceptics have vowed to scupper the legislation and have challenged his leadership.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8382069.stm
Climategate: five Aussie MPs lead the way by resigning in disgust over carbon tax
By James Delingpole Politics Last updated: November 26th, 2009
Australia is leading the revolt against Al Gore's great big AGW conspiracy – just as the Aussie geologist and AGW sceptic Professor Ian Plimer predicted it would.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100018003/climategate-five-aussie-mps-lead-the-way-by-resigning-in-disgust-over-carbon-tax/
you go ozzy! :thumbsup:
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/282540
the swine flu, may have mutated because doctors are finding their patients experiencing a burning sensation and blackened lungs, states National Terror Alert.
One doctor said, according to the Daily Express, "We have carried out post mortems on two victims and found their lungs are as black as charcoal. They look like they have been burned. It's terrifying."
yeah. right. mutated. Now it's the pig/bird/human/black lung flu. :mblush:
According to Adrian Gibbs, Australian top virologist it's a combination or virusses from 3 different continents.
Although it's theorectically possible birds carried the flu from 3 continents manmade is more likely.
Today's article (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601124&sid=ajw2AS.d1wK8)
An older article listing the man' credentials (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=afrdATVXPEAk)
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 27, 2009, 10:37:59 PM
According to Adrian Gibbs, Australian top virologist it's a combination or virusses from 3 different continents.
Although it's theorectically possible birds carried the flu from 3 continents manmade is more likely.
This is from a Dutch translation without the source. Maybe you can find the original article?
It's pretty obvious it's manmade, isn't it? Or do flu's always mutate into mysterious black lung disease? Now all that remains is to find the perps and shoot them [legally, of course :gangel:]. I'm not for the death penalty, but if anything ever deserved the death penalty, mass murder is it.
They are already dead Molly. They sinned by kneeling for the ca$h god.
I updated my post with links to the article I refered to.
Another theory is that pharmaceutical company, Baxter International, is plotting to spread a plague from Baxter's Ukrainian laboratory. This possibility came from bio-scientist, Joseph Moshe, who worked within Mossad and has dual citizenship within the United States and Israel. He contacted a radio show warning people and later he was arrested by the LAPD/SWAT, FBI and the Secret Service. The trio pepper-sprayed the man and sent him to a California mental hospital.
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 27, 2009, 10:45:11 PM
They are already dead Molly. They sinned by kneeling for the ca$h god.
I updated my post with links to the article I refered to.
Escaped! I hate when that happens. As if they should ever be messing with this stuff in the lab to begin with--freakin' morons. 'Escaped' and 'accidental' is the most benign thing you can say. Can you tell I'm angry? I've been expecting this--and here it is. Let's see if he lives to publish his report.
But, what is he really saying between the lines? Look where he says it might have originated. In the eggs used to create the vaccine!!
The World Health Organization is investigating a claim by an Australian researcher that the swine flu virus circling the globe may have been created as a result of human error.
Adrian Gibbs, 75, who collaborated on research that led to the development of Roche Holding AG's Tamiflu drug, said in an interview that he intends to publish a report suggesting the new strain may have accidentally evolved in eggs scientists use to grow viruses and drugmakers use to make vaccines. Gibbs said he came to his conclusion as part of an effort to trace the virus's origins by analyzing its genetic blueprint.
"One of the simplest explanations is that it's a laboratory escape," Gibbs said in an interview with Bloomberg Television today. "But there are lots of others."
Quote from: Molly on November 27, 2009, 10:42:22 PM
Now all that remains is to find the perps and shoot them [legally, of course :gangel:]
Those men deserve the best medical treatment possible against swine flu. Their own medicine :winkgrin:
Speaking about medicine.
The German people are also vaccinated. The German politican get the same shot but without a certain <something>
Don't know the name. Adjevant? Something to keep the vaccin "fresh" I think it's the squaleen stuff but I'm not sure.
Quote from: wwAnother theory is that pharmaceutical company, Baxter International, is plotting to spread a plague from Baxter's Ukrainian laboratory. This possibility came from bio-scientist, Joseph Moshe, who worked within Mossad and has dual citizenship within the United States and Israel. He contacted a radio show warning people and later he was arrested by the LAPD/SWAT, FBI and the Secret Service. The trio pepper-sprayed the man and sent him to a California mental hospital.
yeah. this guy must be crazy. who would ever think a thing like that? :mblush:
surround him with swat teams, fill his volkswagon bug with bug spray, and drag him off to a mental hospital where he will be happily drugged into oblivion. Go for it!
Quote from: Molly on November 27, 2009, 10:53:08 PM
"One of the simplest explanations is that it's a laboratory escape," Gibbs said in an interview with Bloomberg Television today. "But there are lots of others."
That's from the old article on the original flu. I always thought the security measures in such labs are extremely high. And certainly more than someone using public transport to ship the stuff.
Anyway it seems the lab has collected virus strains from 3 continents and when they mixed them they again accidently escaped. With so much luck I would suggest the scientists quit their jobs and goto Vegas and play some slot machines...
QuoteThe new H1N1 strain, which was discovered in Mexico and the U.S. in April, may be the product of three strains from three continents that swapped genes in a lab or a vaccine-making plant, Gibbs, and fellow Australian scientists wrote in Virology Journal. The authors analyzed the genetic makeup of the virus and found its origin could be more simply explained by human involvement than a coincidence of nature.
.
Quote from: wwThe new H1N1 strain, which was discovered in Mexico and the U.S. in April, may be the product of three strains from three continents that swapped genes in a lab or a vaccine-making plant, Gibbs, and fellow Australian scientists wrote in Virology Journal. The authors analyzed the genetic makeup of the virus and found its origin could be more simply explained by human involvement than a coincidence of nature.
Those nasty viruses swapping genes in the lab! Just goes to show you can't trust a virus. Wipe them off the face of the earth!
Thursday, December 3, 2009
Researcher: NASA hiding climate data
The fight over global warming science is about to cross the Atlantic with a U.S. researcher poised to sue NASA, demanding release of the same kind of climate data that has landed a leading British center in hot water over charges it skewed its data.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/dec/03/researcher-says-nasa-hiding-climate-data/
Quote from: WhiteWings on November 27, 2009, 11:00:55 PM
Quote from: Molly on November 27, 2009, 10:42:22 PM
Now all that remains is to find the perps and shoot them [legally, of course :gangel:]
Those men deserve the best medical treatment possible against swine flu. Their own medicine :winkgrin:
Speaking about medicine.
The German people are also vaccinated. The German politican get the same shot but without a certain <something>
Don't know the name. Adjevant? Something to keep the vaccin "fresh" I think it's the squaleen stuff but I'm not sure.
Well, it wouldn't be the squalene. That's the ingredient (also present in H1N1 vaccine) that was responsible for Gulf War syndrome. Squalene is a naturally occurring substance in the body, but when introduced into the body from outside, it can cause severe neurological and autoimmune problems.
Peace Doesn't Work, Obama Informs Nobel Committee
"In extolling the virtues of war while accepting what was supposed to be a prize for radical advocates of peace, President Obama had what could only be called one of the quintessential jerkass moments of American history, an embarrassing exhortation to the advocates of peace to accept violence as the one true way of solving the world's problems."
http://news.antiwar.com/2009/12/10/peace-doesnt-work-obama-informs-nobel-committee/ (http://news.antiwar.com/2009/12/10/peace-doesnt-work-obama-informs-nobel-committee/)
"War, in one form or another, appeared with the first man. At the dawn of history, its morality was not questioned; it was simply a fact, like drought or disease - the manner in which tribes and then civilizations sought power and settled their differences."
Obama
"Thou shalt not kill.
The LORD said, "What have you done? Listen! Your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground.
And from each man, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of his fellow man.
Whoever sheds the blood of man,
by man shall his blood be shed;
for in the image of God
has God made man.
But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere.
Peacemakers who sow in peace raise a harvest of righteousness."
God
God help us all
"WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH."
--George Orwell, 1984
75% of weather station station data dropped in climate models. (similar things happend to African and South American data)
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100020126/climategate-goes-serial-now-the-russians-confirm-that-uk-climate-scientists-manipulated-data-to-exaggerate-global-warming/ (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100020126/climategate-goes-serial-now-the-russians-confirm-that-uk-climate-scientists-manipulated-data-to-exaggerate-global-warming/)
Climategate goes SERIAL: now the Russians confirm that UK climate scientists manipulated data to exaggerate global warming
They ignored data covering 40% of Russia and chose data that showed a warming trend over statistically preferable alternatives when available.
One the final page, there is a chart that shows that CRU's selective use of 25% of the data created 0.64C more warming than simply using all of the raw data would have done.
Copenhagen--Polar Bear seeks out climategate scientist---verbally attacked by G.W. zealots
A faux Polar Bear entered the Copenhagen main conference center Tuesday and began an all out search for the lying-scheming climate scientist whose hacked emails ignited the ire of conservatives, Phil Jones. The Climategate scandal proved what most "true" conservatives knew, the data was being manipulated.
The huggable polar bear was greeted by a round of jeers from the attendees at Copenhagen's main conference center Tuesday and began paging the discredited climate scientist whose hacked e-mails sparked the Climate-Gate scandal.
The polar bear armed with a megaphone shouted out in the Bella Center, host to the city's global climate summit, the polar bear roared out:
"PHIL JONES??? HAS ANYONE SEEN PHIL JONES???"
Remember, Phil Jones, Dr. Trick and hide the decline, was the lying scientist that had to step down from the head of an academic post due to his emails being hacked. Lo and behold scientists have been lying to the world in order to scam trillions out of economically developed countries.
The polar bear, aka Phelim McAleer, journalist-filmmaker, on threats of being attacked, injured and stuffed by the highly partisan and delusional crowd.
One female Climate Change fanatic advised him to,
"get out of here now while you still can."
http://www.examiner.com/x-14143-Orange-County-Conservative-Examiner~y2009m12d16-CopenhagenPolar-Bear-seeks-out-climategate-scientist--verbally-attacked-by-GW-zealots
[tongue-in-cheek]if polar bears aren't welcome anymore at climate conferences...i just don't know...what has become of us?[/tongue-in-cheek]
Quote from: natcat86According to the Super intendant the child had drawn and labeled a picture of himself on the cross. I'd see why someone would find that a cause for concern. Also Taunton is known as The Christmas City because of its large public christmas displays. So good news!
We'll see. It's not over yet. [I moved this over here so we can discuss it without too badly hijacking Cardinal's holiday thread.]
Rutherford Institute takes case of boy given psych evaluation after drawing JesusCharlottesville, Va., Dec 17, 2009 / 09:47 pm (CNA).- The Rutherford Institute is taking on the case of a Massachusetts second grader who was forced by the local school district to undergo psychological evaluations for drawing a stick figure, crucified Jesus with his own name on a placard above the corpus.
"This is a case of overreaction by school officials," said John W. Whitehead, president of the Rutherford Institute on Wednesday.
On Dec. 2, second grader Jalen Cromwell was taken to the principal's office at Lowell M. Maxham School in Taunton, Mass. where he was questioned about his drawing of Christ. According to his family, the picture reflected the child's impressions of a recent family trip to the Christmas lighting at the Shrine of La Sallette.
According to a Dec. 16 letter written to the Taunton School District by John Whitehead, President of the Rutherford Institute, Jalen drew the picture at school during free time after a snack break. "Jalen placed the picture inside his desk but for some reason it was removed and inspected," Whitehead recounted in his letter.
Jalen was then taken to Principal Rebecca Couet's office and questioned without the presence or notification of his parents. The letter claims that this questioning greatly disturbed Jalen and that only afterward was his father, Chester Johnson, contacted. When Johnson arrived, he was shown the picture and told that his son needed to leave and could not return until he had undergone psychological evaluation.
The next day, Melissa Cromwell, Jalen's mother, went to the school to discuss the matter further and was told by the principal that Jalen needed to be removed due to school policy.
"When Ms. Cromwell asked Principal Couet to point out the policy in the school's handbook, the principal was not able to do so and Ms. Cromwell still has received no satisfactory explanation as to why Jalen's removal was required," stated Whitehead's letter.
In response to these allegations, the Taunton School District released a press statement on Tuesday claiming that Jalen was not suspended, that the current drawing being circulated in the media is not the original drawing and that communication between Jalen's parents and the district are "positive and cooperative."
"He wasn't technically suspended, but he was removed from school," Whitehead told CNA on Thursday, "which means, he was in effect, suspended." Whitehead explained to CNA that Jalen was told to leave on Wednesday Dec. 2 and could not return to class until the following Monday.
As evidenced by the numerous interviews they have recently given, "the parents are not cordial," said Whitehead in response to the Taunton School District's Dec. 15 statement that Jalen's family and the school have been "working together in a cooperative and positive manner."
The school district claimed on Dec. 15 that "the drawing published in various media outlets is not the same drawing that was discovered by the teacher." Two different drawings have been recently circulated in the media, both identical images of the crucifixion, with the exception of Jalen's name being written above the cross on a placard on one of the images. Some have speculated that Jalen's name was removed by the family before it was released into the media in order to protect the boy's identity.
The Rutherford Institute could not confirm this to CNA, but has posted an image without Jalen's name on its website.
"If they (the school district) have another drawing, they have yet to produce it," Whitehead told CNA on Thursday.
According to Whitehead, Jalen has informed his parents that he no longer trusts his teachers nor wants to continue attending Lowell M. Maxham School. Jalen's parents are currently requesting that the school arrange for Jalen to be transferred to an out of district school and to compensate them for transportation costs.
Whitehead noted what he believes to be the severity of the situation in his letter to the Taunton School District, stating
"the effective suspension of Jalen from school deprived him and his parents if their constitutional rights to due process and punished Jalen for engaging in protected speech." http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/rutherford_institute_takes_case_of_boy_given_psych_evaluation_after_drawing_jesus/
Hey Molly good move!
Heres what might be the other side to the story
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/15/school-denies-that-boy-wa_n_393667.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/12/15/school-denies-that-boy-wa_n_393667.html)
My opinion is that some western christians seem to want to see themselves as persecuted wherever possible. Like Bill O'Reilly and his "reporting" on the so-called War on Christmas and Fox and Friends frequent out rage that the government holds up its side of keeping a seperation between church and state. The persecution is usually only inforcing this seperation. I think we need to be mindful that there are people being literally killed for their faith in Christ around the world everyday! When people are up in arms because a manger scene has been moved from a public building for example it really seems they trivialise the true persecution happening in the world.
Most misionaries I have heard speak about their time with persecuted believers, those facing prison and even death always comment on how, peaceful, loving and joyous they are! (makes me think of Christ and Stephen)
When I see some christians on T.V, like Gretchen Carlson for example in out rage over the petty persecution they face, calling for national revolt, people to be removed from office they just seem bitter! (I think of those who wanted a messiah who would fight the Roman rule).
Just my :2c: as someone outside looking in :happygrin:
QuoteWhen I see some christians on T.V, like Gretchen Carlson for example in out rage over the petty persecution they face, calling for national revolt, people to be removed from office they just seem bitter! (I think of those who wanted a messiah who would fight the Roman rule).
Very good point. May my spirit be one of love when I am "persecuted" for my own beliefs. :cloud9:
The school system is clearly parsing words by saying the child was 'never suspended.' The child was asked to leave until he got approval from a psychologist, paid for by his parents, that he was not a threat to himself or others. Eight years old! His father says he has no history of behavior problems. So, what game is the principal playing by saying the boy was not 'suspended'?
This battle is every bit as important as anything any missionary is doing, and if you think protecting your kids is a cushy job not worthy of mentioning--well, I"m sure you don't think that...
The local school system has decided to take a hard line on this instead of admitting the error of their ways in traumatizing this little boy--put yourself in his shoes or his parents shoes--not to mention depriving them of their rights, so, they can tell it to a Judge and Jury because this isn't going away.
We are still a Christian country, regardless of what some might say, and we should take back our public schools and insist the Bible is read every day, and every child is taught about Jesus. Does that look radical to you? That is the way the public schools were run in this country until this past century. Children were taught to read with the Bible. There is nothing in our Constitution about separation of church and state, only that we have religious freedom--which is getting more and more scarce by the day.
I wouldn't want my child learning about Jesus at school. It's my job as a parent to tell him about the Lord. I'm fresh out of mainstream christianity and have left my church because I do not want my son to learn about Jesus from people who believe in ET. There are so many varying interpretations of christianity and different teachings and doctrine that I dont want anyone but my husband and I deciding what my child learns. The bigger the seperation between church and state the better I say.
I dont understand, if the gov. cant be trusted with health care why would you want them to be involved in teaching children about Jesus. In this country catholic schools are one of the biggest athiest making machines there is!
You have much religious freedom as far as I can see, you can worship who you want, in any private setting, in your home you can teach you children whatever you like. But if you make school a place for teaching about the Lord, well whose version? Catholic, Mormon, Protestant, ET, UR? :dontknow:
That's a good point, I guess. However, it is possible to tell children who Jesus is without any other overlay of religious doctrine, since that is the way I was taught.
They could sing, "Jesus loves the little children," instead of "Obama loves the little children" or "Allah is God."
They could learn to read from the Book of Proverbs, or the Christmas story from the Book of Mark. And, if any parent didn't like the idea, they could give their input, like you just did, on how they would like to see it changed, and opt out of the program if they wished. Opting out is not something that is allowed now to the parents of the kindergarteners who are being taught about homosexual marriage in these same school systems, by the way.
Lexington, Mass., father of 6-year-old arrested, spends night in jail over objections to homosexual curriculum in son's kindergarten class.
"Because of the same-sex marriage law people are treating this as a mandate to teach the youngest of children."
- David Parker, parent of 6-year-old, arrested Apr. 27, 2005
http://www.massresistance.org/docs/parker/main.html
One option is homeschool. If its the Lords will He will make a way financially. I'm training as a primary school teacher at the moment. I personally like that my child will go through our school system gaining a broad knowledge of other faiths and life styles. I think that it will make him a well rounded person who can find common ground with all sorts of people. I will put all he learns into the context of our faith when he gets home. But I hope that given all the facts he will be able to make his own mind up to follow the Lord one day and also be able to share his faith with people in a non judgemental loving way.
I think that one of the reasons that Jesus drew people to Him the way He did was because He really knew people. He'd seen it all before. I think its part of being in the world but not of it.
If we wont the freedom to tell children about Jesus in classes we have to tell them about Allah too. Its part of living in a multi faith country. But one is seeds and one is just words.
QuoteIf we wont the freedom to tell children about Jesus in classes we have to tell them about Allah too. Its part of living in a multi faith country. But one is seeds and one is just words.
I totally disagree with you. These are little children, not college students taking a comparative religion course. If you happen to have some different demographic, then parents could separate the children according to the parents wishes. But in most cases, you will find a completely Christian classroom being
forced to learn about Ramadan and Kwaanza [whatever that is--ask me if I care], and that is something that when you do it to young children, you are indoctrinating them to see either all religions as equal or all religions as nonsense.
Remember the goal here--the government is God. Ask Chairman Mao.
"Give me a child for for his first seven years and I'll give you the man"
You could teach a child about Jesus every day of their school career and they might never know him. The facts of the matter are just words until the Holy Spirit reveals the truth. By teaching children religious tolerance it doesn't mean they will never know the Lord, he draws who He choses and it doesn't matter what they were taught in school. A person's education has no bearing on whether the Holy Spirit gives them a revalation and that is the only way they will ever really know who Jesus is.
Chairman Mao decided there was black and white, a right and a wrong answer. Is that what you want in schools. The right answer is taught and the wrong answer ignored or ridiculed. Who gets to decide what is right and wrong?
QuoteWho gets to decide what is right and wrong?
The Christian majority as long as it lasts, which right now is looking like around 20 years in Europe and maybe 40 in America. When there is no longer a Christian majority in your country, then you will see what the face of intolerance really looks like, because I can guarantee you, they are not teaching comparative religion to children in the Muslim countries.
The thing is, there didn't used to be a debate. Even (especially) our founders recognized the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and JESUS. I believe anyone with another POV should still be treated respectfully, but I have no problem at all with a society based truly on Jehovah God. That's what God Himself chose for Israel, while they demanded a king - and what He will institute again as His Divine Government. A minority has chipped away at "In God We Trust", and along with the lies of satan and our own apathy, it has been allowed to happen - and God has allowed us to "have our king" - temporarily, until He steps in and fixes it. Even with what may look like a mess, I'm one that believes God works all things after the counsel of His will and He has not lost control. We're watching for deliverance and for "all the nations to be blessed". There is a process of God becoming All in All, every knee bowing and every tongue confessing, and yesterday, today, and tomorrow are all a part of that process. The darkness comes before the dawn.
As a related aside, we homeschooled both our children from kindergarten on (except for 1 semester with our daughter) so that we could have more say in their belief system - they are not brainwashed, in fact, far from it, as they both are very independent, critical thinkers including being very open to UR.
Obviously as a christian I want God's Kingdom to come on this earth, I want Him to be the leader. Unfortunately we're living in a fallen world. I'm a realist. I would like and I pray for Christ's return then there really will be no debate. But until that day we have to live in this world. I'm not saying, so lets give up but I wonder if America is a christian country today. Christ says we are like salt. That speaks to me of a small amount. I think its more likely that there are a minority of real christians out there.
I dont think we bring God's kingdom by having a christian government. If that worked then the US would see an increase in believers not the decrease they have seen (If you were founded on christian principles). The kingdom isn't the gov. Its us, the believers.
Still a Christian majority--
Monday, March 9 2009
According to the report, "The percentage of Christians in America, which declined in the 1990s from 86.2 percent to 76.7 percent, has now edged down to 76 percent."
http://www.christianwritingtoday.com/trends/151-christianity-declining-in-america.html
Nat, maybe you misunderstand what I'm saying, or what I said is too vague. I'm not saying this is done by man's ways or by man's revolt. As far as a "Christian government not working", again, that was God's design for Israel (a Godly government) - they rebelled. I believe if we pursue godliness, humble ourselves before Him, turn from our wicked ways, God will hear from heaven and find more salt to use to preserve things with ("will the Son of Man find the faith on earth when He comes?"). I believe if I (and those around me) spend all my time spitting in His face (as opposed to seeking His face) then that's likely to bring more consequences of evil and increase the falling away. Began here in earnest in the 1960's.
From my personal experience people tend to think of Christian as white British, sort of as apposed to muslim or sikh or something. But obviously I hope that they are all true belivers with a relationship with Christ!!
Quote from: jabcat on December 19, 2009, 01:51:41 AM
Nat, maybe you misunderstand what I'm saying, or what I said is too vague. I'm not saying this is done by man's ways or by man's revolt. However, I believe if we pursue godliness, humble ourselves before Him, turn from our wicked ways, God will hear from heaven and find more salt to use to preserve things with ("will the Son of Man find the faith on earth when He comes?"). I believe if I (and those around me) spend all my time spitting in His face (as opposed to seeking His face) then that's likely to bring more consequences of evil and increase the falling away. Began here in earnest in the 1960's.
I agree with this. Although I see the salt thing differently. Its not to preserve but to change. By putting salt on food it makes the food take on a salt taste, it changes the food. In the same way when jesus talks about light. The light changes the darkness into light. So salt and light, both changing the things they come into contact with to become the same as them. So we are salt and light. We change our surroundings and it starts at home. Then our neighbours. If our neighbours become salt they change their neighbours. Thats how the kingdom will come. Not through having a religious gov.
In the UK and USA we have long christian histories and we are facing national spiritual stagnation. But look at countries like China, they are having a massive spiritual growth!
Most black Americans are Christians. Here's another poll. Should we send this to our Pres who is telling the world we are no longer a Christian nation? Clearly, he is uninformed.
Poll: Most Americans Say They're Christian
Varies Greatly From the World at Large
Analysis
By Gary Langer
July 18 — Ask Americans their religion and you'll get an earful — 50 individual answers in an ABCNEWS/Beliefnet poll, ranging from agnostics to Zen Buddhists. The vast majority, though, have something in common: Jesus Christ.
Eighty-three percent of Americans identify themselves as Christians. Most of the rest, 13 percent, have no religion. That leaves just 4 percent as adherents of all non-Christian religions combined — Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and a smattering of individual mentions.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/beliefnet_poll_010718.html
Those are interesting stats Mol, also like Nat says, hopefully more and more have a true saving relationship with the Savior. I agree, that's where the salt and light come into play, true relationship.
As far as China, exactly! No matter how things look, I still don't believe God has lost control, even "after the fall". The fall didn't catch God off guard or take Him by surprise. :laughing7: It's His plan, and He knows how to work it. :thumbsup: So when God decides He's going to raise up a people (as in China), it's His work and His business. All for His purpose to bring in all mankind. I'm just saying the more each of us seek His face (even though these words can't fully express my thoughts) the "more He has to work with", i.e., revealing Himself in and through us. But in the end, God can use a donkey if he so chooses. No further commentary on that particular statement necessary. :bigGrin:
I agree God has planned everything all along and its all part of His plan. Thats why I think anger towards politicians and things of this world is futile. Love your neighbour and let God deal with the rest.
Have enjoyed this discusion very much. Its so nice to have time to just think about the family business. Off to bed now, night! :cloud9:
Quote from: jabcat on December 19, 2009, 02:08:26 AM
Those are interesting stats Mol, also like Nat says, hopefully more and more have a true saving relationship with the Savior. I agree, that's where the salt and light come into play, true relationship.
As far as China, exactly! No matter how things look, I still don't believe God has lost control, even "after the fall". The fall didn't catch God off guard or take Him by surprise. :laughing7: It's His plan, and He knows how to work it. :thumbsup: So when God decides He's going to raise up a people (as in China), it's His work and His business. All for His purpose to bring in all mankind. I'm just saying the more each of us seek His face (even though these words can't fully express my thoughts) the "more He has to work with", i.e., revealing Himself in and through us. But in the end, God can use a donkey if he so chooses. No further commentary on that particular statement necessary. :bigGrin:
:laughhand: Don't you love God's sense of humour? :LH:
EE-AW, EE-AW :bigGrin:
It's a Climategate Christmas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpQXY4tWaoI&
Merry Hyatt, Crusader for Christmas Carols
SAN FRANCISCO (Dec. 22) -- Attention, all ye faithful: Merry Hyatt has a plan to bring Christmas carols into the lives of school children.
The substitute teacher in Redding, Calif., says she is tired of working in schools where students aren't allowed to sing Christmas songs that are religious in nature. So she's sponsoring a ballot initiative that would require all public schools in California to give children the opportunity to sing or listen to Christmas carols.
"For years and years, maybe one person has been able to ruin it for an entire school," Hyatt said. "It's not right. I think it's the majority's turn."
There is no law in California that prohibits caroling in public schools, said Michael Hersher, deputy general counsel for the California Department of Education. In fact, many school choirs perform religiously oriented music, including Christmas carols, during holiday concerts. But some schools find it simpler to maintain the separation of church and state by excluding all religious material.
Hyatt, 61, says she proposed the initiative because of her experience as a substitute teacher in Riverside County in Southern California, where she says she was told not to bring carols -- or any discussion of Jesus -- into the classroom.
"It's sad and it's wrong to have a Christmas party and not mention Jesus," said Hyatt, who recently moved 600 miles north to Redding. "It's his birthday."
http://www.sphere.com/
THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
OPINION EUROPE
DECEMBER 8, 2009, 7:20 P.M. ET
The Tip of the Climategate Iceberg
The global-warming scandal is bigger than one email leak.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704342404574576683216723794.html
Global Warming theory--Purpose--Control of every aspect of people's lives all over the world--Jesse Ventura seeks to find out who is behind the global warming movement--an unholy collusion between government, scientists, and businessmen as a way to gain control and make tons of money--a nucleus which can be grown into a world government--the World Conservation Bank--Edmund de Rothschild--one bank, one currency, one world government--
A mystery solved in four parts--
This is part one--of four parts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igg79pqfT08&feature=related
1 Timothy 6:10
For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
A man named Brother Nathanael Kapner a former Jew who converted from Judaism to the Christian faith, has much insight and things to say on this subject of the ground workings that was laid that attempts to lead to a world Government like what Orwells 1984 was pointing to, dsired by those who would like to see those things come to power imposed status because they desire to be on the controling side of this., read Brother Nathanael Kapners testimony sometime, or maybe you already have, he also has a home page called Real Zionist news, check it out if interested.
Personaly I may not agree with everything he says, but mostly I do know he has much more insight into the workings of Zionism because of having been a former Jew than I'd ever hope to have, that knowledge means nothing to me other than to recognize the spirit behind it for what it is, on a social corporate level it does point out the religious/political battles and the PR propaganda manipulation that are taking place in this world we live in.
Peace,
Fire Walker
Alaska businessmen unveil new Frozen Gore
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE - January 4, 2010
www.frozengore.com
New "Interactive" Al Gore Ice Sculpture to be unveiled in Fairbanks, AK
Fairbanks, AK- In an ongoing effort to attract Former Vice President Al Gore to come to Fairbanks and debate his man-made global warming theories, a unique interactive ice sculpture will be unveiled Tuesday, January 5th in downtown Fairbanks.
The new sculpture, a 6' tall, 4,000 lb, likeness of Mr. Gore will be uncovered at the corner of Airport Road and Cushman Street next to Thrifty Liquor. This year the carving features an audio dub of Mr. Gore's Dec. 2009 Copenhagen speech suggesting the entire Polar Ice cap will likely disappear in the next 5 to 7 years, and urging us to upgrade our light bulbs.
As the audio is played, hot air will be emitted from the mouth of the statue, signifying the dangers to the environment of all types of man-made emissions. The source of the hot air will be the Ford F-350 flatbed truck on which the sculpture sits, with a 2" hose from the tailpipe of the vehicle, through a hole bored in the back of the head of the carving, and pumped out through the mouth of the statue. Local businessmen Craig Compeau and Rudy Gavora commissioned the frozen artwork, by world class sculptor Steve Dean.
"We're not giving up easy", Compeau told onlookers as the statue was receiving its final touches Sunday evening. "We invited Mr. Gore to Fairbanks last January (one of the coldest in decades) to debate his planet-melting theories. His people responded via email, that although Mr. Gore would love to attend, there was a scheduling conflict." Compeau was confused by the response since he had not suggested any specific date or time.
Locals are welcome to stop by and get their photos taken with the artwork at any time of day, although the frigid temperature may keep them away, or cause cameras to freeze up. Temperatures in Interior Alaska have recently fallen to the -30 to -40F range.
In conjunction with the release of the new statue, Compeau has incorporated a "Local Warming" contest that will raise money to provide warm winter clothing for homeless Fairbanks residents. The contest asks participants to estimate how many hours the Ford F-350 would have to run (at idle) to equal the carbon output of a round-trip visit from Tennessee to Copenhagen aboard a Lear jet. The winner will receive a warm Ski-doo winter jacket, long underwear, thermal socks, and an Al Gore Bobblehead doll.
"Tortured for Christ"
[In case anyone has romantic notions about the communists]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqdPkDPMCwk
I am not quite sure how we got to this point where one political team is the good "Christian" team and the other team is the bad "heathen" team. Personally, I think our government is pretty equal opportunity when it comes to corruption and deception, with neither Republicans nor Democrats holding a monopoly. Some politicians know the right words to say to Christians, but their actions do not always reflect a real spirit of Christ. If you believe that one side is good and the other evil, I am afraid you are deceived. I'm not sure that one side is even *less* evil than the other.
Who is in control? God is. It is silly of us to try to create or destroy a government because we think we know best what the world needs. God knows what we need, and He will provide it. Even if we live in evil times, I trust that He is in control. Besides that, all of us on this site are quite well acquainted with what "law" does to people. Laws geared toward "making" us "act" Christian will fail, because they do not address the evil in our hearts. For example, abortion is not *caused* by the fact that abortion is legal. There are many other complicated causes, going back to our fallen state and people's broken hearts. If we're serious, as Christians, about stopping abortion, we need to dig deeper than Roe v. Wade. God can do anything -- He can end abortion *in spite* of Roe v. Wade. We don't need a Christian government to do great things in this country. God doesn't let silly things like human laws stop Him from doing great things, and we shouldn't either. What a victory for God if we could reduce the abortion rate to almost nothing even while it is legal!
Jesus said that even wanting to murder someone is as sinful as murdering them. Are we going to, now, make it illegal to want to murder someone silently in your mind? Now that is 1984. Laws can't make us righteous. Sin goes deeper than laws can reach.
Polls don't mean much to me either. I grew up in a really homogeneous community where almost anyone would claim to be Christian just to fit in, or because they were afraid admitting they weren't Christian would send them to hell. There are so many different definitions of being "Christian" -- so many denominations with different definitions of the word -- that how people identify themselves isn't that significant. Even Christians are broken, troubled, and imperfect.
Is global warming real? Time will tell. But as a Christian, I know what my attitude toward the environment should be because the Bible tells me how to treat God's gifts. Even if global warming isn't real, does that excuse our throwing tons and tons of resources into landfills when they still have usable potential? We throw enough aluminum into landfills every year to make 6,000 large passenger jets! Even if there is no threat to our planet or to ourselves, is this an appropriate attitude toward the wonderful things God has given us? Is amassing material belongings -- like an SUV to carry one person to the shopping mall -- what God intended us to do with this earth? If we are good stewards of what God has given us, global warming will become a non-issue. We are called to be motivated not by this world but by the Kingdom of God. I don't take care of the earth because Al Gore or any other human being tells me do, but because I believe it is the *right thing* to do.
The bottom line is that the church itself is broken and in a fallen state. I stopped going to a church that mishandled money to accomplish the pastor's personal agenda, threatened people with hell, lied to the congregation, manipulated older people into giving to particular funds, etc. If the government were run by my church, or any church, could we really call this a big improvement? Like most of you, I look forward to the day that righteousness will rule the land -- I just don't think that will happen until mankind has been entirely redeemed.
I fail to see how any of the debate going on in this thread glorifies God or furthers our message of salvation. It seems like many people here are stoking controversy for controversy's sake, when God has already has the last word on the issue.
Quote from: natcat86 on December 19, 2009, 02:11:15 AM
I agree God has planned everything all along and its all part of His plan. Thats why I think anger towards politicians and things of this world is futile. Love your neighbour and let God deal with the rest.
AMEN! :icon_flower:
And amen to your awsome post Kimberlaina :icon_flower:
Quote from: Kimberlaina on January 11, 2010, 12:38:34 AM
I am not quite sure how we got to this point where one political team is the good "Christian" team and the other team is the bad "heathen" team. Personally, I think our government is pretty equal opportunity when it comes to corruption and deception, with neither Republicans nor Democrats holding a monopoly. Some politicians know the right words to say to Christians, but their actions do not always reflect a real spirit of Christ. If you believe that one side is good and the other evil, I am afraid you are deceived. I'm not sure that one side is even *less* evil than the other.
Who is in control? God is. It is silly of us to try to create or destroy a government because we think we know best what the world needs. God knows what we need, and He will provide it. Even if we live in evil times, I trust that He is in control. Besides that, all of us on this site are quite well acquainted with what "law" does to people. Laws geared toward "making" us "act" Christian will fail, because they do not address the evil in our hearts. For example, abortion is not *caused* by the fact that abortion is legal. There are many other complicated causes, going back to our fallen state and people's broken hearts. If we're serious, as Christians, about stopping abortion, we need to dig deeper than Roe v. Wade. God can do anything -- He can end abortion *in spite* of Roe v. Wade. We don't need a Christian government to do great things in this country. God doesn't let silly things like human laws stop Him from doing great things, and we shouldn't either. What a victory for God if we could reduce the abortion rate to almost nothing even while it is legal!
Jesus said that even wanting to murder someone is as sinful as murdering them. Are we going to, now, make it illegal to want to murder someone silently in your mind? Now that is 1984. Laws can't make us righteous. Sin goes deeper than laws can reach.
Polls don't mean much to me either. I grew up in a really homogeneous community where almost anyone would claim to be Christian just to fit in, or because they were afraid admitting they weren't Christian would send them to hell. There are so many different definitions of being "Christian" -- so many denominations with different definitions of the word -- that how people identify themselves isn't that significant. Even Christians are broken, troubled, and imperfect.
Is global warming real? Time will tell. But as a Christian, I know what my attitude toward the environment should be because the Bible tells me how to treat God's gifts. Even if global warming isn't real, does that excuse our throwing tons and tons of resources into landfills when they still have usable potential? We throw enough aluminum into landfills every year to make 6,000 large passenger jets! Even if there is no threat to our planet or to ourselves, is this an appropriate attitude toward the wonderful things God has given us? Is amassing material belongings -- like an SUV to carry one person to the shopping mall -- what God intended us to do with this earth? If we are good stewards of what God has given us, global warming will become a non-issue. We are called to be motivated not by this world but by the Kingdom of God. I don't take care of the earth because Al Gore or any other human being tells me do, but because I believe it is the *right thing* to do.
The bottom line is that the church itself is broken and in a fallen state. I stopped going to a church that mishandled money to accomplish the pastor's personal agenda, threatened people with hell, lied to the congregation, manipulated older people into giving to particular funds, etc. If the government were run by my church, or any church, could we really call this a big improvement? Like most of you, I look forward to the day that righteousness will rule the land -- I just don't think that will happen until mankind has been entirely redeemed.
I fail to see how any of the debate going on in this thread glorifies God or furthers our message of salvation. It seems like many people here are stoking controversy for controversy's sake, when God has already has the last word on the issue.
K, You might appreciate this article... http://www.savior-of-all.com/republican.html
It is entitled "God is Not a Republican". The man who wrote it is a Christian universalist and works closely with the military (Air Force, I believe), but as a civilian.
State Department Admits: Detroit Christmas Bomber Was Deliberately Allowed to Keep US Entry Visa, Board His Flight
Webster G. Tarpley
TARPLEY.net
February 10, 2010
The Detroit Christmas bomber was deliberately and intentionally allowed to keep his US entry visa as the result of a national security override issued by an as yet unknown US intelligence or law-enforcement agency with the goal of blocking the State Department's planned revocation of that visa. This is the result of hearings held on January 27 before the House Homeland Security Committee, and in particular of the testimony of Patrick F. Kennedy, Undersecretary of State for Management. The rickety US government official version of the December 25 Detroit underwear bomber incident, which has been jerry-built over the past month and a half, has now totally collapsed, and key elements of the terrorism-spawning rogue network inside US agencies and departments are unusually vulnerable to a determined campaign of exposure.
These developments decisively confirm the analysis offered by the present writer in a Dec. 28, 2009 television interview on Russia Today.1 On that occasion, my estimate was that Mutallab was a protected patsy being used by rogue elements of the US intelligence community for the deliberate and intentional creation of a high profile incident with the goal of obtaining a large-scale political effect. On January 4, Richard Wolffe reported on the MSNBC Countdown program that the Obama White House was investigating whether the Detroit Christmas incident had been "intentionally" created by an intelligence network with an "alternative agenda."2 It was in this report that Wolffe posed the alternative of "cock-up or conspiracy."3 Unfortunately, Obama opted for the screw-up version on January 5.
Based on what was already known a few days after this incident, it was clear that normal screening and surveillance procedures had been scrapped and aborted in order to allow the youthful patsy Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab of Nigeria to board his flight from Amsterdam in the Netherlands to Detroit. Mutallab's father, a rich, well known, and reputable Nigerian banker had gone to the US Embassy in his country and formally warned a State Department official as well as a CIA representative that his son was in Yemen and in all probability consorting with terrorists. Under normal circumstances, this report alone would have been more than enough to get Mutallab's US visa revoked in the same way he had already been denied entry to Great Britain. He also would normally have been placed on the no-fly list, thus setting up two insuperable obstacles to getting on his Detroit bound flight and winging off to produce an incident which caused several weeks of public hysteria in this country, completely with demands for body scanners in airports. In addition, the US intelligence community had reports that a Nigerian was training with the purported "Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula" in Yemen. Obama had called a December 22 meeting with top CIA, FBI, and DHS officials because of reports of a terrorist attack looming during the Christmas holiday.
The January 27 hearings of the House Homeland Security Committee were also addressed by Michael Leiter, the AWOL Director of the National Counterterrorism Center, along with Jane Holl Lute, the Deputy Secretary of Homeland Security, who was sent in place of HHS Secretary Janet Napolitano, who boycotted the hearings. But the important testimony came from Kennedy, whose responsibilities include Consular Services, and therefore visas. In his opening statement, Kennedy offered a tortured circumlocution to describe what had happened. Attempting to head off the question of why the State Department had not revoked Mutallab's visa, Kennedy stated:
"We will use revocation authority prior to interagency consultation in circumstances where we believe there is an immediate threat. Revocation is an important tool in our border security arsenal. At the same time, expeditious coordination with our national security partners is not to be underestimated. There have been numerous cases where our unilateral and uncoordinated revocation would have disrupted important investigations that were underway by one of our national security partners. They had the individual under investigation and our revocation action would have disclosed the U.S. Government's interest in the individual and ended our colleagues' ability to quietly pursue the case and identify terrorists' plans and co-conspirators." 4
Undersecretary Kennedy: An Agency Objected to Revoking Visa
Not surprisingly, House Homeland Security Chairman Bennie Thompson (D-MS) wanted to know what that really meant. Here is his exchange with Undersecretary Kennedy:
REP. THOMPSON: Okay. So — all right. So he has a visa. So what does that do? In the process, does it revoke the visa? Does it —
MR. KENNEDY: We — as I mentioned in my statement, Mr. Chairman, if we unilaterally revoked a visa — and there was a case recently up — we have a request from a law enforcement agency to not revoke the visa. We came across information; we said this is a dangerous person. We were ready to revoke the visa. We then went to the community and said, should we revoke this visa? And one of the members — and we'd be glad to give you that out of — in private — said, please do not revoke this visa. We have eyes on this person. We are following this person who has the visa for the purpose of trying roll up an entire network, not just stop one person. So we will revoke the visa of any individual who is a threat to the United States, but we do take one preliminary step. We ask our law enforcement and intelligence community partners, do you have eyes on this person, and so you want us to let this person proceed under your surveillance so that you may potentially break a larger plot?
REP. THOMPSON: Well, I think that the point that I'm trying to get at is, is this just another box you're checking, or is that some security value to add in that box, to the list?
MR. KENNEDY: The intelligence and law enforcement community tell us that they believe in certain cases that there's a higher value of them following this person so they can find his or her co-conspirators and roll up an entire plot against the United States, rather than simply knock out one soldier in that effort.5
What Kennedy is saying is that the established bureaucratic routine calls for the State Department to inquire of the other intelligence and law enforcement agencies that compose the US intelligence community whether they have any objection to the lifting of a visa. In this case, reports Kennedy, there was such an objection from at least one agency, based on their contention that Mutallab was under intensive scrutiny as part of an operation which might lead to the discovery and arrest of far bigger fish. We should also notice that Kennedy is extremely reluctant to speak before the committee in public session about exactly which intelligence or law-enforcement agency this was, and that the members of the committee do not demand an immediate straight answer. Perhaps Kennedy told them later, behind the closed doors of a secret executive session. But after weeks of hysteria, the public has a right to know.
Classic Use of National Security Override to Protect A Patsy
What we see here is a classic example of the use of a national security override on the part of subversive moles who are performing their most basic responsibility of protecting a patsy by preventing him from being arrested or otherwise interfered with until that patsy can perform his assigned task and produce the desired incident, with the goal of inducing an intensive political response in the form of a wave of public hysteria. With this method, the name of the patsy is in effect flagged in all the relevant databases with the notation that this person is the target of an ongoing investigation which cannot be interfered with because of overriding national security concerns. This means that the patsy in question is immune to arrest by traffic cops, airport and border officials, or any other law enforcement official. The patsy is untouchable — until of course the terrorist provocation has been carried out.
Various alleged 9/11 figures operated for extended periods of time inside the US, evidently under the cover of such national security overrides. How did the accused 19 9/11 hijackers enter and leave this country, obtain visas, rent apartments, acquire checking accounts and credit cards, obtain driver's licenses, register vehicles, rent cars, attend flight schools, and repeatedly fly on US domestic airlines? How did they escape arrest for traffic violations, which some of them committed? The answer is in all likelihood that they had been made untouchable to ordinary law enforcement because their names had been flagged with national security overrides which made them immune to arrest for routine infractions or because their names appeared on watch lists and similar databases.
Congressman Michael McCaul (R-TX) returned to this sensitive issue in his questioning of Undersecretary Kennedy, leading to the following exchange:
REP. MCCAUL: Well, I think there needs to be a lot better coordination going on here between these two entities. And Mr. Kennedy, why given the information that you had, why wasn't the VISA revoked?
MR. KENNEDY: Sir, as I mentioned earlier, when we get any information, when anyone appears at an American embassy and they say that they have doubts about someone, we immediately generate what is called a visa VIPER message. We sent that to the entire law enforcement and intelligence —
REP. MCCAUL: My problem — I understand the process. But you had this information, and you didn't revoke the VISA.
MR. KENNEDY: Because —
REP. MCCAUL: I mean the cable I just read makes it pretty clear that this man is associated with extremists in Yemen, and you didn't revoke his VISA.
MR. KENNEDY: What it was, sir, is his father said he was associated with this. And so we then asked the intelligence and law enforcement communities if they have any other information. I don't want to take much of your time, and I'd glad to visit with you afterwards. 6
We note again the tremendous reticence of Undersecretary Kennedy in getting into the details of how the national security override was issued in the case of Mutallab's visa. Kennedy suggests he will explain it all to the Congressman in private, but not in the full glare of public opinion were his words will end up on the Federal News transcript.
Demand to Know Who Let Mutallab Keep His Visa
Instead, it is imperative for the preservation of democratic institutions that the full details be known of how the State Department was prevented from revoking Mutallab's visa. We want to know which agency demanded that Mutallab not be interfered with. We want to know the names and posts held by the officials who issued the override of the State Department's proposal. We want these officials fired. We want these officials thoroughly investigated. We want them to appear before public congressional hearings. We want them to be the targets of civil suits by airlines and other interested parties. We want to find out the nature of any privately controlled intelligence networks to which they may belong. Such an investigation may well lead outside of the United States, and most particularly to the United Kingdom. Mutallab comes from Nigeria, a former British colony. He spent several years in London, the site of MI-6's Londonistan school for Islamic fundamentalist extremist patsies and fanatics, where he was apparently radicalized. Mutallab was then you sheep dipped into Yemen, another former British colony, where he was placed in contact with Awlaki the CIA lackey, a notorious double agent and agent provocateur. Given the fact that Mutallab was operating outside of this US, the CIA is an obvious suspect, but not the only one.
There is every reason to conclude that the rogue network of moles operating inside US intelligence — otherwise known as the invisible government or shadow government — knew that Mutallab was coming, knew that he would be carrying a device resembling a bomb, and wanted him to enter the skies over Detroit. (Whether Mutallab's handlers thought they were giving him a bomb that would actually go off is a separate question.) They did all this because they sincerely wanted a major terrorist provocation of the US population, designed to unleash waves of Islamophobic hysteria that would be useful for the support of ongoing operations in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, and quite possibly against Iran.
Not Body Scanners, But Mole Detectors at CIA and FBI
Earlier commentaries on this incident had alleged a failure to connect the dots. As it now transpires, the dots were evidently connected by the State Department, but their action was blocked by an override issued by another agency. Another popular cover story for the failure of screening and surveillance on Christmas between Amsterdam and Detroit was that Mutallab's name had been misspelled when entered into the relevant antiterrorist database. Kennedy conceded in his testimony that one such data entry was misspelled, but another one was entered accurately. All of this needs to be viewed with great skepticism.
Apart from these details, it should be clear to all that the official US account of the Detroit Christmas incident has now been completely refuted. We do not need body scanners at airports. We need mole detectors installed at the CIA, FBI, DIA, NSA, State Department, NCTC, and the National Security Council. The urgent necessity is now to find out precisely who issued a critical override that allowed Mutallab to keep his visa and board his flight to Detroit. Pull on that thread and revelations might well follow that lead back to the networks behind 9/11, Iran Contra, and much else. Political forces friendly to Obama have tended to see this case as staged in order to embarrass the tenant of the White House. These forces should now demand immediate congressional hearings into the allegations contained in Undersecretary Kennedy's testimony.
http://tarpley.net/2010/02/11/state-department-admits-detroit-christmas-bomber-was-deliberately-allowed-to-keep-us-entry-visa-board-his-flight/
Intelligence chief acknowledges U.S. may target Americans involved in terrorism
»
By Ellen Nakashima
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, February 4, 2010
Director of National Intelligence Dennis C. Blair acknowledged Wednesday that government agencies may kill U.S. citizens abroad who are involved in terrorist activities if they are "taking action that threatens Americans."
Blair told members of the House intelligence committee that he was speaking publicly about the issue to reassure Americans that intelligence agencies and the Department of Defense "follow a set of defined policy and legal procedures that are very carefully observed" in the use of lethal force against U.S. citizens.
Blair's unusually frank remarks come as the issue of targeting Americans for lethal action has attracted more notice. As the United States steps up its campaign against suspected terrorists overseas, it has become more apparent that some extremists may be U.S. citizens.
The most prominent case to date is that of a U.S.-born cleric, Anwar al-Aulaqi, who lives in Yemen and has been linked to the Army major who allegedly shot and killed 13 people at Fort Hood, Tex., in November, and to the Nigerian accused of attempting to bomb a Northwest Airlines plane on Christmas Day.
Aulaqi is a member of al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, an affiliate of the main al-Qaeda organization, and has been linked to the Fort Hood shooter as well as the Nigerian. He was thought to be meeting with regional al-Qaeda leaders at a compound in Yemen targeted by a Dec. 24 strike. He was not said to be the focus of the strike, and he was not killed. But U.S. officials said at the time that they thought he might have been killed.
"I just don't want Americans who are watching this to think that we are careless about endangering -- in fact, we're not careless about endangering American lives as we try to carry out the policies to protect most of the country," Blair said at the annual threat briefing before the panel. He did not specifically refer to the targeting of Aulaqi.
In response to questions from Rep. Peter Hoekstra (R-Mich.), the panel's ranking Republican, Blair said: "We take direct action against terrorists in the intelligence community. If that direct action, we think that direct action will involve killing an American, we get specific permission to do that."
Hoekstra pressed for clarification of the policy, especially its threshold for targeting Americans for lethal action.
"The concern that I have today is that I'm not sure that . . . [it is] very well understood as to what you and the people in your organization can do when it comes to Americans who have joined the enemy," Hoekstra told Blair.
The director of national intelligence said the factors that "primarily" weigh on the decision to target an American include "whether that American is involved in a group that is trying to attack us, whether that American is a threat to other Americans."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/03/AR2010020303968.html
<< Philippians 3:20 >>
Weymouth New Testament
We, however, are free citizens of Heaven, and we are waiting with longing expectation for the coming from Heaven of a Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ,
Everyday is fiiled with hope...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=X43XXpItGk0
Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.
--US Constitution, Bill of Rights
This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.
--US Constitution, Article VI
Does anyone has some info about the northern light seen above Washington a few hows before the snowstorm?
It Is Now Official: The U.S. Is a Police State
by Paul Craig Roberts
Americans have been losing the protection of law for years. In the 21st century the loss of legal protections accelerated with the Bush administration's "war on terror," which continues under the Obama administration and is essentially a war on the Constitution and U.S. civil liberties.
The Bush regime was determined to vitiate habeas corpus in order to hold people indefinitely without bringing charges. The regime had acquired hundreds of prisoners by paying a bounty for "terrorists." Afghan warlords and thugs responded to the financial incentive by grabbing unprotected people and selling them to the Americans.
The Bush regime needed to hold the prisoners without charges because it had no evidence against the people and did not want to admit that the U.S. government had stupidly paid warlords and thugs to kidnap innocent people. In addition, the Bush regime needed "terrorists" prisoners in order to prove that there was a terrorist threat.
As there was no evidence against the "detainees" (most have been released without charges after years of detention and abuse), the U.S. government needed a way around U.S. and international laws against torture in order that the government could produce evidence via self-incrimination. The Bush regime found inhumane and totalitarian-minded lawyers and put them to work at the U.S. Department of Justice (sic) to invent arguments that the Bush regime did not need to obey the law.
The Bush regime created a new classification for its detainees that it used to justify denying legal protection and due process to the detainees. As the detainees were not U.S. citizens and were demonized by the regime as "the 760 most dangerous men on earth," there was little public outcry over the regime's unconstitutional and inhumane actions.
As our Founding Fathers and a long list of scholars warned, once civil liberties are breached, they are breached for all. Soon U.S. citizens were being held indefinitely in violation of their habeas corpus rights. Dr. Aafia Siddiqui an American citizen of Pakistani origin might have been the first.
Dr. Siddiqui, a scientist educated at MIT and Brandeis University, was seized in Pakistan for no known reason, sent to Afghanistan, and was held secretly for five years in the U.S. military's notorious Bagram prison in Afghanistan. Her three young children were with her at the time she was abducted, one an eight-month old baby. She has no idea what has become of her two youngest children. Her oldest child, 7 years old, was also incarcerated in Bagram and subjected to similar abuse and horrors.
Siddiqui has never been charged with any terrorism-related offense. A British journalist, hearing her piercing screams as she was being tortured, disclosed her presence. An embarrassed U.S. government responded to the disclosure by sending Siddiqui to the U.S. for trial on the trumped-up charge that while a captive, she grabbed a U.S. soldier's rifle and fired two shots attempting to shoot him. The charge apparently originated as a U.S. soldier's excuse for shooting Dr. Siddiqui twice in the stomach resulting in her near death.
On February 4, Dr. Siddiqui was convicted by a New York jury for attempted murder. The only evidence presented against her was the charge itself and an unsubstantiated claim that she had once taken a pistol-firing course at an American firing range. No evidence was presented of her fingerprints on the rifle that this frail and broken 100-pound woman had allegedly seized from an American soldier. No evidence was presented that a weapon was fired, no bullets, no shell casings, no bullet holes. Just an accusation.
Wikipedia has this to say about the trial: "The trial took an unusual turn when an FBI official asserted that the fingerprints taken from the rifle, which was purportedly used by Aafia to shoot at the U.S. interrogators, did not match hers."
An ignorant and bigoted American jury convicted her for being a Muslim. This is the kind of "justice" that always results when the state hypes fear and demonizes a group.
The people who should have been on trial are the people who abducted her, disappeared her young children, shipped her across international borders, violated her civil liberties, tortured her apparently for the fun of it, raped her, and attempted to murder her with two gunshots to her stomach. Instead, the victim was put on trial and convicted.
This is the unmistakable hallmark of a police state. And this victim is an American citizen.
Anyone can be next. Indeed, on February 3 Dennis Blair, director of National Intelligence told the House Intelligence Committee that it was now "defined policy" that the U.S. government can murder its own citizens on the sole basis of someone in the government's judgment that an American is a threat. No arrest, no trial, no conviction, just execution on suspicion of being a threat.
This shows how far the police state has advanced. A presidential appointee in the Obama administration tells an important committee of Congress that the executive branch has decided that it can murder American citizens abroad if it thinks they are a threat.
I can hear readers saying the government might as well kill Americans abroad as it kills them at home – Waco, Ruby Ridge, the Black Panthers.
Yes, the U.S. government has murdered its citizens, but Dennis Blair's "defined policy" is a bold new development. The government, of course, denies that it intended to kill the Branch Davidians, Randy Weaver's wife and child, or the Black Panthers. The government says that Waco was a terrible tragedy, an unintended result brought on by the Branch Davidians themselves. The government says that Ruby Ridge was Randy Weaver's fault for not appearing in court on a day that had been miscommunicated to him, The Black Panthers, the government says, were dangerous criminals who insisted on a shoot-out.
In no previous death of a U.S. citizen by the hands of the U.S. government has the government claimed the right to kill Americans without arrest, trial, and conviction of a capital crime.
In contrast, Dennis Blair has told the U.S. Congress that the executive branch has assumed the right to murder Americans who it deems a "threat."
What defines "threat"? Who will make the decision? What it means is that the government will murder whomever it chooses.
There is no more complete or compelling evidence of a police state than the government announcing that it will murder its own citizens if it views them as a "threat."
Ironic, isn't it, that "the war on terror" to make us safe ends in a police state with the government declaring the right to murder American citizens who it regards as a threat.
February 10, 2010
http://www.lewrockwell.com/roberts/roberts279.html (http://www.lewrockwell.com/roberts/roberts279.html)
QuoteIronic, isn't it, that "the war on terror" to make us safe ends in a police state with the government declaring the right to murder American citizens who it regards as a threat.
Some would argue that it is not irony, but that it was always the intent. This 'war on terror' allows them to effectively destroy our Bill of Rights which has been a terror to the globalists since the day it was written. Our Constitution makes each American citizen a sovereign, with God given rights that cannot be abridged or denied. We need to demand a repeal of the 'Patriot Act' and all other laws that would place citizens at the mercy of a government gone out of control--military tribunal acts, denying habeas corpus, whatever Constitution-busting laws they have enacted since 911. And, we need to demand an open and thorough investigation of 911, under subpoena, with protection for whistleblowers, with real science, that will satisfy the families of the victims and the American public. Otherwise, we are looking at another 40 years of JFK assassination nonsense--where the evidence was deliberately hidden, destroyed, and misstated--or worse. A free society, just like a healthy family, cannot live with dysfunctional secrets, or any secrets at all.
A Bill of Rights is what the people are entitled to against every government, and what no just government should refuse, or rest on inference. --Thomas Jefferson
If anyone thinks that George Bush is the 1st president that has abused the Constitution then they need to look at history a bit more. He was just another in a LONG line.
Yep, it already started (long before) cowboy Ronnie.
Then it makes it even more remarkable that they have never fully succeeded. Does each generation have to rediscover for itself the precious gift of liberty given by God? And learn how to fight within the parameters of their own history to preserve it? Is this what the 1000 year reign of Christ looks like? Dark forces surrounding a city of light but always, finally, held at bay?
"All this will not be finished in the first 100 days, nor in the first one thousand days, nor in the life of this administration. Nor even perhaps in our lifetime on this planet. But let us begin."
--John F. Kennedy, Inaugural address
Quote from: Molly on February 17, 2010, 10:42:09 AM
Then it makes it even more remarkable that they have never fully succeeded. Does each generation have to rediscover for itself the precious gift of liberty given by God? And learn how to fight within the parameters of their own history to preserve it? Is this what the 1000 year reign of Christ looks like? Dark forces surrounding a city of light but always, finally, held at bay?
maybe this is exactly how "the overcomers" are chosen from each generation to one day rule with Christ in the age to come?
all of humanity given a chance to choose the Kingdom or Babylon
11 Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.
--Eph 5
3 Call to me and I will answer you, and will tell you great and hidden things that you have not known.
--Jer 33
he gives wisdom to the wise
and knowledge to those who have understanding;
22 He explains deep and hidden things.
He knows what happens in the darkest places.
And where he is, everything is light.
--Dan 2
26 "So don't be afraid of your enemies. Everything that is secret will be brought out into the open. Everything that is hidden will be uncovered. 27 What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight. What is whispered in your ear, shout from the rooftops.
--Mat 10
Of the world's 100 largest economic entities, 51 are now corporations and 49 are countries.
December 2000
GDP / sales ($mil)
1 United States 8,708,870.00
2 Japan 4,395,083.00
3 Germany 2,081,202.00
4 France 1,410,262.00
5 United Kingdom 1,373,612.00
6 Italy 1,149,958.00
7 China 1,149,814.00
8 Brazil 760,345.00
9 Canada 612,049.00
10 Spain 562,245.00
11 Mexico 474,951.00
12 India 459,765.00
13 Korea, Rep. 406,940.00
14 Australia 389,691.00
15 Netherlands 384,766.00
16 Russian Federation 375,345.00
17 Argentina 281,942.00
18 Switzerland 260,299.00
19 Belgium 245,706.00
20 Sweden 226,388.00
21 Austria 208,949.00
22 Turkey 188,374.00
23 General Motors 176,558.00
24 Denmark 174,363.00
25 Wal-Mart 166,809.00
26 Exxon Mobil 163,881.00
27 Ford Motor 162,558.00
28 DaimlerChrysler 159,985.70
29 Poland 154,146.00
30 Norway 145,449.00
31 Indonesia 140,964.00
32 South Africa 131,127.00
33 Saudi Arabia 128,892.00
34 Finland 126,130.00
35 Greece 123,934.00
36 Thailand 123,887.00
37 Mitsui 118,555.20
38 Mitsubishi 117,765.60
39 Toyota Motor 115,670.90
40 General Electric 111,630.00
41 Itochu 109,068.90
42 Portugal 107,716.00
43 Royal Dutch/Shell 105,366.00
44 Venezuela 103,918.00
45 Iran, Islamic rep. 101,073.00
46 Israel 99,068.00
47 Sumitomo 95,701.60
48 Nippon Tel & Tel 93,591.70
49 Egypt, Arab Republic 92,413.00
50 Marubeni 91,807.40
51 Colombia 88,596.00
52 AXA 87,645.70
53 IBM 87,548.00
54 Singapore 84,945.00
55 Ireland 84,861.00
56 BP Amoco 83,556.00
57 Citigroup 82,005.00
58 Volkswagen 80,072.70
59 Nippon Life Insurance 78,515.10
60 Philippines 75,350.00
61 Siemens 75,337.00
62 Malaysia 74,634.00
63 Allianz 74,178.20
64 Hitachi 71,858.50
65 Chile 71,092.00
66 Matsucrapa Electric Ind. 65,555.60
67 Nissho Iwai 65,393.20
68 ING Group 62,492.40
69 AT&T 62,391.00
70 Philip Morris 61,751.00
71 Sony 60,052.70
72 Pakistan 59,880.00
73 Deutsche Bank 58,585.10
74 Boeing 57,993.00
75 Peru 57,318.00
76 Czech Republic 56,379.00
77 Dai-Ichi Mutual Life Ins. 55,104.70
78 Honda Motor 54,773.50
79 Assicurazioni Generali 53,723.20
80 Nissan Motor 53,679.90
81 New Zealand 53,622.00
82 E.On 52,227.70
83 Toshiba 51,634.90
84 Bank of America 51,392.00
85 Fiat 51,331.70
86 Nestle 49,694.10
87 SBC Communications 49,489.00
88 Credit Suisse 49,362.00
89 Hungary 48,355.00
90 Hewlett-Packard 48,253.00
91 Fujitsu 47,195.90
92 Algeria 47,015.00
93 Metro 46,663.60
94 Sumitomo Life Insur. 46,445.10
95 Bangladesh 45,779.00
96 Tokyo Electric Power 45,727.70
97 Kroger 45,351.60
98 Total Fina Elf 44,990.30
99 NEC 44,828.00
100 State Farm Insurance 44,637.20
http://www.corporations.org/system/top100.html
Sources: Sales: Fortune, July 31, 2000. GDP: World Bank, World Development Report 2000.
Quote from: Molly on December 27, 2009, 03:40:29 PM
THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
OPINION EUROPE
DECEMBER 8, 2009, 7:20 P.M. ET
The Tip of the Climategate Iceberg
The global-warming scandal is bigger than one email leak.
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Files.View&FileStore_id=7db3fbd8-f1b4-4fdf-bd15-12b7df1a0b63 (http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Files.View&FileStore_id=7db3fbd8-f1b4-4fdf-bd15-12b7df1a0b63)
32And he said, Oh let not the LORD be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.
--Gen 18
14if my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land.
2Chron 7
ww? what's going on?
Dutch Gov't Collapses Over Differences on Afghanistan
Saturday, February 20, 2010
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,587021,00.html?test=latestnews
Politics.
We have about 10 parties in what your would call the congress.
None have a majority so usally there is a coalition to reach the needed 51%.
That coalistion are a handful people that can be compared to Obama and ministers.
The coalition was never a good marriage. Part leftwing and part center.
The leftwing was against the war. The center not. The leftwing has no spine and polls show they halved.
What exactly happend is still not clear. The centerwing minsiter was of foreign affairs.
The UN asked if we would extent our mission in Afganistan for another few years.
Left blames center to trick them in extending the mission by letting teh UN write that letter.
Center blames left for showing some spine for electoral gains.
And then the mud slinging starts.
The article is mostly correct. The agreement never was never to completly withdraw. Troops yes. But still support like training and F16's. But that suddenly was of the table. But it's far moe complicated. Then never really got along. This was just a trigger. And "the congress" did it's uttermost best to let things escalate even more.
BTW that Harry Potter look-a-like is a Calvinist....
http://costofwar.com/
Quotehttp://costofwar.com/
Yeah, now we need another website on who's making the profits.
Secretly each nation is studying and perfecting newer and ghastlier means of annihilating its foes wholesale. Yes, ships will continue to be built, for the shipbuilders must make their profits. And guns still will be manufactured and powder and rifles will be made, for the munitions makers must make their huge profits. And the soldiers, of course, must wear uniforms, for the manufacturer must make their war profits too.
But victory or defeat will be determined by the skill and ingenuity of our scientists.
If we put them to work making poison gas and more and more fiendish mechanical and explosive instruments of destruction, they will have no time for the constructive job of building greater prosperity for all peoples. By putting them to this useful job, we can all make more money out of peace than we can out of war – even the munitions makers.
So...I say,
TO HELL WITH WAR!"--"War is a Racket," General Smedley Butler
Quote from: Molly on February 25, 2010, 02:21:00 AM
But victory or defeat will be determined by the skill and ingenuity of our scientists.
If we put them to work making poison gas and more and more fiendish mechanical and explosive instruments of destruction, they will have no time for the constructive job of building greater prosperity for all peoples. By putting them to this useful job, we can all make more money out of peace than we can out of war – even the munitions makers.
Peace sells, but who is buying?
Quote from: WhiteWings on February 25, 2010, 08:51:47 AM
Quote from: Molly on February 25, 2010, 02:21:00 AM
But victory or defeat will be determined by the skill and ingenuity of our scientists.
If we put them to work making poison gas and more and more fiendish mechanical and explosive instruments of destruction, they will have no time for the constructive job of building greater prosperity for all peoples. By putting them to this useful job, we can all make more money out of peace than we can out of war – even the munitions makers.
Peace sells, but who is buying?
No one knows it's an option.
Revelation 12:9
,,,Satan, which deceiveth the whole world...
The problem is that it requires absolute trust.
Question: Molly, assume you are the president of the USA. Perhaps also or Russia and the EU. Would try to convince the world to disarm? And if all would have agreed, would you really disarm? Or would you keep a nice stash of goodies 'just in case'...?
Quote from: WhiteWings on February 25, 2010, 01:49:21 PM
The problem is that it requires absolute trust.
Question: Molly, assume you are the president of the USA. Perhaps also or Russia and the EU. Would try to convince the world to disarm? And if all would have agreed, would you really disarm? Or would you keep a nice stash of goodies 'just in case'...?
You don't have to disarm. Just not use the weapons.
We won't disarm until Christ returns, IMO.
But, just having the weapon is a great determent, against tyrants as well as rogue countries.
German Firearms Act of 1937:
"No civilian is to have a firearm without a permit and permits will not be issued to [persons] suspected of acting against the state. For Jews this permission will not be granted. Those people who do not require permission to purchase or carry weapons [include] the whole SS and SA, including the Death's Head group and officers of the Hitler Youth." [Kates, Restricting Handguns pg. 185, 1979]
Adolph Hitler:
"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to permit the conquered Eastern peoples to have arms. History teaches that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by doing so." April 11, 1942, quoted in Hitler's Tischegesprache Im Fuhrerhauptquartier 1941-1942, [Hitler's Table-Talk at the Fuhrer's Headquarters 1941-1942], Dr. Henry Picker, ed. (Athenaum-Verlag, Bonn, 1951); The original source is notes taken by Hitler associate Martin Bormann, a document called Bormann-Vermerke.
Heinrich Himmler:
"Germans who wish to use firearms should join the SS or the SA-- ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve the State."
Quote from: Molly on February 25, 2010, 02:09:33 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on February 25, 2010, 01:49:21 PM
The problem is that it requires absolute trust.
Question: Molly, assume you are the president of the USA. Perhaps also or Russia and the EU. Would try to convince the world to disarm? And if all would have agreed, would you really disarm? Or would you keep a nice stash of goodies 'just in case'...?
You don't have to disarm. Just not use the weapons.
Quote from: MollySecretly each nation is studying and perfecting newer and ghastlier means of annihilating its foes wholesale. Yes, ships will continue to be built, for the shipbuilders must make their profits. And guns still will be manufactured and powder and rifles will be made, for the munitions makers must make their huge profits. And the soldiers, of course, must wear uniforms, for the manufacturer must make their war profits too.
If you don't disarm you stay in the arms race. Letting your army outdate is slowly disarming. But, yes, it's cheaper that actually fighting a war with them.
QuoteIf you don't disarm you stay in the arms race. Letting your army outdate is slowly disarming. But, yes, it's cheaper that actually fighting a war with them.
Unfortunately, I think that whenever there is a discrepancy of power between any two entities, the more powerful will be irresistably tempted to subordinate the less powerful. It's the carnal nature of man, I guess.
Jesus is the only one I know for whom that principle didn't apply.
Actually, the NewWorldOrder would like to disarm all the nations and all the peoples of all the nations because there will be no more nations when they take over, just their world military group, in their view. But, the Bible shows the nations existing even in the last chapter of Revelation. So, I don't see them being successful.
Exactly. Armies both make and prevent war. But in either case the scientists from your quote are needed. Stuff needs to be build in peace time. Not during attack.
So my quote should be: Peace sells but noone is stupid enough to buy. :sigh:
Quote from: WhiteWings on February 25, 2010, 02:35:08 PM
Exactly. Armies both make and prevent war. But in either case the scientists from your quote are needed. Stuff needs to be build in peace time. Not during attack.
So my quote should be: Peace sells but noone is stupid enough to buy. :sigh:
I added more to my post above.
Science has been co-opted for the past hundred years. They are not even subtle about it anymore. Can you imagine a President visiting MIT and telling the scientists how to do their job? Could science be any more politicized than Climategate? But, see, the government has all the money and gives grants to those who do their bidding. And, the people have no idea what is going on.
Tesla's dream was to give electricity [for free] to all the peoples of the world. And, he would have succeeded if not for J. P. Morgan and his buds.
"I do believe that a consensus is growing," he [Obama] said. Those still unpersuaded, he said in a speech at Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), were outside the mainstream.
"The naysayers, the folks who would pretend that this is not an issue, they are being marginalised," Obama said. "The closer we get, the harder the opposition will fight and the more we'll hear from those whose interests or ideology run counter to the much-needed action that we're engaged in."This literally left me speechless. I just have one word--HUBRIS.
At least he told us--science has become an 'ideology' based on self 'interest.'
Quote from: Molly on February 25, 2010, 02:19:26 PM
Actually, the NewWorldOrder would like to disarm all the nations and all the peoples of all the nations because there will be no more nations when they take over, just their world military group, in their view. But, the Bible shows the nations existing even in the last chapter of Revelation. So, I don't see them being successful.
the NWO already have 716 military bases in 31 countries and they are lighting the fires of unrest and violence all over the world...
Quote from: Molly on February 25, 2010, 02:19:26 PM
Actually, the NewWorldOrder would like to disarm all the nations and all the peoples of all the nations because there will be no more nations when they take over, just their world military group, in their view. But, the Bible shows the nations existing even in the last chapter of Revelation. So, I don't see them being successful.
Quote from: MollyAdolph Hitler:
"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to permit the conquered Eastern peoples to have arms. History teaches that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by doing so." April 11, 1942,
Disarmed nations are easier to oppress....
There is a difference between disarming for peaceful reasons and disarming for military gain.
Hey Molly,
What is the NewWorldOrder? Is it to do with the end times?
x
British Tea Party Movement to launch on Saturday
Daniel Hannan
February 25th, 2010
The inaugural British Tea Party will take place on Saturday in my home town of Brighton, and I'll be speaking. Do try to come: here are the details.
Labour has raised more than a trillion pounds in additional taxation since 1997. Yet, unbelievably, Gordon Brown has still managed to run up a deficit of 12.6 per cent of GDP (Greece's is 12.7 per cent). A far lower level of taxation brought Americans out in spontaneous protest last year.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100027366/british-tea-party-movement-to-launch-on-Saturday/
Quote from: natcat86 on February 26, 2010, 10:22:26 PM
Hey Molly,
What is the NewWorldOrder? Is it to do with the end times?
x
Natcat,
The NWO is group of extremely wealth that (want to) rule the world. They for example (want to) control all money and food. They also want one currency.
There are most certainly parallels with the end times. The question of course is:
a] Real?
b] Coincidence?
c] Are the following some relious guidelines. They are said to be free mansons. And free mansons were the temple builders.
Quote from: natcat86 on February 26, 2010, 10:22:26 PM
Hey Molly,
What is the NewWorldOrder? Is it to do with the end times?
x
Hi Nat--
End times? There are no end times. Just a gradual but ever increasing revealing of the kingdom of God.
44And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. --Daniel 2
Wow, I like that, Molly.
Written so nicely with so few words.
Sunday, Feb 28, 2010 @03:05pm CST
(Washington, DC) -- One of the most well-known and controversial pieces of legislation passed during the administration of former President George W. Bush has been renewed.
President Obama has signed a bill extending the Patriot Act for a year.
The legislation was first passed after the 9-11 terrorist attacks of 2001, giving the government broad authority in terrorist surveillance. Without the extension, several provisions of the law would have expired on Saturday.
Congressional Democrats had tried to add more civil liberty protections into the law, but were unable. Republicans successfully argued changing the law would undermine efforts to track suspected terrorists.
http://ozarksfirst.com/content/fulltext/?cid=239782
"The Love Police" Two witnesses? LOL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX7lOk2H8eo
http://collegerama.tudelft.nl/mediasite/Viewer/?peid=f773a6e9ecca43bbb3ac92687d476568 (http://collegerama.tudelft.nl/mediasite/Viewer/?peid=f773a6e9ecca43bbb3ac92687d476568)
A Detention Bill You Ought to Read More Carefully
Mar 5 2010, 3:40 PM ET
Why is the national security community treating the "Enemy Belligerent, Interrogation, Detention, and Prosecution Act of 2010," introduced by Sens. John McCain and Joseph Lieberman on Thursday as a standard proposal, as a simple response to the administration's choices in the aftermath of the Christmas Day bombing attempt? A close reading of the bill suggests it would allow the U.S. military to detain U.S. citizens without trial indefinitely in the U.S. based on suspected activity. Read the bill here, and then read the summarized points after the jump.
According to the summary, the bill sets out a comprehensive policy for the detention, interrogation and trial of suspected enemy belligerents who are believed to have engaged in hostilities against the United States by requiring these individuals to be held in military custody, interrogated for their intelligence value and not provided with a Miranda warning.
(There is no distinction between U.S. persons--visa holders or citizens--and non-U.S. persons.)
It would require these "belligerents" to be coded as "high-value detainee" to be held in military custody and interrogated for their intelligence value by a High-Value Detainee Interrogation Team established by the president. (The H.I.G., of course, was established to bring a sophisticated interrogation capacity to the federal justice system.)
Any suspected unprivileged enemy belligerents considered a "high-value detainee" shall not be provided with a Miranda warning.
The bill asks the President to determine criteria for designating an individual as a "high-value detainee" if he/she: (1) poses a threat of an attack on civilians or civilian facilities within the U.S. or U.S. facilities abroad; (2) poses a threat to U.S. military personnel or U.S. military facilities; (3) potential intelligence value; (4) is a member of al Qaeda or a terrorist group affiliated with al Qaeda or (5) such other matters as the President considers appropriate. The President must submit the regulations and guidance to the appropriate committees of Congress no later than 60 days after enactment.
To the extent possible, the High-Value Detainee Interrogation Team must make a preliminary determination whether the detainee is an unprivileged enemy belligerent within 48 hours of taking detainee into custody.
The High-Value Detainee Interrogation Team must submit its determination to the Secretary of Defense and the Attorney General after consultation with the Director of National Intelligence, the Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency. The Secretary of Defense and the Attorney General make a final determination and report the determination to the President and the appropriate committees of Congress. In the case of any disagreement between the Secretary of Defense and the Attorney General, the President will make the determination.
Note that the president himself doesn't get to make the call.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2010/03/a-detention-bill-you-ought-to-read-more-carefully/37116
(http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/0/B/3/We-The-Corporations.jpg)
March 12th, 2010 6:16 am
The Slaughter Solution and Other Acts of Desperation
Is it "end-game" time in the debate over what to do with American health care? The other day, some industrious blogger — it might have been the Drudge Report — posted an amusing list of headlines from the past year or so, each announcing that, at long last, we'd reached the "end game" in the debate over health. Just yesterday, President Obama said again that "the time to talk" was over: the time to vote had come.
He didn't really mean that, of course, because were a vote taken now, his plan to have the government usurp a sixth of the U.S. economy and institute top-down socialized medicine in the Unite States would fail.
As a result, Team Obama has been exerting the old cerebellum to discover some way of passing the Democrats' health care bill without, you know, precisely passing it. Even if you question their ethics, you have to admire their ingenuity. Last month it was "reconciliation": that administrative tool was all the rage. A technique used to patch over budgetary anomalies was going to be hauled in to revolutionize a major social program that had no bipartisan support whatsoever.
That wasn't going down with the public too well. So although reconciliation is still on the table (or, rather, up the Reid-Pelosi sleeve) the latest wheeze is "The Slaughter Solution," named for Rep. Louise Slaughter (NY, "D," of course). Would you like to enact some legislation without the inconvenience (to say noting of the accountability) of actually voting for it? The Washington Examiner explains how you can do it:
In the Slaughter Solution, the rule would declare that the House "deems" the Senate version of Obamacare to have been passed by the House. House members would still have to vote on whether to accept the rule, but they would then be able to say they only voted for a rule, not for the bill itself.
George Orwell, wouldst that you were here to witness this!
http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerkimball/2010/03/12/the-slaughter-solution-and-other-acts-of-desperation/
Bronson Staker, Miracle baby --courtesy of the best health care system in the world, praise God..
By Mike Celizic
TODAYshow.com contributor
updated 10:31 a.m. ET, Fri., March. 12, 2010
Bronson Staker is a typical 18-month-old — which is to say, he wasn't interested in what Mom and Dad were talking about with a stranger. Bronson was far more interested in fussing and squirming and grabbing his father's cell phone and pretending to talk into it and doing all the delightful things that toddlers do.
None of this would be remarkable except for one fact: Six weeks ago, Bronson was dead.
That is not an overstatement. Bronson is not a a child who briefly lost consciousness after choking on a piece of candy. There's no other way to describe his condition other than that one uncompromising word: dead
Fatal distraction
Bronson's mother, Sara Staker, had been bathing him and his 2-year-old brother in late January in the family's Salt Lake City home. Momentarily distracted by one of her other two children, Sara briefly left the bathroom. When she came back, Bronson was facedown in the water, showing no signs of life.
"It was horrible. It was the most helpless feeling I've ever had in my life," Sara told TODAY's Lester Holt Friday in New York. "There was no question in my mind that he was gone. He was white, his lips were blue. His eyes were rolled back."
Sara called 911 and started CPR on the lifeless little body. Bronson did not respond. First responders arrived and continued revival efforts. They, too, failed to restore a heartbeat.
When the ambulance arrived at the hospital, Bronson was pronounced DOA — dead on arrival.
Still, he was taken to the ER, where doctors took over resuscitation efforts. After 40 minutes, they finally restored a heartbeat while a ventilator pumped oxygen into Bronson's lungs.
Experimental procedure
Now comes the miracle part of the story — the reason Bronson and his parents, Sara and Matt Staker, were sitting on a couch in TODAY's New York studios, telling their story to Holt.
The doctors told Matt and Sara that there was a high likelihood that Bronson had suffered serious brain damage during the long period that he was clinically dead and his brain was deprived of oxygen. They said there was an experimental treatment called therapeutic hypothermia that might improve his chances of recovery. It would involve lowering Bronson's body temperature to 91 degrees, almost eight degrees below normal, and putting him in a coma to reduce brain swelling. He would be maintained in that state for almost two weeks, and when he was warmed up and revived, he probably would not be the same boy they knew.
"We asked them, 'If this was your own child, would you do it?' They said, 'Absolutely, yes,' " Matt told Holt.
The Stakers told the doctors to go ahead. Bronson was hooked up to more tubes and wires than his parents could count, covered with a blanket filled with chilling fluid, and put in intensive care. All his parents could do was look at him lying in his coma day after day, the tubes and machines breathing for him.
"It was excruciating, because every fiber of your being as a mother wants to hold your child, especially when they're hurting," Sara said. "You want to hold him and hug him and wrap him in a blanket and keep him warm."
She said he was cold to the touch and puffy from all the fluids being pumped into him. "It was just excruciating," she repeated.
As the day grew nearer when Bronson would be revived, doctors and therapists and rehabilitation experts advised the Stakers on what they could expect.
"We had been told we would probably take home a 16-month-old newborn," Sara said. "We had been told probably it would be months of rehab, maybe even years."
They were advised to get physical and occupational therapy equipment for their home and be prepared for a six-month regimen. "We were in it for the long haul," Sara said.
Awake and alert
Thirteen days after Bronson died and was brought back to a cold and comatose existence, the doctors warmed his body and allowed him to regain consciousness. Sara entered the room and looked at him. He looked back and recognized his mother.
"I walked in the room and the lights were on. Immediately I could see that he was tracking and connecting and looking from one nurse to the other. When I walked in, he lifted his chin and I could see that he knew who I was," Sara said.
This was beyond where anyone thought Bronson would be. And although he was weak, it was evident immediately that the tot was defying the odds. By the end of the day, he was standing up on his own. A day later he was walking. Two days later, he walked out of the hospital.
"Everything was there," Matt said. "He was weak because he was lying down for [13] days, but all his cognitive [functions], how his brain works, it was still there."
The doctors had given the Stakers a list of milestones that Bronson should reach in the first six months of his recovery. He hit them all in two days. A month later, he shows no signs of any damage. If anything, he's learning vocabulary faster than he was before the accident, his parents report.
Sara, who has kept a blog of Bronson's recovery, said it has taught her and Matt to believe that miracles are real. It's also taught her something about life.
"The lessons we learned are innumerable," she said. "Life is just so fragile. As parents, we're so busy and we try to multitask things. It's really easy to get distracted by the things that aren't the most important things, and the things that are the most important suffer.
"I hope that we've learned those lessons."
Read more: http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/35820985/#ixzz0i5TVNzEZ
Jane Burgermeister on the swine flu, NWO, and the rise of European fascism [Lisbon Treaty]
http://projectavalon.net/jane_burgermeister.html
Bart Stupak [democrat] threatened.
Friday, March 12, 2010
Stupak: Dems say Abortions save Money: Stupak Threatened by Ethics Inquiry
Rep. Bark Stupak interviewed with National Review Online's "the corner" and said one of the Democrat arguments in favor of abortion is the money saved if the children are not born. He also said some of his colleagues are threatening to make complaints to the Ethics Committee about him. He didn't say what the complaints are, and probably doesn't know. There is an all-out assault to bring people around to vote for the Senate health care bill. His fellow Dems are letting him know he will be sacrificed if they can find a way to do so.
Stupak is a pro-life Democrat who introduced his own amendment to guarantee abortions will not be federally-funded in health care legislation. Stupak and 11 other Democrats have agreed that they will not vote for health care if guarantees against federally-funded abortions are not in the bill. In this interview, Stupak says he has lost two of the the 11, the pressure was just too great for them.
"We'll probably have to wait until the Republicans take back the majority to fix this."
http://maggiesnotebook.blogspot.com/2010/03/stupak-dems-say-abortions-save-money.html
Nearly One-Third of Doctors Could Leave Medicine if Health-Care Reform Bill Passes, According to Survey Reported in New England Journal of Medicine
Tuesday, March 16, 2010
By Christopher Neefus
(CNSNews.com) - Nearly one-third of all practicing physicians may leave the medical profession if President Obama signs current versions of health-care reform legislation into law, according to a survey published in the latest issue of the New England Journal of Medicine.
The survey, which was conducted by the Medicus Firm, a leading physician search and consulting firm based in Atlanta and Dallas, found that a majority of physicians said health-care reform would cause the quality of American medical care to "deteriorate" and it could be the "final straw" that sends a sizeable number of doctors out of medicine.
More than 29 percent (29.2) percent of the nearly 1,200 doctors who responded to the survey said they would quit the profession or retire early if health reform legislation becomes law. If a public option were included in the legislation, as several liberal Senators have indicated they would like, the number would jump to 45.7 percent.
The medical journal published the results in its March and April edition, saying: "While a sudden loss of half of the nations physicians seems unlikely, a very dramatic decrease in the physician workforce could become a reality as an unexpected side effect of health reform."
Kevin Perpetua, managing partner for the Medicus Firm, reported that a reform bill could be "the final straw" in an already financially precarious industry.
"Many physicians feel that they cannot continue to practice if patient loads increase while pay decreases," Perpetua said in the study. "The overwhelming prediction from physicians is that health reform, if implemented inappropriately, could create a detrimental combination of circumstances, and result in an environment in which it is not possible for most physicians to continue practicing medicine."
"With an average debt of $140,000, and many graduates approaching a quarter of a million dollars in school loans, being a doctor is becoming less and less feasible," Perpetua said. "Health-care reform and increasing government control of medicine may be the final straw that causes the physician workforce to break down."
The survey shows that many doctors already find their situations difficult:
-- 36 percent said that they would not recommend medicine as a profession to others, regardless of whether health-care reform passes;
-- another 27 percent would still recommend medicine as a career, but not if the current reform proposal passes.
In total, 63 percent of doctors would not recommend the profession after health-care reform passes. Just 12 percent do not recommend becoming a physician now but think they would if current reform proposals pass.
Primary-care physicians, those who work in the critical fields of family and internal medicine, not only feel that they would want to quit but that they might be cast out of medicine. 46.3 percent of those physicians said that they would either want to leave medicine or that they would be "forced out" by the changes to the system.
Despite all the opposition to the bill as it stands, only a little more than 3 percent of respondents said the status quo was best, with the vast majority (62.7 percent) saying they believe changes are needed.
The same 62.7 percent said they wanted reforms made, but that they "should be implemented in a more targeted, gradual way, as opposed to the sweeping overhaul that is in (the) legislation."
Andrea Santiago, a spokeswoman for the Medicus Firm, said those numbers were the most striking.
"Please allow me to emphasize that 96 percent of the physicians surveyed in our report are in favor of health reform, in some form or fashion," she told CNSNews.com in an e-mail. "To me, the fact that so many physicians surveyed want health reform, but relatively few are in favor of the current legislation, was one of the most significant, telling results."
Congressional Democratic leaders, meanwhile, have said that doctors favor the bill and are part of an "unprecedented coalition" of doctors rooting for its passage. The claim is based on the American Medical Association's endorsement of the legislation in Congress.
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, in 2008 there were 661,400 physicians and surgeons within the United States. Of that number, 250,000 are members of the American Medical Association (AMA) -- and nearly 100,000 of those are medical students.
Santiago explained the AMA could not claim to represent all doctors, nor perhaps could any other group, and said the potentially massive shortage of physicians has stayed largely out of the debate because public figures have been trying to speak for doctors instead of speaking to them.
"I think the reason it hasn't become a big issue in the political debate is maybe because no one else has really thought about the effects of health reform on the physician workforce. Or, maybe people didn't want to think about it, but as recruiters we can't help but think about it and take notice," she said.
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/62812
What are they thinking?
This will be the death of our country if I am understanding correctly.
If God's will I pray he nips this, I just don't understand what the problem is with our private health care.
The President and his men are on a mission, nothing else matters at the moment. :thumbdown:
Wait until the American people find out who their new best friend is going to be. [ Hint: it's not the doctor]...
16,500 more IRS agents needed to enforce Obamacare
By: J.P. Freire
Associate Commentary Editor
03/18/10 4:32 PM EDT
New tax mandates and penalties included in Obamacare will cause the greatest expansion of the Internal Revenue Service since World War II, according to a release from Rep. Kevin Brady, R-Texas.
A new analysis by the Joint Economic Committee and the House Ways & Means Committee minority staff estimates up to 16,500 new IRS personnel will be needed to collect, examine and audit new tax information mandated on families and small businesses in the 'reconciliation' bill being taken up by the U.S. House of Representatives this weekend. ...
Scores of new federal mandates and fifteen different tax increases totaling $400 billion are imposed under the Democratic House bill. In addition to more complicated tax returns, families and small businesses will be forced to reveal further tax information to the IRS, provide proof of 'government approved' health care and submit detailed sales information to comply with new excise taxes.
Americans for Tax Reform has a good breakdown of the bill by the numbers.
Isn't it reassuring that at a time of recession, government will do what's necessary to ensure its growth?
Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/16500-more-IRS-agents-needed-to-enforce-Obamacare-88458137.html#ixzz0ibmPh48H
Cuccinelli's office confirms Virginia will sue over health care
A spokesman for Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli II (R) said this afternoon that Virginia will file suit against the federal government if the Democratic health care reform bill is approved by the U.S. Congress.
Cuccinelli has long said he was examining the legal issues and suggested he would likely file suit. Brian Gottstein, a spokesman for the office, said this afternoon that a lawsuit is now a definite. Gottstein would provide no details of the legal rationale for such a suit, indicating the process is "still being worked out."
Virginia last week became the first state in the country to pass a state bill declaring it illegal for the government to require individuals to purchase health insurance, a key part of bills under consideration on Capitol Hill.
We are also expecting to receive a letter shortly that Cuccinelli is sending to House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) warning her that using the so-called "deem and pass" procedure to pass the Senate health reform bill in the House would open the measure to additional constitutional challenges from the states.
UPDATE: We've received a copy of Cuccinelli's letter to Pelosi. In it, he writes: "Should you employ the deem and pass tactic, you expose any act which may pass to yet another constitutional challenge."
The full letter is included after the jump.
March 17, 2010 The Honorable Nancy Pelosi Speaker of the United States House of Representatives Office of the Speaker H-232, U.S. Capitol Washington, D.C. Dear Speaker Pelosi: I am writing to urge you not to proceed with the Senate Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act under a so-called "deem and pass" rule because such a course of action would raise grave constitutional questions. Based upon media interviews and statements which I have seen, you are considering this approach because it might somehow shield members of Congress from taking a recorded vote on an overwhelmingly unpopular Senate bill. This is an improper purpose under the bicameralism requirements of Article I, Section 7 of the U.S. Constitution, one of the purposes of which is to make our representatives fully accountable for their votes. Furthermore, to be validly enacted, the Senate bill would have to be accepted by the House in a form that is word-for-word identical (Clinton v. City of New York, 524 U.S. 417 (1998)). Should you employ the deem and pass tactic, you expose any act which may pass to yet another constitutional challenge. A bill of this magnitude should not be passed using this maneuver. As the President noted last week, the American people are entitled to an up or down vote. Sincerely, Kenneth T. Cuccinelli, II Attorney General of Virginia.
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/virginiapolitics/2010/03/cuccinellis_office_confirms_vi.html
ID Governor Signs Bill to Sue if Health Care Reform Passes
Nevada Governor Says He'll Sue Federal Government Over 'Illegal' Health Care Bill
SC, Fla. ready to sue over health care deal
38 states poised to sue gov't over health care
Molly, I see you are more than likely a Republican, if you were a Democrat the story would be different. It all depends on which side you talk to as to how this whole thing will play out.
Isn't that the way it is with religion also?
CHB
No I'm not a Republican. You obviously didn't know me when the Republicans were in power.
But, I do love my country and the blessing we were favored with from God in the form of the Constitution of the United States.
I consider that document a gift from God, since you ask.
Nor do I wish, like Esau, to sell my birthright for a bowl of pottage.
Hi Molly,
I see what you are saying but I personally don't think we should be involved with worldly affairs. Paul said to "think on things above and not on things here on earth". God puts who he chooses to be in power and all things will go the way he wants it and whatever we do will not effect things one bit. That is unless he chooses us to be involved and apparently he has chosen you so more power to you. :girlheart:
CHB
I hear you, chb and appreciate your point of view. I know a lot of people feel that way.
But, 2000 years ago, Jesus said this--
36... "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place."
--John 18
"now"
G3568
νῦν
nun
noon
A primary particle of present time; "now" (as adverb of date, a transition or emphasis); also as noun or adjective present or immediate: - henceforth, + hereafter, of late, soon, present, this (time). See also G3569, G3570.
Jesus is talking about a time which 2000 years ago was 'now.' But, today, 2000 years ago is 'then.'
We pray the prayer he taught us--
Thy kingdom come
Thy will be done
On earth as it is in heaven
Therefore, I pray, I witness, I wait, I work for the day that he is all in all, that his kingdom is on earth as it is in heaven.
1 Peter 4:11
If anyone speaks, he should do it as one speaking the very words of God. If anyone serves, he should do it with the strength God provides, so that in all things God may be praised through Jesus Christ. To him be the glory and the power for ever and ever. Amen.
Obama's health care reforms show that America has become an 'elective dictatorship'
By Toby Young World Last updated: March 22nd, 2010
Wow. Talk about close. 219-212. No wonder the anti-abortion Democrats were able to secure some last-minute concessions. If four representatives had switched sides, Obama would have lost the vote.
Has America been more politically divided over an issue since the Civil War? Civil Rights? At least that issue cut across party lines, whereas health care reform — or "socialised medicine", as its opponents call it — has divided the parties right down the middle. Not a single Republican voted for the bill. (Admittedly, 34 Democrats voted against it.) This was a bitterly fought legislative campaign that gave the lie to Obama's claim that his Presidency would be "postpartisan". He is the most partisan President in living memory.
In this respect, Obama has had to conduct himself more like a British Prime Minister than an American Head of State. When I studied A-level politics back in the Reagan era, I remember being taught that the two great American political parties, unlike ours, only existed as electoral machines. They coalesced around one candidate every four years, then fractured again, with Presidents bolting together bi-partisan coalitions to push through legislation. The President didn't depend for his survival on retaining the support of his party in the same way that our Prime Minister does and, hence, his party didn't have to stay together after he'd been elected, at least not to the same extent. This, I was taught, was one of the advantages of America's separation of powers. Because the executive branch of the government didn't need to control the legislative branch in order to remain in office, it hadn't developed anything like the same control mechanisms as the British Prime Minister. This meant the British people had more to fear from the centralisation of power than Americans. Elective dictatorship — the phrase Lord Hailsham coined to describe the dominance of Parliament by the government of the day — was a greater threat to Britain than it was to America.
The emergence of elective dictatorship in America — with the President having to use every stick at his disposal to beat his parliamentary party into submission — is surely one of the least attractive aspects of Obama's Presidency. According to today's New York Times:
Never in modern memory has a major piece of legislation passed without a single Republican vote. Even President Lyndon B. Johnson got just shy of half of Republicans in the House to vote for Medicare in 1965, a piece of legislation that was denounced with many of the same words used to oppose this one. That may be the true measure of how much has changed in Washington in the ensuing 45 years, and how Mr. Obama's own strategy is changing with the discovery that the approach to governing he had in mind simply will not work.
"Let's face it, he's failed in the effort to be the nonpolarizing president, the one who can use rationality and calm debate to bridge our traditional divides," said Peter Beinart, a liberal essayist who is publishing a history of hubris in politics.
It seems unlikely, to put it mildly, that this is the end of the affair. No doubt the Republicans in the Senate have a few delaying tricks up their sleeves and opponents of the bill, having failed to stop its passage in the legislative branch of the government, will switch their attention to the judicial branch. It will be interesting to see how far Obama can use the powers vested in him as President to railroad through these reforms. An elected dictator? I cannot see a freedom-loving people putting up with such a figure for long.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyyoung/100030829/obamas-health-care-reforms-show-that-america-has-become-an-elective-dictatorship/
"I think [Obama] is being--let's be generous--he's being disingenuous, but he's an intelligent man. He knows. He knew from the beginning that the reforms he's introduced...are going to cost a fortune. They are not going to be honest and open about the cost because that would have killed it. However, the President has established a commission to reduce the deficit. We now have 8 trillion dollars in debt. CBO has said that even without health care, we'll add another 9 trillion in a decade, you add in health care it's another 2 and a half trillion. He knows that if you don't do anything about it, we're going over a cliff. So he's appointed a commission. It reports after the election,-- remember-- after the election. And, I predict that the major recommendation is going to be a national sales tax. There's no other way to produce the revenue they're going to need. It's a river of revenue, the Europeans have it, we are going to have it.
People do not understand that the insurance companies are not going to be the 'predators' of before because they are going to become the lapdogs, the agents, the extension of the federal government. Under the rules written into this new legislation, they are going to be the collectors of national health insurance. The reason that all those left wing house members who said we won't support this unless you have a public option and why they all caved in is because the administration finally explained to them and got it through their thick heads that you don't need a public option. The insurance companies are going to become utilities; they are the public option. The rules that they are going to be administering will all come from the federal government. They are going to collect the premiums, and the government in Washington will control how they insure, who they insure, and how much it will cost."
--Charles Krauthammer
"If you think healthcare is expensive now, wait till it's free."
--Tea Party sign
"He's raised taxes by 500 billion dollars [in the health care bill]."
--Mitt Romney
Judge Andrew Napolitano - Health Care Bill Passed by Congress UNCONSTITUTIONAL - Part 1 of 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x864iA-Imkw
'Global warming': time to get angry
Blogs Home » News » Environment » James Delingpole
James Delingpole
Heroic, monotesticular UKIP MEP Nigel Farage was bumped off the BBC Question Time panel at the last minute last week. Shame. That particular edition was broadcast from Middlesbrough and it would have been fascinating to hear the audience's response to the choice things he was planning to say about the closure of their local steelworks.
Here is how he describes it in a letter:
Sir
Corus' steelworks at Redcar, near Middlesbrough, "Teesside Cast Products", is to be closed ("mothballed" is the euphemism). It is Britain's last great steelworks and an essential national resource. Without it, we are at the world's mercy.
Corus is owned by Tata Steel of India. Recently, Tata received "EU-carbon-credits" worth up to £1bn, ostensibly so that steel-production at Redcar would not be crippled by the EU's "carbon-emissions-trading-scheme". By closing the plant at Redcar – and not making any "carbon-emissions" – Tata walks off with £1bn of taxpayers' money, which it will invest in its steel-factories in India, where there is no "carbon-emissions-trading-scheme".
There's more. The EU's "emissions-trading-scheme" (ETS) is modelled on instructions from the "International Panel on Climate-Change" (IPCC) of the United Nations Organisation. The Chairman of the IPCC is one Dr Rajendra K.Pachauri, a former railway-engineer, who obtained this post by virtue of his being Chairman of the "Tata Energy-Research Institute" – set up by Tata Steel.
UKIP's leader in the EU's "parliament", Nigel Farage, revealed these data in a speech at Strasbourg, on 10th February, and was due to appear in the BBC's "Question-Time" programme, from Middlesbrough, on 18th February, where the closure of the Redcar-plant was inevitably discussed. Almost at the last minute, his invitation to join the "Question-Time" panel was cancelled, without explanation.
An article, on the subject, by Neil Hamilton, which was due to appear in this week's Sunday Express, has also been "pulled".
Yours etc
The Corus scandal has been covered before, of course, by Booker, North et al. What bothers me, though, is how remarkably little traction it has had in the MSM. The sums of taxpayers money being squandered are stupendous; the pointlessness of the exercise beyond all reason; yet somehow – a bit like the fact that thanks to EU regulations on landfill waste disposal we're now all supposed to put up with having our stinking, rat-infested trash collected just once a fortnight – it's being treated as yet another of those government impositions about which we're merely supposed to shrug our shoulders and tamely accept as just another of those things.
The mighty Booker reported on another example of this at the weekend. Gordon Brown has secretly blown another £60 million of taxpayer's money the nation can ill-afford to spend on "buying carbon credits from the Third World for the use of government buildings and other official purposes – so that our civil servants can continue to benefit from the CO2 emissions needed to keep their offices warm and lit."
To acquaint yourself with the full grisly details read it here. Alternatively, just torture yourself gently by reading the conclusion:
Thus we pay billions of dollars to the Asian countries for the right to continue emitting CO2 and other greenhouse gases here in the West, including the £60 million contributed by British taxpayers to keep our civil servants warm. As a result we enrich a small number of people in China and India, including Maurice Strong, who now lives in exile in Beijing, having been caught out in 2005 for illicitly receiving $1 million from Saddam Hussein in the "Oil for Food" scandal. He played a key part in setting up China's carbon exchange, to buy and sell the CDM credits administered by the UNFCCC – of which Strong himself was the chief architect.
The net result of all this trading and jiggery-pokery is that, after billions of pounds and dollars have changed hands, with a hefty commission for those bankers and other carbon traders along the way, there is no reduction in greenhouse gas emissions whatever. But at least our political class can continue to work in warm offices and fly righteously round the world on our behalf – while the rest of us foot the bill.
Meanwhile our prospective next prime minister David Cameron has come up with a whizzo new scheme to make our inflated electricity bills even more painful than before:
He said: " We need to apply gentle social pressure on people to bring down their energy use.
"So just as they're doing in California, we will make each energy bill come with an illustration of how much energy people's neighbours are using in comparison to their own usage, inspiring them to consume less in competition."
The Booker is right. With honorable exceptions – such as UKIP and, on the environment at least, the BNP – our political class seem to have absolutely no understanding of the grotesque injustices being inflicted on their electorate in the name of the non-existent threat of "Climate Change."
What will it take, I wonder, for these imbeciles to wake up and smell the coffee? Will a hung Parliament do? Or will it have to be bloody revolution?
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100027173/global-warming-time-to-get-angry/
Push for UK break from European Union
Published: Monday | April 12, 2010
THE EDITOR, Sir:
MANY JAMAICANS will have heard of the European Union (EU). What they will not be aware of is the fact that this political project, which is trying to turn itself into a United States of Europe, with one central government (in Brussels, Belgium), prevents Britain from trading freely with Commonwealth countries.
As a Jamaican now resident in England (but currently spending a few days with family in St Mary) I am very concerned about this, and about the steady destruction of Britain's sovereignty with many laws affecting the United Kingdom (UK) now made in Brussels, not Westminster.
Many people in the UK now want the country to leave the EU, while continuing to trade with it, and to regain its right to self-government. As a result, the UK Independence Party (UKIP) is growing in strength. One of its central policies, along with independence, is the establishment of a Commonwealth Free Trade Area, reconnecting Britain's global trading links.
I am proud to tell you that I am standing as UKIP's parliamentary candidate for Southampton Test, Hampshire, in the general election on May 6.
I find it deeply ironic that, while Jamaica is able to celebrate its independence from British rule every August, a majority of people in Britain now desire independence from a new European empire.
I am, etc.,
PEARLINE HINGSTON
Southampton SO15 7RN
Hampshire, England
http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20100412/letters/letters5.html
Posted: April 2, 2010 01:15 PM
:coffee2:
To Heed President Obama's Call to Strengthen the EU, :mshock: Britain Must First Have a Referendum on Whether to Stay in at All
On his last visit to Britain, President Obama made it clear that he wanted to see Britain play its part in keeping the EU strong. But Britain has a problem with Europe and like Obama, most Americans don't get it. To some extent, this ambiguity goes to the heart of the ambiguity about the EU itself. What is it? Is it a colourless supranational body or an evolving twenty-first century global power?
Sometimes the European Union even behaves like it's trying to keep people confused. Its moves towards an EU defence force over the last decade have been halting. And its decision to appoint a president and foreign policy chief and then give the jobs to two small-time politicians who nobody had heard of before, was confusing.
In short, its behavior leaves many observers asking: how important is it really?
The true reason for the confusion is that us Europeans can't agree what we want the EU to be. If you picture the age-old dispute between the US federal government and the states, then imagine that the states each speak a different language, have their own histories sometimes stretching back thousands of years, and have frequently fought bloody wars - not least two which became the biggest two global conflicts of our planet's history - then you begin to get some idea of the challenge of European integration.
There are a band of heady Euro enthusiasts who see the current make-up of the EU as an imperfect stepping stone to a harmonious union, cooperating on ever more issues and pooling ever more sovereignty. Most countries who have joined in the last thirty years such as Spain, Portugal, Greece, and Poland, see membership as a badge of political maturity and a guarantor of future stability.
Then there are a band of 'Eurosceptics', who see the EU in terms roughly equivalent to how campaigners for states' rights see the federal government - as a threat to their country's national identity and pride. This is particularly true in Britain, the country I know best.
So what are the prospects for the President's call for a Britain which helps keep the EU strong?
On any measure, the answer does not look good. Over the last decade here, the political landscape has moved in a more Eurosceptic direction. Ten years ago, the ruling Labour party were considering joining the Euro, and the opposition Conservatives were split between Europhiles (as Euro-enthusiasts are called) and Eurosceptics. Now, there is no prospect of Britain joining the Euro in the medium-term, the Conservatives are both relatively united around euroscepticism and ahead in the polls, and more people are voting for the UK Independence Party (UKIP) - a party which campaigns for Britain to leave the EU -than ever before. In a few newspapers, the words 'EU', 'euro', and 'European' are practically insults.
Why? Part of the problem is that the debate on the pros and cons of EU membership has long been hamstrung by myths, misinformation, and mendacity. :mblush:And without a healthy flow of facts and evidence, debate on this vital issue has become polluted with credulousness.
On one hand, europhiles barely acknowledge such extraordinary wastefulness as the European Parliament moving from Brussels to work in Strasbourg for one week every single month. On the other, UKIP disingenuously claims that 75% of British legislation comes from the EU. They do not say where they get the figure, but academic studies show that the figure was about 15% in the early nineties and has been closer to 9% since.
If Britain is to heed the President's call any time soon, it will need a bit of straight talk about Europe.
One way of doing this would be with a referendum on whether to stay in the EU. This is not on the agenda, but there is actually a good case for it.
Firstly, more Brits want to leave than ever before. Over the last fourteen years, the number wanting to loosen the UK's ties to the EU rose to over 50%. In a smaller survey for the BBC last year, a full 84% agreed that Britain should vote before transferring any more power to the EU.
Secondly, ever more Brits see the big parties' insistence on denying people a referendum as an arrogant denial of an important shift in public opinion. This, some argue, is why so many people vote for the anti-EU party UKIP in 2004.
Thirdly, there has only ever been one referendum on the issue in 1975, so nobody born after 1957 has ever had their say. And even those who voted to stay in 1975 did not realise what the subsequent cost in regulations on British business would be.
Nor is it hard to see the case which each party could make to its members on the benefits of a referendum. Labour can argue that focus on this issue would expose Tory splits and policy obfuscation on Europe, and their losing Eurosceptic ground to UKIP. The Conservatives can argue that the swing to Euroscpeticism could work to their benefit as Labour are associated with the ever less popular spectre of the EU in the public mind. UKIP will just be happy to have their referendum.
Europhile opponents of a referendum often argue that a Eurosceptic press would misrepresent the Europhile case. But if they believe that the facts and argument are on their side, this, surely, is an argument for more engagement, not less.
But perhaps most of all, a referendum would help Britain to have a better debate about Europe. There are good and bad arguments on both sides. The current lackluster debate allows myths and credulousness to dominate the argument. A referendum would expose them to proper scrutiny, sort the weak arguments from the strong, clear the air, and enable the country to decide what it wants to tell President Obama next time he asks what the UK is going to do to strengthen the EU's voice in the world.
Azeem Ibrahim is Research Scholar at the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University, Board Member of the Institute of Social Policy Understanding and the Chairman and CEO of Ibrahim Associates.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/azeem-ibrahim/to-heed-president-obamas_b_522647.html
April 09, 2010
The Coming British Non-Election
By Peter C Glover
A British election is set for May 6. So, will socialist Labour win a fourth term? Or will the Tory chap with a wind turbine on his house blow away the current bunch? And what difference will it all make in the grander U.N.-sponsored global "I want to work with children and achieve world peace" scheme?
The Obama-esque question for Brits is surely "Are you ready for 'change'?" The simple answer is "No, not at all." Small chance when all three parties are Europhile shades of greenie liberals.
Should our erstwhile allies across the pond be so minded as to get excited about possible "change" in the U.K., with "Cameron Conservatives" ousting Gordon Brown's three-term Labourite socialists, then cool it. Musical chairs among like-minded children never made an impact on grown-up life, and musical chairs with political pygmies has much the same effect. Unless, of course, you are the one left out in the cold. But enough of Al Gore (with the "vanishing Arctic" having expanded in size by over 27 percent since 2007, he's on thin ice as it is).
If my U.S. friends want the inside straight on David Cameron's understanding of conservatism, they might like to know that his first significant act as the new Conservative Party leader was...to distance himself from all things Thatcherite (spine, intellect, hand-bagging, you get the picture). Which is, in effect, to distance oneself from core conservatism itself -- Thatcherism, as Thatcher herself states it, being merely the ability to communicate core conservative values in a popular way.
Cameron then made the environment the top of his agenda -- and duly changed the Party logo from a fiery torch (leading the way) to a (static) green tree, to make the point. Next, he made renewable energy central to his government's policy (he's consistent -- windy eco-rhetoric is high on his agenda) -- even though hydrocarbon fuels, as any knowledgeable energy insider will tell you, make up 87 percent of the world's energy mix and will continue to do for the next fifty years, even with a 50 percent rise in energy demand over that period. This, no matter what politicians may say. Next up, Mr. Cameron laid out his conservative credentials, stating (watch my lips), "No tax cuts".
So thrilled was the British populace with Cameron's policy of "no-change" from Labour's own policies then that even while New Labour was imploding at the polls, Cameron's Conservatives made little political headway. However, since then, Mr. Cameron has moved his policies -- and his popularity -- in the Right direction. Downgrading his environmental ambitions, he offered, among other traditionally conservative commitments, the possibility of tax cuts. Immediately, Cameron's Conservatives moved into poll position, so to speak, but given his obvious predilection for "flip-flopping" over political hurdles, not by much before a still lukewarm British public.
So now a clear winner at the next election seems unlikely, with a "hung Parliament" in the offing in May. (NB. Though a "hung Parliament" is precisely what many liberals would like to see, unfortunately, the liberals banned swinging gibbets in the 1960s -- and you can't have it both ways.)
For years now, U.K. commentators and politicians alike have been watching the decline in numbers voting, citing a "lack of interest in politics" as the reason. But it is not that Brits are uninterested in politics at all. Rather, it is that they are fed up that politicians no longer "represent" their views and are willing to toe the party line and make no fuss about the arrogation of sovereign powers to Brussels.
So why don't more vote for (as I do) for the United Kingdom Independence Party (UKIP), which has vowed to take Britain out of Europe? Well, the fact is that the UKIP started from such a recent and low base -- while increasing their share of the vote at every election -- that many believe that it would be a "wasted vote," and so they vote for a major party on other issues, or they don't vote at all.
It is no surprise that socialist Labourite "centralizers" are happy to submit to centralizing EU socialist rule. And a vote for the Lib Dims is traditionally, as every Brit knows, a vote for the "don't knows" -- except on Europe membership, which, perversely, they do know that they are for. But Europe has always split the modern Conservative Party. Many genuine conservatives know well enough that the EU is an anti-democratic, wholly unaccountable, corrupt, monolithic tyranny. But many Cameron-style, liberal, "modernizer" conservatives do not.
Thus the Conservative Party division over Europe has been papered over, either with defectors (like me) sheltering under the UKIP banner, or plain keeping "shtoom" for the sake of "public unity." Last year, David Cameron ditched a "watch my lips" commitment to holding a Referendum on the Lisbon Treaty (an EU Constitution by another name), reversing a pledge to hold it and revealing that he has no spine for a fight over EU membership -- particularly one he was likely to lose.
But ask Brits which of the 27 EU Commissioners they voted for, or how many Brits voted in the EU President...er, what's 'is name? And the answer is...er, none. So there it is. Britain remains stuck in the centralizing, socialist, de-democratizing mire that is the unelected Eurocracy. Not much point, then, in voting to stop the mass invasion of U.K. shores by European economic immigrants, when the EU has taken away real power over border controls. So why bother voting for any of the three major parties?
And just for good measure, if U.S. conservatives are under the misapprehension that David Cameron will in the future ally with them on a litany of issues, impelled by his grasp of conservative ideology, then think again. Just this week, Cameron has informed the Obama administration that he will side with them (read: join in bullying Israel) on Palestinian issues. And he shares Obama's green, if ludicrously crass, energy and environment objectives. So when you read about the British election and the Conservative vs. Labour vs. Liberal Democrats fight over coming weeks, just think of it as a kind of EU-sponsored "musical chairs."
In short, the coming British election is a total crock, being a "regional" affair only between shades of socializing liberals within an anti-democratic European Super-State. Worse still, in Britain, democracy -- real democracy -- is no longer even in play.
The most significant shortcoming of the fledgling super-state is that it is not, will not be, and indeed cannot be, democratic. Europe ... is a classic utopian project, a monument to the vanity of intellectuals, a programme whose inevitable destiny is failure; only the scale of the final damage is in doubt.
- Margaret Thatcher, Strategies for a Changing World
Peter C Glover is co-author of Energy and Climate Wars: How naive politicians, green ideologues and media elites are undermining the truth about energy and climate, to be published by Continuum, September, 2010.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/04/the_coming_british_nonelection.html
**THE MOST IMPORTANT ACADEMIC ARTICLE YOU WILL EVER READ**
New world order strategist: thirty years ago Richard N. Gardner proposed a "piecemeal" approach to world government. The internationalist insiders have followed his blueprint ever since.
--2004
There have always been individuals who prefer to exercise the substance, rather than enjoy the pageantry, of power. Richard N. Gardner is one of them. Almost unknown to the American public at large, Richard Gardner is arguably one of the most influential men alive--an academic, lawyer, banker, economist and all-around internationalist political insider who for decades has been near the apex of the American and internationalist establishment. Gardner is the intellectual godfather of the modern new world order, an academic counterpart to the David Rockefellers who finance and the Henry Kissingers who lend political support to the accelerating drive for global government.
Thirty years ago, in April 1974, Richard N. Gardner penned an article for the Council on Foreign Relations journal Foreign Affairs, wherein he laid out a coherent, sweeping program for successfully setting up world government. That Richard Gardner's program is still being followed, with considerable success, three decades later, is testament to his cunning as a global strategist; that Gardner himself continues to be a guiding light, so to speak, for Democrat and Republican administrations alike--including the current one--is evidence of his enduring clout among the internationalist set in the United Nations, Congress, the State Department, and elsewhere in the corridors of global power in the United States and Europe.
Even by the ratified standards of the American Eastern Establishment, Gardner's resume is extraordinary. He holds a B.A. in economics from Harvard University, a J.D. from Yale Law School and a Ph.D. in economics from Oxford, where he studied as a Rhodes Scholar. His Oxford thesis is regarded as the "classic" study of Anglo-American diplomacy in the Bretton Woods conference of 1944 and in the creation of the GATT trade agreement. He is a member of both the Council on Foreign Relations and the Trilateral Commission Trilateral Commission
Gardner serves on the International Capital Markets Advisory Committee of the New York Stock Exchange and sits on the boards of two major international banking institutions.
Gardner has long been closely affiliated with the United Nations, including a six-year stint as a member of the U.S. delegation to the UN General Assembly in the 1960s. In 1992 he was a special adviser to the United Nations at the 1992 Earth Summit in Rio de Janeiro . More recently, he has been involved in a UN project involving dialogue with the Chinese Institute of international Studies, the Chinese counterpart of the Council on Foreign Relations.
No less impressive is Gardner's record as an insider in domestic politics. Beginning in 1961, when Gardner left Columbia University to become President John F. Kennedy's deputy assistant secretary of state for international organization affairs, Gardner has served in nearly every presidential administration up to the present day. He was a member of President Richard Nixon's Commission on International Trade and Investment Policy, and served as President Jimmy Carter's ambassador to Italy and President Bill Clinton's ambassador to Spain. He is now a member of President George W. Bush's Advisory Committee on Trade Policy and Negotiations as well as of the State Department's Advisory Committee on International Economic Policy.
The House of World Order
Richard Gardner began writing about world government in the early 1960s. His first book on the subject, In Pursuit of World Order, originally published in 1962, foreshadowed Gardner's later program for world order. Wrote Harlan Cleveland, President Kennedy's assistant secretary of state, in a laudatory foreword to a later edition of the book: "A decent world order will only be built brick by brick. Those who wish to help build it, and not merely to talk about building it, will concentrate on the next brick--on how it can be fashioned, where it belongs, how it will fit, when it should be added to the structure.... Richard Gardner ... has helped fashion most of [these bricks] during the past four years as part of the Kennedy and Johnson Administrations. He understands the process of international institution-building as clearly and deeply as any American of our time."
It was the "brick by brick" approach that obviously inspired Gardner to lay out, a decade later, a comprehensive strategy for world order in an influential article in Foreign Affairs entitled "The Hard Road to World Order." The significance of this article cannot be overstated; it lays bare, in plain if somewhat academic prose, the strategy for global control that internationalist insiders have followed with slavish dedication ever since. Gardner's article is both a strategic summary and a digest of recommended tactics, crucial reading for anyone wishing to make sense out of the multipronged and apparently haphazard internationalist assault on American sovereignty.
"The 'house of world order'," Gardner recommended, "will have to be built from the bottom up rather than from the top down. It will look like a great 'booming, buzzing confusion,' to use William James' famous description of reality, but an end run around national sovereignty, eroding it piece by piece, will accomplish much more than the old-fashioned frontal assault." This would entail the "decentralized, disorderly and pragmatic process of inventing or adapting institutions of limited jurisdiction and selected membership to deal with specific problems on a case-by-case basis, as the necessity for cooperation is perceived by the relevant nations. Such institutions of limited jurisdiction will have a better chance of doing what must be done to make a 'rule of law' possible among nations." Calling for "strengthened international institutions at the global and regional levels," Gardner repudiated the older formula of "building up a few ambitious central institutions of universal membership and general jurisdiction," such as the United Nations itself.
Gardner's program is based on strategic deception--except that the deception is deployed against the American public, not an enemy military force. By building world order one piece at a time, akin to assembling the pieces of a jigsaw puzzle, Gardner and his associates hope to create an illusion of incompetence and disorder--a "booming, buzzing confusion"--to confuse would-be opponents of world government. Even those perceiving the intent behind individual programs can nonetheless be kept from recognizing the overall design, or from recognizing that so many seemingly disparate globalist programs could possibly be connected as part of a coherent strategy.
World Economic Control
As to the tactical details, Gardner's article laid out a number of ambitious policy objectives, most of which remain front-burner priorities for the internationalist insiders. First on the list, Gardner recommended reform of the international monetary system, strengthening the International Monetary Fund with "power to back its decisions by meaningful multilateral sanctions, such as ... the withholding of multilateral and bilateral credits and reserve facilities from recalcitrant deficit countries." The global financial organization was created at the Bretton Woods conference in New Hampshire in 1944. It has indeed been strengthened into an oppressive international creditor and debt collection agency with the power to insist upon stringent terms of "conditionality" for extension of credit, terms that often include constitutional reforms and higher taxation of citizenries of debtor nations. As any Argentine citizen can attest, the IMF
now enjoys the leverage to wreck the economies of entire countries, as it did to Argentina after the latter's default on debts owed in December 2001. The resulting economic collapse was the worst crisis ever experienced in a nation already well acquainted with the ravages of hyperinflation and currency instability.
Gardner's second recommendation was to "rewrite the ground rules for the conduct of international trade," including "seeking new rules in the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade to cover a whole range of hitherto unregulated nontariff barriers." These new trade regulations, Gardner effused, "will subject countries to an unprecedented degree of international surveillance over up to now sacrosanct 'domestic' policies."
This plank of Gardner's program is being very actively fitted in place, and with unprecedented success (if progress towards such an outcome as world government can be so styled) both regionally and globally. At the global level, the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade was completely rewritten and re-ratified in the mid-1990s, and the resulting organization--the World Trade Organization or WTO--was given a broad range of powers to compel member states, including the United States, to accept its rulings on trade policies and disputes. The Bush administration, in fact, recently experienced the business end of the World Trade Organization when, under threat of WTO-mandated trade sanctions levied against the U.S., the administration lifted steel tariffs.
Regionally, the internationalists have had even more success creating transnational trade regimes. The most far-reaching of these, the European Union
which began life back in the late 1950s as the Common Market, has been built into a continental superstate complete with a European parliament and currency, as well as a nearly complete constitution. In the Americas, meanwhile, the North American Free Trade Agreement (Trade pact signed by Canada, the U.S., and Mexico in 1992, which took effect in 1994. Inspired by the success of the European Community in reducing trade barriers among its members ) has unequally yoked the United States to both Canada and Mexico, and the planned Free Trade Area of the Americas (The Free Trade Area of the Americas (FTAA) would extend a NAFTA-type arrangement to the entire Western Hemisphere (except Cuba) and possess more powers than NAFTA.) The FTAA if put into effect, would wreak even more havoc than NAFTA, creating a massive outflux of jobs and factories from the U.S. and leading, over time, to a complete subordination of American government to a continental government authority--akin to what the once independent nations of Europe have experienced within the EU. Trade, in other words , has become one of the most important pretexts for international government, as Gardner clearly anticipated 30 years ago.
"Global Commons"
Another key element of Gardner's 1974 program is "continued strengthening of the new global and regional agencies charged with protecting the world's environment." This would include "international agencies ... given broader powers to promulgate and revise standards limiting air and ocean pollution." Since 1992, when the UN-sponsored international environmental conference at Rio de Janeiro begat Agenda 21, a massive blueprint for a 21st-century international environmental regime, global environmentalists have been on the offensive. (And remember that Gardner was at the summit as a special adviser to ensure the success of this particular plank.) Five years later the UN adopted the Kyoto Protocol, a massive, sovereignty-sapping treaty imposing international pollution emissions standards and other environmentally motivated controls on government and industry worldwide. The United States has so far refused to sign the treaty, but the current Bush administration is trying to implement the Kyoto standards anyway--no doubt with the encouragement of pro-world government insiders sympathetic with the political aims of global environmentalism
"In the 1974 Law of the Sea Conference and beyond," predicted Gardner, "there should eventually emerge a new international regime governing the world's oceans." What's more, he expected that "the regulatory responsibilities of the new oceans agency are likely to exceed those of any existing international organization." Giving the United Nations ultimate jurisdiction over the so-called "global commons"--which includes most prominently the oceans but is also intended to mean the atmosphere, the electromagnetic spectrum , and even circumjacent outer space--is a very high priority item for the internationalist set. The Law of the Sea Treaty was completed in 1982, but the United States refused to sign it, citing apprehensions about sovereignty. President Clinton later signed a retooled version of the treaty but was rebuffed by the Senate, led by Senator Jesse Helms (R-N C.), which refused to ratify it.
Now the treaty is under review yet again by the Senate, with Senator Lugar (R-Ind.), a staunch internationalist, pushing for speedy ratification. Fortunately for those anxious to preserve American independence, the treaty's progress has been slowed by negative publicity and critical testimony at Senate hearings.
J. William Middendorf, former secretary of the navy, testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee
on April 8 that the Law of the Sea Treaty represented nothing less than "a turning point for the U.S. in the history of international relations." Referring to the international regulatory authorities and compulsory jurisdiction brought into existence by the treaty, Middendorf said that the Law of the Sea Convention "presents the U.S. with a stark choice. On the one hand, the U.S. may enter into this treaty and proceed on a path that cedes U.S. sovereignty to executive and quasi-judicial international authority with compulsory powers or reject the treaty and stick to the tried and true international system where relations are established between and among sovereign states."
Among potentially fatal pitfalls of this treaty, Middendorf identified, in addition to loss of sovereignty per se, "unnecessary limitations on the exploitation of resources" (meaning seabed and other marine resources, access to which will be strictly controlled and parceled out by the UN), "a step in the direction of international taxing authority," and "unnecessary risks to national security."
Given the revolutionary nature of the Law of the Sea Treaty, it's no wonder that Gardner promoted it as a critical component of the New World Order assembly line. Nevertheless, this treaty may come up for a vote in the full Senate later this year, with another huge chunk of American sovereignty hanging in the balance.
Monopoly on Arms
"The Hard Road to World Order" also anticipated a growing involvement of the United Nations in military matters, both in expanding its disarmament drive to include "conventional weapons" and in enlarging its misnamed "peacekeeping operations." Disarmament remains a pet conceit of the internationalist coterie, for reasons laid out in the early '60s in the U.S. government's "Program for General and Complete Disarmament in a Peaceful World," introduced at the 16th UN General Assembly and printed by the U.S. State Department under the title Freedom From War. The program envisaged disarming all nations to such an extent that, eventually, "no state would have the military power to challenge the progressively strengthened U.N. Peace Force." Gardner praised this program and referred to it extensively in his book In Pursuit of World Order. To this day, efforts to strip the United States of its nuclear weapons proceed apace with instruments such as the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (CTBT ), which the United States has made a policy of observing despite not having ratified it.
In what is being set forth as a new test case of the global disarmament regime, the nation of Libya has recently submitted to a comprehensive regime of inspection and disarmament. Not that disarming Qaddafi is a bad thing; of greater concern is the precedent being established that failure to submit unconditionally to international weapons inspections will lead to invasion and subjugation '
The systematic conquest of the prostrate peoples of the Middle East will eventually be replicated elsewhere, as an emboldened global regime insists on holding the American government--and American citizens--to the same standard of other UN tributary nations. Already, the United Nations is aggressively promoting "microdisarmament"--that is, the confiscation of weapons from civilian hands--as well as the eradication of any military weapons, like land mines, that it deems distasteful.
As for peacekeeping, the UN's record in recent years scarcely needs comment. From Somalia to the Balkans to Sierra Leone to Afghanistan, United Nations peacekeepers have become nearly ubiquitous enforcers of world order out of the barrel of a gun. In Iraq as well, the push is on to place the United Nations in charge of occupying forces there--just as it was the United Nations under whose authority the original Gulf War, and its 12-year aftermath of bombing raids and crippling sanctions, was carried out.
Throat and Hope
All of these developments were plotted out, in essence, in Richard Gardner's seminal article three decades ago. Unfortunately, the strategy of piecemeal buildup, of "booming, buzzing confusion," has worked all too well, as Gardner himself predicted it would: "The case-by-case approach can produce some remarkable concessions of 'sovereignty' that could not be achieved on an across-the-board basis," he wrote. Yet informed Americans who oppose world government should take comfort in the fact that the internationalist insiders have had to resort to Gardner's "piecemeal" strategy in the first place. If the insiders could have accomplished overtly and instantly what they are now piecing together through stealth and patient gradualism they surely would have done so. They've had to proceed slowly and cautiously on their "Hard Road to World Order," and their slowness and caution shows that they fear awakening the American people if they try to do too much too fast.
However, if Americans are to halt the engineered slide into world government, they will have to recognize that it is happening not by chance but as a result of a brilliantly conceived and consistently executed strategy calculated to confuse the opposition. And thanks to Richard Gardner, one of its chief architects, it's still an open secret after all these years.
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/New+world+order+strategist:+thirty+years+ago+Richard+N.+Gardner...-a0116525587
A chip that makes your pc look like it's backing up in slow motion? I'm shocked and surprised! :mshock: :gangel:
The world's fastest silicon-based microchip has been demonstrated by scientists in the US.
The prototype operates at speeds up to 500 gigahertz (GHz), more than 100 times faster than desktop PC chips.
To break the world record, the researchers from IBM and the Georgia Institute of Technology had to super-cool the chip with liquid helium.
..........
This temperature is just above absolute zero, the theoretical minimum temperature possible. When cooled, the chips were able to perform half a trillion calculations every second, a speed of 500 GHz.
By comparison, a powerful desktop PC is capable of about five billion calculations per second.
"A decade ago we couldn't even envisage being able to run at these speeds," said Professor Ahlgren.
Next generation
At room temperature the experimental chips still managed to outperform standard silicon chips, running at about 350 billion calculations per second.
However, the researchers say they can push them even further.
"We observe effects in these devices at cryogenic temperatures which potentially make them faster than simple theory would suggest," said Professor John Cressler of the Georgia Institute of Technology.
The team believes it is possible to make chips run at 1,000 Ghz, or one Terahertz, at room temperature.
"Understanding the basic physics of these advanced transistors arms us with knowledge that could make the next generation of silicon-based integrated circuits even better," said Professor Cressler.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/5099584.stm
Quote from: Molly on April 20, 2010, 02:10:41 AMWhen cooled, the chips were able to perform half a trillion calculations every second, a speed of 500 GHz.
Ghz isn't a synonym for calculations/speed. It's just part of the equation. Because the article seems to use the term interchangeble I still don't know what they really mean.
But still very good speed :winkgrin:
QuoteBut still very good speed
What will they do with the world's fastest chip?
Will they log all your nicknames from 'bunny' to 'skip'?
Will they cross-reference you with each purchase and tip?
Oh, what will they do with the world's fastest chip? :dontknow:
SIN BINS FOR WORST FAMILIES THOUSANDS of the worst families in England are to be put in "sin bins" in a bid to change their bad behaviour, Ed Balls announced yesterday.
The Children's Secretary set out £400million plans to put 20,000 problem families under 24-hour CCTV super-vision in their own homes.They will be monitored to ensure that children attend school, go to bed on time and eat proper meals.
Private security guards will also be sent round to carry out home checks, while parents will be given help to combat drug and alcohol addiction.
Around 2,000 families have gone through these Family Intervention Projects so far.
But ministers want to target 20,000 more in the next two years, with each costing between £5,000 and £20,000 – a potential total bill of £400million.
Ministers hope the move will reduce the number of youngsters who get drawn into crime because of their chaotic family lives, as portrayed in Channel 4 comedy drama Shameless.
Sin bin projects operate in half of council areas already but Mr Balls wants every local authority to fund them.
He said: "This is pretty tough and non-negotiable support for families to get to the root of the problem. There should be Family Intervention Projects in every local authority area because every area has families that need support."
But Shadow Home Secretary Chris Grayling said: "This is all much too little, much too late.
"This Government has been in power for more than a decade during which time anti-social behaviour, family breakdown and problems like alcohol abuse and truancy have just got worse and worse."
Mr Balls also said responsible parents who make sure their children behave in school will get new rights to complain about those who allow their children to disrupt lessons.
Pupils and their families will have to sign behaviour contracts known as Home School Agreements before the start of every year, which will set out parents' duties to ensure children behave and do their homework.
The updated Youth Crime Action Plan also called for a crackdown on violent girl gangs as well as drug and alcohol abuse among young women.
But a decision to give ministers new powers to intervene with failing local authority Youth Offending Teams was criticised by council leaders.
Les Lawrence, of the Local Government Association, said they did "crucial" work and such intervention was "completely unnecessary".
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/115736/Sin-bins-for-worst-families
And you thought 'religion' was bad? :mblush:
Quote from: Molly on April 20, 2010, 08:59:44 AM
QuoteBut still very good speed
What will they do with the world's fastest chip?
Be assured there will be a use for it.
The PC you are using right now. No matter how outdated is vastly superior to anything the Pentagon and NASA had during the first space mission. My fist PC had 8Kb of memory (1982 IIRC) My current PC has a million times more. Totally unbelieveble at that time.
I truely believe that kind of computing power can be beneficial. For medical science for example. But, unfortunately, I also truely believe it will be used for less positive things.....
Quote from: Molly on April 20, 2010, 08:59:44 AM
What will they do with the world's fastest chip?
Lots of things. At some point the speed of the chip that is in the computer your using to post on this forum was the worlds fastest chip.
The fact that you own a computer at all has help support the effort to make a faster one.
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on April 22, 2010, 04:45:20 PM
Quote from: Molly on April 20, 2010, 08:59:44 AM
What will they do with the world's fastest chip?
Lots of things. At some point the speed of the chip that is in the computer your using to post on this forum was the worlds fastest chip.
The fact that you own a computer at all has help support the effort to make a faster one.
That was really a rhetorical question.
But this isn't: Why am I using such outdated technology while they announce a chip that is 100 times faster? What happened to the chip that was 2 times faster? And the one that was 3 times faster? and the one that was 4 times faster? Where are those chips? How old is this technology I'm using anyway? 50 years? 60 years? 70 years? 100 years? They told me it was the best technology available.
Would someone please show me the world's fastest chip?
There is many a slip between the cup and the lip.
Between the cup and the lip is lots of stuff that only exists in labs, on road maps.
Plus advertising blah blah. They can't keep silent if Intel speaks about light based technology.
Quote from: WhiteWings on April 22, 2010, 05:25:27 PM
Between the cup and the lip is lots of stuff that only exists in labs, on road maps.
Plus advertising blah blah. They can't keep silent if Intel speaks about light based technology.
Only exists in labs? You mean it's not being used for anything?
Maybe this poem will land in a chip.
And make it to Mars on the back of a ship.
Quote from: Molly on April 22, 2010, 05:13:04 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on April 22, 2010, 04:45:20 PM
Quote from: Molly on April 20, 2010, 08:59:44 AM
What will they do with the world's fastest chip?
Lots of things. At some point the speed of the chip that is in the computer your using to post on this forum was the worlds fastest chip.
The fact that you own a computer at all has help support the effort to make a faster one.
That was really a rhetorical question.
But this isn't: Why am I using such outdated technology while they announce a chip that is 100 times faster? What happened to the chip that was 2 times faster? And the one that was 3 times faster? and the one that was 4 times faster? Where are those chips? How old is this technology I'm using anyway? 50 years? 60 years? 70 years? 100 years? They told me it was the best technology available.
Would someone please show me the world's fastest chip?
Between the cup and the lip is many a slip.
If you want to spend the money, you could probably buy each chip as it is developed. If you'd like to fund an R&D project and give someone a few million, I'm sure they'd give you the first one.
If you do not have that much money, then your going to get the one that has been put into mass production.
If you do not have that much money, then you will get the budget one or a used one.
If you do not have that much money, then you'll do without or rely on someone giving you one.
Simple.
It's all about money? :dontknow:
You mean if I had enough money I wouldn't have to use 100 year old technology?
Then who has the money for the world's fastest chip?
Someone must have it, hence my little quip.
Quote from: Molly on April 22, 2010, 05:28:01 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on April 22, 2010, 05:25:27 PM
Between the cup and the lip is lots of stuff that only exists in labs, on road maps.
Plus advertising blah blah. They can't keep silent if Intel speaks about light based technology.
Only exists in labs? You mean it's not being used for anything?
Some things are not practical for everyday use. There might be a chip that performs a certain function that was used as a test product for something that gets put into mass production. There may be a chip that only tests new materials for making chips that have no practical use other than seeing how hot something can get before it fails and what is needed to keep it cool enough to function.
Nothing wrong with that, it is often how R&D ends up into something you can use on your desk at work.
Yep, it may end up in a guided missle too.
Quote from: Molly on April 22, 2010, 05:41:13 PM
It's all about money? :dontknow:
You mean if I had enough money I wouldn't have to use 100 year old technology?
Then who has the money for the world's fastest chip?
Someone must have it, hence my little quip.
Why isn't it about money? Do you think you deserve one for free?
So it's all about money and nothing's for free
A chip isn't funny when it's hidden from me
Do you really think you could ever deserve
All the things that God gave so few people, said he?
Quote from: Molly on April 22, 2010, 05:50:23 PM
So it's all about money and nothing's for free
A chip isn't funny when it's hidden from me
Do you really think you could ever deserve
All the things that God gave so few people, said he?
Start a company to make chips with glee
then you can show the world you can give everything away for free.
But somebody has the money and they are using a chip that is 100 times faster than this one, give or take, for what?
And where did they get that money for free
Elementary, dear Watson, from you and from me
Quote from: Molly on April 22, 2010, 06:00:30 PM
But somebody has the money and they are using a chip that is 100 times faster than this one, give or take, for what?
And where did they get that money for free
Elementary, dear Watson, from you and from me
To do things faster, if you do not like that, then go get a slower computer. I could come up with some really slow ones that makes yours 100 times faster.
If my money has went into better technology, I am fine with that.
I like the fact that if I have the money I can go get something faster than I have now. Since I do not right now, I enjoy what I have.
Quote from: Molly on April 22, 2010, 05:41:13 PMYou mean if I had enough money I wouldn't have to use 100 year old technology?
So you think in 1910 someone was surfing on the internet with the same type of PC you have right now?
Quote from: WhiteWings on April 22, 2010, 06:30:45 PM
Quote from: Molly on April 22, 2010, 05:41:13 PMYou mean if I had enough money I wouldn't have to use 100 year old technology?
So you think in 1910 someone was surfing on the internet with the same type of PC you have right now?
I do know that the computer you were using circa 1982 was counting to a million on its fingers before it executed an instruction--to slow it down. By 1910, they had invented just about everything we got to use in the 20th century, maybe with some exceptions like the microprocessor, but they tend to keep such discoveries hidden from the general public so it's hard to know. I love the simultaneous independent inventions, though.
The computer chip, or integrated circuit, was developed in the late 1950s by two researchers who were working independently of one another. Jack Kilby (1923– ) developed a chip at Texas Instruments in 1958, and Robert Noyce (1927–1990) invented a similar device at Fairchild Semiconductor in 1959. The computer chip is an electronic device made of a very small piece of silicon (a nonmetallic element that, next to oxygen, is the most abundant element in the Earth's crust), which is usually less than one-quarter inch, or one centimeter, square. A computer microprocessor is a single chip that holds all of the computer's logic and arithmetic. It is responsible for interpreting and executing instructions given by a computer program (software). The microprocessor can be thought of as the brain of the computer's operating system. http://www.enotes.com/history-fact-finder/science-invention/when-was-first-computer-chip-developed
Molly, I'm not denying electronics exists for a long time. It's that I don't believe that the CPU that's now in my PC existed 100 years ago. When the US fought the Germans in WW2 they used what they got. I don't think they secretly had stealth jests/bombers and cruise missiles.
QuoteI do know that the computer you were using circa 1982 was counting to a million on its fingers before it executed an instruction--to slow it down.
And since then the CPUs stayed the same speed but the loop got decreased to say 10,000?
1968A two-ton, three-foot high, 21-foot diameter, IBM-assembled Instrument Unit guides the Apollo 8 astronauts in the first manned circumlunar flight. IBM computers in Houston monitor almost every phase of the mission, including the heartbeats of the astronauts. The computers, five System/360 Model 75s at the Manned Spacecraft Center, work in real-time — so fast there is virtually no time between receiving and solving an Apollo computing problem.
NASA delves deeper into theoretical space exploration, becoming the first customer to receive an IBM System/360 Model 91.
The computer, the fastest, most powerful ever put into user operation, is used for deep space simulations.
http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/space/space_chronology2.html
http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/mainframe/mainframe_PP2075.html
I would guess it's about 386 speed.
That said it's true that consumer PCs might lag 20 years behind the fastest computers around. But that's not secrecy. That's economics. Currently NASA is building a super computer with everyday components.
1024 Intel Itanium CPUs. Nothing stops you from buying those CPUs too. Well perhaps the cost of $4500
each.
I just checked my bankaccount and decided to stick to my humble quad core PC :winkgrin:
QuoteWhen the US fought the Germans in WW2 they used what they got. I don't think they secretly had stealth jests/bombers and cruise missiles.
That's not necessarily true. We fight wars today without using our most advanced weapons.
Why do you think that might be?
In 1907, the Russian scientist Boris Rosing (who worked with Vladimir Zworykin) used a CRT in the receiver of a television system that at the camera end made use of mirror-drum scanning. Rosing transmitted crude geometrical patterns onto the television screen and was the first inventor to do so using a CRT.
Modern phosphor screens using multiple beams of electrons have allowed CRTs to display millions of colors.http://inventors.about.com/od/cstartinventions/a/CathodeRayTube.htm
Quote from: Molly on April 23, 2010, 01:37:34 AM
QuoteWhen the US fought the Germans in WW2 they used what they got. I don't think they secretly had stealth jests/bombers and cruise missiles.
That's not necessarily true. We fight wars today without using our most advanced weapons.
Why do you think that might be?
Because you said technology is hidden for a hundred years. USAF started showing of with their stealth stuff a few years back. Meaning it already existed during WW2, and even WW1.
QuoteWe fight wars today without using our most advanced weapons.
Meaning the very best stuff the US army has? Or the best 100 year old stuff they have?
Quote from: wwUSAF started showing of with their stealth stuff a few years back. Meaning it already existed during WW2, and even WW1.
LOL! You're just feeding me lines, right? Take a look at the picture.
Nazis were close to building stealth bomber that could have changed course of history Nazi engineers were dangerously close to building a stealth warplane shielded from radar that could have changed the outcome of World War II.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/5773358/Nazis-were-close-to-building-stealth-bomber-that-could-have-changed-course-of-history.html
Quote from: Molly on April 23, 2010, 07:22:10 AM
Quote from: wwUSAF started showing of with their stealth stuff a few years back. Meaning it already existed during WW2, and even WW1.
LOL! You're just feeding me lines, right?
Keep chewing Molly :winkgrin:
QuoteTake a look at the picture.
Nazis were close to building stealth bomber that could have changed course of history
Nazi engineers were dangerously close to building a stealth warplane shielded from radar that could have changed the outcome of World War II.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/5773358/Nazis-were-close-to-building-stealth-bomber-that-could-have-changed-course-of-history.html
I really wonder if that plane would be able to really work in real life.
The US "wing" can't be flown by a pilot. It's shape is such it would fall out of the air if not constantly comensated by computers.
But Molly that was not really my point. Say the Germans had a plane equally good as the current US stealth planes. Or even 5x better if you wish. The point is that The German certainly would have used the plane if it was really ready. Hitler wouldn't have said: Well done enginering team. Now lock up the plane until 2044. And if the US would have layed their hand on the blue prints I'm sure they would have build it long ago. For example to display US superority during teh cold war with the USSR.
Beam me up Scotty :laughing7:
Those Germans are some brilliant engineers. You can bet if they were building this plane [for Goering, no less] it was going to fly. They had the helicoptor before the war and have you ever checked out their flying 'disc'? Looks suspiciously like a UFO.
I think you might be looking at the wrong paradigm. You seem to think wars are all about one side winning.
QuoteIt's shape is such it would fall out of the air if not constantly comensated by computers.
I rest my case. :happygrin:
In 1943 Luftwaffe chief Hermann Goering demanded that designers come up with a bomber that would meet his '1,000, 1,000, 1,000' requirements – one that could carry 1,000kg over 1,000km flying at 1,000km/h.
Two pilot brothers in their thirties, Reimar and Walter Horten, suggested a "flying wing" design which they were sure would meet Goering's specifications
A prototype of the Horten Ho 2-29 made a successful test flight just before Christmas 1944.--IBID
Quote from: Molly on April 23, 2010, 07:55:44 AM
QuoteIt's shape is such it would fall out of the air if not constantly comensated by computers.
I rest my case. :happygrin:
Because you think that proves your CPU claim? If so.. bad luck for you. :winkgrin:
Just look at the pics of old IBM super computers used during the first US spacemissions. Vastly underspeced and so big they don't even fit in a wing. Weight and power requirements are another problem.
QuoteBecause you think that proves your CPU claim? If so.. bad luck for you.
No. Because it would heavily imply that the silicon chip [made from the second most abundant element on earth] was really developed long before Misters Kilby and Noyce made their serendipitous simultaneous independent inventions circa 1958.
You don't think they really went to the moon using that IBM clunker, do you?
By the way, those same Nazi's were in charge of NASA.
Wernher Magnus Maximilian Freiherr[1] von Braun (March 23, 1912 – June 16, 1977) was a German-American rocket scientist, astronautics engineer and space architect, becoming one of the leading figures in the creation of rocket technology in Germany and the United States. He was a member of the Nazi party and a commissioned SS officer. Wernher von Braun was said to be the preeminent rocket engineer of the 20th century.[2]
After the war, he and some of his rocket team were taken to the United States as part of the then-secret Operation Paperclip. In 1955, ten years after entering the country, von Braun became a naturalized U.S. citizen.
Von Braun worked on the US Army intermediate range ballistic missile (IRBM) program before his group was assimilated by NASA, under which he served as director of the newly formed Marshall Space Flight Center and as the chief architect of the Saturn V launch vehicle, the superbooster that propelled the Apollo spacecraft to the Moon.[3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun
'If the rockets go up, who cares where they come down?
That's not my department, says Wernher von Braun.'
Quote from: Molly on April 23, 2010, 09:41:34 AMYou don't think they really went to the moon using that IBM clunker, do you?
Nope the CPU power in the rocket was about equal to my pocket calculator... Those clunkers were used on on the NASA base.
Quote from: WhiteWings on April 23, 2010, 10:08:01 AM
Quote from: Molly on April 23, 2010, 09:41:34 AMYou don't think they really went to the moon using that IBM clunker, do you?
Nope the CPU power in the rocket was about equal to my pocket calculator... Those clunkers were used on on the NASA base.
Yes, your pocket calculator got us to the moon on top of a huge firecracker.
Let's go!
Read the new book:
"Climategate: A Veteran Meteorologist Exposes The Global Warming Scam "
Confirmed! Global warming is 'settled' – as a scam
'Climategate' author unveils evidence of 'every deception imaginable'
Posted: April 20, 2010
9:18 pm Eastern
By Bob Unruh
© 2010 WorldNetDaily
Al Gore's insistence that global warming is "settled science" has been used to defend claims humanity is on the edge of destroying the world. Now author Brian Sussman, whose book "Climategate" is being released Thursday – Earth Day – agrees it's "settled," as a scam.
Sussman unveils in his book evidence that the move to restrict carbon-dioxide emissions, tax a multitude of energy programs and create a "Big Brother" that would limit household energy use, among other programs, is a move to give government unlimited control over people.
National Public Radio reported in 2007 how Gore took his "climate-change crusade" to Congress and said the science on the issue was "settled." Then in 2009 the Environmental Protection Agency declared carbon dioxide and other emissions are endangering the future of the world.
Be the first to see the full documentation of how your life could be changed by climate-related laws, taxes and regulations, in "Climategate"
Sussman's book, the newest title by WND Books, has been charting for several weeks already among Amazon's top 10 preordered titles. It warns that believing global warming is "settled science" is a danger itself.
He writes that the now-notorious intercepted e-mails that reveal leading global-warming supporters exchanging plans to squelch critics and falsify data are just the tip of the iceberg.
If you thought the record cold winter, expanding polar ice and other factors would make global-warming supporters "chill out," guess again, he writes.
"These people have a plan and they intend to control much more than your thermostat," the book says.
In "Climategate," he explains the science of the subject and how politics have taken control of the data. Further, he explains how many of the global-warming promoters are out to make a buck for themselves.
"It's obvious to everyone that this global-warming facade is in meltdown mode," said Joseph Farah, publisher of WND Books and founder and CEO of WorldNetDaily.com. "Now Brian's important book comes along just in time to reveal exactly why this Big Lie was foisted on us to begin with and what we can do to stop it cold."
Among other things, "Climategate" reveals the underlying fraud of environmentalism in America. It also depicts the myth that global warming is the consensus of the scientific community.
The book traces the origins of a "climate-scare" agenda to the "diabolical minds of Marx and Engels in the 1800s – down the ages to the global governance of the United Nations today."
On the issue of carbon dioxide, the book points out that nature needs carbon dioxide and generates it through multiple natural processes to ensure its availability.
"Decomposing vegetation, the carcasses of dead animals, forest fires, smoldering peat bogs, volcanoes, plowed soil, weathering rocks, human utilization of fossil fuels, and even termites and crustacean shells – all exude carbon dioxide beneficial to the plant kingdom," he writes. "And the more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, the more content the plants become – just ask anyone who has worked in a greenhouse.
"In fact, that is a portion of the carbon-dioxide debate no one bothers to address – the plant kingdom would abound if carbon-dioxide levels were to increase in the global atmosphere," he writes.
WND previously reported among the topics discussed in the book is whether there soon could be "Green Goon Squads" at your door, checking your energy usage.
The author explains federal legislation includes a set of regulations for energy efficiency that will be enforced "by a national, green goon squad."
"The legislation also authorizes the Secretary of Energy to 'enhance compliance by conducting training and education of builders and other professionals in the jurisdiction concerning the national energy-efficiency building code.'"
Sussman warns the focus is not to save energy and money.
"It's a social-engineering scheme, designed and promoted by the federal government to change your behavior," he said.
Pollution actually has been decreasing, significantly, he documents.
From 1980 to 2005, for example, he wrote, "Fine particulate matter declined 40 percent. Ozone levels declined 20 percent, and days per year exceeding the 8-hour ozone standard fell seventy-nine percent. Nitrogen-dioxide levels decreased 37 percent, sulfur dioxide dropped 63 percent and carbon-monoxide concentrations were reduced by 74 percent. Lead levels were lowered by 96 percent."
Neither are temperatures rising, he documents.
"Since 2007, global temperatures are engaged in a significant downward spiral, with government data illustrating a 1°F (.65°C) drop in temperature between 2007 and 2008 alone," he reports.
He reports on e-mails that were hacked from the Climatic Research Unit at the University of East Anglia, which contain references to "hiding" information.
"The Climatic Research Unit had been regarded by many as one of the most credible atmospheric institutions in the world, but with the revelation of the e-mail exchanges, their supposed credibility was reduced to junk science," Sussman writes.
"The e-mails reveal that the world's leading climate scientists were working together to block Freedom of Information requests to review their data, marginalize dissenting scientists, manipulate the peer-review process, and obscure, massage or delete inconvenient temperature readings. One certainly wonders, why? Especially since Al Gore has assured the world that 'the science is settled.'"
Taking on the EPA directly, Sussman says, "Carbon dioxide only accounts for thirty-eight-thousandths of a percent of our planet's atmosphere. It is known as a variable gas, because, like water vapor, it has historically fluctuated. And what percentage of the minuscule amount of CO2 is produced by the activities of man, including the utilization of fossil fuels? According to a thorough analysis by the Carbon Dioxide Information Analysis Center, a research wing of the U.S. Department of Energy, it is only 3.207 percent. All of this hoopla over an atmospheric component so minute, it is difficult to comprehend."
What could be driving the agenda of global warming? Dollars, he suggests.
"It's widely reported that Al Gore is worth at least $100 million, although my well-connected [source] believes it may be closer to $500 million. Quite a success story for a guy, who, according to financial-disclosure records released just prior to his bid for the presidency, had a net worth near $2 million," he writes.
University of East Anglia Climatic Research Unit
Last December, the EPA signed two findings that concluded greenhouse gases in the atmosphere "threaten the public health and welfare of current and future generations." The EPA's rulings could mean thousands of dollars in additional taxes for individual consumers.
Energy and Commerce Committee Ranking Member Joe Barton, R-Texas, then cited the doubts about the integrity of "climate change" science in a letter and asked for an accounting of U.S. taxpayer support for the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.
The U.S. since 1994 has given some $50 million to the panel, and contributions under President Obama now have doubled.
Sussman, formerly a highly acclaimed San Francisco meteorologist, also is the newest morning host at KSFO Radio (560 AM), the highest-rated talk show in the San Francisco Bay Area and the fourth-largest radio market in the country.
In the original scandal that spawned the name Climategate, the hacked e-mails of Phil Jones, head of the Climatic Research Unit in Norwich, England, and others uncovered schemes to employ "tricks" with warming trends, squelch skeptics and defame journals that published them.
Earth Day is all the evidence of deception needed, said Sussman. First celebrated in 1970 on the 100th anniversary of the birth of communist leader Vladimir Lenin, it was founded by Sen. Gaylord Nelson, D-Wis.; former Stanford student-body president Denis Hayes; and author and Stanford professor Paul Ehrlich.
"Lenin's core political philosophy was linked at the hip with these newly fangled environmentalists who maintained that America's government must be altered, its economy planned and regulated, and its citizens better controlled," writes Sussman. "The environment would be the perfect tool to force these changes, and the most efficient way to gain converts would be through the public-school system – the earlier the better."
Sen. James M. Inhofe, R-Okla., has suggested the Justice Department investigate scientists for potentially falsifying data. And the Orange County Register has posted a chart for consumers to try to keep up with all the scandals developing in the "global warming" community.
Among the scandals listed are:
ClimateGate: The scandal over the Climatic Research Unit e-mails from East Anglia.
FOIGate: In which British officials are investigating whether East Anglia scientists refused to follow that nation's freedom-of-information law about their work.
ChinaGate: In which dozens of weather monitoring stations in rural China apparently have simply disappeared. This would lead to higher temperature averages since city levels frequently are warmer.
HimalayaGate: In which an Indian climate official admitted in January that he falsely claimed Himalayan glaciers would melt away by 2035 to prod governments into action.
And PachauriGates I and II, SternGates I and II, AmazonGate (in which a claim that global warming would wipe out rain forests was exposed as a fraud), PeerReviewGate, RussianGate I and II and nearly a dozen others.
WND also reported recently when the St. Louis–based Peabody Energy, the largest private coal company in the world, petitioned the EPA to re-examine its decisions in light of the controversy over the scientists' e-mails.
The company noted the "seriousness of the flaws" in the work.
Given the EPA's "extensive reliance" on those reports, "the agency has no legal option but to re-examine the Endangerment Finding in light of this new information," the petition said.
On its website, the company said the EPA's earlier ruling "could mean regulation of hundreds of thousands and perhaps millions of buildings, farms, businesses and other facilities in the U.S."
Texas officials also have filed a lawsuit accusing the federal government of using "tainted" information to arrive at the EPA conclusion and it asks that the EPA's decisions be set aside. Virginia's attorney general, Ken Cuccinelli, also filed a petition demanding the EPA reconsider its greenhouse-gas finding.
The scientific community actually is anything but unanimous on climate change.
The disunity is documented by the Petition Project, launched some 10 years ago when the first few thousand signatures were gathered. The effort by Art Robinson, a research professor of chemistry and cofounder of the Linus Pauling Institute of Science and Medicine in 1973, now lists tens of thousands of qualified scientists who endorse the following statement:
There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gases is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth's atmosphere and disruption of the Earth's climate. Moreover, there is substantial scientific evidence that increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide produce many beneficial effects upon the natural plant and animal environments of the Earth.
Among the original e-mails hacked from East Anglia and posted online was, "The fact is that we can't account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can't. The CERES data published in the August (Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society) 09 supplement on 2008 shows there should be even more warming: but the data are surely wrong. Our observing system is inadequate."
Be the first to see the full documentation of how your life could be changed by climate-related laws, taxes and regulations, in "Climategate"
http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=143181
"Confirmed! Global warming is 'settled' – as a scam"
Film at 11.
Socratic: duh.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkRIbUT6u7Q
www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkhX5W7JoWI
Quote from: Molly on April 23, 2010, 10:10:15 AM
Quote from: WhiteWings on April 23, 2010, 10:08:01 AM
Quote from: Molly on April 23, 2010, 09:41:34 AMYou don't think they really went to the moon using that IBM clunker, do you?
Nope the CPU power in the rocket was about equal to my pocket calculator... Those clunkers were used on on the NASA base.
Yes, your pocket calculator got us to the moon on top of a huge firecracker.
Let's go!
Pretty much. The rockets used to get to the moon were ballistic missiles retro-fitted to carry humans. With good ballistic assessment, and the gravity of the moon to influence things even more, it doesn't take much more than good ground calculations and aiming to get a rocket to head for a moon impact. All of the computers were really tracking more than guidance.
Al Gore ought to be down in the Gulf of Mexico helping on the clean up of the underwater oil leaking gusher instead of just preaching about the enviroment. He can do some of the dirty work himself and not just preach only and be such a sour faced hypocrite about it all.
Chances of Al Gore ever doing that are slim to nothing simply because there isn't the big dollars to be made in doing dirty work, not when he has aleady made his fortune 10 times over playing the global warming con game like a broken record that is stuck to play over and over until it is turned off.
Fire Walker
FW,
Until he gets the bright idea to set up a "Global oil spill cleaning fund."
Quote from: firewalkerAl Gore ought to be down in the Gulf of Mexico helping on the clean up of the underwater oil leaking gusher instead of just preaching about the enviroment.
He's probably too busy building 30 foot high seawalls to keep his new California mansion dry when the polar ice caps melt... :happygrin:
Al Gore Spent Nine Million Carbon Credits on New HouseThis morning I was chugging some Milwaukee's Best (hey it's noon somewhere) in my above-ground pool behind my Bonnavilla Double Wide, and tossing last night's roast to my dog, when my cousin showed up and said "Hey! You seen that new house Al and Tipper Gore bought in Montecito?!"
"No! Why don't you shut up!"
After she left I decided I needed to check this baby out. So off to the L.A. Times website I went...
The couple spent $8,875,000 on an ocean-view villa on 1.5 acres with a swimming pool, spa and fountains, a real estate source familiar with the deal confirms. The Italian-style house has six fireplaces, five bedrooms and nine bathrooms.Wow. I bet that thing is super energy-efficient. Six fireplaces? Burning wood is great for the environment, and really necessary in Santa Barbara. And hey, there's always room to add an airstrip later so his buddy Harrison Ford could come visit.
I was gonna ask how this con man sleeps at night, but I would guess it's probably on a big comfy mattress, stuffed with piles and piles of carbon-credit cash.
http://deceiver.com/2010/05/04/al-gore-spent-nearly-nine-million-carbon-credits-on-new-house/
Massive Oil spill solution already exists
by Mark Warren
Wednesday May 26th, 2010 10:17 PM
There's a potential solution to the Gulf oil spill that neither BP, nor the federal government, nor anyone — save a couple intuitive engineers — seems willing to try. As The Politics Blog reported on Tuesday in an interview with former Shell Oil president John Hofmeister, the untapped solution involves using empty supertankers to suck the spill off the surface, treat and discharge the contaminated water, and either salvage or destroy the slick.
Hofmeister had been briefed on the strategy by a Houston-based environmental disaster expert named Nick Pozzi, who has used the same solution on several large spills during almost two decades of experience in the Middle East — who says that it could be deployed easily and should be, immediately, to protect the Gulf Coast. That it hasn't even been considered yet is, Pozzi thinks, owing to cost considerations, or because there's no clear chain of authority by which to get valuable ideas in the right hands. But with BP's latest four-pronged plan remaining unproven, and estimates of company liability already reaching the tens of billions of dollars (and counting), supertankers start to look like a bargain.
UPDATE (May 26): The Pragmatic Oil Spill Fix That BP's Still Waiting On
UPDATE (May 24): Sources Say BP Looking Beyond 'Top Kill' with Supertanker Fix
UPDATE (May 21): Why the Supertanker Fix Works at Depth... but the Government Won't Listen
The suck-and-salvage technique was developed in desperation across the Arabian Gulf following a spill of mammoth proportions — 700 million gallons — that has until now gone unreported, as Saudi Arabia is a closed society, and its oil company, Saudi Aramco, remains owned by the House of Saud. But in 1993 and into '94, with four leaking tankers and two gushing wells, the royal family had an environmental disaster nearly sixty-five times the size of Exxon Valdez on its hands, and it desperately needed a solution.
Pozzi, an American engineer then in charge of Saudi Aramco's east-west pipeline in the technical support and maintenance services division, was part of a team given cart blanche to control the blowout. Pozzi had dealt with numerous spills over the years without using chemicals, and had tried dumping flour into the oil, then scooping the resulting tar balls from the surface. "You ever cooked with flour? Absorbent, right?" Pozzi says. Next, he'd dumped straw into the spills; also highly absorbent, but then you've got a lot of straw to clean up. This spill was going to require a much larger, more sustained solution. And fast.
That's when Pozzi and his team came up with the idea of having empty ships park near the Saudi spill and pull the oil off the water. This part of the operation went on for six months, with the mop-up operations lasting for several years more. Pozzi says that 85 percent of the spilled oil was recovered, and it is precisely this strategy that he wants to see deployed in the Gulf of Mexico.
Yesterday, I spoke to Pozzi and his business partner, longtime Houston lawyer Jon King, about their proposed solution, and the difficulties they've encountered trying to assist in the disaster, with both BP and the government. While BP is attempting its very difficult maneuvers to contain the gusher at the source, they say, nothing is being done to adequately address the slick itself. Dispersant is being used by the ton, some of the oil is being burned, and there have been other efforts, which taken together, Pozzi likens to "a flea on an elephant's ass." The two men have been trying to rally support since just after the rig blew up, without much success. This has been typical of their experience:
JON KING: Well, we went down to the BP headquarters in Houma, Louisiana, and we didn't have an appointment so they wouldn't let us in. Then I called the president of BP and I talked to his secretary and she put me in touch with somebody, but the somebody she put me in touch with didn't know who we should talk to. Nick contacted a gentleman that he used to work with at BP, and he threatened to sue Nick for not going through channels. And I said, "Great. I'd love BP to sue us for trying to help them. That would be wonderful."
NICK POZZI: Keep in mind that what supertankers typically do is they sit in the middle of the ocean waiting for all the traders to come up with the right price. When they feel that the price is right, the tankers that are full, they take off, and they can be anywhere in the world in a few days. Right now there are probably 25 supertankers, waiting for orders, full of oil. So all they got to do is come to Texas, in the Gulf, unload the oil, and then turn around and suck up all this other stuff and pump it onto shore into on-shore storage. It's not rocket science. It's so simple. It's a Robinson Crusoe fix, but it works.
This past Monday, Pozzi and King spoke with Captain Ed Stanton, who is commanding the United States Coast Guard for much of the affected coastline. Stanton requested a quick proposal in writing, and said he would "take it up the chain of command." Below is the proposal, to which Pozzi and King are still awaiting a response.
From: Jon King
Sent: Monday, May 10, 2010 2:05 PM
To: Captain Ed Stanton
Cc: Nick Pozzi
Subject: Procedures Developed thru Lessons Learned
Re: Salt Water Clean-Up
Importance: High
Dear Captain Stanton,
Per your request this morning, this is to confirm our conversation with yourself, Mr. Nick Pozzi, and I.
My colleague, Nick Pozzi, has worked for over 40 years in the energy industry the majority with Saudi Aramco in the Middle East. During that time, Nick's team was part of the first responders that successfully cleaned similar sized spills of sweet and sour crude with the best technology available from the late 1980's thru the 1990's when he retired.
The primary equipment that was used to remove the crude from the Arabian Gulf was Super Tankers. The Super Tankers were used to store everything, run thru on-shore three-phase separators and sent to on-shore tank farms for additional clean up using centrifuges. The more the oil spreads the more tankers will be needed. Nick would be willing to provide a conceptual non-technical drawing to visualize this process.
This process not only cleaned up the ocean but it saved the local environment, minimized shoreline damage, and recovered approximately 85% of the crude oil. (Nick may be required to get permission from Saudi Aramco thru the Houston, Texas office in Sugar Land to provide you with any further details as to what information he is allowed to disclose to you regarding the various projects that he worked on.)
Nick does not know what the appropriate channels are to effectuate this process but feels, if asked, the Saudi Government may be willing to assist as he believes, that with the right calls, tankers could be on the scene in 2 days.
Please feel free to call Nick or I, if you need any additional information or have any questions.
Sincerely,
Jon King
Nick Pozzi
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2010/05/26/18648971.php
3And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
--Rev 16
:cloud9: You know, I wondered myself why they couldn't figure out a way to do that, but I decided it was so "simple" it must mean I didn't understand the problem correctly. :laughing7:
Beyond Top Kill: Are BP and the Government Ignoring the Oil Underneath?
May 27, 2010 at 5:04PM by Mark Warren
With all the proper attention being paid to the top kill effort to cap the blown-out well in the Gulf of Mexico, and the dedication of BP's operational assets that that has required, a very large and looming matter is being given less attention than it deserves, and that is: the oil already in the water, in large concentrations (or "plumes") and migrating, either toward coastline or to the ocean floor.
Last Tuesday, I asked Coast Guard Commander Mary Landry whether any efforts to recover the oil deeper in the water were being contemplated or devised, and the answer was no.
But late last week, it came to our attention that for the first time, BP was giving serious attention to a possible solution to this growing problem which involved the use of empty supertankers to essentially vacuum the oil from the water using the enormous pumping capacity of these vessels. Former Shell Oil President John Hofmeister has come out publicly behind this approach, and the Politics Blog has been reporting on it since early May — here, here, here, and here. (At a news conference this afternoon, President Obama glanced over a multi-part question involving the supertanker approach from ABC's Jake Tapper.)
We have spoken to other seasoned energy professionals, as well — including legendary Houston oilman Matthew Simmons — who also urge the deployment of this strategy to prevent the massive amount of oil already in the water from either washing ashore or contaminating the bottom of the Gulf.
Today, along with the promising news about the top kill, comes more sobering news of a newly-detected giant plume — 22 miles long, six miles wide — stretching toward Mobile Bay, Alabama. Just off the bay, in the town of Coden, a community organizer named Zack Carter contacted us immediately after our first supertanker report to find out how the South Bay Communities Alliance could help mobilize support and protect the Alabama coast. We spoke to Mr. Carter this afternoon, and with this latest news he has intensified his supertanker efforts, including enlisting Alabama Secretary of Agriculture Ron Sparks — a candidate for governor who has now organized a committee of Alabama legislators to prepare for the disaster.
Last night, however, we again posed the question about solutions at depth to Commander Landry and to Doug Suttles, the COO of BP. While another press conference was forthcoming this evening, as of this posting we're still awaiting response to this note we sent to the Coast Guard's press officer....
Dear Lieutenant Commander Hoeft,
Thank you for the conference call notification earlier this evening.
I actually have a question to direct to either Adm. Landry or Mr. Suttles, if you wouldn't mind facilitating. It is similar to the question I asked at last Tuesday's conference. It is this:
I wanted to ask about efforts to recover the oil already in the water, not skimming operations, but at depth. Mr. Suttles made reference this evening to the burning and skimming operations having reduced the surface oil, but no mention was made of any efforts to mitigate or recover the significant concentrations of oil that are deep in the water and migrating.
John Hofmeister, the former president of Shell, has for two weeks been public in advocating the use of supertankers to use their powerful pumps to suck up the oil and centrifuge-separate oil from seawater. Given that supertankers hold 85 million gallons, this seems like a sound idea.
We reported on Monday that over the weekend BP's technical staff was for the first time giving this idea serious consideration. Is this true? And what might the timetable be for such an operation?
And if this approach isn't being considered, why not?
Thank you very kindly, Lt. Comm. Hoeft. I do appreciate your help and time very much.
All best,
Mark
Mark Warren
Executive Editor
Esquire Magazine
Read more: http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/beyond-top-kill-procedure-052710#ixzz0pDQ2rzcT
Louisiana congressman cries discussing oil spill in Congressional hearing
"These are America's wetlands."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jtr7xMiAsU
I'm deeply suprised that the glorious Halliburton of the blameless Dick Cheney is involved too. And possibly even the cause....
http://industry.bnet.com/energy/10004219/gulf-oil-spill-whos-to-blame-bp-halliburton-and-the-feds-are-all-implicated/
BP, the oil giant operating the drilling rig that blew up and created a massive oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, has officially taken responsibility for the accident. But it may actually be able to spread the blame.
According to federal law, BP is automatically required to pay for much of the damage, and its name is obviously attached to the accident. Denying responsibility would be foolish; accepting it is good PR. But there are levels of responsibility, and BP works closely with other companies who might also deserve some of the opprobrium.
Last week, my colleague Kirsten Korosec noted that BP CEO Tony Hayward was already pointing fingers at Transocean, the owner of the drilling rig (BP was merely leasing it). Besides BP and Transocean, there are numerous companies involved, as well as the regulators who were supposed to keep the operation safe.
The tangle will take a long time to sort out, but here are three emerging reports that give a deeper view into who may be culpable:
BP
CEO Hayward thinks that the damage to BP, and the wider oil industry, may be manageable if the oil spill is soon contained. That's half the story, anyway; the other half is the notion that the Horizon's explosion was a cruel twist of fate, the kind of industrial accident that occasionally occurs regardless of all safeguards.
If it's discovered that BP didn't do everything it could to prevent the accident, its guilt in the public eye will soar to new levels. Now a whistleblower report by a former contractor has emerged that apparently says BP was in fact cutting corners, dangerously so. The contractor first suspected problems when hired to work on the BP Atlantis oil platform, according to Truthout:
It was then that the whistleblower, who was hired to oversee the company's databases that housed documents related to its Atlantis project, discovered that the drilling platform had been operating without a majority of the engineer-approved documents it needed to run safely, leaving the platform vulnerable to a catastrophic disaster that would far surpass the massive oil spill that began last week ...
Indeed, according to an August 15, 2008, email sent to BP officials by Barry Duff, a member of BP's Deepwater Gulf of Mexico Atlantis Subsea Team, the Piping and Instrument Diagrams (P&IDs) for the Atlantis subsea components "are not complete" and "there are hundreds if not thousands of subsea documents that have never been finalized, yet the facilities have been" up and running ...
The risk in turning over drawings that are not complete are: 1) The Operator will assume the drawings are accurate and up to date," the email said. "This could lead to catastrophic Operator errors due to their assuming the drawing is correct," said Duff's email to BP officials Bill Naseman and William Broman.
There's more to the story, which you can read at Truthout. If the allegations are in fact correct, BP could be in for a world of hurt; in Congress, the Committee on Energy and Commerce has already begun digging for evidence of wrongdoing at the company, and other politicians are calling its response inadequate.
Halliburton
It's hard to have a worse public image than Halliburton, the multinational engineering firm whose image took a beating during the first part of the Iraq War. But the company may well get slugged again over the Gulf accident, too. The latest accusation: The cement slurry Halliburton was pumping into the drill hole prior to the Horizon's explosion may have in fact been at fault.
The Los Angeles Times describes what Halliburton was doing at the site:
After an exploration well is drilled, cement slurry is pumped through a steel pipe or casing and out through a check valve at the bottom of the casing. It then travels up the outside of the pipe, sheathing the part of the pipe surrounded by the oil and gas zone. When the cement hardens, it is supposed to prevent oil or gas from leaking into adjacent zones along the pipe.
As the cement sets, the check valve at the end of the casing prevents any material from flowing back up the pipe. The zone is thus isolated until the company is ready to start production.
The process is tricky. A 2007 study by the U.S. Minerals Management Service found that cementing was the single most-important factor in 18 of 39 well blowouts in the Gulf of Mexico over a 14-year period.
The bad news for Halliburton is that a number of experts think the accident probably originated in the pipe that the cement was being pumped into. The good news for the company is that investigators may find it difficult to tell whether the cement did its job or not, especially if BP is successful in dropping massive concrete domes on top of the leaks to stop them.
The feds
Federal oversight of oil drilling rigs and platforms in the Gulf is intense; the Interior Department's Mineral Management Service inspectors often travel between drilling sites, proactively checking up on documentation and procedures. However, the Wall Street Journal has dug into a story that suggests that Fed oversight failed at a much earlier point.
Undersea drilling is immensely complicated, so the MMS is also involved in permitting the various equipment used. From the WSJ:
Federal regulators learned in a 2004 study that a vital piece of oil-drilling safety equipment may not function in deep-water seas but did nothing to bolster industry requirements ... The equipment, called shear rams, is supposed to seal off out-of-control oil and gas wells by pinching the pipe closed and cutting it.
In 2004, a study commissioned by the MMS raised significant questions about the ability of rams to cut through the stronger pipes used in deep-water drilling. Those thicker pipes—as well as the shear rams—must withstand the enormous pressures found at 5,000 feet below sea level ...
Only three of 14 newly build rigs had blowout preventers that were able to squeeze off and cut the pipe at the water pressure likely to be experienced at the equipment's maximum water depth, the study noted.
Whether the shear rams could crimp the pipe may turn out to be a moot point, if they system that was supposed to relay the command to the rams failed. On the other hand, if the rams functioned but didn't fulfill their job, the Fed may suddenly find itself the target of public anger, along with Transocean, which bought the rams, and Cameron International, the manufacturer.
The WSJ story, in fact, says that the Fed study singled out Cameron for doing a bad job calculating the amount of force their shear rams needed to apply. But for now, all of these allegations are still at the stage of finger-pointing, and more potential culprits may emerge over the coming weeks.
How money is created aka credit crisis.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oosq3TPgHH0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oosq3TPgHH0)
Nearly 50 Supertankers Are Waiting for BP (on the Cheap)
June 4, 2010 at 5:57PM by Mark Warren
Forget the president's latest Friday-afternoon jaunt to Louisiana. Here's the news that really got buried headed into the weekend: Former Shell Oil President John Hofmeister had his first substantive and detailed talk yesterday with Coast Guard officials in Louisiana regarding the viability and importance of deploying supertankers to the Gulf in an effort to recover the oil in the water before it ruins any more coastline.
Hofmeister has been extraordinarily tenacious in pursuit of this idea, and hopefully this breakthrough signifies serious movement toward action.
After all, it is not as if BP would have trouble finding supertankers to clean up the Gulf.
In all the world, there are 538 VLCC's, or Very Large Crude Carriers. The English, especially those in the shipping trade, sneer at the term "supertanker" that we Americans have popularized for these massive vessels. "It's a bad tag," a wise young tanker broker in London told me this morning. They prefer instead to describe the ship's line and its DWT, or dead weight tonnage, because those things convey more useful information. Pardon me, but I prefer the term supertanker, because in the Gulf of Mexico we've got a super problem. Anyway, VLCC is a little dry.
In any case, as of this morning, of these 538 supertankers dotting the oceans of the world, 47 were basically inert, being used for something the young English broker called "floating storage." That is, they were full of crude oil, going nowhere. And half of these are full of Iranian heavy crude, which for various reasons no one seems to want. The point of this being that we've got a glut of crude on the market at the moment, and it is cheaper to store the oil on 47 of these tankers than sell it. This phenomenon is what is known in the petroleum business as a "contango," where the delivery price exceeds the market price that you can get for the oil.
Which is all to say that were BP to get supertankers into the Gulf of Mexico to pursue a suck-and-salvage strategy (which The Politics Blog has written about extensively) to get the oil out of the water before the worst of it comes ashore — or before it contaminates the sea floor — it is not as if the company would have a difficult time finding tankers. In fact, it's not as if it would even have to divert tankers from its own fleet, and remove them from their regular runs picking up and delivering oil.
That's where tanker brokers come in. The young English broker at EA Gibson shipbroking that I spoke with, as well as the very helpful tanker broker I spoke with from Simpson Spence & Young on Long Island, broke things down. It is a special knowledge they have, and many calculations go into determining what the services of one of these vessels is worth, but chartering a tanker isn't rocket science. And yes, diverting a tanker from commerce to cleanup will cost BP a premium, but that cost is nothing compared to the ruination of vital coastline and of whole economies. I mean, look at the size of this thing.
Basically, these guys told us that per day, these tankers earn their owners roughly $45,000. If you were to approach one of these brokers looking to charter, on behalf of their owners they would ask a premium, maybe $1,000,000 per day, according to the broker from SSY. Negotiations would bring that down to something more acceptable to both parties, this broker said, and he also indicated that as a premium it wouldn't be unusual for the ship's owner to ask for and get ten times what it normally earns on its daily runs.
So for argument's (and BP's) sake, let's say that when BP charters the necessary tankers (and they will have to, eventually), the tanker broker makes them a deal for $450,000 a day. And let's say that BP orders up six tankers, and for a problem the size of the one they've created, these supertankers and their pumping and storage capacity are needed for six months.
At that rate, six supertankers for six months comes to $494,100,000. Round up and call it a half-billion dollars. On the ghost of Lord Browne, we are here to say that that will be the best half-billion BP ever spent.
Obviously, these are the roughest of calculations, as today's rate won't necessarily be tomorrow's rate, but you get the idea. And again, a drop in the bucket compared to the bankrupting settlements they'll otherwise have to pay for destroying whole coastlines, economies, and ways of life.
And, gentlemen, that just accounts for supertankers. There are thousands and thousands of smaller-capacity tankers that are certainly more plentiful and might even save BP a buck. Or if they get more ambitious about cleaning up the Gulf, there are even a handful of ULCC's, or Ultra-Large Crude Carriers, on earth. At 400,000 metric tons, they're even bigger than the supertankers.
But what becomes clearer by the day is that this solution, which would be difficult under the best of circumstances, gets harder as the oil in the water migrates and changes in character (thanks to environmental conditions and a million gallons of dispersant).
There is no time for further study or more data. Enough smart people think this idea is feasible and is not technically that challenging to merit trying it immediately.
The other efforts to mitigate the oil — burning, skimming, dispersing — have failed or are failing. Unless someone comes forward with a better idea, now, the only alternative to the tanker solution is to watch the worst of the oil come ashore, and say goodbye to so much.
Read more: http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/bp-oil-spill-cleanup-costs-060410?src=rss#ixzz0q54fgDnQ
I assume the suck-and-salvage strategy works fine for oil that's floating on the surface.
But what about the huge clouds of oil that deep below the surface because of the dispersant use?
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 06, 2010, 05:22:47 PM
I assume the suck-and-salvage strategy works fine for oil that's floating on the surface.
But what about the huge clouds of oil that deep below the surface because of the dispersant use?
One solution: stop using the toxic dispersant to 'sink the body.' Out of sight, out of mind only works for 9 month old babies.
The Pragmatic Oil Spill Fix That BP's Still Waiting OnMay 25, 2010 at 9:34PM by Mark Warren
So on MSNBC tonight, first on Hardball, Chris Matthews excoriated the White House's irresolute response to the Gulf catastrophe, quoting John Kennedy from the American University speech: "Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man." Instead, Matthews said the White House was treating the spill as if it were "a BP problem, to be solved by BP." He then went on to say that we as a nation must immediately find the resolve to end the calamity on the Gulf Coast, and he called for getting tankers into the Gulf and "sucking up that oil."
Just after Matthews, on tonight's Countdown with Keith Olbermann, former Shell Oil President John Hofmeister (whose important new book, Why We Hate the Oil Companies, came out just today), was asked by Olbermann: "So whatever happened to the idea that supposedly had worked in the Gulf of Arabia, with supertankers?"
To which Hofmeister answered:
SEE VIDEO AT LINK
Ladies and gentlemen, Hofmeister is one of the most respected and erudite energy executives in this or any other country. He is putting himself out, not without risk, to lend his clout to ameliorating what could be an environmental and economic (not to even mention human and cultural) disaster without precedent. And yet, "I'm waiting."
The Politics Blog has been reporting on the supertanker strategy for the past two weeks — here, here, here, and here. We have had conversations with people who have had significant careers in energy who have speculated that
it need not be a strategy that is confined to surface collection, but by using powerful pumps and "smart pipe" could be utilized at various depths to retrieve the spreading oil. Should someone not test this hypothesis immediately? This is not a solution that ought to wait for further data, or study. Can anyone argue that it would be less effective than the current skimming and burning operations that have not prevented the ruination of delicate and vital Lousiana marshland? And that is just the beginning, and does not even contemplate the long-term deleterious effects that the oil and the chemical dispersants will have on life in a body of water that is so important to life and commerce along one of the most populous coastlines anywhere. And as goes the Gulf Coast, so goes America.
If anyone — anyone — has an effective counterargument to any of this, we want to hear it. Contact us. Otherwise, tick tock, BP. Tick tock.
We are waiting.
Read more:
http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/john-hofmeister-saudi-arabia-oil-spill-052510
The problem seems far worse. I found an article in Dutch that I haven't been able to verify. (besides by a vague picture)
It seems the oil doen't only flows out of the drill hole but also the seafloor.
The theory is that the seafloor is porous and that the oil not only move upwards but also sideways.
That means 2 things. Multiple oil leaks. The 'easy' way stop a oil spill is simple place a huge concrete block on the spill.
But in this case that would simply means the oil flow would be diverted to other spots. In theory a 'limitless' number of spots.
The only way out is to drill a new pipe near the current one. Use the new pipe to lower the pressure and then start plugging the current hole.
:cloud9: I think we're idiots for drilling on the ocean floor in the first place. Decades ago, they should have demanded that a portion of the oil profits go into research for clean non-fossil fuel energy sources, to be implemented by _______date. But no, since we let big oil run and ruin the world, here we are........My :2c:
Many will agree with that statement.
Until....they hear crude will rise...
If it reaches the gulf stream it will go around the planet.
".... one third of the sea died ...."
:sigh: It just gets worse and worse......brief interview about the possibility that essentially the ocean floor may have opened up and is leaking oil.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_uMg84BBzE
That at least verifies what I wrote 2 articles back.
Internet is fantastic for fast news. But also horror for everyone making up his/her own version of the news.
What's true of the rumor that the Navy is gonna evacuate the whole coastal area for a supposingly long scheduled drill?
But the real reason is that they want to nuke the hole. At least that's the story.
Quote from: Cardinal on June 12, 2010, 08:52:47 AM
:sigh: It just gets worse and worse......brief interview about the possibility that essentially the ocean floor may have opened up and is leaking oil.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_uMg84BBzE
It's looking like we are increasingly reliant on the relief wells to fix this, which are going to take from august to october [current estimates] to drill.
If that's the case, then I think we really have to get serious about sucking the oil out of the water itself until the leak can be fixed--can we all shout
SUPERTANKERS loud enough for our reps to hear in Congress?
Fox reported last night that a thing called the Jones act was holding up the use of foreign ships in the gulf and that it could be waived by the President for this purpose as was done during Katrina.
The other thing we really need to do is pray--could one of you prayer warriors write a prayer for this? We really need help on this one.
Also heard, I think in that same Fox report you mention Molly, that foreign aid/help has been turned away. They said it somehow violates some workers' union's wishes...sounds like some dandy decisions are being made.
Quote from: jabcat on June 12, 2010, 11:19:29 AM
Also heard, I think in that same Fox report you mention Molly, that foreign aid/help has been turned away. They said it somehow violates some workers' union's wishes...sounds like some dandy decisions are being made.
Yes, that's the Jones act, and yes, that's the unions who would be objecting if anyone is.
Quote from: jabcat on June 12, 2010, 11:19:29 AM
Also heard, I think in that same Fox report you mention Molly, that foreign aid/help has been turned away. They said it somehow violates some workers' union's wishes...sounds like some dandy decisions are being made.
I've read that they hired Russian experts...
But that's of course just a few people with idea's not ships.
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 12, 2010, 11:38:54 AM
Quote from: jabcat on June 12, 2010, 11:19:29 AM
Also heard, I think in that same Fox report you mention Molly, that foreign aid/help has been turned away. They said it somehow violates some workers' union's wishes...sounds like some dandy decisions are being made.
I've read that they hired Russian experts...
But that's of course just a few people with idea's not ships.
Apparently they've hired the Russians because they are the only ones who have ever drilled this deep, according to Lindsey Williams this well is 25 to 30 thousand feet deep, but the Russians have done it on land, not 5000 feet under the water. According to Williams the pressure in this well is 20 to 70 thousand psi [Prudhoe Bay wells are typically 1000 psi].
But that's the internet. If only mainstream media would come out of their coma. Cnn is getting upset, though, because no one will talk to them on the beach or from the company. And, they, too, are confused about where is the government? [ans: writing bills to take advantage of every crisis ha!].
The stuff on the internet is enough to stop your heart. The internet says that bp has a complete media blackout and threatening people with arrest. The internet says bp is not letting people clean this oil up. If that's true, what is going on?
I've read 600 bar - 8700 psi
QuoteThe stuff on the internet is enough to stop your heart. The internet says that bp has a complete media blackout and threatening people with arrest. The internet says bp is not letting people clean this oil up. If that's true, what is going on
BP has no happy news that's for sure. They were silent from the start and only reported "hopeful" things like we are sucking out xxxx barrels oil daily. Or we pay fishermen to help cleaning so they can earn their living too. (but all the cleaning contracts have gone to lawyers and doctors who get up to $1500 for unverified help...)
Quotebut the Russians have done it on land, not 5000 feet under the water.
And as anyone who hit a waterpipe when drilling a hole in the wall knows.... drilling is easier than plugging the hole :winkgrin:
QuoteThey were silent from the start ...
And, that helps them...how? It's not as if they are going to hide a trillion barrels of oil. Now this silence, the lies, the ban on talking to reporters, the areas barred from reporters, the flyover ban on airplanes, the complete lack of clean up, the ban on drilling...
If I were to put on my most paranoid thinking cap, what would I conclude?
[Or you can wait and read it in my book, How to turn a superpower into a third world country in two years]. God help us.
QuoteAnd, that helps them...how? It's not as if they are going to hide a trillion barrels of oil.
It won't help them anymore. But in the beginning they might have hoped to plug the hole in a short time and be able to claim half a trillion instead of a trillion.
Quotethe flyover ban on airplanes
They don't have that power. So .gov is involved too.
Quotethe ban on drilling...
I think there is none. Do you really think after all those wars for oil .gov gives up the opportunity to get the black gold?
QuoteIf I were to put on my most paranoid thinking cap, what would I conclude?
I think you look pretty with a cap on :laughing7:
Quote[Or you can wait and read it in my book, How to turn a superpower into a third world country in two years]. God help us.
What's the ISBN of your book? :winkgrin:
Do you think it's sabotage?
I think the whole planet will feel the effects if something very good isn't done very soon. Say bye bye to all marine life.
"Did you now that 1 litre of oil can pollute 1 million litres of water?"
"One drop of oil can render up to 25 litres of water unfit for drinking."
300+ photo's http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/30/louisiana-oil-spill-2010_n_558287.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRl6-o8CpXA&feature=player_embedded
Summary: A few hours before Obama visits a place, cleaning people are flew in from all over the place. Obama and the camera see busy people. Obama says good job and leaves. A few minutes later the cleaners leave too....
:cloud9: Did you see the news about the oyster shucking company, that closed it's doors yesterday after 138 years of business? Dead oyster beds, no doubt.... :thumbdown:
That kind of life dies first because they live on filtering water.
The REAL REASON Behind the BP Oil Spill in the Gulf of Mexico - 2010 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77pBcf0o444&feature=related)
Click the expand button just below the video.
Is this true???
QuoteUnder the Oil Pollution Act of 1990 federal courts cannot impose damages in excess of $75 million on any oil firm responsible for a spill. O'Neill cautions they'll have to wait a long time before checks are actually cut.
"At some point in time, the administration and the states will resolve all their dealings and it will leave fisherman and the tourist industry to resolve their differences in the courts," he said. "It could be another 20 years till then.
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 12, 2010, 06:58:49 PM
The REAL REASON Behind the BP Oil Spill in the Gulf of Mexico - 2010 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77pBcf0o444&feature=related)
Click the expand button just below the video.
But really, let's say you're the CEO of a multi billion dollar company. Are you just going to blow off a 500K safety device because you can? Isn't that kind of penny wise and pound foolish? If it were me, I would put every safety device in place known to man. We're talking 5000 feet below water just to get to the wellhead. For what this is going to cost them, 500K looks like chump change.
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 12, 2010, 07:20:47 PM
Is this true???
Under the Oil Pollution Act of 1990 federal courts cannot impose damages in excess of $75 million on any oil firm responsible for a spill. O'Neill cautions they'll have to wait a long time before checks are actually cut.
"At some point in time, the administration and the states will resolve all their dealings and it will leave fisherman and the tourist industry to resolve their differences in the courts," he said. "It could be another 20 years till then.
Yes, it's true. Congress is talking about changing the law lol.
I would agree with you Molly. I guess that's why we are not billionairs :icon_king:
Now it cost them 500k/day just for the PR budget...
Lots of info/animations on the techinaclities of the valves and wellheads.
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=industrial3d&annotation_id=annotation_713509&feature=iv#p/u/5/V5bLdOP4VZ8
:cloud9: That would be rational, but how rational are people that have that kind of wealth, without the wisdom of God? They destroy themselves with it. Greed kills the soul.
Quote from: Molly on June 12, 2010, 08:28:45 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 12, 2010, 07:20:47 PM
Is this true???
Under the Oil Pollution Act of 1990 federal courts cannot impose damages in excess of $75 million on any oil firm responsible for a spill. O'Neill cautions they'll have to wait a long time before checks are actually cut.
"At some point in time, the administration and the states will resolve all their dealings and it will leave fisherman and the tourist industry to resolve their differences in the courts," he said. "It could be another 20 years till then.
Yes, it's true. Congress is talking about changing the law lol.
It sounds like the chance has alreday been made...?
Half of congres was corrupt, asleep or both I guess.
General motors invented a car that runs on water.
Gulf water :winkgrin:
Is that a $75 million fine on top of other costs?
Or count BP just say: Here you got your $75 million. Now it's up to you to clean up things.
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 12, 2010, 08:30:21 PM
I would agree with you Molly. I guess that's why we are not billionairs :icon_king:
Now it cost them 500k/day just for the PR budget...
Lots of info/animations on the techinaclities of the valves and wellheads.
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=industrial3d&annotation_id=annotation_713509&feature=iv#p/u/5/V5bLdOP4VZ8
"There are 6 redundant seperate emergency systems that can close [the well]... They all failed... It doesn't make any sense"
There are two things at work here. First, there is the original blowout and why it happened. "There are 6 redundant seperate emergency systems that can close [the well]... They all failed... It doesn't make any sense" My guess is they encountered a psi that they had never encountered before and were not expecting. I say that because if none of the 6 redundant systems worked, it means they couldn't work--that is, they couldn't handle the pressure.
But, the second thing that nobody is talking about is what sunk the rig. You notice from those pictures that the rig sits right above the drilling pipe. I heard that the coast guard was ordered by the epa to put out the fire because it was polluting the air. So the coast guard pounded the rig with sea water for two days, flooding all it's compartments until it became unstable and sank, snapping the pipe off at the well head [or compromising the pipeline itself which he seems to indicate from his pictures]. Don't know if it's true but it makes a lot of sense to me. And, if it is true, it needs to be exposed. Because it means they should have let it burn until they could close the well. Much better than what is happening now. They stopped the fire by sinking the rig [mod edit].
Quote from: wwOr count BP just say: Here you got your $75 million. Now it's up to you to clean up things.
Yes, that's my understanding, the law limits their liability to 75 million.
I think that's why we see all the sabre rattling lawyers visiting the gulf with threats of criminal charges. Not sure they would have much of a case, really...
Throw out the lawyers and bring in the supertankers.
Quote from: Molly on June 12, 2010, 08:55:09 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 12, 2010, 08:30:21 PM
I would agree with you Molly. I guess that's why we are not billionairs :icon_king:
Now it cost them 500k/day just for the PR budget...
Lots of info/animations on the techinaclities of the valves and wellheads.
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=industrial3d&annotation_id=annotation_713509&feature=iv#p/u/5/V5bLdOP4VZ8
"There are 6 redundant seperate emergency systems that can close [the well]... They all failed... It doesn't make any sense"
Firstly I'm not sure all those systems are already in place at this early stage.
Secondly there is/was some sort of ultimate safety device that permantly caps the well. It's manually controled. Once activated the well is unusable for every costly. So that option is used as the very ulitimate option. To late in this case because when the rig fell over the pipes jammed/damaged the devise.
That's what I have understood from various sources.
Plus I think there is more going on than just those safety devises. They are just attached to the pipe that's in the sea bottom. But what if that pipe it self is damaged. If the plumbing (pipes) in your house (sea floor) is broken closing your tap (safety devise) has no effect.
QuoteFirstly I'm not sure all those systems are already in place at this early stage.
Dunno. That's what he said. It would make sense they were. We know something failed because the well blew.
QuoteTo late in this case because when the rig fell over the pipes jammed/damaged the devise.
The rig falling over is the source of the whole leak from the well head. What made the rig fall over? The coast guard piling two days of sea water on it, in my book.
Don't forget, these rigs hold up under hurricanes.
QuoteBut what if that pipe it self is damaged. If the plumbing (pipes) in your house (sea floor) is broken closing your tap (safety devise) has no effect.
well, then you have a third problem. And what would cause that? They are thinking maybe they caused the underground fracturing themselves when they were pumping all that mud in over labor day. But maybe the pressure of the well itself caused it and it happened when the well blew. They are not yet officially admitting there are any underground fractures. If there are, it's not good.
Quote from: Molly on June 13, 2010, 12:28:43 AM
The rig falling over is the source of the whole leak from the well head. What made the rig fall over? The coast guard piling two days of sea water on it, in my book.
BP will hire you as a lawyer that's for sure. Assuming the coast guard made the rig fall over does that make them responsible for teh oil spil? Shouldn't BP have started the permant sealing/capping device way before that.
QuoteDon't forget, these rigs hold up under hurricanes.
It depends a bit on what kind of rig it was.
Because of the depth I assume a floating rig. Perhaps a cable snapped because of the explosion.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Types_of_offshore_oil_and_gas_structures.jpg)More info (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_platform)
QuoteQuoteBut what if that pipe it self is damaged. If the plumbing (pipes) in your house (sea floor) is broken closing your tap (safety devise) has no effect.
well, then you have a third problem. And what would cause that? They are thinking maybe they caused the underground fracturing themselves when they were pumping all that mud in over labor day. But maybe the pressure of the well itself caused it and it happened when the well blew. They are not yet officially admitting there are any underground fractures. If there are, it's not good.
There seems to be a large spil 5 miles from the rig. If true, that proves the oil traveled 5 miles in a semi-horizonal way through the sea floor. Capping the well will only force more oil to that place. I don't know the specifics about the sea floor but I guess it's lots of mud. So to contain 600 bar the pipe must have snapped at great depth. Just speculating... maybe the pipe didn't snap at all under the sea floor.
If the drilling hole is wider than the actual pipe oil will escape from though the space on the sides. I think that's what cementing (click here) (http://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2010/05/halliburton-could-be-at-fault-for-oil-spill/56131/) is all about. Cementing done by Halliburton, who is magicly never mentioned in the news...
So right now the only fix seem to be to plug the hole at a huge depth. Way below the sea floor. But that's impossible with this huge pressure. So a new hole needs to be drilled to take of the pressure. That will take months.
I'm no PR drone of BP but I think they are doing the best they can now. Just because the rather concentrate on selling the stuff.....
All we can hope for is that the next time security is in place. But I have little hopes if the so called fool proof devices that only cost 500k aren't installed.
My guess is that many rigs don't have it installed....
That was painfully true . . .
Did Fireboats Sink the Oil Rig?Some clues from a maritime disaster in February 1942.
By Bryce Hall Posted Thursday, May 6, 2010, at 6:57 PM ET
Here's what we know for sure about the disaster in the Gulf of Mexico: On April 20, the Deepwater Horizon oil rig exploded, killing 11 people onboard; 36 hours later, it sank into the ocean. Investigations are under way to determine the cause of the accident and how it might have been prevented. So far, these have focused on what caused the explosion in the first place (was it a bad cementing job by Halliburton?) and what caused a blowout preventer safety device to fail. But it may be just as important to figure out why the oil rig capsized and sank beneath the waves. This latter event may have turned a manageable disaster into a full-scale catastrophe.
In the first hours after the explosion, most of the spilled oil was burning off in the fire, and the initial damage estimates were small. But when the Deepwater Horizon turned over on its 400-foot pontoons, the mile-long pipe that connected it to the underwater wellhead collapsed like a mess of spaghetti. Now the oil is leaking from this jumbled steel on the ocean floor at two sites where the pipe buckled and broke. If the first rescue crews on the scene had somehow been able to prevent the rig from sinking, they might have disconnected the pipe safely and capped it near the surface.
So what happened? The fireboat crews tried to extinguish the flames as quickly as possible so they might board the oil rig to search for survivors and contain the spill. In the end, though, their efforts to battle the fire may have made the situation worse. By pouring hundreds of thousands of gallons of water and flame-retardant foam onto the rig, it's possible that the fireboats helped sink the Deepwater Horizon.
The oil rig appeared to be floating in the water with a slight list when the initial rescue crews showed up. According to one of the people coordinating the response, Capt. Farhat Imam, the rig did not seem in imminent danger of sinking. (At that point, there was just a "minimal sheen of oil" on the water, he says.) As the fire raged on, the list increased, and then the platform really began to tip over during the six hours before it finally capsized on April 22. Fireboats had continued to pour water and flame-retardant foam onto the rig the whole time.
At the moment, there's no way to know how much the rescue effort contributed to the sinking. It's possible that the blaze was hot enough to melt the steel superstructure of the oil rig [molly: unlikely--you need temperatures around 3000 degrees F to melt steel], which could have shifted enough weight to make it capsize regardless of the water and foam. But photos of the rig as it was going under show the largest structural members still intact, although the smoke and flames make it difficult to see clearly.
The USS LafayetteEventually we may be able to survey the wreckage of the oil rig with submersibles and determine exactly what caused it to sink. But the suggestion that fireboats might be responsible has at least one major historical precedent. When the SS Normandie made her maiden voyage in 1935, she was the largest passenger liner ever built—more than 150 feet longer and 20,000 tons heavier than the RMS Titanic. During World War II, the Normandie was renamed the USS Lafayette, and the U.S. government set about converting her into a troop transport ship in New York Harbor. In February 1942, a spark from a welder's torch started a fire that soon engulfed the entire vessel. Workers rushed to extinguish the blaze, pouring water onto the ship from the adjacent piers and from fireboats in the river.
Much of that water fell on the upper decks, filling compartments and making the ship top-heavy. When the liner began listing to port, the water flowed into compartments on that side, which moved the center of gravity farther away from the centerline of the hull—and the ship capsized into the icy Hudson. Its burned-out carcass blocked one of the largest piers in the harbor for the next 20 months, until it could be righted at last and towed to a scrap yard.
Rescue crews today understand the risk of capsizing a fiery ship. The National Fire Protection Association's guidelines for responding to marine vessel fires explain that "vessels suffer a loss of stability as water utilized in the fire fighting accumulates above the original center of gravity. ... If this vulnerability is not properly understood and controlled, the consequences can impact all fire-fighting efforts severely." As a vessel begins to list, the guidelines describe "devastating consequences" in which a "domino effect can quickly compound an already aggravated situation."
These safety considerations have become more important because fireboats now have increased pumping capacity. Most modern fireboats have the capacity to blast more than 10,000 gallons of water per minute. (New York City fireboats can pump up to 50,000 gallons per minute.) Since one gallon of seawater weighs about 8.5 pounds, 10,000 gallons of water weighs more than 42 tons. At that rate, just one fireboat can pump around 2,500 tons of water every hour.
Only a small proportion of that weight would have been brought to bear on the oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico—much of the liquid pumped at a maritime fire ends up boiling off or spilling into the sea. Still, experienced maritime firefighters concede that a significant amount is likely to have collected in the upper decks of the rig.
Transocean and BP, the companies that owned and leased the Deepwater Horizon, have declined to discuss what may have contributed to the sinking. In time, the investigation may determine that the sinking of the oil rig was inevitable after the April 20 explosion. But it would be shortsighted to discount the possibility that our initial response to the disaster contributed to its enormous scale. An oil slick of historic size is now threatening to devastate the marine environment from Louisiana to Florida. We all have a stake in understanding what happened to prevent anything like it from ever happening again.
http://www.slate.com/id/2253193
Quote from: Molly on June 13, 2010, 05:37:27 AM
Now the oil is leaking from this jumbled steel on the ocean floor at two sites where the pipe buckled and broke. If the first rescue crews on the scene had somehow been able to prevent the rig from sinking, they might have disconnected the pipe safely and capped it near the surface.
That still doesn't explain the other oil spill. Or... perhaps
because of the rig tipping over the pipe cracked way below the sea floor??
QuoteAt the moment, there's no way to know how much the rescue effort contributed to the sinking. It's possible that the blaze was hot enough to melt the steel superstructure of the oil rig [molly: unlikely--you need temperatures around 3000 degrees F to melt steel],
True.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire (halfway down the page)
I would say the fire was 1470F at hottest.
But.... way before steel melts it gets weaker. OTOH I don't believe the steel got that hot. Firstly the color of the flames indicate it was not hot. And the huge quantities of water from the fireboats sure kept the steel a bit cooled too.
QuoteMost modern fireboats have the capacity to blast more than 10,000 gallons of water per minute. (New York City fireboats can pump up to 50,000 gallons per minute.) Since one gallon of seawater weighs about 8.5 pounds, 10,000 gallons of water weighs more than 42 tons. At that rate, just one fireboat can pump around 2,500 tons of water every hour.
I just assume that as a fact.
But if that water just flows of the rig the weight calculations are of no use. A flat steel surface just gets wet not heavier.
QuoteTransocean and BP, the companies that owned and leased the Deepwater Horizon, have declined to discuss what may have contributed to the sinking.
Doesn't that prove they don't think it's because of the fireboats? It would be a perfect way to shift blame.
Quote from: Molly on June 12, 2010, 08:28:45 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 12, 2010, 07:20:47 PM
Is this true???
Under the Oil Pollution Act of 1990 federal courts cannot impose damages in excess of $75 million on any oil firm responsible for a spill.
Yes, it's true. Congress is talking about changing the law lol.
Boehner: Government--i.e. Taxpayers--Should Help Pay For Oil Spill (http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/06/boehner-government--ie-taxpayers--should-help-pay-for-oil-spill.php?ref=fpblg)
QuoteBoehner: Government--i.e. Taxpayers--Should Help Pay For Oil Spill
I agree with this. At any rate it's going to happen. Take that tarp or stimulus money and spend it on this. The expense already, from destroyed fishermen, tourism, beaches, ecosystem, etc, is incalculable. We have to help out our Gulf brothers.
I keep thinking this administration is just trying to figure out how to use this catastrophe to 1) stick it to BP and 2) pass their energy agenda. Driving BP into bankruptcy is not going to serve any purpose and just create more victims {British pensioners, employees, etc}. Better to cut a deal with BP that plays out over years for the benefit of the Gulf. And, his energy agenda can go pound sand. Give us the Tesla technology they have been hiding from us for 100 years instead of windmills.
QuoteThat still doesn't explain the other oil spill. Or... perhaps because of the rig tipping over the pipe cracked way below the sea floor??
My current understanding-- When the rig went down, it pulled the pipe down with it and cracked it [in two places?] above the sea floor. They tried to cap that spill first, without success, and then they cut the pipe off nearer the well head and now have capped that--but that seems to have increased the flow, and it looks like they are afraid to close the baffles on their new connector, because it is still flowing out around the connection at a high rate as we see on tv. Now they are collecting some of the oil from it at the surface with ships. [more than 17K barrels a day?] Did you see the robots cutting the pipe? Amazing.
Below the sea floor--that's another story. If the blowout happened because of a faulty cement job [Halliburton], and partly because of the huge pressure of this well, there's no telling what is going on below the sea floor. At least, they're not telling us yet.
QuoteBut if that water just flows of the rig the weight calculations are of no use. A flat steel surface just gets wet not heavier.
The rig has lots of compartments where men work, sleep, eat. To me, they filled the compartments with water causing the rig to list and fill the compartments more. Classic. It's what sank the Titanic.
Quote from: Molly on June 13, 2010, 12:48:58 PM
Give us the Tesla technology they have been hiding from us for 100 years instead of windmills.
I've found this old, VHS quality documentary that was aired on Australian TV. If you want it contact me by PM.
The Eye of the Storm- The Inventions of Nikola Tesla
QuoteQuoteThat still doesn't explain the other oil spill. Or... perhaps because of the rig tipping over the pipe cracked way below the sea floor??
My current understanding-- When the rig went down, it pulled the pipe down with it and cracked it [in two places?] above the sea floor.
Yes, the pipe was leaking in 2 or 3 places. That's clear. But that's above the sea floor (cracked pipe is on not below the sea floor)
The pipe isn't 5 mile long either. And the second oil spill comes out of the sea floor (like a well). Not out of a pipe.
QuoteBelow the sea floor--that's another story. If the blowout happened because of a faulty cement job [Halliburton], and partly because of the huge pressure of this well, there's no telling what is going on below the sea floor. At least, they're not telling us yet.
QuoteBut if that water just flows of the rig the weight calculations are of no use. A flat steel surface just gets wet not heavier.
QuoteThe rig has lots of compartments where men work, sleep, eat. To me, they filled the compartments with water causing the rig to list and fill the compartments more. Classic. It's what sank the Titanic.
Yeah I know about those area's. I just wonder if they hold any water. An open door and cracked windows and it gushes out again...????
Hurricane proof means it's a very sturdy construction. But
if the cabling snapped as a wrote a few messages above the rig wasn't hurricane proof anymore.
All in all I think a leaking pipe is quite easy to fix. Cap it with a concrete slab. Or dump concrete cube on it and then cement them shut.
It has been done before that way. But IF the pipe really cracked way below the sea floor like some experts fear it's a whole new ball game...
Nuclear Option on Gulf Oil Spill? No Way, U.S. Says (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/03/us/03nuke.html)
Nuke the oil spill: Could nuclear bomb be answer for huge leaks as at US Gulf coast?
(http://www.zideo.nl/index.php?playzideo=6b3461546f6c6478&zideo=6c4957546d773d3d)
Detonating Nuclear Bomb at BP Oil Spill Site... Might Produce a Bad Result (http://www.blacklistednews.com/news-8991-0-5-5--.html)
QuoteBefore they consider that option, they might want to watch this video of Dr. Gregory Ryskin, Professor of Chemical Engineering at Northwestern University. In the video, Dr. Ryskin explains how a prehistoric methane gas explosion could explain the Permian-Triassic Extinction Event, a mysterious period in Earth history where 95% of all species went extinct.
Given that the amount of methane gas that is leaking from the BP spill site is at least equal to the amount of oil, it would lead one to believe that there is a huge underground pocket of methane gas buried there. Now, if Dr. Ryskin's theory is correct, not only would detonating a nuclear bomb near that underground methane pocket end the oil spill, it might end all life on Earth as well.
Nuke the oil spill? (http://theweek.com/article/index/203645/nuke-the-oil-spill)
QuoteBut the worst case scenario, says Andrew Leonard at Salon, would be a "chain reaction" leading to a massive release of frozen natural gas in the seabed — potentially wiping out most of the life on planet Earth.
I'm wondering if it's really needed to cap that well.
Just place some huge hollow dome(s) over the spill(s). Pipe from the dome to the surface. Oil spill stopped and oil can be sold.
The only problem is that they can't adjust the output of the well. But that's of later concern...
BP Official Admits to Damage BENEATH THE SEA FLOOR (http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2010/06/evidence-points-to-destruction-beneath.html)
QuoteAs I noted Tuesday, there is growing evidence that BP's oil well - technically called the "well casing" or "well bore" - has suffered damage beneath the level of the sea floor.
The evidence is growing stronger and stronger that there is substantial damage beneath the sea floor. Indeed, it appears that BP officials themselves have admitted to such damage. This has enormous impacts on both the amount of oil leaking into the Gulf, and the prospects for quickly stopping the leak this summer.
BP destroys proof (http://translate.google.be/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.demorgen.be%2Fdm%2Fnl%2F5397%2FMilieu%2Farticle%2Fdetail%2F1117672%2F2010%2F06%2F12%2FBP-vernielt-systematisch-bewijslast-olieramp-verbergt-zelfs-dode-dieren.dhtml&sl=nl&tl=en)
Evidence Points To BP Oil Spill False Flag (http://www.infowars.com/evidence-points-to-bp-oil-spill-false-flag/)
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/06/02/obama.oil.spill/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aw-tVGgE50
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19591
http://translate.google.be/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wanttoknow.nl%2Fwetenschap%2Fenergie%2Fis-de-bp-olieramp-een-inside-job%2F&sl=nl&tl=en
QuoteBP's prepared testimony briefing, which has since leaked online, also intriguingly notes that the Hydraulic Control System on equipment designed to automatically seal the well in an emergency was modified without their knowledge sometime before the explosion.
"the extent of these modifications is unknown at this time" states the report on page 37.
QuotePossible prior knowledge of the explosion is also evident via huge dumping of stocks and shares in the weeks and days prior to the incident.
Smoking gun? I wonder if no one was supposed to survive that blast to tell the tale...
QuoteHalliburton, the second largest oil operating company in the world, buys on 12 April, one week before the explosion of the "Deepwater Horizon 'oil platform, a small specialist company' Boots & Coots' that specializes in putting out oil fires and the sealing of blow outs of oil wells. Dit bedrijf heeft meer dan 200 van de 700 oliebranden gedoofd die tijdens de Golfoorlog aangestoken waren in Koeweit bij de terugtrekking van Iraakse soldaten. This company has more than 200 of the 700 put out oil fires during the Gulf War in Kuwait were ignited by the withdrawal of Iraqi troops.
Last month, during a political hearing, Halliburton has admitted under oath that a seal with cement operation conducted 20 hours before the oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico went up in flames. Volgens de aangespannen rechtszaken hebben 4 Halliburton medewerkers, die gestationeerd waren op het olieplatform, fatale fouten gemaakt bij het afdichtingsproces van de 450 ton zware 'fool & fail proof´ stalen afsluiter van de oliebron. According to the lawsuits have brought four Halliburton employees who were stationed at the oil platform, fatal mistakes in the process of sealing the 450 ton 'fool & fail-proof steel valve of the oil well.
Possible knowledge of the disaster may be associated with large-scale dumping of shares in the weeks and days before the explosion. Goldman Sachs heeft 44% van z'n aandelen in BP Olie gedumpt. Goldman Sachs has 44% of its shares in BP Oil dumped. Deze aandelen hebben inmiddels 36% van hun waarde verloren ter waarde van 96 miljoen dollar. These shares have now lost 36% of their value amounting to $ 96,000,000. Andere bedrijven in de beurshandel hebben ook grote hoeveelheden BP aandelen verkocht. Other companies in the stock trading have large amounts of BP shares were sold. Maar de 'Wachovia' holding van Goldman die in het bezit is van 'Wells Fargo' maakt het nog bonter door 98% van z'n BP aandelen te verkopen en de Zwiterse bank UBS verkocht 97% van z'n BP aandelen. But the "Wachovia" holding of Goldman in the possession of "Wells Fargo" makes it even gayer by 98% of its BP shares to sell and the Swiss bank UBS sold its 97% of BP shares.
Verder in de London Telegraph van 5 Juni staat dat Tony Hayward, de hoogste directeur van BP, een aantal weken voor de ramp 1.4 miljoen pond aan BP aandelen verkocht heeft. Later in the London Telegraph of June 5 is that Tony Hayward, the top director of BP, several weeks before the disaster, 1.4 million pounds of shares sold to BP.
Interesting, since their MO is always the same. "They" shorted 911, too. Strange, we never did find out from the mainstream news who did that.
QuoteJust place some huge hollow dome(s) over the spill(s). Pipe from the dome to the surface
I had the same thought lol. Those robots could build Atlantis.
QuoteAll in all I think a leaking pipe is quite easy to fix. Cap it with a concrete slab. Or dump concrete cube on it and then cement them shut.
Yeah. It happens all the time, which makes you think there might be something different about this one [leak underground] other than it's under 5000 feet of water.
QuoteNuke the oil spill?
Way, way too risky. Just put that one out of your head. If we see them doing that, we'll know it is a last resort of desperate people.
QuoteHere's What You Need To Know About The $2.2 Trillion Gulf Economy Being Threatened By The Leak
The Gulf States have a GDP of $2.2 trillion
Hang in there, Gulf states. Hopefully, help is on the way. We're praying for you.
:sigh: Got this in an email.....
Gulf Oil Spill 'Could Go Years' If Not Dealt With
By F. William Engdahl
June 10, 2010
The Obama Administration and senior BP officials are frantically working not to stop the world's worst oil disaster, but to hide the true extent of the actual ecological catastrophe. Senior researchers tell us that the BP drilling hit one of the oil migration channels and that the leakage could continue for years unless decisive steps are undertaken, something that seems far from the present strategy.
In a recent discussion, Vladimir Kutcherov, Professor at the Royal Institute of Technology in Sweden and the Russian State University of Oil and Gas, predicted that the present oil spill flooding the Gulf Coast shores of the United States "could go on for years and years ... many years." 1
According to Kutcherov, a leading specialist in the theory of abiogenic deep origin of petroleum, "What BP drilled into was what we call a 'migration channel,' a deep fault on which hydrocarbons generated in the depth of our planet migrate to the crust and are accumulated in rocks, something like Ghawar in Saudi Arabia."3 Ghawar, the world's most prolific oilfield has been producing millions of barrels daily for almost 70 years with no end in sight. According to the abiotic science, Ghawar like all elephant and giant oil and gas deposits all over the world, is located on a migration channel similar to that in the oil-rich Gulf of Mexico.
As I wrote at the time of the January 2010 Haiti earthquake disaster,3 Haiti had been identified as having potentially huge hydrocasrbon reserves, as has neighboring Cuba. Kutcherov estimates that the entire Gulf of Mexico is one of the planet's most abundant accessible locations to extract oil and gas, at least before the Deepwater Horizon event this April.
"In my view the heads of BP reacted with panic at the scale of the oil spewing out of the well," Kutcherov adds. "What is inexplicable at this point is why they are trying one thing, failing, then trying a second, failing, then a third. Given the scale of the disaster they should try every conceivable option, even if it is ten, all at once in hope one works. Otherwise, this oil source could spew oil for years given the volumes coming to the surface already." 4
He stresses, "It is difficult to estimate how big this leakage is. There is no objective information available." But taking into consideration information about the last BP 'giant' discovery in the Gulf of Mexico, the Tiber field, some six miles deep, Kutcherov agrees with Ira Leifer a researcher in the Marine Science Institute at the University of California, Santa Barbara who says the oil may be gushing out at a rate of more than 100,000 barrels a day.5
What the enormoity of the oil spill does is to also further discredit clearly the oil companies' myth of "peak oil" which claims that the world is at or near the "peak" of economical oil extraction. That myth, which has been propagated in recent years by circles close to former oilman and Bush Vice President, Dick Cheney, has been effectively used by the giant oil majors to justify far higher oil prices than would be politically possible otherwise, by claiming a non-existent petroleum scarcity crisis.
Obama & BP Try to Hide
According to a report from Washington investigative journalist Wayne Madsen, "the Obama White House and British Petroleum are covering up the magnitude of the volcanic-level oil disaster in the Gulf of Mexico and working together to limit BP's liability for damage caused by what can be called a 'mega-disaster.'" 6 Madsen cites sources within the US Army Corps of Engineers, FEMA, and Florida Department of Environmental Protection for his assertion.
Obama and his senior White House staff, as well as Interior Secretary Salazar, are working with BP's chief executive officer Tony Hayward on legislation that would raise the cap on liability for damage claims from those affected by the oil disaster from $75 million to $10 billion. According to informed estimates cited by Madsen, however, the disaster has a real potential cost of at least $1,000 billion ($1 trillion). That estimate would support the pessimistic assessment of Kutcherov that the spill, if not rapidly controlled, "will destroy the entire coastline of the United States."
According to the Washington report of Madsen, BP statements that one of the leaks has been contained, are "pure public relations disinformation designed to avoid panic and demands for greater action by the Obama administration. , according to FEMA and Corps of Engineers sources." 7
The White House has been resisting releasing any "damaging information" about the oil disaster. Coast Guard and Corps of Engineers experts estimate that if the ocean oil geyser is not stopped within 90 days, there will be irreversible damage to the marine eco-systems of the Gulf of Mexico, north Atlantic Ocean, and beyond. At best, some Corps of Engineers experts say it could take two years to cement the chasm on the floor of the Gulf of Mexico. 8
Only after the magnitude of the disaster became evident did Obama order Homeland Security Secretary Napolitano to declare the oil disaster a "national security issue." Although the Coast Guard and FEMA are part of her department, Napolitano's actual reasoning for invoking national security, according to Madsen, was merely to block media coverage of the immensity of the disaster that is unfolding for the Gulf of Mexico and Atlantic Ocean and their coastlines.
The Obama administration also conspired with BP to hide the extent of the oil leak, according to the cited federal and state sources. After the oil rig exploded and sank, the government stated that 42,000 gallons per day were gushing from the seabed chasm. Five days later, the federal government upped the leakage to 210,000 gallons a day. However, submersibles monitoring the escaping oil from the Gulf seabed are viewing television pictures of what they describe as a "volcanic-like" eruption of oil.
When the Army Corps of Engineers first attempted to obtain NASA imagery of the Gulf oil slick, which is larger than is being reported by the media, it was reportedly denied the access. By chance, National Geographic managed to obtain satellite imagery shots of the extent of the disaster and posted them on their web site. Other satellite imagery reportedly being withheld by the Obama administration, shows that what lies under the gaping chasm spewing oil at an ever-alarming rate is a cavern estimated to be the size of Mount Everest. This information has been given an almost national security-level classification to keep it from the public, according to Madsen's sources.
The Corps of Engineers and FEMA are reported to be highly critical of the lack of support for quick action after the oil disaster by the Obama White House and the US Coast Guard. Only now has the Coast Guard understood the magnitude of the disaster, dispatching nearly 70 vessels to the affected area. Under the loose regulatory measures implemented by the Bush-Cheney Administration, the US Interior Department's Minerals Management Service became a simple "rubber stamp," approving whatever the oil companies wanted in terms of safety precautions that could have averted such a disaster. Madsen describes a state of "criminal collusion" between Cheney's former firm, Halliburton, and the Interior Department's MMS, and that the potential for similar disasters exists with the other 30,000 off-shore rigs that use the same shut-off valves. 9
Silence from Eco groups?... Follow the money
Without doubt at this point we are in the midst of what could be the greatest ecological catastrophe in history. The oil platform explosion took place almost within the current loop where the Gulf Stream originates. This has huge ecological and climatological consequences.
A cursory look at a map of the Gulf Stream shows that the oil is not just going to cover the beaches in the Gulf, it will spread to the Atlantic coasts up through North Carolina then on to the North Sea and Iceland. And beyond the damage to the beaches, sea life and water supplies, the Gulf stream has a very distinct chemistry, composition (marine organisms), density, temperature. What happens if the oil and the dispersants and all the toxic compounds they create actually change the nature of the Gulf Stream? No one can rule out potential changes including changes in the path of the Gulf Stream, and even small changes could have huge impacts. Europe, including England, is not an icy wasteland due to the warming from the Gulf Stream.
Yet there is a deafening silence from the very environmental organizations which ought to be at the barricades demanding that BP, the US Government and others act decisively.
That deafening silence of leading green or ecology organizations such as Greenpeace, Nature Conservancy, Sierra Club and others may well be tied to a money trail that leads right back to the oil industry, notably to BP. Leading environmental organizations have gotten significant financial payoffs in recent years from BP in order that the oil company could remake itself with an "environment- friendly face," as in "beyond petroleum" the company's new branding.
The Nature Conservancy, described as "the world's most powerful environmental group,"10 has awarded BP a seat on its International Leadership Council after the oil company gave the organization more than $10 million in recent years. 11
Until recently, the Conservancy and other environmental groups worked with BP in a coalition that lobbied Congress on climate-change issues. An employee of BP Exploration serves as an unpaid Conservancy trustee in Alaska. In addition, according to a recent report published by the Washington Post, Conservation International, another environmental group, has accepted $2 million in donations from BP and worked with the company on a number of projects, including one examining oil-extraction methods. From 2000 to 2006, John Browne, then BP's chief executive, sat on the CI board.
Further, The Environmental Defense Fund, another influential ecologist organization, joined with BP, Shell and other major corporations to form a Partnership for Climate Action, to promote 'market-based mechanisms' (sic) to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
Environmental non-profit groups that have accepted donations from or joined in projects with BP include Nature Conservancy, Conservation International, Environmental Defense Fund, Sierra Club and Audubon. That could explain why the political outcry to date for decisive action in the Gulf has been so muted. 12
Of course those organizations are not going to be the ones to solve this catastrophe. The central point at this point is who is prepared to put the urgently demanded federal and international scientific resources into solving this crisis. Further actions of the likes of that from the Obama White House to date or from BP can only lead to the conclusion that some very powerful people want this debacle to continue. The next weeks will be critical to that assessment.
Quote from: Cardinal on June 14, 2010, 08:04:59 AM
At best, some Corps of Engineers experts say it could take two years to cement the chasm on the floor of the Gulf of Mexico.
Ha! So it's now admitted the sea floor is leaking.
I guess Cheney can't sleep of excitement:
- 2+ years of cementing jobs for Halliburton.
- Well closing by Boots & Coots. Weeks before the spill aquired by Halliburton.
- Cleaning by subcontractors hired shortly before the spill.
Luckily Trans Ocean, owner of the rig, had it insured for double it's value.
Obama: Gulf spill 'echoes 9/11'
Sounding reflective as he heads into a bruising electoral season, President Barack Obama told POLITICO columnist Roger Simon that the Gulf disaster "echoes 9/11" because it will change the nation's psyche for years to come.
Obama — facing mounting criticism of his handling of the BP gusher, even from longtime allies — vowed to make a "bold" push for a new energy law even as the calamity continues to unfold. And he said he will use the rest of his presidency to try to put the United States on a course toward a "new way of doing business when it comes to energy."
"In the same way that our view of our vulnerabilities and our foreign policy was shaped profoundly by 9/11," the president said in an Oval Office interview on Friday, "I think this disaster is going to shape how we think about the environment and energy for many years to come."
Previewing his message for the midterm congressional elections in November, the president said: "The Democrats in Congress have taken tougher votes, have worked harder under more stressful circumstances, than just about any Congress in our memory. And they've done a great job and deserve reelection."
"So I'm going to be fighting on their behalf and doing everything I can and using my bully pulpit to communicate that fact to the American people," he said. "I know there's an anti-incumbent mood out there right now because ... people are frustrated about the hit that the economy has taken. ... But what I'm going to remind people of is we didn't create this mess. And this Congress responded forcefully at a time when this economy really could have fallen off a cliff."
Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0610/38468.html#ixzz0qoOMUQOg
John Hofmeister, former president of Shell Oil, founder and CEO of Citizens for Affordable Energy, Inc.
Newport News, Va.: Mr. Hofmeister: President Obama, according to many, can't seem to do anything right re: the spill. In your mind, what could the administration have done differently and better that would have had a marked effect on the recovery effort so far?
John Hofmeister: In my opinion the White House and the President should have gotten up close to the tragedy from day one and been a part of the team at the outset. Instead they held back and jumped in when things weren't going well, as if they had better ideas. Then it all got politicized very quickly when the rhetoric and bullying started in earnest in response to increasingly loud complaints.
Quiet and intense conversation between the key parties is preferable to shouting out loud and "kicking ass." The White House went public to embarrass BP and went over the top by shutting down perfectly safe drilling rigs across the deepwater. It chose to not even talk with the BP CEO. You have to talk to people to solve problems.
It's not too late but it does no good to go down the bully path and the criminal path rightaway. It freezes people in place and builds disrespect and mistrust.
Washington, D.C.: No offense but don't you think the reason people are not listening to your ideas about a flotilla of supertankers sucking up oil is because, like Tony Hayward, they presume you have some financial motivation to say what you are saying? BTW, do you?
John Hofmeister: People might assume that I have a financial interest, except I don't. In my conversations with BP and the Coast Guard the first thing I said was that I have no monetary or financial interest direct or indirect in whether they choose to go this route or not. I simply want to see oil taken out of the ocean and destroyed not wash up on beaches and into marshes.
Aberdeen, S.D.: Would it be possible to equip fishing, larger cargo type ships and or naval ships with portable oil water separtion devices to start remediating the slicks in-situ?
John Hofmeister: Yes. Some of us have been proposing barges to serve as barrier walls with suction pumps and separators on board as well as supertankers to suck the oil off the water and dispose of it in refineries along the coast.
Peaks Island, Maine: What grade would you give Adm. Allen on his descriptions of the process for stopping the flow?
For his explanations of the leak rate determinations and the importance thereof?
John Hofmeister: The Admiral has done a consistently good job of telling it like it is in language that most people can follow. That's a tough task. Fortunately he is a direct, no-nonsense speaker who cares deeply about doing the right thing. My only disagreement with him to date is the refusal to use the suck and salvage method of oil recovery. He preferes burning, dispersing, booming and skimming. I don't think it does a good enough job by themselves. We need more to get more oil off the ocean.
Bethesda, Md.: Would you say the best minds are occupied with finding a way to cap the oil, but no one is minding the business of the execution such as making sure the booms are well placed, and frequently replaced when they have satured? One can obviously see the booms method of cleaning is not working.
John Hofmeister: You characterize it as I do. The scientists and engineers are primarily focused on the well.
The clean up is not getting enough attention or original thinking. We should be able to collect far more oil with pumps and storage systems than we are.
Bethesda, Md.: You mean is the government's decision to use burning, dispersing, booming and skimming? It is not BP's decision?
John Hofmeister: Anything affecting the sea and land is the government's responsibility. They decide and BP provides the resources to execute the tasks.
Arlington, Va.: You have complained that the administration is showing "anti hydrocarbon tendencies". Why is this a bad thing?
John Hofmeister: Hydrocarbons are now and will remain a critical part of our energy system. We've been developing and producing them for over a century. We can't turn them off with a switch and move to something different. In my book "Why We Hate the Oil Companies: Straight Talk from an Energy Insider" I describe a fifty year road map that essentially takes us off most hydrocarbons. Current politicians talks like we can do this in ten or so years. Impossible and impractical, as well as unnecessary. We'll bankrupt the nation if we did because none of the new alternative forms of energy is commercial yet, meaning we have to subsidize it to buid it.
Anonymous: I have heard that The Jones act is preventing us accepting help in skimming the oil up. Could you please tell us about that
John Hofmeister: The Jones Act requires American made vessels be used in US waters. Since we hardly build any ships anymore, there are few qualifed vessels. Our own law is prohibiting more resources from being applied. Sounds silly and it is. Sad but true.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2010/06/10/DI2010061004195.html
My conclusion: Obama only gets his 911 and his drastic energy policies passed and his bankrupting of the country if the oil spill is NOT cleaned up. It is his decision not to suspend the Jones Act and not to call in the supertankers and the barges to employ high volume suck and salvage strategies described by John Hofmeister. What else could be his reason for such neglect? Instead they are pouring millions of gallons of toxic chemicals on the Gulf [Corexit] which many say is making everything worse, and trying to suck up a mammoth oil leak through a straw. Comments? :dontknow:
Is anybody's psyche changed?
My guess is that nothing will be done with Halliburton involved.
If they can clean up the mess in 10 days for $1/day without Halliburton.
Or in 10 years for $500k/day with Halliburton.
Guess what the choice will be.
Because Halliburton doesn't earn from tankers it doesn't own such idea's won't happen.
That's my idea...
Tech update - movie (http://bp.concerts.com/gom/kentwellstechnicalupdate061010a.htm)
Slides of the above. (http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_internet/globalbp/globalbp_uk_english/incident_response/STAGING/local_assets/downloads_pdfs/Kent_Wells_technical_update_061010_slides.pdf)
http://www.sitelab.nl/projects/bp/topkill_fout.jpg
The leaks in the sea floor seems to be 'normal' in that area.
There a 30 meter/100 foot high petrified oil/asphalt hills of ancient oil spills.
Gulf Oil Spill-Gutsy Solution Restores Environment in Just Six Weeks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VfypUzx1tI&feature=youtube_gdata) Hu???? :mshock: :msealed: :mblush: :dontknow:
http://spillfighters.com/
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 14, 2010, 11:48:13 PM
The leaks in the sea floor seems to be 'normal' in that area.
There a 30 meter/100 foot high petrified oil/asphalt hills of ancient oil spills.
Gulf Oil Spill-Gutsy Solution Restores Environment in Just Six Weeks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VfypUzx1tI&feature=youtube_gdata) Hu???? :mshock: :msealed: :mblush: :dontknow:
http://spillfighters.com/
People have been begging them to do this for weeks [microbes], It's proven to work by Texas.
People have been begging them to bring in the supertankers for weeks. They will not do it.
People have been begging them to stop dumping millions of gallons of toxic chemicals into the Gulf.
Now he's down there community organizing fishing boats and pleasure crafts to try to do what one supertanker could do in a day.
He has almost successfully destroyed the entire Gulf economy in two months. And, I'm tired of being called, "Folks."
God help us.
BP has used Corexit 9500A and Corexit 9527A thus far, applying 800,000 US gallons (3,000,000 l) total,[6] but more accurate estimates run as high as 1,000,000 US gallons (3,800,000 l) underwater.[7]
According to the Alaska Community Action on Toxics, the use of Corexit during the Exxon Valdez oil spill caused "respiratory, nervous system, liver, kidney and blood disorders" in people.[9] According to the EPA, Corexit is more toxic than dispersants made by several competitors and less effective in handling southern Louisiana crude.[15] The UK's Marine Management Organisation has banned its use in the North Sea.[16][17][18][19]
Reportedly Corexit is toxic to marine life and helps keep spilled oil submerged. The quantities used in the Gulf will create 'unprecedented underwater damage to organisms.'[20] 9527A is also hazardous for humans: 'May cause injury to red blood cells (hemolysis), kidney or the liver'.[21]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corexit
Cleaners already get sick of Corexit.
Microbes: Ofcourse I'm aware of 'oil eating' microbes. Microbes is how nature solves many things. It's the speed that amazes me. But if you read carefully it only works in calm water. Near the beaches. What about the rest of the sea?
It could very well be those microbes die in Corexit.
Corexit dissolved oil is no longer real oil....
QuoteWhat about the rest of the sea?
One more time, altogether:
SUPERTANKERS
Supertankers are good for storage/transport. But can they actually clean up the oil on the surface and perhaps even more important the corexit mixure below the surface?
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 15, 2010, 08:25:17 AM
Supertankers are good for storage/transport. But can they actually clean up the oil on the surface and perhaps even more important the corexit mixure below the surface?
YES yes YES lol
Or, we could just eat a snowcone and chill.
Headlines from Drudgereport tonight--
LA Gov. Takes Matters Into Own Hands -- Orders Barrier Wall Off Shore...
Obama goes to Gulf, enjoys a snowcone...
Eats shrimp...
...And crawfish...
...And crab cakes...
...And seafood salad...
'Come down here and visit'...
Liberal DC think tank running White House response?
NEVER LET A SERIOUS CRISIS GO TO WASTE: PRESIDENT TO PUSH FOR ENERGY BILL DURING OVAL ADDRESS...
Florida Keys Residents Plan Their Own Cleanup...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GALLUP: Obama's Weekly Job Approval Rating Skid...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe the bill must be signed before any cleaning takes place.
Change...
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 15, 2010, 08:52:36 AM
Maybe the bill must be signed before any cleaning takes place.
Change...
you mean he's holding the Gulf hostage?
In Florida Keys, Residents Plan Their Own Spill CleanupBy Nathan Thornburgh / Key West Monday, Jun. 14, 2010
A small island in the middle of a big ocean, Key West has always made a virtue of its isolation. In 1982, for example, an onerous Border Patrol checkpoint on U.S. Route 1, which links the Keys to mainland Florida, resulted in the island's declaring itself the autonomous Conch Republic. This was, of course, mostly a joke ("We Seceded Where Others Failed" was its e pluribus unum), but the mayor's declaration of independence did include a twinge of real anger and a vow that "we have no intention of suffering in the future at the hands of fools and bureaucrats."
Now, facing the possibility that oil from the Deepwater Horizon spill could arrive on its reefs and beaches in the coming weeks, many in the Florida Keys are once again angry about perceived fools and bureaucrats. In particular, they've watched how BP has monopolized and, in the eyes of many, mismanaged the oil cleanup in the northern Gulf of Mexico and are frantically trying to organize an independent local response.(See pictures of the oil spill.)
"We cannot wait. We have to be prepared," says Dan Robey, whose website KeysSpill.com has gathered 4,000 volunteers, including 300 boat captains, who have offered to help before and after any potential arrival of oil. As Patrick Rice, dean of marine science and technology at Florida Keys Community College, puts it,
"We will not allow the inept responses that have been happening up north to happen here." But there's a problem with their plans for grass-roots activism: BP (and the Deepwater Horizon's Unified Command, which BP runs with the Coast Guard and other agencies) has so far insisted on complete control of the cleanup operations. A BP spokesman told TIME that the only appropriate way for interested boat captains to become involved would be to register with the Unified Command's Vessels of Opportunity program. Never mind that according to BP's numbers,
only a third of the 7,200 boats "under contract" through the program are in active service. Robey says captains in the Keys haven't even been able to register.
"It's a joke, a total joke," he says. "Our people have called them for over a month. They don't return phone calls." (Watch TIME's video "Portraits from the Oil Spill.")
Uncertainty is another complicating factor. Locals want to start preparing now, even though it's unclear how much oil will arrive and in what form — sheen, plume, tar ball or all three. And BP and the Coast Guard won't start really organizing, or funding, a response yet. "The general feeling is that BP has been reluctant to support advanced preparation," says Laura Fox, owner of Danger Charters in Key West. "The Coast Guard's big party line is that until oil is imminent —
within 72 hours — nothing is going to be done.
That's not enough time to protect the 180 miles or more of shoreline that we have in the Keys." So without waiting for protocol, the Keys are making preemptive strikes. A group called Adopt a Mangrove is assigning kayakers their own mangroves to clean if oil comes. Volunteers are monitoring shores throughout the islands for signs of oil. The Florida Keys Environmental Coalition formed to connect boat captains, scientists, environmental activists and various agencies. Fox coordinated a cleanup of Man Key, a mangrove island west of Key West (oil is easier to clean off a beach that is in good condition). "It was all women, actually," she says. "Thirteen women in kayaks, clenching knives in their teeth, cutting monofilament fishing line off the mangroves and clearing trash. We brought 35 bags of trash off the island."
See 12 people to blame for the oil spill.
See pictures of critters caught in the oil spill.
Read more:
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1996441,00.html
Quote from: Molly on June 15, 2010, 10:09:35 AM
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 15, 2010, 08:52:36 AM
Maybe the bill must be signed before any cleaning takes place.
you mean he's holding the Gulf hostage?
Would that suprise you?
QuoteIn Florida Keys, Residents Plan Their Own Spill Cleanup
They should buy a gallon of those bacteria, breed them and feed them :laughing7:
I think they may even bump into legal problems if they attempt to cleanup.
:sigh: This just gets more and more ridiculous. Dare I say in the event of a nuclear or other strike, they'll be roasting marshmallows and selling sunglasses??? :BangHead: :btantrum: :wacko2:
Only after a fall-out-tax bill is signed.
And only .gov-buddy sunglasses are sold.
As for the oil cleanup; my guess is whatever way it's will be done, Halliburton will earn from it.
And every other way will be lobbied against.
Just look at it in a very simple way. There is no need for high tech of any kind. No super tankers etc.
Clean up can start now. Every gallon is a gallon. Nice opportunitie for the unemployed to earn some extra cash.
And meanwhile scientists can discuss large scale cleaning methods and take over then.
But right now why not give thousaunds of unenployed people a bucket, fair wages and start right now.
Yes we can the oil :laughing7:
http://translate.google.nl/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.endandit.nl%2Fen-nog%2F150616338%2Foliedomme-amerikanen-weten-beter&sl=nl&tl=en
If you have trouble understanding the Google transled text lemme know.
Cleaning the beach with paper towels. (http://motherjones.com/rights-stuff/2010/06/grande-terre-dolphin-towels-bp-cleanup)
(http://motherjones.com/files/images/113563218.jpg)
They must have been inspired by that video, "BP Spills Coffee." :sigh:
supertankerssupertankerssupertankerssupertankerssupertanke
I did read the fine print :winkgrin:
I doubt they will listen. US coastguard is even to arrogant to listen to advise on how to efficiently use for example the sweeping arms they recieved. Because of that arriogance they are used at only 20% effiency. Well just, try to, read the short article.
QuoteWell just, try to, read the short article.
That link didn't work for me. But, I can just imagine.
Market Commentary and Intraday News
Scientists: Oil leaking up to 2.52M gallons daily
1 hour, 32 minutes ago
By RAY HENRY
http://news.ino.com/headlines/?newsid=6897166869702
Dutch consul slams US foot-dragging on oil spill
Published on : 10 June 2010 - 3:48pm
Three days after BP's Deepwater Horizon drilling platform exploded in the Gulf of Mexico, the Netherlands offered to help. Ships could have set about clearing the oil using Dutch sweeping arms, but the US government didn't take up the offer. Dutch Consul General Geert Visser in Houston told Radio Netherlands Worldwide he was disappointed.
The US response, says Mr Visser: "'Thanks for your help, but at the moment we can manage ourselves.' And that was it." He puts the reticence down to pride.
Late
Weeks later the pride was forgotten and the US came to the Dutch for help after all. "Almost a month later – a month too late, of course – Washington did make a request to send the sweeping arms to Houston in Texas," says Mr Visser. "They arrived in three 747s, ten days later. They were then transported to Louisiana to be mounted on ships."
US ships are now fitted with the arms and should be operational within a few days. Each pair of arms can clear around 20,000 tons of oil a day.
Experience
Mr Visser thinks Dutch experience with water management and dyke construction may have played a role in the change in US attitude. "They evidently realised that the Netherlands has superior equipment that can work quickly and efficiently."
The US also initially turned down another Dutch proposal. The Dutch knowledge institute Deltares and dredging company Van Oord put forward a plan to build a sand dyke stretching for dozens of kilometres within three weeks. And here too, Washington came round in the end.
Jones Act
Not only capricious US decision-making has made life difficult for the Dutch companies, but also protective US legislation. Consul General Geert Visser's pet hate is the Jones Act: "It means that Dutch ships, or whatever other ships not under a US flag, can't operate in US waters." According to the Jones Act, all goods in US waters have to be transported by US ships.
On Wednesday it was announced that oil company BP is increasing its capacity to capture the oil escaping from the leaking well in the Gulf of Mexico. The company has installed a cap over the well. From next week it hopes to increase the containment capacity from around 15,000 barrels a day to 28,000.
http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/dutch-consul-slams-us-foot-dragging-oil-spill
Quote from: Molly on June 16, 2010, 04:33:31 AMThree days after BP's Deepwater Horizon drilling platform exploded in the Gulf of Mexico, the Netherlands offered to help. Ships could have set about clearing the oil using Dutch sweeping arms, but the US government didn't take up the offer. Dutch Consul General Geert Visser in Houston told Radio Netherlands Worldwide he was disappointed.
The US response, says Mr Visser: "'Thanks for your help, but at the moment we can manage ourselves.' And that was it." He puts the reticence down to pride.
Late
Weeks later the pride was forgotten and the US came to the Dutch for help after all. "Almost a month later – a month too late, of course – Washington did make a request to send the sweeping arms to Houston in Texas," says Mr Visser. "They arrived in three 747s, ten days later. They were then transported to Louisiana to be mounted on ships."
US ships are now fitted with the arms and should be operational within a few days. Each pair of arms can clear around 20,000 tons of oil a day.
That's part of the link that doesn't work for you. Because of the same pride US coast guard refuses to listen on how exactly those arms should be used. Now the arms are only used for 5% of their capacity.
The German marine offered so called Pac-Man ships.
(http://dvice.com/archives/2010/06/oil-spill-time.php)
QuoteBecause of the same pride US coast guard refuses to listen on how exactly those arms should be used. Now the arms are only used for 5% of their capacity.
That can't be pride. They are just following orders. It might be stupidity. Or it might be something more sinister. Wish I could read the article.
Turning them down in the first place--do you have any idea how bad that looks? No thanks, we want the Gulf destroyed.
As, the candidate for gov of Ohio said tonight, He's destroyed the Gulf, now he wants to destroy the midwest with his energy bill.
Change...
Gulf Fisherman On Oil Spill: 'Our Way Of Life Is Over. It's The End, The Apocalypse'
MATTHEW BROWN | 05/31/10 09:36 PM |
Meanwhile, the location of the spill couldn't be worse.
To the south lies an essential spawning ground for imperiled Atlantic bluefin tuna and sperm whales. To the east and west, coral reefs and the coastal fisheries of Florida, Alabama, Mississippi and Texas. And to the north, Louisiana's coastal marshes.
More than 125 miles of Louisiana coastline already have been hit with oil. "It's just killing us by degrees," said Tulane University ecologist Tom Sherry.http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/31/gulf-fisherman-oil-spill_n_595400.html
Quote from: Molly on June 16, 2010, 08:55:36 AM
QuoteBecause of the same pride US coast guard refuses to listen on how exactly those arms should be used. Now the arms are only used for 5% of their capacity.
That can't be pride. They are just following orders. It might be stupidity. Or it might be something more sinister. Wish I could read the article.
It's a short article. You already know most all of it now.
This is the original link: http://www.endandit.nl/en-nog/150616338/oliedomme-amerikanen-weten-beter
Try translating it your self with a translation service of your choice.
http://translate.google.com/#
http://uk.babelfish.yahoo.com/
Quote from: Molly on June 16, 2010, 08:55:36 AM
Turning them down in the first place--do you have any idea how bad that looks? No thanks, we want the Gulf destroyed.
Not just then Gulf Molly. If that oil 'slips' in the ???? it will come to Europe.
????=huge transatlantic tide/stream/current. Not a clue how it's called. We call it "Gulf stream" or "North-Atlantic Drift"
If Obama was real change he now would have been looking in all corners of the world how to get help.
But it seems to be against the US law to even let foreign crews/ships be in the Gulf.
QuoteBut it seems to be against the US law to even let foreign crews/ships be in the Gulf.
He can suspend the Jones Act the way Bush did for Katrina. Hard to believe Bush is suddenly looking like a genius in comparison.
Yes, you're right, once it hits the Gulf stream around the tip of Florida, it heads up the east coast, into the rich fishing grounds of the North Atlantic, and over to Europe. Not just the oil, the however many millions of gallons of toxic chemicals they used as well. :sigh:
The Gulf right now and from the beginning was this perfect placid pool to clean it up way out to sea. Oil floats if you don't sink it with dispersant.
It should have never reached the shores. This falls on the executive office and no one else. BP could not bring in this kind of help without the President's approval. The American people need to understand this.
The world should demand he bring in every ship and technology available
to clean this up. This is now becoming the world's problem.
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 16, 2010, 09:12:21 AM
Quote from: Molly on June 16, 2010, 08:55:36 AM
QuoteBecause of the same pride US coast guard refuses to listen on how exactly those arms should be used. Now the arms are only used for 5% of their capacity.
That can't be pride. They are just following orders. It might be stupidity. Or it might be something more sinister. Wish I could read the article.
It's a short article. You already know most all of it now.
This is the original link: http://www.endandit.nl/en-nog/150616338/oliedomme-amerikanen-weten-beter
Try translating it your self with a translation service of your choice.
http://translate.google.com/#
http://uk.babelfish.yahoo.com/
ROTTERDAM (DUTCH PRESS AGENCY) - the Dutch contribution to the suppression of the oil calamity in the golf of Mexico is insufficiently exploited. The communication with the Americans goes laboriously and it is listened badly to the Dutch experts.
A zegsman of Rotterdamse Tuesday has confirmed a bulletin about that of radio the Netherlands world broadcasting to company Mariflex. At this moment seven Dutch in the United States give to recommendation concerning the use of six veegarmen that realm water state to the American coast guard have been provided. These can absorb each 240 barrels oil per hour.
But the American authorities lay down, the Dutch recommendation beside itself '', put a spokesman of Mariflex. , thus we that it is more malignant further of the source oil, clear because oil is there thicker think and therefore improve to absorb. '' The Americans beat this Council however as yet in wind. , that is best frustrating '', thus the Dutch company. , we have been nevertheless engaged because of our expertise. ''
Scarcely 5 per cent
Since the ships last week to the battle, but 10 barrels oil per day have gone have been clearred, scarcely 5 per cent of the capacity of the poor. , the operation a piece more effectively and more rapidly is possible gone if it would be listened there to the Dutch. ''
Also the American legislation limits the ships in their does and leave. Thus cannot ship with a larger rise capacity to be used at the operation because they do not sail under American flag.
According to Mariflex is possible, the clearing operation, still certain some months will last ''. The aid of the Netherlands followed on an American aid request at the European Commission.
Published on: 15.06.10 10:00
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Quote from: Molly on June 16, 2010, 09:34:07 AM
It should have never reached the shores. This falls on the executive office and no one else. BP could not bring in this kind of help without the President's approval. The American people need to understand this
The way I understand it BP has nothing to say in the matter.
.gov is in charge now. BP may suggest thing. Must pay things. And above all follow orders of .gov
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 16, 2010, 10:09:09 AM
Quote from: Molly on June 16, 2010, 09:34:07 AM
It should have never reached the shores. This falls on the executive office and no one else. BP could not bring in this kind of help without the President's approval. The American people need to understand this
The way I understand it BP has nothing to say in the matter.
.gov is in charge now. BP may suggest thing. Must pay things. And above all follow orders of .gov
And not only that, he's making this big show of making BP pay for everything. How is BP supposed to pay for the destruction of 2.2 trillion dollars in domestic product? What are we dealing with here? Oh, I forgot, a lawyer.
WW is that you who sent over those gigantic skimmers? :gangel:
If so, I forgive you for shorting the dollar. :laughing7:
BTW, anything skimmed off the Gulf gets dumped into landfill. Right now BP is burning off the oil they are collecting at the site.
But the supertankers will allow the oil to be reused after it is separated from the water. Therefore,...
supertankerssupertankerssupertankerssupertankerssupertankerssupertanke
Collected oil can be refined. It has be suggested to build very simple refineries near the cost.
Get the water, animals, chemicals, etc out. Oh, I forgot paper towels :winkgrin: In a way they making it pure crude again.
Then it can be sold to regular refineries.
I think it's the way to go. Then at least so cash is made to pay for the cleaning. And it's better for the environment than burning and/or dumping it in a landfill.
Quote from: Molly on June 16, 2010, 10:14:55 AM
How is BP supposed to pay for the destruction of 2.2 trillion dollars in domestic product?
It's simple. BP is never gonna pay that. They simply don't have that cash.
QuoteWW is that you who sent over those gigantic skimmers? :gangel:
I sent over a scammer somewhere in 2008. Isn't that enough help? :icon_jokercolor:
If so, I forgive you for shorting the dollar. :laughing7: (http://if%20so,%20i%20forgive%20you%20for%20shorting%20the%20dollar.%20:laughing7:)Well, erm I have to compensate for the higher price of seafood somehow. On teh bright side sardines in oil likely come down in price.
:cloud9: They are beyond belief.....Washington makes dead people look lively.... :mshock:
Quote from: Cardinal on June 15, 2010, 10:36:52 AM
:sigh: This just gets more and more ridiculous. Dare I say in the event of a nuclear or other strike, they'll be roasting marshmallows and selling sunglasses??? :BangHead: :btantrum: :wacko2:
Nah, you could get cancer from eating those marshmallows! Wait, that would mean more profits for the drug companies to anyone who treats said radiation-induced cancer through conventional means.
Okaloosa defies Unified Command over East Pass plans
DESTIN — Okaloosa County isn't taking oil spill orders any more.
June 15, 2010 4:40 PM
County commissioners voted unanimously to give their emergency management team the power to take whatever action it deems necessary to prevent oil from the Deepwater Horizon spill from entering Choctawhatchee Bay through the East Pass.
Hundreds of tar balls wash up overnight -- read the latest update.
That means the team, led by Public Safety Director Dino Villani, can take whatever action it sees fit to protect the pass without having its plans approved by state or federal authorities.
Commission chairman Wayne Harris said he and his fellow commissioners made their unanimous decision knowing full well they could be prosecuted for it.
"We made the decision legislatively to break the laws if necessary. We will do whatever it takes to protect our county's waterways and we're prepared to go to jail to do it," he said.
That freed Villani to take several actions deemed important to further armor the Destin pass without waiting for authorization from the state Emergency Operations Center in Tallahassee and the unified spill command in Mobile.
Commissioners gave him the go-ahead to spend $200,000 to pay for an underwater "air curtain" designed to push oil up where it can be collected and $16,500 a day to operate and maintain it.
He has authority to, without a nod from the U.S. Coast Guard, deploy barges, weighted so that they'll sit low in the water across the entrance to the pass.
He is also authorized to look into a slip curtain, another underwater oil-catching device.
Though they now have the authority, both Villani and Okaloosa County Administrator Jim Curry said they will continue to work with the state and federal authorities to get their plans approved.
Curry said what the commissioners did Monday was "send a loud and clear message" to the Coast Guard, the state Department of Environmental Protection and others that Okaloosa County's permit requests should be acted on immediately.
The commission met in an emergency meeting alongside the Destin City Council. The two governing bodies confronted a full room of obviously frustrated people, many of whom advocated filling in the entrance of the pass to close it down completely.
It was agreed that filling in the pass was a bad idea that could have serious environmental impacts.
Jay Prothro, BP's representative for Okaloosa County, and two representatives of the Coast Guard were also present.
While Martha LaGuardia, a commander with the Coast Guard, argued that moving ideas and plans through the chain of command was the proper way to do things, Harris made it known the County Commission was tired of the often tedious and sometimes unproductive bureaucracy.
"We've played the game. We're done playing the game."
http://www.nwfdailynews.com/news/pass-30005-command-plans.html
:cloud9: Surely not.......another State (ie. Arizona) or county is passing laws or ignoring red tape ones to protect themselves because the feds won't step up to the plate.....I've never seen anything like it. We are getting closer and closer to total anarchy and it's Washington's fault. :sigh:
:cloud9: This is sad..... :sigh:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100616/ap_on_re_us/us_gulf_oil_spill_marine_life_2
Quote from: Cardinal on June 17, 2010, 07:23:23 AM
:cloud9: Surely not.......another State (ie. Arizona) or county is passing laws or ignoring red tape ones to protect themselves because the feds won't step up to the plate.....I've never seen anything like it. We are getting closer and closer to total anarchy and it's Washington's fault. :sigh:
I think it actually might be good, Cardinal. People are starting to take back their power. So much power has accumulated in the executive branch over the past few decades that was never intended by the founders. The power was to reside in the States and in the people.
Now we have one man who can declare [illegal] war, give lists of Americans to be killed, has his own private [executive branch] army, can keep the Gulf from being cleaned up by ignoring the problem and preventing international help, etc etc etc.
Maybe it's time for Change after all.
Quote from: Molly on June 17, 2010, 09:02:00 AM
Quote from: Cardinal on June 17, 2010, 07:23:23 AM
:cloud9: Surely not.......another State (ie. Arizona) or county is passing laws or ignoring red tape ones to protect themselves because the feds won't step up to the plate.....I've never seen anything like it. We are getting closer and closer to total anarchy and it's Washington's fault. :sigh:
I think it actually might be good, Cardinal.
.....
Maybe it's time for Change after all.
Make the White House white again. No more blood red walls and dollar green carpets... :icon_jokercolor:
If orchestrated well a little rebellion can't be stopped. Just make sure everyone knows the Washington blocks cleanup and causing massive job loss....
Spill reveals Obama's lack of executive experience
By: Byron York
Chief Political Correspondent
June 8, 2010
In mid-February 2008, fresh from winning a bunch of Super Tuesday primaries, Barack Obama granted an interview to "60 Minutes" correspondent Steve Croft. "When you sit down and you look at [your] resume," Croft said to Obama, "there's no executive experience, and in fact, correct if I'm wrong, the only thing that you've actually run was the Harvard Law Review."
"Well, I've run my Senate office, and I've run this campaign," Obama said.
Seven months later, after receiving the Democratic presidential nomination, Obama talked with CNN's Anderson Cooper. At the time, the news was dominated by Hurricane Gustav, which was headed toward New Orleans and threatening to become a Katrina-like disaster. "Some of your Republican critics have said you don't have the experience to handle a situation like this," Cooper said to Obama. "They in fact have said that Governor Palin has more executive experience. ..."
"Governor Palin's town of Wasilla has, I think, 50 employees," Obama answered. "We have got 2,500 in this campaign. I think their budget is maybe $12 million a year. You know, we have a budget of about three times that just for the month. So, I think that our ability to manage large systems and to execute, I think, has been made clear over the last couple of years."
Obama ignored Palin's experience as governor of Alaska, which was considerably bigger than the Obama campaign. But his point was clear: If you're worried about my lack of my executive experience, look at my campaign. Running a first-rate campaign, Obama and his supporters argued, showed that Obama could run the federal government, even at its most testing moments. He could set goals, demand accountability, and, perhaps most importantly, bend the sprawling federal bureaucracy to his will.
Fast forward to 2010. The oil leak in the Gulf of Mexico is gushing out of control. The Obama administration is at first slow to see the seriousness of the accident. Then, as the crisis becomes clear, the federal bureaucracy becomes entangled in itself trying to deal with the problem. "At least a dozen federal agencies have taken part in the spill response," the New York Times reports, "making decision-making slow, conflicted and confused, as they sought to apply numerous federal statutes."
For example, it took the Department of Homeland Security more than a week to classify the spill as an event calling for the highest level of federal action. And when state officials in Louisiana tried over and over to win federal permission to build sand barriers to protect fragile coastal wetlands from the oil, they got nowhere. "For three weeks, as the giant slick crept closer to shore," the Times reports, "officials from the White House, Coast Guard, Army Corps of Engineers, Fish and Wildlife Service, National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration and Environmental Protection Agency debated the best approach."
The bureaucracy wasn't bending to anyone's will. The direction from the top was not clear. And accountability? So far, the only head that has rolled during the Gulf crisis has been that of Minerals Management Service chief Elizabeth Birnbaum. But during a May 27 news conference, Obama admitted he didn't even know whether she had resigned or been fired. "I found out about it this morning, so I don't yet know the circumstances," the president said. "And [Interior Secretary] Ken Salazar's been in testimony on the Hill." Obama's answer revealed that he hadn't fired Birnbaum, and he couldn't reach a member of his Cabinet who was a few blocks down Pennsylvania Avenue.
Given all that, perhaps candidates in future presidential races will think twice before arguing that running their campaign counts as executive experience.
A few days before Obama won the White House, Bill Clinton joined him for a late-night rally in Kissimmee, Fla. Clinton, who became president after 12 years as a governor, told the crowd not to worry about Obama's lack of executive background. Given the brilliance of Obama's campaign, Clinton said -- and here the former president uncharacteristically mangled his words a bit -- a President Obama would be "the chief executor of good intentions as president."
Chief executor of good intentions? Perhaps that's what Obama is now. But with oil gushing into the Gulf, that's just not good enough.
Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Spill-reveals-Obama_s-lack-of-executive-experience-95819074.html#ixzz0r5mzNXDQ
:cloud9: Hey Molly.....I was being humorous......I think it's good too. They are not listening. Now maybe they will start.
And on another sour note.....are you ready for this? :mshock:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/new-bill-gives-obama-kill-switch-to-shut-down-the-internet.html
Just what I'd want to happen in a national emergency.....NOT. :omg: :bottlebump: :grave:
Yikes. Isn't that what Iran did last year--shut down the internet? Isn't Iran a dictatorship? Why would Joe Lieberman and Jay Rockefeller aspire to the policies of a dictatorship in Iran? Do they admire Iran that much? What other dictatorships do they admire? Mao? Stalin?
And what does Jay Rockefeller have in common with one of the poorest States in the Union?
As a great-grandson of oil tycoon John D. Rockefeller, he is the only current politician of the prominent six-generation Rockefeller family and the only Democrat in what has been a traditionally progressive Republican dynasty.[1]
--Wikipedia
Born on Friday, June 18, 1937, at 9:30 PM at New York Hospital in New York City to John D. Rockefeller III and Blanchette Ferry Hooker just 26 days after the death of his great-grandfather John D. Rockefeller, Sr. Jay Rockefeller graduated from the private school Phillips Exeter Academy in 1954.
--Wikipedia.
He was born in New York with a silver spoon in his mouth. How did he find his way to West Virginia? Along the Appalachian trail one summer between Exeter and Harvard?
Aug 28, 2007 ... Maryland knocked New Jersey out of the top spot this year, while Mississippi and West Virginia were the poorest states in the Union. ...
http://money.cnn.com/2007/08/28/real_estate/wealthiest_states/
Maybe we should call our Senators and point this out to them--
Lieberman's approval rating in a poll taken January 4–5, 2010, was 25% approve versus 67% who disapprove, making him one of the least popular Senators currently in office.[8]
--Wikipedia
Do they really want to be in that kind of company?
And maybe we should all learn to tweet like they did in Iran. :mblush:
:cloud9: More news and opinion on spill....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPiFxNnNLiA
QuoteHe states the flow of oil is 120,000 barrels a day and also describes an underwater lake of oil 1100 meters below the surface, covering 40% of the Gulf of Mexico.
Meaning the whole eco-syste will collaps. So not only life on the bottom dies. Cleaning efforts right now are "minimal" and are only on the beaches and surface. Maybe a little below the surface but certainly not at 1100 meters.
QuoteRelief wells are useless he says, and will only triple the flow of oil and gas, and ultimately fail.
A weird statement.
The oil field will indeed increase output. But the new wells do not spill the oil, but transport it to tankers.
Pressure on the broken well lessens and because of that can hopefully be closed.
QuoteMeaning the whole eco-syste will collaps.
I'm having trouble understanding this. Does he mean the plumes are being caused by other leaks through the rockbed of the ocean floor? And, does that mean they are making their way slowly to the surface?
We know the dispersant is causing bodies of oil to sink. But are the plumes something different?
We were discussing earlier if Obama was holding the Gulf hostage to get his energy bill passed. Why won't he suspend the Jones act and call in the supertankers? His speech showed that the only thing on his mind is his energy legislation, not cleaning up the Gulf. The Gulf is still left slowly swinging in the wind, begging for help.
The General who flightlifted the city of New Orleans to safety after Katrina was on CNN saying that the army needs to be called to the Gulf to handle the command and control aspect--zooming around in small boats locating the oil and calling in the skimmers.
But Glenn Beck had something interesting to say tonight. He said, as we know, that Obama has suspended Gulf drilling for at least 6 months, and those rigs were going to be taken to other locations, which he suggested would be in Brazil where they would be put to work deep water drilling for Petrobus, which I think he said Soros owns a big share in. So there seems to be more to this than meets the eye.
At 2.4 million gallons leaking a day, and possibly much more, these skimmers are not up to the job alone. Therefore,--
supertankerssupertankerssupertankerssupertankerssupertanke
:sigh: This is long, it's a radio show, but every praying person should listen to this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WgjobZcAeA
Here's an oil tracker map. Can't you just see that oil being sucked up by giant supertankers?
Those four blobs miles from the spill---are those the plumes?
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/05/01/us/20100501-oil-spill-tracker.html
The "estimated extent" of the oil slick is an estimate by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration of where oil is mostly likely to go based on wind and ocean current forecasts, as well as analysis of aerial photography and satellite imagery. The "surveyed extent" show areas where oil was visible on the surface of the water during aerial surveys of the Gulf. The surveyed extents are not available every day and may be incomplete on some days because poor weather conditions prevented observation in some areas.
The extents may vary widely from day to day because of changes in wind patterns and ocean currents
Hey Jude--Bring in the supertankers and the Army!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WObObNVzgWQ&feature=related
12 These are spots in your love feasts, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; 13 raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.
--Jude 1
Quote from: Molly on June 18, 2010, 02:22:56 AM
QuoteMeaning the whole eco-system will collaps.
I'm having trouble understanding this. Does he mean the plumes are being caused by other leaks through the rockbed of the ocean floor? And, does that mean they are making their way slowly to the surface?
I posted a link to a huge page (can't find it anymore) Some expert claimed it's a myth oil floats. It does in pure form, but due to all kinds of interaction with the enviorment it can also sink.
QuoteWe know the dispersant is causing bodies of oil to sink. But are the plumes something different?
The dispersant was applied at wellhead level. If it really works the oil won't float to the surface. There are also clouds 10-100 meters below the surface.
QuoteWe were discussing earlier if Obama was holding the Gulf hostage to get his energy bill passed. Why won't he suspend the Jones act and call in the supertankers? His speech showed that the only thing on his mind is his energy legislation, not cleaning up the Gulf. The Gulf is still left slowly swinging in the wind, begging for help.
Politicians... need I say more? This was/is the perfect oportunity for Obama to show his change..
QuoteAt 2.4 million gallons leaking a day, and possibly much more, these skimmers are not up to the job alone.
And even if they could skim 200 million gallons a day... they skim the surface, not the clouds at half a mile deep.
Quote from: Molly on June 18, 2010, 06:21:43 AM
Here's an oil tracker map. Can't you just see that oil being sucked up by giant supertankers?
Those four blobs miles from the spill---are those the plumes?
They are dangerously close to being sucked into the Gulf stream. But who cares. Out of sight out of heart we would say
I just noticed it isn't a static map :BangHead:
Firstly I think it shows how unreliable the measurements are. The spill seems to shrink in some parts of the slideshow.
Then bit later the size seems to be stable. But if I look closer it looks like bit chunks are torn by the Gulf Stream and transported into the ocean.
So Molly, I think your 4 blobs will be gone soon. I wouldn't be suprised they pass Key West in the next few days.
:cloud9: One of my FB friends who lives in the area, was talking about how bad it is, and that "they" are spraying that overhead at night and apparently by the wind, it's going around people's homes, too. I think this catastrophe in the making is why Obama wants the internet blackout so when the worst happens (and it hasn't yet), the country won't be instantly informed. They're already keeping the news media away. :sigh:
Summary from the article below:
It was never attempted to close the well. All attempts were to fully open it.
The reason is that the pipe is broken below the seafloor and oil is eroding the seafloor.
This eroding will get worse as time passes an will get uncontroleble.
The 450 ton BOP (blow out preventor) is slowly tipping over. The soft seafloor can't support the weight. Neither can the broken pipe.
If it tips over the drill hole will be wide open. Unstoppeble flow of 150.000 barrels/day = 6,300,000 gallons/day (minimum)
The field is huge because it was supposed to be a big step for the USA of independance of Middle East oil.
Currently BP is drilling relief wells to take of the pressure of the broken well and cracked seafloor.
If they are fast enough there is a chance to stop the spill. If not... what we have seen up to now is kiddy stuff.
The operation top kill was never intended to cap the well but to vacuum out even more oil so pressure drops elsewere.
http://www.theoildrum.com/
=> leading site of oil and geological experts.
=> They were right on all their predictions until now.
The original article in Dutch (http://www.fanatiek.nl/worldwide/actua/het-olielek-de-golf-van-mexico-wel-te-dichten)
The above page translated into English (http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fanatiek.nl%2Fworldwide%2Factua%2Fhet-olielek-de-golf-van-mexico-wel-te-dichten&sl=nl&tl=en)
Or translate it yourself with: http://translate.google.com/#
40 million people in Gulf oil spill region to be "evacuated" by military, sources say (http://usahitman.com/?p=7184)
The US military is preparing to "evacuate" 40 million people in the region of the Gulf oil spill under the pretext of toxicity, according to sources.
40 million people could only be accomodated in the notorious FEMA camps, built around the country and resembling concentration camps or prisons and with on site incinerators.
Although this move to camps appears to be being sold to people as only temporary, there is strong evidence that the oil spill was started deliberately in order to implement martial law and find an excuse to put people in FEMA prison camps as part of a Bilderberg agenda to take of the USA.
This is a report:
"Info from an Oil Industry guy in Texas :
Gulf oil spill cannot be stopped using any conventional method as the Well Riser Pipe has become loose in the drill hole and oil is gushing out from around the base of the pipe. and the casing pipe has become fractured from pumping high pressure mud during the top kill process. Other geological reports are now surfacing that there are several other very large leaks some distance from the well head as the sea bottom has been fractured from the high pressure (2200psi) of 80K barrels a day seeping horizontally into layers of surrounding strata.
There is currently a major news black out over the entire area from New Orleans to Florida, but my sources tell me the following is currently in the staging process for the following:
Military is mobilizing for an all out evacuation of the entire region approximately 40M people due to extreme toxicity of the methane, hydrogen sulfide and hydrogen cyanide, other reports indicate the only solution that can possibly contain the main leak is a Nuke placed down the second relief Well sometime in September. Remember: I did tell you that was what it would take!.
Big problem is where to put the displaced persons until they can effect a fix.
Furthermore if the seabed is already fractured the Nuke could cause the situation to become untenable if it isn't perfectly executed and really no one knows exactly how much explosive force is required and not harm the cap over the oil field which stretches from Venezuela to Utah.
Moreover: BP and Transocean will be filing bankruptcy within a couple of weeks leaving the American people to foot the bill which is expected to reach half a Trillion Dollars. BP has already spent 2 Billion and US Coast Guard and Navy another 3 Billion and that is nothing compared to the clean up if this goes on until the Oct or Nov.
This could push the US over the brink as there are no sources available to borrow any additional money.
My source tell me that If the seabed is fractured then all gulf coast drilling will be suspended.. period and that will force the price of energy and gas to double world wide within a few months
There is a lot more but Ill save you from the worst case scenario regarding the final option. Its unthinkable if it goes wrong!
I know this sounds a bit extreme but my information is rock solid.
(end of info)
This only appears to confirm what people like Lindsey Williams, & others, have already stated.
Lindsey Williams video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncpwT0ScYww&feature=player_embedded)
Quote...over the oil field which stretches from Venezuela to Utah
They must have hit a dinosaur migration path. :mblush:
Won't it be nice to get science back some day?
Quote from: Molly on June 18, 2010, 03:34:18 PM
Quote...over the oil field which stretches from Venezuela to Utah
Hu? :mshock: Stop all the oil wars and start pumping in your own back yard. :icon_jokercolor:
QuoteThey must have hit a dinosaur migration path. :mblush:
Assuming that's the source of oil...
QuoteAssuming that's the source of oil...
I was being heavily sarcastic, unless we think that dinosaurs hung out in large trenches 35000 feet below the earth's crust.
QuoteStop all the oil wars and start pumping in your own back yard.
Such a good idea. But, according to the President, we've run out of places to drill.
[those wars were never about oil because oil exists in unlimited quantities, as we are finding out right now.]
Deepwater Horizon was an ultra-deepwater, dynamically positioned, semi-submersible offshore drilling rig. Built in 2001 in South Korea, it was owned by Transocean, registered in Majuro, Marshall Islands, and leased to BP plc until 2013.[7]
In September 2009, the rig drilled the deepest oil well in history at a vertical depth of 35,050 ft (10,680 m) and measured depth of 35,055 ft (10,685 m).[8] On April 20, 2010, an explosion on the rig killed eleven crewmen. The resulting fire could not be extinguished and, on April 22, 2010, Deepwater Horizon sank, leaving its well gushing and causing the largest offshore oil spill in United States history.[9]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deepwater_Horizon
By April 20, the Deepwater Horizon well operation was already running five weeks late.[23] Internal BP documents show that BP engineers had concerns as early as 2009 that the metal casing BP wanted to use might collapse under high pressure.[24] In March 2010, the rig experienced problems that included drilling mud falling into the undersea oil formation, sudden gas releases, a pipe falling into the well, and at least three occasions of the blowout preventer leaking fluid.[24] The rig's mechanic has stated that the well had problems for months and that the drill repeatedly kicked due to high gas pressure providing resistance.[23] The levels of gas coming up from the well were twice as high as he'd ever seen in his career.[23]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deepwater_Horizon_drilling_rig_explosion
:sigh: I have read some reports that say the nuke could create an active volcano because of what's below this strata is molten. Also, this oil is not fossil fuel (only). They now think the books need to be rewritten because the oil is being made by the earth's core somehow. I didn't understand that part, but it was sobering. I think we are living in the worst man-made catastrophe the world has ever seen and I think it's going to get a lot worse, before it's over, if it ever is. Blessings....
Quote from: Cardinal on June 18, 2010, 06:22:48 PMI think we are living in the worst man-made catastrophe the world has ever seen and I think it's going to get a lot worse, before it's over, if it ever is. Blessings....
http://coyoteprime-runningcauseicantfly.blogspot.com/2010/05/methane-gulf-oil-disasters-nightmare.html
QuoteAccording to geologist Gerald Dickens, frozen methane hydrate welling up from the ocean floor resulted in the mass extinction of the Late Paleocene period some 55 million years ago - and similar claims have been made for what geologists call the Great Dying, the mass extinction of most life 200 million years before that, at the end of the Permian period.
While the methane can cause greenhouse effects the oil can cause other effects. A film of oil slows evaporation. Meaning less rain. Disrupting the gulf stream meaning some parts of the world slip into a "ice age". But that guesswork because the only people that have the needed data are not very talkative.
Quotehttp://www.miamiherald.com/2010/05/30/1656217_p2/gulf-oil-spill-this-disaster-just.html#ixzz0pTFMrrbS
Quote from: Cardinal on June 18, 2010, 06:22:48 PM
:sigh: I have read some reports that say the nuke could create an active volcano because of what's below this strata is molten. Also, this oil is not fossil fuel (only). They now think the books need to be rewritten because the oil is being made by the earth's core somehow. I didn't understand that part, but it was sobering. I think we are living in the worst man-made catastrophe the world has ever seen and I think it's going to get a lot worse, before it's over, if it ever is. Blessings....
Oil is not fossil fuel at all. That's a lie. Just like Global Warming is a lie and Peak oil is a lie. Just like the fact that we need oil at all is a lie.
Satan...who deceives the whole worldOilmen have known for a long time that abandoned oil wells replenish themselves. They are the shallow repositors of the huge trenches of oil that exist deep below the earth's surface.
But, if there is an endless supply of oil, there goes the supply/demand equation, there goes one more way to control the world.
Instead, Obama wants to make sure we are shivering in our houses with the lights out because his is an economy of scarcity [except for a few].
If we [knew we] had unlimited energy, there's no telling what would happen.
2 John 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
QuoteDr. Robert Bea, Director of UC Berkeley's Catastrophic Risk Management Center, reported to AP that leaked BP documents reveal that dislodged methane hydrate, which had contaminated recently poured cement, was the culprit in the Gulf disaster.
QuoteABC reported last week that natural gas flowing from the broken well is slowing the gush of oil, a sign to them that the spill crisis might be abating. But as the gas moves, it is only time before some if it evaporates into the air as methane or the carbon dioxide that methane readily oxidizes into.
QuoteClimatologist Dr. Drew Shindell, of the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies, has recently demonstrated through computer modeling that methane when mixed with air is, molecule for molecule, the most powerful greenhouse house gas, 26 times more potent than CO2.
Is this why Obama was dancing with wild abandon and huge smiles in the Hey Jude video while the greatest catastrophe in written history unfolded on his doorstep? Oh, imagine it, all the people dead, all the animals dead, all the money made trading carbon credits, that Energy bill will pass for sure now and they will be catapulted back to the stone age. Let them eat oil!
Someone please tell me. Why won't he clean up the Gulf?
QuoteThat solutions to Earth's energy and environmental crises lie in sun, wind, and tide should be as clear as the waters of the Gulf of Mexico once were."
Only to someone who doesn't understand that those technologies are prohibitively expensive because they are 85 percent ineffective.
How about giving us the technology you guys are using to propel the UFO's that so many have seen buzzing about the skies?
I think the world is ready.
Quote from: Molly on June 18, 2010, 06:56:57 PMOilmen have known for a long time that abandoned oil wells replenish themselves.
True but for other reasons. Dig a well in your garden. Start pumping out the water until it's dry. Wait a few days and the well is filled again. Not newly created water but water that came from the surounding area. That's how oilmen thought refilling the oil fields works.
QuoteBut, if there is an endless supply of oil, there goes the supply/demand equation, there goes one more way to control the world.
Carbon-tax. Other tax (66% tax on gas here)
QuoteIf we [knew we] had unlimited energy, there's no telling what would happen.
Nothing. Nobody cared about the supplies. Only price influences energy consumption.
QuoteOnly price influences energy consumption.
Price of oil is based on the perception of the supply versus the demand. Which is why we will see 6 dollar a gallon at the fuel pump before the end of the year unless a miracle happens.
It's a given that demand is increasing. We might stop drilling for oil with superdeep wells, but China and Russia won't.
QuoteCarbon-tax. Other tax (66% tax on gas here)
What do you expect? You live in a [soft] Communist country. :laughing7:
Quote from: Molly on June 18, 2010, 07:32:18 PM
QuoteOnly price influences energy consumption.
Price of oil is based on the perception of the supply versus the demand. Which is why we will see 6 dollar a gallon at the fuel pump before the end of the year unless a miracle happens.
Supply and demand certainly exists but partly a myth. There can be an agreement on a minimum price. All kind of trading bumps up the price. All kind of costs. Etc
QuoteIt's a given that demand is increasing. We might stop drilling for oil with superdeep wells
Drilling continues. You can bet on that.
QuoteQuoteCarbon-tax. Other tax (66% tax on gas here)
QuoteWhat do you expect? You live in a [soft] Communist country. :laughing7:
Ha we are getting on that road again :winkgrin: Fine if you admit the USA is a soft communist country too I'll prove it to you (by your own reasoning).
Spill it Molly :laughing7:
QuoteSupply and demand certainly exists but partly a myth
It's completely a myth. It is what makes Satan's economy work.
God's economy is one of abundance, as we are witnessing in the Gulf right now.
Ooops, the cat's out of the bag for anyone who would have eyes to see.
QuoteHa we are getting on that road again Fine if you admit the USA is a soft communist country too I'll prove it to you (by your own reasoning).
Spill it Molly
Until recently, we have been a soft fascist country. Right now the communists and fascists are fighting over us. Hopefully, they will eat their young and leave us to live in freedom and peace.
14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. --Rev 12
Quote from: Molly on June 18, 2010, 07:57:04 PMGod's economy is one of abundance, as we are witnessing in the Gulf right now.
Devine Brits :laughing7: (Taffy is gonna hate it if BP goes bankrupt)
If oil wasn't brownish/black...
KJVRev 8:9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died;
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 18, 2010, 08:06:53 PM
Quote from: Molly on June 18, 2010, 07:57:04 PMGod's economy is one of abundance, as we are witnessing in the Gulf right now.
Devine Brits :laughing7: (Taffy is gonna hate it if BP goes bankrupt)
If oil wasn't brownish/black... KJVRev 8:9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died;
Yes, but it has a good ending.
If only it wouldn't take so much to wake people up... :sigh:
Perhaps, it's a portent of good things, after all, oil is used to anoint.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on June 18, 2010, 08:15:54 PMPerhaps, it's a portent of good things, after all, oil is used to anoint.
There are words from HS and from satan.
There is anoiting oil and crude/annoying oil.
I fear that's closer to the truth.
Quote from: Molly on June 18, 2010, 08:10:23 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 18, 2010, 08:06:53 PM
Quote from: Molly on June 18, 2010, 07:57:04 PMGod's economy is one of abundance, as we are witnessing in the Gulf right now.
Devine Brits :laughing7: (Taffy is gonna hate it if BP goes bankrupt)
If oil wasn't brownish/black... KJVRev 8:9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died;
Yes, but it has a good ending.
Yes if you like sardines in oil. Not if you are a sardine :laughing7:
I don't see any bright side on the oil spil. Only lots of trouble and even more trouble.
QuoteI don't see any bright side on the oil spil. Only lots of trouble and even more trouble.
I think we need to look at this the way a homicide detective looks at a crime scene. Here we sit knowing nothing about the oil business and yet, look at the information that is readily available to us. Is this being handled the way you would handle it, knowing what you know? No. I'm sure it isn't. Everyone is being forced to watch this unfold while nothing is being done. Surely the WH knows even more than we do, and they are dancing and looking smug. Why? What is there to look smug about?
Meanwhile, BP is being demonized right into the ground, but they are handcuffed to that rig and being given no help. The entire industry would help if they were allowed. The Army core of Engineers would help. Foreign countries would help. But the WH says no--BP will remain handcuffed alone to the rig until they are as far underwater as the rig itself. And, meanwhile, the Gulf fills up with crude.
So, what do you think is going on here, Watson? It's kind of reminiscent of 911 when we waited and waited for the Air Force which never showed up.
:cloud9: I think they're hellbent on having their one world order and will exploit anything to get us one step closer to that. Blessings...
Dirty political trick. Greed. Power. Arrogance. I can believe all that.
But perhaps they are really dealing with things on the edge of technology. Or over the edge.
Nuke the hole. Might work. But it just as well could turn a 7 inch hole into a 7feet hole.
:sigh:
:cloud9: Or create a volcano or a new continental divide, as some have suggested. :sigh:
Quote from: Cardinal on June 19, 2010, 08:11:17 AM
:cloud9: Or create a volcano or a new continental divide, as some have suggested. :sigh:
Do you have a link to that claim?
I can only imagine one way for that to happen. And right now, with my limited knowledge, that seems unrealistic.
http://green.autoblog.com/2010/06/16/bp-buys-into-kevin-costners-oil-spill-clean-up-plan-orders-32/
http://www.screenjunkies.com/movienews/kevin-costner-solves-bp-oil-spill
Earlier he tried to sell his machines but that was impossible because they are not certified.
To get them certified they have to be tested on a oil spill. But only cerified machines are allowed to be used on oil spills... :winkgrin:
QuoteTo get them certified they have to be tested on a oil spill. But only cerified machines are allowed to be used on oil spills...
Was that in one of the links? Or are you just postulating how it will go from history? Sort of like how the Coast Guard just grounded 16 barges off Plaquemines Parish because they didn't have enough life preservers?
Today Thad Allen said they are building new skimmers. Building skimmers? Costner's invention sounds good, but those have to be built, too. I'm so glad we have all the time in the world. :mshock:
Have I mentioned...
....supertankerssupertankerssupertankerssupertankerssupertanke?
Oil floats, dagnabbit! Unless you sink it with dispersants.
Quote from: Molly on June 19, 2010, 08:57:40 AM
QuoteTo get them certified they have to be tested on a oil spill. But only cerified machines are allowed to be used on oil spills...
Was that in one of the links? Or are you just postulating how it will go from history?
No. It was in an article in Dutch. Couldn't find a link in English stating the same.
Costner sccidebtly met a member of Congres in a cafeteria in Washington. He got invited to to a special Senate comitee this week.
QuoteSort of like how the Coast Guard just grounded 16 barges off Plaquemines Parish because they didn't have enough life preservers?
Some people are like robots following orders.
QuoteToday Thad Allen said they are building new skimmers. Building skimmers? Costner's invention sounds good, but those have to be built, too. I'm so glad we have all the time in the world. :mshock:
I assume/hope Costner at least has one working machine?
QuoteOil floats, dagnabbit! Unless you sink it with dispersants.
Nature itself is a dispersant too...
Even mixing crude with sand sinks it (http://www.iosc.org/papers/00358.pdf)
The heavier portions of crude oil coagulate into tar patties, a sticky oil and water mixture, and may even wash upon shore or sink to the bottom. The 28% that sinks to the bottom of the sea mixes with sediments, and can turn into a thick-tar –like mass that destroys the habitat of many bottom-dwelling organisms and valuable spawning site for fauna. (http://www.goodplanet.info/goodplanet/index.php/eng/Contenu/Points-de-vues/Degazages-illegaux-dans-les-mers-d-Europe/(theme)/2022)
The density of Class C oils may be near that of water and they often sink. (http://www.wetestit.com/Crude_101.htm)
Plus also consider things down there are a bit diffrent due to high pressure.
Call Congress. Fire Thad Allen and put General Honore in charge.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeTV021O9Ls
General Honore is the man who evacuated New Orleans after Katrina. He evacuated the city in 24 hours once he was brought in. He's a natural and trusted leader.
QuoteI assume/hope Costner at least has one working machine?
I think he only has a prototype.
QuoteNature itself is a dispersant too...
Even mixing crude with sand sinks it
We're talking worse case scenario 100 million gallons of oil leaked into the Gulf to date [probably more, actually]. And it's spewing out at the rate of 2 to 4 million gallons a day. We are on day 60. They are still trying to suck it up with a straw. Someone should hand Obama a straw on his next visit and tell him to go at it...
The cleaning up of teh surface in not going well. But at least there is technology for that.
But what about teh clouds near the sea floor? Mile long straw?
No matter who's to blame etc. I've not heard of a single solution to clean up the seafloor....
BP Aware Of Cracks In Oil Well Two Months Before Explosion (http://www.prisonplanet.com/bp-aware-of-cracks-in-oil-well-two-months-before-explosion.html)
Thursday, June 17, 2010
BP was aware of cracks appearing in the Macondo well as far back as February, right around the time Goldman Sachs and BP Chairman Tony Hayward were busy dumping their stocks in the company on the eve of the explosion that led to the oil spill, according to information uncovered by congressional investigators.
The Mining and Mineral Services agency released documents to Bloomberg indicating that BP "was trying to seal cracks in the well about 40 miles (64 kilometers) off the Louisiana coast," according to the report.
The fissures, which BP began to attempt to fix on February 13, could have played a role in the disaster, though this is a question still being explored by investigators. Improperly sealed, the cracks cause explosive natural gas to rush up the shaft.
"The company attempted a "cement squeeze," which involves pumping cement to seal the fissures, according to a well activity report. Over the following week the company made repeated attempts to plug cracks that were draining expensive drilling fluid, known as "mud," into the surrounding rocks," states the report.
As we previously highlighted, eyewitness evidence indicates that Deepwater Horizon managers knew that the BP oil rig had major problems before its explosion on April 20. A crew member who rescued burning workers on the rig told Houston attorney Tony Buzbee of a conversation between Deepwater Horizon installation manager Jimmy Harrell and someone in Houston. According to the witness, Harrell was screaming, "Are you f*****g happy? Are you f*****g happy? The rig's on fire! I told you this was gonna happen."
The fact that BP managers were aware of problems with the rig and were seemingly unconcerned about fixing them only lends more weight to the already startling indications of some having foreknowledge of the disaster.
As we highlighted last week, on page 37 of British Petroleum's own investigative report into the oil spill, it is stated that the Hydraulic Control System on equipment designed to automatically seal the well in an emergency was modified without BP's knowledge sometime before the explosion.
Highly suspicious stock and share trades by people connected to BP before the explosion indicate some extent of foreknowledge.
Goldman Sachs dumped 44% of its shares in BP Oil during the first quarter of 2010 – shares that subsequently lost 36 percent of their value, equating to $96 million. The current chairman of Goldman Sachs is Bilderberg luminary Peter Sutherland, who is also the former chairman of British Petroleum.
Furthermore, as reported by the London Telegraph on June 5th, Tony Hayward, the current BP CEO sold £1.4 million of his shares in the fuel giant weeks before the spill.
On April 12th, just over one week before the Deepwater Horizon rig exploded, Halliburton, the world's second largest oilfield services corporation, surprised some by acquiring Boots & Coots, a relatively small but vastly experienced oil well control company.
Halliburton is named in the majority of some two dozen lawsuits filed since the explosion by Gulf Coast people and businesses who claim that the company is to blame for the disaster.
Halliburton was forced to admit in testimony at a congressional hearing last month that it carried out a cementing operation 20 hours before the Gulf of Mexico rig went up in flames. The lawsuits claim that four Halliburton workers stationed on the rig improperly capped the well.
GORDON DUFF: THE CARDBOARD LOTHARIOS
June 17, 2010
ANALYZING STAGED WORLD CONFLICT
By Gordon Duff STAFF WRITER/Senior Editor
"If those papers have to be produced over the nukes that later got lost in Oman, and on the watch of Dr. David Kelly, then it could be disastrous for David Cameron. This, particularly as one of the three atomic bombs lost back at the time of the first Gulf War, was exploded by North Korea on 25th May 2009."
In 2006, North Korea exploded a plutonium based nuclear weapon, an unsuccessul test of a "found" nuke in poor repair, or something poorly designed. America had predicted that they were at least five years from this capability, we always hear the same story, everyone is five years from having nuclear weapons. On May 25th, 2009, North Korea exploded its second bomb, its first clearly identifiable nuclear weapon, a "Hiroshima sized" bomb, tiny by US standards. What we didn't say is that the signature of this bomb had been seen before.
An identical nuclear weapon, manufactured at the same facility, same design, same impurities, had been exploded in September 22, 1979, in a test in the Indian Ocean conducted jointly by Israel and South Africa. When UN inspectors were asked to come to South Africa in 1990 to arrange to dismantle their nuclear weapons, ten bombs were admitted to having been built with one tested. Today we claim six existed, none were tested and three never existed. One of those three exploded in North Korea. The mystery is, how did it get there? Are American "broken arrow" nukes, recovered, sold and traded? What "special country" might do this?
The cover story was that Pakistan through nuclear scientist, Dr. A. Q. Khan, had supplied Korea with the required highly specialized centrifuges along with nuclear triggers and advanced missile technology. Investigations have shown, however, that the US had asked, or rather demanded, President Musharraf "convince" Khan to confess to this and a seemingly endless series of nuclear proliferation violations from South Africa to Libya to Germany. The deal was that Khan had to confess but would be immediately pardoned. We have another mystery, who was the US covering for and why? Who wanted it to seem like North Korea had a real nuclear program, who would profit by this? What could be more comical than "Cardboard Lothario" Kim Jung-il, war mongering mastermind terrorizing the world from one of the most isolated and poverty stricken nations on earth. I could carve a better "axis of evil" dictator out of a banana.
Who are the Cardboard Lotharios? They are world leaders and conflict driven icons who simply don't seem to fit. We knew where Hitler came from, we understood Napoleon, Mussolini, even George W. Bush. With a world bereft of "prime movers," no major ideological struggles, no national races for dwindling resources, only multi-national corporations carving away the world, today's chaos is purely manufactured and the cardboard cutout bad-boys aren't even good actors. Who invented Osama bin Laden, Bibi Netanyahu, Mullah Omar, Kim Jung-il, Hugo Chavez, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad? Do we add Hameed Karzai to the list? How to people like Libya's Muammar Gadaffi simply quit, get taken off the list and retire as though they had been to some sort of "terrorist mastermind rehab?" Remember Muqtada al-Sadr, the Iraqi cleric whose Mahdi army was the caused mayhem in Iraq? How can Gulbuddin Hekmatyar be number one on the world terror list and be asked by Americans to open negotiations with the Taliban at the same time? Anyone smelling a rat?
A hypothesis, several forces, conspiratorial in nature, hiding in plain sight are "out there." The players, oil, arms, banking, are the real powers in the world, easily "super-governments," well beyond any Illuminati-Freemason or Bilderberg conspiracy. Their game, "they" meaning the real powers that control the governments, is managing continual regional conflicts where none, according to respected studies of the dynamics of global conflict and the real clash of "civilizations," should exist. We live in a world where our wars, our news, the stories and myths we accept as gospel are little more than part of a play. Shakespeare had said, "All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players" (William Shakespeare, As You Like it, Act II, Scene VII) How can we get to this point? Lets take a look at today's hotspot, Iran.
READ more at...
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/06/17/gordon-duff-the-cardboard-lotharios/
Then, is the basis of our hypothesis that some invisible criminal conspiracy, a genuine axis of evil, guides the world, a power above any nation, seemingly above the g-d's themselves? A hundred years ago, when a nation misbehaved, they had a reason, right or wrong, it was a reason. If they won the war, their reason was right. Today, we no longer ask for reasons. Why do we fight? We fight to be safe. Safe from whom? Safe from the people we fight. Any question beyond this limited scope is considered philosophical and elitist, even "liberal" or "peace-mongering."
The alternative is admitting that we are living in an Orwellian nightmare, one worse than any Orwell would have imagined. As Orwell himself would point out, only a rare individual would recognize the senselessness and absurdity. When we began believing, when we began to forget how to ask, "Why," we created a world whose moral soil was fertile for the depredations of the myth makers, the storytellers, those who exist off chaos, fear, starvation and in conditioning people who consider themselves righteous to accept the suffering and death of children without a thought, much less a tear.
We have arrived.
Why don't they just stick a giant plunger over this oil leak, I'm sure there's enough materials to be had
:sigh: @ Molly.......yes, the more I read, the more convinced I am that the puppet figureheads we see, are just a smokescreen to keep us focused on a false image, just like a magician's slight of hand trick. Blessings...
Quote from: thinktank on June 19, 2010, 10:14:09 PMWhy don't they just stick a giant plunger over this oil leak, I'm sure there's enough materials to be had
It's most likely that the drilling pipe is broken way below the sea floor. Meaning that at unknow depth oil is gushing out and eroding the proximity of the pipe. Additionally there is an unconfirmed leak in the sea floor 5 miles from the rig. Possibly/likely just the oil from the broken pipe that has taken an alternative rote. This means that anything reducing the flow will increase errosion speed. Leaving the well open is obviously no option but at best slows erosion down. IIRC a drill pip is 7 inch. An "eroded pipe" will grow and grow and grow. So capping will increase the oilspill.
The only way to stop the spill is to cement down the underground leak and the eroded holes. But the presurre for that is way to high. So that's why right now relief wells are being drilled. They are ready in August. Until then the spill will increase because of the erossion. With that lower pressure on broken pipe it can be hopfully plugged. The biggest fear right now is that erosion goes rampage and cuts a large uncontrole spill/well in the seafloor before the relief wells are finished. That would change the oil spill from a leaky tap to a wide open 24+ million liter/day
:sigh: Received this in an email today.....@ Molly....click on Haliburton link....it will make your stomach turn.
http://www.examiner.com/x-2912-Seattle-Exopolitics-Examiner%7Ey2010m6d13-Evidence-BP-oil-spill-is-disaster-capitalism-by-criminal-elite-to-depopulate-and-stop-ET-disclosure
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 19, 2010, 11:37:21 PM
Quote from: thinktank on June 19, 2010, 10:14:09 PMWhy don't they just stick a giant plunger over this oil leak, I'm sure there's enough materials to be had
It's most likely that the drilling pipe is broken way below the sea floor. Meaning that at unknow depth oil is gushing out and eroding the proximity of the pipe. Additionally there is an unconfirmed leak in the sea floor 5 miles from the rig. Possibly/likely just the oil from the broken pipe that has taken an alternative rote. This means that anything reducing the flow will increase errosion speed. Leaving the well open is obviously no option but at best slows erosion down. IIRC a drill pip is 7 inch. An "eroded pipe" will grow and grow and grow. So capping will increase the oilspill.
The only way to stop the spill is to cement down the underground leak and the eroded holes. But the presurre for that is way to high. So that's why right now relief wells are being drilled. They are ready in August. Until then the spill will increase because of the erossion. With that lower pressure on broken pipe it can be hopfully plugged. The biggest fear right now is that erosion goes rampage and cuts a large uncontrole spill/well in the seafloor before the relief wells are finished. That would change the oil spill from a leaky tap to a wide open 24+ million liter/day
thanks for the info...
why don't they try and syphon some of the oil being leaked or at least make it a free for all, 'everyone get your buckets out' That's what they would do in the 30's, everyone working together as a unit. Thats one thing I miss about the old days, is when people often united to avert a crisis, but nowadays, there are so many regulations, people are to afraid to join in.
I hate all that oil being wasted, that oil has taken years to form and now it is gushing out and being part of the sea. :thumbdown:
Quote from: thinktank on June 19, 2010, 11:58:28 PMwhy don't they try and syphon some of the oil being leaked
I believe they tried that with operation top kill.
Quoteor at least make it a free for all,
Blasphemy! :laughing7:
Quote from: Cardinal on June 19, 2010, 11:41:31 PM@ Molly....click on Haliburton link....it will make your stomach turn.
I secretly clicked on the link too :winkgrin:
Is it the link about the FEMA camps? There's quite some info on that those camps. (Including millions of plastic coffins)
Even weirder is the lnk to a secret base on Mars...
:cloud9: Yes....I don't how credible this guy is, never heard of him, but it is thought provoking if true. I know from personal experience they have made it deliberately difficult to find out who owns what subsidiaries. Blessings...
Why don't the set it on fire!! LOF lol!!
CHB
Quote from: CHB on June 20, 2010, 02:36:16 AM
Why don't the set it on fire!! LOF lol!!
CHB
Actually, they are. BP is collecting it into a large vessel and burning it at the wellhead. Other ships are collecting it out to sea and burning it right on the water--that's those boats you see trailing the boom. When they get enough oil in one place, they throw an incendiary into the water and set the oil on fire.
Unfortunately, it's still being done on too small a scale to protect the coast.
Now if the Coast Guard had just let the original rig burn in the first place instead of sinking it with water, we might not be in this predicament.
Why not sell it on the market, im sure there's demand for sea oil!
Quote from: thinktank on June 20, 2010, 03:06:21 AM
Why not sell it on the market, im sure there's demand for sea oil!
Funny you should say that. :winkgrin:
They could do that if they used
SUPERTANKERS with suck and salvage techniques. But that would require the President suspending the Jones Act and allowing foreign ships into the Gulf to do it--something which he doesn't seem to have thought of in 60 days.
QuoteQuote from: Molly on June 20, 2010, 03:18:10 AM
Quote from: thinktank on June 20, 2010, 03:06:21 AM
Why not sell it on the market, im sure there's demand for sea oil!
Funny you should say that. :winkgrin:
They could do that if they used SUPERTANKERS with suck and salvage techniques.
I doubt that. The oil will be not of the usual crude quality. It requires an extra refinary to get out the pollution like water. Those refinaries have to be build. That takes time and money. My guess is BP won't get a great price for their crude (even if prime quality), because everyone know their situation and takes advantage of it. Then it might actually cost BP to sell instead of burn oil.
Quite often supertankers are full and just waiting on the ocean until they get a fair price.
QuoteBut that would require the President suspending the Jones Act and allowing foreign ships into the Gulf to do it--something which he doesn't seem to have thought of in 60 days.
Damn foreigners. They might steal the oil :thumbdown:
US CLOSES ENTIRE COUNTY IN ARIZONA TO US CITIZENS -- US GIVES LAND BACK TO MEXICO?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzLRxj3XViI&feature=related
You couldn't make this stuff up. Is the Obama administration complicit in a silent invasion of the United States from foreign armies of illegal aliens?
(May 14) -- Even as proposals pour in for cleaning up the Gulf of Mexico oil spill, one veteran of a massive (and secret) crude spill in the Persian Gulf says he has a tried-and-true solution.
Now if only the people who could make it happen would return his calls.
"No one's listening," says Nick Pozzi, who was an engineer with Saudi Aramco in the Middle East when he says an accident there in 1993 generated a spill far larger than anything the United States has ever seen.
According to Pozzi, that mishap, kept under wraps for close to two decades and first reported by Esquire, dumped nearly 800 million gallons of oil into the Persian Gulf, which would make it more than 70 times the size of the Exxon Valdez spill.
But remarkably, by employing a fleet of empty supertankers to suck crude off the water's surface, Pozzi's team was not only able to clean up the spill, but also salvage 85 percent of the oil, he says.
"We took [the oil] out of the water so it would save the environment off the Arabian Gulf, and then we put it into tanks until we could figure out how to clean it," he told AOL News.
While BP, the oil giant at the center of the recent accident, works to stanch the leak from the sunken Deepwater Horizon rig, Pozzi insists the company should be following his lead.
AOL News could not independently verify Pozzi's account, but one former Aramco employee did acknowledge that there was a large spill in the region in the early '90s, and that Aramco had used tankers to clean up earlier oil slicks.
Pozzi, now retired, spent 17 years of his career in Saudi Arabia, part of it as a manager in Aramco's technical support and maintenance division.
Shortly after the April 22 sinking of the Deepwater Horizon, he and a friend, Houston attorney Jon King (with whom Pozzi recently launched a business called Wow Environmental Solutions), traveled to Houma, La., headquarters for BP's response center, to offer up the lessons he'd learned working in the Persian Gulf.
Ever since, he says, the pair's been stonewalled.
When he called the manager at BP in charge of the cleanup effort, Pozzi says he was told "don't bother me."
"He said, 'Follow procedures,' " Pozzi recalls. "He said, 'I'm taking names and I'm going to sue you.' "
Next, Pozzi and King phoned the president of BP and left a message with his secretary. An hour later, though, they received a call from "from a young lady in BP headquarters" who asked how she might assist them. They told her about their plan -- but have received no further contact.
Then, early this week, the duo say they spoke with Capt. Ed Stanton, the Coast Guard commander overseeing a length of the affected coastline. Stanton asked for a written proposal. That's the last Pozzi and King heard from him.
"It sounds so simple that they turn around and say, 'That was years ago. We've got modern technology now,' " Pozzi says. "But their modern technology isn't working too well."
Last week BP lowered a concrete-and-steel containment dome into the gulf in a highly chronicled effort to cap the underwater leak, only to have to quickly abort that effort.
Meantime, Saudia Arabia is sitting on the world's largest fleet of supertankers. Pozzi suggests that the U.S. government tell the Saudis: " 'Hey, we helped you out, can you help us out? Lend us some supertankers.' For a little payback for helping them out during the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait."
Moreover, he says, "there are many, many, many other countries that have oil tankers" that, for a price, could be deployed off Louisiana.
Stephen Reilly, CEO of Slickbar, a leading oil spill equipment and vessels manufacturer, says that while he's unfamiliar with supertankers being used in this way, Pozzi's proposal could well work.
"Any containment area or barge or tanker can be used for reception, and they certainly have the pumping system on board," Reilly says. "So in terms of using assets like that to pump stuff into tanks, by all means."
Pozzi speculates that the reluctance on the part of those he's contacted comes down to one word: cash. When oil tankers are taken out of service for a special project like this, they stop earning money for their owners.
BP, Pozzi says, should "step up to the plate" and offer to pay anyone willing to lend a tanker whatever they would lose in profits by dispatching one of their ships to the gulf region.
BP on Thursday said the cost of battling the spill has reached nearly $450 million.
Calls to BP and Stanton were not immediately returned. The BP press line voice mail message asks anyone offering "technical solutions" to dial another number to "most efficiently" address the suggestion.
During his years with Aramco, Pozzi says, he took a number of approaches to cleaning oil spills, from dumping flour into the sea and hauling out the resultant tar gobs to dropping hay into the slicks and burning it.
The 1993 Persian Gulf spill, Pozzi says, began when Aramco was loading a tanker and "the umbilical cord got away." Oil started spewing from the pumps. Panicked, a line of tankers waiting to be filled began hightailing away from the flammable spray. Massive ships maneuvered in tight quarters. It was chaos.
Because of a confidentiality agreement with Aramco, Pozzi won't describe exactly what happened next, except to say that "there were [then] other mishaps causing other oil to spill."
"The order of magnitude rose exponentially due to the panic level," he says.
The tankers worked for the next six months skimming oil off the water's surface and pumping it into tanks for cleaning. Cleanup efforts went on for several years after that. Still, that such an enormous slick could be successfully cleaned ought to point the way this time around, Pozzi says.
"My guys have worked on a lot of oil spills, and back in the late '80s and early '90s we figured out the best way to clean up oil through lessons learned," he says. "This is what we think they need to do. We know it works."
http://www.aolnews.com/nation/article/could-cleanup-fix-for-gulf-oil-spill-lie-in-secret-saudi-disaster/19476863
Quote from: Molly on June 20, 2010, 01:51:44 PM
US CLOSES ENTIRE COUNTY IN ARIZONA TO US CITIZENS -- US GIVES LAND BACK TO MEXICO?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzLRxj3XViI&feature=related
You couldn't make this stuff up. Is the Obama administration complicit in a silent invasion of the United States from foreign armies of illegal aliens?
:sigh: It sure looks like it......unreal. We are being invaded by a foreign country and they are just letting it happen.
Other State Governors need to send their national guard to Arizona to help. I believe they can legally do this. The Governor controls the National Guard of his state. I saw them do it during Katrina.
I wonder why the Governor of Arizona isn't asking the other states for help instead of Obama. He has made it very clear that he has no intention of helping.
His [and Hilary's] response to Arizona's pleas for help is to send a spurious lawsuit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oy9aaIpQR8
Maybe it's in some way preparing for the amero.
Assuming we could connect the dots between drug cartels pouring over the Arizona border, illegal immigration, and the attack on the Gulf by British Petroleum and the administration in the WH, I think it may be time for Americans to get a crash course in Dope, Inc.
This is an old article and not the best, and one man's opinion of how it plays itself out, but it gives an idea of the scope of this problem.
Matthew 10:26
Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.
The international drug-traffic enters the history books with the rise of the Sufi mystics, Syrian Hashishins (the "Assassins") of Shaykh al-Jabal, in the time of the Assassins' Templar allies. It was spread throughout the Asian littoral by Arab slavetraders. It was taken over from the slave-traders, by the Venetian slave-traders of the Levant Company. When the Levant Company moved into England and the Netherlands, the Levant Company assumed the new name of the "East India Company" of England and the Netherlands. Adam Smith's employers, of the British East India Company, established world-monopoly in the opium-traffic during the eighteenth century, and Britain ran the international drug-traffic, until Yuri Andropov's Soviet KGB entered the traffic, and launched present-day international narco-terrorism against the West during the 1967-1969 interval.
What are, today, the leading financial families of New England and New York, bridge the transition from British to Soviet control of the international drug-traffic. The Perkins Syndicate of Salem, Massachusetts, were the American drug- trafficking partners of the British East India Company during the late eighteenth and the nineteenth centuries: establishing the drug-traffickers' fortunes which are the foundation of the wealth of the so-called "Eastern Liberal Establishment," the New York Council on Foreign Relations, of today. Not accidentally, these same families of Britain and the United States, typified by McGeorge Bundy's circles, are the leading accomplices of the Soviet dictatorship, both in their connections to the drug-money-laundering banking institutions, and in demanding that the United States appease Soviet strategic demands, today. It is no accident, therefore, that David Rockefeller, the founder of the pro-Soviet Trilateral Commission, entered into a partnership with the late, drug-trafficking Meyer Lansky, to turn the Mary Carter Paint Company, into the mob-linked Resorts International and Intertel. In both Britain and the United States, the "families" which built up their fortunes in the proceeds from the nineteenth-century opium traffic, are at the center of an organization known to insiders as the "Trust," the main channel of present-day Soviet KGB policy-shaping influence into policy-making circles of Western Europe and the Americas. It is no accident, that Boston-based U.S. Attorney William Weld, of the White Weld interests, interceded to cover up the money-laundering organization created under present White House Chief of Staff Donald T. Regan, among Merrill Lynch, Credit Suisse, and White Weld, prior to Regan's becoming U.S. Treasury Secretary. It is no accident that Donald Regan has become a leading ally of Secretary of State George Shultz, and of Shultz's Bohemian Grove crony, Henry Kissinger, in supporting operations strategically decisive for Moscow, and contrary to the most vital strategic interests of the United States.
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Drug_War/DOPE_INC_part1.html
Henry Kissinger describing Obama's "task". I saw this interview take place in real time by CNBC on the floor of the NY stock exchange. I could not believe my ears. This was during the market crash of 2008-2009. Notice the DOW ticker.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aROay5kufxc
The most famous 'conspiracy theorist' trying to warn the American people, approximately 6 months before he was murdered.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnkdfFAqsHA
Ephesians 5:14
Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
I often wonder where these conspiracy theorists get their info from.
I personally believe that a lot of it is nonsense, just to keep a certain group of people i.e truth seekers in fear and wearing them out, building up their profile of being unstoppable juggernauts capable of ruling the world, when they are simply just a circle of men, who can only influence on a small scale, even tiny scale.
God is sovereign and the real enemy is the devil and the devils power goes beyond these so called evil secret orgs.
:sigh: @ Molly......I had no idea JFK had done that. I believe the Lord showed me the lie that got all of them to go along with the top level decision to kill him. I had read an 800+ page book on the FBI and Hoover, right before this.
It's one thing to get some top people on board with an assassination, but it was obvious there were people in the FBI, Secret Service, and Dallas police force that had to have complicity for all of it to happen as it did.
What came to me was that the top players in the conspiracy, used the Bay of Pigs fiasco and the standoff and ultimatim of the Kennedy's with Kruchev over the cuban missiles, in which they told Kruchev they would press the button in X amount of hours, if the missiles were not removed/inoperational.
The fear back then, especially, of the bomb, was in everyone's minds; bomb shelters were being built in backyards. They appealed to this already present fear, and portrayed Kennedy as unstable for even thinking of pressing the button. That's how they got normal people all the way down the chain, to commit the unthinkable. They thought they were preventing us from going to war with the USSR, and the bombs.
I knew about the Soviet drug trade to here; I had read somewhere that they had flooded the country with drugs to try to destroy us from within. I'd say they've done a good job; the Mexican President said this week, that the USA is the biggest drug addict. God help us. Blessings....
Quote from: thinktankGod is sovereign and the real enemy is the devil and the devils power goes beyond these so called evil secret orgs.
Have you ever thought how incredible we would be as a species without the constant trauma? They sit around planning their next traumatic event.
"trauma" injury: any physical damage to the body caused by violence or accident or fracture etc.
an emotional wound or shock often having long-lasting effects
They make sure to traumatize every generation with war, and/or with acts of violence and destruction. We are all wounded.
Google the effects of trauma--
This is one way satan controls the whole world--through [largely unnecessary] violence, destruction, fear, trauma.
.
Someday there will be an end to this, and the wicked will be removed--
1 Corinthians 14:33 (Amplified Bible)
33For He [Who is the source of their prophesying] is not a God of confusion and disorder but of peace and order. As [is the practice] in all the churches of the saints (God's people),
he leadeth me beside the still waters.
3He restoreth my soul:--Psa 23
Quote from: Cardinal on June 20, 2010, 09:02:33 PMThe fear back then, especially, of the bomb, was in everyone's minds; bomb shelters were being built in backyards. They appealed to this already present fear, and portrayed Kennedy as unstable for even thinking of pressing the button.
His got killed because he asssumed he was elected to serve the people...
More vids about the black gold/death...... (http://www.anarchiel.com/stortplaats/toon/het_bloed_van_de_aarde_de_bp_olielekkage_in_de_golf_van_mexico)
:BangHead:
ww, what they said at the end there, about this being the result of a fight between BP and Halliburton over who gets the rights to the 35,000 foot deep dinosaur migration path :mblush:---have you heard anything more about that anywhere? I didn't realize they could claim the whole trench from the Gulf to Venezuala by hitting it first. You think that's true?
I don't know those laws.
If oil is just in fields thinks are "easy" but with the new origin of oil theory basicly everything is connected...
About the fight... who would benefit from it? The field is owned 75% by BP and 25% by an American driller Anadarko Petroleum Corp.
AFAIK Halliburton can lay zero claim on anything. They are just contracted for cementing and stuff they have 0% ownership AFAIK. And if they do they also need to pay for the cleanup.
That said 20 biljon cleaning costs is peanuts for what they can get out of a field/trench that size.
Today I did read a Dutch article that the BOP was know to be damaged for months. They did replace the BOP instead of repairing it.
(sound good to me but it isn't somehow...) Costs for stopping drilling were 500k/day.
But faulty BOP seems not to be the problem of BP but Trans Ocean because simply put BP leased a working platform. So it's Trans Ocean's job to keep the rig in tip top shape.
Quote from: Molly on June 21, 2010, 06:25:46 AM
This is one way satan controls the whole world--through [largely unnecessary] violence, destruction, fear, trauma.
.
Satan controls the world. because the world must be full of morons. Of course considering someone was allowed to drill that deep without having to demonstrate they could actually deal with a problem that far below the oceans surface in the first place, (oh, its leaking, duuuuuuh, deeeeeeerrrrrrr what do we do now)
Yep, the world if full of morons. That explains it.
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on June 21, 2010, 05:54:29 PM
Quote from: Molly on June 21, 2010, 06:25:46 AM
This is one way satan controls the whole world--through [largely unnecessary] violence, destruction, fear, trauma.
.
Satan controls the world. because the world must be full of morons. Of course considering someone was allowed to drill that deep without having to demonstrate they could actually deal with a problem that far below the oceans surface in the first place, (oh, its leaking, duuuuuuh, deeeeeeerrrrrrr what do we do now)
Yep, the world if full of morons. That explains it.
Not only that but they keep making the same mistake over and over again. Have you seen this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPbUrB0moUA
Quote from: Cardinal on June 19, 2010, 08:11:17 AM:cloud9: Or create a volcano
Fire? Or just low quality video? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=en9CoYb0OHs&feature=player_embedded)
4th video (http://www.blijpartij.nl/page94.php)
Quote from: Molly on June 21, 2010, 03:58:11 PM
I didn't realize they could claim the whole trench from the Gulf to Venezuala by hitting it first. You think that's true?
(http://bcclist.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/oil-rig.jpg)
I don't know exactly where that trench is but mu guess is that at least one other rig is tapping from it.
Not to forget that a large part isn't US territory.
I really wonder where that trench is. It may even run under one of the islands or even main land.
3858 rigs.... To be honest I wouldn't even have guessed that number worldwide...
Connecting the dots...
SEPTEMBER 3, 2009
BP's Big Oil Find Cements Gulf's Revival
By RUSSELL GOLD
BP PLC announced a major new oil find in the Gulf of Mexico, the latest in a string of discoveries there that cements the offshore waters of the southern U.S. as one of the oil world's most promising exploration regions.
BP said its Tiber prospect, about 200 miles due south of Lake Charles, La., is a "giant." The field is estimated to contain three billion barrels of oil, although only a fraction of that may ever be extracted, spokesman Daren Beaudo said.
BP is already the biggest producer in the Gulf, pumping the oil and natural gas equivalent of 400,000 barrels there a day.
Just two decades ago, the Gulf of Mexico was called the "Dead Sea" by an industry that believed it had already offered up all its big discoveries. But now it is again front and center for petroleum explorers.
As new technologies have enabled exploration in the deepest recesses of the Gulf, nearly a dozen discoveries, including BP's Tiber, have been made beneath nearly two miles of water. Indeed, a BP spokesman said of Tiber: "We believe it's the deepest well ever drilled by the oil and gas industry."
The deep-water successes have spurred new enthusiasm that oil production in the Gulf of Mexico will rise. The U.S. Minerals Management Service, which oversees offshore oil leases, predicts 1.88 million barrels of oil a day will be produced in 2013, up from a storm-battered 1.14 million barrels a day last year.
In 2010, about 14% of crude oil production in the Lower 48 states will come from four deepwater Gulf oil fields, two of which, Atlantis and Thunder Horse, are operated by BP, the U.S. Energy Information Administration said.
The technological wizardry required to suck oil from the ancient rocks, known as the Gulf's lower tertiary, underscores how extraordinarily expensive it is to develop these prospects. To drill each well costs about $200 million, industry executives said. And a prospect often requires several wells, plus expensive pipelines and floating facilities.
Still, the Gulf of Mexico has emerged as a major area of interest for the Western oil companies that have been locked out of many of the world's largest untapped resources in the Middle East and Russia.
"If you are looking for another opportunity of that scale that is oil and that is open to [Western oil companies], the Santos Basin of Brazil is the only other one in the world," said Andrew Latham, a vice president of global exploration services for consultant Wood Mackenzie.
Other recent finds in Uganda, Kurdistan and off the coast of Ghana are estimated to be several billion barrels of oil, while the Gulf of Mexico and Brazil contain "tens of billions of barrels," he said.
Making the site even more attractive, oil companies have to pay the U.S. less in taxes, royalties, oil payments and other levies for the privilege of drilling than they would have to pay other governments.
This combination of financial and geologic advantages has drawn the attention of many of the world's largest oil companies. Even Exxon Mobil Corp., which hadn't embraced lower tertiary exploration with the same vigor as its competitors, is increasing its activity. Last year, the Texas behemoth leased 142 offshore exploration sites, compared with 12 in the two previous years.
But it has been Exxon's peers that have led the way into the Gulf's lower tertiary. Royal Dutch Shell PLC and Chevron Corp. are expected to begin producing oil from Perdido -- a floating cork-shaped platform as tall as the Eiffel Tower -- in the next few months. That is expected to be the first oil produced from a lower tertiary discovery.
"If anyone was under the impression that the Gulf of Mexico was done, they should change that impression," said Marvin Odum, Shell's head of exploration and production from Brazil to Canada.
In mid-2010, a second lower tertiary discovery -- Petroleo Brasileiro SA's Chinook and Cascade prospects -- is expected to begin producing. Rather than build a 165-mile pipeline from the discoveries to the Louisiana coast, Petrobras is building a floating production, storage and offloading facility, called an FPSO.
While FPSOs, which resemble giant oil tankers, have become commonplace elsewhere, including off Angola, it is the first one in the Gulf of Mexico.
Gustavo Amaral, a Petrobras senior vice president in charge of Gulf of Mexico operations, cautioned against premature enthusiasm about the Gulf oil discoveries. Much remains unknown about how well the oil will flow from the prospects, and it can't be determined until they begin pumping oil.
"The statistics tell us there is a lot of oil left in the Gulf of Mexico, but there are challenges. The key for the success in the ultradeep lower tertiary plays is how the wells will behave," Mr. Amarall said.
Despite the uncertainty, Tiber and other lower tertiary finds are substantial enough to excite investors. BP's American depositary shares rose 4.08% today on the news. If one-third of the estimated three billion barrels of oil can be successfully retrieved, an optimistic figure according to analysts, it could fetch $70 billion at market prices.
But that would slake the globe's thirst for crude for only two weeks, and oil markets were unimpressed by the news. A barrel of crude oil on the New York Mercantile Exchange settled at $68.05, unchanged from a day earlier.
-- Angel Gonzalez contributed to this article.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125189057895179241.html
:cloud9: Check this out......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw_l3IdhDwg
Obama, Clinton vow to defend gay rights, adding 'it's not who we are as Americans'
By Elise Labott, CNN Senior State Department Producer
June 23, 2010 1:48 a.m. EDT
Washington (CNN) -- President Obama and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton pledged to end violence and discrimination against gays and lesbians at home and abroad Tuesday, as the Obama administration moves to extend further benefits to gays working in the federal government.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/06/22/gays.lesbians/?hpt=T2
But THIS is who we are as Americans?
Federal Gov't Halts Sand Berm Dredging
Nungesser Pleads With President To Allow Work To Continue
POSTED: 5:37 pm CDT June 22, 2010
UPDATED: 8:45 am CDT June 23, 2010
NEW ORLEANS --
The federal government is shutting down the dredging that was being done to create protective sand berms in the Gulf of Mexico.
The berms are meant to protect the Louisiana coastline from oil. But the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Department has concerns about where the dredging is being done.
Plaquemines Parish President Billy Nungesser, who was one of the most vocal advocates of the dredging plan, has sent a letter to President Barack Obama, pleading for the work to continue.
Nungesser said the government has asked crews to move the dredging site two more miles farther off the coastline.
"Once again, our government resource agencies, which are intended to protect us, are now leaving us vulnerable to the destruction of our coastline and marshes by the impending oil," Nungesser wrote to Obama. "Furthermore, with the threat of hurricanes or tropical storms, we are being put at an increased risk for devastation to our area from the intrusion of oil.
Nungesser has asked for the dredging to continue for the next seven days, the amount of time it would take to move the dredging operations two miles and out resume work.
Work is scheduled to halt at midnight Wednesday.
The California dredge located off the Chandelier Islands has pumped more than 50,000 cubic yards of material daily to create a sand berm, according to Plaquemines Parish officials.
Nungesser's letter includes an emotional plea to the president.
"Please don't let them shut this dredge down," he wrote. "This requires your immediate attention!"
http://www.wdsu.com/news/23997498/detail.html
Toxic/Oil Rain Falls in Louisiana (http://www.infowars.com/toxic-rain-falls-in-louisiana/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)
Evaporation of oil (http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:swFy9lkJ00AJ:www.mms.gov/tarprojects/120/120BG.PDF+EVAPORATION+OF+OIL+SPILLS&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESisvvVzDH3jZ3hjDnJxlsbfypDdtwj4-yEWm_Xi6kdDQdU_E7b_XjDGWIqF73ZKJAMzc_G7qPB_3F_BDhJmrUixlZlH_x2kG-PINJQqOsA37CR0WahVoNhQE24nms1-sv4Rmu6x&sig=AHIEtbTNHJFFJud72IvJyjDye-e3Kaf-oQ)
If it's really true.... a lot of land will become toxic :sigh:
:sigh: It appears that's what they want. Our southern border is so compromised with the drug cartels/illegals pouring in, that I read yesterday (in addition to the Arizona county that put up signs telling AMERICANS to stay out because they/we have no control over it) a Sheriff in a Texas county told his people he could no longer protect them and advised them all to get their own weapons.
We are being destroyed from within, that's plain. I don't understand their reasoning though, if they have any left; in a coup the first ones to get shot are the leaders. :BangHead:
Quote from: Cardinal on June 23, 2010, 09:23:43 PM
:sigh: It appears that's what they want. Our southern border is so compromised with the drug cartels/illegals pouring in,
Wasteland won't stop that.
Quotethat I read yesterday (in addition to the Arizona county that put up signs telling AMERICANS to stay out because they/we have no control over it)
Have or want. The USA calls itself a superpower and can't even control a few farmers....
Quotea Sheriff in a Texas county told his people he could no longer protect them and advised them all to get their own weapons.
I hope he is so fair not to arrest anyone if they actually used their weapons...
Quotein a coup the first ones to get shot are the leaders.
Good to hear Obama is safe :icon_jokercolor:
:cloud9: Whoa...sorry about that, hit the wrong button on wrong screen, LOL.....anyway, as I was saying.....
:cloud9: Good one.....btw, it's not farmers they are unwilling to control, it's the heavily armed drug cartels who are smuggling drugs and weapons into the country, along with thousands of illegals in those counties.
Quote from: Cardinal on June 23, 2010, 09:45:10 PM:cloud9: Good one.....btw, it's not farmers they are unwilling to control, it's the heavily armed drug cartels
That's even easier. I'm sure the US army has some goodies for the situation...
:cloud9: Yes, but Obama won't release anymore National Guards to deal with the issue. And he doesn't want the ones he did release to shoot. If they are being shot AT, they have a right to defend themselves against drug dealers and criminals, IMO.....
It's ridiculous; the President is sworn to defend the constitution and us from outside invaders. So what do we do? Invite them in by sticking our head in the sand. You can't make this stuff up. Blessings...
Magnets to stop oil spill (http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/scitech/061610fighting-the-oil-spill-with-magnets)
PALM BAY, Fla. (WOFL FOX 35) - At the Advanced Magnet Lab in Palm Bay, Rainer Meinke researches highly sophisticated applications for magnets. One of those applications could be a, simple fix to the massive Gulf of Mexico oil spill and that has attracted the attention of the U.S. Coast Guard.
Meinke wants to fill the metal pipe, currently belching tens of thousands of gallons of crude into the ocean each day, with extremely powerful magnets. But these aren't the magnets holding pictures on your refrigerator. These magnets are made of neodymium boron. They are the same diameter as a silver dollar, and are about half an inch thick. Dr. Meinke says they are so strong, they could injure a person if not handled correctly.
"If you get your thumb between two of these magnets, the forces are really so large that it can crush your bone."
Meinke, the chief scientist of Advanced Magnet Lab, envisions dropping the permanent magnets into the tube, where they will naturally cling to the metal wall. As more are poured in, the magnets will create an unbreakable bond with each other.
"That is the beauty. By themselves, they will seek the right position," says Meinke, "and they will stick to the steel of the tube, and they will automatically, without doing anything, block that thing up."
Dr. Meinke knows a lot about magnets. He has a Ph. D. in Physics, and once managed the $12 billion supercollider project. As part of a white paper he submitted to the coast guard he calculated his magnets will not be washed out by the flowing oil.
"We have calculated what the flow rate and the flow velocity of the oil is. And we have calculated what the drag effect on the magnets is. And you can show that gravity still wins, even at these very large flow rates.
Meinke's idea is far from being implemented. The Coast Guard would need to fund experiments using his method on the oil leak.
Click above link for a little movie.
120 years of junk science: oil is not a fossil fuel, nor is it scarce.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ck01KhuQYmE
EU chief warns 'democracy could disappear' in Greece, Spain and Portugal
By Jason Groves
Last updated at 8:24 AM on 15th June 2010
EU begin emergency billion-pound bailout of Spain
Countries in debt may fall to dictators, EC chief warns
'Apocalyptic' vision as some states run out of money
Democracy could 'collapse' in Greece, Spain and Portugal unless urgent action is taken to tackle the debt crisis, the head of the European Commission has warned.
In an extraordinary briefing to trade union chiefs last week, Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso set out an 'apocalyptic' vision in which crisis-hit countries in southern Europe could fall victim to military coups or popular uprisings as interest rates soar and public services collapse because their governments run out of money.
The stark warning came as it emerged that EU chiefs have begun work on an emergency bailout package for Spain which is likely to run into hundreds of billions of pounds.
A £650 billion bailout for Greece has already been agreed.
John Monks, former head of the TUC, said he had been 'shocked' by the severity of the warning from Mr Barroso, who is a former prime minister of Portugal.
Mr Monks, now head of the European TUC, said: 'I had a discussion with Barroso last Friday about what can be done for Greece, Spain, Portugal and the rest and his message was blunt: "Look, if they do not carry out these austerity packages, these countries could virtually disappear in the way that we know them as democracies. They've got no choice, this is it."
'He's very, very worried. He shocked us with an apocalyptic vision of democracies in Europe collapsing because of the state of indebtedness.'
Greece, Spain and Portugal, which only became democracies in the 1970s, are all facing dire problems with their public finances. All three countries have a history of military coups.
Greece has been rocked by a series of national strikes and riots this year following the announcement of swingeing cuts to public spending designed to curb Britain's deficit.
Spain and Portugal have also announced austerity measures in recent weeks amid growing signs that the international markets are increasingly worried they could default on their debts.
Dictatorships: An end to democracy in Europe could see a return of figures ruling dictatorships. General Franco was dictator of Spain until 1975; Georgios Papadopoulos led a military junta until 1973; and Antonio de Oliveira Salazar ruled as Portugese president until 1968
Other EU countries seeing public protests over austerity plans include Hungary, Italy and Romania, where public sector pay is to be slashed by 25 per cent.
Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg, who visited Madrid last week, said the situation in Spain should serve as a warning to Britain of the perils of failing to tackle the deficit quickly.
He said the collapse of confidence in Spain had seen interest rates soar, adding: 'As the nation with the highest deficit in Europe in 2010, we simply cannot afford to let that happen to us too.'
Mr Barroso's warning lays bare the concern at the highest level in Brussels that the economic crisis could lead to the collapse of not only the beleaguered euro, but the EU itself, along with a string of fragile democracies.
But it risks infuriating governments in southern Europe which are already struggling to contain public anger as they drive through tax rises and spending cuts in a bid to avoid disaster.
Mr Monks yesterday warned that the new austerity measures themselves could take the continent 'back to the 1930s'.
In an interview with the Brussels-based magazine EU Observer he said: 'This is extremely dangerous.
'This is 1931, we're heading back to the 1930s, with the Great Depression and we ended up with militarist dictatorship.
'I'm not saying we're there yet, but it's potentially very serious, not just economically, but politically as well.'
Mr Monks said union barons across Europe were planning a co-ordinated 'day of action' against the cuts on 29 September, involving national strikes and protests.
David Cameron will travel to Brussels on Thursday for his first summit of EU leaders since the election.
Leaders are expected to thrash out a rescue package for Spain's teetering economy. Spain is expected to ask for an initial guarantee of at least £100 billion, although this figure could rise sharply if the crisis deepens.
News of the behind-the-scenes scramble in Brussels spells bad news for the British economy as many of our major banks have loaned Spain vast sums of money in recent years.
Germany's authoritative Frankfurter Allgemeine Newspaper reported that Spain is poised to ask for multi-billion pound credits.
Mr Barroso and Jean-Claude Trichet of the European Central Bank are united on the need for a rescue plan.
The looming bankruptcy of Spain, one of the foremost economies in Europe, poses far more of a threat to European unity and the euro project than Greece.
Greece contributes 2.5 percent of GDP to Europe, Spain nearly 12 percent.
Yesterday's report quoted German government sources saying: 'We will lead discussions this week in Brussels concerning the crisis. It has intensified to the point that the states do not want to wait until the EU summit on Thursday in Brussels."'
At the end of last month the credit rating agency Fitch downgraded Spain, triggering sharp falls on stock markets.
On Friday the administration in Madrid continued to insist no rescue package was necessary. But Greece said the same thing before it came close to disaster.
Yesterday the European Commission and the statistics authority Eurostat met to consider Spain's plight as many EU countries consider the austerity package proposed by the Madrid administration insufficient to deal with the country's problems.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1286480/EU-chief-warns-democracy-disappear-Greece-Spain-Portugal.html?ITO=1490#ixzz0s42LRsJM
Cutting costs... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVjXufO_zkU&feature=player_embedded#!)
I think this is how the 10 kings will arrise from the book of revelation. As people sins continue to increase, and are unable to restrain themselves, civil war and anarchy are breaking out. Unfortunately a democratic goverment isnt strong enough to hold the peace, so dictatorships arise or the resablishment of monarchial system in order to keep the peace. :icon_king: :icon_queen:
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 28, 2010, 04:44:01 PM
Cutting costs... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVjXufO_zkU&feature=player_embedded#!)
wow. "They" have met their match. God Bless her.
http://eponline.com/articles/2010/06/23/law-firm-sues-bp-for-use-of-chemical-dispersant.aspx
"According to the Alaska Community Action on Toxics it has had a negative effect on the health of those who were exposed. CNN reports that the average life expectancy of the workers who cleaned up the Exxon Valdez spill is 51 years and most of those workers are now deceased."
And they are spraying the same stuff right now...
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 28, 2010, 06:28:45 PM
http://eponline.com/articles/2010/06/23/law-firm-sues-bp-for-use-of-chemical-dispersant.aspx
"According to the Alaska Community Action on Toxics it has had a negative effect on the health of those who were exposed. CNN reports that the average life expectancy of the workers who cleaned up the Exxon Valdez spill is 51 years and most of those workers are now deceased."
And they are spraying the same stuff right now...
Thank God someone is doing something about this. This dispersant is banned in the UK according to all reports I've read. And, they can use it here? Who will protect us from the EPA?
By the way, why does Kindra need a 'security clearance' to find out what is going on in the clean up effort? a security clearance? Who are we trying to keep secure from what?
Quote from: Molly on June 28, 2010, 06:34:13 PMBy the way, why does Kindra need a 'security clearance' to find out what is going on in the clean up effort? a security clearance? Who are we trying to keep secure from what?
It's a restricted area....
Quote from: Molly on June 28, 2010, 06:25:48 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 28, 2010, 04:44:01 PM
Cutting costs... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVjXufO_zkU&feature=player_embedded#!)
wow. "They" have met their match. God Bless her.
Now lets hope she doesn't commit suicide by shooting herself twice in the head....
WARNING: Seems an unverified news item.
Obama Warns World Leaders 'Millions Could Die' From Gulf Oil Disaster
A sobering report circulating in the Kremlin today from President Medvedev's meeting with other World leaders at the G8 summit in Muskoka, Ontario states that President Obama has warned his counterparts that the Gulf of Mexico oil disaster "will most likely kill millions, perhaps tens of millions" of people during the coming year.
Fueling Obama's dire assessment of this "Gulf Apocalypse", this report says, are the oil and toxic rains now being reported to be falling throughout the US Gulf Coast region due to the fracturing of the Gulf of Mexico seafloor allowing untold millions of gallons of oil and millions of cubic feet of methane gas to escape unchecked into our World's seventh largest body of water, not to mention the millions of gallons of dangerous disbursements being used that is poisoning everything in its path.
So dangerous has the Gulf Coast environment become to human beings the United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) issued a warning that, in part, says: "People, including pregnant women, can be exposed to these chemicals by breathing them (air), by swallowing them (water, food), or by touching them (skin). If possible, everyone, including pregnant women, should avoid the oil and spill-affected areas."
With nearly 20 million American's living along the affected Gulf Coast region one wonders where they could all go and leaving many to speculate a massive evacuation is being planned by the US Government of the entire region.
This view, however, is not shared by a Louisiana woman named Kindra Arnesen who was allowed unprecedented access to the BP Operations Center overseeing this catastrophe and reported to the Gulf Emergency Summit this past week that along with millions of fish dying because of this disaster people are falling ill all over the region.
Even worse is Arnesen's incredibly reporting that even as this oil disaster grows BP is being allowed the US government to begin cutting costs in their cleanup and oil containment efforts.
Important to note about in this report is that Obama's warning that "millions could die" from this disaster has been further confirmed by the American engineer who helped lead the team to put out the Persian Gulf oil fires set by Saddam Hussein in the first Iraq war and had warned a full 12 months before the April sinking of the Deepwater Horizon that BP was drilling into a huge methane deposit that if released would be beyond catastrophic, it would be biblical in its scale of destruction.
Note: Along with the unprecedented danger facing the Americans due to this oil spill catastrophe it is important to remember the billions of dollars being made from it by some of the most powerful people and corporations in the West, and as we had reported on in our June 16th report titled "Obama To Earn Nearly $85 Million From Gulf Oil Disaster". (http://www.fireandreamitchell.com/2010/06/21/day-63-obama-to-earn-nearly-85-million-from-gulf-oil-disaster/)
Interesting to note too is that one of the World's top oil and gas industry experts Matthew Simmons is calling for the evacuation of the entire US Gulf Coast, and as we can read as quoted by him in an interview with the Washington Post News Service: "We're going to have to evacuate the Gulf States. Can you imagine evacuating 20 million people? . . . This story is 80 times worse than I thought."
Now the "80 times worse than I thought" comment by Simmons is one of the most vitally important points to understand in this unfolding historic disaster due to the findings of the United States National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) high-tech research ship Thomas Jefferson, and as we can read as reported by the Los Angeles Times News Service:
"The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration on Monday released new data from the agency's latest research trip through the Gulf of Mexico, showing concentrations of oil below the surface at more than 3,600 feet below the surface, about 7.5 nautical miles southwest of the BP's blown-out well.
The Thomas Jefferson research ship found evidence of depleted oxygen, a potential sign of microbes digesting oil, in the area. Acoustic and fluorometric instruments likewise indicated the presence of oil. Water samples taken on the trip have not been analyzed.
Since the leak began April 20, attention has been focused on surface oil washing up on environmentally fragile shoreline ecosystems. But "plumes" or "clouds" of oil hovering in the water column below the surface, where myriad marine life eat, breed and swim, has as much or more potential to cause ecological damage to the Gulf, scientists have warned."
Not being explained to the American people about NOAA's findings is that the live video feed of this spill being shown to them of this spill contains oil and methane gas being expelled at pressures estimated to be at 100,000 pounds per square inch (psi) and cannot in any way being associated with the massive underwater oil plumes found by the Thomas Jefferson nearly 8 kilometers away.
To where these massive underwater oil plumes are coming from, Simmons stated during an interview on the US television network MSNBC that the release point was "5 to 6 miles away" from where the Deepwater Horizon sunk.
In our June 10th report "Scientists Warn Gulf Of Mexico Sea Floor Fractured "Beyond Repair" we reported that Russian scientists (the only scientists to have actually viewed this disaster in their deep submersible submarines) had likewise confirmed Simmons dire assessment of this catastrophe; reports, mind you, that not only have we seen, but Simmons has undoubtedly seen too.
Most incredibly in all of these events is that Obama has issued what many experts are calling a "get out of jail free card" to BP in the setting up of a $20 Billion "sham" cleanup fund paid for by this British oil giant that allowed them to borrow from Goldman Sachs the entire amount and not affecting their bottom line for years, if not decades to come.
To the greatest consequence of this catastrophe upon the American people, an FSB appendix to this report warns that the US Soldiers currently deployed throughout their island territory of Puerto Rico are in fact being trained in how to "suppress and contain" large concentrations of people and being "recycled" to military bases throughout the State of Florida where they will soon be joined by an estimated 28,000 NATO allied troops where both will join up with an estimated 7,000 pre-positioned UN marked vehicles for purposes "still not known or clearly stated by the US".
To the greatest danger facing the American people it comes from the founder of the psychoanalytic school of psychiatry Sigmund Freud's nephew Edward Bernays, the father of the field of "public relations" and propaganda, who said that news was made "when reality is distilled down to the most simplified and dramatized form and it appeals to the instincts of the public mind."
Unfortunately, the "instincts" being instilled in these Americans "public mind" is going to kill them as there is NOTHING to be simplified about this catastrophe, and what they aren't being told by their so called mainstream media, or what they aren't willing to find out for themselves, is going to kill them. Just like all of those who cleaned up the1989 Exxon Valdez spill disaster, ALMOST ALL OF WHOM ARE NOW DEAD.
http://www.eutimes.net/2010/06/obama-warns-world-leaders-millions-could-die-from-gulf-oil-disaster/
http://beforeitsnews.com/story/87/256/Alert:_Obama_Warns_World_Leaders_Millions_Could_Die_From_Gulf_Oil_Disaster.html
:cloud9: This is horrendous.....wonder what's going to happen to her as a result of her candidness...... :sigh:
Can anyone confirm that Obama's election campaign was party funded by BP?
:sigh: I can't get your page about Obama earning $85 mil to come up.....
Quote from: Cardinal on June 28, 2010, 10:22:56 PM
:sigh: I can't get your page about Obama earning $85 mil to come up.....
Seems to be dead/overloaded.
Alternative links op Barack Petroleum:
http://stream.adamdodson.org/items/view/2802
http://beforeitsnews.com/story/79/527/Obama_To_Earn_Nearly_85_Million_From_Gulf_Oil_Disaster.html
Best to read the the above linked page because it links to many references:
In 1933 the great Depression Era United States President Franklin D. Roosevelt wrote to his good friend and advisor Colonel Edward Mandell House, "The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the Government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson..."
In 2010 the "financial element" controlling the United States government Roosevelt warned about has now, for all intents and purposes, taken over the Presidency too as evident by a new FSB report claiming that Obama stands to make nearly $85 million from the worst environmental catastrophe his Nation has ever seen.
As millions of gallons of oil continue gushing from the fractured beyond repair Gulf of Mexico seafloor following the April, 2010 explosion and collapse of BP's Deepwater Horizon drilling rig, millions (and soon to be billions) of dollars are at the same time flowing into the pockets of America's elite classes, mainly those controlling their government and banking.
Unfortunately for the American people though is that at the same time they can see the unfolding of this environmental catastrophe on their televisions, the looting of their National wealth is being hidden from them by a congressional-military-industrial complex they were warned about by their World War II hero President Dwight Eisenhower who in his January 17, 1961 farewell address said:
"A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction...
This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence — economic, political, even spiritual — is felt in every city, every statehouse, every office of the federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development.
Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society. In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex.
The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals so that security and liberty may prosper together."
The American people failed to listen to either Roosevelt's or Eisenhower's warnings, or even to their Founding Fathers, all of whom warned them that unless they remained vigilant in protecting their Nation they would lose it.
And according to this damning FSB report this is exactly what they have done.
Now to understand this report it must first be remembered who financed Obama's takeover of the Presidency, and in order of their contributions to his campaign they are: 1. University of California, 2. Goldman Sachs, 3. Harvard University, 4. Microsoft, 5. Google, 6. Citigroup, 7. JPMorgan Chase & Co., and 8. Time Warner.
The importance of these contributors lies in what and who they control, and they are: 1.) University of California and Harvard University have provided Obama with the "intellectual firepower" he needs to force upon the American people his "progressive agenda" remaking their once vital democracy into a totalitarian socialist state, 2. Goldman Sachs, Citigroup and JPMorgan Chase & Co. have given Obama unlimited resources through his allowing them to loot the US Treasury, 3.) Microsoft and Google have given him unlimited access to information on the American people unprecedented in modern times, and 4.) Time Warner who has given Obama near total control over all the information told the American people through their news outlets.
Upon Obama's taking office he staffed his administration with what is called a "Wall Street Cabinet", including former employees of Goldman Sachs who Rolling Stone Magazine in their devastating article "The Great Bubble Machine" on this banking behemoth warned, "From tech stocks to high gas prices, Goldman Sachs has engineered every major market manipulation since the Great Depression — and they're about to do it again."
And when Rolling Stone Magazine warned that Goldman Sachs was about "to do it again" they probably didn't even know how apocalyptic this banking giant's machinations towards the United States really are, and as evident by the BP disaster in the Gulf when just three weeks prior to the Deepwater Horizon explosion they sold nearly half their shares of BP stocks saving for their investors billions of dollars of potential losses.
Goldman Sachs wasn't alone either in its astute "foreknowledge" of the collapse of BP's stock value due to the Gulf disaster as BP's own chief executive, Tony Hayward, sold about one-third of his shares weeks before this catastrophe began unfolding too.
But according to this FSB report the largest seller of BP stock in the weeks before this disaster occurred was the American investment company known as Vanguard who through two of their financial arms (Vanguard Windsor II Investor and Vanguard Windsor Investor) unloaded over 1.5 million shares of BP stock saving their investors hundreds of millions of dollars, chief among them President Obama.
For though little known by the American people, their President Obama holds all of his wealth in just two Vanguard funds, Vanguard 500 Index Fund where he has 3 accounts and the Vanguard FTSE Social Index Fund where he holds another 3 accounts, all six of which the FSB estimates will earn Obama nearly $8.5 million a year and which over 10 years will equal the staggering sum of $85 million.
The FSB further estimates in this report that through Obama's 3 accounts in the Vanguard 500 Index Fund he stands to make another $100 million over the next 10 years as their largest stock holding is in the energy giant Exxon Mobil they believe will eventually acquire BP and all of their assets for what will be essentially a "rock bottom" price and which very predictably BP has hired Goldman Sachs to advise them on.
Important to note is that none of this wealth Obama, Goldman Sachs, and other American elites is acquiring would be possible without this disaster, all of whom, as the evidence shows, "somehow" knew what was going to happen before it actually did, including the US energy giant Halliburton who 2 weeks prior to this disaster just happened to purchase the World's largest oil disaster service company Boots & Coots.
Unfortunately for the American people watching as these elites destroy their country is that they are being told none of the truth, especially about Obama, who while becoming enormously wealthy off the hardship, misery and toil of his citizens has become the only US President in history to begin jailing every government whistleblower he can find, has won the right to jail anybody he wants without charges and hold them forever, and most incredibly has claimed the right to assassinate any American citizen he deems a threat.
The great American Founding Father, and the United States first President, George Washington once said, "Experience teaches us that it is much easier to prevent an enemy from posting themselves than it is to dislodge them after they have got possession." The American people to their great shame didn't heed these words, now they are paying for it.
Quote from: Cardinal on June 28, 2010, 10:13:08 PM
:cloud9: This is horrendous.....wonder what's going to happen to her as a result of her candidness...... :sigh:
Ever hear of David and Goliath? :happygrin:
Wasn't that the story about David who only had a chance because he knew Big Daddy? :laughing7:
Tony, what do you think of the accuracy of this report? 50/50, 90/10 likely, or some other?
:cloud9: Let's pray she is the "David" He has raised up to deal with some of this... :thumbsup:
Gerald Celente is apparently calling the oil from the spill "the blood of the earth". Does that "mean" anything to anybody?
It means something for ALL MANKIND :HeartThrob:
Thanks Dave - how do you interpret it? What do you think it's connected to? Specific insights/revelations?
Quote from: Cardinal on June 29, 2010, 01:56:37 AM
:cloud9: Let's pray she is the "David" He has raised up to deal with some of this... :thumbsup:
:thumbsup: And, pray for an army of Davids.
21And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD's.--Obadiah 1
nothing that I haven't said before :wink1:
OK, give me a second to check your 2,026 posts. :mrflo:
:HeartThrob:
I know you can't see it but I'm laughing too.
Page 16 of this thread, reply No. 379.
:bigGrin: Ah, I did see that post, didn't make the connection. :thumbsup:
You will know them by their fruits.
Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2010
No skimmers in sight as oil floods into Mississippi waters
GULFPORT, Miss. — A morning flight over the Mississippi Sound showed long, wide ribbons of orange-colored oil for as far as the eye could see and acres of both heavy and light sheen moving into the Sound between the barrier islands. What was missing was any sign of skimming operations from Horn Island to Pass Christian.
U.S. Rep. Gene Taylor got off the flight angry.
"It's criminal what's going on out there," Taylor said minutes later. "This doesn't have to happen."
A scientist onboard, Mike Carron with the Northern Gulf Institute, said with this scenario, there will be oil on the beaches of the mainland.
"There's oil in the Sound and there was no skimming," Carron said. "No coordinated effort."
Taylor said it was a good thing he didn't have a mic in the helicopter, because he might have said some things he didn't want his children to hear.
"They're paying all these boats to run around like headless chickens," Taylor said, as reporters gathered to hear his assessment of the Sound.
There has been hope among state officials the islands would stop a lot of the oil and skimmers could take care of the passes or breaks between the islands.
Horn Island was doing its part Saturday, observers pointed out. The wiggly lines of sheen were coming straight at it from the south, headed for the island's southern beaches. The island had boom in place to protect the inlets and sensitive wetlands along its northern shore, the side that faces the mainland.
Even the Pascagoula River was doing its part.
Carron pointed out the line where the river's fresh water met the Sound's salt water near Horn Island. All along the line was the orange oil caught between the two types of water and held at bay.
But where the failure came was in the human effort.
There were dozens of boats of all sizes running around, some leaving trails through the sheen. Two boats among a group near Ship Island were pulling boom in a line, but not using it to round up oil. That was at 10 a.m.
Taylor slipped a note to a fellow passenger.
It said: "I'm having a Katrina flashback. I haven't seen this much stupidity, wasted effort, money and wasted resources, since then."
Back on land in Gulfport, Taylor let loose.
"A lot of people are getting paid to say, 'Look! There's oil' and not doing anything about it," Taylor said. "There shouldn't be a drop of oil in the Sound. There are enough boats running around.
"Nobody's in charge," Taylor said. "Everybody's in charge, so no one's in charge.
"If the president can't find anyone who can do this job," he said, "let me do it."
Taylor and U.S. Sen. Roger Wicker, R-Miss., took the morning flight on a National Guard helicopter with representatives of the state DEQ and BP.
After the flight Wicker said he feels it's not too late for President Barack Obama to accept help from other countries that have offered the services of their large oil-skimming boats.
Wicker blamed bureaucracy and the president, but said, "Mississippi has been a champ from the beginning of this."
He also said he noticed BP has been slow to accept prevention plans from local governments.
Taylor was ready for action.
Katrina wasn't preventable, he said, but the disaster of oil reaching Mississippi beaches is preventable.
He had said earlier that if organized right, he believed a lot of small boats, working hard and working together, could contain the floating oil.
Instead, the vessels of opportunity seem to have no game plan.
There should be some light aircraft spotting for and guiding them, said Carron, who was also puzzled by the response. "I don't really understand it all."
Before he took the flight, Taylor said, he had submitted a detailed plan of action to BP and the Coast Guard commander. He was on the Coast on Saturday to see if any of it was being carried out — it addressed ways to solve the lack-of-communication issues between spotters and skimmers.
He was scheduled to go aboard a boat in the Sound to see the situation from that perspective as well.
Taylor was concerned Coast Guard Cmdr. Jason Merriweather, assigned to Mississippi, doesn't have the authority to act independently; that he reports to the Unified Command in Mobile; and that all his decision are filtered through that group.
Carron said he was just as concerned with whether there's submerged oil coming in with the orange floating bands.
And all the while the NOAA trajectories for where the oil is heading get progressively grim for Mississippi.
Saturday's briefing projected oil would be on the beaches of the barrier islands, the Chandeleurs, in Alabama and the Florida Panhandle. For Sunday the projection of beached oil showed thicker lines as the bulk of the oil body moved closer.
For Monday the projection was more of the same, except it included a red X at Bay St. Louis, meaning the forecast is oil will reach the mainland there.
Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/06/26/96608/no-skimmers-in-sight-as-oil-floods.html#storylink=omni_popular#ixzz0sD7Rd2Ds
BP turns down Shell cleanup vessel for Gulf of Mexico spill
by Ted Land
Friday, June 25, 2010
ANCHORAGE, Alaska -- Some people are disappointed that BP is passing up an important tool in its response to the Gulf of Mexico oil spill. Shell Oil's sophisticated cleanup vessel, the Nanuq, could be on its way to the gulf -- but instead it's docked in Seward, waiting for its next assignment.
Shell built the ship in 2007, and says it's one of the most advanced skimming vessels of its kind in the world.
"She's definitely the largest that we know of," said Shell Alaska's Susan Moore. "She's got 12,000 barrels of storage, which is above and beyond what most other oil spill response vessels around the world have."
With Shell's offshore drilling plans this year put on hold by the Obama administration, the Nanuq won't be needed in Alaska this year. But all it takes is a look at news headlines to find oil cleanup work.
"I saw the pictures of the wildlife in the gulf. This is terrible, and the company's going to put its full might behind providing every resource it can to stop it, clean it up and restore the gulf," said BP managing director Bob Dudley.
BP expressed interest in using the Nanuq to help clean up the Deepwater Horizon spill, and Shell says it was in the final stages of a deal which would have sent the ship south. But for some reason BP recently backed out, and Shell says it can confirm that BP no longer plans to use the ship.
"I can't tell you why BP decided to pass on the Nanuq," said Shell spokesperson Curtis Smith. "Of course it's our preference that it be working in the gulf, but it will remain available should BP reconsider."
"Me, personally, I lived in New Orleans for 15 years -- I know what the people are going through, and I absolutely would like to have the opportunity to see an asset this valuable deployed down there," Moore said.
For a company that says it needs every available resource, this is one tool BP apparently does not want.
If BP or the Coast Guard decide to use the ship, it will take 25 to 30 days to make it down to the gulf since it needs to go through the Panama Canal.
BP and the Deepwater Horizon Unified Command did not return repeated phone calls and e-mails seeking comment.
http://www.ktuu.com/Global/story.asp?S=12713682
Quote from: jabcat on June 29, 2010, 12:13:36 AM
Tony, what do you think of the accuracy of this report? 50/50, 90/10 likely, or some other?
The video of that lady? Very good chance it's true.
Obama saying millions will die? I'm not sure. I think it should be read with caution. Or perhaps be removed. It doesn't fit in the "all is fine" way of handling things. And because it's an internal US affair why report it on G20?
It's not on MSM. There may be a new blackout in the US on the oil spill, it's far less in the rest of the world.
OTOH... even if Obama didn't say such a thing things look bad. Exxon Valdez did happen. Those people did die. Same stuff is used (in larger quantities) right now. Cleaning people felt sick after a day of cleaning.
There was a evacuation rumor. :dontknow: :dontknow:
Maybe the thing that proves the quote isn't real is that Alex Jones only reports "G20 summit: leaders agree to halve deficits by 2013"
Jones certainly isn't a Obama fan-boy. He surely would have written something about it....
Quote from: jabcat on June 29, 2010, 02:50:54 AM
Gerald Celente is apparently calling the oil from the spill "the blood of the earth". Does that "mean" anything to anybody?
1/3 of the sea shall turn into blood?
Quote from: Molly on June 29, 2010, 06:56:05 AM
You will know them by their fruits.
Posted on Saturday, June 26, 2010
No skimmers in sight as oil floods into Mississippi waters
Skimmers cost money. And they are cutting back on the costs, remember?
Plus if BP gets bought by Exxon then the taxpayer will pay the cleanup.
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 29, 2010, 07:21:44 AM
Quote from: jabcat on June 29, 2010, 12:13:36 AM
Tony, what do you think of the accuracy of this report? 50/50, 90/10 likely, or some other?
Obama saying millions will die? I'm not sure.
Yeah, that one. I'm not sure either. It sound pretty wild, but then, we're not 20 years down the road yet, either. :dontknow:
Quote - "1/3 of the sea will turn to blood?"
OK, yes, that's a connection to the "oil is the earth's blood". Interesting that Celente would use that term, "earth's blood". I need to see the Revelation reference about the sea turning to blood, what's around it, what else is happening, what's the context.
IF that's (one of) the connection(s), then that would make at least
some things in Revelation futuristic/predictive,
and external, wouldn't it? Just sayin'....
Quote from: jabcat on June 29, 2010, 07:45:13 AM
Obama saying millions will die? I'm not sure.
Yeah, that one. I'm not sure either. It sound pretty wild, but then, we're not 20 years down the road yet, either. :dontknow:
[/quote]I would say don't expect it to happen the next month. But look at teh cleaning crew of the Exxon Valdez. They did die. Years after but still 25 years to early on average. Just like the US troops that return alive but get serious DU related problems. I really think the people that work on the cleaning will get health problems. But the other millions? I don't know. Depends a bit on the wind and concentration of the stuff.
QuoteQuote - "1/3 of the sea will turn to blood?"
OK, yes, that's a connection to the "oil is the earth's blood".
Read Mollies article. The reporter said the sea has an orange/red look. But that's not 1/3 of all seas.
QuoteInteresting that Celente would use that term, "earth's blood". I need to see the Revelation reference about the sea turning to blood, what's around it, what else is happening, what's the context. IF that's (one of) the connection(s), then that would make at least some things in Revelation futuristic/predictive, and external, wouldn't it? Just sayin'....
We can all make up connections after the fact. Personally I would say water is earth blood.
Then the mountain cast into the sea would be the drilling rig.
:sigh: Watching all this unfold is so unbelievable almost. I don't understand why BP is calling the shots that affect OUR country's natural resources in the first place.
Someone needs to tell them to take their toys and go home before they get hurt, and then call in the right resources and people from WHEREVER and get the job done to the extent they can right now. THEIR security forces telling ANY American what to do, is galling. If I was one of the residents in that area, I'd be hopping mad if they tried to order me off a beach or tell me to stay in my house.
Do we HAVE any real leadership in this country that hasn't been bought and paid for by the corporations? Sometimes it's hard not to go back into the flesh and stay there for awhile....
:soap: :help: :BangHead:
.
Quote from: Cardinal on June 29, 2010, 09:27:07 AM
Sometimes it's hard not to go back into the flesh and stay there for awhile....
:soap: :help: :BangHead:
.
Isn't that the truth? "Be angry and sin not.."? :ticked: But then bottom line, we gotta trust the Lord, don't we?
Peace, not of this world... :angelharp:
Quote from: Cardinal on June 29, 2010, 09:27:07 AM
:sigh: Watching all this unfold is so unbelievable almost. I don't understand why BP is calling the shots that affect OUR country's natural resources in the first place.
I don't know how things work exactly in the oil industry; but I really doubt all those rigs just are making profits without .gov making money from it.
QuoteSomeone needs to tell them to take their toys and go home before they get hurt,
What's home?
75% of the well is leased by BP. 25% by a US company. (the rig was under the flag of the Marshall Islands)
100% of the rig is US.
100% of Halliburton is US.
Plus of course there are certain contracts. It's not that BP started drilling there without anyone knowing about it.
Quoteand then call in the right resources and people from WHEREVER and get the job done to the extent they can right now. THEIR security forces telling ANY American what to do, is galling. If I was one of the residents in that area, I'd be hopping mad if they tried to order me off a beach or tell me to stay in my house.
They are just following orders from .gov.
'Do you for example think they also control the US coast guard.
QuoteDo we HAVE any real leadership in this country that hasn't been bought and paid for by the corporations?
Let answer that with a question. Do you think those who pay for election campaigns do so for charity?
Interpretation - the thing stinks to high heaven.
fas·cism (fash′iz′əm)
noun
a system of government characterized by rigid one-party dictatorship, forcible suppression of opposition,
private economic enterprise under centralized governmental control, belligerent nationalism, racism, and militarism, etc.
QuoteI don't understand why BP is calling the shots that affect OUR country's natural resources in the first place.
Ans. They aren't.
Look at this passage again. The wickedness was there all along, it just becomes 'revealed' at some point.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: --2 Thess 2
FIRST comes the spiritual; then the natural
Quote from: Molly on June 29, 2010, 11:54:28 AM
a system of government characterized by rigid one-party dictatorship, forcible suppression of opposition, private economic enterprise under centralized governmental control, belligerent nationalism, racism, and militarism, etc.
I'm not so sure .gov is controling Big Corp...
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 29, 2010, 04:17:08 PM
Quote from: Molly on June 29, 2010, 11:54:28 AM
a system of government characterized by rigid one-party dictatorship, forcible suppression of opposition, private economic enterprise under centralized governmental control, belligerent nationalism, racism, and militarism, etc.
I'm not so sure .gov is controling Big Corp...
well, the relationship is incestuous at best. But, if the same man is controlling Goldman, and BP, and the treasury, what would you call it?
Bottom line, they are not incompetent, they are not too busy playing golf, they simply do not want it cleaned up. End of story.
Quote from: Molly on June 29, 2010, 05:00:01 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on June 29, 2010, 04:17:08 PM
Quote from: Molly on June 29, 2010, 11:54:28 AM
a system of government characterized by rigid one-party dictatorship, forcible suppression of opposition, private economic enterprise under centralized governmental control, belligerent nationalism, racism, and militarism, etc.
I'm not so sure .gov is controling Big Corp...
well, the relationship is incestuous at best. But, if the same man is controlling Goldman, and BP, and the treasury, what would you call it?
Teamwork
QuoteBottom line, they are not incompetent, they are not too busy playing golf, they simply do not want it cleaned up. End of story.
Not end of story :winkgrin:
They handle thing$ compentently in Big Corp way$.
Incompetence is an excuse. They are beyond that :2c:
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:SCPMFeuCfQwTqM:http://www.canadafreepress.com/images/uploads/oil-handshake1.jpg)
http://www.logomyway.com/contestView.php?contestId=1746
From the Latin-American Herald Tribune :mblush:
U.S. Government to Loan Brazil's Petrobras $10 Billion
The U.S. government is preparing to provide up to $10 billion in loans to finance the development of massive hydrocarbon reserves off Brazil's coast thought to contain 80 billion barrels of high-quality crude, an amount that could lead to a six-fold increase in Brazil's current proven reserves and transform that nation into one of the world's 10 largest oil producers.
RIO DE JANEIRO – The U.S. government is prepared to provide up to $10 billion in loans to finance the development of massive hydrocarbon reserves off Brazil's coast, a Brazilian official said Wednesday.
President Barack Obama's national security adviser, Gen. James Jones, discussed the matter with officials this week during a visit to the South American country, Brazilian Planning Minister Paulo Bernardo da Silva told reporters.
He said the U.S. Export-Import Bank already has signed a letter of intent in that regard with Brazilian state oil company Petrobras.
The loan is equal in value to a similar credit line agreed to with the China Development Bank, also for exploiting Brazil's "pre-salt" area, so-named because the estimated 80 billion barrels of high-quality crude in that new oil frontier lie far beneath the ocean floor under layers of rock and an unstable salt formation.
Under the agreement with the Chinese state bank, finalized during Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva's visit to Beijing in May, Brazil can repay the loan facility with oil as opposed to cash.
According to the government's projections, the pre-salt reserves – located at a depth of up to seven kilometers (4.3 miles) below the ocean surface in an 800-kilometer by 200-kilometer area – could eventually lead to a nearly six-fold increase in Brazil's current proven reserves of 14 billion barrels and transform that nation into one of the world's 10 largest oil producers and a major crude exporter.
Petrobras plans to invest close to $29 billion through 2013 to develop the pre-salt deposits in which the company already holds concession rights.
Petrobras is projecting that some 1.3 million barrels per day can be extracted by 2013 from the pre-salt fields and 1.8 million bpd by 2020.
The Tupi field, which is believed to contain between 5 billion and 8 billion barrels of oil and was the first to be exploited in the pre-salt region, is considered to be the largest hydrocarbon discovery in the Americas in the past 30 years.
Other large oil and natural gas fields were later found nearby, also under a thick bed of salt.
But Brazil has been forced to seek external financing because the fields pose an enormous technical and financial challenge due to the depth and thickness of the salt and the drastic changes in temperature as the oil is brought to the surface.
Acknowledging that Petrobras alone is not capable of developing the massive pre-salt reserves, Brazil announced in May that it will invite international oil companies to bid for concessions in that region beginning next year.
The country had previously halted the sale of concessions after the massive finds were made.
Petrobras, an integrated energy company and the global leader in deepwater oil exploration and production, operates in 27 countries in the Americas, Africa, Asia and Europe.
Shares of Petrobras, Brazil's largest corporation, trade on the Sao Paulo, New York, Madrid and Buenos Aires stock exchanges, but the Brazilian government retains control through a golden share.
http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=340859&CategoryId=10718
Three guesses where all the closed rigs in the Gulf are going....
Quote from: Molly on June 29, 2010, 09:23:54 PMThree guesses where all the closed rigs in the Gulf are going....
Barry Soetoro's front lawn?
"The vice of capitalism is that it stands for the unequal sharing of blessings; whereas the virtue of socialism is that it stands for the equal sharing of misery."
:cloud9: I think government and big corporation have so entwined themselves there is little difference anymore, just the illusion remains. Got this in an email today and I think he makes a valid point about potential damage. Blessings...
http://www.naturalnews.com/029082_Gulf_Coast_oil_spill.html
"Now, BP is at least $20 billion in the hole in an effort to compensate some of the Gulf Coast businesses for the damage they've caused."
What does he mean by that? That BP is going to pay $20 billion to, say, the fishermen?
That's not my understanding of things.
BP must put $20 billion on a seperate bankaccount.
That bankaccount earns them some intrest. No taxes. But can't be invested either.
They have to pay damages. But how much? To who? If you want to get compensated just call the BP lawyer. I used the word "lawyer" so I assume I can end this post because it's all clear now....
:cloud9: Obama is supposed to be appointing someone to oversee this money, so our government is going to dole it out, basically. Which means, they draw interest on it and probably keep that interest. Which means it's in their best interests to keep that account as hefty as they can, for as long as they can. Which means..... :sigh:
Quote from: Cardinal on July 01, 2010, 08:53:16 AM
:cloud9: Obama is supposed to be appointing someone to oversee this money,
His Morgan-Stanley buddies? :LH:
wow...all our screaming about supertankers might be finally paying off. At last, one supertanker edges closer to the Gulf as it tries to overcome EPA and Coast Guard scrutiny. If anyone thought the EPA or the Environmentalists cared about the environment or people, this oil spill has been an eye opener. Power and control for their own ends, maybe, holding the Gulf hostage for their partisan energy bills maybe, but this one supertanker claims it can do in one day what Obama, the EPA, and the Coast Guard have done in 70 days--why has this taken so long and why not bring in more of these giant ships? Bring them in from all over the world!
Giant oil skimmer makes stop in Norfolk on way to Gulf oil cleanup
NORFOLK —
After making a brief stop in Norfolk for refueling, U.S. Coast Guard inspections and an all-out publicity blitz intended to drum up public support, a giant tanker billed as the world's largest oil skimming vessel set sail Friday for the Gulf of Mexico where it hopes to assist in the oil-cleanup effort.
The Taiwanese-owned, Liberian-flagged ship dubbed the "A Whale" stands 10 stories high, stretches 1,115 feet in length and has a nearly 200-foot beam. It displaces more water than an aircraft carrier.
Built in South Korea as a supertanker for transporting oil and iron ore, the six-month-old vessel was refitted in the wake of the BP oil spill with 12, 16-foot-long intake vents on the sides of its bow designed to skim oil off surface waters
The vessel's billionaire owner, Nobu Su, the CEO of Taiwanese shipping company TMT Group, said the ship would float across the Gulf "like a lawn mower cutting the grass," ingesting up to 500,000 barrels of oil-contaminated water a day.
But a number of hurdles stand in his way. TMT officials said the company does not yet have government approval to assist in the cleanup or a contract with BP to perform the work.
That's part of the reason the ship was tied to pier at the Virginia Port Authority's Norfolk International Terminals Friday morning. TMT and its public-relations agency invited scores of media, elected officials and maritime industry executives to an hour-long presentation about how the ship could provide an immediate boost to clean-up efforts in the Gulf.
TMT also paid to fly in Edward Overton, a professor emeritus of environmental sciences at Louisiana State University, to get a look at the massive skimmer.
Overton blasted BP and the federal government for a lack of effort and coordination in their dual oil-spill response and made a plea to the government to allow the A Whale to join the cleanup operation.
"We need this ship. We need this help," Overton said. "That oil is already contaminating our shoreline. We've got to get the ship out there and see if it works. There's only one way to find out: Get the damn thing in the gulf and we'll see."
TMT officials acknowledged that not even they're sure how well the new skimming method will work, noting that it appeared to perform well in limited testing last week.
"This concept has never been tried before," said Bob Grantham, a TMT project officer. "But we think we can do in maybe in a day and a half what these other crews have done in 66 days. We see the A Whale as adding another layer to the recovery effort."
Virginia Transportation Secretary Sean T. Connaughton said the McDonnell administration "still has great interest in offshore oil development in Virginia" and supports the A Whale's effort to assist in the cleanup.
To join the fight, the ship also might require separate waivers from the Coast Guard and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.
The A Whale — pronounced along the lines of "A Team" because there is a "B Whale" coming — is designed to work 20 to 50 miles offshore where smaller skimmers have trouble navigating. The ship would take in oily water and transfer it into specialized storage tanks on the flanks of the vessel. From there, the oil-fouled seawater would be pumped into internal tanks where the oil would separate naturally from the water.
After the separation process, the oil would be transferred to other tankers or shore-based facilities while the remaining water would be pumped back into the gulf.
Because the process wouldn't remove all traces of oil from the seawater, TMT will likely have to gain a special permit from the EPA, said Scott H. Segal of the Washington lobbying firm, Bracewell &Giuliani, which TMT has retained to help negotiate with federal regulators.
"The simple answer is, we don't know what the discharge will look like until we can take A Whale out there and test it," Segal said. TMT will work with regulators to determine an appropriate level of oil that can be contained in the ship's discharge.
TMT also is firm is working with the Coast Guard to gain approval to operate in the gulf, which may require a waiver from a 90-year-old maritime act that restricts foreign-flagged vessels from operating in U.S. waters, said Bob Grantham, a TMT project officer.
Connaughton, the former federal Maritime Administrator, said he doesn't believe the A Whale would require a waiver from the Jones Act, a federal law signed in 1920 that sought to protect U.S. maritime interests.
Coast Guard inspectors toured the ship for about four hours on Thursday to determine the ship's efficacy and whether it was fit to be deployed, said Capt. Matthew Sisson, commanding officer of the Coast Guard's Research and Development arm in New London, Conn.
"We take all offers of alternative technology very seriously," Sisson said. The ship, he said, is "an impressive engineering feat."
He would not offer a timetable for Coast Guard approval of the vessel, but said he will try to "turn around a report ... as soon as humanely possible."
Of course, even if the ship gains approval to operate in the gulf, its owners expect the company to be paid for its efforts.
"That's an open question," Segal said. "Obviously, (TMT) is a going concern and its people would need to be compensated for their time and effort."
http://blog.al.com/live/2010/06/giant_oil-sucking_vessel_heade.html
Quote from: Molly on July 01, 2010, 10:36:09 AMbut this one supertanker claims it can do in one day what Obama, the EPA, and the Coast Guard have done in 70 days
Little lesson in math Molly: 70x0=0 :winkgrin:
QuoteBecause the process wouldn't remove all traces of oil from the seawater, TMT will likely have to gain a special permit from the EPA, said Scott H. Segal of the Washington lobbying firm, Bracewell &Giuliani, which TMT has retained to help negotiate with federal regulators.
"The simple answer is, we don't know what the discharge will look like until we can take A Whale out there and test it," Segal said. TMT will work with regulators to determine an appropriate level of oil that can be contained in the ship's discharge.
ARGHHHhhhhh
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 01, 2010, 10:58:08 AM
Quote from: Molly on July 01, 2010, 10:36:09 AMbut this one supertanker claims it can do in one day what Obama, the EPA, and the Coast Guard have done in 70 days
Little lesson in math Molly: 70x0=0 :winkgrin:
Yes. That's so we will know them by their fruits.
But, God is good. He won't let us down. Now to get those oil eating microbes into the oyster beds because I love oysters!
As for these useless government servants--
"And on the morrow, when they had come out of Bethany, he [Jesus] hungered. And seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if perhaps he might find anything thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for it was not the season of figs. And he answered and said unto it, 'No man [will] eat fruit from you from now on — for ever.' And his disciples heard it . . .And as they passed by in the morning, they saw the fig tree withered away from the roots. And Peter calling to remembrance said unto him, 'Rabbi, behold, the fig tree that you cursed is withered away'" (Mk. 11:12-14; 20-21).
Quote from: Molly on July 01, 2010, 10:36:09 AM
Overton blasted BP and the federal government for a lack of effort and coordination in their dual oil-spill response and made a plea to the government to allow the A Whale to join the cleanup operation.
"We need this ship. We need this help," Overton said. "That oil is already contaminating our shoreline. We've got to get the ship out there and see if it works. There's only one way to find out: Get the damn thing in the gulf and we'll see."
That's the difference between the spirit and the law. The law says no it can't be done, but the spirit is eager to help.
Why can't the fools make an exception for just one supertanker, police officers make exceptions every day so why can't the politician's.
Later today: Damning report on oil spill response
By: David Freddoso
Online Opinion Editor
07/01/10 9:35 AM EDT
The Democratic congressional majority has had little stomach for its duty of overseeing the Obama administration. Unfortunately, this has resulted in strictly partisan oversight as Republicans on the House Government Reform and Oversight Committee step into the vacuum. But at least there's someone keeping an eye on this administration, because the press hasn't always been so hot on it.
Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., the committee's ranking member, has announced he will release a report later today on the oil spill response. It appears to bolster criticisms from both the Left and the Right that have rained down on the administration since this disaster began.
Here is part of the preview he provides:
Phantom Assets
"The number of assets claimed [by the White House], however, does not appear to match what is actually in the field. This is corroborated by Plaquemines Parish President Billy Nungesser, who shared a similar story with investigators. BP and Coast Guard provided Mr. Nungesser with a map of the Gulf allegedly pinpointing the exact locations of 140 skimmers cleaning up oil. Sensing that the chart may have been somewhat inaccurate, Mr. Nungesser requested a flyover of the assets for verification. After three cancelled trips, officials admitted to Mr. Nungesser that only 31 of the 140 skimmers were ever deployed. The rest were sitting at the docks. According to Mr. Nungesser, the chart appeared to have been fabricated."
Obama's 'Command-and-Control' An Illusion: Who's In Charge?
"Parish officials maintain that the federal government has not been in control since day one. In four separate interviews, senior-ranking Parish officials described how, until the President's visit on May 28, 2010, BP was in charge. According to one official, "until two weeks ago [after the President's May 28, 2010, visit], BP was in charge and the Coast Guard looked to them for direction." Furthermore, "Coast Guard asks BP," not vice-versa. When specifically asked to agree or disagree with the assertion that the federal government had been in control since day one, another official firmly disagreed. Mr. Nungesser told staff that "today, I can't tell you who is in control," and invited committee investigators to visit the command center to see for themselves."
Resources Used as Bargaining Chip to Mute Criticism
"In some instances, it appears that equipment is provided simply to quiet public criticism. Mr. Nungesser, who has frequently appeared on local and national television, was apparently visited by two White House officials at his office on Fathers' Day. According to Mr. Nungesser, the purpose of their visit was to find a way to keep him from calling attention to the lack of equipment. Specifically, they asked him, "What do we have to do to keep you off tv?" He simply replied, "give me what I need." On another occasion, Placquemines Parish officials requested 20 skimmers at a town hall meeting held by the Coast Guard. According to Mr. Nungesser, "They gave us two skimmers to shut us up." These accounts raise serious questions about whether the Administration is more concerned with fighting a public relations battle than combating the oil spill."
Federal Response Ties Hands of Local Assets
"LaFourche President Charlotte Randolph told committee staff that "we would have liked to have played offense. Would like to have made an effort to collect at the site instead of the shoreline." This belief is echoed by a Jefferson Parish official who, within days of the explosion, warned BP and the Coast Guard that oil was rapidly approaching and requested that they deploy equipment to prevent it from reaching shore. The local official told committee investigators that, "they all said 'don't worry about it." A St. Bernard Parish official, who described the situation as the "slowest and most ineffective response," made an emotional plea to "give us the equipment." There are approximately 700 fishermen in his Parish trained and ready to deploy boom as quickly as the Coast Guard can supply it. Despite multiple requests, however, the supplies are not flowing into the area. As he describes, "it's like giving me a [gun] with no bullets; it's just a paperweight." Accounts such as these not only cast doubt upon the timeline's credibility and the White House accounting of deployed assets, but also call into question the command-and-control structure producing these results."
Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/later-today-damning-report-on-oil-spill-response-97579464.html#ixzz0sRNetfDo
...to destroy him who has the power of death, that is, the devil.
--Heb 2:14
Quote from: thinktank on July 01, 2010, 05:15:36 PM
Quote from: Molly on July 01, 2010, 10:36:09 AM
Overton blasted BP and the federal government for a lack of effort and coordination in their dual oil-spill response and made a plea to the government to allow the A Whale to join the cleanup operation.
"We need this ship. We need this help," Overton said. "That oil is already contaminating our shoreline. We've got to get the ship out there and see if it works. There's only one way to find out: Get the damn thing in the gulf and we'll see."
That's the difference between the spirit and the law. The law says no it can't be done, but the spirit is eager to help.
Why can't the fools make an exception for just one supertanker, police officers make exceptions every day so why can't the politician's.
Yes, I agree. But what is amazing to me is that this giant supertanker seems to have just shown up in the neighborhood saying, "I'm here to help. You wanna try and stop me?" :laughing7:
Where did the supertanker come from? Who invited it to drop by?
God is good.
Quote from: Molly on July 01, 2010, 05:44:02 PM
Yes, I agree. But what is amazing to me is that this giant supertanker seems to have just shown up in the neighborhood saying, "I'm here to help. You wanna try and stop me?" :laughing7:
Where did the supertanker come from? Who invited it to drop by?
God is good.
God's spirit working upon them to help out, it's not like it is an enemy battleship
Quote from: Molly on July 01, 2010, 05:44:02 PMWhere did the supertanker come from? Who invited it to drop by?
Quote from: Molly on June 19, 2010, 08:57:40 AM....supertankerssupertankerssupertankerssupertankerssupertanke?
:laughing7:
BP contractors cover up oil spill with sand (http://www.huliq.com/9990/bp-contractors-cover-oil-spill-sand)
Oil Spill Media Access: Reporters Still Given The Runaround Even As Public Health Concerns Mount (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/01/oil-spill-media-access-re_n_632361.html)
One of the first things BP did after oil started gushing into the Gulf was to spray more than 1.1 million gallons of a dispersant with the optimistic name "Corexit" onto the oil. Then BP hired Louisiana fishermen and others to help with cleanup and containment operations. About two weeks later, over seventy workers fell sick, complaining of irritated throats, coughing, shortness of breath and nausea. Seven workers were hospitalized on May 26. Workers were engaged in a variety of different tasks in different places when they got sick: breaking up oil sheen, doing offshore work, burning oil and deploying boom. BP officials speculated that their illnesses were due to food poisoning or other, unrelated reasons, but others pointed out how unlikely these other causes were, since the sick workers were assigned to different locations.
:sigh: Amazing. God help us if we ever have a worse national emergency. It's like waiting on the 3 Stooges to do the job. Blessings....
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 01, 2010, 06:15:25 PM
Quote from: Molly on July 01, 2010, 05:44:02 PMWhere did the supertanker come from? Who invited it to drop by?
Quote from: Molly on June 19, 2010, 08:57:40 AM....supertankerssupertankerssupertankerssupertankerssupertanke?
:laughing7:
LOL!
Here's a video of the supertanker A WHALE. I think I'm in love. :cloud9:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yV1Q5gEraJ0
Here's a video of a 1914 electric car. And you thought I was kidding about technology being hidden for 100 years. :dunno:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tzc0Men--qc
Matthew 10:26
Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.
It's good that your lover gets as much attention as possible Molly. :laughing7:
Most people don't even know Mr. Change declines all help by hiding behind all kind of fantasy rules.
Reminds me of the e-sigaret we had here for a month or so.
It was an electronic sigaret with no tar. Little nictotine and is smoked/steamed like a real sigaret.
Long story... it was banned because nicotine is unhealty.
But it was far more healty as a normal sigaret with tar and far more nicotine.
Same is going on with A Whale if I undferstand the article.
It sucks up oil/water, cleans it a certain amount and pumps back a oil/water mixture back in the sea. Still polluted water.
Under normal circumstances that's a good law. But now it simply means a method that takes out 70% (my number) is out lawed because of that rule.
Change... Loose Change...
Skimmer scammer. Click here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66qTw2-4SkI&feature=player_embedded)
I think Barry Soetoro is from the Dutch speaking part of South Africa.
Gulf=Golf in Dutch. So he's plugging 18 holes a day on the gulf course :laughing7:
It's being done deliberately. The red states on the Gulf are being destroyed on purpose.
Two months to 'accept' help? I don't think so.
US accepts international assistance for Gulf spill
US accepts international assistance in dealing with massive oil spill in Gulf of Mexico
On Tuesday June 29, 2010, 6:43 pm EDT
WASHINGTON (AP) -- The United States is accepting help from 12 countries and international organizations in dealing with the massive oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico.
The State Department said in a statement Tuesday that the U.S. is working out the particulars of the help that's been accepted.
The identities of all 12 countries and international organizations were not immediately announced. One country was cited in the State Department statement -- Japan, which is providing two high-speed skimmers and fire containment boom.
More than 30 countries and international organizations have offered to help with the spill. The State Department hasn't indicated why some offers have been accepted and others have not.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/US-accepts-international-apf-4104246595.html?x=0&.v=2
:sigh: New one....
http://beforeitsnews.com/news/92/237/Breaking_News_Satellite_imagery_withheld_by_Obama,.html
This website seems to be a good clearinghouse for information on the oil spill. It has pulled together a lot of informative stories about what is happening. Please pray for the Gulf.
http://www.floridaoilspilllaw.com/
Corexit is Killing The Gulf--in 2 parts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2fldJnaNp0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzj2lZDEJMw&feature=related
Arrest For Filming Oil Spill, BY BP CONTRACTORS: BP's Rules, NOT OURS [A Third Of The Waters]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHdwpFdpjVg&NR=1
2 Thessalonians 2:7
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
"mystery"
G3466
μυστήριον
mustērion
moos-tay'-ree-on
From a derivative of μύω muō (to shut the mouth); a secret or "mystery" (through the idea of silence imposed by initiation into religious rites): - mystery.
[of] "iniquity"
G458
ἀνομία
anomia
an-om-ee'-ah
From G459; illegality, that is, violation of law or (generally) wickedness: - iniquity, X transgress (-ion of) the law, unrighteousness.
It will remain a secret until he who holds it back is taken out of the way....
..only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
"letteth"
G2722
κατέχω
katechō
kat-ekh'-o
From G2596 and G2192; to hold down (fast), in various applications (literally or figuratively): - have, hold (fast), keep (in memory), let, X make toward, possess, retain, seize on, stay, take, withhold.
8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
--2 Thes 2
:cloud9: A FB friend of mine posted this.....prophetic dream?
http://www.elijahlist.com/words/display_word/8921
Quote from: Cardinal on July 07, 2010, 01:51:51 AM
:cloud9: A FB friend of mine posted this.....prophetic dream?
http://www.elijahlist.com/words/display_word/8921
That was just beautiful! Thank you.
The good news is, I heard a Voice say in my 2006 experience that great hosts of Heaven will be dispatched to work with Christians to prepare and equip them to walk in realms of glory to facilitate the harvest and become the mature sons of the Kingdom. That is our hope and the object of our prayerful focus and determination.I submit to you there is a host of Heaven that has been reserved for this end-time confrontation that go forth after standing before the Lord of all the earth; the very same ones that will bring the Bride of Christ into her end-time mandate will be the very same ones that cover and protect Israel.
You and I are called to be messengers of His face; we have a calling to see the Lord face-to-face. Jacob had an experience with God. He saw the Lord face-to-face and lived to tell about it. Moses saw the Lord face-to-face and carried the Glory of God. There is about to be a release from Heaven that is to begin to cause you and I to be illuminated, and we're going to shine with the Glory of God.
A posted comment on an oil spill article;
"anybody notice how there aren't any pics of the oil spill in the news lately? they are telling you about BP and the storm, but nobody is showing pictures of beaches. Go to youtube and do some searches, the govt and BP are not allowing cameras anywhere near this thing, and there is a no flyover policy. Reporters are not allowed to fly over the spill. This is a media blackout and the news on this issue is being censored. Remember how despondent people were over this a few weeks ago and now it seems to have blown over? This administration is controlling the media."
True? Exaggerated?
Yes, CNN's Anderson Cooper reported on this a few days ago.
:cloud9: There's definitely a media blackout from all I've been reading from various sources. Another FB friend posted this prophecy. Blessings...
Prophetic Word given at 3:33 a.m., May, 2010
Do not be concerned with cause and effect because the window of opportunity is now closed. My arm is extended in judgment against the nations of the world, and no one can stop what I have already set in motion. I have begun to release my wrath says Adonai, the Almighty One.... See More
Know this, my people, they who scoff at my Torah and mock my name shall be brought low. They who think lofty thoughts and prosper by their own strength shall be brought to their knees. Their financial storehouses will be empty and good for nothing, for I will make the silver and gold they trust in as worthless as clay, ground to powder and blown away like dust in the wind. They will know that I am God who gives and who takes away.
Yes, my people, you will see a shaking of all you hold dear. All that is familiar will become strange and unfamiliar. You will no longer trust in the system of this world. Your governments will become your enemy as they struggle to maintain power. Don't be deceived by their offer of false security and empty promises for a better tomorrow. They are nothing more than delusions. I am the one who blesses and withholds blessings.
There will be great oppression. As people begin to see these things coming upon the Earth, chaos will erupt. There will be great fear and trembling as the world system crumbles before their eyes. The time of my judgment has come. I am the Righteous judge.
Know the times and the seasons, says Adonai, for many will be deceived when they close their ears to my warnings. Separate yourselves from the world and cling to me. Prepare yourselves my people. This is not a time to build, but a time to pare down. Let go of the things that enslave you. Do not busy yourselves with many things for this, in itself, is a great deception and many will fall because of it.
Seek my face as never before. Repent of evil. Turn from it and turn to me. Come before me with clean hands and pure hearts. You will have safety in my presence says the Lord. I am your protection and your provision. My arms will shelter you, but only if you stay in them. Be still before me. Wait quietly and listen for my voice. Remain in my Word and hide it in your inner most being. My words are life to you. Be ready to comfort those in need. Watch the signs that are given and heed my warnings. Fear not, my people, for I am with you always, even to the end of the Earth. I am Adonai, Elohim, and I am coming soon.
wow, Card.
And I was just reading Psalm 91 today!
Joel
2 Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning:
13 And rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil.
14 Who knoweth if he will return and repent, and leave a blessing behind him; even a meat offering and a drink offering unto the LORD your God?
15 Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly:
16 Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet.
17 Let the priests, the ministers of the LORD, weep between the porch and the altar, and let them say, Spare thy people, O LORD, and give not thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen should rule over them: wherefore should they say among the people, Where is their God?
18 Then will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity his people.
19 Yea, the LORD will answer and say unto his people, Behold, I will send you corn, and wine, and oil, and ye shall be satisfied therewith: and I will no more make you a reproach among the heathen:
:cloud9: This is not about the oil per se, but confirms what I have been saying about the days of the Lord, for several years now.
THE PERIOD OF THE END OF TIMES OFFICIALLY STARTS IN 4 DAYS...YES I SAID IT 4 DAYS (here is the math)
According to the Torah and our holy books, our sages say that each day of the week can be equated to 1,000 years of the Hebrew Calendar dating back from the creation of the world until today, as follows:
Sunday – 0 – 1000 C.E.
Monday –1000 C.E. – 2000 C.E.
Tuesday – 2000 C.E. – 3000 C.E.
Wednesday – 3000 C.E. – 4000 C.E.
Thursday – 4000 C.E. – 5000 C.E.
Friday – 5000 C.E. – 6000 C.E.
Shabbat – 6000 C.E. – 7000 C.E.
The Torah mandates that the proper time to say Mincha of Erev Shabbat is the 18th and a half hour of Yom Shishi (Friday, the 6th day of the week), which in the Hebrew Calendar starts upon sundown of Thursday night. This would translate into 12:30 pm Friday.
And what does that mean? The time for Mincha Gedola is when we are already under the influence of the Shabbat, we begin the connection with the spirituality of that sacred day. One can already go to the mikve, and should start preparing for the Shabbat.
Now let's calculate accordingly which year corresponds to Mincha Gdola of Shabbat Eve:
Friday = 5000 C.E. – 6000 C.E.
Each hour is 1000/24 = 41,66666666 years
Beginning of Yom Shishi (Thursday night at 6pm) = 5000 C.E.
Friday (6am - half day) = 5500 C.E.
Friday (12pm - 6 hours later) = 5500 +(1000/24) = 5750 C.E.
Friday (12:30pm) = 5750+(41,66/2) = 5770,833333 C.E. (this current year)
Let's see now what is the 0,833333 over the year 5770 C.E.
The year has 12 months:
Tishrei, Cheshvan, Kislev, Tevet, Shvat, Adar, Nissan, Yiar, Sivan, Tamuz, Av, Elul
Another calculation:
10 = 12 months
.83333 = x
10x = 12x0,83333
X=12x0,83333/10
x= 0,99999999 meaning the 10th month (after finalizing the 10th month)
Tishrei (1)
Cheshvan (2)
Kislev (3)
Tevet (4)
Shvat (5)
Adar (6)
Nisan (7)
Yiar (8)
Sivan (9)
Tamuz (10)
After finalizing the 10th month,
Is the first day of the 11th month, the month of Av.
In other words, it's in ROSH CHODESH AV of 5770 when the first moments of the cosmic Mincha Gedola of the world will begin.
We can see that the upcoming Rosh Chodesh Av is a very special time for the receiving the Kedusha that emanates from these final moments before the Shabbat of the World, and cosmically, the preparation for a new Era.
It will be the highest moment, since Creation, that we are getting ready for the Shabbat time of the entire Creation. On ROSH CHODESH AV is the appropriate time to become more ready, more connected and more attached to the Creator of the world.
We know that for every positive force in the world there is a negative equivalent.
If there is Kedusha, than the Tumah side also must be there.
Since there is so much holiness being emanated in this time, in ROSH CHODESH AV , parallel to this, a not-so-holy event will be taking place.
Rosh Chodesh Av 5770.
Its equivalent date in the Gregorian Calendar is Sunday July 11th, at night after sundown, until sundown of July 12th.
The FINAL GAME OF THE WORLD CUP 2010 is scheduled for July 11th at 8:30pm local time, in Johannesburg - it will be on ROSH CHODESH AV!
The media is expecting an audience of more than 2,5 billion people around the world for this final game.
Almost HALF of the WORLD will be seating in front of the TV to watch 22 people running after a ball, on Rosh Chodesh Av, the MIncha Gedola of the Creation.
Nothing against SOCCER, but even though we can like and enjoy it, we all know that it sounds quite surreal that almost half of the population will be anxiously watching this game.
And especially, now that we just realized how special the first moments of this day will be, how can we be in peace with this thought?
Let's take this opportunity to re-think our priorities in life, and to try to use up more of the Kedusha vibes that will become available in the world at that time to energize our lives with true happiness, and not to let ourselves be fooled by the illusion of the mass-reaction of the ignorant happy bliss of one 'goooal!!!'. Yeah, ok. And then what?
Quote from: CardinalThe media is expecting an audience of more than 2,5 billion people around the world for this final game.
I was expecting you to say that Jesus was going to appear at halftime. :laughing7:
Needless to say, this appears to be a very important time, and the web bots also flag July 11th as an important date for what it's worth.
If you could talk about this a little more.... You said the end of the world begins in 4 days...could you explain all this using different language? I'm having trouble understanding. Are you referring to a 7 year countdown to 2017?
Here's some more on this topic.
What is the Shabbat a shadow of? Let's look at the first mention of Shabbat.
Gen 2:1-4 (Scriptures version) Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their array. (2) And on the seventh day Elohim completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made. (3) And Elohim blessed the seventh day and set it apart, because on it He rested from all His work which Elohim in creating had made. (4) These are the births of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that YHVH Elohim made earth and heavens.
What was the firs thing that Adam did in the Garden? He kept Shabbat. Shabbat is a rest for Mankind, animals and the Land. All of the above are a part of creation. If you are a part of creation, then Shabbat is for you. There is no mention of any covenants as of yet.
YHVH Elohim sanctified the 7th day as THE day of Rest. This also is not done under the regulations of any covenant. In fact when YHVH speaks of the Shabbat to Israel, he tells them to "remember" the Shabbat day to keep it set apart. To remember, means that it has to be in existence previous to the command.
YHVH says: Isa 46:9-10 (Scriptures version) "Remember the former events of old, for I am El, and there is no one else – Elohim, and there is no one like Me, (10) declaring the end from the beginning, and from of old that which has not yet been done, saying, 'My counsel does stand, and all My delight I do,'
There are 7 days total in the creation. The first 6 are the days of creating, and the 7this the day of rest. Each day there is a new creation, each creation builds upon the previous one, for instance ; light then ,land, then fish, etc. Each new creation didn't do away withthe previous, but made the previous more full, and 'better' if you will.
According to Bible chronology, the earthis just under 6,000 years old. The Bible also says that 'A day with YHVH is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is as a day'. I know some will say the above statement is just a generalization that according ot God, time doesn't matter, or that He operates outside of time. Although He is'bound' by time, He does operate in the confine of time, for He created time. Hence, He didn't create the universe in one word, but chose to do it in 6 days, and rest on the 7th. Let's say that with YHVH 1,000 years can be a day, and a day can be 1,000 years. This would mean that the creation week is a picture of the plan for mankind in the world. Just as YHVH spoke, 'declaring THE END FROM THE BEGINNING'. If we study the beginning, we will find out a lot about the end.
So let's look at the days of creation.
First Day: Elohim said let there be light, and there was light. He not only spoke light into existence, but made a distinction between light and darkness. Remember Messiah's words 'what place does light have with darkness'.
Second Day: Elohim created the separation of the waters, and created the "firmament" which is believed to have been a thick canopy of water above the earth.
Third Day: Elohim formed the Land, and plants, that yield seed according to it's kind.
Fourth Day: Elohim created the sun moon and stars. Why? "and let them be for signs and appointed times, and for days and years, and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth."
Fifth Day: Elohim made the waters "alive" with living creatures, and the heavens alive with the foul of the air.
Sixth Day: Elohim made the living creatures, but more importantly, He made Man, and told him, "And Elohim blessed them, and Elohim said to them, "Bear fruit and increase, and fill the earth and subdue it, and rule over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over all creatures moving on the earth."
7th day: Elohim's creation was complete, and He rested from His work. This day He set apart. It is "His day" if you will.
Now, let's compare the creation week to the history of the Word of YHVH. this is not an exhaustive study, just an overview as there is MUCH to be studied here.
From the year "1" to year 1,000, was the life of Adam. Notice that YHVH told Adam that the 'day' he would eat of the fruit he would surely die. Adam didn't live to see one full 'day' or 1,000 years if you will. Also in this 'day' YHVH separated the darkness, Adam's sin, from the Garden, YHVH's light. Thus separating light from darkness.
From the year 1,001 -year 2,000 is the life of Noah. The main theme in Noah's time is that the Earth was destroyed by water, namely the firmament, and the waters of the deep.
From the year 2,001 - year 3,000 is the life of Avraham. There is a covenant given to Avraham, one that is a promise of 'Land' and this promise is given to Avraham's 'seed'. hence we are the 'seed'; of Avraham. Also circumcision is included in this covenant which is the cutting of the member that the 'seed' passes through.
From the year 3,001 – year 4,000. We have the time of the prophets, and most importantly, THE prophet. Messiah came in the flesh BEFORE the common era by at least 3-10 years. Peter says that the Prophets are lights shining in dark places: 2Pe 1:19 And we have the prophetic word made more certain, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. The Sun gives light, just as Messiah IS the Light. The prophets are a guide to understand Yah's plan, just as the heavenly beings, Sun moon stars etc, are guides to Yah's calendar.
From the year 4,001 – year 5,000is the one that I have to study a bit more. In the creation week it is the first mention of 'living beings'. Also, The waters are made 'Alive' by the life given to them, as Messiah has given us 'Living waters'. Also, the 'Ruach or wind' is in the sky, thus giving life in the Ruach as well. This day does need further study. Any input would be awesome!
From the year 5,001-our current place in time, can be summed up as the 'age of man'. In this day, there has been rapid advancement in man's knowledge, and man has indeed subdued the earth. There are more people alive today than people who have died in the history of the world! Most rabbi's believe that we are as much as 250 years from the year 6,000, to as little as two years away. The point is, we are close.
From the year 600,1-year 7,000is the millennial Reign of our Messiah Yeshua, in which He will be named King and given the scepter to rule! This is the day that we are looking for, when he comes ripping through the atmosphere, an atmosphere that has been blacked out, so that EVERY Eye will see His Majestic entry as the Beginning and the End, the Eternal Word of God!! Baruch hashem YHVH!!!
The Shabbat starts with the time of day called Erev, or evening. The day starts out dark, and gets brighter. I believe that just as Shabbat starts out dark, the Millennial reign will start with darkness, but will soon turn to the glorious day, when the Morning Star arises.
Shabbat is a weekly rehearsal of the splendor of Messiah's Millennial reign. If the Sabbath can change, then the plan of Messiah's reign can also change, but YHVH said that it will not: Exo 31:16 "Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant." Does perpetual mean 1,500 years? Or even 4,000 +/- years?
Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and youthroughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you. In a betrothal there is a token given, a token that is a sign of the promise. YHVH gave His people the sign of the promise of his coming, and His rest. That sign is the Shabbat which reminds us of the promise of the Reign of Messiah. Messiah said that He is the Master, or Lord of the Shabbat. This statement is also a foreshadowing that in the seventh millennium Messiah will be king.
Why are we told not to gather food on the Shabbat day? Let's go back to the beginning.
Gen 3:17-19 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; (18) Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; (19) In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Adam didn't have to toil or 'work' for food before he sinned. This was part of the curse. On Shabbat we are told not to gather our food, which is work. This is a picture that in the millenniumwe will no longer toil. This takes the 'prohibition' and turns it to anticipation.
Why are we told not to 'kindle a flame' on Shabbat?
For obvious reasons, starting a fire by friction is VERY hard work, believe me I know. That is the pashat, the plain meaning of the text. But what does a flame represent? Contention, arguing, gossip, fighting etc. What will we be doing in the Millennial Reign? Isa 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall notlift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. Again this takes the 'prohibition and turns it into anticipation. Also, note, that some may do as they are convicted, but I heat my home with fire. To light a fire is no work with a match or lighter. I do make sure that all my wood is gathered so I don't have to go gathering sticks or fire wood on Shabbat.
The sixth day is preparation day. This is the time that we are to prepare for His coming and reign as The Righteous King.
It's tradition to make the Shabbat meal the best meal of the week. This is also a foreshadowing of the banquette table of Messiah.
I guess the question comes to mind. Why would anyone want to not walk in this pattern, engraving it into their heart every week, as they look forward to the coming of our King Messiah? Not just in there mind and heart, but in there actions as well. The Feasts of YHVH, of which Shabbat is the first mentioned, are holy convocations. The Hebrew word for convocations is 'mikrah', which means gathering, but also means rehearsals.
There is MUCH more to glean here from Yah's unmeasurable Word. Let's keep studying together.
Easter, xmas and sunday are notholy rehearsals. The Feasts of YHVH are. They are also commanded to be ETERNAL, not temporal. One might think the reason the 'mainstream institution of christianity' seems to not be concerned with prophecy, especially that of the timing of Messiah's return, is because they have not ever rehearsed it. Instead they have been told it is imminent and not appointed.
Side note, it wasn't until AFTER the shabbat that hasatan, the serpent was told his head would be crushed. Isn't it AFTER the millennial reign that This does in fact happen.
Baruch hashem YHVH!!!
http://profoundprophecy.com/blog/?p=297
:cloud9: I didn't write that Molly.....it came from a Jewish source. My point was that the days line up with what He taught me years ago that I have shared repeatedly about the days as outlined in the Tabernacle and what "time" it is.
I have another prophecy/vision here, someone posted on FB. Will read your post now.....
Yesterday at 11:17pm
I saw the statue of liberty get forced to its knees by two angels.I heard a voice say"On your knees.You commit sins and the world follows them."I then see an angel stick a sword through its back and comes out the front.Then I see a giant cross.I then hear"This cross is for you,it is a torture instrument."
I see the ... See Moreconstitution get torn in half.I hear a voice say"This was for you when you followed Me..You have left Me and My ways.So now I allow it to be destroyed."
I see a group of angels around the american breadbasket.They draw their swords and strike the ground with them.Then I see a boiling cauldron full of bubbling green liquid.It is poured onto the land.I hear a voice say"You shall have drought in the land"
I see 2 angels wrap chains around the philippines.The chains are in a tight weave around Mindinao.This shall be a judgement.
I saw A hourglass with very little sand left.I see a clock that is 2 minutes to 12 oclock.I see a door that is almost closed.The time for judgment and collapse is almost here.
I see south america has red lavalike borders around the continent and some red spots in the waters around it.This is battles and judgments.
I see africa.I see red lavalike borders around it.Heavier in the northern regions.
I see a waterfall that dries up,then I see a map of australia crumbled up and thrown.
I see Israel.It has hammers that appear and strike almost all the countries around it.
I see the chrysler building and I see the empire state building.I then see people running with a crazed look in their faces.I see fires all over New York city.I see a firehose that is fully open with water lose pressure and cease spraying water.I hear a voice saying"I will allow the fires to continue"
I see Nevada.I see a zoom in of Las Vegas.I see a hammer strike it.
I see california.I see a hammer strike it.
I see angels wrap chains all around europe,asia,and russia.
I see the gulf oil spill.I hear a voice say"I have allowed this.I put unbelief in the peoples hearts so they do not believe it is Me.They believe it is of man."
I see a large white set of stairs with 12 people on either side of it.They are kneeling and praying.I see a large golden throne.I see the ark of covenant.I see a blinding light.I then see a figure with robes of white and the feet that have piercings around the ankles and the wrists.His face cant be looked at.I hear Him say"I am the good shepherd.These judgments are for the unbelievers.They are dual purpose.They are to punish and awaken the sleeping.I love My people.I direct the destroyer.I will not allow My people to be harmed.They will feel the pinch of judgment,but shall be safe.Anyone left in the condemned areas will be destroyed.They will suffer destruction just like Lots wife.I will direct you to Goshen.I will not allow Goshen to be harmed.I will protect you from the judgments.Life will not be easy,but you will be safe."
I feel that Goshen shall be areas that He will direct us to.Not one area,but areas all over the country and globe.We as a body need to be in prayer to find out where our own Goshen is.
I see Indonesia get struck with a sickle and then wrapped in chains by angels.
I see a sickle strike America.
Quote from: Molly on July 08, 2010, 11:57:43 PM
Here's some more on this topic.
What is the Shabbat a shadow of? Let's look at the first mention of Shabbat.
Gen 2:1-4 (Scriptures version) Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their array. (2) And on the seventh day Elohim completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made. (3) And Elohim blessed the seventh day and set it apart, because on it He rested from all His work which Elohim in creating had made. (4) These are the births of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that YHVH Elohim made earth and heavens.
What was the firs thing that Adam did in the Garden? He kept Shabbat. Shabbat is a rest for Mankind, animals and the Land. All of the above are a part of creation. If you are a part of creation, then Shabbat is for you. There is no mention of any covenants as of yet.
YHVH Elohim sanctified the 7th day as THE day of Rest. This also is not done under the regulations of any covenant. In fact when YHVH speaks of the Shabbat to Israel, he tells them to "remember" the Shabbat day to keep it set apart. To remember, means that it has to be in existence previous to the command.
YHVH says: Isa 46:9-10 (Scriptures version) "Remember the former events of old, for I am El, and there is no one else – Elohim, and there is no one like Me, (10) declaring the end from the beginning, and from of old that which has not yet been done, saying, 'My counsel does stand, and all My delight I do,'
There are 7 days total in the creation. The first 6 are the days of creating, and the 7this the day of rest. Each day there is a new creation, each creation builds upon the previous one, for instance ; light then ,land, then fish, etc. Each new creation didn't do away withthe previous, but made the previous more full, and 'better' if you will.
According to Bible chronology, the earthis just under 6,000 years old. The Bible also says that 'A day with YHVH is as a thousand years, and a thousand years is as a day'. I know some will say the above statement is just a generalization that according ot God, time doesn't matter, or that He operates outside of time. Although He is'bound' by time, He does operate in the confine of time, for He created time. Hence, He didn't create the universe in one word, but chose to do it in 6 days, and rest on the 7th. Let's say that with YHVH 1,000 years can be a day, and a day can be 1,000 years. This would mean that the creation week is a picture of the plan for mankind in the world. Just as YHVH spoke, 'declaring THE END FROM THE BEGINNING'. If we study the beginning, we will find out a lot about the end.
So let's look at the days of creation.
First Day: Elohim said let there be light, and there was light. He not only spoke light into existence, but made a distinction between light and darkness. Remember Messiah's words 'what place does light have with darkness'.
Second Day: Elohim created the separation of the waters, and created the "firmament" which is believed to have been a thick canopy of water above the earth.
Third Day: Elohim formed the Land, and plants, that yield seed according to it's kind.
Fourth Day: Elohim created the sun moon and stars. Why? "and let them be for signs and appointed times, and for days and years, and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth."
Fifth Day: Elohim made the waters "alive" with living creatures, and the heavens alive with the foul of the air.
Sixth Day: Elohim made the living creatures, but more importantly, He made Man, and told him, "And Elohim blessed them, and Elohim said to them, "Bear fruit and increase, and fill the earth and subdue it, and rule over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over all creatures moving on the earth."
7th day: Elohim's creation was complete, and He rested from His work. This day He set apart. It is "His day" if you will.
Now, let's compare the creation week to the history of the Word of YHVH. this is not an exhaustive study, just an overview as there is MUCH to be studied here.
From the year "1" to year 1,000, was the life of Adam. Notice that YHVH told Adam that the 'day' he would eat of the fruit he would surely die. Adam didn't live to see one full 'day' or 1,000 years if you will. Also in this 'day' YHVH separated the darkness, Adam's sin, from the Garden, YHVH's light. Thus separating light from darkness.
From the year 1,001 -year 2,000 is the life of Noah. The main theme in Noah's time is that the Earth was destroyed by water, namely the firmament, and the waters of the deep.
From the year 2,001 - year 3,000 is the life of Avraham. There is a covenant given to Avraham, one that is a promise of 'Land' and this promise is given to Avraham's 'seed'. hence we are the 'seed'; of Avraham. Also circumcision is included in this covenant which is the cutting of the member that the 'seed' passes through.
From the year 3,001 – year 4,000. We have the time of the prophets, and most importantly, THE prophet. Messiah came in the flesh BEFORE the common era by at least 3-10 years. Peter says that the Prophets are lights shining in dark places: 2Pe 1:19 And we have the prophetic word made more certain, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. The Sun gives light, just as Messiah IS the Light. The prophets are a guide to understand Yah's plan, just as the heavenly beings, Sun moon stars etc, are guides to Yah's calendar.
From the year 4,001 – year 5,000is the one that I have to study a bit more. In the creation week it is the first mention of 'living beings'. Also, The waters are made 'Alive' by the life given to them, as Messiah has given us 'Living waters'. Also, the 'Ruach or wind' is in the sky, thus giving life in the Ruach as well. This day does need further study. Any input would be awesome!
From the year 5,001-our current place in time, can be summed up as the 'age of man'. In this day, there has been rapid advancement in man's knowledge, and man has indeed subdued the earth. There are more people alive today than people who have died in the history of the world! Most rabbi's believe that we are as much as 250 years from the year 6,000, to as little as two years away. The point is, we are close.
From the year 600,1-year 7,000is the millennial Reign of our Messiah Yeshua, in which He will be named King and given the scepter to rule! This is the day that we are looking for, when he comes ripping through the atmosphere, an atmosphere that has been blacked out, so that EVERY Eye will see His Majestic entry as the Beginning and the End, the Eternal Word of God!! Baruch hashem YHVH!!!
The Shabbat starts with the time of day called Erev, or evening. The day starts out dark, and gets brighter. I believe that just as Shabbat starts out dark, the Millennial reign will start with darkness, but will soon turn to the glorious day, when the Morning Star arises.
Shabbat is a weekly rehearsal of the splendor of Messiah's Millennial reign. If the Sabbath can change, then the plan of Messiah's reign can also change, but YHVH said that it will not: Exo 31:16 "Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant." Does perpetual mean 1,500 years? Or even 4,000 +/- years?
Exo 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and youthroughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you. In a betrothal there is a token given, a token that is a sign of the promise. YHVH gave His people the sign of the promise of his coming, and His rest. That sign is the Shabbat which reminds us of the promise of the Reign of Messiah. Messiah said that He is the Master, or Lord of the Shabbat. This statement is also a foreshadowing that in the seventh millennium Messiah will be king.
Why are we told not to gather food on the Shabbat day? Let's go back to the beginning.
Gen 3:17-19 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; (18) Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; (19) In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Adam didn't have to toil or 'work' for food before he sinned. This was part of the curse. On Shabbat we are told not to gather our food, which is work. This is a picture that in the millenniumwe will no longer toil. This takes the 'prohibition' and turns it to anticipation.
Why are we told not to 'kindle a flame' on Shabbat?
For obvious reasons, starting a fire by friction is VERY hard work, believe me I know. That is the pashat, the plain meaning of the text. But what does a flame represent? Contention, arguing, gossip, fighting etc. What will we be doing in the Millennial Reign? Isa 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall notlift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. Again this takes the 'prohibition and turns it into anticipation. Also, note, that some may do as they are convicted, but I heat my home with fire. To light a fire is no work with a match or lighter. I do make sure that all my wood is gathered so I don't have to go gathering sticks or fire wood on Shabbat.
The sixth day is preparation day. This is the time that we are to prepare for His coming and reign as The Righteous King.
It's tradition to make the Shabbat meal the best meal of the week. This is also a foreshadowing of the banquette table of Messiah.
I guess the question comes to mind. Why would anyone want to not walk in this pattern, engraving it into their heart every week, as they look forward to the coming of our King Messiah? Not just in there mind and heart, but in there actions as well. The Feasts of YHVH, of which Shabbat is the first mentioned, are holy convocations. The Hebrew word for convocations is 'mikrah', which means gathering, but also means rehearsals.
There is MUCH more to glean here from Yah's unmeasurable Word. Let's keep studying together.
Easter, xmas and sunday are notholy rehearsals. The Feasts of YHVH are. They are also commanded to be ETERNAL, not temporal. One might think the reason the 'mainstream institution of christianity' seems to not be concerned with prophecy, especially that of the timing of Messiah's return, is because they have not ever rehearsed it. Instead they have been told it is imminent and not appointed.
Side note, it wasn't until AFTER the shabbat that hasatan, the serpent was told his head would be crushed. Isn't it AFTER the millennial reign that This does in fact happen.
Baruch hashem YHVH!!!
http://profoundprophecy.com/blog/?p=297
:cloud9: AMEN, love it.... :thumbsup:
No one knows the day or hour, but perhaps we can know the seasons as Christ taught, even I dare say the year.
:cloud9: This is interesting and once again proving that He is in control, since what the Israelites went thru was for OUR example...
Much of the start of Parshah Masei discusses the 42 stations that the Jews stopped and encamped in the wilderness during their 40 years stay there prior entering Israel.The 42 stations that the Jews stopped at corresponded to Hashem's ineffable name.
The stations are listed in the order which they stayed in. Just before the sin of the spies (which we learn in Parshah Shelach), the Jews had encamped at 14 stations in their first year in the wilderness. We also learn that in the last year in the wilderness, the Jews encamped at eight different stations which was the fortieth year. This means that in the 38 years between, the Jews encamped in 20 stations.
They encamped in many places, some of the stations alluded to events that took place there or took place in Jews history. At Sukkot, Hashem began to shelter the Jews with 7 clouds; at Mara, there was an oasis featuring bitter water.
Refidim was their 11th stop, it was a place where they grew week in Torah which is eluded by the name. The 26th stop was at Chashmona, a place alluding to the Hasmonean family featured in the Chanukah story.
One of the reasons why the Torah went to great effort to discuss the listing of the stations was to show that their wanderings were dictated by a definite spiritual plan.
The parshah then progresses describing how Hashem commanded the Jews to drive out the nations when they are to enter the land of Israel, as many of these nations were steeped into idolatry and even worse matters.
Next up, the parshah then describes the land borders in how each of the lands were to be divided up and what the borders of the land was. We then learn that the Levite tribe were to dwell in 48 different cities scattered around Israel. The Levites were the Torah scholars, they were meant to exemplify Torah life in the land of Israel and shine it to the rest of the tribes.
Six of these forty eight cities were to become cities of refuge for people to live in. A city of refuge would shelter an inadvertent murderer from his pursuer (the man who is closest relative of the victim). It would protect the murderer from any harm.
The inadvertent murderer would be released from the city of refuge with full protection when the Kohen Gadol would die. Every murder taking place in Israel would be partly blamed on the Kohen Gadol, as he should have made more effort to make a more potent prayer on Yom Kippur day, in the holy of holies when praying for the Jewish nation.
His death would provide atonement for the Jews. Whether murder is done by accident or not, it has huge ramifications. The victims would not just be the murdered person, but his offspring that may not have been born to him.
In parshah Bereicrap, we learn how Kayin murdered Hevel, all of the blood of Hevel's future generations cried out to Hashem.
We learn in the book of Kings that before King Achav went to war, it was judged in heaven he would die, as the blood of the murdered Nabot cried out to heaven. Nabot was cruelly murdered by the actions of Achav and his wife Jezeebel. Achav then went and led the war and died in the middle of battle.
We learn in Parshah Shoftim that an inadvertent murderer must live in the city of refuge. Also as the Levites were to live there, they would be able to teach much of the Torah they knew to these people.
The city of Refuge was both a kindness and punishment to the inadvertent murderer. The kindness was that it would protect him from his avenger however it was a punishment as he would have to separate from his family and live in a totally different location.
The Torah then relates a warning how one should not let a deliberate murderer escape with his life.
Read more on this Dvar Torah at http://torahvort.com/jewiki/index.php?title=Masei
Not sure if everyone is aware of this fact, but there are three solar eclipses which are occurring three years in a row on the 1st day of the Jewish month of Av.
The first two occurred Av 1, 2008 (which was the Gregorian calendar date of July 31) and Av 1, 2009 (which was the Gregorian calendar date of July 22).
The 3rd one will occur again on Av 1 of this year, 2010 (which will be the Gregorian calendar date of July 11).
This is significant because never before have there been three solar eclipses three years in a row on the same calendar date.
Of note is that God chose the same JEWISH calendar date to have these eclipses fall on.
Also of note is that Av 1 is the first day of the nine-day period of mourning that ends on the Ninth of Av (Tisha B'Av) – the day that the first and second Jewish temples were destroyed, although hundreds of years apart.
Taken from: www.christian-forum.net/index.php?showtopic=36403
:cloud9: :thumbsup: Yes, I heard about this last year, I think. I lost the link on it. Definitely God trying to get us to "look up".....Blessings....
'A Whale' in Gulf of Mexico on humanitarian mission: TMT
2010/07/08 21:04:02
Taipei, July 8 (CNA) The Taiwanese company TMT Offshore Group that owns a vessel which is now in the Gulf of Mexico trying to help clean up the oil spill has broken its silence on the matter, saying that its efforts are for humanitarian purposes, not for profit.
Managing Director Robert Tsai said that because few people in Taiwan really know TMT's owner, the assumption has been made in the media and elsewhere that he is taking a huge gamble in an effort to make money from the beleaguered energy giant British Petroleum (BP) , which is still trying to cap the well and mop up the spill almost three months after its oil rig exploded in the Gulf.
According to Tsai, TMT's reclusive owner Nobu Su not only has "an enormous appetite for risk" as the Financial Times said in 2008, but also "an enthusiastic and caring heart for the wellbeing of the public."
Su, a shipping magnate with a degree from Switzerland's IMD Business School, was daring enough to unhesitatingly spend millions to convert A Whale from a supertanker into a super oil skimmer, Tsai told the Central News Agency.
Su's idea is to use the retrofitted vessel to suck up 21 million gallons of oily water per day from the Gulf, siphon off the oil and pump the water back into the sea.
However, the ship's 32 crew members, who have been working around the clock, have experienced difficulty testing the operation because of high waves near the ship's intake vents, Tsai said.
Su, an intensely private man, has been staying either in New Orleans or onboard A Whale with the crew and has declined interviews. The staff of TMT in Taiwan has also been close-lipped about the testing of the A Whale's functions as an oil skimmer.
But in an exclusive interview with the CNA, Tsai said A Whale is not in the Gulf to seek a profit but rather to try to help with the problem. "If it can't help, A Whale will be converted back into an oil tanker," Tsai said.
According to Su's spokesman in New Orleans, Bob Grantham, the spill in the Gulf of Mexico is the biggest environmental disaster in history, and no one has any experience dealing with a problem of that magnitude, therefore it is a learning process for A Whale.
Dennis Bryant, a former U.S. Coast Guard officer, has been quoted in the media as saying that A Whale would likely be more effective with thicker concentrations of oil and that its technique is not the best way to tackle this particular spill.
But Tsai said while Bryant's analysis may be correct, TMT has nothing to offer but A Whale and this is what TMT can do now. (By Cheryl Lai)
http://focustaiwan.tw/ShowNews/WebNews_Detail.aspx?ID=201007080037&Type=aSOC
Am I the only one who thinks it is pathetic that the people of the United States must look to a humanitarian for help because our own government will not help us? How much more evidence is needed that we are like a third world country unable to help ourselves?
I am indeed grateful to Mr. Nobu Su, whoever he might be, for sending us this mighty ship without asking the permission of our government who would surely have denied it as they have all other help. He has shamed them into accepting his help, or being forced to lie about why they will not, by just showing up.
Thank you, Mr. Su!
Gulf coast senators introduce bill to allow foreign ships to help with BP oil spill clean-up
By Chris Moody - The Daily Caller | Published: 1:54 AM 06/22/2010 | Updated: 3:49 PM 06/22/2010
Three Republican senators from states on the Gulf of Mexico have introduced a bill they say will make it easier for the United States to accept foreign ships to help the BP oil spill clean-up effort.
Texas Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison joined with Florida Senator George LeMieux and John Cornyn of Texas to draft a bill that would temporarily suspend the Jones Act in the Gulf region, which they say is keeping foreign ships from offering aid. The 90-year-old law, which already includes a provision that allows waivers for foreign ships on a case-by-case basis, mandates that vessels may only partake in coastwise transport between U.S. ports if they are "constructed in the United States, owned by United States citizens and crewed by United States citizens and/or permanent residents." The bill's sponsors say that given the emergency situation, the provisions currently in place do not go far enough.
"With still only 20 skimmers off the coast of Florida, we need to expedite additional assistance," LeMieux said. "Any vessels ready to help should be allowed into the Gulf."
Former President Bush temporarily suspended the law in the wake of hurricane disasters in 2005. According to Keith Hennessy, who served as Bush's deputy at the White House National Economic Council at the time, the waiver's actual impact was "small and diffuse ... [but] every little bit helped." The senators say they are taking action because President Obama has not issued an executive order to waive the protectionist law.
"The administration has failed to issue a waiver on the Jones Act, which is blockading foreign vessels from working with their American counterparts to remove the oil from the waters of the Gulf," said Hutchison. "The federal response to this spill has been unacceptable, and we cannot wait around until the disaster gets worse."
Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2010/06/22/gulf-coast-senators-introduce-bill-to-allow-foreign-ships-to-help-with-bp-oil-spill-clean-up/#ixzz0tCzordOy
:cloud9: I think Bobby Jindal, governor of Louisiana, said it best....."Lead, follow, or get out the way." It's glaringly obvious by now that the "leader" we have in the White House is not interested in leading, unless it's leading a raiding of the federal coffers to repay the ones that pumped millions into his campaign. :sigh: Blessings....
7-5-10, 2:00 p.m. – Uh-oh. This ain't good.
The Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries today closed Lake Catherine and Borne for fishing and Lake Pontchartrain east of the Highway 11 Bridge. Also closed is the Rigolets Pass.
At the Rigolet Marina, recreational fishermen returned from fishing trips this morning with samples of sticky tar balls they collected while on the water. They say they found the tar balls by the CSX Railroad bridge through the Rigolets. Last night, the Lake Pontchartrain Basin Foundation confirmed oil had moved west of CSX bridge.
It's not really a surprise, since oil has hit shore virtually everywhere else in the spill's strike zone. But it's something of a head-scratcher as to why a $3 billion effort to fight the oil spill couldn't keep the oil coming in through a narrow pass like the Rigolets.
Great fishing areas before the spill, and who knows when they'll be great again.
7-3-10, 1:45 p.m. – Former Congressman Ernest Istook, now a fellow at the Heritage Foundation, has a column at the Daily Caller on the "A-Whale" that is worth reading for a number of reasons. It points out that free enterprise, risk-taking and the entrepreneurial spirit is alive and well – but unfortunately it appears it's made in Taiwan these days...
[Nobu] Su [of Taiwan, CEO of TMT Corporation] met with Coast Guard officials Thursday in New Orleans to outline this weekend's trial run of the A Whale, the huge tanker/oil skimmer which Su has brought to America. He says the ship is the long-needed "big answer to a big problem."
Although he was dismissed when he originally shared his concept with BP and U.S. officials after the Deepwater Horizon explosion, Su forged ahead and spent millions to add intake valves on the bow of the 1,115-foot, 10-story tall ship. These allow it to gather 500,000 barrels daily of spilled oil and water—250 times the capacity of the other ships now engaged in the cleanup.
In a face-to-face meeting in Washington, DC, Su told me he still does not know how many millions he spent to sail the ship from near Shanghai to a Portugal shipyard, there to have its unique oil-skimming system installed, and then dispatch the ship to the U.S. He says he made the decision to act about May 1st and the ship arrived in the U.S. by June 25—a timetable that U.S. officials had considered impossible to achieve.
Su believes so firmly in its potential that he already has retrofitting underway in Portugal on the B Whale, a sister ship that he says could arrive in the Gulf of Mexico by mid-July. And the C Whale not too long afterwards.
Despite the original rebuffs from BP and federal bureaucrats, Su charged ahead. Rather than waiting to be invited to help in the Gulf, he wrangled an invitation from Virginia Gov. Robert McDonnell to make port in Norfolk for a media event. Once it was on the scene, it became impossible for the Coast Guard and other federal officials, plus BP, to overlook the Whale. And McDonnell's avid support was a big help.
In essence, the A Whale had crashed the cleanup party, rather than waiting for an invitation.
The thing is, the A-Whale is still being held to that asinine 15 parts per million EPA standard even now. It's in the Mississippi River doing EPA testing, and if it doesn't manage to beat 15 parts per million, the feds could tell Su thanks, but no thanks.
The MMS standard for water discharge, according to a friend who handles water purification for offshore rigs as they discharge waste water, is 29 parts per million – and that standard is almost never met because it's virtually impossible to meet. Half that number, for a skimmer engaged in taking oil out of water amid a spill of this magnitude, is, in his words, " laughable."
If the EPA ends up rejecting the A-Whale because of the 15 parts per million standard, the reaction in Louisiana and elsewhere on the Gulf Coast is going to be something to see.
7-1-10, 5:45 p.m. – Feel free to download the Issa report on the Gulf spill cleanup in PDF format here.
It's a very big deal. We're still going through it, and it's already made us very, very angry.
http://www.familysecuritymatters.org/publications/id.6661/pub_detail.asp
:sigh: I think it's obvious they are (for some reason known only to the "elite" in the know), determined that the gulf coast be destroyed. I read a report today that bus size tar mats are washing up in Florida now. Blessings....
Quote from: Cardinal on July 10, 2010, 05:46:50 AM
:sigh: I think it's obvious they are (for some reason known only to the "elite" in the know), determined that the gulf coast be destroyed. I read a report today that bus size tar mats are washing up in Florida now. Blessings....
As goes the Gulf, so goes the country.... :sigh:
Create enough chaos, bring enough destruction, overload all the systems, then you can take over and do what you want. Big Brother knows best.
:sigh: So it seems......they think so, anyway.....
Perhaps the elite are trying to make bp bankrupt. Or another thought occured to put an end on Americas dependency on oil, by highlighting this disaster and making it worse, so that power is wrestled away from the oil companies and shift America to start using renewables.
Quote from: jabcat on July 10, 2010, 05:50:55 AM
Create enough chaos, bring enough destruction, overload all the systems, then you can take over and do what you want. Big Brother knows best.
On the good side, many of the governors are starting to act like what they are, the heads of sovereign countries [the States]. Now if the American people would just remember who they are: sovereign kings and priests.
I would vote for this woman for President any day of the week.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzDlN7VLmXQ
Quote from: thinktank on July 10, 2010, 05:53:39 AM
Perhaps the elite are trying to make bp bankrupt. Or another thought occured to put an end on Americas dependency on oil, by highlighting this disaster and making it worse, so that power is wrestled away from the oil companies and shift America to start using renewables.
Renewables are 85 percent inefficient, which is why none of the developing countries want to use them. We could end our dependency on foreign oil by drilling all the rich oil fields we have right here in our own country, and drilling in 5000 feet of ocean water is not necessary: look for explanations of this by John Hofmeister, ex CEO of Shell Oil. Oil is so plentiful in our own country that we could all take baths in it every night. All they have to do is drill it. [but that would cut out the middle man, and make everyone rich--not a good idea in satan's economy.]
Or, on the other hand, they could give us the clean, quiet, and abundant technology they have been hiding from us for 100 years. Right now I am charging a battery using a magnetic field--how quaint!
Renewables are costly to implement but in the long run cheaper, free electric. The problem is nobody will make any money. For the big bucks are made in consumable products and renewables are not consumable.
Third world countries are begining to develop renewables thanks to investors and cut out the greedy oil companies from exploiting them.
As for the oil fields in America the oil has been stagnant for they are too deep to drill in the past, only recently has new technology been invented that enables the drill to go down deeper and suck up the oil, for there is no pressure left for the oil to come gushing out. Don't ask how it works. But in my opinion why use oil to power generators, they should keep that limited oil in reserve for things like plastics and chemicals and use renewables to power generators.
Satan loves this type of system--everybody loses...
Biofuels Ignite Food Crisis Debate
ScienceDaily (Jan. 29, 2009) — Study highlights problems linked to converting crops into biofuels. Taking up valuable land and growing edible crops for biofuels poses a dilemma: Is it ethical to produce inefficient renewable energies at the expense of an already malnourished population?
David Pimentel and his colleagues from Cornell University in New York State highlight the problems linked to converting a variety of crops into biofuels. Not only are these renewable energies inefficient, they are also economically and environmentally costly and nowhere near as productive as projected. Their findings are published online in Springer's journal Human Ecology.
In the context of global shortages of fossil energy – oil and natural gas in particular – governments worldwide are focusing on biofuels as renewable energy alternatives. In parallel, almost 60 percent of the world's population is malnourished increasing the need for grains and other basic foods. Growing crops, including corn, sugarcane and soybean, for fuel uses water and energy resources vital for the production of food for human consumption.
Professor Pimentel and his team review the availability and use of land, water and current energy resources globally, and then look at the situation in the US specifically. They also analyze biomass resources and show that there is insufficient US biomass for both ethanol and biodiesel production to make the US oil independent.
Their paper then looks at the efficiency and costs associated with converting a range of crops into energy and shows that in each case more energy is required for this process than they actually produce as fuel. The research finds a negative energy return of 46 percent for corn ethanol, 50 percent for switchgrass, 63 percent for soybean biodiesel and 58 percent for rapeseed. Even the most promising palm oil production results in a minus 8 percent net energy return. There are also a number of environmental problems linked to converting crops for biofuels, including water pollution from fertilizers and pesticides, global warming, soil erosion and air pollution.
In the researchers' opinion, there is simply not enough land, water and energy to produce biofuels. They also argue that ironically, the US is becoming more oil-dependent, not less, as was intended through the production of biofuels. In most cases, more fossil energy is required to produce a unit of biofuel compared with the energy that it provides. As a result, the US is importing more oil and natural gas in order to make the biofuels.
The authors conclude that "Growing crops for biofuels not only ignores the need to reduce natural resource consumption, but exacerbates the problem of malnourishment worldwide by turning food grain into biofuels...Increased use of biofuels further damages the global environment and especially the world food system."
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/090128074830.htm
Lies and wishful thinking are satan's stock in trade...
In a speech in May, President Obama pushed for our nation to transition to renewable energy and pointed to Denmark as an example of proof it can be done:
" America produces less than 3 percent of our electricity through renewable sources of energy like wind and solar — less than 3 percent. In contrast, Denmark produces 20 percent of their electricity through wind."
But according to a new study from the Danish Centre for Political Studies (CEPOS), commissioned by the Institute for Energy Research, the road to increased wind power is less traveled for a reason. The study refutes the claim that Denmark generates 20 percent of its power from wind stating that its high intermittency not only leads to new challenges to balance the supply and demand of electricity, but also provides less electricity consumption than assumed. The new study says, "wind power has recently (2006) met as little as 5% of Denmark's annual electricity consumption with an average over the last five years of 9.7%." Furthermore, the wind energy Denmark exports to its northern neighbors, Sweden and Norway, does little to reduce carbon dioxide emissions because the energy it replaces is carbon neutral.
The study goes on to say that the only reason wind power exists in Denmark is "through substantial subsidies supporting the wind turbine owners. Exactly how the subsidies have been shared between land, wind turbine owners, labor, capital and its shareholders is opaque, but it is fair to assess that no Danish wind industry to speak of would exist if it had to compete on market terms."
But there's a cost involved. When government spends more money, it necessarily diverts labor, capital and materials from the private sector. Just like promises are made in the United States about green jobs creation, the heavily subsidized Danish program created 28,400 jobs. But "this does not, however, constitute the net employment effect of the wind mill subsidy. In the long run, creating additional employment in one sector through subsidies will detract labor from other sectors, resulting in no increase in net employment but only in a shift from the non-subsidized sectors to the subsidized sector."
And because these resources are being diverted away from more productive uses (in terms of value added, the energy technology underperforms compared to industrial average), "Danish GDP is approximately $270 million lower than it would have been if the wind sector work force was employed elsewhere."
The entire study is available here.
This is very similar to what we've seen in Spain. Research directed by economist Gabriel Calzada, at King Juan Carlos University, analyzed the subsidized expenditure necessary to create the green jobs in Spain. It compared those funds to the private expenditure needed to support the average conventional job. Supported by other data as well, they conclude that each subsidized green job in Spain eliminated over two conventional jobs.
And it will be very similar to what we see in the United States if we move forward with cap and trade and a renewable electricity standard that mandates a certain percentage of electricity come from wind and solar. The intent of a subsidy is to increase the production of a good or service if it is underprovided by the market for some reason. This is not the case with energy. The market, not the government-funded industries, can provide the most affordable energy for consumers. Mandates, subsidies and other preferential treatment simply benefit few at the expense of many. Denmark and Spain are learning the hard way.
http://blog.heritage.org/2009/09/14/wind-power-an-expensive-and-inefficient-way-to-reduce-co2/
Go Green, Go Broke
Based on the hot air put out in the past 2 years, couldn't we run our country on wind power right now? :laughing7:
Wind energy is one of the worst renewables though, in my opinion the design could be much improved, where the size of the thing is much smaller and requires less wind to power the generator. Look at a dynamo on a bike that can power a light very easilly, but these wind turbines operate in high wind areas and only generate a small amount of electricity. :2c:
I have an idea that can power electric and that is to use the prison population to manually power a turbine using good old fashioned muscle power. Prisoner rights and so forth means that whoever does the job will get their daily excercise and rewarded with beer and can watch tv while they spin the turbine. They'll get free beer, tv and also do their part in helping society, which they previously did harm against.
QuoteWind energy is one of the worst renewables though...
What is one of the best--if there is such a thing?
QuoteI have an idea that can power electric and that is to use the prison population to manually power a turbine using good old fashioned muscle power.
Oh my...are we going back to slaves as beasts of burden? Why not just throw their bodies in the furnace for fuel --a modest proposal...?
Really, we are not so desperate as they make it appear. We can drill for our own oil and build nuclear power plants while waiting for them to release the technologies for free energy that have existed for 100 years. In fact, we should not wait any longer, but demand they release them.
:cloud9: Found this link again finally.....
http://beforeitsnews.com/story/94/974/Louisiana_Gov._Jindal_to_Feds:_No_Is_Not_A_Plan,_Lead_Or_Get_Out_Of_The_Way.html
VIDEO Anderson Cooper CNN
First Amendment Suspended in the Gulf of Mexico
http://naturalnews.tv/v.asp?v=203
(NaturalNews) As CNN is now reporting, the U.S. government has issued a new rule that would make it a felony crime for any journalist, reporter,
blogger or photographer to approach any oil cleanup operation,
equipment or vessel in the Gulf of Mexico. Anyone caught is subject to
arrest, a $40,000 fine and prosecution for a federal felony crime.
CNN reporter Anderson Cooper says, "A new law passed today, and backed by
the force of law and the threat of fines and felony charges, ... will
prevent reporters and photographers from getting anywhere close to booms
and oil-soaked wildlife just about any place we need to be. By now
you're probably familiar with cleanup crews stiff-arming the media,
private security blocking cameras, ordinary workers clamming up, some
not even saying who they're working for because they're afraid of losing
their jobs."
The rule, of course, is designed to restrict the media's access to cleanup
operations in order to keep images of oil-covered seabirds off the
nation's televisions. With this, the Gulf Coast cleanup operation has
now entered a weird Orwellian reality where the news is shaped,
censored and controlled by the government in order to prevent the public
from learning the truth about what's really happening in the Gulf.
http://expanton.ning.com/forum/topics/first-amendment-suspended-in
I tell you Winston, that reality is not external. Reality exists in the human mind, and nowhere else. Not in the individual mind, which can make mistakes, and in any case soon perishes: only in the mind of the party, which is collective and immortal. Whatever the party holds to be truth, is truth. It is impossible to see reality except by looking through the eyes of the Party.
--Geo Orwell, 1984
Orwell was not a gifted prophetic writer. He was a whistleblower
Quote from: Cardinal on July 10, 2010, 10:55:33 AM
:cloud9: Found this link again finally.....
http://beforeitsnews.com/story/94/974/Louisiana_Gov._Jindal_to_Feds:_No_Is_Not_A_Plan,_Lead_Or_Get_Out_Of_The_Way.html
Jindal needs to do it himself and let the chips fall where they may. Just like the
Gov of Arizona. He needs to invite in international help. Just like the Gov of Va.
I saw a video yesterday. The oyster beds are dead. Nice going EPA, Coast Guard,
and Obama--keep up the good work! I'm sure you can fly in your oysters
from Vietnam, no problem.
Quote from: Molly on July 10, 2010, 07:35:45 AM
QuoteWind energy is one of the worst renewables though...
What is one of the best--if there is such a thing?
QuoteI have an idea that can power electric and that is to use the prison population to manually power a turbine using good old fashioned muscle power.
Oh my...are we going back to slaves as beasts of burden? Why not just throw their bodies in the furnace for fuel --a modest proposal...?
Really, we are not so desperate as they make it appear. We can drill for our own oil and build nuclear power plants while waiting for them to release the technologies for free energy that have existed for 100 years. In fact, we should not wait any longer, but demand they release them.
Not going back, Forward! An idle man breeds bad things and prisoners don't do anything all day. If I was a prisoner whether guilty or innocent, I would rather power a turbine get fit and strong, than sit in my cell all day with nothing to dwell upon but the crime or lack of crime that I did. A lot of prisoners go into prison and comeback out worse than before, the idleness breeds guilt, and a spirit of destruction.
There's a big difference between 1 hour of willing excercise a day, compared to slaves who had to work all day at the crack of a whip, if the average mum can do 1 hour of lifting babies a day im sure a hardened criminal can do 1 hour of treadmill.
Quote from: Molly on July 10, 2010, 07:35:45 AM
Oh my...are we going back to slaves as beasts of burden? Why not just throw their bodies in the furnace for fuel --a modest proposal...
To much water Molly. :winkgrin:
Quote from: Molly on July 10, 2010, 11:49:16 AMJindal needs to do it himself and let the chips fall where they may. Just like the
Gov of Arizona. He needs to invite in international help.
Seems .gov and .bp get 50000 emails (a day?) with "solutions"
Another skimmer that also works on 2.5 meter high waves is being tested soon.
Quote from: thinktank on July 10, 2010, 06:48:45 PM
Quote from: Molly on July 10, 2010, 07:35:45 AM
QuoteWind energy is one of the worst renewables though...
What is one of the best--if there is such a thing?
QuoteI have an idea that can power electric and that is to use the prison population to manually power a turbine using good old fashioned muscle power.
Oh my...are we going back to slaves as beasts of burden? Why not just throw their bodies in the furnace for fuel --a modest proposal...?
Really, we are not so desperate as they make it appear. We can drill for our own oil and build nuclear power plants while waiting for them to release the technologies for free energy that have existed for 100 years. In fact, we should not wait any longer, but demand they release them.
Not going back, Forward! An idle man breeds bad things and prisoners don't do anything all day. If I was a prisoner whether guilty or innocent, I would rather power a turbine get fit and strong, than sit in my cell all day with nothing to dwell upon but the crime or lack of crime that I did. A lot of prisoners go into prison and comeback out worse than before, the idleness breeds guilt, and a spirit of destruction.
There's a big difference between 1 hour of willing excercise a day, compared to slaves who had to work all day at the crack of a whip, if the average mum can do 1 hour of lifting babies a day im sure a hardened criminal can do 1 hour of treadmill.
I think it's an excellent idea! We could test the program with Obama, his administration, and all those members of Congress who are so dedicated to green that they would dictate the final destruction of the American economy for it. Michelle, too, since she is so health conscious. What do you think? Two hours a day on the treadmill? That shouldn't cut too badly into their busy schedules of doing nothing in the Gulf and doing nothing at the border and doing nothing for the economy.
But, Algore--he has to atone for the footprint of two 25,000 sq foot mansions. We need a special program for him. What do you think, 10 hours a day?
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 10, 2010, 07:28:48 PM
Quote from: Molly on July 10, 2010, 07:35:45 AM
Oh my...are we going back to slaves as beasts of burden? Why not just throw their bodies in the furnace for fuel --a modest proposal...
To much water Molly. :winkgrin:
That just makes it as desirably inefficient as every other type of 'green' energy.
It's a plus!
Only beans and onions for inmates. And a gas turbine on the roof :eeew:
http://www.engadget.com/2007/12/19/toshibas-building-a-micro-nuclear-reactor-for-your-garage/
Quote from: Molly on July 10, 2010, 07:37:05 PM
But, Algore--he has to atone for the footprint of two 25,000 sq foot mansions. We need a special program for him. What do you think, 10 hours a day?
Dunno if the mistress of All Gore agrees. :mblush:
:cloud9: What mistress? He said there were no other people involved with either of them. You mean he LIED??? :mshock: Surely not. :winkgrin: None of our politicians lie. :laughing7:
[quote author=Molly link=topic=7025.msg98770#msg98770 date=1278779825
I think it's an excellent idea! We could test the program with Obama, his administration, and all those members of Congress who are so dedicated to green that they would dictate the final destruction of the American economy for it. Michelle, too, since she is so health conscious. What do you think? Two hours a day on the treadmill? That shouldn't cut too badly into their busy schedules of doing nothing in the Gulf and doing nothing at the border and doing nothing for the economy.
But, Algore--he has to atone for the footprint of two 25,000 sq foot mansions. We need a special program for him. What do you think, 10 hours a day?
[/quote]
lol
Quote from: Cardinal on July 10, 2010, 07:50:18 PM
:cloud9: What mistress? He said there were no other people involved with either of them. You mean he LIED??? :mshock: Surely not. :winkgrin: None of our politicians lie. :laughing7:
Politics => poly - tics => Many tics :icon_jokercolor:
http://gawker.com/5564292/al-gores-rumored-mistress-larry-david-ex+wife
:cloud9: Yes, it's much better to be a "hairy tic", lol....
Quote from: Cardinal on July 10, 2010, 11:04:55 PM
:cloud9: Yes, it's much better to be a "hairy tic", lol....
I suppose a hairy tic keeps warm.
:cloud9: You get it right? Heretic = hairy tic....lol
http://www.manataka.org/page1083.html
Tic Bread
Ingredients:
1/2 cup shortening
3/4 cup sugar
2 bananas, mashed
2 cups flour
1 teaspoon soda
1 teaspoon salt
1/2 cup chopped nuts
2 egg
1/4 cup shaven hairy tics
Quote from: Cardinal on July 10, 2010, 11:21:16 PM
:cloud9: You get it right? Heretic = hairy tic....lol
yeah, I mean a herectic keeps warm because they are close to Jesus, well at least some of them are, lol. Also a hairy tic keeps warmer than a hairless tic. :happy3:
When the lord said to Peter all things are clean, I think youve taken things a bit to far :laughing7:
Beware of the leaven of the Pharisee :laughing7:
Tic Bread
Ingredients:
1/2 cup shortening
3/4 cup sugar
2 bananas, mashed
2 cups flour
1 teaspoon soda
1 teaspoon salt
1/2 cup chopped nuts
2 egg
1/4 cup shaven hairy tics
(http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/rro/lowres/rron338l.jpg)
Hey that's my name, gold plated on the wall, I didn't know I had been awarded :bgdance:
Even better, monday you will get your new suit with very long sleeves. :fool:
:cloud9: should have warned you.....WW is expert at finding personalized downloads, LOL.....
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 11, 2010, 12:03:23 AM
Even better, monday you will get your new suit with very long sleeves. :fool:
Are you prophesying a pay rise :happy3:
It's a white padded suit.
The sleeves buckle in the back.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on July 11, 2010, 12:14:03 AM
It's a white padded suit.
The sleeves buckle in the back.
You got it :thumbsup:
Gee a straight jacket because of acronymic repition of piffle, I'd hate to step on your toes.
So much for my pay rise :sigh:
:cloud9: They're just joshing you TT.....that means you're one of us hairy tics :girlheart:
:cloud9: Two more disturbing things to pray about....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zEC-jcSQ10&sns=fb
http://www.redstate.com/gman2008/2010/06/08/obama-adviser-says-sharia-law-misunderstood/
About the last link: Who's worse? The enemy or the traitor?
:cloud9: :dontknow:
:sigh: Another link, about health concerns in the gulf being covered up.....
http://www.examiner.com/x-10438-Human-Rights-Examiner~y2010m7d10-Exclusive-Censored-Gulf-survival-news-Toxic-exposure-selfhelp-global-aid-also-needed-Dr-Sircus
:sigh: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcN20jOIICM
OBAMA TELLS AMERICA - "Serve Satan!" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-TMKUea87E&feature=related)
From his acceptance speech: "let me express" sounds like "serve satan" backwards.
:laughing7:
Yes We Can = Thank You Satan (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqALdkTArqs&feature=related)
Hell of a president :winkgrin:
:sigh: Again, don't know about the validity of it, but if true this is shocking......this is an email reply to someone who read his article.
D and V,
I check the University of Washington "IRIS Wilber
Seismic Monitor" daily for the past few years. It receives its data
from the USGS and presents the information in a better way plus
including some seismograms. I learned in the late 1960s how to tell
the difference between an underground explosion and a natural
earthquake at the time when the University of Upsala Sweden
monitored all the Soviet, British, French and American tests. The
normal earthquake has a bell graph shape and an underground
explosion is like a heartbeat on an EKG monitor, a sudden spike.
On the IRIS site there is a purple dot indicating an earthquake in
the Gulf of Mexico near the BP blowout, during the past five years.
I took the approximate longitude and latitude and plugged them into
the USGS search engine and received one result for August 19 2009,
5.0 Richter, 10 kilometres depth. There are another four similar
purple dots around the Gulf. This is an area not prone to
earthquakes. It appears there are five possible sites where
blowouts could happen in the Gulf.
The use of nukes in deep well petroleum exploration was developed
by the Soviets in Siberia in the 1960s. They have done similar work
for the Cubans, Venezuela, Brazil, China, Vietnam and India. The
information on "Abiotic" petroleum was written by Dave McGowan on
his website http://davesweb. cnchost.com/ . Petroleum is not "Fossil
Fuel", the Russians proved it, but western oil companies are still
following the lie of limited supplies or the theory of "Peak Oil".
There is enough petroleum now in development that we should be
buying gasoline for 25 cents per gallon or 6 cents per litre.
BP rushed to develop this well ahead of Cuba, Venezuela and Brazil
in order to maximize profits before the a glut of oil hits the
marketplace and crashes the price.
I have been writing about the explosions of deep nukes since
November 2008 and have place articles on www.educate-
yourself.org/ cn . Click on ZS Livingstone link in the banner at the
top of the page.
There is an economic war being waged between oil producing nations
and multi-national oil companies. During the last two years the
western companies have rushed to catch up to Brazil, Russia, India
and China Bloc (BRIC) in developing deep oil. It is like the Cold
War resuming. It is a war propelled by greed.
The only way this can end is with the development of Over Unity
Energy sources and the sequestering of petroleum indefinitely. If
the 200 plus undersea wells are developed by redrilling into the
fracture zones of the nuclear explosions such as in the Gulf of
Mexico there will be blowouts in all the oceans.
Having first written about this nineteen months ago, you are the
first to ask me for the source of information. I did most of the
research but I believe there are thousands of seismologists who
have been scared into silence by their leaders. US seismologists
are no longer able to publish their work without approval from the
Dept. of Homeland Security. No one is receiving permission to
publish. Possibly no one is asking such is the fear within academic
circles.
I believe most are not asking because it is too much of a "leap" to
accept that the nations of the world are nuking the depths of the
crust for oil. The blowout in the Gulf of Mexico is a disclosure
but not a full disclosure. A nuke caused the problem, a second nuke
in the same fracture might make the problem worse.
[Various countries have set off over 2000 combined nuclear blasts
since Hiroshima/Nagasaki. There have been scores recently
initiated by big oil alone. As I have been saying for years, we are
not running out of oil, it's the method and nature of it's use that
is the problem and the associated greed and avarice that goes with
it. R.]
God says I will make good out of evil.
Out of this global warning, renewables propoganda, we birth new technolgies which prevent using oil. Even though oil is so and so, it pollutes the atmosphere, creating congested cities and towns. Reneables put an end to the smog.
It'll be a sad day for men though, when they stop producing motor engines :sigh:
I think I'll change my mind, we need oil power not renewables :grin:
TT,
Oil is a renewable... (Abiotic)
Discovery of Hydrothermal vents
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D69hGvCsWgA
Marshall Hydrothermal Recovery System--Free energy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6-_UTU_bJ0
Is this what BP drilled into and we are not being told? Don't let anyone tell you energy is scarce. It is not. Nor does it need to be expensive, rationed, or polluting. Hydrothermal vents-- "The Holy Grail of renewables."
Our God is a God of abundance.
John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
:cloud9: Interesting.... :thumbsup:
The well seems to be succesfully capped.
:cloud9: We'll see....I have my doubts that the gulf problem is solved.
Oil spil fly over: http://worthreading.ning.com/video/leaked-videos-purported-to-be?xg_source=msg_mes_network
Hubble picture of earth after stopping the spil.
(http://media.nu.nl/m/m1fzjgbaauy7.jpg)
:cloud9: Read the posts under that link above......finally someone sees the huge multi-national corporations are what need to be dealt with and disolved. :thumbsup:
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 19, 2010, 10:39:56 AM
Hubble picture of earth after stopping the spil.
(http://media.nu.nl/m/m1fzjgbaauy7.jpg)
Well God did say he would bless us with oil and corn plentifull!
The problem us we must repent. It looks like God gave us our hearts desires, filled us with oil, just like he filled the israelis with Meat beyond, in the desert.
Other countries join Mexico in Arizona case
PHOENIX - Seven other Latin American countries want to join Mexico in going to court in the United States to support a lawsuit challenging Arizona's immigration enforcement law.
Bolivia, Colombia, El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Paraguay and Peru filed separate but nearly identical motions to join Mexico's legal brief supporting the lawsuit filed by U.S. civil rights and other advocacy groups.
http://ktar.com/?nid=6&sid=1316071
:cloud9: The sheer insanity of this seems lost on a lot of these people. :fool:
How about we just decide that we should sue Canada because they won't let our citizens come up there en masse? Wonder what their response would be? :mrflo: :pointlaugh:
But I forgot, our President is in agreement with foreign nationals on this subject, so it must be ok. :omg: BAD, BAD Arizona, you've been very, very bad. :spank:
It's an incredible legacy to leave our children and grandchildren, isn't it? :sigh:
The irony is that Arizona is just saying they will enforce the federal law.
But this administration [and the last] does not want to enforce the federal law.
What easier way to bring about the North American Union, or whatever crazy new govt they have in store, than open the borders and allow illegals to come in and have their babies who then become automatic citizens.
They are just waiting until there is no turning back.
But, Americans have allowed this for decades! And, meanwhile, we have also allowed the cognitive dissonance of things like the Patriot act which take away our civil liberties because God only knows who is pouring over the open borders. Why didn't we secure our borders after 911? Because 'they' didn't want them secured.
IMMIGRATION BY THE NUMBERS--PART ONE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qwsrt2tlzcU
TOP SECRET AMERICA
What started as a temporary fix in response to the 9/11 terrorist attacks has turned into a dependency that calls into question whether the federal workforce includes too many people obligated to shareholders rather than the public interest -- and whether the government is still in control of its most sensitive activities.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/
How does Homeland Security fit in this or is it just a joke?
Quote from: SQ on July 21, 2010, 06:34:07 AM
How does Homeland Security fit in this or is it just a joke?
As far as I can tell, they are just spying on us. Maybe they are letting people pour over the borders so they will have someone interesting to spy on? :laughing7:
They are as responsible as anyone for securing our borders but it seems they won't return phone calls from the Governor of Arizona.
But they sure are getting good at strip searching little old ladies in airports with their new xray machine which if we had anything other than a brain dead population would never be allowed IMO. :sigh:
Let's see, the last plane bomber had an arab name, was from an arab country, had no passport, was flying one way, was on a no fly list, was between the ages of 18 and 30, had been flagged by his own father--oh and he was allowed to board the plane anyways! [Caught by an alert passenger who smelled smoke, though.] But thanks to him, American women and children get strip searched.
Thats exactly what I thought Molly, when I left one state to come to another I applied for a new drivers license the license branch gave me a rough time, I asked them why they were giving me such a hard time after having to come back three times with another document each time, they said homeland security, heck I am practically albino I really felt harrased while the Mexicans walked in got picture snapped and had their license with a snap.
I don't get it, people in high places are turning our country over to foreigners.
Whats wrong with passports?
PS and applications for citizenship.
My goodness, it's almost as if they are acting as agents-of-a-foreign-government. I'm shocked and surprised! :mshock:
No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States.
--US Constitution, Article II
Quote from: SQ on July 21, 2010, 07:33:35 AM
Thats exactly what I thought Molly, when I left one state to come to another I applied for a new drivers license the license branch gave me a rough time, I asked them why they were giving me such a hard time after having to come back three times with another document each time, they said homeland security, heck I am practically albino I really felt harrased while the Mexicans walked in got picture snapped and had their license with a snap.
I don't get it, people in high places are turning our country over to foreigners.
Whats wrong with passports?
Sounds very familiar.... next step is that you get degraded to second rate citizen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d65gdWR1MQM&playnext_from=TL&videos=yejR5t0gqtI&feature=recentf%20%3C (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d65gdWR1MQM&playnext_from=TL&videos=yejR5t0gqtI&feature=recentf%20%3C)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d65gdWR1MQM&playnext_from=TL&videos=yejR5t0gqtI&feature=recentf%20%3E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d65gdWR1MQM&playnext_from=TL&videos=yejR5t0gqtI&feature=recentf%20%3E)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_115110&v=UjzkauSqz3Y&feature=iv (http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_115110&v=UjzkauSqz3Y&feature=iv)
ww,
1) if you notice the stuff coming out of the pipe in that first video--it is a brownish red color. Oil is not brownish red. Yet, that is, the stuff flowing on the ocean surface is, the 'tar balls' washing up to shore are, the 'oil covered' birds are all covered with this sticky gooey mess of brownish red substance. What is that?
2) They have shut down the first amendment, not allowing flyovers of the area, not allowing media pictures or questions of workers--why?
3)Everyone acts like BP is in the driver's seat here and it's all BP's fault that supertankers are not brought in, that skimmers are not brought in, that oil cannot be kept from the beaches and marshes, that berms cannot be built, that oil is getting plowed under on beaches and covered with trucked in sand, that toxic corexit continues to be dumped into the gulf and over land in the millions of gallons. Who died and made BP king of the world?
4)They say that BP refuses to release the mud samples from drilling--so how do we even know how deep BP drilled or what they drilled into? And, again, how can they refuse to release this information, just like they refuse to allow proper and independent analysis of how much oil is being released and from where? The Russians have been drilling at these depths for 4 decades.
5)The video says that an EMP event occurred per the witnesses, knocking out all electrical connections. A similar event happened during 911, knocking out all cell phones all over Manhatten, as well as the first responder communications radios. Why isn't someone investigating this?
6)Why is BP still allowed to be in charge of this disaster?
7)That hole in the top of the heliport looks very much like the holes in top of the wtc buildings that remained standing. There are a very few pictures available of this because they didn't allow pictures or flyovers for that event, either. In fact, one photographer had to flee to south america with his pictures and was being hunted down by homeland security last I heard.
Really, I don't think all of this can be accounted to incompetence. In fact, it shows a high degree of competence in obfuscation of the facts and amelioration of the catastrophic fallout of this event, even while it is ongoing, by both the government and BP. If they wanted it to get as bad as possible, they couldn't do a better job.
7) Right now, so much information is controlled and hidden, that they could do almost anything in the Gulf and say oops BP did it, and nobody would be the wiser. If a tidal wave happened tomorrow, I would completely believe it was man-made. As it is, I believe the whole thing is made up. I don't know what other conclusion can be drawn given the strange behaviors of all parties involved and the total lack of concern for polluting the oceans of the world. Hey Jude...
:cloud9: Received this in an email this morning......
Governors of 35 states have already filed suit against the Federal Government for imposing unlawful burdens upon them. It only takes 38 (~ of the 50) States to convene a Constitutional Convention.
Really important! Hope you all do it!
This will take less than thirty seconds to read. If you agree, please pass it on.
An idea whose time has come
For too long we have been too complacent about the workings of Congress. Many citizens had no idea that members of Congress could retire with the same pay after only one term, that they didn't pay into Social Security, that they specifically exempted themselves from many of the laws they have passed (such as being exempt from any fear of prosecution for sexual harassment) while ordinary citizens must live under those laws. The latest is to exempt themselves from the Healthcare Reform that is being considered...in all of its forms. Somehow, that doesn't seem logical. We do not have an elite that is above the law. I truly don't care if they are Democrat, Republican, Independent or whatever. The self-serving must stop. This is a good way to do that. It is an idea whose time has come.
Have each person contact a minimum of twenty people on their Address list; in turn ask each of those to do likewise.
In three days, most people in The United States of America will have the message. This is one proposal that really should be passed around.
Proposed 28th Amendment to the United States Constitution
"Congress shall make no law that applies to the citizens of the United Statesthat does not apply equally to the Senators and/or Representatives; and, Congress shall make no law that applies to the Senators and/or Representatives that does not apply equally to the citizens of the United States ."
You are one of my 20.
"In God We Trust"
Please pray for the USA .
All things are possible through the Lord.
Quote from: Molly on July 21, 2010, 02:45:05 PM
ww,
1) if you notice the stuff coming out of the pipe in that first video--it is a brownish red color. Oil is not brownish red. Yet, that is, the stuff flowing on the ocean surface is, the 'tar balls' washing up to shore are, the 'oil covered' birds are all covered with this sticky gooey mess of brownish red substance. What is that?
Firstly I think there are various types/grade of oil. Slightly differebt color? Secondly you only see the true color of things when the light that shines on it is white. But what if the lights are not white but a bit yellowish? The water has all kind of stuff in it that acts as a filter. Compression artifacts of the movie. All those things do affect the color you see. Take a look at 0:58. A the sea floor is almost primary green. I would expect beige. So lets assume the water acts as a green filter.
When you overlay the color of oil with a green filter; what's the color you get? Is is rust-brown.
It's a also a matter of color setting on out monitors. For me the clouds look like you blow away a handfull of sanded rust.
Quote2) They have shut down the first amendment, not allowing flyovers of the area, not allowing media pictures questions of workers--why?
Personally I think because they are Americans :winkgrin: But because you don't agree with that an alternative view. Oil is only half what's flowing out. Large quantities methane (hydrates) can cause Bermuda triangle 'events'. Plus certainly a coverup.
Quote3)Everyone acts like BP is in the driver's seat here and it's all BP's fault that supertankers are not brought in, that skimmers are not brought in, that oil cannot be kept from the beaches and marshes, that berms cannot be built, that oil is getting plowed under on beaches and covered with trucked in sand, that toxic corexit continues to be dumped into the gulf and over land in the millions of gallons. Who died and made BP king of the world?
Open your Book at Genesis just after eating from the tree. "But the snake said..." -> shifting blame.
(http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/hsc1471l.jpg)(http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/msi/lowres/msin60l.jpg)
Quote4)They say that BP refuses to release the mud samples from drilling--so how do we even know how deep BP drilled or what they drilled into? And, again, how can they refuse to release this information, just like they refuse to allow proper and independent analysis of how much oil is being released and from where? The Russians have been drilling at these depths for 4 decades.
Then just ask the 25% partner of BP (BP owns 75%)
Not to mention Halliburton. A big player. I'm sure the do know more than just the coordinates where they have to inject their cement.
Quote5)The video says that an EMP event occurred per the witnesses, knocking out all electrical connections. A similar event happened during 911, knocking out all cell phones all over Manhatten, as well as the first responder communications radios. Why isn't someone investigating this?
The dead know nothing? Just like the fisherman that commited suicide.
6)Why is BP still allowed to be in charge of this disaster?You know BP hired 50 guards. It seem they keep scaring away the Navy Seals...
Seriously. For me there are only two options. Obama can't handle the problem and is just shifting blame.
Or BP is the scapegoat for a lucrative operation.
Quote7)That hole in the top of the heliport looks very much like the holes in top of the wtc buildings that remained standing. There are a very few pictures available of this because they didn't allow pictures or flyovers for that event, either. In fact, one photographer had to flee to south america with his pictures and was being hunted down by homeland security last I heard
I never saw those pictures. Or even heard about it. So: no comment.
QuoteReally, I don't think all of this can be accounted to incompetence. In fact, it shows a high degree of competence in obfuscation of the facts and amelioration of the catastrophic fallout of this event, even while it is ongoing, by both the government and BP. If they wanted it to get as bad as possible, they couldn't do a better job.
There will be change.... I'm sure this even will get it's own Patriot Act.
Monetary gain for some. Political edge for others (or the same)
Quote7) Right now, so much information is controlled and hidden, that they could do almost anything in the Gulf and say oops BP did it, and nobody would be the wiser. If a tidal wave happened tomorrow, I would completely believe it was man-made. As it is, I believe the whole thing is made up. I don't know what other conclusion can be drawn given the strange behaviors of all parties involved and the total lack of concern for polluting the oceans of the world.
BP has started looking into selling assets. My guess is that some Goldman Sachs buddies get those assets for a bargain price. The part of the company that isn't sold goes bankrupt. The clean of will be paid by Molly an Joe Plumber :winkgrin:
Quote from: Cardinal on July 21, 2010, 03:41:40 PMThe self-serving must stop. This is a good way to do that.
Do you have enough funds to hire a T800 ? :icon_jokercolor:
Legal ways only work if the legal system isn't corrupt or robbed of it's power.
Bubble trouble #1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPKFoj7sPds&feature=related)
Bubble trouble #2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNFoWf011Vs&feature=related)
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 21, 2010, 05:28:03 PM
Bubble trouble #1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPKFoj7sPds&feature=related)
Bubble trouble #2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNFoWf011Vs&feature=related)
Phooey on that. I rebuke these lies. A perfect storm that just happens to wipe out all the red states and take down the American economy in one millesecond? That's just too convenient for those who want their new world order and the population of the world reduced to 500 million.
That goop in these videos is brownish red. Why doesn't one of our worthy scientists test that so-called oil and tell us what is in it? Tell us what type of oil it is and from what depths? You think they can't do this? What is in that goop besides toxic corexit?
Oh, but they are cleaning it up as fast as they cleaned up the world trade center debris and carting it away to secret dump sites protected by police.
And they are protecting the beaches with armed guards.
And we are supposed to believe that BP just made one idiot mistake after another that ends up wiping out the United States and probably all of Europe, too? I don't think so. The Russians have been drilling at these depths for 4 decades. It's been kept secret because no one wanted us to know that oil is as plentiful as water.
This is a crime scene. Send in the detectives!
Quote from: Molly on July 21, 2010, 05:49:43 PMThat goop in these videos is brownish red.
Did you read my reply to that?
QuoteWhy doesn't one of our worthy scientists test that so-called oil and tell us what is in it?
The scientist in one of the two links said a ther is a lot of sand in the oil.
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 21, 2010, 06:14:54 PM
Quote from: Molly on July 21, 2010, 05:49:43 PMThat goop in these videos is brownish red.
Did you read my reply to that?
Yes, you said different types of oil--whatever that means, --I've never heard of reddish brown oil And you said lighting and camera effects--but all the oil in the video you just gave is reddish brown--on the beaches, on the birds, on the surface of the water --in all lights with different cameras. Take a look at the exxon valdez pictures and tell me where it shows reddish brown oil. And we have eye witness reports of the color--the sea turning blood red--remember? Let's make it look just like the book of Revelation--the Christians will just love that.
QuoteWhy doesn't one of our worthy scientists test that so-called oil and tell us what is in it?
QuoteThe scientist in one of the two links said a ther is a lot of sand in the oil.
sand in the oil? Man, I could tell you that. I want to know what depths it comes from, what percentage oil it is, if it is even oil or something else altogether, etc
This whole thing stinks. You think even Hey Jude would be laughing and dancing and singing and frolicking in Maine and eating coconut ice cream if he knew something catastrophic could happen any minute in the Gulf? Well, maybe HE would, but there has to be someone out there who would not and would do something about it. They are doing nothing about it. There would be plenty of scientists standing in main street sounding the alarm.
But, if we are led to believe that disaster could happen and then it does...well there are all sorts of man made ways to create an explosion and a tsunami and a toxic environment, and that is where I would start looking for the culprit--MAN.
:cloud9: I saw a video this week on youtube where they took water samples and sand samples from about 18" deep, and it was extremely toxic. The water where kids were swimming, actually exploded in the test beaker when they tried to test it.
Quote from: Molly on July 21, 2010, 07:02:36 PM
sand in the oil? Man, I could tell you that. I want to know what depths it comes from, what percentage oil it is, if it is even oil or something else altogether, etc
On the beaches could be the oil with corexit in it. Unless there are hidden injection pipes somewhere the oil that you see on the video's ia all natural without corexit. If the soil is eroding away and even the pipe and wellhead the cement is probebly already gone. So that would make what you see of natural color. (not saying pure oil)
Was the Exxon Valdez oil really crude oil? Or had it for example the sand filtered out?
QuoteThis whole thing stinks.
I'm sure of that.
QuoteThey are doing nothing about it. There would be plenty of scientists standing in main street sounding the alarm.
I'm still conviced capping the well isn't that hard. But I think BP doesn't just wanst to capp the well; they also want to keep it production.
Ok Molly, why you think the oil that flows out of the well is reddish of color?
Quote from: Cardinal on July 21, 2010, 07:51:42 PM
:cloud9: I saw a video this week on youtube where they took water samples and sand samples from about 18" deep, and it was extremely toxic. The water where kids were swimming, actually exploded in the test beaker when they tried to test it.
It would be nice to know what the toxins are?
Oil? Corexit? A yet unmentioned product X?
What you see on the shores/water is just a small part of the popution. The bulk is under water and has started its travel aroud the world because it's alreday in the ocean. Most oil never surfaces until it reache Europe.
(Molly I will take a sample for you :laughing7:)
Quote from: wwOk Molly, why you think the oil that flows out of the well is reddish of color?
I don't think it's oil and I don't think it's coming out of a 25,000 foot deep oil well. Not that I know that much about oil, but I know it's black.
Exxon Valdez was carrying unrefined Alaskan crude oil and it was black.
Reddish brown sounds like the dirt in Georgia lol. Maybe in the Gulf too--I've never been there.
Check this out--
Huge Asphalt Volcanoes Discovered Off California Ancient eruptions created "extensive hard bottoms" for sea life to colonize.
Strange undersea domes spotted off the California coast are extinct "asphalt volcanoes" made from a mixture of hardened crude oil and marine fossils, according to a new study.
First discovered in 2007, the seven mounds sit about 700 feet (213 meters) beneath the ocean, roughly 10 miles (16 kilometers) offshore from Santa Barbara (see map).
Recent explorations using
a submarine robot named Alvin have revealed that the largest dome is about as wide as two football fields laid side by side and is as tall as a six-story building. (Related: "Iceland Volcano Creates 27-Story 'Mountain.'")
The domes are made mostly of petroleum, or crude oil—essentially the same stuff used to pave highways and parking lots and the raw material for gasoline.
"If I could convert all the asphalt in the largest volcano to gasoline, it would be enough to fuel my Honda Civic for about half a billion miles," said lead study author David Valentine, an earth scientist at the University of California, Santa Barbara.
But there's little point in harvesting the asphalt mounds for fuel, he added, as
"the quality of the material is very poor. ... It's not worth something like light sweet crude."
Analysis of samples taken from the mounds suggests they required several decades or even centuries to build up to their current size, and that the undersea volcanoes last erupted about 35,000 years ago.
"To me, as an oil-spill chemist, this was very exciting," study co-author Christopher Reddy, director of the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution in Massachusetts, said in a statement. "I got to find out what oil looks like after ... 35,000 years."
Asphalt Eruptions Spurred Dead Zone, Oil Slick
The processes that drives asphalt volcanoes is not well understood, Valentine said. Scientists know only that such eruptions occur where natural oil and gas deposits are leaking from Earth's interior.
The team thinks the Santa Barbara asphalt volcanoes could account for a mysterious spike in ocean methane known to have occurred around 35,000 years ago.
"Methane is typically formed along with petroleum, so they are naturally associated," Valentine said. In addition,
methane gas is still bubbling up in the vicinity of the asphalt mounds, even though the petroleum flow stopped long ago.
Eruptions of the California mounds might have once spewed enough methane to dramatically boost populations of methane-eating marine bacteria.
These bacteria depleted the water's oxygen, creating a giant
"dead zone" in the Santa Barbara basin that was lethal to most marine life. (See "World's Largest Dead Zone Suffocating Sea.")
To make matters worse, the eruptions were also likely accompanied by enormous oil slicks on the ocean surface, as lighter petroleum molecules floated to top of the water column. (Related: "Undersea Volcano Erupts, May Form New Island.")
The asphalt domes themselves are made from heavier petroleum molecules that form when crude oil has not had enough time to "bake" in the Earth interior, Valentine said. As a result,
the petroleum was more viscous than usual.This heavier form of petroleum remained on the seafloor, congealing into swaying pillars of crude oil that gradually became polluted with microscopic creatures, sand, and other pieces of debris floating in the water.
"When we take that material and dissolve away all the oil ... about 20 percent of the mass is accumulated junk," Valentine explained. "As those things accumulated in the [petroleum], it became heavier and settled back down to the seafloor."
Over time, the successive layering of hardened asphalt created the giant mounds, which are described in the current issue of the journal Nature Geoscience.
Asphalt Domes Younger Than Thought?
Underwater asphalt mounds like those discovered off Santa Barbara are known elsewhere around the world, but they are relatively rare, Tom Lorenson, a geologist with the U.S. Geological Survey who was not involved in the study, said in an email.
Some, like ones recently discovered in the Gulf of Mexico, are even active. "I think there are [also] some in the Caspian Sea, the eastern Mediterranean Sea, and perhaps the Persian Gulf," Lorenson said.
Lorenson isn't convinced that the age estimates for the Santa Barbara mounds are correct, because their surfaces are relatively bare. The surfaces of other known mounds are heavily colonized by marine life, which suggests that the newfound domes are younger than thought.
However, it may be difficult to date asphalt mounds based on the abundance of sea life on their surfaces, because variations in petroleum composition could affect their habitability, said Ian MacDonald, a biological oceanographer at Florida State University, who also did not participate in the research.
One thing is certain: Asphalt mounds in general help create environments for marine life that might not otherwise exist.
"Processes that produce hard substrates in the deep ocean are rare. ... Generally speaking, the deep ocean is a muddy place," MacDonald said.
"I think it's really cool that there's this other process that we didn't really know about before that, at least in some places, is making pretty extensive hard bottoms for animals to colonize."
--National Geographic Daily News
Where is Alvin when we need him? Is he working for BP now? :gangel:
All I know is, the govt and BP are running around saying, 'We don' know nothin' about birthin' babies'. I'm not buying it.
*REPEAT* The Russians have been drilling this deep for 4 decades.
Quote from: Molly on July 21, 2010, 10:54:15 PM
Quote from: wwOk Molly, why you think the oil that flows out of the well is reddish of color?
I don't think it's oil and I don't think it's coming out of a 25,000 foot deep oil well. Not that I know that much about oil, but I know it's black.
Do you think the reddish color comes from something natural other than oil? Or do you think manmade stuff is injected out of view of the camera?
QuoteExxon Valdez was carrying unrefined Alaskan crude oil and it was black.
Reddish brown sounds like the dirt in Georgia lol. Maybe in the Gulf too--I've never been there.
So possible it sand.
Then depending on the depth it comes from the seafloor will cave in.
QuoteWhere is Alvin when we need him? Is he working for BP now? :gangel:
He's chipping of tar samples for lab research :happy3:
QuoteAll I know is, the govt and BP are running around saying, 'We don' know nothin' about birthin' babies'. I'm not buying it
But still you are taxed for it.
Quote*REPEAT* The Russians have been drilling this deep for 4 decades.
On land.
BTW Russians are communists Molly :laughing7:
Quote from: wwOn land.
BTW Russians are communists Molly
Yes, on land, but the point is there is a lot of knowledge of what pressures you will find at those depths, and what equipment can or cannot control these pressures--so I do not for a moment believe that BP was just blindly drilling and then --oops--We just destroyed the world-- Sorry! Give these people some credit for knowing what they are doing.
QuoteDo you think the reddish color comes from something natural other than oil? Or do you think manmade stuff is injected out of view of the camera?
I'm not sure but it hardly matters. We're watching a movie--a few special effects is nothing for them. To me, it looks like red Georgia clay. What does an oil volcano spew out? I'm sure there's some oil in there but also dirt and gases.
To take the huge positions Goldman took both short and long--you have to know what is going to happen. Once again, they are playing their hand for the whole table to read, and no one's looking.
But the biggest clue of all, as with 911, the dog didn't bark...
Quote from: Molly on July 22, 2010, 12:04:48 AMDo you think the reddish color comes from something natural other than oil? Or do you think manmade stuff is injected out of view of the camera?
I'm not sure but it hardly matters.[/quote]I think it can matter a lot. Harmless red sand or manmade chemicals/poison.
I think it matter a lot.
QuoteWe're watching a movie--a few special effects is nothing for them. To me, it looks like red Georgia clay. What does an oil volcano spew out? I'm sure there's some oil in there but also dirt and gases.
Dirt and gasses. Agreed. There is likely more methan than oil in that well. It was a methan bubble that cause the explosion.
QuoteTo take the huge positions Goldman took both short and long--
I love butterflies :laughing7:
QuoteBut the biggest clue of all, as with 911, the dog didn't bark...
The dog is barking very loudly al over the world. But not to the thiefs.
QuoteI'm not sure but it hardly matters.
QuoteI think it can matter a lot. Harmless red sand or manmade chemicals/poison.
I think it matter a lot.
Yes, but it only matters in that the poison was added after the fact.
Censored Gulf news: People bleeding internally, millions poisoned says 'EPA whistleblower' July 21, 9:44 AM
\we have dolphins that are hemorrhaging. People who work near it are hemorrhaging internally. And that's what dispersants are supposed to do... Congressman Markey and Nadler, as well as Senator Mikulski, have been heroes... Mark Kaufman, EPA whistleblower, Democracy Now!Poisoning millions of people
In its report, EPA Whistleblower Accuses Agency of Covering Up Effects of Dispersant in BP Oil Spill Cleanup, Democracy Now! states that "many lawmakers and advocacy groups say the Obama administration is not being candid about the lethal effects of dispersants," so Amy Goodman interviewed Hugh Kaufman, a senior policy analyst at the EPA's Office of Solid Waste and Emergency Response and a leading critic of the decision to use Corexit" who disclosed how the officials are lying about many things related to the catastrophe poisoning "millions of people." (Listen: Real Audio Strea or MP3 Download)
The rushed transcript includes Kaufman saying, "And I think the media now has to follow the money, just as they did in Watergate, and tell the American people who's getting money for poisoning the millions of people in the Gulf. (Emphasis added)
"While concerns over the impact of chemical dispersants continue to grow, Gulf Coast residents are outraged by a recent announcement that the $20 billion government-administered claim fund will subtract money cleanup workers earn by working for the cleanup effort from any future claims.
The "Vessels of Opportunity" program has employed hundreds of Gulf Coast out of work people because of the spill which Kaufman says is viewed as yest another way "to limit the number of lawsuits against BP."
"And the government—both EPA, NOAA, etc.—have been sock puppets for BP in this cover-up. (Emphasis added)
Kaufman concurs with MSNBC's report last week, that "sole purpose in the Gulf for dispersants is to keep a cover-up going for BP to try to hide the volume of oil that has been released and save them hundreds of millions, if not billions, of dollars of fines... not to protect the public health or environment. Quite the opposite.."
He says to follow the money, and that leads to individuals in the Obama Administration, naming Mr. Geithner, Mr. Summers with close ties to Larry Fink who owns BlackRock that owns most BP shares.
He commented on the children being poisoned:
"...you know, when you're on the sand with your children and they dig, and there's a little water?—they documented there was over 200 parts per million of oil waste in the water, and it's not noticeable to the human eye... On top of it, the contamination in one of the samples was so high that when they put the solvent in, as a first step in identifying how much oil may be in the water, the thing blew up, just as he said, probably because there was too much Corexit in that particular sample."
When Goodman asked Kaufman to comment on the similarities between the Ground Zero of the Gulf catastrophe and what happened at Ground Zero of 911, he explained that he did the ombudsman investigation on Ground Zero, "where EPA made false statements about the safety of the air" ... since proven to be false.
Red herring: No more tests needed. Corexit known to be dangerous.
"The largest ingredient in Corexit is oil. But there are other materials. And when the ingredients are mixed with oil, the combination of Corexit or any dispersant and oil is more toxic than the oil itself. But EPA has all that information.
"That's a red herring issue being raised, that we have to somehow know more information. When you look at the label and you look at the toxicity sheets that come with it, the public knows enough to know that it's very dangerous. The National Academy of Science has done work on it. Toxicologists from Exxon that developed it have published on it.
"So, we know enough to know that it's very dangerous, and to say that we just have to know more about it is a red herring issue. We know plenty. It's very dangerous."
"[T]he media now has to follow the money, just as they did in Watergate, and tell the American people who's getting money for poisoning the millions of people in the Gulf."
No mention was made by the whistleblower about military involvement in this operation, nor that the DoD has been in bed with EPA, testing disperants on unwitting individuals and large populations for decades.
With all eyes on big bad BP, could it be the real red herring?
Photo: Democracy Now!
http://www.examiner.com/x-10438-Human-Rights-Examiner~y2010m7d21-Censored-Gulf-news-Whistleblower-EPA-hiding-gassed-people-bleeding-internally
Lawrence Solomon, Financial Post
Some are attuned to the possibility of looming catastrophe and know how to head it off. Others are unprepared for risk and even unable to get their priorities straight when risk turns to reality.
The Dutch fall into the first group. Three days after the BP oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico began on April 20, the Netherlands offered the U.S. government ships equipped to handle a major spill, one much larger than the BP spill that then appeared to be underway. "Our system can handle 400 cubic metres per hour," Weird Koops, the chairman of Spill Response Group Holland, told Radio Netherlands Worldwide, giving each Dutch ship more cleanup capacity than all the ships that the U.S. was then employing in the Gulf to combat the spill.
To protect against the possibility that its equipment wouldn't capture all the oil gushing from the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico,
(WhiteWings: So the system would have captured most directly from the wellhead. The other skimmers could have sucked up the oil that wasn't captured by the system. In fact I think just that one ship and nothing elese would have given a far better result as what we see right now...)
the Dutch also offered to prepare for the U.S. a contingency plan to protect Louisiana's marshlands with sand barriers. One Dutch research institute specializing in deltas, coastal areas and rivers, in fact, developed a strategy to begin building 60-mile-long sand dikes within three weeks.
The Dutch know how to handle maritime emergencies. In the event of an oil spill, The Netherlands government, which owns its own ships and high-tech skimmers, gives an oil company 12 hours to demonstrate it has the spill in hand. If the company shows signs of unpreparedness, the government dispatches its own ships at the oil company's expense. "If there's a country that's experienced with building dikes and managing water, it's the Netherlands," says Geert Visser, the Dutch consul general in Houston.
In sharp contrast to Dutch preparedness before the fact and the Dutch instinct to dive into action once an emergency becomes apparent, witness the American reaction to the Dutch offer of help. The U.S. government responded with "Thanks but no thanks," remarked Visser, despite BP's desire to bring in the Dutch equipment and despite the no-lose nature of the Dutch offer –the Dutch government offered the use of its equipment at no charge. Even after the U.S. refused, the Dutch kept their vessels on standby, hoping the Americans would come round. By May 5, the U.S. had not come round. To the contrary, the U.S. had also turned down offers of help from 12 other governments, most of them with superior expertise and equipment –unlike the U.S., Europe has robust fleets of Oil Spill Response Vessels that sail circles around their make-shift U.S. counterparts.
Why does neither the U.S. government nor U.S. energy companies have on hand the cleanup technology available in Europe? Ironically, the superior European technology runs afoul of U.S. environmental rules. The voracious Dutch vessels, for example, continuously suck up vast quantities of oily water, extract most of the oil and then spit overboard vast quantities of nearly oil-free water. Nearly oil-free isn't good enough for the U.S. regulators, who have a standard of 15 parts per million — if water isn't at least 99.9985% pure, it may not be returned to the Gulf of Mexico.
WhiteWings: So because the Dutch isn't perfect they chose not to clean at all. I don't know what the ppm of teh Dutch ships is but I think it's vastly superior to the current ppm of the water...
When ships in U.S. waters take in oil-contaminated water, they are forced to store it. As U.S. Coast Guard Admiral Thad Allen, the official in charge of the clean-up operation, explained in a press briefing on June 11, "We have skimmed, to date, about 18 million gallons of oily water–the oil has to be decanted from that [and] our yield is usually somewhere around 10% or 15% on that." In other words, U.S. ships have mostly been removing water from the Gulf, requiring them to make up to 10 times as many trips to storage facilities where they off-load their oil-water mixture, an approach Koops calls "crazy."
The Americans, overwhelmed by the catastrophic consequences of the BP spill, finally relented and took the Dutch up on their offer — but only partly. Because the U.S. didn't want Dutch ships working the Gulf, the U.S. airlifted the Dutch equipment to the Gulf and then retrofitted it to U.S. vessels. And rather than have experienced Dutch crews immediately operate the oil-skimming equipment, to appease labour unions the U.S. postponed the clean-up operation to allow U.S. crews to be trained.
A catastrophe that could have been averted is now playing out. With oil increasingly reaching the Gulf coast, the emergency construction of sand berns to minimize the damage is imperative. Again, the U.S. government priority is on U.S. jobs, with the Dutch asked to train American workers rather than to build the berns. According to Floris Van Hovell, a spokesman for the Dutch embassy in Washington, Dutch dredging ships could complete the berms in Louisiana twice as fast as the U.S. companies awarded the work. "Given the fact that there is so much oil on a daily basis coming in, you do not have that much time to protect the marshlands," he says, perplexed that the U.S. government could be so focussed on side issues with the entire Gulf Coast hanging in the balance.
Then again, perhaps he should not be all that perplexed at the American tolerance for turning an accident into a catastrophe. When the Exxon Valdez oil tanker accident occurred off the coast of Alaska in 1989, a Dutch team with clean-up equipment flew in to Anchorage airport to offer their help. To their amazement, they were rebuffed and told to go home with their equipment. The Exxon Valdez became the biggest oil spill disaster in U.S. history–until the BP Gulf spill.
- Lawrence Solomon is executive director of Energy Probe and author of The Deniers.
Read more: http://www.financialpost.com/Avertible+catastrophe/3203808/story.html#ixzz0sMX2i4bn
http://www.financialpost.com/Avertible+catastrophe/3203808/story.html
http://cdiver.net/news/avertible-catastrophe/
What's he saying, ww?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HA-Kx6_e3c
Quote from: Molly on July 22, 2010, 08:23:19 AM
What's he saying, ww?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HA-Kx6_e3c
I have to listen later Molly; I have no sound on this PC.
Maybe this Arca video is of use to you. Seems much longer and more detailed. The red CC button transcribes the audio in English subtitles.
Part A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vPonMM7KiA&feature=related)
Part B (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAuU5vQ1SPo&feature=related)
:sigh: It's not about oil, but about what's going on at our border, and the link is too horrible and graphic to post here. But if you want to see what's coming "our" way, go to Glenn Beck's site and look under "Current Events and Politics, Pictures of the Violence Taking Place Along Our Borders", dated 7/20.
And Obama wants to sue Arizona..... :mshock:
Looks like the "Faces of death" series. With pictures from "This is Whitewing dove country." :mblush:
QuoteNotice the "Z" carved on the 3 bodies. That is for "Zetas", former Mexican law enforcement operatives, that deserted en-masse to work for the Drug Cartels for much better pay, after being trained by the Mexican Government and US Law enforcement agencies on weapons and tactics (SWAT like training). They kept their government-issued weapons, of course, and the cartels also provide them with funding, explosives and automatic weapons. Predictably, Obambi sides with Pres. Calderon in blaming licensed gun-dealers in the US of arming the cartels (with automatic weapons they don't have), and pushing for a gun-free America. Now THAT's smart!
Quotei think i might have just figured out what the writing on the glass meant and it has nothing to do with the drug and boarder war...it has to do with the gulf oil spill...i believe. but this is, from what i understand, the glass says; "Para los k Cuidar los golfas" my translation... = "For those of you who care about the Gulf" the only thing i don't get is why they would decapitate people for that reason unless theyare implying that this is where our world is going to end up if things continue as they are. but even that explination doesn't fully make sence. Its just my interpritation of it though.
:cloud9: Another video from the former prime minister of Canada, who mentions a remark made by Clinton about a government inside the government that he had no control over, and UFO's.....hope it comes out, it wouldn't let me copy and paste for some reason....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fu-eo2TZT4
Former Canadian defence minister Paul Hellyer PLEASE SHARE! THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT VIDEOS ON THE WEB ,DOWNLOAD AND UPLOAD!
The Truth is that we live in a Pyramidal system where most of the population is in the bottom and the top always has been ran by the same group of families we have came to a point were we have to decide what kind of future we want for humanity and the planet, its up to YOU to do something about the fraudulent racist xenophobist classicist greedy pollutant system.
please investigate for your self and don't believe blindly everything you see
there are other independent groups trying to show the truth.
www.exopoltik.org
www.DisclosureProject.com
www.Oddisealink.com
www.projectcamelot.com
i have put some more interesting links in my channel
here is another video i have about the lies of the big pharmacist and the FLU HOAX
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-upLYDJviII
and one of the many many many many evidences that got out from the shadow governments
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-upLYD...
thanks for watching ;-)
Please Rate and subscribe for more UFO/ET and Secret government videos Thank you!
Some of the people that support Disclosure and have evidence/experience of the ET/UFO and suppressed technology:
-Dr.Paul Czysz
Professor of
Aeronautical Engineering
-Dr.Carol Rosin
Corporate Mandager
Farchild Induestries
-Prof.RoberJacobs
United States
Air Force(ret.)
-LT.Col,John Williams
United States
Air force
-Lt.Frederick Fox
US NAVY Pilot
-LT Bob Walker
United States
Army
-Codr,Graham Bethune
US NAVY
-Mr.John Maynard
US defence Intelligence
Agency Official
-David Hamilton
US Department of
Energy
-Mr.Don Philips
Design Engineer
Lockheed,CIA,USAF
-Michael Smith
Radar Controller
US Air Force
-Maj.George A.Filler.III
US Air Force
-Dr.Paul LaViolette
BA.MBA,PhD
Quote from: Cardinal on July 22, 2010, 11:58:50 PM
:cloud9: Another video from the former prime minister of Canada, who mentions a remark made by Clinton about a government inside the government that he had no control over, and UFO's.....hope it comes out, it wouldn't let me copy and paste for some reason....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fu-eo2TZT4
They won't tell anyone about it because it is our technology. They keep pretending they won't disclose because the world's population is not ready to learn we are visited by little green men. That's nonsense. People are fascinated by UFO's. They are all over the internet. It's the technology they want to keep from us, not the little green men. There are no little green men. They don't want anyone to know about the technology they have kept hidden for 100 years because the world would change overnight.
What amazes me is that no one understands this.
Quote from: Molly on July 23, 2010, 01:08:04 AMThere are no little green men.
:mshock: Many people on this forum think ET is real! :angel4:
Rerum Novarum
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h24ParnNFpc
Hey Card, plz double check your link...I'm getting Jimmy Kimmel live!
:sigh: Don't know why I can't copy and paste off youtube anymore....I typed in what shows in address bar, but now I can't get it to come up. I clicked Molly's link, watched it, noticed a black screen video to the right called "30 facts about the US", which is what this is.....see if you can get correct addy for me, will you???
k
Is this it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxM92prq2UI
Take the time to listen to this very revealing 21 minute interview.
http://www.kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2010/7/17_Matt_Simmons_files/Matt%20Simmons%207%3A17%3A2010.mp3
And Gulf Oil is NOT Fossil Fuel! It is an Abiotic – A Self Regenerating Compound!
http://usgulfoilspill.com/gulf-oil-spill-videos/gulf-oil-is-not-fossil-fuel-it-is-an-abiotic-self-regenerating-compound/
:cloud9: Yes, they've been hiding the truth of abiotic oil for decades. They had to keep up the illusion of shortage to justify their greed at the gas pumps..... :sigh:
:cloud9: Yes, that's it, Jab.....thanks :thumbsup:
In '07 I had a dream from the Lord in which I was taken to see SIX men in white business shirts and black pants, standing around something, chanting like they were praying at an altar, but when I got close enogh to see in the midst of them, it was like they were counting money into the trillions. I knew they weren't real people, but rather Him showing me a principality that He was getting ready to deal with. The LOVE of money is the root of all evil.....
You combine the information from Molly's link and this one, and you see how they accomplished what they set out to do with this country already. We're just waiting for the last shoe to drop.... :mshock:
Wow. That almost leaves me speechless...
:cloud9: Lord, it just hit me.....He was showing me the HEART of man (6), the love of money (self-gain) is the ROOT of ALL EVIL.....
Now the scripture about not being able to serve God and mammon makes even more sense....
I knew it was like they were WORSHIPING, our heart was made to worship HIM, but Eve (the stony heart) fell thru the love of self gain....
Quote from: jabcat on July 23, 2010, 07:46:19 AM
Wow. That almost leaves me speechless...
:sigh: Me, too......if true, it's stunning......we were overthrown already, it just hasn't played out to where we realized it yet..... :mshock:
Quote from: Cardinal on July 23, 2010, 07:32:48 AM
:sigh: Don't know why I can't copy and paste off youtube anymore....
What part doesn't work? Selecting? Copying? Pasting?
What they are doing in the Gulf with the oil and the corexit amounts to crimes against humanity.
I'm still looking for ten righteous men--I have 7 and counting...I think...
Quote from: Cardinal on July 23, 2010, 07:54:23 AM
Quote from: jabcat on July 23, 2010, 07:46:19 AM
Wow. That almost leaves me speechless...
:sigh: Me, too......if true, it's stunning......we were overthrown already, it just hasn't played out to where we realized it yet..... :mshock:
You are staring into the face of evil now, yes?
I've been looking at it for a long time. It never fails to take my breath away.
The same is true for God's goodness.
Quote from: CardinalIn '07 I had a dream from the Lord in which I was taken to see SIX men in white business shirts and black pants, standing around something, chanting like they were praying at an altar, but when I got close enogh to see in the midst of them, it was like they were counting money into the trillions. I knew they weren't real people, but rather Him showing me a principality that He was getting ready to deal with. The LOVE of money is the root of all evil.....
Was this guy one of them? :laughing7:
[ps I'm sure they do chant at altars...the Bible tells as much...]
Larry Fink's $12 Trillion Shadow
Though few Americans know his name, Larry Fink may be the most powerful man in the post-bailout economy. His giant BlackRock money-management firm controls or monitors more than $12 trillion worldwide—including the balance sheets of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and the toxic A.I.G. and Bear Stearns assets taken over by the U.S. government last year. How did Fink rebound from a humiliating failure to become the financial fulcrum of Washington and Wall Street? Through a series of interviews, the author probes his role in the crisis, his unique risk-assessment system, and the growing concern he inspires.http://www.vanityfair.com/business/features/2010/04/fink-201004
BP selling off assets for $7 billion to help pay for Gulf oil spill
Published: Tuesday, July 20, 2010, 3:53 PM
BP PLC said Tuesday it is selling several major assets to Apache Corp. for $7 billion to help pay the costs from the Gulf of Mexico oil spill.
http://www.nola.com/business/index.ssf/2010/07/bp_to_sell_assets_for_7_billio.html
http://www.apachecorp.com/
Jul 20, 2010 Apache to Offer 21 Million Shares of Common Stock and $1.1 Billion of Mandatory Convertible Preferred Stock
HOUSTON, July 20, 2010 /PRNewswire via COMTEX News Network/ -- Apache Corporation (NYSE: APA) today announced that it is commencing a registered underwritten public offering ...
BP 65% owner of the lease.
Anadarko 25% owner of the lease.
MOEX 10% owner of the lease. Daughter of Mitsui.
Anadarko and Mitsui suspended payments to BP
Why we hear only about BP? 35% is a considerble amount of ownership too.
I wonder where the $7 billion goes too. I think cleanup buddies.
2 days ago I've read an article about US .gov paying $2 billion to help the Gulf region. But now it seems the $2 billion isn't for the people, but the cleaners etc.
So I wouldn't be suprised of this scenario.
1- BP sells as many assets as possible.
2- All payments end somehow in the pockets of their buddies. (doing little for lots of money)
3- The remaining part of BP goes bankrupt.
4- The tax-payer pays for the cleanup.
BP leased Deepwater Horizon owned Transocean (40% owned by Schlumberger)
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/energy/7053715.html
"The e-mails also detail engineers' worries about the well.
"This has been a nightmare well which has everyone all over the place," BP engineer Brian Morel wrote to colleagues discussing possible well design changes.
"This has been a crazy well for sure," agreed BP engineer Mark Hafle in another message.
The committee's letter also questioned BP's decision, detailed in a previous Chronicle story, to use just six devices to center the production casing in the center of the wellbore, instead of the 21 that cementing contractor Halliburton recommended.
Keeping the pipe centered ensures that cement is distributed evenly all around and isn't thinner on one side. The rig only carried six centralizers, and 15 more flown in turned out to be the wrong design.
One engineer noted in an April 15 e-mail that installing the additional centralizers would add 10 hours to the project. Rather than wait for the right type of centralizers, the decision was made to use just the six on hand.
A day later an e-mail from another engineer concluded the lack of centralizers might be a concern: "But, who cares, it's done, end of story, will probably be fine and we'll get a good cement job," the engineer wrote.
BP also decided not to run a final, time-consuming test called a cement bond log in which a device lowered into the well uses sonic signals to determine how well cement has adhered to the pipe.
Oil field services firm Schlumberger had been hired to run such tests but was told early on the morning of the explosion that the test, which would have cost $128,000, wouldn't be needed. The Schlumberger crew left the rig on the next scheduled helicopter flight.
Two other issues
The other two issues committee investigators mentioned were decisions not to remove potentially troublesome drilling debris from the well by circulating drilling mud through it, and not to use a lockdown sleeve earlier in the well completion process to secure the wellhead — the device placed at the top of the well where the production casing meets the seafloor."
Sabotage
http://www.abeldanger.net/2010/07/bp-cement-cat-bond-fraud-schlumberger.html
'BP cement (CAT) bond fraud - Schlumberger - Crown Agents - Extortion of Livery Companies - backdoor to oracle' - Abel Danger
Congressmen suggest BP cost cuts increased blowout risk | Energy | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle
House panel scolds BP in letter
Lawmakers say shortcuts may have led to deadly blowout
By TOM FOWLER HOUSTON CHRONICLE
June 15, 2010, 7:44AM
BP may have cut corners to save money on an oil well one engineer called a "nightmare" and another called "crazy," according to congressional investigators who released dozens of internal company documents on Monday.
In a letter to BP CEO Tony Hayward, the chairmen of the House Energy and Commerce Committee and its investigative subcommittee said their investigation raised "serious questions" about decisions made in the weeks before the deadly April 20 blowout on the drilling rig Deepwater Horizon.
These include decisions on the design of the well, failure to conduct a full battery of tests on the well's cement job and the failure to lock down the wellhead.
The decisions came amid mechanical and geological challenges that put the well behind schedule and over budget.
"Time after time, it appears that BP made decisions that increased the risk of a blowout to save the company time or expense," Committee Chairman Henry Waxman, D-Calif., and investigative subcommittee Chairman Bart Stupak, D-Mich., wrote to Hayward.
"If this is what happened, BP's carelessness and complacency have inflicted a heavy toll on the Gulf, its inhabitants, and the workers on the rig."
The letter may foreshadow the tough questions Hayward will face when he appears before the committee on Thursday. A BP spokesman said it would be inappropriate to comment on the issues in the letter prior to Hayward's testimony. "No doubt they will be raised during the hearing," he said.
Some of the issues were the subjects of previous Houston Chronicle stories about decisions in the days before the disaster.
E-mails cited risks
BP ran a single string of steel pipe from the top of the well just below the sea floor all the way to the oil reservoir more than 13,000 feet below. Called the production casing, this eventually would have carried oil and gas from the reservoir to pipes connecting the wellhead with a production platform.
The very bottom of the production casing was cemented in place, but the design left an unobstructed pathway to the wellhead should the cement fail to block hydrocarbons in the formation, the Chronicle reported earlier.
According to internal e-mails, BP engineers were aware of this risk.
An undated PowerPoint presentation released by the committee said the cement job was "unlikely to be successful" and could thus allow hydrocarbons to reach the wellhead uncontrolled.
But an April 15 document changed the prediction for the cement job, saying it would succeed. It also noted the other method would have added $7 million to $10 million to the cost of completing the well.
Worries about the well
The e-mails also detail engineers' worries about the well.
"This has been a nightmare well which has everyone all over the place," BP engineer Brian Morel wrote to colleagues discussing possible well design changes.
"This has been a crazy well for sure," agreed BP engineer Mark Hafle in another message.
The committee's letter also questioned BP's decision, detailed in a previous Chronicle story, to use just six devices to center the production casing in the center of the wellbore, instead of the 21 that cementing contractor Halliburton recommended.
Keeping the pipe centered ensures that cement is distributed evenly all around and isn't thinner on one side. The rig only carried six centralizers, and 15 more flown in turned out to be the wrong design.
One engineer noted in an April 15 e-mail that installing the additional centralizers would add 10 hours to the project. Rather than wait for the right type of centralizers, the decision was made to use just the six on hand.
A day later an e-mail from another engineer concluded the lack of centralizers might be a concern: "But, who cares, it's done, end of story, will probably be fine and we'll get a good cement job," the engineer wrote.
BP also decided not to run a final, time-consuming test called a cement bond log in which a device lowered into the well uses sonic signals to determine how well cement has adhered to the pipe.
Oil field services firm Schlumberger had been hired to run such tests but was told early on the morning of the explosion that the test, which would have cost $128,000, wouldn't be needed. The Schlumberger crew left the rig on the next scheduled helicopter flight.
Two other issues
The other two issues committee investigators mentioned were decisions not to remove potentially troublesome drilling debris from the well by circulating drilling mud through it, and not to use a lockdown sleeve earlier in the well completion process to secure the wellhead — the device placed at the top of the well where the production casing meets the seafloor.
Well experts have told the Chronicle that if a well head is not locked down it is more vulnerable to pressure of gas rising up from below.
"The common feature of these five decisions is that they posed a trade-off between cost and well safety." the committee said in its letter to Hayward.
tom.fowler@chron.com
Quote from: Molly on July 21, 2010, 10:54:15 PM
Quote from: wwI don't think it's oil and I don't think it's coming out of a 25,000 foot deep oil well. Not that I know that much about oil, but I know it's black.
Exxon Valdez was carrying unrefined Alaskan crude oil and it was black.
Reddish brown sounds like the dirt in Georgia lol. Maybe in the Gulf too--I've never been there
http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/vchembook/513refining.html
Crude oil has many compositions, some is black, thick and tar like, while other crude oils are lighter in color and thinner.
What color is light crude oil and heavy crude oil?
light crude oil is brown and heavy crude oil is black
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-crude-oil.htm
The color can range from pure black or dark brown to greenish or yellowish, depending on the composition.
http://www.epa.gov/oem/content/learning/crude.htm
Fox News: URGENT: The fire alarm system on the Deepwater Horizon was disabled prior to the catastrophic explosion that caused the oil spill disaster in the Gulf of Mexico, rig worker testifies.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/23/report-alarm-gulf-rig-disabled-oil-spill/
Quote from: jabcat on July 23, 2010, 07:57:49 PM
Fox News: URGENT: The fire alarm system on the Deepwater Horizon was disabled prior to the catastrophic explosion that caused the oil spill disaster in the Gulf of Mexico, rig worker testifies.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/23/report-alarm-gulf-rig-disabled-oil-spill/
The rig's chief electronics technician told a federal panel that the Horizon's general alarm system was deliberately set in "inhibited" mode so that sirens would not wake the sleeping crew in the middle of the night.They wanted them all to die? No witnesses.
Quote from: Molly on July 23, 2010, 08:15:49 PM
Quote from: jabcat on July 23, 2010, 07:57:49 PM
Fox News: URGENT: The fire alarm system on the Deepwater Horizon was disabled prior to the catastrophic explosion that caused the oil spill disaster in the Gulf of Mexico, rig worker testifies.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/23/report-alarm-gulf-rig-disabled-oil-spill/
The rig's chief electronics technician told a federal panel that the Horizon's general alarm system was deliberately set in "inhibited" mode so that sirens would not wake the sleeping crew in the middle of the night.
They wanted them all to die? No witnesses.
Are you a reporter by any chance?
Quote from: thinktank on July 23, 2010, 08:18:41 PM
Quote from: Molly on July 23, 2010, 08:15:49 PM
Quote from: jabcat on July 23, 2010, 07:57:49 PM
Fox News: URGENT: The fire alarm system on the Deepwater Horizon was disabled prior to the catastrophic explosion that caused the oil spill disaster in the Gulf of Mexico, rig worker testifies.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/23/report-alarm-gulf-rig-disabled-oil-spill/
The rig's chief electronics technician told a federal panel that the Horizon's general alarm system was deliberately set in "inhibited" mode so that sirens would not wake the sleeping crew in the middle of the night.
They wanted them all to die? No witnesses.
Are you a reporter by any chance?
No. I'm a cynic. :laughing7:
Obama administration gives oil rig safety award;
http://jonvaala.wordpress.com/2010/05/16/obama-administration-gave-gulf-oil-rig-safety-award-in-09/
Quote from: Molly on July 23, 2010, 08:15:49 PMThe rig's chief electronics technician told a federal panel that the Horizon's general alarm system was deliberately set in "inhibited" mode so that sirens would not wake the sleeping crew in the middle of the night.
They wanted them all to die? No witnesses.
How dare you conclude that Molly! You know perfectly well tho$e in charge care for the wellbeing and a good nite sleep for the crew member of the rig! :Sparkletooth:
Read my posts of today and perhaps you find enough info to debunk my claim...
QuoteThe committee's letter also questioned BP's decision, detailed in a previous Chronicle story, to use just six devices to center the production casing in the center of the wellbore, instead of the 21 that cementing contractor Halliburton recommended.
The well was designed to fail?
QuoteBP also decided not to run a final, time-consuming test called a cement bond log in which a device lowered into the well uses sonic signals to determine how well cement has adhered to the pipe.
Oil field services firm Schlumberger had been hired to run such tests but was told early on the morning of the explosion that the test, which would have cost $128,000, wouldn't be needed. The Schlumberger crew left the rig on the next scheduled helicopter flight.
Smoking gun?
Quote from: jabcat on July 23, 2010, 08:26:56 PM
Obama administration gives oil rig safety award;
http://jonvaala.wordpress.com/2010/05/16/obama-administration-gave-gulf-oil-rig-safety-award-in-09/
QuoteIn the continuing blame game over the Gulf of Mexico oil rig disaster, the Associated Press found that the Federal Agency responsible for inspecting the BP oil rig that exploded several weeks ago, the Federal Minerals Management Service, failed to live up to its own policy of inspecting the oil rig once a month. It gets better... Last year, the MMS awarded that same oil rig with an award last year for its "exemplary" safety history. Ah, the efficiency and effectiveness of government bureaucracy. Let the finger pointing begin!
Meaning BP followed standards set by US gov to the letter or better.
That said: what exactly is a safty inspection? Could just been soming like: Enough light. No slippery deck. No cables to trip over. Hygenic kitchen. Etc.
But not the drilling itself?
Another possiblity is that the inspector got a "Tank for free card"...
Quote from: Molly on July 23, 2010, 08:35:36 PM
QuoteThe committee's letter also questioned BP's decision, detailed in a previous Chronicle story, to use just six devices to center the production casing in the center of the wellbore, instead of the 21 that cementing contractor Halliburton recommended.
The well was designed to fail?
QuoteBP also decided not to run a final, time-consuming test called a cement bond log in which a device lowered into the well uses sonic signals to determine how well cement has adhered to the pipe.
Oil field services firm Schlumberger had been hired to run such tests but was told early on the morning of the explosion that the test, which would have cost $128,000, wouldn't be needed. The Schlumberger crew left the rig on the next scheduled helicopter flight.
Smoking gun?
I don't think that Bp would want it's well to fail. They have lost crazy amount of money, they might not recover.
Quote from: ThinktankI don't think that Bp would want it's well to fail. They have lost crazy amount of money, they might not recover.
Absolutely. They would need a good motive. And the ability to morph themselves into something else quick, like..maybe.. Apache and Exxon.
I don't think Mr. Fink will suffer much, and Tony sold a bunch of his shares just before the rig blew--what luck!
Quote from: Molly on July 23, 2010, 08:35:36 PM
QuoteThe committee's letter also questioned BP's decision, detailed in a previous Chronicle story, to use just six devices to center the production casing in the center of the wellbore, instead of the 21 that cementing contractor Halliburton recommended.
The well was designed to fail?
A fact is that it saved money. Another admitted fact is that the operation had many delays. So perhaps they just want to get back on schedule.
BP's director and their bank sold their stocks. Obama is deeping in two funds that earns from the spill. All his money is in those funds. A really awfull speading of risk. No financial advisor would advise such foolishness. Unless... they did some (naked) shorting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naked_short_selling)
And when you are in such a position only failure makes you money. Corruption? Lemme just say it takes away a lot of drive to be succesful. Just because successful drilling means a huge finacial setback for the shorters.
QuoteQuoteBP also decided not to run a final, time-consuming test called a cement bond log in which a device lowered into the well uses sonic signals to determine how well cement has adhered to the pipe.
Oil field services firm Schlumberger had been hired to run such tests but was told early on the morning of the explosion that the test, which would have cost $128,000, wouldn't be needed. The Schlumberger crew left the rig on the next scheduled helicopter flight.
Smoking gun?
Large gauge shotgun.
With Sale of Assets, BP Bets on More Deep Wells
On Monday, as optimism grew that the temporary cap put on the Macondo well was holding up against the pressure of the oil below, BP announced an expansion of its offshore portfolio. The company signed a deal with Egypt's government to develop new hydrocarbon deposits in the Mediterranean Sea. BP's chief executive, Tony Hayward, declared, "This agreement unlocks a new phase in realizing the huge potential of the Nile Delta basin."
BP is the top producer in the Gulf of Mexico, with a daily output of 400,000 barrels in 2009. The company operates the world's biggest offshore platform, Thunder Horse, in the gulf. BP is also one of the top investors in Angola, which has turned into the fastest-growing source of oil in Africa thanks to its offshore deposits. Last year, the company made three discoveries in Angola's ultradeepwater Block 31. In addition, BP is also looking for oil off the coasts of Libya and Egypt, and it is the largest foreign investor in Azerbaijan, where it operates two major fields in the Caspian Sea, Azeri-Chirag-Gunashli and Shah Deniz.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/38342691
The 20 billion dollar gift: :mblush:
Despite the April 20 Deepwater Horizon disaster, BP has no plans to leave the Gulf of Mexico or stop drilling for oil in other deep ocean waters.
Just the opposite: with its runaway well apparently under control, the troubled oil giant is now staking its future more than ever on deepwater wells. Although such wells are far riskier than land-based or shallow-water ones, oil fields that are located under a mile or more of water can be extremely lucrative, and BP continues to see them as worth the risks.
Reflecting that strategy, BP [BP 36.76 0.53 (+1.46%) ] announced Tuesday that it had agreed to sell $7 billion of oil and gas fields to the Apache Corporation [APA 92.84 3.56 (+3.99%) ] . The assets being sold — in Texas, New Mexico, western Canada and Egypt — are all on land.
The move goes a long way toward raising the $20 billion that BP pledged to put in escrow by the end of 2013 to pay claims for the gulf oil spill. The company has already suspended its shareholder dividend to come up with some of the money, and it is expected to announce at least $3 billion in additional asset sales in the coming months.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/38342691
BP is still the King of the Gulf. :icon_king:
Quote from: Molly on July 23, 2010, 08:43:10 PMI don't think Mr. Fink will suffer much, and Tony sold a bunch of his shares just before the rig blew--what luck!
I still don't know what 'sell' means. Did he just sell what he had? i.e. going flat/liquid. Or did he sell more than he had? i.e. going short.
The first one means he knew there were trouble. That was no secret and admitted. He just stepped to the sideline and watch neutrally.
The second one means the same but in a more extreme form. It means he knew fairly well it would go wrong. But how that's the question? Did he anticipate the explosion? Or did he anticipate, say, a 6 month delay that would drop the value of BP shares?
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 23, 2010, 09:01:10 PM
Quote from: Molly on July 23, 2010, 08:43:10 PMI don't think Mr. Fink will suffer much, and Tony sold a bunch of his shares just before the rig blew--what luck!
I still don't know what 'sell' means. Did he just sell what he had? i.e. going flat/liquid. Or did he sell more than he had? i.e. going short.
The first one means he knew there were trouble. That was no secret and admitted. He just stepped to the sideline and watch neutrally.
The second one means the same but in a more extreme form. It means he knew fairly well it would go wrong. But how that's the question? Did he anticipate the explosion? Or did he anticipate, say, a 6 month delay that would drop the value of BP shares?
It's reported that Tony sold 1/3 of his shares [probably in the form of stock options] right before the well blew.
Goldman sold millions of shares and then went short--right before the well blew.
How does the saying go? Big money doesn't gamble.
So Obama gains.
GS gains.
Fink 'just' reduced impact.
Do you also know GS went short on stocks or options. Options are more speculative. Unless you have inside info.
Quote from: Cardinal on July 23, 2010, 07:44:00 AM
:cloud9: Yes, that's it, Jab.....thanks :thumbsup:
In '07 I had a dream from the Lord in which I was taken to see SIX men in white business shirts and black pants, standing around something, chanting like they were praying at an altar, but when I got close enogh to see in the midst of them, it was like they were counting money into the trillions. I knew they weren't real people, but rather Him showing me a principality that He was getting ready to deal with. The LOVE of money is the root of all evil.....
You combine the information from Molly's link and this one, and you see how they accomplished what they set out to do with this country already. We're just waiting for the last shoe to drop.... :mshock:
Are you sure about this dream. What if this dream means that God is about to bless the righteous with great riches. The wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just. The reason it could be that, is because, these men are chanting, praying? ungodly don't pray, and in front of the altar? The altar reminds me of Abrahams altar and God's promise of exceeding riches to his seed. Also 6 men, 6 is the number of man, so why would God use this number to represent a principality demonic force? Also if these men loved money, did they dance or were happy when they counted the money? since their suppose to love it so much?
I know it's your dream, but just points to ponder on. You might emphasize spiritual riches, but earthly riches can bring spiritual riches, for with Gold one can feed the poor and bring Christ into the lives of the poor, so that they can be made rich.
Quote from: jabcat on July 23, 2010, 07:57:49 PM
Fox News: URGENT: The fire alarm system on the Deepwater Horizon was disabled prior to the catastrophic explosion that caused the oil spill disaster in the Gulf of Mexico, rig worker testifies.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/23/report-alarm-gulf-rig-disabled-oil-spill/
QuoteWhen he questioned a Transocean official who turned a system that removes dangerous gas from the drilling shack to "bypass mode," the man reprimanded him, he said.
"The damn thing's been in bypass for five years. Why'd you even mess with it?" the official said, according to Williams' testimony. That supervisor, Mark Hay, told him the entire fleet of oil rigs runs on bypass mode.
Williams told the panel he believed the fire alarms had been inhibited for over a year before the spill, a decision made by leadership aboard the rig.
That the alarm was turned of because they didn't want to wake up the crew regularly when not needed, I can understand. But they should have installed a better alarm long ago.
The "bypass mode" off is company policy when it's done on all rigs for 5 years. And on itself enough to close down all rigs. Did they turn it on during inspections? Or did the inspectors just took a nap and left the rigs? Safety measure have no use if they are turned off by default.
Quote from: thinktank on July 23, 2010, 09:15:30 PM
Quote from: Cardinal on July 23, 2010, 07:44:00 AM
:cloud9: Yes, that's it, Jab.....thanks :thumbsup:
In '07 I had a dream from the Lord in which I was taken to see SIX men in white business shirts and black pants, standing around something, chanting like they were praying at an altar, but when I got close enogh to see in the midst of them, it was like they were counting money into the trillions. I knew they weren't real people, but rather Him showing me a principality that He was getting ready to deal with. The LOVE of money is the root of all evil.....
You combine the information from Molly's link and this one, and you see how they accomplished what they set out to do with this country already. We're just waiting for the last shoe to drop.... :mshock:
Are you sure about this dream. What if this dream means that God is about to bless the righteous with great riches. The wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just. The reason it could be that, is because, these men are chanting, praying? ungodly don't pray, and in front of the altar? The altar reminds me of Abrahams altar and God's promise of exceeding riches to his seed. Also 6 men, 6 is the number of man, so why would God use this number to represent a principality demonic force? Also if these men loved money, did they dance or were happy when they counted the money? since their suppose to love it so much?
I know it's your dream, but just points to ponder on. You might emphasize spiritual riches, but earthly riches can bring spiritual riches, for with Gold one can feed the poor and bring Christ into the lives of the poor, so that they can be made rich.
:cloud9: No, it was a feeling of "unclean" when I was brought to the scene, and their chants were counting money. It was like they were hypnotized almost. This root in the heart of man came at the fall, and must be dealt with before God can bring the riches of "Egypt" to the just. They mirror the true spiritual riches, nothing more. Blessings....
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 23, 2010, 08:16:34 AM
Quote from: Cardinal on July 23, 2010, 07:32:48 AM
:sigh: Don't know why I can't copy and paste off youtube anymore....
What part doesn't work? Selecting? Copying? Pasting?
:cloud9: Ok, for some reason now, in the addy box, all I see in black type is "tentmaker.org".......all the rest is light gray and my copy button won't copy it at all. All sites appear this way in the addy box now. I have no idea why. My cat has been helping type on occasion, not sure if he hit something, or it was my downloading IE8 that messed it up???
Quote from: Molly on July 23, 2010, 09:00:22 AM
Quote from: Cardinal on July 23, 2010, 07:54:23 AM
Quote from: jabcat on July 23, 2010, 07:46:19 AM
Wow. That almost leaves me speechless...
:sigh: Me, too......if true, it's stunning......we were overthrown already, it just hasn't played out to where we realized it yet..... :mshock:
You are staring into the face of evil now, yes?
I've been looking at it for a long time. It never fails to take my breath away.
The same is true for God's goodness.
:mshock: Yes......if all that's true, it's astounding. We were "set up" from the beginning, and we all have been financing our own demise.
Quote from: Cardinal on July 23, 2010, 09:37:57 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 23, 2010, 08:16:34 AM
Quote from: Cardinal on July 23, 2010, 07:32:48 AM
:sigh: Don't know why I can't copy and paste off youtube anymore....
What part doesn't work? Selecting? Copying? Pasting?
:cloud9: Ok, for some reason now, in the addy box, all I see in black type is "tentmaker.org".......all the rest is light gray and my copy button won't copy it at all. All sites appear this way in the addy box now. I have no idea why. My cat has been helping type on occasion, not sure if he hit something, or it was my downloading IE8 that messed it up???
When I hover over it the whole url turns black. Click on it to select. Then Ctrl+C to copy.
Or alternatively just rightclick and use copy from the menu.
I'm no real IE expert. In fact I rarely used it the last 5 years since I discovered www.Greenbrowser.com
:cloud9: Ok, thanks....
:cloud9: Thanks WW, it worked.....this is a must see..... :mshock:
http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h5741/actions_votes
:cloud9: This is an open letter from a FB friend in Biloxi, Mississippi......
dear friends,
first, thank you for your inquiries about myself and my community.
biloxi is beautiful this time of year. the heat is beginning but the fishing is always awesome and the sunsets reaffirm my belief in God as master painter. so far, there is no slick on our beaches. tarballs are found and reported to the proper authorities as they sometimes naturally occur. the beaches still glisten. the air still carries the perfume of nature. from a quick glance, it would seem that all is well, so far...
a closer look, though, reveals that it is not. sea turtles, one of the longest living creature in the sea, wash up dead by the hundreds. local fish caught in bays, sounds, and tributaries look healthy on the outside but reveal the catastrophe once filleted for the daily sustenance, as the black ooze coats their insides and makes them inedible. the local news outlets show photos and video of oil covered birds pecking at the hulls of boats, trying to make a hole so that they can pull themselves out of the liquid pestilence. 65 miles away, in st. bernard parish, where i am building, the community still reeling from katrina have already laid off all commercial fishermen. all of them. they hire their boats and themselves for the rescue and hazmat effort, but a way of life has now disappeared and nobody knows for how long. i watch the cranes, egrets and herons that fish every morning in the bayous move farther inland and decrease noticeably in numbers. as i drive by the rivers, bayous, and portions of the gulf of mexico, i cannot ignore the gift that has been ripped from our hands and drenched in black evil.
as you can tell, i survived katrina. that singular force of nature shook my dying soul and blew new life into it. i lived in my driveway for weeks. i spoke to, lived with, and helped neighbors that never acknowledged me before. family asked agencies to help find me and tell them i was alright. i was. i had to rise up, shake off a drug dependency and emotional hurt that i had carried in my heart for almost a decade. God asked my neighbors and i to meet the needs of ourselves and others. when it was over and the rebuilding had begun, i was myself again. Strong and resilient, my crippledness overcome and incorporated into the new paradigm that was me, i found that my Lord did love me and had blessed me with determination and principals.
mississippi responded strong to the adversity. they had to. our government failed us. we had only ourselves and each other. louisiana did not respond as quickly. plagued by corruption that shadowed every citizens move and choice, the dependency on local, state and federal governments revealed a weakness that is probably shared by millions in this country: what will the government do?
my friends, i will tell you what the government will do.
before things like this will happen, they will ignore your cries in order to nurture an economic system that is already in place and antiquated. they will pay election debts to their benefactors with your birthright and the birthright of your children. they will crank the war machine for transparent lies. they will allow companies to ignore cures to sell you medicine that will JUST keep you alive and buying more medicine. they will lease the rights bequeathed us by God to validate economic rituals that are ancient and whose time has past. they will squash the idealist who specialize in matching kindred souls and intellects that can collectively identify and develop long-term solutions that will allow us and our generations to evolve.
they will ignore you in your time of need until the pockets of their friends are shallow and the voices of millions are heard in one loud vote.
once things like this happen, they will be late, throw money at everything, pawn your highways and clean water just to look good on television and at the polls. they will tweak the pundits until they spew hatred on every channel and twist the reasoning of the simple until we are all mirror images of themselves. they will blame, avoid, and dissemble until it is too late. they will squander our reputation internationally as a peaceful and strong nation, leaving a bad taste in our neighbors mouth from the shabby goods we sell them.
friends, need i remind you that we are self-governed?
i looked at a neighborhoods in the 9th ward of new orleans yesterday. the rebirth of a community after katrina is finally showing signs of genius, determination, and moral turpitude. the newly built housing shows innovation and an understanding of our place in nature. the solar panels glisten as they push us towards self reliance and natural responsibility. the neighborhood shows, however much still hidden, our unbending faith in God.
now, i need to speak of what no one else will (or wants to). the elephant in the room. what will happen if katrina meets the oil spill and blankets the entire south with our own black blood money? who will save you then? turn a 20 foot storm surge into a 20 ft. oil surge. add the weight of raw crude to 150 mile per hour winds. can you see the cover of time magazine after this, printing a somber photograph of a pearly white church steeple, broken in half and covered in oil? the stage is set for this. the blame belongs to us. we allow talk radio to make up our political minds and lead us like sheep into the abyss. we mortgage our future for bread money because our faith is in the dollar and not our Lord? what kind of insanity is this and why have we allowed it? is no one taking notes in the great class of life experience? where is our humanity?
the sun will set on the beach tonight in biloxi, as it always does. for the first time in my life, i can envision the sunset here with no soul left to see it. the thought shakes me to my core.
please wake up. and wake up others. we need you....
your friend,
dave
Quote from: Cardinal on July 24, 2010, 12:40:03 AM
:cloud9: This is an open letter from a FB friend in Biloxi, Mississippi......
please wake up. and wake up others. we need you....
To do....what?
1. trust God
2. pray
3. love each other
4. ____________
5. ____________
6. ____________
7. ____________
BP accused of 'buying academic silence'
By Robyn Bresnahan
BBC News Bob Shipp said BP wanted to hire his entire marine science department
The head of the American Association of Professors has accused BP of trying to "buy" the best scientists and academics to help its defence against litigation after the Gulf of Mexico oil spill.
"This is really one huge corporation trying to buy faculty silence in a comprehensive way," said Cary Nelson.
BP faces more than 300 lawsuits so far.
In a statement, BP says it has hired more than a dozen national and local scientists "with expertise in the resources of the Gulf of Mexico".
The BBC has obtained a copy of a contract offered to scientists by BP (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/22_07_bp_contract.pdf) . It says that scientists cannot publish the research they do for BP or speak about the data for at least three years, or until the government gives the final approval to the company's restoration plan for the whole of the Gulf.
Read all (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-10731408)
Quote from: jabcat on July 24, 2010, 12:57:55 AM
Quote from: Cardinal on July 24, 2010, 12:40:03 AM
:cloud9: This is an open letter from a FB friend in Biloxi, Mississippi......
please wake up. and wake up others. we need you....
To do....what?
1. trust God
2. pray
3. love each other
4. share information with others
5. encourage each other
6. ____________
7. ____________
I added 2 to my list. Seriously, others? Related to which;
Anyone have any insights/revelation on;
speaking up against and resisting the evil of our (and other) government vs.;
"obey those in authority/they are placed there by God" and "live a quiet peaceable life"?
I personally find this to be a dilemma. Thanks.
7. Buy a barrel sodium thiopental.
8. Buy a few extra clips.
(sadly) history shows corrupt regimes only can be removed by force.
About your dilemma....there is none.
"obey those in authority/they are placed there by God" and "live a quiet peaceable life"?
I think that's most of the time not true.
In the OT God helped to wipe out the enemies of His people. That were also kings. Was God fighting kings He has put in charge?
Edited; RE: your OT question, "maybe" (see below). God has a huge plan, much of which I don't understand the details. I've been praying for wisdom.
As far as authority, there's this; "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God." Romans 13:1
Quote from: jabcat on July 24, 2010, 01:55:59 AM
Edited; RE: your OT question, "maybe" (see below). God has a huge plan, much of which I don't understand the details. I've been praying for wisdom.
As far as authority, there's this; "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God." Romans 13:1
I'm tearing my hair out now and renting my clothes.
YOU are the governing authority. YOU.
Sounds violent, Molly.
Can you put that in context of this verse?
Quote from: jabcat on July 24, 2010, 02:12:36 AM
Sounds violent, Molly.
Can you put that in context of this verse?
You were born in this county. That means God has placed you in authority. Those people in Wash work for YOU. You are their boss. Do you call/write/donate or not/ instruct others/educate yourself/educate others as to whether they are doing what you sent them there to do? Do you even know what they are doing? As their boss, is there something that you think they should do that they are not doing? Or something that they are doing that you want them to stop?
Do you think if they got calls from their constituents all day long telling them to stop the corexit, it would still be going on?
Or do you believe their propaganda that there is nothing that any one man can do because the juggernaut is too big and too powerful?
Do you really think they don' know nothin' about birthin' babies?
Everything they do has a goal.
The time for being passive is over.
Mark 3:27
No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.
So you'd add "calls from their constituents all day long telling them to stop" to my list above.
What would you personally do if "they came to take you away"?
I've given this serious thought, and again, I believe there's a dilemma that needs to be resolved (at least one that I'm personally working on).
Put away the sword, or sell what you have and buy a sword...
Protest and resist, or live a quite peaceable life...
Speaking of dilemma. I'm (generally) a believer in passivism, but I carry a gun (legally). I don't believe in murder, but I believe in self (and others') defense. I wouldn't go to foreign soil to fight, and would discourage my children from doing so. But I would defend this country (from without, so what about from within?).
I think within Christendom there really is a dichotomy about this topic. From some saying don't get involved at all, to some saying load your guns and shoot the feds...From my perspective, I think it needs clarification, but then again, what we get is so many's varying opinions.
As I alluded to earlier, it's probably time to pray for wisdom. And I was serious about suggestions to do "what specifically"...
Quote from: JabWhat would you personally do if "they came to take you away"?
That's such an odd thing to say. Why would you even let it get to that point?
If you study history, you will see that these things don't happen overnight. You should train yourself to see that move coming ten steps before it happens--and stop it in its tracks.
Evil reigns when good men do nothing. If you really think we are going in that direction, it's time to run for office.
I don't think it's odd. If things are in such shape as many claim (and I'm not necessarily disputing) then "them coming to take you away" seems a possibility at some point.
If you don't want to answer, that's OK, but I think it gets to the heart of "resist" or "live peaceably".
So "run for office" would also go on the list.
See, that's the thing. This thread is almost 30 pages long, with IMO, lots of good information.
But Cardinal's letter she posted included a specific plea..."we need you"...so to me, the obvious question is, "so church, what do we do? What's "within the bounds of 'holy'/acceptable behavior"?
Personally, I've been thinking through that for some time, and I guess I really shouldn't expect anyone to have the answer for me.
Quote from: jabcat on July 24, 2010, 02:49:06 AM
I don't think it's odd. If things are in such shape as many claim (and I'm not necessarily disputing) then "them coming to take you away" seems a possibility at some point.
If you don't want to answer, that's OK, but I think it gets to the heart of "resist" or "live peaceably".
So "run for office" would also go on the list.
Somehow I think you are mocking me lol.
Fight or flight. That's what it comes down to.
Ezekiel 22:30
And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none.
Quote from: jabcat on July 24, 2010, 02:50:59 AM
See, that's the thing. This thread is almost 30 pages long, with IMO, lots of good information.
But Cardinal's letter she posted included a specific plea..."we need you"...so to me, the obvious question is, "so church, what do we do? What's "within the bounds of 'holy'/acceptable behavior"?
Personally, I've been thinking through that for some time, and I guess I really shouldn't expect anyone to have the answer for me.
I have an answer. Stop thinking and do something.
I'm not mocking you. You should know me better than that by now. :friendstu:
I think it's a real issue. But what I'm asking is not only "nuts and bolts", but also scripturally and spiritually, "what's allowed"? I have my own thoughts on it, some of which I've already shared. But still, I think there are some real dilemmas for Christians in these matters. I've butted heads with a fellow believer on here about even defending oneself and ones' family.
But as I said again, maybe what I should really expect is a lot of different opinions, maybe one of them will "click" and help fill in some blanks. In the meantime, I think we better be praying. :2c:
"Stop thinking and do something".
Is that a little harsh for someone who's truly interested and concerned?
IMO, sometimes just "doing something" can be worse than doing nothing - especially if we aren't clear or in good consciense about what we're doing. That's why I'm asking for specific ideas folks have.
Quote from: jabcat on July 24, 2010, 02:58:15 AM
Is that a little harsh for someone who's truly interested and concerned?
IMO, sometimes just "doing something" can be worse than doing nothing - especially if we aren't clear or in good consciense about what we're doing. That's why I'm asking for specific ideas folks have.
Only you and God know what your strengths are. We are each given a talent. We each know what we can do. So, multiply it by ten and do it.
Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country. [typing test].
But, you're going to have to leave your comfort zone and follow Christ out of the boat.
Card's friend said "we need you".
I said, "to do...what?"
And started this list;
1. trust God
2. pray
3. love each other
4. inform each other
5. get ammo (White Wings)
6. call your congressperson (Molly)
7. run for office (Molly)
is this a good list? is there more?
I may split this off, unless the main players involved in this thread are OK with it being here. It was related to Card's post...
Quote from: Molly on July 24, 2010, 03:00:57 AM
Quote from: jabcat on July 24, 2010, 02:58:15 AM
Is that a little harsh for someone who's truly interested and concerned?
IMO, sometimes just "doing something" can be worse than doing nothing - especially if we aren't clear or in good consciense about what we're doing. That's why I'm asking for specific ideas folks have.
Only you and God know what your strengths are. We are each given a talent. We each know what we can do. So, multiply it by ten and do it.
Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country. [typing test].
But, you're going to have to leave your comfort zone and follow Christ out of the boat.
Again, serious question - not mocking. But I do want to respond to this; First of all, I guess being comfortable is a relative term. Secondly, that's what I'm after here - what would "following Christ out of the boat" look like? Walking a picket line in Washington waving a sign? Hunkering behind my window with a gun? Calling someone 100 times a day to complain and demand? Or something else...
I think I need to continue looking to God for what I should do specifically. He'll lead...I just thought there may be some specific ideas, and I said, insight/revelations into Romans 13:1 and the "live quiet peaceable lives" passage. Sorry for any contentiousness.
Luke 20:
20 And scrutinizing Him, they dispatch eavesdroppers, feigning themselves to be just, that they may get hold of a word of His, so as to give Him up to the sovereignty and the jurisdiction of the governor.
21 And they inquire of Him, saying,
"Teacher, we are aware that you are saying and teaching correctly, and are not taking the surface view, but of a truth the way of God you are teaching.
22 Is it allowed us to give a tax to Caesar, or not?"
23 Now, considering their craftiness, He said to them,
"Why are you trying Me? 24 Show Me a denarius."
Now they show Him one, and He said,
"Whose image and inscription has it?"
Now answering, they say, "Caesar's."
25 Now He said to them,
"Now then, be paying Caesar's to Caesar, and God's to God."
26 And they are not strong enough to get hold of a declaration of His in front of the people.
And, marveling at His answer, they hush. (CLV)
Matthew 11
28 Hither to Me, all who are toiling and laden, and I will be giving you rest.
29 Lift My yoke upon you and be learning from Me, for meek am I and humble in heart, and you shall be finding rest in your souls,
30 for My yoke is kindly and My load is light."
Quote from: JabWalking a picket line in Washington waving a sign? Hunkering behind my window with a gun? Calling someone 100 times a day to complain and demand? Or something else...
No one here has suggested doing any of the above. Why do you think of all action as 'extreme'? Because clearly, the above is what you heard.
Quotewhat would "following Christ out of the boat" look like?
Moses. Joshua. Caleb. Jesus. Apostle Paul.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVH1zmvigN8
Last town hall meeting I went to had a bunch of World War II and Korean war veterans.
Old guys, they had fought for their country when they were young, and they were still fighting for it by showing up when they perceived they were needed and speaking the truth.
Just show up and speak the truth. How hard is that?
You are the authority.
:cloud9: For my response Jab, I know what you mean.....prayer has to be first on the list.
I've personally emailed or called every one in congress and the senate, and I've emailed the White House. Out of all of it, I got one reply, from my own congressman, and it was basically a form letter of, "this is what I've been doing on your behalf". None of it addressed what I said, of course.
I joined Change.org to cast my vote on issues. I don't particularly like all they support, they're too liberal, but at least they're speaking up and get people to sign petitions on issues I DO agree with, and those I "sign" on.
In that one video I posted, someone recounted how Clinton said he couldn't do anything because there was a government inside the government. This is why nothing changes really, because all we do is "elect" another one of their bought and paid for, puppets. How do you vote out people you can't even "see"? Back to step one, prayer.... :crywipe:
Thank you for the direct answer, Card.
So you've contacted some people, and of course, prayed. Sounds good.
Quote from: Molly on July 24, 2010, 03:41:51 AM
No one here has suggested doing any of the above. Why do you think of all action as 'extreme'? Because clearly, the above is what you heard.
I didn't say anyone had suggested those things specifically, nor did I say that's what I've heard in this discussion. They are examples/possibilities, an apparently poor effort to attempt to generate discussion/ask people for specifics. A few have been given. Maybe that's all folks have or want to offer. :dontknow:
However, someone may still have some more specific thoughts on how a child of God who's seeking the Father's will, reconciles with the aforementioned scriptures and with the gentleman in Card's letter's request for help. That was my original question, along with what do people think a Christian should actually do?
I asked my question sincerely...
It's all in His hands. I think there is a purpose for every thing that is happening here. If God wants us to do something he will see to it that we do it. Nothing more, nothing less. We do not have the power to change history or anything else for that matter, only God has this power. Someday we will be able to see the purpose for this disaster and all the other disasters that have occured. We are just actors in a play.
Just my :2c:
CHB
That's an interesting perspective, C. Thanks.
Sometimes I vascillate between 1) praying, 2) trusting God, and 3) doing. Seems like you may be saying 1 and 2 will lead to 3 when and if God brings it specifically about (empowers and moves us) - otherwise, prayerfully trusting Him is a good place to be, because He is the One working all to His good pleasure. He's in control, it's all for a purpose. Is that close?
Quote from: jabcat on July 24, 2010, 02:39:17 AMBut I would defend this country (from without, so what about from within?)
Doesn't the OT give examples of taking care of things "from within"?
When the Isrealites were captive in Egypt where they Egyptians? Did they have the right to go against Farao's wishes?
If they were Egyptians (I'm sure the Farao saw them a Egyptian property) then you have your answer of rebeling against leadership.
If they where not Egyptians it's a bit more different. But basicly your leaders are not your leaders if they are not elected. Or don't do what they are not elected for.
A major problem is lack of unity between the states. Imigrants in Arizona? Who cares, I live in Nebraska.
Quote from: Molly on July 24, 2010, 02:45:53 AM
Quote from: JabWhat would you personally do if "they came to take you away"?
That's such an odd thing to say. Why would you even let it get to that point?
That's not the question you should ask Molly. A better question is: What are we going to do now they are taking people away.
QuoteIf you study history, you will see that these things don't happen overnight. You should train yourself to see that move coming ten steps before it happens--and stop it in its tracks.
Unless you are speaking of very tiny steps you are to late Molly. We got a global infection? What does the USA need info on my bankaccounts and my fingerprints to nam ejust two things.
QuoteEvil reigns when good men do nothing. If you really think we are going in that direction, it's time to run for office.
The US system is designed in such a way that only dishonest people can make it to the top. Say you run for president Molly. Are you prepared to spend 30+ miljon on your campaign? Or do you hope BP helps you with the needed cash? Even when you have the cash then the media can kill your chances by ignoring you or starting a hate campaign against you.
Quote from: jabcat on July 24, 2010, 02:50:59 AM
See, that's the thing. This thread is almost 30 pages long, with IMO, lots of good information.
But Cardinal's letter she posted included a specific plea..."we need you"...so to me, the obvious question is, "so church, what do we do? What's "within the bounds of 'holy'/acceptable behavior"?
Personally, I've been thinking through that for some time, and I guess I really shouldn't expect anyone to have the answer for me.
I understand you want to do it scriptually. Then the first thing you should do is figure out what scripture says on the subject. I think it would be a good new topic.
In this topic it will get swamped by all kind of news clippings I think.
Quote from: Molly on July 24, 2010, 02:53:36 AMI have an answer. Stop thinking and do something.
But what. Every action isn't a good action. Suppose Jabcat's idea is to throw a stone through the Whitehouse windows. He will be in jail to the end of times without having done anything good for the country. A strone through the window only works if 5000 people do so as a group.
Just look at Alex Jones. A real loudmouth. Sells videos, t-shirts etc. Has a radio show. Is bugging 'them' constantly. And what is the effect of say his 9/11 info?
50% still believes Osama is behind all of it. 50% believes it was an inside job. What does the last 50% do with that info? Do nothing. Or post a video on YouTube.
9/11 was almost 9 years ago. It's for at least 7 years widely know by many something isn't right. What did change in those 5 years beside you have some of your liberties takes away?
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 24, 2010, 08:30:01 AM
Quote from: jabcat on July 24, 2010, 02:50:59 AM
See, that's the thing. This thread is almost 30 pages long, with IMO, lots of good information.
But Cardinal's letter she posted included a specific plea..."we need you"...so to me, the obvious question is, "so church, what do we do? What's "within the bounds of 'holy'/acceptable behavior"?
Personally, I've been thinking through that for some time, and I guess I really shouldn't expect anyone to have the answer for me.
I understand you want to do it scriptually. Then the first thing you should do is figure out what scripture says on the subject. I think it would be a good new topic.
In this topic it will get swamped by all kind of news clippings I think.
Good idea. I may do that. :thumbsup:
Quote from: jabcat on July 24, 2010, 04:30:19 AMMaybe that's all folks have or want to offer. :dontknow:
Maybe looking at history gives the answer. Are there examples of a corrupt regime being removed without force?
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 24, 2010, 08:56:33 AM
Quote from: jabcat on July 24, 2010, 04:30:19 AMMaybe that's all folks have or want to offer. :dontknow:
Maybe looking at history gives the answer. Are there examples of a corrupt regime being removed without force?
I've split this off into a new thread, "What Does A UR [or any true] Believer's Political Activism Look Like?" http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=8409.msg100278;topicseen#msg100278
Lockerbie Resurfaces: Police Evidence Points to CIA Involvement and Fake Evidence. Megavi is innocent
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20100723&articleId=20243
Quote from: wwThat's not the question you should ask Molly. A better question is: What are we going to do now they are taking people away.
:Sparkletooth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L91qImuizYYhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cNwktuzrHY&feature=related
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 24, 2010, 08:56:33 AM
Quote from: jabcat on July 24, 2010, 04:30:19 AMMaybe that's all folks have or want to offer. :dontknow:
Maybe looking at history gives the answer. Are there examples of a corrupt regime being removed without force?
Our very lives attest to it!
Colossians 1: (Weymouth)
21 And you, estranged as you once were and even hostile in your minds, amidst your evil deeds, 22 He has now, in His human body, reconciled to God by His death, to bring you, holy and faultless and irreproachable, into His presence; 23 if, indeed, you are still firmly holding to faith as your foundation, without ever shifting from your hope that rests on the Good News that you have heard, which has been proclaimed in the whole creation under Heaven, and in which I Paul have been appointed to serve.
Our very loves can attest to that!
:cloud9: Check it out....founder of John Birch society speech in 1958 about plans to overthrow the USA.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZU0c8DAIU4
The effort to World Government today is just as contrary to the will and word of God as was Babel of old. And the whole world, including the people of God, must yet again, one more time, come face to face with the word of the Lord: "They shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay."
The present nations of the earth, and most of the christians of the world today, will be surprised... shocked... when God steps in again and derails the well laid and proud and boastful plans of the great men of the earth - and brings forth a company of unknown and unrecognized Sons of God - who shall become the instrument of God to establish in the earth HIS OWN WORLD GOVERNMENT.
"But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even forever and ever... the Ancient of days came, and judgement was given to the SAINTS of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom... and the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, AND ALL DOMINIONS SHALL SERVE AND OBEY HIM" (Dan. 7:18, 22, 27). Hallelujah!
by J. PRESTON EBY
wow! :Sparkletooth:
[I see you got your answer, Jab]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usfiAsWR4qU
I'm not able to confirm this story on the Los Zetas drug cartel, so I'm going to remove it for now.
My revised/completed list;
1. pray
2. trust God
3. do whatever God leads and empowers each individual to do - or not (one plants, another waters)
"Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit", says the Lord (Zech. 4:6)
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/top-secret-america/articles/frontline-video/
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/top-secret-america/
Johann Hari: How Goldman gambled on starvation (http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-how-goldman-gambled-on-starvation-2016088.html)
"And a fourth beast came up from the sea."
Having many different shapes and forms throughout time.
:cloud9: This thread has kinda become the "catch all" for our society's ills.......here's more about the border problems and the lawsuit......
DC Declares War On States
By Chuck Baldwin
July 20, 2010
This column is archived at
http://chuckbaldwin live.com/ home/?p=1898
Among the limited duties of the US Government enumerated in the federal
Constitution is Article. IV. Section. 4. "The United States shall guarantee
to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall
protect each of them against Invasion." However, for several decades now,
the federal government in Washington, D.C., has shown great ambition and
propensity to engage in activities to which it was never authorized, and to
ignore those responsibilities with which it is specifically charged. The
responsibility of the federal government to protect each State against
invasion is a classic example of the latter.
Can anyone deny that the states on the US southern border (California,
Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas) are being invaded by an ongoing onslaught of
illegal aliens (many of whom are violent and dangerous criminals)? Somewhere
between 12 and 30 million illegals now reside in the US. The entire country
is feeling the effects of this invasion, but the Border States are literally
under siege. And not only does the federal government do nothing to protect
the states against this invasion, it actively wars against states such as
Arizona when they attempt to protect themselves. Yes, I am saying it: the
Washington, D.C., lawsuit against the State of Arizona's immigration laws
should be regarded as an act of war against the State of Arizona in
particular, and against the states general in principle.
Please consider what Arizona and the other Border States are dealing with.
According to published reports:
*In Los Angeles, 95% of all outstanding warrants for homicide in the first
half of 2004 (which totaled 1,200 to 1,500) targeted illegal aliens. Up to
two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) were for illegal aliens.
*Some private reports state that 83% of warrants for murder in Phoenix and
86% of warrants for murder in Albuquerque, New Mexico, are for illegal
aliens. These reports cannot be verified, of course, because the feds
discourage law enforcement agencies from releasing such statistics.
*At any given time, up to 75% of those on the most wanted list in Los
Angeles, Phoenix, and Albuquerque are illegal aliens.
*23% of all inmates in LA County detention centers are "deportable."
*LA police estimate that violent gangs, such as MS-13 and 18th Street Gang,
are "overwhelmingly" composed of illegal aliens.
To read one very enlightening testimony given before Congress by an expert
on illegal immigration containing some of the above information (and much
more), go here:
http://www.manhatta n-institute.org/ html/mac_ donald04- 13-05.htm
In addition, the Pew Hispanic Center (an organization friendly to all things
Hispanic) reports that by 2007, "nearly one-quarter (24%) of all federal
convictions" involve illegal aliens. And "among those sentenced for
immigration offenses in 2007, 80% were Hispanic." The PHC went on to report
that illegal Hispanics "represented 29% of all federal offenders."
See the report at:
http://pewhispanic. org/reports/ report.php? ReportID= 104
Remember, too, that illegal aliens murder (on average) 12 American citizens
EVERY DAY in the United States. That means illegals murder more Americans
EVERY YEAR than in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan COMBINED, TO DATE. Plus,
illegal aliens who drive drunk kill an additional 13 Americans EVERY DAY.
See the following report:
http://www.wnd. com/news/ article.asp? ARTICLE_ID= 53103
At this point, I will not again chronicle the financial costs and job losses
exacted upon the American taxpayers by these invading illegals, but I
encourage you to read a previous column I wrote on this subject. See it
here:
http://chuckbaldwin live.com/ home/?p=1490
Plus, my web site contains an exhaustive page dealing with the problems and
costs of the ongoing invasion by illegal aliens against this country. See it
at:
http://chuckbaldwin live.com/ home/?page_ id=123
Add to the above the blatant rhetoric and public statements of activists
within radical Hispanic revolutionary groups such as La Raza that
incessantly call for the "reconquista" of the southwestern United States,
and one can easily discern that the invasion by (mostly) Mexicans in the US
is much more than "poor people trying to find a better life." There is some
of that going on, of course, but the invasion also includes violent criminal
gang members, drug dealers, human traffickers, rogue government troops, and
covert provocateurs who are attempting to destabilize US cities and states,
promote crime and violence, disrupt honest elections, and even facilitate
revolution against the American citizenry.
And what does the Barack Obama administration do? Instead of obeying the
Constitution and helping to protect the State of Arizona (and the other
Border States), it sues the State of Arizona for trying to protect itself.
Again, by this action, has not Washington, D.C., declared war against the
State of Arizona (and, by implication, the other 49 independent, sovereign
states)?
Please understand: Arizona Governor Jan Brewer and her allies in the Arizona
legislature are not only defending their State, they are working to protect
every State in the Union. Very obviously, the line is being drawn in the
sand against a federal leviathan that increasingly shows blatant disregard
for not only its own responsibilities and duties, but for the rights and
freedoms of the individual sovereign states, and for the American citizenry
as a whole.
And for those misguided Christians and pastors out there who are prone to
defend and facilitate this invasion of illegal aliens in the name of
Christian compassion, I would like to remind them of the words of our Lord,
who said, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door
into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and
a robber." (John 10:1 KJV) Thus, our Savior plainly categorizes illegal
aliens (or anyone who refuses to enter through a door--or across a
border--honestly) as thieves and robbers. Unfortunately, many are also
rapists, murderers, violent drug dealers, and slave merchants.
If Barack Obama had even a smidgen of honesty and integrity, instead of
attacking the people of the State of Arizona for simply trying to defend
themselves against a very real and dangerous foreign invasion, he would take
seriously his responsibility to help protect them against this invasion,
which Article IV. Section. 4. of the US Constitution clearly requires him to
do.
*If you appreciate this column and want to help me distribute these
editorial opinions to an ever-growing audience, donations may now be made by
credit card, check, or Money Order. Use this link:
http://chuckbaldwin live.com/ home/?page_ id=19
(c) Chuck Baldwin
NOTE TO THE READER:
Chuck Baldwin is a syndicated columnist, radio broadcaster, author, and
pastor dedicated to preserving the historic principles upon which America
was founded. He was the 2008 Presidential candidate for the Constitution
Party. He and his wife, Connie, have been married for 37 years and have 3
children and 7 grandchildren. See Chuck's complete bio at:
http://chuckbaldwin live.com/ home/?page_ id=6
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Please visit Chuck's web site at http://chuckbaldwin live.com
Burn the quran day. (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/Religion/post/2010/07/islam-quran-koran-dove-world-outreach-center-burn/1)
Islam is of the devil. (http://www.gainesville.com/article/20090708/ARTICLES/907081008)
9/11 festival :icon_flower:
Boat Crashes Into Oil Well, Creating New Spill in Gulf of Mexico
Published July 27, 2010
| FoxNews.com
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/27/boat-crashes-oil-creating-new-spill-gulf-mexico/
Now we see why the Obamites were in such a hurry to pass the health care bill--England has just announced 'astonishingly brutal' rationing of health care. Not good publicity for universal healthcare but just about what everyone predicted...But, it's not over until the fat lady sings in November.
Axe falls on NHS services
NHS bosses have drawn up secret plans for sweeping cuts to services, with restrictions on the most basic treatments for the sick and injured.
By Laura Donnelly, Health Correspondent
Published: 9:19PM BST 24 Jul 2010
Some of the most common operations — including hip replacements and cataract surgery — will be rationed as part of attempts to save billions of pounds, despite government promises that front-line services would be protected.
Patients' groups have described the measures as "astonishingly brutal".
More at...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/7908742/Axe-falls-on-NHS-services.html
Washington (CNSNews.com) – Speaking at a Congressional Health Caucus event, Rep. Mike Pence (R-Ind.) expressed concerns over health care rationing with the recess confirmation of Dr. Donald Berwick by President Barack Obama as the administrator of the Centers for Medicare and Medicare Services, saying that Berwick was "not entitled to that job," and should have had a confirmation hearing.
"I also believe, as a part of those confirmation hearings, Dr. Berwick would certainly have an opportunity to explain why he referred to the British socialist health care system as 'a global treasure,'" said Pence.
As CNSNews.com previously reported, Dr. Berwick praised Britain's National Health Service in a July 2008 speech at Wembley Stadium, saying he was "a romantic about the National Health Service," and that "any health care funding plan that is just, equitable, civilized and humane must – must -- redistribute wealth from the richer among us to the poorer and the less fortunate."
In that same speech, Berwick said, "Excellent health care is by definition redistributional. Britain, you chose well."
"On the subject of rationing, Obamacare actually adds $2.5 billion for comparative effectiveness research with the Comparative Effectiveness Research Board," Pence said. "This board will determine the type and quantity of medical care coverage Americans will get. It's modeled after the British system that rations health care."
:sigh: Just when you think you've heard it all pertaining the evil men do.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNsAK7jS0WY&feature=related
War on the Weak: Eugenics in America. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaH0Ws8RtSc)
END GAME: Official Movie Eugenics pt1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veHhcxQjZ2w&feature=related)
END GAME: Official Movie Eugenics pt2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ukluBe216k&feature=related)
Unbelievable. But I guess we better believe it unless we don't believe the nose on our face.
Anyone know anything about Mike Pence? He seems to me like a possible good guy for pres 2012.
Obama will be the next prez because he's an obedient string puppet.
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 28, 2010, 03:01:45 PM
Obama will be the next prez because he's an obedient string puppet.
I don't know what will happen. But I know this. The kids are catching on to him. He will not be elected again.
:cloud9: He's from my State, and he seems to be fairly sane as far as the rest of them go. I've written him several letters and it takes a couple of weeks to get a reply, but "someone" replies, not sure it's him or an improvised more personalized form letter.
And who is going to finance his campaign?
I think it's kind of telling that there are rumors flying around now that the dems are looking to Hilary to run against Obama . . .
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 28, 2010, 07:04:58 PM
And who is going to finance his campaign?
I don't think actual finance is as important as the free media.
The media really picks the president in this country. Or, they are told who to pick and facilitate it.
They gave Obama a free pass.
Ron Paul and Chuck Baldwin, for instance, were given either no media or laughed at. The controlled media is the real power in terms of introducing the people to the candidates, and they lie their heads off.
Now if people would just do a little digging on their own...
ps the media is currently pushing sarah palin and newt gingrich. :mblush:
I agree. Media is important. But why they always favor one candidate? Not sying it's a US thing because here Ron Paul was virtually unknown. McCain got minimum coverage too.
But that doesn't take away my point.
Say the 3 candidates are financed by Oil, defence industry, wallstreet.
Then whoever is going to win will push one of the mentioned agenda's. And none of them is there for the people to benefit from.
:cloud9: The media is owned almost exclusively now by a select few, who like all the other moguls, probably is connected in some way to the already established but apparently invisible, one world government. :sigh:
I know. Personally I think the whole election circus should be ignored by the voters.
Look what the candidates did in the past.
And with that I mean how they voted. I think we all know examples of politicians saying something popular in public; but when they have to vote for the new law they "secretly" vote the opposite.
National Ocean Council
By Cassandra Anderson
July 28, 2010
Thirty states will be encroached upon by Obama's Executive Order establishing the National Ocean Council for control over America's oceans, coastlines and the Great Lakes. Under this new council, states' coastal jurisdictions will be subject to the United Nations' Law Of Sea Treaty (LOST) in this UN Agenda 21 program. America'a oceans and coastlines will be broken into 9 regions that include the North East, Mid-Atlantic, South Atlantic, the Gulf Coast, West Coast, the Great Lakes, Alaska, the Pacific Islands (including Hawaii) and the Caribbean.
Because of the decades of difficulty that the collectivists have had trying to ratify the Law Of Sea Treaty (LOST), Obama is sneaking it in through the back door, by way of this Executive Order establishing the Council. Because LOST is a treaty, Obama's Executive Order is not Constitutional as treaty ratification requires 2/3 approval from the Senate. Michael Shaw said that the Agenda 21 Convention on Biodiversity treaty of 1992 failed to pass Congress so it was executed through soft law and administratively on local levels, and Obama's Executive Order is a similar soft law tactic to enact the LOST treaty.
In fact, our Constitutional form of government is being completely destroyed because buried in the CLEAR Act (HR 3534) there is a provision for a new council to oversee the outer continental shelf- it appears that this Regional Outer Shelf Council will be part of the National Ocean Council. This means that if Congress makes the CLEAR Act into law, then the implementation of the UN Law Of Sea Treaty, as part of the National Ocean Council's agenda, will be "ratified" in a convoluted and stealth manner, in full opposition to the Constitution and its intent.
The excuse for this extreme action is because of the emergency in the Gulf of Mexico. Obama and Congress have always had the legal and military power to force BP Oil to take all necessary action to stop the gusher and clean the oil spew. While there is evidence that the problems in the Gulf have been a result of collusion and planned incompetence, it begs the question, why in world should America's oceans and resources be controlled by Obama appointees?
NATIONAL OCEAN COUNCIL MEMBERS:
John Holdren, Obama's science and technology advisor, is the co-chairman of this new council. He is also a depopulation enthusiast and advocates sterilization by way of using infertility drugs in water and food as well as forced abortions which he describes in his book "Ecoscience".
Ken Salazar, Secretary of the Department of Interior, and its subagency, MMS (Minerals Management Service) has authority over offshore drilling and responsibility for enforcing spill prevention measures. The Department of Interior's BLM (Bureau of Land Management) is the entity that controls federally managed land extending across 30% of America in 11 western states. Last week, Congressman Louie Gohmert said that Ken Salazar personally prevented drilling on land in Utah, Wyoming and Colorado, thereby also preventing energy independence. In addition, the federal lands have been grossly mismanaged and present fire dangers. The federal government is $3.7 billion in arrears for maintenance of the federally managed lands.
US Department of Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack, by way of the US Forestry Service and US Fish & Wildlife Service, has been complicit in the decline of our country's food independence. For example, US Fish & Wildlife (along with the Department of Commerce) shut the water off in California using Endangered Species Act; it was later proven that partially treated sewage was the primary culprit in killing the salmon and delta smelt that was previously blamed on farmers. This is phony environmentalism. The US Forestry Service has also misused the Endangered Species Act to limit farmers and ranchers. Remember that the USDA co-owns the Terminator Gene patent with Monsanto that makes seeds sterile.
Lisa Jackson is the EPA administrator who has threatened to impose 18,000 pages of new regulations to curb global warming which is based on lies, claiming that carbon dioxide is a danger to human health.
Department of Defense Secretary Robert Gates and Department of Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano: it is unclear how these two federal appointees will enhance environmental 'sustainability' over oceans and coasts. Traditionally, national security threats (like the War on Terror) have been used by the federal government to take control of resources. For example, many years ago when the interstate highway systems were first being built, the Feds got in on the action by claiming that they were building a defense highway system, and they encroached into an area that belonged to the states. Interestingly, there were no overhead structures on highways originally because of the Feds' claim that large missiles would be transported on these "defense" highway systems.
Secretary of State Hilary Clinton, a leading globalist, is likely to plunge our country into international entanglements and subjugation, based on her past performance; an example is her support of the UN Small Arms Treaty, which is contrary to the Constitution.
Department of Energy Secretary Steven Chu and Department of Commerce Secretary Gary Locke are logical choices for this destructive council as some of the planned funding for this program will come from permits and leases (oil drilling leases, for example). These agencies will limit America's energy independence.
Click here to see the full list of the 24 member council.
THE SMOKING GUN:
Agenda 21 Sustainable Development is the overarching blueprint for depopulationa and total control, and the National Ocean Council is clearly an Agenda 21 program:
The National Ocean Council is headed by John Holdren, an avowed eugenicist which is selective breeding through brutal means like forced abortion.
The National Ocean Counci's own report (Coastal and Marine Spatial Planning, pg. 8) incorporates a section of the 1992 Rio Declaration which is an original UN Agenda 21 document!
In fact, the report says that it will be guided by the Rio Declaration in cases "Where there are threats of serious or irreversible damage, lack of full scientific certainty shall not be used as a reasonfor postponing cost-effective measures to prevent environmental degradation." (pg. 8) This means that regulations will be imposed even if the science is not understood or if the science is based on global warming manipulated data.
The 3 primary tools of Agenda 21's phony environmentalism are global warming, water shortages and the Endangered Species Act; the National Ocean Council intends to exploit all of these tools to their full extent.
The National Ocean Council's main objective is to sink American sovereignty through the United Nations Law Of Sea Treaty (LOST) with the intended result of domination by the UN over our coasts and the Great Lakes. LOST originated in the 1970s as a wealth redistribution plan to benefit Third World countries. LOST sets rules for commercial activity beneath the high seas and establishes new international bureaucracies and a tribunal to interpret and apply rules to sea activity. And LOST can proceed with those rules, even against US objections! LOST threatens to complicate deep sea mining. LOST sets a precedent that US rights are dependent upon the approval of international entities. LOST also extends to ocean flowing rivers.
REGIONALISM:
Michael Shaw pointed out that non-elected councils are increasingly expanding their jurisdiction through air quality boards, water quality boards, sewer systems, transportation districts, metropolitan planning, etc. to gain control over resources. Often, large corporations and financial interests form Public- Private Partnerships with the government within these councils.
Breaking areas into regions and placing authority with non-elected councils is a Communist trick used to hijack resources, thereby usurping local and state power by re-zoning the areas that do have Constitutional authority. Appointed bureaucrats are untouchable because their jobs are not dependent upon serving the voting population. And they are usually inaccessible to the public and do not have to face those who are affected by their "insider" decisions. When state and local governments become corrupt, the public is able to confront them eye to eye, but distant bureaucrats can avoid accountability. Regionalism is used as a psychological tactic to intimidate state legislatures into creating the system for a new political and economic order.
Obama's Executive Order that has created the 9 new regions amounts to re-zoning, and his appointed bureaucrats are answerable only to him. In David Horton's testimony in 1978 on regionalism, he said that the State of Indiana made this declaration, "Neither the states nor Congress have ever granted authority to any branch or agency of the federal government to exercise regional control over the states." Horton further stated that Congress holds all legislative power that is granted in the Constitution, as opposed to Executive Orders that are not legislative. Therefore, Obama's Executive Order for re-zoning and appointing a governing body to usurp state and local power is Constitutionally invalid.
The public must become aware of state sovereignty and the Tenth Amendment to demand that state and local governments assert these Constitutional laws and principles.
COASTAL AND MARINE SPATIAL PLANNING REPORT:
This is a general overview of the new National Ocean Council's goals based on its 32-page report that uses indirect language and acronyms in order to confuse the public and local lawmakers. Depopulation advocates, globalists and collectivists, like John Holdren, faced opposition a few decades ago when they clearly expressed their objectives, so now documents are written in complicated and clouded language to fool those they wish to control.
This report states that the Council's jurisdiction will extend from the continental shelf to the coast AND additional inland areas will be involved. The National Ocean Council identifies "partners" as members of each regional planning body that will include federal, state, local and tribal authorities, with a top-down hierarchy of control.
The intentions of the Council are stated on page 8 of the report that include implementing LOST and other international treaties. The report also states that the Counci's plans shall be implemented by Executive Orders, in addition to federal and state laws. This section mentions 'global climate change' which is a new term used as a substitute for 'man made global warming' after manipulated data and lies were exposed in numerous global warming scandals. 'Climate change' is blamed for sea level rise and acidification of oceans; evidence exists that these are more global warming deceptions.
The stated goals of the Council include regulating investments, collaborating with unidentified international agencies, controlling public access to oceans and "protecting" ecosystems. This means that commerce and trade will be controlled by the Council, the UN will gain power over American oceans and the Great Lakes through UN subagencies, public access will be limited and the Endangered Species Act will be unleashed, with heavy regulations. Incidentally, the Endangered Species Act is based on 5 international treaties. It has never had a successful result: of the 60 species that have been de-listed, not a single species was saved as a result of any restrictions stemming from the Endangered Species Act!
The targeted areas for Endangered Species Act regulations are the the Great Lakes, the Gulf Coast, Chesapeake Bay, Puget Sound, South Florida and the San Francisco Bay (the Bay Delta is where the irrigation water for farmers was was cut off using the Endangered Species Act, causing food shortages, an increase in food imports and massive economic devastation).
While this report does not clearly outline how the National Ocean Council's schemes will be financed, regulatory permits for all activity on the water and mining (oil) leases will play a part, along with tax increases. The report does indicate that grants and assistance programs will be available so that state, local and tribal authorities will support the Council's "efforts". In other words, the Council will try to buy off the state and local governments to "collectively use" them for a base of support and influence. (pg. 28) Strings are always attached to federal money. The federal government and the Council are reliant on state and local governments for implementation through state and local legal authority, which means that state and local authorities hold the power to implement or refuse the Council's directives, especially under the Tenth Amendment.
However, the report does state that disputes will be settled by consensus, if consensus fails, then the decisions will ultimately be made by the President. He is Commander in Chief of the Navy and has the power of the military behind him. Further, the report indicates that legislative changes and more Executive Orders may be necessary to achieve control.
An important point is made on page 5, which states, "Strong partnerships among Federal, State, tribal and local authorities, and regional governance structures would be essential to a truly forward-looking, comprehensive CMSP effort." This means that the states, local governments and tribes have power. Our collectivist government needs the consent of the state, local and tribal authorities, to implement this scheme, otherwise, the feds wouldn't bother to include these Constitutional authorities. If the state, local and tribal authorities are aware of, and willing to act on their Constitutional authority, then they can limit this federal power grab through the Tenth Amendment.
The report further states that signing onto the Council's plan would be an "express commitment by the partners to act in accordance with the plan..." (pg. 20) Therefore, it is imperative that all of the states be aware of the Council's intended usurpation and carefully protect their Constitutional jurisdictions and sovereignty. There are 30 states that will be affected by this new council. (pg. 12)
The Council's strategy plan will go into effect immediately, fully developing Agenda 21 objectives and undue UN influence within 5 years. Interestingly, one article said that if state, local and tribal authorities choose not to participate in in writing the plans, the plans would be written without them. Therefore, it bears repeating that state and local governments must protect their Constitutional authority when dealing with the Council. The Constitutional authority that states and local governments have can only be taken if the power is given away.
SAVING OUR COUNTRY:
If your freedom is important to you, the most effective action that you can take is to e-mail this article and Michael Shaw's "Understanding Agenda 21 Sustainable Development" booklet to all of your State Legislators, County Commissioners/ Superintendents and City Council members.
Tell all of your friends, co-workers and neighbors about Agenda 21 Sustainable Development and how it is destroying our country. The National Ocean Council is detrimental on so many levels and the time to act is now. If state and local officials refuse to stand up against this federal incursion, they must be thrown out of office in favor of representatives who support the Constitution and the Tenth Amendment.
Be sure to check back with www.MorphCity.com on July 30th to watch a special video presentation about how a local official stood up against encroachment by the federal government.
http://www.morphcity.com/home/79-national-ocean-council
The MYTH of Peak Oil
Ever since the world's first commercial oil wells opened in the US and Russia in the 1850s, the question of future oil supply has been controversial.
Today many people take for granted that oil production has peaked and that no substantial new amounts of oil are even possible to develop.
These pages present a contrary view based on the idea that oil reserve figures have not been presented honestly by the US and European oil industry. This is not to say that oil won't run out some day, but rather that the usually uncounted reserves are far larger than are generally known.
To begin with, one of the most revealing speeches about world oil reserves went unremarked in 2006. The head of the world's largest oil company, Saudi Aramco, said:
"We are looking at more than four and a half trillion barrels of potentially recoverable oil. That number translates into 140 years of oil at current rates of consumption, or to put it anther way, the world has only consumed about 18 percent of its conventional oil potential. That fact alone should discredit the argument that peak oil is imminent and put our minds at ease concerning future petrol supplies."
--"The Impact of Upstream Technological Advances on Future Oil Supply" - Mr. Abdallah S. Jum'ah, President & Chief Executive Officer, Saudi Aramco, address to OPEC, Vienna, Austria, Sept. 13, 2006.
Probably most important for world oil policy, the Middle East does not have two thirds of all world oil reserves, as has long been claimed by the Saudis, the oil companies and the US Dept. of Energy. It only has two thirds of "proven" oil reserves which are far smaller than the potential reserves Jum'ah describes.
As Standard Oil executive Wallace Pratt said in 1944, it is a "fallacy ... [to] cite proved reserves as a measure of available future supplies." Yet this is exactly what has animated US policy in the Middle East.
The news media nearly always use the proven reserve figures and omit other categories because the Department of Energy and the oil industry publish reports that include only "proven" oil reserves -- as if that is all there is. Most people do not realize that other petroleum geologists -- most notably those at the USGS -- take a different view.
http://www.radford.edu/wkovarik/oil/
As we have seen, there is far more oil in the rest of the world than there is in Middle East. If the Veneuelans are right, there is enough oil in Venezuela alone to power the world for 44 years (at 27.3 billion barrels of world consuption per year). Similar or greater reserves exist in the Athabasca tar sands and other unconventional reserves that push actual world reserve life well out into the 22nd century
Third, misinformation about future oil supply is something the media and the government have a responsibility to correct. Although the oil industry only publishes proven reserves, and this is misleading, the oil industry is also attempting to maximize protifs. It is up to the public service entities to correct this problem in the marketplace.
:sigh: I don't think there's any question we're sold down the river. I just wonder if we'll survive another 2 years of Obama.....
:thumbsup:
So much for transparency.
Under a little-noticed provision of the recently passed financial-reform legislation, the Securities and Exchange Commission no longer has to comply with virtually all requests for information releases from the public, including those filed under the Freedom of Information Act.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2010/07/28/sec-says-new-finreg-law-exempts-public-disclosure/
:cloud9: No wonder they labored so "vigorously" in Washington for "financial reform" :sigh:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jul/1/un-nuclear-official-resigns/
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/07/01/nuclear-inspector-olli-heinonen-resigns/
http://www.newsnet14.com/2010/07/03/olli-heinonen-finnish-deputy-director-of-iaea-resigns-after-5-years/
I couldn't find an article in English but Iran is becoming rerun of Iraq.
I won't use the word forgery, but facts are bend and selectively used to support the idea Iran is building nukes. Good reason to start another war
Quote from: Cardinal on July 31, 2010, 08:37:05 PM:cloud9: No wonder they labored so "vigorously" in Washington for "financial reform" :sigh:
Public can't get access except by court. All 'you' have to do is fight a zillion SEC lawyers and you get access.
BP is Spraying COREXIT over Populated Areas of the Gulf by Night 1/2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URCXPl_nVTs&feature=related)
BP is Spraying COREXIT over Populated Areas of the Gulf by Night 2/2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X40r4LbyHP4&feature=related)
:dontknow:
Scientists Find Evidence That Oil And Dispersant Mix Is Making Its Way Into The Foodchain (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/29/scientists-find-evidence_n_664298.html)
Scientists have found signs of an oil-and-dispersant mix under the shells of tiny blue crab larvae in the Gulf of Mexico, the first clear indication that the unprecedented use of dispersants in the BP oil spill has broken up the oil into toxic droplets so tiny that they can easily enter the foodchain.
Marine biologists started finding orange blobs under the translucent shells of crab larvae in May, and have continued to find them "in almost all" of the larvae they collect, all the way from Grand Isle, Louisiana, to Pensacola, Fla. -- more than 300 miles of coastline -- said Harriet Perry, a biologist with the University of Southern Mississippi's Gulf Coast Research Laboratory.
And now, a team of researchers from Tulane University using infrared spectrometry to determine the chemical makeup of the blobs has detected the signature for Corexit, the dispersant BP used so widely in the Deepwater Horizon
"It does appear that there is a Corexit sort of fingerprint in the blob samples that we ran," Erin Gray, a Tulane biologist, told the Huffington Post Thursday. Two independent tests are being run to confirm those findings, "so don't say that we're 100 percent sure yet," Gray said.
"The chemistry test is still not completely conclusive," said Tulane biology professor Caz Taylor, the team's leader. "But that seems the most likely thing."
With BP's well possibly capped for good, and the surface slick shrinking, some observers of the Gulf disaster are starting to let down their guard, with some journalists even asking: Where is the oil?
But the answer is clear: In part due to the1.8 million gallons of dispersant that BP used, a lot of the estimated 200 million or more gallons of oil that spewed out of the blown well remains under the surface of the Gulf in plumes of tiny toxic droplets. And it's short- and long-term effects could be profound.
BP sprayed dispersant onto the surface of the slick and into the jet of oil and gas as it erupted out of the wellhead a mile beneath the surface. As a result, less oil reached the surface and the Gulf's fragile coastline. But more remained under the surface.
Fish, shrimp and crab larvae, which float around in the open seas, are considered the most likely to die on account of exposure to the subsea oil plumes. There are fears, for instance, that an entire year's worth of bluefin tuna larvae may have perished.
But this latest discovery suggests that it's not just larvae at risk from the subsurface droplets. It's also the animals that feed on them.
"There are so many animals that eat those little larvae," said Robert J. Diaz, a marine scientist at the College of William and Mary.
Oil itself is of course toxic, especially over long exposure. But some scientists worry that the mixture of oil with dispersants will actually prove more toxic, in part because of the still not entirely understood ingredients of Corexit, and in part because of the reduction in droplet size.
"Corexit is in the water column, just as we thought, and it is entering the bodies of animals. And it's probably having a lethal impact there," said Susan Shaw, director of the Marine Environmental Research Institute. The dispersant, she said, is like " a delivery system" for the oil.
Although a large group of marine scientists meeting in late May reached a consensus that the application of dispersants was a legitimate element of the spill response, another group, organized by Shaw, more recently concluded "that Corexit dispersants, in combination with crude oil, pose grave health risks to marine life and human health and threaten to deplete critical niches in the Gulf food web that may never recover."
One particular concern: "The properties that facilitate the movement of dispersants through oil also make it easier for them to move through cell walls, skin barriers, and membranes that protect vital organs, underlying layers of skin, the surfaces of eyes, mouths, and other structures."
Perry told the Huffington Post that the small size of the droplets was clearly a factor in how the oil made its way under the crab larvae shells. Perry said the oil droplets in the water "are just the right size that probably in the process of swimming or respiring, they're brought into that cavity."
That would not happen if the droplets were larger, she said.
The oil droplet washes off when the larvae molt, she said -- but that's assuming they live that long. Larvae are a major food source for fish and other blue crabs -- "their siblings are their favorite meal," Perry explained. Fish are generally able to excrete ingested oil, but inverterbrates such as crabs don't have that ability.
Perry said the discovery of the oil and dispersant blobs is very troubling -- but not, she made clear, because it has any impact on the safety of seafood in the short run. "Unlike heavy metals that biomagnify as they go up the foodchain, oil doesn't seem to do that," she said. Rather, she said, "we're looking at long-term ecological effects of having this oil in contact with marine organisms."
Diaz, the marine scientist from William and Mary, spoke at a lunchtime briefing about dispersants on Capitol Hill on Thursday.
Dispersant, he explained, "doesn't make the oil go away, it just puts it from one part of the ecosystem into another."
In this case, he said, "the decision was to keep as much of the oil subsurface as possible." As a result, the immediate impact on coastal wildlife was mitigated. But the effects on ocean life, he said, are less clear -- in part because there's less known about ocean ecosystems than coastal ones.
"As we go further offshore, as the oil industry has gone offshore, we find that we know less," he said. "We haven't really been using oceanic species to assess the risks, and this is a key issue."
(Similar concerns have been expressed about the lack of important data that would allow scientists to accurately assess the effects of the spill on the Gulf's sea turtles, whose plight is emerging as particularly poignant.)
Diaz warned of the danger posed to bluefin tuna -- and also to "the signature resident species in the Gulf, the shrimp." He noted that all three species of Gulf shrimp spawn offshore before moving back into shallow estuaries.
Diaz also expressed concern that dispersed oil droplets could end up doing great damage to the Gulf's many undersea coral reefs. "If the droplets agglomerate with sediment," he said, "they could even settle to the bottom."
Nancy Kinner, co-director of the Coastal Response Center at the University of New Hampshire, said the use of dispersants in this spill raises many issues that scientists need to explore, starting with the effects of long-term exposure. She also noted that scientists have never studied the effects of dispersants when they're injected directly into the turbulence of the plume, as they were here, or at such depth, or at such low temperatures, or under such pressure.
She also said it will be essential for the federal government to accurately determine how much oil made it out of the blown well. A key data point for scientists is the ratio of dispersant to oil, she said, and "if you don't know the flow rate of the oil, you don't know what you dispersant to oil ratio is."
After a series of ludicrous estimates, the federal government settled last month on an official estimate of about 20,000 to 40,000 barrels a day, but BP is widely expected to contest that figure and some scientists think it is still a low-ball estimate.
There seems to be no doubt that history will record that the use of dispersants was good for BP, making it harder to tell how much oil was spilled, and reducing the short-term visible impact. But what's less clear is whether it will turn out to have been good for the Gulf.
BP + Corexit + Nalco + Blackstone = $$$ (http://www.thepoliticalcarnival.net/tag/blackrock/)
"Why did BP and the EPA keep on using Nalco's Corexit"
=> Certain people sit in the board of directors of both BP and Nalco.
BP, NOAA, EPA Cover-Up: Neurotoxin Pesticide Dispersant Corexit's Lethal Effects (http://www.antifascistencyclopedia.com/allposts/bp-nnoaa-epa-cover-up-neurotoxin-pesticide-dispersant-corexits-lethal-effects)
....
It might come as some big shock but there is increasing evidence to show that the EPA has lied ... yet again.
....
Independent water tests performed by Project Gulf Impact showed high levels of Corexit in the waters around Grand Isle, Louisiana, while EPA data showed no such contamination. Test results of all of the water samples that the EPA has done up until mid-July shows dozens of instances where the EPA is lying. In all likelihood, enough oil and toxic dispersants have been released into the Gulf of Mexico to contaminate the food chain: even NOAA has admitted that may have already happened.
....
So why is the EPA lying? Answer (and I agree with the EPA whistleblower, Mr. Kaufman): to protect the profits of the largest corporations from having to pay out billions of liability claims and fines.
....
A simple equation goes like this: less oil seen ... less fines to BP.
http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/just-how-british-is-bp/
Read who owns BP and then guess who is going to pay for the long term effects...
Note that a large part of the $ spent by BP are spent withing the same "shareholder group"
So for the real owners it's just moving money.
:sigh: Their greed is sickening.....
:cloud9: New one.....there's an article on here connecting Obama's birth certificate issues with the counsel helping him.....none other than Elena Kagan.
Sure about the URL?
:cloud9: Oops.....still having issues copying urls, for some reason. :dontknow: Will try to do it again......
Here it is--Small world, isn't it? :mblush:
Elena Kagan tied to Obama's birth certificate
'It just keeps getting deeper and deeper, doesn't it?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: August 04, 2010
10:55 pm Eastern
By Joe Kovacs
© 2010 WorldNetDaily
Just when you thought there couldn't be any more players in the ongoing soap opera over the hunt for President Obama's original birth certificate and his constitutional eligibility for office, there comes yet another name: Elena Kagan.
Yes, the same Elena Kagan nominated by the commander in chief to be the next justice on the U.S. Supreme Court has actually been playing a role for some time in the dispute over whether Obama is legally qualified to be in the White House.
Here's the connection. Kagan served as solicitor general of the United States from March 2009 until May of this year.
In that role, she legally represented the U.S. government in numerous cases coming before the Supreme Court.
A simple search of the high court's own website reveals Kagan's name coming up at least nine times on dockets involving Obama eligibility issues.
The fact Kagan handled these cases and is now Obama's first choice for the high court is raising some eyebrows.
"She was the solicitor general for all the suits against him filed with the Supreme Court to show proof of natural-born citizenship," notes WND reader Carl Jorgensen of Farmingdale, N.J. "He owes her big time."
"All of the requests were denied of course," Jorgensen continued. "They were never heard. It just keeps getting deeper and deeper, doesn't it? The American people mean nothing any longer. It's all about payback time for those that compromised themselves to elect someone that really has no true right to even be there. We should be getting so sick of all of this nonsense. The USA has finally become the laughing stock of the world. God help and deliver us."
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=187797
:cloud9: Thanks Molly....clearly we're being run by an ever increasing small number of players, who have elected to keep the American people on a need to know basis, and unfortunately, we never need to know, according to them. :sigh:
Quote from: Cardinal on August 05, 2010, 10:54:06 PM
:cloud9: Thanks Molly....clearly we're being run by an ever increasing small number of players, who have elected to keep the American people on a need to know basis, and unfortunately, we never need to know, according to them. :sigh:
Weird, even I know things that the average American doesn't seem to know....
The info really exists. Do not only follow MSM. I think if you ignore the 3-5 largest ones you are a lot closer to the truth. Not saying that the alternative media is without fault.
Anyone gonna protest in NY at 9/11?
Even the name of the mosque is provocation.
:cloud9: That's because big corporations control our news media now. They are doing away with investigative reporters, whenever possible, I know they did this in Indy.....a large city. So what else are they doing?
You should read the "Molly Times"... There are more newsoutlets than the ones owned by Rupert Murdoch.
I think most don't even care. A game on TV a beer and a few beers is all that's needed in life :winkgrin:
:cloud9: You have to scroll down a bit, but there's an article here about an army Lt. Colonel who sued in military court challenging Obama's right to control the military. Brave man; they locked him up. Blessings....
Quote from: Cardinal on August 07, 2010, 06:49:01 PM
:cloud9: You have to scroll down a bit, but there's an article here about an army Lt. Colonel who sued in military court challenging Obama's right to control the military. Brave man; they locked him up. Blessings....
Down where?
Why you think McCrystal (sp?) is gone?
:cloud9: There is an article if you scroll on down about him.....I read the comments on this on a FB friend's page.....
Quote from: Cardinal on August 07, 2010, 08:14:07 PM
:cloud9: There is an article if you scroll on down about him.....I read the comments on this on a FB friend's page.....
Ok I'll check every (FB) page and maybe I'll find it sometime...
:sigh: Why Obama bowed to a Saudi king is becoming more and more transparent. This is only a little over a minute long...... :mshock:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQG8PIqLp7k
:sigh: Interview with Aaron Russo with Alex Jones.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YGAaPjqdbgQ
Some background.....
Was Aaron Russo Murdered?
Film producer & rock musician promoter Aaron Aaron died of bladder cancer on August 24, 2007, at age 64. Aaron successfully promoted musicians such as Janis Joplin, & bands such as The Who, The Grateful Dead, & Jefferson Airplane. He also produced films like The Rose, Trading Places, & a masterpiece documentary called, America: Freedom to Fascism. Those who knew him have described him as an energetic, passionate person, who excelled at most of the things he did.
There may be a variety of reasons for Aaron's life being cut short. For instance, there may be a long history of cancer in his family. Or, by his own accord, he may have inadvertently come into contact with some type of cancer-causing agent. Because I'm not aware of his family history, or other potential contributing factors, this article is somewhat speculation. In addition, during an August 29, 2007 interview on the Alex Jones show, Aaron's girlfriend, Heidi Gregg answered no, when asked if she thought Aaron's death was the result of a Directed Energy Weapon hit. She said that Aaron's death was due to his lifestyle.
However, on October 23, 2007, talk show host Alex Jones declared that Aaron privately told him that he'd been threatened & thought his cancer was the result of an attack. If it was a DEW hit, there are many questions that remain. For instance, if he thought he was attacked, why didn't he make public statements to this effect? He could also have posted information on his site pertaining to this. I don't have solid answers for these questions. But it's possible that he studied this phenomenon & knew there was no legal way stop it. It's possible that, based on his circumstances, he decided it would be best not to burden his friends & family with something they had no control over. This too is speculation.
So let's speculate. On a January 29, 2007 interview with film producer Alex Jones, Aaron stated that an attorney friend of his told him that one of the Rockefellers wanted to meet him after viewing his video, Mad as Hell, & finding out that he was running for governor of Nevada.(*) The interested individual turned out to be Nick Rockefeller. "I met him & I liked him," said Aaron. "He was a very, very smart man." According to Aaron, they became friends over a period of years. Rockefeller would visit his house for dinner, & they'd share thoughts & ideas. Various business opportunities were offered to Aaron during these visits.
"Nick & I discussed many things," mentioned Aaron, "one of the things we discussed was reducing world population. ... In a way, I agreed, there are too many people in the world, but I don't think I have the authority to say who's going to die & who's not going to die." "But," he continued, "they [the CFR] felt that they wanted to reduce world population," by about "fifty percent."
Aaron acknowledged, ""He was the one who told me eleven months before 911 ... happened that there was going to be an event, (he never told me what the event was going to be), but that there was going to be an event, & out of that event we would invade Afghanistan. ... [Then] we were going to invade Iraq to take over the oil fields & establish a base in the middle east." Other countries such as Venezuela will apparently also be invaded.
"I remember him telling me we were going to see [the military] looking in caves for people in Afghanistan & Pakistan," such as "Osama bin Laden," proclaimed Aaron. And that "there's going to be this war on terror in which there's no real enemy." Aaron explained that because this war on terror was to have no real enemy defined, it would be endless. According to him, this was to be done to terrorize the public into submission, as part of a strategy to bring about a "New World Order."
One such business opportunity offered to Aaron included an invitation to join the Council on Foreign Relations. "I was definitely being recruited," says Aaron. Apparently Aaron was well aware of the true intentions of the inner-core of the CFR. He answered, "As much as I like you Nick, your way isn't my way, we're on opposite sides of the fence. You know I don't believe in enslaving people." According to Aaron, Rockefeller's reply was, "What do you care about those people? What difference does in make to you? ... They're just serfs." Aaron described Nick's personality during this time as, "cold."
Continuing his depiction Aaron said, "I used to say to him, what's the point of all this? You have all the money in the world you need, you have all the power you need. What's the point? He said, "the end goal is to get everybody chipped, [in order] to control the whole society. ... To have the bankers & the elite people control the world." ... Do all the people in the Council on Foreign Relations believe the way you do? He said, "No, no, no. Most of them believe they're doing the right thing."" It looks as though at this point, Aaron was beginning to see the psychopathic traits in his friend manifest.
"He wanted me to become part of what they were doing & he wanted me to become a member of the CFR, & offered various business opportunities [to me]." Aaron expressed that Rockefeller wanted to get him to stop his political activities & join them. "[T]hey wanted me to join their side," said Aaron, "because they thought I was a mover & a shaker. And rather than me opposing them, [they wanted me] to join them. ... [But] I didn't go for it."
So, Aaron denied what he described as an unofficial invitation into the CFR, & decided not to drop his political convictions. In fact, he began to investigate the Federal Reserve & decided to produce probably one of the most important documentaries in history. It's called America: Freedom to Fascism, & in it Aaron targeted the head of the beast by exposing the sinister plans of the CFR, Rockefellers & other financial elitists.
The description of the film on Aaron's site is as follows, "This film which is neither left, nor right-wing is a startling examination of government. It exposes the systematic erosion of civil liberties in America since 1913 when the Federal Reserve system was fraudulently created. Through interviews with U.S. Congressmen, a former IRS Commissioner, former IRS and FBI agents and tax attorneys and authors, Aaron connects the dots between money creation, federal income tax, and the national identity card which becomes law in May 2008."
The explanation continues, "This ID card will use Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) chips which are essentially homing devices used to track people. This film shows in great detail and undeniable facts that America is moving headlong into a fascist police state. Wake up!" To this account I will add that probably most of the individuals that have studied the New World Order, have learned that this ID card is that last step before a microchipped population. This chip will probably be successfully sold to an already cowed public in a variety of ways. The Problem-Reaction-Solution formula, no doubt, will be one of them.
Whether you're a 911 Truther, a Targeted Individual, or part of the truth movement in general, you should know that the drive to abolish the Federal Reserve is probably the single most critical task to be accomplished. Aaron certainly recognized this. Remember, things such as 911 cover-ups & the Hidden Evil can only occur because congress & the president are not in control. They are puppets of corporations. The same applies to the leaders of the rest of the NATO nations. In reality, this is a global fascist-communist state, with the trappings of a democracy.
Aaron started a nation-wide movement to abolish the Federal Reserve. Because of his popularity & passion for following things through to perfection, he most likely would have been able to assemble massive support. The financial elite were well aware of his capabilities, which is why they attempted to recruit him in the first place. They obviously knew he could pose a significant threat to their control. They knew he had a plan that could potentially work. An intelligent, independent person, who won't sell out, is their worst enemy. In my opinion, he is exactly the type of person they would target.
Fortunately one of the legacies that Aaron left includes the, Restore the Republic website.(**) I'm sure the folks who run it are highly exceptional & competent. No doubt this essential movement to free the country (the planet) will continue. Even though this is the case, there's a type of energy that certain individuals give to an activity. A single person can literally motivate hundreds, thousands, or millions of people. Sometimes, just by their presence. There are many labels society can give to such individuals. The financial elite recognize that they exist, & when they're identified, they absolutely must be recruited or destroyed in some manner.(***)
One notable individual who vowed to shut down the Federal Reserve System was President John F. Kennedy. On June 4, 1963, he signed Executive Order 11110, which legally abolished it. On November 22, 1963 he was assassinated. Unfortunately we've entered an era when assassinations can be silent & traceless. There's no question about the existence of this technology. These weapons can murder people through walls, over a long distance. Most of all, they provide clever concealment by producing a death that has the appearance of a natural occurrence. Dr. Reinhardt Munzert refers to it as, "the perfect crime." Was Aaron Russo assassinated? We may never know for sure. One thing is for certain, the financial elite had the means, the motive, & the
Quote from: Cardinal on August 08, 2010, 05:42:49 AMOne notable individual who vowed to shut down the Federal Reserve System was President John F. Kennedy. On June 4, 1963, he signed Executive Order 11110, which legally abolished it. On November 22, 1963 he was assassinated. Unfortunately we've entered an era when assassinations can be silent & traceless
If the law passed why does the FED still exist?
http://www.prolognet.qc.ca/clyde/pres.htm
:cloud9: Because President Johnson did away with one aspect of it, and Ronald Reagan took care of the rest of it.
:cloud9: Received this in an email..... :dontknow:
Here's a "conspiracy theory" for you!
BP, Illusion of a False Spill What are the benefits of this scam? MONEY, and population control. Interesting point of view. You be the judge.
Now we know why there was no reaction from Obama, EPA , and a red flushed neck on the Admiral of the Coast Guard, and why no fly zone, no media! And I wonder how a TAR BALL could have formed so soon! And the permission Obama gave a few weeks before the BP oil spill for them to drill in the Gulf...must have been for a President's order to drill into the Volcano!!
The 'disaster' in the Gulf of Mexico is beyond a false flag; it's an illusion. What I'm about to reveal will more than likely go by the wayside, and the charade will continue. The reason for writing this is not for attention, games, or folly, but to expose the biggest scam in the 21st century, and to relieve some aching hearts. There is no need for fear as this is a staged event. I cannot reveal my sources, they do go straight to the top, but hopefully what I write will echo inside of each person reading this as the truth.
Much of the information I present here cannot be easily verified, fast checked, or ever presented as anything, but hearsay, as they are just words of an anonymous online entity. The Government, corporations, and the people behind them have pulled out all the stops to insure the truth doesn't come out. They are the reason why the beaches have private security contractors, insuring no one is able to gain access to the oil on shore. They are the reason the Gulf of Mexico is a no fly zone. They are the reason why the gulf states are being locked down by military. They are the reason why the well head you see is different in many videos that BP releases. Without this measure of control the illusion would fail. In this post, what I can do is provide leading evidence, or give clues to the truth; from there you can use something that has gone by the way side, common sense.
The large oil spills washing up on the shores are not from BP Deep Horizon. They are indeed from surrounding wells, that were already leaking by design. These wells can be verified through a simple online search. You'll notice that much of the oil is actually in the form of tar. Usually tar balls; sizes of these have reached 2000+ pounds.
From the start, BP, Haliburton, and co-conspirators knew where they were drilling. Using specific equipment, such as the German ship RV Sonne, they had detailed maps of the ocean bottom. The ship, and a specific college study from 2005, in the Gulf of Mexico, are your starting points to what's really happening in the gulf. Here's a link to what the study synopses http://geology. about.com/ cs/volcanology/ a/aa051604a. htm
What BP, Haliburton, and other co-conspirators intentionally drilled into was an Asphalt Volcano. Sounds scary doesn't it? It really is not. In fact, after you read the above link you'll know that the Gulf of Mexico is literally coated in oil, tar, and methane hydrate at the bottom. The study went on to find that massive aquatic life has specifically adapted to living off of the hydrocarbons. That in fact these asphalt volcanoes are a natural part of the ocean ecology, and their eruptions actually benefit the sea life over the long duration of time.
Another aspect to what I was directly told is that BP, Haliburton, and other co-conspirators drilled intentionally into the 'mid side' of this particular asphalt volcano. Basically from what I understand, it is a soda bottle effect. If they had drilled into the top of the volcano, then all the gas would rise out, and explode as would bottled carbonated liquid. The effect of drilling into the side permits a safely controlled release of gas, tar, liquified asphalt, and other related gases. What was done is a more or less controlled release; almost natural in fact!
The Asphalt volcano was a win win situation for this false flag: as it presented the best illusion to all outside parties. Not only do the conspirators need to fool the general public, but also the oil industry, and scientific community. The public is easy to fool, but the latter two groups take a little more effort; this is the main reason why the Gulf is being isolated by security contractors, and military. Anyone well versed on this giant debacle in the Gulf knows that it is surrounded with stories, and claims of negligence. This was the first purposeful aspect to make the story seem credible to all outside parties; as the story is more easily believed, when it is chalked up to human error, or incompetence.
Besides using inferior, shotty, or flat out negligent craftsmanship, as the well was intended to fail from the onset, the conspirators knew that the pressure produced from the volcano would blow out even better equipment. This was the second mechanism to fool other industry experts. All experts, and scientific communities only know what they are told, and that is the well tapped into a large high pressure hydrocarbon pocket. To even a trained eye, what they are being told appears to be a massive oil gusher, when in fact it's a controlled event.
In watching the videos, or live feeds looks horrible, and very ominous, but upon closer examination the tell tale signs of what it really is shows through, what you are actually viewing is a man made(well bore) large "Black Smoker". You should take note, as the evidence has built, the live feed appears to have been tampered with. I suspect it is because of the video below. The man narrating the video has it correct, it is a volcano! But those aren't flames. From the link provided above, they are a combination of gases; specifically Sulfur, and Iron are what create the flame effect. Since the airing of that video, several of the live feeds have been proven to be tampered footage, or faked.
You need to realize that an illusion is only as good as it's weakest link. All scientific evidence on paper coming from the government, and corporations is being fudged. In the case of this staged, and controlled event that weak link is the oil, or more specifically the tangible tar that can be collected. As I mentioned much of the oil that has been seen, or noticed is tar rather than heavy crude oil. Out at sea closest to the Deep Horizon site, "shrimpers" have been hired to boom the oil/tar together, and set it ablaze.
There are several huge fires right now out in the Gulf. The reason is for this is to hide the evidence. The distinct asphalt volcano tar, is actually coated with naturally produced oil eating microbes, and other natural safe guards produced by Mother Earth; these types of organisms are not present in a regular oil well, but commonly in the Asphalt Volcanoes, and large tar flows at the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico.
To continue with why the asphalt volcano was a win win to drill into, is the heaviness of the tar. Read the linked article provided above, the tar will cling to lighter oil, and fall to the bottom of the Gulf at some point, near in the future. Also, the microbes, and other organisms that naturally occur from this will multiply. They will not only eat the tar, but the other control released oil that they are pumping into the Gulf.
We've all seen the videos of beaches not lined so much with oil, but with tar balls of varying sizes. Also, we've all noticed BP's overall lack of concern for cleanup. We've seen booms which aren't tied together. We've heard first hand account of staged clean ups on the beaches. As soon as a press conference, or media event is done BP stops work. The reason is simple, it's not that they don't care, but that they already know what's gonna happen. The oil will start naturally being cleaned up via decomposition, oil eating organisms, and falling to the already naturally tar covered bottom of the Gulf of Mexico.
What's the benefit of this scam? MONEY, and population control. Read this article http://theintelhub. com/2010/ 06/18/gulf- spill-disaster- or-a-well- organized- plan/
If you're still reading this article, and even beginning to grasp the sinister nature of the fraud being perpetrated, then you'll realize that the corexit9500, and other dispersant's are not needed. They are purposely being sprayed by Evergreen Air/CIA to cull the population along the Gulf Coast.
Also, explained to me, is the large amount of "useless eaters, pond scum, or undesirables" living along the gulf coast. These would be the Americans living off of the government. I will not beat around the bush with pleasantries, or politically correct statements here. This coastal area from Texas to Florida has the highest, or most dense population of targets of illimination by the US Govt., and corporations. These are the populations living on welfare, and the older population living on Social Security (mainly Florida). These people are going to start dropping like flies over the next few years, and greatly reduce the burden to government coffers.
In this respect this is a doomsday event, but it's not the end of the food chain, death of the oceans, or as some have warned an extinction level event. It's only bad for the targeted populations.
To cover the money aspects of this fraudulent event, are somewhat self evident. Primarily, as President Obama (note he's not very worried, think about it) has just pointed out, they are using this false flag to move forward with the Carbon Tax, followed by Cap, and Trade.
Another aspect of profit is the clean up of this disaster; those boats aren't running around for free in the Gulf. From there, is the very real aspect of banks calling their notes on the remaining mortgaged properties along the Gulf, and peninsula of Florida. Remember Katrina? They never gave the land back, but sold it to casinos, and other businesses. Almost all beach front property will end up in the hands of the banks, and government. They'll play this disaster off for a few years, and explain the mysterious disappearance of oil on kindness from mother nature.
The side effects of this scam are negligible; in the eyes of the perpetrators, they've done nature a favor. They've opened up an asphalt volcano from the side, and will shut it down in the next few months by equalizing the pressure. The equalization of pressure will come by way of the two relief wells; which are not wells, but vents. when they do this, I have no clue what excuse they'll use, but the current gusher will stop. I said stop, it will not slow down, but literally stop. Remember, all they have done is aided nature in something that is a very common, and naturally occurring event at the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico.
Anyone who has family anywhere near where they are spraying these chemicals need to alert their family to leave; they are the target of this false flag. To anyone who finds credence, or a shred of truth in what I've written, please pass this on; as we all are the target on the grand scale. The target by way of the coming carbon tax, cap, and trade; and by the way, Edridge oil spill in Michigan is owned by BP from the Alberta Tar Sands, the dirtiest oil there is...Again, this is another UK /BP assault on Michigan from Our Canadian neighbor as we in Michigan, become, the Green Energy Capital..... .(MICH).
BP has not maintained their pipeline to and through the USA.
And Like my brother said, where are the shut-off valves along that pipeline.... don't they have any? And I said, put the two pipe ends together where they were broke, due to rust, and stop the oil leak!
This has to be done for some reason and my guess again it is to depopulate one of the largest populations in Michigan, Kalamazoo and Battle creek...and so we will accept the increase in taxes for Green Energy.
QuoteThe large oil spills washing up on the shores are not from BP Deep Horizon. They are indeed from surrounding wells, that were already leaking by design.
If that's true, I would expect oil on the water and all beaches for decades. Leaking by design means they are leaking for a long time.
Greetings, Citizens of Earth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OT5jQCaM8Y
:cloud9: Now our tax dollars are going to build mosques.... :sigh:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/aug/10/tax-dollars-to-build-mosques/
I advise the Italian way.
Dunno the english name for it but the people from that Italian village organised a pig market on place where the mosque was planned.
End of plans.
The places of Baal are growing in numbers.
Next to the mosque a gay bar "specializing" in Islamic gays is planned. Gonna be fun :laughing7:
And, our tax dollars are sending the so-called Ground Zero mosque "cleric" on an international mission to show what a diverse culture we have in the U.S. It will be his third tax-payed trip.
I'm pretty sick of it....God move in a mighty way in this sick land.
http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/08/10/ground-zero-mosque-imam-to-represent-u-s/
Quote from: jabcat on August 11, 2010, 08:33:39 PM
And, our tax dollars are sending the so-called Ground Zero mosque "cleric" on an international mission to show what a diverse culture we have in the U.S. It will be his third tax-payed trip.
I'm pretty sick of it....God move in a mighty way in this sick land.
http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/08/10/ground-zero-mosque-imam-to-represent-u-s/
It's not only this land but almost all western countries are competing to be the biggest dhimmi.
Until...civil war.
:cloud9: You got a link for the Italian "way"? I think people are outraged enough to drop off some pigs at ground zero..... :laughing7:
http://dorigo.wordpress.com/2007/11/10/fighting-islam-with-pigs/
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=4808968
http://onecountryvoice.wordpress.com/2006/12/13/craig-baker-pig-races-and-kiawhat-the-media-wont-say-art-3/
Ground Zero Imam: 'I Don't Believe in Religious Dialogue' (http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/ground-zero-imam-i-dont-believe-in-religious-dialogue/?singlepage=true)
Is Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf — founder of the hugely controversial Ground Zero mosque — lying to the American public and his fellow New Yorkers?
Pajamas Media has uncovered extraordinary contradictions between what he says in English and what he says in Arabic that raise serious questions about his true intentions in the construction of the mosque.
On May 25, 2010, Abdul Rauf wrote an article for the New York Daily News insisting:
My colleagues and I are the anti-terrorists. We are the people who want to embolden the vast majority of Muslims who hate terrorism to stand up to the radical rhetoric. Our purpose is to interweave America's Muslim population into the mainstream society. [emphasis added]
Oh, really?
Only two months before, on March 24, 2010, Abdul Rauf is quoted in an article in Arabic for the website Rights4All entitled "The Most Prominent Imam in New York: 'I Do Not Believe in Religious Dialogue.'"
Yes, you read that correctly and, yes, that is an accurate translation of Abdul Rauf. And Right4All is not an obscure blog, but the website of the media department of Cairo University, the leading educational institution of the Arabic-speaking world.
In the article, the imam said the following of the "religious dialogue" and "interweaving into the mainstream society" that he so solemnly seems to advocate in the Daily News and elsewhere:
This phrase is inaccurate. Religious dialogue as customarily understood is a set of events with discussions in large hotels that result in nothing. Religions do not dialogue and dialogue is not present in the attitudes of the followers, regardless of being Muslim or Christian. The image of Muslims in the West is complex which needs to be remedied.
But that was two months ago. More recently — in fact on May 26, one day after his Daily News column – Abdul Rauf appeared on the popular Islamic website Hadiyul-Islam with even more disturbing opinions. That's the same website where, ironically enough, a fatwa was simultaneously being issued forbidding a Muslim to sell land to a Christian, because the Christian wanted to build a church on it.
In his interview on Hadiyul-Islam by Sa'da Abdul Maksoud, Abdul Rauf was asked his views on Sharia (Islamic religious law) and the Islamic state. He responded:
Throughout my discussions with contemporary Muslim theologians, it is clear an Islamic state can be established in more than just a single form or mold. It can be established through a kingdom or a democracy. The important issue is to establish the general fundamentals of Sharia that are required to govern. It is known that there are sets of standards that are accepted by [Muslim] scholars to organize the relationships between government and the governed. [emphasis added]
When questioned about this, Abdul Rauf continued: "Current governments are unjust and do not follow Islamic laws." He added:
New laws were permitted after the death of Muhammad, so long of course that these laws do not contradict the Quran or the Deeds of Muhammad ... so they create institutions that assure no conflicts with Sharia. [emphasis in translation]
In yet plainer English, forget the separation of church and state. Abdul Rauf's goal is the imposition of Shariah law — in every country, even democratic ones like the U.S.
But these attitudes are nothing new for the (alas, few) people who have been paying attention. Way back on September 30, 2001, Feisal Abdul Rauf was interviewed on 60 Minutes by host Ed Bradley. Their verbatim dialogue from this CBS News transcript concluded:
BRADLEY: Are — are — are you in any way suggesting that we in the United States deserved what happened?
Imam ABDUL RAUF: I wouldn't say that the United States deserved what happened, but the United States policies were an accessory to the crime that happened.
BRADLEY: OK. You say that we're an accessory?
Imam ABDUL RAUF: Yes.
BRADLEY: How?
Imam ABDUL RAUF: Because we have been an accessory to a lot of — of innocent lives dying in the world. In fact, it — in the most direct sense, Osama bin Laden is made in the USA.
This is the "anti-terrorist" of the Daily News article?
The Feisal Abdul Rauf who spoke to 60 Minutes in 2001 is the same Abdul Rauf who, in the last couple of months, espoused the spread of Sharia law on Arabic websites and said the opposite in the pages of the Daily News. He is the man New York City authorities are about to allow to build a mosque on Ground Zero.
Caveat emptor. Meanwhile, perhaps some enterprising reporter should ask Abdul Rauf his opinion of that fatwa forbidding Muslims from selling land to Christians who intend to build a church on it.
(Don't miss PJTV's coverage of the Ground Zero mosque story.)
(http://94.100.118.73/1129450001-1129500000/1129492601-1129492700/1129492631_5_uYj_.jpeg)
"Mr Geithner, may I borrow your TurboTax"
"From little ACORNS mighty Marxists grow"
"Obama Pelosi Reid, the Axis of Taxes"
"Read my lipstick, No More Bailouts"
"Slavery begins with mandatory volunteering"
"Polititians you better listen to us"
"Freedom is not a privilege, it is a right"
Socialism: Tax dollars at work for those who do not.
Why pay texes when they can just print money?
I guess they do not teach "federal budget for dummies" at Harvard.
Treason. (http://wakkerewaarheid.hyves.nl/blog/38303066/Obama_s_Change_Backfire_in_Chicago/MsLF/)
:cloud9: Received another email with something I had not heard of......anybody heard anything about this? :dontknow:
"I read recently that according to some observations, the present sun, moon and star weirdness is merely an optical phenomenon viewed by those at the extreme northern latitudes. An entirely optical phenomenon does not wash as an explanation, and I'll tell you why...
Many of us at the lower latitudes are noticing this as well. There is nearly a complete multimedia blackout of TRUE information. Also, those observations do not account for the moon playing rodeo all over the sky! Check the university data of where the moon should be this time of year. Now compare the data with where you observe the moon to be over the course of a short couple weeks. I live at 41deg. North and one can easily tell that the earth is wobbling pretty good. Also, the scientists are perplexed at the strange tides and increased quake activity the world over. Britain, according to satellite photos, and media stories, was covered completely this winter, and appeared for all the world to be but a smaller version of Antarctica. Optical anomalies? NO WAY. To a small degree, perhaps, but this is VERY real.
For those who believe that what we are witnessings is merely an optical phenomena....Please read the following links and see if you think your eyes are lying to you:
http://www.backwoodshome.com/forum/v...ad.php?t=18430
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/spor...la-Divers.html
http://www.physorg.com/news90905241.html
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2009/...3121260280870/
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/bre...ry/852054.html
http://www.gpb.org/news/2009/07/27/s...ng-freak-tides
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus...0907241023.htm
http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...rrents-climate
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0110151325.htm
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn8398
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk...6908-21951250/
If one has read the above links, then the following Promises may hold more important meaning now:
There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. 26Men will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. 27At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near." Luke 21:25-28"
:cloud9: This is an interesting link also......Emergency and Disaster Information Service.......it's an information service showing things things going on worldwide on a worldwide map, such as volcano eruptions, tsunamis, earthquakes, biohazards.
http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/index2.php?smp
All links with ... in it are cut off :-)
:cloud9: That's nice. I hadn't had a chance to look at them all, myself..... :sigh:
The author of this article now lives in South Dakota .
"After America , There is No Place to Go"
By: Kitty Werthmann
What I am about to tell you is something you've probably never heard or will ever read in history books.
I believe that I am an eyewitness to history. I cannot tell you that Hitler took Austria by tanks and guns; it would distort history. We elected him by a landslide - 98% of the vote.. I've never read that in any American publications. Everyone thinks that Hitler just rolled in with his tanks and took Austria by force.
In 1938, Austria was in deep Depression. Nearly one-third of our workforce was unemployed. We had 25% inflation and 25% bank loan interest rates.
Farmers and business people were declaring bankruptcy daily. Young people were going from house to house begging for food. Not that they didn't want to work; there simply weren't any jobs. My mother was a Christian woman and believed in helping people in need. Every day we cooked a big kettle of soup and baked bread to feed those poor, hungry people - about 30 daily.
The Communist Party and the National Socialist Party were fighting each other. Blocks and blocks of cities like Vienna , Linz , and Graz were destroyed. The people became desperate and petitioned the government to let them decide what kind of government they wanted.
We looked to our neighbor on the north, Germany , where Hitler had been in power since 1933. We had been told that they didn't have unemployment or crime, and they had a high standard of living. Nothing was ever said about persecution of any group -- Jewish or otherwise. We were led to believe that everyone was happy.. We wanted the same way of life in Austria .. We were promised that a vote for Hitler would mean the end of unemployment and help for the family. Hitler also said that businesses would be assisted, and farmers would get their farms back. Ninety-eight percent of the population voted to annex Austria to Germany and have Hitler for our ruler.
We were overjoyed, and for three days we danced in the streets and had candlelight parades. The new government opened up big field kitchens and everyone was fed.
After the election, German officials were appointed, and like a miracle, we suddenly had law and order. Three or four weeks later, everyone was employed. The government made sure that a lot of work was created through the Public Work Service.
Hitler decided we should have equal rights for women. Before this, it was a custom that married Austrian women did not work outside the home. An able-bodied husband would be looked down on if he couldn't support his family. Many women in the teaching profession were elated that they could retain the jobs they previously had been required to give up for marriage.
Hitler Targets Education - Eliminates Religious Instruction for Children:
Our education was nationalized. I attended a very good public school. The population was predominantly Catholic, so we had religion in our schools. The day we elected Hitler (March 13, 1938), I walked into my schoolroom to find the crucifix replaced by Hitler's picture hanging next to a Nazi flag. Our teacher, a very devout woman, stood up and told the class we wouldn't pray or have religion anymore. Instead, we sang "Deutschland, Deutschland, Uber Alles," and had physical education
Sunday became National Youth Day with compulsory attendance. Parents were not pleased about the sudden change in curriculum. They were told that if they did not send us, they would receive a stiff letter of warning the first time. The second time they would be fined the equivalent of $300, and the third time they would be subject to jail. The first two hours consisted of political indoctrination The rest of the day we had sports. As time went along, we loved it. Oh, we had so much fun and got our sports equipment free. We would go home and gleefully tell our parents about the wonderful time we had.
My mother was very unhappy. When the next term started, she took me out of public school and put me in a convent. I told her she couldn't do that and she told me that someday when I grew up, I would be grateful. There was a very good curriculum, but hardly any fun - no sports, and no political indoctrination. I hated it at first but felt I could tolerate it. Every once in a while, on holidays, I went home. I would go back to my old friends and ask what was going on and what they were doing. Their loose lifestyle was very alarming to me. They lived without religion. By that time unwed mothers were glorified for having a baby for Hitler. It seemed strange to me that our society changed so suddenly. As time went along, I realized what a great deed my mother did so that I wasn't exposed to that kind of humanistic philosophy.
Equal Rights Hits Home:
In 1939, the war started and a food bank was established. All food was rationed and could only be purchased using food stamps. At the same time, a full-employment law was passed which meant if you didn't work, you didn't get a ration card, and if you didn't have a card, you starved to death. Women who stayed home to raise their families didn't have any marketable skills and often had to take jobs more suited for men.
Soon after this, the draft was implemented. It was compulsory for young people, male and female, to give one year to the labor corps. During the day, the girls worked on the farms, and at night they returned to their barracks for military training just like the boys. They were trained to be anti-aircraft gunners and participated in the signal corps. After the labor corps, they were not discharged but were used in the front lines. When I go back to Austria to visit my family and friends, most of these women are emotional cripples because they just were not equipped to handle the horrors of combat. Three months before I turned 18, I was severely injured in an air raid attack. I nearly had a leg amputated, so I was spared having to go into the labor corps and into military service.
Hitler Restructured the Family Through Daycare:
When the mothers had to go out into the work force, the government immediately established child care centers. You could take your children ages 4 weeks to school age and leave them there around-the-clock, 7 days a week, under the total care of the government.. The state raised a whole generation of children.. There were no motherly women to take care of the children, just people highly trained in child psychology. By this time, no one talked about equal rights. We knew we had been had.
Health Care and Small Business Suffer Under Government Controls:
Before Hitler, we had very good medical care. Many American doctors trained at the University of Vienna .. After Hitler, health care was socialized, free for everyone. Doctors were salaried by the government. The problem was, since it was free, the people were going to the doctors for everything. When the good doctor arrived at his office at 8 a.m., 40 people were already waiting and, at the same time, the hospitals were full. If you needed elective surgery, you had to wait a year or two for your turn. There was no money for research as it was poured into socialized medicine. Research at the medical schools literally stopped, so the best doctors left Austria and emigrated to other countries.
As for healthcare, our tax rates went up to 80% of our income. Newlyweds immediately received a $1,000 loan from the government to establish a household. We had big programs for families. All day care and education were free. High schools were taken over by the government and college tuition was subsidized. Everyone was entitled to free handouts, such as food stamps, clothing, and housing.
We had another agency designed to monitor business. My brother-in-law owned a restaurant that had square tables. Government officials told him he had to replace them with round tables because people might bump themselves on the corners. Then they said he had to have additional bathroom facilities. It was just a small dairy business with a snack bar. He couldn't meet all the demands. Soon, he went out of business. If the government owned the large businesses and not many small ones existed, it could be in control.
We had consumer protection. We were told how to shop and what to buy. Free enterprise was essentially abolished. We had a planning agency specially designed for farmers. The agents would go to the farms, count the live-stock, then tell the farmers what to produce, and how to produce it.
"Mercy Killing" Redefined:
In 1944, I was a student teacher in a small village in the Alps . The villagers were surrounded by mountain passes which, in the winter, were closed off with snow, causing people to be isolated. So people intermarried and offspring were sometimes retarded. When I arrived, I was told there were 15 mentally retarded adults, but they were all useful and did good manual work. I knew one, named Vincent, very well. He was a janitor of the school. One day I looked out the window and saw Vincent and others getting into a van. I asked my superior where they were going. She said to an institution where the State Health Department would teach them a trade, and to read and write. The families were required to sign papers with a little clause that they could not visit for 6 months. They were told visits would interfere with the program and might cause homesickness.
As time passed, letters started to dribble back saying these people died a natural, merciful death. The villagers were not fooled. We suspected what was happening. Those people left in excellent physical health and all died within 6 months. We called this euthanasia.
The Final Steps - Gun Laws:
Next came gun registration.. People were getting injured by guns. Hitler said that the real way to catch criminals (we still had a few) was by matching serial numbers on guns. Most citizens were law abiding and dutifully marched to the police station to register their firearms. Not long after-wards, the police said that it was best for everyone to turn in their guns. The authorities already knew who had them, so it was futile not to comply voluntarily.
No more freedom of speech. Anyone who said something against the government was taken away. We knew many people who were arrested, not only Jews, but also priests and ministers who spoke up.
Totalitarianism didn't come quickly, it took 5 years from 1938 until 1943, to realize full dictatorship in Austria ... Had it happened overnight, my countrymen would have fought to the last breath. Instead, we had creeping gradualism. Now, our only weapons were broom handles. The whole idea sounds almost unbelievable that the state, little by little eroded our freedom.
This is an eye witness account. It's true...those of us who sailed past the Statue of Liberty came to a country of unbelievable freedom and opportunity.
America Truly is the Greatest Country in the World.
Don't Let Freedom Slip Away!
Kitty Werthmann - Life Under Hitler - Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoAg6h4KQnM
:sigh: I got some articles sent to me this week. One was about the camps they've built, the other was about how "emergency supplies" are being moved all over the country for use in the "event" of martial law being declared. Combine this with the agreement that Canada's troops can come over the border if martial law is enacted, and I personally think it's pretty obvious they are planning SOMETHING. Not to mention Goldman-Sachs has effectively looted the country already. Sure looks like the rats are getting ready to leave the sinking ship. God help us......
Quote from: Cardinal on November 07, 2010, 03:29:10 PM
:sigh: I got some articles sent to me this week. One was about the camps they've built, the other was about how "emergency supplies" are being moved all over the country for use in the "event" of martial law being declared. Combine this with the agreement that Canada's troops can come over the border if martial law is enacted, and I personally think it's pretty obvious they are planning SOMETHING. Not to mention Goldman-Sachs has effectively looted the country already. Sure looks like the rats are getting ready to leave the sinking ship. God help us......
Can you explain this more? What kind of camps do you mean and what do you think "they" are planning, and by "they" do you mean the American government? Sorry, I might be a bit slow but I have no idea what's going on lol.
:cloud9: Molly is more knowledgeable about all of it, as is WW, maybe some others.......to sum it up, our government has been building "interrment camps" in our country for a "national emergency"......say like the collapse of the financial system, ect......
Google for FEMA camps. http://freedomfiles.org/war/fema.htm
Or FEMA coffins. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3zSDdm-SHI
http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=fema+camps+alex+jones&meta=
And many articles supporting the above.
And as usual many debunking articles like this one:
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090114181653AAQa1gJ
Freaky. So do you think the government is planning something or do you think they are just expecting a national crisis to happen?
It's been going on for a long time--I would take it back to 1913, but even before that inroads had been made.
You have to understand that when a sitting president was assassinated in broad daylight in front of tv cameras--and the perpetrators got away with it--they were home free. It's been just a matter of time since then. I do believe Kennedy was our last real president.
A lot of things go on behind the scenes that people will never be aware of--there are a lot of brave and loyal people in this country--unsung heros.
And, the american people, clueless as they often seem to be, are made of different stuff than other countries, and can be pushed too far, as we are seeing now. The ones that left their countries of origin for freedom and liberty are able to take action on the basis of an idea--I feel that this Spirit and ideal is in their genes.
The evil ones have their plans and Jesus has his. So, we'll see.
Are these places for refuges, in case of earthquakes, asteroid collisions perhaps?
Maybe their intention is not as sinister as conspiracy theorists make out.
the film deep impact showed that the goverment has a large holding facility for 1 milliion survivors.
Perhaps they don't want to make the news public to avoid mass panic and fear of asteroid collision, being a potential reality.
Quote from: TTPerhaps they don't want to make the news public to avoid mass panic and fear of asteroid collision, being a potential reality.
Yeah, and maybe the moon is made of green cheese. :happygrin:
We're talking about people who couldn't tell the truth if their lives depended on it.
Watch Glenn Beck Tues night. He claims he is going to reveal some interesting info. Not that I trust him, either, but the evil ones always warn before they act. It's part of their satanic 'moral' code.
:cloud9: Fact "1" and fact "2" together don't necessarily mean anything, but when you look at facts 1-30 all together, it becomes a lot more obvious that there really are certain individuals on this planet who have "sold their souls to the devil" for the "right" to control everyone else.
I personally think the creation of the corporate structure signalled the downfall, as it put individuals into a nearly (before this) unheard of position of gaining enormous personal wealth, essentially creating "kings" with their own kingdom. If we lived in biblical era days or even the middle ages, they would be kings.
Man's greed and selfishness being what it is, it was only a matter of time, before they grew tired of JUST ruling over their own little "kingdoms". These are the people who have banded together to decide things about the rest of us, that they were neither elected nor qualified to do. But the love of money is the root of all evil.
And since the US has been the main reason since it's inception, that that didn't happen worldwide in the first place, it stands to reason you must cut the head off the "snake" first, if you hope to get anywhere with becoming a new Caesar.
It only makes sense if we are to rule and reign with Him, that the "other side" would want to mimic the same thing = New World Order. The good news is, Christ wins in the end. My :2c: Blessings....
He's a dirty rotten low down Corporation Man
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HWrSUY2NzU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HWrSUY2NzU)
Quote from: eaglesway on November 09, 2010, 08:16:30 PM
He's a dirty rotten low down Corporation Man
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HWrSUY2NzU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HWrSUY2NzU)
Great song! :bigGrin:
:cloud9: :thumbsup:
:cloud9: Received this from someone.......thought it might be of interest.......
FEMA Training and Exercise plan 2010-2014 and FEMA's plea for volunteersTuesday, November 9, 2010
Notice where it's being held and check out with your state officials who will be involved (Governor, Mayor, Sheriff) and any other info you can get. Participate in your state if you want to.
Take Action!
•National Level Exercise NLE 2011 Private Sector Participation
•Strategic Foresight Initiative
Voice your opinion and share your insight on national policies when they are open for comment. Take part in events and activities throughout the year, and find other current opportunities to strengthen public-private collaboration.
National Level Exercise NLE 2011 Private Sector Participation
National Level Exercise NLE 2011 will be an operations-based exercise centered on the scenario of a catastrophic earthquake in the New Madrid Seismic Zone, encompassing four FEMA Regions (IV, V, VI and VII below) and eight Central U.S. Earthquake States: Alabama, Arkansas, Kentucky, Illinois, Indiana, Mississippi, Missouri and Tennessee. NLE 2011 will exercise initial incident response and recovery capabilities, to test and validate existing plans, policies and procedures to include the New Madrid Catastrophic Plan (currently under development). NLE 2011 will be conducted in May 2011. If you have any questions regarding NLE 2011 please contact us at Private.SectorNLE@dhs.gov.
Region IV
Serving the eight southeastern states of Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina and Tennessee
Region V
Serving IL, IN, MI, MN, OH, WI
Region VI
Serving AR, LA, NM, OK, TX
Region VII
Serving IA, KS, MO, NE
Strategic Foresight Initiative
The goal of this Strategic Foresight Initiative is to engage the emergency management community in exploring issues, trends and other factors that could impact the future of emergency management and to expand the community's strategic planning for the future. Additional information is available at www.fema.gov/about/programs/oppa/strategic_foresight_initiative.shtm.
http://www.fema.gov/privatesector/take_action.shtm
FEMA Regions:
Region I
Serving CT, MA, ME, NH, RI, VT
Region II
Serving New Jersey, New York, Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands
Region III
Serving DC, DE, MD, PA, VA, WV
Region IV
Serving the eight southeastern states of Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina and Tennessee
Region V
Serving IL, IN, MI, MN, OH, WI
Region VI
Serving AR, LA, NM, OK, TX
Region VII
Serving IA, KS, MO, NE
Region VIII
Serving CO, MT, ND, SD, UT, WY
Region IX
Serving AZ, CA, GUAM, HI, NV, CNMI, RMI, FSM, American Samoa
Region X
Supporting the citizens and first responders of Alaska, Idaho, Oregon and Washington
http://www.fema.gov/about/regions/index.shtm
http://publicintelligence.net/fema-region-x-multi-year-training-and-exercise-plan-2010-2014/
10 kingdoms...
yikes. :mshock:
I find your beliefs strange, you believe in conspiracy theories, but yet do not believe the end times bible, hmm, looks like some people here cannot handle the truth, that is fine, but why argue against those who can handle the truth.
Peace.
Quote from: thinktank on November 10, 2010, 03:54:40 PM
I find your beliefs strange, you believe in conspiracy theories, but yet do not believe the end times bible, hmm, looks like some people here cannot handle the truth, that is fine, but why argue against those who can handle the truth.
Peace.
who or what are you referring to? :dontknow:
Quote from: Molly on November 10, 2010, 03:59:33 PM
Quote from: thinktank on November 10, 2010, 03:54:40 PM
I find your beliefs strange, you believe in conspiracy theories, but yet do not believe the end times bible, hmm, looks like some people here cannot handle the truth, that is fine, but why argue against those who can handle the truth.
Peace.
who or what are you referring to? :dontknow:
Nobody in particular, but people in general who cannot handle the truth of the end times, but yet believe in conspiracy theories of global government.
Since the beginning of mankind some people try to rule the world.
So I think greedy people on itself are not proof of end times (happening now)....
Quote from: TTNobody in particular, but people in general who cannot handle the truth of the end times, but yet believe in conspiracy theories of global government.
What is the truth of the end times that people can't handle?
We already have the structure of a global govt in place, in case you haven't noticed,-- it is just ramping up its controls. So that takes it out of the 'theory' realm, although it could still qualify as a conspiracy.
"conspiracy"An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.
:cloud9: @ TT......when you've read as much as Molly has on who's doing what where, you tend to value their opinion on what's going on in the real world. I consider it the "being as wise as a serpent part", so we can pray, at the very least.....My :2c:
Quote from: Cardinal on November 10, 2010, 05:05:39 PM
:cloud9: @ TT......when you've read as much as Molly has on who's doing what where, you tend to value their opinion on what's going on in the real world. I consider it the "being as wise as a serpent part", so we can pray, at the very least.....My :2c:
As long as one feeds on "conspiracy" and the Word, nervousness and fear is the only out come.
:cloud9: I am not afraid, but I am alert to the wiles of the enemy coming thru this generation. More than once, HE has drawn my attention of things to pray down, and I KNEW they would not pass before they went to the vote, for that reason. We have authority thru Him and are expected to use it as He directs. My :2c: Blessings....
!?
:sigh:
Posted By Dr. Mercola | November 11 2010 | 6,279 views
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Over the past 15 years or so, a collection of five giant biotech corporations -- Monsanto, Syngenta, Bayer, Dow and DuPont -- have bought up more than 200 other companies, allowing them to dominate access to seeds.
The takeover has been so dramatic that it is becoming difficult for farmers to find alternatives. As a result, in the U.S., 90 percent of soybeans are genetically-modified, and many conventional farmers have trouble obtaining non-genetically modified seeds.
According to The Ecologist:
"...
- ne solution to restricting their control would be through banning the practice of granting patents on seeds, plants and genes. A patent gives a company exclusive rights to sell and develop a new invention. In the case of patents on plants and genes it grants them temporary monopolies and bans farmers from saving seeds".
Sources:
The Ecologist October 7, 2010
Grist October 20, 2010
Dr. Mercola's Comments:
At this point, a mere FIVE companies – biotechnology companies at that -- own the vast majority of all worldwide seeds. The enormous ramifications of this should be fairly obvious.
Genetically modified (GM) seeds, particularly corn and soy, have already taken over in many areas of the world, effectively eliminating the use of conventional and "heirloom" seeds, and along with them, the ancient, sustainable farming practices that produces healthful food.
For example, in the US, as of 2009 genetically modified (GM) soybeans accounted for 91 percent of the soybean market. Eighty-five percent of all corn grown was GM, as well as 88 percent of all cotton.
Many pro-GM crop fanatics argue that genetically engineered (GM) crops are superior in a number of ways, but evidence to the contrary is all around us...
Five Biotech Giants Now Control the Global Seed Market
The illustration below, provided by The Ecologist, shows how five biotech giants have gobbled up seed companies, large and small alike, across the world, with Monsanto clearly leading the pack.
Since the 1980s, Monsanto has become the world leader in genetic modification of seeds and has won at least 674 biotechnology patents, more than any other company.
This is not surprising, considering they invest over $2 million a day on research and development!
But Monsanto is not only patenting their own GMO seeds. They have also succeeded in slapping patents on a large number of common crop seeds, in essence patenting life forms for the first time -- without a single vote of the people or Congress.
By doing this, Monsanto has become the sole owner of many of the very seeds necessary to support the world's food supply ... an incredibly powerful position that no for-profit company should ever hold.
The other heavyweights are Syngenta, Bayer, Dow, and DuPont.
Combined, they have acquired more than 200 seed companies in the past 15 years. And together, they not only threaten the continuation of sustainable, renewable farming practices, their monopoly over the food supply threatens the health of every single person on the planet.
The Impact of GM Seed Monopoly
Farmers are now increasingly forced to use GM seeds simply because there are so few alternative sources of seeds remaining. The effect of this is that we're losing renewable agriculture – the age-old practice of saving and replanting seeds from one harvest to the next.
As mentioned in The Ecologist, one solution to this growing problem would be to make patenting seeds, plants, and genes illegal. As it stands now, each GM seed is patented and sold under exclusive rights. Therefore, farmers must purchase the GM seeds anew each year, because saving seeds is considered to be patent infringement. Anyone who does save GM seeds must pay a license fee to actually re-sow them.
This, of course, results in higher prices and reduced product options.
Add in the increased need for pesticides and herbicides that GM crops require and the ever rising cost of these products, and what you end up with is a far more expensive crop that has the potential to not only fail more frequently than conventional crops, but that can also be extremely harmful to the animals and humans who eat them.
(For more information about the health hazards involved, please see What You Must Know About Dangerous Genetically Modified Foods.)
Talk about a lose-lose-lose situation.
GM Crops = Higher Costs, Lower Yields, and Far More Dangerous Foods
Two years ago, 400 scientists from around the world created a report that shows how seed and plant patents are increasing, as opposed to reducing, costs as promised. For example, between 1996, when GE seeds were introduced to the market, and 2007, the price for soy and corn seeds doubled.
But the price farmers pay for using GM seeds do not end there.
Heartbreaking proof of the devastating effect of this agricultural change can be seen in the skyrocketing suicide rate in India, where rising debt combined with frequent GM crop failures bring farmers to the brink of despair on a daily basis.
Africa is another nation that has been negatively impacted by GM crops.
SeattleGlobalJustice.org recently reported that "in 2009, Monsanto's genetically modified maize failed to produce kernels and hundreds of farmers were devastated. According to Mariam Mayet, environmental attorney and director of the Africa Centre for Biosafety in Johannesburg, some farmers suffered up to an 80 percent crop failure."
GM crops were brought to market with the promise of higher yields, lower costs, and reduced pesticide use. None of them have turned out to be true...
On the contrary, GM soya has decreased yields by up to 20 percent compared with non-GM soya, for example, and up to 100 percent failures of Bt cotton have been recorded in India.
In the US, studies by scientists from the USDA and the University of Georgia has shown that growing GM cotton can result in a drop in income by up to 40 percent.
As for pesticide use, USDA data shows that GM crops has increased pesticide use by 50 million pounds from 1996 to 2003 in the U.S., and the use of glyphosate went up more than 15-fold between 1994 and 2005, along with increases in other herbicides to cope with rising glyphosate resistant superweeds.
These Roundup tolerant superweeds and Bt resistant pests render the two major GM crop traits completely useless...
Not only that, we now have confirmed transgene contamination in the wild.
Although Monsanto and others denied this possibility, this was long ago predicted and precisely what one would expect.
Scientists have recently confirmed that the genome (whether plant, animal or human) is NOT constant and static, which is the scientific base for genetic engineering of plants and animals. Instead, geneticists have discovered that the genome is remarkably dynamic and changeable, constantly 'conversing' and adapting to the environment.
In reality, GM crops are a scientific experiment based on flawed assumptions, and anything is possible – and I can strongly guarantee you, it isn't good, and it won't get any better.
The report, 'Future of seeds and food', published last year by the international coalition of No Patents on Seeds, calls out for an end to patenting seeds, plants, and animals, and the need to stop the food monopoly created by Big Biotech. And I agree, little could be more important at this point in time.
There are already clear indications that unless the GM seed monopoly is put to an end, our whole ENTIRE food supply will become contaminated, putting everyone's health at risk.
How?
Many conventional and organic livestock farmers alike are now being forced to use GM feed, simply because there are no other options available!
Situation is Actually Worse than We Knew
Not only do we have the problems that have been previously discussed over the years with GM crops but there are some new elements to the equation. For now even those that are convinced of the dangers of GMO crops and want to avoid using them simply are unable to in some cases.
I recently received a personal letter from one such farmer, who runs a small ecological farm in Ohio. Even though she is dedicated to organic farming, she is now finding herself in the unthinkable predicament of being forced to buy Monsanto GM corn feed for her pigs and chickens.
Here is her story:
Be Part of the Solution
In spite of what you have likely heard, a large shift to organic agriculture -- which by definition is non-GM -- could protect and improve both the environment and animal- and human health.
It could even be the solution to world hunger. According to a Danish study presented to the U.N. in 2007, recent models of an organically grown, global food supply shows that a more environmentally friendly approach to agriculture is in fact capable of producing enough food for the world's current population.
What prevents many farmers from making the move to organic is that crop yields could initially drop as much as 50 percent in the very beginning, before evening out over time. However, that problem may be mitigated somewhat, because farmers wouldn't need to dole out precious money for toxic pesticides, the price of which have risen as much as 75 percent already.
Unfortunately, while we're waiting for the leaders of the world to catch up and realize the dire straits we're in as a species, we're running out of time. As evidenced by Cappello's story above, our ability to produce organic foods is under constant attack.
So, please, do not wait for some unspecified time in the future.
Instead, do what you can NOW to promote local organic food producers no matter where you live by taking advantage of local sources of organic foods as often as you can.
In addition, please take every measure you can to avoid as many GM foods as you possibly can. Here's a list of tips to help you do just that:
•Reduce or eliminate processed foods. Some 75 percent of processed foods contain GM ingredients.
•Read produce and food labels. When looking at a product label, if any ingredients such as corn flour and meal, dextrin, starch, soy sauce, margarine, and tofu (to name a few) are listed, there's a good chance it has come from GM corn or soy, unless it's listed as organic.
•Buy organic produce. Buying organic is currently the best way to ensure that your food has not been genetically modified.
•Download and use the Non-GMO Shopping Guide, and share it with your friends and family
Avoid purchasing Monsanto-made pesticides
:sigh: From Glenn Beck's site....
Soros Exposed: Research on the Progressive Puppet Master
November 11, 2010 - 1:10 ET
For months, Glenn has been pulling back the structure progressives have worked decades to put in place. Beneath every layer lies one common thread: George Soros. Tonight on TV, Glenn presents an in-depth look at the Puppet Master, billionaire financier George Soros, one of the most powerful forces in the Progressive Movement. But don't just take Glenn's word for it. Read. Analyze. Do your own homework and come to your own conclusions - read below to fact check all the sources used on tonight's show.
Get more in Glenn's free email newsletter
BACKGROUND
"Messianic Fantasies"
- "It is sort of a disease when you consider yourself some kind of god, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out," (The Independent, June 3, 1993)
- "I admit that I have always harbored an exaggerated view of self-importance –to put it bluntly, I fancied myself as some kind of god or an economic reformer like Keynes or, even better, a scientist like Einstein," (The Alchemy of Finance, George Soros)
- According to friend Byron Wien (now with the Blackstone Group), "You must understand he thinks he's been anointed by God to solve insoluble problems. The proof is that he has been so successful at making so much. He therefore thinks he has a responsibility to give money away," (Time Magazine, Sept 1, 1997)
- "If truth be known, I carried some rather potent messianic fantasies with me from childhood which I felt I had to control, otherwise I might end up in the loony bin. But when I made my way in the world I wanted to indulge myself in my fantasies to the extent that I could afford."
- George Soros 60 Minutes Interview - 12/20/98 / Transcript:
KROFT: Are you religious?
Mr. SOROS: No.
KROFT: Do you believe in God?
Mr. SOROS: No.
KROFT: (Voiceover) Soros told us he believes God was created by man, not the other way around, which may be why he thinks he can smooth out the world's imperfections.
"THE MAN WHO BROKE THE BANK OF ENGLAND"
- "As September 15 wore on, George Soros's confidence that Britain would pull the pound out of the ERM was growing. It had been Stanley Druckenmiller who had thought the time ripe for making a bet against the sterling. He talked to Soros about doing something. Soros gave him the green light but urged his head trader to bet an even larger sum than Druckenmiller had in mind. And so Druckenmiller, acting for Soros, sold $10 billion worth of sterling... The next morning at 7:00, the phone rang at Soros's home. It was Stan Druckenmiller with news... While George Soros had slept, he racked a profit $958 million. When Soros's gains from other positions he took during the ERM crisis were tallied, he racked up close to $2 billion... It was this bet, this single act of placing $10 billion on the fact that Britain would have to devalue the pound, that made George Soros world famous," (SOROS THE UNAUTHORIZED BIOGRAPHY, pgs 5-6).
- "He famously shorted the British pound in 1992, wagering $10 billion on a drop in its value. In a desperate bid to keep its currency afloat, the Bank of England tried to buy up pounds as fast as Soros could dump them. However, as more and more investors followed Soros' lead and joined his efforts, the Bank of England eventually gave up. The British pound was devalued, launching a tsunami of financial turmoil from Tokyo to Rome. When it was over, millions of hardworking Britons confronted their diminished savings, while Soros counted his gains. He had personally made nearly $2 billion on the catastrophe," (The Shadow Party, pg. 4).
- Soros has said of this event: "I had no platform, so I deliberately [did] the sterling thing to create a platform. Obviously people care about the man who made a lot of money...my influence has continued to grow and I do have access to,"(Time Magazine, Sept 1, 1997)
- In 1997, during the Asian financial crisis, the then Malaysian Prime Minister, Mahathir bin Mohamad, accused him of bringing down the Malaysian currency, the ringgit, through his trading activities. In Thailand he was branded an "economic war criminal" who "sucks the blood from the people".
REVOLUTIONS
- "Just write that the former Soviet Empire is now called the Soros Empire," (The New Republic, Jan 1994)
- "I am acting out a fantasy and so is Eastern Europe. A psychiatrist once told me how dangerous it is to act out fantasies and I am beginning to see what he meant," (http://www.osi.hu/oss/postscript.html)
ANTI-SEMITISM
- In a 1998 interview with Steve Kroft, Soros was asked if he felt guilty about confiscating property from Jews as a teenager. He responded, "No."
- "I don't deny the Jews their right to a national existence--but I don't want to be part of it." That experience notwithstanding, Soros has chosen to exclude Israel and Jewish causes, by and large, from his massive philanthropy-a decision that has caused comment among one of his colleagues in the financial community, particularly those who are strong supporters of Israel. In Hungary, Soros has been subject to anti-Semitic attacks. Referring to being a target, Soros, in his book "Underwriting Democracy," wrote, "I am ready to stand up and be counted." When I mentioned that rather suggestive line to Soros during one of several extended interviews with him, he responded quickly, "Right. It took me a long time."
He continued, "My mother was quite anti-Semitic, and ashamed of being Jewish. Given the culture in which one lived, being Jewish was a clear-cut stigma, disadvantage, a handicap-and, therefore, there was always the desire to transcend it, to escape it." He confirmed what someone had told me-that his family name had long ago been changed from Schwartz. "So the assimilationist Jews of Hungary had a deep sense of inferiority and it took me a long time to work through that," he said, adding, however, that he succeeded in doing so many years ago... "I am escaping the particular. I think I am doing exactly that by espousing this universal concept"-of open society. "In other words, I don't think that you can ever overcome anti-Semitism if you behave as a tribe... the only way you can overcome it is if you give up the tribalness."
(Source: THE WORLD ACCORDING TO SOROS by CONNIE BRUC, The New Yorker, January 23, 1995,)
- "As I looked around me for a worthy cause. I ran into difficulties. I did not belong to any community. As a Hungarian Jew I had never quite become an American. I had left Hungary behind and my Jewishness did not express itself in a sense of tribal loyalty that would have led me to support Israel," (http://www.osi.hu/oss/ch1.html)
Part 2
INFO ON NAME CHANGE FROM SHWARTZ TO SOROS
- Born in Hungary in 1930, Mr. Soros began life as George Schwartz. His father, Tivadar, was from humble origins; his mother, Erzebet, from money. Both were Jews, but nonobservant (she eventually converted to Catholicism). Once married, Tivadar had to work just two hours a day managing some of his wife's family property, which provided a handsome living for them and their two sons, Paul and George. At some point during the boys' childhood, the parents decided to change the family name and chose the Hungarian-sounding but in fact obscure Soros. It means "soar" (in the future tense) in Esperanto, the made-up trans-European language promoted by those who dreamed of a world free of nationality. Tivadar was among its leading proponents. (Source: The Mind of George Soros; Meet the Esperanto enthusiast who wants to save the world from President Bush, 2 March 2004, The Wall Street Journal)
- Before the end of the war, however, Soros' upper-middle-class world had inverted. The family posed as Christians and separated to hide from the Germans. They changed their name from Schwartz (considered too Jewish-sounding) to Soros (more reflective of the family's Hungarian roots and because his father liked the palindrome). (The elusive billionaire: An author tries valiantly to capture the essence of philanthropist George Soros, Vancouver Sun, 20 April 2002)
Part 3
MORE ON TIVADAR SOROS
The other day, George Soros and his older brother Paul, an engineer turned investor-philanthropist, met in the offices of Soros Fund Management to discuss their father. The occasion was the English-language publication of Tivadar Soros's wartime memoir, "Masquerade: Dancing Around Death in Nazi-Occupied Hungary," which was first published in 1965 in Esperanto, one of six languages in which Soros pere was fluent.
"It was his nature, regardless of difficulties, to believe that one must behave like a human being and one must make the most of life," Paul Soros said, explaining the charm and ebullience of his father, who, in the book, is described by his five-year-old son George as "a married bachelor," and who, even when living semi-reclusively under an assumed Christian identity, never missed his daily swim. "I remember during the siege we went to the opera, because at a time when there was no food the opera still served very nice hors d'oeuvres and patisserie. Whether or not it was prudent, the idea was that you should make the most of your circumstances."
George, who, like Paul, has inherited his father's broad face, pointed out that Tivadar's fondness for the comforts of bourgeois life was not accompanied by a docile bourgeois sensibility. "We didn't preserve ordinariness," George said. "He made us very conscious that these were extraordinary times and that the normal rules didn't apply." In the book, Tivadar writes that at one point young George was required by the authorities to deliver notices to certain Jews that they should report to the Rabbinical Seminary with blankets and food. "This was a profoundly important experience for me," George said. "My father said, 'You should go ahead and deliver them, but tell the people that if they report they will be deported.' The reply from one man was 'I am a law-abiding citizen. They can't do anything to me.' I told my father, and that was an occasion for a lecture that there are times when you have laws that are immoral, and if you obey them you perish."
"Masquerade" contains a great deal of black social comedy; a running theme is Tivadar's efforts to convince his recalcitrant mother-in-law that, all things considered, it really would be best if she stopped regarding the occupation as a personal insult. ("I refuse to go anywhere if the people don't know who I am and I have to pretend I'm somebody else all the time," she said of his attempts to find a safe house for her.) Tivadar's own ease with his assumed identity-he grew a mustache, and went by Elek Szabo-led him, one day during an air raid, to tell a neighbor in the shelter about the time he approached the podium on which Hitler was standing at the 1936 Winter Olympics, just to see how close he could get. "Hardly fifteen minutes had passed after my tale when there was suddenly a great commotion," Tivadar wrote. "The shelter commander appeared, surrounded by several officers. . . . It transpired that the air-defense commander, in great excitement that there was someone present who had seen Hitler, had radioed headquarters and a group had come over right away to see this privileged person."
Tivadar's energies, though, were largely devoted to the extremely serious business of procuring papers to save relatives and friends from a new, unimaginable form of terror. "My father was ahead of the curve, because he recognized the moment the Germans came in that this was a different world and one had to act differently," George said. He and Paul agreed that they still try to live by their father's resourceful example. "The funny thing is that in character we probably both inherited a lot more from our mother," George said.
Part 4
GLOBALIZATION
- Soros has long been calling for increased globalization. In "The Crisis of Global Capitalism," 1998 he writes: "To stabilize and regulate a truly global economy, we need some global system of political decision-making. In short, we need a global society to support our global economy. A global society does not mean a global state. To abolish the existence of states is neither feasible nor desirable; but insofar as there are collective interests that transcend state boundaries, the sovereignty of states must be subordinated to international law and international institutions. Interestingly, the greatest opposition to this idea is coming from the United States. But there has never been a time when a strong lead from the U.S. and other like-minded countries could achieve such powerful and benign results. With the right sense of leadership and with clarity of purpose, the U.S. and its allies could help to stabilize the global economic system and to extend and uphold universal human values. The opportunity is waiting to be grasped."
(Source: The Crisis of Global Capitalism.(book excerpt), George Soros, 7 December 1998, Newsweek)
- During this year he called for greater authority to institutions such as the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and for an International Credit Insurance Corp. to establish some kind of supervision over national supervisory authorities and stated, "At the same time, there remains the urgent need for Congress to authorise an increase in the capital of the IMF." He admitted that such "radical ideas" could not even be considered until Congress "changes its attitude toward international institutions in general and the IMF in particular."
(Source: Soros calls for global credit insurance agency, 15 September 1998, Reuters News)
- Soros has said that the United States would cease to be the world's undisputed dominant force. "The veto power that we have in the International Monetary Fund will disappear. We will be downsized. At the same time, hopefully, we will have a better working system and opponents will be more downsized than we will."
(Source: BOSTON, Oct. 29 -- Massachusetts Institute of Technology press release via Factiva)
- "The Bubble of American Supremacy,": "The disparity between private goods and public goods manifests itself in a number of ways. First, there is a growing inequality between rich and poor, both within countries and among countries. Admittedly, globalisation is not a zero-sum game: its benefits exceed the costs in the sense that the increased wealth produced by globalisation could be used to make up for the inequities and other shortcomings of globalisation and there would still be some extra wealth left over.
The trouble is that the winners do not compensate the losers either within states or between states. The welfare state as we know it has become unsustainable and international income redistribution is practically nonexistent. Total international assistance amounted to $US56.5 billion ($74.4 billion) in 2002. This amount represents only 0.18 per cent of global GDP. As a result, the gap between the rich and the poor continues to grow."
(Source: Edited extract from The Bubble of American Supremacy by George Soros via The Sydney Morning Herald, February 4, 2004)
KARL POPPER
SOROS' PHILOSOPHY
- At the London School of Economics, Soros discovered the work of philosopher Karl Popper, whose ideas on open society had a profound influence on his thinking. He was attracted to Popper's critique of totalitarianism, The Open Society and Its Enemies, which maintained that societies can only flourish when they allow democratic governance, freedom of expression, a diverse range of opinion, and respect for individual rights. Later, working as a trader and analyst, he adapted Popper to develop his own "theory of reflexivity," a set of ideas that seeks to explain the relationship between thought and reality, which he used to predict, among other things, the emergence of financial bubbles. Soros began to apply his theory to investing and concluded that he had more talent for trading than for philosophy. In 1967 he helped establish an offshore investment fund; and in 1973 he set up a private investment firm that eventually evolved into the Quantum Fund, one of the first hedge funds. http://www.soros.org/about/bios/staff/george-soros
QUOTES FROM "The Open Society and Its Enemies: Hegel and Marx," by Karl Popper (Vol. 2), by Karl Popper
- The development of capitalism has led to the elimination of all classes but two, a small bourgeiouse and a huge proletariat: and the increase of misery has forced the latter to revolt against its exploiters. The conclusions are, first, that the workers must win the struggle, secondly that, by eliminating bourgeiouse, they must establish a classless society, since only one class remains. (pg 151-152)
- But all over the earth, organized political power has begun to perform far-reaching economic functions. Unrestrained capitalism has given way to a new historical period, to our own period of political interventionism, of the economic interference of the state. Interventionism has assumed various forms. There is the Russian variety; there is the fascist form of totalitarianism; and their s the domestic interventionism of England, of the United States, and the "Smaller Democracies" led by Sweden where the technology of democratic intervention has reached the highest level so far. (pg 155)
- Admittedly, increasing misery must produce resistance, and it is even likely to produce rebellious outbreaks. But the assumption of our argument is that the misery cannot be alleviated until victory has been won in the social revolution. (pg 163)
- I am not in all cases and under all circumstance against a violent revolution. (pg 166)
- ...the working of democracy rests largely upon the understanding that a government which attempts to misuse its powers and to establish itself as a tyranny (or which tolerates the establishment of a tyranny by anybody else) outlaws itself, and that the citizens have not only a right, but also a duty to consider the action of such government a crime, and its members as a dangerous gang of criminals. (pg 167)
Part 5
MORE ABOUT KARL POPPER
http://www.hoover.org/publications/hoover-digest/article/8018
- Although compelled to leave his native Austria in the 1930s (because of his Jewish ancestry), his book is remarkably free from personal bitterness or sadness.
- He did not shrink from tracing the sources of those dangerous ideas to Marx, to Hegel, and even to that greatest of all philosophers, Plato. At a time when many intellectuals had lost faith in democracy, Popper offered a spirited defense of democratic principles and outlined a compelling vision of a society grounded in democratic reforms.
- Popper was a fallibilist, one who perceives great error and danger in any theory of knowledge—or regime—that claimed to offer certain truth. In such a system, there would be no incentive to establish social and political structures that promote learning or the free exchange of ideas; truth is already at hand. In the name of historical progress, the regime may then justify the squelching of human freedoms and even atrocities on a grand scale.
- George Soros, who first encountered The Open Society as Popper's student at the London School of Economics, founded the Open Society Institute to propagate Popper's ideas, particularly in Eastern Europe. Thus the political philosophy Popper first articulated before the start of the Cold War is now being studied and put into practice in countries newly emerging from behind the Iron Curtain.
- He left school at age sixteen and began auditing lectures at the University of Vienna. Although a Marxist as a teenager, he was repelled in 1919 by the leftist-inspired street violence of postwar Vienna that resulted in the deaths of demonstrators. That same year, he studied Freud's psychoanalysis and worked for a time with psychiatrist Alfred Adler.
- In 1922 he matriculated at the University of Vienna. To support himself, he apprenticed himself to a cabinetmaker and took up social work. Pursuing his goal of becoming a schoolteacher, Popper subsequently returned to the university. In 1928, he earned a Ph.D. in philosophy and, in 1929, a teacher's certificate. Beginning in the late 1920s, Popper began interacting with members of the famous Vienna Circle of logical positivists, a group of prominent intellectuals trying to articulate the importance of science for philosophy. Shortly after publishing (in German) a then little-noticed but classic work on the logical foundations of science in 1934, Popper left Austria under the threat of Nazi anti-Semitism. From New Zealand, where he had obtained a university teaching post, he returned to England after World War II as professor of philosophy of science at the London School of Economics, where he remained until his retirement.
SOROS' CURRENT TIES
SOROS AND PRESIDENT OBAMA
- In December 2006, Soros met with presidential hopeful Barack Obama in Soros' New York office. Soros had previously hosted a fundraiser for Obama during his 2004 campaign for the Senate.
- On January 16, 2007, Obama announce the creation of a presidential exploratory committee and within hours Soros sent a contribution of $2,100, the maximum allowable under campaign finance laws.
- Days after Obama was elected in November of 2008, Soros said in an interview "I think we need a large stimulus package which will provide funds for state and local government to maintain their budgets – because they are not allowed by the constitution to run a deficit. For such a program to be successful, the federal government would need to provide hundreds of billions of dollars. In addition, another infrastructure program is necessary. In total, the cost would be in the 300 to 600 billion dollar range." Since then, Congress passed a $787 billion stimulus and Obama very recently introduced a $50 billion plan to improve the country's transportation program, saying "I want America to have the best infrastructure in the world."
- In that same interview, Soros called for cap & trade: "I think this is a great opportunity to finally deal with global warming and energy dependence. The US needs a cap and trade system with auctioning of licenses for emissions rights. I would use the revenues from these auctions to launch a new, environmentally friendly energy policy. That would be yet another federal program that could help us to overcome the current stagnation." Since then, Congress has introduced cap & trade legislation. (More info in "going green" section)
- Also in that interview, Soros said "In 2010, the Bush tax cuts will expire and we should not extend them." Since then, Obama expressed his opposition to the Bush tax cuts in an interview with ABC on September 9th: "All those middle class folks who need tax relief hostage right now in order to provide tax breaks for the top two percent wealthiest Americans, who don't need a tax break, aren't asking for a tax break. And you know, if we could afford it, it'd be one thing. But we know that's gonna cost $700 billion over ten years. And so, that is not a smart thing to do for the economy"
- Soros is also on board with Obama's proposals to reform the banking system. In an interview with the BBC: Interviewer: Now President Obama last week announced some quite radical proposals to reform the banking system. He wants them out of what he calls "proprietary trading", using their capital to speculate on their own account, and also he wants a limit on their size. Are these constructive measures in your view? Soros: Very much so these are the right ... it goes in the right direction. In my opinion, it doesn't actually go far enough because it still leaves the problem of too big to fail. In other words, if you let's say now again Goldman Sachs gives up its banking license, it becomes then an investment bank ... January 2010, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/davos/8485029.stm
- Since Obama's been in office, Soros has made four visits to the White House
- ALSO IN HIS 2008 INTERVIEW: Soros: "I think this is a great opportunity to finally deal with global warming and energy dependence. The US needs a cap and trade system with auctioning of licenses for emissions rights. I would use the revenues from these auctions to launch a new, environmentally friendly energy policy. That would be yet another federal program that could help us to overcome the current stagnation. SPIEGEL: Your proposal would be dismissed on Wall Street as "big government." Republicans might call it European-style "socialism." Soros: That is exactly what we need now. I am against market fundamentalism. I think this propaganda that government involvement is always bad has been very successful -- but also very harmful to our society. SPIEGEL: Would you advise the new president to say that publicly? Soros: He has already spoken about changing the political discourse. I think it is better to have a government that wants to provide good government than a government that doesn't believe in government.
WILL ANOTHER FISCAL STIMULUS BE NEXT?
- "The simple truth is that the private sector does not employ available resources. Mr. Obama has in fact been very friendly to business, and corporations are operating profitably. But instead of investing, they are building up liquidity. Perhaps a Republican victory would boost their confidence, but in the meantime, investment and employment require fiscal stimulus," (Financial Times, Oct. 4, 2010)
LAUNCHING A WAR AGAINST PRESIDENT BUSH
- Soros told the Washington Post: "I have made rejection of the Bush doctrine the central project of my life... America, under Bush, is a danger to the world. And I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is."
- Also during that election: "This is the most important election of my lifetime. These aren't normal times. The ends justify every legal means possible."
Read more http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2004/10/18/041018fa_fact3?currentPage=3#ixzz0xAm1jvyV
SOROS AND VAN JONES
- Soros has also supported Van Jones – Originally through the Open Society Institute which gave the Ella Baker Center $151,800 in 2006 and $140,000 in 2007. Van Jones was head of the Ella Baker Center during those years. OSI also funded Green for All in 2008 -- they received a grant in the amount of $75,000 to "integrate the Civic Justice Corps into Green For All's campaign to create a national Clean Energy Corps." while Van Jones was running it. Van Jones later appeared as a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress. Additionally, OSI helped fund TIDES which then started the Apollo Alliance (where Van Jones sat on the board).
CAP & TRADE
- Soros is also a huge proponent of cap and trade. The sot below sounds very similar to VAN JONES' "We'renot going to put a new battery in a broken system."
SOROS: "work on a better world order where we work together to resolve problems that confront humanity like global warming. And I think that dealing with global warming will require a lot of investment. SOROS: You see, for the last 25 years the world economy, the motor of the world economy that has been driving it was consumption by the American consumer who has been spending more than he has been saving, all right? Than he's been producing. So that motor is now switched off. It's finished. It's run out of — can't continue. You need a new motor. And we have a big problem. Global warming. It requires big investment. And that could be the motor of the world economy in the years to come...Instead of consuming, building an electricity grid, saving on energy, rewiring the houses, adjusting your lifestyle where energy has got to cost more until it you introduce those new things. So it will be painful. But at least we will survive and not cook. MOYERS: You're talking about this being the end of an era and needing to create a whole new paradigm for the economic model of the country, of the world, right?
GEORGE SOROS: Yes.
VIDEO: http://green.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/14/george-soros-on-the-green-energy-economy/
MORE ON GREEN INITIATIVES
- In 2009, Soros announced the formation of the Climate Policy Initiative to address global warming, and said he would fund it with $10 million a year over 10 years
- Friends of the Earth is another group that receives Soros money. In 2008 they received $50,000 from OSI to "build and support an international network of organizations dedicated to improving the environmental, social and developmental impacts of Chinese overseas investments." Friends of the Earth also received $180,000 from Tides Foundation in 2008 to "integrate a climate equity perspective in the presidential transition."
THE OPEN SOCIETY INSTITUTE
- Soros started Open Society in 1993
- Soros has given away over $7 billion to "support human rights, freedom of expression, and access to public health and education in 70 countries."
- Up to $425 million donated annually
- Aryeh Neier is the president of the Open Society Institute and Soros foundations network. "Neier personally created the radical group Students for a Democratic Society in 1959... He worked for the American Civil Liberties Union for fifteen years," (The Shadow Party, pg 23).
- Open Society Foundations recently pledged its largest donation ever to Human Rights Watch in the amount of $100 million to be distributed over 10 years
- Richard Poe writes, "Through his global web of Open Society Institutes and Open Society Foundations, Soros has spent 25 years recruiting, training, indoctrinating and installing a network of loyal operatives in 50 countries, placing them in positions of influence and power in media, government, finance and academia."
- Some organizations that have received support from OSI:
o Center for American Progress
o Tides Foundation
o Campaign for America's Future
o National Council of La Raza
o ACORN
o Apollo Alliance
o Center for Community Change
o Free Press
o MoveOn.org
- Top 20 grant recipients in 2008 (the most recent OSI filing)
o International Crisis Group $5,000,000
o Ministry of Education Republic of Liberia $4,250,000
o Drug Policy Alliance $4,000,000
o Media Development Loan Fund $3,900,000
o Bard College $3,094,539
o Proteus Fund Inc $3,000,000
o The Revenue Watch Institute $3,000,000
o The Tides Foundation $2,875,000
o The Mayors Fund to Advance New York City $2,512,415
o Center on Budget and Policy Priorities $2,107,000
o Public Interest Projects $1,700,000
o The Tides Center $1,396,681
o Center for Community Change $1,362,500
o Leadership Conference on Civil Rights education $1,320,000
o Fund for the European University $1,100,000
o Center for New York City Neighborhoods $1,050,000
o American Civil Liberties Union Foundation $1,000,000
o Center for American Progress $1,000,000
o Foundation to Promote Open Society $1,000,000
o Link Media Inc $1,000,000
(Source: Open Society Institute, IRS Form 990-PF, 2008)
CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS
- Early in 2003, Soros pledged $3 Million over 3 years to the think tank
- He awarded $1 Million in grants to Center for American Progress for 2008/2009
- The group was largely set up to prevent Bush from gaining re-election in 2004. Soros told the Washington Post: "I have made rejection of the Bush doctrine the central project of my life... America, under Bush, is a danger to the world. And I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is."
- The organization is headed by John Podesta
- Van Jones is currently a senior fellow
- In its first year, CAP took in more than $10 million
- In 2006, CAP launched a network of liberal religious leaders called Faith in Public Life to "fuel this burgeoning faith movement with cutting edge strategies and capacity-building resources"
- CAP's campus Progress, with a staff of 15 and a large network of student advisers, offers money and guidance to help college activists launch initiatives and newspapers
- CAP has a congressional outreach staff and aides dedicated to booking its experts on talk shows. It has a studio that offers daily taped segments and talking points for radio hosts, and it broadcasts liberal radio host Ed Schultz's show when he's in town.
TIDES
- 2008 funding from Open Society Institute to Tides (latest year for which the OSI has filed a Form 990 document with the IRS):
The Tides Center: $1.354 million
Tides Foundation: $2.875 million
Total: $4.229 million
- Drummond Pike is Founder & CEO of Tides Foundation. He is also Treasurer of Democracy Alliance, a group that was founded with major financial backing from member George Soros.
- The Apollo Alliance is a project of the Tides Center.
o Van Jones is a former board member
o Apollo Alliance helped to design and promote the stimulus bill which included $110 billion for "green spending"
SOJOURNERS
- Open Society gave Sojourners a $200,000 grant in 2004, $25,000 in 2006, and $100,000 in 2007.
THE QUANTUM FUND
- Soros launched the Quantum Fund after immigration to America from London in 1956. It was one of the world's first private hedge funds.
- Soros recently passed much of the fund's management to his two grown sons, Robert and Jonathan
- The fund, which is registered in the Netherlands Antilles, turned an original investment of six million dollars, in 1969, into five and a half billion dollars by 1999.
AMERICAN CONSTITUTION SOCIETY
The American Constitution Society is a left-wing legal activist group working to change our nation's laws and approaches towards law enforcement. One of its areas of focus is constitutional interpretation and change.
OPEN SOCIETY INSTITUTE DISCLOSED GRANTS TO ACS
Grants disclosed on George Soros' Open Society Institute's Form 990 tax filings to American Constitution Society for Law and Policy (ACS) going back to 2002 (with the exception of the 2005 filing which could not be searched electronically). Open Society's 2002 filing referenced that the grant was designated for start-up of ACS. Adding all the totals from each year below (excluding 2005) comes to $14,602,850.
2008 funding: $3.65 million
2007 funding: $4.5 million
2006 funding: $5,025,000
2004 funding: $676,800
2003 funding: $251,050
2002 funding: $500,000
Quote from: Cardinal on November 11, 2010, 03:53:29 AM
:cloud9: I am not afraid, but I am alert to the wiles of the enemy coming thru this generation. More than once, HE has drawn my attention of things to pray down, and I KNEW they would not pass before they went to the vote, for that reason. We have authority thru Him and are expected to use it as He directs. My :2c: Blessings....
This is true Godly authority :thumbsup: don't let anyone steal this from you cardinal, this is a good example of how to use authority for that which is good with good character.
:cloud9: Definitely something to pray over.....
http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/articles/20101110
See also Russian Expert Suggests "Mystery Missile" Fired by Non-US Military
Pentagon and its embedded media covering up Chinese show of force off LA
Wayne Madsen Report
November 10, 2010
China flexed its military muscle Monday evening in the skies west of Los Angeles
when a Chinese Navy Jin class ballistic missile nuclear submarine, deployed
secretly from its underground home base on the south coast of Hainan island,
launched an intercontinental ballistic missile from international waters off the
southern California coast. WMR's intelligence sources in Asia, including Japan,
say the belief by the military commands in Asia and the intelligence services is
that the Chinese decided to demonstrate to the United States its capabilities on
the eve of the G-20 Summit in Seoul and the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation
summit in Tokyo, where President Obama is scheduled to attend during his ten-day
trip to Asia.
The reported Chinese missile test off Los Angeles came as a double blow to
Obama. The day after the missile firing, China's leading credit rating agency,
Dagong Global Credit Rating, downgraded sovereign debt rating of the United
States to A-plus from AA. The missile demonstration coupled with the downgrading
of the United States financial grade represents a military and financial show of
force by Beijing to Washington.
The Pentagon spin machine, backed by the media reporters who regularly cover the
Defense Department, as well as officials of the Federal Aviation Administration
(FAA), North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD), and the U.S. Northern
Command, is now spinning various conspiracy theories, including describing the
missile plume videotaped by KCBS news helicopter cameraman Gil Leyvas at around
5:00 pm Pacific Standard Time, during the height of evening rush hour, as the
condensation trail from a jet aircraft. Other Pentagon-inspired cover stories
are that the missile was actually an amateur rocket or an optical illusion.
Experts agree that this was a ballistic missile being fired off of Los Angeles.
Pentagon insists it was a jet aircraft or model rocket.
There are no records of a plane in the area having taken off from Los Angeles
International Airport or from other airports in the region. The Navy and Air
Force have said that they were not conducting any missile tests from submarines,
ships, or Vandenberg Air Force Base. The Navy has also ruled out an accidental
firing from one of its own submarines.
Missile experts, including those from Jane's in London, say the plume was
definitely from a missile, possibly launched from a submarine. WMR has learned
that the missile was likely a JL-2 ICBM, which has a range of 7,000 miles, and
was fired in a northwesterly direction over the Pacific and away from U.S.
territory from a Jin class submarine. The Jin class can carry up to twelve such
missiles.
Navy sources have revealed that the missile may have impacted on Chinese
territory and that the National Security Agency (NSA) likely posseses intercepts
of Chinese telemtry signals during the missile firing and subsequent testing
operations.
Japanese and other Asian intelligence agencies believe that a Chinese Jin-class
SSBN submarine conducted missile "show of force" in skies west of Los Angeles.
Asian intelligence sources believe the submarine transited from its base on
Hainan through South Pacific waters, where U.S. anti-submarine warfare detection
capabilities are not as effective as they are in the northern and mid-Pacific,
and then transited north to waters off of Los Angeles. The Pentagon, which has
spent billions on ballistic missile defense systems, a pet project of former
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, is clearly embarrassed over the Chinese show
of strength.
Likely route of Jin-class submarine from Hainan base.
The White House also wants to donwplay the missile story before Presidnet Obama
meets with his Chinese counterpart in Seoul and Tokyo. According to Japanese
intelligence sources, Beijing has been angry over United States and allied naval
exercises in the South China and Yellow Seas, in what China considers its sphere
of influence, and the missile firing within the view of people in Southern
California was a demonstration that China's navy can also play in waters off the
American coast.
For the U.S. Navy, the Chinese show of force is a huge embarassment, especially
for the Navy's Pacific Command in Pearl Harbor, where Japan's December 7, 1941
attack on the fleet at Pearl Harbor remains a sore subject.
In 2002, national security adviser Condoleezza Rice reportedly scolded visiting
Chinese General Xiong Guankai, the deputy chief of staff for intelligence of the
People's Liberation Army, for remarks he allegedly made in 1995 that China would
use nuclear weapons on Los Angeles. Xiong denied he made any such comments but
the "spin" on the story helped convince Congress to sink billions of additional
dollars into ballistic missile defense, sometimes referred to at "Star Wars
II."
Tech Video | Audio
United States Supreme Court Will Soon Issue a Landmark Decision on the Validity of the Constitution
Nov 13 01:55 AM US/Eastern
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ATLANTA, Nov. 13, 2010 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The United States Supreme Court will soon issue a landmark decision on the validity of the Constitution. The Supreme Court will consider three petitions filed by William M. Windsor, a retired Atlanta, Georgia grandfather. The decision should be rendered by the end of the year. Unless The Supreme Court acts, federal judges will be free to void the Constitution.
The Questions Presented to The Supreme Court by Grandfather Windsor are:
1. Will The Supreme Court declare that the Constitution and its amendments may be voided by federal judges?
2. Should federal judges be stopped from committing illegal and corrupt acts to obstruct justice and inflict bias on litigants?
3. Will The Supreme Court be afraid to disclose the corruption in the federal courts?
These questions are presented in three separate Petitions for Writ of Mandamus filed with The United States Supreme Court the first week of November 2010 (appeal numbers to-be-assigned).
Windsor has been involved in legal action in the federal courts in Atlanta since 2006. Windsor was named a defendant in a lawsuit (1:06-CV-0714-ODE) in which Christopher Glynn of Maid of the Mist in Niagara Falls, swore under oath that Windsor did a variety of things including the crimes of theft and bribery. Windsor stated under oath that Christopher Glynn made it all up and lied about absolutely everything that he swore. Windsor then obtained deposition testimony from Glynn and the other managers of the Maid of the Mist boat ride in Niagara Falls, and they admitted, under oath, that charges against Windsor were not true.
Despite this undeniable proof, federal Judge Orinda D. Evans declared that the grandfather of three should not have fought the lawsuit, and she forced him to pay over $400,000 in legal fees. Windsor appealed to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit, but federal judges Dubina, Hull, and Fay rubber-stamped Judge Evans' ruling. Windsor then took his appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court where the justices said the appeal was not worthy of their consideration (cert denied).
Windsor believes that the federal courts and nine federal judges violated the Constitution, the Due Process Clause, and the First, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh, Ninth, and Fourteenth Amendments to the Constitution.
Windsor says: "I have discovered that, at least in Atlanta, Georgia, the federal courts operate like a police state in which the judges are all-powerful, committing criminal acts from their benches and violating the Constitutional rights of parties who have the misfortune of appearing in their courts."
Windsor has now tossed the hot potato right square in the laps of the justices of the Supreme Court. By filing mandamus petitions rather than an appeal, The Supreme Court is forced to deal with Windsor's allegations of corruption in the federal courts.
Grandfather Windsor hopes for the best but fears for the worst: "I hope The Supreme Court is decent, honest, and cares about the Constitution and the citizens of the United States. However, I am sorry to say that at this point, I suspect the corruption goes all the way to the top. My charges have been totally ignored by the United States Attorney's Office, the FBI, and Congress. I have said to The Supreme Court that the issues can all be boiled down to one question: Is The United States Supreme Court prepared to stop the federal judges in Atlanta, Georgia from functioning like common criminals?"
Windsor says: "If The Supreme Court fails to act against these federal judges, the citizens of the United States need to know that there is not a shred of decency, honesty, or Constitutional rights in our federal courts. Corruption has consumed the federal court system, and we now live in a police state. Judges are free to do absolutely anything they want. Our laws are meaningless. Your life savings can be stolen by a federal judge, and they have no risk in violating every law in the books."
The Supreme Court may render its decision before the end of the year. It's one retired grandpa against the United States government.
For more information, see www.LawlessAmerica.com.
SOURCE William M. Windsor
:sigh: I could have already answered his question for him. Here in my State, nearly all the 7000 dentists filed suit against Medicaid, who has been reimbursing them at 11% of their costs. They spent millions in legal fees to get it to federal court, only to have the case thrown out, in effect, the court said it was not a case at all to even bother with. Some of the dentists were forced into bankruptcy. The corruption does indeed go all the way to the top.
:cloud9: More to pray about......(as if we didn't have enough) :winkgrin:
December 15, 2010
Obama quietly erasing borders
Dem administration advancing 'North American Union' agenda
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: December 15, 2010
10:20 pm Eastern
By Jerome R. Corsi
WORLDNETDAILY — Acting quietly, below the radar of U.S. public opinion and without congressional approval, the Obama administration is implementing a key policy objective of the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America, or SPP, to erase the border with Mexico and Canada.
The administration is acting under a State Department-declared policy initiative described in a March 23 fact sheet titled "United States-Mexico Partnership: A New Border Vision."
"Mexico and the United States have a shared interest in creating a 21st century border that promotes the security and prosperity of both countries," the State Department declared. "The U.S. and Mexican governments have launched a range of initiatives that challenge the traditional view of 'hold the line' and are developing a framework for a new vision of 21st century border management."
At the same time, CTV News in Canada has obtained a draft copy of a declaration between the U.S. and Canada entitled "Beyond the Border: A Shared Vision for Perimeter Security and Competitiveness," to be implemented by a newly created Canadian-U.S. "Beyond the Border Working Group."
Get "The Late Great USA" and find out how America is giving away its sovereignty
The two documents strongly suggest the Obama administration is pursuing a stealth bureaucratic methodology to establish a common North American border around the continent, encompassing the U.S., Canada and Mexico, while simultaneously moving to erase the borders between the U.S. and Mexico as well as between the U.S. and Canada.
WND has reported since 2006 that a blueprint published in 2005 by the Council on Foreign Relations entitled "Building a North America Community" called for the establishment of a common security perimeter around North America by 2010 to facilitate the free movement of people, trade and capital between the three nations of North America.
In his 2001 book, "Toward a North American Community," American University professor Robert Pastor, a co-chair of the CFR blue ribbon committee that authored "Building a North American Community," called for the creation of a North American Commission, a North American Parliament, and a North American Court on Trade and Investment.
The language of the documents declaring "A New Border Vision" with Mexico and Canada could easily have been lifted directly from the CFR report or Pastor's book.
The 2005 CFR report "Building a North American Community" called on page xvii of the Foreword for the "establishment by 2010 of a North American economic and security perimeter, the boundaries of which would be defined by a common external tariff and an outer security perimeter."
CTV News reported that the language of the draft agreement specified that "A New Border Vision" for the U.S. and Canada would involve "a perimeter approach to security, working together within, at, and away from the borders of our two countries in a way that supports economic competitiveness, job creation and prosperity, and in a partnership to enhance our security and accelerate the legitimate flow of people and goods between our two countries."
Similarly, the U.S. State Department fact sheet calling for "A New Border Vision" with Mexico specified five areas of "joint border management, co-responsibility for cross-border crime, and shared commitment to the efficient flow of legal commerce and travel," namely: enhancing public safety, securing flows of people and goods, expediting legitimate commerce and travel, engaging border communities, and setting policy.
Under "setting policy," the State Department fact sheet with Mexico called for achieving rapid policy change through "an agile inter-agency process within each country as well as a means by which both governments can easily coordinate at a bi-national level."
This provides additional support for the conclusion that the bureaucratic "working groups" established under SPP in the Bush administration will continue to operate under Obama administration.
CTV News reported that the draft declaration of "A New Border Vision" with Canada similarly also specified a cross-border policy agenda, including:
•An integrated cargo security strategy;
•A joint approach to port and border security and screening;
•Cross-border sharing of information between law enforcement agencies;
•A closer working relationship between the two militaries in the event of emergencies;
•A new level of collaboration on preventing and recovering from counter attacks.
Affirming the continuance of the working group process, the draft declaration with Canada specifies the U.S. and Canada "intend to address threats at the earliest point possible, including outside the perimeter of our two countries."
The origin of the SPP can be traced to a trilateral summit meeting in Waco, Texas, March 23, 2005, between President George W. Bush, then-Mexican President Vicente Fox and then-Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin.
At the end of the Waco summit, the three leaders simply declared that the U.S., Mexico and Canada were now in the Security and Prosperity Partnership, without the signing of any international agreement between the three countries or the ratifying of any trilateral treaty by the U.S. Senate.
The SPP in the administration of President Bush appeared designed to replicate the steps taken in Europe over a 50-year period following the end of World War II to transform an economic agreement under the European Common Market into a full-fledged regional government, operating as the European Union, with its own currency, the euro, functioning as the sole legitimate currency in what has become known as "the eurozone."
The concern was that under the SPP, the North American Free Trade Agreement, or NAFTA, could evolve into a regional government, the North American Union, with a regional currency, the Amero, designed to replace the U.S. dollar, the Mexican peso and the Canadian dollar.
WND has reported analysts have believed the North American integration plan will proceed incrementally, largely below the radar, since the SPP was declared "dead" by one of its chief architects, American University Professor Robert A. Pastor, who for nearly 15 years has been a major proponent of building a "North American Community."
Dr. Martin Gaskell, accused of being 'potentially evangelical'
Astronomer Sues the University of Kentucky, Claiming His Faith Cost Him a Job
By MARK OPPENHEIMER
Published: December 18, 2010
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/19/us/19kentucky.html
:cloud9: And it starts....... :sigh:
Saw this on the tag of someone's email......
"Save the planet: eat a globalist" :laughing7:
Corexit is ecological friendly stuff..... :winkgrin:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/usoilpollutionenvironmentresearch
Bacteria ate Gulf oil spill methane in 4 months
18 mins ago
WASHINGTON (AFP) – The huge quantity of methane released in the Gulf of Mexico last year during the worst oil spill in US history was ingested by bacteria in four months, according to a scientific study published Thursday.
Methane made up 20 percent of the huge plume of crude oil that escaped from a broken pipeline nearly one mile (1,600 meters) below the Gulf surface, after the BP-operated Deepwater Horizon platform exploded on April 20, killing 11 workers.
The leak, the worst oil spill in US history, was finally plugged on July 15, after spewing millions of gallons of crude into the Gulf.
"The methane was completely consumed by early September... it happened very quickly and it was a surprise to us," University of California Santa Barbara geochemistry professor David Valentine told AFP.
Valentine, one of the lead authors of the study in Thursday's edition of the journal Science, said the rapid "digestion" of the methane by bacteria showed the vital role microorganisms likely play in preventing greenhouse gases at the bottom of the ocean from entering the earth's atmosphere and contributing to global warming.
"They do serve an important function, and as we see here under certain conditions these bacteria can be very effective at preventing the methane from reaching the atmosphere," he added.
Valentine said research he published in September-October showed that other species of bacteria also consumed the ethane and propane released by the blast.
Bacteria also consumed some of the crude oil that was spilled in the Gulf, but researchers have yet to determine the quantities, he said, adding that chemical dispersants facilitated its absorption by the microorganisms.
In contrast to crude oil, methane and other gases naturally dissolve in ocean water before they are ingested by bacteria.
Ive read and its been said that oil is not from fossils at all but the earth itself produces oil and the leaks oil into the oceans and the oceans have taken care of the problem since it all started. Its said the earth leaks more oil that the BP spill ever did.
I dont know if its true or not. Ive also read and heard that one volcano eruption spews more gases into the air than all the air conditioners and automobiles have to date. The Lord just has not inclined me pay to much attention to what man has to say about this world since man does not in God, The God who has been the husbandman for His Earth for sometime now, Ill put my trust and faith in the Peace He gives the bretheren.
Quote from: micah7:9 on January 07, 2011, 01:14:12 AM
Ive read and its been said that oil is not from fossils at all but the earth itself produces oil and the leaks oil into the oceans and the oceans have taken care of the problem since it all started. Its said the earth leaks more oil that the BP spill ever did.
I dont know if its true or not. Ive also read and heard that one volcano eruption spews more gases into the air than all the air conditioners and automobiles have to date. The Lord just has not inclined me pay to much attention to what man has to say about this world since man does not in God, The God who has been the husbandman for His Earth for sometime now, Ill put my trust and faith in the Peace He gives the bretheren.
The theory of earth producing oil is not commonly accepted yet; but is concidered a serious topic of study.
It's true that oil has leaked in the ocean. Some parts of the ocean floor ar like tar. But I think you have to take the scale of things in mind.
A bit of oil dripping out of the ocean floor or BP oil spil.
True volcanic eruptions can put massive amounts of (greenhouse) gases in the atmosphere.
Maybe. Maybe you are correct, I dont know. Perhaps religious people attempt to tie all of Earths phenomenoms into religious, end-time happenings and off it goes into another tangent. Maybe you are correct, I dont know. Just maybe....
Quote from: micah7:9 on January 07, 2011, 03:12:02 PMPerhaps religious people attempt to tie all of Earths phenomenoms into religious, end-time happenings and off it goes into another tangent.
I'm not saying this are end-time signs but most things in the Bible
look like ordinary natatural events. Even during the crucifixtion is an earth quake mentioned
This is the way that it has been revealed to me. God created the earth and within what the earth is and in its proper time with its nomencalture are the phenomenoms of natural disasters, these are not caused by man and his growing knowledge of science(perhaps some but very minute.) God made the earth to have floods of the smallest to the megas, He may at times use the nature of the earth to bring forth His purpose (as in the OT) but also He was showing us that this is how the earth functions, dont get to surprised. Saying that the devastation of Hatie was from satan for their unbelief as Pat Roberston said, is religious immaturity and silly.
Its the same with the human body, disease and sickness have been built into the makeup of mankind, (yes we have read in the NT the examples of Jesus's healings for His purpose) but mainly mankind is what it is and within itself are these terrrible and ugly at times heartbreaking illnesses that happen to even the most faithful of persons. Why? That is the mystery, I certainly dont know. But to try and blame the adversary again is not mature.
God does things, God allows things. And knowing that God IS and that He KNOWS the best for HIS Creation,
Psa 36:7 How precious is Thy kindness, O God, And the sons of men In the shadow of Thy wings do trust.
Quote from: WhiteWings on January 07, 2011, 09:03:10 AM
Quote from: micah7:9 on January 07, 2011, 01:14:12 AM
Ive read and its been said that oil is not from fossils at all but the earth itself produces oil and the leaks oil into the oceans and the oceans have taken care of the problem since it all started. Its said the earth leaks more oil that the BP spill ever did.
I dont know if its true or not. Ive also read and heard that one volcano eruption spews more gases into the air than all the air conditioners and automobiles have to date. The Lord just has not inclined me pay to much attention to what man has to say about this world since man does not in God, The God who has been the husbandman for His Earth for sometime now, Ill put my trust and faith in the Peace He gives the bretheren.
The theory of earth producing oil is not commonly accepted yet; but is concidered a serious topic of study.
It's true that oil has leaked in the ocean. Some parts of the ocean floor ar like tar. But I think you have to take the scale of things in mind.
A bit of oil dripping out of the ocean floor or BP oil spil.
True volcanic eruptions can put massive amounts of (greenhouse) gases in the atmosphere.
I think all the major wars of the last century were fought over oil.
But, oddly enough, none of them were necessary because oil itself, even at that time, was not necessary. There were viable options, and at the turn of the 20th century, the world stood on the edge of a golden era.
All of that was quashed, as companies and countries fought over power and control of an illusion in the form of oil. I think the companies won that battle, and although we peons still tend to think in terms of nations, it is powerful individuals and companies who have shaped and continue to shape the history of the last 100 years, starting with the Bolsheviks in Russia.
Companies have proven their total heartlessness and disdain for humanity, and will continue to prove it, until mankind stops taking the deal--
all this can be yours if only you will bow down and worship me.
:cloud9: Exactly.....
:sigh: A friend sent me this.....can you spell, "EXTORTION?"
Here's an astonishing read. Important and verifiable information :
About 6 months ago, the writer was watching a news program on oil and one of the Forbes Bros. was the guest. The host said to Forbes, "I am going to ask you a direct question and I would like a direct answer; how much oil does the U.S. Have in the ground?" Forbes did not miss a beat, he said, "more than all the Middle East put together." Please read below.
The U. S. Geological Service issued a report in April 2008 that only scientists and oil men knew was coming, but man was it big. It was a revised report (hadn't been updated since 1995) on how much oil was in this area of the western 2/3 of North Dakota, western South Dakota, and extreme eastern Montana ..... Check THIS out:
The Bakken is the largest domestic oil discovery since Alaska 's Prudhoe Bay, and has the potential
to eliminate all American dependence on foreign oil. The Energy Information Administration (EIA) estimates it at 503 billion barrels. Even if just 10% of the oil is recoverable... At $107 a barrel, we're looking at a resource base worth more than $53 trillion.
"When I first briefed legislators on this, you could practically see their jaws hit the floor. They had no idea.." says Terry Johnson, the Montana Legislature's financial analyst.
"This sizable find is now the highest-producing onshore oil field found in the past 56 years," reports The Pittsburgh Post Gazette. It's a formation known as the Williston Basin, but is more commonly referred to as the 'Bakken.' It stretches from Northern Montana, through North Dakota and into Canada . For years, U. S. Oil exploration has been considered a dead end. Even the 'Big Oil' companies gave up searching for major oil wells decades ago. However, a recent technological breakthrough has opened up the Bakken's massive reserves..... And
we now have access of up to 500 billion barrels.
And because this is light, sweet oil, those billions of barrels will cost Americans just $16 PER BARREL!
That's enough crude to fully fuel the American economy for 2041 years straight. And if THAT didn't throw you on the floor, then this next one should - because it's from 2006!
U.. S. Oil Discovery- Largest Reserve in the World
Stansberry Report Online - 4/20/2006
Hidden 1,000 feet beneath the surface of the Rocky Mountains lies the largest untapped oil reserve in the world. It is more than 2 TRILLION barrels. On August 8, 2005 President Bush mandated its extraction. In three and a half years of high oil prices none has been extracted. With this motherload of oil why are we still fighting over off-shore drilling?
They reported this stunning news: We have more oil inside our borders, than all the other proven reserves on earth.. Here are the official estimates:
- 8-times as much oil as Saudi Arabia
- 18-times as much oil as Iraq
- 21-times as much oil as Kuwait
- 22-times as much oil as Iran
- 500-times as much oil as Yemen
- and it's all right here in the Western United States .
HOW can this BE? HOW can we NOT BE extracting this? Because the environmentalists and others have blocked all efforts to help America become independent of foreign oil! Again, we are letting a small group of people dictate our lives and our economy.....WHY?
James Bartis, lead researcher with the study says we've got more oil in this very compact area than the entire Middle East -more than 2 TRILLION barrels untapped. That's more than all the proven oil reserves of crude oil in the world today, reports The Denver Post.
Don't think 'OPEC' will drop its price - even with this find? Think again! It's all about the competitive marketplace, - it has to. Think OPEC just might be funding the environmentalists?
Got your attention yet? Now, while you're thinking about it, do this:
Pass this along. If you don't take a little time to do this, then you should stifle yourself the next time you complain about gas prices - by doing NOTHING, you forfeit your right to complain.
Now I just wonder what would happen in this country if every one of you sent this to every one in your address book.
By the way...this is all true. Check it out at the link below!!!
GOOGLE it, or follow this link. It will blow your mind.
Http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1911
Im afraid its true, so that it will never be affirmed, someone or "they"(who ever they are) will not allow the US to be free of the world commerce, be it oil or steel, or whatever. I personally believe it to be true, but I speak only from a worldly and political veiw.
:cloud9: You're probably right......only the Lord can break the strongholds.......
Got sent this today.....quite an eye opener as well......the things men do in darkness, the Lord will have brought into the light.....
"What the "news" is not telling you is -
"Wheeler was the assistant to the Secretary of the Air Force in the George W. Bush Administration. It was the Secretary of the Air Force who discovered that Richard Cheney had set up an alternative chain of command to the nuclear weapons wing of the AF. In the process, six minutemen missiles armed with nuclear warheads were secretly transported from Minot AFB to Barksdale AFB. The later is the chief staging base for the Middle East war. The alarm system for the weapons was deactivated for the transport, something that not even the base commander could authorize. The orders had to have come from above. Many point to Cheney. Before the warheads could be flown via B-52 to the Iraq/Iran theater, the Secretary of the Air Force ordered the stand-down of all B-52 flights. When he discovered the alternative chain of command to Cheney, he fired all military personnel who were involved. Cheney was said to have been livid. The Secretary ordered an investigation of what the AF press release called an oversight, and 70 enlisted men and 5 officers were removed from the Minot nuclear system.
"At the same time, people involved began to die mysteriously. Wheeler is only the latest casualty."
Quote from: Cardinal on January 11, 2011, 07:28:03 PM
:cloud9: You're probably right......only the Lord can break the strongholds.......
And education....
As long as the voters believe it really matters if they vote for an elephant or donkey there is no hope.....
:cloud9: Well, that's part of the "sheeple" mentality. As long as they can keep their eyes on the false front, they don't see what's really going on......I think it makes them sleep better at night. :dontknow:
The amount of things that God has prevented behind the scenes,which we are completely ignorant of, it's like while we are going to sleep tucked in bed, God is working hard all over the world doing mighty things, thank God, thank Jesus.
Shades of Kennedy, the Grassy knowl and the one bullet theory. I try very hard to stay out of the deep pool of the mysterious and rubic mind of the "one world government," even though I know in the worldit is all going on. I quit indulging in the 666 of hyberbole bible teaching sometime ago; as I have quit on the conspiracy theories I know are going on...but once The Lord told me I AM...I stopped following the Kennedy assasination, the Bildibergers, Trilateralists, The Spot Light all of the stuff the carnal mind feeds on here in this realm. I am by the grace of God, trying to keep my understanding and learning in the realm of the Spirit and not dwelling on the things that excecise my carnal mind on the earthy happenings, no matter how important it makes me feel. I fail a good part of the time, but know that is where my rock is.
Quote from: MicahShades of Kennedy, the Grassy knowl and the one bullet theory
Funny how the human mind works. I saw that phrase, 'the grassy knoll,' and thought to myself, the mind knows the truth and will speak it no matter what. Scientists have found that one side of the brain embellishes fictional stories but the other side always wants to tell the literal truth and hides the truth inside the stories. Every criminal denial contains the literal truth of what happened. We can't hide from the truth, only do our best to suppress it. And, yes, it is a scientifically proven fact that JFK was caught in a crossfire.
THE MAN WHO NAMED THE GRASSY KNOLLhttp://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/gk_name.htm
I have made an interesting discovery. The conspiracy theories, the new world order is lead by mystery babylon, she is the driving force behind it all, her sorcery , manipilation etc, trying to rule the world through her craft. But God has other plans, the beast rises up with his 10 kings and destroys the whore, therefore the luminati, bilderburgers, etc all these org the whore controls will not be in power.
Many people say luminati control the world, but they are controlled by the whore, and the whore gets destroyed by the beast.
I could be wrong, but I think the new world order is destined to fail (mans attempt), the beast takes over (Gods punishing servant)
:2c:
Quote from: TTthey are controlled by the whore, and the whore gets destroyed by the beast.
Who is the beast? Who is the whore?
QuoteI could be wrong, but I think the new world order is destined to fail...
44And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. --Daniel 2
Quote from: micah7:9 on January 11, 2011, 11:57:57 PM
Shades of Kennedy, the Grassy knowl and the one bullet theory. I try very hard to stay out of the deep pool of the mysterious and rubic mind of the "one world government," even though I know in the worldit is all going on. I quit indulging in the 666 of hyberbole bible teaching sometime ago; as I have quit on the conspiracy theories I know are going on...but once The Lord told me I AM...I stopped following the Kennedy assasination, the Bildibergers, Trilateralists, The Spot Light all of the stuff the carnal mind feeds on here in this realm. I am by the grace of God, trying to keep my understanding and learning in the realm of the Spirit and not dwelling on the things that excecise my carnal mind on the earthy happenings, no matter how important it makes me feel. I fail a good part of the time, but know that is where my rock is.
Oh! How I dislike any "can of worms" but alas it is what we are...a human being, that is our nature, curiousity is our embryolcal cord to our Adam nature.
But our desire for truth is our umbilical cord to Jesus. :happygrin:
Quote from: Molly on January 12, 2011, 01:26:23 AM
But our desire for truth is our umbilical cord to Jesus. :happygrin:
Sorry I spelled umbilical cord. Go for it, Im sure you will glue it all together cause you can. :bigGrin:
Here we go. :mblush: And, so it begins.. :sigh:
Earth must prepare for close encounter with aliens, say scientists
UN should co-ordinate plans for dealing with extraterrestrials – and we can't guarantee that aliens will be friendly
Evolution on alien worlds is likely to be Darwinian, which may mean extraterrestrials share our tendencies for violence and exploitation
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/jan/10/earth-close-encounter-aliens-extraterrestrials
:cloud9: They're just throwing the door open now, instead of leaving it at a crack, aren't they? :sigh:
The crack is widening and it is the gate of Abbadon.
So "the powers that be" want to stage an alien invasion?
Illegal aliens from Mexico :laughing7:
Trust someone to speak of aliens today, because today I found a piece of evidence in scripture that may suggest they might be among us in the days of Gods wrath. Us as in the human race, I don't think followers of christ will be on the earth, some will be hidden in places on earth, and others in heaven, possibly even some will live and escape judgment on the moon, which is scientifically possible, I have also found a scripture which supports this idea too.
:2c:
Quote from: thinktank on January 12, 2011, 11:54:12 PM
I don't think followers of christ will be on the earth, some will be hidden in places on earth, and others in heaven, possibly even some will live and escape judgment on the moon, which is scientifically possible, I have also found a scripture which supports this idea too.
:2c:
That's interesting. After abandoning my belief in the rapture I've always assumed saints would go through the tribulation.
Btw I'm not sure if believe in the "Clock Stoppage at the 69th Daniel's Week theory" either. I do believe in a tribulation, but I'm not so sure if it's going to be a seven year period as the tradition has taught (many of) us.
"Aliens" can possibly be demons/fallen angels masquerading as aliens. I've read some accounts of people (allegedly) being visited by them, and often their message was "there is no God, we created your religions". Who would like us to believe in things like that?
I think a pret trib is possible but a mid trib that people speak of is the likliest, but it is also misleading, because it says mid trib, in my opinion a mid trib is actually pretrib in terms of time and the pre trib doesn't exist, I side with you that the tribulation lasts 3 and a half years and not 7 years.
Jesus said or Paul :mblush:when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, in the temple of God, look up your redemption draweth nigh.
That to me means that, there won't be any beheading until he enters the temple, making an image in the temple and I think by the time he does this there is only 3 and a half years left which starts the great tribulation.
But I think the 4 and half years before it, is a time of war, when the little horn of Daniel rises up to fight the transgressors unite the 10 horns of the beast and becomes the head of the beast, but he won't have world wide power until he comes out of the bottomless pit.
That's interesting. After abandoning my belief in the rapture I've always assumed saints would go through the tribulation.
Aleax
According to scripture, if His people are not ready he will discipline them with fire Revelations letter to the churches. Many christians will be beheaded, they won't have enough oil/faith to escape, but God will be with them.
Quote from: Aleax on January 13, 2011, 12:17:47 AM
Quote from: thinktank on January 12, 2011, 11:54:12 PM
I don't think followers of christ will be on the earth, some will be hidden in places on earth, and others in heaven, possibly even some will live and escape judgment on the moon, which is scientifically possible, I have also found a scripture which supports this idea too.
:2c:
That's interesting. After abandoning my belief in the rapture I've always assumed saints would go through the tribulation.
Btw I'm not sure if believe in the "Clock Stoppage at the 69th Daniel's Week theory" either. I do believe in a tribulation, but I'm not so sure if it's going to be a seven year period as the tradition has taught (many of) us.
After abandoning your belief in the rapture . . .why would you continue to hold on to tribulation? Going through tribulation is part of the rapture theory. Where is the love of God manifesting in this "doom and gloom" synopsis? The same mindset that embraces the existence of eternal hell also embraces the coming of a great tribulation to the earth in the "last days". Which, by the way, they never explain what the last days are the last days "of". I think the implication is the last days of the existence of man . . .even though out the other side of their mouths they declare men will live forever with Jesus . . .
I do see there are last days . . .and I also agree that we could very well be in the last day of those days . . .but for me, it's the last day of the creative and dimensional 7 days originating in Genesis. We've passed through the first 6 days (a day is a thousand year principle) and we're just now entereing into the 7th . . .but I think their rendition of the last day has a much different ending that what I see the Sabbath Day . .which is the last day of the seven . . .is bringing to us. I see the Sabbath bringing complete restoration . . .they see the last day bringing complete destruction.
I think its good to be optimistic, possbily there is a chance that the world will repent and therefore the great tribulation won't have to happen.
Quote from: thinktank on January 13, 2011, 07:44:49 PM
I think its good to be optimistic, possbily there is a chance that the world will repent and therefore the great tribulation won't have to happen.
That'n not possible TT.
IF tribulation is in the Bible then it will happen. If not then the Bible is flawed
or the interpretation is flawed, in which case, people are being alarmed about a lot of nothing. Isn't the theory of the Great Tribulation as the church supports it to be, in contrast with the nature of God . .just as eternal torment is as well? We're still saying that even though God isn't going to eternally torment all men as many suppose, but he still is going to destroy all men in the end? It seems to be a contradictory of beliefs here . . .how can one cast aside eternal torment and still embrace Great Tribulation?
I don't get it at all.
Because it is a consistent pattern.
Blood sacrifice was part of the old testament, and blood sacrifice is one of the major doctines of the new testament.
Et was not part of the old testament, but destruction is part of the old testament.
So ET is against Gods character but killing destroying people is not against his character.
Besides he not going to kill all men, the scripture says whats left of the nations will come to worship in Jerusalem every year, and their swords shall be turned into ploughs.
God is above our ways, and when we think of God we sometimes put him in a box, because maybe we have spent time in his presence and we think, "how can such peace, destroy". But God is also a God of justice and honour and not just of peace, if He wants to destroy His enemies, who are we to stand in his way. Don't you know that Gods anger is at boiling point? (Not a revealtion, I mean it is said in revelation that the winepress will overflow with His anger) He has kept his anger at bay for about 2000 years, the vats are filling with the winepress of his anger.
I don't know if the great tribulation can be stopped, but I do know that repentance will play a big part, in terms of how much suffering the world goes through and which nations will suffer the most, for God protects His people.
This may come as a shock TT. I agree with your post :thumbsup:
It's often said ETs try to sugarcoat their doctrine.
But some URs try to sugar coat the Bible.
You are very right TT. there was a flood, Sodom was destroyed, God was a general in many wars, etc.
With a reason... fine. No problem with that view.
But right now He can have equally good reasons.
Nathan, I believe in a tribulation because the Bible mentions it, and
a) I cannot embrace the doctrine of Preterism. I'd have to spiritualize and allegorize too much of Revelation in order to believe in that.
b) There often seems to be trouble at the end of the eons. The Angelic eon ended with a disruption. The Eon of Conscience ended with God flooding the world. The Millennial eon will end with the greatest apostasy ever, and the world being destroyed by fire. Keeping this in mind, I don't believe the end of the current eon will be a walk in a park, either. I think there's a good chance the global economy will fail. Today's news had some expert predicting the Euro will collapse in 2013. Many EU countries are in deep trouble, U.S. has been in trouble for some time now. China seems strong though. Yeah, honestly I find it kind of depressing the future seems to be set in stone. But the good news is, I believe the eventual reconciliation of all things at the Consummation of the Eons has been set in stone, too.
I was also thinking maybe it's both things. Cataclysmic (tribulatory) events, then the ushering in of the next age. However, I'm certainly no eschatalogical expert...I barely was able to spell the word.
You you can uze my spellzjecker James :icon_jokercolor:
Some believe the events at Sodom were triggers by a (God sent) comet. The rain of fire was the tail/debris of that comet.
(it even impacted on a peak of the Alps.
The other part of the story is that that comet also was 'here' during other main Biblical events. It was here at regular intervals. The next calculated arrival is one of a full impart. Soon..... (wormwood)
True? Don't confuse me with Biblical stuff :laughing7: but doesn't the Bible say there will be no more judgement with water (flood) but the next judgement will be with fire?
Yeah yeah. I know spiritual.
The people at Noach's time drowned in spiritual water. Others were roasted with spiritual fire and brimstone. And many were killed with spiritual sword and bow and arrows. Perfect Jesus only was nailed spiritually to the cross.
Sidenote: I'don't believe there will be litteral beats with multible heads, and horse with a scorpions tail and similar.
No, no, you're missing my point here. I never said there isn't destruction. What I'm saying is . . .I just don't see God destroying the very beings he created in his own image. That would be him destroying the likeness of himself. I totally believe there is a destruction . . .but for me, it's not outwardly . . .it's inwardly. The carnal man in me is what's being destroyed, not men, but the man in men.
And just for the record . . .it "appears" that one of these posts were implying I may be preterist . . . I will agree that I do see the majority of Revelation has physically already happened, I just can't go all the way and say everyrthing in God's original plan has already been completely accomplished. I "do" think we are to pusue the things which are above (spiritual) rather than set our minds on the things below (natural).
And one of the places I "would think" would have been a prime place to declare it if it were to be of primary concern, would be when Jesus went into the temple and declared his intentions
Luke 4:18
The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
No sign of a great tribualtion . . .
In fact, he even DID say IN THIS WORLD you will have trials and tribulation . . .BUT . . .be of good cheer . . .I'VE OVERCOME THE WORLD.
And yet the church clings on to the tribulation rather than proclaim the overcoming power in a world where tribulation dwells.
:cloud9: A tribulum = threshing instrument for wheat = removing the chaff off the GOOD SEED = Christ IN US, the hope of glory being manifested (means to unveil or uncover) AS the glory. We are our own "world", a microcosm of a macrocosm. My :2c: Blessings.....
So when others coin the phrase . ."you're in your own little world, aren't you . . ." it's actually a spiritual truth after all!! Except it's not little . . .it's as crazy huge as our natural galaxies around our earth. The stars that make our inner worlds shine are the illuminatons from those around us who's rays of truth pass in and through us. I'm likin' this a lot!!!
:cloud9: :thumbsup: Yes......stars are those lights that we look up to in the night-time of our souls. The fathers and mothers (coverings) that have to be removed (veil of the "heavens" rent) at maturity, so that HE can be our only covering = the manifestation described in a nutshell. :winkgrin: Blessings....
Quote from: Cardinal on January 14, 2011, 12:36:17 AM
:cloud9: A tribulum = threshing instrument for wheat = removing the chaff off the GOOD SEED = Christ IN US, the hope of glory being manifested (means to unveil or uncover) AS the glory. We are our own "world", a microcosm of a macrocosm. My :2c: Blessings.....
Tribulum... that's a nice wordplay :laughing7:
θλίψις
thlipsis
Thayer Definition:
1) a pressing, pressing together, pressure
2) metaphorically oppression, affliction, tribulation, distress, straits
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: from G2346
Citing in TDNT: 3:139, 334
θλίβω
thlibō
Thayer Definition:
1) to press (as grapes), press hard upon
2) a compressed way
2a) narrow straitened, contracted
3) metaphorically to trouble, afflict, distress
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: akin to the base of G5147
Citing in TDNT: 3:139, 334
τρίβος
tribos
Thayer Definition:
1) a worn way, a path
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: from tribo (to "rub", akin to teiro, truo, and the base of G5131, G5134)
τράγος
tragos
Thayer Definition:
1) male goat
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: from the base of G5176
τραῦμα
trauma
Thayer Definition:
1) a wound
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: from the base of titrosko (to wound; akin to the base of G2352, G5147, G5149, etc.)
I'll stop here with the Greek because the word defenitions keep linking and branching out to lots of other meanings.
Hebrew is simpler. Just one meaning:
צר / צר
tsar
BDB Definition:
1) narrow, tight
2) straits, distress
3) adversary, foe, enemy, oppressor
4)
hard pebble, flintPart of Speech: adjective
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: from H6887
Same Word by TWOT Number: 1973a, 1973b, 1974a, 1975a
God has tied the spiritual and the physical together ever since He breathed into Adam and he became a living soul. What happens to our bodies, even as with Jesus' crucifixion, is crucial. Yield your bodies as a living sacrifice, and do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. It is all one. The destruction of the outer man occurs as we yield our bodies- or else, because he that saves his own life shall lose it, the destruction is forced upon us as discipline from the Lord, who is merciful to hinder us when we cling to the world and carnal nature. Where time and eternity meet God is dealing with man, and the destruction is often physical and spiritual at once.
I see tribulation in general as the Father's way of wresting our clutching fingers off of the life lived for the flesh. Just as Pharoah commanded that the Israelites makes bricks with no straw, causing destruction to many. Pharoah meant it for evil but God meant it to get the Israelites in a mind to leave. Before the last great Exodus of this age, God will raise up the adversaries in order to be glorified in them. For those whose vessels are full of oil, it matters not if tribulation come today or tomoro, they will be hidden in the secret place of God, even if their bodies are destroyed in martyrdom. The secret place is the grace to face whatever God has ordained for each one of us....and it may be different for each one of us. For those who are foolish and live in the flesh.... they will not be hidden, and destruction will come upon them in the night. "Awake O sleepers, and Arise from the dead, and the light of Christ will shine upon you!" We ought to pay close attention to the prophetic word, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in our hearts. We are children of the day- the night cannot take us as a thief- now or ever. Let us so speak and so act as children of the day and watch, for the night approaches, when no man can work. The night will come to everyone, as will the Day. So, Today, if you hear His voice..... therefore while there remains a promise of entering, let us enter His rest, having ceased from our own works, and our own words too ;o)
"We are children of the day- the night cannot take us as a thief- now or ever. Let us so speak and so act as children of the day and watch, for the night approaches, when no man can work. The night will come to everyone, as will the Day. So, Today, if you hear His voice..... therefore while there remains a promise of entering, let us enter His rest, having ceased from our own works, and our own words too ;o)" Eaglesway
:HeartThrob: :bigGrin:
:cloud9: @ WW....keep digging, it's in there......
I can assure you it's not.
If I dig this abyss any deeper I end up in Aussie land :winkgrin:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3143/3018483820_34134d8d23.jpg)
Afflictions, Refining Influence Of: The Tribulum
In the pictures of the ancient Roman method of threshing grain, one man is always seen stirring up the sheaves while another rides over them in a crude cart equipped with rollers instead of wheels. Sharp stones and rough bits of iron were attached to these cylinders to help separate the husks from the grain. This simple cart was called a tribulum -- from which we get our word "tribulation." When great affliction comes to us, we often think of ourselves as being torn to pieces under the cruel pressures of adverse circumstances. Yet as no thresher ever yoked up his tribulum for the mere purpose of tearing up his sheaves but to disclose the precious grain, so our loving Savior never puts us under the pressure of sorrow and disappointment needlessly.
http://client.visuallink.com/~ggm/ggs/gg-1999-02/gg-99-02.html
The "Tribulum" Tool
I know thy... tribulation... but...
be thou faithful... and I will give
thee a crown of life.
(Revelation 2:9,10)
Thousands of years ago, farmers used a tool called a "tribulum" to separate the chaff from their wheat. Today our word "tribulation" is derived from the name of that tool.
Just as the ancient farmers used a tribulum to separate the chaff from their wheat, God uses tribulations to separate the chaff from our lives.
Therefore, "think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is come to try you" (1 Peter 4:12). "Knowing... that the trying of your faith worketh patience... that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing" (James 1:3,4).
http://www.endtimeschristianity.com/cgi-bin/webbbs_files/webbbs_config.pl?noframes;read=170
EXCERPT ----------------- FROM >
THE PASSOVER (BARLEY) HARVEST / THE RAPTURE HARVEST (PERRY STONE)
Approximately 40 minutes into the second sermon preached by Perry Stone
on February 12, 2006 at Rod Parsley's church, he told how the 3 major Jewish
Feasts had to do with the Lord's harvest of the earth.
...Barley harvest - Passover
...Wheat harvest - Pentecost
...Fruit / grape harvest - Tabernacles
In describing this, he said:
..."Here's what you MUST understand, they are all harvested differently!
...Barley has a SOFT shell. You cannot step on barley or you'll 'CRUSH'
...it. They take a 'fan' (it looks like a pitch fork) and they gather the barley
...together and they throw it up in the air the 'WIND' separates the outer
...shell from the meat which is the barley itself and they they collect the
...barley and bring it in. In the Book of Ruth, it was barley harvest."
This is the way he described these "SEPARATIONS" which are done
during these 3 "harvests" / Feasts:
..."When you go to separate this (barley), you do it by 'WIND'. When you
...go to separate this (wheat), there was a board and it's a board that you
...stand on and you take an animal and you stand on that board and you
...hook it to the animal and you go over top of the wheat (because wheat
...is very hard). And that board separates that grain and gets the wheat
...out is called, in Latin, a 'tribulum' from which we get the word, 'tribulation'.
...There is NO 'tribulum' used at Passover with the barley. A 'tribulum' is
...used at this feast (Pentecost) to separate the chaff from the wheat.
...And then, the grapes are UTTERLY, TOTALLY CRUSHED!!!"
..."The barley harvest is a picture of the saints whose hearts are 'TENDER'
...who do NOT have to be separated as wheat and chaff. Then, later on in
...the Tribulation, there is a separation of wheat and tare. There's the 144,000
...Jews that will be caught up to the throne of God. And during the Tribulum or ...the Trubulation there will be a CRUSHING on the earth that will separate the ...wheat from the chaff. Then the grape harvest comes at the END."
Perry Stone went on to say:
..."Revelation 4:1 is the RAPTURE of the church. It's the BARLEY
...HARVEST because the BARLEY doesn't have to go through
...'TRIBULUM'...the barley doesn't have to go through TRIBULATION!
...The WIND is the HOLY GHOST and all we have to do is let the
...HOLY GHOST blow over us and blow the junk out of us and blow
...the carnality out of us!
...The OVERCOMERS are represented by barley! But you get in
...the middle of the Tribulation and guess what you've got? You've
...got CHAFF on the wheat and so you've got to take this and you've
...got a tribulum and you've got to CRUSH it! You've got to CRUSH
...it to find out WHO is standing for God and who IS NOT!
...In Revelation 4:1, the 'CHURCH' is caught up to God but in the
...middle of the Tribulation, the 144,000 are CAUGHT UP to God.
...And at the END of the Tribulation (Revelation 14) it talks about
...the GRAPES OF WRATH!!! Take your sickle and go to the
...vineyard that's NOW RIPE and cut the grapes and throw the
...grapes into the winepress of MY WRATH!!! That is the LAST
...PART of the Tribulation period where the CRUSHING takes
...place and the winepress comes out to the city of Jerusalem
...and blood is to the horses bridle.
...You see, when you understand the law of harvest, it clears up
...this WHOLE thing. Is the Church going UP before the Tribulation...
...in the middle...at the end? God has NOT appointed us to wrath
...but to obtain salvation through His Son. That's what He said.
...He said, 'Pray that you be accounted worthy to escape these
...things and stand before the Son of Man.' He said, 'Because
...you've kept the Word of My patience, I'll keep you from the hour
...of testing which is coming for ALL THE EARTH.' He's NOT
...appointed us to the grape wrath!!!"
To me, it would be IMPOSSIBLE to draw a clearer picture of where we are today!!! Perry Stone didn't mention about the Pleiades being SWEPT THROUGH by the moon on a "4/1"!!! But, ironically, he DID mention
Revelation "4:1" SEVERAL times as the "BARLEY HARVEST"!!!
GOD BLESS!!!
Calvin
There is more but I think the above is enough.
I think it would be nice to dig a bit deeper into this using the verses in this post.
Maybe as a seperate thread?
I think its called great tribulation because, it is speeding up normal tribulation. Most christians go through tribulation, but the great tribulation is God wanting to do a quick work and so it is intense tribulation for those who are being tried by fire.
Millions of christians will have to go to prison and suffer for christ and others matyred, but for those who are worthy/ready to escape God will spare them from his chastening.
Perry stone is someone who is on fire for God, he's got a ton of revelation, I think God is using him a lot.
QuoteI think its called great tribulation because, it is speeding up normal tribulation.
It's harvest time. The last harvest of the year is the biggest. The first harvest (first fruit) is small.
So great likely just means "many people are harvested"
μέγας
megas
Thayer Definition:
1) great
1a) of the external form or sensible appearance of things (or of persons)
1a1) in particular, of space and its dimensions, as respects
1a1a) mass and weight: great
1a1b) compass and extent: large, spacious
1a1c) measure and height: long
1a1d) stature and age: great, old
1b) of number and quantity: numerous, large, abundant
1c) of age: the elder
1d) used of intensity and its degrees: with great effort, of the affections and emotions of the mind, of natural events powerfully affecting the senses: violent, mighty, strong
2) predicated of rank, as belonging to
2a) persons, eminent for ability, virtue, authority, power
2b) things esteemed highly for their importance: of great moment, of great weight, importance
2c) a thing to be highly esteemed for its excellence: excellent
3) splendid, prepared on a grand scale, stately
4) great things
4a) of God's preeminent blessings
4b) of things which overstep the province of a created being, proud (presumptuous) things, full of arrogance, derogatory to the majesty of God
Part of Speech: adjective
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: [including the prolonged forms, feminine megale, plural megaloi, etc., compare also G3176, G3187]
Citing in TDNT: 4:529, 573
QuoteMillions of christians will have to go to prison
Or.... many are let
out of prision.
What we call wheat, or the useful part of wheat is packed into a shell/bran. http://www.namamillers.org/images/CrossSectionViewofWheat.gif
The tribulation device cracks open that shell/bran which is a prision for the stuff inside.....
The whole harvesting process is seperating wheat from chaff. Both are the part of the same plant.
What if: wheat=spirit & Chaff=body
Just a thought.....
:cloud9: Obviously can't vouch for the veracity of this, but someone sent me this......
Owning the Weather in 2025: Still think they can't alter the weather?
http://ppjg.wordpress.com/2011/01/13/400/
January 13, 2011 by ppjg
Marti Oakley (C) 2011 All Rights Reserved
Updated from original article in 2008......
_"It could have offensive and defensive applications and even be used for deterrence purposes. The ability to generate precipitation, fog and storms on earth or to modify space weather... and the production of artificial weather all are a part of an integrated set of [military]technologies."_
_________________________________
Even if you don't read this article, which is surely just my opinion, at least take the time to read this report prepared for the Air Force in 1996 and ask yourself if you can honestly conclude that the bizarre weather that has struck in all parts of the U.S in the last four to five years might not really be the result of intentional weather disruption and creation.
The experimentation with the HAARP program emanating from Alaska has gone on unabated and largely ignored by the MSM for at least 15 years. Ice sheets melting at an alarmingly fast rate in the Arctic seem not to be newsworthy, as are the deaths of indigenous animals and marine life in that area. Just call it global warming and let the war of words and theories begin. But! Whatever you do, never, ever mention HAARP.
Centralized in Gokona, Alaska, HAARP became functional in 1992 using high powered transmission antenna's that blast enormous waves of electrical energy into our outer atmosphere called the ionosphere. These blasts will and do cause changes in the temperature of the ionosphere, at times heating it to extreme temperatures which directly affects changes in temperatures on earth. If reflected back to earth, these same energy bursts can disrupt the rhythm of internal organs not only of animals but also of humans.
Excerpted from the original document:
Weather As A Force Multiplier: Owning the Weather in 2025
"It could have offensive and defensive applications and even be used for deterrence purposes. The ability to generate precipitation, fog and storms on earth or to modify space weather... and the production of artificial weather all are a part of an integrated set of [military] technologies." (end excerpt)
Our DoD in collusion with military sponsored scientists have acquired the ability to alter weather patterns, at will. The Active Auroral Research Program (HAARP) is connected to the "Star Wars" Strategic Defense Initiative. Raytheon Corporation owns the HAARP patents along with the US Air Force and British Aerospace Systems (BAES) and as of 2004 Raytheon has received the contracts to construct more advanced antenna's capable of producing even more devastation around the globe not only causing great segments of populations to die from famine, but also from thirst, flood, tsunami's, tornado's, hurricanes and even earthquakes.
Mentioned in the report is the use of nano-technology, a virtually new and experimental technology in 1996. Today in 2008, nano-technology is common knowledge.
Excerpted:
"Nanotechnology also offers possibilities for creating simulated weather. A cloud, or several clouds, of microscopic computer particles, all communicating with each other and with a larger control system could provide tremendous capability. Interconnected, atmospherically buoyant, and having navigation capability in three dimensions, such clouds could be designed to have a wide-range of properties. They might exclusively block optical sensors or could adjust to become impermeable to other surveillance methods. They could also provide an atmospheric electrical potential difference, which otherwise might not exist, to achieve precisely aimed and timed lightning strikes. Even if power levels achieved were insufficient to be an effective strike weapon, the potential for psychological operations in many situations could be fantastic. (end excerpt)
Artificial Weather
"While most weather-modification efforts rely on the existence of certain preexisting conditions, it may be possible to produce some weather effects artificially, regardless of preexisting conditions. For instance, virtual weather could be created by influencing the weather information received by an end user. Their perception of parameter values or images from global or local meteorological information systems would differ from reality. This difference in perception would lead the end user to make degraded operational decisions.
One major advantage of using simulated weather to achieve a desired effect is that unlike other approaches, it makes what are otherwise the results of deliberate actions appear to be the consequences of natural weather phenomena. In addition, it is potentially relatively inexpensive to do. According to J. Storrs Hall, a scientist at Rutgers University conducting research on nanotechnology, production costs of these nanoparticles could be about the same price per pound as potatoes.52 This of course discounts research and development costs, which will be primarily borne by the private sector and be considered a sunk cost by 2025 and probably earlier. " (end excerpt)
When I consider the bizarre and cataclysmic weather events that have happened in just the last three years all around the globe, I can't really come to the conclusion that "global warming" caused by human activity as told to us, is the cause. The conclusion I am coming to is that what is being warmed is the ionosphere, and that is being done intentionally by humans wearing military uniforms and those in our government who seek world domination and want to begin that domination right here at home. What better way to make the rest of the world beg for mercy and submit voluntarily, than to destroy the population of the once greatest and most prosperous society and nation on earth? If we fall, it will have a domino affect.
If this report does nothing else, it should wake you up to the reality that the government of the United States is the greatest enemy of the people. Gone is the time when we could afford ourselves the romantic notion that our government existed only to benefit and to defend us; that this nation was comprised of honorable individuals in our government who loved our country as much as we, the common citizens, do. Our government is comprised of narcissistic monsters who believe only a few are qualified to occupy space on this planet and that those who are allowed to exist outside of this closed club of megalomaniacs should exist only in a state of controlled servitude.
The closer I come to this conclusion I have to ask: When the majority of us are gone, dead from your experiments, your bio-weapons, electromagnetic weapons, your lab created infections and disease, your contamination and destruction of food and water, your wars of greed and your active efforts to commit genocide where ever and whenever possible......what will be left for you to own and control? And when this end comes.....at what point will you turn on each other?
Marti Oakley (c)2008/2010
Owning the Weather in 2025
http://www.fas.org/spp/military/docops/usaf/2025/v3c15/v3c15-1.htm
Nanotechnology http://www.fas.org/spp/military/docops/usaf/2025/v3c15/v3c15-1.htm
Judge Rules Health Care Law Is Unconstitutional
Published January 31, 2011
| FoxNews.com
A U.S. district judge on Monday threw out the nation's health care law, declaring it unconstitutional because it violates the Commerce Clause and surely reviving a feud among competing philosophies about the role of government.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/31/judges-ruling-health-care-lawsuit-shift-momentum-coverage-debate/
I heard they're basically going to ignore the judge's ruling and move forward as though it didn't happen.
Quote from: Nathan on February 03, 2011, 09:12:23 PM
I heard they're basically going to ignore the judge's ruling and move forward as though it didn't happen.
The Republican house has to fund it. Good luck with that.
'In the meantime, he is keeping a close eye on the Middle East. He was struck by the Egyptian protesters' discipline in remaining peaceful, and especially by their lack of fear. "That is straight out of Gandhi," Mr. [Gene] Sharp said. "If people are not afraid of the dictatorship, that dictatorship is in big trouble."'
--New York Times, Feb 16, 2011
http://www.aeinstein.org/organizations/org/FDTD.pdf
Romans 8:15
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Here you go, ww. A conference in Amsterdam on hidden technology. You free on April 3? :winkgrin:
http://www.secretspaceprogram.com/
Bin Laden, possibly dead.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/05/01/usama-bin-laden-dead-say-sources/ (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/05/01/usama-bin-laden-dead-say-sources/)
Possibly a psy-op. Officials are now parroting warnings about possible revenge strikes. Coming soon to a town near you: Another False Flag?
Or perhaps just part of his election campaign.
a] Bin Laden caught.
b] Abu Ghraib where not innocent because they gave info that led to Bin's capture.
c] The same prisoners warned of a nuclear hell. Good reason to bump up military spending a notch.
Quote from: thinktank on May 02, 2011, 11:48:28 PM
Bin Laden, possibly dead.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/05/01/usama-bin-laden-dead-say-sources/ (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/05/01/usama-bin-laden-dead-say-sources/)
yeah it's amazing how he managed to get dialysis three times a week in those caves for ten years. :mblush:
This is the real story that is not being reported:
130 thousand plus acres of farmland being destroyed by the blowing of levee's yesterday. This has been the subject of a fierce court battle as the state of Missouri sought to save its farmers from destruction by the army corps of engineers. Of course, cnn and fox had nothing to say about this last night. We don't need no farmland. Let them eat cake!
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/03/us-weather-flooding-decision-idUSTRE7420L620110503
"So bye-bye, miss american pie.
Drove my chevy to the levee,
But the levee was dry.
And them good old boys were drinkin' whiskey and rye
Singin', "this'll be the day that I die.
"this'll be the day that I die."
Once again he glanced at his rival in the opposite cubicle. Something seemed to tell him with certainty that Tillotson was busy on the same job as himself. There was no way of knowing whose job would finally be adopted, but he felt a profound conviction that it would be his own. Comrade Ogilvy, unimagined an hour ago, was now a fact. It struck him as curious that you could create dead men but not living ones. Comrade Ogilvy, who had never existed in the present, now existed in the past, and when once the act of forgery was forgotten, he would exist just as authentically, and upon the same evidence, as Charlemagne or Julius Caesar.
--Geo Orwell, 1984
http://www.george-orwell.org/1984/3.html
Quote from: WhiteWings on May 03, 2011, 12:57:42 PM
Or perhaps just part of his election campaign.
a] Bin Laden caught.
b] Abu Ghraib where not innocent because they gave info that led to Bin's capture.
c] The same prisoners warned of a nuclear hell. Good reason to bump up military spending a notch.
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/05/03/uk-britain-sellafield-idUKTRE74226O20110503
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-13268834
Quote from: Molly on May 03, 2011, 01:21:14 PMyeah it's amazing how he managed to get dialysis three times a week in those caves for ten years. :mblush:
http://theintelhub.com/2010/12/24/osama-bin-dead-awhile/
If he really died a few days ago, it was exactly 66 year after Hitler.
Oh my :sigh:
Quote from: WhiteWings on May 03, 2011, 10:06:11 PM
Quote from: Molly on May 03, 2011, 01:21:14 PMyeah it's amazing how he managed to get dialysis three times a week in those caves for ten years. :mblush:
http://theintelhub.com/2010/12/24/osama-bin-dead-awhile/
If he really died a few days ago, it was exactly 66 year after Hitler.
Osama Bin Laden Pronounced Dead...For the Ninth Time.http://www.activistpost.com/2011/05/osama-bin-laden-pronounced-deadfor.html
lol
A cat has nine lives. Bin has run out of them.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2011/05/president-obama-had-authorized-bombing-of-compound-in-march-but-wanting-evidence-of-obls-death-cance.html
QuoteSources tell ABC News that in March President Obama authorized the development of a plan for the U.S. to bomb Osama bin Laden's Abbottabad compound with two B2 stealth bombers dropping a few dozen 2,000-pound JDAMs (Joint Direct Attack Munitions) on the compound.
But when the president heard the compound would be reduced to rubble he chose not to pursue that option.
That would mean there would be no evidence bin Laden was dead to present to the world – no DNA evidence, as the administration anticipates it will have.
And on an other occasion they ran DNA tests on the pilots of vaporized planes and found passports in mint condition :winkgrin:
Maybe they are lucky again....
At least the campaign shows that a well executed and clean operation can be deployed without resorting to destructive bombing, which can kill innocent bystanders.
:sigh: And they wasted billions and countless lives trying to find him for years, when I've said from the beginning he has to have at least one bitter ex-wife around who didn't go into hiding and would gladly hunt him down for free :winkgrin:
As we enter the third century of the suppression of science, voices continue to be silenced... :sigh:
Heresy in Israel! Chief education scientist dismissed for denying evolution and global warming
by Shaun Doyle
Dr Gavriel Avital, former chief scientist for the Israeli education ministry, is the latest of a long series of high-profile scientists 'Expelled' for voicing skepticism at evolution.
Published: 19 October 2010(GMT+10)
Heresy. Is that the right word to use here? It seems so harsh! But that is precisely how skepticism of evolution1 and anthropogenic global warming2 are treated in modern academic, political, and social discourse. Creationists can't really expect a fair hearing in the public square any more. Any who hint that even ID should be given a hearing, even if they make plain their allegiance to the orthodox Darwinist dogma, are berated, ostracized, and even dismissed from their employ. Dr Gavriel Avital is merely the latest of a long series of high-profile scientists who have voiced skepticism at these sacred cows of modern academia and has paid the ultimate professional price—termination.
Avital's case
Education Minister Gideon Sa'ar has dismissed the chief scientist of his ministry, Dr Gavriel Avital, over his statements denying the "fundamental tenets of science"—evolution and anthropogenic global warming.3 The news reports are quite straightforward; there is no other cited reason for his dismissal.3
Avital has been an outspoken critic of evolution and anthropogenic global warming during his time as chief scientist, and has attracted the disapproval of numerous scientists in Israel for it. In February 2010 two Israeli Nobel Prize laureates issued an open letter to Gideon Sa'ar saying,
"We don't see any alternative other than to replace Dr. Gavriel Avital with an individual suited to fill the position, one who could do so faithfully and professionally."4
Lest any think it was because of poor performance that these scientists wanted him sacked, the letter went on to state:
"We view Dr. Avital's remarks gravely because they undermine the standing and importance of science and take us centuries backward, even as the world celebrates the importance of Charles Darwin's discoveries and the great contributions he made to human knowledge and scientific development, and is striving to uproot benighted doctrines such as intelligent design."4
I find remarks such as this perplexing. I wonder what the creationists Newton, Kepler, Pasteur, Lister, Maxwell, Joule, Kelvin, Steno, Faraday, etc. would think of such comments. All but three were contemporaries of Darwin, and a number were very public in their criticisms of his work.
His personal doubts about evolution are well known, but what exactly did Avital propose as the educational solution? He said:
"If textbooks state explicitly that human beings' origins are to be found with monkeys, I would want students to pursue and grapple with other opinions."3
He's not talking about not allowing evolution to be taught—he assumes children will be taught evolution because it's in the textbooks. Rather he simply wants to give children the right to hear other views. Avital is not the one suppressing alternate views—evolutionists are.
Evolutionists' tactics to silence their opponents
Evolutionists are in the habit of bullying and forcibly silencing their critics. Confessed evolutionists Michael Reiss and Richard Sternberg were dismissed from their posts because they hinted that people should be able to think for themselves about creation/evolution. Creationists and ID proponents have suffered similar fates, whether students, teachers, or academics (See Discrimination against creation scientists).
Whenever creationists try to discuss the evidence, typical evolutionist responses are: "all true scientists believe in evolution", "creationists are liars", or "creationists don't publish articles in the peer-reviewed literature". Such 'arguments' are just more smokescreens evolutionists use to avoid dealing with the actual arguments.
"All true scientists believe in evolution" presumes a self-serving and inaccurate definition of "scientist". Though a minority, there are many practising scientists (with Ph.Ds. and active in scientific research) both past and present who don't believe in evolution. It also presumes that majority vote decides truth. As evolutionists are so fond of pointing out, Copernicus and Galileo were almost lone soldiers fighting the tide of geocentrism. And yet we know today that the majority were wrong, and Galileo and Copernicus were right.5 But this is a double-edged sword—evolution cannot be proclaimed right just because it has the majority vote in academia.
For a similar reason, the appeal to "peer-reviewed literature" holds no water either. Evolutionists are the "peers" who review and edit such journals. How can IDers and creationists expect to get a fair hearing when evolutionists won't let them speak?6
Creationists are often branded "liars", or are treated as committing some 'sin' against 'science' by their very existence. However, this idea of 'science' is more like scientism, which states that science is the only way of knowing. However, that very premise can't be proved scientifically, so it's a self-defeating statement and thus false. Neither is evolution a scientific question, it's a historical question, just like creation. It needs experimental science to make its historical reconstructions plausible,7 but the reconstruction itself is interpretation based squarely on some form of naturalism—God either doesn't exist, can't act in history, or refuses to. Evolutionists play fast and loose with the term "science" (whether knowingly or not) because the public views "science" as reliable. Science is a very useful way of investigating the world, but evolution is not science.
These charges have been answered time and again, and yet evolutionists generally respond merely by putting up the same smokescreens (they are not legitimate arguments), or by actively seeking to discredit and silence the dissenters. There are no attempts at rebuttals, because to do so they'd have to acknowledge there are arguments to rebut.
Why such language and tactics?
They assert that the truth of evolution is so obvious that it's impossible to honestly disagree with it if someone understands it.
Such emotive and religious sentiments are communicated not just because evolution is assumed to be true. It's more than that. Secularism's fundamental tenet is not a denial of the existence of a god/s per se, but that said god/s never interfere in the real, physical world.8 This is assumed to be intuitively obvious—i.e. it's impossible to reasonably disagree with. This principle is applied to evolution, so they then assert that the truth of evolution is so obvious that it's impossible to honestly disagree with it if someone understands it. Dawkins says it most bluntly:
"It is absolutely safe to say that if you meet somebody who claims not to believe in evolution, that person is ignorant, stupid or insane (or wicked, but I'd rather not consider that)."9
Such a worldview ignores both philosophy10 and the history of science.11 But secularism must sustain such a view in order to survive, and creationism and ID call that very foundation into question. Therefore, we became the heretics—the pariahs of a secular regime that will do anything to keep any god (especially the Christian God which it rebelled against) from interfering in history. But since we know that the God who intervened in history, the God of the Bible, is also its sovereign, secularism cannot win.
http://creation.com/heresy-in-israel-gavriel-avital
chief scientist for the Israeli education ministry.
I can understand the evolutionists want to push their idea's.
But evolustion is debunked or at least greatly challenged by other fields of science (micro-biology) and imo by statistics.
I've never seen a Israeli school book on the subject but my guess is that it's full of Haeckel drawings and the classic fish to man drawings.
It makes me wonder why those that kicked Avital out, don't make sure the "new" idea's on evolution are put in the schoolbooks.
Flat earth science has long been removed from schoolbooks. Why that old evolution view is still in the books? Or at the very least present both scientific views.
If it comes down to it microbiology is much more science than the classic evolution theory. Microbiologists can show and prove things they claim over and over in their labs.
While the Darwinian camp has so much black holes in their theory a whole creation fits into it....
If you are asking why don't they do a better job of propaganda, ww, I would have to surmise because they don't have to as they are in total control now.
Either that, or they are subject to fits of sloppiness.
We see the same problem everywhere, even in the reporting of various stories in the media. They just can't seem to get their act together, or they won't.
This man was apparently in charge of science education before he was fired, but he is also a noted scientist himself. I wonder if he'll be able to get hired anywhere now.
My guess is that it will be hard. Climate skeptics have problems getting hired too.
QuoteIf you are asking why don't they do a better job of propaganda, ww,
I editted my message. I managed to contradict myself is one sentance :winkgrin:
Dunno if it's all propaganda. People have different views on anything. Sports, politics, denominations, etc.
But a school should teach all recognized views.
1984 is one of my favorite pieces of literature, I've read it several times and have written essays about it.
But I think we will fall into a scenario similar to Aldous Huxley's Brave New World before an Orwellian state ever arises.
Quote from: WhiteWings on May 19, 2011, 12:56:20 PM
My guess is that it will be hard. Climate skeptics have problems getting hired too.
QuoteIf you are asking why don't they do a better job of propaganda, ww,
I editted my message. I managed to contradict myself is one sentance :winkgrin:
Dunno if it's all propaganda. People have different views on anything. Sports, politics, denominations, etc.
But a school should teach all recognized views.
Not in America!
Weep with me...or go back to sleep...Or let's go to the airports, streets, and bus stations and start singing together...
My country,' tis of thee,
sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing;
land where my fathers died,
land of the pilgrims' pride,
from every mountainside let freedom ring!
2. My native country, thee,
land of the noble free, thy name I love;
I love thy rocks and rills,
thy woods and templed hills;
my heart with rapture thrills, like that above.
3. Let music swell the breeze,
and ring from all the trees sweet freedom's song;
let mortal tongues awake;
let all that breathe partake;
let rocks their silence break, the sound prolong.
4. Our fathers' God, to thee,
author of liberty, to thee we sing;
long may our land be bright
with freedom's holy light;
protect us by thy might, great God, our King.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.hymnsite.com/lyrics/umh697.sht
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ciZjAAaK_4&feature=related
http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2011/06/01/mta-officers-detain-man-for-taking-pictures/
Hello to you, and glad to meet you from me 2011!
BLUEBIRD
Deliberate Creation of Multiple
Personality by Psychiatrists
By Colin A. Ross MD
A 10-Page Summary
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In this summary of Bluebird, Dr. Ross describes unethical experiments conducted by psychiatrists to create amnesia, new identities, hypnotic access codes, and new memories in the minds of experimental subjects. His research is based on 15,000 pages of documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act. Dr. Ross is a past president of the International Society for the Study of Dissociation. Please help to spread the word.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Historical Background
The Manchurian Candidate is compelling evidence for the reality of therapist-created multiple personality disorder. The condition has been created deliberately by mind control doctors. Experiments to create Manchurian Candidate "super spies" must be understood in their social and historical context, which is one of pervasive, systematic mind control experimentation, not by a few isolated renegade doctors, but by the leaders of psychiatry and the major medical schools. Because this book is likely to provoke extreme reactions, I have taken great care to present only facts which are fully documented and based on objective, public domain information. Page E
The basic premise of the book The Manchurian Candidate [1] is that a group of American POWs in the Korean War is brainwashed while crossing through Manchuria to freedom. They arrive back in the US amnesic for the period of brainwashing, and one of them has been programmed to be an assassin. His target is a candidate for president of the US. His Asian handlers control him with a hypnotically implanted trigger, a particular playing card. P. 23
Multiple personality disorder is now classified by the American Psychiatric Association [2] as dissociative identity disorder. According to my definition, the Manchurian Candidate is an experimentally created dissociative identity disorder that meets the following four criteria:
Created deliberately
A new identity is implanted
Amnesia barriers are created
Used in simulated or actual operations
That the CIA created Manchurian Candidates is a fact, and easy to understand and justify from a national security perspective. I am not criticizing the CIA or the military because I am not an expert on intelligence matters. I am a psychiatrist specializing in dissociative disorders. Page G
BLUEBIRD blows the whistle on extensive political abuse of psychiatry in North America in the second half of the 20th century. Many thousands of prisoners and mental patients were subjected to unethical mind control experiments by leading psychiatrists and medical schools. Organized academic psychiatry has never acknowledged this history. The network of mind control doctors involved in BLUEBIRD has done a great deal of harm to the field of psychiatry and to psychiatric patients. My goal is to break the ugly silence. Page K
The participation of psychiatrists and medical schools in mind control research was not a matter of a few scattered doctors pursuing questionable lines of investigation. Rather, the mind control experimentation was systematic, organized, and involved many leading psychiatrists and medical schools. The mind control experiments were interwoven with radiation experiments, and research on chemical and biological weapons. They were funded by the CIA, Army, Navy, Air Force, and by other agencies including the Public Health Service and the Scottish Rite Foundation. Page F
The psychiatrists, psychologists, neurosurgeons, and other contractors conducting the work were imbedded in a broad network of doctors. Much of the research was published in medical journals. The climate was permissive, supportive, and approving of mind control experimentation. P. F, 1
The work of the mind control doctors did not occur in a vacuum. The importation of Nazi doctors to the US through secret programs like PAPERCLIP is part of the context. After the end of World War II, German scientists and technical experts were being held in detainment camps. The British, French, Americans, and Russians became embroiled in highly competitive recruiting efforts to secure the services of these German specialists. The prospect of losing the industrial and scientific services of these German experts lead to the creation of Project PAPERCLIP. [3][4][5] P. 1, 3
Over 1,000 German scientists were secretly brought into the US without State Department approval. The most famous individual brought over in this manner was Werner von Braun, the rocket scientist. Von Braun was the head of the German V2 rocket program. The NASA rockets that took Neil Armstrong to the moon were built by von Braun and his colleagues. Medical doctors also came over under PAPERCLIP. P. 3, 4
Likewise, the Tuskeegee Syphilis Study helps us understand how mind control experimentation was not only tolerated by medical professionals, but published in peer-reviewed literature. [6][7] The Study, started in Alabama in 1932, was run by the Public Health Service. 399 illiterate, poor rural black men with syphilis were recruited as subjects, along with 201 controls without syphilis. The purpose of the Study was to make sure the 399 men never got treatment. The subjects and their families weren't told they had syphilis and didn't know it was treatable. They were told that they had bad blood. P. 1, 9, 10
The cure for syphilis, penicillin, was introduced in the early 1940's. It was withheld from the Tuskeegee men for 30 years. The published results of the Study showed the men with untreated syphilis were sicker and died younger than controls. [8] How many women were infected with syphilis because these men were deliberately not treated? How many children were born with syphilis because of the Study? P. 11
The Tuskeegee Syphilis Study was eventually shut down in 1972 because of the efforts of an investigative journalist. There is no evidence to suggest that the government or the medical profession had any intention of closing the study as of 1972. People and organizations that knew about the Study included the Surgeon General, the American Heart Association, and the Center for Disease Control. Throughout its 40-year course, the Tuskeegee Study was praised and received various honors. P. 9-13
The Tuskeegee Study establishes that a large network of doctors and organization were willing to participate in, fund, and condone grossly unethical medical experimentation into the 1970's. The Study proves that considerable external pressure is often required before the medical profession takes the necessary action to terminate such experimentation. P. 14
Unethical radiation experiments were conducted on about 600 subjects [9][10][11] in the US beginning in the 1940's and running into the 1970's. Many people were injected with plutonium and exposed to other forms of radiation without their informed consent. 18 patients were injected with plutonium in an experiment run by the MANHATTAN PROJECT. Prisoners in Washington and Oregon state prisons were paid to have their testicles irradiated. They got $5 a month for the irradiation. During the experiment, which ran from 1963 to 1971, the subjects' testicles were exposed to 600 roentgen of radiation, which is 100 times the maximum recommended dose. P. 15-17
Clouds of radioactive material were released into the atmosphere and tracked as they moved downwind, often through populated areas. In one experiment code-named GREEN RUN, radioactive iodine-131 released from the Hanford Nuclear Facility drifted over Spokane. The cloud contained hundreds of times as much radiation as was released accidentally at Three Mile Island in 1979. P. 17
As was true of mind control and biological weapon research, radiation research experiments were conducted on children and unwitting civilians. In 1961, researchers at Harvard Medical School, Massachusetts General Hospital, and Boston University School of Medicine gave radioactive iodine to seventy retarded children at Wrentham State School. At Fernald School, MIT gave radioactive substances to children by putting it in their food. No risks of radioactivity were mentioned in the consent form signed by the parents. The consent form stated that the purpose of the experiments was "helping to improve the nutrition of our children." P. 15, 18
Dr. Saul Krugman of New York University and his staff deliberately injected severely mentally retarded children at Willowbrook State School with hepatitis virus in the 1950's and 1960's, [12] funded by the Army Medical Research and Development Command. To date there has been no compensation for victims of unethical biological experiments. P. 18, 19
Army doctors were actively involved in LSD testing at least until the late 1970's. Subjects of LSD experiments included children as young as five years old, and brain electrodes were implanted in children as young as 11 years of age. Four of the CIA's MKULTRA Subprojects were on children. The mind control doctors included Presidents of the American Psychiatric Association and psychiatrists who received full-page obituaries in the American Journal of Psychiatry. Responsibility for the unethical experimentation lies first with the individual doctors, but also collectively with the medical profession and with academia as a whole. P. 21
http://www.wanttoknow.info/bluebird10pg
I took LSD in the 70's I used cocaine, I smoked pot, I drank moonshine, I drank real whiskey, I smoked Camels(non filter for 40 years.) I also watched the original Manchurian Candidate, Easy Rider, The Graduate, just what is meant by "Welcome to 1984?" Orwell wrote a book that was futurist and it proved to me right on. But and just what has that to do with Jesus Christ The Saviour of the World? What has "Welcome to 1984?" to do with the the reconciliation? Its just me :sigh:
Quote from: micah7:9 on June 14, 2011, 07:51:31 AM
I took LSD in the 70's I used cocaine, I smoked pot, I drank moonshine, I drank real whiskey, I smoked Camels(non filter for 40 years.) I also watched the original Manchurian Candidate, Easy Rider, The Graduate, just what is meant by "Welcome to 1984?" Orwell wrote a book that was futurist and it proved to me right on. But and just what has that to do with Jesus Christ The Saviour of the World? What has "Welcome to 1984?" to do with the the reconciliation? Its just me :sigh:
You took LSD, Micah? Now you could knock me over with a feather. I never would have guessed that.
But, there is a huge difference between taking such a drug willingly, and it being given surreptitiously to young adults and children by medical doctors and prestigious universities for experimental reasons. Wouldn't you say?
Hebrews 5:14
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use
have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
:sigh: Have read some on the Manchurian candidates......none of it is surprising. Funny though, the US condemned the Nazis (and rightly so) for experimenting on the Jews and other prisoners, and yet the US was just as guilty of doing the same. How is He NOT going to hold this country accountable at some point?
:sigh:Best for me to just stay out this 1984 discussion, I never watched Startrek, and I was never into SciFi. I really dont like to mix the study of the Bible with politics. Tho I do find George Nori AM Radio, I find it interesting, the subjects and the tellers.
Quote from: micah7:9 on June 14, 2011, 07:51:31 AMChrist The Saviour of the World? What has "Welcome to 1984?" to do with the the reconciliation? Its just me :sigh:
All money will be reconciled in one pocket.
Yes.
Quote from: Molly on May 19, 2011, 11:27:15 AM
As we enter the third century of the suppression of science, voices continue to be silenced... :sigh:
Heresy in Israel! Chief education scientist dismissed for denying evolution and global warming
There are more deniers than most people know.
http://www.hetvrijevolk.com/files/docs/minorityreportwarming.pdf
Quote from: Cardinal on November 11, 2010, 05:33:56 PM
:sigh:
Posted By Dr. Mercola | November 11 2010 | 6,279 views
Share189
Over the past 15 years or so, a collection of five giant biotech corporations -- Monsanto, Syngenta, Bayer, Dow and DuPont -- have bought up more than 200 other companies, allowing them to dominate access to seeds.
Their weed killer Round up is even worse.
It attacks everything not being genetically manipulated Monsanto stuff. It has a half-time of 42 years. That means that only Monsanto crops will grow on the land because weed killer residu in the soil keeps killing the non gentech crops. That gives the farmers 2 choices. Only use Monsanta seed or don't use the land for decades....
Well.... they only have that choice if they are able to kill the new mutated superweed.... http://abcnews.go.com/WN/pig-weed-threatens-agriculture-industry-overtaking-fields-crops/Story?id=8766404&page=1
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/oldbusiness/1372852.stm
WW I find this post very interesting, Ive known some of it for sometime, still information good to know. But I ask you this question, finding out all this information that seems to be totally devastating to the world as we know it, do consider the thought that "everything" that has happened and is happening is the very way the Lord God has or had in mind?
Don't ask me. I'm no teacher..... :winkgrin:
I have a view on it. But that's a very slippery slope because it for example also means God had mass murder, rape and satanism in mind....
Anyway. God saw the future at creation. He still created as He created while He had the power to do things differently. So the answer is yes.
Whoops :mblush:
From what I have read, am told, and believe....in Gen.1:27 is that He is in the process of creating/preparing He hasnt finished yet.
While I agree that God's creative nature isn't finished . .. it's infinite really . . .
I'm not sure how you came to that by the reading of Genesis 1:27.
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them
I believe he created an atmosphere where creativeness is in the atmosphere . . .
2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
The face of the deep and the face of the waters are actually two different things. The word "waters" actually has connections with the word "semen". The "moving" of the spirit over the face (identity) of the waters is to me an act of creativity just as a man and a woman "move" in intimacy for the seed of life to be released from man into the woman . . .the spirit of life was released into the womb of the earth, creating an atmosphere charged with atoms that react to voice command . . .And God "said" . . . we have that same power as the tongue has the power to kill or to give life. But literally . . .we have the power in our words to change our atmospheres . . .it delves into the quantum realm a bit, but it's truth nonetheless.
Bottom line . . ."in" this realm of death and decay, God created it also as a realm that reacts to our words to bring creative life, or constrictive destruction.
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 29, 2011, 09:32:45 PM
Don't ask me. I'm no teacher..... :winkgrin:
I have a view on it. But that's a very slippery slope because it for example also means God had mass murder, rape and satanism in mind....
Anyway. God saw the future at creation. He still created as He created while He had the power to do things differently. So the answer is yes.
Whoops :mblush:
To my mind, it's just the maturing of the wheat and the tares.
Evil has never before been so obvious to me as it is in this day.
That's why I keep telling you I can't wait another 20 years. :icon_king:
Quote from: micah7:9 on July 29, 2011, 10:47:40 PM
From what I have read, am told, and believe....in Gen.1:27 is that He is in the process of creating/preparing He hasnt finished yet.
Yes and no.
I think God stoped creating because it's still His Sabbath day.
But when Jesus was questioned by the priests about healing on Sabbath He answered something like "Doesn't Father heal on Sabbath also?"
If healing is creating then the answer is yes. Otherwise it's no.
I can't find the verse; but I'm sure someone can. :2c:
Quote from: Nathan on July 29, 2011, 11:40:12 PM
While I agree that God's creative nature isn't finished . .. it's infinite really . . .
I'm not sure how you came to that by the reading of Genesis 1:27.
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them
I believe he created an atmosphere where creativeness is in the atmosphere . . .
2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
The face of the deep and the face of the waters are actually two different things. The word "waters" actually has connections with the word "semen". The "moving" of the spirit over the face (identity) of the waters is to me an act of creativity just as a man and a woman "move" in intimacy for the seed of life to be released from man into the woman . . .the spirit of life was released into the womb of the earth, creating an atmosphere charged with atoms that react to voice command . . .And God "said" . . . we have that same power as the tongue has the power to kill or to give life. But literally . . .we have the power in our words to change our atmospheres . . .it delves into the quantum realm a bit, but it's truth nonetheless.
Bottom line . . ."in" this realm of death and decay, God created it also as a realm that reacts to our words to bring creative life, or constrictive destruction.
I believe and understand that it is the same for Gen 1:1 In the beginning of God's preparing the heavens and the earth-- (YLT) createdH1254 bârâ' A primitive root; (absolutely) to create; (qualified) to cut down (a wood), select, feed (as formative processes): - choose, create (creator), cut down, dispatch, do, make (fat).
These words are active
(H853) 'êth 1) sign of the definite direct object, not translated in English but generally preceding and indicating the accusative
God is creating.
Quote from: Molly on July 29, 2011, 11:51:23 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 29, 2011, 09:32:45 PM
Don't ask me. I'm no teacher..... :winkgrin:
I have a view on it. But that's a very slippery slope because it for example also means God had mass murder, rape and satanism in mind....
Anyway. God saw the future at creation. He still created as He created while He had the power to do things differently. So the answer is yes.
Whoops :mblush:
To my mind, it's just the maturing of the wheat and the tares.
Evil has never before been so obvious to me as it is in this day.
Ok. But that doesn't change my point/view. A all powerful God could have created a world without tars. But He didn't.
QuoteThat's why I keep telling you I can't wait another 20 years. :icon_king:
Sorry to inform you of this Molly but for you it will be 12 October 3011 :winkgrin:
I watched a documentary on that a few years ago.Basically they are eradica ting all natural strains of seed and going to monopolize the worlds food supply.
Mexico,a world reservoir of ancient corn,pure strains..is vey concerned of contamination by the genetical engineered strains.
It is falling from seed bags along the road and contaminating their pure strains.The corn looks very malformed,freaky
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 30, 2011, 12:00:12 AM
Quote from: Molly on July 29, 2011, 11:51:23 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 29, 2011, 09:32:45 PM
Don't ask me. I'm no teacher..... :winkgrin:
I have a view on it. But that's a very slippery slope because it for example also means God had mass murder, rape and satanism in mind....
Anyway. God saw the future at creation. He still created as He created while He had the power to do things differently. So the answer is yes.
Whoops :mblush:
To my mind, it's just the maturing of the wheat and the tares.
Evil has never before been so obvious to me as it is in this day.
Ok. But that doesn't change my point/view. A all powerful God could have created a world without tars. But He didn't.
He didn't because he obviously has a plan, which I suspect has to do with --He wants us to know how and why we love him with all our being.
QuoteThat's why I keep telling you I can't wait another 20 years. :icon_king:
Sorry to inform you of this Molly but for you it will be 12 October 3011 :winkgrin:
I was hoping more for 28 Sept, 2011 at midnight. But to you he will come as a thief in the night. :icon_king:
Quote from: sheila on July 30, 2011, 12:05:59 AM
I watched a documentary on that a few years ago.Basically they are eradica ting all natural strains of seed and going to monopolize the worlds food supply.
Mexico,a world reservoir of ancient corn,pure strains..is vey concerned of contamination by the genetical engineered strains.
It is falling from seed bags along the road and contaminating their pure strains.The corn looks very malformed,freaky
They think they are so brilliant, patenting the world's food supply.
Who would think of this, if not Satan?
Quote from: WhiteWings on July 29, 2011, 09:32:45 PM
Don't ask me. I'm no teacher..... :winkgrin:
I have a view on it. But that's a very slippery slope because it for example also means God had mass murder, rape and satanism in mind....
Anyway. God saw the future at creation. He still created as He created while He had the power to do things differently. So the answer is yes.
Whoops :mblush:
HE puts forth the circumstance for situations to be worked out by our human/carnal frame and how mans heart/mind will choose
as for the right or wrong such as rape, murder, or kindness or helping life. No God did not have mass murder on His mind, but He knew how the breathing creature would work and it would not all be for the good. Man will chose evil or good depending on what situation man is in at the time. He would not have done anything, nothing differently.
Quote from: Molly on July 30, 2011, 12:09:04 AM
Quote from: sheila on July 30, 2011, 12:05:59 AM
I watched a documentary on that a few years ago.Basically they are eradica ting all natural strains of seed and going to monopolize the worlds food supply.
Mexico,a world reservoir of ancient corn,pure strains..is vey concerned of contamination by the genetical engineered strains.
It is falling from seed bags along the road and contaminating their pure strains.The corn looks very malformed,freaky
They think they are so brilliant, patenting the world's food supply.
Let's hope they don't make gentech manna :winkgrin:
They are not only patenting the food supply but also are reducing it. The USA already lost many acres of farmland because of that mutated pig weed that even damages heavy farming equipment. Just guess how that would work out for the 3rd wiorld farmers that only have a rusted shovel....
QuoteWho would think of this, if not Satan?
I think they serve the god of deep pockets.
Gentech can be a good thing. But they use it for bad. For example there is good progress with crops growing on salty soil. So they can be watered with sea water. That could be very useful for some countries.
Centralization through corporate penetration of public institutions for the profit of the oligarchy is the devil.
Could God, the I AM, Almighty Lord and God have layed out a plan for His creation that allowed for all the mishaps and befalls that have come upon the world? Do you think that The Creator did not know of volcanos, earthquakes, hurricanes, tornadoes that would continue to push back mans enormous growth? I think not, He is in charge, in control, He KNOWS ALL THINGS.
And one of the faith and the walk needs to re-enforce his knowledge that it is the I AM who is deterimning the out come not the adversary.
Ezekiel 33:11
Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Ezekiel 18:32
For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.
I still see God wanting to save people from natural disaster even when he knows before hand.
If the salt has lost its savor(preserving power and flavor) it is no longer good for anything but to be cast out under the feet of men. The fire of God is in the eyes of Jesus and a two edged sword comes out of His mouth. We are being transformed into the same image. The enemies are not yet all subjected. As Jesus said, "Go tell Herod, that fox"..... and "You are blind leaders of the blind" and "Woe unto you, Pharisees, hypocrites". There is a proper place for reproof, warning and tearing the cover off of wickedness, it is a part of the preisthood and discipleship we have received in Jesus.
:cloud9: Just playing out the curse of mingled seed in the natural reallm. What is going on in the spiritual realms has to be played out for all to see in the natural realms. My :2c:
I'd take that a step further and say what's happening in the natural realm is already finished in the spiritual realm. It's just that "this" realm is bound by the natural laws, time being the biggest one. But Spirit is outside of the grasp of both time "and" reasoning. That's why we truly "can" enter into a 1000 year reign with Christ NOW because it's not about a measurement of time, instead it's about an intimate relationship with Christ. He "is" the 1000 year reign . . .but as they say, to those who still choose to "wait" for it to literally unfold . . .let them wait.
I think some things "play out" while some must be "lived out" by someone. The prophets were very involved in speaking to the specifics of the corrupt ways of men. They payed the ultimate price for their "speaking" which came out of the "logos". Let there be light, light out of darkness, division of chaos into order and harmony by "speaking". In every age the light shines in the darkness and the darkness cannot overcome it.... even as Jesus spoke specifically to the ways in which the Jews and the Romans used power to oppress people. Woe to you lawyers and Pharisees.!
IMO, if, as we fathom out the secrets of God, it does not translate into an invasive expression of light into the darkness of men, accompanied by practical, earthly, ministrations of food, kindness, warmth, healing- it is as James said, "Worthless". Or as Jesus said, " I was hungry and you did not feed me, I was sick and you did not visit me, I was naked and you did not clothe me- Depart from me you lawless ones(law of love violators), I never knew you!"
last six weeks or so,I have been on a 'google' search. signs of the times,site,believers underground,earth changes etc....and what is happening is a real
eye opener..of the state of things. If you had said,'this world is corrupt' to me..then I would have said..'I know this world is corrupt' It's like seeing only
the tip of an ice-berg....then have it's full size come into veiw. the sheer enormity of it all..left me somewhat 'shell-shocked' for awhile..the precariousness
of life on this planet..in the natural. My final conclusion? by the power and grace of God alone does this planet exist. Constellations clashing,asteroids
whizzing by....post-glacier rebound...corruption,greed and malice between nations...there's an island of Africa ready to slide into the sea[LaPalma] that
could devestae the eastern seaboard with a tsunami[and it's become active in that are with volcanoes]
I live in the New Madrid....Fema has already stockpiles supplies for the big quake coming,lot'sof bodybags readied,blankets,mre's and bottled water..the government
is preparing for mega-death scenario's.
Quote from: sheila on December 01, 2011, 11:52:28 PM
I live in the New Madrid
(I grew up in New Madrid County, now live about 40 miles south of St. Louis :)
I'm amazed at how mainstream these conspiracies and news have become. I just saw a man say on national tv, that there was no moon landing and also saw a scientist of some sort say president met up with aliens, and said this is public documents. It was kind of weird hearing this stuff on national tv, almost as if, I have heard it before a million times, but yet not :dontknow:. I wonder what the public make of this stuff, it seems to be a zombie reaction these days, where somebody could say I invented time travel and there would be blank stares, it seems these type of conspiracy theories are no longer shocking, such is the state of crazy things of todays society, where anything goes.
Also seen a political woman talk about recession could cause world war.
I find it is no longer the case that, there is hush hush and cover ups about these things.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63FNwo0ysi4&feature=g-vrec (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63FNwo0ysi4&feature=g-vrec)
well....He said there was nothing hidden that would not be revealed. Somehow, I didn't fathom this kind of stuff. Also, many would go to and fro..and
knowledge would increase[but I didn't fathom this kind of stuff.][I thought spiritual,and that is true too/mixed seed like Card says]
Jabcat, I live in southwestern Indiana,Rose lives about 80miles south-west of me.
Quote from: Cardinal on December 01, 2011, 04:21:20 PM
:cloud9: Just playing out the curse of mingled seed in the natural reallm. What is going on in the spiritual realms has to be played out for all to see in the natural realms. My :2c:
What do you mean by the mingled seed? I've seen this on a hebrew roots website, and they're talking about nephilim coming back as aliens and deceiving the nations with a literal beast/antichrist, that is a hybrid.
Quote from: sheila on December 01, 2011, 11:52:28 PM
last six weeks or so,I have been on a 'google' search. signs of the times,site,believers underground,earth changes etc....and what is happening is a real
eye opener..of the state of things. If you had said,'this world is corrupt' to me..then I would have said..'I know this world is corrupt' It's like seeing only
the tip of an ice-berg....then have it's full size come into veiw. the sheer enormity of it all..left me somewhat 'shell-shocked' for awhile..the precariousness
of life on this planet..in the natural. My final conclusion? by the power and grace of God alone does this planet exist. Constellations clashing,asteroids
whizzing by....post-glacier rebound...corruption,greed and malice between nations...there's an island of Africa ready to slide into the sea[LaPalma] that
could devestae the eastern seaboard with a tsunami[and it's become active in that are with volcanoes]
I live in the New Madrid....Fema has already stockpiles supplies for the big quake coming,lot'sof bodybags readied,blankets,mre's and bottled water..the government
is preparing for mega-death scenario's.
UNWOUND
I have a target on my back,
A gyroscope
Spinning in my head,
I have a crystal in my heart
Radio Art
Blood red.
You've got the horse behind the cart-
You push
and push
and push
But you cannot wear me down.
Get this......
My world is comin on,
Yours is comin unwound.
If I tell you,
"I have seen it"
You might lay me underground.
If I tell you,
"I have heard it"
You would rob the world of sound.
If I tell you
"I am not afraid,"
You push
and push
and push
But you can't wear me down.
My world is comin on
Yours is comin unwound.
Quote from: redhotmagma on December 02, 2011, 03:31:35 AM
Quote from: Cardinal on December 01, 2011, 04:21:20 PM
:cloud9: Just playing out the curse of mingled seed in the natural reallm. What is going on in the spiritual realms has to be played out for all to see in the natural realms. My :2c:
What do you mean by the mingled seed? I've seen this on a hebrew roots website, and they're talking about nephilim coming back as aliens and deceiving the nations with a literal beast/antichrist, that is a hybrid.
:cloud9: In this instance, I was referring to their tampering genetically with actual seeds. And I didn't know there were any people who think what you mentioned. Very close to something He spoke to me about the nephilim and their creation of hybrids, and I was not a "believer" in such things. Blessings....
Quote from: Nathan on December 01, 2011, 10:57:59 PM
I'd take that a step further and say what's happening in the natural realm is already finished in the spiritual realm. It's just that "this" realm is bound by the natural laws, time being the biggest one. But Spirit is outside of the grasp of both time "and" reasoning. That's why we truly "can" enter into a 1000 year reign with Christ NOW because it's not about a measurement of time, instead it's about an intimate relationship with Christ. He "is" the 1000 year reign . . .but as they say, to those who still choose to "wait" for it to literally unfold . . .let them wait.
:cloud9: EXACTLY :thumbsup:
Quote from: Cardinal on December 02, 2011, 03:27:49 PM
Quote from: Nathan on December 01, 2011, 10:57:59 PM
I'd take that a step further and say what's happening in the natural realm is already finished in the spiritual realm. It's just that "this" realm is bound by the natural laws, time being the biggest one. But Spirit is outside of the grasp of both time "and" reasoning. That's why we truly "can" enter into a 1000 year reign with Christ NOW because it's not about a measurement of time, instead it's about an intimate relationship with Christ. He "is" the 1000 year reign . . .but as they say, to those who still choose to "wait" for it to literally unfold . . .let them wait.
:cloud9: EXACTLY :thumbsup:
So there is something to "wait" for. I hope you are not being arrogant about your salvation. Much of the world, as Jesus said the meek shall inherit the earth, blessed are they that mourn for they shall be comforted.