Welcome to 1984

[WhiteWings]

Only price influences energy consumption.

Price of oil is based on the perception of the supply versus the demand.  Which is why we will see 6 dollar a gallon at the fuel pump before the end of the year unless a miracle happens.

Supply and demand certainly exists but partly a myth. There can be an agreement on a minimum price. All kind of trading bumps up the price. All kind of costs. Etc

It's a given that demand is increasing.  We might stop drilling for oil with superdeep wells

Drilling continues. You can bet on that.

Carbon-tax. Other tax (66% tax on gas here)

What do you expect?  You live in a [soft] Communist country.  :laughing7:

Ha we are getting on that road again :winkgrin: Fine if you admit the USA is a soft communist country too I'll prove it to you (by your own reasoning).
Spill it Molly  :laughing7:

[Molly]

Supply and demand certainly exists but partly a myth

It's completely a myth.  It is what makes Satan's economy work.

God's economy is one of abundance, as we are witnessing in the Gulf right now.

Ooops, the cat's out of the bag for anyone who would have eyes to see.

Ha we are getting on that road again  Fine if you admit the USA is a soft communist country too I'll prove it to you (by your own reasoning).
Spill it Molly 

Until recently, we have been a soft fascist country.  Right now the communists and fascists are fighting over us.  Hopefully, they will eat their young and leave us to live in freedom and peace.


14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

--Rev 12

[WhiteWings]

God's economy is one of abundance, as we are witnessing in the Gulf right now.

Devine Brits  :laughing7: (Taffy is gonna hate it if BP goes bankrupt)

If oil wasn't brownish/black... ^KJVRev 8:9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died;

[Molly]

God's economy is one of abundance, as we are witnessing in the Gulf right now.

Devine Brits  :laughing7: (Taffy is gonna hate it if BP goes bankrupt)

If oil wasn't brownish/black... ^KJVRev 8:9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died;

Yes, but it has a good ending.

If only it wouldn't take so much to wake people up... :sigh:

[Beloved Servant]

Perhaps, it's a portent of good things, after all, oil is used to anoint.

[WhiteWings]

Perhaps, it's a portent of good things, after all, oil is used to anoint.

There are words from HS and from satan.
There is anoiting oil and crude/annoying oil.
I fear that's closer to the truth.

[WhiteWings]

God's economy is one of abundance, as we are witnessing in the Gulf right now.

Devine Brits  :laughing7: (Taffy is gonna hate it if BP goes bankrupt)

If oil wasn't brownish/black... ^KJVRev 8:9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died;

Yes, but it has a good ending.

Yes if you like sardines in oil. Not if you are a sardine  :laughing7:
I don't see any bright side on the oil spil. Only lots of trouble and even more trouble.

[Molly]

I don't see any bright side on the oil spil. Only lots of trouble and even more trouble.

I think we need to look at this the way a homicide detective looks at a crime scene.  Here we sit knowing nothing about the oil business and yet, look at the information that is readily available to us.  Is this being handled the way you would handle it, knowing what you know?  No.  I'm sure it isn't.  Everyone is being forced to watch this unfold while nothing is being done.  Surely the WH knows even more than we do, and they are dancing and looking smug.  Why?  What is there to look smug about?

Meanwhile, BP is being demonized right into the ground, but they are handcuffed to that rig and being given no help.  The entire industry would help if they were allowed.  The Army core of Engineers would help.  Foreign countries would help.  But the WH says no--BP will remain handcuffed alone to the rig until they are as far underwater as the rig itself.  And, meanwhile, the Gulf fills up with crude.

So, what do you think is going on here, Watson?  It's kind of reminiscent of 911 when we waited and waited for the Air Force which never showed up.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I think they're hellbent on having their one world order and will exploit anything to get us one step closer to that. Blessings...

[WhiteWings]

Dirty political trick. Greed. Power. Arrogance. I can believe all that.
But perhaps they are really dealing with things on the edge of technology. Or over the edge.
Nuke the hole. Might work. But it just as well could turn a 7 inch hole into a 7feet hole.
:sigh:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9:  Or create a volcano or a new continental divide, as some have suggested.  :sigh:

[WhiteWings]

:cloud9:  Or create a volcano or a new continental divide, as some have suggested.  :sigh:

Do you have a link to that claim?
I can only imagine one way for that to happen. And right now, with my limited knowledge, that seems unrealistic.

[WhiteWings]

http://green.autoblog.com/2010/06/16/bp-buys-into-kevin-costners-oil-spill-clean-up-plan-orders-32/
http://www.screenjunkies.com/movienews/kevin-costner-solves-bp-oil-spill


Earlier he tried to sell his machines but that was impossible because they are not certified.
To get them certified they have to be tested on a oil spill. But only cerified machines are allowed to be used on oil spills... :winkgrin:

[Molly]

To get them certified they have to be tested on a oil spill. But only cerified machines are allowed to be used on oil spills...

Was that in one of the links?  Or are you just postulating how it will go from history? Sort of like how the Coast Guard just grounded 16 barges off Plaquemines Parish because they didn't have enough life preservers?

Today Thad Allen said they are building new skimmers.  Building skimmers? Costner's invention sounds good, but those have to be built, too. I'm so glad we have all the time in the world. :mshock:

Have I mentioned...

....supertankerssupertankerssupertankerssupertankerssupertanke?

Oil floats, dagnabbit!  Unless you sink it with dispersants.

[WhiteWings]

To get them certified they have to be tested on a oil spill. But only cerified machines are allowed to be used on oil spills...

Was that in one of the links?  Or are you just postulating how it will go from history?

No. It was in an article in Dutch. Couldn't find a link in English stating the same.
Costner sccidebtly met a member of Congres in a cafeteria in Washington. He got invited to to a special Senate comitee this week.

Sort of like how the Coast Guard just grounded 16 barges off Plaquemines Parish because they didn't have enough life preservers?

Some people are like robots following orders.

Today Thad Allen said they are building new skimmers.  Building skimmers? Costner's invention sounds good, but those have to be built, too. I'm so glad we have all the time in the world. :mshock:

I assume/hope Costner at least has one working machine?

Oil floats, dagnabbit!  Unless you sink it with dispersants.

Nature itself is a dispersant too...
Even mixing crude with sand sinks it

The heavier portions of crude oil coagulate into tar patties, a sticky oil and water mixture, and may even wash upon shore or sink to the bottom. The 28% that sinks to the bottom of the sea mixes with sediments, and can turn into a thick-tar –like mass that destroys the habitat of many bottom-dwelling organisms and valuable spawning site for fauna.
The density of Class C oils may be near that of water and they often sink.

Plus also consider things down there are a bit diffrent due to high pressure.

[Molly]

Call Congress.  Fire Thad Allen and put General Honore in charge.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeTV021O9Ls


General Honore is the man who evacuated New Orleans after Katrina.  He evacuated the city in 24 hours once he was brought in.  He's a natural and trusted leader.

I assume/hope Costner at least has one working machine?

I think he only has a prototype.

[Molly]

Nature itself is a dispersant too...
Even mixing crude with sand sinks it

We're talking worse case scenario 100 million gallons of oil leaked into the Gulf to date [probably more, actually].  And it's spewing out at the rate of 2 to 4 million gallons a day.  We are on day 60.  They are still trying to suck it up with a straw.  Someone should hand Obama a straw on his next visit and tell him to go at it...

[WhiteWings]

The cleaning up of teh surface in not going well. But at least there is technology for that.
But what about teh clouds near the sea floor? Mile long straw?
No matter who's to blame etc. I've not heard of a single solution to clean up the seafloor....

[WhiteWings]

BP Aware Of Cracks In Oil Well Two Months Before Explosion

Thursday, June 17, 2010

BP was aware of cracks appearing in the Macondo well as far back as February, right around the time Goldman Sachs and BP Chairman Tony Hayward were busy dumping their stocks in the company on the eve of the explosion that led to the oil spill, according to information uncovered by congressional investigators.

The Mining and Mineral Services agency released documents to Bloomberg indicating that BP "was trying to seal cracks in the well about 40 miles (64 kilometers) off the Louisiana coast," according to the report.

The fissures, which BP began to attempt to fix on February 13, could have played a role in the disaster, though this is a question still being explored by investigators. Improperly sealed, the cracks cause explosive natural gas to rush up the shaft.

"The company attempted a "cement squeeze," which involves pumping cement to seal the fissures, according to a well activity report. Over the following week the company made repeated attempts to plug cracks that were draining expensive drilling fluid, known as "mud," into the surrounding rocks," states the report.

As we previously highlighted, eyewitness evidence indicates that Deepwater Horizon managers knew that the BP oil rig had major problems before its explosion on April 20. A crew member who rescued burning workers on the rig told Houston attorney Tony Buzbee of a conversation between Deepwater Horizon installation manager Jimmy Harrell and someone in Houston. According to the witness, Harrell was screaming, "Are you f*****g happy? Are you f*****g happy? The rig's on fire! I told you this was gonna happen."

The fact that BP managers were aware of problems with the rig and were seemingly unconcerned about fixing them only lends more weight to the already startling indications of some having foreknowledge of the disaster.

As we highlighted last week, on page 37 of British Petroleum's own investigative report into the oil spill, it is stated that the Hydraulic Control System on equipment designed to automatically seal the well in an emergency was modified without BP's knowledge sometime before the explosion.

Highly suspicious stock and share trades by people connected to BP before the explosion indicate some extent of foreknowledge.

Goldman Sachs dumped 44% of its shares in BP Oil during the first quarter of 2010 – shares that subsequently lost 36 percent of their value, equating to $96 million. The current chairman of Goldman Sachs is Bilderberg luminary Peter Sutherland, who is also the former chairman of British Petroleum.

Furthermore, as reported by the London Telegraph on June 5th, Tony Hayward, the current BP CEO sold £1.4 million of his shares in the fuel giant weeks before the spill.

On April 12th, just over one week before the Deepwater Horizon rig exploded, Halliburton, the world's second largest oilfield services corporation, surprised some by acquiring Boots & Coots, a relatively small but vastly experienced oil well control company.

Halliburton is named in the majority of some two dozen lawsuits filed since the explosion by Gulf Coast people and businesses who claim that the company is to blame for the disaster.

Halliburton was forced to admit in testimony at a congressional hearing last month that it carried out a cementing operation 20 hours before the Gulf of Mexico rig went up in flames. The lawsuits claim that four Halliburton workers stationed on the rig improperly capped the well.

[Molly]

GORDON DUFF: THE CARDBOARD LOTHARIOS
June 17, 2010



ANALYZING STAGED WORLD CONFLICT
By Gordon Duff STAFF WRITER/Senior Editor

"If those papers have to be produced over the nukes that later got lost in Oman, and on the watch of Dr. David Kelly, then it could be disastrous for David Cameron. This, particularly as one of the three atomic bombs lost back at the time of the first Gulf War, was exploded by North Korea on 25th May 2009."

In 2006, North Korea exploded a plutonium based nuclear weapon, an unsuccessul test of  a  "found" nuke in poor repair, or something poorly designed.  America had predicted that they were at least five years from this capability, we always hear the same story, everyone is five years from having nuclear weapons.  On May 25th, 2009, North Korea exploded its second bomb, its first clearly identifiable nuclear weapon, a "Hiroshima sized" bomb, tiny by US standards.  What we didn't say is that the signature of this bomb had been seen before.

An identical nuclear weapon, manufactured at the same facility, same design, same impurities,  had been exploded in September 22, 1979, in a test in the Indian Ocean conducted jointly by Israel and South Africa.  When UN inspectors were asked to come to South Africa in 1990 to arrange to dismantle their nuclear weapons, ten bombs were admitted to having been built with one tested.  Today we claim six existed, none were tested and three never existed.  One of those three exploded in North Korea.  The mystery is, how did it get there?   Are American "broken arrow" nukes, recovered, sold and traded?  What "special country" might do this?

The cover story was that Pakistan through nuclear scientist,  Dr. A. Q. Khan, had supplied Korea with the required highly specialized centrifuges along with nuclear triggers and advanced missile technology.  Investigations have shown, however,  that the US had asked, or rather demanded, President Musharraf  "convince" Khan to confess to this and a seemingly endless series of nuclear proliferation violations from South Africa to Libya to Germany.  The deal was that Khan had to confess but would be immediately pardoned.  We have another mystery, who was the US covering for and why?  Who wanted it to seem like North Korea had a real nuclear program, who would profit by this?  What could be more comical than "Cardboard Lothario" Kim Jung-il, war mongering mastermind terrorizing the world from one of the most isolated and poverty stricken nations on earth.  I could carve a better "axis of evil" dictator out of a banana.

Who are the Cardboard Lotharios?  They are world leaders and conflict driven icons who simply don't seem to fit.  We knew where Hitler came from, we understood Napoleon, Mussolini, even George W. Bush.  With a world bereft of "prime movers," no major ideological struggles, no national races for dwindling resources, only multi-national corporations carving away the world, today's chaos is purely manufactured and the cardboard cutout bad-boys aren't even good actors.  Who invented Osama bin Laden, Bibi Netanyahu, Mullah Omar, Kim Jung-il, Hugo Chavez, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad?  Do we add Hameed Karzai to the list?  How to people like Libya's Muammar Gadaffi simply quit, get taken off the list and retire as though they had been to some sort of "terrorist mastermind rehab?"  Remember Muqtada al-Sadr, the Iraqi cleric whose Mahdi army was the caused mayhem in Iraq?  How can Gulbuddin Hekmatyar be number one on the world terror list and be asked by Americans to open negotiations with the Taliban at the same time?  Anyone smelling a rat?

A hypothesis, several forces, conspiratorial in nature, hiding in plain sight are "out there."  The players, oil, arms, banking, are the real powers in the world, easily "super-governments," well beyond any Illuminati-Freemason or Bilderberg conspiracy.  Their game, "they" meaning the real powers that control the governments, is managing continual regional conflicts where none, according to respected studies of the dynamics of global conflict and the real clash of "civilizations," should exist.  We live in a world where our wars, our news, the stories and myths we accept as gospel are little more than part of a play.  Shakespeare had said, "All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players" (William Shakespeare, As You Like it, Act II, Scene VII)  How can we get to this point?  Lets take a look at today's hotspot, Iran.

READ more at...

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2010/06/17/gordon-duff-the-cardboard-lotharios/





Then, is the basis of our hypothesis that some invisible criminal conspiracy, a genuine axis of evil, guides the world, a power above any nation, seemingly above the g-d's themselves?  A hundred years ago, when a nation misbehaved, they had a reason, right or wrong, it was a reason.  If they won the war, their reason was right.  Today, we no longer ask for reasons.  Why do we fight?  We fight to be safe.  Safe from whom?  Safe from the people we fight.  Any question beyond this limited scope is considered philosophical and elitist, even "liberal" or "peace-mongering."

The alternative is admitting that we are living in an Orwellian nightmare, one worse than any Orwell would have imagined.  As Orwell himself would point out, only a rare individual would recognize the senselessness and absurdity.  When we began believing, when we began to forget how to ask, "Why," we created a world whose moral soil was fertile for the depredations of the myth makers, the storytellers, those who exist off chaos, fear, starvation and in conditioning people who consider themselves righteous to accept the suffering and death of children without a thought, much less a tear.

We have arrived.

[thinktank]

Why don't they just stick a giant plunger over this oil leak, I'm sure there's enough materials to be had

[Cardinal]

 :sigh: @ Molly.......yes, the more I read, the more convinced I am that the puppet figureheads we see, are just a smokescreen to keep us focused on a false image, just like a magician's slight of hand trick. Blessings...

[WhiteWings]

Why don't they just stick a giant plunger over this oil leak, I'm sure there's enough materials to be had

It's most likely that the drilling pipe is broken way below the sea floor. Meaning that at unknow depth oil is gushing out and  eroding the proximity of the pipe. Additionally there is an unconfirmed leak in the sea floor 5 miles from the rig. Possibly/likely just the oil from the broken pipe that has taken an alternative rote. This means that anything reducing the flow will increase errosion speed. Leaving the well open is obviously no option but at best slows erosion down. IIRC a drill pip is 7 inch. An "eroded pipe" will grow and grow and grow. So capping will increase the oilspill.
The only way to stop the spill is to cement down the underground leak and the eroded holes. But the presurre for that is way to high. So that's why right now relief wells are being drilled. They are ready in August. Until then the spill will increase because of the erossion. With that lower pressure on broken pipe it can be hopfully plugged. The biggest fear right now is that erosion goes rampage and cuts a large uncontrole spill/well in the seafloor before the relief wells are finished. That would change the oil spill from a leaky tap to a wide open 24+ million liter/day

[Cardinal]

 :sigh: Received this in an email today.....@ Molly....click on Haliburton link....it will make your stomach turn.

http://www.examiner.com/x-2912-Seattle-Exopolitics-Examiner%7Ey2010m6d13-Evidence-BP-oil-spill-is-disaster-capitalism-by-criminal-elite-to-depopulate-and-stop-ET-disclosure

[thinktank]

Why don't they just stick a giant plunger over this oil leak, I'm sure there's enough materials to be had

It's most likely that the drilling pipe is broken way below the sea floor. Meaning that at unknow depth oil is gushing out and  eroding the proximity of the pipe. Additionally there is an unconfirmed leak in the sea floor 5 miles from the rig. Possibly/likely just the oil from the broken pipe that has taken an alternative rote. This means that anything reducing the flow will increase errosion speed. Leaving the well open is obviously no option but at best slows erosion down. IIRC a drill pip is 7 inch. An "eroded pipe" will grow and grow and grow. So capping will increase the oilspill.
The only way to stop the spill is to cement down the underground leak and the eroded holes. But the presurre for that is way to high. So that's why right now relief wells are being drilled. They are ready in August. Until then the spill will increase because of the erossion. With that lower pressure on broken pipe it can be hopfully plugged. The biggest fear right now is that erosion goes rampage and cuts a large uncontrole spill/well in the seafloor before the relief wells are finished. That would change the oil spill from a leaky tap to a wide open 24+ million liter/day

thanks for the info...

why don't they try and syphon some of the oil being leaked or at least make it a free for all, 'everyone get your buckets out' That's what they would do in the 30's, everyone working together as a unit. Thats one thing I miss about the old days, is when people often united to avert a crisis, but nowadays, there are so many regulations, people are to afraid to join in.

I hate all that oil being wasted, that oil has taken years to form and now it is gushing out and being part of the sea. :thumbdown: