The Problem of Evil

[micah7:9]

Micah: I think you may have missed my point when I asked you about Gabriel.

My point was that it does not say when Gabriel was created - neither does it say when Satan was created (as far as I know, we are not given details on the creation of the angels)

Gabriel is a man of God, which means as I reason and understand that he was, and is, and will be a man of God who speaks today to the saints. The adversary on the other had is the enemy of Light and Good and is a principality given power in the heavanlies to cause trouble with the saints of the Living God, the adversary is the opposing force of good.
Gabriel was created in Gen.2:7 for he is a man of God;  And should you need the when, of the adversary, I contend it began right here...  Gen 3:1  Now, the serpent, was more crafty than any living thing of the field which Yahweh God had made..."

Rom 5:20 Yet law came in by the way, that the offense should be increasing. Yet where sin increases, grace superexceeds,

[Lefein]

There are a lot of years between the Daniel and Luke.  Alot more than any man on this earth has lived post-flood anyway.

[Cardinal]

Perhaps, Lefein, God was speaking to you.

:cloud9: Absolutely and for this reason......EVERY word that comes to us (even if it's for others) proves us FIRST as steel is tempered and we must walk it out first. If we have not already gone thru the fire over the same thing, then "by whatever measure you mete out the same is measured out to you", has a particularly potent refining to it, as it burns any flesh that was "attached to" and contaminated that word. This is why the Word is as sharp as a two-edged sword because it cuts BOTH ways and is also why we are to judge not, lest we also be judged. Blessings....

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Dean... :hithere:

Once upon a time a sincere but naive new Christian woman was "given" words from God...from a Pastor in her church. Not knowing proper Christian decorum she said to the Pastor, "Let me get this straight...you are telling me that God is telling you things about me, behind my back, and you belive that?" I GOT to marry her 7 years ago and it has been a hoot and a holler ever since.

Is this my old friend DEAN from Christian Message Board?  :dunno:

willieH   :cloud9:

[micah7:9]

There are a lot of years between the Daniel and Luke.  Alot more than any man on this earth has lived post-flood anyway.

Yes that is true, but Gabriel a messenger, is that man of God today who is still bringing that same glad tidings (Like 1:19) to mankind today. As well as "Gabriel, make this one to understand the sight." (Dan. 8:16) This messenger Gabriel -man of God is the voice of those who have ears to hear what the Spirit is saying, to expalin what we recieve today.

[Beloved Servant]

I am now absolutely, thoroughly and fully confident that the prophecy is from the Lord, and it is a word for you WillieH.  I have my confirmation.

Thank you Father, now I have no more doubt that I heard you.

It certainly is convenient to be more accurate the second time around.

[Beloved Servant]

Do you believe that prophets are perfect?

Yes, the first time and every time.

[micah7:9]

Do you believe that prophets are perfect?

Yes, the first time and every time.

Yes absolutly, no doubts!

[jabcat]

Willi and Lefein, plz check your PMs.  James.

[shawn]

I find the world is just to barbaric to be, as nothing more than God training us. Surely he could have created a school of training that did not have such barbarity. Given Gods nature is love I don't see why he had to subject us to monstrous evils in order to develop character in us. In fact one can develop character by simply living with people that annoy one self, or to climb mount everest. I don't see why we have to have kids being butchered and familles mowed down by collisions, in order to grow in love and character, that's one reason I content we battle evil, that is not Gods will for the earth.

I agree it's problematic.
But then just read how Jesus met His end.
Then you can ask a similar question: Wasn't there another way with no/much less pain for Jesus?

It's somewhat problematic but not distressing to me.  We only look at things through finite eyes.  When our earthly situations are looked upon through an infinite lens, knowing the ending to our story then things start to come more clearly into focus.

To think we could truly know, and eventually hate evil like our Father through dealing with annoying individuals is a bit short sighted.  To know, and to hate evil we have to experience it's claws.  I believe this is the way it HAD to be in order for us to be brought to completion.  I believe the process God set in motion had a life of it's own within the confines of God's sovereignty.  It doesn't mean God failed (God can't fail) and it doesn't mean he created evil.  He set up life where we would know absence of him and then fullness of him.  Could God done it differently?  I think the answer is no.  In order for him to create beings in his likeness in all areas, those with which he could fellowship and have relationship with then this is the process that needed to take place. 

[micah7:9]

If he was, then he will certainly help me.  If he was speaking to WillieH however, then it is important that he listen I feel in my spirit the calm delight that comes with His peace.  I have no fear towards my Father.  I feel reasonably confident that it was definitely a word to WillieH, I myself have already prayed that I would practice what I preach.  I am not afraid, and I have no reason to fear.

I have just now taken time to read your prophecy to WillieH.
"This perhaps is a prophecy for you, I am moved to write it;" Lefein
As for me, the "perhaps" jumped out; Should the Lord give a prophecy to someone for someone
it wont be "perhaps is a prophecy for you." It either is or it is not.
That word was for your self for you testified of its accomplishment,
"I feel in my spirit the calm delight that comes with His peace." Lefein
The Lord knew you needed to vent your thoughts, you did, it is now time
for you to listen to them. I love you my friend. As the The Lord brings
Peace and Love Through Jesus.

[shawn]

If he was, then he will certainly help me.  If he was speaking to WillieH however, then it is important that he listen I feel in my spirit the calm delight that comes with His peace.  I have no fear towards my Father.  I feel reasonably confident that it was definitely a word to WillieH, I myself have already prayed that I would practice what I preach.  I am not afraid, and I have no reason to fear.

I have just now taken time to read your prophecy to WillieH.
"This perhaps is a prophecy for you, I am moved to write it;" Lefein
As for me, the "perhaps" jumped out; Should the Lord give a prophecy to someone for someone
it wont be "perhaps is a prophecy for you." It either is or it is not.
That word was for your self for you testified of its accomplishment,
"I feel in my spirit the calm delight that comes with His peace." Lefein
The Lord knew you needed to vent your thoughts, you did, it is now time
for you to listen to them. I love you my friend. As the The Lord brings
Peace and Love Through Jesus.

I am not mentioning this to one particular person but to the community as a whole.  I know that when I am disturbed by another individual something is wrong within me.  There is a part of myself that needs to be put to the flame and burned out.  Pride, vanity, self righteousness and insecurity are at the base of offense taken.  When I take offense (and I do) I now know I need to look inward rather than point fingers.  I need to remove the plank from my own eye so I can clearly see the speck in my brothers.

Lord, help ME not take offense.  Remove from me all that doesn't please you.  Remove the vanity, the pride, self righteousness and insecurities within myself so that I am a vessel of love rather than dissention.  Help me to be a vessel of peace and not a worker of inequity.

In Jesus Name...Amen.

[micah7:9]

"—I—Yahweh, who doeth all these." Isa. 45:7
Once we yeild and allow the Holy Spirit to have us to "know" that evil, "bad" râ‛a‛ A primitive root; properly to spoil (literally by breaking to pieces)
Then He will begin to mold us into vessels that are unmared made to honor and love.
I have a plate on the front of my car it reads "Psalm 90:3" that verse of scripture is Thou turnest man unto a bruised thing, And sayest, Turn back, ye sons of men.
Once we are allowed to see, that it is the Lord God who does this work, we will find a rest.

[Cardinal]

"—I—Yahweh, who doeth all these." Isa. 45:7
Once we yeild and allow the Holy Spirit to have us to "know" that evil, "bad" râ‛a‛ A primitive root; properly to spoil (literally by breaking to pieces)
Then He will begin to mold us into vessels that are unmared made to honor and love.
I have a plate on the front of my car it reads "Psalm 90:3" that verse of scripture is Thou turnest man unto a bruised thing, And sayest, Turn back, ye sons of men.
Once we are allowed to see, that it is the Lord God who does this work, we will find a rest.

:cloud9: :thumbsup:

[jabcat]

"—I—Yahweh, who doeth all these." Isa. 45:7
Once we yeild and allow the Holy Spirit to have us to "know" that evil, "bad" râ‛a‛ A primitive root; properly to spoil (literally by breaking to pieces)
Then He will begin to mold us into vessels that are unmared made to honor and love.
I have a plate on the front of my car it reads "Psalm 90:3" that verse of scripture is Thou turnest man unto a bruised thing, And sayest, Turn back, ye sons of men.
Once we are allowed to see, that it is the Lord God who does this work, we will find a rest.

:cloud9: :thumbsup:

:2thumbs:

[shawn]

Romans 14

1 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person's faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

[thinktank]

Do you believe that prophets are perfect?

Yes, the first time and every time.

I meant their vessel. God uses weak and broken vessels to get his message through. Sometimes those vessels are not what the world esteems as godly, for God uses the weak and the foolish to confound the wise. It is not up to our carnal reasoning to decide who or who is not a prophet, but it is up to the lord. If we think ourselves know better than the lord, then we will not grow as christians, but even be a hinderance to the work of the lord.

[micah7:9]

Do you believe that prophets are perfect?

Yes, the first time and every time.

I meant their vessel. God uses weak and broken vessels to get his message through. Sometimes those vessels are not what the world esteems as godly, for God uses the weak and the foolish to confound the wise. It is not up to our carnal reasoning to decide who or who is not a prophet, but it is up to the lord. If we think ourselves know better than the lord, then we will not grow as christians, but even be a hinderance to the work of the lord.

I am certain that Beloved Servant meant by no means that the propehts themselves, as men of God were perfect, but that the "word given" by the prophet was perfect. Should I be in error, correct me my friend.

[Lefein]

Jeremiah 20:7-10 (Jeremiah, a Prophet)

Matthew 11: 2-3 (John the Baptist, a Prophet)

[WhiteWings]

"—I—Yahweh, who doeth all these." Isa. 45:7
Once we yeild and allow the Holy Spirit to have us to "know" that evil, "bad" râ‛a‛ A primitive root; properly to spoil (literally by breaking to pieces)

Make me think of:
^EBRPs 2
9 Thou shalt shepherd them with a sceptre of iron,––as a potter's vessel, shalt thou dash them in pieces.

[thinktank]

Jeremiah 14:14   

Then the Lord said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.


I think there is a clear difference between those who do not do Gods will and those who do not.

Those who don't do Gods will cannot be thought of as doing Gods will, for God did not send them.

So with this i mind, when God works all things, it must mean that even though people are doing things which he did not command, he will use this evil and turn it into good, for he is the wise master to work all things for good.

So whatever you belive, whether God is the author of evil or not, good will prevail.

[micah7:9]

Jeremiah 20:7-10 (Jeremiah, a Prophet)

Matthew 11: 2-3 (John the Baptist, a Prophet)

Are giving an example for something? If so I fail to see it.
Jeremiah spoke the words of the Lord, if the Lord chose not to do what He said, that does not make the prophet in error.
And should John ask, are you He who is coming, makes him human and not given the understanding, yet.

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Tank...  :happygrin:

Jeremiah 14:14   

Then the Lord said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.

I think there is a clear difference between those who do not do Gods will and those who do not.

GOD is working ALL THINGS according to HIS WILL, and "ALL THINGS" does not disinclude "ANY THING", does itTank?  -- Eph 1:11 -- when will the Scriptures be believed by the people? 

Those who don't do Gods will cannot be thought of as doing Gods will, for God did not send them.

This is NOT what the quoted Scripture says.  It SAYS that GOD didnt COMMAND them, SEND them... neither did He SPEAK to them...

IT DOES NOT SAY -----   that HIS abstinance from SPEAKING, SENDING and COMMANDING these, is NOT "His WILL" being done by them...  :dontknow: 
The WILL of GOD is ALWAYS done... for HE is working ALL THINGS... according TO IT.  That is something that IS WRITTEN...

JESUS did and spoke NOTHING of Himself... that He did and spoke NOTHING of His own heart, ...does not mean that HIS heart was not in harmony or that HIS heart held ANY disagreement with whatever was DONE and SAID by Him.  :dontknow: 

CHRIST was not therefore a "PUPPET nor a ROBOT"... He was IN AGREEMENT... with what He SAID and DID... even though what He SAID and DID, did not originate from Him --- SELF.

Until you (or ANY of US) are made BY HIM, into this VERY SAME IMAGE...

So with this i mind, when God works all things, it must mean that even though people are doing things which he did not command, he will use this evil and turn it into good, for he is the wise master to work all things for good.

NOW you're talkin'! :nod: ...If GOD is USING EVIL for GOOD, then He is actively (in USING it) involved with it. within the manifestation of His "WILL"...  Can you not, or maybe a better way of saying...

The maker does not REACT to the "dirt", or plan around the doings of DIRT... the "dirt" REACTS to its MAKER and the doings of HIM.  :nod:

So whatever you belive, whether God is the author of evil or not, good will prevail.

Isaiah 45:7 --- The WORD PLAINLY says He created EVIL... [/i]...  :dontknow:

The Scripture PLAINLY says the GOD sends evil --  here are a few of MANY which note this -- Job 42:11 -- Jer 4:6 -- and the quoted Scripture PLAINLY says that He Created EVIL -- Isaiah 45:7 -- and The Scriptures PLAINLY note Him working ALL THINGS -- Eph 1:11 -- and is Creator of ALL THINGS -- John 1:3 -- Col 1:16 --

willieH  :cloud9:

[thinktank]

Maybe there is something to what you are saying, but I take this simple idea.


Gods will = To do good, to give life, to bless, for his thoughts towards us are good

Our will= good or evil

If we do evil then God rewards us with evil. the law of cause and effect, we reap what we sow. If we do good we will reap good. But here we see that God is now impersonal, but merely a law of God that he has set up. But God personal is allways good towards us.

I think that the tree of knowledge of good and evil, was there to teach mankind when they were ready, but Adam and Eve ate it out of disobedience. Perhaps the original plan was for them to eat it at a later date, so that they learn and overcome evil.

With this is mind, when God created evil, he created it to bring wisdom and understanding that such evil is against his nature and his ways.

The fact that death will be destroyed ,shows that evil is not something of God. For God is eternity
death and evil therefore must be a temporary thing, that God permits for this time of darkness, in this evil world where God is not completely in control.

For God to be completely in control in this world is negating the point of this world. This world is here because God is not completely in control, because we do things out of our own will, something that you admit, that man does have a will outside of God. If God were completely in control, this world would not exist and man would not have a will outside of God.

If mans will is outside of God it means he can do anyhting that God does not permit. A man can swear at a person or beat them up, or perhaps kill them. All these choices are there which are outside the will of God, whichever choice the man makes it is not Gods will. However if  aman does good to a person, he can pray fo rthem, he can buy them groceries, he can wish them a good day, these things are inside the will of God. This is what Christ did, he was inside the will of God but yet was not a robot. Being inside the will of god is not merely one choice, but rather many choices. Christ had freedom to do things inside the fathers will, he did not have to follow a divine script and when opportunity arised he followed the fathers will to fullfill scripture.


Isaiah 45:7 --- Again, when will you BELIEVE what is written in the WORD?  The WORD PLAINLY says He created EVIL... If you do not BELIEVE this, then you DOUBT the WORD...  :dontknow:
willie

I doubt certain scriptures as I reason to their true meaning. I could throw you another scripture and ask you the same question. I am after the true revelation of God and this takes time. Taking the word at face value is often misunderstood, as many christians often do this and live a very limited lifestyle i.e unless its in the word I don't believe it, yet some of these christians show their hypocrosy, by using a computer and web camera to show case their arguments.


Until you (or ANY of US) are made BY HIM, into this VERY SAME IMAGE... (VIA your own ADMISSION, of Doing and Saying NOTHING of yourself)... then you (or ANY of US) in whatever degree, remain obstinate toward YHVH, and are not aligned with His COMMANDS of you.  And are NOT like CHRIST, because of this discrepancy, ...End of story.

So being in disagreement with the will of YHVH is not his will, something I already said many times.
Gods will is ALL of us to follow him and in time, all will follow him, as they shed their own evils and pick up the heart and will of God. You may notice that in todays world even unbelivers are starting to behave more like Christ, for his spirit is being poured out on all flesh and so we have unbelivers doing charity work for the good of others. Go back to Roman times and such charity was non existent, the charity they did back then was to offer the local priest their kid to burn at the altar.

Many times we confuse the will of God and think it must be super holy and only the apostles or pastors are in congruent with it, when in fact a simple act of kindness is the will of God, if only more would belive this with childlike faith and belive that helping an old granny across the road , is the will of God, unbelivers every day are doing the will of God.

[Beloved Servant]

Do you believe that prophets are perfect?

Yes, the first time and every time.

I meant their vessel. God uses weak and broken vessels to get his message through. Sometimes those vessels are not what the world esteems as godly, for God uses the weak and the foolish to confound the wise. It is not up to our carnal reasoning to decide who or who is not a prophet, but it is up to the lord. If we think ourselves know better than the lord, then we will not grow as christians, but even be a hinderance to the work of the lord.

I am certain that Beloved Servant meant by no means that the propehts themselves, as men of God were perfect, but that the "word given" by the prophet was perfect. Should I be in error, correct me my friend.

I meant their Word.
That was the topic of discussion; nothing more, nothing less.

Thanks Micah.