The Problem of Evil

[Lefein]

If he was, then he will certainly help me.  If he was speaking to WillieH however, then it is important that he listen I feel in my spirit the calm delight that comes with His peace.  I have no fear towards my Father.  I feel reasonably confident that it was definitely a word to WillieH, I myself have already prayed that I would practice what I preach.  I am not afraid, and I have no reason to fear.

[Beloved Servant]

If he was, then he will certainly help me.  If he was speaking to WillieH however, then it is important that he listen I feel in my spirit the calm delight that comes with His peace.  I have no fear towards my Father.  I feel reasonably confident that it was definitely a word to WillieH, I myself have already prayed that I would practice what I preach.  I am not afraid, and I have no reason to fear.

Yes, the prophets of God usually are "reasonably confident."

[Lefein]

I am not going to defend my choice of words.  You were not given the word, I have nothing to say to you.

[Cardinal]

 :dontknow: I'm curious Lefein.....did you bring this word from the Lord to your brother privately first before bringing it to the body?

[Lefein]

I did as I felt moved to do  :dontknow:  That is all I know.  As it stands, I did not, I did not feel moved to do so.  From my understanding - he has had plenty of private word given.  Unless I've received false information.

But if you are looking for confirmation of the word's validity - see his post just above your own.

[Lefein]

And actually yes, I have talked to him privately before concerning his behaviour.  (This just came back to my remembrance) There was a whole thread on it in private under the moderation of Jabcat.  I addressed many of the things offered in the word given through me.

[Beloved Servant]

From my understanding - he has had plenty of private word given.  Unless I've received false information.

Perhaps these things should stay private.

[Lefein]

I'll not disobey where I feel certain that I am moved.  I would be a fool to disobey the nudging of God.

[Beloved Servant]

And actually yes, I have talked to him privately before concerning his behaviour.  (This just came back to my remembrance) There was a whole thread on it in private under the moderation of Jabcat.  I addressed many of the things offered in the word given through me.

Ditto.
Perhaps these things should stay private.

[Lefein]

If the Lord wanted it private, he would have moved me to make it so.  I did not feel that he did.  I won't mess it up where I feel lead - as far as I can help it being mortal.

[Beloved Servant]

I'll not disobey where I feel certain that I am moved.  I would be a fool to disobey the nudging of God.

I thought you are only "reasonably confident?"

[Lefein]

As I said, I won't defend my choice of words, especially over an issue of semantics.

[micah7:9]

When was Gabriel created?

Yes. Isa. 45:7

[Lefein]

I wasn't using Isaiah 45:7 (which you said I can't use) as the basis for asking "When was Gabriel (the being) created"?

I was thinking more along these lines.

Daniel 8:16  And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.

Luke 1:19  And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.

[willieH]

PART ONE:

WillieH, When you become the only begotten son of God, then you can start telling me what is truth and myth.  When you have gained all that superior wisdom over the rest of God's beloved children, his saints - his warriors who have fought the foe and his entourage, and proven wrong all those who have cast out devils before you and I were ever born then you can call them myths of Christianity.  When you have sat on the mountain in the wilderness and looked on as Jesus our Lord contested with the very Satan himself, when you have stood on the roof of the temple as the Devil tried to have our Lord cast himself down to prove his sonship, then you can tell me he is not a being.  When you have shaken out the fullness of God's truth, and put it under your feet and have the authority to call yourself the Lord of the Word, and all of its truths and interpretations, then you can start implying that you, and you alone have the right knowledge of the The Letter to which you so fervently bow down.

:Yeahright:  Whatever Lefein... I can retort the very same things to you...  :thumbdown:

Has it not become obvious to you yet, that you and I shall not yield to the other?  And that you stand with the MANY (believing "stan" er, "satan" as a being) and I with the FEW (believing "satan" an "IT/principality" not a "he/being"?

You say that Satan as a being is a myth - to this you have made a strange interpretation of the scriptures you say you rely solely upon; voiding it of the plain, common reading - replacing it with your own esoteric idea.  A tradition of man that you have made with your own two hands, and set up as an idol before the Lord your God; an abomination in his sanctuary, you have defiled his temple, the Temple of the Holy Spirit your heart with bitter incense, and praise with lips.

My position is as easily proveable using the Scriptures as is yours... What makes NO REASONABLE sense, is that GOD placed an INVISIBLE, OMNIPRESENT, WAY-POWERFUL being upon the earth to harass finites into submitting to his INVISIBLE, SILENT, and EVIL presence, thereby making the precious ones which GOD miraculously brings upon the earth, into SINNERS which shall DIE...

I see this as a PERFECT and LIVING display which shall stand FOREVER, of the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL which was KNOWN in the heart of YHVH God... and PERFECTLY displays which of the TWO aspects of LIVING (good/evil) is conducsive to LIVING of LIFE...

That GOOD (the LIFE of CHRIST) was the enaction of the WILL of YHVH without a hint of deviation from it, and EVIL the enaction of MEN which are EMERGENT of YHVH, which have ALL SINNED... is quite proof enough of the COMMAND fulfilled (in CHRIST) and the ADVERSITY to it... also FULFILLED... IN US... not some mythical "god" that you not only "believe in" but promote to others.  :thumbdown:

This perhaps is a prophecy for you, I am moved to write it;

You incrimnate yourself and who you are:

Some "prophecy"... :rolleye:  TRUE prophecy -- which is directed from above, ...does not utter the word "PERHAPS"... :mnah:

Yeah... YOU are moved by YOU to write it... and the resultant INSECURITY and UNINSPIRED wording is present IN IT.  :sigh: 

So, once again, ...here you go again with your PERSONAL condescensions (you have mocked me so many times, even within this very post, and it continues below) which do NOT come from above, rather from the frustrated obstinance within YOU:

You mock your brothers, you mock your fellow Christians, you call them the builders of myth, you degrade their worship, you put them beneath you with your words, your attitude, you forget that they are your brothers, you forget first and foremost that they too are the sons and daughters of the Living God -- you will cease mocking them, or you will fall under your own heavy mantle of your own man-made religion; a religion of self-righteous judgements passed on to your brethren who have not yet come to the knowledge of truths you may, or may not have received.

I DO NOT "mock" them any more than CHRIST "mocked" the "CHOSEN PEOPLE", with such words as -- VIPERS, WHITED SEPULCHRES, HYPOCRITES... as HE addressed them within THEIR mispercieved UNBELIEF... which was percieved as correct by them... it is no surprise that YOU should react as did THEY...  :dontknow:

You insist, and emphasise the veil on others - you ignore your own.

You know so little about me, yet think to conclude me.  Please!

I have openly admitted on this forum EVEN RECENTLY, that upon becoming REVEALED to the TRUTH of the Salvation of ALL MEN, that in my continuing searching, found that I was VEILED in other areas as well... yet... as with the TRUTH of UR... I remained humble and open to new revelation in other areas that GOD might correct in me, as well -- and so He has... (unlike yourself)

And as far as "INSISTING" goes... What do you call this post?  Are you not INSISTING YOURSELF and "your beliefs" upon ME, Lefein?  ...Get a grip, bro...  :sigh:

You point out their veil, you do not point out their progress.

Sorry, you are welcome to your own observances, ...but as I see it, ...I do not observe belief in an EVIL "being" is "progress"...

You point to their blind eyes, you do not acknowledge their heart that sees the Father with eyes of faith as far as their loving eyes can carry their gaze up to Heaven.

Where did I note anyone as BLIND, Lefein?  I have stated my positions and often they are in opposition to you... Are you not saying to ME, that I am "BLIND", bro?  Find a mirror... if you can see into it, you shall behold the hypocritical position of this writing posed to me.

Behold - they have great faith, your brothers who you laugh at.

Let's face it Lefein... you are referring to YOURSELF... not others... many here are opposing your words, not just me.

I don't drag others into my conversation... as far as it goes, this is YOU and ME... Cardinal, Jabcat, White Wings, Beloved Servant, Paul Hazelwood, Pierac, Thinktank, Molly, CHB, and others have offered commentary in this thread, and none of them are trying to drag the rest of the crew into a convo that involves other than themselves... It is your insecurity that hounds you brother, not me.

And please do not seek to drag others, assembling them into a MOB that might assault "willieH" on YOUR BEHALF! :rolleye:   You are unable to deal with me by yourself, so you seek to bring others to "have your back", while conversing with me. :pitiful:

In truth, I actually really have brotherly LOVE for all that are here (including you)... and when I use emoticons, they are either intended for emphasis or as means of lightening the mood... I never mean them to be as you in your hardened heart, supposes me to use them... :pitiful:

They love God their Father even despite the untruth of Hell.  They are not the best of children, but they try their best to live out the word as God reveals it to them.  You sit on your heap of scrip and letter to laugh at them and call their faith the faith of myths.

I do not and HAVE NOT said that they do not LOVE God... nor have I implied it.  No more than your teachers at Bible College marked answers on your test wrong, due to their PERSONAL indignation of YOU... Get over yourself.

If I see a MYTH as being promoted, I have the RIGHT to object to it.  The sinner is LOVED by God (and me), not the SIN...  You have the right to disagree with what I say, and your objections do not matter to me... but know that I have the SAME RIGHT.  The biggest diff between us, is that you cant deal with me, as easily as I deal with you.

This will cease.  Thus saith the Lord.

Have you ever seen the movie "STRIPES"?  If you have you will recognize this comment:  "lighten up francis"  :laughing7:

ALL things will CEASE... both your words and mine... and all that will be LEFT and RIGHTLY SO... will be the WORD of YHVH...  Try listening to the song "the MESSAGE" by 4Him...  there is much INSIGHT in it... and it is my goal.

If you love your Father, you will end your scorn, and your laughter, and your mockery, and your constant pointing out of veils, blindness, and infirmity, weakness in your brothers whilst carrying yourself high as the knower of Truth.

More of the same... When CHRIST brought enlightenment, He was persecuted... so your persecutions are only a verification to me... that I am doing the right thing.

You have practiced mockery with me, so I accordingly call you a HYPOCRITE, in speaking this "perhaps prophecy"...

If you did indeed know the Father, the Truth - you'd act with greater humility.

Listen to your own "perhaps" words...  perhaps you will, perhaps you wont

You'd act with greater wisdom.

Again, listen to your own words...  perhaps you will, perhaps you wont

You'd express your views with less aggression -

For the 3rd time... listen to your own words... perhaps you will, perhaps you wont...

The Lord your God expects the practice of the fruits that you have learned in your years of study, and your harvest here has shown poor expression towards your brethren who are still in the outer court of the temple.  Your brothers, your sisters, your fellow sheep in the fold; As the Lord said;

"Feed my sheep"

I am doing just that... and there are many at this forum who shall acknowledge it...  :dontknow:

continued in next post...

willieH   :cloud9:

[willieH]

PART TWO:

The Good Shepherd is aware of weakness, and blindness, and veils - even your own.  Did the Lord God not say in the Word that He is strong in our weaknesses?  Is he not shining through, tearing down the veils, and giving sight to the blind?

Yes... to the humble... again... listen to your own words bro...

ALL "veils" do not come in the same moment, or in the same area of life.  I was 29 years old and an ATHIEST... now as 65, I can see the drawing of 3 years, and the work of 34 from there... you, amidst the arrogance of youth shall learn many lessons which cannot be UNVEILED except by standing upon the STONES of YEARS... give yourself time.

Who are you then to go against the Lord's work and point out in every brother you meet what the Lord is tearing down, and what the Lord is giving light upon?

I am not going against the Lord's work at all... I am going against YOU, and the MYTHS you promote.  That you percieve in your deceptions that what YOU believe is the truth... is not uncommon. 

Until recently you stood against UR and found that in humility, your stand which YOU BELIEVED to be TRUTH, was NOT TRUE at all!!!   ...Like I said... you need TIME and further PERSONAL research (not the swallowing of Bible college teachings)... 2 things I have done, that YOU have not.

I gained experiential knowledge that you went to school to learn... being amidst it and its DISGUSTING position, eventually led me OUT of it... The fallacies of UNBIBLICAL teachings of the harlot system such as ---  Hell -- the trinity -- the Rapture -- freewill -- the millenium -- "satan" as a being -- sinners prayers -- "decisions" for CHRIST -- Easter -- going to Heaven -- FALLEN ANGELS, and others ...have fallen from their RELIGIOUS PEDESTALS, to research and revelation...

Do you, blood bought son of God not know that what the Lord calls clean, you should not call unclean?  That what the Lord calls clean, you shall call clean?  Why then do you constantly call blind what the Lord has given sight?  Why do you call veiled what the Lord has already revealed?

Where have I "called anyone UNCLEAN" Lefein... you appeal to LIES in your "perhaps prophecy" which only further reveals where that "perhaps prophecy" actually originates from... that being YOUR OWN HEART... not from God.

Why in your rebellion do you declare upon your brothers the opposite of what the Lord has said of them?  Why callest thou Gideon a coward against the Lord thy God who hath said of him; 'Thou mighty man of valour!'?

Lighten up on the poetic approach...  Now you shall "thee, thy and thou" me, as if the use of these words are SPIRITUAL in any way... :rolleye:

Which actually is nothing but STRAWMAN clothing you dress your words with, that endeavors to defer the LIES contained in your "perhaps prophecy"...  I have NEVER and never shall, condemn ANY of the children of YHVH

Even YOU which has assaulted me on several occasions, has already recieved my forgiveness for those assaults, as does it come forth to you IN THIS MOMENT ----- I forgive you for this "perhaps prophecy" Lefein, for you KNOW NOT what you do...  :friendstu:  ...and KNOW that you and I shall forever be BROTHERS, once this enduring is past.  :grouppray:

Your fruit has been weighed, and it is found wanting.

:laughing7: ----- :Yeahright:  ...by YOU... not God.  You know nothing of my life's service and dedications... which, because I am far older than you, likely EXCEED your own... just on the matter of TIME lived upon this earth.

I have served God, probably in my guess of your youth, longer than YOU have been alive...  :cloud9:

Repent of this contempt for your family, this thing in you that you would even deny - a veiling to your own faults, for you are not sinless in this world, neither are you faultless, for you likewise are under Grace, My Grace, and you have not yet seen the mirror with the great clarity that my own Son beholds.  You see still through the glass darkly, and have not the authority to call myths what you do not know the full Truth concerning.

And, ...Again... listen to your own words...  :thumbsup:

I have the same RIGHT to call a thing a MYTH, that YOU think to have objection to, ...considering YOU have the RIGHT to say what you just said... within YOUR OWN INCOMPLETE, "seeing through the glass darkly" position, eh?  :wacko2:

I have already admitted that I have had MANY "veilings"... How many have YOU listed (other than UR?) Lefein?  :happygrin:

I haven't witnessed any admissions from you.   :dontknow:

Where is Satan your Adversary?  Going about like a roaring lion seeking who he may devour, the straggler in the flock as the Shepherd gathers his sheep into the fold.  Be wary lest you be caught within the jaws.

The ADVERSARY of ALL MEN, is the INCOMPLETE vision and inherent INABILITY to perfectly obey, that we ALL share, Lefein... for YHVH is yet to reveal Himself in us as ALL in ALL, considering our occupance of this finite realm we are admidst.

That I do not listen to YOU... is due to the length of time being amidst ADVERSITY and watching the MANY condemning the WORLD to HELL (which I am sure you HEARTILY did, didn't you?)... and which is a place you just RECENTLY emerged from... 

But here you are INSISTING upon dragging your CONDEMNATIONS with you, into the TENT... thinking that folks such as myself, shall submit to them and JOIN YOU in your VEILINGS... :mnah:

If you truly had wisdom, you would cease the ADVERSITY of CONDEMNATION for there is no PEACE in it... and as long as you perpertrate it... you are indeed, its slave...  :sigh:

Where is Satan your Adversary?  Satan who is Adversary, goes to and fro the Earth to drive men to sin, and his work is ceaseless for he has little time left to cause mischief in the world I have made.  Know this, I will put him in the abyss, and I will not be mocked.

Lighten up francis!  :laughing7:  Grandiose misconceptions of SELF... Taking the WORD (which is the GOSPEL of PEACE -- Rom 10:15) of YHVH (who is the GOD of PEACE -- Rom 15:33)... and using it as YOUR OWN PERSONAL weapon of THREATENING --- used according to YOURSELF and your self centered positions... as if YOU are the CHRIST... Please... get ahold of yourself, me bratha...  :icon_rr:

I will not be mocked, neither will the members of my body!  Offend not my little ones, it would be better for that person to tie a millstone around his neck and be thrown into the sea.  Even the sea shall give up her dead, and everyone will give an account for every idle word, every vain speech, and every worthless, self-adoring, ambitious word they have uttered.  Even you will give an account to me, for I am a righteous judge, and I will judge the world rightly!

Oh my... now YOU are the judge, eh?  I here all along, ...I thought JESUS CHRIST  was given all JUDGMENT! -- John 5:22 --  but, now it is LEFEIN, eh?  :thumbdown:  NOT!

Rearranging in your sloppy, selfish, and CONDEMNING paraphrasing the WORD of God -- setting it in an order to serve YOURSELF... and in doing so...

FAILING to follow CHRIST who did NOT take opportunity to CONDEMN for He was SENT NOT to CONDEMN -- John 3:17 -- John 8:11 -- you are found trying to employ the HOLY WORD for your own RELGIOUS and VENGENT agenda, ...in which you only mock yourself.  :sigh:

Do as I have commanded - Love each other, as I have loved you!  I am the Lord, and I do not mock.  I am the Lord, I give sight to the blind.  I am the Lord, I tore the veil of the temple!  I AM the TRUTH, the LIFE, and I ALONE am the WAY.

I alone am almighty, I alone am in all places, I alone am the Lord of the ages, and I alone am God.  I do not mock, I am LOVE.

When will you realize that GOD IS LOVE and PEACE, Lefein?  And get over your self oriented condemning agendas, and self centered focus and begin to promote LOVE and PEACE?

willieH   :cloud9:

[willieH]

And actually yes, I have talked to him privately before concerning his behaviour.  (This just came back to my remembrance) There was a whole thread on it in private under the moderation of Jabcat.  I addressed many of the things offered in the word given through me.

Let us clarify... the "private thread" was NOT a DISCUSSION of the "behavior of willieH"... so please be truthful.

In that thread, ...I talked to YOU concerning YOUR "BEHAVIOR" as well... :rolleye:   And as ususal we did not agree...  :dontknow:

This was a private discussion... which has nothing to do with this one.  So why bring it up?  :offtopic:

willieH   :cloud9:

[willieH]

I'll not disobey where I feel certain that I am moved.  I would be a fool to disobey the nudging of God.

GOD has hardly "nudged you"... you speak of and from the hardness of your own heart, not the LOVE of His...  :sigh:

willieH   :cloud9:

[Lefein]

I am now absolutely, thoroughly and fully confident that the prophecy is from the Lord, and it is a word for you WillieH.  I have my confirmation.

Thank you Father, now I have no more doubt that I heard you.

[micah7:9]

I wasn't using Isaiah 45:7 (which you said I can't use) as the basis for asking "When was Gabriel (the being) created"?

I was thinking more along these lines.

Daniel 8:16  And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.

Luke 1:19  And the angel answering said unto him, I am Gabriel, that stand in the presence of God; and am sent to speak unto thee, and to shew thee these glad tidings.

It just seems to me that you doubt more of the Word of God than you accept. Gabriel is a messenger that God uses to speak His word, Gabriel is part of Light, while the adversary is the evil. Should one believe that The Lord God is unable to use both good and bad, to bring forth Good, then that person is lacking the understanding of I AM.  Isa. 45:7 states that Jehovah created  Light and Evil. Knowing God is Good, we must use be positive with out understanding and not doubt. My  :2c:
Heb 3:12  Be taking heed, brethren, lest at any time, there shall be in any one of you, a wicked heart of unbelief, in revolting from a Living God.

[Dean]

Once upon a time a sincere but naive new Christian woman was "given" words from God...from a Pastor in her church. Not knowing proper Christian decorum she said to the Pastor, "Let me get this straight...you are telling me that God is telling you things about me, behind my back, and you belive that?" I GOT to marry her 7 years ago and it has been a hoot and a holler ever since.
 

[Lefein]

Micah: I think you may have missed my point when I asked you about Gabriel.

My point was that it does not say when Gabriel was created - neither does it say when Satan was created (as far as I know, we are not given details on the creation of the angels)

[thinktank]

Once upon a time a sincere but naive new Christian woman was "given" words from God...from a Pastor in her church. Not knowing proper Christian decorum she said to the Pastor, "Let me get this straight...you are telling me that God is telling you things about me, behind my back, and you belive that?" I GOT to marry her 7 years ago and it has been a hoot and a holler ever since.

:laughing7:  Unless its not a joke  :mshock:  you crafty......

[willieH]

The more you open your mouth, the more you identify WHO you are, and what is emergent OF YOU.  :sigh:  Easily confounded when the TRUTH is stated in comparison to your reports.

As you publicly confess your doubt:

I am now absolutely, thoroughly and fully confident that the prophecy is from the Lord, and it is a word for you WillieH.  I have my confirmation.

Thank you Father, now I have no more doubt that I heard you.

Your prophecy came from a father all right... but certainly not Father YHVH...  :sigh:

It indeed is an emergent from your own hardened heart which in its on-going hardness, ...FAILS to call me, my rightful position of a Son of the MOST HIGH, ...and REFUSES to call me brother,  and such is certainly NOT from YHVH, for GOD does not give forth "prophecy" based on SINNERS laying out CONFIRMATION guidelines, please...  :mnah:

And GOD instructs that we LOVE our brothers whom we can see... before our LOVE for Him can be truthfully accepted -- 1 John 4:20

You have been asked to take this type of thing to a PRIVATE scenario which YOU of course, blatanly REFUSED to do and made that REFUSAL, PUBLIC... and which is CONTRARY to the BIBLICAL instruction which deals with delivering the corrections of GOD to a brother percieved in a "fault"...  :thumbdown:

His WORD which is GIVEN from Him in prophetic manifestation IS PERMANENT when given, and certainly NOT according to YOU nor your proposed and DOUBT ridden, "confirmations"...   

Where do you see this as the method of "PROPHECY" when it is given in the WORD, Lefein?  The Truth is this is NOT the method... and there is no such example of it in the WORD.

Your confessed DOUBT... that YOU HELD, when you "heard" from GOD, is a confession that your "perhaps prophecy" was NOT ever from God...  :dontknow:

For it was stated in and WITH, DOUBT from YOU... and GOD never immerses His directives, in FAITHLESS Prophesies EVER --- which are immersed  IN DOUBT.  :thumbdown:

willieH   :cloud9:

[thinktank]

If he was, then he will certainly help me.  If he was speaking to WillieH however, then it is important that he listen I feel in my spirit the calm delight that comes with His peace.  I have no fear towards my Father.  I feel reasonably confident that it was definitely a word to WillieH, I myself have already prayed that I would practice what I preach.  I am not afraid, and I have no reason to fear.

Yes, the prophets of God usually are "reasonably confident."

Do you believe that prophets are perfect?