The Problem of Evil

[micah7:9]

Adam named the serpent.
Gen 2:19  And Jehovah God formeth from the ground every beast of the field, and every fowl of the heavens, and bringeth in unto the man, to see what he doth call it; and whatever the man calleth a living creature, that is its name.
Gen 3:1  And the serpent hath been subtile above every beast of the field which Jehovah God hath made

So yes, Adam named the serpent and the serpent was there.

And you say satan/serpent/lucifer whatever REBELLED. "When Satan [the Nachash] shows up in the garden, he has already rebelled.

When was that rebelling?

[thinktank]

I believe the beast here is talking about an animal. Because it refers to cattle in the same sentence. That a fallen angel or fallen cherubim entered a deal with the subtle snake. Perhaps the fallen angel is lucifer and the snake is the cherubim, because violence is filled in the midst of the cherubim, could be possesed by lucifer. But I am not sure about the realtionship between the cherubim and lucifer, whether they be the same being or different.

[Lefein]

My observation; certain persons seem to have the idea that a god who did not create wickedness, is a weak god.

hmmn...

[Molly]

Adam named the serpent.
Gen 2:19  And Jehovah God formeth from the ground every beast of the field, and every fowl of the heavens, and bringeth in unto the man, to see what he doth call it; and whatever the man calleth a living creature, that is its name.
Gen 3:1  And the serpent hath been subtile above every beast of the field which Jehovah God hath made

So yes, Adam named the serpent and the serpent was there.

And you say satan/serpent/lucifer whatever REBELLED. "When Satan [the Nachash] shows up in the garden, he has already rebelled.

When was that rebelling?

We know what a snake is, don't we?  And, a snake is a beast of the field, I'll grant you that.

But, how many snakes talk?  How many snakes are subtle and cunning and able to outwit man [or woman]?  How many snakes are able to tempt man?  How many snakes have a 'seed' that is fighting against the seed of Christ?

So we have to admit that this Being that we see in Gen 3 is not an actual snake, don't you think?  but more 'snake-like' according to its hiss, and its ability to enthrall and entrance, in the way it slithers and sneaks up on you before it strikes a death blow.

"serpent"

H5175
נחשׁ
nâchâsh
naw-khawsh'
From H5172; a snake (from its hiss): - serpent.



H5172
נחשׁ
nâchash
naw-khash'
A primitive root; properly to hiss, that is, whisper a (magic) spell; generally to prognosticate: -  X certainly, divine, enchanter, (use) X enchantment, learn by experience, X indeed, diligently observe.


I don't know specifically when he rebelled, but I know he did.  We see Michael and his angels fighting Satan and his angels in heaven.  Jesus tells us he saw Satan fall like lightning.

[micah7:9]

Adam named the serpent.
Gen 2:19  And Jehovah God formeth from the ground every beast of the field, and every fowl of the heavens, and bringeth in unto the man, to see what he doth call it; and whatever the man calleth a living creature, that is its name.
Gen 3:1  And the serpent hath been subtile above every beast of the field which Jehovah God hath made

So yes, Adam named the serpent and the serpent was there.

And you say satan/serpent/lucifer whatever REBELLED. "When Satan [the Nachash] shows up in the garden, he has already rebelled.

When was that rebelling?

We know what a snake is, don't we?  And, a snake is a beast of the field, I'll grant you that.

But, how many snakes talk?  How many snakes are subtle and cunning and able to outwit man [or woman]?  How many snakes are able to tempt man?  How many snakes have a 'seed' that is fighting against the seed of Christ?

So we have to admit that this Being that we see in Gen 3 is not an actual snake, don't you think?  but more 'snake-like' according to its hiss, and its ability to enthrall and entrance, in the way it slithers and sneaks up on you before it strikes a death blow.

"serpent"

H5175
נחשׁ
nâchâsh
naw-khawsh'
From H5172; a snake (from its hiss): - serpent.



H5172
נחשׁ
nâchash
naw-khash'
A primitive root; properly to hiss, that is, whisper a (magic) spell; generally to prognosticate: -  X certainly, divine, enchanter, (use) X enchantment, learn by experience, X indeed, diligently observe.


I don't know specifically when he rebelled, but I know he did.  We see Michael and his angels fighting Satan and his angels in heaven.  Jesus tells us he saw Satan fall like lightning.

[thinktank]

gen 3:1  And the serpent  hath been subtile above every beast of the field  which Jehovah God hath made

Intersting maybe 'above' means flying above these beasts subtily.

[Beloved Servant]

learn by experience

That is why he used the word: IF
Perhaps satan is just the reasoning/logical mind of man residing all along in his soul, birthing serpents, giants and dragons.

[Molly]

gen 3:1  And the serpent  hath been subtile above every beast of the field  which Jehovah God hath made

Intersting maybe 'above' means flying above these beasts subtily.

Interesting.

"above"

H4480
מנּי    מנּי    מן
min  minnı̂y  minnêy
min, min-nee', min-nay'
For H4482; properly a part of; hence (prepositionally), from or out of in many senses: - above, after, among, at, because of, by (reason of), from (among), in, X neither, X nor, (out) of, over, since, X then, through, X whether, with.


H4482
מן
mên
mane
From an unused rot meaning to apportion; a part; hence a musical chord (as parted into strings): - in [the same] (Psa. H68 : H23), stringed instrument (Psa. H150 : H4), whereby (Psa. H45 : H8 [defective plural]).


The Nachash is  playing the wrong notes lol.  Evil sounds a little off key, doesn't it?

[micah7:9]

 It was a serpent, not a snake. Enchanter, whisperer.  If you know he rebelled  ...when? I find no rebelling in Genesis one or two. So you are going to say the rebelling is in Revelation and thats when this lucifer(howling)satan rebelled and fell? Yes Jesus beheld  the adversary fall, Jesus had just sent his disciples out and they worked wonders, and Jesus beheld the adversarys power fall as fire from the heavenlies  to the disciples power He had given them.

[Lefein]

On what day was Gabriel created?

[Molly]

learn by experience

That is why he used the word: IF
Perhaps satan is just the reasoning/logical mind of man residing all along in his soul, birthing serpents, giants and dragons.

I hear what you're saying, but I personally reject that.  I think that man is able to have his strings played [or pulled] by the evil spirit that is the Nachash.  But, I don't see man and the Nachash as one and the same, although I respect that many do.  I see the Nachash as a spirit.

And, I see those of us with the Holy Spirit as in a spiritual war with him.

[Molly]

It was a serpent, not a snake. Enchanter, whisperer.  If you know he rebelled  ...when? I find no rebelling in Genesis one or two. So you are going to say the rebelling is in Revelation and thats when this lucifer(howling)satan rebelled and fell? Yes Jesus beheld  the adversary fall, Jesus had just sent his disciples out and they worked wonders, and Jesus beheld the adversarys power fall as fire from the heavenlies  to the disciples power He had given them.

12Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

13Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

18Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

19All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

--Eze 28



14 So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this,

   "Cursed are you above all livestock
   and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
   and you will eat dust
   all the days of your life.

--Gen 3

[micah7:9]

learn by experience

That is why he used the word: IF
Perhaps satan is just the reasoning/logical mind of man residing all along in his soul, birthing serpents, giants and dragons.

I hear what you're saying, but I personally reject that.  I think that man is able to have his strings played [or pulled] by the evil spirit that is the Nachash.  But, I don't see man and the Nachash as one and the same, although I respect that many do.  I see the Nachash as a spirit.

And, I see those of us with the Holy Spirit as in a spiritual war with him.

:thumbsup:

[micah7:9]

Ezk. 28 reads more like it could more like Adam being  discribed.

[thinktank]

On what day was Gabriel created?

I can't see any verses talk about the creation of angels. But yet the first born of every creature, he that made the worlds, must be the first creature, so sometime later he must have created angels.

Genesis says that all their host praised after the creation of the earth, but does not say when they were created. Perhaps before genesis 1.1 and after creating the worlds, he then rebelled in Genesis 1.2  :dontknow:

[micah7:9]

On what day was Gabriel created?

Gen 2:1  And the heavens and the earth are completed, and all their host;

[CHB]

Where he did learn this evil? Did he aquire ths knowlege from the devil and then use this as a tool for his His purposes. A bit like how a rightous man might steal and do evil in order to do good by feeding his familly. (assuming he took all other paths of course, otherwise he'd just be lazy) The book of proverbs say that if a man steals for bread do not hurt him.

:laughing7:  God learning from the devil? Boy, are we in trouble.

CHB

[thinktank]

Where he did learn this evil? Did he aquire ths knowlege from the devil and then use this as a tool for his His purposes. A bit like how a rightous man might steal and do evil in order to do good by feeding his familly. (assuming he took all other paths of course, otherwise he'd just be lazy) The book of proverbs say that if a man steals for bread do not hurt him.

:laughing7:  God learning from the devil? Boy, are we in trouble.

CHB

As in aquiring knowledge of evil from him, not as in learning his ways of doing things.

It depends on how one views God, is he static or is he ever growing and creating. I think the fact that the universe is constantly expanding is a small indicator that perhaps this is how God operates.

[Lefein]

My question concerning Gabriel was to prove a point, that just because we don't know certain exacts or even specifics from the Bible doesn't mean it isn't a happening, or a thing that has occurred.

[micah7:9]

My question concerning Gabriel was to prove a point, that just because we don't know certain exacts or even specifics from the Bible doesn't mean it isn't a happening, or a thing that has occurred.

What happening are you refering to?  It is my contention that should there have been a creating of the devil/satan/adversary as a being and a formidible foe then I really believe it would have been mentioned in the Book. And if some person named lucifer was the devil/satan/adversary then again should there not be some hint as to this originating happened; when, where, and how? We know, at least I believe I know that the enemy, the adversary in a spirit and the power that comes from this spirit is in total allowance with the  Father of spirits.(Heb, 12:9)
We know that Gabriel is a messenger and the message he brought was heard and recieved. Gabriel [means man of God] had a purpose.

[Molly]

We see the tree of the knowledge of good and evil put into the garden in Gen 2.

There is no mention of such a tree in Genesis 1.


29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.


--Gen 1


They are able to eat from every tree on the face of the earth.

That means these two special trees in Eden are not on 'the face of the earth.'

[Beloved Servant]

Yes, Molly, a very contagious spirit.

[CHB]

My observation; certain persons seem to have the idea that a god who did not create wickedness, is a weak god.

hmmn...

Actually here is what I said.
"Where did evil come from? Why do we sin? Why aren't we perfect? Did God make a mistake and can't fix things? Is he so blind and weak, or does he just ignore the whole situation? This is his world and his creation why doesn't he fix it if he can't stand sin, or had nothing to do with evil? Have you ask yourself these questions?

I was asking you these questions.  If God isn't in control of all that goes on in the world, why doesn't he stop it? If I see someone beating someone to death and just stand there and watch, what does that make me? If I have the power to stop the one doing the beating why don't I stop it? Am I too weak, just don't care, scared. blind, what?  Would you answer me this question please?

CHB

[Molly]

My observation; certain persons seem to have the idea that a god who did not create wickedness, is a weak god.

hmmn...

Actually here is what I said.
"Where did evil come from? Why do we sin? Why aren't we perfect? Did God make a mistake and can't fix things? Is he so blind and weak, or does he just ignore the whole situation? This is his world and his creation why doesn't he fix it if he can't stand sin, or had nothing to do with evil? Have you ask yourself these questions?

I was asking you these questions.  If God isn't in control of all that goes on in the world, why doesn't he stop it? If I see someone beating someone to death and just stand there and watch, what does that make me? If I have the power to stop the one doing the beating why don't I stop it? Am I too weak, just don't care, scared. blind, what?  Would you answer me this question please?

CHB

That will happen in the next age, CHB.  In the meantime, I'm confident that if you see someone beating someone else to death, you will do your best to stop it in this age.

[Paul Hazelwood]

We are so sure that when it comes to other verses that there is a mistranslation when it comes to the bibles we read, but this one issue it then certainly must be as we read.    Once you open the door to religion and theologian error then it ALL is suspect.


Isa 45:7 I form the light, and cut down darkness: I make peace, and cut down evil: I the LORD do all these [things].


Yes, the Lord sure does all those things.

Without any translation, the hebrew word is 'ra', which has definitions listed in WW's post #189.

I'm not talking about the hebrew word ra.