End times?

[Cardinal]

The problem is clearly our perception.
For example, as per Sister Cardinal's response I would say there is no more union of soul and spirit to be had. It's done. /quote]


:cloud9: If so, then why are we not doing the greater works, why is there still sin in the world, and why did Paul talk about the day dawning and getting brighter and brighter, growing in knowledge and understanding, and why did Paul say we were seeing thru a glass darkly?

All was done on the cross, but it must be APPROPRIATED in the pattern and the order the Spirit dictates. Blessings....  

[HartleyDamboiseII]

The day may come when ALL will see there is no more sin...

Now, and forever.. ever sense JC's Rezz

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: The wages of sin is death. Death has not been abolished yet, not thrown into the lake of fire yet. What He appropriated for us, must be appropriated BY us.

Additionally, faith is the substance of things HOPED for, not had already. If all is done, then we have nothing to have faith FOR. Blessings....

[reFORMer]

One of the things that kept the Soviet Union going after it should have had a natural death is assigning the value of things it got from the capitalist societies to its own provisions.  Every purchase in a (relatively) free enterprise is a vote for its value.  Millions of people judge value and price, buying what seems best for them, keeping prices within a certain relative scale of values.  Where the economy is centrally controlled the demand for things and their relative value are unknown.  They were always subject to shortages and they ordered too many of a thing.  Not knowing how many would be used resulted in wasteful surpluses.  These are monitored and driven by the market itself in capitalists economies.  To keep the natural processes of the marketplace from asserting themselves required another civil authority to prevent it.  This also tends to place much of the economy, its goods and services (capital) into black markets.

This illustrates a big problem with those who would do away with God's law word in the Holy Scriptures (antinomian.)  They don't know how bad are the consequences of various sins.  The changes in society make changeable and unknown what relative value should be given to this or that sin, in this or that circumstance, committed by this or that man.  They don't have the value of things to refer to, including their own worth, or even that of God.  This rejection of God's law to judge us always produces the formulation of a new, and usually sliding, system of values.  Men become a law unto themselves.  They may call themselves "sin-free;" but, in fact, the evidence usually shows they're really promoting "free-sin."

[Seth]

:cloud9: The wages of sin is death. Death has not been abolished yet, not thrown into the lake of fire yet. What He appropriated for us, must be appropriated BY us.

Additionally, faith is the substance of things HOPED for, not had already. If all is done, then we have nothing to have faith FOR. Blessings....

:thumbsup: :HeartThrob:

[Barry DuPont]

{image your whole post here but let's save some bandwidth}
Hey Cardinal,
1) We all have preconceived ideas and agendas! That makes this (our) acceptance and realization part of the journey!

2) That presumes that the covenant was made with us.
There we go again leaving out audience relevance. :)
Does it absolutely have to be our own journey that we are reading about??? Does it really have to be? Really?
Or is that just another presumption that we feel must be the truth because those are the doctrines that framed and gave structure to our personal revelations?

In your view:
Is there a point where humanity is preserved as humanity and meats all your expectations for fulfillment and yet is allowed to continue its journey?

My concern is that we have made it all about us.  
A few personal thoughts Sis.

Blessings Barry

[Barry DuPont]

:cloud9: The wages of sin is death. Death has not been abolished yet, not thrown into the lake of fire yet. What He appropriated for us, must be appropriated BY us.

Additionally, faith is the substance of things HOPED for, not had already. If all is done, then we have nothing to have faith FOR. Blessings....

When you get to heaven are perfected and completed, or when your soul and spirit are perfectly one will you then stop trusting God and have nothing left to hope for or have faith in?

Blessing Barry

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Where is heaven Barry? When Jesus was speaking to Nicodemus, essentially He was saying I'm standing right here but I'm in heaven speaking to you. Paul said our conversation is from heaven. You can't speak from a place you've never been before, can you?

And no, the union of the soul and spirit IS, the resurrection. He said, I AM THE LIFE AND THE RESURRECTION. We are pressing in as Paul said (which means there's something YET TO DO) for the mark of the high calling in Christ Jesus. The high calling is becoming one with the High Priest of OUR confession WHO GOES BEHIND THE VEIL, ie. sees God the Father WITHOUT literally dying to do so.

There is a resurrection that can take place while STILL in the body, which Paul also talked about when he said that immortality (Christ in you) was going to swallow up mortality (you). In other words, the glory that is in us, is going to be revealed/unveiled as it consumes our mortality.

At that point, you have the completed perfected faith of Christ, whose faith faileth not. When He comes will He find faith in YOUR "earth"? This is the faith that will move that mountain of sinful flesh (of the others) that ALL of creation might be set free. Some are set to declare (means to show openly, unveiled) His generation in their earth. Blessings...

[Molly]

 :HeartThrob:

[HartleyDamboiseII]

Sinfree is a reality for some.

Some day All Will be here.

Lee

[Cardinal]

{image your whole post here but let's save some bandwidth}
Hey Cardinal,
1) We all have preconceived ideas and agendas! That makes this (our) acceptance and realization part of the journey!

2) That presumes that the covenant was made with us.
There we go again leaving out audience relevance. :)
Does it absolutely have to be our own journey that we are reading about??? Does it really have to be? Really?
Or is that just another presumption that we feel must be the truth because those are the doctrines that framed and gave structure to our personal revelations?

In your view:
Is there a point where humanity is preserved as humanity and meats all your expectations for fulfillment and yet is allowed to continue its journey?

My concern is that we have made it all about us.  
A few personal thoughts Sis.

Blessings Barry

:cloud9: The whole book is Spirit, written to our spirits, to the generation that is to become one with the Spirit. How's this for audience relevance? These were Jewish "converts" to the new covenant Paul was speaking to, ie. the book to the HEBREWS.

Hebrews 8:10  For this is the covenant that I will make with the HOUSE OF ISRAEL after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

The bolded above, equals COVENANT, just as one was made at Sinai, which was a WEDDING CONTRACT, ie. God joining Himself to His bride = soul and Spirit coming into UNION. He is both marriage minded and PROCREATION minded, as He wants to produce a SON with us all.

BUT; are you as a gentile grafted in? Are you a partaker of the new covenant? Then WHO is the house of Israel NOW to the Lord, spiritually speaking? SALVATION IS OF THE JEWS, ie. it both came through His covenant to the natural JEW FIRST, then the gentile, AND it is of the spiritual "Jews" NOW.

That there is neither Jew nor Gentile anymore does not mean there's NEITHER as if they don't exist, it means they're MADE ONE, AS A SPIRITUAL CIRCUMCISION, IN HIM, WHO IS, THE PROMISED LAND, OUR REST. Who was the promised land for, Jew or gentile?

This is why it says those that are circumcised of heart, ARE THE CIRCUMCISION, because we are spiritual "Jews" now, seeking to enter fully into His rest, our promised land of milk and honey, seeking to dwell in spiritual Israel, that has a spiritual NEW JERUSALEM with a NEW TEMPLE that has both the Father and the Son in residence.

The book is speaking to us, but since our life/identity is HID in Christ, we have to press in to gain our TRUE identity. Blessings....  

[Barry DuPont]

My summation:
There really is no point in attempting to contradict personal interpretations and subjectivity with biblical evidence.

We know good and well that they were expecting the end of the age, the judgment and the resurrection of the dead in their time. We just cannot live with that. We need to continue the battle!

We need our sin.
We need our sanctification.
We need our religion.
We need our salvation.
We need our faith. [Doesn't mean that it is the faith of Christ Jesus]

In striving to lose ourselves all our lives and find our true self we make a religion out of losing ourselves and finding our true self. We can't ever really find ourselves because losing ourselves has become our new self. Can't afford to acctually reach the goal or see the arrival for if we did we would lose our need to lose ourself.   

A fulfilled revelation of God's love without condition is not enough for us. "God don't take my sin away, I got more work to do"

"The end could not have come look at all the sin around us!"

Behold the Lamb of God who take away the sin of the world.

No Lord you couldn't have done that! I would have to give up my losing my self self. I can't give up that self because then I won't be able to fine my true self.

The only true self is the one that knows it is loved without condition. That is the true self. Everything else is a pile of doctrines.
We will never get doctrines behind us if fulfillment has not arrived.


We are stuck in circular reasoning to satisfy need to remain thirsty. We made a religion out of being thirsty and then call that being spiritual minded. Yep got to keep putting off that flesh for sure!

The evidence for a first century fulfillment of all things is most surely there in the scriptures.

God loves you right now without any condition what so ever. Accept it and be your true self.

All that the law and sin and death were about is to show us that the answer is not in our own insecurity in our relationship. That insecurity is not our true self.

Just some personal opinions.
Blessings Barry   

[Seth]

All that the law and sin and death were about is to show us that the answer is not in our own insecurity in our relationship. That insecurity is not our true self.

The law shows us what we lacked. Jesus appeared to fill us up.  :HeartThrob:

[Barry DuPont]

All that the law and sin and death were about is to show us that the answer is not in our own insecurity in our relationship. That insecurity is not our true self.

The law shows us what we lacked. Jesus appeared to fill us up.  :HeartThrob:

Hey Seth.

What did Adam lack before he eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?
A hint, not a resurrected body of the sorts that so many want to get before they agree to see fulfillment. 

Hbr 9:15   And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. 

Many blessings

Barry

[Seth]

All that the law and sin and death were about is to show us that the answer is not in our own insecurity in our relationship. That insecurity is not our true self.

The law shows us what we lacked. Jesus appeared to fill us up.  :HeartThrob:

Hey Seth.

What did Adam lack before he eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?
A hint, not a resurrected body of the sorts that so many want to get before they agree to see fulfillment. 

A resurrected body was not what I was referring to.

Matt 5:6
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.

[reFORMer]

Sinfree is a reality for some.

Some day All Will be here.

Lee

Those who have entered into physical immortality or deathless embodiment are potentially free from doing acts of sin.  "Sin reigns in death." (Rm 5:21)  Without the death state, having incorruptible life, Sin can no longer reign.  As long as we have an Adamic body of flesh and blood we are usually mortal (though some exceptions may exist.)  This means we have sin, even if we do not do sin.  "If we should be saying that we have no sin we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us." (1 Jn 1:8, CLT)  If we are disposed to the Spirit we will not commit sin even if it is present in our members.

Even if would be acceptable to consider those things you assert happened in the first century actually happened, until they happen in the attributes of our own being, spirit, soul and body, they are yet future to us.  Yes, Jesus physically died, descended into hell, raised from the dead on the third day, according to the Scriptures, showed Himself to those He had chosen and to 500 men plus women and children, about 1000 to 1500 people, which were His disciples, and He ascended into the right hand of God.

Now, what has happened to us?  He left for us an open door into God.  What experience of the Divine nature have we entered into?  This physical body must be changed and placed into full legally inheriting born of God, "Sonship" status.  That means everything in the physical cosmos becomes subject to such a being.  This is the promise to Abraham and his seed, "...to be enjoyer of the allotment of the world (Grk:  cosmos.)"  There is more that can be said, but this is enough truth to be accepted for now.   

Luke 20:34-38 (CLT)...
34 And, answering, Jesus said to them, "The sons of this eon are marrying and are taking out in marriage.
35 Yet those deemed worthy to happen upon that eon and the resurrection from among the dead are neither marrying nor taking out in marriage.
36 For neither can they still be dying, for they are equal to messengers (AV:  'angels,') and are the sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
37 "Now that the dead are rousing, even Moses divulges at the thorn bush, as he is terming the Lord the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob.
38 Now God is He, not of the dead, but of the living, for all, to Him, are living."

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: :thumbsup:

[Molly]

wow.  "sons of the resurrection"!!!


Ephesians 3:21
Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

[HartleyDamboiseII]

Reformer: I know your a mod, and I "know" that you know lots more than  I, but we do have Lots of differant thinkings,,

you said, "Post 190 as long as we have an Adamic body of flesh & blood"

Try this thought , What If it was all changed at JC's Rezz day?? and the Adamic body & Nature is NO MORE...???  (WHAT IF )

Just think about that angle. Because I believe that all that Adam brought into the world called death ended at that day above. ALL was dragged into life then/union with God the Father and all Adam did God undid in one body of Life and Love, His Anointed.  What IF???

Ok, I do agree that there is alot of things we as being, some with less light/love are progressing to a better or higher level of understanding, as beings, we don't know we have been made alive, so most live a life of what "was" called sin,

But how many things of the old school things do not apply to His children today and how much does apply to his children today.

I would like a short version of what you think applies today, If you use your mind and heart-being, make a short list of all those things (Rules/Laws) that you 'think' applies to all humankind, that is a requirement to be IN Christ, Here and Now in this life...

I personally would like NON bible verses i.e. leave out your referances to the bible, cause with out them, I can tell more clearly where the thought is coming from/your being. I know the Bibles fairly good too, I have them all, and I have E-Sword for one, and ALL the links.  lets say your on the street talking to a person, and make the list above out of YOU.

Of course you may look up all you need too, but say it from you and not cut and paste style.

I do have no problem with being wrong, I have been there so many times that I was beginning to think it was my home.

so lets just be respectful to each others beliefs with out any meaness and all will be well....         everything out of Love... is good.

SORRY MY SPELL CHECKER ISN'T WORKING...

LEE DAMBOISE II

[Barry DuPont]

Yes, but one cannot get to filled. Not in any satisfied state.
Because one see themselfs as still Adamic in ones very nature.

You see the Gospel is a mirror. Until the perfect comes you cannot know as you are known.

The sin that reigns in death is not physical death. This is apparently where you ere greatly.

Seth, where in the bible do you get a  "physical immortality or deathless embodiment". Is that like the flesh and blood that does inherit the kingdom? Is that like a spiritual flesh?
I really do want to understand your view.  

Blessings Barry

[HartleyDamboiseII]

Yes, but one cannot get to filled. Not in any satisfied state.
Because one see themselfs as still Adamic in ones very nature.  ( Sad you see your self this way, the real problem is that YOU see YOUR self as this, I DONT.)

You see the Gospel is a mirror. Until the perfect comes, you cannot know as you are known. I truly feel very sad now that you have not SEEN the perfect come YET.

The sin that reigns in death is not physical death.( Daa, Spiritual death happened to all in Adam, New Life IN Him happened at the Rezz Day FOR ALL THINGS, DONE DEAL.) This is apparently where you ere greatly. (Under your belief system of Death.)

[Barry DuPont]

Yes, but one cannot get to filled. Not in any satisfied state.
Because one see themselfs as still Adamic in ones very nature.  ( Sad you see your self this way, the real problem is that YOU see YOUR self as this, I DONT.)

You see the Gospel is a mirror. Until the perfect comes, you cannot know as you are known. I truly feel very sad now that you have not SEEN the perfect come YET.

The sin that reigns in death is not physical death.( Daa, Spiritual death happened to all in Adam, New Life IN Him happened at the Rezz Day FOR ALL THINGS, DONE DEAL.) This is apparently where you ere greatly. (Under your belief system of Death.)

I'm not following Lee.
It might be possible that you have misunderstood me and or I have not mad myself very clear.
Blessings Barry

[HartleyDamboiseII]

k

[HartleyDamboiseII]

I was referring to post 194

[HartleyDamboiseII]

be back later. Lee