Tidbits of Jugghead

[jugghead]

Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth (Col 3:2)

[jugghead]

To be Non-Bias

It is a belief of mine that "to be non-bias" is the same as saying "on the fence", that we are not "FOR" something but we are also not "AGAINST" it. We may have an opinion either way, but because of something that may be contradictory (not firm) in our beliefs, we do not lean more towards one than the other.

Would I say that I am "bias"? Yes, I would. For example: The belief in the existence of God, I am bias "for" the existence of God, while at the same time, I am bias "against" the non-existence of God. And the same holds true the other way around. If I believed that God did not exist, I would be bias "for" the non-existence of God while at the same time, I would be bias "against" the existence of God.

All things can be looked at in at least two ways, we become "bias" when we become "firm" in what we believe. Because I am "firm" in my belief in the existence of God, I am bias "against" the non-existence of God. What most people tend to miss is what they do with their belief, in other words "what they do with their bias belief".

People tend to hold it "against" a person for believing the way they do, simply because they are not "for" their belief because they believe differently. It is this understanding that has led me to be a person of grace, What I mean by this is: even though I am bias "against" their belief, I do not hold their beliefs "against" them. I separate the person from their beliefs, and in that I can still love the person despite the fact that they do not believe as I do.

In a scriptural sense, I shake the dust off my feet and move on. Not that I walk away from the person (which I have done in the past), but I walk away from the subject of the differences rather than try to force them, or try to convince them to believe what I do. And the reason for this is because, I have considered their beliefs as "dust" to me (but to them it is not). And all this is based upon, you cannot pour new wine into an old wineskin, for the old wineskin will burst and both the wine and wineskin are lost.

In other words, you can't pour a new belief (our wine) into an old wineskin (their beliefs), to continue to do so will cause them to get angry (burst) and the new wine and the old wineskin are both lost.

You cannot pour the belief of "the existence of God" into a wineskin of the belief of "the non-existence of God". With the simple understanding that "the existence of God" and "the non-existence of God" are two totally different things, so are "the wine" and "the wineskin" two totally different things. The same holds true with "the existence of hell" and "the non-existence of hell". I am bias "for" the belief in the existence of hell but I am bias "against" what it is taught to be.

In other words, I am "FOR" the belief in the existence of Sheol as a place of the dead, also understood as the grave, which can also be viewed as "being in darkness". And "to be in darkness" is "to be without Light" and understanding "light" as "truth". In other words; "to be without truth" can be understood to be the same as "to be without light". (Is not Jesus both Truth and Light?) But I am "AGAINST" the belief in the existence of Sheol as "hell" as a place of "eternal torment".

These are my beliefs and I am firm in those beliefs, therefore I am bias "against" other beliefs, but I do not hold the beliefs of another against them. My beliefs are just seeds being planted in a field of fully matured beliefs already growing there. Have I become the enemy sowing tares among the wheat? Not according to what I believe, I am sowing seeds of wheat among the tares that have grown in that field. (But they may think otherwise.)

All this to be prepared in and out of season, and what I mean by that is: I have to know "WHY" I believe the way I do, In other words; I have to have a reason to back up a statement I have made, and a reason for believing that reason and a reason to believe that reason and so on. In other words, it is a perpetual ... ongoing ... reasoning process with another if they are willing to listen. Of which, this same principle holds true with God and us as individuals, we have to be willing to listen, if not, then we remain where we are and "cannot move" from that place, which I see as just another way to describe "being dead".

So, with all this being said,

I AM BIAS when it comes to beliefs (without force/without forcing my beliefs on them)
BUT
I AM NOT BIAS when it comes to people (with Love)

And the REASON for all this: Because

LOVE DOES NOT FORCE

[Andrew]

Posted by Jugghead

"In other words, you can't pour a new belief (our wine) into an old wineskin (their beliefs), to continue to do so will cause them to get angry (burst) and the new wine and the old wineskin are both lost."

I like your thinking on this, but perhaps you could expound on it. If the old wineskin is their beliefs, then how are their beliefs "lost" when you pour the new wine into them?

[jugghead]

Good catch, that is where the example of the tares and wheat come in, their beliefs and our beliefs are like the tares and the wheat.

But also, the example of separating the beliefs from the person, their beliefs are old wine, but the wineskin (themselves) are the old wineskin, it is an understanding that the wineskin is soaked with the old wine and would burst if new wine was poured in.

But also with an understanding of, if they are already full (full of old wine/their beliefs), there is no room to pour in new wine. It needs to be emptied.

Therefore, if we are to be successful in pouring new wine (our beliefs) into them, they have to become a new person (a new wineskin). They have to be willing "to listen" which is becoming "a new wineskin", otherwise they continue to be an old wineskin pouring out their own beliefs which I view as old beliefs.

Which can go to the parable of the sower, it has to be fertile ground (willing to listen) otherwise the seed (or wine) falls by the wayside.

All these are pieces of the puzzle having to be assembled in a certain way in order to clearly see the picture that is being presented.

Hope this didn't cause you more confusion.

Blessings

[darryl]

Christ is "the heart" of the Father
and
The Father is "the mind" of Christ

Beautiful in simplicity but so powerfully true.

I think it is good to consider what it is the eye recognizes "in the light". Only that which is "real" can be seen in the light. That which is not "real" is in the mind- a reflection of ones own imagination. This why Jesus says, "If the light that is in you is darkness how great is that darkness" and "Because you say you see your sin remains(abides, continues). If you wer blind you would have no sin. Therefore become blind that you may see".

So we have power to tear down strongholds and imaginations that exalt themselves against the true knowledge of God- weapons of righteousness in the right hand and the left. Weapons of righteousness are things like "speaking the truth in love" and "If you find a brother in a fault restore such a one in a spirit of meekness considering your own self lest you stumble" and "The servant of the Lord must not strive, but be gentle, patiently instructing those who oppose themselves so they can escape the snare of the devil".

So we must be "well instructed" by the Holy Spirit in the truth of the word and in the spirit of reconciliation in order to hold the candlestick that will truly shine upon "what is"(I am that I am) and bring hidden things to light.

The hidden things("I speak mysteries in parables, things hidden from the foundation of the wrld") can only be brought to light by those who walk in humility, not priding on what they know, but rather exulting in what saves and transforms and reveals -opening the eyes of the blind.

"The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
    because he has anointed me
    to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
    and recovery of sight for the blind,
to set the oppressed free,
    to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."

Beautiful, Eaglesway...I miss your insightful posts...hope you are ok.

[CHB]

Evil, Good, Righteousness


Here is something to think about, that I know most do not, simply because it has taken 60 years for me to be brought to this conclusion. Most people only view things as good or evil. And I say most, because there are those who say there are some things that are neither good or evil, and then there are some who say that some things can be both good and evil. What most miss out on is understanding the difference between "what is good" and "what is righteous".

In what I have come to understand through my studies is: When we take a law ..... the law that says: do not steal. We know for a fact that it is evil to steal and that it is good not to steal. But do we, in our own understanding connect righteousness with being good? What I mean by this is: we know it is good not to steal, but if we don't steal, does the fact that we do not steal, make us righteous? I myself, don't believe so ..... what makes us righteous is "to give". Simply put:

what is considered to be evil is "to steal"
what is considered to be good is "not to steal"
but what is considered to be righteous is "to give"

..... likewise with killing:

what is considered to be evil is "to kill"
what is considered to be good is "to not kill"
but what is considered to be righteous is "to give life"

Understanding the difference between "the covenant of law" and "the covenant of grace". We know that the "law" is good and that it should be obeyed, but do we love the law more than we love Jesus? If Jesus is "righteous", that "being righteous" is an attribute of Jesus and that "being good" is an attribute of the law and that the Father gave us both, He gave us both the law and He gave us Jesus, that He gave us the law under "the old" covenant of the law and that He gave us Jesus under "the new" covenant of grace, have we come to love "what is good" (the law) more than "what is righteous" (Jesus)? And have we come to love "being good" through the law more than we love "being righteous" through Christ?

For me, to understand the difference between "what is good" and "what is righteous" is so misunderstood because the mind can believe that they are exactly the same thing when they're not. Because even people of church teachings know that there is a big difference between "just being good" and "being righteous". And do we misunderstand that our obedience to the law is "just being good", but our obedience to Christ is "being righteous"? But this comes down to "the reason" for doing something, in other words, it comes down to our "motive" FOR doing something.

Understanding the difference between "have to" and "want to" is very important at this time. Because what is our "motive" FOR giving? Do we give because we "have to" or do we give because we "want to"? In other words, do we give because it is "law" written "ON" our hearts and we "have to" obey that law, OR, do we give because it is "grace" "IN" our hearts and we "want to" obey that grace? Do we see that this "grace" IN our hearts is different than "the law" written ON our hearts?

The disciple John wrote down these words of Christ in the book of Revelation:

"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear My voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with Me." (3:20).

Have we opened the door to our hearts and let the "Grace" of God in? And when we look upon our own heart, do we look beyond whatis written ON our hearts (the law) and see what is IN our hearts (grace)? And do we understand that when we give, it is Christ IN us "wanting to give" to another rather than ourselves of law "having to give" to another? And by this, do we get a better understanding of these words of John:

"Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world."
(1 John 4:4).

That it is a greater thing to give because you "want to" through Grace, rather than to give because you "have to" through law? Have we BECOME the Grace of God, having entered into the new covenent of grace or have we REMAINED in the law of God, remaining under the old covenant of the law?

The apostle Paul writes these words:

"Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. (Galatians 3:24)

This word "faith" is G1402 with the definition of "persuasion", taken from the word G3982 which means "to convince". So with this in mind, shouldn't we understand that this definition of "persuasion" is understood in the context of "to persuade" or "to convince"? And that when we bring in the concept of "the law", that it is to be understood as "being persuaded" or "being convinced", what is good and what is evil? That the law itself can convince us "what is good" and "what is evil"? But, do we realize that "what is righteous" comes through Christ? Which is why I believe the apostle Paul states what he does in that the law is our schoolmaster to teach us good and evil, but that it is to lead us to Christ to understand "what is righteous" so that we can be justified by being persuaded; being convinced of "what is righteous" through Christ.

This is also why I believe what Paul says when he states:

"For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."
(Romans 10:3-4).

That the ignorance, the lack of understanding God's righteousness (that is "to give"), they went about establishing their own righteousness (that is "to not steal"), having not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God, that righteousness of God being "to give", not just "to not steal", Because Christ is the end of the law for righteousness, "to not steal", to every one that believeth. Do we believe that this is what the apostle meant when he had these words written down in his letter to the Romans? Or do we still lack understanding "what is good" through the law AND "what is righteous" through Christ? For me, it is the understanding of: under the old covenant of the law, it was righteous (good) not to steal, but under the new covenant of grace, what becomes righteous is "to give".

Another reason I believe this is because of the short phrase Paul wrote with the words: "what the law could not do" (Romans 8:3), that the law could not show us "what is righteous", it could not show us that it is "righteous to give", it could only show us "what is good", in other words: it could only show us it was "good" not to steal.

I have no idea if you ..... the reader ..... understand these things that I have written. I hope that you do and that I have not caused you any confusion. That is the last thing I want to do. So all I ask is, if you are confused in understanding this: then consider me a liar and let God be true. Take this directly to Him and literally live the words:

"let God be true; but every man a liar" (Romans 3:4).

I too, am just a man, so consider me a liar. I put myself out there to be judged by you, and I put what I write out there to be judged by you. I don't have to give you any authority to judge me or judge what I write, you already have that. All I ask is that you try to understand the point I am trying to make by thinking about it first; thinking about it "before" you come to a verdict of whether I am a liar or not.

The reason I say all this is because; when we take into consideration the other law I was talking about, that it is evil "to kill" and that it is "good" not to kill; do we also understand that to be righteous is "to give life"? Which raises the question: How do we, being just a human being, give life to someone else, when we know that only God can literally give life to someone?

So by this, thinking from a different perspective, have we ever considered that "to give life" to someone can be understood differently than what we have been taught? If "God is Love" and "Christ is Life" and if we have seen Christ, we have seen the Father; wouldn't it stand to reason that to give "love" to another is to give "life" to another? Do we see this when we read the words:

"And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." (Matthew 22:39),

That if we are giving "love" to our neighbor, we are giving "life" to our neighbor? Do we not yet understand that the understanding
of: the Father and the Son are one, is the same as saying: "Love" and "Life" are one? It has taken over 13 years of studying for me to understand this.

I hope it takes others less.

Blessings

Hi jugghead, just got around to reading this. Sorry it took me so long. I enjoyed reading this, keep up thegood work.

CHB

[jugghead]

Just wanted to make a comment on the policy of stating things as "my opinion" or "what I believe".

Don't know if others would agree with me, but it dawned on me just the other day and it makes sense to me.

If we state things as "our opinion" or "our belief" it is coming from us, but if we say that what we speak "IS" truth (even though we believe it is), it is my opinion that we make ourselves out "to be" God rather than a child of His.

Does that make sense to others or am I just splitting hairs?

In other words, I believe it is a GOOD policy

Blessings

[jabcat]

 :thumbsup:   God does say.  God is Truth.  God shares truth.   We, as finite beings who are regenerated/spiritually renewed, are putting on His mind and learning OF Him.  Yet none of us ARE Him, and none of us have ALL the truth (IMO :) ).  So even though we should be convinced IN OUR OWN minds of certain things, I believe we should still always leave open that there's more to learn, I/we may have only partial knowledge or revelation on a particular matter, or (gasp) even be wrong about something and still stand for some correction/edification. 

So I don't believe it's a UNIVERSALLY perfect policy - it does require some discernment and judgment on all our parts, and especially the moderators - still, in a setting like this and for the sake of ongoing discussion/examination, it works PRETTY well.  2 cents.   Anything else is called a personal blog, individual teaching, accepted doctrine, etc.   :2c: :2c: :2c:

[jabcat]

...also, it helps minimize unproductive and unecessary dissension and conflict;  which often ends up actually ending a conversation prematurely.

[jugghead]

...also, it helps minimize unproductive and unecessary dissension and conflict;  which often ends up actually ending a conversation prematurely.

I agree with all you said jabcat, it just seems to me that there are some who haven't realized it yet

Since Christ is called the Word of God, that He is the physical manifestation of what God speaks, we too are becoming like His Son and speak Him, people accept it or reject it just as they did Jesus.

Which brings to mind, they hate you (love us less) because they first hated Me (loved Jesus less)

But again, this is just my point of view

[jabcat]

...also, it helps minimize unproductive and unecessary dissension and conflict;  which often ends up actually ending a conversation prematurely.

I agree with all you said jabcat, it just seems to me that there are some who haven't realized it yet

Since Christ is called the Word of God, that He is the physical manifestation of what God speaks, we too are becoming like His Son and speak Him, people accept it or reject it just as they did Jesus.

Which brings to mind, they hate you (love us less) because they first hated Me (loved Jesus less)

But again, this is just my point of view

:2thumbs:   :dsunny:

[jugghead]

Double Minded

(Two spirited)

I was reading an article about being double minded, the explanation that was given for being double minded only dealt with the law of God. What I mean by that is: When we are tempted to sin, do we sin or do we not sin? In other words, "is it only law that comes to mind"? And we either disregard the law (throw the law away) and disobey the law and sin anyway or do we not disregard the law (not throw it away) and obey it by not sinning? If being double minded has to do with only the Covenant of Law, why is there also a Covenant of Grace?

It is my belief that we have misunderstood what it means to be double minded. The disciple James uses the word G1374 twice in his writing, (1:8 and 4:8) and it is the only place that this word is used in all of the New Testament. It has the original meaning of: two spirited, that is, vacillating (in opinion or purpose).

It is my opinion that God used the Law to show us how we can be "two spirited", that we can have a spirit of obedience and we can have a spirit of disobedience. But is this where our understanding of being "two spirited" is to end? I myself do not believe so.

In the Gospel of Luke we see a different example of being two spirited (if you choose to believe that it is).

The disciples James and John wanted to call down fire from heaven to consume the Samaritans that did not receive him, but Jesus rebuked them by saying "Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of" (9:55) and then he says "For the Son of Man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them." (9:56). Can you see the two spirits here? A spirit of destruction and a Spirit of saving? With this, do we see that since they were rebuked by Jesus, that if they carried out their action of bringing down fire from heaven to destroy the Samaritans, they would have been disobeying Jesus? But, because they were rebuked, which I believe, was Jesus saying it is wrong to destroy men, they obeyed Jesus by not calling down the fire.

Do we believe that Jesus will destroy the men who do not receive Him? Do we believe God is a spirit of destruction despite the fact that His Son rebuked the disciples that had this spirit? If the Father and the Son are one Spirit, how can we believe God will destroy those who do not receive Jesus rather than save them? It is my understanding that God is a destroyer of sin NOT a destroyer of men, simply because, it is my belief that by the destruction of sin in a man, it saves the man; it saves the man from that which causes his own destruction and the destruction of others, that cause being sin itself.

To take this a step further, I believe that we need to understand the difference between the terms "to condemn" and "to destroy". Both of these terms are actions on our part, that "to condemn" is an action of coming to a conclusion of guilt (a verdict of guilt) through our own mind and heart and that "to destroy" is the action of our own body carrying out the sentence; the carrying out of the sentence we believe that fits the sin/crime that we condemned the person of.

So, by this, do we see that James and John had condemned the Samaritans for not receiving Jesus? They had come to the conclusion that it was wrong to not receive Jesus, they come to a verdict of guilt, and that a spirit of condemnation was in their own mind and heart, and now that spirit of condemnation gains strength from the body and is manifested as a spirit of destruction through the physical body, carrying out the act of destruction through the physical body.

It is a hard thing to think about that John and James sought to be instruments of destruction against the Samaritans because of the spirit of condemnation that was in their heart and mind. But this is what I see in the reason why Jesus rebuked them. He saw the spirit of condemnation in their heart and knew that the next thing that would happen would be for them to want to try and destroy what the Son of Man came to save.

It is my belief that a deeper understanding of being "two spirited" doesn't pertain to just "a Spirit of obedience" (which is of the Son) and "a spirit of disobedience" (which is of man), of which, these have to do with the Covenant of Law, but it also pertains to "a Spirit of Saving" (which is of the Son) and "a spirit of destruction" (which is of man), of which these two have to do with both the Covenant of Law and the Covenant of Grace.

It is my belief that we become the new creature of forgiveness when we move into the new Covenant of Grace, putting to death the old creature of condemnation that we became under the old Covenant of the Law; of which I believe is our spiritual baptism. That to be baptized is to be submerged into the Spirit of Grace where the old self of condemnation through the law becomes bound.

Recorded by Matthew in his gospel, Jesus says this: "How can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? And then he will spoil his house" (Matthew 12:29).

I understand this as: How can Christ (the Spirit of Grace) enter into a strong man's house (the spirit of condemnation's heart of law) and spoil his goods (the works of the devil), except Christ first binds the spirit of condemnation (strong man)? And then Christ can spoil his house (heart of condemnation). Do we not read that "the strength of sin is the law"? Which I can see as: "the strong man of sin is the law".

For me, to be "two spirited" is to be a house divided, that we can have both spirits in us, "the Spirit of forgiveness" and "the spirit of condemnation" one through the Covenant of Grace (the Spirit of forgiveness) and the other through the Covenant of Law (the spirit of condemnation). But we can't see that we ourselves are divided, despite the fact that when we divide mankind in two, condemning some while forgiving others, (when ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God) that this is an outward manifestation of what is taking place inside of us.

I myself choose to be of only the Covenant of Grace, being the new creature of forgiveness, and the only way I am of the Covenant of Law is to condemn sin, not men. For it is my belief that this is how both Covenants work together as one.

As always, this is how I understand things and it is only my opinion

Blessings

[jugghead]

Just something that came to mind and wanted to share.

Healing is Saving

How often have we read Luke 14:1-5 and missed the treasure hidden in this example? In all of our personal studies, we constantly run across contrasts and comparisons, we know, and have found some that are very obvious, but then there are those that are not so obvious, and I believe, they cannot be revealed unless the door to our heart remains open to allow the Spirit of God to enter in and sup.

What I am speaking of here is the comparison of the two things that Jesus speaks in these verses. He asks the question, "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath day?" (v. 3) and then He asks another question, "Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the Sabbath day?" (v. 5).

We know by verse one that Jesus heals a man who has dropsy, but by the comparison of the two questions, do we see that Jesus is comparing the disease dropsy to falling into a pit, and that another comparison is that in His healing of the man, it is a comparison of the animal being pulled out of the pit?

I found it interesting when I read up on the disease of dropsy, that it is a retention of water which causes a swelling of body parts. Looking at the spiritual aspect of it, we know that water can be compared to a spirit, and that in other studies of the written word that we can become swelled up in knowledge and that can also lead us to become prideful in that knowledge.

How smart is Jesus to use a physical example of a man who suffers from dropsy to be an example of what the Pharisees suffered from spiritually in being prideful in their knowledge of the law? Because is not His first question. "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath day?" trying to show them they are not as knowledgeable about the law as they think and the proof of it is in the lack of an answer by them.

Now, looking at this from a different perspective when it comes to the examples of an ass and an ox. That in these two examples, what I believe are the most obvious aspects of these two animals are, an ass has the aspect of stubbornness, and the ox has the aspect of strength, and that the two combined is being strong in stubbornness, which I also believe can be compared to being stiff-necked or prideful.

Now, getting back to the comparison of the two examples of healing the man from dropsy and the pulling of an animal from the pit, this is what I believe to be a comparison of healing and saving, that these two things can be viewed as different, but also can be viewed as the same thing through the mind of Jesus.

That the physical healing from dropsy is a spiritual saving from the pit of pride.

[rosered]

I like what you share brother ,
  I BELIEVE that Jesus CHRIST  IS the sabbath day and  rest ....  and the tree of life etc . all is that was and will be for sure .




ACTS 7 48However, the Most High does not dwell in houses made by human hands. As the prophet says:

49? Heaven is My throne

and the earth is My footstool.

What kind of house will you build for Me, says the Lord,

or where will My place of repose be?

50Has not My hand made all these things??

51You stiff-necked people with uncircumcised hearts and ears!

You always resist the Holy Spirit, just as your fathers did.

52Which of the prophets did your fathers fail to persecute? They even killed those who foretold the coming of the Righteous One. And now you are His betrayers and murderers?

53you who received the law ordained by angels, yet have not kept it.


My main concern  is how  one IS always resisting the Holy Spirit !

I understand how hard it is to share   truth with one another
  truth is reality     and facts  from GOD  , not statements 
words without proof  create  doubts and cause many to stumble over the truth . 
I believe we have been horribly subjected to    lies , delusions and   that is though our hearing , 
illusions are  brought on though our seeing  incorrectly

   and understanding is  the inability to discern and seperate what is of the world and what is of God .

What good is Wisdom with out understanding it ? it is just babble .

  Healing to me ,is given the eyes to see and ears to hear and a heart to understand what the Holy Spirit is saying ..

That comes though  true repentance and  forgiveness    from GOD , Salvation is only of God though Jesus CHRIST

I honestly do not believe it can be found  here in this world but can only be found in a true relationship with our LORD  AND HOLY FATHER   
free from swelled up  falsity of knowledge , it does apply to us also  , even more so ,as we learn  righteousness  though the teaching of the WORD by the Holy Spirit  though obedience , it has always been a spirit of rebellion that causes us to stumble .

I do agree it is the pride of life that is  the fatal flaw and   deadly wound needing to be healed by JESUS .
1 John 2 Do Not Love the World
15Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world? the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life? is not from the Father but from the world. 17The world is passing away, along with its desires; but whoever does the will of God remains forever.?
HOW DO WE OVERCOME THE WORLD ?
Jesus said be of good cheer  I HAVE OVERCOME THE WORLD  , Greater is He that is in  you than in the world ....our Living and giving vine of life , full of truth and grace . we must ask and even beg if need to . ask (JESUS ) earnestly and  humbly for something.
John 8:32
And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.


John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the one and only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 1:17
For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

John 8:36
So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.

Romans 6:18
You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

Romans 6:22
But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the fruit you reap leads to holiness, and the outcome is eternal life.

Romans 8:2
For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life has set you free from the law of sin and death.

1 Corinthians 7:22
For he who was a slave when he was called by the Lord is the Lord's freedman. Conversely, he who was a free man when he was called is Christ's slave.

2 Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

Galatians 5:1
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not be encumbered once more by a yoke of slavery.

Galatians 5:13
For you, brothers, were called to freedom; but do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh. Rather, serve one another in love.

James 1:25
But the one who looks intently into the perfect law of freedom, and continues to do so--not being a forgetful hearer, but an effective doer--he will be blessed in what he does.

James 2:12
Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the Law that gives freedom.

1 Peter 2:16
Live in freedom, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God

Being spoon fed lies and tricks of falsity  is Babylons course and works of doing .

the tickling of the ears  and grande schemes and herd mentality .

If a blind man leads others into a ditch/pit   they all fall from grace ............

teaching men so

Matt 5 The Fulfillment of the Law
?18For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.?

Matthew 11:11
Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has risen no one greater than John the Baptist. Yet even the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

James 2:10
Whoever keeps the whole Law but stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

1 John 3:4
Everyone who practices sin practices lawlessness as well. Indeed, sin is lawlessness.
   

  It is a very HIGH STANDARD  And impossible to keep with words without the works also .

The works can only be done by the Holy Spirit  working in us .  we have none of our own , only obedience works  though faith in GOD
To me it can only be achieved from asking and listening and believing  with a simple and honest come clean  attitude . 
a surrender of desire to  only please   GOD and not any other motive can do those works  .

it is a daily process that can cause the new man of the heart to be renewed and grow in truth and grace being  our reality 

  truth  and grace though Jesus Christ  being the WORD spoken that judges us all .  John 12 , 


Belief and Unbelief  is what will determine our reality or   truth ..


?47As for anyone who hears My words and does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I have not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48There is a judge for the one who rejects Me and does not receive My words:


The word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day. 49I have not spoken on My own, but the Father who sent Me has commanded Me what to say and how to say it.?
   

[Ross]

  It is a daily process that can cause the new man of the heart to be renewed and grow in truth and grace being  our reality 

  truth  and grace though Jesus Christ  being the WORD spoken that judges us all . 
   

Exactly why we are to die daily, as Paul said. To take up the cross as Christ said.

1 Cor 15;31 " I affirm by the pride in you that I have in Christ Jesus our Lord; I die every day."

This after his pointing out earlier in vs 10 of chapter 15;
" But by God's grace I am what I am, and His grace toward me is not ineffective.
However, I worked more than any of them, Yet not I, but God's grace that was with me."

I.M.O this is saying that he recognises that his position is Christ's work, not his.

Heb 4;8-11  " For if Joshua had given them rest he would not have spoken concerning another day.
                    Hence there is left over a Sabbath-keeping for the people of God.
                    For he that has entered into his rest has rested from his works just as God rested from His own.
                    Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that rest, lest anyone fall into the same example of obstinacy."



Amazing how many wars/crusades have happened claiming to be ordained by God.
This I.M.O is because people are trying to convince themselves that their works are for God.
This being pretty much the opposite of the pioneers of the gospel as they at no point made war to win anyone over to Christ or to claim any territory for God.

I recall trying to claim earthly territories from heavenly spirits. All to do the work of Christ.
I have since been convinced that Christ covered everything and everyone.
I.M.O we were made in the flesh so that we learn there are  consequences for choices. Learn responsibility for action.
Yep we make mistakes, but they are necessary to  broaden our understanding.
I.M.O the appreciation for Christ and what He did, and will do, grows as I rest from my words/efforts.
Now there is a confidence and peace which is hard to describe in earthly terms. His love never fails is an awesome reality.

2 Cor 4;7  " And we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God and NOT of us."

After all, before the world began He knew us.

[rosered]

I am sorry I am putting this up here on Juggs thread , but  for the sake of sounding insane here 

I love what you shared Ross , and know that the Holy Spirit  is teaching me to wait on the Lord  for many months now , I decided not to  speak out , but for the sake of sharing to those with hears to hear  what the Spirit is saying , I BELIEVE   
  and what many others are trying to  express also  , here it is .

I know that to the pure all things are pure  , but to the defiled ,Are those whom used the LAW unlawfully

for their own greedy gain and to crush others with that LAW of SIN = DEATH

they teach death , but those whom know that Jesus Christ defeated death on the cross  for all sin for all time , died for the sins of the whole world  ,  will refuse to judge anyone  that are slaves to sin ,and sin in the flesh , no flesh pleases God never has nd never will , it is the  Esau  curse that even though he cried out with tears , God was never going to accept those fleshly desires of the heart , but now being set free from the law  of sin and death , now  rather  explain the law of freedom though Jesus Christ victory and how he has also raised us from the dead ,because we hear His voice ,   likened to the metaphor  of John 12  Lazarus means whom GOD helps ,  that help is the new man in Christ that was freed from the law of sin and death by living according to that law and judging others and self condemnation  defiles  the good works of the Holy Spirit  in everyone !
  I will say this  , for the sake of sounding insane ,
  the greatest example I saw was when the Jews were put to death during world war 2  by Hitler  , the beast shall hate the Whore . God gave the Jewish nation   the law of sin and death  and they died  by that law openly  , for the world to see and also a remembrance / example .

I see the very same thing getting ready to happen all over again with all the rest of the nations also given the same law  and becoming the same spirit of pride and Babylon spirit    that brought death to them also  .
 
Till Christ comes again will He find faith in the earth ?

Because in  70 ad , 70 years of after Christ we saw the first exposure to this  destruction of Jerusalem  , same as in world war 2  same destruction of the peoples  the temples of Jerusalem    and now once again   were are fixing to see the same results

  its says the saints are overcome  , that is the HOLY ONES , not the flesh and blood  people , but the crushing of the  faith in GOD  though the spirits that have been misled into death and not life though HER  heavens .......

  the queen of heaven is that curse  of idol worshipping  and NOT Believing in the Son of GOD as  the WAY GOD MADE  FOR US AND THE TRUTH GOD HAS BROUGHT FORTH  AND THE LIFE HE GAVE US TO LIVE FOR HIM . Being the ruler of the heavens and earth and even below ...

Jeremiah 7:18 ESV
The children gather wood, the fathers kindle fire, and the women knead dough, to make cakes for the queen of heaven. And they pour out drink offerings to other gods, to provoke me to anger...
She is the same Babylonian spirit of Gen 11 , now we see here that in Titus wow!!

titus 1 Correcting False Teachers
?14and will pay no attention to Jewish myths or to the commands of men who have rejected the truth. 15To the pure, all things are pure; but to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure. Indeed, both their minds and their consciences are defiled. 16They profess to know God, but by their actions they deny Him. They are detestable, disobedient, and unfit for any good deed.?


here we have Paul formerly Saul  whom was under the law of sin and death but was  picked by JESUS WHILE in the Spirit  already to teach him the truth and life and whom would suffer many things  for His names sake ,  the world hates those whom LOVE GOD  and want to put them mouths to silence and death ...
Where, O Death, is Your Victory?
?55?Where, O Death, is your victory? Where, O Death, is your sting?? 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ!?

Romans 3:20
Therefore no one will be justified in His sight by works of the Law. For the Law merely brings awareness of sin.

Romans 4:15
because the Law brings wrath. And where there is no law, there is no transgression.

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, so also death was passed on to all men, because all sinned.

Romans 7:8
But sin, seizing its opportunity through the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from the Law, sin is dead.

  sin is dead when the law of Liberty though Jesus Christ is alive and makes us free from that law , we are to touch not taste not or handle that law ever again for as we judge so shall we be judged by the same  LAW of sin and death 
dying daily is a two edged SWORD / WORD    that applies to us all  during the  teaching of righteousness in Jesus Christ

  To me our greatest  hope is in prayer that God hears us and  makes a way that has no other way of escaping this worlds wrath  against GOD   and GODS wrath against sin  and the plagues and vials  and woes that are  being poured out to make us all humbled
by the  weight of it ...   overcoming the world means trusting in GODS desire till the end and letting GOD save us all .......
our cross is to also go silent before our accusers   , that voice of satan that is an adversary against LIFE /LOVE /GOD
REVELATION  to me explains the course  and is a key of understanding what the DAY OF THE LORD is and really means for it to go  down as such , because our faith will be tested like no other time  except as the times of great troubles  , shown in 70 ad and the time of the Jewish nation under the power of Hitler's reign , they consumed them with fire and with hate
  we are to not hold any thing against anyone  for being different than what we believe , because we are judging  sin and sin has a sting of death in it causing our own demise and shame  !   
this is what I believe and am being taught as of now  and thought it was worth  sharing   , let us all  come to the place of
  Gods saving grace though Jesus Christ the anointed and appointed ONE   to fulfill all things of heaven and earth and even below .philippians 2  ;10  DARBY
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of heavenly and earthly and infernal [beings],

Eph 1
?9And He has made known to us the mystery of His will according to His good pleasure, which He purposed in Christ 10as a plan for the fullness of time, to bring all things in heaven and on earth together in Christ. 11In Him we were also chosen as God?s own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything by the counsel of His will,?

Mark 1:15
"The time is fulfilled," He said, "and the kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe in the gospel!"

Ephesians 3:2
Surely you have heard about the stewardship of God's grace that was given to me for you,

Ephesians 3:15
from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name.

Philippians 2:9
Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place and gave Him the name above all names,

Philippians 2:10
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

Colossians 1:16
For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.
 

  It is a promise of God that will be done !! I can only hope to be found worthy to  express my own gratitude towards  HIM and glorify God as HE IS WORTHY OF ALL PRAISE .........   

[jugghead]

Hey Rose, you don't have to apologize for putting it up on my thread, the whole point to this thread was to get people to think, and the things you say DO THAT.

Many blessings

[rosered]

Hey Rose, you don't have to apologize for putting it up on my thread, the whole point to this thread was to get people to think, and the things you say DO THAT.

Many blessings

  Yes Brother !  LOVE IN ACTION =Works  of faith being fulfilled in CHRIST .
  That  Holy anointing of the  WORD &  Holy Spirit in agreement .

[Ross]

  I know that to the pure all things are pure  , but to the defiled ,Are those whom used the LAW unlawfully  for their own greedy gain and to crush others with that LAW of SIN = DEATH

They teach death ;
but those whom know that Jesus Christ defeated death on the cross  for all sin for all time ,
died for the sins of the whole world  ,
will refuse to judge anyone  that are slaves to sin ,and sin in the flesh ,
no flesh pleases God never has and never will .
it is the  Esau  curse that even though he cried out with tears , God was never going to accept those fleshly desires of the heart.
But now,
being set free from the law  of sin and death , now  rather  explains the law of freedom though Jesus Christ victory and how he has also raised us from the dead ,because we hear His voice ,   likened to the metaphor  of John 12  Lazarus means whom GOD helps ,  that help is the new man in Christ that was freed from the law of sin and death.
By living according to that law and judging others and self condemnation  defiles  the good works of the Holy Spirit  in everyone !
 

This is pretty much the summary of the whole shebang.

  It is a promise of God that will be done !! I can only hope to be found worthy to  express my own gratitude towards  HIM and glorify God as HE IS WORTHY OF ALL PRAISE .........   

Christ has made you worthy.
Appreciating Him to the full is a sacrifice of self that recognizes His work as comprehensive. His timing and development of your awareness/understanding speak volumes about why we are here, and where we are going to be in the future.
Thanks to Christ we are children of God.

[rosered]

  Hello  Brother Ross ,
  I can only say that God is using the Holy Spirit to refine many scriptures and teachings in the WORD , we keep in our hearts for the right time to clarify them for  us , He alone is faithful  just and true .

  Strange things are happening    right now for many  , the refining process  by the Holy Spirit , through  the stumbling and  causing us to rise and stand in the TRUTH  with that little help .   spoken of in Daniel 11

Many of the scriptures  that remained obscure are now coming to Light and connecting in ways  we never thought possible

  The study of the two witnesses  a brother brought up , made me  search and recall   and seek and until it is settled in your heart securely and steadfastly  without any  wavering  of doubts , we still struggle wit the Truth  GODS reality  for us all .

I have believed the LORD is teaching us all by HIS testimony   and witness and it is of upmost importance to understand these strange and uncertain  times we are in ..   

  THINGS we thought were important  are just  falling away and never mattered and yet we clung to them .
   the Holy Spirit is in  POWER for sure right now and is going to be making all the difference .

the WORD IS COMING ALIVE  IN POWER BY GODS HOLY SPIRIT  AND MANIFESTING TRUTH TO all whom will believe in HIM .
 
  I was thrilled to finally understand with certainty  and thankful  for the simple truth

   Jesus Christ testimony is the Very Spirit of prophecy and every answer is in HIS WORD 

  and only given by the HOLY SPIRIT  ..

   I hope to share these findings soon if God is willing .     and am both excited to learn of Him and fear the Lord also , both are an important part of growing in truth and grace  ,
I have to learn to forgive much better than in times past  , everyone for everything  to be found worthy   

  Forgiving is a major part of letting go and letting God DO HIS PERFECT WORK in all things .  vengeance is the LORDS AND He repays as we wait on the LORD   in a safe place of His choosing .

  we all have our own personal stories to tell of God dealing with us and all I can say is WOW  ,when we actually obey and examine ourselves  to see if we are in the faith of Our Lord Jesus Christ,   what an eye  opener this journey has been so far ............

The convicting  and  convincing,  chastening and confirming  every little thing and comparing them to His Word of Life

  the struggles are real and the rewards are our truth /reality .

LOVE really does overcome  the world our HOPE is kept alive  though faith in HIM ..


Overcoming the world means that you are no longer controlled by the things of this world.

Those waters that cause us to  stumble and  faint  and doubt ,  You are no longer moved by what happens around you but you are only moved by what God says to you through His word and His Spirit, and become  joyful in knowing this ,because you are saved  by HIM AND THOUGH HIM AND FOR HIM .

, only the LORD CAN WALK ON THE WATERS FROM BELOW   BY THE WATERS /MANY VOICES /WATERS   from ABOVE with Him in you and you in Him and the Father .
 


    John 14  Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit
?19In a little while the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you also will live.

20On that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you are in Me, and I am in you.

21Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him.??


Who so ever is born of God overcomes the world?
1 John 5:4, ESV: "For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world?our faith."    
  the new creature in Christ   hidden in the heart   has become  strong in the LORD , for greater is He that is in you than in the world .

   GOD WITH US , IMMANUEL His name ?Emmanuel? means you are never alone or without His presence. ... God himself is always with you. Hebrews 13:5-6 tell us, ?? for He hath said, I will never leave you, nor forsake you.

[Ross]

  Hello  Brother Ross ,
  I can only say that God is using the Holy Spirit to refine many scriptures and teachings in the WORD , we keep in our hearts for the right time to clarify them for  us , He alone is faithful  just and true .

Amen! :dsunny:

[jugghead]

Wanted to post what I wrote in another thread here.

My viewpoint of:

"The Second Death"

To expand on what I believe, for me, an understanding of "the second death" is our first death if it happens before our physical body dies. That the LOF is His purification process that we can go through either before our physical body dies or after. And that the purification process is our "way of thinking" being changed, which is why I believe Paul says, "be transformed by the renewing of the mind".

What I mean by this is two fold, first that if we still see ourselves as one with our physical body, upon its death we still believe that we die, but when that "way of thinking" is changed, we come to realize we have been separated from this physical body, I am still in my physical body but I am not of my physical body, which can be understood through "I am in this world but I am not of this world". We no longer view the death of our physical body as we ourselves dying, we are the spirit (breath) inside a body, we now see the death of our physical body as the means of transferring our spirit from the physical existence into the spiritual existence.

In short, when my physical body dies, I do not, I no longer view the death of my physical body as death, just a transfer of my spirit from one place to another.

and second, that our way of thinking is one of: if we are still, even partially connected to our physical body, in other words, still even partially connected to the flesh in our mind, we see ourselves as dying twice, first we see ourselves as dying when the physical body dies and also we see ourselves dying in the LOF which is the rest of the purification process. Which is why I believe that the words "appointed once to die" doesn't make sense to a lot of people. I myself believe that this term "appointed once to die" only has to do with the fact that EVERYONE will go into the LOF, into the purification process.

But if our way of thinking has changed about the physical death of our body, that it is a transfer of our spirit from one place to another, the second death has no power on us, simply because our mind has already been renewed on this aspect and we welcome the rest of the process.

Which for me, if we are no longer connected to any fleshly way of thinking we no longer see the LOF like a lake of fire in a physical sense, we see it for what it truly is, entering into Christ. For me, our way of thinking determines how we see, either as an "it" (the LOF) or a person (The Father and Son as ONE).

[jugghead]

Why the Physical?

To expand on this brief article title, it is to say, "Why did God create the physical universe?" We know that there has to be a reason, correct? But before I dive into why I believe He did, I would like to show you something that has already happened in what I have written already.

What I am talking about is "expansion". What I mean by this is, we have the question "why the physical?", which is the title of the article, now we see an expansion of that question, done by writing "Why did God create the physical universe?".

Now let's actually see what happened by another example. I will use a framed painting as the example. When we are quite a distance from the painting, we can tell that it is a picture, and we judge that by seeing the frame around the picture, but we are still a distance from it, and we cannot tell what it is a picture of. As we move closer, we start to see the picture take form, but we still cannot tell whether it is a photograph or a painting. It isn't until we get quite a bit closer that we can tell, when we get really close, we see the brush marks in the painting.

The question "why the physical" is like being quite a distance from the painting; it is a small understanding. Now the question "Why did God create the physical universe?", is an expansion of the first question, and it is expanded by adding more words to it. It is by adding more words to it that the question itself becomes clearer, and what I mean by that is, it is better understood. We have a larger understanding of the question. So, in conclusion, we can understand that by the adding of words, we get a clearer understanding of the question.

The reason for this is to understand that things can take place that are not always obvious. Our mind can register a change, but do we stop and think about the change, or do we just move on with what we are reading? Another thing that happened in the last paragraph is the use of the words "larger" and "clearer", they have become synonyms, but only because they have been used "in the context" of "moving closer".

There are so many things that take place while we are reading and our mind just keeps moving on, not slowing down to see a clearer picture. Now I have to ask, even though we keep moving, are we getting closer to the picture, meaning are we getting a better understanding? The reason I ask this question is because, seeing something from a different viewpoint, a different perspective can result in seeing that, even though we are constantly moving, does not necessarily mean we are moving closer to the object we want a clearer picture of.

Here is an example, just because the earth is constantly moving, does not mean it is getting closer to the sun, it is orbiting the sun. In other words, it is moving sideways in relation to the sun.

Now if our Lord Christ Jesus is the sun and we are the earth, are we moving closer to Christ or are we moving sideways, always the same distance from Him, but not getting closer to Him?

We can read the Bible as much as we want, and we may be doing just that, but do we see ourselves getting closer to Christ or just constantly moving? Just like the sun, Christ is the center of our beliefs. I now want you to picture our earth as your beliefs. Just like the planet revolves/orbits around the sun, our beliefs revolve around Christ.

Now, since the earth is made up of physical matter, do we see that our beliefs can be of the physical nature, which can also be understood as "the flesh nature". And if the earth had a decaying orbit, causing it to get closer to the sun, it eventually would burn up. So, in the same way, as we are getting closer to Christ, is our flesh nature being burned away?

And in the same sense, if the earth is "our understanding", if it is our understanding of the flesh nature being burned up as we move closer to Christ, doesn't it stand to reason that we can better understand ourselves by the physical aspects around us?

As you have been reading, have you noticed that the earth has been example of "us", it has been an example of "our beliefs", it has been an example of "the physical nature", it has been an example of "the flesh nature", it has been an example of "our understanding"; and "our understanding of the flesh nature". Do we understand all these examples as true happenings as we draw closer to Christ?

So, it is at this point I have to ask, has God connected all this in your mind? Have you had the revelation that the reason God created the physical is to better understand ourselves and who we are? And to better understand our own journey, our own walk, in relation to Christ? To better understand God and who He is and what He is doing and how He is doing it? Would this not be a perfect example of the verse, "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints."? (1 Corinthians 14:33).

So now it begs the question; Do things confuse you? And if so, why are you confused? Is not confusion a condition of not knowing what the actual truth is? I truly believe so. And if God is not the author of confusion, who is? Who do you go to, to hear the truth? Do they bring you peace in their understanding or just more confusion?

It is my belief that peace comes from "knowing" the truth. If you are at peace with what you know, but confusion is always still present in your heart and mind, does it not stand to reason that the confusion will burn up, the closer you get to God?

Most people are happy with what they know and what they believe, and I have no judgments towards them simply because of what I have already written. Just like the earth and the sun have a relationship in this solar system, so do others and they don't even know it.

For me, I was given a hunger to know the truth, it was an insatiable hunger that I had to feed. For others, they have not been given this hunger yet, do not be discouraged if you have not received it. You will receive it, whether in this physical life or in the spiritual life that is to come, what I mean by that is, you will receive it before your physical body dies or you will receive it after your physical body dies.

Even the apostle Paul understood this in his first letter to Timothy; "Who will have all men to be saved, and come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:4).

It is my opinion that what we are being saved from is our own ignorance of the truth, our own lack of understanding of the truth. I will say it once more and it is worthwhile to be repeated, the reason God created the physical universe is to understand everything spiritual, it is why I believe God rested on the seventh day, He had created everything we need to understand, in order to understand everything spiritual.

Which brings to mind, "The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. (Ecclesiastes 1:9).

Which I believe can be understood this way; "The thing that hath been (a physical understanding outside of us) it is that which shall be (a spiritual understanding inside of us); and that which is done (God's creating of the physical outside of us) is that which shall be done (the creating of the spiritual inside of us): and there is no new thing under the sun. (no need for any new physical examples).

And if all this makes sense to you and you believe it, it opens up the Bible in a way you never thought possible.

[marie glen]

I love the analogy of Jesus as the sun, and us as the earth, and our understanding.. As we orbit him closer, confusion, etc is burned up! That is a true inspiration/revelation!

I too have been blessed with wanting to know. Truth, all truth, nothing but. To understand what it is God is doing, and how, but most importantly why.
   He is awesome! He is convincing all. Truth knocks our socks off!
:gsmile: