Tidbits of Jugghead

[jugghead]

I have no idea how much of what I speak here about "the heart" and "the mind" makes sense to people, and if some may think I am off my rocker, but to understand what takes place inside of us between the two .....

The reason I am saying this here now is because of what is being talked about in the thread "Matthew 10:33" with the word "contradict" making more sense and in what I came to understand that "reason" (or the ability to reason) is "a candlestick"

The statement that was brought to mind is: Reason is the candlestick that holds the light of understanding

If what is in our heart contradicts what is in our mind we know we have conflict within ourselves, what I mean by this is:

if grace is in the heart, and the mind agrees with "grace for me" there is no contradiction between the heart and mind
but then change the word "me" to "some of mankind"
if grace is in the heart, and the mind agrees with "grace for some of mankind" there is no contradiction between the hearts and minds of "some of mankind" in which this is what they see as the end result of some of mankind, they see a split end for mankind

now the flip side of the coin ...... the contradiction is in what we see, what we understand (see = understand)

if grace is in the heart, and the mind agrees with "grace for me" there is no contradiction between the heart and mind
but then change the word "me" to "all of mankind"
if grace is in the heart, and the mind agrees with "grace for all of mankind" again there is no contradiction between the hearts and minds of "all of mankind" in which this is what we see as the end result for all of mankind, we see one end for mankind

the contradiction is always between the heart of one and the mind of another, and if we see and understand the concept of:

Christ is "the heart" of the Father
and
The Father is "the mind" of Christ

The Father, the mind of Christ is "our voice of reason", the candlestick which holds the light of understanding and if that "voice of reason" is removed ... a heart of "grace for all of mankind" dies and it is once again subject to its old ways of "grace for some of mankind"

we keep trying to plant the seed of "grace for all" into the hearts of many, but it is always contradicted by those whose candlestick (voice of reason) was removed, and if the candlestick is removed it cannot produce the light of understanding and therefore remains in darkness (remains in a lack of understanding).

and by this we know, unless they repent (think differently) they shall die in their missing of the mark (die in their sin) and it all can come down to one verse, "with God (a Heart and Mind as One/A Father and a Son as One) all things are possible"

To not believe in "grace for all of mankind" is to contradict the verse that says "with God, all things are possible" and God becomes their adversary, but they cannot win against God and we have been given this understanding early, earlier than others.

What I see happening in this world in the manifestation of the Sons of God are those who seek the truth on their own rather then continue to follow man in what "he thinks" the truth is

for we need to leave man's "voice of reason" and hear God's "Voice of Reason" of which we have been given in Christ

[marie glen]

Very interesting Jh!

I have no idea how much of what I speak here about "the heart" and "the mind" makes sense to people, and if some may think I am off my rocker, but to understand what takes place inside of us between the two .....

The reason I am saying this here now is because of what is being talked about in the thread "Matthew 10:33" with the word "contradict" making more sense and in what I came to understand that "reason" (or the ability to reason) is "a candlestick"

    :idea2: I like that! It makes a lot of sense to me..

The statement that was brought to mind is: Reason is the candlestick that holds the light of understanding

:sohappy:

If what is in our heart contradicts what is in our mind we know we have conflict within ourselves, what I mean by this is:

if grace is in the heart, and the mind agrees with "grace for me" there is no contradiction between the heart and mind
but then change the word "me" to "some of mankind"
if grace is in the heart, and the mind agrees with "grace for some of mankind" there is no contradiction between the hearts and minds of "some of mankind" in which this is what they see as the end result of some of mankind, they see a split end for mankind

now the flip side of the coin ...... the contradiction is in what we see, what we understand (see = understand)

if grace is in the heart, and the mind agrees with "grace for me" there is no contradiction between the heart and mind
but then change the word "me" to "all of mankind"
if grace is in the heart, and the mind agrees with "grace for all of mankind" again there is no contradiction between the hearts and minds of "all of mankind" in which this is what we see as the end result for all of mankind, we see one end for mankind

the contradiction is always between the heart of one and the mind of another, and if we see and understand the concept of:

Christ is "the heart" of the Father
and
The Father is "the mind" of Christ

  :idea2: :sohappy: Amen!

The Father, the mind of Christ is "our voice of reason", the candlestick which holds the light of understanding and if that "voice of reason" is removed ... a heart of "grace for all of mankind" dies and it is once again subject to its old ways of "grace for some of mankind"

we keep trying to plant the seed of "grace for all" into the hearts of many, but it is always contradicted by those whose candlestick (voice of reason) was removed, and if the candlestick is removed it cannot produce the light of understanding and therefore remains in darkness (remains in a lack of understanding).

God bless 'em.. truly.. but it's sorta sad when folks defend 'hell'.. or that is, very sad.. I feel very blessed to not believe it.. And the longer one doesn't buy into it, the more outrageous the whole idea is. Darkness, not light.

To not believe in "grace for all of mankind" is to contradict the verse that says "with God, all things are possible" and God becomes their adversary, but they cannot win against God and we have been given this understanding early, earlier than others.

What I see happening in this world in the manifestation of the Sons of God are those who seek the truth on their own rather then continue to follow man in what "he thinks" the truth is

for we need to leave man's "voice of reason" and hear God's "Voice of Reason" of which we have been given in Christ

That's very interesting Jugghead. Something kind of like it, and also in Revelation is the sealing of the foreheads of believers in chapter 7. I think it's a common view that the sealing in only pon the foreheads of the 144,000 of Israel. But there's also a "great crowd from every tribe and nation, etc, *too many to be numbered*". Who are these? They're not, I don't believe, the 144,000 of the tribes of Israel because that group is numbered, but the 'second' group is too great to number.

Do you think He plays hide and seek with truth in His word?

That seal on the forehead, I have always thought of as clarity.. no more false belief. And maybe no one will have it perfectly until His return.. But there it is again, the mind and the heart. The seal on the heart that cries abba Father.. And (hopefully?) increasing clarity of mind..? (This also makes me keep a 'suspicious' mind of what is the forehead title mystery babylon, that it being a title, on the forehead..? I think of it as all untruth. The label. In case we had any doubts.. :laughing7: )

..candlesticks.. reason..

    Amen!!

[eaglesway]

Christ is "the heart" of the Father
and
The Father is "the mind" of Christ

Beautiful in simplicity but so powerfully true.

I think it is good to consider what it is the eye recognizes "in the light". Only that which is "real" can be seen in the light. That which is not "real" is in the mind- a reflection of ones own imagination. This why Jesus says, "If the light that is in you is darkness how great is that darkness" and "Because you say you see your sin remains(abides, continues). If you wer blind you would have no sin. Therefore become blind that you may see".

So we have power to tear down strongholds and imaginations that exalt themselves against the true knowledge of God- weapons of righteousness in the right hand and the left. Weapons of righteousness are things like "speaking the truth in love" and "If you find a brother in a fault restore such a one in a spirit of meekness considering your own self lest you stumble" and "The servant of the Lord must not strive, but be gentle, patiently instructing those who oppose themselves so they can escape the snare of the devil".

So we must be "well instructed" by the Holy Spirit in the truth of the word and in the spirit of reconciliation in order to hold the candlestick that will truly shine upon "what is"(I am that I am) and bring hidden things to light.

The hidden things("I speak mysteries in parables, things hidden from the foundation of the wrld") can only be brought to light by those who walk in humility, not priding on what they know, but rather exulting in what saves and transforms and reveals -opening the eyes of the blind.

"The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
    because he has anointed me
    to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
    and recovery of sight for the blind,
to set the oppressed free,
    to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."

[rosered]

Amen  :dsunny: :HeartThrob:

Thanks  for bring this back up   John , I had no time to comment the other day  when Rick  made this post.

Come  let us reason together Isaiah 1:18 (NASB)
"Let Us Reason"
18 "Come now, and let us reason together,"
Says the Lord,
"Though your sins are as scarlet,
They will be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson,
They will be like wool.

From the transformation of Adam / Edom ''red clay ''  to the white woolen  sheep that hear His voice , the   Lamb of God and mind of Christ  ,, I love how you express things Jugg !and how the scriptures connect !!

and John  Amen
Luke 8 The Lesson of the Lamp

...17For there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed, and nothing concealed that will not be known and illuminated.

18 Pay attention, therefore, to how you listen.

Whoever has will be given more, but whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has will be taken away from him."

sure makes  much more  sense when we consider the Lord first  in our thoughts ..

We are to be careful how we handle the Word of Life , with love and great care towards  one another and before God  <3 ..



Amen Marie , I thought of the same thing  the seal of God upon  the foreheads   and seal upon their hearts in the  songs of Solomon   8 ; 6 Place me like a seal over your heart, like a seal on your arm. For love is as strong as death, its jealousy as enduring as the grave. Love flashes like fire, the brightest kind of flame.


Revelation 14:1 ...'And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.'

we are sealed with THE FATHER'S name and that we are sealed IN our foreheads.  Who is the Father?

Praying to the Father, Jesus said ...John 17:3 ...'And this is eternal life, that they may know thee, THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.'

1 Corinthians 8:6 ...'But to us there is but ONE GOD, THE FATHER, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.'

2 John 1:3 ...'Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from GOD THE FATHER, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.'

:dsunny: :HeartThrob:

[sheila]

the'seal'onGod's Word"is of the Authority and Governement and Kingdom.144,00 is the adminstrative Gov..12 etc.and denotes authority

  the Worthy Lamb...Christ can open the seals..and showus the mind of the Father and His heart.....those markedby the man with

the inkhorn.......grieving over all that isbeing done/said in the supposedly 'name' ofGod ..willhave Hisname in their forehead.There

bethings being said unworthy of God..andHischarcter/nature..bypeople/man who interpret their owndark imagnations/hell/greeksetc.


  a new song/a new name/a new spirit..beauty for ashes

[sheila]

I know some of the Lyricsof the new song..butIcan't perfectly SINGit/you can notsing the songsof Zion in aforeign land[Psalms 137;3]

here are some of the Lyrics that allwillbesinging.......joyofsalvation/freedom/deliverance//victory/homecoming...andPRAISe

1.Mankind has no sin because the Lordtookthem allaway.John 1;29

2 Father sentJesusto atone[John 17;20-23]for all humankind by His blood[53;4-12]

and another..God sent Jesus to reconcile the world of humaninty notimputing tresspass untothem[Ps 32;1-2,2 Cor 5;18,19]

...those arejust afewofthe lyrics[Rev 14;2 lyre/harp]

[jugghead]

The Good News is in Christ
   That all will be made alive

The Good News is in Christ
   This veil of flesh must die

The Good News is the Beginning
    His workmanship in us

The Good News is the End
     Finishing His work He must

The Good News is the Truth
   The Truth that sets you free

The Good News is the Life
   The Life that will always be

The Good News is the Cross
    The flesh that was so frail

The Good News is His Love
    A Love that cannot fail

[rosered]

The Good News is in Christ
   That all will be made alive

The Good News is in Christ
   This veil of flesh must die

The Good News is the Beginning
    His workmanship in us

The Good News is the End
     Finishing His work He must

The Good News is the Truth
   The Truth that sets you free

The Good News is the Life
   The Life that will always be

The Good News is the Cross
    The flesh that was so frail

The Good News is His Love
    A Love that cannot fail

:HeartThrob:   :banana:   :dsunny:  Amen !!!!!!!!!!

[marie glen]

Amen! Very nice! ..And so true! :cloud9:

[sheila]

I loved your post Jugghead...........Heaven desires sons of understanding. we must Love God with all the mind all the heart.and our fellowman as ourselves.

[jugghead]

 :2c:
When we rely on our own understanding (or man's understanding of God) and we truly believe that what we understand is of God.

then God Himself becomes our adversary, He becomes Satan (the accuser) to us, He becomes the devil (the traducer) to us, and when we hear His voice ..... we believe we are being tempted to be led astray when in fact He is trying to set us free ..... and the biggest thing about it is ..... we do not even know that is what is happening

How do I know this? Because I myself experienced it early in my walk when I listened to man's understanding of God rather than finding out for myself, but even that could not have taken place until God Himself placed in me "His hunger" for me to know the truth and continue to walk the path that was chosen for me rather than stopping at the walls of man

"they honor Me with their lips but their heart is far from Me"

Since I believe that Christ Himself is "the Heart" of The Father then by default "the heart" of man becomes the "anti-Christ"

Doctrines of men are bricks in the wall of the prison cell we can build around ourselves and our own mind can believe it is God protecting us from going astray
:2c:

[rosered]

:2c:
When we rely on our own understanding (or man's understanding of God) and we truly believe that what we understand is of God.

then God Himself becomes our adversary, He becomes Satan (the accuser) to us, He becomes the devil (the traducer) to us, and when we hear His voice ..... we believe we are being tempted to be led astray when in fact He is trying to set us free ..... and the biggest thing about it is ..... we do not even know that is what is happening

How do I know this? Because I myself experienced it early in my walk when I listened to man's understanding of God rather than finding out for myself, but even that could not have taken place until God Himself placed in me "His hunger" for me to know the truth and continue to walk the path that was chosen for me rather than stopping at the walls of man

"they honor Me with their lips but their heart is far from Me"

Since I believe that Christ Himself is "the Heart" of The Father then by default "the heart" of man becomes the "anti-Christ"

Doctrines of men are bricks in the wall of the prison cell we can build around ourselves and our own mind can believe it is God protecting us from going astray
:2c:

     I have considered the same things bro  when reading Deut 28 though 32   chapters    we can see how the rebellious  spirit in a man can and does become  adversarial against God   though Disobedience

  when Satan  is divided against  satan

A House Divided
...17But Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be laid waste, and a house divided against a house will fall. 18If Satan is divided against himself, how can his kingdom stand? After all, you say that I drive out demons by Beelzebul. 19And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your sons drive them out? So then, they will be your judges....

"Away from me, Satan!" Jesus declared. "For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve Him only.'"

Matthew 4:24
News about Him spread all over Syria, and people brought to Him all who were ill with various diseases, those suffering acute pain, the demon-possessed, those having seizures, and the paralyzed--and He healed them.

Matthew 10:25
It is enough for a disciple to be like his teacher, and a servant like his master. If the head of the house has been called Beelzebul, how much more the members of his household!

26So do not be afraid of them. For nothing is concealed that will not be uncovered, or hidden that will not be made known. 27What I tell you in the dark, speak in the light; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the housetops.

28Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in judgment a punishment called "Gehenna" or "Gehenna of fire".

  A testing  /Touchstone  against the  Word of truth  by the Sprint  of Truth   , our two witnesses    in everything     sworn in a oath
  of heaven  and of earth and below .

I do believe any evil  must be  destroyed by fire  baptism  [  the purification process ] .
  GOD is a consuming fire .

DEFINITION of 'Baptism by Fire' A phrase originating from Europe that describes an employee that is learning something the hard way, like being immersed in their field of employment.

Baptism by fire has its roots in battle terminology, describing a soldier's first time in battle.   

I thought of     the encounter on the road to Emmaus and the supper at Emmaus, and states that a disciple named Cleopas was walking towards Emmaus with another disciple when they met Jesus. They did not recognize him, and discussed their sadness at recent events with him.  but they recognized him when   their hearts started burning within them   [cleansing   purity ]     so the  seals of the book was opened to Know it was Jesus     walking with them 
  and the battle down the road    with the forces of good and evil , to over come evil with GOOD / GOD     THE GOOD NEWS OF THE GOSPEL   OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST ...        THE LIVING WORD  IN POWER BY THE LIVING GOD / SPIRIT   

We really cannot judge anything before the time when the Lord comes and brings it to Light  ,   than will we know  as we ought . until than we wait on the Lord to Come     :dsunny:  come Lord Come      :HeartThrob: 

  rev22 Nothing May Be Added
...19And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

20He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus! 21The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all the saints. Amen....
  :dsunny:

[jugghead]

MY BELIEFS

I'm convinced that after we have thought the very best thoughts about God, we can be sure that He is even better than that because He is able to do above what we can even think, Ephesians 3:20. And IMHO I cannot think any higher thoughts than universal transformation.

I completely agree with this POV

I believe that after our resurrection from the dead God will eventually somehow transform every second of everyone's suffering into something better that it happened.
That includes both the unexplained and seemingly unjustifiable suffering that we all experience in varying degrees, as well as what the Bible calls "kolasis aionion" which means age-during corrective chastisement that everyone who needs it will experience.

I believe that God will eventually fit every unique individual into His master plan in a positive way that necessitates their unique temporary involvement in evil and suffering that will enable God to manifest, and glorify, and magnify the many facets of His character in a way that uniquely involves that person, and everyone else involved in that person's life too.
Then, after God has finished using evil and suffering for the reasons why He allowed them to temporarily exist, He will eradicate them from existence.

I believe that God has both the ability and the intention to save all fallen creatures from everything from which they need to be saved, and He will not fail to do so.

I believe that God's determination, within the wise counsel of His DECRETIVE will which is that which MUST occur, to eventually rid all of creation from suffering, will in every case, overcome the strongest will that is temporarily opposed to God's PRECEPTIVE will which is what His creatures OUGHT to do, e.g. THE GOLDEN RULE.

All evil eventually leads to good, however, God is the only One Who can do this. He created evil (Isaiah 45:7), to provide the contrast for good. When all good is revealed, then evil will be abolished from God's universe—forever.
THE PURPOSE OF EVIL – A.P. Adams (GOOD EXPOSITION)
http://thegloryrd.com:80/apadams/evil.html

What comes to mind with this is Romans 8:28, "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God", because would not "evil" be considered in the term "all things"? I believe so. And because it also says "to them that love God", can we sincerely say we love God if we do not believe "that all things work together for good"? I do not believe so.

This verse in itself is a general statement in that it uses the term "all things", it is when we get into specifics that this understanding can become clouded. But if there is one thing I have learned about general statements and then getting into specifics is in how lawyers work. What I mean by that is: a lawyer can take a subject that is in a general sense, bring up a specific incident that fits into that general sense and when he is able to discredit the testimony of that one specific incident, it throws doubt on the rest of the testimony thereby making it possible to discredit everything else that was said.

For example: a specific incident about a child being murdered and what good can come of that .... because we may not see the good that can come from that incident, it can easily throw doubt on the verse "all things work together for good" and to discredit one verse in the Bible makes it much easier to discredit others along the way.

So take note Sons and Daughters, if specifics are brought up when you are speaking in general terms, know how these lawyers (so-called) work in trying to discredit your whole testimony with one specific incident that you may not see the good that can come from it because they do not see any good in it at all, other wise they would not try to discredit it.

I believe the only mistake that I am probably making is in grossly underestimating just how gloriously God will achieve this universal transformation through what Christ accomplished for everyone by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of his cross.
That is the kind of God that I see in the Bible.

Realizing that he is including everyone without exception, the following quote by Christian universalist Dr. Leslie Weatherhead nicely sums up what I believe. I've had it memorized for many years and love to quote it frequently.

"God's purposes are so vast and glorious, beyond all guessing now, that when they are achieved and consummated, all our sufferings and sorrows of today, even the agonies that nearly break our faith, the disasters that well nigh overwhelm us, shall, seen from that fair country where God's age long dreams come true, bulk as little as bulk now the pieces of a broken toy upon a nursery floor, over which, thinking that all our little world was in ruins, we cried ourselves to sleep."

THE COROLLARY TO MY BELIEFS

For me the corollary to my belief in universal transformation is just as important as the belief itself.
The corollary is that when the chips are down and I am overwhelmed by life's negatives to the point where I can't make my wonderful theology work for me in a practical way, yet even that sorry state of affairs is something that God will eventually transform into something better for me that it temporarily prevailed.

As I said in the other thread, Well said RT, and again, I could not agree more with "grossly underestimating just how gloriously God will achieve this universal transformation through what Christ accomplished for everyone by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of His cross", for God to change our perspective to be able to see through His eyes is more wondrous than any words can describe, it is beyond any understanding of men ..... it is a peace and understanding that surpasses even the greatest thing we can think of.

And what came to mind with the words "realizing that He is including everyone without exception" are

2 Timothy 2:20-21 ... "but in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honor and some to dishonor, if a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honor, sanctified, and meet for the master's use and prepared unto every good work" and

Romans 9:20-21 ... "Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why has thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor and another unto dishonor?"

If an evil man, a vessel of dishonor, as seen through the eyes of men, did exactly what he was designed by God to do, would not that vessel be a vessel of honor through the eyes of God if he did exactly what he was suppose to? Would not God also say to him "well done good and faithful servant" if he did exactly what he was suppose to, despite the fact that he is viewed by men as a vessel of dishonor?

Do we not see this in the Judas? Who are we to judge what God designed that vessel to accomplished to bring about the good He has purposed in another?

To see and understand that "all things" are used by God to bring about HIS purpose is to stop seeing others in the flesh, to stop seeing others as unclean "through our own eyes' and understand what God has declared as clean "seeing them through His eyes".

If others have a hard time accepting this understanding, the only thing left for me to say is this ... it is by this understanding that I can find the compassion in my own heart to forgive them for what they do not know they are doing, and by it I am able to love them in the way my heavenly Father loves them, knowing that they too will be purged of what they were formed to be to fulfill God's purposes for good in this temporary physical existence.

It is only by this understanding that I can love my enemies and follow in the footsteps of Christ and die to all judgment in the flesh and forgive through the Spirit.

My  :2c:, but I hope and pray that it is worth more to others

[darryl]

:2c:
When we rely on our own understanding (or man's understanding of God) and we truly believe that what we understand is of God.

then God Himself becomes our adversary, He becomes Satan (the accuser) to us, He becomes the devil (the traducer) to us, and when we hear His voice ..... we believe we are being tempted to be led astray when in fact He is trying to set us free ..... and the biggest thing about it is ..... we do not even know that is what is happening

How do I know this? Because I myself experienced it early in my walk when I listened to man's understanding of God rather than finding out for myself, but even that could not have taken place until God Himself placed in me "His hunger" for me to know the truth and continue to walk the path that was chosen for me rather than stopping at the walls of man

"they honor Me with their lips but their heart is far from Me"

Since I believe that Christ Himself is "the Heart" of The Father then by default "the heart" of man becomes the "anti-Christ"

Doctrines of men are bricks in the wall of the prison cell we can build around ourselves and our own mind can believe it is God protecting us from going astray
:2c:

Amen...many 'hellists' end up seeing God as an adversary...deep down.......they believe He will maybe send them to hell if they fall or He will send their loved ones to hell.....they think He's waiting there for them to mess up....how different to the Freedom of Reconcilianists !

[sheila]

Rev 2;16...change of mind needed..when we find ourselves..in this adversarial position.I will come to you and war with you with the sword of my mouth.

re; vessels of unclean use...do not condemn a servant unto his master ...and; God will show mercy unto him as a son that has served Him.unable to tell a servant

from son at a certain'stage'of developement....heir=ALL THINGS ARE YOURS..servant does not always remain in the household[temporal corrupt image] :2c:

[jugghead]

Got a question for you guys and gals, it has crossed my mind to start going back to church, mainly to get into the Bible studies to get others to think about what "His written word" is actually saying by planting seeds.

the only problem that I see coming up is, sitting through sermons of someone who believes in ET and when I hear an untruth sitting quietly and saying nothing, to me that would be the hardest thing. I don't know if I could do that without getting upset or angry.

I see that some here still go to church while believing in UR and I see that some do not go to church, I myself prefer not to have those distractions that would cause me anger, so that's why I avoid church, but my question is:

How do those of you who go to church while believing in UR deal with the untruths you hear during sermons?

even if you don't go to church would like your input also.

Because the one thing that always remains in the back of my mind is: there was one time when I was going to church (at the beginning of my walk) and I fully believed in the ET doctrines, I got up in the middle of the sermon and walked out because I had the most overwhelming feeling that "I didn't belong here"

The only thing I can see in it, is that, a weakness can be turned into a strength in that, when I heard an untruth it would cause me to search out the matter, but I also remember doing that in the beginning to try to prove them wrong in my own pride.

all comments are welcome

Blessings

[jugghead]

Speaking has no purpose if it is not heard

Hearing has no purpose if what is spoken it is not listened to

Listening has no purpose if what is heard is not considered

Considering has no purpose if it is not tried (tested)

Trying (testing) has no purpose if it does not reveal

Revealing has no purpose if it is not believed

Believing has no purpose if it does not cause an increase

Therefore "I take every thought captive in obedience to Christ"  and consider it

and if what I heard spoken does not cause an increase of love (Love) in me towards others, what use is it?

[sheila]

I don't go to the churches,Rick.though I have considered it.come out ofher,my people.You know when you listen to a song..and hear it again and again..andbefore you

knowit..your singing right along?I reckon that those seeking Him ,and those whom He choose, have  Holy spirit to help lead them out also. Knock,seek. They are under grace

and water seeks it's own level. :2c:

[sheila]

Numbers 26;57

gershonites, kohaths and merari. Some served with dealing with basic frame-work of worship..literal water baptisms/literal bread wafer etc. a mirrored symbolism.[cloths

over Holy things hiding from view]in regard to the tabernacle/Tent of  meeting

some at a different level can see greater spiritual truths in the parables/teachings,acts......and others are more involved with Most Holy. :2c:

[rosered]

I don't go to the churches,Rick.though I have considered it.come out ofher,my people.You know when you listen to a song..and hear it again and again..andbefore you

knowit..your singing right along?I reckon that those seeking Him ,and those whom He choose, have  Holy spirit to help lead them out also. Knock,seek. They are under grace

and water seeks it's own level. :2c:

Amen sis  :iagree:

  I have too considered it , but  never felt led to ,  But to each his own .  God knows , If you are telling the Truth and they do not believe  it .

   I recall stumbling   a few  so badly , Just by simply saying , God is perfect Love and will save everyone  each in their own order  , 

  now that anything I say is totally ignored and considered  cursed    and also do not quote scripture  to them any more    :sigh:  cut off  entirely. and despised .

  That I am super deceived and misguided  by their standards [judging by  the weak flesh and not the Spirit of Life ] , But in my heart I know God will   deliver His creation  perfectly .

  Our  relationships  are strained and it is hard to live among   such oppressions   and judgments    .
Even my own husband has taken a lot longer to grow in truth and grace  because of it .

  Not everyone can handle the truth  with respect  and certainly not with honor  to the FATHER , Like Jesus   proved   can be done .
 
  Healing the sick and afflicted     and poor   in spirit  is a   whole lot more costly  than just saying it   . you do have to give up  your life in the world  as you knew it before    . 30 years of this  divisions .

  Now after    knowing what I do , I would have never   snared them so swiftly   with  such a  brutal truth  , that they were not prepared by God first  to receive ..
  Yet they believe in God ...

It is true sis water seeks its own level   and  when it is mixed with mud and  miry clay  ,  the only way to go is up from there .

Let God be true and everyman a liar   in the sense of this , I too ,  held the same  beastly  dragons flood spewing out of my mouth ,  while appearing as a lamb . But God knows the heart  .

  God knows how to deliver    His own  creation   sometimes suffering is the only way to learn righteousness  in the earth. 


  2 peter 2 9if all this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment.

10Such punishment is specially reserved for those who indulge the corrupt desires of the flesh and despise authority.

Bold and self-willed, these men are unafraid to slander angelic majesties.

11Yet not even angels, though greater in strength and power, dare to bring such slanderous charges against them before the Lord.   

12 These men are like irrational animals, creatures of instinct, born to be captured and destroyed. They blaspheme in matters they do not understand, and like such creatures, they too will be destroyed.
13The harm they will suffer is the wages of their wickedness.

I really do not think anyone  gets away  scott -free      while   Gods  wrath for the moment    is in effect  in the earth ,  we learn    from disobedience  from examples    and  very well lessons learned  the hard way .

  As sis  has always upheld    , Learn you will , the easy way or hard way   , but you will lean  obedience  one way or the other .

But we trust His mercy endures always and we  wait  patiently for this to become    His truth made known  to all.

We love the true and living God because He first loved us  while we  were   yet sinners , Christ died for us  and saved us by His grace /blood poured out upon all  his creation  , as sin abounds His grace /blood / Spirit of  life abounds the more     , Jesus  knew before He  came what a    shame    that hour  of trial  would bring   and  rightly despised it  , as we all should    knowing what we do now .

  For this hour I have come  ......... John 12 ...

26If anyone serves Me, he must follow Me; and where I am, My servant will be as well.


If anyone serves Me, the Father will honor him.

27Now My soul is troubled, and what shall I say? 'Father, save Me from this hour'? No, it is for this purpose that I have come to this hour.

28 Father, glorify Your name!" Then a voice came from heaven: "I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again."...

All power and glory  will be done in the Word of Life by the Spirit of Life   given to everyone  as they are made new in Christ

[sheila]

 :thumbsup: Rose 2Peter 2; 7-11...I thought of how the demon"s on the  possessed men wanted to sodomize the Lord's angels in that scripture account.whenthey

come to deliver Lot :2c:

[sheila]

..it also brought to my mind the account when a hoard sodomized ambassador Stevens..a few years back. :2c:

[sheila]

ps Rose..it seems to me it's more like they have fallen over a lie as a stumbling-block..not you declaring the TRUTH....stumble the stumbled?or the truthofGod causing

them to get back up.only truth can stand us up. allthevirgins[churches]slept....but some took extra oil along in vessels with them. :2c:

[rosered]

ps Rose..it seems to me it's more like they have fallen over a lie as a stumbling-block..not you declaring the TRUTH....stumble the stumbled?or the truthofGod causing

them to get back up.only truth can stand us up. allthevirgins[churches]slept....but some took extra oil along in vessels with them. :2c:

  I was thinking of that sis , locked us all up in disobedience  so having  mercy on us  all  :HeartThrob:

  Romans 11 ...31so they too have now disobeyed, in order that they too may now receive mercy through the mercy shown to you.

32For God has consigned all men to disobedience, so that He may have mercy on them all.


33O, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable His judgments, and untraceable His ways!...

  a mystery revealed  :dsunny:

[marie glen]

I decided not to go to church years ago. I didn't find the Lord in church, so there wasn't that. But what little mingling I did with fellow believers, I was picking up mixed signals. The Lord's Spirit was ministering to me, "love". But from His people and church I was getting more of a "be of a stern countenance so they know they are sinners" - which I guess is "the law" operating as "the way" or mixed in with "the way".

So rather than have the struggle I dropped out. Being a teen in the 70's (came to the Lord in 79) dropping out wasn't hard. Besides I'm very much a sort of 'monastic' person. I love to seek Him in the Quietness. And without the struggle of what to believe and not believe.. I chose the bible. And I'm very happy I did!

But now that I am a lot firmer in being aware of what the bible says, I think it would be a lot easier to affiliate with a church.. But hopefully one that seldom if ever mentions 'eternal torment' or hell.. And it would definitely have to be a bible based group. A home group would maybe be best?

I've wondered if the Lord may, once life slows down a bit more(?) lead me to more active participation
with believers (face to face that is) :gsmile: (Or not..!)

Numbers 26;57

gershonites, kohaths and merari. Some served with dealing with basic frame-work of worship..literal water baptisms/literal bread wafer etc. a mirrored symbolism.[cloths

over Holy things hiding from view]in regard to the tabernacle/Tent of  meeting

some at a different level can see greater spiritual truths in the parables/teachings,acts......and others are more involved with Most Holy. :2c:

     :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

  I have too considered it , but  never felt led to ,  But to each his own .

Amen Rose.. and loved your post :HeartThrob: :girlheart: