Each generation is but a step forward for mankind
The importance is not on the length of the step but on the constant walk
Quote from: jugghead on December 10, 2017, 07:24:11 AM
Each generation is but a step forward for mankind
:thumbsup: :Peace2: ..hopefully forward! ..Both I guess.. two fruits maturing.. the wheat and the grapes of wrath-and but for the grace of God there go any one of us..
Quote from: jugghead on December 10, 2017, 07:24:11 AM
The importance is not on the length of the step but on the constant walk
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: Amen!
"To him be glory in the assembly in Christ Jesus unto all generations of the age of ages. Amen" Eph 3:21, Darby
We are set in our generation to hold the torch. God is at times tearing down, at other times rebuilding. Chaos breaks up the fallow ground in preparation for the latter rains. The faithful husbandman waits patiently ove the earth fo the sprout, the stalk, the full ear, the harvest....."
In the beginning the earth was without form and void, and darkness covered the face of the deep, and the Spirit hovered over the waters and God said, "Let there be light and the light was separated from the darkness......
The process continues for all mankind, and it is the gospel of Jesus Christ that destroys the works of the devil(division) untill every thought is taken captive to the glorious liberty of the children of God- LOVE! LIGHT! LIFE!
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law (1Corinthians 15:56)
The law is the power of sin ..... so what is sin? to sin is to "miss the mark" and what is the mark that is missed? The mark that is missed is sin itself. it has to do with the direction the law is aimed at.
The righteous direct the law inward on their own sins to put them to death (not missing the mark)
The unrighteous direct the law outward on the sins of others to put them to death (missing the mark of their own sin of accusing {the log in the eye})
"To accuse" another is the sting of death ..... to bring another under the law
To fall from grace is to eat of the knowledge of good and evil (law) and then become the accuser who accuses another.
The accuser "accuses" to kill another; to cause the death of another ...... to place "the law" of God above "the Love/Grace" of God is to see the abomination of desolation sitting on the throne (authority) of the heart using the law unrighteously.
In other words; the carnal mind sits in authority over the heart of grace locked up as a prisoner, and when God removes the veil, opens the door, rolls the stone away from the heart of stone (heart of law), there is no stopping Christ from renewing the mind as to ... in what direction the law is to be pointed.
What is one of the things we are being saved from, "our unrighteous use of the law"
Quote"To him be glory in the assembly in Christ Jesus unto all generations of the age of ages. Amen" Eph 3:21, Darby
We are set in our generation to hold the torch. God is at times tearing down, at other times rebuilding. Chaos breaks up the fallow ground in preparation for the latter rains. The faithful husbandman waits patiently ove the earth fo the sprout, the stalk, the full ear, the harvest....."
In the beginning the earth was without form and void, and darkness covered the face of the deep, and the Spirit hovered over the waters and God said, "Let there be light and the light was separated from the darkness......
The process continues for all mankind, and it is the gospel of Jesus Christ that destroys the works of the devil(division) untill every thought is taken captive to the glorious liberty of the children of God- LOVE! LIGHT! LIFE!
QuoteThe sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law (1Corinthians 15:56)
The law is the power of sin ..... so what is sin? to sin is to "miss the mark" and what is the mark that is missed? The mark that is missed is sin itself. it has to do with the direction the law is aimed at.
The righteous direct the law inward on their own sins to put them to death (not missing the mark)
The unrighteous direct the law outward on the sins of others to put them to death (missing the mark of their own sin of accusing {the log in the eye})
"To accuse" another is the sting of death ..... to bring another under the law
To fall from grace is to eat of the knowledge of good and evil (law) and then become the accuser who accuses another.
The accuser "accuses" to kill another; to cause the death of another ...... to place "the law" of God above "the Love/Grace" of God is to see the abomination of desolation sitting on the throne (authority) of the heart using the law unrighteously.
In other words; the carnal mind sits in authority over the heart of grace locked up as a prisoner, and when God removes the veil, opens the door, rolls the stone away from the heart of stone (heart of law), there is no stopping Christ from renewing the mind as to ... in what direction the law is to be pointed.
What is one of the things we are being saved from, "our unrighteous use of the law"
AMEN! :dsunny: :HeartThrob:
I didn't want to hijack the thread of Simmo "with God all things are possible" so I wanted to post my thank you's to Patinak (Pat) and MusicLover123 (Connor) here .....
I very much appreciate your comments on the things I write, many seeds are sown but God causes the growth, and to witness a harvest brings me so much joy.
To Pat I would like to say, twice (just lately) you have given me encouragement by your responses to what I have written, to see into the heart of a person is to recognize the source.
And to Connor, I would like to say, the verse that popped into your head, the pearl that was shown to me was "compassion" ..... it is where my journey started a little over 12 years ago.
And also to the rest that constantly respond positively to the things I write, I have known many of you for years and have not thanked you guys, but I know that thanks from another is not what we seek, we say these things from the heart and that is what pleases our Lord, to please Him and give Him the glory is to not miss the mark.
So, I thank our Lord for all of you, for You sow and water the seed through all of us and I have seen His growth in us, for we are His body that is incorruptible Love.
We are loved , God Himself has proven this over and over again to us , and encourage one another with the WORDS OF LIFE , speaking in our ears from our hearts being on fire for God .
I love knowing you all by the Holy Spirit & life , the less knowing you by the flesh, the better :laughing7:
Love to you all :dsunny: :HeartThrob:
2 Cor 5 Ambassadors for Christ
...15And He died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves,
but for Him who died for them and was raised again.
16So from now on we regard no one according to the flesh.
Although we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer.
17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.
The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come!... :HeartThrob: :dsunny:
What a wonderful promise of God to be purposed by Him , anointed in Christ and lit on fire for God , burning in our hearts , made new and like His nature though the eternal Spirit of Life presence itself huh ?!!! ...
a·noint
əˈnoint/Submit
verb
past tense: anointed; past participle: anointed
smear or rub with oil, typically as part of a religious ceremony.
"high priests were anointed with oil"
synonyms: consecrate, bless, ordain; formal hallow
"he was anointed and crowned"
smear or rub something with (any other substance).
"Cuna Indians anoint the tips of their arrows with poison"
ceremonially confer divine or holy office upon (a priest or monarch) by smearing or rubbing with oil.
"the Lord has anointed me to preach to the poor"
synonyms: consecrate, bless, ordain; formal hallow
"he was anointed and crowned"
To me the crown of life is the mind of Christ :dsunny:
I love this 1 Cor 2 Spiritual Wisdom
6Among the mature, however, we speak a message of wisdom—but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
7No, we speak of the mysterious and hidden wisdom of God, which He destined for our glory before time began.
8None of the rulers of this age understood it. For if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9Rather, as it is written:
"No eye has seen,
no ear has heard,
no heart has imagined,
what God has prepared for those who love Him."
10But God has revealed it to us by the Spirit.
The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
11For who among men knows the thoughts of man except his own spirit within him?
So too, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
12We have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
13And this is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14The natural man does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God.
For they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15The spiritual man judges all things, but he himself is not subject to anyone's judgment.
16"For who has known the mind of the Lord, so as to instruct Him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
Mind of Christ , His power & authority [Head ] is upon us gathered into the presence of the LIVING GOD :HeartThrob:
Hi Rose, it is an awesome thing to see the "passion" (a mature tree bearing fruit, one of many in our ever expanding garden) that has been given to us ... overflow like a fountain through the words you speak, for I recognize the source.
It would take more than a lifetime for us to convey what is in our hearts, for it is a continuous river flowing from the throne of He who sits upon it ... for who is better at explaining who Christ is than Christ Himself, in other words: who better is there to explain His Spirit given to us than the source of that Spirit "in which are all the fruit whose seed is in itself".
And it is not just having things explained to us but "an experiencing" of it, for that is the breath of God being breathed into it that brings it to life.
You are one of the Trees of Life in my garden from which I eat here and an overflowing Fountain of which I drink.
Blessings to all, for you are all Trees of Life and Fountains in my garden.
Quote from: jugghead on January 08, 2018, 08:24:35 PM
...a continuous river flowing from the throne of He who sits upon it ... for who is better at explaining who Christ is than Christ Himself, in other words: who better is there to explain His Spirit given to us than the source of that Spirit "in which are all the fruit whose seed is in itself".
Amen! His blueprint, what it is He is creating, is that His radiance (He) will shine through all..
..."
fountain.. trees of life.. garden.." :Chinscratch: God too, is a poet.. :cloud9:
Blessings brothers & sisters ,
I have to confess when the Lord Jesus Christ become , my center , things changed big time , everyone mattered !!
When my center was self , it was such a small and empty world and saw nothing from that view but many trees just passing though .
The saying you cannot see the Forrest for the trees , this was a real truth , the BIG picture and focus change
When you start asking and seeking and knocking , asking for Gods help , He does pour out such amazing grace! upon us !!
When Paul states "No eye has seen,
no ear has heard,
no heart has imagined,what God has prepared for those who love Him."
But God has revealed it to us by the Spirit.
Because the promise of BEING HEALED and made WHOLE !!giving us new eyes to see Him and ears to hear what the Spirit is saying and a heart to understand is given to us new creatures in Christ ...
Isaiah 6 8 Then I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send me!" 9 He said, "Go, and tell this people:
'Keep on listening, but do not perceive;
Keep on looking, but do not understand.'
10 "Render the hearts of this people insensitive,
Their ears dull,
And their eyes dim,
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
Hear with their ears,
Understand with their hearts,
And return and be healed."
11 Then I said, "Lord, how long?" And He answered,
"Until cities are devastated and without inhabitant,
Houses are without people
And the land is utterly desolate,
12 "The Lord has removed men far away,
And the forsaken places are many in the midst of the land.
13 "Yet there will be a tenth portion in it,
And it will again be subject to burning,
Like a terebinth or an oak
Whose stump remains when it is felled.
The holy seed is its stump."
I can see it really is about changing the trees of knowledge of good and evil brother to trees of Life , when the good is made perfect and complete in Him !! :dsunny:!
I no longer see the fire of Gods consuming as a bad thing , like so many are taught to fear God with any longer ,as the old is fading away but as part of the Change and healing made as GODS GLORIOUS WISDOM !!!
The scriptures BREATH Life into us by the HOLY SPIRIT working within us ..
Love being in the Spirit of Life and it does come much more often now than ever before and praise be to God for that grace
When it happens , it is as being Lifted up in the Spirit into a much higher realm of thoughts and peace and everything is beautiful and calm !!
But the times when the struggles begin , it is as if being lowered and dipped into death , where nothing but crying out to God for help will work , and have learned to do that now , more and more than try and fix things on my own , or carry them loads without His help in the hour of need , learning to LOVE without respecter of person and give freely what has been given to us so freely ,by drawing closer to Him and not running away from Him as times before , keeping everyone in our thoughts and prayers to Him .......
What a difference it has made!!!!!!!
I thank God for all the encouragement given though His mercy on us , for those whom help gather into Christ and be there for one another as God has called us to do and be , He truly is in our MIDST!!!!!!!!
So embracing His love at this time , Holy hugs to all ... :HeartThrob:
Just hoping to add this also Brother
I sure remember asking why???? ,to so many things .
When I am in the Spirit this place blesses me so much , but when I am carnal I cannot be blessed .
Some times though the Spirit moves when I begin to read and the blessings come , like rain on a dry land or thirsty plain .
hard hearted
adj.
Lacking in feeling or compassion; pitiless and cold,
because sin runs wild the love of many wax cold .
A hard heart is a protective coating to keep what you see and what you hear and what you understand as right .
As in my opinion at this time anyways till it be shattered and made a new ..a broken heart and contrite spirit will the Lord in no wise despise , somewhere in Psalms as I can remember it .
Jesus says this is why many are not changed nor healed because of hardness of heart ....
It is God whom changes us when we realize something is amiss and just not right within us , for me it was , God I am so poor in your Holy Spirit ,ugh , help please !If you do not help ,than there is no help to be found . this prayer :sigh:
A soft pliable heart can be changed and molded , shaped and worked with , by the water of Life freely ,
Lord blesses us all with new ears and eyes and heart to understand His perfect wisdom by the little's it comes by His grace ..
:HeartThrob:
If I am a book of life that Christ has opened, how many names of all the people who have ever lived will be written in my book?
"ALL OF THEM"
No comprendez :Chinscratch:
Quote from: eaglesway on January 10, 2018, 04:23:29 AM
No comprendez :Chinscratch:
Does that mean "I do not understand?" If so then I have to agree... :dunno:
Quote from: MusicLover123 on January 10, 2018, 08:17:33 AM
Quote from: eaglesway on January 10, 2018, 04:23:29 AM
No comprendez :Chinscratch:
Does that mean "I do not understand?" If so then I have to agree... :dunno:
Was this something said in my posts , I should clarify ?
If it is Juggs last post , I should let him clarify .
But thought he was referring to the scripture 2 Corn 3 That it is the Lords work to to give Life though the Spirit of Life and in turn bless others with the same Blessings God has opened up to us ...
1Are we beginning to commend ourselves again?
Or do we need, like some people, letters of recommendation to you or from you?
2You yourselves are our letter, inscribed on our hearts, known and read by everyone.
3It is clear that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink
but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.4Such confidence before God is ours through Christ.
5Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim that anything comes from us,
but our competence comes from God.
6And He has qualified us as ministers of a new covenant,
not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills,
but the Spirit gives life.
:2c: God is the BOOK OF LIFE...we are all but a 'page' inthis openbook.....ALL LIVE UNTO ME. so saysIAM.
because...I AM...you[ewe] live and YH[v]WH..when pronounced sounds like 'you" when Jesus said'whateveryehave doneto one
of these least ones whobelieve in me..ye the same have done unto me" He meant it. As Jesus identified himself inthis 'oneness"with
those who put faith in Him...so,too,God the Father .....with His whole creation...fornothing canordoeslive apart from HIM. Thus,
where it was said 'notmy people![I hidmy facebut amoment] itshall be said 'You are the sonsofthe living God!"
QuoteWas this something said in my posts , I should clarify ?
No worries, rosered. I think I understand you just fine. Thanks for clarifying though.
I was actually referring to Jugghead's quote here:
Quote from: jugghead on January 09, 2018, 09:48:37 PM
If I am a book of life that Christ has opened, how many names of all the people who have ever lived will be written in my book?
"ALL OF THEM"
If I understand correctly, are you saying the "Book of Life" records those who believe, and eventually all people will believe/have life, so all names will be written in it? Sort of what sheila says here:
Quote from: sheila on January 10, 2018, 05:52:50 PM
:2c: God is the BOOK OF LIFE...we are all but a 'page' inthis openbook.....ALL LIVE UNTO ME. so saysIAM.
because...I AM...you[ewe] live and YH[v]WH..when pronounced sounds like 'you" when Jesus said'whateveryehave doneto one
of these least ones whobelieve in me..ye the same have done unto me" He meant it. As Jesus identified himself inthis 'oneness"with
those who put faith in Him...so,too,God the Father .....with His whole creation...fornothing canordoeslive apart from HIM. Thus,
where it was said 'notmy people![I hidmy facebut amoment] itshall be said 'You are the sonsofthe living God!"
I may be wrong, but Romans
5:16-21 may relate here.
16and not as through one who did sin [is] the free gift, for the judgment indeed [is] of one to condemnation, but the gift [is] of many offences to a declaration of `Righteous,'17for if by the offence of the one the death did reign through the one, much more those, who the abundance of the grace and of the free gift of the righteousness are receiving, in life shall reign through the one--Jesus Christ.18So, then, as through one offence to all men [it is] to condemnation, so also through one declaration of `Righteous' [it is] to all men to justification of life;[/u]
19for as through the disobedience of the one man, the many were constituted sinners: so also through the obedience of the one, shall the many be constituted righteous.
20And law came in, that the offence might abound, and where the sin did abound, the grace did overabound,21that even as the sin did reign in the death, so also the grace may reign, through righteousness, to life age-during, through Jesus Christ our Lord.Notice verse 18 where all men receive the
"justification of life." This, I am thinking" has something to do with the Book if Life. If all receive Life, who wouldn't be in the Book of Life in the end?
Beautifully said Musiclover 123
:dsunny: :HeartThrob: Amen ! :banana:
Quote from: rosered on January 10, 2018, 08:33:33 PM
Beautifully said Musiclover 123
:dsunny: :HeartThrob: Amen ! :banana:
You too, rosered! Amen! :dsunny: :HeartThrob: :banana:
Quote from: jugghead on January 09, 2018, 09:48:37 PM
If I am a book of life that Christ has opened, how many names of all the people who have ever lived will be written in my book?
"ALL OF THEM"
Are not names written in the Book of Life?
Is not the forgiveness of sin the giving of life?
Are not we opened like a book to see inside?
In simple terms, it was a picture of who I am and also who we all are because of UR .... open me up (like a book) and you will see the names of everyone that I have forgiven in my heart: in my Book of Life ... for Christ is my new heart, my Book of Life
and yes to Rose, for she quoted Scripture to what I meant, even though, when I wrote it, that Scripture was not on my mind.
I was speaking from my heart and I apologize if it wasn't clear, I thought it was ..... there I go again, taking things for granted
Sheila said, God is the BOOK OF LIFE, and if we are being created into His image (one of many), am I not, as well as all of us, also a Book of Life of which Christ opens to see all names written; opens to see that we have forgiven all.
As I was writing ... more posts came up but am posting it anyway even though it is now understood
and yes ML, I agree with rose, beautifully said ..... as was what rose and sheila said
I could not help but think about what rose quoted, especially the part of "letters of recommendation", men have degrees hanging on their walls, letters of recommendations, by men for men ..... we can not prove to anyone in this world, we are recommended by God .....
we speak and we let others decide if they think it is from God or not, we force no one ....
"the 'need to be right' comes at way to high a cost", it destroys relationship
and that quote is from the song "Bridge of Light" by Pink
Quote from: jugghead on January 10, 2018, 09:51:28 PM
I could not help but think about what rose quoted, especially the part of "letters of recommendation", men have degrees hanging on their walls, letters of recommendations, by men for men ..... we can not prove to anyone in this world, we are recommended by God .....
we speak and we let others decide if they think it is from God or not, we force no one ....
"the 'need to be right' comes at way to high a cost", it destroys relationship
and that quote is from the song "Bridge of Light" by Pink
I say Amen ! Jugg :dsunny: :HeartThrob: , Sure it is is God whom makes what ever Word sent out not return to Him Void :banana:
I agree that knowledge will cease , Because EVERYONE WILL KNOW !!! BUT IS HAS BEEN AND WILL ALWAYS BE LOVE that mattered most and made all the difference ...
Nothing can separate us from the Love of God ....
Not by power or might ,but By His Sprint of truth does everything change ! all glory is Gods :HeartThrob:
◄ 1 Peter 4 ►
Berean Study Bible
Living for God's Glory
1Therefore, since Christ suffered in His body, arm yourselves with the same resolve, because anyone who has suffered in his body is done with sin.
2Consequently, he does not live out his remaining time on earth for human passions, but for the will of God.
3For you have spent enough time in the past carrying out the same desires as the pagans: living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing, and detestable idolatry.
4Because of this, they consider it strange of you not to plunge with them into the same flood of reckless indiscretion,
and they heap abuse on you. :eek:
5But they will have to give an account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.
6 That is why the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead,
so that they might be judged as men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.7The end of all things is near.
Therefore be clear-minded and sober, so you can pray.
8
Above all, love one another deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins. 9Show hospitality to one another without complaining.10As good stewards of the manifold grace of God, each of you should use whatever gift he has received to serve one another.
1
1If anyone speaks, he should speak as one conveying the words of God.
If anyone serves, he should serve with the strength God supplies, so that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be the glory and the power forever and ever. Amen. I knew what you meant brother , I would say we are Living out the books of the the dead and Living , it is a bold thing to say , but none the less the scriptures do testify of these things .
being that ALL gathered in to Christ is a new creation and Alive by the Sprint working in them and doing the greater works that Jesus said would come because He went to the Father .... and no man can boast nor glory in anything but GOD!! :dsunny: :HeartThrob:
This morning I was reading rosered's post , #13 in "the mark of the beast", when I came across the words "my reason returned to me", immediately the word "candlestick" popped into my head.
If reason equals candlestick, how deep can our understanding go of who Christ is to us and in us?
Amazing
Quote from: jugghead on January 19, 2018, 09:41:41 PM
This morning I was reading rosered's post , #13 in "the mark of the beast", when I came across the words "my reason returned to me", immediately the word "candlestick" popped into my head.
If reason equals candlestick, how deep can our understanding go of who Christ is to us and in us?
Amazing
Amazing grace how sweet the sound of His voice :HeartThrob: Psalms 119 Love your law Lord ..
Your
word is a lamp/candlestick to my feet
And a light to my path.
amen.
I have no idea how much of what I speak here about "the heart" and "the mind" makes sense to people, and if some may think I am off my rocker, but to understand what takes place inside of us between the two .....
The reason I am saying this here now is because of what is being talked about in the thread "Matthew 10:33" with the word "contradict" making more sense and in what I came to understand that "reason" (or the ability to reason) is "a candlestick"
The statement that was brought to mind is: Reason is the candlestick that holds the light of understanding
If what is in our heart contradicts what is in our mind we know we have conflict within ourselves, what I mean by this is:
if grace is in the heart, and the mind agrees with "grace for me" there is no contradiction between the heart and mind
but then change the word "me" to "some of mankind"
if grace is in the heart, and the mind agrees with "grace for some of mankind" there is no contradiction between the hearts and minds of "some of mankind" in which this is what they see as the end result of some of mankind, they see a split end for mankind
now the flip side of the coin ...... the contradiction is in what we see, what we understand (see = understand)
if grace is in the heart, and the mind agrees with "grace for me" there is no contradiction between the heart and mind
but then change the word "me" to "all of mankind"
if grace is in the heart, and the mind agrees with "grace for all of mankind" again there is no contradiction between the hearts and minds of "all of mankind" in which this is what we see as the end result for all of mankind, we see one end for mankind
the contradiction is always between the heart of one and the mind of another, and if we see and understand the concept of:
Christ is "the heart" of the Father
and
The Father is "the mind" of Christ
The Father, the mind of Christ is "our voice of reason", the candlestick which holds the light of understanding and if that "voice of reason" is removed ... a heart of "grace for all of mankind" dies and it is once again subject to its old ways of "grace for some of mankind"
we keep trying to plant the seed of "grace for all" into the hearts of many, but it is always contradicted by those whose candlestick (voice of reason) was removed, and if the candlestick is removed it cannot produce the light of understanding and therefore remains in darkness (remains in a lack of understanding).
and by this we know, unless they repent (think differently) they shall die in their missing of the mark (die in their sin) and it all can come down to one verse, "with God (a Heart and Mind as One/A Father and a Son as One) all things are possible"
To not believe in "grace for all of mankind" is to contradict the verse that says "with God, all things are possible" and God becomes their adversary, but they cannot win against God and we have been given this understanding early, earlier than others.
What I see happening in this world in the manifestation of the Sons of God are those who seek the truth on their own rather then continue to follow man in what "he thinks" the truth is
for we need to leave man's "voice of reason" and hear God's "Voice of Reason" of which we have been given in Christ
Very interesting Jh!
Quote from: jugghead on January 20, 2018, 08:45:52 PM
I have no idea how much of what I speak here about "the heart" and "the mind" makes sense to people, and if some may think I am off my rocker, but to understand what takes place inside of us between the two .....
The reason I am saying this here now is because of what is being talked about in the thread "Matthew 10:33" with the word "contradict" making more sense and in what I came to understand that "reason" (or the ability to reason) is "a candlestick"
:idea2: I like that! It makes a lot of sense to me..
Quote
The statement that was brought to mind is: Reason is the candlestick that holds the light of understanding
:sohappy:
Quote
If what is in our heart contradicts what is in our mind we know we have conflict within ourselves, what I mean by this is:
if grace is in the heart, and the mind agrees with "grace for me" there is no contradiction between the heart and mind
but then change the word "me" to "some of mankind"
if grace is in the heart, and the mind agrees with "grace for some of mankind" there is no contradiction between the hearts and minds of "some of mankind" in which this is what they see as the end result of some of mankind, they see a split end for mankind
now the flip side of the coin ...... the contradiction is in what we see, what we understand (see = understand)
if grace is in the heart, and the mind agrees with "grace for me" there is no contradiction between the heart and mind
but then change the word "me" to "all of mankind"
if grace is in the heart, and the mind agrees with "grace for all of mankind" again there is no contradiction between the hearts and minds of "all of mankind" in which this is what we see as the end result for all of mankind, we see one end for mankind
the contradiction is always between the heart of one and the mind of another, and if we see and understand the concept of:
Christ is "the heart" of the Father
and
The Father is "the mind" of Christ
:idea2: :sohappy: Amen!
Quote
The Father, the mind of Christ is "our voice of reason", the candlestick which holds the light of understanding and if that "voice of reason" is removed ... a heart of "grace for all of mankind" dies and it is once again subject to its old ways of "grace for some of mankind"
we keep trying to plant the seed of "grace for all" into the hearts of many, but it is always contradicted by those whose candlestick (voice of reason) was removed, and if the candlestick is removed it cannot produce the light of understanding and therefore remains in darkness (remains in a lack of understanding).
God bless 'em.. truly.. but it's sorta sad when folks defend 'hell'.. or that is, very sad.. I feel very blessed to not believe it.. And the longer one doesn't buy into it, the more outrageous the whole idea is. Darkness, not light.
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To not believe in "grace for all of mankind" is to contradict the verse that says "with God, all things are possible" and God becomes their adversary, but they cannot win against God and we have been given this understanding early, earlier than others.
What I see happening in this world in the manifestation of the Sons of God are those who seek the truth on their own rather then continue to follow man in what "he thinks" the truth is
for we need to leave man's "voice of reason" and hear God's "Voice of Reason" of which we have been given in Christ
That's very interesting Jugghead. Something kind of like it, and also in Revelation is the sealing of the foreheads of believers in chapter 7. I think it's a common view that the sealing in only pon the foreheads of the 144,000 of Israel. But there's also a "great crowd from every tribe and nation, etc, *too many to be numbered*". Who are these? They're not, I don't believe, the 144,000 of the tribes of Israel because that group
is numbered, but the 'second' group is too great to number.
Do you think He plays hide and seek with truth in His word?
That seal on the forehead, I have always thought of as clarity.. no more false belief. And maybe no one will have it perfectly until His return.. But there it is again, the mind and the heart. The seal on the heart that cries abba Father.. And (hopefully?) increasing clarity of mind..? (This also makes me keep a 'suspicious' mind of what is the forehead title mystery babylon, that it being a title, on the forehead..? I think of it as all untruth. The label. In case we had any doubts.. :laughing7: )
Quote
..candlesticks.. reason..
Amen!!
QuoteChrist is "the heart" of the Father
and
The Father is "the mind" of Christ
Beautiful in simplicity but so powerfully true.
I think it is good to consider what it is the eye recognizes "in the light". Only that which is "real" can be seen in the light. That which is not "real" is in the mind- a reflection of ones own imagination. This why Jesus says, "If the light that is in you is darkness how great is that darkness" and "Because you say you see your sin remains(abides, continues). If you wer blind you would have no sin. Therefore become blind that you may see".
So we have power to tear down strongholds and imaginations that exalt themselves against the true knowledge of God- weapons of righteousness in the right hand and the left. Weapons of righteousness are things like "speaking the truth in love" and "If you find a brother in a fault restore such a one in a spirit of meekness considering your own self lest you stumble" and "The servant of the Lord must not strive, but be gentle, patiently instructing those who oppose themselves so they can escape the snare of the devil".
So we must be "well instructed" by the Holy Spirit in the truth of the word and in the spirit of reconciliation in order to hold the candlestick that will truly shine upon "what is"(I am that I am) and bring hidden things to light.
The hidden things("I speak mysteries in parables, things hidden from the foundation of the wrld") can only be brought to light by those who walk in humility, not priding on what they know, but rather exulting in what saves and transforms and reveals -opening the eyes of the blind.
"The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to set the oppressed free,
to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."
Amen :dsunny: :HeartThrob:
Thanks for bring this back up John , I had no time to comment the other day when Rick made this post.
Come let us reason together Isaiah 1:18 (NASB)
"Let Us Reason"
18 "Come now, and let us reason together,"
Says the Lord,
"Though your sins are as scarlet,
They will be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson,
They will be like wool.
From the transformation of Adam / Edom ''red clay '' to the white woolen sheep that hear His voice , the Lamb of God and mind of Christ ,, I love how you express things Jugg !and how the scriptures connect !!
and John Amen
Luke 8 The Lesson of the Lamp
...17For there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed, and nothing concealed that will not be known and illuminated.
18 Pay attention, therefore, to how you listen.
Whoever has will be given more, but whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has will be taken away from him."
sure makes much more sense when we consider the Lord first in our thoughts ..
We are to be careful how we handle the Word of Life , with love and great care towards one another and before God <3 ..
Amen Marie , I thought of the same thing the seal of God upon the foreheads and seal upon their hearts in the songs of Solomon 8 ; 6 Place me like a seal over your heart, like a seal on your arm. For love is as strong as death, its jealousy as enduring as the grave. Love flashes like fire, the brightest kind of flame.
Revelation 14:1 ...'And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.'
we are sealed with THE FATHER'S name and that we are sealed IN our foreheads. Who is the Father?
Praying to the Father, Jesus said ...John 17:3 ...'And this is eternal life, that they may know thee, THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.'
1 Corinthians 8:6 ...'But to us there is but ONE GOD, THE FATHER, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.'
2 John 1:3 ...'Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from GOD THE FATHER, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.'
:dsunny: :HeartThrob:
the'seal'onGod's Word"is of the Authority and Governement and Kingdom.144,00 is the adminstrative Gov..12 etc.and denotes authority
the Worthy Lamb...Christ can open the seals..and showus the mind of the Father and His heart.....those markedby the man with
the inkhorn.......grieving over all that isbeing done/said in the supposedly 'name' ofGod ..willhave Hisname in their forehead.There
bethings being said unworthy of God..andHischarcter/nature..bypeople/man who interpret their owndark imagnations/hell/greeksetc.
a new song/a new name/a new spirit..beauty for ashes
I know some of the Lyricsof the new song..butIcan't perfectly SINGit/you can notsing the songsof Zion in aforeign land[Psalms 137;3]
here are some of the Lyrics that allwillbesinging.......joyofsalvation/freedom/deliverance//victory/homecoming...andPRAISe
1.Mankind has no sin because the Lordtookthem allaway.John 1;29
2 Father sentJesusto atone[John 17;20-23]for all humankind by His blood[53;4-12]
and another..God sent Jesus to reconcile the world of humaninty notimputing tresspass untothem[Ps 32;1-2,2 Cor 5;18,19]
...those arejust afewofthe lyrics[Rev 14;2 lyre/harp]
The Good News is in Christ
That all will be made alive
The Good News is in Christ
This veil of flesh must die
The Good News is the Beginning
His workmanship in us
The Good News is the End
Finishing His work He must
The Good News is the Truth
The Truth that sets you free
The Good News is the Life
The Life that will always be
The Good News is the Cross
The flesh that was so frail
The Good News is His Love
A Love that cannot fail
Quote from: jugghead on February 13, 2018, 01:15:15 PM
The Good News is in Christ
That all will be made alive
The Good News is in Christ
This veil of flesh must die
The Good News is the Beginning
His workmanship in us
The Good News is the End
Finishing His work He must
The Good News is the Truth
The Truth that sets you free
The Good News is the Life
The Life that will always be
The Good News is the Cross
The flesh that was so frail
The Good News is His Love
A Love that cannot fail
:HeartThrob: :banana: :dsunny: Amen !!!!!!!!!!
Amen! Very nice! ..And so true! :cloud9:
I loved your post Jugghead...........Heaven desires sons of understanding. we must Love God with all the mind all the heart.and our fellowman as ourselves.
:2c:
When we rely on our own understanding (or man's understanding of God) and we truly believe that what we understand is of God.
then God Himself becomes our adversary, He becomes Satan (the accuser) to us, He becomes the devil (the traducer) to us, and when we hear His voice ..... we believe we are being tempted to be led astray when in fact He is trying to set us free ..... and the biggest thing about it is ..... we do not even know that is what is happening
How do I know this? Because I myself experienced it early in my walk when I listened to man's understanding of God rather than finding out for myself, but even that could not have taken place until God Himself placed in me "His hunger" for me to know the truth and continue to walk the path that was chosen for me rather than stopping at the walls of man
"they honor Me with their lips but their heart is far from Me"
Since I believe that Christ Himself is "the Heart" of The Father then by default "the heart" of man becomes the "anti-Christ"
Doctrines of men are bricks in the wall of the prison cell we can build around ourselves and our own mind can believe it is God protecting us from going astray
:2c:
Quote from: jugghead on February 23, 2018, 09:17:48 PM
:2c:
When we rely on our own understanding (or man's understanding of God) and we truly believe that what we understand is of God.
then God Himself becomes our adversary, He becomes Satan (the accuser) to us, He becomes the devil (the traducer) to us, and when we hear His voice ..... we believe we are being tempted to be led astray when in fact He is trying to set us free ..... and the biggest thing about it is ..... we do not even know that is what is happening
How do I know this? Because I myself experienced it early in my walk when I listened to man's understanding of God rather than finding out for myself, but even that could not have taken place until God Himself placed in me "His hunger" for me to know the truth and continue to walk the path that was chosen for me rather than stopping at the walls of man
"they honor Me with their lips but their heart is far from Me"
Since I believe that Christ Himself is "the Heart" of The Father then by default "the heart" of man becomes the "anti-Christ"
Doctrines of men are bricks in the wall of the prison cell we can build around ourselves and our own mind can believe it is God protecting us from going astray
:2c:
I have considered the same things bro when reading Deut 28 though 32 chapters we can see how the rebellious spirit in a man can and does become adversarial against God though Disobedience
when Satan is divided against satan
A House Divided
...17But Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom
divided against itself will be laid waste, and a house
divided against a house will fall. 18If Satan
is divided against himself, how can his kingdom stand? After all, you say that I drive out demons by Beelzebul. 19And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom
do your sons drive them out? So then,
they will be your judges....
"Away from me, Satan!" Jesus declared. "For it is written:
'Worship the Lord your God and serve Him only.'"Matthew 4:24
News about Him spread all over Syria, and people brought to Him all who were ill with various diseases, those suffering acute pain, the demon-possessed, those having seizures, and the paralyzed--
and He healed them.Matthew 10:25
It is enough for a disciple to be like his teacher, and a servant like his master. If the head of the house has been called Beelzebul, how much more the members of his household!
26So do not be afraid of them.
For nothing is concealed that will not be uncovered, or hidden that will not be made known. 27What I tell you in the dark,
speak in the light; what is whispered in your ear,
proclaim from the housetops.28Do not be afraid of those who kill the body
but cannot kill the soul. Instead,
fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in judgment a punishment called "Gehenna" or "Gehenna of fire".
A testing /Touchstone against the Word of truth by the Sprint of Truth , our two witnesses in everything sworn in a oath
of heaven and of earth and below .
I do believe any evil must be destroyed by fire baptism [ the purification process ] .
GOD is a consuming fire .
DEFINITION of 'Baptism by Fire' A phrase originating from Europe that describes an employee that is learning something the hard way, like being immersed in their field of employment.
Baptism by fire has its roots in battle terminology, describing a soldier's first time in battle.
I thought of the encounter on the road to Emmaus and the supper at Emmaus, and states that a disciple named Cleopas was walking towards Emmaus with another disciple when they met Jesus. They did not recognize him, and discussed their sadness at recent events with him. but they recognized him when their hearts started burning within them [cleansing purity ] so the seals of the book was opened to Know it was Jesus walking with them
and the battle down the road with the forces of good and evil , to over come evil with GOOD / GOD THE GOOD NEWS OF THE GOSPEL OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST ... THE LIVING WORD IN POWER BY THE LIVING GOD / SPIRIT
We really cannot judge anything before the time when the Lord comes and brings it to Light , than will we know as we ought . until than we wait on the Lord to Come :dsunny: come Lord Come :HeartThrob:
rev22 Nothing May Be Added
...19And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
20He who testifies to these things says, "
Yes, I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus! 21The grace of the Lord Jesu
s be with all the saints. Amen.... :dsunny:
Quote from: rodgertutt on February 23, 2018, 05:02:44 AM
MY BELIEFS
I'm convinced that after we have thought the very best thoughts about God, we can be sure that He is even better than that because He is able to do above what we can even think, Ephesians 3:20. And IMHO I cannot think any higher thoughts than universal transformation.
I completely agree with this POV
Quote from: rodgertutt on February 23, 2018, 05:02:44 AM
I believe that after our resurrection from the dead God will eventually somehow transform every second of everyone's suffering into something better that it happened.
That includes both the unexplained and seemingly unjustifiable suffering that we all experience in varying degrees, as well as what the Bible calls "kolasis aionion" which means age-during corrective chastisement that everyone who needs it will experience.
I believe that God will eventually fit every unique individual into His master plan in a positive way that necessitates their unique temporary involvement in evil and suffering that will enable God to manifest, and glorify, and magnify the many facets of His character in a way that uniquely involves that person, and everyone else involved in that person's life too.
Then, after God has finished using evil and suffering for the reasons why He allowed them to temporarily exist, He will eradicate them from existence.
I believe that God has both the ability and the intention to save all fallen creatures from everything from which they need to be saved, and He will not fail to do so.
I believe that God's determination, within the wise counsel of His DECRETIVE will which is that which MUST occur, to eventually rid all of creation from suffering, will in every case, overcome the strongest will that is temporarily opposed to God's PRECEPTIVE will which is what His creatures OUGHT to do, e.g. THE GOLDEN RULE.
All evil eventually leads to good, however, God is the only One Who can do this. He created evil (Isaiah 45:7), to provide the contrast for good. When all good is revealed, then evil will be abolished from God's universe—forever.
THE PURPOSE OF EVIL – A.P. Adams (GOOD EXPOSITION)
http://thegloryrd.com:80/apadams/evil.html
What comes to mind with this is Romans 8:28,
"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God", because would not "evil" be considered in the term "all things"? I believe so. And because it also says "to them that love God", can we sincerely say we love God if we do not believe "that all things work together for good"? I do not believe so.
This verse in itself is a general statement in that it uses the term "all things", it is when we get into specifics that this understanding can become clouded. But if there is one thing I have learned about general statements and then getting into specifics is in how lawyers work. What I mean by that is: a lawyer can take a subject that is in a general sense, bring up a specific incident that fits into that general sense and when he is able to discredit the testimony of that one specific incident, it throws doubt on the rest of the testimony thereby making it possible to discredit everything else that was said.
For example: a specific incident about a child being murdered and what good can come of that .... because we may not see the good that can come from that incident, it can easily throw doubt on the verse "all things work together for good" and to discredit one verse in the Bible makes it much easier to discredit others along the way.
So take note Sons and Daughters, if specifics are brought up when you are speaking in general terms, know how these lawyers (so-called) work in trying to discredit your whole testimony with one specific incident that you may not see the good that can come from it because they do not see any good in it at all, other wise they would not try to discredit it.
Quote from: rodgertutt on February 23, 2018, 05:02:44 AM
I believe the only mistake that I am probably making is in grossly underestimating just how gloriously God will achieve this universal transformation through what Christ accomplished for everyone by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of his cross.
That is the kind of God that I see in the Bible.
Realizing that he is including everyone without exception, the following quote by Christian universalist Dr. Leslie Weatherhead nicely sums up what I believe. I've had it memorized for many years and love to quote it frequently.
"God's purposes are so vast and glorious, beyond all guessing now, that when they are achieved and consummated, all our sufferings and sorrows of today, even the agonies that nearly break our faith, the disasters that well nigh overwhelm us, shall, seen from that fair country where God's age long dreams come true, bulk as little as bulk now the pieces of a broken toy upon a nursery floor, over which, thinking that all our little world was in ruins, we cried ourselves to sleep."
THE COROLLARY TO MY BELIEFS
For me the corollary to my belief in universal transformation is just as important as the belief itself.
The corollary is that when the chips are down and I am overwhelmed by life's negatives to the point where I can't make my wonderful theology work for me in a practical way, yet even that sorry state of affairs is something that God will eventually transform into something better for me that it temporarily prevailed.
As I said in the other thread,
Well said RT, and again, I could not agree more with
"grossly underestimating just how gloriously God will achieve this universal transformation through what Christ accomplished for everyone by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of His cross", for God to change our perspective to be able to
see through His eyes is more wondrous than any words can describe, it is beyond any understanding of men ..... it is a peace and understanding that surpasses even the greatest thing we can think of.
And what came to mind with the words "realizing that He is including everyone without exception" are
2 Timothy 2:20-21 ...
"but in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honor and some to dishonor, if a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honor, sanctified, and meet for the master's use and prepared unto every good work" and
Romans 9:20-21 ...
"Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why has thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honor and another unto dishonor?"If an evil man, a vessel of dishonor, as seen through the eyes of men, did exactly what he was designed by God to do, would not that vessel be a vessel of honor through the eyes of God if he did exactly what he was suppose to? Would not God also say to him "well done good and faithful servant" if he did exactly what he was suppose to, despite the fact that he is viewed by men as a vessel of dishonor?
Do we not see this in the Judas? Who are we to judge what God designed that vessel to accomplished to bring about the good He has purposed in another?
To see and understand that "all things" are used by God to bring about HIS purpose is to stop seeing others in the flesh, to stop seeing others as unclean
"through our own eyes' and understand what God has declared as clean
"seeing them through His eyes".
If others have a hard time accepting this understanding, the only thing left for me to say is this ... it is by this understanding that I can find the compassion in my own heart to forgive them for what they do not know they are doing, and by it I am able to love them in the way my heavenly Father loves them, knowing that they too will be purged of what they were formed to be to fulfill God's purposes for good in this temporary physical existence.
It is only by this understanding that I can love my enemies and follow in the footsteps of Christ and die to all judgment in the flesh and forgive through the Spirit.
My :2c:, but I hope and pray that it is worth more to others
Quote from: jugghead on February 23, 2018, 09:17:48 PM
:2c:
When we rely on our own understanding (or man's understanding of God) and we truly believe that what we understand is of God.
then God Himself becomes our adversary, He becomes Satan (the accuser) to us, He becomes the devil (the traducer) to us, and when we hear His voice ..... we believe we are being tempted to be led astray when in fact He is trying to set us free ..... and the biggest thing about it is ..... we do not even know that is what is happening
How do I know this? Because I myself experienced it early in my walk when I listened to man's understanding of God rather than finding out for myself, but even that could not have taken place until God Himself placed in me "His hunger" for me to know the truth and continue to walk the path that was chosen for me rather than stopping at the walls of man
"they honor Me with their lips but their heart is far from Me"
Since I believe that Christ Himself is "the Heart" of The Father then by default "the heart" of man becomes the "anti-Christ"
Doctrines of men are bricks in the wall of the prison cell we can build around ourselves and our own mind can believe it is God protecting us from going astray
:2c:
Amen...many 'hellists' end up seeing God as an adversary...deep down.......they believe He will maybe send them to hell if they fall or He will send their loved ones to hell.....they think He's waiting there for them to mess up....how different to the Freedom of Reconcilianists !
Rev 2;16...change of mind needed..when we find ourselves..in this adversarial position.I will come to you and war with you with the sword of my mouth.
re; vessels of unclean use...do not condemn a servant unto his master ...and; God will show mercy unto him as a son that has served Him.unable to tell a servant
from son at a certain'stage'of developement....heir=ALL THINGS ARE YOURS..servant does not always remain in the household[temporal corrupt image] :2c:
Got a question for you guys and gals, it has crossed my mind to start going back to church, mainly to get into the Bible studies to get others to think about what "His written word" is actually saying by planting seeds.
the only problem that I see coming up is, sitting through sermons of someone who believes in ET and when I hear an untruth sitting quietly and saying nothing, to me that would be the hardest thing. I don't know if I could do that without getting upset or angry.
I see that some here still go to church while believing in UR and I see that some do not go to church, I myself prefer not to have those distractions that would cause me anger, so that's why I avoid church, but my question is:
How do those of you who go to church while believing in UR deal with the untruths you hear during sermons?
even if you don't go to church would like your input also.
Because the one thing that always remains in the back of my mind is: there was one time when I was going to church (at the beginning of my walk) and I fully believed in the ET doctrines, I got up in the middle of the sermon and walked out because I had the most overwhelming feeling that "I didn't belong here"
The only thing I can see in it, is that, a weakness can be turned into a strength in that, when I heard an untruth it would cause me to search out the matter, but I also remember doing that in the beginning to try to prove them wrong in my own pride.
all comments are welcome
Blessings
Speaking has no purpose if it is not heard
Hearing has no purpose if what is spoken it is not listened to
Listening has no purpose if what is heard is not considered
Considering has no purpose if it is not tried (tested)
Trying (testing) has no purpose if it does not reveal
Revealing has no purpose if it is not believed
Believing has no purpose if it does not cause an increase
Therefore "I take every thought captive in obedience to Christ" and consider it
and if what I heard spoken does not cause an increase of love (Love) in me towards others, what use is it?
I don't go to the churches,Rick.though I have considered it.come out ofher,my people.You know when you listen to a song..and hear it again and again..andbefore you
knowit..your singing right along?I reckon that those seeking Him ,and those whom He choose, have Holy spirit to help lead them out also. Knock,seek. They are under grace
and water seeks it's own level. :2c:
Numbers 26;57
gershonites, kohaths and merari. Some served with dealing with basic frame-work of worship..literal water baptisms/literal bread wafer etc. a mirrored symbolism.[cloths
over Holy things hiding from view]in regard to the tabernacle/Tent of meeting
some at a different level can see greater spiritual truths in the parables/teachings,acts......and others are more involved with Most Holy. :2c:
Quote from: sheila on March 04, 2018, 06:12:54 PM
I don't go to the churches,Rick.though I have considered it.come out ofher,my people.You know when you listen to a song..and hear it again and again..andbefore you
knowit..your singing right along?I reckon that those seeking Him ,and those whom He choose, have Holy spirit to help lead them out also. Knock,seek. They are under grace
and water seeks it's own level. :2c:
Amen sis :iagree:
I have too considered it , but never felt led to , But to each his own . God knows , If you are telling the Truth and they do not believe it .
I recall stumbling a few so badly , Just by simply saying , God is perfect Love and will save everyone each in their own order ,
now that anything I say is totally ignored and considered cursed and also do not quote scripture to them any more :sigh: cut off entirely. and despised .
That I am super deceived and misguided by their standards [judging by the weak flesh and not the Spirit of Life ] , But in my heart I know God will deliver His creation perfectly .
Our relationships are strained and it is hard to live among such oppressions and judgments .
Even my own husband has taken a lot longer to grow in truth and grace because of it .
Not everyone can handle the truth with respect and certainly not with honor to the FATHER , Like Jesus proved can be done .
Healing the sick and afflicted and poor in spirit is a whole lot more costly than just saying it . you do have to give up your life in the world as you knew it before . 30 years of this divisions .
Now after knowing what I do , I would have never snared them so swiftly with such a brutal truth , that they were not prepared by God first to receive ..
Yet they believe in God ...
It is true sis water seeks its own level and when it is mixed with mud and miry clay , the only way to go is up from there .
Let God be true and everyman a liar in the sense of this , I too , held the same beastly dragons flood spewing out of my mouth , while appearing as a lamb . But God knows the heart .
God knows how to deliver His own creation sometimes suffering is the only way to learn righteousness in the earth.
2 peter 2 9if all this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment.
10Such punishment is specially reserved for those who indulge the corrupt desires of the flesh and despise authority.
Bold and self-willed, these men are unafraid to slander angelic majesties.
11
Yet not even angels, though greater in strength and power, dare to bring such slanderous charges against them before the Lord. 12 These men are like irrational animals, creatures of instinct, born to be captured and destroyed.
They blaspheme in matters they do not understand, and like such creatures, they too will be destroyed.
13The harm they will suffer is the wages of their wickedness.
I really do not think anyone gets away scott -free while Gods wrath for the moment is in effect in the earth , we learn from disobedience from examples and very well lessons learned the hard way .
As sis has always upheld , Learn you will , the easy way or hard way , but you will lean obedience one way or the other .
But we trust His mercy endures always and we wait patiently for this to become His truth made known to all.
We love the true and living God because He first loved us while we were yet sinners , Christ died for us and saved us by His grace /blood poured out upon all his creation , as sin abounds His grace /blood / Spirit of life abounds the more , Jesus knew before He came what a shame that hour of trial would bring and rightly despised it , as we all should knowing what we do now .
For this hour I have come ......... John 12 ...
26If anyone serves Me, he must follow Me; and where I am, My servant will be as well.
If anyone serves Me, the Father will honor him.
27Now My soul is troubled, and what shall I say? 'Father, save Me from this hour'? No, it is for this purpose that I have come to this hour.
28 Father, glorify Your name!" Then a voice came from heaven: "I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again."...
All power and glory will be done in the Word of Life by the Spirit of Life given to everyone as they are made new in Christ
:thumbsup: Rose 2Peter 2; 7-11...I thought of how the demon"s on the possessed men wanted to sodomize the Lord's angels in that scripture account.whenthey
come to deliver Lot :2c:
..it also brought to my mind the account when a hoard sodomized ambassador Stevens..a few years back. :2c:
ps Rose..it seems to me it's more like they have fallen over a lie as a stumbling-block..not you declaring the TRUTH....stumble the stumbled?or the truthofGod causing
them to get back up.only truth can stand us up. allthevirgins[churches]slept....but some took extra oil along in vessels with them. :2c:
Quote from: sheila on March 04, 2018, 09:02:44 PM
ps Rose..it seems to me it's more like they have fallen over a lie as a stumbling-block..not you declaring the TRUTH....stumble the stumbled?or the truthofGod causing
them to get back up.only truth can stand us up. allthevirgins[churches]slept....but some took extra oil along in vessels with them. :2c:
I was thinking of that sis , locked us
all up in disobedience so having mercy on us all :HeartThrob:
Romans 11 ...31so they too have now disobeyed, in order that they too may now receive mercy through the mercy shown to you.
32For God has consigned all men to disobedience, so that He may have mercy on them all.
33O,
the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable His judgments, and untraceable His ways!... a mystery revealed :dsunny:
I decided not to go to church years ago. I didn't find the Lord in church, so there wasn't that. But what little mingling I did with fellow believers, I was picking up mixed signals. The Lord's Spirit was ministering to me, "love". But from His people and church I was getting more of a "be of a stern countenance so they know they are sinners" - which I guess is "the law" operating as "the way" or mixed in with "the way".
So rather than have the struggle I dropped out. Being a teen in the 70's (came to the Lord in 79) dropping out wasn't hard. Besides I'm very much a sort of 'monastic' person. I love to seek Him in the Quietness. And without the struggle of what to believe and not believe.. I chose the bible. And I'm very happy I did!
But now that I am a lot firmer in being aware of what the bible says, I think it would be a lot easier to affiliate with a church.. But hopefully one that seldom if ever mentions 'eternal torment' or hell.. And it would definitely have to be a bible based group. A home group would maybe be best?
I've wondered if the Lord may, once life slows down a bit more(?) lead me to more active participation
with believers (face to face that is) :gsmile: (Or not..!)
Quote from: sheila on March 04, 2018, 06:30:10 PM
Numbers 26;57
gershonites, kohaths and merari. Some served with dealing with basic frame-work of worship..literal water baptisms/literal bread wafer etc. a mirrored symbolism.[cloths
over Holy things hiding from view]in regard to the tabernacle/Tent of meeting
some at a different level can see greater spiritual truths in the parables/teachings,acts......and others are more involved with Most Holy. :2c:
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Quote from: rosered on March 04, 2018, 07:13:49 PM
I have too considered it , but never felt led to , But to each his own .
Amen Rose.. and loved your post :HeartThrob: :girlheart:
How can anyone explain to another what they understand if the other is not willing to listen? And if another is not willing to listen, "how" does the one who is not being listened to feel; and "what" do they feel?
When we consider God as "a Spirit that cannot die", how would He explain to another being what He feels when someone will not listen to what He knows to be truth? Do we ever consider that the only way for God to get us to understand His feelings is through the example of death? Do we ever consider that what we feel and experience in the flesh is what God can feel and experience in the Spirit? Do we ever consider that the whole purpose for the creation of the flesh is to understand what the Spirit can experience?
In what I have come to understand about the heart of God, in order for us to fully understand the depths of what His heart feels; the extreme depth of what He feels, for me it is to understand:
"death" is the only way for God to get us to understand "the extreme depth of what He feels".
Dude....I love that. So true.
So jugghead, are you saying that it is in loss that we realize how very much we should treasure what we have, and how very precious the gifts God has given us are? If so, then yes, I agree. It is necessary, though oh so very painful. It is not always physical death, in body, but sometimes the death of a relationship, a place, a way of life, and so on. A way of being that we have become comfortable with, that refreshes us, somehow, an oasis, someone who helps us through life, etc.
Oh, and I deal with the 'untruths' in churches, by knowing that we are all on a different part of the journey to God, and that I was, for a long time, where the people who don't believe in UR were. I focus on what we have in common, rather than what is different. And on the beauty of a group of people coming together to celebrate Christ, who died and rose from the dead. And, I love church music. Sometimes, I do go to churches where UR is part of that churches theology. Evangelical Lutherans in America believe in UR. But, I happen to know some people in other churches that I go to personally believe in UR, even though it is not accepted in the church they attend.
I think there are many more 'In the closet' UR believers, than one might realize. I talk to a lot of people, so sometimes people tell me things that they don't announce publicly.
D.
Yes D, that is what I am saying...
Death is the extreme example of "separation" ..... having to do with everything, most mostly (I believe) when it comes to relationship.
When we experience the physical death of a loved one, we experience a "separation" from them, no longer being able to have that physical contact with them, a physical relationship with them and I believe it is in the same way with our spirit, we are born into a spiritual separation from God (born into death) by being created in the flesh (put [breathed] into a physical body) and I believe that the purpose of the physical is so that the carnal mind has something it can understand (to be carnally minded is death) .....
for the purpose of ... when His Spirit is brought to life in us (awakened from our sleep), we now have something to compare it to in order to understand what God has felt in being separated from us .... but His focus is on the end result that all will return to Him (all breath will return to Him), He is patient knowing they will return in one way or another, either through and in their physical life or through their physical death into life .... because if He does not stay focused on the end result, He would put Himself through hell in not knowing the outcome and what He would experience (suffer) can't even compare to what we experience (suffer).
either way "GOD WINS" and that is what I believe is the wisdom of the Father, He made sure that He would not suffer forever by making sure we also would not.
Blessings all
Thank you, jugghead.
D.
:2c:what come to my mind upon reading this...is....the request made unto God for a'good' conscience.Only'God'isgood.thus..our acknowledgement of Him..in our whole being.
the 'dead'know nothing[there is no other] The prodigal in his seperation was DEAD unto his Father. Jesus said'let the dead bury the dead" the Father said..'ALL LIVE
UNTO ME.We find our life..'hidden'in Him[and the Christ/spirit] there is no'life' apart from Him.You couldsay..'our'life is bound up in Him"and 'the/His cords of Love....
draw and bind us unto Him..and life.Love is as 'strong' as death[grav[e]ity] a perfect bond of union.Maybe,it is through the discovery of Him...that we discover[become
cognizant]of "who"we are,"what"we are,"how'we' are,'why"we are...and'when"we have come into existence/being/Life.
big difference between'existing' and really LIVING.. :dsunny:meagerness[poor in spirit]and abundant life.
When all the "judgment for sin" is put to death, the only thing left to do is "rise up and show mercy"
what better 'remedy' for sin than freely forgiving and not counting their tresspasses against them? Can reconciliation occurr any other way?What hinders it,but unbelief
in the mercy and forgiveness extended?Sow unbelief and reap condemnation and judgement untodeath of all men.sow partial belief and reap a few saved.
sow full faith and reap 100% men saved. Faith..like a mustard seed....30/60/100 :2c:
Through the eye of the law ..... there are none righteous
But
through the eye of grace ..... all are forgiven
For me, I have plucked out the eye of "judgment towards man" for it has offended me.
The "hand of judgment" was sacrificed/cut off in order for the "hand of grace" to overcome
Not sure how many may agree with what I believe, but I wrote this a few days back ......
What do we "miss the mark" with? What I believe we "miss the mark" with is "judgment". When judgment is directed at ourselves rather than directed at the sin in us, we tend to judge ourselves as unrighteous rather than judging only sin as unrighteous.
This can be seen in the story of the garden if we believe that each physical thing represents something spiritual in us. What I mean by this, by what I have come to understand is:
The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil = The Law
The fruit that the tree produces = Judgment - in which judgment can be used for or against
Before Adam and Eve ate from the tree, they were naked and unashamed. If we believe that being naked is a representation of being unrighteousness, we can understand that their condition before they ate from the tree was; they were unrighteous and not ashamed. The question, I believe, that needs to be asked at this point is: Why were they unashamed of their unrighteousness? The reason I believe they were unashamed of their unrighteousness is because they could not see it, they were blind to it.
Does this not make sense in the understanding that after they ate "and the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked" (Genesis 3:7). Before they ate from the tree, they had no idea what unrighteousness was, but after they ate, they knew what unrighteousness was and they knew that they were unrighteous.
What the nature of man does here is: it sees a truth and it builds upon that without realizing what it is doing. What I mean by that is this; the last part of the previous paragraph, "they knew that they were unrighteous" is "the missing of the mark". Their judgment was directed at themselves rather then only at sin itself, they missed the mark (the bulls-eye) with their judgment; in other words, their judgment hit themselves rather then hitting only sin, they "missed the mark".
What I believe we should get from this is: we are to understand that we are a righteous being; a righteous being with the ability to judge, but to aim that judgment at ourselves (or others) rather than only at sin is a "sin in itself". Our ability to judge is to be used for the death and destruction of "sin" not the death and destruction of ourselves or others.
This is what I believe the nature of God uses judgment for ... to judge only sin, whereas the nature of man uses judgment to not only judge sin but to judge others. Man's eyes have been opened to the judgment of sin and it is a righteous thing, but what man's eyes are still blind to is: the unrighteousness (sin) of judging others.
In short:
It is a righteous thing to judge sin
BUT
it is an unrighteous thing to judge others
Nice post jugghead!
Kind of an in depth explanation of 'hate the sin, love the sinner'.
Enjoying your posts,
Pat
Quote from: jugghead on May 12, 2018, 10:14:52 AM
In short:
It is a righteous thing to judge sin
BUT
it is an unrighteous thing to judge others
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: "Judge not, that ye be not judged" ..."we reap what we sow.."
If Jesus Himself was "perfected" by the things He suffered.. how much more in need of perfecting are all we redeemed and not yet redeemed. ...(as in "redemption paid").
Each day (morning and evening) that God created, He said it was good.. But I have to think not yet perfected.. in that all rational creatures (I believe) by suffering through this imperfection/missing the mark - as opposed to His utter Perfection - now have a stake in all this. To learn the hard lesson of just how imperfect, imperfection is.. what a black hole.. and abyss it is.. the potential of it.. Well, there's war. Need one ever say more..? Learning to abhor any tiny grain of imperfection/one's own way.. For the potential is horrid, and imperfection, being imperfect cannot reverse its course back to perfection. "None can save their own soul"(psyche). How happy we are that He who is life (imo) is utterly perfect and incorruptible. :cloud9: :cloud9: And really.. if He is life, itself.. and also if He is every where present, which of course, we know He is, He suffers more than anyone.. Living through it all.. And history / imperfection has not been pretty.. "In the day you eat of it, you shall surely die.." [This is one of the rare occasions where, imo, a day is reckoned as a thousand years.."] .."The wages/result received of missing the mark is death." It can never, ever work. Eternal lesson?
Go not that way.. It only results in crashing n burning and death/annihilation, imo, for if God is life and perfect(ion) then imperfection is the opposite of life. Literally.
Yet if that option had not been there..? How would He have had to do it, without that option of disobedience?
:Chinscratch: Can you have obedience, without the option of disobedience
?
QuoteEach day (morning and evening) that God created, He said it was good.. But I have to think not yet perfected..
Watch this!
Genesis 3:5-6
5for God doth know that in the day of your eating of it--your eyes have been opened, and ye have been as God, knowing good and evil.'
6And the
woman seeth that the tree [is] good for food, and that it [is] pleasant to the eyes, and the tree is desirable to make [one] wise, and she taketh of its fruit and eateth, and giveth also to her husband with her, and he doth eat
1 John 2:6
16because all that [is] in the world--
the desire of the flesh, and the desire of the eyes, and the ostentation of the life--is not of the Father, but of the world
Now, let's look at that Genesis verse again...
6And the woman seeth that the tree [is] good for food (
Lust of the flesh), and that it [is] pleasant to the eyes (
Lust of the eyes), and the tree is desirable to make [one] wise (
Pride of life), and she taketh of its fruit and eateth, and giveth also to her husband with her, and he doth eat
If you notice carefully, She was ALREADY carnal, committing the sins of the WORLD(Lust of the eyes, Lust of the flesh, Pride of life) BEFORE even EATING the fruit!
Quote from: MusicLover123 on May 13, 2018, 02:10:07 AM
QuoteEach day (morning and evening) that God created, He said it was good.. But I have to think not yet perfected..
Watch this!
Genesis 3:5-6
5for God doth know that in the day of your eating of it--your eyes have been opened, and ye have been as God, knowing good and evil.'
6And the woman seeth that the tree [is] good for food, and that it [is] pleasant to the eyes, and the tree is desirable to make [one] wise, and she taketh of its fruit and eateth, and giveth also to her husband with her, and he doth eat
1 John 2:6
16because all that [is] in the world--the desire of the flesh, and the desire of the eyes, and the ostentation of the life--is not of the Father, but of the world
Now, let's look at that Genesis verse again...
6And the woman seeth that the tree [is] good for food (Lust of the flesh), and that it [is] pleasant to the eyes (Lust of the eyes), and the tree is desirable to make [one] wise (Pride of life), and she taketh of its fruit and eateth, and giveth also to her husband with her, and he doth eat
If you notice carefully, She was ALREADY carnal, committing the sins of the WORLD(Lust of the eyes, Lust of the flesh, Pride of life) BEFORE even EATING the fruit!
Strong's #3789: ophis (pronounced of'-is)
probably from 3700 (
through the idea of sharpness of vision); a snake, figuratively, (as a type of sly cunning) an artful malicious person, especially Satan:--serpent.
Thayer's Greek Lexicon:
̓́
ophis
1) snake, serpent
2) with the ancients, the serpent was an emblem of cunning and wisdom.
The serpent who deceived Eve was regarded by the Jews as the devil.Part of Speech: noun masculine
Relation: probably from G3700 (through the idea of sharpness of vision)
Citing in TDNT: 5:566, 748
Usage:
This word is used 14 times:
Matthew 7:10: "a fish, will he give him a serpent?"
Matthew 10:16: "be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as"
Matthew 23:33: " Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation"
Mark 16:18: "They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt"
Luke 10:19: "power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over"
Luke 11:11: "a fish give him a serpent?"
John 3:14: "Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so"
1 Corinthians 10:9: "and were destroyed of serpents."
2 Corinthians 11:3: "lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his"
Revelation 9:19: "their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with"
Revelation 12:9: "dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan,"
Revelation 12:14: "from the face of the serpent."
Revelation 12:15: "And the serpent cast out of his mouth water"
Revelation 20:2: "the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and"
in her minds eye she believed the serpents lie . you shall NOT surly die .. but we have Jesus testimony of overcoming the lie
I f you would just consider Jesus being sent by the Holy Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil , you will notice Jesus was offered all the kingdoms of the world and its pomp if he would just bow down and worship satan matt 4
8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9 "All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."
10 Jesus said to him,
"Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only. Hind sight is 20/20 vision learning though the experience ! But we have Jesus testimony , being the Spirit of prophecy
now to learn of Him .. He is the complete or perfect teacher being the author and finisher of our faith . found in Him .
His Word in us . when we eat of His body and drink His blood that we might have Life in us
Alora Lois Jayne Antonich - 7 lbs. 5 ozs. - arrived yesterday, on Mother's Day :banana:
My fifth grandchild through relationships, and my first grandchild through blood
Just wanted to share :dsunny:
:thumbsup:
God bless and congrats on the new grandbaby ! :girlheart: :banana: :HeartThrob:
Congrats, jugghead!
I just had my first grandbaby,too!
My son and his wife, had a baby girl! She is Mackenzie Grace! She came April 9th. We almost lost her and her mother. I am so grateful they are here with us!
A gift from Heaven!
D.
:welcome: Alora
Congratulations Grampa!
Just this morning, I was led to the subject of "evil spirits", as I was reading Acts 19:15; "And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?", and as I dug into the original meanings, the word translated as "evil" means "hurtful".
My first question to this was, "Why was it blown out of proportion?" In others words, why was it made into something more than it is?
The other thing that came to mind as I dug, was the word G1097, which was translated as "I know" when it's original meaning is "to know".
The changing of understanding can be so subtle that we don't even see it. It is because of this reason, I believe, we "have to" find out for ourselves, but more so, that we "need to" find out for ourselves, but what can lack in a person is a passion, a desire, a want ..... do we lack the "want to" find out for ourselves.
I am always brought back to December 12, 2005, the day of my experience and that a hunger was placed in me to know the truth. This hunger is my passion, not of myself, but of God, it it His passion for me to know the truth and it takes strength to keep digging, His strength to keep digging so that He can reveal what the truth is.
What I was shown in Acts 19:15 was this "And the hurtful spirit answered and said, Jesus knows, and Paul knows; but who are ye?" despite the fact that my physical eyes saw "And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?"
The whole reason for this is to show direction, and what I mean by this is: it was not that the hurtful spirit wanted to know or even needed to know who the seven sons of the high priest were, by asking "Who are you?" it is a matter of the hurtful spirit saying to the seven sons "Jesus knows who I am, Paul knows who I am, but who are you? Do you know who I am?"
In the Old Testament, there are examples of God sending evil spirits to men, but we are not to understand that God is evil in sending an evil spirit, it is understanding that God sends an evil spirit to show us who we are.
If we understand this verse in this way, do we see what God is trying to tell us, trying to tell us what we are doing? Because what did this hurtful spirit do afterward, verse 16: "leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded."
I believe God, through this hurtful spirit God was showing these seven sons of the high priest "who they were" and "what they were doing" to His children when they would try to come into the house of God to seek comfort and reassurance that they were loved by God.
Because even the father's name, Sceva means "left handed" and should we not come to understand that God's left hand is the one who shows us "who we are" and that His right hand is the one who shows us "who we are to be", both working together as one to guide us down the path of righteousness.
And to take this even further into a deeper understanding is to look at the word "was" (G2258) in verse 16, it's meaning is "I was" and by this we can come to understand that the name of this hurtful spirit is "I was" and that these seven sons of the left hand had fallen back into the old ways, fallen back into the old covenant of the law rather than moving forward into the New Covenant of Grace. God's process of purification is always directed forward from "who we were" to the revealing of "who we are" to the revealing of "who we will be".
God is bringing mankind from the outer court of "who we were" into the inner court where He reveals "who we are and who He is" into the Holy of Holies where He reveals "Who He truly is" and "who we will be like":
"A Son who is the exact representation of the Father"
But, as always, this is just my opinion.
Good thoughts Bro .
I enjoyed it greatly .
I recall from memory , left making a name for themselves , the right hand is a place of honor ...
God bless .
"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." (John 8:7)
In the earth has come a new beginning in perfection, for perfection in man is the unity of life in the Father, for Christ is that new beginning.
Put to death any judgment towards another as a sinner and show them grace, for that is the love of the Father
Quote from: jugghead on July 06, 2018, 09:38:02 PM
"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." (John 8:7)
In the earth has come a new beginning in perfection, for perfection in man is the unity of life in the Father, for Christ is that new beginning.
Put to death any judgment towards another as a sinner and show them grace, for that is the love of the Father
:goodpost:
Put to death any judgment towards another as a sinner and show them grace, for that is the love of the FatherWho's quote?
Quote from: Patinak on July 07, 2018, 08:44:49 AM
Quote from: jugghead on July 06, 2018, 09:38:02 PM
"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." (John 8:7)
In the earth has come a new beginning in perfection, for perfection in man is the unity of life in the Father, for Christ is that new beginning.
Put to death any judgment towards another as a sinner and show them grace, for that is the love of the Father
:goodpost:
Put to death any judgment towards another as a sinner and show them grace, for that is the love of the Father
Who's quote?
Christ's, in/by/through His Spirit in me (if you choose to believe it)
Quote from: jugghead on July 07, 2018, 10:41:24 AM
Quote from: Patinak on July 07, 2018, 08:44:49 AM
Quote from: jugghead on July 06, 2018, 09:38:02 PM
"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." (John 8:7)
In the earth has come a new beginning in perfection, for perfection in man is the unity of life in the Father, for Christ is that new beginning.
Put to death any judgment towards another as a sinner and show them grace, for that is the love of the Father
:goodpost:
Put to death any judgment towards another as a sinner and show them grace, for that is the love of the Father
Who's quote?
Christ's, in/by/through His Spirit in me (if you choose to believe it)
I thought it might be St. Paul... but St. Rick is good, too!
Quote from: Patinak on July 07, 2018, 07:41:46 PM
Quote from: jugghead on July 07, 2018, 10:41:24 AM
Quote from: Patinak on July 07, 2018, 08:44:49 AM
Quote from: jugghead on July 06, 2018, 09:38:02 PM
"He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." (John 8:7)
In the earth has come a new beginning in perfection, for perfection in man is the unity of life in the Father, for Christ is that new beginning.
Put to death any judgment towards another as a sinner and show them grace, for that is the love of the Father
:goodpost:
Put to death any judgment towards another as a sinner and show them grace, for that is the love of the Father
Who's quote?
Christ's, in/by/through His Spirit in me (if you choose to believe it)
I thought it might be St. Paul... but St. Rick is good, too!
Paul was a major contributor to it through his letter to the Romans, especially in what the law cannot do
Not until we are shown the "Wisdom in Love" can we love the wisdom of God
In other words: (without raising or lowering the authority of either above or below the other)
Not until we are shown "the Father in the Son" can a Son love the wisdom of the Father
The nature of man is corruption, it corrupts all that is good
It corrupted the old ..... corrupted "The Old Covenant of Law" by using it to accuse and judge others of sin, missing their own sin of, "the misuse of the law"
It corrupted the new ..... corrupted "The New Covenant of Grace" by using it as bait to bring others under or back under "The Old Covenant of the Law" by accusing and judging others they have not received forgiveness by the Grace of God; by the blood of Christ upon the cross, missing their own sin of, "the misuse of grace"
my :2c:
Seed for thought
Consciousness is life
Through the old self (the nature of the flesh), man uses consciousness/life as a way "to build" a way to "get to" God (which becomes the Tower of Babel)
Through the new self (the nature of the Spirit), God uses consciousness/life (that which is already built) as His way to "come to" us (which is the Tabernacle in the wilderness)
We have been given life; given consciousness and in this life/consciousness we have been given the ability to think, but more so to "think logically" (yes, MG, you came to mind)
By His Spirit "in" us ... He uses these things to "come to" us ... in order to understand that He IS "in us" AND in order to understand "what" He is doing "in us" ... (HIS WORK)
NOT
us using these things in order to build something to "get to" God (OUR WORK)
God is the builder and we are "HIS" workmanship (a Tabernacle, the means by which He comes to us which is Christ Jesus the Spirit of God)
NOT
we are the builder and God is "OUR" workmanship (A Tower of Babel, the means by which we get to God, which is the spirit of the world)
my :2c:
Definitely agree.
But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down), 7or 'WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)."
Quote from: eaglesway on July 21, 2018, 05:26:20 PM
Definitely agree.
But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down), 7or 'WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)."
A road being traveled has many miles, but one mile is not more or less significant than another
(or did I miss your point?)
Quote from: jugghead on July 21, 2018, 08:32:12 PM
Quote from: eaglesway on July 21, 2018, 05:26:20 PM
Definitely agree.
But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down), 7or 'WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)."
A road being traveled has many miles, but one mile is not more or less significant than another
(or did I miss your point?)
So, basically a circle? When talking about about eternity, this seems to be one of the best analogies to describe it. I will go into that a bit more in a post soon(once I get past some laziness :LH:)
LOL yea maybe I was a lil unclear. My point was to agree that we cant accomplish much in the flesh, in our own strength, or by the law. Only as we trust Him and wait upon Him and speak a word that we hear out of the Spirit, act out of the initiative and the life of the Spirit, can we avoid corruption. Religion destroys the very thing it proclaims. The Spirit edifies and vivifies and preserves freedom and purity and grace.
Quote from: eaglesway on July 22, 2018, 04:53:07 AM
LOL yea maybe I was a lil unclear. My point was to agree that we cant accomplish much in the flesh, in our own strength, or by the law. Only as we trust Him and wait upon Him and speak a word that we hear out of the Spirit, act out of the initiative and the life of the Spirit, can we avoid corruption. Religion destroys the very thing it proclaims. The Spirit edifies and vivifies and preserves freedom and purity and grace.
Agreed, but I do believe religion has it's purpose, that purpose being to teach the importance of the law. I view it as: we became subjected to the law (unwillingly) to be taught the importance of it. Just because we have been forgiven of our sins (past, present and future) doesn't give us a license to sin, because if we think that way, that we can do whatever we want because we know we will be forgiven for it ... that way of thinking is a revealing of a truth, the truth that we have no respect for the law of God and that it is good and more so that it is still important.
And I also believe that we cannot disregard one or the other, that the law of God is just as important as the grace of God in that the law of God should rule "in" our spirit "
over our flesh" and and the grace of God should rule "in" our spirit "
with His Spirit", and then by His grace we come to understand how much God loves us and then Love takes over in our (s)Spirit, and when we love as God loves ... the law is automatically and completely fulfilled/obeyed in us, by us and through us (with the understanding that the word "us" is pertaining to our own spirit and God's Spirit as one working together "as one") to be manifested in this world toward others.
my :2c:
Death is the result of believing you are not ....
for in that death you shall be dying ... dying from unbelief ...
becoming a shadow without form and void ....
When God shows us His end ... we see there are no ends ..... only new beginnings :HeartThrob:
:cloud9: He dropped something into my spirit along these lines. Death is what enables us to feel what He felt when Adam his son fell and "died". Can any of us imagine the true depth of grief until experiencing the death of a loved one? NO. And like with us, no amount of words can communicate the excruciating pain and make someone understand what cannot be fully understood without experience. Through this we know the depth of the wounding God felt with only one person or a few, but now multiply that times the billions that lived since then, and also "died", as a result of that one death. David saying though I make my bed in hell You are with me, was not just to communicate God's faithfulness, it was meant that we experience the very depth of the pain of separation, which is what death is. it's hard to accept, but without it, we could not be made perfect, because they have gone on cannot be made perfect without us, and that means that conversely we can't be made perfect/complete without them. Blessings....
Quote from: Cardinal on July 28, 2018, 11:55:02 PM
:cloud9: He dropped something into my spirit along these lines. Death is what enables us to feel what He felt when Adam his son fell and "died". Can any of us imagine the true depth of grief until experiencing the death of a loved one? NO. And like with us, no amount of words can communicate the excruciating pain and make someone understand what cannot be fully understood without experience. Through this we know the depth of the wounding God felt with only one person or a few, but now multiply that times the billions that lived since then, and also "died", as a result of that one death. David saying though I make my bed in hell You are with me, was not just to communicate God's faithfulness, it was meant that we experience the very depth of the pain of separation, which is what death is. it's hard to accept, but without it, we could not be made perfect, because they have gone on cannot be made perfect without us, and that means that conversely we can't be made perfect/complete without them. Blessings....
:iagree: Cardinal,
I once told my younger sister once (who is indoctrinated by ET) that we experience death so that we could know how God feels when we are separated from Him. She liked what I said but has not wavered from her beliefs, so I see it as a seed planted knowing that the truth does not return void.
And I also, very strongly believe what you said (what I highlighted with the addition of one word)
because they that have gone on cannot be made perfect without us, and that means that conversely we can't be made perfect/complete without them
:cloud9: Hey thanks, I missed adding that word.
Yes, it has become very real to me in the last few months, especially....Blessings :HeartThrob:
:2c:turningthe hearts of the father's unto the children,and the hearts of the children unto the father's.Oneness of all bodymembers
[allin Adamwhohave died raised up in Christ. The less honourable body member being accorded more honour[men still bound in
weak sinful flesh/not yet raised upin Christ's image/like HIM]when one member suffers the wholebody suffers.
we become a spectacle..and incidents in the daily lives of men onearth serve as 'foodfor thought'andthe perfecting of the raised hosts.
they watch interactions of men,also see how evil spirits devise wicked schemes etc to mislead,confuse,overcome men in thier daily lives,
they watch men with the same problems they had when they dweltin weak/corruptible flesh...and are healed by observing/analyzing
these didactic examples.in the lower body members in flesh..andtheir sin wounds actually help to heal the upper body members[raised]
just aswe are healedby Jesus stripes..as allmen areJesus'body members[CHRIST THE HEAD OF EVERY MAN/DEAD IN
TRESSPASS/PRODIGAL or born again alive by holy spirit] we all suffer for other's sake..just as Jesus did when He come in flesh.
This promotes oneness and love for fellow body members[all men]and turns the hearts of the father's unto the children and vice versa,
in this way BEAUTY[raised hosts]and BANDS[those still bound inclay bodies] become ONE/UNION.
are you willing to bear suffering affliction in your life that fellow body members raised up may be healed by witnessing your wounds?
if we allsuffer with Him..we shall all be glorified with Him. :2c:
Quote from: sheila on July 31, 2018, 10:03:09 AM
:2c:turningthe hearts of the father's unto the children,and the hearts of the children unto the father's.Oneness of all bodymembers
[allin Adamwhohave died raised up in Christ. The less honourable body member being accorded more honour[men still bound in
weak sinful flesh/not yet raised upin Christ's image/like HIM]when one member suffers the wholebody suffers.
we become a spectacle..and incidents in the daily lives of men onearth serve as 'foodfor thought'andthe perfecting of the raised hosts.
they watch interactions of men,also see how evil spirits devise wicked schemes etc to mislead,confuse,overcome men in thier daily lives,
they watch men with the same problems they had when they dweltin weak/corruptible flesh...and are healed by observing/analyzing
these didactic examples.in the lower body members in flesh..andtheir sin wounds actually help to heal the upper body members[raised]
just aswe are healedby Jesus stripes..as allmen areJesus'body members[CHRIST THE HEAD OF EVERY MAN/DEAD IN
TRESSPASS/PRODIGAL or born again alive by holy spirit] we all suffer for other's sake..just as Jesus did when He come in flesh.
This promotes oneness and love for fellow body members[all men]and turns the hearts of the father's unto the children and vice versa,
in this way BEAUTY[raised hosts]and BANDS[those still bound inclay bodies] become ONE/UNION.
are you willing to bear suffering affliction in your life that fellow body members raised up may be healed by witnessing your wounds?
if we allsuffer with Him..we shall all be glorified with Him. :2c:
And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites,which make a farthing. (Mark 12:42) Thank you sheila, for it is a farthing to this part (member)
Life itself is a substance and that substance is Life itself ... "it is" that "it is" ... and in Him we can see ... the "I am" that "I am" ... for in the Son we can see the Father ... and ... in the Father we can see the Son ... for they are One ... One in the same
The path of the eyelash closed, forms the grave and the flesh again is pulled down to cause darkness, but the path of the lash open forms the arch of the sky seen as light divided after the rain, this promise we shall walk in .... for He is Christ.
By the assumption of punishment for a wrong doing ..... we hide under the cover of the garden ..... in the shadow of it ..... not knowing it is the light of forgiveness searching for us
The shepherd does not punish the sheep for wandering off, He brings it back into the fold; back into His light of forgiveness, the pasture of which we eat of.
my :2c:
a more detailed explanation of what I believe as I promised in the thread "no man enters heaven"
for me it is like seeing the stages of development in understanding ..... that all will go through God's stages of understanding and that this world is just the first stage, it is like this physical universe is like the womb of our mother (Jerusalem) and that a born again experience in this world is just a taste of what it will be like when we physically die, born out of the physical into the spiritual and that being the full manifestation of the born again experience.
and again, for me, it is also like seeing the rich man and Lazarus, the rich man had everything he wanted here except what he needed ..... that one drop of water that would have germinated the seed of faith planted inside of him and broke the shell of the seed for the plant of God's understandings to start growing inside of himself, which can also be understood as Christ being formed in us ..... the rich man who is without God here will be like a beggar in the beginning of his life in the spiritual, but he will be in the bosom of Abraham, meaning he will be in the bosom of faith, anticipating and knowing that he will be given understanding when he begs/asks for it.
I myself see that there are six things we will receive from others in the spiritual (as well as here now, for His will is done on earth as it is in heaven)... those being knowledge, understanding and wisdom which will be given and enter the mind and we will also be given from others love, forgiveness, and compassion which will be given and enter the heart ..... but with the understanding that the mind and the heart are one in the spiritual and if we receive one of these things, we also receive the others, we will be given in part, but in the part, it also contains the whole and the whole is received by the one spirit that is both a heart and a mind .... and by this, it is a continuation of the healing process of our spirit being healed from the way we thought and acted while having physical life, which is the same as saying, "being healed from a fleshly way of thinking while we had physical life"
for me, in the spiritual, ALL things are motivated by Love which is the free giving of what we have to others and that all the fruits of the Spirit, including the fruit of knowledge, understanding and wisdom are contained and summed up in one word, that Word, being Love, which is the Father and Christ Jesus who is the exact representation of the Father, for if you have seen Me, you have seen the Father
this is what I believe and it is just an opinion, but it is the good news according to jugghead
Quote from: jugghead on August 09, 2018, 09:32:28 PM
By the assumption of punishment for a wrong doing ..... we hide under the cover of the garden ..... in the shadow of it ..... not knowing it is the light of forgiveness searching for us
The shepherd does not punish the sheep for wandering off, He brings it back into the fold; back into His light of forgiveness, the pasture of which we eat of.
my :2c:
I actually believe that the biggest reason for the 'atonement' is that the image of a crucified redeemer is a strong enough image to pierce every psyche.. I truly think it's we who have to forgive ourselves.. of flaws past and present.. That rationality includes with it - sooner or later - the ability to make choices. (Very limited, thank God! Literally.) So I found myself thinking, doesn't that change everything? And the more I thought about it to this day, it seems very logical (logic/logos) that yes, it does change everything. Changes the very fabric of life - well, I'm just waxing poetic right now.. (which I enjoy doing :laughing7: ) but it's true! Surely when He endowed thinking ability, a whole new world (tree?) 'came about'. Simple girl that I am, I figure since He can only be honest, there was that tree in the midst of the first garden of life. Oh yes I believe all that literally. I love it! What's better - or could be better - than a perfect garden? Just look at how creative He is!
:cloud9: "the lion will eat straw like the ox" this tells me I will one day find myself hugging a lion. And a bear, because it also says.. "..and the bear will graze with the cow." (Isaiah 11:7) Someplace in Isaiah it says "my people will be able to sleep in the forest.." I can't remember if it's "sleep in the forest" or be able to.. hmm, google?
Ezekiel 34:25 -
I will make a covenant of peace with my people and drive away the dangerous animals from the land. ... and rid the land of wild animals, so that they may dwell securely in the wilderness and sleep in the forest.
Isaiah 32:18 -
My people will live in peaceful dwelling places, in secure homes, in undisturbed places of ...I figure this may be referring to the millennium.. but the one about the lion eating straw like the ox, I think is later.. :Peace2:
:O I have to run.. and I haven't read your second post yet.. (how rude! :faint: back later..)
Amen Jugghead, it's all Good News! I'm sure life/living will be very full! :thumbsup: :cloud9: :gsmile:
Quote from: jugghead on August 14, 2018, 06:23:33 PM
a more detailed explanation of what I believe as I promised in the thread "no man enters heaven"
for me it is like seeing the stages of development in understanding ..... that all will go through God's stages of understanding and that this world is just the first stage, it is like this physical universe is like the womb of our mother (Jerusalem) and that a born again experience in this world is just a taste of what it will be like when we physically die, born out of the physical into the spiritual and that being the full manifestation of the born again experience.
and again, for me, it is also like seeing the rich man and Lazarus, the rich man had everything he wanted here except what he needed ..... that one drop of water that would have germinated the seed of faith planted inside of him and broke the shell of the seed for the plant of God's understandings to start growing inside of himself, which can also be understood as Christ being formed in us ..... the rich man who is without God here will be like a beggar in the beginning of his life in the spiritual, but he will be in the bosom of Abraham, meaning he will be in the bosom of faith, anticipating and knowing that he will be given understanding when he begs/asks for it.
I myself see that there are six things we will receive from others in the spiritual (as well as here now, for His will is done on earth as it is in heaven)... those being knowledge, understanding and wisdom which will be given and enter the mind and we will also be given from others love, forgiveness, and compassion which will be given and enter the heart ..... but with the understanding that the mind and the heart are one in the spiritual and if we receive one of these things, we also receive the others, we will be given in part, but in the part, it also contains the whole and the whole is received by the one spirit that is both a heart and a mind .... and by this, it is a continuation of the healing process of our spirit being healed from the way we thought and acted while having physical life, which is the same as saying, "being healed from a fleshly way of thinking while we had physical life"
for me, in the spiritual, ALL things are motivated by Love which is the free giving of what we have to others and that all the fruits of the Spirit, including the fruit of knowledge, understanding and wisdom are contained and summed up in one word, that Word, being Love, which is the Father and Christ Jesus who is the exact representation of the Father, for if you have seen Me, you have seen the Father
this is what I believe and it is just an opinion, but it is the good news according to jugghead
Just three of these gifts that you mention are blessings without measure...
"An intelligent heart acquires knowledge,
and the ear of the wise seeks knowledge" Proverbs 18:15
"This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Saviour, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" 1 Timothy 2
"Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight. Do not be wise in your own eyes..." Proverbs 3:5-7
"The unfolding of your words gives light; it imparts understanding to the simple" Psalm 119:130
"Who is like the wise? And who knows the interpretation of a thing? A man's wisdom makes his face shine, and the hardness of his face is changed" Ecclesiastes 8:1
Fortunate is the one who has all six gifts in fullness! Indeed, when God is All-in-All, so by definition these six must be there in fullness too – there cannot be enough gratitude to God for His own Wisdom and Foresight, and He cannot fail or be in error.
Great verses Lastpost! And "He cannot fail or be in error." :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :dsunny: A-men! ..and amen no such thing as too much gratitude for all He is... :HeartThrob:
A beautiful prophecy of the restoration of all things from Isaiah
Isaiah 11
1Then a shoot will spring from the stem of Jesse,
And a branch from his roots will bear fruit.
2The Spirit of the LORD will rest on Him,
The spirit of wisdom and understanding,
The spirit of counsel and strength,
The spirit of knowledge and the fear of the LORD.
3And He will delight in the fear of the LORD,
And He will not judge by what His eyes see,
Nor make a decision by what His ears hear;
4But with righteousness He will judge the poor,
And decide with fairness for the afflicted of the earth;
And He will strike the earth with the rod of His mouth,
And with the breath of His lips He will slay the wicked.
5Also righteousness will be the belt about His loins,
And faithfulness the belt about His waist.
6And the wolf will dwell with the lamb,
And the leopard will lie down with the young goat,
And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
And a little boy will lead them.
7Also the cow and the bear will graze,
Their young will lie down together,
And the lion will eat straw like the ox.
8The nursing child will play by the hole of the cobra,
And the weaned child will put his hand on the viper's den.
9They will not hurt or destroy in all My holy mountain,
For the earth will be full of the knowledge of the LORD
As the waters cover the sea.
10Then in that day
The nations will resort to the root of Jesse,
Who will stand as a signal for the peoples;
And His resting place will be glorious.
:cloud9: :cloud9: :cloud9:
Bondage is but a limit of the mind that keeps the heart in bondage; a prisoner to those limits
Free the heart from bondage; from the bondage of the mind and the impossible becomes possible, for only then can the renewing of the mind take place
which is His workmanship "in" us
:banana:
As I was reading some things on the board the other day, I was led to dig into the phrase "commit adultery" (G3431), I found it was taken from G3432 which means a (male) paramour
when I looked up the definition of a paramour, I found it's meaning to be "an illicit lover" and as I dug even farther, I found the word "illicit" to mean not legally permitted or authorized
in which I saw "an illicit lover" as "an unauthorized lover"
When Paul speaks of the letter of the law (in that it kills) the understanding of "an authorized lover" has no place in the letter of the law, and what I mean by that is:
If we are of the letter of the law we are an "unauthorized" lover, meaning that we have no authority to love a person if we are to carry out the law to the letter ..... we have to separate ourselves from that person in any type of relationship if the law is to be carried out to it's fullest extent (the letter), there is no room (no place) at all for mercy in the letter of the law
So, in conclusion, what I saw were the two extremes:
in the letter of the law you cannot love anyone including yourself, in which I believe means: we cannot show any favoritism to anyone including ourselves in the letter of the law
BUT THEN we have the other extreme
to love everyone the same, forgive everyone, again, showing no favoritism (no partiality)
Jesus said, "But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins" (Matthew 9:6, Mark 2:10, Luke 5:24)
We have been given the authorization to love (to forgive), we are "an authorized lover", we have been freed and no longer have to adhere to the letter of the law, and coming to the conclusion that we are no longer to be a mixture of both; forgiving to some but unforgiving to others
what I believe is meant by "an adulterous generation" is: showing partiality and that to commit adultery in a spiritual sense is; to show partiality, loving some but not loving all
and in conclusion to all this:
man's "spirit of the law" is condemnation "for" sin (which is a judgment "against" man)
WHEREAS
God's "Spirit of the law" is forgiveness "of" sin (which is a judgment "for" man) .....
which is: THE LAW OF LOVE
So, do not commit adultery against God's "Spirit of Love" with man's "spirit of law"
:2c:
When looking upon a people divided, it can cause a heart of unity to grieve
Success is not seeing the results ..... it is knowing the results will be accomplished before they are
for we walk by faith, not by sight ....
and it is speaking of things that are not as though they are
If the mind believes something is not possible, it veils itself to the possibility
and that unbelief becomes a death shroud to its heart
inappropriate attire for a wedding feast
I remember Rose said one time, when we speak to someone, give them a k.i.s.s. (keep it simple silly)
What is more simpler than this:
If a man "gives his word" to another is it not his promise to do something, is it not the same with God?
..... expect when God "gave His Word" it came in the form of a man
A corrupted flesh will not and cannot keep a promise, but to have the incorruptible Spirit it can make the flesh incorruptible by letting your "yes be yes and your no be no"
and when God gave His "ONLY" begotten Son, His only begotten Promise ..... it was to save the world from sin, His Promise for all men to come to the knowledge of the truth ...... the knowledge of "THIS" truth
Quote from: jugghead on September 27, 2018, 10:15:38 AM
I remember Rose said one time, when we speak to someone, give them a k.i.s.s. (keep it simple silly)
What is more simpler than this:
If a man "gives his word" to another is it not his promise to do something, is it not the same with God?
..... expect when God "gave His Word" it came in the form of a man
A corrupted flesh will not and cannot keep a promise, but to have the incorruptible Spirit it can make the flesh incorruptible by letting your "yes be yes and your no be no"
and when God gave His "ONLY" begotten Son, His only begotten Promise ..... it was to save the world from sin, His Promise for all men to come to the knowledge of the truth ...... the knowledge of "THIS" truth
:thumbsup:
:iagree:
If someone commits a sin against me, I do not require that they ask me for forgiveness, I can forgive them whether they ask me or not.
I also do not require that they believe that I forgave them because they have been forgiven by me whether they believe it or not.
If they choose to believe that I have forgiven them, then they are saved from their own unbelief that I did not forgive them.
Their unbelief does not nullify the fact that I have forgiven them.
If they choose to "not" believe that I have forgiven them, then they remain in the darkness of their own unbelief; they veil themselves from the Christ in me
His Heart of Forgiveness shines on all, believe in the Light of Forgiveness and be saved from the darkness of unbelief
Unbelief is the currency of the flesh ... whereas Belief is the currency of the Spirit, for we have been given His Spirit as a token of which God Himself will increase; will multiply into the riches of His Kingdom which is our inheritance.
:thumbsup: Amen, Jugghead!
Quote from: jugghead on September 27, 2018, 10:15:38 AM
I remember Rose said one time, when we speak to someone, give them a k.i.s.s. (keep it simple silly)
What is more simpler than this:
If a man "gives his word" to another is it not his promise to do something, is it not the same with God?
..... expect when God "gave His Word" it came in the form of a man
A corrupted flesh will not and cannot keep a promise, but to have the incorruptible Spirit it can make the flesh incorruptible by letting your "yes be yes and your no be no"
and when God gave His "ONLY" begotten Son, His only begotten Promise ..... it was to save the world from sin, His Promise for all men to come to the knowledge of the truth ...... the knowledge of "THIS" truth
:thumbsup: :banana: :dsunny: :cloud9: "keep it simple silly"! Love that! Wise lady that..
Quote from: jugghead on October 02, 2018, 07:22:22 PM
If someone commits a sin against me, I do not require that they ask me for forgiveness, I can forgive them whether they ask me or not.
I also do not require that they believe that I forgave them because they have been forgiven by me whether they believe it or not.
If they choose to believe that I have forgiven them, then they are saved from their own unbelief that I did not forgive them.
Their unbelief does not nullify the fact that I have forgiven them.
If they choose to "not" believe that I have forgiven them, then they remain in the darkness of their own unbelief; they veil themselves from the Christ in me
His Heart of Forgiveness shines on all, believe in the Light of Forgiveness and be saved from the darkness of unbelief
Unbelief is the currency of the flesh ... whereas Belief is the currency of the Spirit, for we have been given His Spirit as a token of which God Himself will increase; will multiply into the riches of His Kingdom which is our inheritance.
What I missed in all of this is: if I fail to tell them they have been forgiven by me ... that in itself can also keep that person in the darkness of unbelief, therefore my forgiveness has to be revealed to them .... for they have to hear it before they can even believe that it is true .... faith comes from hearing
Quote from: jugghead on October 02, 2018, 08:04:10 PM
Quote from: jugghead on October 02, 2018, 07:22:22 PM
If someone commits a sin against me, I do not require that they ask me for forgiveness, I can forgive them whether they ask me or not.
I also do not require that they believe that I forgave them because they have been forgiven by me whether they believe it or not.
If they choose to believe that I have forgiven them, then they are saved from their own unbelief that I did not forgive them.
Their unbelief does not nullify the fact that I have forgiven them.
If they choose to "not" believe that I have forgiven them, then they remain in the darkness of their own unbelief; they veil themselves from the Christ in me
His Heart of Forgiveness shines on all, believe in the Light of Forgiveness and be saved from the darkness of unbelief
Unbelief is the currency of the flesh ... whereas Belief is the currency of the Spirit, for we have been given His Spirit as a token of which God Himself will increase; will multiply into the riches of His Kingdom which is our inheritance.
What I missed in all of this is: if I fail to tell them they have been forgiven by me ... that in itself can also keep that person in the darkness of unbelief, therefore my forgiveness has to be revealed to them .... for they have to hear it before they can even believe that it is true .... faith comes from hearing
Thank you for sharing these inspired thoughts. If only...
In our Communion Service we say:
"Where Divine Love is, forgiveness and unforgiveness cease to exist; and for this we offer our heartfelt gratitude"
Quote from: lastpost on October 02, 2018, 10:02:50 PM
"Where Divine Love is, forgiveness and unforgiveness cease to exist; and for this we offer our heartfelt gratitude"
Amen Lastpost, where Love reigns there is no need for forgiveness for wrongs are not committed
As per request by Patinak .....
For me, the Lake of Fire is our "baptism by fire" it is our baptism into the Holy Spirit
and ALL will be cast into this "baptism by fire"
for it is only by being cast into this "Lake of Fire" (this Baptism) that we are shown that His love for us IS HIS burning passion for us to know how much He loves us
and if we do not believe this, then we can torture ourselves with our own unbelief that we are not loved
and hell can and will become a place of eternal torment; a place of on-going unbelief
and it is "this hell" that He is saving us from
All good things come from above and I fully believe that this comes from above :2c:
Thank you Pat, I don't know if you know the joy you have entitled me to by asking me to do this
:thumbsup: :Chinscratch: I never noticed just how very close the two are.. "lake" and baptism.. and baptism of fire when John the Baptist said He will baptize with fire and the Holy Spirit. I think 2 accounts say Holy Spirit, and 2 say with the Holy Spirit and fire (or vice versa). And He will gather the wheat and burn (away) the chaff.. away because, fire not quenched implies that..?
:smile: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
My thoughts of "the end of days"
To live "IN" the "end of days" is to live outside of time .... with days being plural and we move into the singularity of "a single day" (a single existence) .... that existence being a "spiritual existence" in where the physical exists for the purpose of understanding the spiritual.
I see (understand) things as this: this physical existence is like the ground a seed is planted in and then grows ...... understood as: our spirit is placed (planted) in this existence (ground) for the purpose of growing (growing in understanding) and that the death of our physical body is just like the growing plant breaking the surface of the ground into the sunlight, it is an unbroken existence; the unbroken existence of "GROWING" and God is the One who causes the growth; our growth in understanding; our growth in understanding what He is doing and why.
Darkness is our beginning; in other words; ignorance (our lack of understanding) is our beginning and that is what we are growing out of... taking in all the nutrients of the ground (this existence) in order to grow above ground (out of the grave) into the atmosphere to soak in the light.
The grave is a state of mind of which God created in order for us to understand what He is delivering us out of. In which "Sheol" is a "place" of darkness (ignorance) in which our spirit was placed in order to understand "death" ..... "death" being that which the mind conceived but God made manifest in the physical "FOR" the purpose of understanding "that" is what we are being saved (delivered) from.
For me, death has become so little that I can barely see it .... a blemish on our existence as "a whole"
For the mind of Christ sees it only as a blemish rather than blowing it all out of proportion as "filthy rags", we have gone beyond the letter of the word and hear what proceeds from the mouth of God; the Spirit of the Word in Love.
And.....another winner!
Quote from: jugghead on October 10, 2018, 06:53:08 AM
My thoughts of "the end of days"
To live "IN" the "end of days" is to live outside of time .... with days being plural and we move into the singularity of "a single day" (a single existence) .... that existence being a "spiritual existence" in where the physical exists for the purpose of understanding the spiritual.
I see (understand) things as this: this physical existence is like the ground a seed is planted in and then grows ...... understood as: our spirit is placed (planted) in this existence (ground) for the purpose of growing (growing in understanding) and that the death of our physical body is just like the growing plant breaking the surface of the ground into the sunlight, it is an unbroken existence; the unbroken existence of "GROWING" and God is the One who causes the growth; our growth in understanding; our growth in understanding what He is doing and why.
Darkness is our beginning; in other words; ignorance (our lack of understanding) is our beginning and that is what we are growing out of... taking in all the nutrients of the ground (this existence) in order to grow above ground (out of the grave) into the atmosphere to soak in the light.
The grave is a state of mind of which God created in order for us to understand what He is delivering us out of. In which "Sheol" is a "place" of darkness (ignorance) in which our spirit was placed in order to understand "death" ..... "death" being that which the mind conceived but God made manifest in the physical "FOR" the purpose of understanding "that" is what we are being saved (delivered) from.
For me, death has become so little that I can barely see it .... a blemish on our existence as "a whole"
For the mind of Christ sees it only as a blemish rather than blowing it all out of proportion as "filthy rags", we have gone beyond the letter of the word and hear what proceeds from the mouth of God; the Spirit of the Word in Love.
Thank you jugghead.
I like this so much not least because it is a continuous stream of life where nothing is broken, even when the seed breaks open, life emerges; even when the ground is broken, life emerges to bask in the growth-giving rays of the glorious sun; calmly and harmoniously continuing in unbroken and unending life in the Spirit.
Peace
It's funny - to me anyway - how believers can be so different, and can believe so differently.. But because of His grace there is no division.. and freedom to share without being thought an offense..
Over the years, as people I know and love, respect, etc, have died.. I have come to think of death - someone's not being there/here - as a horrible thing.. a tragedy.
I think this tragedy, seen in its true horrific light, is THE teaching tool of God. :gsmile:
As I see it, missing a loved one is a terrible thing, the cold, stark reality of seeming separation. But showing them that life is continuous is God's gift to man (for some anyway, a glimpse through the veil can be seen) – it is only the dark barrier created by man's wickedness which prevents the mother from seeing her child across the thick smoky veil - it was never God's intention, if only man had listened to Him in the beginning. But I believe that it is only a matter of time and the veil shall be thinned, but that is a way off in earthly years.
Apologies to jugghead
for taking up your thread
In Hebrews 11/12, it speaks of those who have gone before us are a cloud of witnesses. And, it says multiple verses that when He returns it will be in the clouds. I was shown recently that the focus isn't Jesus coming in literal clouds(though that may be the case too) that He will come with the cloud of witnesses.
So, when it says that we are caught up with Him and changed, where did those cloud of witnesses come from if they aren't alive and returning with Him? :dunno2:
This verse "cloud of witnesses" always makes me think of Judgment 'Day' when all things will be revealed and witnessed, I believe very much so..
The Greek and also the scripture, often speaks as though things are present.. like "we are seated in heavenly places with Jesus".. besides, the resurrection of those in Christ (afterlife/dead in Christ, which Paul said asleep in Christ, 1 thess 4) rise and those believers who are alive at the time, rise "and meet the lord at His coming" and "on that day His feet shall stand upon Mt of Olives" Zech 14:4.. from where He went up and the angels said, just as you saw Him go up so shall He return.. So Mount of Olives fits.. so yes all believers (firstfruits) meet him at His coming and 'land' with Him, so come with Him.. from which the millennial age shall proceed..
Quote from: lastpost on October 11, 2018, 11:24:18 PM
As I see it, missing a loved one is a terrible thing, the cold, stark reality of seeming separation. But showing them that life is continuous is God’s gift to man (for some anyway, a glimpse through the veil can be seen) – it is only the dark barrier created by man’s wickedness which prevents the mother from seeing her child across the thick smoky veil - it was never God's intention, if only man had listened to Him in the beginning. But I believe that it is only a matter of time and the veil shall be thinned, but that is a way off in earthly years.
Apologies to jugghead
for taking up your thread
I don't think you are quite getting what I mean.. But that's okay. :gsmile: I do however, think it was God's intention life be exactly as it is.. For it is proving, to all, how
the wrong way, of life not wholly submitted to Him - who
is life, surely? (imo) cannot ever work. It cannot be done (and endure). Because
He -
is life. (Also "is perfect"/perfection.. but to avoid imperfection, opposite of life and being, from existing.. there would have to never be any thinking creatures. Yes? So if we are to think and have the ability to reason, don't we need to understand good from evil? (Life from nonlife) Or..? ..You know.. as in when God endowed thinking ability, and is not programmed fully like some sort of robot.. didn't it change everything? Didn't a whole world of possibilities come about at that very second? Or a tree? Which only able to be honest and of Truth... there was that tree in the midst of the garden.. Quite purposely.. quite wisely.. :cloud9:
The wrong way can only result in apocalypse - in its modern understanding of the word. Individual and collective. And
that I believe, is the true meaning of the word, apocalypse - "the unveiling". Like lambs we surely have the capacity (along /w angels?) to be rather deaf and blind..
So really.. isn't experience the only way we would ever really get it? Harsh, cold
reality.. Face to face with the understanding of just what a horrible horror
the wrong way is. I believe history/review/judgment 'day' will be the witnessing. The final full bringing home of the message.. Besides drawing all through love, glory and unbelievable awe, I believe the harsh reality of just what
the wrong/forbidden way is, will also result in every knee bending and every heart "wholeheartedly" confessing/saying "Jesus is Lord". ) And in that way, of total convincing, understanding and clarity, God will not have to babysit "all in heaven and earth"
for ever and ever.. as they like to say.. :gsmile: :Peace2:
...I actually think we rob ourselves if we not allow ourselves to comprehend the true horror of death.. able to weep over news reports.. families losing members.. etc.. etc.. I believe the Holy Spirit.. for now.. very much is a weeping spirit.. I mean, if He
is life, doesn't He not only witness, but experience all sufferings which ever occur? :Chinscratch: Why put Himself, and all, through that? :dontknow: Maybe because it's not some sort of robots He's creating..
Hebrews 12
1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us
Not used to Biblehub, but here is a page on compassed
https://biblehub.com/topical/c/compassed.htm
17then we who are living, who are remaining over, together with them shall be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in air, and so always with the Lord we shall be
I just noticed something, that Hebrews 12 speaks of a "cloud" and 1 Thessalonians 4 speaks of "clouds." Sure that is significant of something.
And, it isn't the case of one cloud per person. Look at this verse:
Luke 9
34and as he was speaking these things, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them, and they feared in their entering into the cloud,
So, would these be living witnesses surrounding us? You know, if they were in higher dimensions than us, they would literally be surrounding us, them seeing us and not us seeing them.
A while ago I did a Strong's search on James 4:14. Don't vapors have to do with clouds? And, if I remember correctly, the phrase "vanish away" roots in basically hidden away, like we are hidden away in God. Also something about the light not exposing something.
just as water changes it's form when thefaceof the sun shines on it...and is drawnup into cloud form..so,too,we are changed..when
that which was mortal puts on immortality...for when we see Him face to face..we will be just like Him.
GLORY CLOUD...in the temple......when God come down. :2c:
Quote from: MusicLover123 on October 12, 2018, 05:14:46 PM
Hebrews 12
1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us
Not used to Biblehub, but here is a page on compassed
https://biblehub.com/topical/c/compassed.htm
17then we who are living, who are remaining over, together with them shall be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in air, and so always with the Lord we shall be
I just noticed something, that Hebrews 12 speaks of a "cloud" and 1 Thessalonians 4 speaks of "clouds." Sure that is significant of something.
And, it isn't the case of one cloud per person. Look at this verse:
Luke 9
34and as he was speaking these things, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them, and they feared in their entering into the cloud,
So, would these be living witnesses surrounding us? You know, if they were in higher dimensions than us, they would literally be surrounding us, them seeing us and not us seeing them.
A while ago I did a Strong's search on James 4:14. Don't vapors have to do with clouds? And, if I remember correctly, the phrase "vanish away" roots in basically hidden away, like we are hidden away in God. Also something about the light not exposing something.
I appreciate your insight, thank you.
I would perhaps say not only "surrounding" but existing simultaneously. We today are more aware of the possibility of a number of "invisible" realities passing through us and solid walls in a way not possible to imagine to those of times long past, and I therefore think that the human race today has a certain advantage when considering the existence of invisible beings.
I used that the word "intended" before but perhaps a better word is "preferred". I believe (and I know most others don't) that there were some of God's children who didn't fall as far as this material earth because they were in more reverence to the wishes of the Lord. And that is yet another reason for those who have fallen this far to accept their own responsibility; along with not blaming someone else, i.e. Adam, such as in the received form of the Genesis parable (as I believe it is).
It is my opinion that because God is Love, then He is at the centre of all, seeking each and every way that He can to help His children on their pilgrimage Home, adhering strictly to the laws which sustain an orderly existence which He has deemed essential for the restoration of His children; and He does not leave His children ignorant of physical death, and therefore gives the gift of the possibility of knowing that their departed loved ones live on, alive, well and happy, if they have followed their duty to the Divine Love of Christ. It is a gift, I have known it (in my opinion) for decades, and I treat it as very sacred personally; it presents to me a higher vision of the Love of God, and it is, in my opinion, the course of action that the dearest Divine Heart would take in contrast to letting His children suffer in ignorance more than they need to due to the veil created by fallen man as a whole. There are subtleties which generalisations do not make available, so that is the gist of my opinion.
Like we fell and it took God by surprise? And so He had/has to rescue us? (I agree we need saving. Without His intercession, the wages/result of sin is death..)
I feel lightning has to do with clouds too. A topic on lightning:
http://tentmaker.org/forum/discussions-on-universal-salvation/living-in-the-lightning-realm/
Quote from: sheila on October 12, 2018, 05:26:09 PM
just as water changes it's form when thefaceof the sun shines on it...and is drawnup into cloud form..so,too,we are changed..when
that which was mortal puts on immortality...for when we see Him face to face..we will be just like Him.
GLORY CLOUD...in the temple......when God come down. :2c:
:thumbsup:
-----------------
I think the only unseen entities the bible talks about are angels.. And it does say they are "watching". But I do think we will see more of the idea of 'ghosts' in the world however. And the study of weather surely is very fascinating.. And some of it is in the Old Testament..
Quote from: marie glen on October 12, 2018, 06:53:57 PM
Like we fell and it took God by surprise? And so He had/has to rescue us?
Most loving sentient people would prefer their children not to have painful accidents, so ask obedience to rules of personal care.
But if their children violate the rules of personal care, parents are not surprised should an accident happen. And they enter the healthcare system prepared for them.
Personally, I let Love be the Instructor. The reason I let Love be the Instructor is because I believe that the mind of man cannot fathom the heights of love and settles for less, so my rule is always that if it does not come up to the highest standards of Love then the mind of man has put the words together.
Further edit: jugghead's gems is one of the best threads I've come across on Tentmaker - thank you.
Do you believe in our pre-existence? Like we fell and became human? (Note, I do not ask this, because it's something I believe.)
Or did the human race all inherit the fall from Adam and Eve?
Isn't heaven coming to Earth? Or is it your belief the only purpose of creation (is it black and white? no color?) is to create souls only.. Or you believe we are the fallen rebel angels? So that the unseen (by us) is the only true reality? That the physical universe is a spiritual universe fallen into matter? Instead of the curse (entropy) come about because mankind through Adam was given dominion of the Earth and having fallen into imperfection (of character) the Earth too was subjected to imperfection.
And all of it "willingly subjected by God"... If that's true, God engineered the fall in Adam and Eve thus insuring all take this unavoidable(?) journey all together at once, since all of humanity upon Earth, God says came from Adam and Eve.. Or you think this is all metaphor somehow.. Not really 'accurately' true? God wanting all to remain mysteries..? If we weren't all in the loins of Adam.. What is your belief?
We are obviously, not at all understanding each other? :gsmile:
:Chinscratch: I was thinking, maybe cloud of witnesses is a turn of speech.. Is that an idiom? I can't remember.. A figure of speech.. a cliche.. I love cliches! I love to use them.. even old ones.. and I don't care if someone has never heard it before.. I love 'em that much..
I'm kind of leaning toward thinking that people will often want to metaphor what is literal, and make literal, what is metaphor.. :laughing7:
Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnessesG3144, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us
G3144
μάρτυς
martus
mar'-toos
Of uncertain affinity; a witness (literally [judicially] or figuratively [generally]); by analogy a "martyr": - martyr, record, witness.
Total KJV occurrences: 34
Is it fair to say that we are surrounded by hidden martyrs?
Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about withG2254 so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us
G2254
ἡμῖν
hēmin
hay-meen'
Dative plural of G1473; to (or for, with, by) us: - our, (for) us, we.
Total KJV occurrences: 179
G1473
ἐγώ
egō
eg-o'
A primary pronoun of the first person, "I" (only expressed when emphatic): - I, me. For the other cases and the plural see G1691, G1698, G1700, G2248, G2249, G2254, G2257, etc.
Total KJV occurrences: 368
Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us
G4029
περίκειμαι
perikeimai
per-ik'-i-mahee
From G4012 and G2749; to lie all around, that is, inclose, encircle, hamper (literally or figuratively): - be bound (compassed) with, hang about.
Total KJV occurrences: 5
G4012
περί
peri
per-ee'
From the base of G4008; properly through (all over), that is, around; figuratively with respect to; used in various applications, of place, cause or time (with the genitive case denoting the subject or occasion or superlative point; with the accusative case the locality, circuit, matter, circumstance or general period): - (there-) about, above, against, at, on behalf of, X and his company, which concern, (as) concerning, for, X how it will go with, ([there-, where-]) of, on, over, pertaining (to), for sake, X (e-) state, (as) touching, [where-] by (in), with. In compounds it retains substantially the same meaning of circuit (around), excess (beyond), or completeness (through).
Total KJV occurrences: 329
G4008
πέραν
peran
per'-an
Apparently the accusative case of an obsolete derivation of πείρω peirō (to "peirce"); through (as adverb or preposition), that is, across: - beyond, farther (other) side, over.
Total KJV occurrences: 23
G2749
κεῖμαι
keimai
ki'-mahee
Middle voice of a primary verb; to lie outstretched (literally or figuratively): - be (appointed, laid up, made, set), lay, lie. Compare G5087.
Total KJV occurrences: 26
A couple other interesting translations:
Rotherham Heb 12:1 Therefore, indeed, seeing that, we also, have encircling us, so great a cloud of witnesses, stripping off every incumbrance and the easily entangling sin, with endurance, let us be running, the race that is lying before us
TCNT Heb 12:1 Seeing, therefore, that there is on every side of us such a throng of witnesses, let us also lay aside everything that hinders us, and the sin that clings about us, and run with patient endurance the race that lies before us
JMNT Heb 12:1 By certain consequence, then, we also, continuously having so great a cloud of witnesses (spectators) environing us (lying around and encompassing us; surrounding us), putting off from ourselves all bulk (every weight; all that is prominent) and the easily-environing (skillfully-surrounding) failure (sin; error), we may through remaining under (patient endurance) be continuously running the racecourse continuously lying before us
Ah yes, just realized, thanks to the Cross Reference on Esword, that when it says "seeing" it is "by Faith." Don't forget that Paul mentions:
Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Rom 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
But I don' think that means there is a vast audience in heaven watching us as we live out our life.. I believe it to be a reference to 'day' of judgment when all things will be witnessed..
And the things we do not see - receiving in prayer, I don't think has to do with that either, but if I am praying for healing, or whatever, I give thanks for it, as though I already see it, and not as though I do not see it.. or more generally we believe in His return, etc, but we don't yet see it..
:Peace2:
Why not both? :LH:
Hebrews 11 speaks of those who have gone before us, so I think it makes sense for 12:1 to be a continuation of that.
We believe on the Son, right? He still exists right now, but we don't see Him yet. Unless He appears to you, which I hope I'm one of those people.
Paul spoke about s being a spectacle..and we are/ wings fullof eyes[wings=in spirit form-watching. Satan goes to and fro in the
earth..watching..and so does God's spirit and spirit creatures. it's like a big stage in heaven where newly risen hosts..watch everyday
occurrences in en'slives asdidacticexercize..but they also are able to see the invisible evil sprits at work..deceiving,manipulating
men..who are for the most part totally ignorant of their unseen adversary.
allover the world..people who appear to die...rise daily.....the are called the daily sacrifice.the orning andeveningsacrifices in the temple
represents man's life in this flesh being sacrificed so their spirit may dine/have communion with God in spirit form,forever.
a host[church body] was given against the daily sacrifices due to transgression.=church erroneously teaching against the rising
of man's spirit unto God at death. Moses had to stick to the pattern. andwhileitistrue that believers can sup in the spiritintoken
formwhile inourphysicalbody....the FULLNESS is when we leave this mortal body behind and put on immortality. :2c:
Quote from: sheila on October 13, 2018, 03:20:21 AM
....the FULLNESS is when we leave this mortal body behind and put on immortality. :2c:
That is worth more than :2c: to me
salt is to food like color is to black and white ..... if the color is not seen in it's true form, then it remains grey to the color blind
:Chinscratch: I never heard that before.. is it a teaching? That the last trump is at one's death? Is individual not collective?
Revelation 11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” (There's inserts after this in Rev which makes for confusion. A seeming big space between these verses and the two harvests (wheat & tares?) of chapter 14 ->
1 Thess. 4 -
...concerning those who have fallen asleep, that ye may not sorrow, as also the rest who have not hope,
14 for if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, so also God those asleep through Jesus he will bring with him,
15 for this to you we say in the word of the Lord, that we who are living -- who do remain over to the presence of the Lord -- may not precede those asleep,
16 because the Lord himself, in a shout, in the voice of a chief-messenger, and in the trump of God, shall come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall rise first,
17 then we who are living, who are remaining over, together with them shall be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in air, and so always with the Lord we shall be; (individual or collective?)
18 so, then, comfort ye one another in these words.
1 Corinthians 15 -
51 lo, I tell you a secret; we indeed shall not all sleep, and we all shall be changed;
52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet, for it shall sound, and the dead shall be raised, incorruptible, and we -- we shall be changed:
53 for it behoveth this corruptible to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality;
54 and when this corruptible may have put on incorruption, and this mortal may have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the word that hath been written, `The Death was swallowed up -- to victory;
55 where, O Death, thy sting? where, O Hades, thy victory?' - Paul is here, of course, quoting an Old Testament verse, which, of course, used the word sheol, not the Greek word hades which became a place of myth..
I have heard the teaching that judgment day is not collective, but is individual.. But that, to me, anyway, sounds like a lot of missed opportunity and rather disorganized and repetitive.. How many judgment days every day..
:Chinscratch:
I know it's also believed the first resurrection and the 2nd resurrection are also individual and not collective. A teaching?
Revelation chapter 20
And I saw a messenger coming down out of the heaven, having the key of the abyss, and a great chain over his hand,
2 and he laid hold on the dragon, the old serpent, who is Devil and Adversary, and did bind him a thousand years,
3 and he cast him to the abyss, and did shut him up, and put a seal upon him, that he may not lead astray the nations any more, till the thousand years may be finished; and after these it behoveth him to be loosed a little time.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them, and the souls of those who have been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus, and because of the word of God, and who did not bow before the beast, nor his image, and did not receive the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand, and they did live and reign with Christ the thousand years; -- It doesn't say those are the only ones who will live and serve Jesus for the thousand years. I know there is teaching which says the thousand years is metaphor and is actually occurring right now..
5 and the rest of the dead (who are these I wonder? according to the teaching) did not live again till the thousand years may be finished; this [other, previous, is] the first rising again.
6 Happy and holy [is] he who is having part in the first rising again; over these the second death hath not authority, but they shall be priests of God and of the Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years may be finished, the Adversary shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 and he shall go forth to lead the nations astray, that are in the four corners of the earth -- Gog and Magog -- to gather them together to war, of whom the number [is] as the sand of the sea;
9 and (in the vision) they did go up over the breadth of the land, and did surround the camp of the saints, and the beloved city, and there came down fire from God out of the heaven, and devoured them;
10 and the Devil, who is leading them astray, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where [are] the (world) beast/body and the false prophet/teacher/teaching (strong delusion of latter days), and they shall be tormented day and night -- to the ages of the ages.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and Him who is sitting upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven did flee away, and place was not found for them;
notice how the resurrection/2nd, occurs after the previous events, implying all will be resurrected.
12 and I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and scrolls were opened, and another scroll was opened, which is that of the life, and the dead were judged out of the things written in the scrolls -- according to their works;
13 and the sea did give up those dead in it, and the death and the hades did give up the dead in them, and they were judged, each one according to their works;
14 and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire -- this [is] the second death;
15 and if any one was [still?] not found written in the scroll of the life, he was cast to the lake of the fire.
John 5:28 - Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming when all who are in their graves will hear His voice..
Daniel 12:2 - And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting aionian contempt.
:2c:it is an individual hour for those who precede the collective time of end[of all flesh]No-one knows but God because each is in order.
Iam thefirstandIam the last...only God knows when the full number of His children have been reached. Jesus said'Look the fields are
already ripe to harvest...many white-hair old people ready to rise.aslong as the earth endures thereshall be planting[women
bearing children[wheat] and reaping..wheat gathered in barn/harvesting/men rising.Until the final end of all flesh[full number of Zionschildren]
Quote"Unless He appears to you, which I hope I'm one of those people"
How pleasant. He may not be seen with the physical eyes but He is never apart from His charge, therefore He is already persistently here, constantly now, unceasingly always, in the present, each moment as one moment, unchanging; and even if His charge should reject Him by listening to and believing the thoughts that tell him that He is not here, He never rejects His charge; such is the Nature of Divine Love. Of this I am as sure as my life. It is only thoughts which enter the awareness – accusing thoughts – which crop up and blind us to His continual Presence.
Sheila, personally my soul is lifted when someone declares life over death...
Quote"Paul spoke about s being a spectacle..and we are/ wings fullof eyes[wings=in spirit form-watching. Satan goes to and fro in the
earth..watching..and so does God's spirit and spirit creatures. it's like a big stage in heaven where newly risen hosts..watch everyday
occurrences in en'slives asdidacticexercize..but they also are able to see the invisible evil sprits at work..deceiving,manipulating
men..who are for the most part totally ignorant of their unseen adversary.
allover the world..people who appear to die...rise daily.....the are called the daily sacrifice.the orning andeveningsacrifices in the temple
represents man's life in this flesh being sacrificed so their spirit may dine/have communion with God in spirit form,forever.
a host[church body] was given against the daily sacrifices due to transgression.=church erroneously teaching against the rising
of man's spirit unto God at death. Moses had to stick to the pattern. andwhileitistrue that believers can sup in the spiritintoken
formwhile inourphysicalbody....the FULLNESS is when we leave this mortal body behind and put on immortality."
"it is an individual hour for those who precede the collective time of end[of all flesh]No-one knows but God because each is in order.
Iam thefirstandIam the last...only God knows when the full number of His children have been reached. Jesus said'Look the fields are
already ripe to harvest...many white-hair old people ready to rise.aslong as the earth endures thereshall be planting[women
bearing children[wheat] and reaping..wheat gathered in barn/harvesting/men rising.Until the final end of all flesh[full number of Zionschildren]"
"life and death I have set before thee, the blessing and the reviling; and thou hast fixed on life, so that thou dost live..."
Yes, thank you Sheila for that post.
And to you too ML, I appreciate the reminders in scripture you posted.
I do recently believe in the cloud of witnesses, the body of Christ, the "communion of saints." And that all in Christ are connected NOW. And more are grafted in every day in this life and the next. Jesus's work being done continually.
I am like you, I hope to see Jesus while in this earthly life, but I know He is with us regardless of sight and we will see Him soon.
Quote from: lastpost on October 13, 2018, 04:12:43 PM
How pleasant. He may not be seen with the physical eyes but He is never apart from His charge, therefore He is already persistently here, constantly now, unceasingly always, in the present, each moment as one moment, unchanging; and even if His charge should reject Him by listening to and believing the thoughts that tell him that He is not here, He never rejects His charge; such is the Nature of Divine Love. Of this I am as sure as my life. It is only thoughts which enter the awareness – accusing thoughts – which crop up and blind us to His continual Presence.
I know that, but I am referring to a physical manifestation, or a dream, or a vision. Like, a face to face encounter, and not just feeling His presence.
I know.
Actually, I wrote here a couple of inner viewings I have had of Christ but I have removed them because they are too personal.
I expect there are a thousand thousand ways that He through whom the universes were created can and does appear to those who wish to see Him – and many, many times wherever they are!
Quote from: lastpost on October 13, 2018, 06:48:55 PM
I know.
Actually, I wrote here a couple of inner viewings I have had of Christ but I have removed them because they are too personal.
I expect there are a thousand thousand ways that He through whom the universes were created can and does appear to those who wish to see Him – and many, many times wherever they are!
Amen yes He does. I saw Him with my physical eyes, fully formed in a man. The man's flesh was like transparent to me, I saw and felt His presence, and all I could do in shock was to pat His face, sobbing, telling Him how much I love Him. Before this trip I was sent on by Him to Oklahoma where I saw Him like this, He had spoken to me that I was on the road to Emmaus, about to see Him in another form. At the time, I had NO idea what that was going to entail. Near the end of the month I spent there, this happened, and as I said, I was shocked. Blessings.... :friendstu:
Wanted to post here, what I wrote in another thread ......
I myself believe that "the end of our faith" is seen in where the word "faith" is originally taken from, it is taken from the word that means "to convince"
so if we see "the end of our faith" ..... AS ..... "the end of our convincing" ... of which "that convincing" comes from HIS SPIRIT ... then the end of our convincing becomes "TO KNOW"
and also ... "faith" also includes "believing" ..... we need to believe what we are being convinced of by His Spirit
early in my walk, (after my experience but before I believed) I did not believe the possibility of "the salvation of all" ... what I became convinced of ... by/through His Spirit is that "all things are possible with God" and if all things are possible, then the salvation of all had to become a possibility of truth IN me (baptism of water).... and then by believing in that possibility ... He then proceeded to convince me "HOW" it is possible (baptism of fire)
of which .... all of this just explains the process that "all" will go through .... which is like what Cardinal said "a baptism" it is both a baptism of water and a baptism of fire
the baptism by water IN me was to believe the possibility ..... the baptism by fire was being CONVINCED of what I believed was possible
and being convinced BY HIS SPIRIT is "to know"
of which, this all goes back to merks original opening post of "saved" and "healed" in an understanding that our "ignorance" (our lack of understanding) is a darkness of the mind, in other words "a blindness" of the mind ..... that when we are "healed" from that blindness, we are being "saved" from our lack of understanding (our ignorance).
Being "healed" from blindness ..... IS ..... being "saved" from a lack of understanding
and the proof of this understanding is in Matthew 15 .... where Jesus compares the blindness of the Pharisees to the lack of understanding of the disciples
..... IN "all things" ..... the glory of the Lord is revealed, and I believe HIS GLORY "IS" His process of salvation and understanding "how" He is accomplishing it through what was accomplished at the cross
my :2c:
Just like a light is turned on in a dark room and reveals the contents of the room ..... so does understanding reveal the contents of the heart
has the heart entered into the new covenant of grace resulting in forgiveness
OR
has the heart remained under the old covenant of the law resulting in condemnation
Does our own heart bring life (forgiveness) to others under grace
OR
Does our own heart bring death (condemnation) to others under law
Amen! :dsunny: :HeartThrob: ....'hell' if it existed, would be of "law", not grace.. would not logically fit into a system of "grace"?
Quote from: marie glen on October 26, 2018, 10:23:21 PM
Amen! :dsunny: :HeartThrob: ....'hell' if it existed, would be of "law", not grace.. would not logically fit into a system of "grace"?
Exactly ..... which is why ... I myself ... do not believe Armageddon is or will become "hell on earth"
I believe Armageddon is something that takes place "in" us and that the
giving of life puts death to death and that "putting death to death" is Armageddon itself
my :2c:
So much to write about and not enough time in this work existence to do it. But even that concept, in the context of time, is an example of being impatient. Why are we in such a hurry to get the news out when God isn't? We live in this physical existence and know that at some point within this existence, we will cease to be directly connected to it through the means of our physical body; in other words, we know this physical body will die.
When we come to understand things through and by His Spirit, we should no longer fear the death of this physical body. The apostle Paul tells us that in the words "to die is gain" and through the words "absent from the body, present with the Lord". To look upon mankind and see that the majority of people live in fear, the fear of not knowing what will happen once they have crossed over, is to mourn for them; to weep for them ..... of which is exactly what I believe is a deeper understanding of "Jesus wept". I believe He was weeping for those who were weeping because they did not understand the purpose of the death of the physical body.
But just as we cross over from infancy into childhood, and then from childhood into adulthood, it is this physical example of understanding that can bring peace to the mind of the one who chooses to believe that our own spiritual life, in itself, is this journey of our spirit.
What I mean by this is seeing the bigger picture of the process of growing up. We started out in the presence of our Lord as an infant, then at some point during the process of growing into maturity, we then are crossing over into childhood. The thing is with this understanding, there is no definite line as to know an exact point this takes place.
We know in this physical existence that at some point in a child's life it can start to rebel against it's parents, the first examples being, that the child does not want to do what the parent is asking. I believe it is before this point of rebellion in the heavenly; the spiritual realm, that we are then sent into a physical body so that we can fully understand what rebellion causes, so that at the point of the physical death of the body, we return with everything we need to know in what rebellion causes. This physical existence was created by God so that our spirit would not corrupt the heavenly with our rebellious ways.
To put this into perspective, is to understand that we start out in the heavenly; the spiritual existence, being an infant. We then are sent into the physical existence, of which is our growing period of childhood into adulthood. Then when this growing period ends; meaning our physical body dies, we then return to the spiritual existence to move into adulthood by what we experienced in the physical.
This understanding, is just a more detailed explanation of: our focus is not to be in an understanding of;
a physical being that has spiritual experiences, even though it can be understood in this way,
but that our focus is to be on;
a spiritual being that has physical experiences,
of which, I believe is summed up in "focus on the things above".
If we believe that this physical existence is just part of our growing process, then we should have no reason to fear the death of our physical body, of which, I believe, is a greater understanding of "love casts out fear" because since "God is Love" and He wants us to come to the knowledge of the truth, fear is cast out when we fully believe that this existence is "just a part" of our growing process in the Spirit, our growing in "The Spirit of Love".
We all live the life of Christ, starting out with being with the Father, being sent into the physical and then returning to the Father
of which, I believe is a deeper understanding of "a wheel inside a wheel" ..... understood in the concept of
"a physical life" inside of "a spiritual life"
"AND"
"a spiritual life" inside of "a physical life"
...... and understanding that both are taking place at the same time.
my :2c:
Quote from: jugghead on November 03, 2018, 05:04:13 PM
Quote from: marie glen on October 26, 2018, 10:23:21 PM
Amen! :dsunny: :HeartThrob: ....'hell' if it existed, would be of "law", not grace.. would not logically fit into a system of "grace"?
Exactly ..... which is why ... I myself ... do not believe Armageddon is or will become "hell on earth"
I believe Armageddon is something that takes place "in" us and that the giving of life puts death to death and that :dsunny: :girlheart:"putting death to death" is Armageddon itself
my :2c:
I would believe that if not for history, the world and also current events/history to be.. Also past prophecies have occurred, both of Messiah.. of Israel and of surrounding nations..
I see a literal "strong delusion" Paul spoke of, in latter days which would cause a "falling away" from the faith, which is occurring in western civilization once called Christendom. Jude said in latter days .. scoffers, ppl making fun of God as the Contemporary English Version puts it.
And I see a huge "earthshaking" fire which changed the fabric of modern life in 1945 (Rev.13:13 & 6:12-17). But you are not alone in not seeing these things.
Quote from: marie glen on November 04, 2018, 05:14:48 PM
Quote from: jugghead on November 03, 2018, 05:04:13 PM
Quote from: marie glen on October 26, 2018, 10:23:21 PM
Amen! :dsunny: :HeartThrob: ....'hell' if it existed, would be of "law", not grace.. would not logically fit into a system of "grace"?
Exactly ..... which is why ... I myself ... do not believe Armageddon is or will become "hell on earth"
I believe Armageddon is something that takes place "in" us and that the giving of life puts death to death and that :dsunny: :girlheart:"putting death to death" is Armageddon itself
my :2c:
I would believe that if not for history, the world and also current events/history to be.. Also past prophecies have occurred, both of Messiah.. of Israel and of surrounding nations..
I see a literal "strong delusion" Paul spoke of, in latter days which would cause a "falling away" from the faith, which is occurring in western civilization once called Christendom. Jude said in latter days .. scoffers, ppl making fun of God as the Contemporary English Version puts it.
And I see a huge "earthshaking" fire which changed the fabric of modern life in 1945 (Rev.13:13 & 6:12-17). But you are not alone in not seeing these things.
I am not saying that it can't happen ..... I am just saying ..... I don't believe it will and that is because of things that I have come to understand and that is because God does not "instill" fear of the future ... He casts it out
Quote from: jugghead on November 04, 2018, 04:53:36 PM
So much to write about and not enough time in this work existence to do it. But even that concept, in the context of time, is an example of being impatient. Why are we in such a hurry to get the news out when God isn't? We live in this physical existence and know that at some point within this existence, we will cease to be directly connected to it through the means of our physical body; in other words, we know this physical body will die.
When we come to understand things through and by His Spirit, we should no longer fear the death of this physical body. The apostle Paul tells us that in the words "to die is gain" and through the words "absent from the body, present with the Lord". To look upon mankind and see that the majority of people live in fear, the fear of not knowing what will happen once they have crossed over, is to mourn for them; to weep for them ..... of which is exactly what I believe is a deeper understanding of "Jesus wept". I believe He was weeping for those who were weeping because they did not understand the purpose of the death of the physical body.
But just as we cross over from infancy into childhood, and then from childhood into adulthood, it is this physical example of understanding that can bring peace to the mind of the one who chooses to believe that our own spiritual life, in itself, is this journey of our spirit.
What I mean by this is seeing the bigger picture of the process of growing up. We started out in the presence of our Lord as an infant, then at some point during the process of growing into maturity, we then are crossing over into childhood. The thing is with this understanding, there is no definite line as to know an exact point this takes place.
We know in this physical existence that at some point in a child's life it can start to rebel against it's parents, the first examples being, that the child does not want to do what the parent is asking. I believe it is before this point of rebellion in the heavenly; the spiritual realm, that we are then sent into a physical body so that we can fully understand what rebellion causes, so that at the point of the physical death of the body, we return with everything we need to know in what rebellion causes. This physical existence was created by God so that our spirit would not corrupt the heavenly with our rebellious ways.
To put this into perspective, is to understand that we start out in the heavenly; the spiritual existence, being an infant. We then are sent into the physical existence, of which is our growing period of childhood into adulthood. Then when this growing period ends; meaning our physical body dies, we then return to the spiritual existence to move into adulthood by what we experienced in the physical.
This understanding, is just a more detailed explanation of: our focus is not to be in an understanding of;
a physical being that has spiritual experiences, even though it can be understood in this way,
but that our focus is to be on;
a spiritual being that has physical experiences,
of which, I believe is summed up in "focus on the things above".
If we believe that this physical existence is just part of our growing process, then we should have no reason to fear the death of our physical body, of which, I believe, is a greater understanding of "love casts out fear" because since "God is Love" and He wants us to come to the knowledge of the truth, fear is cast out when we fully believe that this existence is "just a part" of our growing process in the Spirit, our growing in "The Spirit of Love".
We all live the life of Christ, starting out with being with the Father, being sent into the physical and then returning to the Father
of which, I believe is a deeper understanding of "a wheel inside a wheel" ..... understood in the concept of
"a physical life" inside of "a spiritual life"
"AND"
"a spiritual life" inside of "a physical life"
...... and understanding that both are taking place at the same time.
my :2c:
I think when there was 'only' the spiritual - following an order I think is in the word, when there was 'only' the father, the son, God's Spirit/Presence and then after who knows how long, the angels.. as I think there is "only one who is immortal" - I don't think there was all that much to go astray about.. (Evidence the Father's patience.. for that first rebel rumination to sprout.. and then to grow to maturity.. before creating the universe and man and woman.
Wherein in the (majestic) physical that God has formed (atoms vibrating, numbers, music, letters, colors) there is much more to go astray about.. to grasp, etc..
And so, this journey (lesson) through imperfection is unavoidable. All "in heaven and earth" must learn good from evil (which, I believe, is also life from death,imo-"lack of life" and true from not true). Also has to be learned that evil is the exact opposite of live. To wander from God, Who is Life in essence, cannot be done. For He is Perfect, and life, making imperfection the opposite of life.
I read recently the two creation accounts in Genesis 1 and 2 are - 1, the draft/frame?; and 2, the activation. This makes sense to me, and the same geneticists said God has all our original dna - which was in Adam.
I don't believe the plan/blueprint is to be only spiritual.. or to be disembodied.. but to be restored to the original blueprint.. not that this all (life as we presently know it) isn't also in His 'blueprint' as a
foundation/lesson.
And I believe our 'new bodies' will be the originals that were in Adam.. and the Earth, the garden and our bodies will be as they were originally before the wayward way (which is, imo, apocalypse. The wayward way matures and is apocalypse in our modern understanding of it, of collapse and yes, ruin. The world built on sand.. But we know "all things" will be "made new" .."the heavens and earth will be dissolved, but we look for a new heavens and earth, wherein righteousness is to dwell"/rule.
:Peace2: :cloud9:
P.S - I'm not afraid of the future and don't think we should be.. but for the folks of that day, forewarned may prevent un-necessary experience..
I believe more in a combination of your view with the literal view of scripture.
The only reason I ever mention the [end' of the story the way "history" turns out, isn't because of an obsession with Armageddon or anything.. [believe me.. even tho the bk of rev says blessed are those who read and heed, most folks put their fingers in their ears and cry 'lalalalalalalalala' :laughing7: :girlheart: And figure there's something seriously wrong with whoever reads it, let alone mentions it in conversation.
But to me, in a sense, it's the whole story - simply this - there's only 2 ways - and the wayward way is to build your house on sand.
Or another way to say it is, God's way or no way, because He IS life.
Or, "the wages, result of sin is death"
And - all fiery trials and retribution is earthy consequences not an angry God breathing fire upon us.. :HeartThrob: ..especially not 'forever' or outside of time.. ..to me bible prophecy is like what God said to Adam and Eve in Eden after their error.. People read it as God pronouncing a curse.. but I just think it was logic.. for example, "man would rule over woman".. because God decreed it? Or because, logically, being bigger and stronger, and fallen/flawed/imperfect.. it was going to occur..
Quote from Dandelion in the thread about the second coming:
Quote
Jesus said we will be caught off guard, and we will be living our lives when all of a sudden, the time will be here.
This is exactly what happened to me on December 12, 2005, I was working like any other day, listening to a Christian radion station, when all of a sudden something happened and I knew for a fact something was different.
For me, I do not have to believe that Christ will return again in the way most people think, for all we know, His second coming is "IN" us on an individual basis, and that the understanding that we were told of
the flood to come is now to see "a people" as the flood, were not those of the teachings of Christ the first 500 years or so teaching "UR"? but then, just as the waters receded in the time of Noah, so did the understanding of "UR" ..... and now we too are part of it in that we that believe in UR are the "latter rain".
For me, I can go as far as believing that "His people" (us) are His second coming.
And of course, I already know that there is plenty to contradict this in Scripture, but I do my best to live by "the Spirit of the Word" not by "the letter of it"
my :2c:
Quote from: jugghead on November 14, 2018, 03:06:18 PM
And of course, I already know that there is plenty to contradict this in Scripture, but I do my best to live by "the Spirit of the Word" not by "the letter of it"
my :2c:
A lot of facets to your overall statements, including interpretation, revelation, etc., so not really addressing that. A quick thought though for possible further consideration :) ; I personally understand per Paul's writings, the "letter" in scripture refers specifically to the Law, not whatever else is plainly written.
Quote from: jabcat on November 14, 2018, 07:39:27 PM
Quote from: jugghead on November 14, 2018, 03:06:18 PM
And of course, I already know that there is plenty to contradict this in Scripture, but I do my best to live by "the Spirit of the Word" not by "the letter of it"
my :2c:
A lot of facets to your overall statements, including interpretation, revelation, etc., so not really addressing that. A quick thought though for possible further consideration :) ; I personally understand per Paul's writings, the "letter" in scripture refers specifically to the Law, not whatever else is plainly written.
No further considerations necessary, I will be saying good bye, truth has no limits - it is infinite, that was my last post
I have enjoyed my time here and have learned a lot, I love you all
Blessings to all
Rick
(a.k.a. jugghead)
At this rate, everyone is going to be gone from this forum :/
Rick, please re-consider. You have some of the most enlightening and uplifting posts on Tentmaker. We don't want to lose you.
We have all lost loved ones in this life, and every time someone leaves the forum, it's like losing a family member.
Pat
IMO the difference between "the letter" and "the spirit" is about how the "logos" is perceived and applied, and can involved anything written, spoken, heard. For example, Jesus said, "If the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness".
If I have a log in my eye, I am always applying the word to others rather than myself, making the the "two edged sword" one edged, and of no effect.
Jesus said the the Pharisees, "You know neither the scriptures nor the power of God"
He did not mean they did not "know"- as in unfamiliarity. they knew all the verses. They did not understand the "intent" or "God's perspective" from His heart.
They did not properly discern His priorities. They strained at gnats as they swallowed camels.
Jesus was the word of God incarnate, yet He said, "39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life."
Right there He made a distinction between se3arching the scriptures and having true "koinonea" with Him.
John said, "If you walk in the light as He is in the light you will hsve fellowship(koinonea- communion, oneness) with one another and the blood of Jesus will cleanse you from all sin.
The cleansing comes in union as we fellowship together, experiencing the "three way" relationship with God, ourselves as individuals, and our brothers and sisters.
That is the difference between the "tree of life" and the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil".
To some extent we all eat from both trees (should a well give forth both sweet and bitter waters?"- yet it is so, we all do). It is in the holy temple of koinonea that the light shines and divides life from death. This is why it is so important we forbear one another and labor in love to share in the "spirit"....not in the "letter".
The letter allows us to be "correct" on the surface in terms of knowledge- while being "incorrect" in terms of God's core purpose- which is that we love one another, value wisdom and humility, and lay out our interpretations as lightly as we can.
Two words the Lord gave to me in a time when I was seeking to serve Him in the mode of the men of God I respected as a young man(self assured and heavy handed) were.....
"Take one step backward"- This during a time of intense prayer as to how I should apply my self in His work.
"Take one step down"- This in a dream about seeking to preach the gospel in a town where I was having no fruit from my work.
I was walking in my own strength. (jesus to peter- "When you were young you girded yourself and went where you would...when you are old anot5her will gird you and take you where you would rather not go") I needed to take a step back, and get behind the Lord, and walk in meekness, following His lead...but it was difficult, because I was(in mixture of soul and spirit) seeking my own glory. It was years tho before I understood that first word.
I was walking in arrogance, self assured that my knowledge in the word was sufficient. I "knew more than all my teachers', but I did not yet understand the Master's ways. I needed to step down into humility, which I understood clearly inmy head from all the scriptures and from Andrew Murrays wonderful book on the subject( among others)- but I was not yet broken and could not be humble in my heart because I had not yet let myself be fully humbled.
I had the letter on humility and it was killing me because I did not have the spirit of humility- the reality of it.
It is very possible to be "in the letter" about the "salvation of all", or anything else, but fear not, little one, God is faithful. if you are in the letter, it will kill you, and in that painful but beautiful death, you will find life "in the spirit" if you are not discouraged- and press on.
There is a verse, "Fall on the rock and be broken before the rock falls on you and you are ground into powder".
I find I am always being ground into powder and sifted because i am rarely instant enough to discern and obey- but God, for some beautiful reason continues to lead me in paths of righteousness for His name sake.
When words, and the knowledge they represent, become disconnected from love, or transcend humility, they do not heal. They divide. No "koinonea", no flow of living water through the Vine, fruit from the tree of life, no leaves for the healing of the nations. We here at Tentmaker have the privilege of sharing these glorious things. I pray that we dont "miss the mark". fellowship on the internet in a forum such as this is hard because there is not time for proper discourse, for looking into eyes and hearts. Its a shame, but at present it is all we got ;o) Lets cherish it.
I agree we should season everything with love, walk in the Spirit, look for better understanding - and again, always in love. And that we should definitely not be a pharisee, walking around in pride spouting scripture just to impress or harm anyone, not attempting to live it ourselves (they of course were also, and primarily at fault, for rejecting Jesus as Messiah and thus not having their hearts changed). I agree the letter/Spirit can have wider-spread judicious application beyond what I believe to be the very primary context of the 'letter kills but the Spirit brings life', as referencing the Law vs. living in Christ. I also believe it's often misapplied. I don't believe it means that I can or should use my own imagination or will (raises hand, done it) and ignore or reject what is clearly written, just because something else feels more right or "spiritual". I think I know you well enough to know you also agree with that. :) As you said, sometimes in black and white of writing, things can sound a little different than what is actually believed or meant.
The point you make I'd also recently thought, that being "killed" is not necessarily a bad thing. Paul talked about the Law (Letter) killing him, that he wouldn't know there was sin without it, and it was painful. But further, he was then made alive, in the Spirit, in Christ. He also said "the logos of God is alive and powerful, sharper than a two edged sword..separating..". To me, we shouldn't try to live by the letter/Law, because we can't - nor should we try to live only by reading scripture without Christ, because we can't. As Paul said, that doesn't make those things bad or wrong, it's just that we need the Spirit/Christ to be alive, and then they are a lamp unto our feet. Tandem.
Blessings.
I sincerely hope you don't leave, jugghead.
We are all stumbling in the dark, but yet, we are often the spark for one another, to gain a glimpse into the wonderous Light.
Let's muddle through, when we need to, yet realize what a pearl of great price we have found here. Let's have the courage, the persistence, the yearning for learning and for truth, though illusive, to keep going.....despite our feelings.
And, we can't forget that if we do anything without love, then all is lost, anyway. So, hang in for that love that exists on this site, between all of us seekers, if for nothing else. The love we have for God, for our Victorious Gospel, and for the unity....and, even the differences.....that hold us together. And, may I add, for the memory of Gary, Michelle, and those who have forged ahead of us.
D.
Oh my, Dandelion, that was so beautiful! Thank you! I was so blessed reading it, and you are SO right!
:happyclap: :cloud9:
:gimpossible: JH don't go! we love ya!
P.S - after looking through all the emoji's and after posting this an image jumped to mind of the little cheerleader emoji and the phrase heck no! he won't go.. I just wanted to let everyone know I've totally lost it..
( :mlaugh: )
Immediate reaction is of the flesh ... and ... repentance is of the Spirit
repentance being defined as: to think differently; to reason; reconsider
I apologize for my reaction and I can't help but speak of things that come from the very depth of my soul
and when things are not understood in the way I have seen them, it is, as if I die
when I write, which is the giving of "my word" to others ... it is as: me giving you my Christ, the Christ in me
I have become very sensitive to rejection and a lot of times it feels like my heart has been stabbed by what others say, my passion for His Word and what I have come to understand runs very deep and I do not like feeling death (although I know it is necessary at times)
I agree that the "letter" applies to the law and that it is a primary understanding, but I also see it as "a beginning" OF an understanding, not just an end.
This last week while I was driving and meditating on my daily bread, I was given an "image" of limit, what I mean by that is; to limit something is to hold it back, to place shakles upon it (the shakle was the image) and what we bind on the earth will be bound in heaven and what we loose on earth will be loosed in heaven
I do not want and can't place shakles on what has been loosed in my mind "on earth" for in doing so, it is loosed in my heart "in heaven" for where my teasure is, so is my heart.
Blessings brothers and sisters
:Peace2: :girlheart:
A thing I have to overcome is thinking if someone says such and such of the scripture is metaphor or simile, it may not mean they reject the literal occurrence, etc. For I too intensely love and am deeply attached to Jesus within, and I love the Word Which was manifest as Jesus.. firstborn, forever preeminent.. the prototype if you will..
And so I also am hoping all those who read the metaphor lesson and learning/insight, do not consider the literal to be cancelled. I mean metaphor comes from literal, doesn’t it? So to me all metaphor should tie back to - the news of the Kingdom coming, which Jesus preached, and the news of Christ Crucified, which Paul was so grace-fully taught and was inspired to teach, spread and write.
I have to guard against assuming a metaphor application means the straight out, what Jesus said, etc, is being rejected. I believe in the spiritual message of things.. absolutely, but also the literal. I don’t think they have to be always exclusive of one another.
God bless you brother! :gsmile:
Quote from: marie glen on November 23, 2018, 06:25:42 PM
:Peace2: :girlheart:
A thing I have to overcome is thinking if someone says such and such of the scripture is metaphor or simile, it may not mean they reject the literal occurrence, etc. For I too intensely love and am deeply attached to Jesus within, and I love the Word Which was manifest as Jesus.. firstborn, forever preeminent.. the prototype if you will..
And so I also am hoping all those who read the metaphor lesson and learning/insight, do not consider the literal to be cancelled. I mean metaphor comes from literal, doesn't it? So to me all metaphor should tie back to - the news of the Kingdom coming, which Jesus preached, and the news of Christ Crucified, which Paul was so grace-fully taught and was inspired to teach, spread and write.
I have to guard against assuming a metaphor application means the straight out, what Jesus said, etc, is being rejected. I believe in the spiritual message of things.. absolutely, but also the literal. I don't think they have to be always exclusive of one another.
God bless you brother! :gsmile:
It seems, to me at least, especially on these boards, the most "Spiritual interpretation" is to apply everything to yourself. I'm not too sure how I feel about that. If you suggest any of it having real world significance, well nope! The supposed "correct way" cannot be applying in any "literal" significance.
Welcome back Rick! Hope you enjoyed your short vacation.
So, does that mean we can say, Welcome Back, jugghead?
I do hope so!
D.
The forgiveness of sins is the life hidden within the hardness of the shell of the condemnation for sin, not until the shell is broken and falls away can the life within begin to grow
Quote from: MusicLover123 on November 23, 2018, 09:32:28 PM
Quote from: marie glen on November 23, 2018, 06:25:42 PM
:Peace2: :girlheart:
A thing I have to overcome is thinking if someone says such and such of the scripture is metaphor or simile, it may not mean they reject the literal occurrence, etc. For I too intensely love and am deeply attached to Jesus within, and I love the Word Which was manifest as Jesus.. firstborn, forever preeminent.. the prototype if you will..
And so I also am hoping all those who read the metaphor lesson and learning/insight, do not consider the literal to be cancelled. I mean metaphor comes from literal, doesn't it? So to me all metaphor should tie back to - the news of the Kingdom coming, which Jesus preached, and the news of Christ Crucified, which Paul was so grace-fully taught and was inspired to teach, spread and write.
I have to guard against assuming a metaphor application means the straight out, what Jesus said, etc, is being rejected. I believe in the spiritual message of things.. absolutely, but also the literal. I don't think they have to be always exclusive of one another.
God bless you brother! :gsmile:
It seems, to me at least, especially on these boards, the most "Spiritual interpretation" is to apply everything to yourself. I'm not too sure how I feel about that. If you suggest any of it having real world significance, well nope! The supposed "correct way" cannot be applying in any "literal" significance.
Welcome back Rick! Hope you enjoyed your short vacation.
:faint: I have thought that before, that metaphor is the angle of
it's all about me.. But I'm learning that of course also the application is concerning all. But it's one reason I believe there is value in both, the literal and the spiritual. But we humans are prone to either, or thinking.. rather than "and".
For example, even with the overall drama / history of this wayward path /wrong way, which is life lived not in conscious (happy) union with Him, believing it can only crash n burn.. (apocalypse) I believe this to be true both collectively and also individually (each sinner's life, ultimately). The world being the literal, and the individual (spiritual) being the not as literal.. or that is literal but in a different way.. since everybody's crashing n burning is in different degrees.. Of course apocalypse itself is told via symbols and metaphor, lol.
Is literal and spiritual the same as what I think of as collective and individual? Concerning the Bible as truth, that is..
:Peace2:
And perhaps it's also a case of it being the difference in the body of Christ.. "the ear cannot say to the eye I have no need of you".. But we humans kind of do.. maybe because in so much discussion, the idea and attitude is debate.. So it's easy to read someone actually saying "and" as saying "or". Lol, sometimes that is..
Quote from: jugghead on December 01, 2018, 03:42:15 AM
The forgiveness of sins is the life hidden within the hardness of the shell of the condemnation for sin, not until the shell is broken and falls away can the life within begin to grow
:thumbsup: :Chinscratch: I believe I have mentioned to you before that I think you have the heart of a poet.. :thumbsup:
Fear of God is the beginning of fear and judgment. Love of God is the completion of triumph and peace.
Quote from: marie glen on December 01, 2018, 10:07:27 PM
Quote from: jugghead on December 01, 2018, 03:42:15 AM
The forgiveness of sins is the life hidden within the hardness of the shell of the condemnation for sin, not until the shell is broken and falls away can the life within begin to grow
:thumbsup: :Chinscratch: I believe I have mentioned to you before that I think you have the heart of a poet.. :thumbsup:
Thank you MG and I believe it is His heart that the words come from
lts important to recognize the limits of this medium. It is by its very nature "limited". We cannot look one another in the eye and have free flowing discourse, "midrash", that sifting that can happen in a few minutes of discussion in person, here- takes much more effort to discern, and at any measure, is limited. Because the veracity of scripture has always been challenged here on the site, one thing I know is that whenever we see posts that indicate that the scriptures may be in error- we will ask for clarification, and test the words- not to be legalistic, but to reach the true intent of the writer.
Everyone pretty much says what they think is true. I dont think many people are deliberately deceptive, yet- there is often disagreement and that disagreement can have a wide range of measure, from minor to major. No ones words are free from testing, ever, anywhere in this whole universe, and the depths are revealed through the fire of discourse- but only when the participants are patient and humble towards one another. Otherwise there is only strife and confusion and self indulgence. The only way to avoid testing is isolation, which can be a form of self-indulgence as well.
The inspiration and veracity of the scriptures is a foundation of the site. Wrong understandings of scripture can be tested and revealed by other scriptures and discerning priorities of scriptures.
For instance. One person hinges their paradigm on scriptures about judgment. Another on scriptures about mercy. The balance is revealed in a verse like "mercy triumphs over judgement". Neither "side" may throw away any scripture. Both "sides" are required to consider all that is presented, and truly the only resolution is if both "sides" realize there are no sides but rather a humble seeking of truth, togethr, because we are far from the reality of the glory of God, and that glory can only be achieved through union and communion. When position is more important than communion, then there is deception, and thats is why we, as moderators, agonize over these things.
One thing I never agonize over, however, is whether the scriptures are sufficient to reveal all that we need to know in terms of written revelation, and sufficient to test any revelation that is written by anyone.
If I don't learn from my mistakes, I am apt to repeat them
of which I know everyone here already understands that
and if I do not become a more loving person, a more forgiving person, a more compassionate person, than I was yesterday, then I need to repeat yesterday today in order to change tomorrow
Quote from: eaglesway on December 03, 2018, 10:59:35 PM
lts important to recognize the limits of this medium. It is by its very nature "limited". We cannot look one another in the eye and have free flowing discourse, "midrash", that sifting that can happen in a few minutes of discussion in person, here- takes much more effort to discern, and at any measure, is limited. Because the veracity of scripture has always been challenged here on the site, one thing I know is that whenever we see posts that indicate that the scriptures may be in error- we will ask for clarification, and test the words- not to be legalistic, but to reach the true intent of the writer.
Everyone pretty much says what they think is true. I dont think many people are deliberately deceptive, yet- there is often disagreement and that disagreement can have a wide range of measure, from minor to major. No ones words are free from testing, ever, anywhere in this whole universe, and the depths are revealed through the fire of discourse- but only when the participants are patient and humble towards one another. Otherwise there is only strife and confusion and self indulgence. The only way to avoid testing is isolation, which can be a form of self-indulgence as well.
The inspiration and veracity of the scriptures is a foundation of the site. Wrong understandings of scripture can be tested and revealed by other scriptures and discerning priorities of scriptures.
For instance. One person hinges their paradigm on scriptures about judgment. Another on scriptures about mercy. The balance is revealed in a verse like "mercy triumphs over judgement". Neither "side" may throw away any scripture. Both "sides" are required to consider all that is presented, and truly the only resolution is if both "sides" realize there are no sides but rather a humble seeking of truth, togethr, because we are far from the reality of the glory of God, and that glory can only be achieved through union and communion. When position is more important than communion, then there is deception, and thats is why we, as moderators, agonize over these things.
One thing I never agonize over, however, is whether the scriptures are sufficient to reveal all that we need to know in terms of written revelation, and sufficient to test any revelation that is written by anyone.
:clapping: I SO agree with that..
Also.. when I read "mercy triumphs over judgement" this time, it 'bout slapped me in the face! About other threads of discussion, if mercy trumps judgment, why would there be punishment? {my thinking is; Why would those - chosen - to be saved after death and resurrection, experience any more torment at conversion/faith (believing!) than any of us - chosen - drawn, turned, during this lifetime. Since we know it is a work that He alone does. Which I am thoroughly convinced of, because, otherwise it is like wages.. as if God owes.
Which of course, is an impossibility.
P.S. Oh yes.. there are many forums we can go to, and every one.. well maybe not "every one", but most only talk.. no listening, no actual reading.. I mean you can really polish up your message.. Repetition is good in study! :laughing7:
Quote from: eaglesway on December 03, 2018, 10:59:35 PM
lts important to recognize the limits of this medium. It is by its very nature "limited". We cannot look one another in the eye and have free flowing discourse, "midrash", that sifting that can happen in a few minutes of discussion in person, here- takes much more effort to discern, and at any measure, is limited. Because the veracity of scripture has always been challenged here on the site, one thing I know is that whenever we see posts that indicate that the scriptures may be in error- we will ask for clarification, and test the words- not to be legalistic, but to reach the true intent of the writer.
Everyone pretty much says what they think is true. I dont think many people are deliberately deceptive, yet- there is often disagreement and that disagreement can have a wide range of measure, from minor to major. No ones words are free from testing, ever, anywhere in this whole universe, and the depths are revealed through the fire of discourse- but only when the participants are patient and humble towards one another. Otherwise there is only strife and confusion and self indulgence. The only way to avoid testing is isolation, which can be a form of self-indulgence as well.
The inspiration and veracity of the scriptures is a foundation of the site. Wrong understandings of scripture can be tested and revealed by other scriptures and discerning priorities of scriptures.
For instance. One person hinges their paradigm on scriptures about judgment. Another on scriptures about mercy. The balance is revealed in a verse like "mercy triumphs over judgement". Neither "side" may throw away any scripture. Both "sides" are required to consider all that is presented, and truly the only resolution is if both "sides" realize there are no sides but rather a humble seeking of truth, togethr, because we are far from the reality of the glory of God, and that glory can only be achieved through union and communion. When position is more important than communion, then there is deception, and thats is why we, as moderators, agonize over these things.
One thing I never agonize over, however, is whether the scriptures are sufficient to reveal all that we need to know in terms of written revelation, and sufficient to test any revelation that is written by anyone.
I apologize for my mishandling of words
No apologies necessary, jus kind of an explanation. Would hate to lose you as a member. You have so many edifying things to say. :o)
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :iagree: :girlheart:
Quote from: eaglesway on December 11, 2018, 05:28:34 PM
No apologies necessary, jus kind of an explanation. Would hate to lose you as a member. You have so many edifying things to say. :o)
Not sure what you want me to explain
"Revelation" is an experience, but to "experience" a revelation brings life.
Revelation: defined as; the revealing of truth, so, to expand on the opening statement is to also understand this statement in these words:
"The revealing of truth" is an experience, but to "experience" the revealing of truth brings life.
Anyone can be told that "the revealing of truth" is an experience, and they can believe this to be true, but to actually experience "the revealing of truth" goes beyond just believing it is true, it becomes "knowing" it is true.
And since Christ Himself said; "I am the truth", we can come to understand that there is a difference between "believing" truth and "knowing" truth, for it is no different than saying, "believing" Christ and "knowing" Christ and by seeing this difference, we now know:
We need to "believe" before we "know" and that pertains to: not just believing "in" Him, but believing what He says, and that "in" itself is: "the knowing" that He is the physical manifestation of what He says and that because "The Word became flesh".
Just some "loose" "change" in my pocket
After our physical death, when our spirit returns to that from which it came --- the life we lived in the flesh will be used by God as a tool to show us spiritual truth --- for God commanded light to shine out of darkness
I believe this to be true also collectively. That "the judgment" what we call Judgment 'Day' will be an examining of all history upon Earth. And what potential as learning experience!! (As well as - the personal judging/examination and if we judge ourselves now, our position upon that day will be more as 'judge'/discerner than judged.. as I believe prophecy indicates two ages after this one and before the all in all occurrence of Rev.21:1-5. (Note:later verses in 22 about "outside is the darkness and sinners," etc. to be a speaking OUTSIDE the vision/rev.narrative. And does NOT refer to the state of things after Yahweh is "all in all" afterall when He is "all in all" how can there be "outer darkness" and sinning? No logic there..!
It's like ps.22:27 - the logical question is when? When will all remember and turn to the LORD. And when will ALL families of the nations worship before Him?? Especially in view of such verses as "can anyone praise You from the grave?"
:2c:when therisen ones observemen still on earth being'caught inthe act" inallvariablesof'sin' what canthey say but..Truly God hasbound
up all men in sin and disobedience?and just as all have bore the image of thecorrupt,so,too,shall we all bear the image of the incorrupt.
what we need to learn from the TOKOGAE is that there is a little serpent in it..and that a little evil spoils much good.
Quote from: marie glen on December 22, 2018, 05:20:08 PM
I believe this to be true also collectively. That "the judgment" what we call Judgment 'Day' will be an examining of all history upon Earth. And what potential as learning experience!! (As well as - the personal judging/examination and if we judge ourselves now, our position upon that day will be more as 'judge'/discerner than judged.. as I believe prophecy indicates two ages after this one and before the all in all occurrence of Rev.21:1-5. (Note:later verses in 22 about "outside is the darkness and sinners," etc. to be a speaking OUTSIDE the vision/rev.narrative. And does NOT refer to the state of things after Yahweh is "all in all" afterall when He is "all in all" how can there be "outer darkness" and sinning? No logic there..!
It's like ps.22:27 - the logical question is when? When will all remember and turn to the LORD. And when will ALL families of the nations worship before Him?? Especially in view of such verses as "can anyone praise You from the grave?"
if I am wrong, please correct me, but, according to what you wrote, you believe you will be in a higher position of judging than others?
IMO, who am I to have a higher position if we all were subjected to disobedience?
Quote from: jugghead on December 22, 2018, 09:26:15 PM
IMO, who am I to have a higher position if we all were subjected to disobedience?
Because it is a gift from God, not of your own selves, lest ye should boast.
1 Corinthians 6
2Or do you not know that the Lord's people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases?
Obadiah 1
21And
saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the Lord's.
Romans 2
16This will take place on the day when God judges people's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.
Proverbs 27
5Better is open rebuke than hidden love.
God alone will be exalted inthat day..and every hidden thing will be revealed...and those that judge by the appearance of the flesh...
and the motives of their hearts will also be revealed.
Isaaih 40;4 and Luke 3;5...every valley shall be raisedup...every mountain[saviours/salvationisof thejews] and hill[hills skip like Lambs
of Christ] shall be made low. The rough ground shall become level,the rugged places a plain...AND THE GLORY OF THE LORD WILL BE
REVEALED..AND ALL MANKIND TOGATHER WILL SEE IT... no jews boasting..no Christian churches..
The Kingdom of heaven is like..a woman that hid leavening in 3measures of flour..until all was leavened.
we may apply this truth toboth..the leavening of sin that overcome the jews and Christian churches[dragon overcome saints/look
like Lambs but speak like dragon/accuser of the brethren] and God's mercy unto all.mercy unto all being God's leavening that makes
all men rise.
Judge this[or discern for yourself]is it lawful to kill or to heal on the Sabbath?
butIknow my sister Marie's heart..that the loveof God and her fellow man is there.
Le vel playing fields...a true balance on the scales of justice of God. Luke 3;5 and ALLMANKINDWILLSEE GOD'S SALVATION.
ALL is fair in LOVE and War with the dragon...sinentered andbrought death unto allmen..so too,shall the man who has life in himself
[Jesus Christ] enter in and bring eternal llife unto all men....Greater is He that is in you..than he that is in the world.
Quote from: jugghead on December 22, 2018, 09:26:15 PM
Quote from: marie glen on December 22, 2018, 05:20:08 PM
I believe this to be true also collectively. That "the judgment" what we call Judgment 'Day' will be an examining of all history upon Earth. And what potential as learning experience!! (As well as - the personal judging/examination and if we judge ourselves now, our position upon that day will be more as 'judge'/discerner than judged.. as I believe prophecy indicates two ages after this one and before the all in all occurrence of Rev.21:1-5. (Note:later verses in 22 about "outside is the darkness and sinners," etc. to be a speaking OUTSIDE the vision/rev.narrative. And does NOT refer to the state of things after Yahweh is "all in all" afterall when He is "all in all" how can there be "outer darkness" and sinning? No logic there..!
It's like ps.22:27 - the logical question is when? When will all remember and turn to the LORD. And when will ALL families of the nations worship before Him?? Especially in view of such verses as "can anyone praise You from the grave?"
if I am wrong, please correct me, but, according to what you wrote, you believe you will be in a higher position of judging than others?
IMO, who am I to have a higher position if we all were subjected to disobedience?
Nope.. I've mentioned before, also, I don't believe there will be classes.. i'm talking about judging history, not people.. as in all of us discerning, but the 'elect' will serve,imo, during the millennium and an age following called the judgment. Or rather we will learn and serve.. take a thousand years to learn what we need to know and understand in order to serve in the following age ministering to folks from all walks and all times of world history.
I believe in a literal resurrection from the dead of allthose not yet saved, which occurs, according to Rev.20, "after the thousand years". And I have to think that will be many people and much ministering as Jesus continues the work of drawing all to Him. Not done ina moment ay more than the drawing of all those during their brief lifetime - those who rise at Jesus' return. Now I do believe resurrection also is spiritual when we are born again, but, to me, that doesn't make literal ages described in Rev and the prophets to be any less literal.
I also believe world affairs are also a part of 'judgment' and a part of history.. such as 70 A.D. as judgment/results.. And if we will judge our selves, then judgments upon the world we may perhaps be spared from., I believe the same of those who rise to the judgment - Jesus said some rise in a resurrection of life and some to aresurrectionof judgment— only because a(truth proving) drama needs more than one character. And we chosen are chosen because we are he weak and foolish if the earth.. And on judgment day I believe individual or personal judgment occurs within. And what all will be judging/discerning is history and it's lesson of what is good from evil, which I believe also life from defeats. Two roads. Life. Or lack of life (thanatos/lack of life/God) making the wRong roadimpossible. Allmust live in union withGod/Lifeand this ax wd lnow, is through Jesus. [Note: the Gnostics believed God's Words to be all only spiritual.. hidden mysteries for those who know- are, we're of higher class for they understood (lnow/gnosis) revealed to each one individually, not so much via the Word as we around here, but by special hidden knowing (gnosis). Certain deeds proceeded out of this as they denied Jesus came in the flesh, the flesh being to them, not the carnal character, but matter, and since the body was evil whatever was done in it didn't matter. Another deed of these special 'saved by their knowledge' believers became the higher strata.. which is what he Word nicolaitans means.. above and over the laity/common believers. This thing— or that is, these deeds and doctrine Jesus said He "hates". According to the letters to the churches of Ephesus and Pergamon.. Ephesis commended for their resisting such doctrine and belief but Pergamon scolded for not..
"Over the laity" - Jesus "hates"? also the doctrine of gnosis/special knowlege saves?
IMO, the ability to judge is what got man in trouble in the first place,
Eve judged the tree as good for food, she judged the tree pleasant to the eyes, she judged the tree would make them wise
and it was because of these judgments "before" they ate that caused them "to" eat and the result of that judgement to eat was to judge themselves, which I believe is why they hid from God when they heard Him in the garden because they feared God would punish them and that because they knew nothing about how God would fix the problem of death that He knew in advance would happen by covering them with skins rather than leaves, which is a picture of life for life, a life of His righteousness for the life of man's righteousness.
The ability to judge can be both a curse and a blessing
again, this is just my opinion
Jugghead, what is your definition of judgment?
I think of it as chastiment and discernment. The problem IMO is not the correction itself but the fear of it. They hid because they feared that.
1 John 4
18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
They lusted after the tree, they lusted for wisdom and food, that was their first sin I think.
Quote from: jugghead on December 26, 2018, 03:51:50 PM
IMO, the ability to judge is what got man in trouble in the first place,
Eve judged the tree as good for food, she judged the tree pleasant to the eyes, she judged the tree would make them wise
and it was because of these judgments "before" they ate that caused them "to" eat and the result of that judgement to eat was to judge themselves, which I believe is why they hid furom God when they heard Him in the garden because they feared God would punish them and that because they knew nothing about how God would fix the problem of death that He knew in advance would happen by covering them with skins rather than leaves, which is a picture of life for life, a life of His righteousness for the life of man's righteousness.
The ability to judge can be both a curse and a blessing
again, this is just my opinion
AMEN!
It's what I think of as a real Pandora's box.. this ability to perceive and make a judgment.. decision, choice, or that is, in its most original, the ability to think, ponder, weigh, judge (as in discern).
But the one forbidden tree was judged or discerned by Eve to be good, when God's words were it wasn't good. (But all the other trees were.) So her Judgment (discernment) was inaccurate. Why? It seems to be two reasons, to me, by reading the account, that it was the deception which began it. If the serpent (and there's a serpent in Rev.12, showing (me) it was more than the animal serpent at work and animals were not given the ability of such reasoning, full blown reasoning judgment/ability).
Which suggests to me what is elsewhere referred to as (rebel) winds or breaths ("messeng
ers") of Fire/breath.. (Spirit). And in order to do so that they too had ability to think, judge (reason, weigh and balance - she saw the fruit was attractive and edible - trusting other words than God's and other
interpretation of God's Words..
:Chinscratch: So logically, it seems to me, Adam and Eve were created at such a time that the 'serpents' Judgment had become perverse, changed, rebel, no longer a perfect creation of God.
Or the serpent was a type of programmed/robotic creature God created onLy to deceive and wreak havoc.. It would do so with no judgment/thought/scheming.. :dontknow: that just seems logical to me.. that the serpent was cunning and had planned and plotted.
I guess that much is a question of logic, to me, anyway, about the Word, that is). Did God created the adversary as corrupt, deceitful, fallen and seditious/tricky? Or what did Jesus mean when He said He saw the adversary fall like lightning? The original Greek translated fall, would help clarify I think.
So we are in agreement on this - the ability to discern, have Judgment about things is indeed a real problem and maker of trouble. Indeed, isn't the deepest depths of oppression, wars, even the very worst of the worst possible? Making judgment (ability) to be a BIG problem.
Would be better we couldn't make judgments about things of life. But what would we be then, do you think? Is it a friend or companion if they are unable to think and rationalize. Would it be better to never create any sort of rational, able to make judgments, creatures?
It's my theory He, in His great wisdom (and ability!) created man and woman and the universe at the penultimate time.. which caused all rational creatures to take part in this learning to rightly discern (good from evil /life from death, what I think of as nonlife or lacking life - an opposite to life like evil is opposite to good).
How wise! (Imo) How POWERFUL.. That He can arrange and engineer things so all take this (unavoidable?) journey/travail/lesson (foundation lesson?) All together at once. :Chinscratch: What would another way of doing it look like? All take the journey at individual times? Or place? But God, it seems to me is very orderly. Jesus said have the ppl sit in 50's or a hundred.. I'll break the bread, you pass it out. (That's our job! :) Pass it out, plain, simple, easy to digest bread of life (truth). [Oh how the Gnostics had it wrong.. everything a "mystery" a code fit only for the wisest, so called elite.. and the rest? Just cattle? And being wonderful understanders of hidden mysteries was what they thought saved them, which turned out just the opposite, their faulty judgment led them way astray til Jesus said Nico-laity-ism (elitism?) was a thing He hated. Other verses show us it led them into gross error! And He hated their deeds! So wise and more perceptive than others they were! not!)
Those first words..which led astray., and
still having such a loud echo "hast God said..?" / "really said?" Surely the serpent and others can improve upon what God has said.. ( :faint: )
In another thread recently was a question about Isaiah's prophecy "they shall look upon the dead bodies and be abhorred" - the smoke of the destructive way, the anti life way.. and be (forever/age to age) abhorred! With the end result of it.
If we never saw the end result of it, how would we be totally convinced, so we know good from evil accurately? The wages of sin accurately? That it is NOT pleasing to the eyes or pleasing in any way.. for it is a bottomless pit of potential.. for the carnal self serving way includes the possibility of great oppressions, wars large and small. Even(obviously) genocides.. the sex slave trade.. abortion, judgment in the other sense of the word, as consequences.. well, He has said all blood spilled of innocent shall be required. The simile being blood calls out to God from the earth, Abel's blood, the 'martyrs under the altar' which more shall join (the trying of ET?)
But I've gone way afield.. :laughing7: But Truth is all connected. A simple truth really, that all can - ultimately - understand and digest. (Except the adversary&co, is always working very hard to confuse and cover. But I guess that's part and parcel of the wrong road - as opposed to the one of "life" - carnal self seeking or flirting-(typo, no idea what I meant to write :laughing7: ) can include all manner of possibility, including abuse and oppression.
BUT, if the whole road (of error/disobedience/death) must be allowed to fully unwind and be seen.. or forever would be the question "has God
really said..? Because truth vs untrue and error, would never really be exposed. We have to see the end, the results.. otherwise always a question..? And so the smoke of the worthless way shall always/age to age, rise (in the memory and understanding of all).. the dead bodies of war, etc. being forever a deep, very deep abhorrence to "all in heaven and earth".
This learning to understand/discern/judge good from evil is how (imo) God is writing/engraving His Law (of love, and serving love NOT self, aka, the carnal way; but writing forever His law summed up in "love" upon and into every heart and mind (psyche). Which is the only way God can/will be all in all..?
Quote from: MusicLover123 on December 26, 2018, 05:01:35 PM
Jugghead, what is your definition of judgment?
I think of it as chastiment and discernment. The problem IMO is not the correction itself but the fear of it. They hid because they feared that.
1 John 4
18There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
They lusted after the tree, they lusted for wisdom and food, that was their first sin I think.
Yes Connor, what you said is exactly what I believe, it is the words we use in explaining something that makes the difference. I can rewrite my whole post ---- and by that, someone is more apt to listen because of the way it is said, my post rewritten:
Quote
IMO, the ability to discern is what got man in trouble in the first place,
Eve discerned the tree as good for food, she saw the tree pleasant to the eyes, she discerned the tree would make them wise
and it was because of these discernments "before" they ate that caused them "to" eat and the result of that discernment to eat was to discern and see themselves, which I believe is why they hid from God when they heard Him in the garden because they feared God would correct them and that because they knew nothing about how God would correct the problem of death that He knew in advance would happen by covering them with skins rather than leaves, which is a picture of life for life, a life of His discernments for the life of man's judgments.
The ability to discern can be both a curse (judgment/discernment/correction against) and a blessing (judgment/discernment/correction for)
again, this is just my opinion
It comes down to listening to His Spirit in ourselves, of which we can better understand "the letter of the law" and what I mean by that is: if we are not willing to dig into what the writer is trying to say, the better understanding is lost. The word "judgment" itself can be defined as many things: discernment, a choice, a decision, a verdict, a conclusion etc., "the letter of the law" is to not completely understand how the word is being used, but to know the heart of the author, and by knowing the heart of the author there should be no misunderstandings.
If we don't know the heart of God (which is Christ Jesus, our Lord and Savior) the author of our salvation ---- in short, if we do not know the author (the Father) and His heart (the Word), there is no way we can understand what God means when it is filtered through a limited understanding of what is written.
Blessings
Excellent post Marie :iagree: :dsunny:
and wanted to add --- especially your opening statement:
Quote
It's what I think of as a real Pandora's box.. this ability to perceive and make a judgment.. decision, choice, or that is, in its most original, the ability to think, ponder, weigh, judge (as in discern).
Quote from: jugghead on December 27, 2018, 03:53:26 PM
Excellent post Marie :iagree: :dsunny:
and wanted to add --- especially your opening statement:
Quote
It's what I think of as a real Pandora's box.. this ability to perceive and make a judgment.. decision, choice, or that is, in its most original, the ability to think, ponder, weigh, judge (as in discern).
Thanks! ...thinking of that.. what would be His other option? Or another option. Maybe there's more than one other option? :dontknow:
Quote from: marie glen on December 27, 2018, 04:16:25 PM
Quote from: jugghead on December 27, 2018, 03:53:26 PM
Excellent post Marie :iagree: :dsunny:
and wanted to add --- especially your opening statement:
Quote
It's what I think of as a real Pandora's box.. this ability to perceive and make a judgment.. decision, choice, or that is, in its most original, the ability to think, ponder, weigh, judge (as in discern).
Thanks! ...thinking of that.. what would be His other option? Or another option. Maybe there's more than one other option? :dontknow:
I would like to reply to this, but so that there are no misunderstandings, I would like to know what specific option(s) are you speaking of?
Quote from: jugghead on December 27, 2018, 04:39:46 PM
Quote from: marie glen on December 27, 2018, 04:16:25 PM
Quote from: jugghead on December 27, 2018, 03:53:26 PM
Excellent post Marie :iagree: :dsunny:
and wanted to add --- especially your opening statement:
Quote
It’s what I think of as a real Pandora’s box.. this ability to perceive and make a judgment.. decision, choice, or that is, in its most original, the ability to think, ponder, weigh, judge (as in discern).
Thanks! ...thinking of that.. what would be His other option? Or another option. Maybe there’s more than one other option? :dontknow:
I would like to reply to this, but so that there are no misunderstandings, I would like to know what specific option(s) are you speaking of?
Never creating rational creatures.. or sticking with merely very young, extremely young rational beings who cannot really make any sort of choice.. Or create all as fully programmed with no ability to think outside of the parameters God sets. But I think that is what He IS doing through this travail of learning good from evil.. Or we could be attached to spiritual strings that God forever Himself (only) pulls..
But it's my thinking that He is creating - replicating, if you will, the Son, He being the original replication of God.. the only straight out from Him one, within whom the rest of us shall all live..
There's the imaginary world of 'the gods' where all were human like.. made war, cheated, murdered one another, etc.. Or a universe made up of those and only of those (ultimately) who share God's character. This, to me, will
seal the state of
perfection of what He is creating, and, allow for
fully rational created beings. Which I assume we all more or less believe, but differ some on how He is doing it.
Here's an interesting thing to consider: what if all the "gods" (like Greek gods and eastern religions, etc.) Are actually fallen Angels? I heard someone say that they depicted what they saw.
Here are some things I think of for choices.
We have physical and Spiritual. Was anything other than that possible?
Make us perfect in the first place and not go through this life?
God not being hidden to most ar this time?(in terms of seeing Him)
Quote from: marie glen on December 27, 2018, 11:53:55 PM
Quote from: jugghead on December 27, 2018, 04:39:46 PM
Quote from: marie glen on December 27, 2018, 04:16:25 PM
Quote from: jugghead on December 27, 2018, 03:53:26 PM
Excellent post Marie :iagree: :dsunny:
and wanted to add --- especially your opening statement:
Quote
It's what I think of as a real Pandora's box.. this ability to perceive and make a judgment.. decision, choice, or that is, in its most original, the ability to think, ponder, weigh, judge (as in discern).
Thanks! ...thinking of that.. what would be His other option? Or another option. Maybe there's more than one other option? :dontknow:
I would like to reply to this, but so that there are no misunderstandings, I would like to know what specific option(s) are you speaking of?
Never creating rational creatures.. or sticking with merely very young, extremely young rational beings who cannot really make any sort of choice.. Or create all as fully programmed with no ability to think outside of the parameters God sets. But I think that is what He IS doing through this travail of learning good from evil.. Or we could be attached to spiritual strings that God forever Himself (only) pulls..
But it's my thinking that He is creating - replicating, if you will, the Son, He being the original replication of God.. the only straight out from Him one, within whom the rest of us shall all live..
There's the imaginary world of 'the gods' where all were human like.. made war, cheated, murdered one another, etc.. Or a universe made up of those and only of those (ultimately) who share God's character. This, to me, will seal the state of perfection of what He is creating, and, allow for fully rational created beings. Which I assume we all more or less believe, but differ some on how He is doing it.
Yes, I would agree that there was no other option but "to" create rational beings, and that because; knowing that God has the ability to think begs the question: How can we be created in His image if we were not able to think, to rationalize, discern, make a choice? If we weren't, then we are no different then just having a nature that acts on instinct, the instinct to survive.
For me, survival of the fittest is not living, living for me is to be able to identify with what another is going through, to have compassion, to have empathy and through our weaknesses in these abilities, He is strong, strengthening those abilities in us, we can recognize a need because we too have been through not having others identify with us, been through others not having compassion towards us, been through others not having empathy towards us and it is only by these things that we are now capable of doing something about it for another ----- which is just the long version of these short terms:
"We love Him (and others) because He first loved us" (1st John 4:19)
"I do nothing of myself" (John 8:28)
and in my own words, I have "no idea" how to love another if I am not shown "how" to love another.
After I woke up this morning, a thought was brought to mind.
It is only at the point of being woke up that we know we have been asleep, wouldn't this example be just another way of saying: it is only at the point of being resurrected that we know we have been dead?
and by understanding that a parable is: things in this world used to understand spiritual things: wouldn't that make the first statement a parable to understand the spirtual thing of resurrection?
and that the short process of waking up is just a very small picture of a bigger one; that this short life can be understood as the process of waking up; and that our waking up to truth is the partaking of the first resurrection?
Just some thoughts I am thinking about and wanted to share
Blessings
EDIT: and that the reason God shortened our lifespan here was so we could understand resurrection in a shorter period of time ---- and come to think about it ---- what a blessing and a perfect picture of the grace of God
Those are my thoughts as well. The whole post kinda right where I am at on those things. I especially like Pauls Mars Hill sermon in Acts 17 on the last part about a lifetime as an opportunity to contemplate/come to understand resurrection
As I was catching up on reading the posts from these last few days, some thoughts came to mind.
That God became something He did not want to do, but knew it was the only way for us to understand.
What I mean by this is: that God did not want to become a judge of His people, but He had to do it in order for us to completely understand the depths of what the law can do. And this is because in order to carry out the law to the letter, all emotion towards that person (or people) being judged has to be eliminated, no favoritism can be shown.
Thereby, by the Father handing over all authority to the Son, the Father -- as a judge of all His people (all of mankind) -- had to die, and the death of that judge - through the Son - took place in order to come to understand the true nature of God before the world was, and by and through the understanding of UR, our true Father - our Father of Grace - is being resurrected.
Even ET'ers believe in the grace of God through the Son, but what they still see is:
our heavenly Father as a "judge to all" through the "old covenant of the law"
rather than
a loving Father of "mercy to all" through the "new covenant of grace".
The Son can only do what He sees the Father do, so to be like Christ is to put to death that "old judge" in us and become "new grace"
A new creature
Putting to death that old judge in the flesh to become a new creature of grace in the Spirit
Just some thoughts
In what I have come to understand "wills", that the will of man is not stronger than the will of the Father, only that the Father will allow His will to be bound by the will of man, that God will submit to the will of man in being bound, because Love does not force ..... but that only delays the inevitable, delays the Father's will being accomplished in their life later rather than sooner.
and in the words of Christ, "not my will, but your will", in other words, all have to come to this one inevitable conclusion, we have been given the power to bind, but "whatever we bind on earth will be bound in heaven and whatever we loose on earth will be loosed in heaven"
If we bind God's will here, we bind it in heaven, but if we loose God's will here, it is loosed in heaven, but I also believe this happens more so on an individual basis and not corporately here on this side of Jordan and that is because, in heaven, on the other side of Jordan, His will CANNOT be bound, and if man wants to bind His will there, that is what I see in, they will be tossed into the outer darkness for He never knew them and that the outer darkness they are being tossed back into IS "their own will", in other words, our own will here, on this side of Jordan, is the outer darkness outside the will of the Father, and that is understood as: being outside the will of the Father is TO BE in darkness .... TO BE in our own will .... and TO BE in the will of the Father is to be in HIS LIGHT ...
And that the outer darkness is just another way of saying LOF, the purifying process, starting from the beginning as a child that understands little, because if we do not go through the process here, we will there and THAT is the will of the Father.
just my thoughts
many will find out when they get home..that they willfully sinned.Instead of heeding'you must forgive all that trespass against you..or
your Father in heaven will not forgive you. " willfully hanging on to unforgiveness of your fellow man[falling short of love..which keeps
no account of the injury] when told you MUST forgive..realizing they want no part of the abyss or LOF..they bow the knee/repent and
confess' JESUS IS LORD". :2c:
:iagree:
Yes, we can do our will on earth, but, once we see God, and go home, we will not be able to deny truth anymore. We will have to face whatever we have done to distance ourselves from God. We will know the truth....no more will we see from a mirror, dimly. And, if we have run from the truth, we will need to be transformed....thus the Lake of Fire.
"Thy will be done, on earth, as it is in Heaven"
1 Corinthians 13:
8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
D.
Look and see how Jesus dealt with the woman caught in the "act"of adultery.!1.He ended the fight over her. 2He pardoned her
iniquity.3.The hassle and threat of death from the crowd was enough..and the would be stone-throwers departed-leaving her alone
with Christ.
now apply this to those spirits of men resurrected[spirits of just men made perfect]in regard to the second death..LOF........
who is going to take sides with the'accusor of the brethern"..and go into the LOF with them?
when you take into account the 'woman'is representative of the church/saints overcome of the dragon..and have been pushing
condemnation/hellfire/ED and ET andLOF death and judgement[spiritual adultery] commandments of men and not the WORD OF
GOD/GRACE/SALVATION OF ALL/FORGIVENESS OF ALL SIN/PEACE TO HIM NEAR AND AFAR,of her betothed /Husband.
the 'church'itself has had it's part in the binding up of the all in sin. Are any of us fit to 'loose the bindings/laces' of His sandals?
remove them and use them to bind up men with unforgiveness of sin?.[How beautiful the feet that publisheth PEACE]
andbecome onewith the dragon..instead of Christ....youcan appreciate how/why He atoned especially for those who believed
and were overcome of the dragon. These were the very ones that putHim to death and requested a robber be released...
who will rob God of what He has redeemed? ALL MEN.
A HOUSE OF PRAYER FOR ALL MEN........Men have the right to pray unto God and have all their sins forgiven and not counted against
them.Iwas amember at onetime inthepast..of an overcome church.....that denied even the right to prayer of anyone who was
nota member in good standing with them..they say..Christ is not your mediator,we are!!!!!Blasphemy!Canyou say,'liar,liar,
pants on fire?"Clothed in strange garments/doctrines..instead of the wedding garment...they are unable to sup.You can not
be partakers with demonic doctrines and Christ's. ED is their doctrine..but there are many..short of love/truth/perfect understanding.
thus..the threat of death under the law covenat..and the threat of death under the GRACE covenant..has been a double portion
for all our sins........[missing the mark of Love] :2c:
Quote from: jugghead on January 13, 2019, 07:36:22 PM
In what I have come to understand "wills", that the will of man is not stronger than the will of the Father, only that the Father will allow His will to be bound by the will of man, that God will submit to the will of man in being bound, because Love does not force ..... but that only delays the inevitable, delays the Father's will being accomplished in their life later rather than sooner.
and in the words of Christ, "not my will, but your will", in other words, all have to come to this one inevitable conclusion, we have been given the power to bind, but "whatever we bind on earth will be bound in heaven and whatever we loose on earth will be loosed in heaven"
If we bind God's will here, we bind it in heaven, but if we loose God's will here, it is loosed in heaven, but I also believe this happens more so on an individual basis and not corporately here on this side of Jordan and that is because, in heaven, on the other side of Jordan, His will CANNOT be bound, and if man wants to bind His will there, that is what I see in, they will be tossed into the outer darkness for He never knew them and that the outer darkness they are being tossed back into IS "their own will", in other words, our own will here, on this side of Jordan, is the outer darkness outside the will of the Father, and that is understood as: being outside the will of the Father is TO BE in darkness .... TO BE in our own will .... and TO BE in the will of the Father is to be in HIS LIGHT ...
And that the outer darkness is just another way of saying LOF, the purifying process, starting from the beginning as a child that understands little, because if we do not go through the process here, we will there and THAT is the will of the Father.
just my thoughts
:thumbsup: :iagree: ...And amen Dandelion and Sheila :thumbsup:
This is something I wrote to myself awhile back, and what Sheila commented on brought it back to mind .....
I myself prefer using the words "good news" rather than the word "gospel" since many people are taught and understand the word "gospel" in the context of "doctrine". And for me, this is the difference I see between the two covenants, law and grace. For me, the word "gospel" in the context of "doctrine" ... it tends to lead us back under the old covenant of the law, as something we have to strictly adhere to ..... whereas the word "gospel" in the context of "good news", under the new covenant of grace, it is something we can rejoice in.
In short .... something we can rejoice about .... not fear
Evil, Good, Righteousness
Here is something to think about, that I know most do not, simply because it has taken 60 years for me to be brought to this conclusion. Most people only view things as good or evil. And I say most, because there are those who say there are some things that are neither good or evil, and then there are some who say that some things can be both good and evil. What most miss out on is understanding the difference between "what is good" and "what is righteous".
In what I have come to understand through my studies is: When we take a law ..... the law that says: do not steal. We know for a fact that it is evil to steal and that it is good not to steal. But do we, in our own understanding connect righteousness with being good? What I mean by this is: we know it is good not to steal, but if we don't steal, does the fact that we do not steal, make us righteous? I myself, don't believe so ..... what makes us righteous is "to give". Simply put:
what is considered to be evil is "to steal"
what is considered to be good is "not to steal"
but what is considered to be righteous is "to give"
..... likewise with killing:
what is considered to be evil is "to kill"
what is considered to be good is "to not kill"
but what is considered to be righteous is "to give life"
Understanding the difference between "the covenant of law" and "the covenant of grace". We know that the "law" is good and that it should be obeyed, but do we love the law more than we love Jesus? If Jesus is "righteous", that "being righteous" is an attribute of Jesus and that "being good" is an attribute of the law and that the Father gave us both, He gave us both the law and He gave us Jesus, that He gave us the law under "the old" covenant of the law and that He gave us Jesus under "the new" covenant of grace, have we come to love "what is good" (the law) more than "what is righteous" (Jesus)? And have we come to love "being good" through the law more than we love "being righteous" through Christ?
For me, to understand the difference between "what is good" and "what is righteous" is so misunderstood because the mind can believe that they are exactly the same thing when they're not. Because even people of church teachings know that there is a big difference between "just being good" and "being righteous". And do we misunderstand that our obedience to the law is "just being good", but our obedience to Christ is "being righteous"? But this comes down to "the reason" for doing something, in other words, it comes down to our "motive" FOR doing something.
Understanding the difference between "have to" and "want to" is very important at this time. Because what is our "motive" FOR giving? Do we give because we "have to" or do we give because we "want to"? In other words, do we give because it is "law" written "ON" our hearts and we "have to" obey that law, OR, do we give because it is "grace" "IN" our hearts and we "want to" obey that grace? Do we see that this "grace" IN our hearts is different than "the law" written ON our hearts?
The disciple John wrote down these words of Christ in the book of Revelation:
"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear My voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with Me." (3:20).
Have we opened the door to our hearts and let the "Grace" of God in? And when we look upon our own heart, do we look beyond whatis written ON our hearts (the law) and see what is IN our hearts (grace)? And do we understand that when we give, it is Christ IN us "wanting to give" to another rather than ourselves of law "having to give" to another? And by this, do we get a better understanding of these words of John:
"Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world."
(1 John 4:4).
That it is a greater thing to give because you "want to" through Grace, rather than to give because you "have to" through law? Have we BECOME the Grace of God, having entered into the new covenent of grace or have we REMAINED in the law of God, remaining under the old covenant of the law?
The apostle Paul writes these words:
"Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. (Galatians 3:24)
This word "faith" is G1402 with the definition of "persuasion", taken from the word G3982 which means "to convince". So with this in mind, shouldn't we understand that this definition of "persuasion" is understood in the context of "to persuade" or "to convince"? And that when we bring in the concept of "the law", that it is to be understood as "being persuaded" or "being convinced", what is good and what is evil? That the law itself can convince us "what is good" and "what is evil"? But, do we realize that "what is righteous" comes through Christ? Which is why I believe the apostle Paul states what he does in that the law is our schoolmaster to teach us good and evil, but that it is to lead us to Christ to understand "what is righteous" so that we can be justified by being persuaded; being convinced of "what is righteous" through Christ.
This is also why I believe what Paul says when he states:
"For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."
(Romans 10:3-4).
That the ignorance, the lack of understanding God's righteousness (that is "to give"), they went about establishing their own righteousness (that is "to not steal"), having not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God, that righteousness of God being "to give", not just "to not steal", Because Christ is the end of the law for righteousness, "to not steal", to every one that believeth. Do we believe that this is what the apostle meant when he had these words written down in his letter to the Romans? Or do we still lack understanding "what is good" through the law AND "what is righteous" through Christ? For me, it is the understanding of: under the old covenant of the law, it was righteous (good) not to steal, but under the new covenant of grace, what becomes righteous is "to give".
Another reason I believe this is because of the short phrase Paul wrote with the words: "what the law could not do" (Romans 8:3), that the law could not show us "what is righteous", it could not show us that it is "righteous to give", it could only show us "what is good", in other words: it could only show us it was "good" not to steal.
I have no idea if you ..... the reader ..... understand these things that I have written. I hope that you do and that I have not caused you any confusion. That is the last thing I want to do. So all I ask is, if you are confused in understanding this: then consider me a liar and let God be true. Take this directly to Him and literally live the words:
"let God be true; but every man a liar" (Romans 3:4).
I too, am just a man, so consider me a liar. I put myself out there to be judged by you, and I put what I write out there to be judged by you. I don't have to give you any authority to judge me or judge what I write, you already have that. All I ask is that you try to understand the point I am trying to make by thinking about it first; thinking about it "before" you come to a verdict of whether I am a liar or not.
The reason I say all this is because; when we take into consideration the other law I was talking about, that it is evil "to kill" and that it is "good" not to kill; do we also understand that to be righteous is "to give life"? Which raises the question: How do we, being just a human being, give life to someone else, when we know that only God can literally give life to someone?
So by this, thinking from a different perspective, have we ever considered that "to give life" to someone can be understood differently than what we have been taught? If "God is Love" and "Christ is Life" and if we have seen Christ, we have seen the Father; wouldn't it stand to reason that to give "love" to another is to give "life" to another? Do we see this when we read the words:
"And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." (Matthew 22:39),
That if we are giving "love" to our neighbor, we are giving "life" to our neighbor? Do we not yet understand that the understanding
of: the Father and the Son are one, is the same as saying: "Love" and "Life" are one? It has taken over 13 years of studying for me to understand this.
I hope it takes others less.
Blessings
Absolutly lovely Jugg !
I do see what you are saying so eloquently and explained so very well . Very timely and needed to hear it .
I can see the grace of GOD as the good and perfect gifts from above , Christ is to complete/perfect us by learning grace by the law of Love .
Thank you for sharing this brother , truly the Lord is with you .
Amen
Amen! "His yoke is easy, and His burden (expectation?) is light'. NOT heavy! Oh how man loves to make it heavy! Often for others, sometimes for self (and then others too of course :doh: ).
And I think of it as grace works within us. As you said "in the heart" but the law, rules, expectations, are imposed upon one from without. This was one of the first oppositions to the "good news", called the Judaizers.. who, it seems, by the letters to the Asian churches, progressed into outright persecution. They called theirselves apostles. And that opposition is still quite alive and active! Perhaps in some different ways..? The other was the gnostics who said God's Word could not be literal, but was (only) hidden knowledge only a few could understand. Seems like the two extremes..? The law, or as the gnostics ended up, with license (dissolution). Humans, I think, are prone to the extremes!
Grace changes from within.. and is His Spirit, His work.. I agree, to love.. encourage, accept, smile.. is to give life.. Are we a blessing? Or a curse? Or that is do we bless/spread life, or do we curse? Bring a shadow.. Our 'job' (service) is to love. Believers sometimes think they need to do the work of the HS! Which it is His work to convince the world (and someone) of sin. So why do some think they are supposed to do that? Because they don't trust, I think, the Lord's ability to do His transforming work. I try to think that most people are doing what they think is best, but the road of deception and error is very wide! And the road that brings fruit, presently, is rather narrow.. but opens up into the most spacious of fields.. A sunny pasture.. And a garden of life..
:Peace2: :dsunny:
The Mediator
Man calls it "language"
God calls it "The Word"
I was given a question to ask myself:
Who am I?
The answer I was given is:
I am he who was created as less than I will become ... with the seed to become more than I am shown to be
Just wanted to share
Blessings
Good question.
Good answer.
made me think of
1 John 3
1Behold what manner of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God. [Matt 5 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.]
And that is what we are!
The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know Him.
2Beloved, we are now children of God, and what we will be has not yet been revealed.
We know that when Christ appears, we will be like Him, for we will see Him as He is.
3And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as Christ is pure....
:thumbsup: Amen Rose, great verses! :dsunny:
The word "and"
First question: Is there anything that exists that is unimportant to God? I myself do not believe so. In studies of the word of God (the Bible), we can choose what we want to study, and that by our own judgment of what we may believe is more important than something else, this judgment is what determines what we study. Have you ever done a study of, and thought about the implications of this simple word "and"? Has it become a word that we take for granted? A word that we think we fully understand?
By and through the disciple Matthew, he recorded these words of Jesus:
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." ( 5:18).
What is a "jot" or a "tittle"?
According to dictinary.com, the definition of a "jot" is as follows:
Jot
Verb (used with object), jot-ted, jot-ting
To write or mark down quickly or briefly (usually followed by down)
Noun
The least part of something, a little bit
And the definition of a "tittle" is as follows:
Tittle
Noun
A dot or other small mark in writing or printing used as a diacritic, punctuation, etc.
A very small part or quantity; a particle, jot, or whit
So, with this being said, I ask again, Is there anything that exists that is unimportant to God? Because even the word "or" used in this verse has this definition:
A primary particle of distinction between two connected terms
And with this we see that these two words "jot" and "tittle" are connected in some way. But are they synonyms or are they distinct from each other? When we go back to the two definitions, we can see that they are alike AND that they are different. What I mean by this is: in the definition of the word "jot" it can be used as a verb, meaning it has action. And that it can also be used as a noun, which the word "tittle" is also.
This is where they are the same, in that they can both be used as nouns; and by this use, they can be synonyms. But where they differ is the fact that the word "jot" can also be an action. So, by this, do we see the distinction between the two words in that one can be focused on the action and that the other one is focused on the result of the action? In other words; that the word "jot" is on the action of writing down a "tittle" and the word "tittle" is the result of the "jot/tittle" that was written down.
Why all this detail in explaining all of this? It has to do with something else that Jesus said, written down by Luke, that being:
"He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much; and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much." (16:10).
Because I believe that all things written can be applied to all other things written (which I believe is the process (the action) contained within the term "all in all") we can come to a greater understanding of His word. This is the reason I believe that everything we can come to understand in His word is just a fraction of what IS POSSIBLE to understand, and I believe this is what keeps us humble in what we already understand, because we know there is always more and we also know that there are always greater things to understand.
It is here that I would like to get into more detail about the simple word "and" and its use in Scripture, it is a word that stands alone and has a definite definition of its own. That definition being:
Apparently, a primary particle, having a copulative and sometimes also a cumulative force
Often used in connection (or composition) with other particles or small words
The two words "copulative" and "cumulative" need to be better understood in order to get a better understanding of the word "and" used in Scripture. Although there are more definitions to these words, for the sake of the point I am trying to make, I am only using the primary definitions. Not that the other definitions have less value, or are less important, but that the other definitions are already contained within the primary definitions.
Copulative:
Serving to unite or couple
Cumulative:
Increasing or growing by accumulation or successive additions
The first one I believe is self-explanatory, it is this second one that I believe needs to be better understood, because what I see in this definition is the aspect of building, the combining of two things to make them larger or stronger.
What I have found very interesting when it comes to writing is this; that as I write, the way something is written does not always make known the intention that the writer is trying to convey to the reader. Let's take John 1:1 for example.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
The word "and" is used twice in this verse, and this word separates this verse into three parts. And we can understand these three parts separately. But let's take into consideration the aspect of a "cumulative" value. What I mean by this is; that the word "and" is used to make each part stronger than what was previously written. And what I mean through this is: that all three parts have one thing in common, that being: "the Word"; but one has more strength or power than the previous one. It is like adding a tone of voice to the aspect of the next two parts compared to the first part.
What I mean by this is: the first statement, "In the beginning was the Word" is said in a normal tone of voice, but then when we read "and the Word was with God" we are raising our voice in volume making it louder and then when we read the third part, we raise our voice even louder to put the most emphasis on the fact that "THE WORD WAS GOD". Which I emphasized through the examples of bolding and capitulation.
This, I believe, is one of the least things thought about when we are reading His word, we have no idea the tone of voice John wanted to convey to the reader, but if we look at this simple word "and" as a word that is to add strength to what was previously said, it is by this, that I believe, what brings the written word to life and since it is an aspect of emphasizing the next word or term, it should be understood as a place to stop and think about that emphasis. And this is because even the definition of the word "tittle" has in its definition "diacritic" which can be understood in part as "to add stress", which I believe can also be seen as "to add emotion".
People who write music know this concept very well, for I believe that a "jot" or "tittle" in writing is like a "sforzando" in music. And just like the music itself in a song can trigger feelings in conjunction with the words, a "jot" or "tittle" is to add emotion to what is being read. It is this concept (that I also believe) is why children love to have stories read to them by their parents, because the parents can add different tones of voice into the words to make it more interesting; to add flavor to the story; to give it life.
Lastly, that the word "and" can be a form of punctuation like a semicolon, or bolding the font, or underlining a word or phrase or quotation marks, all these things are to add emphasis, and understanding that this emphasis is a means to trigger emotion, it is like adding a spirit of life to words that are being read that might otherwise remain dead.
For me, understanding itself can wake us up to the meaning of the "word" but to "FEEL IT" is what I believe has the greater impact on our own spirit, it makes it "REMEMBERABLE".
"the" and "this"
Do you believe that the little things can be the easiest to overlook? I myself believe so. And because I believe this to be true, the littlest thing can make the biggest difference. And I also believe that the littlest thing can cause the most confusion.
As I was reading in one of the threads
"the mystery of His will", I was led to the word
"the" in this phrase. As I looked up this phrase in E-Sword, this was its definition:
G3588 The masculine, feminine (second) and neuter (third) forms, in all their inflections; the definite article; the (sometimes to be supplied, at others omitted, in English idiom): - the, this, that, one, he, she, it, etc.
In Paul's letter to the Ephesians he wrote this:
"In whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace; wherein He hath abounded towards us in all wisdom and prudence; having made known unto us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He hath purposed in Himself" (1:7-9).What I found in the use of the word
"the" it can lead us to ask the question:
"What is the mystery of His will?" and by this we have taken our focus off of what was previously said. Paul also wrote in his first letter to Timothy:
"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (2:4)And do we see the use of the word
"the" in this verse can also lead us to ask the question:
"What is the knowledge of the truth?"It is here I would like to show something that I was shown. When we take the first quote from Paul and change the word
"the" to the word
"this" here is what we see:
"In whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace; wherein He hath abounded towards us in all wisdom and prudence; having made known unto us THIS mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He hath purposed in Himself" (1:7-9).By this we see that
"redemption through His blood; the forgiveness of sins" IS the mystery, not something other than this that we have to search for and find, it is right in front of our face and we can't even see it.
And when we do the same with the quote from 1st Timothy we can see this:
"Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto THIS knowledge of THIS truth." (2:4)Can you see the big difference in the use of the word
"the" compared to the use of the word
"this"?
Just wanted to share this.
And on a second note, the "modify" link is not working, it reverts us back to the reply box, not sure if others knew this
Amen! Especially -
Quote from: jugghead on April 08, 2019, 05:01:19 PM
By this we see that "redemption through His blood; the forgiveness of sins" IS the mystery, not something other than this that we have to search for and find, it is right in front of our face and we can't even see it.
Quote from: jugghead on April 08, 2019, 05:08:07 PM
And on a second note, the "modify" link is not working, it reverts us back to the reply box, not sure if others knew this
yep.. an empty reply box.. so I deleted then reposted.. what with being kind of OCD sometimes.. :gsmile:
..and no matter how much I edit I usually see something to edit after posting :laughing7:
...the 2nd edit button seems to be working..
Something has been gnawing on my brain for awhile, why do we believe we have a soul?
In Genesis, when God breathed into the nostrils of Adam, he became a living soul (2:7)?
So I ask, why do we think we "have" a soul rather than believing we "are" a soul?
Thoughts?
Quote from: jugghead on May 28, 2019, 01:44:29 AM
Something has been gnawing on my brain for awhile, why do we believe we have a soul?
In Genesis, when God breathed into the nostrils of Adam, he became a living soul (2:7)?
So I ask, why do we think we "have" a soul rather than believing we "are" a soul?
Thoughts?
Some thoughts brother ,
I believe that our soul is the very seat of expressions that lives on past the mortal body [dying daily gradually ceasing to exist or function; in decline and about to disappear. ]
as under the old law of Moses it to is fading and about to disappear .
It is made of GOD though many of our own personal and unique character and is a part of Jesus Christ substance by faith .
char·ac·ter
/ˈkerəktər/
noun
1.
the mental and moral qualities distinctive to an individual.
"running away was not in keeping with her character"
synonyms: personality, nature, disposition, temperament, temper, mentality, turn of mind, psychology, psyche, constitution, makeup, make, stamp, mold, cast; More
2.
a person in a novel, play, or movie.
synonyms: persona, person, role, part; dramatis personae
"the characters develop greatly throughout the novel"
verb ARCHAIC
1.
inscribe; engrave. [wow on our hearts , this seed/Word of hope of glory to the Father , the Christ in you ] ????
I recall in Isaiah 53 I think , reading of Jesus soul foretold in being the Lamb of Gods sacrifice for the world .
When He sees His soul yes , it is 53
10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief:
when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he
shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
11
He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
This is the only sacrifice the Father accepts as a ''living sacrifice '' as innocent /holy blood .
So as I can tell it , in Adam all die [because of sin ,rebellion ] and in Christ [Life in and of itself ] all shall be made alive .
I am not sure this is helpful , but to me it helped to see the two natures , we experience though death and life of being
made both , total opposites as corruptible and incorruptible and yet being created and in bearing both images .
As mankind[Adam dust of the earth ] and as Jesus Christ [from heaven ]being a one of a kind Son , That everything is made new from His substance . [ the Light of the world and children of the Day are created from ]
Love your ability to share these thoughts brother ! it reminds me to ponder those deeper things that comfort us all by the Holy Spirit witness .
2 Cor6;16
We have two soles/souls[split hoofed] on our feet. Two legs to stand upright on and move in the spirit in LOVE FOR GOD=1leg
and our fellow man= 1leg. 2 Cor 6;16 God's spirit walks in and dwells in us when it is His holy spirit motivating us in love and truth.
Satans spirit also walks about in the earth...motivating and many walk in/after[follow]his ways,too.
when we fail to walk in love for God and/or our fellow man from a pure spirit of love[Holy]we walk 'haltingly' on our thigh,stumble and/or
fall.Many a man is overcome and beneath the dragons claws with his face in the dirt,and or embracing dung heaps/ash heaps.Not remain
upright.
man's body..made for God's spirit to dwell in..and walk in honour and manifest God's characteristics/personality/image is an earthly
host body for God's spirit...which equals soul/sole.Enter TOKOGAE or unlawful mixing..or God/good/and satans/evil spirits in mans
body..andit equals spiritual adultery. The soul/sole that is sinning will die...and Our Father showed that part of satans judgement be
that he not have a leg to stand on[leg-I-on]..and lose his soul/sole. satan crawls on his belly..and when his spirit is the motivating force
in a man's host body..he acts lower than a snakes belly/down in the dust, ,a snake in the grass,a serpent hanging on a tree.
when God removes all flesh from this earth..satan will not have a leg to stand on[no weak hosts body]..and will begin freefalling in the
abyss/pit he just climbed out of..and God will bring down fire and totally consume him.
The TOL has always been in the midst of the gardenfrom the beginning..and it is our spirit family tree..and men's spirits are the sons
of God.It is immortality of the spirit in the image/likeness of God.It is granted life in itself..as Jesus told you the Father granted him such
and Jesus received a commandment to freely grant it unto us as a gift[a perfect present..in that we received good present from God
in this life..that a little 'evil' has spoiled. Every good and perfect present is from above. And we shall be perfected in the spirit and
not the flesh...raised upin Christ's image..and certainly not knownas a man any longer..but a new creature.
til then we wrestle with powers/prince of this world[evil spirits] as to who will rule/reign in this house[host body] while on earth...
our own personal battle of armagheddon. In the Valley of the decision..the Ancient of Days has held court..the victory won by Christ
and the deadbones/host bodies of all men have been laid down on earth to be reassembled in that great temple body of Jesus and
God as lively stones and trees of righteousness..hewn from the earth..by a tool[satan] to be raised up in heaven by Christ.
p.s. Father and Jerusalem above love the pitter-patter of little feet about their house..when knock,knock,knocking on heavens door we
can all expect to be recieved with joy. Matt 7;7
pitt-er=man[my son] in the pit/dead/grave[fell to the earth and died]IS ALIVE!!! TY Jesus and Father for making this'impossible'
an I'AM POSSIBLE. :2c:
Awesome sis !
I agree and mostly though our experiences in seeking the face of our Lord and savior , we can become bitter [ defiling our whole body ] a prison of sorts until we pay the last penny and days wage , do not let the sun go down on your wrath , but make amends quickly while on the way to the court to see the judge .
Or makes us better , by accepting all things pertaining to this life as stepping stones to a higher level of understanding that it is all for our own good . because we do consider the Lord and know to Love the Lord for His mercy on us all .
we forgive and be forgiven by a loving heart towards God , not letting the offences consume us , with evil thoughts on anyone , but pray for our enemies and do good and not the evil that presents itself as an opportunity to stumble .
If we do stumble the Lord is our advocate and helper and though we stumble 7 times God is able to make us stand in the truth ...
perhaps lame , but able to stand and not fall away nor left in the dust or give up our lively hope of seeing Gods glory in everything along the way .
. I am sorry this got off the true subject of our souls condition and state of being different having one or are being a living one bro Jugg ,
Of being a soul or are a living soul . or a soul still bound up in death and needing to be set free by the truth of hearing what the Spirit is saying they are words of Life quicking us .
or have a soul still needing the salvation of Gods faithful witness begin working to the end and healing the deadly wound and save that part that needs to be healed and set free .. love to hear your thoughts on this also bro .
great subject , I did not consider it so thoughtfully before you mentioned it so matter of factly and plainly yay!! GOD IS GOOD ALWAYS :Peace2: :dsunny: :HeartThrob:
Quote from: rosered on May 28, 2019, 12:22:41 PM
Quote from: jugghead on May 28, 2019, 01:44:29 AM
Something has been gnawing on my brain for awhile, why do we believe we have a soul?
In Genesis, when God breathed into the nostrils of Adam, he became a living soul (2:7)?
So I ask, why do we think we "have" a soul rather than believing we "are" a soul?
Thoughts?
Some thoughts brother ,
I believe that our soul is the very seat of expressions that lives on past the mortal body [dying daily gradually ceasing to exist or function; in decline and about to disappear. ]
as under the old law of Moses it to is fading and about to disappear .
I fully agree Rose and what else I see in this is "that all things become new", and would that not include our soul? What I mean by this is: that it is a transformation/regeneration of "a soul of darkness" into "a soul of light"
and that I can see the soul as both the mind and the heart, the very seat of the expressions of thought and emotions, and that when we are born into this world our soul is neutral; meaning it is neither "of darkness" or "of light" but by the teachings of man/flesh our soul decends into darkness which is the dying process, for we must first die in order to be resurrected, then by the teachings of Christ through His Spirit which He has given, we are now ascending out of darkness/grave into the light by the renewing of the mind and the giving of a new heart in exchange for the old heart, so that the new heart becomes the cause for the renewing of the mind, of which Christ IS the new heart that we have been given.
Thus just as the glory of the light can fade or be taken away by the world, as we decend into darkness/grave by man/flesh so will the darkness/grave fade away in our ascention into light.
Even though our soul is neutral at birth, it is given both light and darkness as we physically grow up, but who is persuading us to believe the darkness and who is persuading us to believe the light?
Just as sheila said in the two hoofed example, it is a walk in darkness and light, each at their time, just as in this physical world that is constantly turning from darkness into light and light into darkness.
and that even though we may decend into darkness, we have been persuaded (have faith) that He will bring us out of the darkness, just as we can see the sunrise in each day as our hope of this, and that even though we know that darkness may come again, just like nighttime in this physical world, we need not be afraid knowing He will protect us and we will be brought out of it.
I myself do not see that the soul itself fades away, but that the soul is transformed by the fading of darkness that it was taught by the seed of man/flesh as it is brought into the light, taught by the Spirit to the seed of Christ in us, for His Spirit unto Himself in us is like rain unto a seed.
This is how I understand "the soul" that it is both our mind and our heart, and as you put it "the very seat of expression", which I also understand as the very seat of expression of both thought and emotion, which of course has to be transformed by the expression of the thoughts and emotions of God FROM the expression of the thoughts and emotions of men.
In short, transformed into light from darkness.
Just me sharing my thoughts and emotions on this subject
Blessings
Amen Bro J ,
TO GOD BE THE GLORY :dsunny:
Soul Strong's H5315 - nephesh
נֶפֶשׁ
Transliteration
nephesh
Pronunciation
neh'·fesh (Key)
Part of Speech
feminine noun
Root Word (Etymology)
From נָפַשׁ (H5314)
TWOT Reference
1395a
Outline of Biblical Usage
soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion
that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
living being
living being (with life in the blood)
the man himself, self, person or individual
seat of the appetites
seat of emotions and passions
activity of mind
dubious
activity of the will
dubious
activity of the character
dubious , they make the last 3 explanations as hesitating or doubting the meaning , but put it out there .
It could very well be as repentance granted or changing our minds + hearts as an act of God as to be healed and made whole as joined with His own soul /life +heart , as same desires .
Changed from the past to be forgiven and forgotten from sorrowful to being comforted .
I had to consider the Hebrew meanings with the Greek for repentance .
It is all so very beautiful really when we dig in deeper and yet simplify
:dsunny: :HeartThrob:
Quote from: jugghead on May 28, 2019, 01:44:29 AM
Something has been gnawing on my brain for awhile, why do we believe we have a soul?
In Genesis, when God breathed into the nostrils of Adam, he became a living soul (2:7)?
So I ask, why do we think we "have" a soul rather than believing we "are" a soul?
Thoughts?
I agree.. we are a living soul.. 1 Tim.6:16 "..He
alone Who is immortal.." is not man, nor woman. Soul - psyche is the Greek..
Those who have not God, have not life.. Jesus was quite plain about that. It's my belief that the teaching and belief of man's inherent / within himself immortality is a direct contradiction of what God says..
Those who have Christ "have life" and those who do not - have Christ - do not (YET) have life.. How wonderful to know all shall! :gsmile: I believe by end of "the judgment" all will "have life".. Because He says so.. and also logic. after rising from one's grave and witnessing "the judgment" during which the Queen of the south will speak against the Pharisees.. during which Sodom and Gomorrah will speak against the cities which witnessed the works of Jesus yet did not "believe".. Which also I have to believ "the judgment" to be a Great Day of Review of all history.. as why would/could He possibly overlook such a perfect teaching opportunity to drive home what it is He is convincing ALL of! If He has taken the pains of letting things / all things, drift away from Him, completely aware of His competence to "draw ALL" back.. over these 6000 years.. Why would He not be totally capable to have the whoLe thing be His absolute teaching tool.. Experience being the "best teacher" - after His Holy Spririt, of course. It makes no sense to me otherwise.. Like God was unprepared? Like He had no idea what would happen? Like He was taken by surprise?.. Puhlease! I figure His endowing thinking and reasoning ability, changed everything. So I figure that's also the solution.. It says the Spirit will "convince the world".. ALL thoroughly convinced that with God is life, and w/o God, no life to be had. It just cannot ever work. Life built on the Rock = life. Not built on the rock = tribulation and apocalypse and "great is the fall of it".
In Deuteronomy God said "I set before thee, life and death.. choose life.." Which to me means death/lacking life, is the opposite of life. It wasn't God who said "surely you won't die.." But He said dust thou art and to dust shall you return.. Ps 30, "can the dust praise you?"
:thumbsup:
I believe we all agree with that sis , that many have not been awakened to righteousness yet . for me that was a no brainer :laugh:
all souls are mine EZK
18 Lo, all the souls are Mine, As the soul of the father, So also the soul of the son -- they are Mine, The soul that is sinning -- it doth die. many souls are experiencing life and death I sure know i have ,death is corruption in my own opinion , φθορά phthorá, fthor-ah'; from G5351; decay, i.e. ruin (spontaneous or inflicted, literally or figuratively):—corruption, destroy, perish. I would say good riddance to that stinking thinking .
But the resurrection process is not going to be like most expect it to be , again in my own opinion when we lift him up just as the serpent on the pole in Moses Day so is the SON OF MAN in his day .
but you must also consider , that Paul said in Acts 17, by his very testimony ,
Therefore what you worship as something unknown, I now proclaim to you.
24The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples made by human hands. 25Nor is He served by human hands, as if He needed anything, because He Himself gives all men life and breath and everything else. 26From one man He made every nation of men, to inhabit the whole earth; and He determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their lands.
27God intended that they would seek Him and perhaps reach out for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us. 28'For in Him we live and move and have our being.'a As some of your own poets have said, 'We are His offspring.'b 29Therefore, being offspring of God, we should not think that the Divine Being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by man's skill and imagination.
30Although God overlooked the ignorance of earlier times, He now commands all men everywhere to repent. 31For He has set a day when He will judge the world with justice by the Man He has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising Him from the dead."
32When they heard about the resurrection of the dead, some began to mock him, but others said, "We want to hear you again on this topic." 33At that, Paul left the Areopagus. 34But some people joined him and believed, including Dionysius the Areopagite, a woman named Damaris, and others who were with them.
JESUS SAYS PLAINLY I AM THE RESURRECTION John 11 24Martha replied, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day." 25Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me will live, even though he dies. 26And everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"...
in Adam / mankind all die but in Christ all are made alive
For me the big clue was Jesus stating 7 different times he is the IAM , even back in the days of old . Jesus answered, 'before Abraham was born, I am!'
I am the living bread that came from heaven , I am the door of the sheepfold
I am the way and the truth and the life
I am the light of the world Iam the true shepherd , I am the true vine
the great I AM When Moses first encountered God and was told to go and lead God's people out of slavery, he asked God what he should say if the people asked who sent him. God replied, "This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'" (Exodus 3:14). ...
Jesus identified himself as the great "I AM." and by the same Spirit of prophecy is the same testimony of Jesus
so we have LIFE even if we do not know it , in my own opinion ... because many are still asleep and have not awakened to righteousness fully yet , but Paul said he spoke this to their/our shame .. 1 Cor 15
awake up, as is right, and sin not; for certain have an ignorance of God; for shame to you I say it.
The point I am trying to make is this , the glory of God is filling the earth and many can not see it / Him yet .
because they are still bound up in grave clothes... that is the doctrines of death message still preached to this day and it is a shame a dirty and rotten shame really and are not clothed in Christ because the need for more labourers of love to be sent :sigh:
becoming living epistles/letters and not dead letters that is without the Spirit of Life in them
2We always thank God for all of you, making mention of you in our prayers 3and continually recalling before our God and Father your work of faith, your labor of love, and your enduring hope in our Lord Jesus Christ.
4Brothers who are beloved by God, we know that He has chosen you, 5because our gospel came to you not only in word, but also in power, in the Holy Spirit, and with great conviction—just as you know we lived among you for your sake. 6And you became imitators of us and of the Lord when you welcomed the message with the joy of the Holy Spirit, in spite of your great suffering.
I say we are experiencing both life and death at the same time ! it is the division Jesus Christ speaks of doing to us in Luke 12 ... by Holy Spirit and fire ...
I have come to cause division Not Peace, but Division
49 a"I came to cast fire on the earth, and would that it were already kindled!
50 bI have a baptism to be baptized with, and how cgreat is my distress until it is accomplished!
51 Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division.
52 For from now on in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three.
53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."
Interpreting the Time
54 He also said to the crowds, "When you see ha cloud rising in the west, you say at once, 'A shower is coming.' And so it happens. 55 And gwhen you see the south wind blowing, you say, 'There will be scorching heat,' and it happens. 56 You hypocrites! You know how to interpret the appearance of earth and sky, but why do you not know how to interpret the present time?
Life and death are yours and all things are yours and you are Christs and Christ is Gods and our souls are affected and effected with many emotions by experiencing GOD ! Some know it is Gods will and accept it as such , but many just do not understand what is happening to them . and it is in those times of trouble and torment they do seek the LORD .
I was one among those that did so .
We can only share what we believe and am grateful to GOD in His mercy on us all.
Quote from: jugghead on May 28, 2019, 01:44:29 AM
Something has been gnawing on my brain for awhile, why do we believe we have a soul?
In Genesis, when God breathed into the nostrils of Adam, he became a living soul (2:7)?
So I ask, why do we think we "have" a soul rather than believing we "are" a soul?
Thoughts?
I think if the world did not believe in man's naturally occurring immortality.. or that is, did not believe man has eternal life without bending the knee to God by believing in Jesus, the hell myth would no longer hold any water. Would no longer be believed and embraced.
As man as immortal ='s a place needed for those who die without faith in Jesus.
I have believed this for a very long time.
And very recently, I have come to the belief that - even tho "our God is a consuming/purifying fire" and ALL are baptized in that fire - I now believe lake of fire references are prophecy, AND EARTHLY! :faint: not that I expect anyone to hear me..
But with these two - that man in the natural and w/o Jesus - is not immortal.. that everlasting life is only in Jesus --
and the lake of fire as earthly events
='s - poof! Hell (in teaching) - is - gone. :banana:
1 Tim.6:16 - says about God - "He, who, alone, is immortal." But man with his myths constantly contradict God, the adversary said "Surely. You won't die" first claim of man being immortal - immortal without God. Without Jesus.
But, Jesus said
He is the life.
He is the resurrection. And He said the wage sin pays is death. But God sent His Son, so none would perish.. would not "perish". The result of sin is nowhere in scripture said to be immortal life in hell.
I think the adversary needs the myth of immortal soul, to keep the fires of the hell myth burning.
:banana:
We are so close , in this ........ just a tads hair different thinking , great summary Marie
I just believe they have Christ but do not know it yet , the dead know nothing about the knowledge of God , lack of Jesus Christ the knowledge of God
but the seed is dormant , He is not very far away from any of us equating all of mankind ,
adjective
(of an animal) having normal physical functions suspended or slowed down for a period of time; in or as if in a deep sleep.
"dormant butterflies"
synonyms: asleep, sleeping, slumbering, resting, reposing, drowsing, comatose, supine; More
(of a plant or bud) alive but not actively growing.
synonyms: asleep, sleeping, slumbering, resting, reposing, drowsing, comatose, supine; More
(of a volcano) temporarily inactive.
I believe God has chosen some for this very purpose and it is sure hidden in His Word , as this also fulfills Gods desire
Everyone has been appointed their part in Gods plan in order to be able to save that which is lost , there must be some lost correct ? in order for the salvation of all to be fulfilled
and also this is why we are told over and over again throughout the Word of God to not judge our brother /fellow man , they might very well be fulfilling Gods purpose , we are just told to pray , pray , pray for GODS desire to be done on everyone and everything and there are some that DO pray exactly for that , more of Gods plan be revealed and unfolded
simply and plainly before all eyes opened mixed with faith and understanding and more Spiritual growth in truth and grace
the kind of holy and pure fruits or works that prove excellent results that cannot be denied by anyone .
I do believe that God is merciful in His ways , when He made known to those whom see it , where there is no law there is no transgression , so they remain innocent or without judgement from God , forgiven because they do not know what they are doing , [subjected to vanity not willingly ] , in other words not their choice to be that way but they are fulfilling Gods purpose . many is called according to His purpose and those roles such as Judas was as a villain , ther had to be a villain in order for Gods purpose to prove what is TRUE .
but few are chosen for certain and exceptional roles , hard pressed to expose what was hidden to be revealed in Christ , there had to be many false christs revealed , to prove that the anointings or christos are not the TRUE CHRIST .
It is for those whom know and willfully disobey , that is the demonic , but even they fulfill Gods plan and purpose for the time but perish in the using [come to destroy us before the time /end ]
GODS own plan , if it were even possible even the very elect /or chosen of God would be deceived ! just that one little sentence Jesus says tons in GODS wisdom alone .
I believe God just wants us to have a very personal and intimate relationship with Him and be reconciled to HIM and it will be by mercy on GODS part in the end , not just talking about God but actually walking in the Spirit of Life with God
judging is something the natural man does by nature and it is to our own detriment , because God does make us liars in some of our judgements , because we misjudged [ missed the mark of the higher calling to rise up and be with Him now in the Spirit of Life ] and are judged by our own understanding or to Gods glory being revealed in our poor interpretations of what God is doing
GODS OWN WISDOM is what can justify us as His children or disqualify us as still deceived and Babylons hold is still in confusion by mixing the spirit of error or the Spirit of Life , having an abundant Life now as being content with what God has chosen for us is to His glory and purpose and plan , and wait on the LORD to fulfill all things , for obedience is better than all the sacrifices one makes in vain or to be seen of men or men pleasers . With that sword or word it just does not cut it with God .
I am not trying to be contrary at all to anyone , I just have this strong conviction or firmly held belief in my heart that all of us are at His mercy and for us to really be asking for Gods mercy in judgement on all as the times are getting extreme in both natures being shown openly and is a good thing to be trusting GODS plan as our own also .
I do love you all and know this now , more than ever , God does come to us in the Spirit of gentleness but also come to us with a rod of correction and in that much I do still hold a healthy fear or more of deep reverence and respect for our FATHERS awesome ability to make us believers one way or the other we will learn His righteousness .
What an awesome post Rose!
Quote from: rosered on May 30, 2019, 12:00:16 PM
:banana:
We are so close , in this ........ just a tads hair different thinking , great summary Marie
I just believe they have Christ but do not know it yet , the dead know nothing about the knowledge of God , lack of Jesus Christ the knowledge of God
but the seed is dormant , He is not very far away from any of us equating all of mankind ,
Amen sister.. and thanks!
...when I read "the seed is dormant, into my mind came the image of a seed lying dormant.. in the ground.. and the dirt was very dry..
How wonderful to know that all (will) rise! Because Jesus came and died on the cross for ALL mankind. Otherwise we would all have simply remained but a dormant seed, lying in dry, dusty earth.. God told Adam dust art thou and to dust shall you return.. Adam having been formed of that very earth/dust..
I see the extended garden of God as the wheat, the tares, and the dormant, but planted seed(s) in a garden row.. in graves with headstones / in beds with gravestones.. (not languishing consciously "still in their sins" for centuries or millennia, because He is merciful).
Quote
adjective
(of an animal) having normal physical functions suspended or slowed down for a period of time; in or as if in a deep sleep.
"dormant butterflies"
synonyms: asleep, sleeping, slumbering, resting, reposing, drowsing, comatose, supine; More
(of a plant or bud) alive but not actively growing.
synonyms: asleep, sleeping, slumbering, resting, reposing, drowsing, comatose, supine; More
(of a volcano) temporarily inactive.
I believe God has chosen some for this very purpose and it is sure hidden in His Word , as this also fulfills Gods desire
Everyone has been appointed their part in Gods plan in order to be able to save that which is lost , there must be some lost correct ? in order for the salvation of all to be fulfilled
Amen :thumbsup: ..and in a (truth-proving) drama, there, in essence, has to be more than one (type of) character! :gsmile:
Quote
and also this is why we are told over and over again throughout the Word of God to not judge our brother /fellow man , they might very well be fulfilling Gods purpose , we are just told to pray , pray , pray for GODS desire to be done on everyone and everything and there are some that DO pray exactly for that , more of Gods plan be revealed and unfolded
simply and plainly before all eyes opened mixed with faith and understanding and more Spiritual growth in truth and grace
the kind of holy and pure fruits or works that prove excellent results that cannot be denied by anyone .
Amen, sister.. we are told to be like Jesus.. "as Jesus was in the worls" He came not to judge but to save.. so we should bless not curse.. be a blessing not a curse.. to merely love.. not concern ones self with what others do or do not do.. as so much of ET seems to do.. but the admonitions in Acts and in letters was directed to the church of the Lord.. not to those who are still "outside" (for the time being).. Being judgmental of unbelievers does great harm to the world's perception and opinion of the Good News.. (And why would God not be merciful, when the not yet reconciled with God - fully, on their end - do not get to hear the
accurate glorious news?)
Quote
I do believe that God is merciful in His ways , when He made known to those whom see it , where there is no law there is no transgression , so they remain innocent or without judgement from God , forgiven because they do not know what they are doing , [subjected to vanity not willingly ] , in other words not their choice to be that way but they are fulfilling Gods purpose . many is called according to His purpose and those roles such as Judas was as a villain , ther had to be a villain in order for Gods purpose to prove what is TRUE .
but few are chosen for certain and exceptional roles , hard pressed to expose what was hidden to be revealed in Christ , there had to be many false christs revealed , to prove that the anointings or christos are not the TRUE CHRIST .
It is for those whom know and willfully disobey , that is the demonic , but even they fulfill Gods plan and purpose for the time but perish in the using [come to destroy us before the time /end ]
GODS own plan , if it were even possible even the very elect /or chosen of God would be deceived ! just that one little sentence Jesus says tons in GODS wisdom alone .
I believe God just wants us to have a very personal and intimate relationship with Him and be reconciled to HIM and it will be by mercy on GODS part in the end , not just talking about God but actually walking in the Spirit of Life with God
judging is something the natural man does by nature and it is to our own detriment , because God does make us liars in some of our judgements , because we misjudged [ missed the mark of the higher calling to rise up and be with Him now in the Spirit of Life ] and are judged by our own understanding or to Gods glory being revealed in our poor interpretations of what God is doing
GODS OWN WISDOM is what can justify us as His children or disqualify us as still deceived and Babylons hold is still in confusion by mixing the spirit of error or the Spirit of Life , having an abundant Life now as being content with what God has chosen for us is to His glory and purpose and plan , and wait on the LORD to fulfill all things , for obedience is better than all the sacrifices one makes in vain or to be seen of men or men pleasers . With that sword or word it just does not cut it with God .
I am not trying to be contrary at all to anyone , I just have this strong conviction or firmly held belief in my heart that all of us are at His mercy and for us to really be asking for Gods mercy in judgement on all as the times are getting extreme in both natures being shown openly and is a good thing to be trusting GODS plan as our own also .
I do love you all and know this now , more than ever , God does come to us in the Spirit of gentleness but also come to us with a rod of correction and in that much I do still hold a healthy fear or more of deep reverence and respect for our FATHERS awesome ability to make us believers one way or the other we will learn His righteousness .
....amen. "Judgment begins with the house of God" ...prior to the 70a.d. judgment, the believers went through fiery trials.. but at 70a.d. they remembered Jesus' words to them, and at the right time they left/came out of Jerusalem, none perished and a time of much peace came upon them.. they did not suffer the wrath of 70a.d. (I am reminded of a verse.. / verses.. a sword He is bringing upon all nations - the foaming cup of wine - aka, results? consequences? - the full cup of which the nations will drink. Merciful! For how else does one learn? ...TO LET IMPERFECTION - bottomless pit of potential - exist and actually run its course.. PROVING to all - forever - go not that way. Letting even the some of the worst things occur - which He being life itself and every where Present suffers through it all! - What grace! What wisdom! That ALL and all things return / are drawn back to Him!
I have to think that those who die still in their sins, when they rise in the "resurrection of judgment" ("1000 years after the resurrection to Life @ Jesus' return to the planet & the instituting of His millennial rule is begun - His long 2nd advent). And I have to think "the judgment" is NOT punishment as some few of ET seem to joyfully believe. But just a continuation of their learning and thus -- being reconciled. And by end of that - what surely must be a very long 'day' of "correction"/teaching/guiding/etc. ALL will be enrolled in the Lamb's book of life. The ALL being very (very?) obvious once the long 2nd advent of our Lord is understood and percieved. We have a very clear outline of that (long) advent.. but few, if any see it?
2nd advent of our Lord.. the "
Trumpets" of REv. and His return at the last one - 10days/1000yrs later --
Day oF Atonement called Judgment --- 5days/500yrs later --- "God will now
Tabernacle with mankind upon Earth made new with ALL having been reconciled and made new.. in the "
all, in all" event of Rev.21:1-5.
imo, when that outline is seen, UR/CU
cannot be denied! :banana: :dsunny:
:HeartThrob: bless you sister! :girlheart:
God bless you sis Marie , :girlheart:
God has used you to help me in many ways , all have had their part and am thankful to GOD for every last one of them .
Growing in truth and grace is never as easy at it sounds , there is true growing pains along the way . lots of lopping and pruning away things I thought were good and they were not helpful at all.
I do believe when we are in Jesus Christ and under His authority we can begin to breath in the Spirit of life and grow
in His own Wisdom , a lesson learned was when Peter was told he had to be sifted like wheat by satan's hand
I was confused by that for so long lol . I thought Jesus prayer example , was to keep us from the evil one .
Did Peter understand fully yet ? , because Jesus said , when you are converted and that is turned around again , feed my sheep
Jesus told Peter I have prayed that your faith not fail you during the testing period.
Wow what an eye opener that was and aha! moment for sure .
So when Paul said he also turned some over to satan for the destruction of their flesh so in the Day of the Lord their spirit would be saved , it made me wonder if the Day of the Lord was when they would have Light and knowledge of God in the HOLY SPIRIT at the time of testing and the end of that lesson learned , just what the righteousness of God in the earth as it is in heaven really means .
a wake up call if you can see it in that way . or trumpet blasting as the warning of a judgment is near .
a time to shine forth from a broken vessel that has just been cracked ,by the rod of correction , as the LIGHT SHINES [CHRIST in you the hope of glory ] out of the darkness and ignorance that kept us bound up in unbelief , by the hardened hearts
from the law and ministration of death that is passing or fading away and the DAY has come to us ..as reconciled to God and a time of planting and sowing the seeds and labouring in love and watering , the works Jesus is calling us to do as his own chosen out of the market place for the harvesting of souls .
I do not know and cannot judge one way or the other I do know Gods plan of the ages is being done by His own Spirit and and truth in the Life everlasting . there is so much more to learn of Him and love learning but also wanting to come to the full knowledge of truth also even more so .
God is patient and kind , the gentleness of His Spirit overwhelms me at times , in tears of sheer gratitude , and mercy just blesses our souls with such a comfort & joy set before us , if we can just keep on keeping on, till the end . :dsunny: :HeartThrob:
Amen Rose.. we are entrusted with a little.. that we may put it to the usury.. that we may be found of Him at His coming, helping to feed His household.. Peter, I think it was, said in one of his letters, are you not our crown of rejoicing when He returns..? :Chinscratch: :dontknow: maybe it was Paul..
By knowing Him.. by our heart’s cry of “abba! Father!” - which is the seal upon our heart - His seal! Which proves we are His. (Romans?) We are each one a letter to the world, our little corner.. and the seal of His signet ring is upon that letter.. The notarizing which is the pledge/down payment and guarantee that we shall receive all that He has promised (Romans?)
Peter, Paul and John all warned the toddler church, fight earnestly for the pure message of the gospel. This convinced me that I want to be fully grounded and conformed to His Word, especially our loaf, the New Testament/covenant/ratification. In Spirit.. genuinely and sincerely. For it is His revealed will to us. And if there was the constant assault of error upon that invigorated church.. how much more so today in the world’s fullness of time.. where the world is compassing the faith - is making war with it.. The fruit maturing and ripening. So I want to always pray earnestly for truth, all truth and nothing but truth. For building on the foundation of truth is the works which shall not burn up at His arrival.
It’s not at all surprising that somehow the simple message of all saved from eternal death (aka, sin) and living with God in His magnificent paradise of love and fruits.. (literal) the former ways never again coming up in the hearts.. has been swamped.. muddied.. diluted by the world over these 2 millennia. I figure there is one rule/measuring rod of what is true from what is not true. And it is not my heart.
If we will continue in His Word and Spirit (our daily bread and wine) we will be found of Him being faithful. And our works will remain, being gold and silver, not stubble and hay.
And what is truth? (Pilate asked..) Surely.. Love is truth.
And love never fails. Not ever. So we can be very assured - since it’s His goodness, not our being ‘good’ or measuring up, that matters. This lets us “rest in Him”. One day it will be (?) “let ALL keep (blessed) silence before Him”... Imagine.. ALL his children and angels around and before His throne.. and ALL, for a moment, in utter speechless awe and amazement. For who He is, and also for what He is creating.
Bless you sister! He, as we know, is our Sabbath rest. :HeartThrob: In Him, we are perfect (even while- speaking for myself, we are so seriously flawed. :cloud9: )
:thumbsup: love you sis Marie :HeartThrob:
Just as rain rightly divides the light to reveal the rainbow
so does
the Spirit rightly divide the word to reveal the promise
Quote from: jugghead on June 19, 2019, 01:46:29 AM
Just as rain rightly divides the light to reveal the rainbow
so does
the Spirit rightly divide the word to reveal the promise
:thumbsup:
Quote from: jugghead on June 19, 2019, 01:46:29 AM
Just as rain rightly divides the light to reveal the rainbow
so does
the Spirit rightly divide the word to reveal the promise
Amen! Love it! :gsmile:
Quote from: rosered on May 31, 2019, 12:13:50 AM
:thumbsup: love you sis Marie :HeartThrob:
Thank you sister! You just made my day! And right back at you! <3 emoji's are missing.. :gsmile:
I miss so much when I am out on the road, not being able to keep up with all the posts put up on the boards. But when I do, I find things fit together at their proper time, namely this specific one at this point by EW:
Quote from: eaglesway on May 14, 2019, 12:14:20 AM
Throughout my life as a believer, I have periodically run across things in the scriptures that no matter how I tried and prayed and studied, I just didnt feel I had a full balanced understanding. I would finlly commit it to God and leave it. Sometimes it was years, decades even before I received what I felt was the "real deal". I remember wondering and agonizing over the beautiful things I read in Ephesians and being beside myself because I could feel the glory just beyond the veil....I just could nt quite reach it. Many years later, I began to see the fabric within the words and the beautiful themes in that letter, included among them the restoration of all things, the workings of the body of Christ, the beauty of the Lamb and His love for His bride.
Two verses I never felt quite "there" with are these....
Matthew 16:19 (with some context)
Simon Peter answered, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God."
17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades c will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be d bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be e loosed in heaven."
I have heard a lot of theories on exactly what the keys to the kingdom and binding and loosing are. I have never felt comfortable, or "rested" in those things Ive read and seen practised.
The other verse is Matthew 11:12
12"From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and violent men take it by force. 13"For all the prophets and the Law prophesied until John. 14"And if you are willing to accept it, John himself is Elijah who was to come. 15"He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
I believe the Holy Spirit gave me something on these the other night so I want to share.....not as if I got "the" revelation on it, but just as something I received that the fellowship can discern for themselves. If it adds something to someone's understanding- wonderful.
A couple of nights ago I was at home after work. That day I had received keys from two new customers...I do building maintenance for a living.
The words came into my mind, "When does someone give you their keys".
I thought for only a minute and answered, "When they trust me".
Immediateltly the verse from Matthew 16" ame to mind. I realized as I sat that no amount of knowledge or fervor can gain one the "keys to the kingdom." Coming out of a charismatic/pentecostal I have seen people(and joined in) pray and fast for the keys to the kingdom. Study, praise, "step out in faith" etc..... but very rarely did I see results that appearred to me to really be just that.
Jesus gives the keys to the kingdom to people He trusts.
Then these verses in John 15 came to mind.
12"This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you. 13"Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends. 14"You are My friends if you do what I command you. 15"No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. 16"You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. 17"This I command you, that you love one another."
Jesus trusts His friends. His servants become His friends when they love one another. He will not give the keys to anyone else.
This leads into the second verse in Matthew 11.
I always wondered what "the kingdom of heaven suffers violence and violent men take it by force" means. I never felt rested in the explanations I had received. SOme thought this is good. Pray, fast, "wrestle with God". Take the kingdom by force", but I am seeing something different.
As I thought on these things, I got up and went across the street to the deli. When I got back, I realized I had grabbed the wrong set of keys. I was locked out of my apartment building. :dunno2: But, theres a little trick. If I pull up on the door knob and give the door a stiff jolt, it will open- without breaking the door. So I did it. I entered through the door without the key. I took my entrance by force.
I have seen many such tricks in my life, spiritually, among men and women of God- myself included. Always I have smelled the "strange fire" and felt something amiss, but I couldnt put my finger on it, because I wasnt clear within my own spirit of the reason for it- a mixture of motivations that defile the offering.
Love is the only "acceptable offering". Ambition, lust for power and glory, the desire to be "somebody"- all these things grieve the Spirit and make the "servant" unable to be a "friend" to all.
Abraham was God's friend and He received the promise, and the promise was a "word" that did not "fall to the ground"- that all the nations of the earth would be blessed by his "seed"- Jesus.
To be the friend of God, to be a servant who becomes his/her master's friend- that is the way to the keys- but it can never be to "get the keys", to do some "great thing". Only Jesus will say, "you serve me well, I trust you, you have become my friend, I am giving you the keys to my Father's house. You will speak with the authority of love within these walls, and whatever you say will be done, because it will be of love."
Where Jesus walked, the miracles He did and the lives He touched and healed and set free were the result of Him freely giving what He had freely received of His Father. His motives were pure. It was all of love. He demanded no pay or personal return, and to told those who received the blessing to be quiet about it.
He cast out demons "with a word." He didnt "cut himself" or pray long drawn out prayer in glorious words. He had the keys because He was a son over His Father's house. Father of love, son of love disciples of love. No one can successfully "demand" some elses trust or "command" their love. It is a fruit of relationship, and it produces the fruit of eternal life.
:2c:
When the apostle Paul writes:
"For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:" (Romans 1:20) (emphasis is mine)
When we know that "to reconcile" is "His master key", He begins to show us things in the creation (the physical) that are reconciled to the Spirit, just like the earlier post about the rainbow, that within a physical example that we can physically see, He will show us His own spiritual attributes through those physical examples, thus the creation is reconciled back to Him (His Spirit).
And just as the physical example of someone handing over keys, through that physical example we receive what is hidden within that physical example, but yet, it remains hidden to the rest of the world until we loose it by sharing it with others and by this we can see His Spirit at work in others.
Scripture also states through Paul:
"But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;" (1st Corinthians 1:27)The example of the rainbow can be foolish to some, just as the example EW gave with the handing over of the keys, but in these (what the world may consider as) little examples He reveals mighty things and I myself believe that if these things do not make us a better person, being more compassionate, being more forgiving, being more loving, being more trustworthy then we were before these things were revealed then does that in itself render things of "no effect"?
For me, to see the creation reconciled to God is a big example of the physical being reconciled to the spiritual and that all of this can be seen in the simplest example of "the body being reconciled to the Spirit" for they are taken together in the act of communion and by it they become one and the body becomes incorruptible because the Spirit is incorruptible.
:2c:
Also wanted to add:
the example of "the handing over of the keys" by EW now becomes a corner of his harvest that I can glean from.
Thank you brother
I love how the Lord teaches.. guides.. EW's parable of the keys "gsmile"
And also how Truth is itself very beautiful.. both when communicated poetically.. via the heart of a poet.. and when communicated as down to earth gritty truth!
I was impressed in my studies today by an interlinear word for word translation of Hebrews 1:1 - I love how so many of the letters open with some profound thoughts - "In many portions, and in many ways, God has spoken to the fathers.."
Idk, "in many portions" seemed to be spiritually highlighted.. He reveals in portions.. and also in many ways.. And He continues to build upon what He teaches, as He guides us into all truth.. (Rev.7)
Quote from: jugghead on May 28, 2019, 01:44:29 AM
Something has been gnawing on my brain for awhile, why do we believe we have a soul?
In Genesis, when God breathed into the nostrils of Adam, he became a living soul (2:7)?
So I ask, why do we think we "have" a soul rather than believing we "are" a soul?
Thoughts?
This is an old writing of mine.........hope it helps..........I want to share some things to meditate on before the Lord that He has been showing me and adding to, as always, with the witness of the Word and the Tabernacle of Moses.
PART 1.....Salvation is not a one time event, but a progressive process of restoring all that was lost in the garden. We were saved (spirit/outer court), we are being saved (soul/inner court), and we shall be saved (body/Holy of Holies). That word for salvation is an active verb, not a passive noun.
So let's think about what death IS; the spirit leaves the body AND the soul behind. So what happens to the soul? If "she" is not fully redeemed (work out your own salvation with fear and trembling), a "divorce" happens at the death of the body when the spirit leaves. God put them together here for the purpose of working out our salvation, and finding our way back into the garden we fell from, thru Christ. This is why it says what GOD has put together let no man put asunder.
And why Jesus told the Pharisees who asked Him about divorce, He said, "For the hardness of your hearts, Moses (the letter/literal mindset) allowed a bill of divorcement. When you run those word meanings down you find out "hardness of your hearts" means, "dull of hearing".
So let me rephrase that scripture now. Because "we" are hard of hearing/deaf (deaf to the Spirit speaking), the letter, will allow our spirit to be separated from our soul (divorce) = DIE.
This is why it is said, the DEAF shall hear.....we must seek to hear in this day because it is the dawning of the 7th day (Sabbath in John 5) when all those that hear the VOICE of the Son of God, shall live. Hereafter we'll not know Him (or hear Him) after the flesh but after the Spirit.
So as I said, we are a triune being of spirit, soul, and body which correspond to the 3 parts of the Tabernacle. The spirit is what is saved first of the 3 parts of man. So we start with all 3 parts of man "in" the realm of the outer court. That's the same as Adam/spirit and Eve/soul standing in the wilderness after the fall, and this is the place of OUTER darkness, with weeping and gnashing of teeth.
So as the process of salvation begins, Adam/spirit comes back into the light of the Spirit first, and is as the priests of the inner court realm that went in to minister in the presence of the Candlestick for the others in the (outer court), which obviously was for HIS WIFE (soul) as well as the others that could not come past the outer court by reason of them not being of the priesthood (redeemed spirit/Adam).
On a spiritual understanding level; BECAUSE this swallowing up of Adam/spirit is a type of "death", exchanging our life for His at that level, the Eve/soul becomes as a "widow". This enables HIS BROTHER (Christ) to raise up seed to him, which is why it says the WOMAN is SAVED in childbirth, ie. impregnated by Holy seed, preparing to manifest/birth the mature Son.
See, our understanding was that the Son is ONLY male, and that has hindered us from seeing the truth. But in Adam, He made them both male/spirit and female/soul IN ONE, and so too in the original pattern, Christ, there is neither male nor female; but not because there is either/or, but because there is BOTH. He also restores our soul (Eve), not just our spirit (Adam), and both will be found in Him again.
SO; this is why it says work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. That word salvation there also means deliverance, ie. deliverance from the things that have the soul bound.
Now for the pattern timeline; we have ALL been in that dark night of the soul for the two days of Pentecost that the inner court represents in the timeline afforded us by the Tabernacle, by Jesus's own words to Herod, ie. today (1000) and tomorrow (1000) I will do cures and cast out devils = the 2 "days" dealing withe the deliverance of the soul of man.
In the fall, the separation/divorce of the soul and spirit from Him and each other, occured. This is the current state of man, that the process of redemption is restoring. If this process is not completed at the time of the death of the body, if the parts of the soul (mind, will, emotions, and desires) have not all been consumed in Him and "realigned" with His, it stays trapped in it's own stony heart (which appears cave-like) with what it did not overcome thru the Spirit while still in the body.
This is why people that say they died and had NDE's that say they went to what they perceived as "hell" also say they DESCENDED, ie. "whose god is their belly" (belly means innermost being). The soul descends, the spirit ASCENDS back to the One who gave it.
This is why the rivers of living water are to come out of our innermost being, our bellies, to cleanse the soul and bring redemption, just as the river that flowed out of the temple carried away the blood of the sacrifices. This "blood" is what the soul has not overcome while still in the body thru the Spirit of Christ.
Guard your HEARTS with all diligence for out of it comes the issues of life. The woman with the ISSUE OF BLOOD, is the soul/heart that still has to be redeemed.
This separation of soul and spirit instead of being one in Him, is a false "balance", which God says He hates, because the WEIGHT of sin that so easily besets us, has weighed down the soul. They are meant to both be redeemed in Him and brought into union IN Him, with Him being in the midst, just as He was in the midst of Moses and Elijah, and just as He was in the midst of the 2 cherubim in the cloud of glory, over the Ark of the Covenant in type.
This pattern of separation was also shown when the fiery furnace walked between the 2 PIECES (the "beginning" and the "end") of the animal, and when Jesus walked in the firmament (heaven) which is in the MIDST of the waters, by walking ABOVE the waters below the firmament, when He walked on the water.
This is also born witness by, there is one mediator ("middle man") between God and man, ie. the pieces, unredeemed spirit and soul separated from God in the outer court, but there ever lives an Intercessor between them "in" the inner court. Not coincidentally, WE are called to be intercessors, and there is an unimaginable depth to that statement. Whatsover sins YE remit, they are remitted, whatsoever sins YE retain, they are retained.
Death of the body does not change this fact, because there is no redemption of the soul or body by virtue of death itself. He is perceiving from the realm of Spirit, and so they/we were already "dead" by His definition, IF they were still in that outer court experience realm at the moment of death. Which is why Jesus said, let the DEAD, bury the dead. He IS the resurrection and the life.
He took Eve/soul out of Adam to show him what was in his stony (ribs/calcium, covering for the heart) heart. He took the Israelites out into the wilderness to show them what was in their hearts.
We were created in *their* image, male/spirit and female/soul, created He THEM. The soul is like a womb, it reproduces whatever seed you plant in it. It is literally, the "womb-man". These seeds/tares that keep the soul in bondage were planted by the enemy of our souls, while we slept. Adam (He called THEIR name Adam) was asleep, but God never woke him up until Christ.
This is why Christ in you, is the hope of glory/entering into the Holy of Holies in type. As I said, Christ is shown in the middle of the pattern as the Candlestick in the midst of the inner court.
But the good news is that just as the Tabernacle shows the separation between spirit and soul, and between spirit and soul and HIM, David's tabernacle shows the end result of union of outer court and Holy of Holies, ie. there was no inner court, both were swallowed up of life/Holy of Holies.
AND: God did not create their "hell", ie. soul in bondage to tares/darkness, they did. By our OWN WICKEDNESS we are reproved, we eat (to consume/be one with the BELLY/heart) of the fruit of our own lips. It is NOT permanent, as the patterns above show, and as the Jews knew who believed in a type of purgatory such as this, and to this day pray for one year for the deceased.
PART 2.....He made us in *their* image, male and female. He is a creative being. We are capable of creating, not just in the physical realm, but in the realm of spirit, and not just in HIS Spirit by cooperation with His Spirit.
What the people with NDE's are seeing, is the "glory" their souls created, relative to the depth of their relationship with Him, or lack thereof, when they passed over. As I said earlier, we eat of the fruit of our own lips, and He reproves us with our own wickedness.
I read an account of a woman who died and went to the heaven experience and saw Jesus or a light being she knew was Jesus, can't remember which. Anyway, she talked about how beautiful it was, and she discovered all she had to do was TAKE A THOUGHT of it, and beautiful flowers sprung up before her as she walked thru this bright meadow scene.
Christ, Paul told the Ephesians, is FORMED IN US. By taking thoughts (which are His breath), that originate from the throne that reveal some aspect of HIS glory/nature, He begins to take "shape" in us. This is why it says we cannot BY TAKING THOUGHT (ours) add one cubit to our stature (Christ in us) and why Christ in us, is the HOPE OF GLORY. The Word states there are different glories, some terrestrial, some celestial.
The thoughts that originate from the throne that are His breath, it's no different than when the Spirit hovered over the face of the waters (waters below the firmament, which is EVERYTHING under heaven), and the earth was void and without form.
Man shall not live or have the life of the Spirit by bread alone (letter only), but by every (Spirit-breathed) Word that comes from the mouth of the Father. His speaking is basically doing to our "earth" what He did in Genesis, and just like Adam, we are co-creators.
When Adam named the beasts, because He was set over the creation to have dominion as a king, and to have a priest function, those names/natures he spoke out of his HEART (his "Eve", the stony heart), came to pass.
The native Americans, who He told me had reached out and were "found" of the Great Spirit but only didn't know His name, were taught some truth (as ALL are, but they see thru a glass/darkened soul without the light of Christ within) regarding the NATURES of the beastly kingdom.
This is why He took the animals (carnal beastly natures) into Noah's ark. The ark represents Christ and the natures those things formed out of the heart/soul of us that need to be cleansed. He could have just created new ones after the flood, but the message would not have been there that He wanted to communicate. It required Noah's cooperation and obedience to take the "natures/names" into the Ark representing the covering of Christ.
It's also the same reason why He told them to put the tablets of the law (stony heart) into the Ark of the Covenant. The message is, the woman/soul MUST have a covering. What happened when "she" was uncovered, when the wrong people opened the Ark of the Covenant? Death ensued.
The same principle is why the rod of Moses ate the rod of the Egyptians: covering. The authority of God ALWAYS seeks to cover the woman/soul with Himself in mercy. Jesus showed this same principle with the woman they were going to stone to death.
The woman/soul being uncovered, produces GIANTS, which is what happened when the Nephalim spirits joined themselves to women. This is the same as the tares that were planted while we "slept". It's the same as the woman/soul that "sleeps", that has not awakened IN Christ, not awakened in the glory of HIS making, but of "her" own creation, ie. her "purgatory". Also, compare this with the GIANTS that were in the land of Canaan.
A giant is that which is above the measure of the stature of Christ, ie. excess flesh and bone/law/letter, adding to the ETERNAL WORD which is the risen Christ, and which addition carries a curse. The curse is to have the plagues of the Egyptians added to you (tares/darkness).
The book of life, IS CHRIST, and what He writes of it IN OUR HEARTS/WOMAN as His breath coming to us, transforming our souls INTO A HEART OF FLESH (celestial flesh = glorified Christ), producing the RIGHT GLORY, for the covering of our "woman".
So Christ IS the glory of the Father, that we are to PUT ON, as a covering for our soul/woman. This is how He is restoring His creation. "She" will no longer "wear" the shame of "her" transgression in this purgatory false glory, but "she" will be raised up and clothed with Christ. Praise You Father!
Canaan is as the glory, the promised "land". There are giants we created there, but no matter, for they are bread for us (we consume them/cover them with Christ).
A little aside here; the man was put to death for working on the sabbath by being stoned with stones at God's command. The same principle exists here. The stony hearts from which thoughts come that are not His thoughts, are the stones that stone us to DEATH, and not life.
Our taking thought, is as WORKS, HIS thoughts, lead us into His rest/sabbath, which is the same as the state/glory Adam had before the fall. This is why He prayed about the glory being restored, to change our "heaven/glory" from terrestrial in origin, to celestial, ie. the mind of Christ.
It is increasing the false covering of the "stony heart Eve/soulish realm" who usurps the authority of her husband in disobedience. The "stones" that HE desires we "stone" people with, are the scriptures/stones that have been "struck/opened" by Him, to REVEAL the LIVING WATER of the life of the Spirit, which is the risen Christ. The kingdom of God cometh with violence, and the violent take it by force.
This principle is why He/Christ will go to cover the "naked woman/soul" who is without covering, in a purgatory of "her" own making. Our own righteousness is as filthy rags. Righteousness is not only a character but a covering, and He comes and is forever coming, to cover our nakedness with Himself.
The scene in the tomb foretells this. The napkin they placed over His face, was neatly folded, AFTER He arose. This was a custom of the day, that when the master of the house left the table, but intended to come back, he would fold the napkin neatly so the servants would know He was returning. If it was just thrown down, they knew He was done. Well, HALLELUYAH, the Master returned and ever returns to cover us (face speaks of nature) with Himself.
PART 3.....
This principle of Him changing "her" glory, is also born witness of Him saying to Herod that fox, that today (1000 years) and tomorrow (1000 years) I will do cures and cast out devils, which He has been doing if we are pressing in to Him.
This doing cures (healing same as making WHOLE, the Spirit coming into union with the soul) and casting out devils is part of the plan to change our "glory" that the soul inhabits.
The devils that are cast out, are cast out of our soul, thus changing our glory by changing our perception of HIS glory, thru the mind of Christ. This is why it says we are changed from glory (terrestrial/carnal mind) to glory (celestial/mind of Christ).
They are the creation of the giants in our "land", the abode of the soul, the "glory" it has attained to at present, whether in the body or out of it, it matters not, it is in a glory of some sort.
But He said the 3rd day He would be perfected. We know He was already perfect, but He had no where to lay His head. The authority rests upon the shoulders = mind of Christ, and as it was "fleshed out" in the long post above, the mind of Christ is the glory of His covering. He has been preparing souls to receive their true Head; praise God, He is coming IN GLORY.
This is why Christ in us, is the hope of glory, and why Paul said that what was within us, was going to swallow up the corruption, and it begins with the spirit, then the soul, and finally the body. Halleluyah!
Check it out.....
Psalms 106:20 KJV
Thus they changed their glory into the similitude of an ox that eateth grass.
Romans 1:23 KJV
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
2 Corinthians 3:18 KJV
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
The sea of glass, then is when HIS glory has covered the woman/soul, calm because of the peace that ensues when the carnal beastly natures/flesh of the soul are no longer warring against the Spirit. This is when the lion (carnal beastly natures) lays down with the Lamb!
I'm also seeing these scriptures differently, in light of the BREAD that came from heaven (Christ) and the STONES (things adding to our carnal beastly natures/stony hearts/souls), that need to be changed from their glory to His glory. My Father can RAISE UP up STONES to praise Him. Check these out now....
Matthew 4:6 KJV
And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written , He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Matthew 7:9 KJV
Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread (bread from heaven/Christ speaking from heaven/glory), will he give him a stone?
Revelation 2:17 KJV
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the HIDDEN MANNA (His breath/thoughts that brings understanding and revelation of Christ the glory of the Father), and will give him a WHITE STONE, (the soul/stony heart/tablets of law with the darkness/death removed out it, ie. that which ministers death to the hearer), AND IN THE STONE A NEW NAME WRITTEN (the name/nature/glory of Christ that covers) which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
It's a name/nature that no one KNOWS except he that receiveth it, but this KNOWING is in the concept of Adam KNEW (BECAME ONE WITH HER) his wife (soul) and she conceived. This is how we are BIRTHING the Son, who is BOTH male/Spirit and female/redeemed soul. And the glory of the latter house shall be greater, BECAUSE He is not leaving one STONE standing unturned (unchanged/uncovered). Halleluyah to the Lamb!
Blessings.....
Very interesting.. Time will tell if you are right.. I know Truth and literal contains much metaphor and parable. ..Funny I just came across some very old things I wrote.. Some of it was astrolgy, I used to be an astrologer..trying to get awareness of the 3 faces of the heavenly 'clock' which has ten hands, all moving at different speeds.. no i never accomplished that! These days I'd be happy to keep track of the Hebrew months, which means knowing exactly where the moon is at/what phase. Outside our front porch..at least from the door, I can have a clear view of the beginning of the month.. the first small sliver of the new moon. But I usually manage to miss it. (Note to self, pay attention! Lol) Of course all I have to do is take note of the calendar, the new moon and a couple (?) evenings later.. if it's not cloudy.. I thought of astrolgy like a dance.. A celestial dance. And tho astrology, the science, astronomy of, not the foretelling, etc. helped me find God.. How gracious He is! Found Him in the mountains.. had been studying a little on the world religions, astrology and meditation, which to me was the quieting the mind so peacefully Quiet - well I know now, He is the quiet! But He used my meditation symbol, an 8 rayed star. Found out later it's the one pictured with the Christmas three wise men. ("Kings will honor Him." Not fully fulfilled yet.. not by a long shot.. :gsmile: )
I was sitting in the Rocky Mountains, the sky was very blue, when a thought hit me in the head! Yep.. came quickly drifting right across that blue sky and hit me in the head! And this is what it said - sorry I just had to rhyme that when it came to mind, lol - It said, you've been studing about forces at work in the universe.. what about the force that created the universe? And what if that force has consciousness?
And I though "God!" And it was like a light turning on.. And there He was.. the One I'd been searching for. (One day I had climbed up to a high rock, sat there waiting for God, and got a sunburn. :laughing7: Those were happy days of camping every weekend.
There He was.. a sort of Presence (mild) it felt like I had always known! But been oblivious of. There was no hint.. no 'wrathful god'. And to this day I know that is not Him. I didn't find out about Jesus until a few weeks later.. When in the mountains.. God was there, in the beauty of His beautiful creation. :cloud9: But as we left the mountains, there would go also His (mild) presence.. Until! I came across a Bible tract, and yes on the back was the sinner's prayer.. So I followed the formula four times, and then would ask "is this for real? Afterall I had not been any sort of saint you know.
Well after the fourth time of asking I walked into the livingroom and the sun was streaming through an inch gap of the curtains, from the sun's setting over the mountains in the distance to the west of us. And streamed across the room and filled the off television screen with a radiant eight rayed star! I of course was convinced.. and soon began eating daily from that awesome (magical?) loaf, our New Testament (and all the bible over the years). [An off television screen is a good television screen! haha.. but just the other day I looked up at a color episode of "Wagon Train" just in time to see an eight rayed star, sky scene, and the star filled the screen at just that moment. I had not been watching the t.v... The Lord is SO gracious.. as we follow along after Him, He leaves bread crumbs behind Him so we can know we are going the right way and should keep on.. (We just have to watch out for the strange bread thrown in our path? Things like 'hell', and, imo, any sort of afterlife incarceration, or 'punishment' except consequences/results and inner torments on 'day' of atonement (ours during this life.. others during 'day' of judgment.. 2 Peter 2:9 - But as we know, punishment should read "CORRECTION on day of judgment").
Well here I've gone on and on.. got totally side tracked! :doh: Your post inspired it..
Quote from: Cardinal on June 26, 2019, 08:41:50 PM
Quote from: jugghead on May 28, 2019, 01:44:29 AM
Something has been gnawing on my brain for awhile, why do we believe we have a soul?
In Genesis, when God breathed into the nostrils of Adam, he became a living soul (2:7)?
So I ask, why do we think we "have" a soul rather than believing we "are" a soul?
Thoughts?
I found this to be very interesting.. https://biblehub.com/hebrew/5315.htm
I believe you are on to something also and loved how you broke it down and explained your thoughts Cardinal
and Marie
I believe Jesus said , they missed something when the resurrection happens
it is they are like the angels , not male or female , but new creatures in Christ , that become the special anointing of fulfilling Gods end desire
Matt 22 29Jesus answered, "You are mistaken because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God.
30In the resurrection, people will neither marry nor be given in marriage.
Instead, they will be like the angels in heaven.
31But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what God said to you: 32'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?' He is not the God of the dead, but of the living."
Jesus explains this beautifully in John 11
I Am the Resurrection and the Life
17 So when Jesus came, He found that he had already been in the tomb four days. 18 Now Bethany was near Jerusalem, about two miles away. 19 And many of the Jews had joined the women around Martha and Mary, to comfort them concerning their brother.
20 Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met Him, but Mary was sitting in the house. 21 Now Martha said to Jesus, "Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. 22 But even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You."
23 Jesus said to her, "Your brother will rise again."
24 Martha said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day."
25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?"
27 She said to Him, "Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world."
Jesus and Death, the Last Enemy
28 And when she had said these things, she went her way and secretly called Mary her sister, saying, "The Teacher has come and is calling for you." 29 As soon as she heard that, she arose quickly and came to Him. 30 Now Jesus had not yet come into the town, but was in the place where Martha met Him. 31 Then the Jews who were with her in the house, and comforting her, when they saw that Mary rose up quickly and went out, followed her, saying, "She is going to the tomb to weep there."
32 Then, when Mary came where Jesus was, and saw Him, she fell down at His feet, saying to Him, "Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died."
33 Therefore, when Jesus saw her weeping, and the Jews who came with her weeping, He groaned in the spirit and was troubled. 34 And He said, "Where have you laid him?"
They said to Him, "Lord, come and see."
35 Jesus wept. 36 Then the Jews said, "See how He loved him!"
37 And some of them said, "Could not this Man, who opened the eyes of the blind, also have kept this man from dying?"
Lazarus Raised from the Dead
38 Then Jesus, again groaning in Himself, came to the tomb. It was a cave, and a stone lay against it. 39 Jesus said, "Take away the stone."
Martha, the sister of him who was dead, said to Him, "Lord, by this time there is a stench, for he has been dead four days."
40 Jesus said to her, "Did I not say to you that if you would believe you would see the glory of God?"
41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead man was lying. And Jesus lifted up His eyes and said, "Father, I thank You that You have heard Me.
42 And I know that You always hear Me, but because of the people who are standing by I said this, that they may believe that You sent Me."
43 Now when He had said these things, He cried with a loud voice, "Lazarus, come forth!" 44 And he who had died came out bound hand and foot with graveclothes, and his face was wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them, "Loose him, and let him go."
I see the power of death can no longer hold anyone when THE TRUTH IN CHRIST SPEAKS and sets them FREE ..
Gal 3 28 27For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
and Christ is Gods 1 Cor 15 The Order of Resurrection
...27For "God has put everything under His feet."
Now when it says that everything has been put under Him, this clearly does not include the One who put everything under Him.
28And when all things have been subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will be made subject to Him who put all things under Him,
so that God may be all in all.
29If these things are not so, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?...
new creatures in Christ
just as the angels , as messengers of God though the anointing of the HOLY SPIRIT AS RECONCILING EVERYTHING TO GOD that is doing the very purpose of GODS DESIRE and this is the unforgivable sin to me is to not blaspheme against the HOLY SPIRIT OF LIFE ......
Ambassadors for Christ
...16So from now on we regard no one according to the flesh. Although we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come! 18All this is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:...
TO ME as I can tell it is the resurrection life ..........being made new in Christ as a new creation that is no longer in an image of God but is the real thing ! :2c:
"Do not call to mind the former things; pay no attention to things of old.
Isaiah 43:19
Behold, I am about to do something new; even now it is coming. Do you not see it? Indeed, I will make a way in the wilderness and streams in the desert.
Isaiah 65:17
For behold, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.
Ezekiel 36:26
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.
I believe this is the same and ONE HOLY SPIRIT OF LIFE , that leads to all truth and life and says there is no need that anyone teach you , but it is the same mininersting messengers reconciling the world in CHRIST , though flesh and blood cannot see this at all ..." Hebrews 1:7, NASB: "And of the angels He says, 'WHO MAKES HIS ANGELS WINDS, AND HIS MINISTERS A FLAME OF FIRE. [ see them as some wind that blows the coals and also lakes of fire myself ] not an ocean or sea , but lakes [personal and enduring ] by the same baptism of Holy Spirit & fire , to purify and cleanse though the same suffering as children/creatures in Christ by Light and fire purium being corrected and disciplined as received of Him ...
John 3:3
Jesus replied, "Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."[born of the wind /spirit HEARING HIS VOICE and LIVE ]
Romans 6:4
We therefore were buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may walk in newness of life.
I just wanted to explain a bit on that , in my own faith ....
From the beginning God made them male and female. The glorified sisters are called the daughters of God/virgins.
Paul was speaking of God not being a respector of persons/nations/gender etc in His salvation plan.
Let no man put asunder what God has joined togather. all enter the ARK two by two.
The Wedding Feast of the Lamb is the reunion of what was separated. God and Jerusalem Above[yourmother] are ONE SPIRIT like
a man is one flesh with his wife. God's word is written in our heart[woman] and mind[male]
the world at this very minute is expierencing much gender confusion reflecting the churches confusion in this manner. :2c:
:2c:I AM not ashamed of being a woman in Love[spirit] made in the image of Jerusalem ABOVE..SOS ch 4.
El Shaddai's image..many breasted one..that nurtures children with breasts...and protects[destroys]the enmitious seed.
I do not wear a man's garment...be He covers me with a corner of HIS.[Ruth]
I love how the story of God's administration of the ages is a beautiful and simple one which speaks to all.. And is easily communicated.. if not easily heard, due to the shadows of the myth called hell and afterlife incarceration or torments .. And myths of eternal life without Jesus.. But.. these will fall away, and that will be wonderful and amazing! Because truth and He, are both wonderful and amazing!
Bless you sisters! :girlheart:
Quote from: sheila on June 27, 2019, 08:38:35 PM
From the beginning God made them male and female. The glorified sisters are called the daughters of God/virgins.
Paul was speaking of God not being a respector of persons/nations/gender etc in His salvation plan.
Let no man put asunder what God has joined togather. all enter the ARK two by two.
The Wedding Feast of the Lamb is the reunion of what was separated. God and Jerusalem Above[yourmother] are ONE SPIRIT like
a man is one flesh with his wife. God's word is written in our heart[woman] and mind[male]
the world at this very minute is expierencing much gender confusion reflecting the churches confusion in this manner. :2c:
Just a side note......He told me the root of respect of persons is preferring the flesh over the Spirit, and it goes all the way back into the garden, because she wanted what she could see and feel and feed her natural inclinations. Sometimes what looks like something fleshly is actually His Spirit, and vice versa, sometimes what looks like it should be His Spirit is actually flesh. He is forever testing us to see if we will follow Him, even into things others swear could not be His Spirit leading you into. Story of my life.... :icon_jokercolor:
rev 19 10.
I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." Paul desired that everyone had this gift , but it was at Gods discretion , not our own , I hate being evil and do not like the power it has over me at all!!!! , but find myself failing certain test of faith at times and it is just as said ,,,,,,, so overcome ......bound and tied up in it and a mess really .
Jesus Christ is the name given for salvation among mankind under heaven , but in heaven it is with His new name , that no earthly soul knows .
no one can have the ''Spirit of prophecy'' as the ones that were given this from the foundation of the world in my own thoughts believe it to be so . by the scriptures , as God knows and no man knows but the ones that receive it .by hearing what the Spirit is saying to them and teaching them the truth in that time and place and matter by Jesus Christ testimony /witness .
and what does the name Jesus / Joshua mean exactly ? for me it is Most dictionaries will translate Jesus' name (which was apparently more properly translated to Joshua than "Jesus") to be "God is salvation." "God is salvation" is a phrase that ascribes a passive quality to God. ... Yah is short for Yahweh, and shuah is from yeshuah which means "to save, save alive, rescue."
we are all searching for the clues here , right ? but Christ is a title , not a name but The word Christ was a title or office ("the Christ"), not a given name. It derives from the Greek Χριστός (Christos), a translation of the Hebrew mashiakh (משיח) meaning "anointed" one , and is usually transliterated into English as "Messiah".
This is why so many false christs or fake anointings become so confusing , it is the BABYLON spirit of mixing flesh and spirit and truth with lies , very corrupt
what is pure is pure and what becomes corrupted is evil is present .....
and Jesus Christ said if it were possible even the very chosen ones picked for a certain age and place and time and purpose were going to do just that declare TRUTH . or be chosen to be the false christs , Yes, I believe some were chosen for this very purpose to be deceived and to deceive for a time , but not forever Thanks be to God Jer 17 ;9
Romans 1:21
For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking and darkened in their foolish hearts.
Romans 7:11
thFor sin, seizing its opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through the commandment put me to death.
Gods word or Sword of truth puts to death that which is evil and must be cut down ..
Ephesians 4:22
to put off your former way of life, your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires;
but if it were possible even the very elect of God would be deceived Matt24
23At that time, if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There He is,' do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible. 25See, I have told you in advance.
Because JESUS warns us of this by the Spirit of prophecy by having the mind of Christ in authority over you ... as headship .... foretelling prophecy of what is to come upon us all .
a discourse emanating from divine inspiration and declaring the purposes of God, whether by reproving and admonishing the wicked, or comforting the afflicted, or revealing things hidden; esp. by foretelling future events
Used in the NT of the utterance of OT prophets
of the prediction of events relating to Christ's kingdom and its speedy triumph, together with the consolations and admonitions pertaining to it, the spirit of prophecy, the divine mind, to which the prophetic faculty is due
of the endowment and speech of the Christian teachers called prophets
the gifts and utterances of these prophets, esp. of the predictions of the works of which, set apart to teach the gospel, will accomplish for the kingdom of Christ
The Return of the Son of Man
(Mark 13:24-27; Luke 21:25-28)
26So if they tell you, 'There He is in the wilderness,' do not go out; or, 'Here He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. 27For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days:
'The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.'
30At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.
31And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
This is why I believe as I do , because the age of mankind is shortened to 70 years [ captivity ] of being flesh and blood more or less , but as the scriptures declare it is so and this is the confusion the Bible speaks of in my own opinion , because this is when God would gather us up one by one as His own into Himself , there are some other scriptures
but an example
here is one
John 11:52
and not for the nation only, but in order that He might also gather together into one the children of God who are scattered abroad.
Being gathered into Jesus Christ as Him being our Life and can never die , but LIVES in us and we are to keep this hope alive into the glory of the Father .
How many times I would have gathered you Matt 23 Lament over Jerusalem
36Truly I tell you, all these things will come upon this generation. 37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling! 38Look, your house is left to you desolate....
Berean Study Bible · Download
Cross References
Ruth 2:12
May the LORD repay your work, and may you receive a rich reward from the LORD, the God of Israel, under whose wings you have taken refuge."
Isaiah 5:4
What more could have been done for My vineyard that I did not already do in it? Why, when I waited for it to yield good grapes, did it bring forth sour fruit?
Jeremiah 32:31
For this city has aroused My wrath and fury from the day it was built until now. Therefore I will remove it from My presence
Jeremiah 36:26
Instead, the king commanded Jerahmeel, a son of the king, as well as Seraiah son of Azriel and Shelemiah son of Abdeel, to seize Baruch the scribe and Jeremiah the prophet. But the LORD had hidden them.
Hosea 7:13
Woe to them, for they have strayed from Me! Destruction to them, for they have rebelled against Me! Though I would redeem them, they speak lies against Me.
Matthew 5:12
Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven; for in the same way they persecuted the prophets before you.
Matthew 23:31
So you testify against yourselves that you are the sons of those who murdered the prophets.
Luke 13:34
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her! How often I have longed to gather your children together as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling.
Luke 13:35
Look, your house is left to you desolate. And I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.'"
Acts 7:52
Which of the prophets did your fathers fail to persecute? They even killed those who foretold the coming of the Righteous One. And now you are His betrayers and murderers--
we water the seed/ WORD OF GOD and sow the seed in the hearts of mankind , it is God whom causes Spiritual growth , though the HOLY SPIRIT OF TRUTH RECONCILING THE WORLD BACK INTO HIMSELF to me .
I finally realized not too long ago, that I always think in the collective.. when I study, etc. My standing with God is not my 'goodness', it is Jesus'. My faith in Him declares me righteous, and I assume - innocent. The verdict is innocent. So I don't worry about it. The person I was before knowing Jesus (and God our Father) I no longer know. I am not perfect. Not at all.. but I don't want to do those things that lead to death.. I do struggle for instance, with impatience under my breath.. cussing, even, in my head.. Or thoughts other than holy thoughts.. that will pop into my head.. like noticing someone's weight or something.. but I apologize to the Lord.. and pretty much forget about it, because John wrote if we repent of it God is faithful to help us - to cleanse us of all unrighteousness, and ultimately imperfection. But He sees us I believe as who HE created us to be. So, even though I will often call myself a dweeb, sometimes in humor, sometimes in all seriousness.. I forget about it just as quickly as the wayward thought or word came drifting in.. or up? It feels like drifts in, but my being imperfect, it finds a brief roosting spot, hopefully only for a second! Repent, call myself a dweeb and go on. (Now you know the real me, lol :laughing7: ) This impersonal attitude frees me to study and consider God's Word as a collective, all of us, story and "administration of the ages". Not so much personal, as I'm not worried about all that anymore. Been there, did it. Seems futile. I just seek to stay submitted.. and to pursue His Spirit (the wine) and the loaf/the bread, the Logos - "reasoning expressed in words" - His logos, His reasoning.. What other reasoning do we want? Or need.
Collective, not personal. I'm wondering if this might be why most folks can't understand what some of us are talking about, they're still working on and focused on the personal application.. which it seems to me is what many churches and teachings do, keep us focused, thus struggling still, with the personal. :dontknow: But I have realized my focus when it comes to God's Word and study, is "collective". A collective story and journey, and this is where I'm coming from (as the saying goes). And is why the literal interests me much more than the inner metaphor, and collective prophecy and fulfillment over the inner workings, though of course that too is glorious! "The Spirit at work in us, is the same Spirit which rose Jesus from the dead" (nekros) Romans 8:11.
:friendstu:
Quote from: marie glen on July 01, 2019, 03:25:31 AM
I finally realized not too long ago, that I always think in the collective.. when I study, etc. My standing with God is not my 'goodness', it is Jesus'. My faith in Him declares me righteous, and I assume - innocent. The verdict is innocent. So I don't worry about it. The person I was before knowing Jesus (and God our Father) I no longer know. I am not perfect. Not at all.. but I don't want to do those things that lead to death.. I do struggle for instance, with impatience under my breath.. cussing, even, in my head.. Or thoughts other than holy thoughts.. that will pop into my head.. like noticing someone's weight or something.. but I apologize to the Lord.. and pretty much forget about it, because John wrote if we repent of it God is faithful to help us - to cleanse us of all unrighteousness, and ultimately imperfection. But He sees us I believe as who HE created us to be. So, even though I will often call myself a dweeb, sometimes in humor, sometimes in all seriousness.. I forget about it just as quickly as the wayward thought or word came drifting in.. or up? It feels like drifts in, but my being imperfect, it finds a brief roosting spot, hopefully only for a second! Repent, call myself a dweeb and go on. (Now you know the real me, lol :laughing7: ) This impersonal attitude frees me to study and consider God's Word as a collective, all of us, story and "administration of the ages". Not so much personal, as I'm not worried about all that anymore. Been there, did it. Seems futile. I just seek to stay submitted.. and to pursue His Spirit (the wine) and the loaf/the bread, the Logos - "reasoning expressed in words" - His logos, His reasoning.. What other reasoning do we want? Or need.
Collective, not personal. I'm wondering if this might be why most folks can't understand what some of us are talking about, they're still working on and focused on the personal application.. which it seems to me is what many churches and teachings do, keep us focused, thus struggling still, with the personal. :dontknow: But I have realized my focus when it comes to God's Word and study, is "collective". A collective story and journey, and this is where I'm coming from (as the saying goes). And is why the literal interests me much more than the inner metaphor, and collective prophecy and fulfillment over the inner workings, though of course that too is glorious! "The Spirit at work in us, is the same Spirit which rose Jesus from the dead" (nekros) Romans 8:11.
:friendstu:
I refer to it as the "macrocosm" view of things. The "microcosm" view is the one applying things to us personally. It takes Him to show you the big picture, for sure. Blessings...
I was watching a sermon by Peter Heitt and there was one thing he said that really stood out,
"it hurts God when we doubt His love for us"
in which, all I could see was the cross, what men did to the embodiment of Love, but His grace abounds much more in the words "forgive them Father, for they know not what they do"
"doubt", a seed planted by the enemy of which He will destroy, for the works of the devil shall be destroyed, all doubt shall be destroyed and we shall see Him face to face and we shall know the truth and the truth shall set us free
To be free from doubt is to believe the resurrected Word, that Word being Love, the embodiment of the Father. :myahoo:
:dsunny: amen bro!!! :banana: :HeartThrob:
Quote from: jugghead on July 16, 2019, 05:38:34 PM
I was watching a sermon by Peter Heitt and there was one thing he said that really stood out,
"it hurts God when we doubt His love for us"
in which, all I could see was the cross, what men did to the embodiment of Love, but His grace abounds much more in the words "forgive them Father, for they know not what they do"
"doubt", a seed planted by the enemy of which He will destroy, for the works of the devil shall be destroyed, all doubt shall be destroyed and we shall see Him face to face and we shall know the truth and the truth shall set us free
To be free from doubt is to believe the resurrected Word, that Word being Love, the embodiment of the Father. :myahoo:
Quote from: rosered on July 16, 2019, 05:49:39 PM
:dsunny: amen bro!!! :banana: :HeartThrob:
Amen.. Well said Rose! :iagree: totally! :gsmile: :cloud9:
As long as the mind can deceive the heart, the heart remains an empty tomb, but when the stone is rolled away, Peace will rise from the dead and walk out giving new life.
Quote from: jugghead on July 21, 2019, 02:18:43 PM
As long as the mind can deceive the heart, the heart remains an empty tomb, but when the stone is rolled away, Peace will rise from the dead and walk out giving new life.
Beautifully said bro J !!! Amen ! :dsunny: :HeartThrob: Let go and let God do His perfect work !!
This is more than a tidbit, something from the past two weeks.
Ability to Judge
We all have the ability to judge, but how many of us actually sit down and think about what we use this ability for? In its simplest form, we use it to judge what we like and what we dislike. It comes down to the simplest principle: if we like something, we make a judgment for it, but if we do not like something, we make a judgment against it. This principle applies to everything we know, from choosing what we may consider unimportant, like the food we eat, to what we may consider the most important, choosing what we believe. And do we even realize, or even consider, that, just like food, knowledge is something that we consume?
People, through what they hear and read by what others speak and write about, have been given the knowledge of good and evil, the knowledge of right and wrong, the knowledge of what is just and what is unjust, the knowledge of what is righteous and what is unrighteous, and that all our decisions, which is the same as saying, all our judgments; our verdicts, our choices, are always based upon what we like or what we dislike. So, do you consider this to be a truth in your life? A truth in what you believe?
With any knowledge that we have, it always comes down to this simple principle; do we "like" what we hear or read or do we "not like" what we hear or read? And do we fully understand the concept that "we are a judge"? A judge of everything in our lives? Again, a judge who decides from what we "will" eat or what we "will not" eat, to what we "will" believe or what we "will not" believe?
If two different foods are placed in front of you, you have a choice between the two foods. But again, your decision of which food to choose comes down to if you like it or if you dislike it. And if you like both, it will come down to which food you like more, and even to the point of, if you want to eat both, which one are you going to eat first? Going even further to the point of; which one are you going to take your first bite from? Or the decision to even taking a little bit of both in your first bite?
My point is, we all know we are faced with choices every single moment of our lives, and again, every decision we make is based on whether we like it or dislike it. But, is liking and disliking something, the only basis upon which we make our choices? No, it is not.
Have we sat down and thought about the thought process itself? What I mean by this is: do we sit down and actually think about everything that goes into the process of making a choice, the process of making a decision? Because, if you stop and think about it, it is not just the fact that we like or dislike something, it is also based upon whether we will gain something by that decision or if we will lose something by that decision. So, with this said, do we also understand that if we would gain from a decision, we would like it, and if we would lose from a decision, we would dislike it? And do we also understand that if we would gain something we do not like, we would probably make a decision against it? And that if we would lose something that we do not like, we would probably make a decision for it? So, again, it comes down to the principle of liking or disliking.
There are only two ways to interpret the Bible, either "some" will be saved or "all" will be saved. The reason I say this is because there are verses that are translated that tend to point to the salvation of only "some" will be saved and there are verses that are translated that tend to point to "all" will be saved. So, in order for the whole Bible to be correct, all verses have to line up with the idea that only "some" will be saved or all the verses have to line up with the idea that "all" will be saved. Would you agree with this? If so, let me ask this question, which idea do you like? Do you like the idea that only "some" will be saved over the idea that "all" will be saved? Or do you like the idea that "all" will be saved over the idea that only "some" will be saved?
I stated earlier that "we are all judges", that we judge everything we hear and read, and that our own judgments are based on what we like and what we dislike. And do we fully realize that "what we believe" is also based upon what we "like" and what we "dislike"? So, with this being said, which do you like better and why do you like one better than the other? Isn't that why you believe it? Have you actually sat down and thought about the fact that another judgment you have made can change your mind about what you like or dislike?
For example; we may like the idea that "all" will be saved compared to the idea that only "some" will be saved, or we may "dislike" all will be saved compared to only some will be saved. So, when we compare the two ideas, what would determine your decision to like one idea "over" the other? In the Bible, we know that God had a covenant of law and He also had the covenant of grace. So, have we compared these two covenants side by side and made a decision of which one we "like" and which one we "dislike"? What I mean by this is: do we "like" the covenant of the law more because we fully believe the guilty should be punished? Or do you "like" the covenant of grace more because we fully believe the guilty will be forgiven, just like we were?
Now we know that when charges are brought against a person, the charges are always an accusation that the person broke the law, then according to the evidence presented, they are either found guilty or they are found innocent. Here are two pieces of evidence that I would like to present at this time.
"As it is written, there are none righteous, no, not one" (Romans 3:10), taken from Psalm 14:3 and Psalm 53:3
AND
"
For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23)
Is this not evidence that "all" have sinned, that "all" are found guilty of breaking the law?
Therefore, let me ask this question, is the judge a righteous judge if he lets "some" off for breaking the law and condemns others if "all" are guilty? Is that justice? Is that "just"? The problem with the justice system in this world is that men have divided the law and have convinced themselves that the breaking of one law is not as bad as the breaking of another law. Now this may be true with the laws of men, but is this true with the law of God?
Is it not written:
"for whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all" (James 2:10).
If James understood that if we break one law of God, we have broken them all, shouldn't we understand it in this way also? And if "all" have offended in one point, "all" are guilty of "all", should that not mean that everyone has broken the whole (every) law according to Scripture? And if everyone is guilty of breaking every law of God, is it "just" to not condemn some while condemning others if everyone is guilty of breaking every law of God? Is that perfect justice? Is that fair? How can we look at the sin of another, knowing that by sinning they have broken every law of God and not look at ourselves and know that we have sinned, thereby also breaking every law of God, and then believe that we will not be condemned by God but another will be?
If God's law is to be carried out to the letter, not one person should be saved from condemnation, in other words, not one person should be saved from death, yet we believe there are. How can we, as Christians, believe that "some" will be saved from death while others are not if everyone is guilty of the same thing; if everyone is guilty of breaking every law of God by just breaking one?
God subjected "all" of mankind to sin and made it impossible for any; "all" of mankind to obey the law perfectly, showing us that "all" have sinned and come short of the glory of God. Paul also writes,
"For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all" (Romans 11:32 KJV). The NASB translates it as;
"For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all". How is it possible for God to show mercy to "some: and not "all" if we have "all" disobeyed God? Is that perfect justice? How is it possible for God to show mercy to "some" and not "all" if "all" have not believed God? Believed what? That it is possible to show mercy to all by forgiving "all" of "all" sin?
Is it not spoken by Jesus and written;
"and forgive us our sins, for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us" (Luke 11:4 KJV), have we sinned by not forgiving others of their debt (sin) against us? And then, have we twisted this law and say to ourselves "I do not have to forgive a person that did not sin against me"? But if we are to be like God, and He forgives even one person of their debt, is it "just" to forgive one and not another if "all" have sinned in the same way? Is that perfect justice?
People say, you have to ask for forgiveness in order to be forgiven. So, I have to ask this question, are we capable of doing something that God can't? Meaning, if I am able to forgive someone of their sin against me without them asking for forgiveness, why is it we can believe God can't? All good things come from above, don't they? And if He can give us that ability, shouldn't it stand to reason He has it? And that is because, you cannot give what you don't have. How can we believe He can't forgive us unless we ask for it, despite the fact that we are capable of doing it? Are we capable of doing more than God?
I can go on and on trying to explain what I believe and why I believe it, but if someone is not willing to believe that it is possible "all" can be saved, they will always reject that possibility.
Are you willing to put as much time into studying the Bible in the "all" context as you have in studying it in the "some" context? The answer to that question for most would probably be "no". And that is because, it means they would have to start all over again from scratch, as if they know nothing. But, with that in mind, doesn't Jesus Himself say,
"Verily I say unto you, except ye be converted and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 18:3). (Emphasis is mine). Doesn't every child start from scratch, as if they know nothing? You be the judge? For God has given you the ability to judge for yourself.
The thing is, I am not asking you to throw away everything that you believe, I only ask that you set it aside while studying the Bible in the "all will be saved" context. The reason I say this is because, if someone approached you with a verse that is in the context that "all will be saved", you know for a fact that you can quote a verse that is in the context that only "some will be saved". Therefore, what you quoted, you believe to be a correct translation and what they quoted, you believe to be an incorrect translation. So, try putting yourself in their place, believe that what they quoted was a correct translation and what you quoted to be an incorrect translation and see what you come up with. Again, being a righteous judge views both sides of the case as if they are telling the truth.
Do we even realize that if we do not have the ability to judge, the ability to judge good and evil, we can't stop doing evil? The reason for this is, how can we stop doing evil if we don't even know what evil is? Therefore, God caused "all" to eat from the tree through the flesh of Adam, so He could show mercy to "all". And I myself fully believe it was the righteous thing to do. Because if He hadn't, we would never know what evil is, thereby nullifying any ability to stop doing it.
Most people jump to a conclusion that "all" being saved is a lie, can a righteous judge jump to a conclusion without investigating both sides of the case? You be the judge, you were given that ability and that ability came from God as a gift, it was freely given. Don't use it unrighteously without investigation. The easiest thing to do is reject what you don't like, but do we ask ourselves "Why don't I like it?" And the easiest thing to do is reject what we don't understand, but do we ask ourselves, "Why don't I understand it?"
my :2c:
:HeartThrob:
Isaiah 25:8
He will swallow up death forever. The Lord GOD will wipe away the tears from every face and remove the disgrace of His people from the whole earth. For the LORD has spoken.
It will be said on that day,
"Behold, this is our God; we have waited for him, that he might save us.
This is the Lord; we have waited for him;
let us be glad and rejoice in his salvation."
The highest and purest form of love is the kind that will forgive any and all acts of betrayal against you
That is what I believe the definition of agape is and that our risen Lord is the manifestation of its fullness
He "IS" the personification of its fullness
my :2c:
Just like the arteries have to be connected to the heart in order for the blood to flow throughout the body
so do the arteries of compassion have to be connected to a heart of love so that the blood of forgiveness can flow throughout the body of grace
What we speak of reveals the heart.
"But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man" (Matthew 15:18)
Under what covenant do they speak? It is my opinion that those who believe in hell (as men teach it) have a heart of law, but it is mans way of the law in this world, and it is because of that heart of man's way of the law that they define "justice" as:
salvation (from hell/prison) for those who obey the law
AND
punishment (in hell/prison) for those who disobey the law
Jesus also says: "For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also" (Matthew 6:21)
If we treasure man's way of the law it becomes easy to believe in hell (as men teach it)
When we take man's system of law, punishment and prisons; and then apply it to God, then hell (as men teach it) becomes God's prison system that He created under the same kind of system of law and punishment as man.
But if we have a heart of grace (the new covenant), it is then that we come to understand who God truly is:
That He is all about destroying the evil "IN" a man thereby saving the man from doing evil to others
Their masters of theology is FROM MEN and the context they study the word of God under is:
the context of law and punishment (man's system)
NOT
the context of law and correction (God's system)
repentance is of the mind, for "to repent" means to think differently, think differently about man's system of law and punishment and SEE God's system of law and correction
are we to believe that the words "I will draw all men unto me" is not a law that Christ Himself has to obey, because if He doesn't, then does that not make God the Father a liar if Christ is the exact representation of the Father?
I do not believe that it is possible for God to say He will do something and then not do it
He will draw all men unto Himself to destroy the evil that is "IN" the man, thereby saving the man
correcting what came "INTO" the man through the first Adam
and if we do not believe God can do this after our physical death, then we remain under man's understanding of who God is and not God's Himself
my opinion
"I will draw all men unto me"
Jugghead could you analyze those words more to make it more meaningful?
like does the "all" actually mean everyone and even if He does "draw" all men does that mean that they accepted his offer or do some get drawn but go there own way?
Thanks
Quote from: Andrew on October 06, 2019, 07:42:07 PM
"I will draw all men unto me"
Jugghead could you analyze those words more to make it more meaningful?
like does the "all" actually mean everyone and even if He does "draw" all men does that mean that they accepted his offer or do some get drawn but go there own way?
Thanks
Good point. I've shared before that I believe in what I later found out is the Jewish purgatory, because I was taken there by His Spirit. He can and does save all to the uttermost, even from those things that weigh down the soul and keep it bound, it's only for a season of repentance which He illustrated when He went into the heart of the earth and brought men out who were seen of many. His arm is not so short it cannot reach, nor His love so shallow it only applies to this life. That IS good news. Blessings...
Quote from: Andrew on October 06, 2019, 07:42:07 PM
"I will draw all men unto me"
Jugghead could you analyze those words more to make it more meaningful?
like does the "all" actually mean everyone and even if He does "draw" all men does that mean that they accepted his offer or do some get drawn but go there own way?
Thanks
In understanding the physical principle that "a father can have a son", to have the spiritual principle revealed can have a very drastic impact on how we think and how we understand the Bible. If we know that God is the Father and we believe the words of John when he says that "God is Love" (1st John 4:16), would it not stand to reason, that to say "the Father is love" is same as saying "God is love"?
Now let me ask a question, would Love give birth to Forgiveness or unforgiveness? Let's stop for a second and bring in the subjects of law and obedience; is there any reason for forgiveness to even exist if the law is obeyed? And for that matter, is there any reason for unforgiveness to even exist if the law is obeyed? We know for a fact that both forgiveness and unforgiveness exist, but if the law is obeyed, forgiveness and unforgiveness have no purpose for existence. It is here we need to understand that it is only through "the breaking of the law" that a need for the existence of forgiveness and unforgiveness comes into the picture.
The simple reason that this is true is because,
When it comes to forgiveness:
you can only be forgiving when the law is broken because there is nothing to forgive when the law is obeyed
and the same holds true
When it comes to unforgiveness:
you can only be unforgiving when the law is broken because there is nothing to not forgive when the law is obeyed.
We can understand that we can have forgiveness in us and we can also understand that we can have unforgiveness in us, and we can understand that we can have both of these in us at the same time? But now let me ask this question, if we have the capability to have both in us, which do we love more? Do we love forgiveness more than we love unforgiveness or do we love unforgiveness more than forgiveness?
It is here I would like to bring up the subjects of law and grace. We know that in the Bible, God had two covenants, the covenant of law and the covenant of grace and since the covenant of law came first and then came the covenant of grace, we can see and understand a difference between the two of old and new, the old covenant, which is law and then the new covenant, which is grace.
The word "covenant" as defined by a dictionary is: as an agreement, usually formal, between two or more persons to do or not do something specified. Under the agreement of law, what is it that is specified to do or not to do? Is it not obedience, to obey the law? But also, under this agreement we have a choice, we can either be forgiving when the law is broken or we can be unforgiving when the law is broken and as long as we are under this agreement of law, it is not wrong to
be unforgiving hide forgiveness for a time, because the hiding of forgiveness is temporary and will be revealed at a later time.
But where the two agreements differ is that under the agreement of grace, the thing that is specified to do or not do has to do with forgiving and not forgiving. If we enter into the agreement of grace, we have agreed to "not be" unforgiving and this is because, if we agree to be a person of grace, we are always to freely give forgiveness, because if we do not freely give forgiveness then we are withholding it. Which, by the withholding of forgiveness, we can place ourselves back under the agreement of law by not giving it.
What I myself believe, when it comes to the two agreements (the two covenants) is what we are tempted to do under each covenant (agreement). Under the agreement of grace, unforgiveness is the temptation of breaking the law of love, whereas, under the agreement of law, the temptation is the breaking of the law itself.
Understanding that our progression forward is to be perfect in love, which I believe means to also be perfect in forgiveness. Because our downward journey (backward progression) can be from always being forgiving to being tempted to withhold forgiveness, then to being tempted to be unforgiving, then to being tempted to go back to the old covenant of the law, to being tempted to condemn those who break the law, to wanting death for those who break the law, because is it not the person of grace that dies through this downward progression?
So, if you have entered into the agreement to forgive as you have been forgiven, to not be led into temptation, why do we constantly break this agreement when this is all said in the Lord's prayer.
Our Father which art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever. Amen. (Matthew 6:9-13).
Are you willing to repent? Meaning: Are you willing to think differently? If so, then can you see what I see in this prayer?
Love which is in heaven, hallowed be thy name. (The Father's name is Love)
Thy kingdom come. (His kingdom of forgiveness under the covenant of grace)
Thy will be done in earth (His will is the forgiveness of sin/debt in the earth)
As it is in heaven (Love forgives sin/debt in heaven)
Give us this day our daily bread. (His forgiveness of sin/debt))
And forgive us our debts (Which He does daily)
As we forgive our debtors (Giving forgiveness to others)
And lead us not into temptation (To withhold forgiveness)
But deliver us from evil (The breaking of the Law of Love)
For thine is the kingdom (Forgiveness belongs to Him and He freely gives it)
And the power (His power is forgiveness)
And the glory (His glory is forgiveness)
Forever (Forgiveness lasts forever)
Amen. (So be it)
I fully believe that John understood this also, because when he wrote "the word became flesh", it is to be understood that Christ Jesus IS "the forgiveness of God" that dwelt among us in the flesh and men crucified the Son of God, they crucified the Forgiveness of the Father; they crucified who the Father sent.
In the short explanation:
The forgiveness of sin is the good news and it is freely given to cast out the fear of death
the Son (the personification of Forgiveness) will draw all men unto Himself so that the Father (the personification of Love) is revealed in the hearts and minds of men
Forgiveness died because of the law but is raised up again because of grace
my :2c:
When Forgiveness is exalted (lifted up)
Needed to edit what I believed to be wrong in my explanation, the edit is in blue
very interesting explanation Jugghead...you definetly gave the verse a deeper look.
nice to hear your thoughts Cardinal
Do you think that "Salvation is from the jews" could it also have a meaning to point to their jewish perguratory idea?
Quote from: Andrew on October 06, 2019, 07:42:07 PM
"I will draw all men unto me"
Jugghead could you analyze those words more to make it more meaningful?
like does the "all" actually mean everyone and even if He does "draw" all men does that mean that they accepted his offer or do some get drawn but go there own way?
Thanks
Amen, the Lord said He will draw "all" to Himself -
The verse, John 12:32 (w/ context) -
- "...31 Now judgment is upon this world; now the prince of this world will be cast out. 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw
all men to Myself." 33 He said this to indicate the kind of death He was going to die."
"All" is the word "pas"= "all, every, the whole" — especially, taking into consideration other verses, for example, like - 1 Corinthians 15:22 - "like all die in Adam, all will live in Jesus.." and Ephesians 1:10 and Colossians 1:20 which speak of "all in heaven and earth" - "being gathered into Jesus".
The verse - John 12:32 - https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/12-32.htm
- word #3956 - https://biblehub.com/greek/3956.htm
:thumbsup: :Peace2: :banana:
p.s. - 2 Peter 2:9 - "...the LORD knows how to preserve the unjust" (the not yet just!) "for CORRECTION/kolazo on day of judgment" (represented by Israel's ancient Day Of Atonement, in between Trumpets and Tabernacles)
The Lord said (John 5:28-29) "ALL in the tombs" (graves) " will hear His voice and come forth" (out of the graves/tombs) "..some in the resurrection of life" (at Jesus' return, Rev.20) "and some in the resurrection of judgment" (which is "after the thousand years"/millennium (Rev.20).
Quote from: Andrew on October 15, 2019, 04:57:55 PM
very interesting explanation Jugghead...you definetly gave the verse a deeper look.
nice to hear your thoughts Cardinal
Do you think that "Salvation is from the jews" could it also have a meaning to point to their jewish perguratory idea?
:cloud9: Thanks. He has opened my eyes to so much pertaining to this and more since HE started having me be Torah observant, it's almost like I'm reading a new book, which is pretty much what it's like every time He gives you a new revelation, ie. you see it mirrored EVERYWHERE in there like the multifaceted jewel it is. It's pure life to those that find it. Blessings....
Quote from: Cardinal on October 29, 2019, 09:28:58 PM
Quote from: Andrew on October 15, 2019, 04:57:55 PM
very interesting explanation Jugghead...you definetly gave the verse a deeper look.
nice to hear your thoughts Cardinal
Do you think that "Salvation is from the jews" could it also have a meaning to point to their jewish perguratory idea?
:cloud9: Thanks. He has opened my eyes to so much pertaining to this and more since HE started having me be Torah observant, it's almost like I'm reading a new book, which is pretty much what it's like every time He gives you a new revelation, ie. you see it mirrored EVERYWHERE in there like the multifaceted jewel it is. It's pure life to those that find it. Blessings....
Hi Cardinal, what I put in bold in your response is what happens with me also, as if each revelation is a master key that opens up everything in new light.
For me, if it wasn't for that, the written word would get very boring, and I also believe it can be compared to salt, you can't see the flavor in it but you know for a fact that its there because you can taste it
and I still remember the very first time I tasted it, it was with this verse in the NASB:
For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; (Hebrews 6:7)
The message of the forgiveness of sins for all of mankind
To some it is like a plague of which they can not and will not drink
To others it is the best that was saved for last
for even Jesus compared wine to His blood
Quote from: jugghead on November 02, 2019, 07:41:28 PM
The message of the forgiveness of sins for all of mankind
To some it is like a plague of which they can not and will not drink
To others it is the best that was saved for last
for even Jesus compared wine to His blood
:thumbsup: Amen!!! :banana: :cloud9:
When the Spirit of Forgiveness/Love thoroughly rules in our life, is there any room for an unforgiving spirit? :HeartThrob:
If we only forgive/love them which forgive/love us, what makes us any different than any one else in this world? :sigh:
Are we not a peculiar people? :dsunny:
I would rather show the Light of Forgiveness than the darkness of unforgiveness. :2c:
Do we put on the black robe under law?
OR
Do we put on the white robe under grace?
Amen! :thumbsup: Unforgiveness.. like clanging a door shut on light..
I must say that this is my all time favorite Tentmaker thread. Keep up the good work y'all!
Just as we can see "lightning" flash from "the east to the west" across the sky, so is a "revelation" flashed across the mind from "the beginning to the end"
And just as "thunder" can be heard as "the voice of God", so is the "thunder" heard AND felt in the heart
Jugghead...I hope you don't mind me saying that these are just incredible posts...You know I don't say that lightly.
...I am learning everytime I come here to read (I am working through all that you have written).
I just wanted to thank you for taking the time to write and bless us here...And for bringing sunshine to me today! :dsunny:
:gimmefive:
A candle does not fulfill its purpose of being created if it is not lit
so "this little light of mine, I'm going to let it shine"
and I don't think there is anybody here that doesn't remember that song from childhood
Thank you for the kind words
Quote from: jugghead on October 30, 2019, 07:43:03 PM
Quote from: Cardinal on October 29, 2019, 09:28:58 PM
Quote from: Andrew on October 15, 2019, 04:57:55 PM
very interesting explanation Jugghead...you definetly gave the verse a deeper look.
nice to hear your thoughts Cardinal
Do you think that "Salvation is from the jews" could it also have a meaning to point to their jewish perguratory idea?
:cloud9: Thanks. He has opened my eyes to so much pertaining to this and more since HE started having me be Torah observant, it's almost like I'm reading a new book, which is pretty much what it's like every time He gives you a new revelation, ie. you see it mirrored EVERYWHERE in there like the multifaceted jewel it is. It's pure life to those that find it. Blessings....
Hi Cardinal, what I put in bold in your response is what happens with me also, as if each revelation is a master key that opens up everything in new light.
For me, if it wasn't for that, the written word would get very boring, and I also believe it can be compared to salt, you can't see the flavor in it but you know for a fact that its there because you can taste it
and I still remember the very first time I tasted it, it was with this verse in the NASB:
For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; (Hebrews 6:7)
Exactly.....each revelation increases our vision and scope of the entirety of the Word and the creation and system in play around us. He has accelerated that so much in the past 3 years with me, it's truly mind blowing. Today I had an open eye vision of something. I was just stunned. I saw it like I'm looking at anything else, thought what I saw really happened, then 2 minutes later it wasn't there. I think it was a warning. Things are moving so fast right now........blessings.....
Where is His Spirit of gentleness? Where is His Spirit of patience? Where is His Spirit of meekness?
Are these not the wheat of His Spirit which will be used to make the Bread of Life?
Would not the tares be crassness, impatience and force?
The roots are entangled within the ground of the heart, to pull up one may pull up the other.
The purification of the ground, to make it good soil, will keep the tares from growing, for they feed on the impurities still there.
:2c:
Law and Grace
Under which Covenant do we reside?
We know that there are two covenants, the Covenant of Law and the Covenant of Grace. But have we ever made the connection of the two covenants to the Spirit of Forgiveness and the spirit of unforgiveness?
Here is something to think about for a few minutes.
If the law is obeyed, there is no need for a
"forgiving" Spirit to even exist, because there is nothing
"to be forgiving" about if the law is not broken.
NOW HERE:S THE KICKER: the same holds true for an "unforgiving" spirit.If the law is obeyed, there is no need for an
"unforgiving" spirit to even exist, because there is nothing
"to be unforgiving" about if the law is not broken.
Do we even understand that there is only one reason both spirits exist? That the only reason both spirits exist is because
"the law has been broken". We should already have the knowledge and understanding of
"obedience" and
"disobedience". What I mean by this is:
That
"to obey" the law means
"to not break" the law (
obedience)
AND
That
"to break" the law means
"to not obey" the law (
disobedience)
But have we come to understand that if the law is obeyed nothing happens, that someone cannot
"forgive you" or
"not forgive you" as long as the law is obeyed? It is only when the law is not obeyed (broken) that someone can
"forgive you" or
"not forgive you".
And have we come to understand that it is when the law is broken (not obeyed), we ourselves can and will make the choice
"to forgive" or
"not to forgive", and by that choice, of what kind of spirit we become when the law is not obeyed (broken)?
Do we become a
"forgiving" Spirit when it is broken?
OR
Do we become an
"unforgiving" spirit when it is broken?
If there is one thing I have come to understand through my studies of the Bible, God is all about restoring
"relationship". Do we not believe that this is true, since everything God does is to restore man's relationship to Himself? So, the question that begs to be asked is this:
Is it the act of
"forgiveness" that will restore a
relationship?
OR
Is it the act of
"unforgiveness" that will restore a
relationship?
Is this not what we come to understand through the cross? That by God forgiving us of our trespasses, He is the first one that has done something to restore the relationship between Himself and man? And are we like a first fruit in this world towards others?
If
"forgiveness" is the cause of the restoration of a relationship
AND
If
"unforgiveness" is the cause of the separation of a relationship
What is it that we have to accept first from God, is it actually His forgiveness or is it this truth of:
What the
"spirit of forgiveness" does?
AND
What the
"spirit of unforgiveness" does?
Do we build relationships by being forgiving?
OR
Do we destroy relationships by being unforgiving?
Are not relationships built by "forgiveness"?
AND
Are not relationships destroyed by "unforgiveness"?
I have thought long and hard about this, and the conclusion I myself have come to is this:
"unforgiveness" is what causes the separation in any relationship
WHEREAS
"forgiveness" is what causes the restoration of any relationship
Do we see this in ourselves in our own minds and hearts? Does the "unforgiving spirit" keep the
"forgiving spirit" locked up and in chains in our hearts, only to let Him out to those who are closest to us? What benefit is it to us or even the rest of the world if we only forgive those who would forgive us? Is that not the way of the majority of the people in this world?
That
"forgiving some" is the broad way of the people in this world? (the majority, the road that many take)
AND
That
"forgiving all" is the narrow way of the people in this world? (the minority, the path that few take)
Is this
"unforgiving spirit" in us, this spirit of darkness in us, is
"he" the veil that keeps us from seeing who our heavenly Father truly is: that Jesus was/is/always will be the first FORGIVING SPIRIT to be risen from the dead, and is ALIVE? And is He alive in us?
Do we even understand this way of thinking in its fullness when God Himself says,
"for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more." (Jerimiah 31:34), being quoted twice by the New Testament author of Hebrews:
"For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more." (8:12)
"And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. (10:17)." I myself fully believe that God only has to say something ONCE, and it will happen, because if it doesn't, then wouldn't that make Him a liar?
What I believe is the most misunderstood thing about the mind of man is, he has a very hard time separating sin from the man in his mind and heart, that they are still one. What I mean by this is: if we understand them as one, then it is easy to say, destroying an evil man ... will ... at the same time ... destroy the evil in him.
But I believe our heavenly Father thinks differently, He is able to separate the man and evil in His own mind and heart, and sees them as two totally different things. And what I mean by this is:
God will show mercy to the man
While at the same timeGod will show no mercy to the evil in the man
This is what I believe when it comes to the understanding of the Covenant of Law and the Covenant of Grace working together as one, by law, God will destroy the evil spirit IN the man and that this in itself IS the grace of God for all of mankind, and this I fully believe IS:
THE GOOD NEWS (THE GOSPEL) FOR ALL OF MANKINDAs for us:
Are we strictly of our own understanding of LAW and GRACE, wanting an evil man destroyed and a righteous man saved?
OR
Are we strictly of God's understanding of LAW and GRACE, wanting the evil IN the man destroyed MAKING him a righteous man?
Is this not what we should always be praying for? Praying for the destruction of the evil IN a man rather than the destruction of the man himself?
Are we not to pray for HIS KINGDOM to come, to pray for HIS WILL to be done, to be done ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN?
Quote from: jugghead on November 10, 2019, 08:07:36 AM
Just as we can see "lightning" flash from "the east to the west" across the sky, so is a "revelation" flashed across the mind from "the beginning to the end"
And just as "thunder" can be heard as "the voice of God", so is the "thunder" heard AND felt in the heart
:thumbsup:
Quote - Cardinal
Quote
Exactly.....each revelation increases our vision and scope of the entirety of the Word and the creation and system in play around us. He has accelerated that so much in the past 3 years with me, it's truly mind blowing. Today I had an open eye vision of something. I was just stunned. I saw it like I'm looking at anything else, thought what I saw really happened, then 2 minutes later it wasn't there. I think it was a warning. Things are moving so fast right now........blessings.....
:iagree:
Quote from: jugghead on November 28, 2019, 11:35:54 PM
Law and Grace
Under which Covenant do we reside?
We know that there are two covenants, the Covenant of Law and the Covenant of Grace. But have we ever made the connection of the two covenants to the Spirit of Forgiveness and the spirit of unforgiveness?
Here is something to think about for a few minutes.
If the law is obeyed, there is no need for a "forgiving" Spirit to even exist, because there is nothing "to be forgiving" about if the law is not broken.
NOW HERE:S THE KICKER: the same holds true for an "unforgiving" spirit.
If the law is obeyed, there is no need for an "unforgiving" spirit to even exist, because there is nothing "to be unforgiving" about if the law is not broken.
Do we even understand that there is only one reason both spirits exist? That the only reason both spirits exist is because "the law has been broken". We should already have the knowledge and understanding of "obedience" and "disobedience". What I mean by this is:
That "to obey" the law means "to not break" the law (obedience)
AND
That "to break" the law means "to not obey" the law (disobedience)
But have we come to understand that if the law is obeyed nothing happens, that someone cannot "forgive you' or "not forgive you" as long as the law is obeyed? It is only when the law is not obeyed (broken) that someone can "forgive you" or "not forgive you".
And have we come to understand that it is when the law is broken (not obeyed), we ourselves can and will make the choice "to forgive" or "not to forgive", and by that choice, of what kind of spirit we become when the law is not obeyed (broken)?
Do we become a "forgiving" Spirit when it is broken?
OR
Do we become an "unforgiving" spirit when it is broken?
If there is one thing I have come to understand through my studies of the Bible, God is all about restoring "relationship". Do we not believe that this is true, since everything God does is to restore man's relationship to Himself? So, the question that begs to be asked is this:
Is it the act of "forgiveness" that will restore a relationship?
OR
Is it the act of "unforgiveness" that will restore a relationship?
Is this not what we come to understand through the cross? That by God forgiving us of our trespasses, He is the first one that has done something to restore the relationship between Himself and man? And are we like a first fruit in this world towards others?
If "forgiveness" is the cause of the restoration of a relationship
AND
If "unforgiveness" is the cause of the separation of a relationship
What is it that we have to accept first from God, is it actually His forgiveness or is it this truth of:
What the "spirit of forgiveness" does?
AND
What the "spirit of unforgiveness" does?
Do we build relationships by being forgiving?
OR
Do we destroy relationships by being unforgiving?
Are not relationships built by "forgiveness"?
AND
Are not relationships destroyed by "unforgiveness"?
I have thought long and hard about this, and the conclusion I myself have come to is this:
"unforgiveness" is what causes the separation in any relationship
WHEREAS
"forgiveness" is what causes the restoration of any relationship
Do we see this in ourselves in our own minds and hearts? Does the "unforgiving spirit" keep the "forgiving spirit" locked up and in chains in our hearts, only to let Him out to those who are closest to us? What benefit is it to us or even the rest of the world if we only forgive those who would forgive us? Is that not the way of the majority of the people in this world?
That "forgiving some" is the broad way of the people in this world? (the majority, the road that many take)
AND
That "forgiving all" is the narrow way of the people in this world? (the minority, the path that few take)
Is this "unforgiving spirit" in us, this spirit of darkness in us, is "he" the veil that keeps us from seeing who our heavenly Father truly is: that Jesus was/is/always will be the first FORGIVING SPIRIT to be risen from the dead, and is ALIVE? And is He alive in us?
Do we even understand this way of thinking in its fullness when God Himself says, "for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more." (Jerimiah 31:34), being quoted twice by the New Testament author of Hebrews:
"For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. (8:12)
"And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. (10:17).
I myself fully believe that God only has to say something ONCE, and it will happen, because if it doesn't, then wouldn't that make Him a liar?
What I believe is the most misunderstood thing about the mind of man is, he has a very hard time separating sin from the man in his mind and heart, that they are still one. What I mean by this is: if we understand them as one, then it is easy to say, destroying an evil man ... will ... at the same time ... destroy the evil in him.
But I believe our heavenly Father thinks differently, He is able to separate the man and evil in His own mind and heart, and sees them as two totally different things. And what I mean by this is:
God will show mercy to the man
While at the same time
God will show no mercy to the evil in the man
This is what I believe when it comes to the understanding of the Covenant of Law and the Covenant of Grace working together as one, by law, God will destroy the evil spirit IN the man and that this in itself IS the grace of God for all of mankind, and this I fully believe IS:
THE GOOD NEWS (THE GOSPEL) FOR ALL OF MANKIND
As for us:
Are we strictly of our own understanding of LAW and GRACE, wanting an evil man destroyed and a righteous man saved?
OR
Are we strictly of God's understanding of LAW and GRACE, wanting the evil IN the man destroyed MAKING him a righteous man?
Is this not what we should always be praying for? Praying for the destruction of the evil IN a man rather than the destruction of the man himself?
Are we not to pray for HIS KINGDOM to come, to pray for HIS WILL to be done, to be done ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN?
Few want to hear this, but both are necessary, and both are co-existing at the same time, which is why works (of Torah/fruit) without faith (Spirit/root) is dead or death producing, and vice versa. Seed time and harvest, reaping and sowing, the sun and moon, are all still standing in place. The Torah is lunar based covenant and arguing it's negated makes about as much sense as saying the moon is no longer over us, and why He said they would have no excuse in that day, for the creation reveals His glory, ALL of it. The woman/collective souls of men in Rev. will NOT birth the manchild unless "she" has the proper foundation (the moon beneath her feet). Only a split work is clean, the 2 tablets that condensed the 613, were split for this reason, which the "split work" of Yeshua in the MIDST of the prophet and apostle on the Mount attests to, as do many other "split works". Blessings...
When God's end result (All in All) is revealed to the heart and the mind believes it, that belief becomes the foundation in which all the missing pieces are placed in the emptiness of our own way of thinking
Something that came to mind the other day:
man's righteousness is:
for mankind to love God and withhold forgiveness by condemning those who don't love Him in return
WHEREAS
God's righteousness is:
for Him to love mankind and withhold condemnation by forgiving those who don't love Him in return
To "live in the moment" is having learned from the past, not worrying about the future
(mainly written as a response to CP post #20 in "what was before creation")
A statement came to mind shortly after I wrote my last post that might help
"All things have always existed, they just haven't been "made known/manifested" yet"
Another thought that came to mind this morning is:
Just like parents in this world have prepared a room for when their newborn is brought home, "having everything necessary and prepared to take care of them", so has Christ Jesus done this for us.
it brings to mind John 14:2
"In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you".
He is waiting for our arrival, no matter who we were in this world.
Quote from: GodIsLove on November 23, 2019, 03:21:04 AM
Jesus spoke in parables, meaning telling the people of the time lessons within stories.
Why is this the one parable everyone wants to take literally?
Is the kingdom of heaven literally leaven? Is the universe a big dough ball of bread?
Are we literally going to turn into sheep and goats to be judged?
Do we all have logs or specks of wood in our eyes?
Are Christians literally glowing lamps?
The parables spoke of things the local people of the time period could relate to. Vineyards, bread making, weddings, sowing seeds, a mugging etc. The idea of heaven and hell would have been a story they were familiar with, though not all of the people of the time believed in it. It would be similar to telling a moral tale through a Superman movie plot in today's standards. It's a story we all know, it's simple and can be used as the backdrop for a parable.
It doesn't mean we take Superman or Lazarus to be a real person in a real place, but the message is relayed efficiently through the medium of the story.
It's why the Bible is so hard for people today to understand. It was written for a particular culture and time period and mindset. There's nuance we don't pick up on, and significance that we don't understand. We tend to focus on the wrong parts and wrong messages.
So if it's not to be taken literally, we need to dig deeper and realize a mustard seed is symbolic of something small bearing a big tree, which shows growth.
The rich man and Lazarus is about wasted opportunities, and regret. It can be said to apply to individuals or to nations, namely Israel.
Wanted to take this quote from God Is Love and add it to my tidbits because ....
This is the reason why I believe God uses ALL physical things to teach ... that within ALL physical examples there are spiritual aspects to be gleaned from them
Quote
If you actually look hard enough and can understand it, you will see that white wings was saying that a landfill was trying to be compared to or describe Sheol
It's like seeing the difference between a noun and an adjective, an adjective describes the noun, the noun does not describe the adjective
In other words, it is not seeing the two words as synonyms but as noun and adjective, Sheol is the noun, landfill is the adjective to try and describe Sheol
It's how I see it
I wrote this in the thread "SHEOL RELOADED", but the more I thought about it, the more I thought about what Jesus said heaven is like, that all the examples he used were like adjectives describing a noun, the word "heaven" being the noun and all the examples he used were adjectives trying to describe it ...
It may be a simple understanding but it blew me away like a revelation
just wanted to share
Quote from: jugghead on November 28, 2019, 11:35:54 PM
Law and Grace
Under which Covenant do we reside?
As for us:
Are we strictly of our own understanding of LAW and GRACE, wanting an evil man destroyed and a righteous man saved?
OR
Are we strictly of God's understanding of LAW and GRACE, wanting the evil IN the man destroyed MAKING him a righteous man?
Is this not what we should always be praying for? Praying for the destruction of the evil IN a man rather than the destruction of the man himself?
yes, we should be ' Praying for the destruction of the evil IN a man rather than the destruction of the man himself'...alas, too many will the person be destroyd
Coming in the Clouds
This term is used four times in the New Testament:
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (Matthew 24:30)
Jesus saith unto them, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. (Matthew 26:64)
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. (Mark 13:26)
And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. (Mark 14:62)G3507 (the word translated as clouds)
This word is used 26 times in 22 verses of the New Testament and is translated as cloud or clouds. My question is: Why is it translated as cloud or clouds when it is
G3509 that has the definition of "a cloud" (of which G3507 originated from). The original meaning of G3507 means
"cloudiness", which I believe should be understood as:
a condition caused by the cloud, not the cloud itself.
So, if we are to understand it as "cloud" or "clouds" why wasn't G3509 (the word that means cloud) used instead of G3507 (the word that means cloudiness)?
It is my belief that it is God's Spirit in us that will reveal little things like this to get us to think about what we are reading. What I found was: that
"cloudiness" can be understood in different ways.
First, that it can be understood as "a grey area", a place in between light and darkness. What I mean by that in physical examples is: you are not in direct sunlight and you are not in complete darkness; it is a condition caused by a cloud.
Second, that it can be understood as "a shadow", what we are in when the cloud comes between us and the sun. In other words, we are in the shadow of the cloud.
Third, that it can be understood as "confusion", the inability to see clearly. We know that if a cloud comes between us and the sun, we can no longer see the sun clearly. Also, if a cloud is at ground level, we use the word "fog" to describe it, which is just another example of not being able to see clearly.
It is my belief that even all of what I am writing about can be understood in two different ways.
First, since one thing can be understood in different ways, it can cause confusion.
Second, since one thing can be understood in different ways, it expands our understanding of that one thing.
It is this second example, that I believe, is how God's Spirit works in us. Why do I believe this? I believe this because I believe the words of the apostle Paul when he writes,
"For God is not the author of confusion," (1 Corinthians 14:33).Another reason I believe it to be true is because I have found that the first example can cause separation of two people whereas the second example can cause unity between two people. What I mean by this with the first example is; if two people are trying to understand one example, and they see this one example differently and they both believe it can only be understood in one way; (the way each of them see it), it will cause a separation between these two people.
But in the second example, if two people are trying to understand one example, and they see this one example differently and they both believe that it can be understood in more than one way, it expands both of their understandings of the one example at the same time, causing unity between these two people.
The main reason I am writing about this is because, understanding the term
"coming in the clouds" as
"coming in the cloudiness", we can see two different understandings. One, that when we understand that the Son of man must be crucified, that this can be a reference to
"the man of confusion" that is birthed by the flesh (the first Adam). And second, that when we understand that the Son of man will rise from the dead, that this is a reference to
"the man of clarity" that is birthed by the Spirit (the last Adam), of who Christ is, in that He comes as a light in the shadow, the cloudiness. He comes into our place of not knowing and brings us into His place of knowing, He brings us into the light, the light of understanding.
When we view things in different ways, it expands our understanding of those things. Because when we read the rest of the term "coming in the cloudiness of heaven", how many ways did Jesus describe the kingdom of heaven?
"The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed" (Matthew 13:31)
"The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven" (Matthew 13:33)
"The kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure" (Matthew 13:44)
"The kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man" (Matthew 13:45)
"The kingdom of heaven is like unto a net" (Matthew 13:47)
"The kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is a householder" (Matthew 13:52)
"The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king" (Matthew 22:2)
In all these examples, was Jesus trying to confuse us or expand our understanding of the kingdom of heaven? And if we can understand the kingdom of heaven in different ways, should we not be able to understand everything else that belongs to God in different ways? Do we even understand that we limit our understanding when we only see things a certain way?
Seeing beyond a single word. The Spirit of God opens up a whole new world of understanding.
I always love it when you share your heart Jugg .
I have studied many of the same things brother . and ''get '' what you have shared as explained .
I read where the Holy Spirit / Father come in a voice as a bright cloud and in the form of a dove during Jesus baptism ..
I can always see them as Witnesses . As being overshadowing in the clouds of glory with the heavenly witness and confusion of the earthly witness in what ever is considered understanding .
Luke 3:22 and the Holy Spirit descended on Him in a bodily ...
and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice ... spoken to Me by the LORD: "You are My Son; today I have become Your Father. ... And a voice came from the cloud, saying, "This is My Son, whom I have chosen. ... Strong's Greek 2597: To go down, come down, either from the sky or from ...
2 Peter 1:17
For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was ... He was still speaking when, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and a ... and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form, like a dove; and a voice ... but go to my brothers and say to them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father ...
I have always seen the waters as voices from above and below in the form of clouds/witnesses that give rain or watering the land or our bodies to be edified or warned . or the teaching of many things pertaining to GODS WORD by His
Holy Spirit as a witness
and to keep us from the dragons flood of lies from below as slanderous ... causing the confusion by mixing the meanings .
That cause us to loose our footing and not able to stand in the TRUTH .
Thank you for sharing this , it was a great refresher course for me personally .
rev 12 The War in Heaven
?9And the great dragon was hurled down?that ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels / messengers with him. 10And I heard a loud voice in heaven saying: ?Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ.
For the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down? he who accuses them day and night before our God.
11They have conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony. And they did not love their lives so as to shy away from death.?
To me it seems the court is in session always and we have many witnesses bright clouds and dark ones also whom use their voices like the clouds whom carry waters from above and below , these waters to judge in righteousness and judge to condemn . because we are judging and being judged by our own mouths as to whom sits on the throne of our hearts at any time given to learning the TRUTH and the way and the Life .
Quote from: rosered on October 16, 2020, 09:09:31 PM
To me it seems the court is in session always and we have many witnesses bright clouds and dark ones also whom use their voices like the clouds whom carry waters from above and below , these waters to judge in righteousness and judge to condemn . because we are judging and being judged by our own mouths as to whom sits on the throne of our hearts at any time given to learning the TRUTH and the way and the Life .
Thank you for the kind words and encouragement Rose, I agree with all you wrote and this part stuck out, with what I was telling someone else just the other day.
That the words translated as
"eternal damnation" in Mark 3:29 can be viewed in their original meanings as
"perpetual tribunal",
"the court that is always in session", of which I have come to understand as "there is no rest, no peace".
Blessings Rose and thank you for the reply, it always encourages me when I get positive feedback from the things I write
I thank God for you and all and this place !!!............ loosing that coin , like the old woman parable is what happens to me some times and the truth is I miss the fellowship in the LORD so much .
As recounted in Luke 15, a woman with ten silver coins (Greek drachmae) loses one. She then lights an oil lamp and sweeps her house until she finds it, rejoicing when she does: ... When she has found it, she calls together her friends and neighbors, saying, 'Rejoice with me, for I have found the drachma which I had lost.
Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth (Col 3:2)
To be Non-Bias
It is a belief of mine that
"to be non-bias" is the same as saying
"on the fence", that we are not
"FOR" something but we are also not
"AGAINST" it. We may have an opinion either way, but because of something that may be contradictory (not firm) in our beliefs, we do not lean more towards one than the other.
Would I say that I am
"bias"? Yes, I would. For example: The belief in the existence of God, I am bias
"for" the existence of God, while at the same time, I am bias
"against" the non-existence of God. And the same holds true the other way around.
If I believed that God did not exist, I would be bias
"for" the non-existence of God while at the same time, I would be bias
"against" the existence of God.
All things can be looked at in at least two ways, we become "bias" when we become
"firm" in what we believe. Because I am
"firm" in my belief in the existence of God, I am bias "against" the non-existence of God. What most people tend to miss is what they do with their belief, in other words "what they do with their bias belief".
People tend to hold it "against" a person for believing the way they do, simply because they are not "for" their belief because they believe differently. It is this understanding that has led me to be a person of grace, What I mean by this is: even though I am bias "against" their belief, I do not hold their beliefs "against" them. I separate the person from their beliefs, and in that I can still love the person despite the fact that they do not believe as I do.
In a scriptural sense, I shake the dust off my feet and move on. Not that I walk away from the person (which I have done in the past), but I walk away from the subject of the differences rather than try to force them, or try to convince them to believe what I do. And the reason for this is because, I have considered their beliefs as
"dust" to me (but to them it is not). And all this is based upon, you cannot pour new wine into an old wineskin, for the old wineskin will burst and both the wine and wineskin are lost.
In other words, you can't pour a new belief (our wine) into an old wineskin (their beliefs), to continue to do so will cause them to get angry (burst) and the new wine and the old wineskin are both lost.
You cannot pour the belief of "the existence of God" into a wineskin of the belief of "the non-existence of God". With the simple understanding that "the existence of God" and "the non-existence of God" are two totally different things, so are "the wine" and "the wineskin" two totally different things. The same holds true with "the existence of hell" and "the non-existence of hell". I am bias "for" the belief in the existence of hell but I am bias "against" what it is taught to be.
In other words, I am
"FOR" the belief in the existence of Sheol as a place of the dead, also understood as the grave, which can also be viewed as "being in darkness". And "to be in darkness" is "to be without Light" and understanding "light" as "truth". In other words; "to be without truth" can be understood to be the same as "to be without light". (Is not Jesus both Truth and Light?) But I am
"AGAINST" the belief in the existence of Sheol as "hell" as a place of "eternal torment".
These are my beliefs and I am firm in those beliefs, therefore I am bias "against" other beliefs, but I do not hold the beliefs of another against them. My beliefs are just seeds being planted in a field of fully matured beliefs already growing there. Have I become the enemy sowing tares among the wheat? Not according to what I believe, I am sowing seeds of wheat among the tares that have grown in that field. (But they may think otherwise.)
All this to be prepared in and out of season, and what I mean by that is: I have to know
"WHY" I believe the way I do, In other words; I have to have a reason to back up a statement I have made, and a reason for believing that reason and a reason to believe that reason and so on. In other words, it is a perpetual ... ongoing ... reasoning process with another if they are willing to listen. Of which, this same principle holds true with God and us as individuals, we have to be willing to listen, if not, then we remain where we are and
"cannot move" from that place, which I see as just another way to describe
"being dead".
So, with all this being said,
I AM BIAS when it comes to beliefs (without force/without forcing my beliefs on them)
BUT
I AM NOT BIAS when it comes to people (with Love)
And the REASON for all this: Because
LOVE DOES NOT FORCE
Posted by Jugghead
"In other words, you can't pour a new belief (our wine) into an old wineskin (their beliefs), to continue to do so will cause them to get angry (burst) and the new wine and the old wineskin are both lost."
I like your thinking on this, but perhaps you could expound on it. If the old wineskin is their beliefs, then how are their beliefs "lost" when you pour the new wine into them?
Good catch, that is where the example of the tares and wheat come in, their beliefs and our beliefs are like the tares and the wheat.
But also, the example of separating the beliefs from the person, their beliefs are old wine, but the wineskin (themselves) are the old wineskin, it is an understanding that the wineskin is soaked with the old wine and would burst if new wine was poured in.
But also with an understanding of, if they are already full (full of old wine/their beliefs), there is no room to pour in new wine. It needs to be emptied.
Therefore, if we are to be successful in pouring new wine (our beliefs) into them, they have to become a new person (a new wineskin). They have to be willing "to listen" which is becoming "a new wineskin", otherwise they continue to be an old wineskin pouring out their own beliefs which I view as old beliefs.
Which can go to the parable of the sower, it has to be fertile ground (willing to listen) otherwise the seed (or wine) falls by the wayside.
All these are pieces of the puzzle having to be assembled in a certain way in order to clearly see the picture that is being presented.
Hope this didn't cause you more confusion.
Blessings
Quote from: eaglesway on January 31, 2018, 01:55:40 AM
QuoteChrist is "the heart" of the Father
and
The Father is "the mind" of Christ
Beautiful in simplicity but so powerfully true.
I think it is good to consider what it is the eye recognizes "in the light". Only that which is "real" can be seen in the light. That which is not "real" is in the mind- a reflection of ones own imagination. This why Jesus says, "If the light that is in you is darkness how great is that darkness" and "Because you say you see your sin remains(abides, continues). If you wer blind you would have no sin. Therefore become blind that you may see".
So we have power to tear down strongholds and imaginations that exalt themselves against the true knowledge of God- weapons of righteousness in the right hand and the left. Weapons of righteousness are things like "speaking the truth in love" and "If you find a brother in a fault restore such a one in a spirit of meekness considering your own self lest you stumble" and "The servant of the Lord must not strive, but be gentle, patiently instructing those who oppose themselves so they can escape the snare of the devil".
So we must be "well instructed" by the Holy Spirit in the truth of the word and in the spirit of reconciliation in order to hold the candlestick that will truly shine upon "what is"(I am that I am) and bring hidden things to light.
The hidden things("I speak mysteries in parables, things hidden from the foundation of the wrld") can only be brought to light by those who walk in humility, not priding on what they know, but rather exulting in what saves and transforms and reveals -opening the eyes of the blind.
"The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to set the oppressed free,
to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor."
Beautiful, Eaglesway...I miss your insightful posts...hope you are ok.
Quote from: jugghead on February 25, 2019, 04:58:17 PM
Evil, Good, Righteousness
Here is something to think about, that I know most do not, simply because it has taken 60 years for me to be brought to this conclusion. Most people only view things as good or evil. And I say most, because there are those who say there are some things that are neither good or evil, and then there are some who say that some things can be both good and evil. What most miss out on is understanding the difference between "what is good" and "what is righteous".
In what I have come to understand through my studies is: When we take a law ..... the law that says: do not steal. We know for a fact that it is evil to steal and that it is good not to steal. But do we, in our own understanding connect righteousness with being good? What I mean by this is: we know it is good not to steal, but if we don't steal, does the fact that we do not steal, make us righteous? I myself, don't believe so ..... what makes us righteous is "to give". Simply put:
what is considered to be evil is "to steal"
what is considered to be good is "not to steal"
but what is considered to be righteous is "to give"
..... likewise with killing:
what is considered to be evil is "to kill"
what is considered to be good is "to not kill"
but what is considered to be righteous is "to give life"
Understanding the difference between "the covenant of law" and "the covenant of grace". We know that the "law" is good and that it should be obeyed, but do we love the law more than we love Jesus? If Jesus is "righteous", that "being righteous" is an attribute of Jesus and that "being good" is an attribute of the law and that the Father gave us both, He gave us both the law and He gave us Jesus, that He gave us the law under "the old" covenant of the law and that He gave us Jesus under "the new" covenant of grace, have we come to love "what is good" (the law) more than "what is righteous" (Jesus)? And have we come to love "being good" through the law more than we love "being righteous" through Christ?
For me, to understand the difference between "what is good" and "what is righteous" is so misunderstood because the mind can believe that they are exactly the same thing when they're not. Because even people of church teachings know that there is a big difference between "just being good" and "being righteous". And do we misunderstand that our obedience to the law is "just being good", but our obedience to Christ is "being righteous"? But this comes down to "the reason" for doing something, in other words, it comes down to our "motive" FOR doing something.
Understanding the difference between "have to" and "want to" is very important at this time. Because what is our "motive" FOR giving? Do we give because we "have to" or do we give because we "want to"? In other words, do we give because it is "law" written "ON" our hearts and we "have to" obey that law, OR, do we give because it is "grace" "IN" our hearts and we "want to" obey that grace? Do we see that this "grace" IN our hearts is different than "the law" written ON our hearts?
The disciple John wrote down these words of Christ in the book of Revelation:
"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear My voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with Me." (3:20).
Have we opened the door to our hearts and let the "Grace" of God in? And when we look upon our own heart, do we look beyond whatis written ON our hearts (the law) and see what is IN our hearts (grace)? And do we understand that when we give, it is Christ IN us "wanting to give" to another rather than ourselves of law "having to give" to another? And by this, do we get a better understanding of these words of John:
"Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is He that is in you, than he that is in the world."
(1 John 4:4).
That it is a greater thing to give because you "want to" through Grace, rather than to give because you "have to" through law? Have we BECOME the Grace of God, having entered into the new covenent of grace or have we REMAINED in the law of God, remaining under the old covenant of the law?
The apostle Paul writes these words:
"Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. (Galatians 3:24)
This word "faith" is G1402 with the definition of "persuasion", taken from the word G3982 which means "to convince". So with this in mind, shouldn't we understand that this definition of "persuasion" is understood in the context of "to persuade" or "to convince"? And that when we bring in the concept of "the law", that it is to be understood as "being persuaded" or "being convinced", what is good and what is evil? That the law itself can convince us "what is good" and "what is evil"? But, do we realize that "what is righteous" comes through Christ? Which is why I believe the apostle Paul states what he does in that the law is our schoolmaster to teach us good and evil, but that it is to lead us to Christ to understand "what is righteous" so that we can be justified by being persuaded; being convinced of "what is righteous" through Christ.
This is also why I believe what Paul says when he states:
"For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."
(Romans 10:3-4).
That the ignorance, the lack of understanding God's righteousness (that is "to give"), they went about establishing their own righteousness (that is "to not steal"), having not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God, that righteousness of God being "to give", not just "to not steal", Because Christ is the end of the law for righteousness, "to not steal", to every one that believeth. Do we believe that this is what the apostle meant when he had these words written down in his letter to the Romans? Or do we still lack understanding "what is good" through the law AND "what is righteous" through Christ? For me, it is the understanding of: under the old covenant of the law, it was righteous (good) not to steal, but under the new covenant of grace, what becomes righteous is "to give".
Another reason I believe this is because of the short phrase Paul wrote with the words: "what the law could not do" (Romans 8:3), that the law could not show us "what is righteous", it could not show us that it is "righteous to give", it could only show us "what is good", in other words: it could only show us it was "good" not to steal.
I have no idea if you ..... the reader ..... understand these things that I have written. I hope that you do and that I have not caused you any confusion. That is the last thing I want to do. So all I ask is, if you are confused in understanding this: then consider me a liar and let God be true. Take this directly to Him and literally live the words:
"let God be true; but every man a liar" (Romans 3:4).
I too, am just a man, so consider me a liar. I put myself out there to be judged by you, and I put what I write out there to be judged by you. I don't have to give you any authority to judge me or judge what I write, you already have that. All I ask is that you try to understand the point I am trying to make by thinking about it first; thinking about it "before" you come to a verdict of whether I am a liar or not.
The reason I say all this is because; when we take into consideration the other law I was talking about, that it is evil "to kill" and that it is "good" not to kill; do we also understand that to be righteous is "to give life"? Which raises the question: How do we, being just a human being, give life to someone else, when we know that only God can literally give life to someone?
So by this, thinking from a different perspective, have we ever considered that "to give life" to someone can be understood differently than what we have been taught? If "God is Love" and "Christ is Life" and if we have seen Christ, we have seen the Father; wouldn't it stand to reason that to give "love" to another is to give "life" to another? Do we see this when we read the words:
"And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." (Matthew 22:39),
That if we are giving "love" to our neighbor, we are giving "life" to our neighbor? Do we not yet understand that the understanding
of: the Father and the Son are one, is the same as saying: "Love" and "Life" are one? It has taken over 13 years of studying for me to understand this.
I hope it takes others less.
Blessings
Hi jugghead, just got around to reading this. Sorry it took me so long. I enjoyed reading this, keep up the
good work.
CHB
Just wanted to make a comment on the policy of stating things as "my opinion" or "what I believe".
Don't know if others would agree with me, but it dawned on me just the other day and it makes sense to me.
If we state things as "our opinion" or "our belief" it is coming from us, but if we say that what we speak "IS" truth (even though we believe it is), it is my opinion that we make ourselves out "to be" God rather than a child of His.
Does that make sense to others or am I just splitting hairs?
In other words, I believe it is a GOOD policy
Blessings
:thumbsup: God does say. God is Truth. God shares truth. We, as finite beings who are regenerated/spiritually renewed, are putting on His mind and learning OF Him. Yet none of us ARE Him, and none of us have ALL the truth (IMO :) ). So even though we should be convinced IN OUR OWN minds of certain things, I believe we should still always leave open that there's more to learn, I/we may have only partial knowledge or revelation on a particular matter, or (gasp) even be wrong about something and still stand for some correction/edification.
So I don't believe it's a UNIVERSALLY perfect policy - it does require some discernment and judgment on all our parts, and especially the moderators - still, in a setting like this and for the sake of ongoing discussion/examination, it works PRETTY well. 2 cents. Anything else is called a personal blog, individual teaching, accepted doctrine, etc. :2c: :2c: :2c:
...also, it helps minimize unproductive and unecessary dissension and conflict; which often ends up actually ending a conversation prematurely.
Quote from: jabcat on October 30, 2020, 11:21:26 PM
...also, it helps minimize unproductive and unecessary dissension and conflict; which often ends up actually ending a conversation prematurely.
I agree with all you said jabcat, it just seems to me that there are some who haven't realized it yet
Since Christ is called the Word of God, that He is the physical manifestation of what God speaks, we too are becoming like His Son and speak Him, people accept it or reject it just as they did Jesus.
Which brings to mind, they hate you (love us less) because they first hated Me (loved Jesus less)
But again, this is just my point of view
Quote from: jugghead on October 31, 2020, 03:22:46 AM
Quote from: jabcat on October 30, 2020, 11:21:26 PM
...also, it helps minimize unproductive and unecessary dissension and conflict; which often ends up actually ending a conversation prematurely.
I agree with all you said jabcat, it just seems to me that there are some who haven't realized it yet
Since Christ is called the Word of God, that He is the physical manifestation of what God speaks, we too are becoming like His Son and speak Him, people accept it or reject it just as they did Jesus.
Which brings to mind, they hate you (love us less) because they first hated Me (loved Jesus less)
But again, this is just my point of view
:2thumbs: :dsunny:
Double Minded
(Two spirited)
I was reading an article about being double minded, the explanation that was given for being double minded only dealt with the law of God. What I mean by that is: When we are tempted to sin, do we sin or do we not sin? In other words, "is it only law that comes to mind"? And we either disregard the law (throw the law away) and disobey the law and sin anyway or do we not disregard the law (not throw it away) and obey it by not sinning? If being double minded has to do with only the Covenant of Law, why is there also a Covenant of Grace?
It is my belief that we have misunderstood what it means to be double minded. The disciple James uses the word G1374 twice in his writing, (1:8 and 4:8) and it is the only place that this word is used in all of the New Testament. It has the original meaning of:
two spirited, that is, vacillating (in opinion or purpose). It is my opinion that God used the Law to show us how we can be "two spirited", that we can have a spirit of obedience and we can have a spirit of disobedience. But is this where our understanding of being "two spirited" is to end? I myself do not believe so.
In the Gospel of Luke we see a different example of being two spirited (if you choose to believe that it is).
The disciples James and John wanted to call down fire from heaven to consume the Samaritans that did not receive him, but Jesus rebuked them by saying
"Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of" (9:55) and then he says
"For the Son of Man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them." (9:56). Can you see the two spirits here? A spirit of destruction and a Spirit of saving? With this, do we see that since they were rebuked by Jesus, that if they carried out their action of bringing down fire from heaven to destroy the Samaritans, they would have been disobeying Jesus? But, because they were rebuked, which I believe, was Jesus saying it is wrong to destroy men, they obeyed Jesus by not calling down the fire.
Do we believe that Jesus will destroy the men who do not receive Him? Do we believe God is a spirit of destruction despite the fact that His Son rebuked the disciples that had this spirit? If the Father and the Son are one Spirit, how can we believe God will destroy those who do not receive Jesus rather than save them? It is my understanding that God is a destroyer of sin
NOT a destroyer of men, simply because, it is my belief that by the destruction of sin in a man, it saves the man; it saves the man from that which causes his own destruction and the destruction of others, that cause being sin itself.
To take this a step further, I believe that we need to understand the difference between the terms "to condemn" and "to destroy". Both of these terms are actions on our part, that "to condemn" is an action of coming to a conclusion of guilt (a verdict of guilt) through our own mind and heart and that "to destroy" is the action of our own body carrying out the sentence; the carrying out of the sentence we believe that fits the sin/crime that we condemned the person of.
So, by this, do we see that James and John had condemned the Samaritans for not receiving Jesus? They had come to the conclusion that it was wrong to not receive Jesus, they come to a verdict of guilt, and that a spirit of condemnation was in their own mind and heart, and now that spirit of condemnation gains strength from the body and is manifested as a spirit of destruction through the physical body, carrying out the act of destruction through the physical body.
It is a hard thing to think about that John and James sought to be instruments of destruction against the Samaritans because of the spirit of condemnation that was in their heart and mind. But this is what I see in the reason why Jesus rebuked them. He saw the spirit of condemnation in their heart and knew that the next thing that would happen would be for them to want to try and destroy what the Son of Man came to save.
It is my belief that a deeper understanding of being "two spirited" doesn't pertain to just "a Spirit of obedience" (which is of the Son) and "a spirit of disobedience" (which is of man), of which, these have to do with the Covenant of Law, but it also pertains to "a Spirit of Saving" (which is of the Son) and "a spirit of destruction" (which is of man), of which these two have to do with both the Covenant of Law and the Covenant of Grace.
It is my belief that we become the new creature of forgiveness when we move into the new Covenant of Grace, putting to death the old creature of condemnation that we became under the old Covenant of the Law; of which I believe is our spiritual baptism. That to be baptized is to be submerged into the Spirit of Grace where the old self of condemnation through the law becomes bound.
Recorded by Matthew in his gospel, Jesus says this:
"How can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? And then he will spoil his house" (Matthew 12:29).
I understand this as: How can Christ (the Spirit of Grace) enter into a strong man's house (the spirit of condemnation's heart of law) and spoil his goods (the works of the devil), except Christ first binds the spirit of condemnation (strong man)? And then Christ can spoil his house (heart of condemnation). Do we not read that
"the strength of sin is the law"? Which I can see as:
"the strong man of sin is the law".
For me, to be "two spirited" is to be a house divided, that we can have both spirits in us, "the Spirit of forgiveness" and "the spirit of condemnation" one through the Covenant of Grace (the Spirit of forgiveness) and the other through the Covenant of Law (the spirit of condemnation). But we can't see that we ourselves are divided, despite the fact that when we divide mankind in two, condemning some while forgiving others, (when ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God) that this is an outward manifestation of what is taking place inside of us.
I myself choose to be of only the Covenant of Grace, being the new creature of forgiveness, and the only way I am of the Covenant of Law is to condemn sin, not men. For it is my belief that this is how both Covenants work together as one.
As always, this is how I understand things and it is only my opinion
Blessings
Just something that came to mind and wanted to share.
Healing is Saving
How often have we read Luke 14:1-5 and missed the treasure hidden in this example? In all of our personal studies, we constantly run across contrasts and comparisons, we know, and have found some that are very obvious, but then there are those that are not so obvious, and I believe, they cannot be revealed unless the door to our heart remains open to allow the Spirit of God to enter in and sup.
What I am speaking of here is the comparison of the two things that Jesus speaks in these verses. He asks the question, "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath day?" (v. 3) and then He asks another question, "Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the Sabbath day?" (v. 5).
We know by verse one that Jesus heals a man who has dropsy, but by the comparison of the two questions, do we see that Jesus is comparing the disease dropsy to falling into a pit, and that another comparison is that in His healing of the man, it is a comparison of the animal being pulled out of the pit?
I found it interesting when I read up on the disease of dropsy, that it is a retention of water which causes a swelling of body parts. Looking at the spiritual aspect of it, we know that water can be compared to a spirit, and that in other studies of the written word that we can become swelled up in knowledge and that can also lead us to become prideful in that knowledge.
How smart is Jesus to use a physical example of a man who suffers from dropsy to be an example of what the Pharisees suffered from spiritually in being prideful in their knowledge of the law? Because is not His first question. "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath day?" trying to show them they are not as knowledgeable about the law as they think and the proof of it is in the lack of an answer by them.
Now, looking at this from a different perspective when it comes to the examples of an ass and an ox. That in these two examples, what I believe are the most obvious aspects of these two animals are, an ass has the aspect of stubbornness, and the ox has the aspect of strength, and that the two combined is being strong in stubbornness, which I also believe can be compared to being stiff-necked or prideful.
Now, getting back to the comparison of the two examples of healing the man from dropsy and the pulling of an animal from the pit, this is what I believe to be a comparison of healing and saving, that these two things can be viewed as different, but also can be viewed as the same thing through the mind of Jesus.
That the physical healing from dropsy is a spiritual saving from the pit of pride.
I like what you share brother ,
I BELIEVE that Jesus CHRIST IS the sabbath day and rest .... and the tree of life etc . all is that was and will be for sure .
ACTS 7 48However, the Most High does not dwell in houses made by human hands. As the prophet says:
49? Heaven is My throne
and the earth is My footstool.
What kind of house will you build for Me, says the Lord,
or where will My place of repose be?
50Has not My hand made all these things??
51You stiff-necked people with uncircumcised hearts and ears!
You always resist the Holy Spirit, just as your fathers did.
52Which of the prophets did your fathers fail to persecute? They even killed those who foretold the coming of the Righteous One. And now you are His betrayers and murderers?
53you who received the law ordained by angels, yet have not kept it.
My main concern is how one IS always resisting the Holy Spirit !
I understand how hard it is to share truth with one another
truth is reality and facts from GOD , not statements
words without proof create doubts and cause many to stumble over the truth .
I believe we have been horribly subjected to lies , delusions and that is though our hearing ,
illusions are brought on though our seeing incorrectly
and understanding is the inability to discern and seperate what is of the world and what is of God .
What good is Wisdom with out understanding it ? it is just babble .
Healing to me ,is given the eyes to see and ears to hear and a heart to understand what the Holy Spirit is saying ..
That comes though true repentance and forgiveness from GOD , Salvation is only of God though Jesus CHRIST
I honestly do not believe it can be found here in this world but can only be found in a true relationship with our LORD AND HOLY FATHER
free from swelled up falsity of knowledge , it does apply to us also , even more so ,as we learn righteousness though the teaching of the WORD by the Holy Spirit though obedience , it has always been a spirit of rebellion that causes us to stumble .
I do agree it is the pride of life that is the fatal flaw and deadly wound needing to be healed by JESUS .
1 John 2 Do Not Love the World
15Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world? the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life? is not from the Father but from the world. 17The world is passing away, along with its desires; but whoever does the will of God remains forever.?
HOW DO WE OVERCOME THE WORLD ?
Jesus said be of good cheer I HAVE OVERCOME THE WORLD , Greater is He that is in you than in the world ....our Living and giving vine of life , full of truth and grace . we must ask and even beg if need to . ask (JESUS ) earnestly and humbly for something.
John 8:32
And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the one and only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 1:17
For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
John 8:36
So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.
Romans 6:18
You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
Romans 6:22
But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the fruit you reap leads to holiness, and the outcome is eternal life.
Romans 8:2
For in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life has set you free from the law of sin and death.
1 Corinthians 7:22
For he who was a slave when he was called by the Lord is the Lord's freedman. Conversely, he who was a free man when he was called is Christ's slave.
2 Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
Galatians 5:1
It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not be encumbered once more by a yoke of slavery.
Galatians 5:13
For you, brothers, were called to freedom; but do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh. Rather, serve one another in love.
James 1:25
But the one who looks intently into the perfect law of freedom, and continues to do so--not being a forgetful hearer, but an effective doer--he will be blessed in what he does.
James 2:12
Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the Law that gives freedom.
1 Peter 2:16
Live in freedom, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God
Being spoon fed lies and tricks of falsity is Babylons course and works of doing .
the tickling of the ears and grande schemes and herd mentality .
If a blind man leads others into a ditch/pit they all fall from grace ............
teaching men so
Matt 5 The Fulfillment of the Law
?18For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.?
Matthew 11:11
Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has risen no one greater than John the Baptist. Yet even the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
James 2:10
Whoever keeps the whole Law but stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.
1 John 3:4
Everyone who practices sin practices lawlessness as well. Indeed, sin is lawlessness.
It is a very HIGH STANDARD And impossible to keep with words without the works also .
The works can only be done by the Holy Spirit working in us . we have none of our own , only obedience works though faith in GOD
To me it can only be achieved from asking and listening and believing with a simple and honest come clean attitude .
a surrender of desire to only please GOD and not any other motive can do those works .
it is a daily process that can cause the new man of the heart to be renewed and grow in truth and grace being our reality
truth and grace though Jesus Christ being the WORD spoken that judges us all . John 12 ,
Belief and Unbelief is what will determine our reality or truth ..
?47As for anyone who hears My words and does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I have not come to judge the world, but to save the world. 48There is a judge for the one who rejects Me and does not receive My words:
The word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day. 49I have not spoken on My own, but the Father who sent Me has commanded Me what to say and how to say it.?
Quote from: rosered on November 15, 2020, 06:15:03 PM
It is a daily process that can cause the new man of the heart to be renewed and grow in truth and grace being our reality
truth and grace though Jesus Christ being the WORD spoken that judges us all .
Exactly why we are to die daily, as Paul said. To take up the cross as Christ said.
1 Cor 15;31 " I affirm by the pride in you that I have in Christ Jesus our Lord; I die every day."
This after his pointing out earlier in vs 10 of chapter 15;
" But by God's grace I am what I am, and His grace toward me is not ineffective.
However, I worked more than any of them, Yet not I, but God's grace that was with me."
I.M.O this is saying that he recognises that his position is Christ's work, not his.
Heb 4;8-11 " For if Joshua had given them rest he would not have spoken concerning another day.
Hence there is left over a Sabbath-keeping for the people of God.
For he that has entered into his rest has rested from his works just as God rested from His own. Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that rest, lest anyone fall into the same example of obstinacy."
Amazing how many wars/crusades have happened claiming to be ordained by God.
This I.M.O is because people are trying to convince themselves that their works are for God.
This being pretty much the opposite of the pioneers of the gospel as they at no point made war to win anyone over to Christ or to claim any territory for God.
I recall trying to claim earthly territories from heavenly spirits. All to do the work of Christ.
I have since been convinced that Christ covered everything and everyone.
I.M.O we were made in the flesh so that we learn there are consequences for choices. Learn responsibility for action.
Yep we make mistakes, but they are necessary to broaden our understanding.
I.M.O the appreciation for Christ and what He did, and will do, grows as I rest from my words/efforts.
Now there is a confidence and peace which is hard to describe in earthly terms. His love never fails is an awesome reality.
2 Cor 4;7 " And we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God and NOT of us."
After all, before the world began He knew us.
I am sorry I am putting this up here on Juggs thread , but for the sake of sounding insane here
I love what you shared Ross , and know that the Holy Spirit is teaching me to wait on the Lord for many months now , I decided not to speak out , but for the sake of sharing to those with hears to hear what the Spirit is saying , I BELIEVE
and what many others are trying to express also , here it is .
I know that to the pure all things are pure , but to the defiled ,Are those whom used the LAW unlawfully
for their own greedy gain and to crush others with that LAW of SIN = DEATH
they teach death , but those whom know that Jesus Christ defeated death on the cross for all sin for all time , died for the sins of the whole world , will refuse to judge anyone that are slaves to sin ,and sin in the flesh , no flesh pleases God never has nd never will , it is the Esau curse that even though he cried out with tears , God was never going to accept those fleshly desires of the heart , but now being set free from the law of sin and death , now rather explain the law of freedom though Jesus Christ victory and how he has also raised us from the dead ,because we hear His voice , likened to the metaphor of John 12 Lazarus means whom GOD helps , that help is the new man in Christ that was freed from the law of sin and death by living according to that law and judging others and self condemnation defiles the good works of the Holy Spirit in everyone !
I will say this , for the sake of sounding insane ,
the greatest example I saw was when the Jews were put to death during world war 2 by Hitler , the beast shall hate the Whore . God gave the Jewish nation the law of sin and death and they died by that law openly , for the world to see and also a remembrance / example .
I see the very same thing getting ready to happen all over again with all the rest of the nations also given the same law and becoming the same spirit of pride and Babylon spirit that brought death to them also .
Till Christ comes again will He find faith in the earth ?
Because in 70 ad , 70 years of after Christ we saw the first exposure to this destruction of Jerusalem , same as in world war 2 same destruction of the peoples the temples of Jerusalem and now once again were are fixing to see the same results
its says the saints are overcome , that is the HOLY ONES , not the flesh and blood people , but the crushing of the faith in GOD though the spirits that have been misled into death and not life though HER heavens .......
the queen of heaven is that curse of idol worshipping and NOT Believing in the Son of GOD as the WAY GOD MADE FOR US AND THE TRUTH GOD HAS BROUGHT FORTH AND THE LIFE HE GAVE US TO LIVE FOR HIM . Being the ruler of the heavens and earth and even below ...
Jeremiah 7:18 ESV
The children gather wood, the fathers kindle fire, and the women knead dough, to make cakes for the queen of heaven. And they pour out drink offerings to other gods, to provoke me to anger...
She is the same Babylonian spirit of Gen 11 , now we see here that in Titus wow!!
titus 1 Correcting False Teachers
?14and will pay no attention to Jewish myths or to the commands of men who have rejected the truth. 15To the pure, all things are pure; but to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure. Indeed, both their minds and their consciences are defiled. 16They profess to know God, but by their actions they deny Him. They are detestable, disobedient, and unfit for any good deed.?
here we have Paul formerly Saul whom was under the law of sin and death but was picked by JESUS WHILE in the Spirit already to teach him the truth and life and whom would suffer many things for His names sake , the world hates those whom LOVE GOD and want to put them mouths to silence and death ...
Where, O Death, is Your Victory?
?55?Where, O Death, is your victory? Where, O Death, is your sting?? 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ!?
Romans 3:20
Therefore no one will be justified in His sight by works of the Law. For the Law merely brings awareness of sin.
Romans 4:15
because the Law brings wrath. And where there is no law, there is no transgression.
Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, so also death was passed on to all men, because all sinned.
Romans 7:8
But sin, seizing its opportunity through the commandment, produced in me every kind of covetous desire. For apart from the Law, sin is dead.
sin is dead when the law of Liberty though Jesus Christ is alive and makes us free from that law , we are to touch not taste not or handle that law ever again for as we judge so shall we be judged by the same LAW of sin and death
dying daily is a two edged SWORD / WORD that applies to us all during the teaching of righteousness in Jesus Christ
To me our greatest hope is in prayer that God hears us and makes a way that has no other way of escaping this worlds wrath against GOD and GODS wrath against sin and the plagues and vials and woes that are being poured out to make us all humbled
by the weight of it ... overcoming the world means trusting in GODS desire till the end and letting GOD save us all .......
our cross is to also go silent before our accusers , that voice of satan that is an adversary against LIFE /LOVE /GOD
REVELATION to me explains the course and is a key of understanding what the DAY OF THE LORD is and really means for it to go down as such , because our faith will be tested like no other time except as the times of great troubles , shown in 70 ad and the time of the Jewish nation under the power of Hitler's reign , they consumed them with fire and with hate
we are to not hold any thing against anyone for being different than what we believe , because we are judging sin and sin has a sting of death in it causing our own demise and shame !
this is what I believe and am being taught as of now and thought it was worth sharing , let us all come to the place of
Gods saving grace though Jesus Christ the anointed and appointed ONE to fulfill all things of heaven and earth and even below .philippians 2 ;10 DARBY
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of heavenly and earthly and infernal [beings],
Eph 1
?9And He has made known to us the mystery of His will according to His good pleasure, which He purposed in Christ 10as a plan for the fullness of time, to bring all things in heaven and on earth together in Christ. 11In Him we were also chosen as God?s own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything by the counsel of His will,?
Mark 1:15
"The time is fulfilled," He said, "and the kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe in the gospel!"
Ephesians 3:2
Surely you have heard about the stewardship of God's grace that was given to me for you,
Ephesians 3:15
from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name.
Philippians 2:9
Therefore God exalted Him to the highest place and gave Him the name above all names,
Philippians 2:10
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
Colossians 1:16
For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.
It is a promise of God that will be done !! I can only hope to be found worthy to express my own gratitude towards HIM and glorify God as HE IS WORTHY OF ALL PRAISE .........
Hey Rose, you don't have to apologize for putting it up on my thread, the whole point to this thread was to get people to think, and the things you say DO THAT.
Many blessings
Quote from: jugghead on November 20, 2020, 04:42:38 AM
Hey Rose, you don't have to apologize for putting it up on my thread, the whole point to this thread was to get people to think, and the things you say DO THAT.
Many blessings
Yes Brother ! LOVE IN ACTION =Works of faith being fulfilled in CHRIST .
That Holy anointing of the WORD & Holy Spirit in agreement .
Quote from: rosered on November 17, 2020, 07:42:45 PM
I know that to the pure all things are pure , but to the defiled ,Are those whom used the LAW unlawfully for their own greedy gain and to crush others with that LAW of SIN = DEATH
They teach death ;
but those whom know that Jesus Christ defeated death on the cross for all sin for all time ,
died for the sins of the whole world ,
will refuse to judge anyone that are slaves to sin ,and sin in the flesh ,
no flesh pleases God never has and never will .
it is the Esau curse that even though he cried out with tears , God was never going to accept those fleshly desires of the heart.
But now,
being set free from the law of sin and death , now rather explains the law of freedom though Jesus Christ victory and how he has also raised us from the dead ,because we hear His voice , likened to the metaphor of John 12 Lazarus means whom GOD helps , that help is the new man in Christ that was freed from the law of sin and death.
By living according to that law and judging others and self condemnation defiles the good works of the Holy Spirit in everyone !
This is pretty much the summary of the whole shebang.
Quote from: rosered on November 17, 2020, 07:42:45 PM
It is a promise of God that will be done !! I can only hope to be found worthy to express my own gratitude towards HIM and glorify God as HE IS WORTHY OF ALL PRAISE .........
Christ has made you worthy.
Appreciating Him to the full is a sacrifice of self that recognizes His work as comprehensive. His timing and development of your awareness/understanding speak volumes about why we are here, and where we are going to be in the future.
Thanks to Christ we are children of God.
Hello Brother Ross ,
I can only say that God is using the Holy Spirit to refine many scriptures and teachings in the WORD , we keep in our hearts for the right time to clarify them for us , He alone is faithful just and true .
Strange things are happening right now for many , the refining process by the Holy Spirit , through the stumbling and causing us to rise and stand in the TRUTH with that little help . spoken of in Daniel 11
Many of the scriptures that remained obscure are now coming to Light and connecting in ways we never thought possible
The study of the two witnesses a brother brought up , made me search and recall and seek and until it is settled in your heart securely and steadfastly without any wavering of doubts , we still struggle wit the Truth GODS reality for us all .
I have believed the LORD is teaching us all by HIS testimony and witness and it is of upmost importance to understand these strange and uncertain times we are in ..
THINGS we thought were important are just falling away and never mattered and yet we clung to them .
the Holy Spirit is in POWER for sure right now and is going to be making all the difference .
the WORD IS COMING ALIVE IN POWER BY GODS HOLY SPIRIT AND MANIFESTING TRUTH TO all whom will believe in HIM .
I was thrilled to finally understand with certainty and thankful for the simple truth
Jesus Christ testimony is the Very Spirit of prophecy and every answer is in HIS WORD
and only given by the HOLY SPIRIT ..
I hope to share these findings soon if God is willing . and am both excited to learn of Him and fear the Lord also , both are an important part of growing in truth and grace ,
I have to learn to forgive much better than in times past , everyone for everything to be found worthy
Forgiving is a major part of letting go and letting God DO HIS PERFECT WORK in all things . vengeance is the LORDS AND He repays as we wait on the LORD in a safe place of His choosing .
we all have our own personal stories to tell of God dealing with us and all I can say is WOW ,when we actually obey and examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith of Our Lord Jesus Christ, what an eye opener this journey has been so far ............
The convicting and convincing, chastening and confirming every little thing and comparing them to His Word of Life
the struggles are real and the rewards are our truth /reality .
LOVE really does overcome the world our HOPE is kept alive though faith in HIM ..
Overcoming the world means that you are no longer controlled by the things of this world.
Those waters that cause us to stumble and faint and doubt , You are no longer moved by what happens around you but you are only moved by what God says to you through His word and His Spirit, and become joyful in knowing this ,because you are saved by HIM AND THOUGH HIM AND FOR HIM .
, only the LORD CAN WALK ON THE WATERS FROM BELOW BY THE WATERS /MANY VOICES /WATERS from ABOVE with Him in you and you in Him and the Father .
John 14 Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit
?19In a little while the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you also will live.
20On that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you are in Me, and I am in you.
21Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him.??
Who so ever is born of God overcomes the world?
1 John 5:4, ESV: "For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world?our faith."
the new creature in Christ hidden in the heart has become strong in the LORD , for greater is He that is in you than in the world .
GOD WITH US , IMMANUEL His name ?Emmanuel? means you are never alone or without His presence. ... God himself is always with you. Hebrews 13:5-6 tell us, ?? for He hath said, I will never leave you, nor forsake you.
Quote from: rosered on November 23, 2020, 08:03:36 PM
Hello Brother Ross ,
I can only say that God is using the Holy Spirit to refine many scriptures and teachings in the WORD , we keep in our hearts for the right time to clarify them for us , He alone is faithful just and true .
Amen! :dsunny:
Wanted to post what I wrote in another thread here.
My viewpoint of:
"The Second Death"
To expand on what I believe, for me, an understanding of "the second death" is our first death if it happens before our physical body dies. That the LOF is His purification process that we can go through either before our physical body dies or after. And that the purification process is our "way of thinking" being changed, which is why I believe Paul says, "be transformed by the renewing of the mind".
What I mean by this is two fold, first that if we still see ourselves as one with our physical body, upon its death we still believe that we die, but when that "way of thinking" is changed, we come to realize we have been separated from this physical body, I am still in my physical body but I am not of my physical body, which can be understood through "I am in this world but I am not of this world". We no longer view the death of our physical body as we ourselves dying, we are the spirit (breath) inside a body, we now see the death of our physical body as the means of transferring our spirit from the physical existence into the spiritual existence.
In short, when my physical body dies, I do not, I no longer view the death of my physical body as death, just a transfer of my spirit from one place to another.
and second, that our way of thinking is one of: if we are still, even partially connected to our physical body, in other words, still even partially connected to the flesh in our mind, we see ourselves as dying twice, first we see ourselves as dying when the physical body dies and also we see ourselves dying in the LOF which is the rest of the purification process. Which is why I believe that the words "appointed once to die" doesn't make sense to a lot of people. I myself believe that this term "appointed once to die" only has to do with the fact that EVERYONE will go into the LOF, into the purification process.
But if our way of thinking has changed about the physical death of our body, that it is a transfer of our spirit from one place to another, the second death has no power on us, simply because our mind has already been renewed on this aspect and we welcome the rest of the process.
Which for me, if we are no longer connected to any fleshly way of thinking we no longer see the LOF like a lake of fire in a physical sense, we see it for what it truly is, entering into Christ. For me, our way of thinking determines how we see, either as an "it" (the LOF) or a person (The Father and Son as ONE).
Why the Physical?
To expand on this brief article title, it is to say,
"Why did God create the physical universe?" We know that there has to be a reason, correct? But before I dive into
why I believe He did, I would like to show you something that has already happened in what I have written already.
What I am talking about is "expansion". What I mean by this is, we have the question "why the physical?", which is the title of the article, now we see an expansion of that question, done by writing "Why did God create the physical universe?".
Now let's actually see what happened by another example. I will use a framed painting as the example. When we are quite a distance from the painting, we can tell that it is a picture, and we judge that by seeing the frame around the picture, but we are still a distance from it, and we cannot tell what it is a picture of. As we move closer, we start to see the picture take form, but we still cannot tell whether it is a photograph or a painting. It isn't until we get quite a bit closer that we can tell, when we get really close, we see the brush marks in the painting.
The question "why the physical" is like being quite a distance from the painting; it is a small understanding. Now the question "Why did God create the physical universe?", is an expansion of the first question, and it is expanded by adding more words to it. It is by adding more words to it that the question itself becomes clearer, and what I mean by that is, it is better understood. We have a larger understanding of the question. So, in conclusion, we can understand that by the adding of words, we get a clearer understanding of the question.
The reason for this is to understand that things can take place that are not always obvious. Our mind can register a change, but do we stop and think about the change, or do we just move on with what we are reading? Another thing that happened in the last paragraph is the use of the words "larger" and "clearer", they have become synonyms, but only because they have been used "in the context" of "moving closer".
There are so many things that take place while we are reading and our mind just keeps moving on, not slowing down to see a clearer picture. Now I have to ask, even though we keep moving, are we getting closer to the picture, meaning are we getting a better understanding? The reason I ask this question is because, seeing something from a different viewpoint, a different perspective can result in seeing that, even though we are constantly moving, does not necessarily mean we are moving closer to the object we want a clearer picture of.
Here is an example, just because the earth is constantly moving, does not mean it is getting closer to the sun, it is orbiting the sun. In other words, it is moving sideways in relation to the sun.
Now if our Lord Christ Jesus is the sun and we are the earth, are we moving closer to Christ or are we moving sideways, always the same distance from Him, but not getting closer to Him?
We can read the Bible as much as we want, and we may be doing just that, but do we see ourselves getting closer to Christ or just constantly moving? Just like the sun, Christ is the center of our beliefs. I now want you to picture our earth as your beliefs. Just like the planet revolves/orbits around the sun, our beliefs revolve around Christ.
Now, since the earth is made up of physical matter, do we see that our beliefs can be of the physical nature, which can also be understood as "the flesh nature". And if the earth had a decaying orbit, causing it to get closer to the sun, it eventually would burn up. So, in the same way, as we are getting closer to Christ, is our flesh nature being burned away?
And in the same sense, if the earth is "our understanding", if it is our understanding of the flesh nature being burned up as we move closer to Christ, doesn't it stand to reason that we can better understand ourselves by the physical aspects around us?
As you have been reading, have you noticed that the earth has been example of "us", it has been an example of "our beliefs", it has been an example of "the physical nature", it has been an example of "the flesh nature", it has been an example of "our understanding"; and "our understanding of the flesh nature". Do we understand all these examples as true happenings as we draw closer to Christ?
So, it is at this point I have to ask, has God connected all this in your mind? Have you had the revelation that the reason God created the physical is to better understand ourselves and who we are? And to better understand our own journey, our own walk, in relation to Christ? To better understand God and who He is and what He is doing and how He is doing it? Would this not be a perfect example of the verse,
"For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints."? (1 Corinthians 14:33). So now it begs the question; Do things confuse you? And if so, why are you confused? Is not confusion a condition of not knowing what the actual truth is? I truly believe so. And if God is not the author of confusion, who is? Who do you go to, to hear the truth? Do they bring you peace in their understanding or just more confusion?
It is my belief that peace comes from "knowing" the truth. If you are at peace with what you know, but confusion is always still present in your heart and mind, does it not stand to reason that the confusion will burn up, the closer you get to God?
Most people are happy with what they know and what they believe, and I have no judgments towards them simply because of what I have already written. Just like the earth and the sun have a relationship in this solar system, so do others and they don't even know it.
For me, I was given a hunger to know the truth, it was an insatiable hunger that I had to feed. For others, they have not been given this hunger yet, do not be discouraged if you have not received it. You will receive it, whether in this physical life or in the spiritual life that is to come, what I mean by that is, you will receive it before your physical body dies or you will receive it after your physical body dies.
Even the apostle Paul understood this in his first letter to Timothy;
"Who will have all men to be saved, and come unto the knowledge of the truth." (1 Timothy 2:4).It is my opinion that what we are being saved from is our own ignorance of the truth, our own lack of understanding of the truth. I will say it once more and it is worthwhile to be repeated, the reason God created the physical universe is to understand everything spiritual, it is why I believe God rested on the seventh day, He had created everything we need to understand, in order to understand everything spiritual.
Which brings to mind,
"The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. (Ecclesiastes 1:9).Which I believe can be understood this way;
"The thing that hath been (a physical understanding outside of us)
it is that which shall be (a spiritual understanding inside of us)
; and that which is done (God's creating of the physical outside of us)
is that which shall be done (the creating of the spiritual inside of us)
: and there is no new thing under the sun. (no need for any new physical examples).
And if all this makes sense to you and you believe it, it opens up the Bible in a way you never thought possible.
I love the analogy of Jesus as the sun, and us as the earth, and our understanding.. As we orbit him closer, confusion, etc is burned up! That is a true inspiration/revelation!
I too have been blessed with wanting to know. Truth, all truth, nothing but. To understand what it is God is doing, and how, but most importantly why.
He is awesome! He is convincing all. Truth knocks our socks off!
:gsmile: