Why are we so frowned upon?

[misszoolander]

Hello brothers and sisters in Christ.
I do not know about you, but speaking for myself, when I discovered US, it was like finally seeing color for the first time. I cried with joy, and worshiped God truly (not out of fear) for the first time.
After studying and researching and telling people about the "good news" I have noticed that we are probably more frowned upon then Muslims, Buddhists possibly even Satanists. I often look at debate forums, and we get attacked with lines like "Stop taking the bible out of contexts, and stop believing this evil doctrine which is spun from Satan himself."

I have to admit my heart sinks a bit, and I often to pray to Jesus to give me assurance that I am on the right path.
It makes me wonder why traditional Christians despise us so much? I mean we believe the same thing, and to simplify it the only difference is we believe all men will be saved. We get our revelations from the bible, so it is not like we are producing this doctrine out of thin air..

It just hurts when our fellow sisters and brothers accuse us of spreading "Satan's lies". I know that I love Jesus, and God allot more then I ever have, and I now worship him because he is so wonderful, not out of fear, I can not see how that comes from Satan? I still ask Jesus for guidance every day, surely he would not lead me into false paths.

Why do I feel condemned from my fellow Christians?! it makes my heart heavy. 

[eaglesway]

Too often, the systematic theology of Christians is their god and their veil.

But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
(2Co 3:15-18)


The doctrines are like graven images to worship. They are also like towers and strongholds exalting against themselves against the true knowledge of God.

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
(2Co 4:3-7)

The god of this world has veiled their minds and he will fight the gospel tooth and nail because it sets people free- free indeed. We therefore, preach not ourselves, but Christ and Him crucified- for all, and hope that the doctrine of the restoration of all does not become and idol as well for us :o)

[Lazarus Short]

I've been accused of pushing the "doctrines of devils" too.  I chalk it up to ingrained thinking and cognitive dissonance.  The Good News is just too good, and a lot of folks would prefer to see most of humanity cast into Hell - but not them, of course.

[ded2daworld]

Exactly Laz. Even my own loving wife but ET'er said she thanks God there is a hell for the shooter in Conneticut while praying for the salvation of her circle of friends and family - cuz they are going there too according to her. I asked if she thought it was fair for her grandsons to end up in the same place as the shooter but she said NO but it isn't fair that the shooter would be with them in heaven either. I asked, is it fair that any of us will be in heaven?

[sheila]

ASK HER WHAT SHE THINKS JESUS WORDS TO LOVE YOUR ENEMIES MEANS?

[ded2daworld]

Answer: the old saw about "if someone breaks into our house to kill and rob us, then I'm just supposed to offer them coffee before they do it or stop them and kill them if I have to?" (She is a crack shot. I've never held a gun in my hand.)

[sheila]

LOL! SHE'S A SHARP SHOOTER ALRIGHT! SOUNDS LIKE YOU GOT YOUR HANDS FULL!

     i HAVE A 410 THAT i REBLUED AND REFINISHED 20 SOMETHING YEARS AGO....i BOUGHT IT

  AS A 'VARMENT' GUN ON THE FARM...TO SCARE OFF..SKUNKS..COYOTES ETC.. i USED TO

SHOOT CANS WITH IT OFF THE FENCE POST. i MOVED IN TOWN 5 YEARS AGO..AND HAVE NO BULLETS.

   i DID NOT BUY ANY AS MY GRAND-DAUGHTER IS SEVERE MENTAL ILL..AND SHARP KNIVES

  AND NO BULLETS/GUNS IN HOUSE WAS INSTRUCTED[SUICIDAL]

[ded2daworld]

I guess I should have pointed out that under ET, the teachers and the students that were "old enough to understand about Jesus" but hadn't "accepted him as Lord were going to be eternally tortured along with the shooter.

[Lazarus Short]

Exactly Laz. Even my own loving wife but ET'er said she thanks God there is a hell for the shooter in Conneticut while praying for the salvation of her circle of friends and family - cuz they are going there too according to her. I asked if she thought it was fair for her grandsons to end up in the same place as the shooter but she said NO but it isn't fair that the shooter would be with them in heaven either. I asked, is it fair that any of us will be in heaven?

It occurs to me that the Westboro Baptist Church is following the logic of Hell to its inevitable conclusion.  Wen I lived in Kansas City, I took an interest in WBC, partly because they were in nearby Topeka, and partly because the head of the church, Fred Phelps, was such an interesting case.  Seems he was a mean, hardbitten Kansas lawyer, who was so mean to witnesses and so adversarial, that he got himself disbarred.  Now, they do their outrageous picketing, and if someone punches a WBC member, or busts up one of their vans, they sue.  That is how they support themselves.  It's little more than a scam...

[eaglesway]

They are like a synagogue of Satan, having a name that they live, but they minister death. They even go beyond the logical conclusion of the hell message because even most ET belioevers would understand, "Weep with those who weep. mourn with those who mourn".

[sheila]

  SPIRITUAL MONSTERS.........

[sheila]

.....GOOD EXAMPLE of the man of lawlessness sitting in the temple of God.....

.......guess their counterfiet signs of hate at these protests..will have to do[frankly i expected more]

[misszoolander]

I had an interesting discussion with my Uncle, who said he thinks hell is what the sinners choose, they choose darkness over light, so for eternity they will be in darkness. He does not think they will be burning in hell for eternity, but they are eternally separated from God because they choose to be. "The gates of hell are locked from the inside" mentality. Everything that God is, pure, love, good these sinners purposely deprive themselves of it in the spiritual realm thus creating their own hell.

After thinking about what he said, I couldn't help but think about Paul, how a man that hated Jesus loved him with one flash of God's blinding light. Yes, Paul out of his own free will made the decision to do Gods will, but it was only after God blinded him, and he got to experience the awesome power of God. If Paul a person who hated Christ could be changed in the blink of an eye why can't other non believers? I can not imagine anyone after death facing God and saying "I do not believe! I do not accept!" Honestly I think God's love and power are too inescapable to even consider that. Imagine experiencing God truly for the first time, everything you have felt or believed towards him would fade away, you are faced with the creator of the universe, I doubt people would still choose seclusion. That's where I believe our gift of free will comes into play, because we have felt darkness, and the consequences of sin, we can now truly glorify God, not because we are robots, but because we know with every fiber of our being that he is good, he is the light, and how much more does the light shine brighter after being in a world of darkness!

My search for US came when I stumbled across a video "Why babies go to hell" and it was a Pastor explaining that babies baptized or not plainly go to hell, and burn forever. He was talking about how infants scream in pools of molten lava, while the saints in heaven watch and rejoice. Unfortunately when I watched this I thought Of Devon, my sister's 13 month old boy who drowned tragically just weeks ago.

After much praying, and reflecting and reading my bible I knew that this simply can not be true, and I prayed to God to reveal the truth to me, because I found it extremely hard to love a God whole heartily who would send people into fire to be tortured forever, and he revealed the truth to me, and my heart rejoiced, however the pain of people calling me Satan's servant, or people condemning others to hell cuts me like a knife. The real kicker comes in when they condemn me to hell for believing this so called evil doctrine. Apparently I am on the slippery slopes of the fiery pit. Strength Lord Jesus! Give us strength!

You are right Eagle, US or ET shouldn't be our idols, Jesus should be number one. Sometimes we tend to forget the big picture, before Heaven was my Idol, not God. Now Jesus is my Idol, but I need to be careful that US does not override that.

[rjohnson741]

I had an interesting discussion with my Uncle, who said he thinks hell is what the sinners choose, they choose darkness over light, so for eternity they will be in darkness. He does not think they will be burning in hell for eternity, but they are eternally separated from God because they choose to be. "The gates of hell are locked from the inside" mentality. Everything that God is, pure, love, good these sinners purposely deprive themselves of it in the spiritual realm thus creating their own hell.

After thinking about what he said, I couldn't help but think about Paul, how a man that hated Jesus loved him with one flash of God's blinding light. Yes, Paul out of his own free will made the decision to do Gods will, but it was only after God blinded him, and he got to experience the awesome power of God. If Paul a person who hated Christ could be changed in the blink of an eye why can't other non believers? I can not imagine anyone after death facing God and saying "I do not believe! I do not accept!" Honestly I think God's love and power are too inescapable to even consider that. Imagine experiencing God truly for the first time, everything you have felt or believed towards him would fade away, you are faced with the creator of the universe, I doubt people would still choose seclusion. That's where I believe our gift of free will comes into play, because we have felt darkness, and the consequences of sin, we can now truly glorify God, not because we are robots, but because we know with every fiber of our being that he is good, he is the light, and how much more does the light shine brighter after being in a world of darkness!

My search for US came when I stumbled across a video "Why babies go to hell" and it was a Pastor explaining that babies baptized or not plainly go to hell, and burn forever. He was talking about how infants scream in pools of molten lava, while the saints in heaven watch and rejoice. Unfortunately when I watched this I thought Of Devon, my sister's 13 month old boy who drowned tragically just weeks ago.

After much praying, and reflecting and reading my bible I knew that this simply can not be true, and I prayed to God to reveal the truth to me, because I found it extremely hard to love a God whole heartily who would send people into fire to be tortured forever, and he revealed the truth to me, and my heart rejoiced, however the pain of people calling me Satan's servant, or people condemning others to hell cuts me like a knife. The real kicker comes in when they condemn me to hell for believing this so called evil doctrine. Apparently I am on the slippery slopes of the fiery pit. Strength Lord Jesus! Give us strength!

You are right Eagle, US or ET shouldn't be our idols, Jesus should be number one. Sometimes we tend to forget the big picture, before Heaven was my Idol, not God. Now Jesus is my Idol, but I need to be careful that US does not override that.

"The gates of hell are locked from the inside" was a quote from C.S. Lewis a well known theologian. He believed a person is in hell because they chose to go there. He believed a person could leave hell anytime they so choose or desired. He believed they choose to stay in hell because of their hatred for God, so they resist and reject God eternally. I don't believe this. I don't believe the self will of man can resist and reject forever the love of an All Powerful, and All Loving God who can demostrate His love to them in an endless array of ways. I believe the Love and Grace of God will eventually melt the hardened hearts of even the most evil and wicked persons. If God can draw Saul of Tarsus, the chief of sinners to himself, it just seems logical God can draw all mankind to Himself. And that's excatly what God says He will do---"And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, WILL DRAW ALL MEN UNTO ME" John 12:32. God will not force mankind to Himself, God will draw all mankind to Himself through His Love and Grace expressed in the power of the Cross(Colossians 1:20; John 12:32).

[eaglesway]

I was very deeply moved by your testimony. Yes, Jesus is number one- Praise God for that, for it is the key to why WE are US :o)

Col 1:15-20
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn( #1 :declare:) of all creation. For by Him all things were created,

both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been

created through Him and for Him( #1 :gimmefive:). He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together( #1 :myahoo:). He is

also head of the body, the church( #1 :egyptdance:); and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will

come to have first place in everything( #1 :trampoline:). For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to

dwell in Him,  and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross;

through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

[misszoolander]

Thank you Eagle  :dsunny:

I now look back on Devon, and rejoice for he was Gods gift. It's no longer hard to see pictures of him, or to wonder if he is OK.
Praise Jesus that he died for all, that he saved all, even this little boy, who never got a chance in this life to hear the good news.

Matthew 19:14 Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

Thank you Jesus for helping this blind person see  :HeartThrob:

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[ded2daworld]

Yeah, the number one ET excuse is to say "God didn't send them to hell, they sent themselves there."
As if every person in the world had the same opportunity to know the REAL God but chose darkness instead.
Personally, I had such little respect for the "christians" I had encountered that I believe that God literally DID drag me kicking, screaming, protesting - because I believed in spite of my desires. God made me do it, I didn't want to or choose to.

[sheila]

Rev 3;7  these are the words of him who is holy and true....what he shuts no-one can open..

  and what he opens no-one can shut......Rev 22  on no day will it's gates ever be shut.......

   the Spirit and the bride say,'Come!!'

[Lazarus Short]

misszoolander, I know how you feel, at least a little, for my daughter almost drowned when she was a toddler. 

Reading various posts today, I realized that there is a BIG disconnect between "God loves you, and has a wonderful plan for your life," Irresistible Grace, Jesus Saves, etc., and Eternal Torture in Hell.  The skeptics and scoffers see this more clearly than the average Christian, I think. 

Theology which contradicts itself does not attract the lost.

[ded2daworld]

Laz said, "Theology which contradicts itself does not attract the lost."

Absolutely right. :thumbsup:

[Paul L]

Laz said, "Theology which contradicts itself does not attract the lost."

Absolutely right. :thumbsup:

And it's precisely for this reason there is such a large contingent of unchurched Christians in my generation today (baby boomers). They're becoming better educated about the origins of Christian theology, and others. They're learning ancient historic texts often do not support dictates proferred in their Catechism & Sunday School classes.  Their math & reading skills are better, and they've become fed up with established dogmatists trying to prop up failed theology.

[ded2daworld]

IMO, The internet has changed everything. Information is available to almost all. In countries with widespread computer use, cult membership is failing, rather than rising as it did for the past 150 years. Even leaders are finding it harder to indoctrinate the masses. Those of us believing in UR would have few to talk to about it.

[Rhodes]

Hey everyone,
the number one reason why we are frowned upon is....
Because this message seriously destroys Churchianity, and the never-ending works that go on to save the lost before they burn forever.
If we take Hell away from them, what will they do!!!!!?
Why bother following Jesus if there is no Hell to fear?
Why bother praying for the sinners if they will all be saved anyway?
Why bother with any of the church stuff if fear of hell is taken away?
"You mean...the only motivation is LOVE?!"  :eek:
You mean... I will not be banished to Hell if I miss church this Sunday?  :eek:
You mean...God loves people so much that he plans to save them all?  :laughing7:
:banana: :dsunny:

[ded2daworld]

Hey Rhodes those 3 why's you brought out above are exactly what my ET wife says to me concerning UR. She feels that people won't "get in line" and "straighten up" without that threat.

"If you "get in line" and "straighten up" you can't have a group hug or get to know more than a couple of people."
                                                                                                                - Jeff Smith

[eaglesway]

They won't get in line and straighten up without that threat, but they might fall in love with the beauty of God when they see what Jesus really did. Then you won't have to beat them into line all the time :o)