Why are we so frowned upon?

[mplsfitter539]

I was just reading a book or article called "Has our tradition failed God". This one statement hit me so hard with truth I saved it to my clippings on my kindle. Here is the statement: "The doctrine of the restitution of all things is to the Church what the call of the Gentiles was to Israel". When I read this I sat back and thought about it a bit and it is so true that the Jews would not except the Gentiles as equals and the Church feels the same way today.

[ded2daworld]

On the other hand, when God takes a drug addict or a whoremonger and saves him,
if he toes the line of doctrine, he will be esteemed as "greater than" they and asked to speak
at churches and conferences. The worse a sinner you were, the more modern christians want to hear your story
of salvation. :Peace2:

[lomarah]

Yes eaglesway you could be right there.

Thank God we have the true hope... I don't know where I'd be without it!!

[sheila]

Blessed are those who do not see and believe...[those who die as drug addicts,whoremasters and are

  saved..in the unseen realms]

[sheila]

mpls.  yes..it has...this is the message of reconciliation...'THAT GOD WAS RECONCILING THE WORLD TO HIMSELF

AND NOT COUNTING  MEN'S  SINS AGAINST  THEM" 2 COR5;19.....

[sheila]

 THE CHURCHES WERE OVERCOME...BOTH ISRAEL AS A NATION AND  BELIEVERS..GENTILES.

  DANIEL..THE SAINTS WERE OVERCOME...AND I WILL TELL YOU WHY GOD ALLOWED THIS....

THAT NO FLESH SHOULD BOAST.  AND JUST AS ISRAEL BEING BLINDED MEANT GRACE UNTO

THE GENTILES..THE GENTILE GOSPEL BEING OVERCOME MEANS GRACE TO ALL MEN[UNBELIEVERS]

  FOR HE HAS CALLED US OUT OF THE OVERCOME CHURCHES[BABYLON] TO DECLARE THE SALVATION

  OF ALL MEN..  FOR HE HAS BOUND ALL MEN OVER TO SIN..IN ORDER TO SHOW GRACE TO ALL

   THERE SHALL BE NO 'CHURCH' BOASTING WHAT THEY HAVE DONE..SAYING 'THANK YOU THAT

I AM NOT LIKE THIS GUY OVER HERE'A SINNER'.  ALL MEN ARE SINNERS AND ALL MEN ARE SAVED

OF GOD'S GRACE.

  HE HAS SHOWN US STEP BY STEP   1...2...3

  HE HAS SAID..AS ALL HAVE BORE THE IMAGE OF THE CORRUPTIBLE ONE  SO TOO ALL SHALL BEAR

THE IMAGE OF THE INCORRUPTIBLE ONE.

SO THEN..EVEN THOUGH I MAY CONTEND FOR TRUTH WITH SOMEONE THAT MAY BE OVERCOME

OR IS NOT WHERE I AM AT SPIRITUAL..BE STILL IN UNBELIEF,CARNAL,BABE,CONFUSED.....I STILL CAN

NOT TAKE AWAY HIS SPIRITUAL INHERITANCE LAID UP FOR HIM OF GOD AND CHRIST..AND THOUGH

HE MAY APPEAR AS AN ENEMY FOR THE SAKE OF THE GOSPEL..ALL SHALL BE SAVED.

  IT IS A GIFT WITHOUT REPENTANCE ON GOD'S PART...LAID UP FOR ALL MEN

[dajomaco]

Therefore, the Jews began persecuting Jesus[e] because He was doing these things on the Sabbath. 17 But Jesus responded to them, "My Father is still working, and I am working also." 18 This is why the Jews began trying all the more to kill Him: Not only was He breaking the Sabbath, but He was even calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.

By the seventh day God completed His work that He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work that He had done.

For the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and everything in them in six days; then He rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and declared it holy.


4 Therefore, while the promise to enter His rest remains, let us fear that none of you should miss it.[a] 2 For we also have received the good news just as they did; but the message they heard did not benefit them, since they were not united with those who heard it in faith 3 (for we who have believed enter the rest), in keeping with what[c] He has said:

So I swore in My anger,
they will not enter My rest.[d]

And yet His works have been finished since the foundation of the world, 4 for somewhere He has spoken about the seventh day in this way:

And on the seventh day
God rested from all His works.[e]

5 Again, in that passage He says, They will never enter My rest.[f] 6 Since it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again, He specifies a certain day—today—speaking through David after such a long time, as previously stated:

Today, if you hear His voice,
do not harden your hearts.[g]

8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 Therefore, a Sabbath rest remains for God's people. 10 For the person who has entered His rest has rested from his own works, just as God did from His. 11 Let us then make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall into the same pattern of disobedience.

[sheila]

YOU KNOW dED2...WHEN iread your post it reminded something myfather said to me years ago....

when I was in a real legalistic church.[jw's] I become ill,was working a fulltime job and was married

to a man totally against jw's and suffered persecution from him continually[he used military mind control

techniques he learned in military to break my will to serve God an nearly drove me nuts in the process.]


well..I became seriously ill and was unable to attend all the meetings..and just could'nt bear up under it all

anymore. Physically or emotionaly.  and I was at Sunday wt study and public talk..and the elder's wife said..

  '  oooh...3 Sundays in a row".     I was telling my earthly father this..and he said..'well..it's a good thing

  your flesh finally wore out..or they would still have ye yoked up like an ox turning the millstone..and they

only want you to do all those things that they can boast in your flesh"  and he was soo right.  And this is the same

thing you speak of in your post....

[ded2daworld]

Thanks Sheila. When I first got dragged to the Lord, I heard testimony and speakers that had been rescued out of all sorts of evil practices and I almost wished more bad stuff had happened tome so my testimony would be "greater."  The closer I got to the Lord, the more I realized in HIS eyes I was just as much a sinner as the others. The only "advantage" after that seemed that "He who is forgiven little loves little while he that is forgiven much, loves much.
Now it seems the more I love, the more I see how very much I've been forgiven.

[sheila]

 :thumbsup:

[Lazarus Short]

I was just reading a book or article called "Has our tradition failed God". This one statement hit me so hard with truth I saved it to my clippings on my kindle. Here is the statement: "The doctrine of the restitution of all things is to the Church what the call of the Gentiles was to Israel". When I read this I sat back and thought about it a bit and it is so true that the Jews would not except the Gentiles as equals and the Church feels the same way today.

The Church hates universal reconciliation because it minimizes the status of the Church as the be-all and end-all of Christianity.  That is why we Tenties languish in the wilderness without churches, camp meetings, and all the rest.

[lomarah]

The wilderness is a much needed refuge for many of us I think.  :HeartThrob:

[Molly]

Indeed!


The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose.

--Isa 35:1

[reFORMer]

A lot of times people speak of the apostates in Babylon and call it "The Church."  This is an example of the names of blasphemy (Rv 17³,) names stolen from God and His people, and used deceptively.  Both doctrinally and practically this mystical Mother is false.  We who have been coming back to rebuild the temple are frowned upon with poisonous countenances, we are reviled and opposed because the false vine being assimilated into Babylon has fixed an idol in their hearts, an image of hatred and anger with an evil face that is supposed to never approve of the most of His own creation.  Yet beyond that He is the one who keeps them captive to pleasure Him with suffering as He inflicts on them never ceasing, never ending torture.  Intimacy with the true God, Whose end is mercy, Who delights in tender pity and loving kindness, has been changed into accommodation to other mediators.  Perceiving His Self revelation in glory, directly led of His Spirit, specially when we meet, transforms us into the same image.  But, instead of being the flesh of God in the earth, His Royal Priesthood to the rest of the world, the false brethren demand their enabling audiences submission unto an unscriptural elite.

My cup of wormwood overfloweth.

[eaglesway]

The seed sown in the wilderness will become the garden of the Lord.


A voice crying fron the wilderness.....

He makes the wilderness into a garden, and a desert into springs of water.....

[Rhodes]

I wonder how Miss Zoolander is going these days. It has been 2 years since she posted this thread? In those 2 years my wife and I continue to walk alone in the knowledge of God's great mercy and goodness, still being frowned upon, still being de-friended. One brother used to link to my other site on spiritual life, but took the link down because he said he "did not want his site polluted with Universalism." :dunno2:
Such is the cost of knowing God.

[rosered]

I wonder how Miss Zoolander is going these days. It has been 2 years since she posted this thread? In those 2 years my wife and I continue to walk alone in the knowledge of God's great mercy and goodness, still being frowned upon, still being de-friended. One brother used to link to my other site on spiritual life, but took the link down because he said he "did not want his site polluted with Universalism." :dunno2:
Such is the cost of knowing God.

  Dear Rhodes ,

  Yes,  forsaking all ,   to follow   and   to be found in Christ ,
I just  believe  most do not want to   put God in a box   , including  the universalist 
 
Any title    has its   pros and cons .
  I  have never  found any other     Forum or church  whom can   answer those  ''deep questions  of God , we all struggle  and wrestle with '' 
  But by the Universalist    camp   and   have  went  further   than any other  I have  found ,
  and even those sometimes are  still  leaving  ''room to grow in truth and grace '' . 

  Who  can Know  except what Gods Spirit of Wisdom    allows   anyone  to understand   or stumble with  ?
 

[marie glen]

  "why so frowned upon?" (they think what is being said is all roads/faiths lead to salvation)

this is why I want very badly to see a simple, brief answer for all such.. but it must be 100% true or it will not ring true to other's hearts and the circle will remain small.. (imo)

I know the perceived answer is 'hell is only short term' / agelasting - that has not clicked true in my spirit as a complete or sufficient answer

Jesus told the pharisees "unless you repent you will die in your sins" It's assumed this means all hope is lost.... but does it? surely to rise still in your sins is not as joyful a resurrection as the first resurrection

["..and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. This is the first resurrection. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished." from Rev 20:4,5]

..but  :sigh: I am not making much progress in communicating this vision of UR exploding (in a good way!) upon the world..

[Lazarus Short]

Jesus told the pharisees "unless you repent you will die in your sins" It's assumed this means all hope is lost.... but does it? surely to rise still in your sins is not as joyful a resurrection as the first resurrection

Jesus also told the pharisees that the prostitutes and tax-collectors would enter the Kingdom before they would.  Entry delayed but not denied, and things are in balance.  If we include everyone (all) in salvation, we should also include every relevant scripture which bears on a matter.  You must look at EVERY tree to see the forest.  Folks, the reason we are so scorned is that the ER and ED camps can only look at a few trees because they think there are no trees outside of their campsite.  :punish:

I hope my metaphor is not too stretched... :dunno2:

[WhiteWings]

  "why so frowned upon?" (they think what is being said is all roads/faiths lead to salvation)

In a way they do. But most are massive detours  :laugh:

[eaglesway]

They are listening to their Pharisees and Saducees, who love the high seats in the assemblies, and do not have time to listen to anyone who challenges their assumptions, which constitute the pedestals upon which they have placed themselves as the arbiters of truth and judgment.

They are afraid to incur eternal torment, or eternal destruction, with which they are threatened if they "open their ears" to listen to what the Spirit is saying through the scriptures.

They are more comfortable as judges than as ministers of reconciliation.

[Searching_For_The_Truth]

Hello brothers and sisters in Christ.
I do not know about you, but speaking for myself, when I discovered US, it was like finally seeing color for the first time. I cried with joy, and worshiped God truly (not out of fear) for the first time.
After studying and researching and telling people about the "good news" I have noticed that we are probably more frowned upon then Muslims, Buddhists possibly even Satanists. I often look at debate forums, and we get attacked with lines like "Stop taking the bible out of contexts, and stop believing this evil doctrine which is spun from Satan himself."

I have to admit my heart sinks a bit, and I often to pray to Jesus to give me assurance that I am on the right path.
It makes me wonder why traditional Christians despise us so much? I mean we believe the same thing, and to simplify it the only difference is we believe all men will be saved. We get our revelations from the bible, so it is not like we are producing this doctrine out of thin air..

It just hurts when our fellow sisters and brothers accuse us of spreading "Satan's lies". I know that I love Jesus, and God allot more then I ever have, and I now worship him because he is so wonderful, not out of fear, I can not see how that comes from Satan? I still ask Jesus for guidance every day, surely he would not lead me into false paths.

Why do I feel condemned from my fellow Christians?! it makes my heart heavy.

That's exactly how I feel at times. Just this morning I read an article where a preacher went to a college and homosexual protestors were chanting "Jesus loves everybody" and the pastor said something along the lines of "God does not listen to the prayers of those who are living in sin." When I read the comments for that articles, they were talking about how our society rejects true preachers and true love is preaching the truth to all and that if the apostles and Steven preached a gospel of love/inclusiveness they wouldn't have been stoned to death

[rrich7]

I was just having a discussion with my sister about this. We both questioned why can't these people see how contradictory their beliefs are. I def experience this feeling with others & it's frustrating & hurtful as I am human.  We came to the conclusion that they can't see because that's where God means them to be, in His grand plan, we all have our roles to play from vessels of honor to vessels of dishonor & ultimately all things will work together for His good. So we decided, instead of focusing on why they don't understand, why they can't see, we should rejoice that someday they will. Maybe we shouldn't get so hoity toity about our revelation & their lack of because many of is were them before God led/dragged us here.

[marie glen]

I was just having a discussion with my sister about this. We both questioned why can't these people see how contradictory their beliefs are. I def experience this feeling with others & it's frustrating & hurtful as I am human.  We came to the conclusion that they can't see because that's where God means them to be, in His grand plan, we all have our roles to play from vessels of honor to vessels of dishonor & ultimately all things will work together for His good. So we decided, instead of focusing on why they don't understand, why they can't see, we should rejoice that someday they will. Maybe we shouldn't get so hoity toity about our revelation & their lack of because many of is were them before God led/dragged us here.

....and I'm sure we too, are wrong about many things.. imo :smile:

[rosered]

I was just having a discussion with my sister about this. We both questioned why can't these people see how contradictory their beliefs are. I def experience this feeling with others & it's frustrating & hurtful as I am human.  We came to the conclusion that they can't see because that's where God means them to be, in His grand plan, we all have our roles to play from vessels of honor to vessels of dishonor & ultimately all things will work together for His good. So we decided, instead of focusing on why they don't understand, why they can't see, we should rejoice that someday they will. Maybe we shouldn't get so hoity toity about our revelation & their lack of because many of is were them before God led/dragged us here.

Exactly   , one of the greatest    powers of   divine Love is forgiveness
and no man posses it on their own     , For God is Love    ,  Its only those whom have    been forgiven    much    can love  much 

Luke  7 Aramaic Bible in Plain English
"On account of this, I say to you, that her many sins are forgiven her because she loved much, but he who is forgiven a little loves a little."

I miss the miss zoolander , hope she is well , and  may return , her nephew  is a little darling    , Devon     He is beautiful   ,  I have a grandson the same age    13 months I could not imagine  such a loss .
     love to all  :HeartThrob:
   He is beautiful