End times?

[Molly]

5Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses."

6The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."

12The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the miraculous signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13When they finished, James spoke up: "Brothers, listen to me. 14Simon[a] has described to us how God at first showed his concern by taking from the Gentiles a people for himself. 15The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16" 'After this I will return
      and rebuild David's fallen tent.
   Its ruins I will rebuild,
      and I will restore it,
17that the remnant of men may seek the Lord,
      and all the Gentiles who bear my name,
   says the Lord, who does these things'
    18that have been known for ages.

19"It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath."

--Acts 15



4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

--Rom 10

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Odd; I just really took notice for the first time, that Paul advised them to follow part of the LAW, ie. no sexual immorality, no meat polluted by idols, and no eating of blood. Blessings.....

[gregoryfl]

:cloud9: Odd; I just really took notice for the first time, that Paul advised them to follow part of the LAW, ie. no sexual immorality, no meat polluted by idols, and no eating of blood. Blessings.....

Yes, that is explained to be because "For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath." in verse 21.

This could either mean that since the only way these believers could hear the scriptures being read was to be able to go into the synagogue, and the 4 specific practices would have resulted in them being expelled from being able to go there, that if they adhered to these prohibitions they would be able to attend freely and hear the scriptures being expounded. As is known, that would have been about the only way to be taught from the scriptures at that time.

Ron

[jabcat]

Yeah, it's all interesting Card.  Maybe we oughta dig into that a little more.  This is off the cuff - anything to do with Paul's "progressive revelation" maybe?  The articles I posted for Nat in the Torah thread were pretty interesting along these lines.  

Also, I ran across this on a site called unleavened bread ministries...

"I found 2 Chronicles 33:8, "... so that they will take heed
to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole
law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses."
Yup, they sure had some ordinances back there from Moses alright,
lots of them! Six hundred and thirteen of them, they say.
Then it happened, to borrow a word from Gomer Pyle of
the old Andy Griffith Show, "Shazzam!" (properly pronounced
with a Carolina accent) Up popped Ephesians 2:15, "Having
abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments
[contained] in ordinances." Right there in the New Testament
it says, "abolished."

Hmmm, some things to think about fo' sure... :bigGrin:

P.S.  just saw your post Ron, good points.

[Molly]

Also, it has been suggested that he was prohibiting those things most closely associated with pagan customs.


[my letter 'l' sticks]

[gregoryfl]

Thanks for adding that to the understanding Molly. Anyone doing those things would most certainly have shocked the natural Jew. We know that later Paul actually showed that eating meat sacrificed to idols was not a problem, but since not all have that understanding, they would be wise to act in a way so as not to cause stumbling. (1Co 8)

That little word "for" in verse 21 links back to verse 20, so the reading of Moses in the synagogues is in some way connected to and given as a reason for the prohibitions being given.

Ron

[Doug]

Yeah, it's all interesting Card.  Maybe we oughta dig into that a little more.  This is off the cuff - anything to do with Paul's "progressive revelation" maybe?  The articles I posted for Nat in the Torah thread were pretty interesting along these lines.  

Also, I ran across this on a site called unleavened bread ministries...

"I found 2 Chronicles 33:8, "... so that they will take heed
to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole
law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses."
Yup, they sure had some ordinances back there from Moses alright,
lots of them! Six hundred and thirteen of them, they say.
Then it happened, to borrow a word from Gomer Pyle of
the old Andy Griffith Show, "Shazzam!" (properly pronounced
with a Carolina accent) Up popped Ephesians 2:15, "Having
abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments
[contained] in ordinances." Right there in the New Testament
it says, "abolished."

What was abolished? Evidently it does not include this commandment:

Ephesians 6:1-3
1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
2 Honour thy father and mother; which is the first commandment with promise;
3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.

Hmm..

Seems that Paul thought that the promise included in this commandment was still valid! Or else, why would he say it was "the first commandment with promise"? Obviously, he believed the promise attached to it was still in effect. It had not been abolished. In chapter 5, he alludes to the commandment about coveting, and the one against idolatry. Transgression of those brings "the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience."

So there is 3 out of 10, in the same book of Ephesians, which was written not to Jews, but to Christians in a Gentile city. 

Ephesians 5:1-8
1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

More food for thought..   :Sparkletooth:

Doug

[Doug]

5Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses."

6The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."

12The whole assembly became silent as they listened to Barnabas and Paul telling about the miraculous signs and wonders God had done among the Gentiles through them. 13When they finished, James spoke up: "Brothers, listen to me. 14Simon[a] has described to us how God at first showed his concern by taking from the Gentiles a people for himself. 15The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16" 'After this I will return
      and rebuild David's fallen tent.
   Its ruins I will rebuild,
      and I will restore it,
17that the remnant of men may seek the Lord,
      and all the Gentiles who bear my name,
   says the Lord, who does these things'
    18that have been known for ages.

19"It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath."

--Acts 15



4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

--Rom 10

The Relationship Between Good Works and Salvation

Doug

[sheila]

  As far as I can see, you've nailed it Doug.

   At the end of Christ's reign..you can expect that the

   salvation of all mankind  would go forth in the earth.

    The problem is..satan is released from the abyss at the

same time...and misleads the 'all nations' into fighting against

the camp of the city He loves.

[Doug]

  As far as I can see, you've nailed it Doug.

   At the end of Christ's reign..you can expect that the

   salvation of all mankind  would go forth in the earth.

    The problem is..satan is released from the abyss at the

same time...and misleads the 'all nations' into fighting against

the camp of the city He loves.

This might be helpful:

Sermons vpon the whole booke of the Reuelation, by George Gifford, 1599.

Doug

[HartleyDamboiseII]

All of Rom. is progressive, what I mean is that he starts out talking of how it was with mankind, then moves on to what it is like with a Christ and then he moves on to what it is like IN Christ after the rezz.

A real good example of this is Rom. 3:23, "All have sinned." And this is talking to the people that was moving out of Law to IN Christ where there IS NO SIN i.e. IN the body of the Christ now - The Spiritual believer of the Son of God, Those that have faith to believe that Christ did it ALL FOR US and we don't have to do any thing. Except have faith in His Work... not ours.

[jabcat]

Well Lee, I had mentioned was there any connection at all to what some call "progressive revelation" of Paul  :dontknow:...

Let me see if I can explain a bit about what I understand (though I certainly don't think I have a full understanding of it, and I also personally seriously doubt that any of us do - I believe we all have pieces of it and can learn from each other if we're open to doing so.)

Anyway, I probably can't fully explain what I SORT OF see, but here are some thoughts on it.  As far as what you pointed out Doug, it's obvious Paul said that.  But it's also obvious he said this in Romans 8 -

"There is, then, now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit;  2for the law of the Spirit of the life in Christ Jesus did set me free from the law of the sin and of the death;  3for what the law was not able to do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, His own Son having sent in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, did condemn the sin in the flesh,  4that the righteousness of the law may be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.  5For those who are according to the flesh, the things of the flesh do mind; and those according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit;  6for the mind of the flesh [is] death, and the mind of the Spirit -- life and peace;"

So, haltingly I'll attempt to say it this way...I don't believe in living "lawlessly", but I also don't believe in being in bondage to "the Law" that Jesus came to fulfill, and then Paul on many occasions saying we are not to seek justification through the law, we are not under the law but under grace.  So the best I can do with this right now is to see it as when we experience the new birth (believing on Jesus for our salvation) that He writes His will ("laws"?) on our heart, so that as we live IN HIM, He works through us, to teach as sons to be obedient and follow in His footsteps.  I.e., if I've been called, chosen, God has given me faith to believe on Jesus as Savior and I love Him, then He will (through my heart/will) lead me away from sin and into His Life.  I won't need to always be consulting a list of dos and don'ts (Law carved in stone) but rather the Spirit within me will be convicting, guiding, assisting, empowering me to please my Father (carved in my heart of flesh).  For instance, since everything in the OT is for our learning, then I can see that honoring my father and mother is a good thing.  It would be a way to please my Father, and I may even be blessed for it.  [It was a Law for them] but as a NT grace believer to look at it as being "under that Law", it's honestly a little puzzling, since Paul said over and over we are not so, and Jesus said that loving God and our neighbor fulfills all the law.   :Chinscratch:

I realize this isn't "complete" and is only a "talking point"/partial understanding, but does this sort of make any sense to anyone to where you can build on it?

Now why Paul referenced the Law (as in your post Doug), yet on so many occasions spoke against attempting to adhere to law, against seeing it as a means to be justified, saying the Law was a taskmaster leading us to Christ and now that we are children and not slaves so don't have a need for a taskmaster, etc., IMO opens up a WHOLE lot of need for Spirit revelation and rightly dividing the Word of truth.  That's why I say "easy does it, we've all just got pieces of it and we need to help each other with it".  My  :2c:.

Gary Amirault - "According to Paul, the apostle to the nations, during the Church Age, we would only receive an "earnest" of the Holy Spirit, a down payment, so-to-speak of the fullness which would come at a different time. Many recent Christian writers see this typified in the feasts of Israel and in the Mosaic tabernacle. The feast of Pentecost and the Holy Place in the Mosaic Tabernacle represent the Church Age, the second phase of God's plan for the redemption of mankind. The Feast of Pentecost was celebrated with leaven which symbolized sin. An earnest of the Holy Spirit will not bring forth perfection or truth, it will bring forth a mixture, some truth and some error. (See "Beyond Jordan" article on tentmaker.org for a deeper explanation.) The end of Israel's history during the Old Covenant came to a very bad end. Many believe the Church Age is near its end. Usually changes from one dispensation to another bring great upheavals. I think the Church and the world-at-large is about to experience an upheaval of unprecedented proportions. This mixture of error and truth, law and grace, will make way for the final feast day and entrance into the Most Holy Place as typified in the Mosaic Tabernacle. The more we hold onto our old ways, consisting of the "traditions of men" and the "doctrines of demons," the more difficult the days will be for the Christian. But the more humble one becomes realizing we have learned much error during the mixed season, the more willing we are to put down our "traditions" so that the Holy Spirit can lead us into all truth, the easier will be our transition from the passing age to the age to come."
God's blessings, James.  

[HartleyDamboiseII]

Jabcat, I am truly impressed as to how easy you put it into words, It is kind of exactly what I mean, all I can add is,Even some of Paul's writings like Rom. is progressive, most of Rom. is talking to Peoples coming out of Law or Israel or a mix of gentiles and Jews, so when he talks to them he has to preach what God had promised to fulfill to "Them" Then he moves on to a higher understanding....


I know that most people don't like it when I/anyone recommends a book but at Concordant.org in the catalog section buy the book The Gospel of Our Salvation 6 Dollars I think, It "Will" change you to much more Spiritual in your understanding.  Lee

[jabcat]

some of Paul's writings like Rom. is progressive, most of Rom. is talking to Peoples coming out of Law or Israel or a mix of gentiles and Jews, so when he talks to them he has to preach what God had promised to fulfill to "Them" Then he moves on to a higher understanding....

Thanks Lee, and that's very interesting.  I had never really thought of Paul's writings as being "progressive revelation" until recently...I'm not real versed on it, I need to look at it some more.  It might help explain some things, help us in rightly dividing the Word of truth.  I've said this for awhile, and though I've believed it, this is just one more example of maybe I'm actually learning a little more about it - and that is, I don't believe the scriptures, accurately translated, Spirit-revealed, and rightly divided, contradict themselves...If those things aren't present, they can seem to, we can argue til we're blue in the face, and start thousands of denominations (oh wait, that's already happened  :laughing7:).  But, if those 3 things are present, They fit together if we "get it"...Maybe we're getting it a bit at a time  :bigGrin:.

[Molly]

Do angels singing count as end times?   :bigGrin:


Some might have already heard this but--

Angels Singing
in a Kansas  Church

Story behind the tape and singing on audio at--

http://www.choicesforliving.com/spirit/angels/angels-4.htm




Presumed angel solo--

Halleluyah(s) ringing all across the land
Everybody's singing at the Lord's command
All the saints and the angels up in glory wait to hear the news
of Jesus and his children as they're coming through.

Halleluyah, halleluyah

[reFORMer]

Something like the "sin free" idea is what over the years has made some friends of mine go back to the world.  "It didn't work for me," they said.  One had to be, "True to myself," was how he put it.  The evidence from that born of Adam was being taken as self's identity, while the lust of the spirit against the flesh was diverted by turning aside to what he was more habituated.  Another said, "I tried. God knows I tried.  Nobody's tried harder.  I just couldn't change."  I answered him, "It's not about your change; but, it's all about His presence."  We must deny ourselves for however long it takes.  While peace will develop from pursuing intimacy with God's Spirit, it is wrong to think that continual or intermittent battle means we've failed to either believe aright or that we just aren't one of "the saved."  Even failures to live up to the perfect standard in God's law are not evidence of a reprobate.  In fact, many "reprobates" become mighty in the Lord.

Those saved from the homosexual lifestyle are an ideal example of this, as that sin marks a condemned culture.  Many who follow after the Lord find the impulses of their flesh may be indulged in approved channels, like marriage, family, career, peer recognition, traditional religion and the like.  There is not a profound contradiction between their human life and partaking of the Divine nature.  But often with homosexual sin it is so life controlling and has so long been taken as one's identity that the deepest work of discovering the distinction between the Adam and Christ nature within is required.  The differences must be recognized to exercise faithfulness between that of the world, the flesh, and the devil in the natural soul life, to completely cut it down, and evidences of spirit, which are to be given over to, so bringing life and peace.  Early, in our developing walk with God, as it was also early in the days of preparation when Jesus had not yet been revealed, John the Baptist says:  "Yet already the ax is lying at the root of the trees.  Every tree, then, which is not producing ideal fruit is hewn down and cast into the fire.  For I, indeed, am baptizing you in water for repentance, yet He Who is coming after me is stronger than I, Whose sandals I am not competent to bear. He will be baptizing you in holy spirit and fire,  Whose winnowing shovel is in His hand, and He will be scouring His threshing floor, and will be gathering His grain into His barn, yet the chaff will He be burning up with unextinguished fire." (Mt 3:10-12, CLT)  "Chaff" first is, "Grain husks after separation from the seed" (The American Heritage Dictionary.)  The flesh, primarily an entity presenting in the soul,  is the chaff, an outer husk that is burning as long as the body born from Adam is worn by the Seed.  That body is malfunctioning because of inherited mortality.

The initial work of the Spirit causes us to be experientially aware of the reality of God.  It is normal to have subsequent episodes when we are not aware of His presence.  Whether it occurs because of sin or He simply retracts His manifestation to draw us into a deeper intimacy, this seeming separation in what is commonly called the work of sanctification is part of an ongoing relationship with God.  No one other than the Father knows when we will be finished with the war against sin.  Even Jesus so earnestly resisted sin He was sweating great drops of blood to the very last of His life in this body of humiliation.  David also speaks of learning obedience:  "Before I was afflicted I went astray: but now have I kept thy word." (Ps 119:67, AV)  Real progress is made.  Continuing to walk after the Spirit we mature.  "But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by ('in') Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect (or, 'be adjusting you,') stablish, strengthen, settle ('founding') you." (1 Pt 5:10, AV)

The new birth, being born from above, or born again is spiritual regeneration, what happens when God's Spirit is revealed in union with our spirit, together inhabiting the same body.  It is only a beginning.  The consummation is the liberation of the purchased possession.  Then we will be so constituted to see God as He is.  The earnest of the Spirit is not to be mistaken for the inheritance itself.  It is only the Spirit of Promise, that is, the "promissory" Spirit, demonstrating attributes of the Divine nature in foretaste.  Healings promise a nature over which death has no more dominion.  Word of wisdom or knowledge are little tastes ahead of time of what it means to have the mind of Christ.

Ephesians 2:14-16 (Concordant Literal Translation)...
14 For He is our Peace, Who makes both one, and razes the central wall of the barrier
15 (the enmity in His flesh), nullifying the law of precepts in decrees, that He should be creating the two, in Himself, into one new humanity, making peace;
16 and should be reconciling both in one body to God through the cross, killing the enmity in it.

It seems clear that "the law of precepts in decrees" (loc.cit., Ep 2:15) refers to the ceremonial law, not the moral law.  The parallel passage, Col 2:14 (ref., Col 2:11, 16, 17) shows it is the regulations concerning fasts, feasts, offerings, circumcision, etc.  Christ through His suffering and death ended the ceremonial obligations, which were but shadows He fulfilled, "...that He should be creating the two, in Himself, into one new humanity, making peace."  The Moral law, specially "The Ten Words," or, "Ten Commandments" are different even in the way they were received.  They were spoken in the hearing of all the people.  They are not set aside, but written in our hearts.  Paul underscores the value of the law for the lawless, enumerating conditions contrary to the New Covenant in the blood of Jesus:

1 Timothy 1:5-11 (Concordant Literal Translation)...
5 Now the consummation of the charge is love out of a clean heart and a good conscience and unfeigned faith,
6 from which some, swerving, were turned aside into vain prating,
7 wanting to be teachers of the law, not apprehending either what they are saying, or that concerning which they are insisting.
8 Now we are aware that the law is ideal if ever anyone is using it lawfully,
9 being aware of this, that law is not laid down for the just, yet it is for the lawless and insubordinate, the irreverent and sinners, the malign and profane, thrashers of fathers and thrashers of mothers, homicides,
10 paramours, sodomites, kidnappers, liars, perjurers, and if any other thing is opposing sound teaching,
11 in accord with the evangel of the glory of the happy God, with which I was entrusted.

[jabcat]

Good post James, more to think on for sure.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Good post, reformer  :thumbsup:

[HartleyDamboiseII]

Barry:  :boyheart:   :happy3: Thank you,

when ever people in religion have ever talked to me about end times, I most often run into the type "I call" Dooms-dayers, But what almost all end timers have in common is that they always tell you what Scripture Means...

Barry, YOUR post have given me extreme incite and some other are so set in their old "Religious Ways"  , It is so unbelieveable how many people still believe the  old Rapture Lie, Weather pre-post or whatever. If only all mankind would just realize what the presence of the Son of God is...
The coming
The arriving
The indwelling
etc......

Some will never give an inch, but the sad part is that the knowledge they do have is wasted in some simple error.  Because They Just Can't be proven wrong....

Thank you all for every thing... Wish I could get this dam spell check fixed.
Lee

[Beloved Servant]

HE IS JESUS
www.youtube.com/watch?v=3w7t9DyGkqg

[sheila]

 Often times there is confusion in rightly dividing the 'word of

truth' due to not reckognizing that there are two vessels in each

lump.

   Every scripture that speaks of judgement without mercy is

unto the 'man of sin/old Adam/vessel' fitted for destruction

in all mankind that goes into everlasting cutting off.


   Every scripture in regard to the Blessings is unto the new

man/formed in Christ/vessel of mercy in all mankind tht is

granted eternal life

[HartleyDamboiseII]

Sheila- This is My input on Two lumps.

SIN  FREE  ?

A further exhortation along this line has been found in a writing received many years ago from our friend Connie Asbill.  She wrote, "We find, then, that God has called us out of bondage and into bondage!  The Word says, of course, that God has called us to liberty!   And so He has.  The seeming conflict between the two thoughts is cleared up when we consider Paul's explanation to the Romans.  Hear it!  'Know ye not that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey his servants (Greek: Slaves) ye are to whom ye obey: whether of sin unto death or of obedience unto righteousness?..  Being then made Free From Sin, ye became the slaves of righteousness.... for when ye were slaves of sin, ye were free from righteousness ... but now being made free from sin, and become slaves unto God, ye have your fruit unto holiness and the end life everlasting'(Rom. 6:16-22 )                                                                                                      Did you hear it?  'Ye were slaves of sin--- but have become the slaves of God,'  Beloved, that slavery is a nature, and we were once slaves to a nature.  Now, however, we are becoming slaves again---to a new nature!  God has called us unto liberty, but He has said that when you are a slave to sin, you are free from God!  When, on the other hand, you are a slave to God, then you are free--- free from sin!  Free from Adam.  That is why Paul said, 'The law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law (nature) of sin and death!  Are we grasping the significance of this?  We must see that in order for the spirit to be free, the flesh must be bound.   There cannot be liberty for both the flesh and spirit, for the two are enemies and will create continual warfare if both are free.  If we would have a freedom of spirit, there must come a bondage to the flesh.  When the flesh is free, the spirit is bound, and when the flesh bound, the spirit is free!  Oh, can we pray with the songwriter,  'Set my spirit free that I may worship Thee,' though we realize that in the asking we plead with God for a bondage to be placed upon the flesh man, Adam?  There are many forms that the nature of bondage God is working into us will manifest itself.  If we are to respond to Him in ever circumstance, we must settle beforehand that we do not want to be free!
"This was the law of the Hebrew slave who had served his master for six years and the time came for his dismissal.  But he loved his master and did not want to go out free! If the slave plainly said, 'I love my master,,, I will not go out free, 'then his master brought him to the doorpost and bored his ear through with an awl;  and he served him forever.  Here we see a beautiful picture of our own relationship to our Master, Jesus Christ. Bought with His blood, the slave is brought into bondage for 'six years.' Six is the number of the flesh, and this time element, therefore, represents the length of time that, though bought with His blood, we live in the bondage of the flesh. As the slave allows Christ, however, to chasten, to discipline, to bind and to bring him into servitude to Himself, he is, in that six years being changed from glory to glory until there comes an end to the fleshly appetites, an end to the rule of the ego-man inside, an end to the 'six years.'  The Lord will then declare to him, 'Now you are free!  You have overcome!  
The slave is free to go—to live his own life—to be his own man—but so thoroughly has the Master's way of life become his own that he finds at the end of that time he is bound by a greater bondage than the law of commandments which held him for six years, for now the slave says, 'I LOVE !' Hallelujah!  Something has been worked into him. ; I LOVE MY MASTER ! I LOVE MY MASTER'S FAMILY! I WILL NOT BE FREE   
   "Ah, he knows the price of such a declaration! 'Then his master shall bring him unto the judges...and his master shall bore his ear through with an awl, and he shall serve him forever!'  It was of this slave that the prophet Isaiah spoke when he said, " The lord God hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back' ( Isa. 50:5 ).  The true hearing of the word of God will work a death in a man and will bring him into the bondage of the obedience of faith.  This slave was a hearing one, for it was the hearing that brought him to the place of such love that he would deliberately choose bondage rather than liberty.   He received, then, the eternal seal of a hearing one, scarred for life through the wounding if the master's tool, having his ear circumcised to hear only that which the Father is speaking!  Jesus said, 'The words that I speak unto you I speak not of my self... but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things'    (Jn. 14:10; 8:28).  This is that final bondage to which the slave came in the piercing of his ear.  Do we desire that bondage, and can we pray...                                                                                                                                                                                                I go bound in the spirit to Jerusalem  --Restrained by His holy word.--Though I'm freeborn, I'm a bondslave son,--Bound by the Spirit of the Lord!---Bind me with fetters from above, --Let Thy rod now fall on me.'---Kept in chains by Father's love,--Thy slave-son I would ever be!  "Let us yield ourselves to His discipline, allow Him to work that bondage into us, lay that rod upon our flesh, for we will find, in the end, that it has been HIS OWN NATURE that we have received! There is no place, now, for self.  We must submit ourselves, yea, even seek out, the restraining influence of the Spirit and the Word.  Do we love our Master ?"  --- end quote.         Kingdom Bible Studies, From the candlestick to the Throne,  Part 6 page 3,  supplied by Lee Damboise II  8/29/05 —J. Preston Eby's Writings

[Molly]

The lord God hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back' ( Isa. 50:5 ).  The true hearing of the word of God will work a death in a man and will bring him into the bondage of the obedience of faith.  This slave was a hearing one, for it was the hearing that brought him to the place of such love that he would deliberately choose bondage rather than liberty.   He received, then, the eternal seal of a hearing one, scarred for life through the wounding if the master's tool, having his ear circumcised to hear only that which the Father is speaking!  Jesus said, 'The words that I speak unto you I speak not of my self... but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things'    (Jn. 14:10; 8:28).  This is that final bondage to which the slave came in the piercing of his ear.  Do we desire that bondage, and can we pray...                                                                                                                                                                                                I go bound in the spirit to Jerusalem  --Restrained by His holy word.--Though I'm freeborn, I'm a bondslave son,--Bound by the Spirit of the Lord!---Bind me with fetters from above,

Paul was on his way to Damascus with orders to arrest the practicing Christians there.  He honestly thought he was doing the Lord's work.  How could he think otherwise?  He was blinded.

When Paul met Jesus on the road to Damascus, his honest reaction shows how blinded this well educated Pharisee, educated in all matters of religion and God's holy word,  really was,-- Who are you?

If we are blind, we are not free.  We have no choices because we cannot see all our options.

Paul, a rich man, an educated man, a Roman citizen, a Jew of Jews of the tribe of Benjamin, a Pharisee learned under Gameliel, had every choice under the sun of his day, but, once he was free to choose--he chose Christ.


Philippians 3:8
Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

[HartleyDamboiseII]

The lord God hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back' ( Isa. 50:5 ).  The true hearing of the word of God will work a death in a man and will bring him into the bondage of the obedience of faith.  This slave was a hearing one, for it was the hearing that brought him to the place of such love that he would deliberately choose bondage rather than liberty.   He received, then, the eternal seal of a hearing one, scarred for life through the wounding if the master's tool, having his ear circumcised to hear only that which the Father is speaking!  Jesus said, 'The words that I speak unto you I speak not of my self... but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things'    (Jn. 14:10; 8:28).  This is that final bondage to which the slave came in the piercing of his ear.  Do we desire that bondage, and can we pray...                                                                                                                                                                                                I go bound in the spirit to Jerusalem  --Restrained by His holy word.--Though I'm freeborn, I'm a bondslave son,--Bound by the Spirit of the Lord!---Bind me with fetters from above,

Paul was on his way to Damascus with orders to arrest the practicing Christians there.  He honestly thought he was doing the Lord's work.  How could he think otherwise?  He was blinded.

When Paul met Jesus on the road to Damascus, his honest reaction shows how blinded this well educated Pharisee, educated in all matters of religion and God's holy word,  really was,-- Who are you?

If we are blind, we are not free.  We have no choices because we cannot see all our options.







The Gift of Salvation !   NO POOF
      Discover for yourself what Scriptures actually teach about the work of Christ.  There is one thing most hold in common: the confidence that man can use his own " Positive Volition" or "Free Will" to accept Christ and get himself "saved" .
   More than a century ago a great man of God, A. P. Adams, penned the following: "I wish to add a word further in regard to the Salvation of ALL men, suggested by the following extract which I clipped from one of my exchanges.  The extract is as follows: The Rev. B.W. Ward, the popular Boston evangelist, and efficient superintendent of the Bleeker St. Mission.  Thus beautifully illustrates the Gift of Salvation: A friend of mine invited me into a jewelry store and asked the clerk for samples of their pocket knives. Placing the price of he best one  alongside of it, on the counter, he said, Ward, I want to make you a little present. There's a knife and there is the price of it, make your choice. Take which one you will as a momento from me.  ( Just like mike saying with a dollar bill in hand, just reach out and take it.) Now, said the evangelist, whose knife was that while it lay there on the counter? It wasn't mine. It would become mind by my deciding to accept it; but without such an act on my part it was not for me. So of salvation. Jesus has paid the price, but the sinner must decide whether or not he will reach forth and take it before it becomes his.  ( Now is this what Your Religion Teaches ?)

   In this extract it will be seen that the salvation of the individual is made to depend upon his own decision. THE SINNER MUST DECIDE, and as he decides so will his future destiny be to all eternity.  Thus ONE'S salvation is practically made to depend on one's self.  God and Christ have done or are doing their part and now they simply wait for the sinner's decision.  By the way, how long did God wait for the ' decision ' of Saul of Tarsus when [ it pleased God to call him ?]

Most people, however, would accept the above extract as a correct presentation of the case, and would assent thereto without any hesitation. But there is a fatal defect in the illustration. The case of the one choosing the knife or {Michael's and Dave's story of the dollar bill } is NOT PARALLEL TO THAT OF THE SINNER CHOOSING SALVATION, because the former has his EYES WIDE OPEN  and knows full well the value of what is presented to him for his choice, while the LATTER IS BLINDED, and knoweth not what he does, 'but if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost; in whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ ...should shine unto them (II Cor. 4: 3-4 ).
" The bible plainly teaches that fallen man is blinded to the truth; the soulical man receives not the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him, neither can he know them because they are spiritually discerned, and the soulical man has not the spirit.
This the sinner does not realize and appreciate the value of the salvation that is offered to him.  In the first place, he does not know that he is lost, and hence feels no need of salvation.  Secondly, this sinner does not know that the salvation offered him in Christ is worth anything.  All he has to go by in determining its worth is the lives of those who profess to possess it, and they for the most part, are very deficient illustrations of its merit.

           Furthermore the sinner is surrounded by circumstances entirely adverse to his acceptance of Christ. And finally, worse than all, 'the mind of the flesh' a corrupt nature, an 'evil heart of unbelief,' a body of death,' that leans toward the BAD and opposes the good continually: and mark you, all these things are circumstances over which the individual has NO control and for which he is NOT to blame.  "Again, mark you, that if he overcomes these unfavorable circumstances and in spite of them does accept Christ, it must be by some power OUTSIDE OF HIMSELF, for in himself he would never have any power for his own deliverance.  This is the teaching of the 7th chapter of Romans.  God must deliver him if he is delivered at ALL he must bring him to the knowledge of his lost condition, so that he will feel his need of a Saviour, and he must give him repentance and faith. God must open his eyes so that he shall not only see the need, but also the priceless value of salvation, that like the apostle Paul, he will be willing to count all things but dross for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus his Lord. 
   " And he must be endowed with power to overcome the evil around and within him.  ALL this help must come from God, and must be imparted to the sinner before he can make the slightest movement toward salvation.  Are there any such elements as these in the case of the man choosing the knife?  Is it not plain that that illustration and the case of the sinner are NOT PARALLEL at all?  And yet just such illustrations are constantly presented as setting forth exactly the case of the sinner in "his" choice or rejection of salvation in Christ!  The fact is there are many factors to be taken into account in the regeneration and new creation of a human being.  It is not such a small matter as picking up a little present that a friend passes over to you. Hence these illustrations are very faulty and misleading " -----------end quote.
   When addressing the unsaved, an evangelist often drew an analogy between Gods sending the gospel to the sinner, and a sick man in bed, with some healing medicine on a table by his side; all he needs to do is reach forth his hand and take it,  ( like Michael's or Dave's dollar bill story )
But in order for this illustration to be in any wise true to the picture which scriptures gives us of the fallen and deprived sinner, the sick man in bed must be described as one who is Blind(Eph. 4:18),so that he can not see the medicine, his hand paralyzed(Rom.5:6) so that he is unable to reach forth for it, and his heart not only devoid of all confidence in the medicine but filled with hatred against the physician himself (Jn. 15:18 ).  Oh, what superficial views of man's desperate plight are not entertained!

Christ come here NOT to help those who were willing to help themselves, or even those willing to be helped, but to do for people what they were incapable of doing for them selves: "to open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house". (Isa. 42:7)
   Some one will ask, "will God save men eventually against their will?"  The answer is NO !  He will have no need to do that, for ALL men will be 100% willing when God reveals Himself to them.  Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped, and the doors of the prison house shall be opened.  We have only to consider the case of Saul of Tarsus to understand the miraculous power of the Lord to change the leopard's spots and melt the heart of stone. {new-cov.Jer 31:31 or Ez.36:26-27 ).  There are those who suppose that God could not convert a soul unless that depraved and lost soul gives to almighty God that permission. ( NOT ). I only wish they would ask the Apostle Paul, that Great despiser of Christ and hater of His church, that persecutor of Christians, who while on his way to Damascus was suddenly cast to the ground and converted (turned ).  No man was ever more hateful toward Christ than was Saul of Tarsus, yet, when his turn came (to see the light), he changed in an instant, crying out in fear and trembling and with bitter repentance, "Who art thou, Lord? " and "What will thou have me do ?" Did God ask Saul of Tarsus whether or not he wanted to be saved ?, or did He say to Ananias, "He is a chosen vessel unto me to bear My name before the gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel"  (Acts 9:15 )

It is only God who can change the human heart, and when God wills to change every single human heart in earth and in hell, each will be changed in an INSTANT (Twinkle ).
Jer,31:31-34 Plus Ez.36:26-27
   
   

Behold, the days come, saith the lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their "hearts"; and will be their God, and they shall be my people, 34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, Saying, know the Lord: for they shall ALL know Me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their inquity, and I will remember their sin ( singular ) no more.
EZ. 36: 26-27 says, A new heart also will I give you, and 'ALL'. a new spirit will I put WITHIN YOU: and  I will take away the stony heart out of you 'flesh' and I will give you a heart of flesh.  And I will put my spirit WITHIN you, and CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES, and ye shall keep my judgments, and DO THEM...29 And I will save you from ALL  your uncleannesses, ( Sin ). Can you understand ALL This....?
   Taken from the book "Saviour of the world series" By J. Preston Eby  Just What Do You Mean " Man is a Free Moral Agent!   Typed by Lee Damboise II

[Molly]

that I may win Christ,
9And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:



"which is through" [the faith of Christ]



G1223
διά
dia
dee-ah'
A primary preposition denoting the channel of an act; through (in very wide applications, local, causal or occasional). In composition it retains the same general import: - after, always, among, at, to avoid, because of (that), briefly, by, for (cause) . . . fore, from, in, by occasion of, of, by reason of, for sake, that, thereby, therefore, X though, through (-out), to, wherefore, with (-in). In composition it retains the same general import.



15Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

--Phil 3



[as many as] "be perfect"

G5046
τέλειος
teleios
tel'-i-os
From G5056; complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.




20Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

21Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

--Hebrews 13