End times?

[Beloved Servant]

This little speck called Earth is where the Lord chose fit to bear His only begotten Son called God With Us.

[Barry DuPont]

This little speck called Earth is where the Lord chose fit to bear His only begotten Son called God With Us.

Of course.
Not at all claiming to the contrary.

A question though:
If there are sentient beings in one of the other 200 billion Galaxies would they have to come here to hear the Gospel?
Of course that opens another can of worms so to speak and is off topic a little but the point is that we see ourselves at the center of everything. I think it's the wrong perspective.

And I belive it is at the heart of why we have trouble with audience relevance. 

Barry

[Beloved Servant]

Well, he does seem fond of us despite the "others" that may be out there — somewhere!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJyW55AXJAkWE are His portion and He is OUR prize!

[HartleyDamboiseII]

I personally would not mind others being out there.
I also believe that if there was, God would have a system for "their" salvation

[Cardinal]

Hey Cardinal.
A few very quick points.

Quote:
Did you miss the part where after He said in Genesis it was very good, that He still destroyed it with water? It has nothing to do with the outer environment of man, but of man's flesh, as defined by the works of the flesh...
End Quote.

Imo not the point.
It was that "world of the ungodly" that was destroyed, not the universe not humanity.
These are covenantal statements and must be understood covenantally.
2Pe 2:5   And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth [person], a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly  

Are you saying that your position is that what God called "very good" is not still here?

:cloud9: No, I'm saying He did what He said He would do, in that He is destroying the "world" He's talking about with fire of the Holy Ghost. Genesis is a pattern, the days are also times representing men, who up to the 7th day, are both darkness and light. Christ IS the 7th day, of no part darkness.

The firstfruits are to be consumed in Him, and the ark of the covenant bears this witness as the tablets of the law were covered over by the mercy seat, the nature/gold of which was refined 7 times. Love COVERS a multitude of sins. This also bears witness, that it's a work He's desiring to do in our flesh, not after we die (as a preference), and certainly not by "flying away" as 90% of the people in buildings believe.......

John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

Quote:
 He said He would destroy it again, only with fire. Humanity in and of itself has no hope, our hope is in Christ and Christ in us, is our hope of glory. There is NOT ONE THING that humanity can do to improve themselves within or without, ACCORDING TO THE REQUIREMENTS OF A HOLY GOD, which is why it says we cannot BY TAKING THOUGHT, add one cubit to our stature. Our stature is measured by CHRIST alone. Man always attempts to change himself from the outside in, thru his own efforts/works of flesh combined with the carnal mind, which is ENMITY AGAINST GOD.

God, on the other hand, changes us from the inside out, beginning with the inward anointing and then via the Holy Ghost (fire that destroys OUR WORLD) which does the works, and the mind of Christ, which is, among other things, our interpreter of the Word. This is why it says the Word is of no private interpretation, because the Spirit interprets that which It wrote. Matt. 13 parable of the wheat and the tares, explains exactly how the field the good seed (Christ) is planted in, IS THE WORLD He's talking about.
End quote.

So God can change one person at a time He just cannot change the world? Interesting that He has those limits in place.

:cloud9: Not really, as He always works thru a firstfruits principle.

The wheat and the tares is about the old covenant world the covenant earth that was seeded.
What NO ONE is going to get out of is that Jesus said that "all nations" and the "whole world" would have the gospel preached to them and then the END would come. Paul said that that had ALREADY BEEN DONE when he wrote his epistles. That world was not the globe that you are claiming it is. And there is nothing that any one can say to get out of this very clear problem. And this then changes presumed interpretation of "world" in Matthew chapter 13. It bears repeating. NO ONE is getting out of this clear biblical fact. IMO it is present and should be accounted for.
Only in reading into the scriptures one's own meanings and one's own agenda can we make the "world" of Matthew chapter 13 our present global world.
I wrote about this before, I don't think anyone answered.

:cloud9: You didn't hear me. I didn't say the global world was what He was talking about. Matt. 13 plainly tells us what the world is He's referring to ending, and it is the field in which the good seed is planted in.

35  That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying , I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.   36  Then Jesus sent the multitude away , and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying , Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.   37  He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;   38  The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;   39  The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.   40  As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.   41  The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;   42  And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.   43  Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear , let him hear .

:cloud9:The Kingdom of a necessity is where the King is, and the King is in us, the Kingdom is in us, ie. the good seed was planted IN US. It is interesting to note that the word for "ankle" means "end of the world", in Hebrew. Not that hard to grasp that He might consider us a world/earth as Adam was taken from the dust of the earth.

Quote:  
Actually, it is not JUST talking to the former Jews, as the previous portion you omitted shows.
End quote.

Beside the point imo.
It doesn't have to be only the Jews that Paul was then preaching the gospel too within the confines of the world that he is speaking of. As that was the present events that were then happening.
This does not change that Paul is then from verses 18-32 speaking of the first "faith" time frame in his "faith to faith" points. IE, 18-32 is past events not his then present events.
Preaching the gospel to the gentiles was present events.

The covenant breakers he is talking about is the old covenant people not the whole world as you seem to be thinking of and not universal creation either. It is covenant creation not universal creation that Paul is addressing. This is imo abundantly clear in the context. He is clearly speaking of people that were in covenant and thus then knew God and knew what to do and what not to do.

Unless one can go through the context and explain how everyone in the global world had been covenant breakers then the point imo is quite clear.

:cloud9:Really not that difficult if you consider generation curses that started with Adam's disobedience as the first priest of God. That he was shown priestly duties is evidenced by the fact his sons knew to offer a sacrifice. The covenant of Moses was not the only covenant God had with man. This is why all in Adam died, they were all concluded under judgment that He might have mercy on all.

There is only 2 men on the face of the earth right now; a many-membered body of Adam and many-membered body of Christ. This is shown in the day of atonement offering in which the head of the animal was cut off and separated from the body first, all skin removed, and then the body was cut in the joints (not a bone of His was broken), and all the pieces were to be placed on the altar without touching (that which every joint supplies is the HG), the head first.

They were not to TOUCH because the fire was to go between the pieces of the body, the head first. So essentially what is happening every time someone comes to the Lord and receives the baptism, is another piece of Adam is being cut off that it might be joined to Christ via the fire of the Holy Ghost baptism. Until this happens, Adam's conscience bears witness against him, which is how they know when they trespass without anyone telling them. That's why he's "dead" in sins and trespasses.

As for what they are, as I said before, just read Deut. 28 for a review of all the curses of God upon those that walk in the flesh, which is everyone that does not walk in the Spirit. It's not hard to see where we or our generations we're aware of, fall into those categories. In the tabernacle pattern, the outer court had ALL ISRAEL, including STRANGERS, which is why all were included. And these are whom He was talking about that had no excuse because they could see the things of the creation.

If you were in the outer court, when you looked up, there was no covering, so you saw a LITERAL everything, a literal sun, moon, and stars. And so that pattern rings true for people today, that have no covering of His Spirit, which is what the inner court realm of the spiritual priesthood represents. The inner court housed the priests, and they had the light of the candlestick to look to in the nighttime of their souls.

Additionally, the word for covenantbreakers, has as one of it's meanings, FAITHLESS. We are to have the faith of God, the perfection of which, comes thru the baptism in the Spirit, as when the tares are removed, then shall the righteous shine forth. The baptism consumes us in fire, and as long we release whatever it is He's dealing with, we suffer no loss, but like the 3 Hebrew children, only the bondages are burned.

THAT is the end of THIS WORLD, ie. everything in us has bowed the knee and every tongue confessed that Jesus Christ is Lord. Those things that had ALL MEN in bondage are the elements of the world of the flesh of men. This is why what He did with the Jews is a type and shadow for us, because it is a macrocosm of the microcosm that we are.

The priests had to trim the wicks of the candle every day without fail. This is representative of the things rooted in our flesh that must be burned/cut off as an offering (carnal beastly natures). Failure to do this resulted in smoking up the room (dim vision) so that the priests could not see to minister.

The outer court dealt with sin that was visible in dealing with the carnal beastly natures, but the inner court is a deep work in the soul of man, which is why this realm is associated with the Holy Ghost, who searches out the HIDDEN things of the heart. Picking up your cross and following Him results in walking out this pattern. Following Him is following Him thru the compartments of the tabernacle, the witness of heavenly things, APPROPRIATING AND APPLYING those principles to yourself.

The "elements of the world" that Paul wrote of was the law and the prophets.

:cloud9:That word elements there is translated also as "rudiments" in this scripture. It's meaning also backs up what I said the part in Galatians was about, which was those who were/are trapped in idol worship of something in the creation. This Greek word is where we get our word stoic from and it was a PHILOSOPHY of abstinence to the desires of the flesh, by the WILL OF MAN, and not a cleansing of the root cause that only the Spirit of God can uproot. Which goes back to what I said, about how we cannot add to our stature one cubit, BY TAKING THOUGHT, only the Spirit can.

In that chapter here in Colosians, He is both talking about the Jews and the Gentiles, just as He was in Romans, and the OT covenant cannot be the world He is talking about because these things listed were not part of their "world", but of the "world" of the Gentiles, particularly his concern over the Greek philosophers.

 Col. 2:8  Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

stoy-khi'-on       Noun Neuter
Definition

  1. any first thing, from which the others belonging to some series or composite whole take their rise, an element, first principal
        1. the letters of the alphabet as the elements of speech, not however the written characters, but the spoken sounds
        2. the elements from which all things have come, the material causes of the universe
        3. the heavenly bodies, either as parts of the heavens or (as others think) because in them the elements of man, life and destiny were supposed to reside
        4. the elements, rudiments, primary and fundamental principles of any art, science, or discipline
              1. i.e. of mathematics, Euclid's geometry

:cloud9: That he is talking about Gentiles too, is plain, a little farther down in verse 13, which is......

Col. 2:13  And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;  

The basic premise that I'm reading seems to be that God created the Universe for no other reason than this tiny little speck called earth. I thought he created it as a tent to dwell in. I think we always think we are at the very center of everything until we are proven wrong once again and then we go onto the next "center of the Universe" thinking until that one is proven wrong. But that's jmo.

:cloud9: Obviously since the earth and it's immediate surroundings is where He chose to reveal the glory of His Son and Himself plainly, I don't see why this comment has any bearing on anything. Personally, the only thing I see Him giving preeminence to, is the daystar arising in our hearts. Seems the sun arises really close to our "world". Blessings....

Blessing to you
Barry  

[Beloved Servant]

Well, he does seem fond of us despite the "others" that may be out there — somewhere!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJyW55AXJAkWE are His portion and He is OUR prize!

I commend the way these guys portray our transfiguration in an attic/upper room.

[Beloved Servant]

ALL OF A SUDDEN!
Oh saints!
Watch!

[HartleyDamboiseII]

  :thumbsup:Barry

:ok: Lee Damboise II

[Beloved Servant]

cast your crowns saints

[Barry DuPont]

Hey Cardinal,
Love you sis but must disagree.
Quote:
No, I'm saying He did what He said He would do, in that He is destroying the world He's talking about with fire of the Holy Ghost. Genesis is a pattern, the days are also times representing men, who up to the 7th day, are both darkness and light. Christ IS the 7th day, of no part darkness.
End quote.

Either you see that the "natural" that is fulfilled as covenantal or you see that it is physical. Decide which, and then we can communicate.
He did not destroy the "very good". That's my point, what was yours?

Christ did in NO WAY WHATSOEVER predict as pertaining to the END that the temple would be destroyed physically. The question is not its atomic structure. NOT AT ALL. The end of the age has nothing to do with what some here are calling for.

It is rather "not one stone shall be left upon another"
It's physicality is never the problem. It's having been built by hands is the problem.  

Quote:
Not really, as He always works thru a firstfruits principle.
End quote.
Indeed and the first fruits were the first fruits of the general harvest.
And that very principle demands two things:
1) that the general harvest was of the same planting and thus eminent. And Pentecost was the time of the beginning of the firstfruits according to the Jewish calendar.
2) that the first were the very best of the whole harvest. When the very best was accepted the whole was accepted!

imo you are represent neither in your point of view.  On the contrary you see all having to attain to the first fruits perfection in perpetuity. Wherein the self sacrifice is universal and not firstfuits.Quote:

You didn't hear me. I didn't say the global world was what He was talking about. Matt. 13 plainly tells us what the world is He's referring to ending, and it is the field in which the good seed is planted in.
End quote.
Imo the point is mute. The field is only that which it is planted in. The field is not us. The field is that which Paul and the other spread the gospel. Try to deal with my point concerning the limits of the then world that the gospel was preached within. As mentioned this is not going away as a real problem for the view which you seem to be purposing.

Quote:
The Kingdom of a necessity is where the King is, and the King is in us, the Kingdom is in us, ie. the good seed was planted IN US. It is interesting to note that the word for "ankle" means "end of the world", in Hebrew. Not that hard to grasp that He might consider us a world/earth as Adam was taken from the dust of the earth.
End quote.

Way, way too much subjective interpretation here imo. It is a reaction to traditional Christendom I realize that but it is imo just all over the place and yet no where.

The kingdom of God is Universal in nature. That was the warning to the old covenant people. Watch out the kingdom of heaven is coming!!!! You think because you are the covenant people that you are at the center of the Universe! No you are a micro cosmos and function as a mere catalyst to bring forth a revelation of God's unconditional love for all everywhere for all time.

Thus the form of that world was changed.
The kingdom is not within us but is everywhere and is "among us". Mistranslation on that verse. There is no verse that says the kingdom is within us.

Quote:
Really not that difficult if you consider generation curses that started with Adam's disobedience as the first priest of God. That he was shown priestly duties is evidenced by the fact his sons knew to offer a sacrifice. The covenant of Moses was not the only covenant God had with man. This is why all in Adam died, they were all concluded under judgment that He might have mercy on all.

There is only 2 men on the face of the earth right now; a many-membered body of Adam and many-membered body of Christ. This is shown in the day of atonement offering in which the head of the animal was cut off and separated from the body first, all skin removed, and then the body was cut in the joints (not a bone of His was broken), and all the pieces were to be placed on the altar without touching (that which every joint supplies is the HG), the head first.

They were not to TOUCH because the fire was to go between the pieces of the body, the head first. So essentially what is happening every time someone comes to the Lord and receives the baptism, is another piece of Adam is being cut off that it might be joined to Christ via the fire of the Holy Ghost baptism. Until this happens, Adam's conscience bears witness against him, which is how they know when they trespass without anyone telling them. That's why he's "dead" in sins and trespasses.

As for what they are, as I said before, just read Deut. 28 for a review of all the curses of God upon those that walk in the flesh, which is everyone that does not walk in the Spirit. It's not hard to see where we or our generations we're aware of, fall into those categories. In the tabernacle pattern, the outer court had ALL ISRAEL, including STRANGERS, which is why all were concluded. And these are whom He was talking about that had no excuse because they could see the things of the creation.

If you were in the outer court, when you looked up, there was no covering, so you saw a LITERAL everything, a literal sun, moon, and stars. And so that pattern rings true for people today, that have no covering of His Spirit, which is what the inner court realm of the spiritual priesthood represents. The inner court housed the priests, and they had the light of the candlestick to look to in the nighttime of their souls.
End quote.

Incorrect premise imo.
Death spread to all men through one covenant man. Even those who "sinned not" after that "likeness".  Thus sin moved from COVENANT TO NONE COVENANT. Covenant was however the point. Christ is the second Adam. The last covenant man. And so none are under sin.
Otherwise please explain "likeness" in Romans 5: 14. Who are those who sinned after his likeness and those that did not??

There is imo a complete and utter failure here to understand even the basic points of covenant creation.

Quote:  
That word elements there is translated also as "rudiments" in this scripture. It's meaning also backs up what I said the part in Galatians was about, which was those who were/are trapped in idol worship of something in the creation. This Greek word is where we get our word stoic from and it was a PHILOSOPHY of abstinence to the desires of the flesh, by the WILL OF MAN, and not a cleansing of the root cause that only the Spirit of God can uproot. Which goes back to what I said, about how we cannot add to our stature one cubit, BY TAKING THOUGHT, only the Spirit can.

In that chapter here in Colosians, He is both talking about the Jews and the Gentiles, just as He was in Romans, and the OT covenant cannot be the world He is talking about because these things listed were not part of their "world", but of the "world" of the Gentiles, particularly his concern over the Greek philosophers.
End quote.

Greek philosophy has nothing to do with Colossians. Shall we go through it verse by verse? Let me know.
Rather it is Paul that is addressing "Greeks" about Jewish philosophy of the Judaizers.  

Look up elements! You will find nothing but the elements of the old covenant world every single time. Don't believe me, no problem bring up a verse and we will cover it.

Blessings to you
Barry

[Beloved Servant]

Hi Barry,
Well, your last post was well too long for me to read, so in the interest of the topic, do you believe that ALL will be saved by the blood of Jesus Christ The Lord Son of God who lives and reigns without end?

[Barry DuPont]

Hi Barry,
Well, your last post was well too long for me to read, so in the interest of the topic, do you believe that ALL will be saved by the blood of Jesus Christ The Lord Son of God who lives and reigns without end?

I do not view salvation as a ticket to heaven.
That is one of the major differences.
I view salvation as for "this life". In the gospel of John eternal life is believing.

First off salvation was coming out from under the law (from Adam). Freedom from sin conscience (under the prescience of old covenant types and figures). Look up "conscience" in Hebrews and see the meaning of the "perfection" in question.

Secondly, God has an agenda with creation at large for he is creator. He used covenant creation as a catalyst. Otherwise someone please explain to me why and how the gospel in the first century could have been preached to every creature as Paul said that it had?

God made everything new for ongoing history to continue.

Jesus did not come to start a new religion he came to end man's religion from a covenantal catalyst. Man wishes to attain to God. This is impossible. And it is not why we are here. AND THAT IS THE POINT. Rather it is God that has grasped man. And it is in this that we between our ears must accept. We are loved without condition.
It is this love that causes us to grow and mature and evolve.

In making everything new He continues his creative process.
We keep looking back at the transition of the ages and keep trying to fit in. That was never the point.
Barry

[Beloved Servant]

Hmmm... well, that was a — yes or no — question.

[Barry DuPont]

Hmmm... well, that was a — yes or no — question.

Yes, everyone is saved because no one is under law.
This had nothing to do with getting to heaven. It had to do with bringing heaven to earth.
Barry

[Beloved Servant]

Heaven?
Does Jesus tell us about heaven?

[Barry DuPont]

Good night Beloved.
God bless you.

Tomorrow is another day for me at least. 
Love Barry

[Beloved Servant]

A day is as a thousand years...

[reFORMer]

Thus the form of that world was changed.
The kingdom is not within us but is everywhere and is "among us". Mistranslation on that verse. There is no verse that says the kingdom is within us.

God establishes His kingdom within us first, that He may then extend it through us into the rest of the world.

Luk 17:21 (AV) Neither 3761 shall they say 2046 , Lo 2400 here 5602! or 2228, lo 2400 there 1563! for 1063, behold 2400 , the kingdom 932 of God 2316 is 2076 within 1787 you 5216.

Greek:  entos
Strong's G1787
outline of Biblical usage:
1) within, inside
     a) within you i.e. in the midst of you
     b) within you i.e. your soul

Luke 17:20-21 (Conc. Lit.)...
20 Now, being inquired of by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God is coming, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God is not coming with scrutiny.
21 Neither shall they be declaring 'Lo! here!' or 'Lo! there!' for lo! the kingdom of God is inside of you."

In the Greek "inside" (Lk 17:21, above) is entos, which is, "in^pl."

It doesn't seem we could say King Jesus wasn't in The Kingdom or, if you prefer, that The Kingdom wasn't in Him. He said that Satan had nothing in Him. Nevertheless we see the devil manifesting all around Him in the days of His flesh. This was while Jesus said He could not spoil and lay waste to the devil's kingdom, as He did, if He hadn't bound the strong man. Yet after His ascension the devil seemed to continue manifesting well enough. Jesus taught The Kingdom was not here or there. "It cometh not with observation." He said it is within us. Certain ones of the "orthodox" denominations at that time wanted Jesus to say "when the kingdom of God is coming."  He said it "is not coming with scrutiny.  Neither shall they be declaring 'Lo! here!' or 'Lo! there!' for lo! the kingdom of God is inside you." Lk 17.20-21 (Concordant Literal Version)  Yet some say the Kingdom is not until outwardly seen, that it is not until it is at an obvious location here or there.  Seeking to maintain it is outward and of this world as well as still future, some have said that, "The kingdom of God is 'among' you..." is to be preferred.  If we agree for the moment, let's go on to realize what that must mean.  So then, where Jesus is in our midst, the kingdom of God is in our midst.  If he was there with them and it meant the kingdom of God was with them, then if he's here with us the kingdom of God is here with us.  He said "I will never leave or forsake you."

Here's another example of plural en (Gk.) which is entos (Gk.):

Most translations have "in" here:
Colossians 1:27 (Young's Lit.)
"...which is Christ 'in' you, the hope of the glory..."
(and us in Christ is the glory revealed!  Christ's entrance into us is portrayed in the feasts of Israel.  Our entrance into Him is typified by the successive areas of the tabernacle.)
CLT doesn't us "in" here in the readers edition
Colossians 1:26-27 (Conc. Lit.)...
26 the secret which has been concealed from the eons and from the generations, yet now was made manifest to His saints,
27 to whom God wills to make known what are the glorious riches of this secret among the nations, which is: Christ 'among' you, the expectation of glory --
But look "in" up in thGreek-English Keyword Concordance (p.155) and you'll discover when "in" is a plural number it is translated with "among" in English.
Again, it is the Greek entos, which means, "in^pl."

A plural doesn't remove in any way the original meaning of a word just because it makes poor English.  Because the plural adjective "dailies" is spelled differently it would open one to justified ridicule to assert the meaning is not determined by it's noun "day."

There are many references of God dwelling in us (one place says, "by faith.")  There is nowhere God is that He is not getting His own way.  Yet, for me it was a significant revelation that the kingdom of God is just God.  It's different than other kingdoms that function in Gentile authority, as Samuel warned Israel concerning, described the king they wanted like other nations would appoint a bureachracy of, "Captains of 50's,a and captains of 100's."  God said they had rejected God to rule over them.

To call Him "Emanuel" means the Kingdom of God has come.  To be taught about the kingdom, surely Jesus would be most reliable!  "Jesus answered, 'My kingdom is not of this world:  if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews:  but now is my kingdom not from hence.'" John 18:36 (ASV)  For someone to continue repeating that the reign of God is in no one now and no one is in it now because it is not until it is of this world is to stand in direct contradiction of Jesus and the evidence attesting to the reality of that kingdom in the lives of those following Jesus and believeing His words for a couple thousand years.

Now consider the following three phrases where Jesus acknowledged that entering the kingdom, understood by his disciples as "salvation" was a right equivalence: Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God! It is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. And they were astonished exceedingly, saying unto him, Then who can be saved? Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for all things are possible with God. Mark 10:24-27 (ASV) If it is true for you that you are not in the kingdom of God, be confident God's will is for you to be quickened to live by His Spirit. The experience of regeneration, or being "born again" is the testimony of so many people. You may have this work of God in you too.

Some Roman Catholics I've read, how officially representative of their sect they are I'm not certain, as well as some who're more extreme in their conclusions drawn from dispensational eschatology hold that only when the dimension of the physical, the same in which is food and drink for our body, is inescapably subjugated planet-wide to the manifest presence of God, then His kingdom has come.  This obviously contradicts Scripture saying, "...for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit..." Romans 14:17  "...the kingdom of God is inside you..." Lk 17.21 is a clue to how it is accomplished.  With no king there's no kingdom.  Those things "in" the Holy Spirit come forth within us when He is within us.  Of course, it is tautologous to say in the Holy Spirit is God's reign for God rules in God.  In 2 Pet 1.3-11 "...the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ..." is more fully explained, particulars of inner qualities of character built one upon another that this "entrance" may, "...be richly supplied unto you." (ASV)  This doesn't leave us any room for postponement.  The commandment is, "...giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.  For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.  But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.  Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:  For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ."


Your brother James Rohde

(There's more, but I shortened it.)

[Molly]

For so

"an entrance"

G1529
εἴσοδος
eisodos
ice'-od-os
From G1519 and G3598; an entrance (literally or figuratively): - coming, enter (-ing) in (to).


G3598
ὁδός
hodos
hod-os'
Apparently a primary word; a road; by implication a progress (the route, act or distance); figuratively a mode or means: - journey, (high-) way.



"shall be ministered unto" [you]

G2023
ἐπιχορηγέω
epichorēgeō
ep-ee-khor-ayg-eh'-o
From G1909 and G5524; to furnish besides, that is, fully supply, (figuratively) aid or contribute: - add, minister (nourishment, unto).


abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ."



Isaiah 35:8
And an highway shall be there, and a way, and it shall be called The way of holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it; but it shall be for those: the wayfaring men, though fools, shall not err therein.

[HartleyDamboiseII]

Barry, Thanks from within.  Lee

:dsunny: :banana: :popout:

[Barry DuPont]

Hey James.
Thanks for the input!
Quote emphasis mine:
1) within, inside
    a) within you i.e. in the midst of you
End quote.
"in the midst of you" is my understanding of that text.

RSV correctly gets the context at hand. Which is actually throughout Luke.
Luk 17:18 Was no one found to return and give praise to God except this foreigner?"  
Luk 17:19 And he said to him, "Rise and go your way; your faith has made you well."  
Luk 17:20 Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God was coming, he answered them, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed;  
Luk 17:21 nor will they say, 'Lo, here it is!' or 'There!' for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you."

Was the kingdom of God then within the Pharisees who were seeking a sign even though signs were more than abundant and Christ had just performed one?

They never had enough signs because the signs were never according to their expectations. So the signs were never enough. In this sense then no other sign (fundamental sign) would be given them but the sign of Jonah!
3 days in the grave.
"Destroy this temple and in three days..."

Or was the kingdom of God in his mists though he could not see it?

Luk 9:1  Then he called his twelve disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.  
Luk 9:2   And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.  

Luk 9:11   And the people, when they knew [it], followed him: and he received them, and spake unto them of the kingdom of God, and healed them that had need of healing.

Luk 10:9   And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

Luk 11:20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.

Jesus is certainly not claiming that the kingdom of God was within him. Because it was not. He was saying the it was in front of him and he could not see it.

Luk 17:24   For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one [part] under heaven, shineth unto the other [part] under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.  
Luk 17:25   But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.  
Luk 17:26   And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.  
Luk 17:27   They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.  

The coming kingdom of God that John the Baptist and Jesus said was at hand was a threat to these people.
It first, in the firstfruits expressed itself as "Christ in them" that being in the firstfruits. But the conclusion is nothing short of Universal in scope.


This was the problem that the old covenant man then had. He was about to end.
This was the message of John the baptist in Matthew and Luke chapter 3. It was the message throughout the Gospels and throughout the epistles.

The old covenant was about to end not only for the believer but for the unbeliever.

Mat 21:31   Whether of them twain did the will of [his] father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.  
Mat 21:32   For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen [it], repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

The message always was, lose your soul now while you can or you will lose it catastrophically in the end of the age.

The old covenant man is no more. There are no valid types and figure to support such a man. A revelation of the unconditional love a God has been given.  

Blessings Barry

[HartleyDamboiseII]

Berry, Thy Kingdom Come is for the People of God before His Rezz Day,

Heaven was a thing for the later Peoples of God, The Graced people. You choose who those people are, The promises were never to go to Heaven, the promises were that the Kingdom would come....

In the new age/eon peoples, It was all about The Heaven Issue...


I really have to get ready to do a strip job, (Wax/Strip) for those that think evil.

Be back later. Love Lee

[Molly]

Hey James.
Thanks for the input!
Quote emphasis mine:
1) within, inside
    a) within you i.e. in the midst of you
End quote.
"in the midst of you" is my understanding of that text.

Just to be clear, are you denying Christ in you, the hope of glory?


Because my reading of 'in the midst of you[singular]" is the same as the tree of life in the midst of the garden or the ark in the midst of the tent of David--that is, in the middle, in the holiest place.

[Doug]

This was the problem that the old covenant man then had. He was about to end.
This was the message of John the baptist in Matthew and Luke chapter 3. It was the message throughout the Gospels and throughout the epistles.

The old covenant was about to end not only for the believer but for the unbeliever.

What was it that ended? The Mosaic system of ritual sacrifices. That is what ended in 70 AD when Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed. And this was a fulfillment of Daniel 9:27:

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.
   
The "covenant" which is confirmed by Jesus, is the promise made to Abraham, that Daniel referred to in Dan. 9:4, when he said,

Daniel 9:4
And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;

This is the covenant that Jesus confirms with his saints, as Zacharias the father of John the Baptist said.  

Luke 1:66-75
68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

The covenant he referred to was not the sacrificial system, but "the oath which he sware to our father Abraham." This did not pass away in 70 AD. It is what Paul called the gospel, Gal. 3:8

Mat 21:31   Whether of them twain did the will of [his] father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.  
Mat 21:32   For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen [it], repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

The message always was, lose your soul now while you can or you will lose it catastrophically in the end of the age.

The old covenant man is no more. There are no valid types and figure to support such a man. A revelation of the unconditional love a God has been given.  

Blessings Barry

Those who follow Jesus Christ are the ones with whom he confirms his covenant. He confirms it for one week, which is a prophetic week, or "seven times," that began when Jesus began his ministry, or perhaps it was when John began to preach. It is the last "seven times" of Lev. 26. This is the covenant he still confirms with his saints today. Daniel said the sacrifice and the oblation would cease "in the midst of the week" which was 70 AD. It was not the end of the week. So the last half-week is not a literal three years and a half. It is the "time, times and a half" in which the antichrist, the little horn of Dan. 7, dominates the saints. He speaks great words against the most high, and has "eyes like the eyes of a man," or has a human viewpoint, which contrasts with a divine viewpoint.

Daniel 7:25
And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

This antichrist figure thinks "to change times and laws." It is against the holy covenant!

Scripture does not say the covenant will end. It says God will "remember" his covenant. And he even revives his covenant, with his new covenant!

Deut. 4:31
He will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which He sware unto them.

Lev. 26:42
Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.

Ezek. 36:28
And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

Jer. 31:33
But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Rom. 11:27
For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Heb. 8:10, 12
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: ...
For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

Heb. 10:16-17
This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Jesus said,

Mat. 5:17
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Doug

[Molly]

Luk 17:21 nor will they say, 'Lo, here it is!' or 'There!' for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you."

Satan would love to have us think less of ourselves than we are, so let's be clear--




the3588 kingdom932 of God2316 is2076 within1787 you.5216



G1787
ἐντός
entos
en-tos'
From G1722; inside (adverb or noun): - within.