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#91

Discussions on Universal Salvation / Re: Ecc 3 ;11

Last post by rosered - December 19, 2025, 02:03:31 PM

Mankind is separated from the angels.
Hebrews 1:13,14
Hebrews 2:5
2 Peter 2:4 mentioned angels currently in bondage till the judgements start.
1 Corinthians 6:3 states we will be above them:
Revelations 20;10 Satan and sidekicks will go through the lake of fire.
The Great White Throne  of unlimited time .
Revelations 20:14 death and hades also dealt with.
All this before the New heaven and earth .
I wonder if the new city is created in the 1000 years/millennium

   Thank you Ross for your summary, in as few words as possible, with impact  to the facts /Truth , you are a treasure.  I know how God loves us all and gave Himself for us .


I love how you shared and cared enough to answer!   

To me it has always been a matter of perspective, How we see and hear and understand by  the gifts of God though our Lord Jesus Christ  and the ability to help the increase of Gods kingdom

  come and will be done on earth as it is in heaven
 
By sharing the bread of life and living water with others , that we consider more valuable than all the world , set in our hearts .

I just wanted to say this is for me thinking and not that I really know it all , I confess I do not , but do know enough to Know the ONE who does and its is a perfect WORKING OF ALL THINGS

Together  for the good of all , till the perfect comes and everyone is set free at last

I do believe the hidden things have been going on since the world began and this exercise in learning obedience to the will of God , has been hidden from our eyes and every discovery is life quickening, we crave more and more of Him .
I know God loves us all so very much and wants us to ask Him and the personal revealing of Christ in us , this anointing in us continues to the full end of all things of the here and now  .

  Every Word is Life to us by His hand and what has to die in us does and it is a beautiful working of the Holy Spirit alone that does this very thing.

We love Him for it , to know Him is to love Him , there will be no denying this .

I found something yesterday and it was brilliant  , I hope to share it soon because it is way to beautiful not to. and so many have helped along the way , just because one is given a gift is no

reason to despise the messenger, it really is the message that we are to accept or reject, this is our own determination to judge and be judged by what we are willing to receive or reject

  the TRUTH . 
But the truth has to remain and be processed in us , this is where the enduring till the end become difficult to go though . 
God is amazing , the great I AM is life changing , going from life to life and a better resurrection each time we go through it, it's our cross to bear and to know the glory of God from it all.

all things are yours

life and death are yours


21Therefore, stop boasting in men. All things are yours,

22whether Paul or Apollos or Cephase or the world or life or death or the present or the future.

  All of them belong to you, 23and you belong to Christ, and Christ belongs to God. :HeartThrob:   the process of changing us from something awful to something  hagios HOLY innocent
 
messengers of death to messengers of Life we are His witnesses to the Glory of GOD the Holy FATHER though our Lord Jes?s CHRIST   
made this to long sorry
Gods blessings , we bless Him because HE BLESSUS US ,LOVE is always  complete and shared and of the WHOLE in perfection = entire an all in all  End
 
This is how the saints holy ones  glorify God , precious in His sight and the death of His saints  , they go on from life to a more abundant life complete into perfection .

[out]

#92

Discussions on Universal Salvation / Re: Ecc 3 ;11

Last post by GodSavesAll - December 19, 2025, 01:50:27 PM

Mankind is separated from the angels.
Hebrews 1:13,14
Hebrews 2:5
2 Peter 2:4 mentioned angels currently in bondage till the judgements start.
1 Corinthians 6:3 states we will be above them:
Revelations 20;10 Satan and sidekicks will go through the lake of fire.
The Great White Throne  of unlimited time .
Revelations 20:14 death and hades also dealt with.
All this before the New heaven and earth .
I wonder if the new city is created in the 1000 years/millennium

Hi Ross.
I never stated in my last post, but I do believe it is scriptural to say that there are 'angels' (messengers) who are IN a physical body and angels who are not. - Simply because - we are NOT our physicality.
However, the passages you sent have a very: 'physical' explanation, and it is only what: 'comes out' of someone that makes them unclean.  (So the whole 'possession' thing is hollywood nonsense)....

If you look at Hebrews 13:2 it reads:-
"Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it".
These 'angels' were seen as just 'regular' people then, since the people showing them hospitality were not even aware they were angels.
That's because anyone heralding the ev-angel is an angel.
God = love.  So someone delivering a message of love = angel/messenger.

Hebrews 1:13-14 emphasizes the superiority of Jesus over messengers, stating that no messenger was invited to sit at God's right hand, a position of honor and authority. 
You see... Jesus' disciples (his 'evangelists/angels/messengers/agents asked about whether they could sit at his 'right' hand or not. 
The passage also describes messengers as ministering 'attitudes' sent to serve those who will inherit salvation.
I am a minister 'attitude' (messenger), as are you. 
I serve humanity - trying to lead them to the truth, as do you.
We are then: messengers (administering spirits/attitudes)... evangelists... bringing the gospel/evangel.
There is nothing here about some bodyless 'ghostly-spirits' going around helping humanity. - That's pure hollywood/mainstream/wordly nonsense.

2 Peter 2:4.
As I stated in my last post concerning this passage; these: 'angels' were people who 'knew' the truth, yet STILL chose to rebel.  Later in Peter, he refers to such as: 'twice dead' and that it would have been better if they had not known the proper Way than to know the Holy command and then turn from It. - With no hope of salvation in this age now (having blasphemed no-doubt the Holy Spirit); they are held in 'chains' (not literally) UNTIL the judgement.
The passage merely says that God doesn't EVEN spare sinning messengers (nevermind the rest of humanity!), since:
"...if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?" 1 Peter 4:18-19.
Again, there is nothing here about bodyless ghostly-type spirits, but rather a 'hard' command to keep striving to do our best for the Kingdom (even if we have turned from God in the past).
"Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are convinced of better things in your case, - the things that have to do with salvation". (HEBREWS 6:9).  (Renewed unto repentence).

1 Corinthians 6:3 states that believers will judge: 'angels' (messengers).  Of course! - The Saints judge the WHOLE world, since it is God operating through them, and so they will judge each other. - They are the only ones fit TOO judge (because they KNOW (and practice) TRUTH). ("What you bind on earth - bound in heaven") (etc), and so they will judge the 'judges' (so to speak). - Even themselves.
Scripture states God judges nobody but entrusts judgement to the Son.  The Son says he comes not to judge but to save.  Paul says:- "I don't even judge myself."  :LH:
Judging:- meaning to make decisions about - decisions of truth justice and love for ultimate benefit of any offender and for all.
The 'truth' Itself (real-ity), the 'Word' will judge. - A person reaps what they sow.
The passage here is simply making a comparison - showing a distinction with earthly affairs and spiritual affairs...
"Have you not seen so as to know that we shall continue shifting, separating, evaluating and making decisions about agents - why not, indeed, the affairs and business matters of everyday life?
In other words... We are in charge of the PERPETUALLY HIGHEST JUDGING, so why can't you make decisions about tiny insignificant earthly, everyday 'trifles' that last for less than an eye-blink?

Revelations 20;10
Here evil itself (d)evil is indeed destroyed (by GoOD/love). - How can it 'end' (omega) any other Way? - (When God IS The end and God IS The Way)?  (and love).
Evil is destroyed along with the beast (evils' physical manifestation on earth) along with the false prophet/antichrist - those in oppostion to God.
I get the feeling you are seeing these: 'three' as three: 'beings' alone? - And not as say: the 'mass' of humanity (which they depict) (prostitute sitting upon beast that sits on many waters (peoples)) (etc)?, the 'evil spirit' (ungodly(attitude)) of the world(ly)?

I could go on if you wanted me to Ross, but I am in quite poor health, so can't sit at a computer too long.

I would only want to chat further about this if it was beneficial for you in any way.

[Insightful posts. Thanks, Marie glen, Rosered and Ross]

#93

Discussions on Universal Salvation / Re: wheel within wheel?

Last post by rosered - December 19, 2025, 01:11:24 PM

Insightful posts. Thanks, Marie glen, Rosered and Ross :banana:

  God our Holy Father bless you with more of Him though our Lord Jesus Christ, the mercy of Our Father expressed to us by His living Word and Living Spirit of truth to set us free 
love always in Him
  This hunger and thirst for His righteousness is a glorious work of God's doing and am ever so thankful :dsunny: :HeartThrob:

[all]

#94

Discussions on Universal Salvation / Re: Ecc 3 ;11

Last post by rosered - December 19, 2025, 01:06:50 PM

I was referring to what Jesus was doing ,  Just His presence. this example

Mark 5:7
And he shouted in a loud voice, ?What do You want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg You before God not to torture me!?  8For Jesus had already declared, ?Come out of this man, you unclean spirit!?

  Thanks for answering.

I am still learning is all.  Found some very interesting scriptures. I believe the Bible is the Word of God.

#

Oh Rose, definitely, we are all learning for sure.
I'm only speaking as I understand and to try to help as best I can.
I believe wholeheartedly that what I am saying is true.

In Mark 5:7, what is happening (to me) is 'spiritual' (a spiritual event).

It's like...
...If I hear someone talk about a near death experience they had, and they describe an: 'angel' as being really tall, with a big flaming sword, and with a halo and large feathery wings... I'm a bit reluctant to believe them because it's so... 'Hollywood'.
HOWEVER...  'Spiritually' (in spirit); I know (from personal experience) ,that we see things 'spiritually'...
...What I mean is this...
...Say someone has a vision of satan... Well they may well see a large, hooded, cloaked, dark, wicked-looking... entitiy... The 'personification' of evil if you like.
Yet; at the same time; the devil (evil) doesn't 'really' have an 'appearance' as such (physically).
We don't 'see' God physically as such either, - yet 'spiritually' we do see Him (I.E: in Christ), in works of love (and so on).  This is how we recognize God IN Christ (in the second/spiritual man).

So when the demon is: 'communicating' with Jesus - I'm understanding that as a spiritual 'conversation'/event.

Now 'spirit' would be meaning: 'attitude' (or mindset).  EG:- "She was in good spirits", or: "That's the spirit!" (When someone adopts the 'right' attitude).
So an evil spirit would be an evil attitude/mindset, or a 'wrong' mindset (one in opposition to 'right' (I.E:- GOD).

So in Mark 5:7:- The evil within the man was recognizing that Jesus could cast 'him' out (I.E. - The man would be parted from his sins (and how we cling to our beloved sins like sick dogs!)), and it is: 'torturous' to be 'cleansed' of sin/purified of evil. - It is corrective yet seems like punishment. - A painful process indeed!
And Jesus has the power to do that.

When Jesus speaks (as the song says); even the darkness hides!

I have had people FLEE from me because I started to convince them that Jesus/God was a reality. 
They KNEW they would have to turn from their sins if they came to a full understanding/recognizing of Him and so they FLED.  "DON'T TORTURE ME JESUS!!!"  They ran off holding their ears!
When He is done with everyone - there won't be a TRACE of sin. - He will get all that is His, just as John says:
"He will burn up the chaff/rubbish with unquenchable fire".
No rubbish will survive.

Much love sister.

   I love what you shared , its wonderful!

Thanking God for His great mercy!  I do understand it is a mindset !   and attitude ! I have found many times  in the WORD OF GOD the very answers and a mindset , that is set to understand By

  asking the Lord Jesus Christ , the gift giver , He is the truth and grace of God the Holy Father expressed to us , and wants us to be free from evil and all forms

When you dig in you are so blessed , many of us a given gifts of the Holy Spirit , just bits and when we share it adds to the WHOLE many more get blessed  , we all do .

What glorifies God as  a purposeful desire of God and His works being accomplished  , everyone is blessed  though our Lord Jesus Christ , He was the very first of his kind  to be born exposing the Sons of God , that was hidden for ages

The word he spoke to them  , he said you are clean 
big clue going from an   unclean spirt to a clean spirit by the washing of the water of the word  , when He come up out of the water during his Jordan washing the very showing of how its done 
the Father said this is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased, its obedience that honors the Father 
God says HEAR HIM

Jese tell his students , disciples , you are clean from this living Word I have spoken to you

no more unclean spirit working in them 
this is one of the clues  and mysteries solved , so many more to go 
but this is too long
  love and blessings and more of Him to all

#95

Discussions on Universal Salvation / Re: Ecc 3 ;11

Last post by Ross - December 19, 2025, 07:43:25 AM

Mankind is separated from the angels.
Hebrews 1:13,14
Hebrews 2:5
2 Peter 2:4 mentioned angels currently in bondage till the judgements start.
1 Corinthians 6:3 states we will be above them:
Revelations 20;10 Satan and sidekicks will go through the lake of fire.
The Great White Throne  of unlimited time .
Revelations 20:14 death and hades also dealt with.
All this before the New heaven and earth .
I wonder if the new city is created in the 1000 years/millennium

[Insightful posts. Thanks, Marie glen, Rosered and Ross]

#96

Discussions on Universal Salvation / Re: wheel within wheel?

Last post by joeteekay - December 19, 2025, 02:48:44 AM

Insightful posts. Thanks, Marie glen, Rosered and Ross :banana:

[all]

#97

Discussions on Universal Salvation / Re: Ecc 3 ;11

Last post by GodSavesAll - December 19, 2025, 01:59:29 AM

I was referring to what Jesus was doing ,  Just His presence. this example

Mark 5:7
And he shouted in a loud voice, ?What do You want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg You before God not to torture me!?  8For Jesus had already declared, ?Come out of this man, you unclean spirit!?

  Thanks for answering.

I am still learning is all.  Found some very interesting scriptures. I believe the Bible is the Word of God.

#

Oh Rose, definitely, we are all learning for sure.
I'm only speaking as I understand and to try to help as best I can.
I believe wholeheartedly that what I am saying is true.

In Mark 5:7, what is happening (to me) is 'spiritual' (a spiritual event).

It's like...
...If I hear someone talk about a near death experience they had, and they describe an: 'angel' as being really tall, with a big flaming sword, and with a halo and large feathery wings... I'm a bit reluctant to believe them because it's so... 'Hollywood'.
HOWEVER...  'Spiritually' (in spirit); I know (from personal experience) ,that we see things 'spiritually'...
...What I mean is this...
...Say someone has a vision of satan... Well they may well see a large, hooded, cloaked, dark, wicked-looking... entitiy... The 'personification' of evil if you like.
Yet; at the same time; the devil (evil) doesn't 'really' have an 'appearance' as such (physically).
We don't 'see' God physically as such either, - yet 'spiritually' we do see Him (I.E: in Christ), in works of love (and so on).  This is how we recognize God IN Christ (in the second/spiritual man).

So when the demon is: 'communicating' with Jesus - I'm understanding that as a spiritual 'conversation'/event.

Now 'spirit' would be meaning: 'attitude' (or mindset).  EG:- "She was in good spirits", or: "That's the spirit!" (When someone adopts the 'right' attitude).
So an evil spirit would be an evil attitude/mindset, or a 'wrong' mindset (one in opposition to 'right' (I.E:- GOD).

So in Mark 5:7:- The evil within the man was recognizing that Jesus could cast 'him' out (I.E. - The man would be parted from his sins (and how we cling to our beloved sins like sick dogs!)), and it is: 'torturous' to be 'cleansed' of sin/purified of evil. - It is corrective yet seems like punishment. - A painful process indeed!
And Jesus has the power to do that.

When Jesus speaks (as the song says); even the darkness hides!

I have had people FLEE from me because I started to convince them that Jesus/God was a reality. 
They KNEW they would have to turn from their sins if they came to a full understanding/recognizing of Him and so they FLED.  "DON'T TORTURE ME JESUS!!!"  They ran off holding their ears!
When He is done with everyone - there won't be a TRACE of sin. - He will get all that is His, just as John says:
"He will burn up the chaff/rubbish with unquenchable fire".
No rubbish will survive.

Much love sister. 

#98

Discussions on Universal Salvation / Re: Ecc 3 ;11

Last post by rosered - December 18, 2025, 10:27:42 PM

I was referring to what Jesus was doing ,  Just His presence. this example

Mark 5:7
And he shouted in a loud voice, ?What do You want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg You before God not to torture me!?  8For Jesus had already declared, ?Come out of this man, you unclean spirit!?

  Thanks for answering.

I am still learning is all.  Found some very interesting scriptures. I believe the Bible is the Word of God.

#99

Discussions on Universal Salvation / Re: Ecc 3 ;11

Last post by GodSavesAll - December 18, 2025, 07:39:00 PM

Thank you so much for the replies and good answers .  G.S.A & Ross

I understand "humanity " in Adam all die. and in Christ all are made alive.

I totally agree the Holy Spirit is the Only teacher of Truth .

I question these wicked /evil spirits that are not of God, Jesus' reply is what made me wonder about it.


   The evil spirit that was tormenting and using mankind /a man to work evil .    Asked JESUS, Did you come to torment us before the appointed time ?


  These in Matt 8;29 and these other scriptures ?

Mark 5:7
And he shouted in a loud voice, ?What do You want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg You before God not to torture me!?

Luke 8:28
When the man saw Jesus, he cried out and fell down before Him, shouting in a loud voice, ?What do You want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg You not to torture me!?

James 2:19
You believe that God is one. Good for you! Even the demons believe that?and shudder.

Revelation 12:12
Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea; with great fury the devil has come down to you, knowing he has only a short time.?

Revelation 20:10
And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

2 Peter 2:4
For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them deep into hell, placing them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

Jude 1:6
And the angels who did not stay within their own domain but abandoned their proper dwelling?these He has kept in eternal chains under darkness, bound for judgment on that great day.
   
It seems these angels / messengers are bound, only to be let loose for the end times correct ?

Are they or some still roaming freely now upon mankind?

I guess my main question is this, are the evil spirits separated from mankind and mankind is saved by Gods mercy only?

Thank you for your help.

I could only give an answer to the best of my ability if I knew firstly what are you understanding is an: 'evil spirit' or a: 'demon' or angel/messenger? 
Most of 'christendom' (I believe) understands such things entirely wrong, and has more a: 'hollywood' (fake/carnal/soulish) understanding of such things.

Like; when you read about the: 'sinning angels kept in chains until judgement' - what comes to your mind? 
Are you thinking about godly folks who knew the truth but yet rebelled against God (and therefore cannot be 'freed' until a later time from their chains), or are you thinking about something more... hollywood?

Because you say things like: 

Are they or some still roaming freely now upon mankind?

... Which (to me) sounds a bit... Hollywood (possession/erorcist) sort of thing which I don't find at all scriptural.

#100

Discussions on Universal Salvation / Re: wheel within wheel?

Last post by rosered - December 18, 2025, 01:57:01 PM

Wheel within wheel: interesting similarity within incredible engineering, like a watch for instance- many little cogs/wheels, which work at different rates and directions  yet are precise in the outcome.
Vehicles drive along at varying speeds and loads, yet they too have wheels of different sizes and forms.
History has many different events but great similarity of motive/objective but seem to repeat over and over.
Ecclesiastes points this out.
IMO this seems to be like this so many people and generations go through problems and ethical issues to learn about the depth of creation and perceive the system necessary for true equality along with mutual respect for positive outcomes.
Our current state of being has selfish ambition, superiority, lust, pride,... Christ gave the demonstration that doesn't show that sort of behaviour and values as how we should live. His wheels within wheels are working to head us in the right direction empowered by His power and love.

  This is a beautiful answer Ross
  Thank you .

Yes it is true   in Word and in deed   That ''all things'' work together for the good of those whom love the Lord and are called according to His purpose .

Seems evil has its purpose to change us for the short time we are exposed to it.  70 years and 80 by Gods strength working in mankind.
   
Even 1000 years is only one day in Gods sight  :HeartThrob:

  Getting this perspective has to be taught by the Holy Spirit and His Word.

Like seeing the forest a bigger picture in your mind's eye that just seeing the trees, or men as trees walking.
 

  Adam experienced evil for 930 years while being flesh and blood, I considered he never knew evil but more of on a personal level, and experiences ,

  like now we have all this evil at our fingertips and see massive evil working in the world compared to how it was, the increase is very much heavier since knowledge has increased.

The Word of God tells us so and so it is.