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#51
Discussions on Universal Salvation / Re: What do you think of I Tim...
Last post by Ross - February 04, 2026, 02:05:29 AMAlso mentioned by Paul when writing to the Romans: 13:1-3
#52
Discussions on Universal Salvation / What do you think of Malachi 3...
Last post by ghost kid - February 03, 2026, 02:03:02 AMWhat do you think of Malachi 3:2-3?I like it! :Sparkletooth:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Malachi%203%3A2-3%3F&version=KJV
I got this from the above weblink:
Malachi 3:2-3
King James Version
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness.
Read full chapter
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Malachi%203%3A2-3%3F&version=KJV
I got this from the above weblink:
Malachi 3:2-3
King James Version
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness.
Read full chapter
#53
Discussions on Universal Salvation / Re: What do you think of I Tim...
Last post by darryl - February 02, 2026, 01:13:28 PMits a great verse !
#54
Discussions on Universal Salvation / What do you think of I Tim. 2:...
Last post by ghost kid - February 01, 2026, 05:24:38 AMWhat do you think of I Tim. 2:1?
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=I%20Tim.%202%3A1&version=KJV
I got this from the above weblink:
1 Timothy 2:1
King James Version
2 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
Read full chapter
1 Timothy 2:1 in all English translations
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=I%20Tim.%202%3A1&version=KJV
I got this from the above weblink:
1 Timothy 2:1
King James Version
2 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
Read full chapter
1 Timothy 2:1 in all English translations
#55
Judgement and Punishment / Re: Question for a list on bib...
Last post by ghost kid - January 26, 2026, 01:19:18 AMQuote from: ghost kid on January 19, 2026, 04:28:02 AM
I want you to list all the bible verses that you know of were you can be forgiven of atheism after you die.
I found three:
1 Peter 3:19
and
1 Peter 4:6
And
1 Corinthians 15:29
#56
Judgement and Punishment / Re: Question for a list on bib...
Last post by Ross - January 21, 2026, 01:14:39 AMThe verses about all being saved does include atheists, Muslims, Buddhist,....
The process includes them all.
Those corrected in the afterlife will go through the second death, lake of fire.
They will also not be in the first resurrection.
The process includes them all.
Those corrected in the afterlife will go through the second death, lake of fire.
They will also not be in the first resurrection.
#57
Judgement and Punishment / Question for a list on bible v...
Last post by ghost kid - January 19, 2026, 04:28:02 AMI want you to list all the bible verses that you know of were you can be forgiven of atheism after you die.
#58
Discussions on Universal Salvation / Do you believe in ghosts?
Last post by ghost kid - January 17, 2026, 04:38:13 AMDo you believe in ghosts?
I found a christian website that does.
https://www.bible.ca/d-death=departure.htm
I found it in the weblink above.
"I think I saw a ghost!" (Jesus' Disciples)
Click to View
The disciples, who had spent 3 years with Jesus, clearly believed that the spirits of dead men continued in some form of conscious existence and did not cease to exist and become extinct. On two occasions, (one before the cross, once after) Jesus' disciples thought He was a ghost!
Greek: "Phantasma" a phantasm or phantom
Mk 6:47-51; Mt 14:26
before Jesus death
"And when it was evening, the boat was in the midst of the sea, and He was alone on the land. And seeing them straining at the oars, for the wind was against them, at about the fourth watch of the night, He came to them, walking on the sea; and He intended to pass by them. But when they saw Him walking on the sea, they supposed that it was a ghost (Gr: Phantasma), [they were frightened, saying, "It is a ghost (Gr: Phantasma) Mt 14:26] and cried out; for they all saw Him and were frightened. But immediately He spoke with them and said to them, "Take courage; it is I, do not be afraid."
Lk 24:36-39
after Jesus death
And while they were telling these things, He Himself stood in their midst. But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing a spirit (Gr: pneuma). And He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? "See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit (Gr: pneuma) does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."
Jesus stood in disciples midst after raising from the dead and they thought they were seeing a spirit.
Notice that Jesus doesn't say, "silly disciples, didn't you learn anything after me spending 3 years teaching you! Spirits of dead men don't exist, they are extinct!"
Instead, he admitted the existence of the departed spirits of men but added that He could not be a departed spirit because, unlike a spirit, Jesus had flesh and bones!
Acts 23:6-9
"But perceiving that one part were Sadducees and the other Pharisees, Paul began crying out in the Council, "Brethren, I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees; I am on trial for the hope and resurrection of the dead!" And as he said this, there arose a dissension between the Pharisees and Sadducees; and the assembly was divided. For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, nor an angel, nor a spirit; but the Pharisees acknowledge them all. And there arose a great uproar; and some of the scribes of the Pharisaic party stood up and began to argue heatedly, saying, "We find nothing wrong with this man; suppose a spirit or an angel has spoken to him?"
Sadducees deny angel & spirit but Paul & Pharisees accept them
The word "spirit" refers to departed spirits of men. It cannot refer to God as a Spirit, for they believed God is a Spirit. The fact that "angel and spirit" are both listed together, proves that spirit refers to human departed spirits not the spirits of angels etc.
Important to note that Sadducees are theologically identical to Jw's, Christadelphians, SDA's and H. W. Armstrong in their view of the nature of man. Paul, through the Holy Spirit refuted them and sided with the Pharisees!
I found a christian website that does.
https://www.bible.ca/d-death=departure.htm
I found it in the weblink above.
"I think I saw a ghost!" (Jesus' Disciples)
Click to View
The disciples, who had spent 3 years with Jesus, clearly believed that the spirits of dead men continued in some form of conscious existence and did not cease to exist and become extinct. On two occasions, (one before the cross, once after) Jesus' disciples thought He was a ghost!
Greek: "Phantasma" a phantasm or phantom
Mk 6:47-51; Mt 14:26
before Jesus death
"And when it was evening, the boat was in the midst of the sea, and He was alone on the land. And seeing them straining at the oars, for the wind was against them, at about the fourth watch of the night, He came to them, walking on the sea; and He intended to pass by them. But when they saw Him walking on the sea, they supposed that it was a ghost (Gr: Phantasma), [they were frightened, saying, "It is a ghost (Gr: Phantasma) Mt 14:26] and cried out; for they all saw Him and were frightened. But immediately He spoke with them and said to them, "Take courage; it is I, do not be afraid."
Lk 24:36-39
after Jesus death
And while they were telling these things, He Himself stood in their midst. But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing a spirit (Gr: pneuma). And He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? "See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit (Gr: pneuma) does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."
Jesus stood in disciples midst after raising from the dead and they thought they were seeing a spirit.
Notice that Jesus doesn't say, "silly disciples, didn't you learn anything after me spending 3 years teaching you! Spirits of dead men don't exist, they are extinct!"
Instead, he admitted the existence of the departed spirits of men but added that He could not be a departed spirit because, unlike a spirit, Jesus had flesh and bones!
Acts 23:6-9
"But perceiving that one part were Sadducees and the other Pharisees, Paul began crying out in the Council, "Brethren, I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees; I am on trial for the hope and resurrection of the dead!" And as he said this, there arose a dissension between the Pharisees and Sadducees; and the assembly was divided. For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, nor an angel, nor a spirit; but the Pharisees acknowledge them all. And there arose a great uproar; and some of the scribes of the Pharisaic party stood up and began to argue heatedly, saying, "We find nothing wrong with this man; suppose a spirit or an angel has spoken to him?"
Sadducees deny angel & spirit but Paul & Pharisees accept them
The word "spirit" refers to departed spirits of men. It cannot refer to God as a Spirit, for they believed God is a Spirit. The fact that "angel and spirit" are both listed together, proves that spirit refers to human departed spirits not the spirits of angels etc.
Important to note that Sadducees are theologically identical to Jw's, Christadelphians, SDA's and H. W. Armstrong in their view of the nature of man. Paul, through the Holy Spirit refuted them and sided with the Pharisees!
#59
Judgement and Punishment / Re: theosis
Last post by DavidFord - January 09, 2026, 04:46:48 AM"I do not believe in the deification of a man in the way it seems to be described there"
Do you agree with this?:
2 Corinthians 3:18
"And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord?s glory,
are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory,
which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit."
https://x.com/i/grok/share/iBBnmNoDxq0b77pXZWDTZu3QS
Theosis, or deification, refers to the Christian doctrine (particularly emphasized in Eastern Orthodox theology) of humans participating in or becoming like God's divine nature through grace, without losing their humanity.
While the term itself isn't explicitly in the Bible, several verses are commonly cited as supporting this transformative union with God.
Below is a selection of key passages, drawn from scriptural interpretations across theological sources. I've included the verse reference, a quote from the New International Version (NIV) for clarity, and a brief explanation of its relevance.
| Verse Reference | Text (NIV) | Relevance to Theosis | |-----------------|------------|----------------------| |
Genesis 1:26-27 | "Then God said, 'Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness...' So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them." | Establishes humanity's original creation in God's image, implying a potential for restoration and growth toward divine likeness through salvation. | |
Psalm 82:6 | "I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'" | Affirms humans as "gods" (elohim) in a participatory sense, highlighting elevated status as children of God. | |
Matthew 5:48 | "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." | Commands believers to emulate God's perfection, suggesting a call to divine transformation and holiness. | |
John 10:34-36 | "Jesus answered them, 'Is it not written in your Law, "I have said you are 'gods'"? If he called them "gods," to whom the word of God came?and Scripture cannot be set aside?what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world?'" |
Jesus quotes Psalm 82 to defend his divinity, implying believers can share in a godlike status through union with him. | |
Romans 8:29 | "For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters." | Describes predestination to be shaped into Christ's image, pointing to progressive deification as siblings in the divine family. | |
Romans 12:1-2 | "Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God?s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God?this is your true and proper worship. Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind." | Calls for transformation and renewal, aligning with theosis as a sacrificial participation in God's holiness. | |
2 Corinthians 3:18 | "And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord?s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit." | Depicts ongoing transformation into God's glory, a core expression of becoming divine through the Spirit. | |
2 Corinthians 4:6 | "For God, who said, 'Let light shine out of darkness,' made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of God?s glory displayed in the face of Christ." | Suggests divine light and glory indwelling believers, supporting internal deification through Christ's revelation. | |
Ephesians 4:13 | "...until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ." | Aims at maturity in Christ's fullness, implying growth toward divine completeness. | |
2 Peter 1:3-4 | "His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires." | Explicitly states participation in the divine nature via God's promises and power, a foundational verse for theosis. | |
1 John 3:2 | "Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is." | Promises ultimate likeness to Christ, emphasizing eschatological deification through vision and union. |
These verses collectively illustrate themes of imaging God, transformation, and sharing in divine attributes. Interpretations vary by denomination?Eastern Orthodox see them as direct support for theosis, while some Protestant views emphasize sanctification without full deification.
For deeper study, consult theological commentaries or original Greek [better: Aramaic] texts.
Do you agree with this?:
2 Corinthians 3:18
"And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord?s glory,
are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory,
which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit."
https://x.com/i/grok/share/iBBnmNoDxq0b77pXZWDTZu3QS
Theosis, or deification, refers to the Christian doctrine (particularly emphasized in Eastern Orthodox theology) of humans participating in or becoming like God's divine nature through grace, without losing their humanity.
While the term itself isn't explicitly in the Bible, several verses are commonly cited as supporting this transformative union with God.
Below is a selection of key passages, drawn from scriptural interpretations across theological sources. I've included the verse reference, a quote from the New International Version (NIV) for clarity, and a brief explanation of its relevance.
| Verse Reference | Text (NIV) | Relevance to Theosis | |-----------------|------------|----------------------| |
Genesis 1:26-27 | "Then God said, 'Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness...' So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them." | Establishes humanity's original creation in God's image, implying a potential for restoration and growth toward divine likeness through salvation. | |
Psalm 82:6 | "I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'" | Affirms humans as "gods" (elohim) in a participatory sense, highlighting elevated status as children of God. | |
Matthew 5:48 | "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." | Commands believers to emulate God's perfection, suggesting a call to divine transformation and holiness. | |
John 10:34-36 | "Jesus answered them, 'Is it not written in your Law, "I have said you are 'gods'"? If he called them "gods," to whom the word of God came?and Scripture cannot be set aside?what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world?'" |
Jesus quotes Psalm 82 to defend his divinity, implying believers can share in a godlike status through union with him. | |
Romans 8:29 | "For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters." | Describes predestination to be shaped into Christ's image, pointing to progressive deification as siblings in the divine family. | |
Romans 12:1-2 | "Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God?s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God?this is your true and proper worship. Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind." | Calls for transformation and renewal, aligning with theosis as a sacrificial participation in God's holiness. | |
2 Corinthians 3:18 | "And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord?s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit." | Depicts ongoing transformation into God's glory, a core expression of becoming divine through the Spirit. | |
2 Corinthians 4:6 | "For God, who said, 'Let light shine out of darkness,' made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of God?s glory displayed in the face of Christ." | Suggests divine light and glory indwelling believers, supporting internal deification through Christ's revelation. | |
Ephesians 4:13 | "...until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ." | Aims at maturity in Christ's fullness, implying growth toward divine completeness. | |
2 Peter 1:3-4 | "His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires." | Explicitly states participation in the divine nature via God's promises and power, a foundational verse for theosis. | |
1 John 3:2 | "Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is." | Promises ultimate likeness to Christ, emphasizing eschatological deification through vision and union. |
These verses collectively illustrate themes of imaging God, transformation, and sharing in divine attributes. Interpretations vary by denomination?Eastern Orthodox see them as direct support for theosis, while some Protestant views emphasize sanctification without full deification.
For deeper study, consult theological commentaries or original Greek [better: Aramaic] texts.
#60
Discussions on Universal Salvation / Re: What do you think of this?...
Last post by Ross - January 02, 2026, 01:20:39 AMEverything progressing in stages so that we can be shown the difference between good and bad, love and hate,selfish and mutual respect.
Paul said " when I was a child I thought like a child, when I became a man I gave up childish ways.:
I remember thinking I knew a lot: now I see the Lord as my source for wisdom and knowledge.
He displayed what real love means and completely corrected my values.
Paul said " when I was a child I thought like a child, when I became a man I gave up childish ways.:
I remember thinking I knew a lot: now I see the Lord as my source for wisdom and knowledge.
He displayed what real love means and completely corrected my values.