Ecc 3 ;11

[rosered]

God's Works Remain Forever


?10I have seen the burden that God has laid upon the sons of men to occupy them.

11 He has made everything beautiful in its time.

He has also set eternity in the hearts of men, yet they cannot fathom the work that God has done from beginning to end.

12I know that there is nothing better for them than to rejoice and do good while they live,?

I do believe God has made a beautiful world in our hearts , when full of the faith, hope and Love of God that expresses and flows from His mercy and grace , those gifts are from Our Lord Jesus Christ , sharing and caring are what opens us up

God has shown me that one person can and does make a difference in a beautiful way and also in a cruel way, I have experienced both and been both, but it all works together for the good till the perfect comes in Gods time.

[rosered]

My question is this?

  When two are grinding at the wheel one is taken and the other left, should this be taken literally? Or is there a spiritual understanding to it ?    I was thinking along the lines of being born literally and then being born again from above.

  Both serve a purpose?

Readiness at Any Hour


?40Two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left.

41Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. 42Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day on which your Lord will come.?



Luke 17:34-35
I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed: one will be taken and the other left. / Two women will be grinding grain together: one will be taken and the other left.?

Matthew 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat into my barn.??

Matthew 13:49
So will it be at the end of the age: The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous

Matthew 25:32
All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate the people one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.

Matthew 25:10
But while they were on their way to buy it, the bridegroom arrived. Those who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet, and the door was shut.

Matthew 25:13
Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.

[GodSavesAll]

My question is this?

  When two are grinding at the wheel one is taken and the other left, should this be taken literally? Or is there a spiritual understanding to it ?    I was thinking along the lines of being born literally and then being born again from above.

Rose, hope all is well.

My take...

The wheat (spiritual) and tares (unspiritual) grow together (side by side) (two people working at the millstone next to each other (etc)). 
The spiritual are indeed PHYSICALLY: 'in' the world, yet not: 'of' it, and they look for a: 'new' home (where dwells righteousness) - they are: 'different' from the world and have: 'come out to be separated from them' - seated amongst the celestials (that meaning:- those in: 'higher' places) - their minds on things: 'higher'... things: 'above' (and not things below (earthy)).  'Sifted'.

And thus; though two are working side-by-side PHYSICALLY... There is MUCH SPIRITUAL distinction between them. 
The unspiritual does not perceive this: 'difference' - (being unspiritual, thus unawares of things of God), but the spiritual does; also due to the fact that they are STRANGERS on earth (earth is not their home). Yeah they live and work here, but their minds are somewhere else entirely.

The main thing for me is to let spirit guide me and not: 'letter'.
That: 'saved' me from: 'heeding' badly translated scripture versions when I was growing up; (whilst most of the world believed in (and accepted) a: 'god' who was the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of love... (an everlasting torturer)))... They trusted the: 'letter' - not the spirit... Not truth.

Only those NOT led by: 'spirit' 'CAN' be deceived/be misled.
Most, though are led by: 'the letter' - a letter which is greatly mis-translated and even more greater still... Mis-understood.

[Ross]

 :thumbsup:
Spiritual difference to the flesh is reality.
1 Corinthians 2:14-16
Agree about the concept that there is that one taken is transferred to the kingdom of God yet is still right next to family and friends who have not yet experienced that transfer.
Also consider the reality of those taken as first fruit before the millennium and those who are not watching the event. That would demonstrate that the changes are reality with no more speculation or varying opinions

[GodSavesAll]

:thumbsup:
Spiritual difference to the flesh is reality.
1 Corinthians 2:14-16
Agree about the concept that there is that one taken is transferred to the kingdom of God yet is still right next to family and friends who have not yet experienced that transfer.
Also consider the reality of those taken as first fruit before the millennium and those who are not watching the event. That would demonstrate that the changes are reality with no more speculation or varying opinions

I totally agree with this.

I believe (according to the scriptures) that one 'day' our souls will be resurrected accordingly as to how we lived (whilst in the body)... Some will be resurrected to: (aionian) 'life' and others to the judgement of another death for further correction.

I believe we will be where we need to be (for our ultimate/eternal benefit).

It's all good.  It's all God!   :HeartThrob:

[Ross]

 :iagree: further correction: spot on. :thumbsup:

[rosered]

Thank you so much for the replies and good answers .  G.S.A & Ross

I understand ''humanity '' in Adam all die. and in Christ all are made alive.

I totally agree the Holy Spirit is the Only teacher of Truth .

I question these wicked /evil spirits that are not of God, Jesus' reply is what made me wonder about it.


   The evil spirit that was tormenting and using mankind /a man to work evil .    Asked JESUS, Did you come to torment us before the appointed time ?


  These in Matt 8;29 and these other scriptures ?

Mark 5:7
And he shouted in a loud voice, ?What do You want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg You before God not to torture me!?

Luke 8:28
When the man saw Jesus, he cried out and fell down before Him, shouting in a loud voice, ?What do You want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg You not to torture me!?

James 2:19
You believe that God is one. Good for you! Even the demons believe that?and shudder.

Revelation 12:12
Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea; with great fury the devil has come down to you, knowing he has only a short time.?

Revelation 20:10
And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

2 Peter 2:4
For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them deep into hell, placing them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

Jude 1:6
And the angels who did not stay within their own domain but abandoned their proper dwelling?these He has kept in eternal chains under darkness, bound for judgment on that great day.
   
It seems these angels / messengers are bound, only to be let loose for the end times correct ?

Are they or some still roaming freely now upon mankind?

I guess my main question is this, are the evil spirits separated from mankind and mankind is saved by Gods mercy only?

Thank you for your help.

[GodSavesAll]

Thank you so much for the replies and good answers .  G.S.A & Ross

I understand "humanity " in Adam all die. and in Christ all are made alive.

I totally agree the Holy Spirit is the Only teacher of Truth .

I question these wicked /evil spirits that are not of God, Jesus' reply is what made me wonder about it.


   The evil spirit that was tormenting and using mankind /a man to work evil .    Asked JESUS, Did you come to torment us before the appointed time ?


  These in Matt 8;29 and these other scriptures ?

Mark 5:7
And he shouted in a loud voice, ?What do You want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg You before God not to torture me!?

Luke 8:28
When the man saw Jesus, he cried out and fell down before Him, shouting in a loud voice, ?What do You want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg You not to torture me!?

James 2:19
You believe that God is one. Good for you! Even the demons believe that?and shudder.

Revelation 12:12
Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! But woe to the earth and the sea; with great fury the devil has come down to you, knowing he has only a short time.?

Revelation 20:10
And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

2 Peter 2:4
For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them deep into hell, placing them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

Jude 1:6
And the angels who did not stay within their own domain but abandoned their proper dwelling?these He has kept in eternal chains under darkness, bound for judgment on that great day.
   
It seems these angels / messengers are bound, only to be let loose for the end times correct ?

Are they or some still roaming freely now upon mankind?

I guess my main question is this, are the evil spirits separated from mankind and mankind is saved by Gods mercy only?

Thank you for your help.

I could only give an answer to the best of my ability if I knew firstly what are you understanding is an: 'evil spirit' or a: 'demon' or angel/messenger? 
Most of 'christendom' (I believe) understands such things entirely wrong, and has more a: 'hollywood' (fake/carnal/soulish) understanding of such things.

Like; when you read about the: 'sinning angels kept in chains until judgement' - what comes to your mind? 
Are you thinking about godly folks who knew the truth but yet rebelled against God (and therefore cannot be 'freed' until a later time from their chains), or are you thinking about something more... hollywood?

Because you say things like: 

Are they or some still roaming freely now upon mankind?

... Which (to me) sounds a bit... Hollywood (possession/erorcist) sort of thing which I don't find at all scriptural.

[rosered]

I was referring to what Jesus was doing ,  Just His presence. this example

Mark 5:7
And he shouted in a loud voice, ?What do You want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg You before God not to torture me!?  8For Jesus had already declared, ?Come out of this man, you unclean spirit!?

  Thanks for answering.

I am still learning is all.  Found some very interesting scriptures. I believe the Bible is the Word of God.

[GodSavesAll]

I was referring to what Jesus was doing ,  Just His presence. this example

Mark 5:7
And he shouted in a loud voice, ?What do You want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg You before God not to torture me!?  8For Jesus had already declared, ?Come out of this man, you unclean spirit!?

  Thanks for answering.

I am still learning is all.  Found some very interesting scriptures. I believe the Bible is the Word of God.

#

Oh Rose, definitely, we are all learning for sure.
I'm only speaking as I understand and to try to help as best I can.
I believe wholeheartedly that what I am saying is true.

In Mark 5:7, what is happening (to me) is 'spiritual' (a spiritual event).

It's like...
...If I hear someone talk about a near death experience they had, and they describe an: 'angel' as being really tall, with a big flaming sword, and with a halo and large feathery wings... I'm a bit reluctant to believe them because it's so... 'Hollywood'.
HOWEVER...  'Spiritually' (in spirit); I know (from personal experience) ,that we see things 'spiritually'...
...What I mean is this...
...Say someone has a vision of satan... Well they may well see a large, hooded, cloaked, dark, wicked-looking... entitiy... The 'personification' of evil if you like.
Yet; at the same time; the devil (evil) doesn't 'really' have an 'appearance' as such (physically).
We don't 'see' God physically as such either, - yet 'spiritually' we do see Him (I.E: in Christ), in works of love (and so on).  This is how we recognize God IN Christ (in the second/spiritual man).

So when the demon is: 'communicating' with Jesus - I'm understanding that as a spiritual 'conversation'/event.

Now 'spirit' would be meaning: 'attitude' (or mindset).  EG:- "She was in good spirits", or: "That's the spirit!" (When someone adopts the 'right' attitude).
So an evil spirit would be an evil attitude/mindset, or a 'wrong' mindset (one in opposition to 'right' (I.E:- GOD).

So in Mark 5:7:- The evil within the man was recognizing that Jesus could cast 'him' out (I.E. - The man would be parted from his sins (and how we cling to our beloved sins like sick dogs!)), and it is: 'torturous' to be 'cleansed' of sin/purified of evil. - It is corrective yet seems like punishment. - A painful process indeed!
And Jesus has the power to do that.

When Jesus speaks (as the song says); even the darkness hides!

I have had people FLEE from me because I started to convince them that Jesus/God was a reality. 
They KNEW they would have to turn from their sins if they came to a full understanding/recognizing of Him and so they FLED.  "DON'T TORTURE ME JESUS!!!"  They ran off holding their ears!
When He is done with everyone - there won't be a TRACE of sin. - He will get all that is His, just as John says:
"He will burn up the chaff/rubbish with unquenchable fire".
No rubbish will survive.

Much love sister. 

[Ross]

Mankind is separated from the angels.
Hebrews 1:13,14
Hebrews 2:5
2 Peter 2:4 mentioned angels currently in bondage till the judgements start.
1 Corinthians 6:3 states we will be above them:
Revelations 20;10 Satan and sidekicks will go through the lake of fire.
The Great White Throne  of unlimited time .
Revelations 20:14 death and hades also dealt with.
All this before the New heaven and earth .
I wonder if the new city is created in the 1000 years/millennium

[rosered]

I was referring to what Jesus was doing ,  Just His presence. this example

Mark 5:7
And he shouted in a loud voice, ?What do You want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I beg You before God not to torture me!?  8For Jesus had already declared, ?Come out of this man, you unclean spirit!?

  Thanks for answering.

I am still learning is all.  Found some very interesting scriptures. I believe the Bible is the Word of God.

#

Oh Rose, definitely, we are all learning for sure.
I'm only speaking as I understand and to try to help as best I can.
I believe wholeheartedly that what I am saying is true.

In Mark 5:7, what is happening (to me) is 'spiritual' (a spiritual event).

It's like...
...If I hear someone talk about a near death experience they had, and they describe an: 'angel' as being really tall, with a big flaming sword, and with a halo and large feathery wings... I'm a bit reluctant to believe them because it's so... 'Hollywood'.
HOWEVER...  'Spiritually' (in spirit); I know (from personal experience) ,that we see things 'spiritually'...
...What I mean is this...
...Say someone has a vision of satan... Well they may well see a large, hooded, cloaked, dark, wicked-looking... entitiy... The 'personification' of evil if you like.
Yet; at the same time; the devil (evil) doesn't 'really' have an 'appearance' as such (physically).
We don't 'see' God physically as such either, - yet 'spiritually' we do see Him (I.E: in Christ), in works of love (and so on).  This is how we recognize God IN Christ (in the second/spiritual man).

So when the demon is: 'communicating' with Jesus - I'm understanding that as a spiritual 'conversation'/event.

Now 'spirit' would be meaning: 'attitude' (or mindset).  EG:- "She was in good spirits", or: "That's the spirit!" (When someone adopts the 'right' attitude).
So an evil spirit would be an evil attitude/mindset, or a 'wrong' mindset (one in opposition to 'right' (I.E:- GOD).

So in Mark 5:7:- The evil within the man was recognizing that Jesus could cast 'him' out (I.E. - The man would be parted from his sins (and how we cling to our beloved sins like sick dogs!)), and it is: 'torturous' to be 'cleansed' of sin/purified of evil. - It is corrective yet seems like punishment. - A painful process indeed!
And Jesus has the power to do that.

When Jesus speaks (as the song says); even the darkness hides!

I have had people FLEE from me because I started to convince them that Jesus/God was a reality. 
They KNEW they would have to turn from their sins if they came to a full understanding/recognizing of Him and so they FLED.  "DON'T TORTURE ME JESUS!!!"  They ran off holding their ears!
When He is done with everyone - there won't be a TRACE of sin. - He will get all that is His, just as John says:
"He will burn up the chaff/rubbish with unquenchable fire".
No rubbish will survive.

Much love sister.

   I love what you shared , its wonderful!

Thanking God for His great mercy!  I do understand it is a mindset !   and attitude ! I have found many times  in the WORD OF GOD the very answers and a mindset , that is set to understand By

  asking the Lord Jesus Christ , the gift giver , He is the truth and grace of God the Holy Father expressed to us , and wants us to be free from evil and all forms

When you dig in you are so blessed , many of us a given gifts of the Holy Spirit , just bits and when we share it adds to the WHOLE many more get blessed  , we all do .

What glorifies God as  a purposeful desire of God and His works being accomplished  , everyone is blessed  though our Lord Jesus Christ , He was the very first of his kind  to be born exposing the Sons of God , that was hidden for ages

The word he spoke to them  , he said you are clean 
big clue going from an   unclean spirt to a clean spirit by the washing of the water of the word  , when He come up out of the water during his Jordan washing the very showing of how its done 
the Father said this is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased, its obedience that honors the Father 
God says HEAR HIM

Jese tell his students , disciples , you are clean from this living Word I have spoken to you

no more unclean spirit working in them 
this is one of the clues  and mysteries solved , so many more to go 
but this is too long
  love and blessings and more of Him to all

[GodSavesAll]

Mankind is separated from the angels.
Hebrews 1:13,14
Hebrews 2:5
2 Peter 2:4 mentioned angels currently in bondage till the judgements start.
1 Corinthians 6:3 states we will be above them:
Revelations 20;10 Satan and sidekicks will go through the lake of fire.
The Great White Throne  of unlimited time .
Revelations 20:14 death and hades also dealt with.
All this before the New heaven and earth .
I wonder if the new city is created in the 1000 years/millennium

Hi Ross.
I never stated in my last post, but I do believe it is scriptural to say that there are 'angels' (messengers) who are IN a physical body and angels who are not. - Simply because - we are NOT our physicality.
However, the passages you sent have a very: 'physical' explanation, and it is only what: 'comes out' of someone that makes them unclean.  (So the whole 'possession' thing is hollywood nonsense)....

If you look at Hebrews 13:2 it reads:-
"Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it".
These 'angels' were seen as just 'regular' people then, since the people showing them hospitality were not even aware they were angels.
That's because anyone heralding the ev-angel is an angel.
God = love.  So someone delivering a message of love = angel/messenger.

Hebrews 1:13-14 emphasizes the superiority of Jesus over messengers, stating that no messenger was invited to sit at God's right hand, a position of honor and authority. 
You see... Jesus' disciples (his 'evangelists/angels/messengers/agents asked about whether they could sit at his 'right' hand or not. 
The passage also describes messengers as ministering 'attitudes' sent to serve those who will inherit salvation.
I am a minister 'attitude' (messenger), as are you. 
I serve humanity - trying to lead them to the truth, as do you.
We are then: messengers (administering spirits/attitudes)... evangelists... bringing the gospel/evangel.
There is nothing here about some bodyless 'ghostly-spirits' going around helping humanity. - That's pure hollywood/mainstream/wordly nonsense.

2 Peter 2:4.
As I stated in my last post concerning this passage; these: 'angels' were people who 'knew' the truth, yet STILL chose to rebel.  Later in Peter, he refers to such as: 'twice dead' and that it would have been better if they had not known the proper Way than to know the Holy command and then turn from It. - With no hope of salvation in this age now (having blasphemed no-doubt the Holy Spirit); they are held in 'chains' (not literally) UNTIL the judgement.
The passage merely says that God doesn't EVEN spare sinning messengers (nevermind the rest of humanity!), since:
"...if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?" 1 Peter 4:18-19.
Again, there is nothing here about bodyless ghostly-type spirits, but rather a 'hard' command to keep striving to do our best for the Kingdom (even if we have turned from God in the past).
"Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are convinced of better things in your case, - the things that have to do with salvation". (HEBREWS 6:9).  (Renewed unto repentence).

1 Corinthians 6:3 states that believers will judge: 'angels' (messengers).  Of course! - The Saints judge the WHOLE world, since it is God operating through them, and so they will judge each other. - They are the only ones fit TOO judge (because they KNOW (and practice) TRUTH). ("What you bind on earth - bound in heaven") (etc), and so they will judge the 'judges' (so to speak). - Even themselves.
Scripture states God judges nobody but entrusts judgement to the Son.  The Son says he comes not to judge but to save.  Paul says:- "I don't even judge myself."  :LH:
Judging:- meaning to make decisions about - decisions of truth justice and love for ultimate benefit of any offender and for all.
The 'truth' Itself (real-ity), the 'Word' will judge. - A person reaps what they sow.
The passage here is simply making a comparison - showing a distinction with earthly affairs and spiritual affairs...
"Have you not seen so as to know that we shall continue shifting, separating, evaluating and making decisions about agents - why not, indeed, the affairs and business matters of everyday life?
In other words... We are in charge of the PERPETUALLY HIGHEST JUDGING, so why can't you make decisions about tiny insignificant earthly, everyday 'trifles' that last for less than an eye-blink?

Revelations 20;10
Here evil itself (d)evil is indeed destroyed (by GoOD/love). - How can it 'end' (omega) any other Way? - (When God IS The end and God IS The Way)?  (and love).
Evil is destroyed along with the beast (evils' physical manifestation on earth) along with the false prophet/antichrist - those in oppostion to God.
I get the feeling you are seeing these: 'three' as three: 'beings' alone? - And not as say: the 'mass' of humanity (which they depict) (prostitute sitting upon beast that sits on many waters (peoples)) (etc)?, the 'evil spirit' (ungodly(attitude)) of the world(ly)?

I could go on if you wanted me to Ross, but I am in quite poor health, so can't sit at a computer too long.

I would only want to chat further about this if it was beneficial for you in any way.

[rosered]

Mankind is separated from the angels.
Hebrews 1:13,14
Hebrews 2:5
2 Peter 2:4 mentioned angels currently in bondage till the judgements start.
1 Corinthians 6:3 states we will be above them:
Revelations 20;10 Satan and sidekicks will go through the lake of fire.
The Great White Throne  of unlimited time .
Revelations 20:14 death and hades also dealt with.
All this before the New heaven and earth .
I wonder if the new city is created in the 1000 years/millennium

   Thank you Ross for your summary, in as few words as possible, with impact  to the facts /Truth , you are a treasure.  I know how God loves us all and gave Himself for us .


I love how you shared and cared enough to answer!   

To me it has always been a matter of perspective, How we see and hear and understand by  the gifts of God though our Lord Jesus Christ  and the ability to help the increase of Gods kingdom

  come and will be done on earth as it is in heaven
 
By sharing the bread of life and living water with others , that we consider more valuable than all the world , set in our hearts .

I just wanted to say this is for me thinking and not that I really know it all , I confess I do not , but do know enough to Know the ONE who does and its is a perfect WORKING OF ALL THINGS

Together  for the good of all , till the perfect comes and everyone is set free at last

I do believe the hidden things have been going on since the world began and this exercise in learning obedience to the will of God , has been hidden from our eyes and every discovery is life quickening, we crave more and more of Him .
I know God loves us all so very much and wants us to ask Him and the personal revealing of Christ in us , this anointing in us continues to the full end of all things of the here and now  .

  Every Word is Life to us by His hand and what has to die in us does and it is a beautiful working of the Holy Spirit alone that does this very thing.

We love Him for it , to know Him is to love Him , there will be no denying this .

I found something yesterday and it was brilliant  , I hope to share it soon because it is way to beautiful not to. and so many have helped along the way , just because one is given a gift is no

reason to despise the messenger, it really is the message that we are to accept or reject, this is our own determination to judge and be judged by what we are willing to receive or reject

  the TRUTH . 
But the truth has to remain and be processed in us , this is where the enduring till the end become difficult to go though . 
God is amazing , the great I AM is life changing , going from life to life and a better resurrection each time we go through it, it's our cross to bear and to know the glory of God from it all.

all things are yours

life and death are yours


21Therefore, stop boasting in men. All things are yours,

22whether Paul or Apollos or Cephase or the world or life or death or the present or the future.

  All of them belong to you, 23and you belong to Christ, and Christ belongs to God. :HeartThrob:   the process of changing us from something awful to something  hagios HOLY innocent
 
messengers of death to messengers of Life we are His witnesses to the Glory of GOD the Holy FATHER though our Lord Jes?s CHRIST   
made this to long sorry
Gods blessings , we bless Him because HE BLESSUS US ,LOVE is always  complete and shared and of the WHOLE in perfection = entire an all in all  End
 
This is how the saints holy ones  glorify God , precious in His sight and the death of His saints  , they go on from life to a more abundant life complete into perfection .

[rosered]

Mankind is separated from the angels.
Hebrews 1:13,14
Hebrews 2:5
2 Peter 2:4 mentioned angels currently in bondage till the judgements start.
1 Corinthians 6:3 states we will be above them:
Revelations 20;10 Satan and sidekicks will go through the lake of fire.
The Great White Throne  of unlimited time .
Revelations 20:14 death and hades also dealt with.
All this before the New heaven and earth .
I wonder if the new city is created in the 1000 years/millennium

Hi Ross.
I never stated in my last post, but I do believe it is scriptural to say that there are 'angels' (messengers) who are IN a physical body and angels who are not.  Simply because - we are NOT our physicality.
However, the passages you sent have a very 'physical' explanation...

If you look at Hebrews 13:2 it reads:-
"Do not forget to show hospitality to strangers, for by so doing some people have shown hospitality to angels without knowing it".
These 'angels' were seen as just 'regular' people then, since the people showing them hospitality were not even aware they were angels.
That's because anyone heralding the ev-angel is an angel.
God = love.  So someone delivering a message of love = angel/messenger.

Hebrews 1:13-14 emphasizes the superiority of Jesus over messengers, stating that no messenger was invited to sit at God's right hand, a position of honor and authority. 
You see... Jesus' disciples (his 'evangelists asked about whether they could sit at his 'right' hand or not. 
The passage also describes messengers as ministering 'attitudes' sent to serve those who will inherit salvation.
I am a minister 'attitude' (messenger), as are you. 
I serve humanity - trying to lead them to the truth, as do you.
We are then: messengers (administering spirits/attitudes)... evangelists... bringing the gospel/evangel.
There is nothing here about some bodyless 'spirits' going around helping humanity.

2 Peter 2:4.
As I stated in my last post concerning this passage; these 'angels' were people who 'knew' the truth, yet STILL chose to rebel.  Later in Peter, he refers to such as: 'twice dead' and that it would have been better if they had not known the proper Way than to know the Holy command and then turn from It. - With no hope of salvation in this age now (having blasphemed no-doubt the Holy Spirit); they are held in 'chains' (not literally) UNTIL the judgement.
The passage merely says that God doesn't EVEN spare sinning messengers (nevermind the rest of humanity!), since:
"...if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?" 1 Peter 4:18-19.
Again, there is nothing here about bodyless spirits, but rather a 'hard' command to keep striving to do our best for the Kingdom (even if we have turned from God in the past).
"Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are convinced of better things in your case?the things that have to do with salvation". (HEBREWS 6:9).  (Renewed unto repentence).


1 Corinthians 6:3 states that believers will judge: 'angels' (messengers).  Of course! - The Saints judge the WHOLE world, since it is God operating through them, and so they will judge each other. - They are the only ones fit TOO judge (because they KNOW (and practice) TRUTH). ("What you bind on earth - bound in heaven") (etc). 
Judging:- meaning to make decisions about - decisions of truth justice and love for ultimate benefit of any offender and for all.
The passage here is simply making a comparison - showing a distinction with earthly affairs and spiritual affairs...
"Have you not seen so as to know that we shall continue shifting, separating, evaluating and making decisions about agents - why not, indeed, the affairs and business matters of everyday life?

Revelations 20;10
Here evil itself (d)evil is indeed destroyed (by GoOD/love). - How can it 'end' (omega) any other Way? - (When God IS The end and God IS The Way)? 
Evil is destroyed along with the beast (evils' physical manifestation on earth) along with the false prophet/antichrist/those in oppostion to God.
I get the feeling you are seeing these: 'three' as three: 'beings' alone? - And not as say: the 'mass' of humanity (which they depict) (prostitute sitting upon beast that sits on many waters (peoples)) (etc)?

I could go on if you wanted me to Ross, but I am in quite poor health, so can't sit at a computer too long.

I would only want to chat further about this if it was benificial for you in any way.

   Wonderful brother  :HeartThrob:

  I am always  pushed for time
  I wish I could share this discovery now
  what the Lord has given , its wonderful  to wonderful not to share it ,IT IS HELPFUL .
   Lord Jesus knows .   I love you all because I know the love of GOD IS GLORIOUS AND LOVES US ALL SO VERY MUCH

  It will be long ..   LOVE TO YOU ALL .. :HeartThrob:

[Ross]

All good thanks GodSavesAll. :thumbsup:

[rosered]

:thumbsup:
Spiritual difference to the flesh is reality.
1 Corinthians 2:14-16
Agree about the concept that there is that one taken is transferred to the kingdom of God yet is still right next to family and friends who have not yet experienced that transfer.
Also consider the reality of those taken as first fruit before the millennium and those who are not watching the event. That would demonstrate that the changes are reality with no more speculation or varying opinions

I totally agree with this.

I believe (according to the scriptures) that one 'day' our souls will be resurrected accordingly as to how we lived (whilst in the body)... Some will be resurrected to: (aionian) 'life' and others to the judgement of another death for further correction.

I believe we will be where we need to be (for our ultimate/eternal benefit).

It's all good.  It's all God!   :HeartThrob:

  Amen ! Obedience is key ! and can only be done by the new creature in Christ , born from above  though the WORD /seed of God and by His own Holy Spirit working in and by and though HIM

our own new eyes and ears, hearts , Healed by His saving grace  , we must keep putting off the old man of sin nature .

Therefore we do not lose heart. Though our outer self is wasting away, yet our inner self is being renewed day by day.


 

[rosered]

sharing this as I said ,  wonderful to learn, you might already know this , but it is new to me

about biding and loosing sins and forgiveness and  being corrected by the Lord .

keys to the kingdom  matt 16

Peter?s Confession of Christ
(Mark 8:27?30; Luke 9:18?20; John 6:67?71)

13When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, He questioned His disciples: ?Who do people say the Son of Man is??

14They replied, ?Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.?

15?But what about you?? Jesus asked. ?Who do you say I am??

16Simon Peter answered, ?You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.?

17Jesus replied, ?Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven.

  18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.

  19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.?

the rock solid truth is believing in Jesus Christ , the first born among the dead , One of a kind and first fruits of the new creation  nothing can stop this TRUTH

  what is the binding and loosing ?  releasing sins by forgiveness  , Jesus holy nature   and binding  holding one accountable to teach and  admonish


  the wrath of God abides on the children of disobedience ,its not the devil or evil spirits but Gods way to teaching us obedience is better than sacrifices

  JESUS sacrifice is all   GOD will accept  we must abide OBEY  in Him

one example of loosing sins was Stephens  death , a holy one  being full of the Holy Spirit  , his obedience was unto death of his flesh  , do not hold this to their charge

  making him alive forever more.


another example  is Paul's   holding  and loosing

14 Alexander the coppersmith did me great wrongs. The Lord will pay him back for his actions.


15 Beware of him yourself, for he opposed and resisted our message very strongly and exceedingly.

16 At my first trial no one acted in my defense [as my advocate] or took my part or [even] stood with me, but all forsook me. May it not be charged against them!

17 But the Lord stood by me and strengthened me, so that through me the [Gospel] message might be fully proclaimed, and all the Gentiles might hear it. So I was delivered out of the jaws of the lion.

18 [And indeed] the Lord will certainly deliver and draw me to Himself from every assault of evil.   


I saw what Paul says here , the presence of Our Lord Jesus Christ keeps us from evil .

He will preserve and bring me safe unto His heavenly kingdom. To Him be the glory forever and ever. Amen (so be it)

[rosered]

I have been looking into  your query Ross

All this before the New heaven and earth .
I wonder if the new city is created in the 1000 years/millennium

I wonder

   How can the new Jerusalem be the bride of Christ if she is the mother of us all?

  I am having some real questions on this 

Brides are not mothers ? 
I am still searching the scriptures

[GodSavesAll]

sharing this as I said ,  wonderful to learn, you might already know this , but it is new to me

about biding and loosing sins and forgiveness and  being corrected by the Lord .

keys to the kingdom  matt 16

Peter?s Confession of Christ
(Mark 8:27?30; Luke 9:18?20; John 6:67?71)

13When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, He questioned His disciples: ?Who do people say the Son of Man is??

14They replied, ?Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.?

15?But what about you?? Jesus asked. ?Who do you say I am??

16Simon Peter answered, ?You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.?

17Jesus replied, ?Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah! For this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in heaven.

  18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.

  19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.?

the rock solid truth is believing in Jesus Christ , the first born among the dead , One of a kind and first fruits of the new creation  nothing can stop this TRUTH

  what is the binding and loosing ?  releasing sins by forgiveness  , Jesus holy nature   and binding  holding one accountable to teach and  admonish


  the wrath of God abides on the children of disobedience ,its not the devil or evil spirits but Gods way to teaching us obedience is better than sacrifices

  JESUS sacrifice is all   GOD will accept  we must abide OBEY  in Him

one example of loosing sins was Stephens  death , a holy one  being full of the Holy Spirit  , his obedience was unto death of his flesh  , do not hold this to their charge

  making him alive forever more.


another example  is Paul's   holding  and loosing

14 Alexander the coppersmith did me great wrongs. The Lord will pay him back for his actions.


15 Beware of him yourself, for he opposed and resisted our message very strongly and exceedingly.

16 At my first trial no one acted in my defense [as my advocate] or took my part or [even] stood with me, but all forsook me. May it not be charged against them!

17 But the Lord stood by me and strengthened me, so that through me the [Gospel] message might be fully proclaimed, and all the Gentiles might hear it. So I was delivered out of the jaws of the lion.

18 [And indeed] the Lord will certainly deliver and draw me to Himself from every assault of evil.   


I saw what Paul says here , the presence of Our Lord Jesus Christ keeps us from evil .

He will preserve and bring me safe unto His heavenly kingdom. To Him be the glory forever and ever. Amen (so be it)

Binding and loosing (as far as I can tell) here is about Peter (the 'rock' (foundation) which the ecclesia is built upon) getting the 'keys' to the kingdom to make decisions on whether to 'allow' or 'not allow' certain things into it.

But it applies to all to some extent... Simply put; whatever people: 'allow' in their 'lives' (soul) (inner-person) it will be their experience/wages (reap = sow). - It can't be any other way.  :dontknow:  God is just. 
The 'wheels' are in motion (so to speak), and we may indeed get a lemon, but it's up to us to make a lemonade (turn the water to wine).

Paul spoke about people permitting other people to (happily) slap them over the face, exploit them (etc), - yet they rejected what was good for them, (whilst thinking they were wise and boasting).  (2 Corinthians 11:19).
- They will experience the consequences of what they accepted and what they rejected within themselves (soul/heavens)... aionan, for as long as they dwell in folly.

Jesus spoke about people 'straining' at a gnat but swallowing a camel.
Etc.

There are 'better' resurrections and 'LIFE' for sure; and much of it is to do with what people accept and reject.
...Rejecting truth/Christ isn't good!

Also; we can only make PROPER (well-informed!) decisions when we KNOW the truth (that is: 'Christ').
Peter recognized God in Christ (had the full truth) and thusly was 'qualified' to make such decisions. 
But it all depends how much someone has been 'given'. - To those given more - more will be asked of them. - Some are working for the kingdom now... Unawares!