Natural and Spiritual

[Molly]

sin will soon become obsolete..it is passing away

Just like the old covenant.  I hope so.  I am so sick of it.  Good riddance!

But, man has to know he can live without sin--so he will grow up.  The church tells man repeatedly he is a sinner--but look here, say these things and all will be well--go and sin another day...

[claypot]

Sheila you wrote...

I once heard a voice from heaven declare to me....

   "but man is Not responsible for sin"

I hear ya. I don't think the word 'responsibility' is the right word either although I've used it. You got me thinking. It's like man is. People are. Sure we make decisions and we reap what we sow but even our decisions come from who we are.

I think what I mean by being responsible is just realizing who we are and admitting it. We are works of God in progress and we are completed works of God. We admit we have some relationship with sin and death and we admit we have been 'saved' and are being 'saved' and will ultimately be 'saved' from sin and death.

We are not responsible for being created and being made capable of all the crap we do but we do reap what we sow, fact!

cp

[Zeek]

Zeek, you wrote....

creating, imo; is moving from "death to life".

via faith


so do you see "life" as needing to be further created?? 

I say 'Amen'. It's a process, a journey from death to life. Zeek, you describe it perfectly.

Life does not need to be created because It is! It does come into a dead situation and take over though.

cp

Ok, but I still struggle with your posts,

are you on that journey from death to life now, (part death, part life?)

or are you alive now?


If you see yourself as still being created, then I would take it you see yourself not "alive" yet??



1Jo 2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

Zeek, do you see that it is not a time thing here? I am being created and I am a finished creation. Can you understand this? It is hard for me to understand but I kind of see the truth of it.

cp

hi cp, i appreciate your responses to me, and totally respect where you are at and your humble reliance on our savior. 

when u say this "is not a time" issue;

do u think that is what John meant when he was writing to his fellow friends at that time; ie:

"hey guys, the darkness is past, and light now shineth; but not really; it appears that way, and actually is, but not really.  I don't mean "past" in the sense of time, but actually I kind of do; actually what i really mean is I'm calling something as done, even though it really isnt'; after all that's what God does; he said it's finsished; but he really didn't mean it, at least in the realm of time". 



do you see something as being different now (2000 years later) that allows you to "spiritualize" all scripture? or do you think that's what the first century christians were doing also. 

ie: in I John, John talks about antichrists coming into the world, that he called a "they".  Do you think those he wrote the letter to were supposed to really go, "oh he's talking about the inner me, the antichrist within me"??




1Jo 2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.




1Jo 2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him [that is] from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.


1Jo 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him [that is] from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.


   1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.


1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.


  1Jo 2:21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.


1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.


1Jo 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].



sincerly asking.

[sheila]

  cp  I know what you mean :thumbsup:

  we ARE instructed to follow Him...show love to our

brothers/freinds

  being willing to lay down our life..for them..to take it up anew

   being crucified in our flesh because some say we blaspheme

  the spirit of God

  Now, there is the physical fulfillment of that[literal]

  and a spiritual fulfillment.

  Now, if I be lifted UP, I will draw all men unto myself

  we know the literal...the disciples did that..died martyrs

  but I was thinking about the spiritual...they fulfilled it also
 in their walk..being persecuted and accused of blashemy
 for declaring the things revealed by the Holy spirit.and
 the word of God come in flesh

......such good things coming out here today

[Tony N]

Now Tony . . .if you're going to be a literalist, you have to be consistent with it .. .Scripture says nothing of "habitually" sinning . . .I've heard this argument before . . .you claim "we" change things so we can "hyper-spiritualize" (another of your "invented" words) and yet, you do the same thing.  If you are going to build your  belief system on what is literally written, then you can't be adding words that aren't there.

Nathan, thanks for your comments. I appreciate your thoughts on this matter. Since John said that "if a person does sin, they have an advocate with the Father" . . . and also said "everyone begotten of God is not doing sin" . . . there is a problem. If both statements are taken at face value then John has contradicted himself.

This whole argument with you and others like you is so messed up.  This is all based on a SPIRITUAL experience in Christ.  And yet you continue trying to hold the spiritual fort down with natural reasoning . . .jeeze . . .so here we go again . . .

John never wrote about the "in Christ" relationship.

If I am IN CHRIST . . .which not only is a person . .but it's also a dimension, a realm . . .a "kingdom" . . .If I am IN Christ, I am in the SPIRIT.  I am still a physical person, but as such, I have the ability to also be in spirit as well.  That's what separates us from animals.  And WHEN I see myself IN Christ . . .then I also am not measuring my outer court.  I'm not measuring my righteousness by my success and failures of obedience . . .therefore . . .I'm not focussing on missing the mark . .because I have entered into a realm of GRACE that covers my sin.

I appreciate your thoughts on the in Christ relationship. I too believe that is so for me as well, though the "in Christ" relationship is never spoken of as a "realm or kingdom".

If you want to live as an earth-dweller . .then you'll see nothing but sin and destruction . .but if you choose to live in a resurrected state, then you can see that the blood overrides the sin . .the inability to achieve righteousness through natural means.

I agree with what you just wrote above. Paul tells us to live our lives as if we are alive from among the dead (Romans 6:13) and be alive to God. I too try to do that.

You're not a sinner because you sin . . .you sin because you are a sinner . .you were BORN into being one.  It was totally out of your control due to the first Adam.  And just as being born into sin was out of your control . . .so is being redeemed back to God out of your control as well.  If you are in Christ, the sin is no longer of any affect . . therefore . . .you can walk SINLESS. 

In Romans 5 we are told (and I agree with you) that we sin due to death entering into us and that we were made sinners due to what Adam did. So, yes, I agree I was born into being a sinner. That is an excellent thought about it being out of our control. Excellent indeed.

Like everything else . .it's all in the perspective you choose to walk in.

But I wonder if John was writing about the "in Christ" relationship since he never mentions it in any of his writings.

Paul told the Cornithians that they were sinning:

1Co 8:11-12  For the weak one is perishing also by your knowledge; the brother because of whom Christ died.  (12)  Now in thus sinning against brethren, and beating their weak conscience, you are sinning against Christ."

And if it is impossible for one who is in Christ to sin, why did Paul write this:

2Co 12:21 Not again at my coming will my God be humbling me toward you, and I shall be mourning for many who have sinned before and are not repenting of the uncleanness and prostitution and wantonness which they commit."

2Co 13:2 I have declared before, and am predicting as when being present the second time, and now, being absent, to those having sinned before and to all the rest, that if I should be coming again, I shall not spare, "

1Tim. 5:20 Those who are sinning be exposing in the sight of all, that the rest also may have fear."

Tit 3:10-11  A sectarian man, after one and a second admonition, refuse,  (11)  being aware that such a one has turned himself out, and is sinning, being self-condemned."


The boy who had his father's mother was sinning.

[claypot]

Zeek, do you see that it is not a time thing here? I am being created and I am a finished creation. Can you understand this? It is hard for me to understand but I kind of see the truth of it.

cp

hi cp, i appreciate your responses to me, and totally respect where you are at and your humble reliance on our savior. 

when u say this "is not a time" issue;

do u think that is what John meant when he was writing to his fellow friends at that time; ie:

"hey guys, the darkness is past, and light now shineth; but not really; it appears that way, and actually is, but not really.  I don't mean "past" in the sense of time, but actually I kind of do; actually what i really mean is I'm calling something as done, even though it really isnt'; after all that's what God does; he said it's finsished; but he really didn't mean it, at least in the realm of time". 



do you see something as being different now (2000 years later) that allows you to "spiritualize" all scripture? or do you think that's what the first century christians were doing also. 

ie: in I John, John talks about antichrists coming into the world, that he called a "they".  Do you think those he wrote the letter to were supposed to really go, "oh he's talking about the inner me, the antichrist within me"??




1Jo 2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.




1Jo 2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him [that is] from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.


1Jo 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him [that is] from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.


   1Jo 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.


1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would [no doubt] have continued with us: but [they went out], that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.


  1Jo 2:21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.


1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.


1Jo 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].



sincerly asking.[/b]



[/quote][/b]

Me responding......

Man Zeek, you make me think! This is good. I get into a pattern in my thinking and it's good questions like yours that get me out of a rut.

First of all let me say that I am seeing Scripture as written in God's language which is the spirit. I do spiritualize Scripture but don't overlook all my other writings about how I know we live in what we call a physical realm and I do believe that Scripture describes actual physical life happenings. Science does not disprove the Bible, it enforces it. In Job Scripture talks about the earth hangs on nothing and way back when people believed the earth actually was suspended from some kind of string. The Bible teaches that the life is in the blood and people like Gearge Washington died from too much blood letting which was common practice in the old days. The Bible is a very factual Book when it comes to the physical but to me that is only it's secondary use. It's primary use is to get us to see God and His Home and our real home.

John, I believe, fully understood what he was saying and writing. He used the physical circumstances of his generation to teach spiritual truths. God clothes His deeper truth in the physical IMO. Like a treasure hid in a field. This does not make the Bible less accurate in the physical realm. The real treasure for me is not that Jesus had Gucci sandles but that His sandles represented something.

I can't do what some do. I can't say this is literal physically and this is literal spiritual. I can't do that. I can't pick and choose like that. I mean I could but I could never really trust my findings. It is like Jesus Himself, all spiritual and all physical. Jesus was 100% man and 100% God. A mystery of sorts.

Keep asking Brother.

cp

[sheila]

  the boy who had his father's mother is sinning.

 yep..sin still present...

...but jesus Christ will and does appear again...APART FROM SIN


   Isaaih 62; Zion's New Name....

   You will be called 'searched for" and your land 'married'

    as a young man marries a maiden, so WILL YOUR SONS

  MARRY YOU

  what missed the mark[or was error or sin] in fallen flesh

  APPEARS PERFECT AND BLAMELESS AND APART FROM SIN

     IN THE SPIRITUAL!

       Sheila

[claypot]

Zeek, you ask......

in I John, John talks about antichrists coming into the world, that he called a "they".  Do you think those he wrote the letter to were supposed to really go, "oh he's talking about the inner me, the antichrist within me"??

John looked at the physical world around him and saw much that is adversarial to God and it doesn't take a huge leap to see how much is adversarial to God within people.

In other words Zeek I see God is communicating to us on various levels. God says one thing but it will mean different things depending on where you are meeting Him. Pluck out your eye can mean to physically take your eye out or it can mean stop doing something. Both can be applied in a true way for benfit to a person but overall I see Scripture as always speaking of spiritual truths while only sometimes speaking of physical realities.

Make sense?

cp

[Molly]

Zeek, you ask......

in I John, John talks about antichrists coming into the world, that he called a "they".  Do you think those he wrote the letter to were supposed to really go, "oh he's talking about the inner me, the antichrist within me"??

John looked at the physical world around him and saw much that is adversarial to God and it doesn't take a huge leap to see how much is adversarial to God within people.

In other words Zeek I see God is communicating to us on various levels. God says one thing but it will mean different things depending on where you are meeting Him. Pluck out your eye can mean to physically take your eye out or it can mean stop doing something. Both can be applied in a true way for benfit to a person but overall I see Scripture as always speaking of spiritual truths while only sometimes speaking of physical realities.

Make sense?

cp

:director:    <----------Trumpet


Ok everyone--Stop sinning NOW.  Just stop.  We have no more time for sin.  No more flesh excuses.

Just STOP!

thank you...

[Nathan]

Tony . . . your question causes me to ask a question I've asked before . . .to "who" is the book written to . . .and "What was the maturity level" of those to whom it was written to?  

It was written to infant believers of an infant church.  Paul was the father as he was the one that birthed them into the kingdom of Christ.  And as such, the things being quoted now are intended to be followed literally, only by those to whom it was written to.  

For me, there is a spiritual progression from warring to resting.  It's a maturing process.  When I was younger . . .I'd rather fight you than reason with you.  Now that I'm older, I find there are so many more benefits to reasoning with one who's wanting to fight, rather than giving in and fighting back.  I'd like to think that the reason for this change of approach has much to do with maturity.

I beleive God wants a bride that not only can reproduce, but can take responsiblity as a parent, to become a father to that which she's reproducing.  Teenagers can have babies .  . . but are they mature enough to be parents?  So it's not just about being reproductive . . .  Paul was being a Father to "his" kids.

When we try to apply it the same way . .it won't work because those we're applying it to, 99.9% of the time, are not our kids . .they're our brothers and sisters.  When Paul is referring to the sin in others . . .he's talking spiritual baby talk   . . . we all focus on sin when we're young in our walk . .but as we enter into the maturity of rest . . . Scriptures like what we've been discussing here where we can not sin . . .those types of passages draw us out now because we're maturing enough to be able to see that sin isn't the focus . . .Christ is.

I believe this is also why Jesus told Peter to put his sword away . . . it does us no good to use the word of God . .the sword of the spirit . .  . to cut the ears off of each other as we think we must defend the ministry of Christ.  That was never the intention for the word of God to be used . . .the weapons must be turned into plowshares . . .it's not a book of weaponry, it's a book of seeds.  

Taf plants, Cardinal waters . . .and when awareness of truth manifests . .it is God who gets the increase.

[Tony N]

The title "antichrist" does not mean "against Christ." Rather, the Greek word is composed of "anti" and "christos" and literally means "instead"-"anointed."  He is not an opponent of Christ but rather a "false christ."

[Molly]

It was written to infant believers of an infant church.

Are you kidding me?  Those people towered over us.  Their shadows healed people.  They died for their faith.

And, then, very quickly, the antichrist came into the world and snatched the seed, reducing everyone back to baying sheep again.

[Taffy]

It was written to infant believers of an infant church.

Are you kidding me?  Those people towered over us.  Their shadows healed people.  They died for their faith.

And, then, very quickly, the antichrist came into the world and snatched the seed, reducing everyone back to baying sheep again.

No...Not one bit.

Tis the moving for many from one Generaton to another..from a Child under law to One Under Grace and Truth...

Can you imagine , centuries of The tradition of thier fathers , coming to a NEW understanding of the shadow they lived in?

The woman( judaism) who through TRAVAIL, a *SON IS BORN*such were many babes in Christ, therefore infants.... :icon_flower:

[Taffy]

The title "antichrist" does not mean "against Christ." Rather, the Greek word is composed of "anti" and "christos" and literally means "instead"-"anointed."  He is not an opponent of Christ but rather a "false christ."

wohooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

yes sirry......those who continued to SIT in Moses SEAT, even when their was a New testator  in their midst.

men stealers dude..thieves....Liars..adulterers...murderes .who will have their PART in the LAKE.... :icon_flower:

[Tony N]

I agree that Nicodemus misunderstood what Jesus was talking about. Even Jesus said he, being a teacher should know these things. The actual literal application of what Jesus was talking about was Israel, as a nation, being begotten anew in a day.

hello T.

i understand this interpretation but why did Jesus say:

Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

why didnt he just say ""nation""


thanks
chuckt

Good question!
The Greek does not have "a man". It has: EAN--MH--TIC "if ever--no--any" and should be

"Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, "Verily, verily, I am saying to you, If ever any should not be begotten of water and of spirit, can not be entering into the kingdom of God."

In John 3:7 Jesus said:
You (singular) should not be marveling that I said to you (singular), 'You (plural) must be begotten anew.'"

Nicodemus should have known this verse:

Isa 66:8 Who has heard a thing as this? And who has seen things as these? Shall a land be in travail in one day only? Should a nation be born at one time? When she travails, already Zion gives birth to her sons."

[Nathan]

It was written to infant believers of an infant church.

Are you kidding me?  Those people towered over us.  Their shadows healed people.  They died for their faith.

And, then, very quickly, the antichrist came into the world and snatched the seed, reducing everyone back to baying sheep again.

Molly . . .the ones you're referring to are the ones that did the writing and fathering . . .they were the church within the church . .so to speak.  Paul was not writing to Peter . .Paul was writing to Corinth, Ephesus, Coloss, Phillipi . . .he was writing to churches and people that he either single handedly, or assisted greatly in the birthing of them into Christ.

A good example of this comes in two-fold for me.  Back in 1906 when Azusa first took off . .oh, by the way . . the guy that sparked that revival was a dismembered pastor from a Methodist church.  He preached on the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the gifts . .even though he himself was never baptized . . . talk about moving in faith. 

Anyway, when the revival broke out . .people were being spirit filled left and right and things were just flippin' nuts.  In the middle of all of this, they saw in Scripture where we're to preach the gospel to the ends of the earth  . . . so they decided to send out missionaries.  But who was to go where?  Here's what they did .  . . there were people who spoke foreign languages when they were filled . . .others would recognize that language . .and because someone spoke french when they spoke in tongues, they surmized that God was calling that person to go to France . . .so off they went.

But it was a terrible outcome.  The majority of those sent died of disease within months.  The purpose of the gifts is to give us power to "be" his witnesses.  But in their infancy, they took that to mean those who "do" will have power . . . The baptism of spirit is to equip you all right . . but not to be a missionary to a foreign land, but to "be" his light where he lit you.  Some are sent, don't get me wrong.  I'm just saying, they didn't let themselves mature into what was happening enough to discern between sound and noise.  And they listened to the noise of reason rather than the sound of the Spirit's voice.

The other piece to this is what I experienced first hand with the Brownsville Revival that took place in Florida a while back . . .it's glory days were back in 98 . .the late 90's early 00's.  It was the same denomination as our church was and our head pastor made it an order for the other 9 pastors on staff to go down and get emersed in what they had, and bring it back.  And they did.  And we experienced a bit of the fresh wind ourselves . .but then we started to see subtle changes here and there . . .our leadership decided what was good for Florida, is good for Iowa . . .so we organized our own worship team . . .just like they did .. . same number of people . . .we had our ushers wear matching jackets, just like they did . . . we sang their songs, we held extra services, we had prayer teams at the end . . .we even recorded their services and bought their cd's . . .they even came up a couple of times to our city . . we followed them, we mirrored them . . .and when they died out . . .we died out.  I actually left before things went completely south on them, but it happened nonetheless.

It was a great thing, but it was a tragedy as well.  I look back now and see that what was good for Brownsville, may not have necessarily been good for Cedar Rapids.  God's relationship with us/me is a personal one.  Each city and church has a different personality, different needs in the community, different populations . .on and on . . .and for us to try to copycat what God is doing somewhere else, isn't really getting into the fulness of what God has for "us/me". 

It's just like now, my relationship with Christ is not a corporate one, but a personal one.  So . . .when I try to take a letter that was literally intended for a different city, a different people, a different culture in a different time . . and literally try to conform to it today . .is it any wonder that so many see so many different ways to apply it?

Is there a problem now eating food that has been offered up to idols?  when was the last time you saw someone stoned to death? . .For anything?  What city now a days, literally worships Isis?  Or has Asherah poles? (sp?)  The Word of God is a LIVING, BREATHING form of life . . .to take it literal only binds what is meant to be free.

What is written, was intended for infants.  It's the elementary level of boundless life and light.  To get into catfights over word definitions is to live life at the door without ever passing through.  The Bible is a great source of power and strength when order is in proper alignment "within" us.  If the order is out of alignment, then the word used to plant and build, becomes a weapon of war and a club of destruction.  What is the order?  In it's virgin state, it was Spirit then soul, then body. 

[Molly]

The title "antichrist" does not mean "against Christ." Rather, the Greek word is composed of "anti" and "christos" and literally means "instead"-"anointed."  He is not an opponent of Christ but rather a "false christ."

wohooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

yes sirry......those who continued to SIT in Moses SEAT, even when their was a New testator  in their midst.

men stealers dude..thieves....Liars..adulterers...murderes .who will have their PART in the LAKE.... :icon_flower:

First of all, Moses was a servant in the house, not the creator of the house and not the Son.

Some might even call him an angel--meant to minister to those who would receive salvation.

Secondly, they were sitting in Moses seat but they were not even good servants, which is why Jesus said--do as they say, not as they do.

[Taffy]

The title "antichrist" does not mean "against Christ." Rather, the Greek word is composed of "anti" and "christos" and literally means "instead"-"anointed."  He is not an opponent of Christ but rather a "false christ."

wohooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

yes sirry......those who continued to SIT in Moses SEAT, even when their was a New testator  in their midst.

men stealers dude..thieves....Liars..adulterers...murderes .who will have their PART in the LAKE.... :icon_flower:

First of all, Moses was a servant in the house, not the creator of the house and not the Son.

Some might even call him an angel--meant to minister to those who would receive salvation.

Secondly, they were sitting in Moses seat but they were not even good servants, which is why Jesus said--so as they say, not as they do.

AND? :icon_flower:

[Molly]

The title "antichrist" does not mean "against Christ." Rather, the Greek word is composed of "anti" and "christos" and literally means "instead"-"anointed."  He is not an opponent of Christ but rather a "false christ."

wohooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

yes sirry......those who continued to SIT in Moses SEAT, even when their was a New testator  in their midst.

men stealers dude..thieves....Liars..adulterers...murderes .who will have their PART in the LAKE.... :icon_flower:

First of all, Moses was a servant in the house, not the creator of the house and not the Son.

Some might even call him an angel--meant to minister to those who would receive salvation.

Secondly, they were sitting in Moses seat but they were not even good servants, which is why Jesus said--do as they say, not as they do.

AND? :icon_flower:

and, given all that, they were still setting themselves up to take the place of Christ.  --false Christ--

[Taffy]

The title "antichrist" does not mean "against Christ." Rather, the Greek word is composed of "anti" and "christos" and literally means "instead"-"anointed."  He is not an opponent of Christ but rather a "false christ."

wohooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

yes sirry......those who continued to SIT in Moses SEAT, even when their was a New testator  in their midst.

men stealers dude..thieves....Liars..adulterers...murderes .who will have their PART in the LAKE.... :icon_flower:

First of all, Moses was a servant in the house, not the creator of the house and not the Son.

Some might even call him an angel--meant to minister to those who would receive salvation.

Secondly, they were sitting in Moses seat but they were not even good servants, which is why Jesus said--so as they say, not as they do.

AND? :icon_flower:

and, given all that, they were still setting themselves up to take the place of Christ.  --false Christ--

:thumbsup:

[Tony N]

antichrists are false Christs, i.e. false messiahs.

[Nathan]

antichrists are false Christs, i.e. false messiahs.

But Tony . . . the point is . . .there is yet another dimension to take it to and that is coming to the realization that my carnal mind . . .my ego is that which projects this false image of Christ IN ME.  Against God . . .or false Christ . .either way, that's irrelevant because the point is that it's the carnal nature within me that's the abomination of desolation . . . I am a temple of the holy spirit . . .and if I'm walking according to my mind and not my spirit . .then it is MY MIND that is sitting on the throne in this temple declaring itself as God. 

[Taffy]

antichrists are false Christs, i.e. false messiahs.

Now which one of em is going to sit in the temple T..seems to me the Context of scripture speaks of the Old( Judaism) and the New, Those In Christ....both bearing Testimony of HIM, one the Shadow( as in the law) and the Realty, that is the TRUTH.

many ANTI-christs will come in my name....weird how he always contended those scribes, pharisees and saducees...and not muslims, hindus etc...

Im just hanging a Guess out there..that these anti Christs were these who sat IN HIS rightful seat..PROCLAIMING themselves God....

But again if we look to the Inner man we se it relates Singular as well as cooperate...., as noted earlier in this thread

:icon_flower:..Tis another Dimension bro   :icon_flower:  both are true

Cant have DARKNESS wheres theres LIGHT....its IMPOSSIBLE...Light iluminates such darkness, Just as HE WHO IS THE LIGHTiluminated the Darkness of those who desired HIS seat.....

:icon_flower:

[Tony N]

Hi Taffy!

I don't think those who opposed Christ claimed to be God. They tried to stone Christ for, according to them, claiming to be God. If they claimed to be God they would be stoned, and I don't mean by that wacky tobaccy either.

Again, antichrist is not someone who is against Christ but one who comes INSTEAD OF CHRIST. Big difference bro.

P.S. you enjoying the snow over there?

[claypot]

We're almost there Brothers and Sisters. Our real home is just around the corner. Think about it. Everyone here on this thread and all our kids will be gone from this phase of existence in a measly 100 years. OK, maybe some kids will live to be over 100 but you get the drift.

What are we going to talk about there do you think? God is a Master at giving us stuff to talk about isn't He. People have been discussing Scripture since the first i was dotted and the first t was crossed. Sometimes I think God and the angels are laughing their heads off at us. Not so much at our searching of heavenly things out but in our having such a hard time with each other doing it. It's good to see us all get along most of the time though.

Look at all the forums out there and all the words. We are an incredibly amazing people. We are very rigid and flexible and funny and serious and frutrated and docile and single minded and multi faceted minded. We are certainly a hodge podge of every emotion and human ability. Some are gullible some won't believe even if the proof is right in front of them. What is proof anyway? What is true for one of us is total falsehood for another.

Every word read is sifted through an almost infinite array of experience of the person reading it. God knew this would be the case yet He lets it be. People do find golden nuggets out of all the mayhem so it all seems worth it but perspective is my game right now.

100 years tops for 99% of us. 50 years for probably most of us. This is a most sobering truth yet it's one I cling to to keep me sane. I fear death yet I look so forward to it. Like at the top of the first big dip on a roller coaster, thrilling yet scary.

This thread is good and I enjoy it and expect to enjoy it more but it seems it is sowing as much frustration as it is rewards which is a good similarity to life itself. We are people. Some of us will change, some of us need to stay as much the same as we can. No matter, no one can stop the change that comes from the Father which is the only change that matters.

I am just thinking out loud, now back to trying to figure out who or what the anti christ is and for that matter who or what the Christ of God is!

You are all great people, keep up the good work as if you need me to encourage you!

cp