Natural and Spiritual

[Cardinal]

Adam wasn't deceived but if he were a good provider, Eve wouldn't have had to be out on the marketplace negotiating for apples with shady characters.

:cloud9: Molly, I had my LOL for the day on that one.......hilarious!  :thumbsup:

And it does say He called THEIR name Adam.......

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: LOL, posted without reading, we were thinking alike on that one.....

[Taffy]

Adam wasn't deceived but if he were a good provider, Eve wouldn't have had to be out on the marketplace negotiating for apples with shady characters.

Molly A WARNING :icon_flower: check that Blue Badge..

All this laughing your causing Is hurtin Me wound Girl....will quit Please :laughing7: :laughing7: :laughing7:

:icon_flower:

[Molly]

Adam wasn't deceived but if he were a good provider, Eve wouldn't have had to be out on the marketplace negotiating for apples with shady characters.

I thought food shopping was the womans job?  :grin: Great I hate doing it so I'll tell my husband I just learned it was HIS today  :grin:

Yeah, tell your husband you are happy to shop but -it-could-be-.....dangerous. :laughing7:

It's like that poor Bernie Madoff.  His wife was spending 50,000 a month.  What's a guy to do?

That's a lot of apples.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I have long believed if we could completely and fully understand Gen. chapters 1-3, it would unlock the whole thing.

[Molly]

:cloud9: I have long believed if we could completely and fully understand Gen. chapters 1-3, it would unlock the whole thing.

Absolutely.  The whole Bible is in the first three chapters.

And, it gives Eve something to nag Adam about for the next 6000 years---Remember when we were in the garden, and everything was PERFECT?   That was before-you- messed-it-up!

[Tony N]

Getting back to the original thrust which started this new thread . . .

If it is O.K. to take something Jesus said was the literal meaning of the figurative use of words, is it O.K. for me to take what God has said as to Him being the Saviour of all mankind and that He will save all mankind and make of it whatever I want to? Can I not also "spiritualize" 1 Timothy 2:4-6 and 4:10?

It is a fair question.  :icon_flower:

Hey T....Nobodys Saying throw out the literal..but Heck Bud, the majority would THINK you somewhat Spirtualise this Because THE MANY dont BELIEVE THE WORD """""""""""""""" ALL"""""""""""" :laughing7:

Just browse a little further down the page and we Find this....

.where do we go to find what this means bro

1Ti 2:15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

The context of her being saved is that she will be saved from the shame that she is part of the female species of which Eve is a member of, which got it into a lot of the mess we have today.

We know that absolutely she will be saved due to what Christ accomplished. So "saved" in 1 Tim.2:15 is used in a secondary sense. It is not a "spiritual" sense that "saved" is used.

This is a TEST.  This is only a TEST.


22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

:happy3:

but, but ,but Molly, it's not what you think. We have to allegorize that verse until it doesn't mean what it originally meant. That way we don't have to believe it.

Allegories, Figures, similitudes, parables, spiritual understanding etc are so evil Tony :grin:

Gal 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

Is this all you do is lie in wait to jump on folks?  :grin:

No, not really. I don't lie in wait to jump on folks.  But I started this thread and if I remember it was you who started with the attack on me with a tongue-in-cheek statement which I bolded below:

Quote from: Taffy on Today at 07:43:25 AM
Quote
Yesterdays food? huh?   Then I should promise not to touch upon anything we ate together before? 

Oops, disregard my latest one then

No ya NUT  ......,Yesterdays Food v TO DAYS FOOD ,....OLD Wine in NEW wine Skins


Sorry I was taking you LITERALLY misunderstanding always happen that way

So, do you really like to lie in wait to jump on folks like me who like to take what Jesus said at face value?
When Jesus and Paul explain what their allegory was, it is not up to us to change their explanation into a different explanation which I see going on here.

[rosered]

 
 I just noticed this ?   I have always wondered why Job spoke of Adams trangression like this ? hiden in his bosom? , is that not where Eve come out of his rib , side  , is the bosom the heart?
 
not saying  anything against eve here , but wondering the way it is worded  like job saying that he kept silence and come not out the door?

 that Adam did not confess his sin before God but tried to justify his self and put the blame on Eve?  the woman that GOD GAVE HIM!
indirectly blaming God for the  whole problem?

 Golly I wonder about this one now !!! :mblush:
  HI JACKED thread  alert!! :hijacked:
And my heart hath been secretly enticed, or my mouth hath kissed my hand:


Job 31:28 This also [were] an iniquity [to be punished by] the judge: for I should have denied the God [that is] above.


Job 31:29 If I rejoiced at the destruction of him that hated me, or lifted up myself when evil found him:


Job 31:30 Neither have I suffered my mouth to sin by wishing a curse to his soul.


Job 31:31 If the men of my tabernacle said not, Oh that we had of his flesh! we cannot be satisfied.
catch that verse ?  hummmm...


Job 31:32 The stranger did not lodge in the street: [but] I opened my doors to the traveller.


Job 31:33 If I covered my transgressions as Adam, by hiding mine iniquity in my bosom:


Job 31:34 Did I fear a great multitude, or did the contempt of families terrify me, that I kept silence, [and] went not out of the door?
 these things keep me searching  into them

[Taffy]

Sorry I was taking you LITERALLY misunderstanding always happen that way

Sorry Tony , This is a Statement of Fact,....Fire Misunderstood my figure of Speech By taking My comment Literally In the sense of Me Not wishing to discuss what we Once Shared Yesterday.

And another fact is,,This commonly Happens....
So friend If this Hat also Fits your hEad then Wear It....If Not disregard it. as you do with The Multitudes of Scriptures and explainations shown your way.....

Be blessed Bro...

[Taffy]

Tony This is a Copy I sent MY TIME, which is at LEAST 5 hrs ahead your time to Kim this Morning.


Re: (No subject)
« Sent to: Fireinfolding on: Today at 11:46:31 AM » Quote Reply Remove   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
aye ya Nutter

Ive posted this on the thread but if it goes like yesterdar ya may miss it
so


Quote
Yesterdays food? huh?   Then I should promise not to touch upon anything we ate together before? 

Oops, disregard my latest one then

No ya NUT  ......,Yesterdays Food v TO DAYS FOOD ,....OLD Wine in NEW wine Skins


xoxoxoxoxoxoxooxoxooxoxoox

[rosered]

 
   Tony , I am sorry I am using/ on your  thread  and as far as seeing what Jesus said at face value
 you can do some of that , but for many of Christ  words you cannot take it  that literal  
I  will use this example
 to stay on track here with your quest  ok ? Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.  

 now consider this  Tony , I could  go cut down a tree and drag it  all over the place  looking for Jesus  to follow Him , but where is the literal Jesus at ?     So I could actually and literally follow Him ?

 see   what I mean , interpertation is Key to Spiritual understanding what the WORD/SPIRIT is saying to us all

If it were that easy  I would do it!  cut down a tree and drag it all over  town and look for Jesus to follow , its not  that simple bro? see what I am trying to say in so many words?
 peace , no one   sees Jesus after the flesh anylonger , we are to not even  see one another that way either  ,  because we will see the  wrong way


  for eal so many would admire my trying or even think i be a nut case ,  but what would God do for me if I  went around looking for Jesus to follow  like that ?

[Cardinal]

Rosered said, "I just noticed this ?   I have always wondered why Job spoke of Adams trangression like this ? hiden in his bosom? , is that not where Eve come out of his rib , side, is the bosom the heart?
 
 Job 31:33 If I covered my transgressions as Adam, by hiding mine iniquity in my bosom: "

This might help.....He tied in taking Eve, the stony heart of Adam, out, with Deut. 7 where He tells the Israelites that He took them OUT into the wilderness so they could see what was in their hearts. He took her out so he could see (face to face) what was in his heart = iniquity that was hid in his bosom = Eve, the stony heart.

I can't "prove" it yet, but I think as a creative being made in the image of the Creator, Adam produced a thought of iniquity in his heart, and God brought it out and gave it form for him to see what was in his heart. It is the same principle as faith being the evidence of things not seen, or put another way, what we have believed for, is what is manifested into what we can touch and see. Blessings....

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I have no idea how that last post of mine came out red, but I can't un-red it, so sorry about the eye strain, LOL....

[Taffy]

:cloud9: I have no idea how that last post of mine came out red, but I can't un-red it, so sorry about the eye strain, LOL....

ya Color Blind Girl..Tis Bolded Black :laughing7:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: ???!!! I swear to you, it was red when it went up!  :mshock:

[rosered]

 

 Hi Cardinal ,  that is a good point sis to think about , if I am reading this  right ?, thanks for sharing it , its always makes me think when I get into Job !  Eve is where conception   begins ,  I can see how a stony heart   would not bear fruit to God , but   Abel and Seth seem to be from the seeds that God did bless ?
 God even showed mercy to Cain  in my opinion lol :thumbsup:

This might help.....He tied in taking Eve, the stony heart of Adam, out, with Deut. 7 where He tells the Israelites that He took them OUT into the wilderness so they could see what was in their hearts. He took her out so he could see (face to face) what was in his heart = iniquity that was hid in his bosom = Eve, the stony heart.

I can't "prove" it yet, but I think as a creative being made in the image of the Creator, Adam produced a thought of iniquity in his heart, and God brought it out and gave it form for him to see what was in his heart. It is the same principle as faith being the evidence of things not seen, or put another way, what we have believed for, is what is manifested into what we can touch and see. Blessings....

 Thanks I will re read this !  ps I SAW RED at first as well LOL  you are not  going crazy sister Cardinal hee hee .....

[rosered]

   Tony , I am sorry I am using/ on your  thread  and as far as seeing what Jesus said at face value
 you can do some of that , but for many of Christ  words you cannot take it  that literal  
I  will use this example
 to stay on track here with your quest  ok ? Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.  

 now consider this  Tony , I could  go cut down a tree and drag it  all over the place  looking for Jesus  to follow Him , but where is the literal Jesus at ?     So I could actuall and literally follow Him ?

 see   what I mean , interpertation is Key to Spiritual understanding what the WORD/SPIRIT is saying to us all

If it were that easy  I would do it!  cut down a tree and drag it all over  town and look for Jesus to follow , it not  that simple bro? see what I am trying to say in so many words?
 peace , no one   sees Jesus after the flesh anylonger , we are to not even  see one another that way either  ,  because we will see the  wrong way

Sorry you came in on this because I hadnt yet said I loved your previous post Rose, that was a good one!

Great point thats why we need the SPIRIT to teach us and to be  a workman in the word, I dont rightly divide a letter from my mother or a book of any human origin but we are to *rightly divide* HIS and it is the Spirit that helps us learn how . Not only so Paul even says there are those who hear only what the law saith and to them it speaks and theres hearing what the Spirit says and how it reads to us is how it reads to us. He even speaks of seeking out his words and I will pour out my Spirit upon you and make my words known to you. So hearing is not always understanding and the gosepl (Paul said can be hid) and speaks also of spritual things being as foolishness to the natural man, and I can honestly say they were foolishness to me at one time too, I wasnt born spiritually minded  :grin: I never had a corner on Gods words  :grin: I wait upon Him for understanding, Im as one being taught of Him yanno?

Hugs, I agree :HeartThrob:

you are right Kimmy , it is something God gives us and how we use it   to SEE more of Him ,  the Lord does Hide Himself   , that is when  i fret!  to be honest here and now 
love to all .. rose  :HeartThrob:

[Tony N]

   Tony , I am sorry I am using/ on your  thread  and as far as seeing what Jesus said at face value
 you can do some of that , but for many of Christ  words you cannot take it  that literal  
I  will use this example
 to stay on track here with your quest  ok ? Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.  

 now consider this  Tony , I could  go cut down a tree and drag it  all over the place  looking for Jesus  to follow Him , but where is the literal Jesus at ?     So I could actually and literally follow Him ?

 see   what I mean , interpertation is Key to Spiritual understanding what the WORD/SPIRIT is saying to us all

If it were that easy  I would do it!  cut down a tree and drag it all over  town and look for Jesus to follow , its not  that simple bro? see what I am trying to say in so many words?
 peace , no one   sees Jesus after the flesh anylonger , we are to not even  see one another that way either  ,  because we will see the  wrong way


  for eal so many would admire my trying or even think i be a nut case ,  but what would God do for me if I  went around looking for Jesus to follow  like that ?

Now that is a great post rosered. Since Jesus never explained what "cross" meant as He did most of his other sayings, I would take it to mean that it did not need explained. The disciples knew it meant dying to oneself for what the Lord wanted. If one was unable to do so then they should not be His disciples.

When Jesus spoke of the tares and wheat He had to explain it to His disciples.

When Jesus spoke of the cup and the bread He explained it to His disciples. I'm sure you'd agree that  we should not explain away the explanation.

Your post was very good and wish more would post like it.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: You wouldn't be a nut case, Rosie, you'd just be Arther Blessit.......sorry couldn't resist injecting a little true humor in....... :icon_jokercolor:

[Cardinal]

:cloud9: ???!!! I swear to you, it was red when it went up!  :mshock:

HE changed it  :grin: It was red I saw it too  :grin:

:cloud9: Gramster the hamster, you bad  :laughing7: :talkangry:

[peacemaker]

"The Spirit cannot be deceived, but the natural inclinations of the flesh can; but she, will be restored through the childbearing."

Not everything can be truly understood, until you receive the spiritual revelation from God, Himself. Otherwise, you will see it only in the natural sense of the word. Of course, if you see it that way, which many do, then so be it. Not to mention that those who do, certainly are not going to receive anything that anyone says - contrary to what they [themselves] believe.

I suppose you don't take this LITERALLY either: "Christ died for our sins" cause if you did, you might be misunderstood?

To bare one's sin, is to expose it!

Tony, you will literally die, now that's the truth. But tell me, what is it to be born again? For surely, you cannot again, enter the womb?

Have you heard the joke about the guy who wants to hear from God, and decides to flip through the Scriptures?
If not, please make every effort, not to answer this way:

He closes his eyes, and while fanning his Bible he sticks his finger in, and it lands right on the verse: "Judas hung himself."

Thinking this must be a mistake, he tries it again, and finds the words: "Go, and do likewise."

Alarmed at this, he tries one last time, and lands on the text: "What you must do, do quickly."

And, by all means take your time ...this is not to say you won't, it's because I've never agreed with orthodox views, or their way of teaching.

Peacemaker

Adam wasn't deceived but if he were a good provider, Eve wouldn't have had to be out on the marketplace negotiating for apples with shady characters.

Now, that was hilarious! Got me laughing so hard that "I almost fell from the tree!"
Not a lie, the chair is made of wood... :laughhand:

Thanks Molly!

[Taffy]

   Tony , I am sorry I am using/ on your  thread  and as far as seeing what Jesus said at face value
 you can do some of that , but for many of Christ  words you cannot take it  that literal  
I  will use this example
 to stay on track here with your quest  ok ? Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.  

 now consider this  Tony , I could  go cut down a tree and drag it  all over the place  looking for Jesus  to follow Him , but where is the literal Jesus at ?     So I could actually and literally follow Him ?

 see   what I mean , interpertation is Key to Spiritual understanding what the WORD/SPIRIT is saying to us all

If it were that easy  I would do it!  cut down a tree and drag it all over  town and look for Jesus to follow , its not  that simple bro? see what I am trying to say in so many words?
 peace , no one   sees Jesus after the flesh anylonger , we are to not even  see one another that way either  ,  because we will see the  wrong way


  for eal so many would admire my trying or even think i be a nut case ,  but what would God do for me if I  went around looking for Jesus to follow  like that ?

Now that is a great post rosered. Since Jesus never explained what "cross" meant as He did most of his other sayings, I would take it to mean that it did not need explained. The disciples knew it meant dying to oneself for what the Lord wanted. If one was unable to do so then they should not be His disciples.

Just where would I find that in the scrips  Tony.

They didnt Understand a Thing about Dying to Self , they Thought  what they were doing was EARNING salvation ?.... OR Lest why did Peter Cut off the ear of the Centurian, to Protect Him who would be KING

or maybe after talking to this Rich man, which No Doubt was another Pharisee , or then come to Understand it ..EVEN THINKING THEY GAVE UP ALL THEY HAD....AND ALL Tony is all ,and if all, Then That to would conclude dying to themseves..They hadnt a CLUE

at this stage They were Babes....

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?


Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.


Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,


Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and [thy] mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


Mat 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?


Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me.


Mat 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.


Mat 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.


Mat 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.


Mat 19:25 When his disciples heard [it], they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?


Mat 19:26 But Jesus beheld [them], and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.


Mat 19:27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?


Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel

[Taffy]

:cloud9: ???!!! I swear to you, it was red when it went up!  :mshock:

HE changed it  :grin: It was red I saw it too  :grin:

:cloud9: Gramster the hamster, you bad  :laughing7: :talkangry:

Guilty as Charged :mblush:

[rosered]

   Tony , I am sorry I am using/ on your  thread  and as far as seeing what Jesus said at face value
 you can do some of that , but for many of Christ  words you cannot take it  that literal  
I  will use this example
 to stay on track here with your quest  ok ? Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.  

 now consider this  Tony , I could  go cut down a tree and drag it  all over the place  looking for Jesus  to follow Him , but where is the literal Jesus at ?     So I could actually and literally follow Him ?

 see   what I mean , interpertation is Key to Spiritual understanding what the WORD/SPIRIT is saying to us all

If it were that easy  I would do it!  cut down a tree and drag it all over  town and look for Jesus to follow , its not  that simple bro? see what I am trying to say in so many words?
 peace , no one   sees Jesus after the flesh anylonger , we are to not even  see one another that way either  ,  because we will see the  wrong way


  for real so many would admire my trying or even think i be a nut case ,  but what would God do for me if I  went around looking for Jesus to follow  like that ?

Now that is a great post rosered. Since Jesus never explained what "cross" meant as He did most of his other sayings, I would take it to mean that it did not need explained. The disciples knew it meant dying to oneself for what the Lord wanted. If one was unable to do so then they should not be His disciples.

When Jesus spoke of the tares and wheat He had to explain it to His disciples.

When Jesus spoke of the cup and the bread He explained it to His disciples. I'm sure you'd agree that  we should not explain away the explanation.

Your post was very good and wish more would post like it.

  Yes Jesus did  go  into detail  many things to his students   :thumbsup:
 As  does Paul  and I hang on to every word  :thumbsup:

 and  yes , In some cases  i do see many trying to explain away the   simple explanation , I may be guilty of that myself  at times  :mblush:, I dont say that is the only thing  thats truth , but I try and consider many   spiritual concepts

when searching for Truth  
 when   Pilate  asked Jesus Christ   ''what is Truth''?

 Pilate  went out and found no fault in  him/ Jesus  at all!  
 the thing is ,

  Jesus told Him right before Pilate asked what is truth ?

 that Jesus come to  make the Truth known ,
  that Every one that is of the truth hears his  voice.

 I think even Pilate realized some what  whom Jesus was
  peace bro

[rosered]

Amen sis, I have to sit with things sometimes and theres a few I really sit with and wont comment on because I just dont know yet, If He cannot convince me to see it aright and I dont get that AH HA thingy He can do as He quickens something I wont budge   but we are no different from the disciples who would ask, "What MEANETH He when He said, in a little while you will see me no more and in a little while you will see me again"?   I mean honestly we all do that, and ofcourse we let two or three speak and we might always get how another person sees a thing but never does it seem do their witnesses agree and most often even we dont agree" because we all know when He makes it clear to us and even Paul speaks of God's ability to do that for us. Whats given to one might not be given to another, sometimes I think we need to be first filled with the water of the word before He can change it to wine, He changes the flavor somehow, but it was His first miracle in 6 stone vessels and that change comes by Him in His time and to me it speaks of His words becoming life and Spirit and the intimate experiencing of this and even the drawing of it out and sharing it with others too in some way.

Hugs

Kim  you are right !

   I  often think of what Jesus said about his servants  fighting for Him ,  not so much Him , but  for His cause   the Cross , it would be of no effect
  if  they were not standing in faith ,  this is whay defend what we KNOW AS TRUTH  and what we dont know , we are willing to listen and consider  it  at least 

 


  Jesus went on to say IF  that  His   kingdom/realm  would not be of this world and   really never was , when  satan  tempted him with all the kingdoms  He resisted the devil ,  and that Is  why  we may see so much chaos in the natural realm / kingdom


Jhn 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. 

  Seem the Spiritual realm is the unseen  with natural eyes   we Know Jesus was born of Holy Ghost but come into  the Flesh  realm / kingdom