Natural and Spiritual

[Taffy]

Why is the only choice a past and a future one?

Instead of saying it already happened, or it will happen--what about it IS happening?

If two systems are growing up side by side, then it started then, is still ongoing, and will come to an end at some point.

Paul told us it was starting in his time.   We know it is going on now.  And we know it will come to an end.

Doesn't that make more sense?

And, I mean this literally, not spiritually, although it expresses itself in a spiritual warfare.

gee I was Only reading Tonys Post and this thread took off again :icon_flower:

Indeed Molly ...we are NOW IN The Generation of Christ, His off spring ( the missing generation-Math 1) ...again I see the The generation of the Child , moving to that of a son.

IE generation TO generation. :icon_flower:

Hi T, would you say that during Paul's time on earth; he was also in the Generation of Christ?  

wel Indeed Z....I dont see the generation as some 20 yr span we call one today....Being BORN from**above** , a son or heir is HIS Generation , so Yeah.... :icon_flower:

so do you think there was an "us versus them" in the time of Paul?


and if so, do you still see an us versus them today??



I believe Paul definitely preached an us versus them, and it being a  fearful thing to fall away.  An upcoming destruction upon those who denied Christ. 

well again Yes Z, Flesh V Spirit, Law V Grace and Truth . ,...

Those formative early yrs differ somewhat today, But Law V Grace Truth still remains,  that for some ,they still remain behind the veil. :icon_flower:

[Nathan]

Zeek, this may not be much of a surprise to some, but I am totally in the same place in realizing I to am a dimensionalist.  The coolest thing is . . . as we mature more into this arena, the more things fit into place.  It's so much easier now to see how things apply internally rather than trying to identify with all of the laboring minds that constantly are searching for puzzle pieces that fit their theories.

I see us as eternal spirit beings living in temporary bodies in a temporary realm.  So it just doesn't make any sense to embrace the literal applications to the spiritual life being presented in Scripture when the natural realm isn't going to last long anyway.  It's not that we denounce the physical or literal relevance, it's just that Scripture means what it says when it states flesh profiteth nothing.  There's no benefit to embracing something that isn't eternal to begin with.  

the mind lives on proof . . .the spirit lives on faith . .these two arenas are always at odds with each other.  The physical can distract you from your spiritual dominion.  I also believe that there is a time coming when the natural things will "seem" to be able to line up with Scripture pertaining to people claiming "this is that" when they look at the natural events happening around them.  But God is not in them . . . we are led by the sound of his voice, not by the current events happening around us.  

I really think God is calling the church "into" the spirit realm so that even though things happening around us will bring alarm to many in the church, those who have become accustom to hearing the "sound" of His voice will not be shaken or dismayed at the events yet to come.

But yeah, I'm with you bro, the things that go inwardly are the things that bring life to others outwardly.  If they reject it, that's between them and God.  No condemnation.  But be encouraged my friend, you've tapped into something that is going to be a big part of the identity of the bride.  She's going to be much more effecient at hearing, which gives her the ability to purify her seeing.  I don't look around me and see death . . .I see the rolling thunderhead on the horizon and rain coming to the dry parched church that has been trying to sell sand as water.

[Molly]

so do you think there was an "us versus them" in the time of Paul?


and if so, do you still see an us versus them today??



I believe Paul definitely preached an us versus them, and it being a  fearful thing to fall away.  An upcoming destruction upon those who denied Christ. 

There has to be some kind of us versus them to be a war--and we are told we are in a spiritual warfare.  It is not against flesh and blood, as is most warfare carried out by those deceived, it is spirit verus spirit.

So make sense of that for me, when you look at this world.  There are spiritual forces at work doing evil in high places.

But if we are one body and one Spirit, then we are not warring with ourselves.

[claypot]

Zeek, this may not be much of a surprise to some, but I am totally in the same place in realizing I to am a dimensionalist.  The coolest thing is . . . as we mature more into this arena, the more things fit into place.  It's so much easier now to see how things apply internally rather than trying to identify with all of the laboring minds that constantly are searching for puzzle pieces that fit their theories.

I see us as eternal spirit beings living in temporary bodies in a temporary realm.  So it just doesn't make any sense to embrace the literal applications to the spiritual life being presented in Scripture when the natural realm isn't going to last long anyway.  It's not that we denounce the physical or literal relevance, it's just that Scripture means what it says when it states flesh profiteth nothing.  There's no benefit to embracing something that isn't eternal to begin with.  

the mind lives on proof . . .the spirit lives on faith . .these two arenas are always at odds with each other.  The physical can distract you from your spiritual dominion.  I also believe that there is a time coming when the natural things will "seem" to be able to line up with Scripture pertaining to people claiming "this is that" when they look at the natural events happening around them.  But God is not in them . . . we are led by the sound of his voice, not by the current events happening around us.  

I really think God is calling the church "into" the spirit realm so that even though things happening around us will bring alarm to many in the church, those who have become accustom to hearing the "sound" of His voice will not be shaken or dismayed at the events yet to come.

But yeah, I'm with you bro, the things that go inwardly are the things that bring life to others outwardly.  If they reject it, that's between them and God.  No condemnation.  But be encouraged my friend, you've tapped into something that is going to be a big part of the identity of the bride.  She's going to be much more effecient at hearing, which gives her the ability to purify her seeing.  I don't look around me and see death . . .I see the rolling thunderhead on the horizon and rain coming to the dry parched church that has been trying to sell sand as water.

Man Nathan you brought tears to my eyes and I am not an emotional person! Now quit it!

Just kidding, don't quit, go like the wind my friend.

cp

[Nathan]

Okay, Molly you mention warring . . .if you are in Ephesians 6, then how can you be also in Hebrews 4?  One is about spiritual warfare, the other is about spiritual rest.

I see it as spiritual maturity.  In my youth, I warred against powers and even flesh and blood . . .but as I mature, the time comes where the weapons of warfare are to be changed into plowshares . . . Scripture is written literally to infants . . . they were spiritual children . . .they thought as a child, they spoke as a child . .. but there comes a time when we're supposed to mature out of that childish thinking.  

To embrace the literal application, is to also embrace the baby food intended for spiritual infants.  So yeah, Paul was wrestling and warring . . .but he was birthing sons and daughters . .he was raising kids . .that's the realm they were in at the time . . .are we to say that 2000 years later we have not matured past the warring?  At what time then does the plowshares come into play?

[Cardinal]

Indeed Molly ...we are NOW IN The Generation of Christ, His off spring ( the missing generation-Math 1) ...again I see the The generation of the Child , moving to that of a son.

IE generation TO generation. :icon_flower:

:cloud9: I was about to reply the same thing, then I saw your post..... :winkgrin:  :thumbsup:

[Molly]

the mind lives on proof . . .the spirit lives on faith . .these two arenas are always at odds with each other.

"At odds with each other"--Only to the deceived mind, Nathan.  That's the beauty of it.


1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

2For by it the elders obtained a good report.

3Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

--Heb 11



Now, were Joshua and Caleb seeing reality when they gave a good report?  Of course they were!  And the proof of it was in the pudding!


20So the people shouted when the priests blew with the trumpets: and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, and the people shouted with a great shout, that the wall fell down flat, so that the people went up into the city, every man straight before him, and they took the city.

--Josh 6

[Nathan]

So when Paul tells the Romans that the mind is always at emnity against God . . .that was a lie?

[Zeek]

Why is the only choice a past and a future one?

Instead of saying it already happened, or it will happen--what about it IS happening?

If two systems are growing up side by side, then it started then, is still ongoing, and will come to an end at some point.

Paul told us it was starting in his time.   We know it is going on now.  And we know it will come to an end.

Doesn't that make more sense?

And, I mean this literally, not spiritually, although it expresses itself in a spiritual warfare.

gee I was Only reading Tonys Post and this thread took off again :icon_flower:

Indeed Molly ...we are NOW IN The Generation of Christ, His off spring ( the missing generation-Math 1) ...again I see the The generation of the Child , moving to that of a son.

IE generation TO generation. :icon_flower:

Hi T, would you say that during Paul's time on earth; he was also in the Generation of Christ?  

wel Indeed Z....I dont see the generation as some 20 yr span we call one today....Being BORN from**above** , a son or heir is HIS Generation , so Yeah.... :icon_flower:

so do you think there was an "us versus them" in the time of Paul?


and if so, do you still see an us versus them today??



I believe Paul definitely preached an us versus them, and it being a  fearful thing to fall away.  An upcoming destruction upon those who denied Christ. 

well again Yes Z, Flesh V Spirit, Law V Grace and Truth . ,...

Those formative early yrs differ somewhat today, But Law V Grace Truth still remains,  that for some ,they still remain behind the veil. :icon_flower:

Well i totally get what u are saying, i'm just baffled by the incredible love, joy and peace I see among friends who don't believe in Christ.  I'm baffled by the love I see in those who are willing to be vulnerable, to open up and be "naked", yet are not "believers".  

I'm not convinced there are those fully veiled anymore, but that there are degrees of "light shining through".  

I love you T, and appreciate your friendship and patience with me.  

Blessings to all here.  

Z

[claypot]

So when Paul tells the Romans that the mind is always at emnity against God . . .that was a lie?

The mind will always be at enmity with God UNTIL it humbly acknowledges its place in accordance with the spirit.

cp

[Nathan]

But will that "until" come while we are yet in these bodies of flesh?

[Molly]

Okay, Molly you mention warring . . .if you are in Ephesians 6, then how can you be also in Hebrews 4?  One is about spiritual warfare, the other is about spiritual rest.

Because I think our 'job' right now is to stand and let him do all the work.  Not stand aside, but to stand.


10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

--Heb 4



10Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

--Eph 6



17And the priests that bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD stood firm on dry ground in the midst of Jordan, and all the Israelites passed over on dry ground, until all the people were passed clean over Jordan.

--Josh 3

[Taffy]

Well i totally get what u are saying, i'm just baffled by the incredible love, joy and peace I see among friends who don't believe in Christ.  I'm baffled by the love I see in those who are willing to be vulnerable, to open up and be "naked", yet are not "believers".  

I'm not convinced there are those fully veiled anymore, but that there are degrees of "light shining through".  

I love you T, and appreciate your friendship and patience with me.  

Blessings to all here.  

Z

You must Know some real nice folk Bro, Im afraid I dont see that type of love in Folk I seem to meet in the world...,just might be me Bro , THE LOVE I SEEM TO SEE is conditional , ie I love you BUT you better love me... or else? along with Little forgiveness UNLESS of course theres something at the end of it.

I always appreciate you and posts bro..we go back aways for sure.... :HeartThrob:

Blessings :icon_flower:
G

[Nathan]

Okay, Molly you mention warring . . .if you are in Ephesians 6, then how can you be also in Hebrews 4?  One is about spiritual warfare, the other is about spiritual rest.

Because I think our 'job' right now is to stand and let him do all the work.  Not stand aside, but to stand.


10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

--Heb 4



10Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

--Eph 6



17And the priests that bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD stood firm on dry ground in the midst of Jordan, and all the Israelites passed over on dry ground, until all the people were passed clean over Jordan.

--Josh 3

I don't disagree with the standing . . .it's the warring I have issues with.  In Revelation, it says we are priests and kings . . are they dressed for battle then?

[Molly]

So when Paul tells the Romans that the mind is always at emnity against God . . .that was a lie?

The 'carnal mind' is at enmity with God. -- The 'mind of the flesh,' as it were.

Therefore, be not double minded.

James 1:8
A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

[Taffy]

I don't disagree with the standing . . .it's the warring I have issues with.  In Revelation, it says we are priests and kings . . are they dressed for battle then?

Those  BORN from ABOVE, then the Battle has been won , the battle remains for the Child\babe who are swayed by every WIND of Doctrine ( Primerilly law) holding to the ordinances of OLD.

:icon_flower:

[Zeek]

 But be encouraged my friend, you've tapped into something that is going to be a big part of the identity of the bride.  

thanks Nathan for the encouragment

[claypot]

But will that "until" come while we are yet in these bodies of flesh?

The 'until' comes as we are changed from natural to spiritual. I see people as in a state of flux, always.

cp

[Molly]

Well i totally get what u are saying, i'm just baffled by the incredible love, joy and peace I see among friends who don't believe in Christ.  I'm baffled by the love I see in those who are willing to be vulnerable, to open up and be "naked", yet are not "believers".  

I'm not convinced there are those fully veiled anymore, but that there are degrees of "light shining through".  

I love you T, and appreciate your friendship and patience with me.  

Blessings to all here.  

Z

I sure hope so.  That means we are here--


Joel 2:28
And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:


29And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

[Nathan]

I don't disagree with the standing . . .it's the warring I have issues with.  In Revelation, it says we are priests and kings . . are they dressed for battle then?

Those  BORN from ABOVE, then the Battle has been won , the battle remains for the Child\babe who are swayed by every WIND of Doctrine ( Primerilly law) holding to the ordinances of OLD.

:icon_flower:

BINGO!!!   :ty: :Urock: :first:

[Taffy]

Indeed Molly ...we are NOW IN The Generation of Christ, His off spring ( the missing generation-Math 1) ...again I see the The generation of the Child , moving to that of a son.

IE generation TO generation. :icon_flower:

:cloud9: I was about to reply the same thing, then I saw your post..... :winkgrin:  :thumbsup:

Hi C, :icon_flower:
This Thread is again moving at pace and I missed you..Its Good to see ya Posting , as I KNOW you too are still ailing badly with your Lungs ( so Guys, if read this along the way in this thread..Please remember Card, her ilness is still very much on going  :sigh:   )


:icon_flower:

[Molly]

I don't disagree with the standing . . .it's the warring I have issues with.  In Revelation, it says we are priests and kings . . are they dressed for battle then?

The standing is the warring.  Or would you rather turn and run in the face of the enemy?

Revelation?  Sounds like a war to me.


11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

--Rev 19

[Nathan]

Sorry to hear about that Card  . .  can't tell by your posts . .. the way you sing in them it would appear that your lungs are in perfect order to me!! :boyheart:

[Nathan]

I don't disagree with the standing . . .it's the warring I have issues with.  In Revelation, it says we are priests and kings . . are they dressed for battle then?

The standing is the warring.  Or would you rather turn and run in the face of the enemy?

Revelation?  Sounds like a war to me.


11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

--Rev 19

But the difference is, "I'm" not the one doing the warring. . .the battle belongs to the Lord.

[Molly]

Didn't I just say that a few posts back? lol :HeartThrob: