Heaven, Yes...Hell, No

[Patinak]

Laz,
It seemed like such a long dry spell.  It was good to see you back in your groove.  What a great piece you are putting together.  I can't wait till it's finished and published.  I would like to give a copy to everyone I know.  Looking forward to your findings on Luke.  I really appreciate that you don't exaggerate to make your point, makes your writing so much more credible IMO.
Keep up the 'good works',
Pat

[rosered]

The Gospel of Matthew took a lot of time, a lot of pages, and I feel worn out, but maybe that's just my work around the house...
It's quite a change from the happy days of knocking out one minor prophet per day...
I thank all for your comments!

:dsunny:

  I love your simple and matter of fact approach Laz ,

You make some excellent points  , they are sharp and  keen , something for the reader to ''think about ''  seeds planted .. :HeartThrob:

I love the fact  that   '' the mind set''   is  leaving it up to Jesus Christ to be the savior of the world  by faith in  Him .

Finding this  wonderful , and those pointing to Jesus are   spreading the ''good news of the gospel '' to all the ends of the earth .

Love is the perfect bond   that stands the test of time and place  and gathers   ''all things''  in Love,


  to be worked out  and though His perfect  desire  , till the end .

  and  gives us all new meaning to ,'Be strong and confident, all you who wait on the LORD!

  God bless your  heart  in all your  Love for the Lord  :HeartThrob:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Great  job Laz.... :thumbsup:

[sheila]

 :ty:

[Lazarus Short]

The Gospel of Mark

There is really nothing to comment on until 3:21-29, where we see Jesus' friends saying that He was "beside himself," and the scribes going further, using the name "Beelzebub."  We have not seen this name since II Kings, chapter 1, and it is the name of a god of the Philistine city of Ekron.  I don't care to comment on the name itself, except to say that the speakers of it were violating God's command to not speak the name of any pagan god.  Jesus must have known this, but He had deeper things to say.  Let's skip over the binding Satan part and see what pertains to us, sinners that we are.  Jesus says this, "All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies..."  What, ALL sins?  Yup, that's what He said – keep in mind what was said to Joseph in Matthew 1:21, "...he shall save his people from their sins." 

There is ONE exception – Jesus warns, "But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation."  This is generally known as The Unforgivable Sin, and verse 30 pins it down:  "Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit."  Those who spoke against Jesus were saying what they should have known was the Holy Spirit (Holy Ghost) was either madness or some kind of demonic power which they put a pagan god's name to.  Either saying is a horrible slap against God, but I think the latter is worse.  Let's look at what the YLT has to say, as I think it renders verses 28-30 far better than the KJV:  "Verily I say to you, that all the sins shall be forgiven to the sons of men, and evil speakings with which they might speak evil, but whoever may speak evil in regard to the Holy Spirit hath not forgiveness – to the age, but is in danger of age-during judgment..."  We see that "Ghost" is now corrected to "Spirit," "never forgiveness" is rendered as "not forgiveness," and best of all, "eternal damnation" is correctly translated as "age-during judgment."  This reconciles the whole narrative, and even this sin of sins is forgiven, just as Jesus said it would be, only after some seriously bad judgment lasting an age/eon. 

By the way, look back at what I wrote on Matthew, chapter 12:32 – the text reads, "it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."  "World" here is footnoted as "age," and the YLT has "age" in the text.  Could this be the same word translated as "eternal" in other contexts, to suit some theological bias?  Let's look it up...OK, I found an online interlinear version of the verse, and the Greek word for "world" or "age" is "aioni," a form of our familiar "aion," translated as "eternal" in so many places - translational sleight-of-hand again, except where the use of "eternal" would be ridiculous.

At 4:22 Jesus tells His hearers, "For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad."  One such thing is the present truth about Heaven and Hell.

In Chapter 5, we see again the story of the man with a legion of demons.  Note that they beg Jesus to not send them out of the country, but into local pigs.  Isn't it odd that they do not ask to be sent home to Hell?  No, just like Satan, they seem bound to the Earth.  No Hell here...

There's an interesting occurrence in Chapter 8, where Peter says, "Thou art the Christ," and shortly after that he rebukes Jesus over Him telling of His coming suffering.  Rebuking Jesus?!  No wonder Jesus told him to "Get thee behind me, Satan..."  Now, reader, I have already pointed out that Satan and the demons seem to be bound to the Earth.  Further, I can find no evidence that the demons operate under the authority of Satan, in the sense of them being Satan's demons.  Given that, it is a side issue to me, but I will mention here that "Satan" in this passage is Strong's #4567, transliterated as "Satanas," and defined as "the adversary."  Jesus, then, was calling out Peter as an adversary, but we must wonder - is Satan a trick of language, or a real person?  I honestly don't know, but given what I've seen offered in evidence, I have my doubts.  My readers can decide for themselves...

Following on from calling Peter His adversary, Jesus discourses in verses 34-38 His famous saying about gaining the whole world but losing your soul.  A more severe judgment is implied for those who will not follow Jesus, but note that Hell is not mentioned, even though many interpret it so.  I hope that my readers are people who possess the ability to see what they are looking at, for not everyone does.  Today is no different from the days of Jesus, or the days of Isaiah – just take a look at Mark 4:12.

Chapter 9 begins with a bit of a mystery, for Jesus has called together "...the people unto him with his disciples also..." (8:34), and He says some of them will live to see "...the kingdom of God come with power."  This may not mean they will survive to the present time and see the Second Coming.  Look to Luke 17:20-21, where Jesus says the Kingdom can not be observed in its arrival, for it is within (footnoted, "among") you.  I think we should look to the day of Pentecost for the arrival of the Kingdom with power, but that is just my opinion.

A second mystery soon follows, in the Transfiguration.  Jesus is seen with Moses and Elias, and how did that happen?  It is either a vision, or both men were brought up, resurrected, from the dead for the event.  This writer cannot find solid ground, and since Jesus is the firstfruit from the dead, I will go with it being a vision.  Anyway, the whole thing is off-topic, so let's move on. 

At this point in Mark we have already seen Jesus tell twice of His suffering, death, and rising again.  See 8:31 and 9:31.  I know that many say He descended into Hell during the three days between His death and His rising again, but there is no mention of that here.  Jesus was only in a tomb, under the earth, in the grave, in the pit.  As usual, Hell is interpolated, inserted by interpretation.  Let us see clearly what the Bible says and does not say, and not add what is not there.  Remember what God said in Deuteronony 4:2 and the Revelation 22:18.

Later in Chapter 9, Jesus repeats His advice about hands, feet, and eyes.  Again, it's all about Gehenna, and my comments about the equivalent passage in Matthew still stand.  The only thing I care to add is in verse 47, "...it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire."  The "hell fire" is, of course, gehenna, a place in the real world at that time.  Now, ask yourself – is the Kingdom of God a mythical place in the sky, the realm of harps and clouds with Saint Peter at the gate, a place found nowhere in the Bible, or is it the operative Kingdom Jesus spoke of, a place that was within/among the crowds He spoke to?  I have noted that Jesus never described this Kingdom in any direct way, but He did describe how it happened, how it operated.  Today, as then, it would be a real thing (not a place) in the real world, but not something anyone could put a finger on, just as Jesus said it did not come by observation.

In Chapter 10 we read of the rich man who wanted to find eternal (age-long) life, but left sadly when told he had to give his riches to the poor to enter the Kingdom.  Again, this was not a pie-in-the-sky thing, but something operating in the world then, and now.  Was he going to Hell?  No, for Jesus states that it is hard and difficult for a rich man to enter the Kingdom, but He sums up the matter by saying, "...with God all things are possible." (verse 27)

In Chapter 11 Jesus answers the Sadducees, and makes no Heaven/Hell distinction for those who are resurrected.  Further, He states that God is the God of the living, not a God of the dead.  I'm confused – don't people have to be dead to be in Hell?  On the other hand, don't people have to be alive to experience and endure conscious torment in Hell?  The fire-forever crowd has a problem here, but that's not my circus, not my monkey.

Now it's high time we took a look at that damn word, "damnation."  It is found eleven times in the Bible, all of them in the New Testament.  In 12:40, Jesus states that certain rascals will receive greater damnation.  It's a loaded word, as in "damned to Hell," and it has a load of negativity.  Formal definition: condemnation to eternal punishment in Hell.  A little research quickly finds it should read "judgment" or "condemnation."  I say, away with damnation!

That's all I have to say about the Gospel of Mark, where I could not find any proof of Hell.

[marie glen]

Amen! Another good 'chapter' in your writing...

He did "descend to the lower part of the earth" - the dust of the grave!

[And again, imo, the last book of the bible is a key to what or who the adversary is. The question being who or what is "the dragon" and of course all verses and cross references, and reading as straightforward whatever can be read as straightforward simplicity, on the topic.. And who was the "tempter of Jesus in the desert". But yes that is another topic.. Tho of course for all of us and the message we speak, the more accuracy in all things the more or better impact.]

Another veRy good chapter! :thumbsup:

[Lazarus Short]

The Gospel According to Luke

John the Baptist, in 3:9, tells his hearers, "...the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire."  We know that an ax is a tool to cut and separate, and in this case it leaves the root intact, just as in verse 17, where he speaks of the Christ winnowing, and separating the chaff, leaving the wheat intact.  The (non-root) tree and the chaff are both burned with fire, but we know by now that it is the cleansing fire of God, the same fire of Pentecost, which we will soon come to.  Is this fire unquenchable, as verse 17 says?  This is critical for understanding, and note that the fire is not described as eternal or forever – we should understand it as we understand fire, which consumes fuel (chaff, wood, hay, stubble) and is not extinguished until that fuel is consumed.  That may sound like a truism when stated, but God is not a God of confusion, and if He calls something fire, then I tend to think He does so because it follows the rules of fire.  Also, keep in mind that the trunk, branches, and leaves are part of the tree.  Roots are left, even if not mentioned, and so not all is burned.  Chaff comes off the wheat, but until the wheat is threshed, they are one.  So it is with us, as the old man is killed by the work of God's Word and Spirit, and the new man is built up.

Chapter 4 finds Jesus again tempted by the devil, and yes, I want to keep hammering this home – the devil is here bound on earth, as we see in his own statement, "...that [world kingdoms] is delivered unto me; and whomsoever I will I give it." (verse 6)  This devil, whoever he is, is operating on, and only on this earth, at least that is what we can gather from the Bible itself so far.  Any presence of this same devil in a mythical place called "Hell" is simply not to be found in the books of the Bible, up to this point.

Chapter 6 contains what are known as the Beatitudes, and like the Law given to Moses, they offer us a view into the Mind of God.  I will quote some of it, and just ask yourself – does it sound like Jesus is preaching about a God who damns to Hell? 

"...your's is the kingdom of God." (6:20) "...your reward is great in Heaven..." (6:23)  No other outcome or destination, such as Hell, is mentioned.

"But woe unto you that are rich!  For ye have received your consolation.  Woe unto you that are full!  for ye shall hunger.  Woe unto you that laugh now!  for ye shall mourn and weep." (6:24-25)  In this world, a small consolation, woe, woe, mourning and weeping, but yet, no mention of Hell.  Why would Jesus hold back from a mention of Hell if that place existed?  He was never one to mince words as far as we can tell, and what does that say about the preachers who are these days stating that Jesus said more about Hell than about anything else?  I hope to put paid to that before I reach the end of the Gospels.

"...he [God] is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil." (6:35)  What kind of God would be kind to the wicked in this world and then turn around and send them to Hell, once they were dead?  It makes no sense unless there are rules in operation about which He fails to tell us.  No, I don't think He is a trickster, an opinion expressed in the next verse:  "Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful." Yes, God is merciful, and since He famously states elsewhere that He is unchanging, not even possessing as much as a shadow of turning, we know that He is not unmerciful, at least not in an ultimate sense.  Given that, a Hell of eternal suffering and torment for some (or most) of mankind is excluded.

"For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit...A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good..." (6:43-45)  How much less would a good God produce the corrupt (bad) fruit of a place like Hell?

Chapter 6 ends with "But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great." (verse 49)  As usual, woes are implied, but Hell is not mentioned.  Jesus misses another chance to mention Hell more than any other thing – or did He state things just as they were?

Jesus meets the Gadarene demoniac again in Chapter 8.  The demons here ask Jesus not to send them into the deep/abyss, instead of just not out of the country.  Being allowed into the swine gives them an escape, so that they get to stay in the Earth.  This abyss may be the same place as the bottomless pit of the Revelation, but we are not told much about it, surely not enough to say it is Hell, unless we already believe such a place exists.  Given what we have so far, I think the abyss can be seen as just one more thing swept up under the rubric of "Hell."

Hell again, in 10:15 – the whole city of Capernaum sent to Hell?  Anyway, it's footnoted as "hades," and I think we've covered that.  Chapter 10 continues, with Jesus reminiscing that He had seen Satan fall from Heaven.  How far, we are not told, but given that we have only observed Satan operating on the Earth, we should not say he fell any farther.  In verse 21, Jesus prays, and calls His Father "Lord of heaven and earth."  This supports Genesis 1:1, and the hierarchy of the creation, with Hell excluded from the list.  Being a non-clergyman/non-theologian, I take personal comfort from what He says after:  "...thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes..."  He expands on this in 11:9 – "...Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you."  So it has been for me, as I am finding my answer to the question I had so many years ago:  Where DID our ideas of Hell come from?

We can see God's intentions clearly in 11:11 – "If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone?  or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?  Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?"  Given that, can we really believe that God in heaven will send anyone to roast in Hellfire forever?  God may discipline, correct, and even burn away our dross, but His intentions are good to an infinite degree, being as He is, an infinite God.  So, if we want to go to Heaven, will He send us to Hell?  I say no, not just because I see no reason to think Hell exists, but because God deals with us by forgiving our sins in that He sent His Son Who takes away the sins of the world, making us fit for heaven.

"I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear:  Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him." (12:5)  Hell again, but it is footnoted as "gehenna," and we have already covered that.  Many see this verse as telling us that God is to be feared because He can send us to Hell, but two verses later Jesus says "Fear not therefore:  ye are of more value than many sparrows."  Having used the vague pronouns "him" and "he," could He have been merely speaking of the rulers and magistrates who had the authority to relegate your dead body to the shame of being burned in the literal place, Gehenna?  I note that He continued only six verses later in the same discourse, "And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers..."  These are the very ones who have the authority/power to kill and send the dead body to Gehenna.  As usual, a wider context corrects the one verse "proof text" method of interpretation, and again, I think the no-Hell theory makes more sense here than the Hell theory.

In Chapter 13, Jesus twice describes the Kingdom of God, and note that He doesn't call it Heaven.  He speaks of a growing mustard plant and yeast in three loaves, things that happen on the Earth, not in a harp and cloud Heaven.  As I have pointed out before, He does not describe it directly, but in terms of how it operates.

Then Jesus tells us, "...many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able...I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.  There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth...there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last." (13:24-30)  Jesus does not mention Hell, but He speaks of some being first and some being last.  Does that imply that all go in, but some go in much later?  Jesus here speaks of the master of a house who has shut the door for the night and refuses to let anyone in after that, even denying that he know those knocking.  Remember that the morning will come, and the door will be opened, but maybe I am reading too much into this.  The final lies ahead of us.

There is, perhaps, confirmation for the door being opened again in 14:14, where Jesus mentions "the resurrection of the just."  Does it imply that there will also be a resurrection of the unjust?  Responding to a man who stated that those who eat bread in the Kingdom will be blessed, Jesus the parable of the feast, in 14:16-24.  Again, those invited (the First) did not go, but those not at first invited (the Last) got in instead.  Further, the master of the house tells his servant to compel all sorts of people to come in, and we must assume this would include the good and the bad.  Amazing – this, again, is how the Kingdom of God operates:  good and bad brought into the Kingdom, and He said it!

Now we reach the parable of Lazarus and the rich man, one of the usual pillars and proofs of Hell – but there is a lot more going on here.  First, all of Jesus' parables, as far as I can tell, are teaching about the Kingdom of God, especially how it operates.  We should not view any of it as being literally true in itself.  Consider how Jesus explains the parable of the Sower (Matthew 13:24-30) to His disciples.  In verses 37-39 He gives it all away – He Himself is the Sower, the field is the world, the good seed are the children of the Kingdom, the tares are the children of the "wicked one," the enemy is the devil, the harvest is the end of the world, and the reapers are the angels.  We could say that His parables are allegories or similes.  No one has any problem with political cartoons – elephants and asses are political parties, bears are Russia, bulldogs are the UK, etc.

Given that, how should we regard the characters of this parable/allegory/simile?  We will go step-by-step.  First off, who is the unnamed rich man?  We see him wearing purple, the color of rulers, of royalty.  He also wears linen, the fabric of the priesthood.  God Himself granted Israel to be a kingdom of priests, in Exodus 19:6.  With ten tribes long lost to exile, and most of Judah and Benjamin left behind in the East, the little kingdom around Jerusalem was "the last man standing," or the Israel of record.  It had a king, it had priests, and it was prosperous – at least, it saw itself as rich in the ways of God.  Given all this we should view the rich man as the nation of Judah.

Lazarus has a name, but we must figure him out too.  If the rich man is Judah, and Lazarus is poor, could he be a foreign nation, one not rich in the ways of God?  Confirmation comes in Luke 16:21 – he wanted to be fed with crumbs from the rich man's table.  This takes us back to Jesus' brief encounter with the Canaanite woman – she humbly accepted being called a dog, but hinted that she yet deserved some crumbs (Matthew 15:22-28).  This sad picture is completed by the dogs licking Lazarus' sores, for dogs are seldom mentioned in the Bible.  Lazarus, then, stands for any heathen nation, or for all of them.  Just as in the parable of the wedding feast, where people are brought into the feast/Kingdom without a selective process, Lazarus dies and is brought to

[Lazarus Short]

[the rest of Luke]

Abraham's bosom.

Now as I've said before, a funny thing happened on the way to the Septuagint.  Jews had more contact with Greek language and culture.  As part of that contact, after the exile, some of their ideas about Sheol began to change.  In their minds, Sheol came to be compartmentalized like the Greek Hades.  Part of it was now thought to be for the righteous, called the Bosom of Abraham.  Another part was for the wicked, and called "hell" in the KJV, but footnoted as "hades."  These parts were thought to be separated by a fiery gulf - all that would have been easily understood by Jesus' hearers.

OK, we've got the rich man and Lazarus both dead, meaning that Judah and the gentiles (nations) are both now in a new condition.  The rich man (Judah) sees that Lazarus (the Nations) are now accepted into the Kingdom of God.  Jesus spoke of this when He told His Jewish hearers, "The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof." (Matthew 21:43)  Do you see how He rejected the fig tree of Judah, just as He cursed the literal fig tree, as we read in Matthew and Mark?  I would go so far as to say that the Jewish nation had become the basket of very good and very bad figs we read about in Jeremiah.  These represent the Jews who responded to Jesus, and those who did not.

Back to our parable – Lazarus is in a good place, and no doubt the "good fig" Jews are there with him.  The early church was made up of these good fig Jews, and more and more non-Jews came in until this whole group came to be called Christians, and made a final split with Judaism about 150 AD.  This split, at the time, was not as clear-cut as it might appear from our vantage point in time, but that's another subject.  The rich man is not in such a good place.  These "bad figs" have suffered Roman oppression, the siege of Jerusalem, the destruction of the Temple, exile and dispersion.  Persecutions went on and on for many centuries, in many countries.  Truly, Judah, the rich man, is now tormented in a flame.  He calls out to Abraham for the smallest favor – a drop of water – and could that be a reference to the water Jesus told the woman at the well of?  Yes, I think it is.

Abraham admits that the rich man is his son, but reminds him that his time and status as God's favored nation has come and gone.  Truly, his place has been taken by "a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."  I won't try to parse that nation down, but for the sake of convenience, let's just say it is the "nation" of Christendom, a term seldom heard of in today's secular world.  Since the split between Judaism and Christendom, a fiery gulf has indeed come between them, with few people bridging that gap or being converted one way or the other. 

The rich man asks Abraham to send warning to his five brothers.  Here, we see another reason to see him as Judah, for the man Judah had five full-blooded brothers, as we can easily read in Genesis 29:32-35 and 30:17-20.  They are Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Jacob, and Zebulun.  Abraham insists that Moses and the prophets (which Jesus said testified of Him) should keep the brothers from the rich man's fate, but then the rich man makes the odd request that someone witness to them from the dead.  Truly, this is an odd request, for the Jews disputed the resurrection of Jesus, and did not record the resurrection of those whose graves were opened after that of Jesus.  History bears out that these resurrections would have no impact on those who rejected Jesus.  Abraham in the parable confirms this.

There it is, my view on the parable – a prophecy, not a proof text for Hell.  Jesus is using a well-understood mythological template as a way to say things without some of His audience understanding the meaning.  In our time, many still do not.  Consider a literal Hell, based on this parable involving a figurative rich man, figurative Lazarus, and figurative Abraham – it is just absurd.

In Chapter 19, Jesus relates the parable of the three servants and their talents, in verses 12 to 26.  After He states that good servants will be given more and bad servants will be relieved of what they have, Jesus moves on to more serious matters in verse 27:  "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."  Just as in the Old Testament, there is nothing said of Him also sending them on to Hell after death.

In 19:43-44, Jesus briefly describes the coming Roman siege of Jerusalem, which He must have known would involve the deaths of many, many Jews.  However, He says nothing about their fate beyond death.

In Chapter 20 is the parable of the vineyard over which the owner's son is killed.  Jesus states that the owner will then destroy the tenants, but Hell for them is not mentioned.  This is another instance of Jesus (the Owner of the vineyard) having His personal enemies killed, but remember that He has already told us that torturing people in fire is something He had never even thought of.  Yes, it's only a parable, but I'm trying to cover every possible point.  See 20:9-16.

Jesus makes an important point in 20:38 – "For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him."  This must refer to a future time when all have been resurrected to life, and live unto God.  When this is so, can anyone be dead, or still dead?  Hell is not mentioned, and I understand that to be in Hell you must be dead, and stay dead.  We really do see through a glass darkly, as Paul wrote – we tremble with uncertainty, knowing that many are dead, and hoping they are in Heaven, but fearing they are in Hell.  Jesus gives us hope in His assurance that we do all live unto God, and will be returned to life – no, make that Life!

In 22:31, Jesus makes the odd statement to Peter:  "Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat."  Just as with Job, Satan either doesn't care to, or can't, drag Peter down into Hell, mind you, if Hell even existed/exists.  Some might think so, but no, he only wanted to "sift" Peter, apparently because he was unconverted, as Jesus indicates in the next verse:  "...I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not; and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren."

Crucified, Jesus tells the thief who perceives His Lordship, "Verily I say unto thee, to day shalt thou be with me in paradise." (23:43)  I know that it is almost universally taught that Jesus and the thief were both in paradise THAT DAY, but is it so?  This is a little off topic, but as I have said before, I do have my Biblical pet peeves.  So, what do we know, given what we have learned up to this point?
 
Jesus and the thief would be together in paradise, at some point in time.
Jesus and the thief both died that day.
Being dead, the thief was in sheol, and still is, since the resurrection of the dead is still in the future.
Having taken on our sins, Jesus received the wages of sin (death) in spades – yes, He was also dead, very dead, in sheol.
Jesus was helled in the tomb, undertaken, but He was not in the Hell of Dante, Milton, or Baxter.  The wages of sin are death, just as God says, not a ticket to Hell.
Jesus was helled for three days and nights, but He was not held, for He rose from the dead, just as we know that the gift of God is eternal Life.
He told Mary on the morning of His resurrection that He had not yet risen to His Father.
The original Greek did not have commas, so the placement of the comma depends on what did or did not happen on that day.

It really looks like Jesus and His thief did not make the scene in paradise that day, so the verse should be punctuated so: "Verily I say unto thee to day, shalt thou be with me in paradise."  It still makes sense as grammar, and is much more consistent with the rest of Scripture.

At the end of Chapter 23, along comes Joseph of Arimathaea - he asks for, and gets, the body of Jesus for burial.  Just as today, by Roman law, he would need to be a family member to have his request granted by Pilate.  I have read that he was Mary's uncle, but the evidence for it borders on legend.

In 24:46, the triumphant Jesus declares that He was "to rise from the dead the third day."  That was from the dead, not from Hell.

So we leave the Gospel of Luke the Physician, seeing Jesus risen from the dead, not from Hell, for which we could find no evidence written by Luke.

[Lazarus Short]

The Gospel According to John

"All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." (John 1:3)  We commented on this way back on page 2, but it bears repeating – if the Creator did not create it, no one else did.  Given that God has not claimed anywhere in His Word to have made Hell, we should accept only what He does claim:  Heaven and Earth.  Religion teaches, and men believe that Hell exists, but is that really any different than casting spells and conjuring to make something happen?  Yes, I am serious.  Elijah and the prophets of pagan gods competed in prayer (I Kings 18), and we can see how all they did came to nothing.  Elijah had such faith that he even had his altar, wood, and sacrifice soaked with water, but God sent fire to consume it all.  This is what pleases God, not spiritual strongholds about things that do not exist.  The endless assertions of endless churchmen do not make Hell so, any more than the millions of sincere Christians, who subscribe to a creed or statement of faith.  These things lack the power to make anything real.  Believe in Hell if you must, but know - that doesn't make it so.

Darkness yet again, in 1:5 – "...the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not."  John is being poetical here, and it would not be wise to think of darkness as a thing.  John is correct, darkness does not comprehend - simply because it is where light has yet to shine.

"Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world." (1:29)  Now if the Hell theory were correct, John the Baptist might have said something very different, such as the Lamb saving us from Hell, but he failed to say so, and maybe he didn't need to.

We meet Nicodemus (note the Greek name) in Chapter 3.  Confronted with the idea of being born again, or born from above, he wonders out loud if a man can come out of the womb a second time.  Now, Jesus had a perfect opportunity here to expound on reincarnation – IF it was true.  He did not take the bait.  So what does this have to do with our thesis?  Well, it's about what Paul speaks of in II Corinthians 10:3-5.  He speaks of pulling down strongholds of belief, casting down imaginations/arguments and everything exalting itself against the knowledge of God.  He speaks of bring every thought into captivity and obedience to Christ.  Now, having looked through the Bible together as we have, if the reader is still with me, we know that the knowledge of God does not include Hell.  It does not include reincarnation either, but most Christians will let that go by, no problem, for it is not a spiritual stronghold in their minds.  Sadly, we have much difficulty (notice "cult" inside the word "difficulty") letting go of ideas we hold dear.  The mental phenomena called "cognitive dissonance" begins when we consider a change in basic beliefs, and our minds are painfully pulled in both, or several, directions at once.  Most people run for shelter then, almost always the shelter of their dear, old spiritual stronghold.  Only a few will follow the Truth wherever it leads, and we know that Nicodemus did help Joseph bury the body of Jesus, so it's no stretch to think that he came to believe what Jesus was teaching him.

Before we leave Nicodemus, look at what Jesus was teaching him in 3:12-21.  Jesus mentions Earthly and Heavenly things, but fails to mention Hellish things.  He mentions ascending up and down from Heaven, but not down and up from Hell.  In the famous John 3:16, He states that God's gift of Jesus to the world was so "...that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."  Hell is not given here as the alternative to everlasting life, but perishing, which is simple death, being left forever in the grave, in sheol.  Jesus also speaks of saving the world, versus condemnation, and He defines that condemnation as men hating the Light, and loving darkness, because their deeds were evil.  He could have offered Hell as the condemnation, but did not, and we see this over and over - just as He failed to expound on reincarnation, He misses one opportunity after another to put a foundation under Hell.  Verily, consider this lapse, if you believe that Jesus always spoke the truth.

John the Baptist, in 3:36, says, "...he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."  I'm sure this is ammunition for the fire-forever crowd, but we already know from the Old Testament prophets (as Micah 7:18) that God will not always be angry, but will eventually show mercy.

In Chapter 5, Jesus lectures His Jewish opponents:  "He that heareth...and believeth...shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death [not Hell] unto life...the dead [location not given – sheol  is assumed] shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live...all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, [grave this time, but still not Hell] and come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."  (5:24-29)  Note that "damnation" in verse 29 is footnoted as "condemnation," and "condemnation" in verse 24 is footnoted as "judgment."  A bit of research shines a light on this – it should be "judgment" in every case, but I'm guessing "judgment" was too mild a word. I'm calling this just another case of theo-illogical sleigh-of-hand, where loaded words are used for effect.  In this case, I think it's to prop up Hell, and a condemning, damnationist God Who sends sinners there.  Think about it, as I'm only catching a few here and there – I'm sure there must be many more.  I'm sure a whole book could be written on sleigh-of-hand in this translation and others, but let's keep mostly on topic, shall we?

At 6:39, Jesus responds to His would-be followers, "...this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day."  So what's included in "all"?  John the Baptist tells us in 3:35 – "The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand."  All things!  That's everyone, living and dead, the world, even the entire cosmos.  Some verses later, Jesus says, "...no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." (6:65)  So – since His Father gave Him all things, and since He will lose nothing, then it stands to reason that God will give unto every man to come unto Jesus at some point in time.  A victorious gospel indeed!

In 8:24, Jesus answers His Jewish opponents, saying, "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."  Here, Jesus misses another opportunity to threaten with Hell, but He only mentions death, which we know is the only wage of sin.  Many believe that to die in your sins is to go straight to Hell, but if Jesus has been given all, and will lose nothing of it, then the gift of eternal life must be the eventual outcome of God's judgments, however severe they are after death and resurrection.  It can be no other way, for anyone spending eternity in conscious torment is certainly lost, but Jesus stated that He would lose nothing.  I'll go with Jesus on that, and He says more in 8:34-35 – "Whosoever committeth sin is the servant [footnote: slave] of sin.  And the servant abideth not in the house for ever, but the Son abideth ever."  Jesus is referring back to the Law of the Jubilee.  At the start of the Jubilee year, a 49 + 1 year cycle, every man who had sold himself, or his family member, into slavery since the last Jubilee, went free and got to go back to his ancestral lands.  Jesus is teaching that to sin is to become a slave to sin, but also that those in bondage to sin will become free of sin at a time set by God.  Yes, the Jubilee principle, of which the freeing of slaves was a type and shadow, excludes Hell, for they cannot both exist.

A few paragraphs ago we looked at the words damnation, condemnation, and judgment, and at how judgment should have stood in place of the other two.  In 9:39, Jesus explains that judgment, but not as we might have expected:  "For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind."  Sight for the blind...and blindness for those who can see, or think they see?  He might as well have said that He was going to turn the world upside down, and maybe that was His intent.  Then he goes on, in verse 41:  "If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth."  This clarifies – those with limited faculties are excused, and those given more have fewer excuses.  Did He not say that to whom more is given, more is expected?  Take a look back at Luke 12:48, and also John 12:47 – "...I came not to judge the world, but to save the world."  If you might think that this salvation has anyting to do with Hell, no, see Matthew 1:21 again:  "...he shall save his people from their sins."  As ever, Hell does not enter into the matter.

Jesus has yet more mind-blowing things to say.  On being threatened with stoning, He asks His accusers, in 10:34, "Is it not written in your law, I SAID, YE ARE GODS?"  This refers back to Psalm 82:6 – "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High."  Now look ahead at I John 3:2 – "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."  [emphasis added]  That's hard to get your mind around, but there it is, and it is not New Age gobbledygook because Jesus said it.

Jesus tells Martha, just before He raises her brother, "I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die." (11:25-26)  Well, what about those who don't believe in Him?  Will they believe eventually, be lost, or go to Hell??  The final answer is yet to come.

Now in 12:31-32, we hear Jesus announce His victory:  "...now shall the prince of this world be cast out.  And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me."  Once again, if the devil is indeed the prince of this world, we see that this world if where he is operating, not Hell.  Also note that Jesus makes no exception to who will be drawn to Him, just all men.  Hell is just not an issue here – if you can avoid using the overlay of Hell, you will realize that the plain text simply does not have it.

A truly useful tool to gauge the sayings of Jesus comes along at 14:2 – "In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you.  I go to prepare a place for you."  [emphasis added]  Ask yourself if Jesus, anywhere in the Gospels, makes a plain, straightforward statement about the reality of Hell.  I can't find one, and if it were not so, He would have told us, right?

Another possible proof text shows up in Chapter 15 – "I am the true vine...Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away...If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." (verses 1-6)  We know that God's fire is for cleansing and purifying, so we suspect that these metaphorical branches are in the fire (not Hell) to have their dross, wood, hay, and stubble burned away.  The fire-forever crowd will say my argument is weak at this point, and they are correct, but just note that Jesus does not speak of the final destiny of the branches which God cuts off – they are neither burned to ashes, nor burned forever, nor saved in the end.  This text could be used for any camp, those who say the wicked are burned forever, those who say the wicked are burned to ashes and dead forever after, and those who see the eventual rehabilitation of the wicked.  This one text does not resolve the issue, so we must look at all relevant texts and weigh the evidence.

I can find nothing else in the Gospel of John the Apostle bearing on our Thesis, nor any evidence or proof texts for Hell.

[darryl]

The Gospel According to John

This text could be used for any camp, those who say the wicked are burned forever, those who say the wicked are burned to ashes and dead forever after, and those who see the eventual rehabilitation of the wicked.  This one text does not resolve the issue, so we must look at all relevant texts and weigh the evidence.

The text that resolves the issue for me is 2 Peter 3:9 which says  ( Strong's definitions included) , ' The Lord is not (Gk= 'ou'= not, none, nothing) slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not (Gk= 'me'= not, not at all, none at all ) willing ( Gk= 'boúlomai' ="resolutely plan",planning for, intending, ) for anyone (Gk= 'tis'= anyone at all )  to perish, but everyone (Gk ='pantas' = all, everyone)  to come to repentance'.The Greek word 'boulomai' is a very strong term according to Strongs and means, in the strongest language possible, that God is 'resolutely planning' for all to come to repentance, which results in salvation.

What God 'resolutely plans', MUST happen.

Therefore ALL will ultimately be redeemed.

The actual mechanics of it, how it will exactly come about..I do not really know, although there are 'hints' in the Bible about how this Universal Reconciliation will take place...but how can we know exactly how God will redeem all ?..I / we  are not almighty God...but HE knows how He will ultimately redeem the entire human race..I, we, just need to trust His word and the fact that He WILL do it...we need to truly believe that 'all things are possible with God'.

This text can save much time searching scripture for ever more texts supporting UR  because according to 2 Peter 3:9 it's a done deal.God has said it, we must believe it. :dsunny:

[Lazarus Short]

Yes, it's a done deal in the ultimate sense, but in the here-and-now, it is still a process.  Unlike God, we do not clearly see the end from the beginning, except as we understand what the Scriptures tell us.

[Ross]

Yes, it's a done deal in the ultimate sense, but in the here-and-now, it is still a process.  Unlike God, we do not clearly see the end from the beginning, except as we understand what the Scriptures tell us.

What kid knows everything from day 1. T'is all an on-going process. Greek uses on-going words which English diffuses.
Colossians 2;17 " These are a shadow of what was to come, but the reality is found in Christ."
Shadows give hints, but cannot completely disclose what they represent unless the light comes through.

[Lazarus Short]

Yes, it's a done deal in the ultimate sense, but in the here-and-now, it is still a process.  Unlike God, we do not clearly see the end from the beginning, except as we understand what the Scriptures tell us.

What kid knows everything from day 1. T'is all an on-going process. Greek uses on-going words which English diffuses.
Colossians 2;17 " These are a shadow of what was to come, but the reality is found in Christ."
Shadows give hints, but cannot completely disclose what they represent unless the light comes through.

I suspect that, like Greek to English, human language cannot effectively communicate what is hid in Christ - in the shadows, so to speak.  Maybe that is why Jesus so often began a parable with the phrase "The Kingdom of Heaven is like..."  The He would describe how it worked, rather than make a straightforward description, as we might find in a travelogue.

[Ross]

I suspect that, like Greek to English, human language cannot effectively communicate what is hid in Christ - in the shadows, so to speak.  Maybe that is why Jesus so often began a parable with the phrase "The Kingdom of Heaven is like..."  The He would describe how it worked, rather than make a straightforward description, as we might find in a travelogue.

Indeed. Col 2;3 " In Christ are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge."
He specifically explained the parable to the disciples.

  Paul also made a point about speaking in fleshly terms because some were still not in spirit.
1 Cor 3;2,3 " I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it, and even now you are not yet ready, for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving like men?"

Which would seem to be logical for speaking in parables and hiding things until the appointed time for every individual.

[Lazarus Short]

No wonder a  prophet has no honor in his own country - the world of flesh.

[Lazarus Short]

A Lookback at the Good News

I kept seeing, as I studied Gospel after Gospel, Jesus' statements concerning why He was there in that time and place.  I decided to collect them all, and see what they add up to.

Matthew 5:17 – "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

Matthew 9:13 – "...I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."

Matthew 10:34-35 – "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.  FOR I AM COME TO SET A MAN AT VARIANCE AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND THE DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND THE DAUGHTER IN LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER IN LAW."

Matthew 15:24 – "...I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Matthew 18:11 – "For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost."

Matthew 20:28 – "...the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many."

Mark 1:38 – "Let us go into the next towns, that I may preach there also: for therefore came I forth."

Mark 2:17 – "They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."

Luke 4:18-19 – "THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS UPON ME, BECAUSE HE HATH ANOINTED ME TO PREACH THE GOSPEL TO THE POOR; HE HATH SENT ME TO HEAL THE BROKENHEARTED, TO PREACH DELIVERANCE TO THE CAPTIVES, AND RECOVERING OF SIGHT TO THE BLIND, TO SET AT LIBERTY THEM THAT ARE BRUISED, TO PREACH THE ACCEPTABLE YEAR OF THE LORD."

Luke 4:43 – "I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent."

Luke 5:31-32 – "They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick.  I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."

Luke 9:56 – "For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them."

Luke 12:49 – "I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?"

Luke 12:51 – "Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth?  I tell you, Nay; but rather division."

Luke 19:10 – "For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost."

Luke 24:26 – "Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?"

Luke 24:46-47 – "Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem."

John 3:14-17 – "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.  For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."

John 4:34 – "My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work."

John 5:30 – "...I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."

John 5:43 – "I am come in my Father's name..."

John 6:38-40 – "For I came down form heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.  And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.  And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

John 6:48,51 – "I am that bread of life...if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."

John 7:28-29 – "...I am not come of myself...for I am from him, and he hath sent me."

John 9:39 – "For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind."

John 10:10 – "I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly."

John 12:27 – "Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour."

John 12:46 – "I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness."

John 15:22 – "If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin."

John 18:37 – "Thou sayest that I am a king.  To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth."

Jesus' stated purposes for being in the there-and-then do not seem to support, or have anything to do with, Hell.  Salvation, not damnation or even judgment, seems to be His overriding purpose.

[marie glen]

Amen!  :ty: awesome verses and study!! :cloud9: ..and I agree with your conclusions!

[Lazarus Short]

The Acts of the Apostles

Hell first shows up in Peter's speech on the day of Pentecost, as he quotes Psalm 16 in Acts 2:27 – "...THOU WILT NOT LEAVE MY SOUL IN HELL..."  Not surprisingly, "Hell" is footnoted here as "hades," - we know it as the Greek equivalent of "sheol," and have covered that previously.  Peter goes on, in verse 31, to say that what David wrote in his Psalm applied to Jesus, that He was not left in hell/hades/the grave, and His body did not "see corruption," or decay.  OK, we're good with that.

Chapter 5 presents us with the sad tale of Ananias and Sapphira, who died, not for holding back money, but for lying about it.  Further, they are carried out and buried, but nothing further is said – as ever, it is just simple death.  If they are going to Hell for one lie, then hope dims for all of us.  However, remember that they followed the same God we do, Who kills and makes alive!

We meet up with Saul of Tarsus at the end of Chapter 7, and in Chapter 9 he is converted.  He had been putting the followers of Jesus into prison, and we don't know today how many of them died there, or were put to death.  Man's conception of justice might be to relegate Saul to Hell, but God had, and has, a higher kind of justice.  God turned Saul from an enemy to a disciple, and Hell was not mentioned or involved.  Truly, His ways are higher than our ways!

Reading along in Chapter 13, we come to something looking like predestination, "...and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." (verse 48)  A person might easily be led to think some here got eternal life and some did not, and thus missed out and received an eternity in Hell.  An eternity in conscious torment is sort of a life, right?  But you're supposed to be dead in Hell – it does get confusing, doesn't it?  Anyway, I looked the verse up in an interlinear version, and the Greek word translated as "eternal" is our familiar "aionion," so what is really being said here is that those who believed will get life in the age to come, having enjoyed the first resurrection, and those not believing, missing out.  They will be resurrected later, even if they get tossed into the Lake of Fire, but I'm getting ahead of myself...again.

In Chapter 14 we once again read the formula "...the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein." (verse 15)  With the anointing of the Holy Spirit, Hell is not added by the Apostles to heaven and earth, just the sea and what it contains.  I know of no one who has postulated that Hell is in the sea – it would make no sense.

The following chapters have little of interest to our thesis, mostly being, like the books of the Maccabees, a record of going here and doing this-or-that.  Proof of Hell was very lacking in Acts, for all the doings and locations.

[marie glen]

 :2thumbs:

Amazing, ain't it!? That in all that activity and preaching no warning to folks that they were in danger of horrible suffering forever and ever.. and didn't pass it on as a major doctrine either! ..they really dropped the ball on all that i guess - Not!! :smile:

[Lazarus Short]

He, He!  Compared to most doctrines of the churches, it's not very easy to find a book about Hell.  There is just too little to go on, and it would let the cat outta the bag.  Do you recall seeing geography or anatomy books having transparent plastic pages with colorful overlays?  You'd look at the page and then flip down the transparency to cover part of the map or image.  The doctrine of Hell is just like that, done up in the same sort of lurid colors.  [I like the word "lurid."]  In the case of Hell, the overlay is mental and emotional, a spiritual stronghold to be sure. :flamebreath: :declare:

[marie glen]

....In the case of Hell, the overlay is mental and emotional, a spiritual stronghold to be sure. :flamebreath: :declare:

what a great analogy! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

He, He!  Compared to most doctrines of the churches, it's not very easy to find a book about Hell.  There is just too little to go on, and it would let the cat outta the bag. 

   Amen!  :prankster:

[eaglesway]

 :thumbsup:

He, He!  Compared to most doctrines of the churches, it's not very easy to find a book about Hell.  There is just too little to go on, and it would let the cat outta the bag.  Do you recall seeing geography or anatomy books having transparent plastic pages with colorful overlays?  You'd look at the page and then flip down the transparency to cover part of the map or image.  The doctrine of Hell is just like that, done up in the same sort of lurid colors.  [I like the word "lurid."]  In the case of Hell, the overlay is mental and emotional, a spiritual stronghold to be sure. :flamebreath: :declare:

A friend of mine used to speak about wearing red glasses, everything looks red. Hellism/ET/ED are like that there is a veil that colors their view of God and when they read the scriptures, similarly to Jews under the law- the veil remains, their view of God distorted and miscolored.

Once that veil is removed, all the colors return, and we see the Father and the Son as they are.

But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

[marie glen]

.."we shall be like him for we shall see (understand) him as he is.." :smile:

[Lazarus Short]

.."we shall be like him for we shall see (understand) him as he is.." :smile:

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

"...we shall be like Him..." just separates my head from my shoulders.  It is so much more mind-blowing than "the just shall live by faith" which sparked the protestant reformation.

[Lazarus Short]

The Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Romans

The word "Hell" is not in this epistle, so we have that out of the way from the first.

In Chapter 6, we come up against this, verse 7 – "For he that is dead is freed from sin."  Paul follows this up at the end of the chapter with "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (verse 23)  Now if you remember what I said earlier about the Jubilee, you know that if we think of sin as our master, and Paul does mention us becoming slaves to sin, then at the start of the Jubilee, we go free, back to our inheritance.  Paul is telling us the same, that death is our Jubilee, setting us totally free from our master, sin.  It begins to look like a natural progression:  bondage to sin, then death, release from sin, God's gift, and eternal life.  Hell is not mentioned here at all!  Ah!  Do you see what this means? It means, if we are to believe Paul, that the common opinion among Christians that upon death, we are sent to Heaven or Hell, may just be totally false.  No, Paul is telling us that though we sin now and die later, God intervenes with the GIFT of freedom from sin, and with that freedom, eternal (age-long) life as well.  Our part is simply to believe it, accept it, and have faith in His promise.

By the end of Chapter 8, in verses 38 and 38, Paul is ready to declare, "For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord."  He does not even mention Hell as a factor.

Paul says rhetorically in 10:6-7, "...WHO SHALL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:) Or,  WHO SHALL DESCEND INTO THE DEEP? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)"  "Deep" here is footnoted as "abyss," a word seen only a few times in the New Testament.  It is the same abyss the demons feared Jesus would send them to, and begged to be sent into pigs instead.  Digging deeper (so to speak), I find that Paul paraphrased his source, Deuteronomy 30:12-14 very loosely.  Given what we can read about the abyss, especially in the Revelation, I have difficulty thinking of Jesus being there, and it is certainly not directly comparable to Hell.  Anyway, in verse 9, Paul adds that God raised Jesus from the dead, with the abyss  not mentioned.

At 10:20, Paul quotes Isaiah, but I'll just go back and quote the prophet directly (65:1-2):  "I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.  I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good..."  The latter group would be 12-tribed Israel, and the former would be the pagan nations of the world.  Yet Paul says in 11:1-2 – "I say then, Hath God cast away his people?  God forbid...God hath not cast away his people..."  We see here that there is hope for both groups in the Plan of God.

Continuing the thought, Paul goes on in Chapter 11, verses 12, 15, 23, 26, 29,  and 32:  "Now if the fall of them [Israel] be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles [nations]; how much more their fullness?...For if the casting away of them [Israel] be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them [Israel] be, but life from the dead?...And they [Israel] also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again...And so all Israel shall be saved...For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance [footnoted "irrevocable"]...For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all."  The Israel Paul spoke of was not just the Kingdom of Judah, a Roman province at that time, for the Jews of Paul's day were just a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of Israel.  Most of those who descend from Israel, from ALL those tribes, have no knowledge of their descent.  In Paul's day, as in ours, Israel represents a LOT of people, but their identity is outside our scope.  Paul's conclusion is in verse 16:  "For if the firstfruit [Jesus] be holy, the lump [us] is also holy: and if the root [Jesus] be holy, so are the branches [us]."  Jesus said Himself, as recorded in John 15:5 – "I am the vine, ye are the branches..."  Vines have roots, do they not?  So, truly, as Paul says in verse 32, God will surely have mercy on us ALL!

There is nothing more of interest to our thesis in this epistle, but many riches nevertheless.  "The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light." (Romans 13:12)