Heaven, Yes...Hell, No

[sheila]

 :laugh:   no disrespect meant to you,Laz........but just too,too funny.   :HeartThrob:

[Lazarus Short]

None taken, Micah/Sheila!  I try to put in a bit of humor from time to time, change the pace, and the tone.  I also put things in there (Hopefully!) to clue the reader in that I am intelligent, and just might know what I'm talking about... :winkgrin:

[Lazarus Short]

Obadiah
There is little to mention in this book, except fire in verse 18, where Jacob = fire, Joseph = flame and Esau = stubble.  As usual, this works out in the real world.

Hell is not to be found, then, in the book of Obadiah.

[Lazarus Short]

Jonah
The word "hell" shows up in 2:2, when Jonah prays to God from deliverance from the "belly of hell," uh, fish.  The word, of course, is footnoted "Sheol."  Jesus referred back to Jonah in the sense of His coming three-day sojourn in a tomb, as Jonah was in the fish for the same length of time, but neither was Hell if we are talking about eternal conscious torment in fire.

Jonah must have expected God to smite Nineveh after forty days, and was unhappy to see it spared, given all he had been through.  Is this not exactly how people today feel about their personal enemies?  That after all they have had to suffer, their enemies should just go to Hell.  They forget that they are surely the enemy of some other person, who just might want them to go to Hell as well.  Jesus taught us to forgive our enemies because we all come before the same judge, and must pass the same test before the White Throne.  We must put up with them forever as well, if there is no Hell – a sobering thought.

After Jonah moved east of the city, a direction away from God, He gave Jonah a gourd, and showed him how things are alive one day, and dead the next, just as the grass Jesus mentioned that grows today and is tomorrow thrown into the fire.  Jonah was upset by the death of his worthless gourd, but God showed him that the people of Nineveh were of much more worth.  Now if God spared the pagan Ninevites, we should not be the Jonahs of the present age and relegate any person or group to Hell.

We can find the salvation of all in Jonah, but not Hell.   

     

[Lazarus Short]

Micah
Lots of folks look to Chapter 4 as telling of a future time when swords are made into plowshares, spears to pruninghooks, and the nations not learning war anymore.  Two verses later, we see what is less quoted:  "For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the Lord our God for ever and ever."  (verse 5)  Note the use of "all," and the lack of conditions and exceptions to those walking with God.  Micah goes on to say that God will gather the lame, the outcast, and those He has afflicted.

In Chapter 6, God pleads, "O my people, what have I done unto thee?  and wherein have I wearied thee?  testify against me...what doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?" (3-8)  As we wind up the OT and the minor prophets, I think it is important once again to remind the reader that nowhere does God promise or threaten anyone, for any reason, with eternal torment in fire.  He does give them dire warnings of oppression, destruction, and captivity, but those are things worked out in the real world, and are the consequences of His people's own actions and choices.  He talks like an aggrieved parent, hoping for better things from His children, and promising them a better future, not a hopeless future in Hell.

Micah gives us another clue about our personal enemies:  "Then she that is mine enemy...shame shall cover her which said unto me, Where is the Lord thy God?  mine eyes shall behold her:  now shall she be trodden down as the mire of the streets." (7:10) She is not sent to Hell, just "trodden down." 

Micah concludes:  "Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage?  he retaineth  not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.  He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities ; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea."  Ask yourself, reader, if this sounds like a God who sends sinners to Hell, or a God who corrects and redeems them?

Hell is surely not found in the book of Micah

[Lazarus Short]

Nahum
In case anyone is ready to say that "...the Lord will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies." (1:2) means that God will send them to Hellfire, let me say again that nowhere has He yet said such a thing, and as I have pointed out many times, all these cursings and outpourings of wrath exhibit themselves in the real world.  It is vital to read and understand what God is saying, not what you may think He is saying because you are reading through a theological filter.  Perhaps you have heard or read the dictum that "Text out of context is pretext."  Well, this is not different – we must compare any text with its context, and with God's message as a whole. If we think of Hell in terms of a theory, it is not being supported so far by the data (the Text), as I pointed out at the end of every OT book so far.  To gather the whole counsel of God, we must keep up our textual gleaning.

In 3:18 we see a mention of Assyria's nobles dwelling [resting] in the dust, which I read as the dust of death.  This would be Sheol or the grave again, the realm of the dead, a place in the real world.  Any supernatural reality is unproven, except the Spirit of Life having returned to God who gave it.

Hell is not to be found in the book of Nahum.



   

[Lazarus Short]

Habakkuk
Many believe God's judgment to be the separation of the righteous from the wicked – one to Heaven and one to Hell.  Yet, here is something for them to think on:  "...we shall not die.  O Lord, thou hast ordained them for judgment; and, O mighty God, thou hast established them for correction." (1:12)  The parallels between judgment and correction here suggest  a very different outworking of God's dealings with men.

In passing, we come across the verse which sparked a revolution in the mind of Martin Luther, and spread to much of the world:  "...but the just shall live by his faith." (2:4)  We will yet see more amazing texts.

In the next verse is the last instance of "hell" in the OT, and as ever, it is footnoted as "Sheol."  It speaks of a man who "enlargeth his desire as hell," simply a way of referring to the way death or the grave devours all living in apparently unending numbers, much as Abner asked in II Samuel 2:26, "Shall the sword devour for ever?"  God tells us that it will not.

Fire in 2:13:  "...the people shall labor in the very fire..." but this does not refer to people in the fires of Hell, but to them working to acquire things which are simply ephemeral – things which fire may take, our personal wood, hay, and stubble.  The next verse is a poetic vision of our future:  "For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea."

Hell is not to be found in the book of Habakkuk.







   

[micah7:9]

Oh well....another dry run :dsunny:

[Lazarus Short]

Oh well....another dry run :dsunny:

Sometimes, failure is success!  :declare:

[Lazarus Short]

Zephaniah
Ho-hum, the book begins with the usual threats of destruction against Judah, Phoenicia, Assyria, Moab, Ammon, etc.  In 3:8 we read of what looks like the end of the world:  "...all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy."  Those who think this is a fire of destruction cannot explain what comes next:  "For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent." (verse 9)  God goes on to say, "In that day shalt thou not be ashamed for all thy doings wherein thou hast transgressed against me...they shall trust in the name of the Lord....The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity...and none shall make them afraid...thou shalt not see evil any more." (verses 11-15)  No, this cannot be a fire of destruction, but a fire of refining and cleansing.

Hell cannot be found in the book of Zephaniah.

[Lazarus Short]

Haggai
This whole book, short as it is, is concerned with the beginning of the rebuilding of the Temple, after some of Judah had returned to Jerusalem from Babylon.  It has nothing relevant to our thesis, therefore...

...Hell is not to be found in the book of Haggai.

[Lazarus Short]

Zechariah
In Chapter 3, Satan (footnoted "The Adversary" in my KJV) makes one of his few appearances – he's a minor figure really.  In 3:2 Jerusalem is described as a "brand plucked out of the fire," and that is not a Hell reference, just a figure of speech.  If you take a burning brand out of the fire, you can quench it and save it from being totally burned up.  Given what God and His prophets have said about Jerusalem and its fate, we know that 3:2 refers to the city being ruined by the Babylonians and rebuilt under the authority of the Persians – things all happening in the real world.  Anyway, it is not easy to think of a whole city in Hell.

There is fire again in 11:1-2, but the context is in the real world – Lebanon and Bashan, not Hell.
Chapter 12, verse 1 gives us yet another look at how God made the universe:  "...the Lord, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him."  As elsewhere, there is no mention of Him having made Hell.  There is fire in verse 6, but the context is the real world – Judah and Jerusalem.

There are lots of hints dropped in this book about Jesus of Nazareth, such as 13:6 – "And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands?  Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends."  Contrary to church dogma, Dante, Milton, and Baxter, Jesus is just not going to send His friends to Hell, even if it does exist, and we have yet to find evidence for that.  Just imagine Jesus in a Westboro Baptist picket line, carrying a sign reading "My friends in Hell" – sounds a bit absurd, yes?

Hell is just not to be found in the book of Zechariah.

[Lazarus Short]

Malachi
We have more hints of Jesus here, as in 3:2-3 – "...he is like a refiner's fire, and like fuller's sope: And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver..."  We see this process as involving people, and only compared to gold and silver, which do need fire for refinement.  The soap hints that He cleanses us, not just the sons of Levi, but maybe all mankind.

Now, at the very end of the OT, I run into a snag, in Chapter 4.  It begins, "...the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven, and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up...it shall leave them neither root nor branch."  Then there is verse 3, "And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this..."  What are we to make of this?  Is it speaking of Hell, of the 70 AD siege of Jerusalem, of nuclear war, or of the Lake of Fire?  I honestly don't know, but it seems to indicate a coming time of judgment.  Eventually, we will know, and for now, the chapter gives us no hint if this happens in the real here-and-now world or not.

Hell, then, cannot be concluded from the book of Malachi.

Further, given all the above, neither Hell, nor the concept of it can be supported by the whole of or any part of the Old Testament.  It is just not there!  Those who want to latch onto unproven and unprovable passages (as regards my Thesis), such as Malachi's Chapter 4, are just grasping at straws, I think.  I have seen some passages that give me pause, but as a whole, the No Hell thesis fits the text and the textual evidence much better than the Hell thesis.

[marie glen]

Amen!! (and there endeth the Old Testament..)

Logically, I would very much lean toward thinking the ashes will be underfoot upon earth.. with the wicked (and the not yet saved) not around until the 2nd resurrection.. :2c:

When I think of the phrase "with no root nor branch" I can't help but think of the world's banks and their many branches :laughing7:
(mankind's final global empire & system?)

"…the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven" ..."and they gathered to Armageddon" "He comes with angels and with fire"

Amos..
..It is vital to realize that what God sets as punishment for all these groups, takes place in the real world, not in the afterlife.

-----
This is a great study Lazarus! It seems to be coming along very well! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Lazarus Short]

Thank you, Marie!  When I began, I assumed Hell would be a tougher opponent!  :punish: That's Hell on the left, Laz on the right.

[micah7:9]

Well I certainly hope you are happy thus far in your study, showing and proving that a [hell] of eternal torment is not the wages for sin nor the wages for anything at least in the OT!
I might say I'm very proud of you old boy...you and your grit! :dsunny: 

[Lazarus Short]

 :thumbsup: :winkgrin: :Peace2: :declare: :friendstu: :URWelcome:

[Lazarus Short]

The Gospel According to Matthew

First of all, let's see what this term "gospel" means.  In the dry dictionary sense, it refers to various accounts of the life and teachings of Jesus the Christ.  Most of us are aware that it means "good news," from the Greek word "euangelion."  "Angel" and "evangel" come from the same root word. 

With that understood, how can "gospel" in any way, in any sense involve the possibility of eternal, conscious, torment in everlasting fire?  That is NOT good news, reader, and if this Hell really exists, and many or most of humanity is going to such a place, then the message/evangel/gospel is Bad News for most of us.  Moving into the New Testament as we are, my sub-thesis is that the Gospel IS good news, and therefore Hell cannot exist.  Let us go forward like good Bereans, then, and see if these things are true...or not.

The first thing of interest that we see is Jesus' name (1:21) – my KJV footnotes His name as meaning literally, "Savior," and the same verse adds "...he shall save his people from their sins."  Note here that it is sins Jesus will save His people from – not Hell.  Just as I stated that the Gospel and Hell cannot both be true, Jesus as the Savior of the World, and Hell, cannot both be true.  Jesus saves the whole world, or He does not.  A hint is given in this verse because of what is not said – is there no mention of Him saving His people from Hell because there was/is no need to say so?  Because there was/is no Hell to save them from?  As I said about the creation, silence here is quite a lapse if Hell actually exists.

Now along comes John the Baptist, and then the Pharisees and Sadducees.  He tells them, "Who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?  Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance." (3:7-8)  He must have been thinking back to Chapter 24 of Jeremiah – the very good and very bad figs.  Well, figs grow on trees, and he tells them "...the ax is laid unto the root of the trees...every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire." (3:10)  Does this represent Hell?  Read on:  "...he [Jesus] shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire." (3:11-12)

I submit to you that this is the same fire, and certainly not Hellfire, because Jesus baptizes with it, and baptism is part of the Good News, is it not?  We know by now that God's fire is for cleansing and purifying, so if the proverbial trees are cut down and cast into the fire, it means that the unrepentant have their wood, hay, and stubble burned away – the dross of sin and wickedness - leaving the gold, silver, and precious stones, even if a small amount.  Looking ahead to I Corinthians 3:15, we know that, "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."  This can not possibly be more clear:  even if you go through the fire, you are saved, and this should put paid to any fire = Hell arguments.

Let's not move on quite yet, for there is more in verse 12, which says that Jesus will baptize you (you, me, everybody) with the Holy Spirit and with fire.  My take on this threshing-floor exercise is that it applies to all, and that the kernel of wheat is us, both the grain and the chaff.  They are present together as part of the same seed head.  Threshing the wheat involves beating the grain to separate the grain from the chaff, and winnowing to blow the chaff away, either with a fan or using the wind.  Thus the chaff, standing in for our wood, hay, stubble - our carnal natures, is separated and burned.  Now if you want to think the fire was Hellfire because it was unquenchable, there is really no need or justification for thinking the fire was any different from any other fire which burns until there is nothing more to burn, thus unquenchable.  The wheat, being a symbol of our spiritual riches, is gathered into a barn representing the Kingdom of God.  I used to think that the wheat was one class of people and the chaff another, but the clue is in the detail that they are together until the threshing.  We are both wheat and chaff until our carnal natures are cleansed away.  We will return to this theme again.

Chapter 4 and along comes the tempter/devil after Jesus has fasted 40 days.  He tempts Jesus four times, and Hell is not mentioned.  Just as in the book of Job, he is operating on the earth, and no other place or domain is evident.

In 5:19 Jesus describes who will be called least and greatest in the kingdom of heaven, and in that we see no hint or threat of Hell at all, just as we did not see it in the Law as given to Moses.  In the following verse He goes on to say that one's righteousness must be of a high order to enter this same kingdom, but do not think that heaven is closed to the unrighteous forever – remember that we have already seen that the wicked and such suffer loss, but are saved as through fire.  That is how this writer puts it together.

On the other hand, Jesus amplifies the message of the Law, explaining that not just killing is a matter for judgment, but so are hurtful attitudes and/or words – a very high standard indeed, of righteousness!  Now in verse 22, we see "hell fire" for the first time.  Now, we are in the Greek-based NT, so it is not footnoted as "Sheol," but as "gehenna."  This is not Hell, for Jesus is merely saying that bad actions cross over from the area of safe moral action into unsafe areas, where being executed and having your dead body burned with other refuse in Gehenna, a physical place in the real word, was possible.  Theo-illogical sleight-of-hand has been at work here.  To illustrate this point, Jesus describes three real-world situations in verses 23-26, none of which involve Hell.  Moving on to verses 27-30, Jesus speaks of cutting off an eye or a hand, rather than having your whole body cast into hell.  Well, that's Gehenna again, and what I said above applies here as well.  Better to cast off the part and live in the safe moral area than to keep the part and veer off into sin and dangerous moral territory, to be executed and have your body (body only, note!) burned in the city dump with other refuse, for that is exactly what Jesus was talking about, IMHO.
 
Winding up Chapter 5, Jesus tells us, "Love your enemies...bless them...do good to them...pray for them..." (5:43-48)  This does not make a lot of sense if Hell is to be the destiny of the evil, the unjust, the wicked.  Is it just possible that Jesus told us this because He plans to remake such people as good, just, upright?  Did He not say, "Behold, I make all things new."?  Yes, He did, in  21:5 of the Revelation, and that would surely include all men.

In 6:14-15 and 7:1-2, we run into the idea of forgive and be forgiven by God, or fail to forgive and God will fail to forgive you.  Conversely, judge not and be not judged, or judge and be judged by the same standard.  I suppose these are often cited, but Hell is not mentioned, and it works equally well for the fire-forever crowd and for those preaching eventual reconciliation.  We know by now that God is not angry forever, so will He withhold  His forgiveness forever?         Will His judgment against us stand forever?  My guess, based on what we have seen so far, is that He will not, but these verses can go either way.

At 7:12 we encounter the Golden Rule, and what a wonderful rule it is!  But have you ever wondered if God follows it?  Jesus says, "...this [the Golden Rule] is the law and the prophets."  If that Law is in fact a transcript of the mind of God, and I think it is, then the Law's silence on the subject of eternal torment in fire speaks volumes.  Is the God of the Bible One who relegates any to Hell for any reason?  We know two things by now, at least:  God creates good and evil to exercise His purposes in the here-and-now.  God gives us broad hints of eventual salvation and blessings for all.  On Hell, He is silent.

Moving on, we quickly come up against the broad and narrow ways, in 7:13-14.  The narrow way leads to life and the broad way leads to "destruction."  Does this have anything to do with entering the Kingdom, or Hell?  Note that everything Jesus has said so far in the Sermon on the Mount concerns how His hearers should live in the world.  I see this in the same light as the cutting off of an eye or hand in order to live without sin in the world, and not end up in Gehenna, burned with the trash, in the real world.  Is there more to this, an eternal application?  Yes, certainly, and I suppose it is time for me to tackle a big stumbling block.  Many people hold to the idea that your fate is sealed at death, but I cannot find that concept in my Bible.  People who follow natal astrology believe that everything about you is set by the positions of various heavenly bodies at the moment of your birth.  I noted many years ago that the daily horoscope in your newspaper is distributed by the same syndicate as are the comic strips – a big clue.  There are even better reasons to think that natal astrology is bunk.  Does death sealing your eternal fate really make any more sense?  Let's look ahead and take a quick look behind the veil.  We know that those not making the grade at the White Throne Judgment are cast into the Lake of Fire, and we know that it is the second death.  Remember that Death and Hell (footnoted "Hades") are also cast in.  That's a bit confusing, but it is not the end of the story.  In fact, we see a time much further from us than the filling of the Lake of Fire, in I Corinthians 15:25-26, "For he [Jesus] must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.  The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."  I ask you a fair question reader:  How can anyone still be dead and/or in Hell after that?  Further, verse 28 states that all these things happen so "...that God may be all in all."  Again, how can anyone still be dead and/or in Hell if God is going to become All in all?  We will return to these passages later.

Fire again in 6:19 – "Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire."  Yes, this might be, and probably often is, used as a picture of Hell.  However, earlier in His sermon, Jesus spoke of the lilies which grow today and tomorrow are fuel for the oven.  He said nothing bad about the lilies, and if we are going to pick up every instance of "thrown into the fire" to refer to Hell, then we must settle on a capricious God who sends the innocent lilies as well as the bad-fruit trees into Hell.  I think I'd rather see them as real-world illustrations.

After His tree comments, Jesus speaks of those He never knew, who He commands to depart, apparently not allowed to enter the Kingdom.  Our brief peek behind the veil, just two paragraphs ago, applies here.  These people are not yet worthy of the Kingdom, or to be in the presence of Jesus, so they will depart for more refining, cleansing, and repentance – it makes at least as much sense as them being whisked off to Hell, and the passage does not say they will be.

In 8:12, Jesus remarks on those "...cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."  This seems to be worked into Hell thinking, but it is just a loss of status for those cast out.  Picture a Sabbath dinner, the sun having set on Friday night, and some are kicked out of the house into the dark outside, just like the unfortunate wedding guest of Matthew 22:13.

An odd thing here is to notice something mentioned only four times in the OT:  devils, demons.  The devils in charge of the two men of Chapter 8 know who Jesus is, and what their fate is (torment), but we don't have a clue as to what they are exactly or where they come from.  Given their association with Hell, we will see what we can gather from the New Testament.

Another item we will keep an eye on is the assertion that Jesus said more about Hell than anything else.  Well, it sounds absurd on the face of it, and it might fly with people who do not read their Bibles.  However, see 9:35 – "And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching...preaching the gospel [good news] of the kingdom, and healing..."  Verse 36 goes on to say, "...he was moved with compassion on them..." so it's not easy to picture a compassionate Jesus, Who later sends many of them to Hell.  No, Hell is not mentioned here, nor any dire warnings.  Stay tuned.

Jesus tells us in 10:26, "...there is nothing covered that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known."  Then comes verse 28, a puzzle – "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."  "Hell" is footnoted here as "Gehenna," and I can only figure this out by seeing it as a comment on those killed here who will later be resurrected to life, becoming living souls again.  Then, there are those who are executed for crimes, have their dead bodies burned in Gehenna (real world again), and are later cast into the Lake of Fire for their shortcomings.  But that is just my own interpretation.

In 11:23, we have "hell" again, and it refers to a whole city, Capernaum, being "brought down to hell."  Now "hell" in this case is footnoted by a new word, the Greek "hades."  Let's check this out.  Hades was the name of the Greek god of the underworld, and also of the underworld itself, The Hebrews called the realm of the dead "sheol," and when the Hebrew Old Testament was translated into Greek as the Septuagint, "sheol" was rendered as "hades."  A form of this word, "aides," means exactly what "sheol" means:  the unseen – that is to say, the realm of the dead, the grave, the pit.  It is the best equivalent in the Greek language, but there was a price to pay.  The Hebrews had the correct take on the state of the dead, but after the good news began to go out to the gentiles/nations, many Greeks began to be converted.  It was inevitable that they would bring in, at least subconsciously, their old, pagan biases.  After the permanent schism between the old Hebrew religion and Christianity, about 150 AD, I'm sure religious thinking became more Greek.  Later, Latin speakers, who were well accustomed to re-alignments between religions, such as merging their gods with Greek gods, brought a whole new spirit of syncretism to Christianity.  By about 500 AD, a lot of pagan temples, holidays, and beliefs had been grafted into the religious tradition handed down from the time of Acts, but that is far beyond the scope of this essay.  This half-pagan Christianity reached the Saxons, both on the Continent and in Britain, and their Hel became Hell in time.  You see, the Saxon, Germanic, and Norse Hel was their goddess of the underworld.  This underworld was called "Helheim," meaning "the House of Hel."  Interestingly, the roots of the word "Hel" hark back to the original meanings of Sheol and Hades – covered and hidden. [Source:  Orel, Vladimir. 2003. A Handbook of Germanic Etymology. p. 156, 168.]  The true Britons, now pushed into such corners as Wales, had a more pure version of Christianity, as it had arrived in Britain in the first century – but that is another story.  Since the Saxons had Hel, goddess and realm, and the Greeks had Hades, god and realm, I suspect the Saxons had long contact with the Greeks before they moved north and west – again, that is another story.  That, reader, is my take on how "hell" got into the English language, and some of my historical information may not be accurate, but the very similarity of "hel" and "hell" should send the serious Bible student on a word-study quest.  It should also give pause to anyone who subscribes to the doctrine of Hell, as the very name of this Saxon underworld exposes the pagan roots of Hell for all to see.

By the way, my researches on "hades" took me to my Oxford English Dictionary, a reference dictionary if there ever was one, and it stated that the word "hades" did not enter the English language until about 1600 AD, having to do with some theological controversy.

Jesus, in 12:26, speaks of Satan's kingdom, but where and what would that be?  Remember that when Jesus was tempted, Satan offered Him all the kingdoms of the world, "...All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me."  Were all these kingdoms really Satan's to give?  It's a sobering thought.  In 12:29, Jesus speaks of the "strong man's house," and again, it is the domain of Satan.  Jesus speaks of binding Satan and plundering his house, but Hell is not mentioned as Satan's kingdom or his house.  What is mentioned in the Bible is the Earth, where Satan goes to and fro, and walks up and down, as we read in Job 1:7.  Elsewhere, in the Gospel of John, Jesus calls him the "prince of this world."

Now we come to a tough one – the Unforgivable Sin.  Jesus identifies it as blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, something so serious that it will not be forgiven, "neither in this world, neither in the world to come." (12:32)  In case you might think this act is a fast track to Hell, look at the footnote, for "world" is footnoted as "age."    Since the next age to come, the 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom, is undoubtedly not the last (see I Corinthians 15:23-28), this sin may well be forgiven in time – a long time.

Parallel to the parable of the wheat and chaff, Jesus tells His disciples the parable of the wheat and tares, in 13:24-30.  The wheat and chaff are together until the threshing, but the wheat and tares are not even the same species.  In this parable the non-wheat stands for the wicked, for Jesus goes on to explain the meaning of the parable to His disciples in 13:37-43.  He states that "...the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the Devil..."  Note that these tares are harvested first, bound, and cast into the fire.  Hell?  I think not, unless you insist on overlaying the Hell doctrine on everything in sight.  No, the great consuming, purifying fire at the end of this grand story the Bible tells is the Lake of Fire, burning to ashes or the Second Death.  Happily, we know by now that this second death is not the end, for the last enemy to be overcome is Death itself.  It is axiomatic that this overcoming of death must involve the release of the dead from the Lake of Fire, just as the sea gave up its dead at the first resurrection.  Yes, it's just that simple.

[Lazarus Short]

The Gospel of Matthew, continued:


Jesus concludes His talk at 13:48-50, speaking of fishermen keeping the good fish from their nets and casting away the bad fish.  Further, "the angels shall...sever the wicked from among the just.  And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth."  Again, an unnamed furnace of fire is not Hell, and the wailing and gnashing do not make it so, either.  Even so, we see that the judgments of God are severe at the end of this world age.  There will be wailing and gnashing, but these last only until the second death takes the wailers and gnashers in the Lake of Fire, and that death, like any death is a state of sheol/non-existence.

Jesus quoted Isaiah 29:13, in Matthew 15:9 – "...in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men."  Given what we have thus far, I think I can state with some confidence that the doctrine of Hell falls into this category.  Why?  We see the doctrine of Hell taught, preached, and codified in most churches (not all), yet we cannot find it yet in the Bible, even the KJV.  That being so, we must state that the doctrine of Hell is a commandment of men, and therefore to subscribe to the doctrine of Hell is to worship Him in vain.  Don't get mad at me – I'm just running with what He said.  Jesus says it can be so.  We see it in 17:12, concerning the doctrines of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

Answering Peter about the small stone of Peter and the large stone upon which He would build His church, Jesus states, "...the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." (16:18)  The word rendered as "hell" is "hades" again, already dealt with at length, so I do not think I am too far out of line to say that Jesus was looking forward to the deaths of all the Christian martyrs over the centuries, and still dying for their Lord today.  Now if sheol/hades has gates, figuratively speaking, this indicates the entry to death, and Jesus knew that for all those who have died for their faith in Christ, estimated at about seventy million, His church still thrives.  With over two billion adherents, it is the most numerous religion in the world.  However, most churches incorporate the Hell doctrine in their creeds or foundational documents, so Hell is made a part of that "large stone" upon which Christ's Church is built.  It is a mixed metaphor at best, and at worst, it is the house Jesus spoke of, built mostly on the Rock, but also partly built over the gap of the Hell we have yet to find in the Bible.  Because of that gap in the foundation of the house, when the rain, floods, and winds come "and beat upon that house," it will be in danger of falling.

In the next verse (19), Jesus grants Peter, or will grant Peter, the keys of the kingdom of heaven, telling him of binding and/or loosing on earth and in heaven.  I confess I don't know the full meaning of this grant, and perhaps it simply meant that the disciples' works were going to have eternal results, but I note that Hell had no part in Jesus' grant.

A lot is made of Jesus' statement, "For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?  or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?" (16:26)  Here, we just need to go back to the creation of Adam in Genesis.  Body + Spirit = Soul, that is to say, a living, breathing, thinking person.  The "soul" is not some ineffable thing we have inside us which is coveted by both God and the Devil.  Jesus is merely asking rhetorically - what is of  more value to a man than his life?  To lose your own soul is not to be sent to Hell, but to simply die, as I have pointed out many times.

Jesus says that He "...shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works." (16:27)  Some will read into this that Jesus will give good rewards to those with good works and punishment to those with bad works.  Compare with  I Corinthians 3:14-15 – "If any man's work abide [endures] which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."  I had quoted verse 15 before, but adding verse 14 completes the picture.  Paul implies that all are saved, but some are saved "as by fire," and whether that is the Lake of Fire is yet to be seen, but it probably is.

Jesus condemns those who entice to sin, saying, "...it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea...Woe unto the world...woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!" (18:6-7)  No reason is given to assume the woes lie anywhere else than in the real world.  He then returns to the theme of cutting off a hand, foot, or eye in order to "enter into life" instead of being cast into "everlasting fire" (18:8) or "hell fire." (18:9)  The "everlasting fire" is footnoted "gehenna," thus death and burning in the garbage dump, and by association and parallelism, "everlasting fire" must mean the same.  Anyway, no one enters life, the afterlife in the Kingdom, minus a hand, a foot, or an eye – that would be absurd.  It must mean, in my humble opinion, simply getting on with your earthly life.  As I said before, Jesus is simply saying it is better to live without a body part which leads you to sin, crime, prison, execution, and having your body burned in the dump instead of being given a decent burial.

In 18:11-14, Jesus states that His mission is to save that which was lost, and relates the parable of the shepherd, 99 kept sheep, and 1 stray sheep.  He says that the shepherd is happier with the 1 than with the 99, and don't you think that Jesus has a whole lot better chance of finding that lost sheep than the average shepherd?  Of course He does, and "...it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish."  Little ones – that's you and me, brother, and is our puny human will going to prevail against the Wills of Jesus and His Father?  I think not.  Theology has a term for it:  Irresistible Grace.  Combine that with God's will for none of us to perish, and it means Eternal Security to me.  How about you?

Chapter 18 concludes with the parable of the king who was settling accounts with his servants.  This reminds me of the splinter in another's eye versus the beam in your own, and the small forgiveness you need to extend to others to merit the great forgiveness from God.  In the parable, the evil, non-forgiving servant is sent to the king's torturers, and "So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses." (18:35) Some read Hell into that, even though it is not mentioned, but I think it is more important to remember the principle mentioned by Matthew, Mark, and Luke:  With what measure you use, your own reward will be measured – at least that is how I understand it.  What Jesus says above reminds me of something I heard on the radio not too long ago:  To refuse to forgive is to burn a bridge, not behind you, but one which you yourself must cross.

At 19:23-24, Jesus makes His famous rich-man-camel-needle's-eye comment, but note that the direction is always up, not down:  Earth to the Kingdom of Heaven/God (as difficult as that may be), never Earth to Hell.  When His disciples ask in the next verse, "Who then can be saved?," Jesus answers, "With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."  This is a moment in the story of the Bible when one just might get to thinking, the rich can be saved, so anybody can be saved, so everybody can be saved?  Is such a thing possible?  Jesus hints that it is, but He cautions in verse 30, "But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first."  He goes on to illustrate with the parable of the man who paid all his help the same, no matter how many or how few hours they had worked, and finishes with, "...for many be called, but few chosen." (20:16) The topic continues, as Jesus speaks to the priests and elders in 21:31.  He tells them that not only are the elders and priests, who are in a high position in this world, going to enter the Kingdom after the tax-collectors and harlots, but He fails to indicate any destination besides the Kingdom of Heaven.  Is it too much to believe that your worst outcome is merely a late entry to the Kingdom?

Winding up this theme, Jesus relates the parable of the wedding in 22:1-14.  The invited guests prove unworthy, so the King's servants "...gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good..."  Is this a picture of all men in Heaven, both those who were bad and good on Earth?  One man was there for whatever reason without proper garments – he was bound and cast into outer darkness.  This is just a bum's rush out the door, a precipitous loss of status, but this outer darkness will only be identified with Hell by those already subscribing to Hell.  I see it as an illustration of what Jesus said elsewhere, that those who have little will have what little they have taken away.

In contrast to all the pagan religions with their gods of the dead, Jesus affirms in 22:32 that His Father is not a god of the dead, but the God of the living.  Never is Satan given parity with God, by being named or considered a god of the dead, the damned, or of the underworld.  As I mentioned many pages ago, we have Heaven and Earth, a hierarchy, not a dualistic struggle between Heaven and Hell with the Earth and its humans as a prey between them.  God has stated clearly that He owns this Earth, and as its creator, He should.  As He says in Psalm 50:12, "...the world is mine, and the fullness thereof."  We have seen how Satan offered Jesus all the kingdoms of this same Earth, yet we must remember that Satan obtained his title to it by fraud in the Garden of Eden.  His fraud will be overturned and his rule brought to an end.  In this sense, yes, the Earth and us are a prize, but it is a temporary situation, not the grand, eternal standoff depicted in medieval art, and only slightly downplayed by the modern church.

"Hell" shows again, in Chapter 23.  First in verse 15, footnoted as "gehenna," as we have seen, a place in the real world.  Second, in verse 33, not footnoted, but other sources indicate that it too, should be rendered as "gehenna."  Jesus is hurling insults, truth to be sure, but offensive to those He directed it to.  He is saying that some deserve, not a decent burial, but to be burned in the city dump with other criminals.  No Hell does not need to be inserted here, but was anyway by translators who could have translated more honestly.  In this regard, I must quote Jesus in 24:4, "Take heed that no man deceive you."

Jesus, in answering His disciples about the end of the world, and that word in 24:3 should have been "age," not "world," says "...he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved."  A few verses later, He tells us what kind of salvation:  "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved..." (24:22)  God's salvation extends then to both the dead and the living.

In 24:51, an evil servant is cut in two and classed with the hypocrites, with weeping and gnashing of teeth, but Hell is not mentioned.  So also for the foolish virgins of 25:11-12 who are simply left outside.  Again, the servant of the one talent was cast into outer darkness with weeping and gnashing of teeth, but Hell is not mentioned (25:30).  We keep running up against this phrase, and I think it does not mean Hell, because it is darkness, and Hell is supposed to be a fiery place.  Fire involves some light.  Put it in the context of the place and time – if you were thrown out the door into the darkness outside, you were alone, possibly cold, and facing fending for yourself, at least until morning.  You were cut off from the pleasant food, drink, and company inside, and little wonder if you wept or gnashed your teeth!  Hell is just not needed as an explanation for these turns of phrase.

In 25:32-46, Jesus separates "sheep" people from "goat" people.  The right-hand sheep are promised "life eternal," and the left-hand goats are given "everlasting punishment."  In particular, Jesus says, "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels." (25:41)  Now, the Hell-roaring crowd will think they have me.  Nope.  First, let's look at what fire is prepared.  It is most certainly NOT the classic Hell of Dante, Milton, and Baxter, as Satan presides over that, at least in their theological fantasies, and he is most certainly not in charge here.  Sometimes we must look ahead, and this is one of those times.  We find a fire prepared, or at least, the devil is cast into it – the Lake of Fire, as we see in the Revelation, 20:10.  Now that we know the fire is God's fire, the reader should recall that His fire is redemptive in nature, cleansing and purifying, not destroying and punishing.  It burns up the chaff, the tares, the wood, hay, and stubble; what it leaves is gold, silver, the precious things which endure fire.  The goat people will suffer loss, as we read earlier, but they will be saved, but as through fire.  The last point may be the most difficult:  how long will they be in the fire?  Forever?  That would make no sense – why purify and cleanse them with fire forever?  That would just get back to punishment and destruction.  Do you see how the time factor is so important to the Hell theory?  Now the KJV uses terms like "eternal," "everlasting," "for ever," and the like.  The YLT uses the term "age-during," a clumsy term, and it refers to a long span of time, but not an infinite one.

So, we must stop here and look at a few Greek and Hebrew words.  My own research finds only two times in the New Testament where "eternal" comes from an equivalent Greek word – "aidios."  No, it's not "goodbye" in Spanish.  The fact is that in the ancient world, concepts like "eternal," "zero" and "infinity" were slow to develop.  The ancient Egyptians expressed eternity as "millions of years," which gives us the feel, but that is not really eternity, as millions of years still have an end and a beginning.  The Greek word all-too-often mistranslated as "eternity" is "aion," which was transliterated into the Latin "aeon," and that came down to us as the English "aeon" and "eon."  In the Hebrew, we find the same meaning in "olam," mistranslated in the Old Testament, also too often, as "eternity."  In the early sense that Homer used, "aion" meant a lifetime.  Today, "eon" is often used to refer to forever, everlasting and eternal, but in the Biblical sense we should keep in mind that it is best used to mean any long but finite period of time. To put it in perspective, if we are speaking of God, Who is uncreated, we can speak of eternity.  If the subject is the created cosmos, then we must speak of aeons or eons, as the cosmos has a beginning, and is therefore, not eternal.

Back to Matthew 25:32-46, we should now know that Jesus is sending His right-hand sheep, not to "life eternal," but to the life of the aeon, or "aeonian life."  In the same way, His left-hand goats are sent, not to eternal punishment, but to an aeon or eon (beginning and end, remember) of punishment, chastisement, correction, and purification.  Having dealt now with the eternal part of eternal torture (aka, Hell), the torture part must wait until we reach the Lake of Fire in the Revelation.  Stay tuned.

Having worked through the Gospel of Matthew the Publican, this writer cannot find any support for Hell or eternal torture In it.

 

[micah7:9]

May I say Excellent! :HeartThrob: :dsunny:

[marie glen]

..also, the bad fish being separated from the good.. I've noticed God's Word is not static in time.. some things and references are grouped together and we read them as being straight as to time and its unfolding.. But I don't think the message is really like that.. For instance, how the two advents of Jesus are often written (were spoken of) in one continuous paragraph.

To, me (and as a possibility to add to the topic) i would read this as at the end of Judgment 'day' the angels will sever the wicked - who although they have experienced being resurrected and have witnessed what surely(?) will be a very long day of judgment/discerning/&review (prophesied by Day of Atonement - 2nd peak in the Lord's 2nd advent {represented/prophesied by a holy day} :sigh: wish I could say that better w/o leaving most of it out..

Tho they have lived through all that, they still refuse to "believe" and thus have their names "written in the Book of Life". I'm actually thinking there might not be that many of them.. :smile: :Peace2:

I'm reading your last recent post, first :doh: :mock:

[marie glen]

how can "gospel" (good news?) in any way, in any sense involve the possibility of eternal, conscious, torment in everlasting fire?

:gthumbsup: ..amen! for even one.. let alone so very many!! :mshock:

it is sins Jesus will save His people from – not Hell

..the fig tree...the winnowing.. the wheat and the chaff..

:ty: you said that so well! And it makes a LOT of sense!

May I say Excellent! :HeartThrob: :dsunny:

Amen.. I have to agree..

[marie glen]

quote - "the Gospel and Hell cannot both be true"


.."saved yet so as by fire"

   !! :thumbsup:

[Lazarus Short]

The Gospel of Matthew took a lot of time, a lot of pages, and I feel worn out, but maybe that's just my work around the house...
It's quite a change from the happy days of knocking out one minor prophet per day...
I thank all for your comments!

:dsunny:

[marie glen]

I had to come back off and on all day to read the two posts on Matthew.. but it was sure well worth it!! What a wealth of information and I think you said so many things.. so veRy well!! All so good for piercing through the habitual false light one is accustomed to coming across concerning the verses assumed (for no biblical reason!) to refer to a 'hell'. What excellent work Lazarus! :gthumbsup: :smile: I understand the outer darkness much better now! ("outside in the dark, cold, hungry, alone and missing the banquet"!)

I (also) especially liked - (and pardon all my quoting, it's a way I like to study..)

"strongman's house" and "see all these things (of my dominion/kingdoms)" satan said.. "no mention of hell"

"the Rock built on if it has gaps just may act as sand.." 

"bind or loose in heaven as on earth & vice versa.. again no hell"

'to lose the soul.. the life.." (can destroy body and life in gehenna..)

"shall reward every man according to his works."

"not the grand, eternal standoff depicted in medieval art, and only slightly downplayed by the modern church."

I never realized that about "he who endures to the end will be saved.." (survival! "except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved..." - I do love learning new things about His Word/Truth)

"God's salvation extends then to both the dead and the living." I agree.. only verse I can think of that could be possibly thought of to allude to - after death no hope, would be when Jesus told the pharisees unless they repent/change their mind, they would "die in their sins" to me simply means they would also then rise in  their sins.. less joyful for a time, than rising to meet Him at His coming..

" eon (beginning and end, remember) of punishment, chastisement, correction, and purification." and "curtailing" if I remember right is the root Greek word, of the Greek word used..

and, ""Take heed that no man deceive you." :gthumbsup:

Lately I've been noticing the phrase "will fare better, or worse, on judgment day" such as Sodom will fare better than the pharisees.. can't think of the other examples right now.. kind of disposes with the idea of the (2nd) resurrection of the unsaved being a case of woken up and simply cast/thrown away into a hell...

the unforgiveable sin i think of as the unable to be forgiven sin.. while harbored in the heart - blasphemy - for it involves hating God.. and it is unforgiveable as long as it is being held .. :2c: :smile: present tense is used much more, I think, in the Greek (and also Hebrew) than is in the modern way of thinking.

and ( :2c: ) the gathering at the end of the age.. wheat is gathered by His angels "He comes with His angels" .."and so shall we ever be with the Lord" after "meeting Him at His coming" ...but the tares, which gathering comes first "are gathered to the armageddon" battle..?

" just as the sea gave up its dead at the first resurrection." ... is at the second resurrection (20:5,7,11-13)
It's too bad the Book of Revelation  is at the end of the Bible, because if well understood it is a key which puts much of the rest in proper place and order.. sort of like Genesis does too..

(i'm not trying to nitpick these little points or anything.. just thinking if you publish this using lulu dot com or another, print and, or ebook, it would make a great gift for nonbelievers.. and some believers.. and of course its accuracy will make it penetrate.. no leaven leavening the message..

I would be most interested in a copy for myself too! I know we have this thread.. and I just may reread it!
..thanks!!