The lake of fire or Le lac de feu

[jabcat]

WW, aren't you saying things die in the LoF, not people?  I.e., works not of God burned up (wood, hay, stubble), but the spirit saved "as by fire in the day of the Lord"?  So there's death and destruction, but actually what comes from that is new (refined) life?  As in God creating the conditions for every knee to bow and every tongue confess?  I believe that's actually what J.Preston teaches, if one looks at his teachings as a whole and in context.

If I'm misunderstanding what you're saying lemme know  :bigGrin:.  But is this at least close?

[WhiteWings]

I think that's pretty close James. I have no very clear view of it. (even if it may sound that way in my posts)
Your wood, hay, stubble question is good.
Maybe I borrow a bit from the wheat and chaff parable.
The complete man that's cast into LoF is wheat as it grows on the land.
==> Wheat = Chaff + core/seeds (I don't know the name for it)
Just as in the parable the fire of LoF will destroy=kill=death the chaff
But also like the parable the "core/seeds" are saved.

I (think I) understand TonyN's reasoning. The normal/1st death defines how the 2nd death is. It's certainly something to consider. But OTOH Jesus wasn't giving a lecuture on farming. Maybe he did; spiritual farming...
Then there are things like "fullars soap" "refiners fire"
I have a strong feeling they are not about Father's hobbies. Lake=water=soap. Fire=refiner.
Plus according to lexicons the torment in LoF means "tested like gold is tested by a refiner". A not so passive sounding death.
I'm just trying to fit in the info. TonyN calls it "sophistry" I just call it "not ignoring other info

[Molly]

Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:



12Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon:

13Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach ready to fall, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant.

14And he shall break it as the breaking of the potters' vessel that is broken in pieces; he shall not spare: so that there shall not be found in the bursting of it a sherd to take fire from the hearth, or to take water withal out of the pit.

--Isa 30



Isaiah 30:27
Behold, the name of the LORD cometh from far, burning with his anger, and the burden thereof is heavy: his lips are full of indignation, and his tongue as a devouring fire:



Malachi 1:4
Edom may say, "Though we have been crushed, we will rebuild the ruins." But this is what the LORD Almighty says: "They may build, but I will demolish. They will be called the Wicked Land, a people always under the wrath of the LORD.

"crushed"

H7567
רשׁשׁ
râshash
raw-shash'
A primitive root; to demolish: - impoverish.


Matthew 21:44
He who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces, but he on whom it falls will be crushed."


"crushed"

likmaō  autos


G3039
λικμάω
likmaō
lik-mah'-o
From λικμός likmos, the equivalent. of λίκνον liknon (a winnowing fan or basket); to winnow, that is, (by analogy) to triturate: - grind to powder.



G846
αὐτός
autos
ow-tos'
From the particle αὖ au (perhaps akin to the base of G109 through the idea of a baffling wind; backward); the reflexive pronoun self, used (alone or in the compound of G1438) of the third person, and (with the proper personal pronoun) of the other persons: - her, it (-self), one, the other, (mine) own, said, ([self-], the) same, ([him-, my-, thy-]) self, [your-] selves, she, that, their (-s), them ([-selves]), there [-at, -by, -in, -into, -of, -on, -with], they, (these) things, this (man), those, together, very, which. Compare G848.


21And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.

--Isa 30

[Tony N]

Hey Tony,

I have been out of town the past ten days... and of coures getting ready a week before has caused me to miss much ... so... I have been following as best as I could.   :mblush:

So would you do me a favor?   :HeartThrob:  Because in the next two weeks I have to prepare again (overtime :sigh: at work)  for another 10 day trip... wife's family this time!  :thumbsup:

Could you take the time to gather up (that is collect) and put into one single post your view of the second death. What I'm asking is ... what does "the lake of Fire " and or "Second death"  mean to you?

What do you see? ....  This would really save me and I'm sure a few others from having to search past post, and yet... give you to opportunity to put it all together in one single post! Here is your time bro... Post your entire view in a single post!!!  Let your light shine brother, show me what you see!  :thumbsup:


Paul

It is really simple. I will try to  condense it all.
Those not found in the scroll of life will enter into the second death. Death is the absence of life. So those cast into the second death are cast into the absence of life.

It does not say that those not found in the scroll of life will live.

The most logical conclusion one can make from "those not found in the scroll of life" is that such ones will not be living for the duration of that new earth age.

Those found in the scroll of life will be living.

Therefore, the second death is not a second life.
The second death is not where just part of the person is burned away but the rest of the person is living.

The second death is not a second dying.
The lake of fire is the absence of life.

The second death is called second  because it is a repetition of the first death.
These people who will stand before the great white throne were resurrected out of the first death. These people who are not found in the scroll of life, were resurrected out of that first death to be judged according to their acts. They are judged and then cast into the second such death.

The lake of fire is not a second death for Satan because he never died the first death.

The lake of fire is not about wheat and chaff. That is a wholly other matter completely different from the second death.

The lake of fire is not about "everyone will be salted with fire" (as if that means everyone ever born will be cast into the LoF). The context of that statement was Christ teaching his disciples concerning those who offend in the kingdom He will be setting up and who commit bad enough things which will cause them to be cast into the fires of Gehenna. The "everyone" ("one" is in lightfact in the CLNT) is the "every" of the context. Every person not controlling their eyes, hands and feet as to what they do improperly will have their dead bodies destroyed by the fires of Gehenna. That is what "salted with fire" means.
Gehenna is not the lake of fire. It comes 1000 years prior to the lake of fire.

The phrase "Our God is a consuming fire" has nothing to do with Gehenna or the lake of fire. It was written to the Hebrews concerning "Heb 12:28 Wherefore, accepting an unshakable kingdom, we may have grace through which we may be offering divine service in a way well pleasing to God, with piety and dread,
Heb 12:29 for our God is also a consuming fire."

The writer of Hebrews was talking about the giving of the law on the mountain with fire and threats if anyone came near the mountain. God is not the second death. The Jews are to serve Him with piety and dread.

The phrase "fire and sulphur" (some translations say "brimstone") has nothing to do with making a person acceptable to God for those cast into the absence of life. It has everything to do with cleansing the earth, the new earth, of evil people.

The phrase "yet they will be saved, yet thus AS through fire" has to do with the judgment of the saints as to how they built on the foundation. If they built improperly with teachings like wood, hay and stubble, (those things just stand for bad teaching) then those works will be burned up. Not the parts of the saint will be burned up but their bad works. Yet, the apostle says, they will be saved, yet thus AS through fire. That is not saying they will be saved through fire but will be saved as if it were through a fire. That has nothing to do with the lake of fire and nothing to do with death.

One Corinthians fifteen verses twenty through twenty-eight is all about vivification and God's grand goal of being All in all.
In verse 1Corinthians 15:26 it says: "The last enemy is being abolished: death." If the second death is some sort of life, then is the last enemy "life"? The last enemy is the absence of life. That death is what is keeping people from God being All in all. Once that death is done away after Christ quits reigning and all sovereignty, authority and power is done away then death is abolished. This proves death is not abolished in the book of Revelation.

If the second death makes people acceptable to God then it is a friend and not an enemy. The Bible calls it an enemy. It is an enemy because it cuts people off from God. Everyone wants to make death a friend. But it is an enemy.

The only way those evil people will be changed is when they are resurrected out of the absence of life, put on immortality and incorruption and God is All in them. This is all due to what Christ accomplished for them. God will then be their Father and they His loving children.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Tony, you may not be aware of it, but WhiteWings is a European, therefore his English, though very good, may be slightly "different" in structure and the way WE would express ourselves. Nuff said? Blessings...

[Molly]

Death is the absence of life. So those cast into the second death are cast into the absence of life.

"The Walking Dead"

I'd rather be dead than to live like this
Than to just exist a hand and no fist
See the walking dead around me
Waking up and breaking down before my eyes
Rather be dead, rather shoot and miss
Rather die for a kiss than to live like this

Hear the walking dead surround me
Giving in and giving up because

[Chorus:]
We're all doing fine
And we're falling fast behind
I don't think we'll be the same again
We're losing our minds
We're all doing fine
Is there anyplace to hide?
I don't think we'll be the same again
We're losing
We're losing our minds



We walk tonight

I'd rather be dead than to have no hope inside
Watch my will bleed away and my soul divide
Feel the walking dead around me
Getting closer moving farther from the light

I'd rather be dead, stay alive to find
Somewhere I belong, someone to call mine
See the walking dead surround me
See the life and see the death and now


[Chorus:]
We're all doing fine
And we're falling fast behind
I don't think we'll be the same again
We're losing our minds
We're all doing fine
Is there anyplace to hide?
I don't think we'll be the same again
We're losing
We're losing our minds


[Chorus]

Reach out
I never get it
It's just out of reach and
I watch it slipping away
Reach out
Just forget it
It's never good enough
It's never going to be the same

[Chorus x2]


[Chorus:]
We're all doing fine
And we're falling fast behind
I don't think we'll be the same again
We're losing our minds
We're all doing fine
Is there anyplace to hide?
I don't think we'll be the same again
We're losing
We're losing our minds

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYlLLB_ORSU




6Wherefore I put thee in remembrance that thou stir up the gift of God, which is in thee by the putting on of my hands.

2 Timothy 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

[Tony N]

:cloud9: Tony, you may not be aware of it, but WhiteWings is a European, therefore his English, though very good, may be slightly "different" in structure and the way WE would express ourselves. Nuff said? Blessings...

Thanks Cardinal, I didn't know that.

[reFORMer]

Those not found in the scroll of life will enter into the second death.

Scripture never directly answers the "if" in this word, "If anyone was not found written in the scroll of life, he was cast into the lake of fire." (Rv 20¹⁵, CLT)  It seems to me that if we add words to what is written, that there were 3 or 3 billion for instance, we are liable to have added to us the plagues of this book.[/quote]

The second death is called second because it is a repetition of the first death.

Let's not get into a back and forth "proving" spirit, soul and body are dead in the death of the body.  Many believe that only the physical body is dead in the death that results in a corpse that usually is buried or burned and that the spirit exist apart from it, which is what I believe. It is not what I'm directly asserting here.  I'm only describing a path to the assumption that if the first death is the death of the body, then would the 2nd death be the death of the spirit?

There several (at least 5) ways the word death is used in the N.T..  Why, other than assuming it, should I think the 2nd death is just a repetition of the death of the body?  For a long time I thought that we were born spiritually dead, which was why we needed to be born again.  We are born with the 1st death.  Our spirits needed to be quickened unto life by union with the Holy Spirit in our bodies with us.  Those made alive like this are the bride, being in union with Him.  That would make the death of the body the 2nd death.

Then Paul says, "Not first the spiritual, but the soulish, thereupon the spiritual." (1 Co 15⁴⁶, CLT)  Does that puts us back at "spiritual" death being the 2nd death?  Let me add, just because a person is honest about his belief and presents it sincerely with integrity it does not convince me that belief is factual.  I need it to be clearly stated in actual Scripture's words.  I've not yet found a secure understanding on this topic.

The second death is not where just part of the person is burned away but the rest of the person is living.

Any Scripture directly stating this?

The lake of fire is not a second death for Satan because he never died the first death.

While I find no statement in Scripture to the effect that, "Lucifer became Satan," or that, "Satan was Lucifer," it is interesting to note that if he, "...walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire," (Ez 28¹⁴, AV) then, because solid fire like a neutron star would be much hotter than liquid fire like our sun or the lake of fire, it would be very cold in the lake if the stone was the normal manner of existence.

The second death is called second  because it is a repetition of the first death.
These people who will stand before the great white throne were resurrected out of the first death. These people who are not found in the scroll of life, were resurrected out of that first death to be judged according to their acts.

At least 5 times in the Bible it is recorded that, "God judges everyone by their deeds," Jeremiah, Paul and Jesus say it.  It's even in the last chapter in the Bible.  Everyone!

[micah7:9]

What is the absence of life?

[Tony N]

What is the absence of life?

Death is the absence of life.

[Molly]

What is the absence of life?

No Christ.


John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

[Beloved Servant]

No Christ.
    :thumbsup:

[Tony N]

Those not found in the scroll of life will enter into the second death.

Scripture never directly answers the "if" in this word, "If anyone was not found written in the scroll of life, he was cast into the lake of fire." (Rv 20¹⁵, CLT)  It seems to me that if we add words to what is written, that there were 3 or 3 billion for instance, we are liable to have added to us the plagues of this book.

Dear reFormer,  "if anyone" likewise does not mean that most of the billions resurrected to the GWT will not be cast into the second absence of life.

Rev 2:11 '"Who has an ear, let him hear what the spirit is saying to the ecclesias. "'The one who is conquering may under no circumstances be injured by the second death."
Rev 20:6 Happy and holy is he who is having part in the former resurrection! Over these the second death has no jurisdiction, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will be reigning with Him the thousand years."

The one conquering will be in the first resurrection and will not be injured by the second death. The mass of mankind, the billions upon billions of humans have not conquered and therefore will be injured after the GWT.

So those in the first resurrection the second death has no jurisdiction. Therefore all those who are in the resurrection after the 1000 years who will stand before the GWT, the second death will have jurisdiction. Those are the ones not having their names in the scroll of life. The conquerers will have their names in the scroll of life and not enter the second death.


(Revelation 20:15 CLV)  And if anyone was not found written in the scroll of life, he was cast into the lake of fire."

Also, the point is some believe the second death is life or some form of life. But how can it be life when those cast into the absence of life are the ones not found in the scroll of life?

Also, since none are righteous, not one is just, not even one, since the venom of asps is under their lips and their feet are sharp to shed blood and all avoid him, and since this is written concerning the billions and billions of people who ever lived, how many of those people do you think should be in the scroll of life? Let me ask you this: How many of the billions of people made it on to Noah's ark? How many just had part of them die in the flood?

The second death is called second because it is a repetition of the first death.

reFORMer replied:
Let's not get into a back and forth "proving" spirit, soul and body are dead in the death of the body.  Many believe that only the physical body is dead in the death that results in a corpse that usually is buried or burned and that the spirit exist apart from it, which is what I believe. It is not what I'm directly asserting here.  I'm only describing a path to the assumption that if the first death is the death of the body, then would the 2nd death be the death of the spirit?

Tony's reply:
No. If the spirit leaves the body then the body dies and the soul returns to the imperceptible or unseen. The Bible states that "if God withdraw the spirit then all die." When the spirit of Christ returned to God Who gave it Christ died. He was in unconscious death. He wasn't playing checkers in some part of heaven while dead. He relied on God to rouse Him from death because He could not do it while dead. He did not ascend to His God and Father while in the tomb (John 20:17).

reFormer wrote: There several (at least 5) ways the word death is used in the N.T..  Why, other than assuming it, should I think the 2nd death is just a repetition of the death of the body?  For a long time I thought that we were born spiritually dead, which was why we needed to be born again.  We are born with the 1st death.  Our spirits needed to be quickened unto life by union with the Holy Spirit in our bodies with us.  Those made alive like this are the bride, being in union with Him.  That would make the death of the body the 2nd death.

Tony's reply: The death all these people are resurrected out of to stand before the great white throne is the first death. After they are judged according to their acts they enter into the same death again being their second death.

reFORMer wrote:
Then Paul says, "Not first the spiritual, but the soulish, thereupon the spiritual." (1 Co 15⁴⁶, CLT)  Does that puts us back at "spiritual" death being the 2nd death?  Let me add, just because a person is honest about his belief and presents it sincerely with integrity it does not convince me that belief is factual.  I need it to be clearly stated in actual Scripture's words.  I've not yet found a secure understanding on this topic.

Tony's reply:
Paul did not quote 1 Corinthians 15:46 to state what you are stating. He was talking about in verse 51 that **WE** believers shall be changed from a soulish body (a body ruled by the soul) to a spiritual body (the same body but ruled by the spirit). He was writing about the resurrection of the saints and in verses 51-54 about putting on incorruption and immortality.
If all those standing before the GWT put on incorruption and immortality they would not be hurt by the second death but we know they will because only those in the first resurrection will not be hurt by the second death nor be under its jurisdiction.

The second death is not where just part of the person is burned away but the rest of the person is living.

reFORMer replied: Any Scripture directly stating this?

Tony's reply: Any Scripture directly not stating this?
The first death they were resurrected out of did not burn away anything. They enter into the second death which is a repetition of their first death.

The lake of fire is not a second death for Satan because he never died the first death.

reFORMer replied: While I find no statement in Scripture to the effect that, "Lucifer became Satan," or that, "Satan was Lucifer," it is interesting to note that if he, "...walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire," (Ez 28¹⁴, AV) then, because solid fire like a neutron star would be much hotter than liquid fire like our sun or the lake of fire, it would be very cold in the lake if the stone was the normal manner of existence.

That is all speculation.

The second death is called second  because it is a repetition of the first death.
These people who will stand before the great white throne were resurrected out of the first death. These people who are not found in the scroll of life, were resurrected out of that first death to be judged according to their acts.

reFORMer replied:
At least 5 times in the Bible it is recorded that, "God judges everyone by their deeds," Jeremiah, Paul and Jesus say it.  It's even in the last chapter in the Bible.  Everyone!

Right, we believers are judged now so we are not condemned with the world (1 Cor.11:32). We believers will not stand before the great white throne like the world will who will be condemned to the second death.

[Tony N]

What is the absence of life?

No Christ.


John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

No Christ = no life = death = second death = absence of life

[WhiteWings]

^ERVRev 14:10  of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

[Tony N]

^ERVRev 14:10  of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

And Elmer Fudd cannot pronounce 'r' properly.

Why you brought 14:10 up probably shows you don't know the context of that verse. It has to do with the destruction of Babylon *in the day of its destruction* and not about the lake of fire.

[Tony N]

WW, aren't you saying things die in the LoF, not people?  I.e., works not of God burned up (wood, hay, stubble), but the spirit saved "as by fire in the day of the Lord"?  So there's death and destruction, but actually what comes from that is new (refined) life?  As in God creating the conditions for every knee to bow and every tongue confess?  I believe that's actually what J.Preston teaches, if one looks at his teachings as a whole and in context.

If that is what J. Preston Eby teaches then he is wrong.
It is not about "If things are not written in the scroll of life."

Rev 20:15 And if anyone was not found written in the scroll of life, he was cast into the lake of fire."

So the "anyone" and the "he" are cast into the second death, not the bad things which they did.

Also the "wood, hay and stubble" being burned up is only to do with the believer and how they built upon the foundation. And they will be saved YET THUS AS THROUGH FIRE. It will be LIKE A FIRE but not a real fire. It is a figure of speech. They don't go through the lake of fire because we will not be judged with the world.

I wish you would write to Eby and see if he can correct his mistakes on this matter. Else all that will just be burned up like the wood hay and stubble.

[WhiteWings]

^ERVRev 14:10  of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

And Elmer Fudd cannot pronounce 'r' properly.

Why you brought 14:10 up probably shows you don't know the context of that verse. It has to do with the destruction of Babylon *in the day of its destruction* and not about the lake of fire.

And what is Babylon? Manmade religion. And who are in that religion? People.

[Tony N]

^ERVRev 14:10  of God, which is prepared unmixed in the cup of his anger; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

And Elmer Fudd cannot pronounce 'r' properly.

Why you brought 14:10 up probably shows you don't know the context of that verse. It has to do with the destruction of Babylon *in the day of its destruction* and not about the lake of fire.

And what is Babylon? Manmade religion. And who are in that religion? People.

We are talking about physical Babylon at the moment. And, yes, you are correct that people will be destroyed when it is destroyed by fire much like Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by fire and brimstone.

[Molly]

No Christ = no life = death = second death = absence of life

So, no matter what--it all comes down to the same thing.

1That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

2(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

--1John 1

And what is Babylon? Manmade religion. And who are in that religion? People.

Babylon is a 5000 year old satanic world system which includes manmade religion.

Proverbs 8:36
...all they that hate me love death.

[WhiteWings]

And what is Babylon? Manmade religion. And who are in that religion? People.

Babylon is a 5000 year old satanic world system which includes manmade religion.

Agreed. That's a more correct/complete definition.

[Tony N]

Molly, are you sure about that?

1Pe 5:13 Greeting you is the ecclesia in Babylon, chosen together with you, and Mark, my son. "
Was Jesus Christ's church in the Satanic system?

Babylon in Revelation is a city, not a Satanic system:

(Revelation 14:8 CLV)  And another, a second messenger, follows, saying, "It falls! It falls! Babylon the great has made all nations drink of the wine of the fury of her prostitution!"

(Revelation 16:19 CLV)  And the great city came to be divided into three parts; and the cities of the nations fall. And Babylon the great is brought to remembrance in the sight of God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fury of His indignation."

(Revelation 17:5 CLV)  And on her forehead is written a name: Secret Babylon the Great the mother of the prostitutes and the abominations of the earth.

(Revelation 18:2 CLV)  And he cries with a strong voice, saying, "It falls! It falls! Babylon the great! And it became the dwelling place of demons and the jail of every unclean spirit and the cage of every unclean and hateful bird,

Notice only after it falls does it become a place of demons and unclean spirits and unclean birds.

(Revelation 18:10 CLV)  standing afar off because of the fear of her torment, saying, 'Woe! Woe! that great city! Babylon, the strong city! for in one hour your judging came.'"

(Revelation 18:21 CLV)  And one strong messenger lifts a stone, as large as a millstone, and casts it into the sea, saying that "Thus Babylon, the great city, will be hurled down, and nevermore be found in it."

When Babylon the city is destroyed by fire and brimstone just as Sodom and Gomorrah were the people will be tormented in the day of its destruction. That day is not the lake of fire. The lake of fire comes 1000 years after the city Babylon is destroyed.

[Molly]

Molly, are you sure about that?

1Pe 5:13 Greeting you is the ecclesia in Babylon, chosen together with you, and Mark, my son. "
Was Jesus Christ's church in the Satanic system?

Babylon in Revelation is a city, not a Satanic system:

Yes, I'm sure.  The church of Christ is in the Satanic system but not of it.

Babylon is also referred to often as a city because the city is part of the satanic system.   God placed Adam in a garden, not in a city.  Cain built the first city after he was banished from God.

People say--Babylon--it's New York, it's London, it's Rome.  Yes, it's all of those and more.   Man was not created to live in cities.  Cities are satan's system.


8And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

--Gen 2

[Tony N]

Molly, are you sure about that?

1Pe 5:13 Greeting you is the ecclesia in Babylon, chosen together with you, and Mark, my son. "
Was Jesus Christ's church in the Satanic system?

Babylon in Revelation is a city, not a Satanic system:

Yes, I'm sure.  The church of Christ is in the Satanic system but not of it.

Babylon is also referred to often as a city because the city is part of the satanic system.   God placed Adam in a garden, not in a city.  Cain built the first city after he was banished from God.

People say--Babylon--it's New York, it's London, it's Rome.  Yes, it's all of those and more.   Man was not created to live in cities.  Cities are satan's system.


8And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

--Gen 2

You are sure but surely wrong. Babylon is a city. Peter didn't go to New York or London and neither did the ecclesia of Christ Peter wrote about.
What Bible verse says people are not created to live in cities? The New City Jerusalem will land on the earth and people will live in it. God likes cities or He would not build one.

The fact is this: in Revelation 14:8-11 it is a city which God will destroy.

"Revelation 14:8-11 CLV  And another, a second messenger, follows, saying, "It falls! It falls! Babylon the great has made all nations drink of the wine of the fury of her prostitution!"  (9)  And another, a third messenger, follows them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone is worshiping the wild beast and its image, and is getting an emblem on his forehead or on his hand,  (10)  he, also, is drinking of the wine of the fury of God, blended undiluted in the cup of His indignation, and he shall be tormented in fire and sulphur in the sight of the holy messengers and in the sight of the Lambkin."  (11)  And the fumes of their torment are ascending for the eons of the eons. And they are having no rest day and night, those worshiping the wild beast and its image, and if anyone is getting the emblem of its name."

It is not talking about the lake of fire.

[Molly]

The New City Jerusalem will land on the earth and people will live in it. God likes cities or He would not build one.

well, the new Jerusalem is certainly unlike any city that has ever been seen on earth--so much so, that people consider it heaven [pearly gates, streets of gold, etc]

I myself consider it a metaphor--but that's neither here nor there.

It is not talking about the lake of fire.

I agree with that.  Babylon--the world system-- will be destroyed before the thousand year reign of Christ from the new Jerusalem [since they are mutually exclusive], IMO.


24And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

--Rev 21