The lake of fire or Le lac de feu

[thinktank]

:cloud9: My  :2c:.....Just because something is unseen and inperceptible by human eyes, does not make



The body is not the soul, and neither is the spirit the soul, which is why we are spirit, SOUL, and body, not spirit and body. The soul is feminine, the feminine aspect of ADAM, and God Himself said it is not good for man/Adam/spirit to be alone, ie. without his soul = dead.

Hello cardinal, I'm not denying what you said, I have not processed it yet, but from my understanding I would have said that the soul part, being the physical embodiment, would be masculine and that the spirit being receptive would be the feminine part. So Adam was created in balance, but yet his body swayed on the masculine side, so he would need a body that complimented this, so God created a physical representation of femininity by creating Eve, so that now both their bodies are complimenting each other, but yet both Adam and Eve retain masculine and feminine qualities, each can exibit qualities of the other, but yet the physical make up means that Eve would more likely, behave in a feminine manner and Adam because of his masculine body, would push him to behave in a masculine manner. Typically men and woman in history would not allow, people to exhibit, traits of the other, but after Christ came to restore truth and one of his teachings being
'There is neither Jew or gentile male or female, we are all one in Christ Jesus'
I belive that one of those truth would be to bring back wholeness in our souls, so that we are not overly dominated (I say overly because it must be thus, that we are dominated by the traits of our gender) by one gender expression, so that we can become more alive. So now it is more acceptable for a man to look after his kids and for a woman to work, this gives society more freedom. :2c:

[Zero7]

...I'm saying there is a purgatory-type experience for the soul....

I agree 100% Cardinal. NDE'ers say there are different realms or frequencies for the soul. The 'hitlers, stalins and cold-hearted' are in a lower realm and it's quite unpleasant. The 'good-hearted' are in a realm frequently referred to as summerland and they are enjoying things we can't even imagine.

One thing we need to remember, time ceases on the other side, thats why when a NDE'er comes back, even though they were only dead for say 10 minutes, they say it felt like they were there for months/years.

From what I read, whenever someone in a lower realm cried out to God, He pulled them out (forget Mary Baxter, she is a fraud). No one stays in that state forever as almost everyone here knows. As far as using scripture using the term 'sleep', that is very accurate. What happens when we sleep now? We dream. On the other side, dreams are reality.

[Cardinal]

:cloud9: The soul already existed. He took her out of Adam's heart and made her into a visible form to show her to him. Rib is as a side, the same word there is used for Noah's ark's boards.

A rib is the only body part when amputated correctly grows back :winkgrin:
The Y-chromosome is alos missing a side compared to the X-chromosome :msealed:

:cloud9: That's really interesting WW  :thumbsup:

[Cardinal]

(Ezek. 18:4) "the soul that sinneth, it shall die."

If our soul is spirit and goes on to the Father when we die as some believe, then why does this say "the soul that sinneth it shall die"

If our soul is spirit and goes on to be with God or retained in some holding place, that would mean it didn't die, but this verse says differently.

According to this verse the soul dies when the body dies.

CHB

:cloud9: That's a good point, CHB.  :thumbsup: And again, from what He's shown me, the soul is the "us" part of the equation. It's what people are seeing when they say they saw a ghost.

BEFORE He showed me this, I had decided that ghosts were demonic spirits impersonating humans, because of thinking that the soul and spirit were the same thing. So I reasoned that if the spirit returns to the One who sent it, then ghosts can't be of humans.

So this represents a change for me also, in my thinking. Some of the scriptures didn't make sense obviously, if I thought that the soul and the spirit were the same, and it was nagging at my spirit that something wasn't "right".

The change started with Him speaking to my spirit, over and over again one day, "Male and female created He them", and I just kept answering, "Yes, I know, Lord", LOL.  :BangHead: (He doesn't have to hit me with a brick much, DOES He, LOL?)

FINALLY, when it sunk in He was trying to get me to press in, the understanding "AHA" moment was quickened to me about the 5th time of Him saying this, and I HEARD it. Male and female created He THEM. BOTH of them were created male and female. And then I was like "duh", I am so dense, Lord, LOL. Blessings...

[Cardinal]

:cloud9: My  :2c:.....Just because something is unseen and inperceptible by human eyes, does not make



The body is not the soul, and neither is the spirit the soul, which is why we are spirit, SOUL, and body, not spirit and body. The soul is feminine, the feminine aspect of ADAM, and God Himself said it is not good for man/Adam/spirit to be alone, ie. without his soul = dead.

Hello cardinal, I'm not denying what you said, I have not processed it yet, but from my understanding I would have said that the soul part, being the physical embodiment, would be masculine and that the spirit being receptive would be the feminine part. So Adam was created in balance, but yet his body swayed on the masculine side, so he would need a body that complimented this, so God created a physical representation of femininity by creating Eve, so that now both their bodies are complimenting each other, but yet both Adam and Eve retain masculine and feminine qualities, each can exibit qualities of the other, but yet the physical make up means that Eve would more likely, behave in a feminine manner and Adam because of his masculine body, would push him to behave in a masculine manner. Typically men and woman in history would not allow, people to exhibit, traits of the other, but after Christ came to restore truth and one of his teachings being
'There is neither Jew or gentile male or female, we are all one in Christ Jesus'
I belive that one of those truth would be to bring back wholeness in our souls, so that we are not overly dominated (I say overly because it must be thus, that we are dominated by the traits of our gender) by one gender expression, so that we can become more alive. So now it is more acceptable for a man to look after his kids and for a woman to work, this gives society more freedom. :2c:

:cloud9: I agree with much of this, but the spirit is the male and soul is feminine. The gender of the word is even feminine. The male plants the seed, the seed is spirit. The soul is literally the "womb-man". She reproduces whatever seed is planted in it.

What you are saying of the spirit being receptive is true, but it's our in Christ Spirit that becomes receptive to His leading again, just as Adam was before the fall. It's all about Him consuming every part of us. Blessings....

[WhiteWings]

We are a triune being of spirit, soul, and body; and as you know, the tabernacle had 3 compartments. The spirit is what is saved first of the 3 parts of man. So we start with all 3 parts in the realm of the outer court. That's the same as Adam/spirit and Eve/soul standing in the wilderness after the fall, and this is the place of OUTER darkness, with weeping and gnashing of teeth.

More compartments ahead  :winkgrin:

This post has been editted and moved to THIS thread.

[Cardinal]

...I'm saying there is a purgatory-type experience for the soul....

I agree 100% Cardinal. NDE'ers say there are different realms or frequencies for the soul. The 'hitlers, stalins and cold-hearted' are in a lower realm and it's quite unpleasant. The 'good-hearted' are in a realm frequently referred to as summerland and they are enjoying things we can't even imagine.

One thing we need to remember, time ceases on the other side, thats why when a NDE'er comes back, even though they were only dead for say 10 minutes, they say it felt like they were there for months/years.

From what I read, whenever someone in a lower realm cried out to God, He pulled them out (forget Mary Baxter, she is a fraud). No one stays in that state forever as almost everyone here knows. As far as using scripture using the term 'sleep', that is very accurate. What happens when we sleep now? We dream. On the other side, dreams are reality.

:cloud9: Ok, now here's some more He's given me to chew on. He made us in *their* image, male and female. He is a creative being. We are capable of creating, not just in the physical realm, but in the realm of spirit, and not just in HIS Spirit.

What the NDE's are seeing, is the "glory" their souls created, relative to the depth of their relationship with Him, or lack thereof, when they passed over. As I said earlier, we eat of the fruit of our own lips, and He reproves us with our own wickedness.

I read an account of a woman who died and went to the heaven experience and saw Jesus or a light being she knew was Jesus, can't remember which. Anyway, she talked about how beautiful it was, and she discovered all she had to do was TAKE A THOUGHT of it, and beautiful flowers sprung up before her as she walked thru this bright meadow scene.

Christ, Paul told the Ephesians, is FORMED IN US. By taking thoughts (which are His breath), that originate from the throne that reveal some aspect of HIS glory/nature, He begins to take "shape" in us. This is why it says we cannot BY TAKING THOUGHT (ours) add one cubit to our stature (Christ in us) and why Christ in us, is the HOPE OF GLORY. The Word states there are different glories, some terrestrial, some celestial.

The thoughts that originate from the throne that are His breath, it's no different than when the Spirit hovered over the face of the waters (waters below the firmament, which is EVERYTHING under heaven), and the earth was void and without form. He is basically doing to our "earth" what He did in Genesis, and just like Adam, we are co-creators.

When Adam named the beasts, because He was set over the creation to have dominion as a king, and to have a priest function, those names/natures he spoke out of his HEART (his "Eve", the stony heart), came to pass.

The native Americans, who He told me had reached out and were "found" of the Great Spirit but only didn't know His name, were taught some truth (as ALL are, but they see thru a glass/darkened soul without the light of Christ within) regarding the NATURES of the beastly kingdom.

This is why He took the animals (carnal beastly natures) into Noah's ark. The ark represents Christ and the natures those things formed out of the heart/soul of us that need to be cleansed. He could have just created new ones after the flood, but the message would not have been there that He wanted to communicate. It required Noah's cooperation and obedience to take the "natures/names" into the Ark representing the covering of Christ.

It's also the same reason why He told them to put the tablets of the law (stony heart) into the Ark of the Covenant. The message is, the woman/soul MUST have a covering. What happened when "she" was uncovered, when the wrong people opened the Ark of the Covenant? Death ensued.

The same principle is why the rod of Moses ate the rod of the Egyptians: covering. The authority of God ALWAYS seeks to cover the woman/soul with Himself in mercy. Jesus showed this same principle with the woman they were going to stone to death.

The woman/soul being uncovered, produces GIANTS, which is what happened when the Nephalim spirits joined themselves to women. This is the same as the tares that were planted while we "slept". It's the same as the woman/soul that "sleeps", that has not awakened IN Christ, not awakened in the glory of His making, but of "her" own creation, ie. her "purgatory". Also, compare this with the GIANTS that were in the land of Canaan.

A giant is that which is above the measure of the stature of Christ, ie. excess flesh and bone/law/letter, adding to the ETERNAL WORD which is the risen Christ, which carries a curse. The curse is to have the plagues added to you (tares/darkness).

The book of life, IS CHRIST, and what He writes of it IN OUR HEARTS/WOMAN as His breath coming to us, transforming our souls INTO A HEART OF FLESH (celestial flesh = glorified Christ), producing the RIGHT GLORY, for the covering of our "woman".

So Christ IS the glory of the Father, that we are to PUT ON, as a covering for our soul/woman. This is how He is restoring His creation. "She" will no longer "wear" the shame of "her" transgression in this purgatory false glory, but "she" will be raised up and clothed with Christ. Praise You Father!

Canaan is as the glory, the promised "land". There are giants we created there, but no matter, for they are bread for us (we consume them/cover them with Christ).

A little aside here; the man was put to death for working on the sabbath by being stoned with stones at God's command. The same principle exists here. The stony hearts from which thoughts come that are not His thoughts, are the stones that stone us to DEATH, and not life.

Our taking thought, is as WORKS, HIS thoughts, lead us into His rest/sabbath, which is the same as the state/glory Adam had before the fall. This is why He prayed about the glory being restored, to change our "heaven/glory" from terrestrial in origin, to celestial, ie. the mind of Christ.

It is increasing the false covering of the "stony heart Eve/soulish realm" who usurps the authority of her husband in disobedience. The "stones" that HE desires we "stone" people with, are the scriptures/stones that have been "struck" by Him, to REVEAL the LIVING WATER of the life of the Spirit, which is the risen Christ.

This principle is why He/Christ will go to cover the "naked woman/soul" who is without covering, in a purgatory of "her" own making. Our own righteousness is as filthy rags. Righteousness is not only a character but a covering, and He comes and is forever coming, to cover our nakedness with Himself.

The scene in the tomb foretells this. The napkin they placed over His face, was neatly folded, AFTER He arose. This was a custom of the day, that when the master of the house left the table, but intended to come back, he would fold the napkin neatly so the servants would know He was returning. If it was just thrown down, they knew He was done. Well, HALLELUYAH, the Master returned and ever returns to cover us (face speaks of nature) with Himself. Blessings....

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: (WW's post for brevity) WW THAT IS TREASURE!!! Halleluyah, another piece of the puzzle that the pattern of the heavenlies, or heavenly things, bears witness to, ie. the TABERNACLE. Father, we give You praise, this day, for You alone are worthy!

Ok, glory attack.....now where is the rest of the article??? Blessings...

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Hey, WW....will you repost that article under our Tabernacles sticky thread? Blessings...

[WhiteWings]

:cloud9: Hey, WW....will you repost that article under our Tabernacles sticky thread? Blessings...

Done.

[WhiteWings]

now where is the rest of the article??? Blessings...

It was the forword of 450 page book.
It's not really about the Tabernacle. It's mainly about where Jesus was crucified. But the author uses all kinds of facts to prove his point.
I'm just on page 31 so can't tell you about what kinds of stuff he's using. But the "temple has 3 altars" is interesting too.
I close this post with a tiny riddle. Was Jesus crucified near an altar? :winkgrin:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: PS. I've just keep editing my last post a lot as different pieces of the puzzle are coming to mind, so bear with me. I hope I communicated what I was trying to express, with at least, SOME clarity, LOL.....praise You Father.

@ WW....I'd bet He was....He walked out the pattern PERFECTLY in all that He said and did. Blessings....

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Ok, wow...there is so much more tying into this, I decided to start another post. This principle of Him changing "her" glory, is also born witness of Him saying to Herod that fox, that today (1000 years) and tomorrow (1000 years) I will do cures and cast out devils, which He has been doing if we are pressing in to Him.

This doing cures (healing same as making WHOLE, the Spirit coming into union with the soul) and casting out devils is part of the plan to change our "glory" that the soul inhabits.

The devils that are cast out, are cast out of our soul, thus changing our glory by changing our perception of HIS glory, thru the mind of Christ. This is why it says we are changed from glory (terrestrial/carnal mind) to glory (celestial/mind of Christ).

Wow. Ok, this is also why He talked about the men/spirits that had changed their glory....

They are the creation of the giants in our "land", the abode of the soul, the "glory" it has attained to at present, whether in the body or out of it, it matters not, it is in a glory of some sort.

But He said the 3rd day He would be perfected. We know He was already perfect, but He had no where to lay His head. The authority rests upon the shoulders = mind of Christ, and as it was "fleshed out" in the long post above, the mind of Christ is the glory of His covering. He has been preparing souls to receive their true Head; praise God, He is coming IN GLORY.

This is why Christ in us, is the hope of glory, and why Paul said that what was within us, was going to swallow up the corruption, and it begins with the spirit, then the soul, and finally the body. Halleluyah!

Check it out.....

Psalms 106:20 KJV
Thus they changed their glory into the similitude of an ox that eateth grass.

Romans 1:23 KJV
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

2 Corinthians 3:18 KJV
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

The sea of glass, then is when HIS glory has covered the woman/soul, calm because of the peace that ensues when the carnal beastly natures/flesh of the soul are no longer warring against the Spirit. PTL, THIS IS WHEN THE LION (carnal beastly natures) LAYS DOWN WITH THE LAMB! Glory! Father, we give You praise this day!

Given what has come forth in understanding in the last few posts, I'm also seeing these scriptures differently, in light of the bread that came from heaven (Christ) and the stones (things adding to our carnal beastly natures/stony hearts/souls), that need to be changed in their glory to His glory. Blessings...

Check these out now....

Matthew 4:6 KJV
And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written , He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up , lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Matthew 7:9 KJV
Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

Revelation 2:17 KJV
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone,and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

[peacemaker]

I close this post with a tiny riddle. Was Jesus crucified near an altar? :winkgrin:

Not straining at a gnat, "He altered the course of humanity."

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their
Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Just got back from diving with monk seals off the forbidden island of Ni'ihau, and three-weeks in Kauai, Hawai'i.
Although that was an interesting read, Whitewings (now, back to reading).

peacemaker

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: WOW peacemaker....that is awesome....would LOVE to do that....glad you were blessed with that experience. Blessings...

[micah7:9]

Quote from Cardinal "The soul already existed. He took her out of Adam's heart and made her into a visible form to show her to him. Rib is as a side, the same word there is used for Noah's ark's boards. Side, though, does not carry the same thought as we think of side; it's more like an opposite, but equal, opposite being one is spirit, one is flesh but the lesser reflects the greater. It's like looking into a body of water or a mirror. Compare this thought with image and likeness.

He poured Himself into His creation, but because it has visibility, it is as the lesser glory, just as the wife/soul is the lesser glory of the man/spirit, and the letter is the lesser glory of the Word that is eternal. This is why the creation mirrors attributes of His glory/nature. Blessings.... " end quote 


The soul already existed,  yes man Gen.2:7 became a living soul, man is a living soul. The "soul" is not some individual part you can just up and use. Man, became, is a living soul.  The soul became, why? Because the Lord God breathed into the dust of the ground..and man BECAME A LIVING SOUL. Man is a living soul, the soul is nothing without the body, the soul is nothing with out the spirit. The soul is not an entity, it is not something that can be  taken and put, and the the soul dies. The rib of man is not his soul.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I never said the rib was the soul, as in, LITERALLY. As a friend of mine once said, "Eat the meat and spit out the bones". Blessings...

[micah7:9]

Then spiritualy, how is it ?

[peacemaker]

:cloud9: I never said the rib was the soul, as in, LITERALLY. As a friend of mine once said, "Eat the meat and spit out the bones". Blessings...

A boneless Prime-rib, not a sparerib.

Love it!  :HeartThrob:

[Nathan]

For me, it's not what the bone "is", it's what it represents.  My ribs protect my heart and lungs, that which pumps life/blood and that which inhales and exhales the air.  Ever hear of the protective nature of a mother?  I guess I see in the marriage the Father guides the family, it's the mother who protects the children.

David talks about our soul being a her when he states "My soul makes "her" boast in thee Lord.  The soul apparently has enough value to where the Father has paid preciously to save it.

These discussions have shed much light on what my soul is and what may happen to it once this body of flesh takes it's last breath.  I still don't have any solid answers, but I do have a sense of direction from it all now. 

But as for Eve, she isn't "the" soul, she represents "the" soul of man.  Adam represents the spirit of man.  So when it states Eve will desire after Adam, that's not an act of romance, it's God explaining the laws of this realm Adam and Eve were about to experience.  The Mind will always want to be in control over the spirit.  My Eve will desire after my Adam.  But God has established his authority in Adam, not in Eve.

Which is to say it's my spirit that has authority over my mind.  The serpent, to me is the carnality that governs this realm and deceived the mind of man.  It wasn't just that Adam ate of the forbidden fruit, it was that he received it from his Eve.  He submitted to that which he was to subdue.

When I call it "spiritually" to me, that means I see it "inwardly".  The gospel is the simple story of God creating man, man falling from God, God restoring man back to himself by sending the last man, which is Christ.  That is the seed.  What Scripture does, is it takes that redemptive seed and it reproduces it over and over and over again all through Scripture.  It's the same story over and over, the characters may change, the setting may change, but the story stays the same. 

It may be planted in different backyards.  It may go through several owners through generations of time, but it still remains an Oak tree that annually produces acorns that eventually are planted and they reproduce more oak trees, after their own kind.  It's how the gospel is spread across the world . . .one tree at a time.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen...

[Taffy]

 :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower:


still catching up on this thread  :icon_flower: ..started with the latter...excellent tie In with the Tabernacle WW, Ty for that..Likewise PM, ref , Nat  and Card... :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower:

:icon_flower:

[peacemaker]

Taffy-man  :hithere:

[WhiteWings]

We are a triune being of spirit, soul, and body; and as you know, the tabernacle had 3 compartments. The spirit is what is saved first of the 3 parts of man. So we start with all 3 parts in the realm of the outer court.

Does the outer court still exist? Isn't the renting of the curtain symbolic? Like everyone is now allowed to go inside. Or said otherwise all are priests. Something in that line of thought.
:dontknow:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: The WAY has been made, but we still have to appropriate it. I'm referring to the spiritual condition of where people are in their walk. It's a walk all thru the courts, experiencing the furniture pieces, the veil being rent, ect., as the Spirit makes it life in us. Blessings....