The lake of fire or Le lac de feu

[Tony N]

                                   :bdh:

Beloved Servant, that's not very nice hitting a dead horse.  :laughing7: I'll have to report you to PETA.  :laughing7: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals.

[Beloved Servant]

That's not me swinging the club.

[Tony N]

That's not me swinging the club.

It looks just like you. I don't have any hair on the top of my head.  :laughing7:

Hey, I just got a direct revelation from God! The horse is not really dead! It is just "spiritually dead" and you are beating out the spiritual deadness with a rod of fire from it so that after it goes through the pond of fire (you can't make a dead horse drink fire water) the horse will come forth useful to God. Of course I'm just making fun of people who get direct revelations from God and they don't agree with others who get direct revelations from God too.

[Beloved Servant]

Thou mighty Christ, come forth in me;

                                                     My will, my way, I yield to Thee —

                                                     The barren sings a travailing song,

                                                     O praise His name, it won't be long!

[Nathan]

My bad, all I've seen for the most part was literal interpretations.  I guess personal revelation and literal interpretation are to be construed as one and the same then?

Incidentally, you can't eat the horse unless it's dead first anyway.

[eaglesway]

He should be hitting the horse in the head- thats where the flies are. :laughing7:

[WhiteWings]

Beloved Servant, it's not nice of you to beat Tony's hobbyhorse  :laughing7:

eaglesway. Stars not flies. 1/3 of them.

[Tony N]

He should be hitting the horse in the head- thats where the flies are. :laughing7:

Oh, let's see, flies . . . Beezeboul = lord of the flies. Dead horse, rod, hitting. We could build a whole spiritual lesson from that.  :happy3:

There was no food in the place. And they yelled "throw down the horse!" and they threw her down from the upper window and into the street below where the chariots rode over the horse and they picked up 70 baskets full.

[Beloved Servant]

Or,
maybe the horse is being struck in the right place.
Gird your loins.

[Nathan]

Surely we can tie in "kicking the goads" with that somehow!

[Novus-Ordo-Seclorum7]

 :Urock: :goodpost: :egyptdance: :myahoo: :hithere: :banana: :2thumbs:

Nate, that was awesome....

[Tony N]

O.K. so, after the sweet fellowship we've had over this "What is the lake of fire" I think it is safe to say that

The lake of fire is not God.

We are not the lake of fire.

We are not presently in the lake of fire.

The lake of fire which is the second death is not the second life.

The lake of fire is the second death.

The second death is a repetition of the first death.

The first death was absolute dead as a doorknob death.

No one is purified by the second death.

No one goes to Sunday School or Summer Camp while in the second death.

The second death is to be abolished when Christ quits reigning and all sovereignty, authority and power are annulled.

The second death is not the death of spiritual death but the whole person.

Death and Hades being cast into the lake of fire is a metonymy for all those held by death and hades.

Death and hades being cast into the lake of fire is not the death of death.

The second death is not greater than the first death.

The earth will be purged and purified of the dead, decaying bodies in the fire and brimstone.

Anybody else care to post what they have learned from what we have come up with?

[WhiteWings]

Anybody else care to post what they have learned from what we have come up with?

None of the conclusions are based on this thread.

[eaglesway]

From your post it appears that we have come up with whatever you had already believed. :laughing7:

[micah7:9]

                                   :bdh:

:thumbsup:

[Tony N]

Anybody else care to post what they have learned from what we have come up with?

None of the conclusions are based on this thread.

Are you serious?
Care to give an explanation? I'm just kind of amazed you would say that.

[Tony N]

From your post it appears that we have come up with whatever you had already believed. :laughing7:

I was actually hoping that you came to believe God that the lake of fire is death and not life.  :sigh:

That "death and hades being cast into the lake of fire" is not as the false teachers teach "the death of death" but that death and hades is a metonymy for all held by death and hades.  :sigh:

So you believe we are the lake of fire? That is so laughable it is insane.

I thought you people here were christians.  :dontknow:

[jabcat]

We can discuss without slurs.  Let's please do.

[WhiteWings]

Anybody else care to post what they have learned from what we have come up with?

None of the conclusions are based on this thread.

Are you serious?
Care to give an explanation? I'm just kind of amazed you would say that.

It very simple to answer TonyN.
Reply #461 is (as summary of) your view.
I'm sure you noticed not everyone agrees with those views.
So not everyone agrees with your views.
Personally I see not enough support for your view to accept it as a fact.
My view isn't totally insane. Notice I wrote "view" but I in no way present it as a fact. Just a view to be considered.
I know you totally disagree. That you right. But then you simply can't conclude the posters in this thread all agree with you.
There are others that don't agree with you. I won't name them. They are very able to speak their mind if they wish so.

All in all this thread that had potentional to be edifying quickly turned in a quicksand of overanalysing each comma without thinking a bit out of the box.

[WhiteWings]

I thought you people here were christians.  :dontknow:

Maybe none of us is a Christians. Maybe we are just seekers. Or pupils that once will be Christians.

is not as the false teachers teach

But who determines who the false teachers are?
IMO the best way to avoid traps of false teachers it is to be constantly open for other views and test them openminded and seriously.
If not (assumed) knowledge quickly turns into vanity....

Signed,
A seeker of the narrow road.

[Tony N]

White Wings, there you go again, overstating things by stating "overanalysing each comma" as if that is the fact as to what I did and in so doing you hoped to garner more support by making me look like some dimwitt with a magnifying glass looking at the commas rather than the whole of scripture.

Let's see if you can "think outside the box" and give attention to this:

If the second death is life, then let's face the issue in 1 Corinthians 15:26

The last enemy to be abolished is not death but life:

1Co 15:26 "The last enemy is being abolished: death," since death is life to many here at Tentmaker this must mean "the last enemy is being abolished: life."

And since some here believe we are death, since some believe "we are the lake of fire," God's main goal after He vivifies us is to abolish us.

You see, WW, it's not about commas, it's about the whole picture.

[WhiteWings]

Indeed Tony it's the whole picture.
And the picture I painted was NOT "the second death is life".
You can keep repeating that but trust me I will never agree. Simply because I never wrote that. I tried to re-explain it several times. Unfortunately with no effect.
So I think we can best agree that either you are a hopeless reader or I'm a hopeless explainer. Or both.
Whatever the answer, it will lead nowhere. If you don't even understand my view how can we even discuss it?

as if that is the fact as to what I did and in so doing you hoped to garner more support by making me look like some dimwitt

A wrong assumption TonyN. Most people on this forum already had their views way before I ever touched a Bible. So I don't think they need my posts to draw their own conclusions. Plus I'm fairly sure many disagree as much with my view as with yours. Many people. Many views. I have no hopes or no wish people follow my view.
Plus my socalled view was just something I put in the thread as a consideration. Not as a fact. Especially because I'm not sure of it either. But the discussion turned in such a way it seems I'm here to present facts instead of thoughts. But even I doubt about the view; I do not doubt what I wrote. And that was not "the second death is life".
:dontknow: Maybe someone that understands what I wrote can rephrase it for me...

[Tony N]

Geesh, WW, try to calm down and read s-l-o-w-l-y. Chill out.

White Wings you are a poor reader.

Where did I recently say YOU believe "the second death is life"?
I will let you say yourself the second death is life. Your words in italic.

Post97 you wrote:
I Tony, wrote: "The Second death is the absence of life" and you replied: "Or the birth of new life..."

Tony's reply:
Therefore you do in fact believe the second death is life.

Post 115:
That would mean the second death isn't death of the whole body.

Tony's reply:
So you do believe the second death is life of part of the body (whatever that means! LOL!)  therefore you do believe the second death is life.

post 193:
So (perhaps) LoF kills sin but not the sinner.

So according to your sophistry the LoF does not kill anyone therefore it is life rather than death to those who enter into it.


post 203:
So what if the LoF does not kill the body or spirit. But does kill sin.

Tony's reply:
See? You believe since the LoF does not kill body or spirit that it is life to body and spirit therefore the second death is life according to you.

post 206:
IF LoF is about cleaning then for me LoF can be Father.
He is not death. In fact killing sin means rebirth/awakening of a clean spirit. And that's life.

Tony's reply:
So you do believe the second death is life.

post 230:
So the death in that verse was only about the spiritual part. Not a package deal. That's another reason I don't just accept death is a package deal when cast in LoF.

Tony's reply:
Since death is not a package deal part of the package is alive therefore you believe the second death is life.

post 234:
Let me start with saying the people whose names are not written in the book of life are missing out on a glorious period. So I think we have agreement on that. But does that mean they are completely dead?

Tony's reply:
If they are not completely dead they are alive and if alive then the lake of fire is life to you.

post 234:
I'm not yet convinced it's just very dead death.

Tony's reply:
If it's not dead death then it is life.

Post 310:
What I'm tried to show is that dead people learn too.

You tried to show that dead people are alive in the lake of fire therefore you must believe the second death is life.

That's enough of your own words telling us you do believe death is life.
No where in the bible is death life. Death is the absense of life. If one is dead to God they are not alive to God, not able to learn from God. If one is really dead one is not alive, one is in the absence of life and not able to learn from God.



The fact is, yes, WW, "fact" is that you falsely accuse me as "overanalysing each comma." And the sad thing is, rather than owning up to what you falsely accuse me of you throw out red herrings to get us off the scent of what you did.

Just because I  "expose" like we are entreated to do, I realize it is a thankless job and no one likes their falsehoods exposed:

2Ti 4:2 "Herald the word. Stand by it, opportunely, inopportunely,
expose, rebuke, entreat, with all patience and teaching."

I'm not here to win a popularity context or sugar coat anything.

The reason there are many strange views here on the lake of fire is due to being deceived by certain teachers like Eby on the lake of fire.

[Pierac]

Hey Tony,

I have been out of town the past ten days... and of coures getting ready a week before has caused me to miss much ... so... I have been following as best as I could.   :mblush:

So would you do me a favor?   :HeartThrob:  Because in the next two weeks I have to prepare again (overtime :sigh: at work)  for another 10 day trip... wife's family this time!  :thumbsup:

Could you take the time to gather up (that is collect) and put into one single post your view of the second death. What I'm asking is ... what does "the lake of Fire " and or "Second death"  mean to you?

What do you see? ....  This would really save me and I'm sure a few others from having to search past post, and yet... give you to opportunity to put it all together in one single post! Here is your time bro... Post your entire view in a single post!!!  Let your light shine brother, show me what you see!  :thumbsup:


Paul

[WhiteWings]

White Wings you are a poor reader.

Where did I recently say YOU believe "the second death is life"?

In the quotes below

I will let you say yourself the second death is life. Your words in italic.
.....
Tony's reply:
See? You believe since the LoF does not kill body or spirit that it is life to body and spirit therefore the second death is life according to you.
.....
Tony's reply:
So you do believe the second death is life.
.....
Tony's reply:
Since death is not a package deal part of the package is alive therefore you believe the second death is life.

About being a poor reader. IMO you are one. Or perhaps you are a good reader clouded by black and white reasoning.  :dontknow:
For you there are 2 options:
1- 100% completely dead
2- 100% completely alive

Let's keep it simple by saying I see possibly a 3rd option. No I'm not talking about zombies.
Every conclusion you draw from my words in your summary is wrong.
The way I see you reasoning is: If it's not a mammal (dead) then it's a fish(life). My reasoning is that it also can be bird or an insect.
So to summarize a question.
The death of what?
See I used the word death? Not life.
I think for now the answer of "what" is more important that life/death.