End times?

[HartleyDamboiseII]

 :goodpost:

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me...

At least the above "good" post tells me why my post arn't being talked about, I guess some things are still being black balled from its foundings, The Roman Catholic Church of Old... 

reFormer , I believe that you did put your words in better format and Kinder, and for that I am greatful , I am not "carved in stone" believe what I teach, there IS room for me to change my thinking,

Although, I know  "I" am not a sinner, 1 John 3:1-10  "I" am not the children of the devil. I am one of the children of God...

This child will never tern back to the school of 'lack of understanding' and go back to laws, rules, statutes and judgments of the law. i.e. SIN.

Hope you still converse with me.   Lee Damboise II :dsunny: :surrender:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: You already have (been turned "back" or more like out of the way) and don't realize it, Lee. The lack of understanding He's talking about, has nothing to do in this spiritual covenant with what you gain thru what's between your ears. And you notice that He says you'll be no PRIEST unto Him.

Priests are made by the baptism in God's Spirit, not by the will or intellect of man. Believe this or not, but I'm not saying any of this to be mean; it grieves my spirit to see it. Time is grower shorter as far as His plan and I'm growing bolder to speak. It's all about His Spirit this time around, not that it wasn't by His Spirit the first time, but now it's more revealed. Blessings....

[Doug]

According to the Ultradispensationalists, the Sermon on the Mount does not apply to Christians today, but will apply to Jews in the Millennium. In his book God's Eonian Purpose, Adlai Loudy promotes the idea of two destinies for believers based on their race. Jewish Christians, he says, inherit the earth and suffer the great tribulation, while Gentile believers are up "among the celestials."

Loudy rejects the synoptic Gospels, Acts, Hebrews, the general epistles, and Revelation, and the entire OT, and claims those teachings do not apply to us today. He admits only the writings of Paul.
   
Hmm.. Let's consider how that would work.

In another thread, I listed some of the characteristics of the saints that are similar to those of Jesus. The list was based on all the NT. What if we compare only those characteristics of the saints mentioned in the writings of Paul, and those mentioned by the other writers in the NT separately? How would the characteristics of the saints who Paul wrote about compare with the characteristics of the saints according to Peter and John and Matthew and Jesus? Here, then, are two tables for comparison.  
   
According to Paul:

Jesus is Abraham's seed; Galatians 3:16	The saints are Abraham's seed; Galatians 3:29
Jesus is a Jew	The saints are "the circumcision"; Philippians 3:3
Jesus is chosen of God	The saints are chosen; Ephesians 1:4
Jesus is anointed; Acts 10:38	The saints are anointed; 2 Corinthians 1:21
Jesus is a king; John 19:19	The saints are seated in heavenly places; Ephesians 2:6
Jesus is a servant; John 13:14	The saints are servants; Romans 6:22; 1 Peter 2:16
Jesus is a sacrifice; Ephesians 5:2	The saints are living sacrifices; Romans 12:1
Jesus was a sweet aroma to God; Ephesians 5:2	The saints are a sweet aroma to God; 2 Corinthians 2:15
Jesus was crucified	The saints have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts; Galatians 5:24
Jesus was buried	The saints have been buried with him by baptism into death; Romans 6:4
Jesus was raised from the grave	The saints have been raised to walk in newness of life; Romans 6:4, Colossians 2:12
Jesus is a temple; John 2:19-22	The saints are temples; 1 Corinthians 6:19
Jesus is in heaven	The saints are citizens of heaven; Philippians 3:20
Jesus did many good works; John 10:32	The saints abound in good works; 2 Corinthians 9:7-9, Colossians 1:10

According to Jesus and the other apostles:

Jesus is an Israelite	The saints are the 12 tribes of Israel; Revelation 7:4
Jesus is a son of David	The saints are the "tabernacle of David"; Acts 15:16
Jesus is holy; Revelation 3:7	The saints are sanctified; 1 Corinthians 6:11; Hebrews 10:10
Jesus is a priest; Hebrews 4:14	The saints are a royal priesthood; 1 Peter 2:9
Jesus is the firstborn; Colossians 1:15	The saints are firstborn; Hebrews 12:23
Jesus is the firstfruits of them that slept; 1 Corinthians 15:20	The saints are a kind of firstfruits; James 1:18
Jesus is a servant; John 13:14	The saints are servants; Romans 6:22; 1 Peter 2:16
Jesus is a Lamb; John 1:29	The saints are called lambs; John 21:15; and sheep
Jesus offered himself without spot to God; Hebrews 9:14	The saints are exhorted to be found without spot; 2 Peter 3:14
Jesus is the stone that was rejected; Matthew 21:42	The saints are lively stones; 1 Peter 2:5
Jesus is the light of the world; John 8:12	The saints are called the light of the world; Matthew 5:14
Jesus is the faithful witness; Revelation 1:5	The saints are witnesses; Acts 1:8
Jesus is a star; Revelation 22:16	The saints are called stars; Revelation 12:4
Jesus covercame the world; John 16:33	The saints overcome the world; 1 John 5:4-5
Jesus is the son of God	The saints are sons of God; 1 John 3:1
Jesus is a bridegroom	The saints are called virgins; Revelation 14:4
Jesus rides a white horse; Revelation 19:11	The saints ride white horses; Revelation 19:14
Jesus said "follow me"; Matthew 16:24	The saints follow Jesus wherever he goes; Revelation 14:4
Jesus was obedient unto death; Philippians 2:8	The saints obey him; Hebrews 5:9

Loudy's doctrine seems to fail, because the ones called "the circumcision" are in Paul's section!

And the "firstfruits" are those in the other section, which completely discredits Loudy's idea that the saints destined for a "celestial" inheritance are raptured up to heaven before the tribulation.  

Note that some items occur in both tables. To me, (and to Paul) there is no difference between Jew and Gentile in Christ; we all have the same destiny! [Acts 15:9, Romans 3:21-23, 10:12, Colossians 3:11]

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Below is a quote from Loudy's chapter on justification, where he alleges the superiority of the "celestial" calling of Gentile believers. He seems to sneer at the apostles of the Lord, Peter, James, and John, in the hilighted words.

God's Eonian Purpose, Chapter 11. Justification
http://www.gtft.org/Library/loudy/Justification.htm

Dear friend and beloved in the Lord, you may search through the writings of Peter, James, and John, in fact, all the writings of the Circumcision, book by book, chapter by chapter, verse by verse, and word by word, and you will never find anything to compare with the wonderful Scriptures you have just read from Paul's writings. ... The glorious allotment which is ours among the celestials in Christ Jesus far transcends that of Israel in the earthly kingdom. Let the Jew have what God has graciously sent him through Peter, James and John and the rest of the Circumcision writers--"pardon" of sins" and "regeneration." We don't need it. God, through His vast love wherewith He loves us has given us something far better--"justification" and a "new creation in Christ." Therefore, let us get away from the terrestrial blessings of the Circumcision writings for Israel, and exult in the transcendent spiritual blessings which are ours among the celestials in Christ Jesus, of Paul's writings.

The following is a paragraph by Harry Ironside, a dispensationalist, who rebukes the doctrine promoted by Loudy and the Ultradispensationalists.

[Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth]
http://www.cnonline.net/~rkmiller/ultradispensationalism-ironside.htm

Having had most intimate acquaintance with Bullingerism as taught by many for the last forty years, I have no hesitancy in saying that its fruits are evil.  It has produced a tremendous crop of heresies throughout the length and breadth of this and other lands, it has divided Christians and wrecked churches and assemblies without number; it has lifted up its votaries in intellectual and spiritual pride to an appalling extent, so that they look with supreme contempt upon Christians who do not accept their peculiar views; and in most instances where it has been long tolerated, it has absolutely throttled Gospel effort at home and sown discord on missionary fields abroad.  So true are these things of this system that I have no hesitancy in saying it is an absolutely Satanic perversion of the truth.  Instead of rightly dividing the Word, I shall seek to show that these teachers wrongly divide the Word, and that their propaganda is anything but conducive to spirituality and enlightenment in divine things.

Doug

[HartleyDamboiseII]

so wheres the bad in Harry's Quote ? isn't that what Christians are doing, Spreading the Gospel.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: [Doug's post for brevity]  :2thumbs: :ok: :rocker :high5: :happyclap:

That it couldn't be anymore of a divisive tool against the body of CHRIST, could not be more obvious IMO. Blessings.....

[Doug]

so wheres the bad in Harry's Quote ? isn't that what Christians are doing, Spreading the Gospel.

Harry said, "its fruits are evil." He said of its promoters, "they look with supreme contempt upon Christians who do not accept their peculiar views."

His entire article is at:
http://www.cnonline.net/~rkmiller/ultradispensationalism-ironside.htm


Doug

[Barry DuPont]

Wow, nice discussion.

Firstly Reformer, your speech on love without condition sounding like nonsense really does imo illustrate how much Christians need their "sin". And need even more for everyone else to be in sin.
And of course love has boundaries. No one is saying anything to the contrary. As if Adam in the Garden could have done anything he wanted to without any consequence  because he had no sin conscience.  "Straw man" argument imo.


Quote reformer:
We are still inhabiting the carcases inherited in our birth into the world as offspring of the soilish first man .  They must be changed.
End quote.

This is where you and apparently some others here are going to dig your heals in. And of course we are here temporarily. [But what we do here matters for "here" not just "there".] And apparently it is not being proven by the scriptures but rather by an appeal to personal revelation that cannot be harmonized in the scriptures. Prove all things is failing

imo what is being pushed on this thread as gospel is "believe me God told me".

Anyone stepping back for just a moment can see that this sort of stuff is not compatible with a Father that loves us who loves his "offspring".  
"you are made wrong and wrong you shall stay until you die and in realizing that truth you can start to die to your being made wrong right now"  

Yea I'm buying it! :)

Do you not see the struggles that you put people through with this sort of teaching?

Act 17:24   God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;  
Act 17:25   Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;  

Act 17:28   For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.  
Act 17:29   Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.  

That was the message and that was the point. Not that man was made wrong or badly but that God cannot be worshiped though a mind set that he needs anything. That's it.


Act 7:46   Who found favour before God, and desired to find a tabernacle for the God of Jacob.  
Act 7:47   But Solomon built him an house.  
Act 7:48   Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,  
Act 7:49   Heaven [is] my throne, and earth [is] my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what [is] the place of my rest?  
Act 7:50   Hath not my hand made all these things?  

Isa 40:22 [It is] he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof [are] as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:  

Stars die and are reborn all the time. Is God's tent then corrupt?

What was "corrupt" in scripture? Man's building with hay, straw and combustibles. Man's building of his own potential as if God needed anything. That was the corruptible.

Living and dieing was never the problem. Nothing is ever lost with and in God. Living and dieing because the problem through man's interpretation of the knowledge of good and evil. And that brings us back to sin conscience and how Adam became mealy a man of the dust between his ears and in his conscience.
And that is what Christ came to fix.

That's all I have to say.  So I won't trouble you any more.
God bless you all.
I really do love you all agree or disagree.
Barry

[HartleyDamboiseII]

Henry said; so what, you believe every word written by men?

Many said, I only believe those things that like in Matt. 16: 17 Was and is forever revealed by My Father...

to me I can learn by all things, the bible is only one thing.

Lee

[sheila]

   Lee,

   yes the new creature in Christ is a new creation, and is

  sinless. However, He has made of the same 'lump"in our flesh

  two vessels...one the old man of sin..the vessel of dishonour

and the other the new man in Christ.[two men in a bed]

   If we say we have no sin, we are liars..Paul cried out'

  'who will deliver me from this body undergoing this death'?

  Thanks be, to Christ Jesus.

   Sin in our flesh is condemned.....

   Paul spoke of the law of Christ in his mind..that was in

agreement with the Lord..but that there was another law at

work in his flesh..the law of sin.and that the good which he

desired to do, he did not..for evil is present.Therefore, it was no

longer 'I' that sinned..but the sin dwelling in my flesh. This is

what we are awaiting..that He shall do away with at the breath

of His coming[the man of lawlessness dwelling in our flesh]


   This is what we are pressing into..our hope of just this

deliverance from this body undrgoing this death.

  I know you have proablably had no idea what we are about

  you are new here. But we must continue on as we await Him

coming in His POWER AND GLORY.

  And we rejoice greatly that all men are saved by His power

  but we feel it inconvienient to leave off following Him at this

time. And while we know that it matters not that some children

return home as prodigals..that they are dearly loved and given

a feast and the best robe..it is still in our heart to cling to

Him , to the end

At the very darkest hour of lawlessness evidenced in this

world, He has proclaimed His total victory.  We await being

'changed' in a twinkling of an eye

   we must remain in Him, for we have no life in ourselves.

  His spirit is our life...it is His spirit that proclaimed to us the

salvation of all mankind.

  You have beleived this message in your heart, I encourage you

to draw close to your heavenly Father, pray to Him, enjoy

relationship with Him, He loves you, HE HIMSELF WILL TEACH

  AND GUIDE YOU....and lead you in the way.

  when we are  young..we can easily be blown about by different

doctrines[ even when we are old]

   Now, you know He loves you, will save you. Begin your own

personal relationship with your Father.

  We are not rejecting you or Barry...but the erronous 'message'

  you are bringing

   SPIRIT AND TRUTH   for there are many lying doctrines

   Sometimes when we follow Christ we are called to make

ourselves of no reputation, just like He did, He cared not that

the religious leaders and teachers accused Him of Blasphemy

or that He was despised. Indeed they crucified Him..and He

took on the very appearance of sin...like some of us have

become in your eyes the 'accursed' of God. The blasphemy

they charged Him with was saying He was the Son of God.


   Now, we are awaiting the REVEALING of the SONS OF GOD

  with Glory and power Romans 8;19-22


  Psalms 87;5 Indeed of Zion it will be said ' This one and that

    one were born in her" AND THE MOST HIGH HIMSELF WILL

   ESTABLISH HER.   All of us must be born of her 'again'

[sparrow]

   
  We are not rejecting you or Barry...but the erronous 'message'

  you are bringing

   

Just for the record, I am not part of this "we".

One thing about this thread, a lot of stuff is being brought out into the light.

I thank God for Barry's contributions to this board.

Peace.

[peacemaker]

We are not rejecting you or Barry but the erroneous 'message' you are bringing

Just for the record, I am not part of this "we".

The term "we" spiritually speaking is of the mind (ego) which maintains an illusion of separation.

[Zeek]

The term "we" spiritually speaking is of the mind (ego) which maintains an illusion of separation.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Zeek]

   
  We are not rejecting you or Barry...but the erronous 'message'

  you are bringing

   

Just for the record, I am not part of this "we".

One thing about this thread, a lot of stuff is being brought out into the light.

I thank God for Barry's contributions to this board.

Peace.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[sparrow]

Another thing I would like to say is there is no-one that has all truth. I may not agree with all that Barry has said or will say in the future (if he decides to stick around) but I certainly appreciate his spirit.  Some of the things he has said has been truly beautiful. If there are some things that he may be wrong about, then those things will be refined off of him. Just like the REST OF US. There are those here who follow really strange teachings.... and have we accused YOU of not being a brother? My God! We are all in this together. If you don't agree with someone's thoughts, then so be it. But there is NO NEED to try to cast a shadow on a brother just because you don't believe what he believes.

We ALL see through the glass darkly.
and yes, we ARE all in this together.
We're here to lift each other up, not tear each other down.
Treat no-one like an "outsider". Treat no-one like he is "not a brother".
Treat everyone like brothers and sisters.

Well, that's just my take on it.

[peacemaker]

Another thing I would like to say is there is no-one that has all truth. I may not agree with all that Barry has said or will say in the future (if he decides to stick around) but I certainly appreciate his spirit.  Some of the things he has said has been truly beautiful. If there are some things that he may be wrong about, then those things will be refined off of him. Just like the REST OF US. There are those here who follow really strange teachings .... and have we accused YOU of not being a brother? My God! We are all in this together. If you don't agree with someone's thoughts, then so be it. But there is NO NEED to try to cast a shadow on a brother just because you don't believe what he believes.

We ALL see through the glass darkly.
and yes, we ARE all in this together.
We're here to lift each other up, not tear each other down.
Treat no-one like an "outsider". Treat no-one like he is "not a brother".
Treat everyone like brothers and sisters.

Well, that's just my take on it.

Sparrow, you exhibit love for ALL regardless of who they are, were, or will be; a true sister.
For love does not measure anything, it just gives to others.

"There are absolutes, but it's not what people think." -- peacemaker

[sparrow]

Another thing I would like to say is there is no-one that has all truth. I may not agree with all that Barry has said or will say in the future (if he decides to stick around) but I certainly appreciate his spirit.  Some of the things he has said has been truly beautiful. If there are some things that he may be wrong about, then those things will be refined off of him. Just like the REST OF US. There are those here who follow really strange teachings .... and have we accused YOU of not being a brother? My God! We are all in this together. If you don't agree with someone's thoughts, then so be it. But there is NO NEED to try to cast a shadow on a brother just because you don't believe what he believes.

We ALL see through the glass darkly.
and yes, we ARE all in this together.
We're here to lift each other up, not tear each other down.
Treat no-one like an "outsider". Treat no-one like he is "not a brother".
Treat everyone like brothers and sisters.

Well, that's just my take on it.

Sparrow, you exhibit love for ALL regardless of who they are, were, or will be; a true sister.
For love does not measure anything, it just gives to others.

"There are absolutes, but it's not what people think." -- peacemaker

Thank you for the love. I must say it's quite disheartening to have a brother or sister accuse you of the opposite.

[HartleyDamboiseII]

There is NO DISRESPECT IMPLYED HERE................................[/color]

   Lee,

   yes the new creature in Christ is a new creation, and is

  sinless.( Oh,is it)????? However, He has made of the same 'lump"in our flesh

  two vessels...one the old man of sin..the vessel of dishonour

and the other the new man in Christ.[two men in a bed] (So there is sin IN Christ.????)

   If we say we have no sin, we are liars( NoT Paul's Gospel of Grace) and if you find Paul saying this, he will be refering to Israel not Gentiles.)..Paul cried out'

  'who will deliver me from this body undergoing this death'?

  Thanks be, to Christ Jesus. Si- Version, which is Kool.

   Sin in our flesh is condemned.....(Oh really, when???)

   Paul spoke of the law of Christ in his mind..that was in

agreement with the Lord..but that there was another law at

work in his flesh..the law of sin.and that the good which he

desired to do, he did not..for evil is present.Therefore, it was no

longer 'I' that sinned..but the sin dwelling in my flesh.(Paul said, Yes. with his issues) This is

what we are awaiting..that He shall do away with at the breath

of His coming[the man of lawlessness dwelling in our flesh] (So when do humans become sinless?????) I guess your going to repeat His Coming???
  Well the rapture, is over for me, I didn't miss the boat, His presents is here to stay and where He dwells there IS NO SIN.[/color]

   This is what we are pressing into..our hope of just this

deliverance from this body undergoing this death.( Done for me !) I am very sorry to hear that God's Anointed hasn't anointed you.

  I know you have proablably had no idea what we are about

  you are new here. I have been a studyer of J.P.Eby, Concordant Publishing Concern, Gary Sigler , Tentmaker Ministries, and many others for about 7 years, And I can mentally recall most of what I have studied, and I've spent at times Weeks in study with no breakes, ( In Prison you have a lot of time to contemplate) But we must continue on as we await Him. (again, I am truly sorry your still awaiting Him)

coming in His POWER AND GLORY. (Done for me.)

  And we rejoice greatly that all men are saved by His power

  but we feel it inconvienient to leave off following Him at this

time. And while we know that it matters not that some children

return home as prodigals..that they are dearly loved and given

a feast and the best robe..it is still in our heart to cling to

Him , to the end

At the very darkest hour of lawlessness evidenced in this

world, He has proclaimed His total victory.( And that victor IS/Was victorouis)  We await being

'changed' in a twinkling of an eye (I was too, not any more )

   we must remain in Him, for we have no life in ourselves. ( IF 'we' did, it would be Carnal)

  His spirit is our life( IF we are awaken to the knowledge of HIM)...it is His spirit that proclaimed to us the

salvation of all mankind.

  You have beleived this message in your heart, I encourage you

to draw close to your heavenly Father, pray to Him, enjoy

relationship with Him, He loves you, HE HIMSELF WILL TEACH

  AND GUIDE YOU....and lead you in the way. ( And this is where I am claiming that all my knowledge is from)

  when we are  young..we can easily be blown about by different

doctrines[ even when we are old] Ya, I know because the JW, Catholic's, Mormon, Baptist etc... Have all tried to fix me. NOT happening...

   Now, you know He loves you, will save you. Begin your own

personal relationship with your Father.

  We are not rejecting you or Barry...but the erronous 'message'

  you are bringing ( A message your not aquainted with yet, He will show you a sin free life in this earth life hopefully some time.)

   SPIRIT AND TRUTH   for there are many lying doctrines

   Sometimes when we follow Christ we are called to make

ourselves of no reputation, just like He did, He cared not that

the religious leaders and teachers accused Him of Blasphemy

or that He was despised. Indeed they crucified Him..and He

took on the very appearance of sin...like some of us have

become in your eyes the 'accursed' of God. The blasphemy

they charged Him with was saying He was the Son of God. (Well, I am a Son of God TOO.) Will they hang me too????


   Now, we are awaiting the REVEALING of the SONS OF GOD

  with Glory and power Romans 8;19-22   :rocker  the wait is over, Hi my name is Lee Damboise II meet one.


  Psalms 87;5 Indeed of Zion it will be said ' This one and that

    one were born in her" AND THE MOST HIGH HIMSELF WILL

   ESTABLISH HER.   All of us must be born of her 'again'

or Spirit Birth, oops that is now for me.



Now I truly ask that none of the people in this form be offended, because MY understanding is not of this world, IT IS OF God. And it is as "I see and hear it from the Father."

Lee Damboise II

[Doug]

Another thing I would like to say is there is no-one that has all truth.

Matthew 10:29-30
Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.

Is there some truth that God is missing?

Someone said: "Never commit yourself to a negative, for that supposes that you are in possession of all the facts."

Doug

[Cardinal]

  Lee,

  yes the new creature in Christ is a new creation, and is

 sinless. However, He has made of the same 'lump"in our flesh

 two vessels...one the old man of sin..the vessel of dishonour

and the other the new man in Christ.[two men in a bed]

  If we say we have no sin, we are liars..Paul cried out'

 'who will deliver me from this body undergoing this death'?

 Thanks be, to Christ Jesus.

  Sin in our flesh is condemned.....

  Paul spoke of the law of Christ in his mind..that was in

agreement with the Lord..but that there was another law at

work in his flesh..the law of sin.and that the good which he

desired to do, he did not..for evil is present.Therefore, it was no

longer 'I' that sinned..but the sin dwelling in my flesh. This is

what we are awaiting..that He shall do away with at the breath

of His coming[the man of lawlessness dwelling in our flesh]


  This is what we are pressing into..our hope of just this

deliverance from this body undergoing this death.

 I know you have probably had no idea what we are about

 you are new here. But we must continue on as we await Him

coming in His POWER AND GLORY.

 And we rejoice greatly that all men are saved by His power

 but we feel it inconvienient to leave off following Him at this

time. And while we know that it matters not that some children

return home as prodigals..that they are dearly loved and given

a feast and the best robe..it is still in our heart to cling to

Him , to the end

At the very darkest hour of lawlessness evidenced in this

world, He has proclaimed His total victory.  We await being

'changed' in a twinkling of an eye

  we must remain in Him, for we have no life in ourselves.

 His spirit is our life...it is His spirit that proclaimed to us the

salvation of all mankind.

 You have believed this message in your heart, I encourage you

to draw close to your heavenly Father, pray to Him, enjoy

relationship with Him, He loves you, HE HIMSELF WILL TEACH

 AND GUIDE YOU....and lead you in the way.

 when we are  young..we can easily be blown about by different

doctrines[ even when we are old]

  Now, you know He loves you, will save you. Begin your own

personal relationship with your Father.

 We are not rejecting you or Barry...but the erroneous 'message'

 you are bringing

  SPIRIT AND TRUTH   for there are many lying doctrines

  Sometimes when we follow Christ we are called to make

ourselves of no reputation, just like He did, He cared not that

the religious leaders and teachers accused Him of Blasphemy

or that He was despised. Indeed they crucified Him..and He

took on the very appearance of sin...like some of us have

become in your eyes the 'accursed' of God. The blasphemy

they charged Him with was saying He was the Son of God.


  Now, we are awaiting the REVEALING of the SONS OF GOD

 with Glory and power Romans 8;19-22


 Psalms 87;5 Indeed of Zion it will be said ' This one and that

   one were born in her" AND THE MOST HIGH HIMSELF WILL

  ESTABLISH HER.   All of us must be born of her 'again'

:cloud9: Amen, Sheila..... :thumbsup:

[Doug]

...
   If we say we have no sin, we are liars

( NoT Paul's Gospel of Grace) and if you find Paul saying this, he will be refering to Israel not Gentiles.)

Paul's teaching of the grace of God which comes through Christ was misunderstood, even in his day. Some even twisted his doctrine to the extent that they went about saying that Paul taught, "Let us do evil, that good may come," which Paul said was slander.

Romans 3:8
And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

Those strong words are from the apostle Paul, who taught the ultimate reconciliation all things to Christ! So Paul wanted people to understand what he meant, and not misunderstand what grace is. The apostle Peter also reported that some misunderstood the teachings of Paul, in the days of the apostles. He wrote:

2 Peter 3:15-17
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

That happened to some even when the apostles were living. Peter said it was those who were unstable (i.e., lacking wisdom, and the Spirit of Christ) who wrested Paul's words; and in our time, these kinds of errors have proliferated, as Paul said they would:

2 Timothy 3:13
But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

It is a great error to claim that the way of salvation is different for Gentiles and Jews, and Paul tried to make it abundantly clear there is but one gospel, one faith, and one body of the saints. He repeatedly said there was no difference between the Jew and Gentile in Christ. For example:

Romans 10:12
For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
   
Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
   
Colossians 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Anyone reading the above statements by Paul, who still insists the Gospel for Jewish believers is somehow different from the one Paul taught to Gentile saints, must be spiritually blind. And yet, many do teach that very thing, notably the ultradispensationalists, some of whom, IMO, may have been influenced by German critical scholars of the nineteenth century, who were unbelievers.
   
Paul taught that Gentile saints had been "made nigh" to the commonwealth of Israel, by the blood of Christ.

Ephesians 2:11-13
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Paul even said, referring to both Jewish and Gentile believers, they had all been circumcised "with the circumcision made without hands." He was referring not to circumcision of the flesh, but their being included in the holy covenant that circumcision represented, and the promises made to Abraham. This was not the law of Moses, which came long after the covenant, but the promise of blessing which came through Christ.

Colossians 2:10-11
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Circumcision is a symbol of God's eternal covenant. It is no longer necessary for male believers to be circumcised in the flesh like Jews, but the covenant is the new covenant, and the sign of it is spiritual circumcision, "made without hands," which therefore still applies to God's saints. This is the reason Paul called the church "the circumcision."

Philippians 3:3
For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

And Paul said the "seal" of Christ's saints is departing from evil.

2 Timothy 2:19
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Doug

[sparrow]

Another thing I would like to say is there is no-one that has all truth.

Matthew 10:29-30
Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.

Is there some truth that God is missing?


Doug

As if I would REALLY say that GOD DOES NOT KNOW ALL TRUTH.

Please, brother.
You know very well I am talking about mankind.
Not God.

[Cardinal]

Paul's teaching of the grace of God which comes through Christ was misunderstood, even in his day. Some even twisted his doctrine to the extent that they went about saying that Paul taught, "Let us do evil, that good may come," which Paul said was slander.

Romans 3:8
And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.

Those strong words are from the apostle Paul, who taught the ultimate reconciliation all things to Christ! So Paul wanted people to understand what he meant, and not misunderstand what grace is. The apostle Peter also reported that some misunderstood the teachings of Paul, in the days of the apostles. He wrote:

2 Peter 3:15-17
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

That happened to some even when the apostles were living. Peter said it was those who were unstable (i.e., lacking wisdom, and the Spirit of Christ) who wrested Paul's words; and in our time, these kinds of errors have proliferated, as Paul said they would:

2 Timothy 3:13
But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

It is a great error to claim that the way of salvation is different for Gentiles and Jews, and Paul tried to make it abundantly clear there is but one gospel, one faith, and one body of the saints. He repeatedly said there was no difference between the Jew and Gentile in Christ. For example:

Romans 10:12
For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
   
Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
   
Colossians 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Anyone reading the above statements by Paul, who still insists the Gospel for Jewish believers is somehow different from the one Paul taught to Gentile saints, must be spiritually blind. And yet, many do teach that very thing, notably the ultradispensationalists, some of whom, IMO, may have been influenced by German critical scholars of the nineteenth century, who were unbelievers.
   
Paul taught that Gentile saints had been "made nigh" to the commonwealth of Israel, by the blood of Christ.

Ephesians 2:11-13
11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Paul even said, referring to both Jewish and Gentile believers, they had all been circumcised "with the circumcision made without hands." He was referring not to circumcision of the flesh, but their being included in the holy covenant that circumcision represented, and the promises made to Abraham. This was not the law of Moses, which came long after the covenant, but the promise of blessing which came through Christ.

Colossians 2:10-11
10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Circumcision is a symbol of God's eternal covenant. It is no longer necessary for male believers to be circumcised in the flesh like Jews, but the covenant is the new covenant, and the sign of it is spiritual circumcision, "made without hands," which therefore still applies to God's saints. This is the reason Paul called the church "the circumcision."

Philippians 3:3
For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

And Paul said the "seal" of Christ's saints is departing from evil.

2 Timothy 2:19
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Doug

:cloud9: Amen.....plain as the nose on your face.......Blessings....

[HartleyDamboiseII]

I am really kind of getting a kick out of the lack of understanding I see in "some" posts,

• Do human kind ever get sin free in this life while Christ Lives in YOU??
• Are YOU reconciled in this life or the next, i.e. Even being Spiritually Reborn IN Christ while in this terrestriel form.

I find it strange that %99.9 % of UR's believe like the "Churches" believe, that Jesus is a failure and did not kill death, bring in immortality to all mankind.         How strange.

Lee
[/list]

[sheila]

   three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me.

   But HE SAID  ' MY GRACE IS SUFFICIENT FOR THEE

    FOR MY POWER IS MADE PERFECT IN WEAKNESS   

   Therefore, I will boast all the more gladly in my weakness.

   so that Christ's power may rest on me. That is why, for Christ sake, I DELIGHT in weakness..in INSULTS in hardships

in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I AM weak..then

  I AM STRONG!!! :HeartThrob:

   p.s.  not yelling, caps for convenience and emphasis

[reFORMer]

Go ahead!  What you hear whispered in the ear, Shout if from the houstops!