This verse is the only time we find "spiritual body" in the Word of God. (1 Cor.15:44) And we find that it is single, not plural as bodies. Still I would venture to say that most all ministers talk about man having or will have spiritual bodies in the hearafter or when we die.
There is also much talk of "spiritual beings" definition of being a : the quality or state of having existence b (1) : something conceivable as existing (2) : something that actually exists.... Again there is no "spiritual being(s)" in the Bible, or even the word "being" used in the sense of (2) : something that actually exists
1Co 15:44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body; there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body;
BODY G4983 sōma the body (as a sound whole) from G4982 sōzō From a primary word σῶς sōs̄ (contraction for the obsolete σάος saos, "safe"); to save, that is, deliver or protect (literally or figuratively): - heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.
This tells me that a body is sound..[.sound].. from dictionary (a : free from injury or disease b : free from flaw, defect, or decay) examples.....a building of sound construction ........The bridge is structurally sound.
I had accepted the teaching that we will have spiritual bodies at the resurrection. Also I have always heard the phrase "spiritually dead" and "spiritually alive"
as well as "alive in the spirit," and again I cannot find that teaching in those words in the Word of God. I reason that if there were "spiritual bodies" "spiritually dead" "spiritually alive" "die spiritually" that Paul would have taken the time to inform us of these sensations or phases, or changes. I do understand how we(man) and think that way, but Paul was pretty much first hand in the Good News teaching, he certainly knew of those words, I believe that Paul could have put them together to explain to the hears. He did not.
The verse in ICor.15:44 reads that mankind is sown(or began) a natural(sensitive that is, animate)
it is raised(aroused or awaken from sleep) spiritual(non-carnal) and we know from 1Co 15:45 so also it hath been written, `The first man Adam became a living creature,' the last Adam is for a life-giving spirit, .....this verse tells me that when the natural body(first adam) will be raised a spiritual body(second adam.)
This all makes me reason and except that we do not recieve spiritual bodies when we die or when resurrected, that there is no such thing as spiritually dead, except in christian religion teaching. This is what my Bible reads,
Eph 4:4 one body and one Spirit, according as also ye were called in one hope of your calling;
2Ti 2:11 Faithful is the saying: For if we died with him, we shall also live with him:
I am open for instruction and reproof.
Sorry. I don't follow your reasoning. :dontknow:
And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we
shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.
--1 Cor 15:49
Quote from: Molly on April 29, 2011, 07:07:02 AM
Sorry. I don't follow your reasoning. :dontknow:
And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we
shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.
--1 Cor 15:49
Yes you have that correct. I reason that religion as a whole, whatever denomination, has not understood that the "man of dust" as you say is "all" men, this is not an individual, but many members as Romans 12 and I Cor. 12 explain. Paul taught that
1Co 15:22 for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive,
Paul as well as Jesus spoke of ONE. Joh 10:30 I and the Father are one.' And again, Eph 4:4 one body and one Spirit...."
I have come to believe, reason, and understand that religion has disected, for what ever reason, the teachings of Jesus, the Apostles, and Paul to suit the earthy mind. And even we who seek the deeper things as the Lord leads, hold to this earthy natural thinking.....which births what we voice and concieve to be something I fear is nothing more that religion. Also it is seminary theologians who have have no idea of what that speak, or consider for they think carnal.
Aint God good! And Im goin to bed, and Glory, God is still good! :grin:
QuoteAlso I have always heard the phrase "spiritually dead" and "spiritually alive"
as well as "alive in the spirit," and again I cannot find that teaching in those words in the Word of God
:2c:
One can use DEATH literally or figuratively- Do dead people really Bury DEAD people-- how is that so--? :dontknow:
what of the Prodical son
Luk 15:21 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son.
Luk 15:22 But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
Luk 15:23 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
Luk 15:24 For this
my son was dead, and is
alive again; he was lost,
and is found. And they began to be merry.
What of Christ HIMSELF--"I am the Resurrection and THE LIFE---- do you belive youve recieved HIM in YOU-? for mine we move from DEATH- to be carnally minded is DEATH, UNTO LIFE in HIM--- But I havent Literally died to be resurrected BY HIM---
Phl 3:9
And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law,
but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: Phl 3:10
That I may know him, and the
power of his resurrection, and the
fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; TO KNOW HIM is LIFE ETERNAL?how can dead people believe in ANYTHING- for some say the
DEAD know nothing[/b
Jhn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Jhn 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
John makes this simple enough to understand-- :HeartThrob:
(Joh 14:6).To me if I'm living an sinful carnal life style then I'm spiritually dead without Christ. But if sin no longer has dominion over me then I'm spiritually alive in and through Christ, because Christ is "the way, the truth, and the life"
Blessings :icon_flower:
As was the man
of dust , so also are those who are made of dust ; and
as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are
heavenly.
1 CORINTHIANS 15:47
Quote from: Molly on April 29, 2011, 04:29:38 PM
As was the man
of dust , so also are those who are made of dust ; and
as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are
heavenly.
1 CORINTHIANS 15:47
one FLESH the other SPIRIT for OUR life is HID in HIM who is SPIRIT :icon_flower:
Quote from: Taffy on April 29, 2011, 04:32:50 PM
Quote from: Molly on April 29, 2011, 04:29:38 PM
As was the man
of dust , so also are those who are made of dust ; and
as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are
heavenly.
1 CORINTHIANS 15:47
one FLESH the other SPIRIT for OUR life is HID in HIM who is SPIRIT :icon_flower:
We who are as is the heavenly man are not made of dust.
This is why the dust eater has nothing in us. There's nothing for him to eat.
"The Prince Of This World Cometh: And He Hath Nothing In Me"John 14:30
So . . . upon reading the original post . . . if there is no spiritual anything . . .what are you suggesting? We're born, we live . . .we die . . .move on. Is there any hope for us then?
For me, just because you're not finding a literal reference in your Bible, does not mean the truth still isn't real. Faith doesn't come by reading . . .but by hearing.
he that hath an ear . . . spiritual hearing . . .inward hearing . . .not something that can be filtered through the limited understanding of the minds of men.
The war is not spirit against flesh. It's spirit against spirit.
Therefore, the carnal mind, being the flesh mind, is not even a player in the game.
It is dead. It cannot vibrate against principalities, powers, heavenly rulers of the darkness of this age. It cannot vibrate against spiritual wickedness in high places. It can only be used by such, and all its actions lead to death.
12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
--Rom 8
Quote from: micah7:9 on April 29, 2011, 07:43:29 AM
Quote from: Molly on April 29, 2011, 07:07:02 AM
Sorry. I don't follow your reasoning. :dontknow:
And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we
shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.
--1 Cor 15:49
Yes you have that correct. I reason that religion as a whole, whatever denomination, has not understood that the "man of dust" as you say is "all" men, this is not an individual, but many members as Romans 12 and I Cor. 12 explain. Paul taught that
1Co 15:22 for even as in Adam all die, so also in the Christ all shall be made alive,
Paul as well as Jesus spoke of ONE. Joh 10:30 I and the Father are one.' And again, Eph 4:4 one body and one Spirit...."
I have come to believe, reason, and understand that religion has disected, for what ever reason, the teachings of Jesus, the Apostles, and Paul to suit the earthy mind. And even we who seek the deeper things as the Lord leads, hold to this earthy natural thinking.....which births what we voice and concieve to be something I fear is nothing more that religion. Also it is seminary theologians who have have no idea of what that speak, or consider for they think carnal.
If you are inclined to go that way, then that is your choice. However to say that others who do believe in a heavenly body are carnal, is short sighted and judgmental.
Quote from: Molly on April 29, 2011, 07:49:21 PM
The war is not spirit against flesh. It's spirit against spirit.
Therefore, the carnal mind, being the flesh mind, is not even a player in the game.
It is dead. It cannot vibrate against principalities, powers, heavenly rulers of the darkness of this age. It cannot vibrate against spiritual wickedness in high places. It can only be used by such, and all its actions lead to death.
12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
--Rom 8
A Spirit is what Gives LIFE Molly - so when you have a THOUGHT , if you BIRTH it you give it LIFE-- that exists within the carnal Mind too - Blessings :icon_flower: MAYBE thats why some see this serpent as a spirit-- :dontknow: :2c:
No. Flesh cannot give life, it can only give death, it can only destroy.
The carnal mind is the flesh mind. What is born of flesh is flesh.
Only Spirit can give life. Spirit can also kill and destroy.
But we are like a simple instrument with an on/off switch.
When off, we are dead.
When on, we are Christ.
Quote from: Taffy on April 29, 2011, 08:07:29 PM
Quote from: Molly on April 29, 2011, 07:49:21 PM
The war is not spirit against flesh. It's spirit against spirit.
Therefore, the carnal mind, being the flesh mind, is not even a player in the game.
It is dead. It cannot vibrate against principalities, powers, heavenly rulers of the darkness of this age. It cannot vibrate against spiritual wickedness in high places. It can only be used by such, and all its actions lead to death.
12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
--Rom 8
A Spirit is what Gives LIFE Molly - so when you have a THOUGHT , if you BIRTH it you give it LIFE-- that exists within the carnal Mind too - Blessings :icon_flower: MAYBE thats why some see this serpent as a spirit-- :dontknow: :2c:
...and some of those thoughts become GIANTS! in the land.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on April 29, 2011, 08:18:50 PM
Quote from: Taffy on April 29, 2011, 08:07:29 PM
Quote from: Molly on April 29, 2011, 07:49:21 PM
The war is not spirit against flesh. It's spirit against spirit.
Therefore, the carnal mind, being the flesh mind, is not even a player in the game.
It is dead. It cannot vibrate against principalities, powers, heavenly rulers of the darkness of this age. It cannot vibrate against spiritual wickedness in high places. It can only be used by such, and all its actions lead to death.
12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
--Rom 8
A Spirit is what Gives LIFE Molly - so when you have a THOUGHT , if you BIRTH it you give it LIFE-- that exists within the carnal Mind too - Blessings :icon_flower: MAYBE thats why some see this serpent as a spirit-- :dontknow: :2c:
...and some of those thoughts become GIANTS! in the land.
:thumbsup:
I'm glad you're feeling OK Taffy.
God reigns.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on April 29, 2011, 08:22:11 PM
I'm glad you're feeling OK Taffy.
God reigns.
TY Micah- AMEN HE DOES- :HeartThrob:
We all need our own personal "flood" now and again!
Quote from: Beloved Servant on April 29, 2011, 08:24:41 PM
We all need our own personal "flood" now and again!
I pray HIS rivers flow through US all BRO :icon_flower:
Quote from: Nathan on April 29, 2011, 05:51:12 PM
So . . . upon reading the original post . . . if there is no spiritual anything . . .what are you suggesting? We're born, we live . . .we die . . .move on. Is there any hope for us then?
For me, just because you're not finding a literal reference in your Bible, does not mean the truth still isn't real. Faith doesn't come by reading . . .but by hearing.
he that hath an ear . . . spiritual hearing . . .inward hearing . . .not something that can be filtered through the limited understanding of the minds of men.
My thought is why didnt Paul teach about "spiritual BODIES, spiritual DEATH, spiritually ALIVE," he certainly could have put those words together for people to understand. Ive heard them all my llife. I am not trying to say I dont believe in spiritual things, I do, but should it be a truth that when the Lord has brought all that He is going to bring to His beginning and end that we will have spiritual "bodies" why didnt SOMEBODY say it? Paul speaks only of a "natural BODY" and a "spiritual BODY" not more than one.
Notice that the River comes from the belly and not the head!
Quote from: Micah...but should it be a truth that when the Lord has brought all that He is going to bring to His beginning and end that we will have spiritual "bodies" why did SOMEBODY say it? Paul speaks only of a "natural BODY" and a "spiritual BODY" not more than one.
Are you saying that we are all part of either a natural body or a spiritual body? How does that work? There is only one body of which we all are a part?
So we each don't individually have a natural body or a spiritual body?
Quote from: Molly on April 29, 2011, 08:31:00 PM
Quote from: Micah...but should it be a truth that when the Lord has brought all that He is going to bring to His beginning and end that we will have spiritual "bodies" why did SOMEBODY say it? Paul speaks only of a "natural BODY" and a "spiritual BODY" not more than one.
Are you saying that we are all part of either a natural body or a spiritual body? How does that work? There is only one body of which we all are a part?
So we each don't individually have a natural body or a spiritual body?
1Co 15:45 So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
How many Adams?
Rom 5:12 Therefore, as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin; and so death passed unto all men, for that all sinned: -
Quote from: micah7:9 on April 29, 2011, 08:36:23 PM
Quote from: Molly on April 29, 2011, 08:31:00 PM
Quote from: Micah...but should it be a truth that when the Lord has brought all that He is going to bring to His beginning and end that we will have spiritual "bodies" why did SOMEBODY say it? Paul speaks only of a "natural BODY" and a "spiritual BODY" not more than one.
Are you saying that we are all part of either a natural body or a spiritual body? How does that work? There is only one body of which we all are a part?
So we each don't individually have a natural body or a spiritual body?
1Co 15:45 So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
How many Adams?
Rom 5:12 Therefore, as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin; and so death passed unto all men, for that all sinned: -
Yes, there are only two men.
So are you saying we either have the body of the one or the other?
Yes.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on April 29, 2011, 08:28:05 PM
Notice that the River comes from the belly and not the head!
:icon_flower:
Insight?
Quote from: micah7:9 on April 29, 2011, 09:04:12 PM
Insight?
:icon_flower:
IMnever quite sure whos speaking to who -lol :icon_flower:
a Have mercy 2603 upon me, O LORD 3068, for I am in trouble 6887: mine eye 5869 is consumed 6244 with grief 3708, [yea], my soul 5315 and my belly 990.
Psa 44:25 For our soul 5315 is bowed down 7743 to the dust 6083: our belly 990 cleaveth 1692 unto the earth 776.
Pro 13:25 The righteous 6662 eateth 398 to the satisfying 7648 of his soul 5315: but the belly 990 of the wicked 7563 shall want 2637.
I must add also that is much talke in christian circles of "glorified bodies" yet the Bible is silent on this as well.
I am not attempting to say that I do not believe in some of terms and issuses I bring up, its just that when Im studying and I use the concordance and esword and find that some phrases that are written and taught about I am unable to find them. So I just ponder and wonder if these phrases that seem so utterly simple to us now, WHY were that not seen to be useful to the Apostles?
Quote from: Molly on April 29, 2011, 07:49:21 PM
The war is not spirit against flesh. It's spirit against spirit.
Therefore, the carnal mind, being the flesh mind, is not even a player in the game.
It is dead. It cannot vibrate against principalities, powers, heavenly rulers of the darkness of this age. It cannot vibrate against spiritual wickedness in high places. It can only be used by such, and all its actions lead to death.
12Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
--Rom 8
Binding and Loosing?
if the BEAST is dead with in us ALL then surely some wouldnt be given over to the BEASTLY mind [ SATAN] -? :icon_flower:
If the beast was dead within us all then God would be all in all.
"if the BEAST is dead......."
(WNT) This we know--that our old self was nailed to the cross with Him, in order that our sinful nature might be deprived of its power, so that we should no longer be the slaves of sin;
The old man is dead.
Me thinks again a thread has been hijacked, alas :sigh:
Quote from: micah7:9 on April 29, 2011, 10:33:44 PM
"if the BEAST is dead......."
(WNT) This we know--that our old self was nailed to the cross with Him, in order that our sinful nature might be deprived of its power, so that we should no longer be the slaves of sin;
The old man is dead.
if the BEAST is dead with in us ALL then
surely some wouldnt be given over to the BEASTLY mind [ SATAN]
Quote from: Beloved Servant on April 29, 2011, 10:32:20 PM
If the beast was dead within us all then God would be all in all.
:icon_flower:
Quote from: micah7:9 on April 29, 2011, 10:33:44 PM
"if the BEAST is dead......."
(WNT) This we know--that our old self was nailed to the cross with Him, in order that our sinful nature might be deprived of its power, so that we should no longer be the slaves of sin;
The old man is dead.
Perhaps the old man is still hanging on the cross.
Quote from: Taffy on April 29, 2011, 10:35:51 PM
Quote from: micah7:9 on April 29, 2011, 10:33:44 PM
"if the BEAST is dead......."
(WNT) This we know--that our old self was nailed to the cross with Him, in order that our sinful nature might be deprived of its power, so that we should no longer be the slaves of sin;
The old man is dead.
if the BEAST is dead with in us ALL then surely some wouldnt be given over to the BEASTLY mind [ SATAN]
You said "all" not I nor Paul.
Quote from: micah7:9 on April 29, 2011, 10:38:17 PM
Quote from: Taffy on April 29, 2011, 10:35:51 PM
Quote from: micah7:9 on April 29, 2011, 10:33:44 PM
"if the BEAST is dead......."
(WNT) This we know--that our old self was nailed to the cross with Him, in order that our sinful nature might be deprived of its power, so that we should no longer be the slaves of sin;
The old man is dead.
if the BEAST is dead with in us ALL then surely some wouldnt be given over to the BEASTLY mind [ SATAN]
You said "all" not I nor Paul.
:2c:
The beast is In ALL Bro-- Thou we be in HIM where sin abounds Grace abounds even MORe -Grace TEACHES and can Be painful when we resist with the carnal mind---hence why some-[ by ex] were handed over to their BEASTLY carnal Mind
GOD Is Not Mocked and we do reap what we sow---if we are in The Body or not --- :2c:
Okay the old man is not dead.
Quote from: micah7:9 on April 29, 2011, 11:24:02 PM
Okay the old man is not dead.
There was A curse given to paul----a Curse is a SIN--- HE was Being Plagued by that which went on IN HIS MIND----meant to HUmble HIM as HE too was a MAN like each and every other Bro----?
I believe the carnal Mind is dead , no longer having Power over us-- UNLESS we Give it LIFE--- :2c:
Derailed again :sigh:
Cut some slack Here Micah as you too keep feeding it!
Okay!
Quote from: Nathan on Today at 09:51:12 AM
So . . . upon reading the original post . . . if there is no spiritual anything . . .what are you suggesting? We're born, we live . . .we die . . .move on. Is there any hope for us then?
For me, just because you're not finding a literal reference in your Bible, does not mean the truth still isn't real. Faith doesn't come by reading . . .but by hearing.
he that hath an ear . . . spiritual hearing . . .inward hearing . . .not something that can be filtered through the limited understanding of the minds of men.
My thought is why didnt Paul teach about "spiritual BODIES, spiritual DEATH, spiritually ALIVE," he certainly could have put those words together for people to understand. Ive heard them all my llife. I am not trying to say I dont believe in spiritual things, I do, but should it be a truth that when the Lord has brought all that He is going to bring to His beginning and end that we will have spiritual "bodies" why didnt SOMEBODY say it? Paul speaks only of a "natural BODY" and a "spiritual BODY" not more than one.
In my Father's house there are many resting-places. Were it otherwise, I would have told you; for I am going to make ready a place for you.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on April 29, 2011, 11:50:42 PM
In my Father's house there are many resting-places. Were it otherwise, I would have told you; for I am going to make ready a place for you.
I love that verse, still there is but ONE Fathers house, correct?
So does that mean that all the resting places will be occupied by spiritual bodies? And if so I ask again, how am I to understand Eph 4:4 one body and one Spirit?
Will the thinking of the many members of one body, each have different thoughts on how the one body works to do things?
And will the many members of the one body use their own mind or the mind of Christ?
Will there be conflicting veiws of what to do?
I am not, as I have said before, trying to trouble. These are questions.
Quote from: Molly on April 29, 2011, 08:15:46 PM
No. Flesh cannot give life, it can only give death, it can only destroy.
Did'nt your mother bring birth to you, bringing life to where there is no life?
I assume you think that Adam and all creation were created, with some kind of spiritual body, then sinned, which turned Adam and Eve into flesh and all animals as punishment or simply an end result of sin
So are you saying that animals before being turned into flesh, had a spiritual body?
From what I have gathered Adam and Eve were first spirit beings, birthed into a vessel of dust, to create a living soul. That soul is now living in this world of carnality, because sin entered. So it not a matter of flesh being evil, because flesh is simply organic living material, there is no evil in flesh unless one with a sinful carnal spirit decides, to do evil.. Otherwise I challenge you to please show me how flesh based actions are evil?. If you can show me one then we are all in deep trouble, because Jesus ate bread for breakfast, which is a flesh based activity, so that which makes him a sinner.
TT
The carnal mind is the flesh mind. What is born of flesh is flesh.
Only Spirit can give life. Spirit can also kill and destroy.
But we are like a simple instrument with an on/off switch.
When off, we are dead.
When on, we are Christ.
I'm more curious about how you would illustrate to us this belief of yours, Micah.
What does it "look like"?
And more importantly, what about individualism, the individual?
You will be for Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.
Quote from: Lefein on April 30, 2011, 12:34:14 AM
I'm more curious about how you would illustrate to us this belief of yours, Micah.
What does it "look like"?
And more importantly, what about individualism, the individual?
I have stated questions. What does what look like? What about individualism, the individual? Acts. 1:14 "one accord,"
G3661
homothumadon
Adverb from a compound of the base of G3674 and G2372; unanimously: - with one accord (mind).
What greater way is there to go when you are in Him? I
s not whatever we do or say the very same thing that HE would say or do?
Would the "individual(s)" mind chose a different path than Him? How many ways is there to understand ONE?
Unfortunately, it that is not really the answer I'd expected for what I asked.
Quote from: TTSo are you saying that animals before being turned into flesh, had a spiritual body?
Yes. I think that's probably right. The animals fell when Adam did. When they are restored, the lion will lie down with the lamb.
3 By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen has been made from things that are not visible.
--Heb 11
So the LORD God formed out of the ground each wild animal and each bird of the sky, and brought each to the man to see what he would call it. And whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name.
--Gen 2
It's curious to wonder if the animal kingdom represents the various and seemingly endless proclivities of man's own carnal nature.
Quote from: Lefein on April 30, 2011, 12:34:14 AM
I'm more curious about how you would illustrate to us this belief of yours, Micah.
What does it "look like"?
And more importantly, what about individualism, the individual?
I hope we believe the same. I have no idea as to an illustration. What does "what" look like?
Quote from: Beloved Servant on April 30, 2011, 05:04:14 AM
It's curious to wonder if the animal kingdom represents the various and seemingly endless proclivities of man's own carnal nature.
I dont "think" so, but I do consider that man(kind) has thought more of itself as man(kind) progressed, than man(kind) really is. Like important. I believe that man(kind) UNTIL the Lord begins a work in him, he only thinks of the natural things and how they can satisfy his self.
Romans 12:4-5; (Weymouth)
For just as there are in the one human body many parts, and these parts have not all the same function; so collectively we form one body in Christ, while individually we are linked to one another as its members.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on April 30, 2011, 05:04:14 AM
It's curious to wonder if the animal kingdom represents the various and seemingly endless proclivities of man's own carnal nature.
I doubt it since man is the only predator that kills its own species in great numbers.
Animals look good by comparison.
Tell that to a male black widow spider.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on April 30, 2011, 06:19:58 AM
Tell that to a male black widow spider.
Yet The Creator set it up that way.
Quote from: Lefein on April 30, 2011, 04:04:44 AM
Unfortunately, it that is not really the answer I'd expected for what I asked.
My thoughts are, there is the
literal (we each are individuals with all that entails [physical, emotional, spiritual])
and the
figurative (we are to function in unity, "as" one - living peaceably with each other as much as is possible).
I'm afraid we can get lost in either the symolism
or the literal, when IMO, it's not one - it's both.
For instance, when Jesus said He and the Father were "one", what did He mean?
Blessings. (hopefully that doesn't de-rail the thread, but is related enough to be pertinent).
I believe that He Jesus and The Father are ONE. I also believe that it is the doctrine that we aint supposed to talk about on this site is what has confused man in understanding that "I and the Father are one." I have to believe that is the way He desries it to be.
My best friend told me something about half way through my 66 years. He said, I dont recall the conversation, but he said flat out and simple, "You are your father." He didnt then and maybe not now go to any church. But since I have been studying the Word that quote has made me to understand, "I and my Father are one."
Yeah, you're right. My question could lead into battle ground territory. My mistake. My main point is, I believe there's literal (form) and figurative (function); and we can lose sight of either if we get too locked in on one or the other.
Anyway, blessings. :bigGrin:
I have this feeling that my queerys come forth as anti to what I believe and most certainly a great many on this forum believe as truth. I want to say I am not anti, I have questions about some of the basic teachings that we have come to accept as, "this is the way it is," and we build on that.
What do I respond or say to this......Ecc 3:18 I said in my heart:It is on account of the sons of humanity That the One, Elohim, seeks to manifest them And to show them that they themselves are beasts."
Ecc 3:19 For the destiny of the sons of humanity And the destiny of the beast, It is one destiny for them; As death is for this one, so is death for that one, And one spirit is for all; There is no advantage for the human over the beast, For the whole is vanity."
I believe we think more of what and who we are and lose the vision.
I am no one, but I know that God has moved on those who hear His call, those who languish is what is truth, treading water seeking land, and know that the truth that has brought us this far, know there is more. We all know of the Azuza street revival, the Latter Rain, the great spiritual energy that poured from from Canada, from Bro. Hawtin and Bro. Warnok and his teaching and opening our eyes to the Tabernacle teaching. I know that it made my heart swoon high, so high I did not have one desire to come back down.
I do not understand all of what is happening, I am just adamant that God is moving upward. We all talk so much about "spirit" and we get out our Youngs and Strongs to help us identify these things.
Rom 8:1 There is, then, now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit;
Rom 8:2 for the law of the Spirit of the life in Christ Jesus did set me free from the law of the sin and of the death;
Rom 8:3 for what the law was not able to do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, His own Son having sent in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, did condemn the sin in the flesh,
Rom 8:4 that the righteousness of the law may be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
There we have something. I truly believe that we, those who believe they are hearing what the Spirit is saying need to crawl back into that place of silence, where we seek HIM and TODAY consider just what this "spirit" is... "There is, then, now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit;
I think we believers have come to think spirit is of no real substance, that it has no matter, we think of ghosts and apparitions.
We think earthy. Okay Im ready for the pounce and pile on.
QuoteOkay Im ready for the pounce and pile on.
- :Peace: :duck:- :icon_flower:
Quote from: MicahWhat do I respond or say to this...
Try starting here--
25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
--John 11
Quote from: jabcat on April 30, 2011, 07:29:13 AM
Yeah, you're right. My question could lead into battle ground territory. My mistake. My main point is, I believe there's literal (form) and figurative (function); and we can lose sight of either if we get too locked in on one or the other.
Anyway, blessings. :bigGrin:
Jab- For us Figurative Folk we are Not throwing the Baby out the water---as even the figurative is Literal--- for mine Without semantics, its better understood The natural take as in HOW any other BOOK in the world is read... BUT the figurative Rising to another Plane--- which for mine when understood makes the natural understood , ity the natural veiw which causes Contention-- as the scrips read this way always seem to contradict each other--hence way men have there battle grounds----- :HeartThrob:
Quote from: Molly on April 29, 2011, 08:15:46 PM
No. Flesh cannot give life, it can only give death, it can only destroy.
The carnal mind is the flesh mind. What is born of flesh is flesh.
Only Spirit can give life. Spirit can also kill and destroy.
But we are like a simple instrument with an on/off switch.
When off, we are dead.
When on, we are Christ.
Molly - you miss the point-- of course one can GIVE life to the carnal mind in US--but yes it brings death not life, it will also bring rebuke and correction --- hence to be CARNAL MINDED is DEATH to be spiritually minded is Life and PEACE---
Quote from: Taffy on April 30, 2011, 02:34:06 PM
Quote from: Molly on April 29, 2011, 08:15:46 PM
No. Flesh cannot give life, it can only give death, it can only destroy.
The carnal mind is the flesh mind. What is born of flesh is flesh.
Only Spirit can give life. Spirit can also kill and destroy.
But we are like a simple instrument with an on/off switch.
When off, we are dead.
When on, we are Christ.
Molly - you miss the point-- of course one can GIVE life to the carnal mind in US--but yes it brings death not life, it will also bring rebuke and correction --- hence to be CARNAL MINDED is DEATH to be spiritually minded is Life and PEACE---
Life.Never.Brings.Death.
A dead thing cannot give life [except in Michael Jackson videos].
Two choices only--choose life.
This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live.
--Deut 30:19
Quote from: Molly on April 30, 2011, 03:20:50 PM
Quote from: Taffy on April 30, 2011, 02:34:06 PM
Quote from: Molly on April 29, 2011, 08:15:46 PM
No. Flesh cannot give life, it can only give death, it can only destroy.
The carnal mind is the flesh mind. What is born of flesh is flesh.
Only Spirit can give life. Spirit can also kill and destroy.
But we are like a simple instrument with an on/off switch.
When off, we are dead.
When on, we are Christ.
Molly - you miss the point-- of course one can GIVE life to the carnal mind in US--but yes it brings death not life, it will also bring rebuke and correction --- hence to be CARNAL MINDED is DEATH to be spiritually minded is Life and PEACE---
Life.Never.Brings.Death.
A dead thing cannot give life [except in Michael Jackson videos].
Two choices only--choose life.
This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live.
--Deut 30:19
- so eves mind NEVER gave LIFE to her THOUGHTwhich brought DEATH ------ seems some of the Faith too gave LIFE to their carnal mind which opposess , when they too were given over to their OWN minds for the destruction of it--- :dontknow:
Quote from: Taffyso eves mind NEVER gave LIFE to her THOUGHTwhich brought DEATH ------
No. How can death give life to something?
Eve was deceived. She chose death.
Quote from: Taffy on April 30, 2011, 02:27:52 PM
Quote from: jabcat on April 30, 2011, 07:29:13 AM
Yeah, you're right. My question could lead into battle ground territory. My mistake. My main point is, I believe there's literal (form) and figurative (function); and we can lose sight of either if we get too locked in on one or the other.
Anyway, blessings. :bigGrin:
Jab- For us Figurative Folk we are Not throwing the Baby out the water---as even the figurative is Literal--- for mine Without semantics, its better understood The natural take as in HOW any other BOOK in the world is read... BUT the figurative Rising to another Plane--- which for mine when understood makes the natural understood , ity the natural veiw which causes Contention-- as the scrips read this way always seem to contradict each other--hence way men have there battle grounds----- :HeartThrob:
I know you see the literal as well Taf. :Peace2:
Quote from: Molly on April 30, 2011, 04:45:51 PM
Quote from: Taffyso eves mind NEVER gave LIFE to her THOUGHTwhich brought DEATH ------
No. How can death give life to something?
Eve was deceived. She chose death.
you mean folk in the world WITH black and white Carnal Minds Dont BIRTH thoughts?00 we are are Talking Birthing THOUGHTS Molly---A man is man not just by The lord Breathing LIFE into HIM which carnal man Has too - a Man is defined by what he THINKS----the carnal mind thinks on the Natural Plain Not seing the SPIRITUAL reality-- again we are Back to PETERbeing Called Satan----and those the pharisees again a TYPE of carnal MIND which too couldnt SEE the LIFE that was--- there MIND being on EARTHY Natural things- ie works of the LAW- the NATURAL Temple :icon_flower:
Quote from: Taffy on April 30, 2011, 07:00:28 PM
Quote from: Molly on April 30, 2011, 04:45:51 PM
Quote from: Taffyso eves mind NEVER gave LIFE to her THOUGHTwhich brought DEATH ------
No. How can death give life to something?
Eve was deceived. She chose death.
you mean folk in the world WITH black and white Carnal Minds Dont BIRTH thoughts?00 we are are Talking Birthing THOUGHTS Molly---A man is man not just by The lord Breathing LIFE into HIM which carnal man Has too - a Man is defined by what he THINKS----the carnal mind thinks on the Natural Plain Not seing the SPIRITUAL reality-- again we are Back to PETERbeing Called Satan----and those the pharisees again a TYPE of carnal MIND which too couldnt SEE the LIFE that was--- there MIND being on EARTHY Natural things- ie works of the LAW- the NATURAL Temple :icon_flower:
Maybe you could give me an example of some thought a carnal mind has 'birthed' in the last 2000 years. That might make it easier for me to see what you are saying.
As far as I'm concerned, it's just the same ol' same ol'. Same lies, same theft, same murder, same betrayal, same power hungry insanity. I don't see anything new coming out of those carnal minds--just death. It's the reason why history repeats but doesn't rhyme...Satan is too lazy and uncreative to rhyme anything.
It's why there's nothing new under the sun.
Quote from: Molly on April 30, 2011, 07:22:25 PM
Quote from: Taffy on April 30, 2011, 07:00:28 PM
Quote from: Molly on April 30, 2011, 04:45:51 PM
Quote from: Taffyso eves mind NEVER gave LIFE to her THOUGHTwhich brought DEATH ------
No. How can death give life to something?
Eve was deceived. She chose death.
you mean folk in the world WITH black and white Carnal Minds Dont BIRTH thoughts?00 we are are Talking Birthing THOUGHTS Molly---A man is man not just by The lord Breathing LIFE into HIM which carnal man Has too - a Man is defined by what he THINKS----the carnal mind thinks on the Natural Plain Not seing the SPIRITUAL reality-- again we are Back to PETERbeing Called Satan----and those the pharisees again a TYPE of carnal MIND which too couldnt SEE the LIFE that was--- there MIND being on EARTHY Natural things- ie works of the LAW- the NATURAL Temple :icon_flower:
Maybe you could give me an example of some thought a carnal mind has 'birthed' in the last 2000 years. That might make it easier for me to see what you are saying.
As far as I'm concerned, it's just the same ol' same ol'. Same lies, same theft, same murder, same betrayal, same power hungry insanity. I don't see anything new coming out of those carnal minds--just death. It's the reason why history repeats but doesn't rhyme...Satan is too lazy and uncreative to rhyme anything.
It's why there's nothing new under the sun.
-the carnal Mind is enmity not being SUBJECT to the LAW of GOD- IS to BE BLINDED to HIS spiritual TRUTH MOLLY which is LIFE and Peace -
Jhn 8:43 Why do ye
not understand my speech? [even] because
ye cannot hear my word. Jhn 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him.
When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. they SPOKE after there Father the Serpent who birthed the EARTHYcarnal mind--- pertaining ONLY to seeing the NATURAL mOLLY which is DEATH---- like all carnality is seeks the Lust of the FLESH[ MIND] for fulfilment--- its ses only the OUTWARD being the Life and Reality which in IN truth the LIFE and reality IS WITHIN--
THATS what the carnaL mind does Like peter - when DWELLING on earthy THINGS they birth only THE THOUGHTS of the earthy sperent realm--- --its says the SERPENT was Cursed and it still is as are their MINDS remain ONLY Carnal-- all in the Process of self destruction--- --- what they Birth beiliving to BE life IS truly DEATH
"And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power" (Rev. 9:3).
Quote from: Taffy..they SPOKE after there Father the Serpent who birthed the EARTHYcarnal mind--- pertaining ONLY to seeing the NATURAL mOLLY which is DEATH----
The serpent didn't 'birth' anything. He degraded and corrupted what God had created. Only life can create.
The serpent is Death--a murderer from the beginning.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on April 30, 2011, 07:33:29 PM
"And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power" (Rev. 9:3).
those scorpions were of a Rebelious HOUSE-- gee MARY means their REBELLION- a symbol of the LAW and the carnal mind-
e 2:6 ΒΆ And thou, son of man, be not afraid of them, neither be afraid of their words, though briers and thorns [be] with thee, and thou dost dwell among scorpions: be not afraid of their words, nor be dismayed at their looks, though they [be] a rebellious house.
Eze 2:7 And thou shalt speak my words unto them, whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear: for they [are] most rebellious.
Eze 2:8 But thou, son of man, hear what I say unto thee; Be not thou rebellious like that rebellious house: open thy mouth, and eat that I give thee.
The visible, tangible, physical things (locusts) which come out of the smoke
represent the men, ministries, movements, organizations, governments, and activities
that are born/spawned by the thoughts, perceptions, ideas, interpretations, and opinions that come from the heart!
Quote from: Molly on April 30, 2011, 07:37:57 PM
Quote from: Taffy..they SPOKE after there Father the Serpent who birthed the EARTHYcarnal mind--- pertaining ONLY to seeing the NATURAL mOLLY which is DEATH----
The serpent didn't 'birth' anything. He degraded and corrupted what God had created. Only life can create.
The serpent is Death.
he was the
Thought which was the
LIE which brought FORTH \BIRTHED death through EVE\our soul\mind\heart
For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on April 30, 2011, 07:41:48 PM
The visible, tangible, physical things (locusts) which come out of the smoke
represent the men, ministries, movements, organizations, governments, and activities
that are born/spawned by the thoughts, perceptions, ideas, interpretations, and opinions that come from the heart!
always found this one interesting Beloved Servant -Isa 65:5 Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me;
for I am holier than thou. These [are] a smoke in my nose,
a fire that burneth all the day.
Oh Nineveh!: "Thy crowned ones are as the locusts" (Nahum 3:17).
Quote from: Beloved Servant on April 30, 2011, 07:48:50 PM
Oh Nineveh!: "Thy crowned ones are as the locusts" (Nahum 3:17).
dont Locusts Consume the HARVEST?-The locusts have
no king, Yet they all advance in ranks;
:icon_flower:
"And unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power...and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man" (Rev. 9:3-5).
The sting in their Tails - the false prophets who SPEAK lies- the STING of DEATH :sigh:
Daimon means, literally, a DEIFIED SPIRIT! It is a GOD that rules over man.
You still haven't shown me where death can give birth to anything. Death is inert. It is stasis. It is the state of being without life. All it can do is corrupt everything that touches it.
"death"
a permanent cessation of all vital functions : the end of life
John12:24;
Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
Quote from: Molly on April 30, 2011, 07:57:35 PM
You still haven't shown me where death can give birth to anything. Death is inert. It is stasis. It is the state of being without life. All it can do is corrupt everything that touches it.
"death"
a permanent cessation of all vital functions : the end of life
thats why ADAM DROPPED DEAD THE MOMENT he ate from the Tree of death right - or why when the carnal Mind Gives life to thought as did the carnal mind of PETER - Molly if you dont see this Fine--- well just go around day
Death can not give life to anything MOLLY not even a Thought its dead as you mention so how can one even THINK--- life is in the BLOOD within Natural Man too he has a Brain which processs thought-- what on earth do you Think gives life to it?
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
seem dead people can Believe to -- how on earth can dead folk believe--- if they can believe they MUST have thought even though they WERE DEAD--- so the DEAD can GIVE LIFE TO THOUGHTS--why is this sooooooooo difficult to understand???? :dontknow:
Quote from: Taffy on April 30, 2011, 08:04:45 PM
Quote from: Molly on April 30, 2011, 07:57:35 PM
You still haven't shown me where death can give birth to anything. Death is inert. It is stasis. It is the state of being without life. All it can do is corrupt everything that touches it.
"death"
a permanent cessation of all vital functions : the end of life
thats why ADAM DROPPED DEAD THE MOMENT he ate from the Tree of death right - or why when the carnal Mind Gives life to thought as did the carnal mind of PETER - Molly if you dont see this Fine--- well just go around day
Death can not give life to anything MOLLY not even a Thought its dead as you mention so how can one even THINK--- life is in the BLOOD within Natural Man too he has a Brain which processs thought-- what on earth do you Think gives life to it?
He did drop dead the moment he ate from the tree. He dropped dead spiritually. He lost his direct and unimpeded access to God. He lost his dominion. He lost eternal life. He's been the walking dead ever since.
If natural man could process a life giving thought on his own, this world would be a paradise today.
Quote from: Molly on April 30, 2011, 08:12:09 PM
Quote from: Taffy on April 30, 2011, 08:04:45 PM
Quote from: Molly on April 30, 2011, 07:57:35 PM
You still haven't shown me where death can give birth to anything. Death is inert. It is stasis. It is the state of being without life. All it can do is corrupt everything that touches it.
"death"
a permanent cessation of all vital functions : the end of life
thats why ADAM DROPPED DEAD THE MOMENT he ate from the Tree of death right - or why when the carnal Mind Gives life to thought as did the carnal mind of PETER - Molly if you dont see this Fine--- well just go around day
Death can not give life to anything MOLLY not even a Thought its dead as you mention so how can one even THINK--- life is in the BLOOD within Natural Man too he has a Brain which processs thought-- what on earth do you Think gives life to it?
He did drop dead the moment he ate from the tree. He dropped dead spiritually. He lost his direct and unimpeded access to God. He lost his dominion. He lost eternal life. He's been the walking dead ever since.
If natural man could process a life giving thought on his own, this world would be a paradise today.
then he would be spiritually minded--- but that doesnt negate that DEAD folk dont birth Toughts Just cos there walking DEAD MOLLY---- hence they Give Life to their Thoughts as did EVE but brought DEATH
Paradise ruled by carnality. It is precisely where we are today. Adams' brainchild!
Quote from: Beloved Servant on April 30, 2011, 08:14:48 PM
Paradise ruled by carnality. It is precisely where we are today. Adams' brainchild!
:thumbsup:
Quote from: Beloved Servant on April 30, 2011, 08:14:48 PM
Paradise ruled by carnality. It is precisely where we are today. Adams' brainchild!
We aren't even that far. Thousands of children die of starvation every day.
Carnality is not interested in life. Only death.
Yet there are countless charities striving to feed the children: The tree of good and evil is the only fruit the mind of man can bear.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on April 30, 2011, 08:19:40 PM
Yet there are countless charities striving to feed the children: The tree of good and evil is the only fruit the mind of man can bear.
If they were really interested in feeding the children, the children would be fed.
They aren't. They love death.
Quote from: jabcat on April 30, 2011, 05:42:04 PM
Quote from: Taffy on April 30, 2011, 02:27:52 PM
Quote from: jabcat on April 30, 2011, 07:29:13 AM
Yeah, you're right. My question could lead into battle ground territory. My mistake. My main point is, I believe there's literal (form) and figurative (function); and we can lose sight of either if we get too locked in on one or the other.
Anyway, blessings. :bigGrin:
Jab- For us Figurative Folk we are Not throwing the Baby out the water---as even the figurative is Literal--- for mine Without semantics, its better understood The natural take as in HOW any other BOOK in the world is read... BUT the figurative Rising to another Plane--- which for mine when understood makes the natural understood , ity the natural veiw which causes Contention-- as the scrips read this way always seem to contradict each other--hence way men have there battle grounds----- :HeartThrob:
:icon_flower:
I know you see the literal as well Taf. :Peace2:
:icon_flower: :thumbsup:
If they were really interested in feeding the children, the children would be fed.
They aren't. They love death.
So they sew fig leaves together and make self-righteous, man-made, protective coverings for themselves.
the very SKIN of our felshy Bodies Known as SKIN-- hence why sarx= flesh means carnally mined= to be striiped away---- and the LORD who DRAW DRAGS[ your flesh off] :icon_flower:
Quote from: Beloved Servant on April 30, 2011, 08:33:25 PM
If they were really interested in feeding the children, the children would be fed.
They aren't. They love death.
So they sew fig leaves together and make self-righteous, man-made, protective coverings for themselves.
Sew fig leaves--By pretending to support charity. So the rest of the world will look away and not see their naked evil.
Those Pharisees weren't cute little misguided carnal folk--they were murderers. Murder means intent.
Murderers from the beginning; a war of two wills, one of God and the other of man.
Quote from: Beloved Servant on April 30, 2011, 09:37:00 PM
Murderers from the beginning; a war of two wills, one of God and the other of man.
It's not God versus man. It's spirit versus spirit.
One side wishes to destroy man, the other side to save him.
For whatever reason, God is allowing it in this age.
Man's flesh spirit [carnal mind] makes him only a pawn in the game, easily deceived and recruited to the side of Death.
But we have the mind of Christ.
John 5:40 (Amplified Bible)
And still you are not willing [but refuse] to come to Me, so that you might have life.
Quote from: Taffy on April 30, 2011, 04:19:15 PM
Quote from: Molly on April 30, 2011, 03:20:50 PM
Quote from: Taffy on April 30, 2011, 02:34:06 PM
Quote from: Molly on April 29, 2011, 08:15:46 PM
No. Flesh cannot give life, it can only give death, it can only destroy.
The carnal mind is the flesh mind. What is born of flesh is flesh.
Only Spirit can give life. Spirit can also kill and destroy.
But we are like a simple instrument with an on/off switch.
When off, we are dead.
When on, we are Christ.
Molly - you miss the point-- of course one can GIVE life to the carnal mind in US--but yes it brings death not life, it will also bring rebuke and correction --- hence to be CARNAL MINDED is DEATH to be spiritually minded is Life and PEACE---
Life.Never.Brings.Death.
A dead thing cannot give life [except in Michael Jackson videos].
Two choices only--choose life.
This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live.
--Deut 30:19
- so eves mind NEVER gave LIFE to her THOUGHTwhich brought DEATH ------ seems some of the Faith too gave LIFE to their carnal mind which opposess , when they too were given over to their OWN minds for the destruction of it--- :dontknow:
So you think there is power of substance in darkness. Interesting. You know I have come acroos an article that explains that darknes is not merely the absence of light, but has a life of it's own.
QuoteSo you think there is power of substance in darkness. Interesting. You know I have come acroos an article that explains that darknes is not merely the absence of light, but has a life of it's own.
welcome to your MIND TT-- this all pertains within-- :icon_flower:
Darkness has rulers--
againstG4314 theG3588 rulersG2888 of theG3588 darknessG4655 of thisG5127 world,G165
[Eph 6:12]
And it has inhabitants--
Isaiah 9:2
The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.
And it has power--
Luke 22:53
When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.
But I don't think it has life.
Proverbs 23
King James Version
1 When thou sittest to eat with a ruler, consider diligently what is before thee:
2 And put a knife to thy throat, if thou be a man given to appetite.
3 Be not desirous of his dainties: for they are deceitful meat.
4 Labour not to be rich: cease from thine own wisdom.
5 Wilt thou set thine eyes upon that which is not? for riches certainly make themselves wings; they fly away as an eagle toward heaven.
6 Eat thou not the bread of him that hath an evil eye, neither desire thou his dainty meats:
7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.
8 The morsel which thou hast eaten shalt thou vomit up, and lose thy sweet words.
9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.
10 Remove not the old landmark; and enter not into the fields of the fatherless:
11 For their redeemer is mighty; he shall plead their cause with thee.
12 Apply thine heart unto instruction, and thine ears to the words of knowledge.
Quote from: Taffy on April 30, 2011, 11:22:10 PM
QuoteSo you think there is power of substance in darkness. Interesting. You know I have come acroos an article that explains that darknes is not merely the absence of light, but has a life of it's own.
welcome to your MIND TT-- this all pertains within-- :icon_flower:
No the mind is a battlefield of good and evil. Thats why the new testament says to renew your mind with the word of God.
If you think the eye is full of evil how great is that darkness, but if think light, then the eye of the soul gets illuminated and one become a lamp to shine greater light.
all things said in PARABLES- FOR this JUDGMENT I came into this """WORLD\earth""" they they that see might not see-and they that SEE MIGHT be made BLIND :icon_flower:
There are a lot of non sequitur comments on this thread. [That's Latin for 'it does not follow.' :happygrin:]
Quote from: Molly on May 01, 2011, 03:30:33 AM
There are a lot of non sequitur comments on this thread. [That's Latin for 'it does not follow.' :happygrin:]
You got that right. It seems very hard to start a thread and not have alot of non sequitur comments . :bigGrin:
personally they overlap with much of whats being discussed- :HeartThrob:
:2c: By two or three witnessess ? heres some twos which all say the same - as in relation to the topic we are discussing--
Matt. 13:47-50), the Kingdom is said to be like fishermen casting nets into the sea, bringing to shore all kinds of fish, both good and bad. When the net arrives at the shore, the fish are separated, indicating the "end of the age" when the wicked are separated from the righteous.
The END of HATE, and the Beginning of LOVE- two minds seperated and the continuation
aka Esau and Jacob
our eve HIS eve in US
No longer OJ but the NEWJ
I create EVILand I create GOOD
Mountains Lowered Valleys Filled
Natural Man then Spiritual Man
Flesh from Spirit
Death to LIFE
Carnal Mind HIS mind
The Older brother serving the YOUNGER
the wicked to the Good
Cain Then abel\seth
Old man NEW man
Goliath David
old Tongue New tongue
CHURCH ORDER TO KINGDOM ORDER
small stature HIS stature
Darkness Light
Night day
False covering , TRUE COVERING
Tutor reality
law grace
hades [ hell] Heaven
Earth New earth
Lies TRUTH
Murder LIFE
enemy friend
MOON SUN
unrighteous - righteous
Quote from: TaffyMatt. 13:47-50), the Kingdom is said to be like fishermen casting nets into the sea, bringing to shore all kinds of fish, both good and bad. When the net arrives at the shore, the fish are separated, indicating the "end of the age" when the wicked are separated from the righteous.
Since you put 'the end of the age' in quotes, I assume you do not believe in any actual real ages, but that is all spiritual, too?
There must (also) be a literal end of the age beacuse:
a] An age without an end is for ever.
b] It would mean God is never all in all.
c] Death will rule for ever.
d] Jesus will never submit all things.
e] Death is the bigger winner.
Quote from: Molly on May 01, 2011, 03:13:38 PM
Quote from: TaffyMatt. 13:47-50), the Kingdom is said to be like fishermen casting nets into the sea, bringing to shore all kinds of fish, both good and bad. When the net arrives at the shore, the fish are separated, indicating the "end of the age" when the wicked are separated from the righteous.
Since you put 'the end of the age' in quotes, I assume you do not believe in any actual real ages, but that is all spiritual, too?
I see it as the END of carnal man the beginning of the NEW
Quote from: WhiteWings on May 01, 2011, 03:30:11 PM
There must (also) be a litteral end of the age beacuse:
a] An age without an end is for ever.
b] It would mean God is never all in all.
c] Death will rule for ever.
d] Jesus will never submit all things.
e] Death is the bigger winner.
tony- theres much to be said concering how all concludes--- either way I continue to press in - :icon_flower:
Quote from: Taffy on May 01, 2011, 03:49:06 PM
Quote from: Molly on May 01, 2011, 03:13:38 PM
Quote from: TaffyMatt. 13:47-50), the Kingdom is said to be like fishermen casting nets into the sea, bringing to shore all kinds of fish, both good and bad. When the net arrives at the shore, the fish are separated, indicating the "end of the age" when the wicked are separated from the righteous.
Since you put 'the end of the age' in quotes, I assume you do not believe in any actual real ages, but that is all spiritual, too?
I see it as the END of carnal man the beginning of the NEW
The end of carnal man? Does this refer to a group of men, and happening at a particular time? Or is it relative to each man? That is to say, is an 'age' referring to a fixed point in time? Or just a relative, metaphorical, assignment?
PS doesn't the end of carnal man happen for each one at death?
Quote from: Molly on May 01, 2011, 04:54:01 PM
Quote from: Taffy on May 01, 2011, 03:49:06 PM
Quote from: Molly on May 01, 2011, 03:13:38 PM
Quote from: TaffyMatt. 13:47-50), the Kingdom is said to be like fishermen casting nets into the sea, bringing to shore all kinds of fish, both good and bad. When the net arrives at the shore, the fish are separated, indicating the "end of the age" when the wicked are separated from the righteous.
Since you put 'the end of the age' in quotes, I assume you do not believe in any actual real ages, but that is all spiritual, too?
I see it as the END of carnal man the beginning of the NEW
The end of carnal man? Does this refer to a group of men, and happening at a particular time? Or is it relative to each man? That is to say, is an 'age' referring to a fixed point in time? Or just a relative, metaphorical, assignment?
PS doesn't the end of carnal man happen for each one at death?
Christ came ONCE into the END of the WORLD[ thats MAN] - iread this as HIM whos come INTO me---
For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Hbr 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Hbr 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him
shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. does it not say EACH man in HIS time[ drawn to HIM] --- The death of the OLD man yes Molly [[but we will be going around in circles like yesterday speaking of Giving LIFE to the Carnal Mind---etc etc---]]] we each got to walk this out---
Quote from: micah7:9 on April 29, 2011, 06:03:28 AM
This verse is the only time we find "spiritual body" in the Word of God. (1 Cor.15:44) And we find that it is single, not plural as bodies. Still I would venture to say that most all ministers talk about man having or will have spiritual bodies in the hearafter or when we die.
There is also much talk of "spiritual beings" definition of being a : the quality or state of having existence b (1) : something conceivable as existing (2) : something that actually exists.... Again there is no "spiritual being(s)" in the Bible, or even the word "being" used in the sense of (2) : something that actually exists
1Co 15:44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body; there is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body;
BODY G4983 sōma the body (as a sound whole) from G4982 sōzō From a primary word σῶς sōs̄ (contraction for the obsolete σάος saos, "safe"); to save, that is, deliver or protect (literally or figuratively): - heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole.
This tells me that a body is sound..[.sound].. from dictionary (a : free from injury or disease b : free from flaw, defect, or decay) examples.....a building of sound construction ........The bridge is structurally sound.
I had accepted the teaching that we will have spiritual bodies at the resurrection. Also I have always heard the phrase "spiritually dead" and "spiritually alive"
as well as "alive in the spirit," and again I cannot find that teaching in those words in the Word of God. I reason that if there were "spiritual bodies" "spiritually dead" "spiritually alive" "die spiritually" that Paul would have taken the time to inform us of these sensations or phases, or changes. I do understand how we(man) and think that way, but Paul was pretty much first hand in the Good News teaching, he certainly knew of those words, I believe that Paul could have put them together to explain to the hears. He did not.
The verse in ICor.15:44 reads that mankind is sown(or began) a natural(sensitive that is, animate)
it is raised(aroused or awaken from sleep) spiritual(non-carnal) and we know from 1Co 15:45 so also it hath been written, `The first man Adam became a living creature,' the last Adam is for a life-giving spirit, .....this verse tells me that when the natural body(first adam) will be raised a spiritual body(second adam.)
This all makes me reason and except that we do not recieve spiritual bodies when we die or when resurrected, that there is no such thing as spiritually dead, except in christian religion teaching. This is what my Bible reads,
Eph 4:4 one body and one Spirit, according as also ye were called in one hope of your calling;
2Ti 2:11 Faithful is the saying: For if we died with him, we shall also live with him:
I am open for instruction and reproof.
I am totally in sink with with the above Quote. jokes on spelling not welcome
:cloud9: Have not had time to read all the thread, but just a quick comment before I have to leave......
The wheat and the TARES are RAISED UP (same as word for quickened) together, which is why we read later, "Choose ye this day, whom ye will serve". BOTH are given "life" to present a choice. And why it says, the RAIN, falls on the just and the UNJUST.
The darkness is given life to provide an adversary to present a choice. If we choose wrongly, we give more life to that thing, and if repentance does not come, we birth that thing into existance, and eventually it becomes the scripture principle where He reproves us with OUR OWN wickedness. Blessings.....
It is, as if, we become our own judge.
Luke 24:
34.."Really roused was the Lord, and was seen by Simon!"
35 And they unfolded the events on the road, and how He is known to them in the breaking of the bread.
36 Now at their speaking these things, Jesus Himself stood in their midst and is saying to them, "Peace to you!"
37 Yet, being dismayed and becoming affrighted, they supposed they are beholding a spirit.
38 And He said to them, "Why are you disturbed? And wherefore are reasonings coming up in your hearts?
39 Perceive My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and perceive, for a spirit has not flesh and bones according as you behold Me having."
40 And saying this, He exhibits to them His hands and feet.
41 Now, at their still disbelieving from joy, and marveling, He said to them, "Have you any food in this place?"
42 Now they hand Him part of a broiled fish,
43 and, taking it, He ate before them.
44 Now He said to them, "These are My words, which I speak to you, still being with you, for all must be fulfilled that is written in the law of Moses and the prophets and psalms concerning Me."
45 Then He opens up their mind to understand the scriptures,
46 and said to them that "Thus it is written, and thus must the Christ be suffering and rise from among the dead the third day,
47 and there is to be heralded in His name repentance for the pardon of sins, to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
48 Now you shall be witnesses of these things.
49 And lo! I am delegating the promise of My Father on you. Now you be seated in the city of Jerusalem till you should be putting on power from on high."
50 Now He led them out as far as to Bethany, and, lifting up His hands, He blesses them.
51 And it occurred as He is blessing them, He put an interval between Himself and them, and He was carried up into heaven.
52 And they, worshiping Him, return to Jerusalem with great joy.
53 And they were continually in the sanctuary, praising and blessing God. Amen!
Please go on?