spiritual bodies

[Molly]

So are you saying that animals before being turned into flesh, had a spiritual body?

Yes.  I think that's probably right.  The animals fell when Adam did.  When they are restored, the lion will lie down with the lamb.


3 By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word  of God,  so that what is seen has been made from things that are not visible.
--Heb 11


So the LORD God formed out of the ground each wild animal and each bird of the sky, and brought each to the man to see what he would call it.  And whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name.
--Gen 2

[Beloved Servant]

It's curious to wonder if the animal kingdom represents the various and seemingly endless proclivities of man's own carnal nature.

[micah7:9]

I'm more curious about how you would illustrate to us this belief of yours, Micah.

What does it "look like"?

And more importantly, what about individualism, the individual?

I hope we believe the same. I have no idea as to an illustration. What does "what" look like?

[micah7:9]

It's curious to wonder if the animal kingdom represents the various and seemingly endless proclivities of man's own carnal nature.

I dont "think" so, but I do consider that man(kind) has thought more of itself as man(kind) progressed, than man(kind) really is. Like important. I believe that man(kind) UNTIL the Lord begins a work in him, he only thinks of the natural things and how they can satisfy his self.

[Beloved Servant]

Romans 12:4-5; (Weymouth)

For just as there are in the one human body many parts, and these parts have not all the same function; so collectively we form one body in Christ, while individually we are linked to one another as its members.

[Molly]

It's curious to wonder if the animal kingdom represents the various and seemingly endless proclivities of man's own carnal nature.

I doubt it since man is the only predator that kills its own species in great numbers.

Animals look good by comparison.

[Beloved Servant]

Tell that to a male black widow spider.

[micah7:9]

Tell that to a male black widow spider.

Yet The Creator set it up that way.

[jabcat]

Unfortunately, it that is not really the answer I'd expected for what I asked.

My thoughts are, there is the literal (we each are individuals with all that entails [physical, emotional, spiritual]) and the figurative (we are to function in unity, "as" one - living peaceably with each other as much as is possible).

I'm afraid we can get lost in either the symolism or the literal, when IMO, it's not one - it's both.

For instance, when Jesus said He and the Father were "one", what did He mean? 

Blessings.  (hopefully that doesn't de-rail the thread, but is related enough to be pertinent).

[micah7:9]

I believe that He Jesus and The Father are ONE. I also believe that it is the doctrine that we aint supposed to talk about on this site is what has confused man in understanding that "I and the Father are one." I have to believe that is the way He desries it to be.

My best friend told me something about half way through my 66 years. He said, I dont recall the conversation, but he said flat out and simple, "You are your father." He didnt then and maybe not now go to any church. But since I have been studying the Word that quote has made me to understand, "I and my Father are one."

[jabcat]

Yeah, you're right.  My question could lead into battle ground territory.  My mistake.  My main point is, I believe there's literal (form) and figurative (function);  and we can lose sight of either if we get too locked in on one or the other. 

Anyway, blessings.   :bigGrin:

[micah7:9]

I have this feeling that my queerys come forth as anti to what I believe and most certainly a great many on this forum believe as truth. I want to say I am not anti, I have questions about some of the basic teachings that we have come to accept as, "this is the way it is," and we build on that.

What do I respond or say to this......Ecc 3:18 I said in my heart:It is on account of the sons of humanity That the One, Elohim, seeks to manifest them And to show them that they themselves are beasts."
Ecc 3:19 For the destiny of the sons of humanity And the destiny of the beast, It is one destiny for them; As death is for this one, so is death for that one, And one spirit is for all; There is no advantage for the human over the beast, For the whole is vanity."
I believe we think more of what and who we are and lose the vision.

I am no one, but I know that God has moved on those who hear His call, those who languish is what is truth, treading water seeking land, and know that the truth that has brought us this far, know there is more. We all know of the Azuza street revival, the Latter Rain, the great spiritual energy that poured from from Canada, from Bro. Hawtin and Bro. Warnok and his teaching and opening our eyes to the Tabernacle teaching. I know that it made my heart swoon high, so high I did not have one desire to come back down.
I do not understand all of what is happening, I am just adamant that God is moving upward. We all talk so much about "spirit" and we get out our Youngs and Strongs to help us identify these things.
Rom 8:1  There is, then, now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit;
Rom 8:2  for the law of the Spirit of the life in Christ Jesus did set me free from the law of the sin and of the death;
Rom 8:3  for what the law was not able to do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, His own Son having sent in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, did condemn the sin in the flesh,
Rom 8:4  that the righteousness of the law may be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
There we have something. I truly believe that we, those who believe they are hearing what the Spirit is saying need to crawl back into that place of silence, where we seek HIM and TODAY consider just what this "spirit" is... "There is, then, now no condemnation to those in Christ Jesus, who walk not according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit;

I think we believers have come to think spirit is of no real substance, that it has no matter, we think of ghosts and apparitions.
We think earthy. Okay Im ready for the pounce and pile on.

[Taffy]

Okay Im ready for the pounce and pile on.

- :Peace: :duck:- :icon_flower:

[Molly]

What do I respond or say to this...

Try starting here--


25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

--John 11

[Taffy]

Yeah, you're right.  My question could lead into battle ground territory.  My mistake.  My main point is, I believe there's literal (form) and figurative (function);  and we can lose sight of either if we get too locked in on one or the other. 

Anyway, blessings.   :bigGrin:

Jab- For us Figurative Folk we are Not throwing the Baby out the water---as even the figurative is Literal--- for mine Without semantics, its better understood The natural take as in HOW any other BOOK in the world is read... BUT the figurative Rising to another Plane--- which for mine when understood makes the natural understood , ity the natural veiw which causes Contention-- as the scrips read this way always seem to contradict each other--hence way men have there battle grounds----- :HeartThrob:

[Taffy]

No.  Flesh cannot give life, it can only give death, it can only destroy.

The carnal mind is the flesh mind.  What is born of flesh is flesh.

Only Spirit can give life.  Spirit can also kill and destroy.

But we are like a simple instrument with an on/off switch.

When off, we are dead.

When on, we are Christ.

Molly - you miss the point-- of course one can GIVE life to the carnal mind in US--but yes it brings death not life, it will also bring rebuke and correction --- hence to be CARNAL MINDED is DEATH to be spiritually minded is Life and PEACE---

[Molly]

No.  Flesh cannot give life, it can only give death, it can only destroy.

The carnal mind is the flesh mind.  What is born of flesh is flesh.

Only Spirit can give life.  Spirit can also kill and destroy.

But we are like a simple instrument with an on/off switch.

When off, we are dead.

When on, we are Christ.

Molly - you miss the point-- of course one can GIVE life to the carnal mind in US--but yes it brings death not life, it will also bring rebuke and correction --- hence to be CARNAL MINDED is DEATH to be spiritually minded is Life and PEACE---

Life.Never.Brings.Death.

A dead thing cannot give life [except in Michael Jackson videos].

Two choices only--choose life.


This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live.
--Deut 30:19

[Taffy]

No.  Flesh cannot give life, it can only give death, it can only destroy.

The carnal mind is the flesh mind.  What is born of flesh is flesh.

Only Spirit can give life.  Spirit can also kill and destroy.

But we are like a simple instrument with an on/off switch.

When off, we are dead.

When on, we are Christ.

Molly - you miss the point-- of course one can GIVE life to the carnal mind in US--but yes it brings death not life, it will also bring rebuke and correction --- hence to be CARNAL MINDED is DEATH to be spiritually minded is Life and PEACE---

Life.Never.Brings.Death.

A dead thing cannot give life [except in Michael Jackson videos].

Two choices only--choose life.


This day I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live.
--Deut 30:19

- so eves mind NEVER gave LIFE to her THOUGHTwhich brought DEATH ------ seems some of the Faith too gave LIFE to their carnal mind which opposess , when they too were given over to their OWN minds for the destruction of it---   :dontknow:

[Molly]

so eves mind NEVER gave LIFE to her THOUGHTwhich brought DEATH ------

No.  How can death give life to something?

Eve was deceived.  She chose death.

[jabcat]

Yeah, you're right.  My question could lead into battle ground territory.  My mistake.  My main point is, I believe there's literal (form) and figurative (function);  and we can lose sight of either if we get too locked in on one or the other. 

Anyway, blessings.   :bigGrin:

Jab- For us Figurative Folk we are Not throwing the Baby out the water---as even the figurative is Literal--- for mine Without semantics, its better understood The natural take as in HOW any other BOOK in the world is read... BUT the figurative Rising to another Plane--- which for mine when understood makes the natural understood , ity the natural veiw which causes Contention-- as the scrips read this way always seem to contradict each other--hence way men have there battle grounds----- :HeartThrob:

I know you see the literal as well Taf.   :Peace2:

[Taffy]

so eves mind NEVER gave LIFE to her THOUGHTwhich brought DEATH ------

No.  How can death give life to something?

Eve was deceived.  She chose death.

you mean folk in the world WITH black and white Carnal Minds Dont BIRTH thoughts?00 we are are Talking Birthing THOUGHTS Molly---A man is man not just by The lord Breathing LIFE into HIM which carnal man Has too - a Man is defined by what he THINKS----the carnal mind thinks on the Natural Plain Not seing the SPIRITUAL reality-- again we are Back to PETERbeing Called Satan----and those the pharisees again a TYPE of carnal MIND which too couldnt SEE the LIFE that was--- there MIND being on EARTHY Natural things- ie works of the LAW- the NATURAL Temple :icon_flower:

[Molly]

so eves mind NEVER gave LIFE to her THOUGHTwhich brought DEATH ------

No.  How can death give life to something?

Eve was deceived.  She chose death.

you mean folk in the world WITH black and white Carnal Minds Dont BIRTH thoughts?00 we are are Talking Birthing THOUGHTS Molly---A man is man not just by The lord Breathing LIFE into HIM which carnal man Has too - a Man is defined by what he THINKS----the carnal mind thinks on the Natural Plain Not seing the SPIRITUAL reality-- again we are Back to PETERbeing Called Satan----and those the pharisees again a TYPE of carnal MIND which too couldnt SEE the LIFE that was--- there MIND being on EARTHY Natural things- ie works of the LAW- the NATURAL Temple :icon_flower:

Maybe you could give me an example of some thought a carnal mind has 'birthed' in the last 2000 years.  That might make it easier for me to see what you are saying.

As far as I'm concerned, it's just the same ol' same ol'.  Same lies, same theft, same murder, same betrayal, same power hungry insanity.  I don't see anything new coming out of those carnal minds--just death.  It's the reason why history repeats but doesn't rhyme...Satan is too lazy and uncreative to rhyme anything.

It's why there's nothing new under the sun.

[Taffy]

so eves mind NEVER gave LIFE to her THOUGHTwhich brought DEATH ------

No.  How can death give life to something?

Eve was deceived.  She chose death.

you mean folk in the world WITH black and white Carnal Minds Dont BIRTH thoughts?00 we are are Talking Birthing THOUGHTS Molly---A man is man not just by The lord Breathing LIFE into HIM which carnal man Has too - a Man is defined by what he THINKS----the carnal mind thinks on the Natural Plain Not seing the SPIRITUAL reality-- again we are Back to PETERbeing Called Satan----and those the pharisees again a TYPE of carnal MIND which too couldnt SEE the LIFE that was--- there MIND being on EARTHY Natural things- ie works of the LAW- the NATURAL Temple :icon_flower:

Maybe you could give me an example of some thought a carnal mind has 'birthed' in the last 2000 years.  That might make it easier for me to see what you are saying.

As far as I'm concerned, it's just the same ol' same ol'.  Same lies, same theft, same murder, same betrayal, same power hungry insanity.  I don't see anything new coming out of those carnal minds--just death.  It's the reason why history repeats but doesn't rhyme...Satan is too lazy and uncreative to rhyme anything.

It's why there's nothing new under the sun.

-the carnal Mind is enmity not being SUBJECT to the LAW of GOD- IS to BE BLINDED to HIS spiritual TRUTH MOLLY which is LIFE and Peace -

Jhn 8:43   Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. 


Jhn 8:44   Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

they SPOKE after there Father the Serpent who birthed the EARTHYcarnal mind--- pertaining ONLY to seeing the NATURAL mOLLY which is DEATH---- like all carnality is seeks the Lust of the FLESH[ MIND] for fulfilment--- its ses only the OUTWARD being the Life and Reality which in IN truth the LIFE and reality IS WITHIN--

THATS  what the carnaL mind does Like peter - when DWELLING on earthy THINGS they birth only THE THOUGHTS of the earthy sperent realm--- --its says the SERPENT was Cursed and it still is as are their MINDS  remain ONLY Carnal-- all in the Process of self destruction--- --- what they Birth beiliving to BE life IS truly DEATH

[Beloved Servant]

"And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power" (Rev. 9:3).

[Molly]

..they SPOKE after there Father the Serpent who birthed the EARTHYcarnal mind--- pertaining ONLY to seeing the NATURAL mOLLY which is DEATH----

The serpent didn't 'birth' anything.  He degraded and corrupted what God had created.  Only life can create.

The serpent is Death--a murderer from the beginning.