In Iraq the Shiite & Sunni muslim religions have been at each other's throats for some time now.
They murder each other by blowing up people and torturing and beheddings.
If they do this to fellow Muslims, what do you think they will do to us who are outright infidels according to their view?
When I was taking a humanities class in college the prof. was talking about Mohammed. During a class break I asked a girl, who was muslim, in front of me what the matter was as she seemed rather agitated. She said in the most hateful manner: "If my friends knew what he was teaching they'd kill him!"
I was shocked. But not anymore, now that I know more about their hatred.
When the Muslims took over the Armenian country in the 1800's they begain enforcing their sharia law on the Christians. Eventually the Muslims tried to drive out the Christians Armenians by murder, genocide, forced marches to their deaths etc.
You can read about it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide
Not long ago the Muslims in Dearborn were demanding prayer towers throughout the city with loudspeakers to tell everyone when each hour of prayer was. The city voted it down. But what will happen when the Muslim population buys up all the stores and runs everyone out? They will have their towers and their own sharia law.
So, do you have a proposed solution, or do you want us all to get scaaaaared?
I knew a muslim, I was more concerned that he viewed being a muslim as if that was his race. He said he fails to live up to the law so he has resigned to the fact that he is going to hell. Plainly states it and has no conception that Jesus can do anything for him whatsoever.
What I suspect is that he has been taught that you must live up to the Christian God in the same manner , so whats the point? :dontknow:
I concure from that perspective. Switching sides doesn't mean squat from that point of view.
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on October 28, 2008, 06:28:59 PM
So, do you have a proposed solution, or do you want us all to get scaaaaared?
Yes, the solution is to never have allowed them to immigrate into the U.S. to begin with. Any country or ethnicity whose religion is such that all non-adherents must be killed off must not be allowed in.
What is to be done with those already here? We wait till they kill us all off. Then we won't have to worry about immigration any more.
So, Tony, do you want to form a squad to go out and assassinate all the muslims in this country?
It is easy to pretend to take the high ground here by making light of this, but the fact is, there are far, far more muslims willing to blow themselves, their children and anyone else up for not believing the same way as you than there are Christians doing this. It would be hard to argue that Christianity has a large sect of these. Of course each religion may have certain 'nuts' associated with it, the fact of the matter is that Islam has many who would do this.
Now, that doesn't in and of itself make Muslim's bad people. We know that and I will chastise anyone who tries to lump Muslims in a group as being hateful and killers. However, there is a rather large and disproportionate number of of Mulsims would resort to violence than any other known religion of the world. If we don't stand up to it, we could very well face something similar to World War 2.
I wish more people would move to the center on this issue. To many people are all the way to the right and say that all muslims are bad. But there are also way to many people who excuse their bahavior and say it is only a 'small' number that do this. Rubbish, come to the middle and agree that this is an issue, but that not all, or even the majority of Muslims are bad. But we need to stand up to the ones who will kill you because you don't believe or live a certain way. That HAS to go.
Not sure who is making light of anything. If I do not walk around in fear what do you think that means?
If Tony thinks any muslim is dangerous, then he can step up to the plate and admit and /or explain the full scope of what he implies here.
If a person is not going to make light of it, then make a statement about what YOU intend to do, because frankly someone that suggest things in the manner in which Tony has are ok with the discrimination as long as they do not have to take a physical part in it. As long as someone else takes care of it, it's all good.
So Gabe, explain what you do to stand up to the muslims you are talking about. Leave a forum post?
Yes Paul, I am discriminating against Muslim people.
The Muslim fathers murder their daughters if they don't do what they think they should. Just the other day a Muslim father cut the tongue out of his daughter then poured gasoline on her and burned her to death because she had tried to marry someone he did not choose for her. If they do this to their own children then it doesn't take a whole lot of brains to figure what they will do to us.
Yes I discriminate. They have given me no reason not to.
They murdered over a million and a half Arminians less than a hundred years ago. In the early 1900's. The Muslims have been murdering the black Muslims in Africa by the hundreds of thousands just in the last couple years. And you don't want me to discriminate? I discriminate.
Trust me when I say if the muslims take control of the United States it will come to war. But only after they have murdered millions of us. We are too complacent. We are too wishy washy. We want everyone to be our friends. But they hate anything Christian.
Of course one can always find the odd person in the muslim religion that could care less about other religions. But get the herd mentality going with them and its curtains for us. Just look at history. Please discriminate!
Less than 200 years ago, "Christians" were doing the same thing.
Hi Tony,
Let me clarify what I want you to answer more specifically.
Discrimination is not always bad depending upon the means and circumstance in which it is excersized, in this case it is a convenient word to avoid stating directly the greater implication of what you want.
I sometimes assume the poster is from America and that is not always the case.
If you are an American Tony..... Answer this question.
Do you want to form a squad to go out and assassinate all the muslims in this country?
come to a new country(not neccesarily invited)
tell the centuries old traditions that theirs is better!
decide to walk the streets to make sure this comes about!
leave only when they want to
establish an entire new system,socially ,govermently.
oh wait -the us army did this to;ooops
if it was about the people,i agree.but more often than not it has to do with money and political leverage.
so sometimes the invader is on the other foot!
Quote from: SOtW on October 28, 2008, 11:26:51 PM
Less than 200 years ago, "Christians" were doing the same thing.
Other than some isolated incidents, you will have to provide more information on this. 200 years ago was 1808, and other than some fluke or odd obscure salem witch trial type thing, I don't think it is entirely accurate. If we move back to the 1600's and before, we will that it was absolutely true, though it was still true for Islam of that day as well.
What Tony mentioned is absolutely correct in that if they are willing to destroy their own children, then they are evil. Not beyond hope, but they are evil. I say again, anyone who kills his child is evil. Much less strapping explosives on them to kill other people. I hope to God that no Christian or anyone for that matter can sit back and defend such crimes against humanity. Otherwise, we should just vindicate Hitler now and get it over with.
Quote from: onlytruth on October 29, 2008, 12:19:33 AM
come to a new country(not neccesarily invited)
tell the centuries old traditions that theirs is better!
decide to walk the streets to make sure this comes about!
leave only when they want to
establish an entire new system,socially ,govermently.
oh wait -the us army did this to;ooops
if it was about the people,i agree.but more often than not it has to do with money and political leverage.
so sometimes the invader is on the other foot!
This thread has nothing to do with the Iraq war. Please don't bring this into the discussion.
Quote from: SOtW on October 28, 2008, 11:26:51 PM
Less than 200 years ago, "Christians" were doing the same thing.
This is so true ! I saw a documentary on TV and was horrified !
this country of USA is only alittle over 200 years as well and the blood shed it was founded on in the name of God is atrocious :msealed:
Quote from: Gabe Grinstead on October 29, 2008, 12:21:21 AM
Quote from: SOtW on October 28, 2008, 11:26:51 PM
Less than 200 years ago, "Christians" were doing the same thing.
Other than some isolated incidents, you will have to provide more information on this. 200 years ago was 1808, and other than some fluke or odd obscure salem witch trial type thing, I don't think it is entirely accurate. If we move back to the 1600's and before, we will that it was absolutely true, though it was still true for Islam of that day as well.
What Tony mentioned is absolutely correct in that if they are willing to destroy their own children, then they are evil. Not beyond hope, but they are evil. I say again, anyone who kills his child is evil. Much less strapping explosives on them to kill other people. I hope to God that no Christian or anyone for that matter can sit back and defend such crimes against humanity. Otherwise, we should just vindicate Hitler now and get it over with.
Lets see if Tony will answer my question then you can respond to his answer.
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on October 28, 2008, 11:39:00 PM
Hi Tony,
Let me clarify what I want you to answer more specifically.
Discrimination is not always bad depending upon the means and circumstance in which it is excersized, in this case it is a convenient word to avoid stating directly the greater implication of what you want.
I sometimes assume the poster is from America and that is not always the case.
If you are an American Tony..... Answer this question.
Do you want to form a squad to go out and assassinate all the muslims in this country?
I am a U.S. citizen. American is too broad a term. And American can live in Canada, United States, Central America or South America.
No, forming a squad to assassinate all the muslims would put us on the same murderous plane that they are on. Instead we should deport them before they murder us.
Last time I was in England in 2000 the Muslims were taking over that country with a birthrate of about 9 children to the British woman's one child. In France they are looting and torching if they don't get their way. In Morocco they blow up trains etc. In Africa they have been murdering hundreds of thousands to get their way. They have one goal: Make the Islamic religion the world wide religion.
By the way, those over a million murdered Armenians were Christians.
BTW SoTw, Christians in the middle ages were not just going out and murdering people. They were being overrun by Islamic Turks etc. and we were having to take our land back that they raped and pillaged.
Quote
No, forming a squad to assassinate all the muslims would put us on the same murderous plane that they are on. Instead we should deport them before they murder us.
So all muslims want you dead? All of em?
Nobody wants muslims dead..sheesh. What I think we need to do is take charge of our immigration policies, which are running amock at the moment and have for some time. This is clearly social engineering by those who would take our liberties away--dilute the society. It is happening in Europe right now. Many countries of Western Europe are already 25 percent muslim. What people have to understand is that the muslim religion is a political force which is the antithesis of the principles on which this country was founded. We have freedom of religion here--they do not--it is a death sentence for a muslim to become a Christian--and if they get ahold of our government, we will see our freedoms shut down very fast.
Close our borders!
I'm voting for Tony.
The problem is that the arguments for what this country was founded and it freedoms is exactly what you will take away if you deport all the muslims because of their religion.
If we can do it to them, someone can rightly do it to you as long as they make it legal and make the case that your a threat based on what you believe.
The KKK can assemble and believe what they want, when they take action that is against the law, no one is against arresting them. The greater force that has reduced the KKK to nothing but a silly annoying presence in this country has been the love for the equality of who the KKK hates.
I do see people wanting muslims dead for the sake of their religion. Saying it is ok to just round up people based on their faith has no better base in morality. Your no different than a terrorist no matter how good you feel about yourself if you believe thats right. Now thats worth a sheesh.
Well, I could say why don't you move to a muslim country and live by their rules for a while before you decide you want to import them over here.
Because we are not talking about a group who will assimilate to our way of life. They will never assimilate to Judeo/Christian values, which nobody seems to appreciate anyways, so maybe you deserve to be ordered when to pray and what to wear and what to eat and what you can say, and when to die if you say the wrong thing---and then, maybe, just maybe, you might appreciate liberty enough to want to preserve it--as a cultural mandate.
The Archbishop of Canterbury has attracted widespread criticism after appearing to back the adoption of some aspects of Sharia law in the UK.
Dr Rowan Williams said the UK had to "face up to the fact" some citizens did not relate to the UK legal system.
Culture Secretary Andy Burnham said such moves would create "social chaos."
But Bishop of Hulme, the Rt Rev Stephen Lowe, criticised the "disgraceful" way in which the archbishop had been "ridiculed" and "lampooned" by some.
"We have probably one of the greatest and the brightest archbishops of Canterbury we have had for many a long day," he said.
Taken aback
The robust defence follows criticism of Dr Williams in some circles.
The BBC understands from sources who work on Christian-Muslim interfaith issues that the Dr Williams has faced a barrage of criticism from within the Church and has been genuinely taken aback by how his words were received.
Islamic Sharia law is a legal and social code designed to help Muslims live their daily lives, but it has proved controversial in the West for the extreme nature of some of its punishments.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7233335.stm
Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg said he had "an enormous amount of respect" for Dr Williams, but could not agree with him on this issue.
He said: "Equality before the law is part of the glue that binds our society together. We cannot have a situation where there is one law for one person and different laws for another."
Quote from: Molly on October 29, 2008, 06:34:28 AM
Well, I could say why don't you move to a muslim country and live by their rules for a while before you decide you want to import them over here.
You can say that, but your applying what is happening in another country and applying it to say that because we allow them into this country that we will end up like them. It is all fear and it is not in alignment with what gives yourself the freedom to do what you do.
Quote
Because we are not talking about a group who will assimilate to our way of life.
They will never assimilate to Judeo/Christian values, which nobody seems to appreciate anyways, so maybe you deserve to be ordered when to pray and what to wear and what to eat and what you can say, and when to die if you say the wrong thing---and then, maybe, just maybe, you might appreciate liberty enough to want to preserve it--as a cultural mandate.
There are muslims in this country now, and they live as americans, practice their faith that is not the interpretation of the koran to kill people and "assimilate" just fine. The majority of them do that now.
It is the fear that they are just waiting for the call to rise up against everyone. You will never make this country better by living in that fear. How terribly wrong.
If Judeo/Christian values is to round up people you do not like as cattle, then it isn't worth anything at all.
How Ironic, telling me that to appreciate my liberty I must agree to oppress others based on a religious belief.
Friday, October 03, 2008
Iranian Parliament provisionally approves death penalty for leaving Islam
Barnabas Fund reports,'The Iranian Parliament has given provisional approval, by a majority of 196 to seven, to a bill that mandates the death penalty for apostasy from Islam. Until now Iranian judges could impose the death penalty in such cases only on the basis of Islamic law and fatwas, not on the basis of Iranian law.
The bill prescribes a mandatory death sentence for any male Muslim who converts from Islam to another religion, and lifelong imprisonment for female converts from Islam. It also gives the Iranian secular courts authority to convict Iranians living outside the country of crimes relating to Iranian national security. It seems likely that this could be used against the many Iranian Christians who live outside Iran but are involved in evangelism within it. Apostasy from Islam is viewed by most Muslims as equivalent to treason.
The bill, which was drafted earlier this year, is now being reviewed in parliament, giving MPs the opportunity to amend it. Before it becomes law the bill will also be vetted by the Council of Guardians, a twelve-member legislative body with the power to veto any bill that does not conform to Islamic law and the constitution.
Article 23 of the Iranian constitution states that "the investigation of individuals' beliefs is forbidden, and no one may be molested or taken to task simply for holding a certain belief". Iran is also a signatory of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, which guarantees freedom of belief.
"The provisional approval of this bill has serious implications for Iranian Christian converts, who already face much persecution from the authorities," says Dr Patrick Sookhdeo, International Director of Barnabas Fund. "It seems that the Iranian government is willing to continue on its course of complete Islamisation at the expense of the most basic human rights and in contradiction to Article 23 of the Iranian constitution. The Iranian Church needs our prayers more than ever."
The progress of the bill coincides with the formal charging of two Christian converts from Islam, Arash Basirat and Mahmood Matin-Azad, with apostasy at the beginning of August. Some Iranian Christians fear that the authorities are seeking to make an example of the two Christians, or to give the prospective law a "test run".
The persecution that Christian converts from Islam face under shari'a law is often not recognised by Western governments. Immigration officers frequently fail to distinguish between Christians who come from a Christian background and those who have converted from Islam. The latter may face real danger to their lives, either from their country's law enforcement agencies or from their community and family, even if Christians from a Christian background are not at risk. A number of Christian converts from Islam have been refused asylum in Western countries, including Iranians. In the light of this it is encouraging that on 29 September a Syrian Christian couple, both converts from Islam, were granted asylum in Britain. The couple had fled Syria after receiving death threats from their families.
Western ignorance of Muslim attitudes to apostasy can have serious consequences for asylum-seeking converts even without their being deported to their home countries. According to reports last weekend, a Libyan Christian convert from Islam was beaten almost to death by Muslims while at West Drayton Removal Centre in the UK. Twenty-eight-year-old Moftah Abdulghani, who had fled Libya after converting to Christianity, was awaiting a review of his case following the failure of his application for asylum in the UK. His Christian faith became known to the hundreds of Muslim detainees at the same Removal Centre, who began to abuse and threaten him. The assault, allegedly at the hands of Yemeni and Somali detainees, came as Moftah left the makeshift church at the Removal Centre. He is to be moved to another detention centre and kept in solitary confinement for his own safety.'
http://christianquoter.blogspot.com/2008/10/iranian-parliament-provisionally.html
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on October 29, 2008, 07:08:40 AM
Quote from: Molly on October 29, 2008, 06:34:28 AM
Well, I could say why don't you move to a muslim country and live by their rules for a while before you decide you want to import them over here.
You can say that, but your applying what is happening in another country and applying it to say that because we allow them into this country that we will end up like them. It is all fear and it is not in alignment with what gives yourself the freedom to do what you do.
Quote
Because we are not talking about a group who will assimilate to our way of life.
They will never assimilate to Judeo/Christian values, which nobody seems to appreciate anyways, so maybe you deserve to be ordered when to pray and what to wear and what to eat and what you can say, and when to die if you say the wrong thing---and then, maybe, just maybe, you might appreciate liberty enough to want to preserve it--as a cultural mandate.
There are muslims in this country now, and they live as americans, practice their faith that is not the interpretation of the koran to kill people and "assimilate" just fine. The majority of them do that now.
It is the fear that they are just waiting for the call to rise up against everyone. You will never make this country better by living in that fear. How terribly wrong.
If Judeo/Christian values is to round up people you do not like as cattle, then it isn't worth anything at all.
How Ironic, telling me that to appreciate my liberty I must agree to oppress others based on a religious belief.
Have you ever read the Koran? Or any parts of it? Have you studied the Armenian genocide where up to 2 million Christians were massacred and murdered on forced death marches because they were Christian? How about the recent genocide in Africa, again Christians killed by muslims. Don't talk about something you don't know anything about.
Round up people like cattle? I never said that although I think all illegal immigrants should be sent home unless they are here by asylum. And, I think we should close our borders to new immigrants because things are clearly out of control. I don't want to find myself in the position Britian and Europe is in right now. And, I don't intend to be forced to wear a bhurka, although I do look good in black.
None of that is an excuse to round up and deport muslims in the United States for the sole reason of their religious beliefs.
Because the very criteria that would allow that, could make you next.
This is Judeo/Christian values? Then I renounce them.
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on October 29, 2008, 07:20:46 AM
None of that is an excuse to round up and deport muslims in the United States for the sole reason of their religious beliefs.
Because the very criteria that would allow that, could make you next.
This is Judeo/Christian values? Then I renounce them.
Not deport citizens. It's too late to do that. But deport all non citizens, and not just muslims. All.
And close our borders.
Quote from: Molly on October 29, 2008, 07:17:52 AM
Have you ever read the Koran? Or any parts of it?
Have you ever read the Bible where God kills people and gives his children the right to Judge others?
Quote
Round up people like cattle? I never said that
Oh, yeah. Deportation of ALL muslims, thats the phrase that makes it different. My bad.
Quote
And, I don't intend to be forced to wear a bhurka
And of course deporting everyone that has a religious belief different than you is embracing liberty and justice for all.
Yeah........
Quote from: Molly on October 29, 2008, 07:22:10 AM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on October 29, 2008, 07:20:46 AM
None of that is an excuse to round up and deport muslims in the United States for the sole reason of their religious beliefs.
Because the very criteria that would allow that, could make you next.
This is Judeo/Christian values? Then I renounce them.
Not deport citizens. It's too late to do that. But deport all non citizens, and not just muslims. All.
And close our borders.
You stated your vote for Tony, he wants to deport all muslims and he doesn't care if they are citizens or not.
And as many muslims that are already here legally, keeping them here contradicts your whole argument for not wanting them here.
QuoteHave you ever read the Bible where God kills people and gives his children the right to Judge others?
Let's be clear. No where does the New Testament give Christians the right to kill anyone, much less order them to do it, much less promise them rewards if they do it.
Whether Christians actually follow the royal commandments of their Saviour is another question.
QuoteYou stated your vote for Tony, he wants to deport all muslims and he doesn't care if they are citizens or not.
And as many muslims that are already here legally, keeping them here contradicts your whole argument for not wanting them here.
Tony didn't say that, either. If they are citizens, they have taken an oath to our Constitution, which is in direct contradiction to their religion, so I'm not really sure how that would work.
Nevertheless, we have a big problem in that our liberty is hanging by a thread, so we need to restore our liberty and deport illegal aliens and close our borders.
Or, we could leak like a sieve and shut down all our liberties--how's that working for you?
Quote from: Molly on October 29, 2008, 07:51:15 AM
Let's be clear. No where does the New Testament give Christians the right to kill anyone, much less order them to do it, much less promise them rewards if they do it.
Lets be clear, that is your intepretation and if you actually studied islam like you imply, you would realize the terrorists are intepreting the koran differently than most muslims that live in the united states do. And I'm not arguing about theocratic countries. And saying the "new testament"???? The whole bible could be interperted to give Christians that right and it has.
Quote
Tony didn't say that, either.
ok, Tony, Clarify, because I get the impression your willing to see all Muslims deported citizen or not.
Quote
Nevertheless, we have a big problem in that our liberty is hanging by a thread, so we need to restore our liberty and deport illegal aliens and close our borders.
Not against closing the borders to illegals, never once said I wasn't. Deporting all illegals that are here now is fiscally impossible and will do more harm than good trying.
Quote
Or, we could leak like a sieve and shut down all our liberties--how's that working for you?
Whats working is the freedom in this country despite the problems. Whats not working is the hidden hope that certain people are infringed upon because they believe differently before they do anything or are known to be planning anything criminal.
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on October 29, 2008, 07:08:40 AM
There are muslims in this country now, and they live as americans, practice their faith that is not the interpretation of the koran to kill people and "assimilate" just fine. The majority of them do that now.
It is the fear that they are just waiting for the call to rise up against everyone. You will never make this country better by living in that fear. How terribly wrong.
The above by Paul is very naive.
The CIA did a study on Muslims.
Frightening Statistics
THIS IS AN EXCELLENT AND SHORT SYNOPSIS OF ISLAM AND HOW IT WORKS.
Islam is not a religion nor is it a cult. It is a complete system.
Islam has religious, legal, political, economic and military components.
The religious component is a beard for all the other components.
Islamization occurs when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their so-called 'religious rights.'
When politically correct and culturally diverse societies agree to 'the reasonable' Muslim demands for their 'religious rights,' they also get the other components under the table. Here's how it works (percentages source CIA: The World Fact Book (2007)).
As long as the Muslim population remains around 1% of any given country they will be regarded as a peace-loving minority and not as a threat to anyone. In fact, they may be featured in articles and films, stereotyped for their colorful uniqueness:
United States -- Muslim 1.0%
Australia -- Muslim 1.5%
Canada -- Muslim 1.9%
China -- Muslim 1%-2%
Italy -- Muslim 1.5%
Norway -- Muslim 1.8%
At 2% and 3% they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs:
Denmark -- Muslim 2%
Germany -- Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%
Spain -- Muslim 4%
Thailand -- Muslim 4.6%
From 5% on they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population.
They will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature it on their shelves -- along with threats for failure to comply. (United States).
France -- Muslim 8%
Philippines -- Muslim 5%
Sweden -- Muslim 5%
Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad &Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%
At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islam is not to convert the world but to establish Sharia law over the entire world.
When Muslims reach 10% of the population, they will increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions (Paris -- car-burnings).
Any non-Muslim action that offends Islam will result in uprisings and threats (Amsterdam -- Mohammed cartoons).
Guyana -- Muslim 10%
India -- Muslim 13.4%
Israel -- Muslim 16%
Kenya -- Muslim 10%
Russia -- Muslim 10-15%
After reaching 20% expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings and church and synagogue burning:
Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%
At 40% you will find widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks and ongoing militia warfare:
Bosnia -- Muslim 40%
Chad -- Muslim 53.1%
Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7%
From 60% you may expect unfettered persecution of non-believers and other religions, sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels:
Albania -- Muslim 70%
Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4%
Qatar -- Muslim 77.5%
Sudan -- Muslim 70%
After 80% expect State run ethnic cleansing and genocide:
Bangladesh -- Muslim 83%
Egypt -- Muslim 90%
Gaza -- Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1%
Iran -- Muslim 98%
Iraq -- Muslim 97%
Jordan -- Muslim 92%
Morocco -- Muslim 98.7%
Pakistan -- Muslim 97%
Palestine -- Muslim 99%
Syria -- Muslim 90%
Tajikistan -- Muslim 90%
Turkey -- Muslim 99.8%
United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96%
100% will usher in the peace of 'Dar-es-Salaam' -- the Islamic House of Peace -- there's supposed to be peace because everybody is a Muslim:
Afghanistan -- Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100%
Somalia -- Muslim 100%
Yemen -- Muslim 99.9%
Of course, that's not the case. To satisfy their blood lust, Muslims then start killing each other for a variety of reasons.
'Before I was nine I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; and the tribe against the world and all of us against the infidel. -- Leon Uris,
'The Haj'
It is good to remember that in many, many countries, such as France, the Muslim populations are centered around ghettos based on their ethnicity.
Muslims do not integrate into the community at large. Therefore, they exercise more power than their national average would indicate.
Adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond's book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat..
www.frontline.org.za/books_videos/sti.htm
<http://www.frontline.org.za/books_videos/sti.htm>
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on October 28, 2008, 09:29:42 PM
So Gabe, explain what you do to stand up to the muslims you are talking about. Leave a forum post?
Nope, it looks like you are more qualified to do
only that with your 1628 posts. Most of which appear to be argueing with others.
Quote from: Gabe Grinstead on October 29, 2008, 02:34:54 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on October 28, 2008, 09:29:42 PM
So Gabe, explain what you do to stand up to the muslims you are talking about. Leave a forum post?
Nope, it looks like you are more qualified to do only that with your 1628 posts. Most of which appear to be argueing with others.
So what do you do then?
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on October 29, 2008, 02:39:04 PM
Quote from: Gabe Grinstead on October 29, 2008, 02:34:54 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on October 28, 2008, 09:29:42 PM
So Gabe, explain what you do to stand up to the muslims you are talking about. Leave a forum post?
Nope, it looks like you are more qualified to do only that with your 1628 posts. Most of which appear to be argueing with others.
So what do you do then?
I work on computers. You?
Quote from: Gabe Grinstead on October 29, 2008, 02:44:11 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on October 29, 2008, 02:39:04 PM
Quote from: Gabe Grinstead on October 29, 2008, 02:34:54 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on October 28, 2008, 09:29:42 PM
So Gabe, explain what you do to stand up to the muslims you are talking about. Leave a forum post?
Nope, it looks like you are more qualified to do only that with your 1628 posts. Most of which appear to be argueing with others.
So what do you do then?
I work on computers. You?
Read posts that dodge the issue.
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on October 29, 2008, 02:45:44 PM
Quote from: Gabe Grinstead on October 29, 2008, 02:44:11 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on October 29, 2008, 02:39:04 PM
Quote from: Gabe Grinstead on October 29, 2008, 02:34:54 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on October 28, 2008, 09:29:42 PM
So Gabe, explain what you do to stand up to the muslims you are talking about. Leave a forum post?
Nope, it looks like you are more qualified to do only that with your 1628 posts. Most of which appear to be argueing with others.
So what do you do then?
I work on computers. You?
Read posts that dodge the issue.
You get paid for that?
Quote from: Tony N on October 29, 2008, 02:30:26 PM
The above by Paul is very naive.
The CIA did a study on Muslims.
Frightening Statistics
No, your spending more time trying to backpedal on stating what you really want to happen. The focus is all wrong. The focus is trying to prevent muslims from being here when it should be to keep religious entitlements from being supported by the government.
Now, whats the problem mainly? The seed has already been planted by Christians, trying to get prayer in school, trying to remove evolutionary theory from science class and teach creation, illegalizing abortion based upon issues of morality rather than proving the basis of life being the more important issue to determine the law over it.
Right now the foot hold muslims could get has to do with the legal system and our government favoring issues on the basis of religious morality rather than reason.
We have state funded christian prison ministries and since that is there we have to allow a state funded muslim one too. Of course thats one of the compromises Christians "live" with so that they can be there, funded by government dollars.
You want to close a border, there is good one too . If the Christians are allowed to take their religious grievances before the courts in this country that have nothing to do with "personal" religious freedom, then you cannot tell muslims they cannot.
Yes, indeed, shut that border down.
The CIA figure all that in too?
Quote from: Gabe Grinstead on October 29, 2008, 02:46:56 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on October 29, 2008, 02:45:44 PM
Quote from: Gabe Grinstead on October 29, 2008, 02:44:11 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on October 29, 2008, 02:39:04 PM
Quote from: Gabe Grinstead on October 29, 2008, 02:34:54 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on October 28, 2008, 09:29:42 PM
So Gabe, explain what you do to stand up to the muslims you are talking about. Leave a forum post?
Nope, it looks like you are more qualified to do only that with your 1628 posts. Most of which appear to be argueing with others.
So what do you do then?
I work on computers. You?
Read posts that dodge the issue.
You get paid for that?
I'm working on that part of it. :laughing7:
There also has been an unintended consequense too. You get a sympathetic liberal political base in this country that has beenf ueled by the fundamental christians as well. Years and years of preaching that mulsims are evil and they are all going to hell.
While some of the comments in this thread trying to show that indeed the fundamentalists are right about muslims, what happens is that when the legal and political system has to fight the christians over gay marriage, fight them over excersizing their wish to be the dominant religious factor in the United States thay have caused a sympathetic root to be taken for the muslim cause.
So when we want to factor in all the dangers, you had better have all the facts and all the perspectives before you start calling someone niave and think your argument is sound.
The danger is that the stage is set for the muslim religious cause to be sympathized over. It isn't the average hard working american that doesn't see his muslim neighbor as a threat that is causing that. It is Christians showing their contempt over anyone who doesn't believe and do the things thay do that has allowed that root to be taken.
So when you prop up Christian values and something you want in this country, be careful what your actually supporting.
Quote from: TonyIslam is not a religion nor is it a cult. It is a complete system.
At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves under Sharia, the Islamic Law.The ultimate goal of Islam is not to convert the world but to establish Sharia law over the entire world.
There you go. It is a totalitarian system of governing people masquerading as a religion. And, It is the complete opposite of our system.
Unfortunately, Americans have become very stupid and somehow think no matter what they do, including wiping out their Bill of Rights, they will always have freedom.
What made Americans this stupid and blind? I really don't know for sure, maybe Tony has some ideas. But, I suspect it is because they no longer know Jesus. We are in a Christian dark ages right now, thanks to the diluting and secularization of our culture. And thanks to the systematic destruction of our educational system.
We are hanging by a thread. That's my opinion. Liberty cannot be maintained by a stupid, indulgent, and immoral people.
Great article, Tony. I'm still voting for you.
Paul, the report I posted about how Muslims take over neighborhoods then towns then cities then states then countries was not from a Christian. It was from the CIA.
If a person came into our country with a new disease that, if left unchecked, would wipe out our country, do you think we should allow this person in anyway so we don't hurt his feelings, even if he is Muslim?
It's a matter of national security. It is not a matter of Christians against Islam. It is about the American way of life where people of all religions can enjoy freedom against the Islamic way of life which only allows enforces one religion with no freedom.
Quote from: Molly on October 29, 2008, 04:36:07 PM
We are hanging by a thread. That's my opinion. Liberty cannot be maintained by a stupid, indulgent, and immoral people.
Great article, Tony. I'm still voting for you.
Your whole point of view is made moot if its ok for you to want mulsims here legally.
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on October 29, 2008, 04:49:48 PM
Quote from: Molly on October 29, 2008, 04:36:07 PM
We are hanging by a thread. That's my opinion. Liberty cannot be maintained by a stupid, indulgent, and immoral people.
Great article, Tony. I'm still voting for you.
Your whole point of view is made moot if its ok for you to want mulsims here legally.
I want it to stop. Do you understand that? Stop with the open borders. Deport all illegals. Give us back our Bill of Rights.
The so called 911 muslims were here on visas. They were not citizens. They were guests.
Quote from: Tony N on October 29, 2008, 04:40:13 PM
Paul, the report I posted about how Muslims take over neighborhoods then towns then cities then states then countries was not from a Christian. It was from the CIA.
If a person came into our country with a new disease that, if left unchecked, would wipe out our country, do you think we should allow this person in anyway so we don't hurt his feelings, even if he is Muslim?
It's a matter of national security. It is not a matter of Christians against Islam. It is about the American way of life where people of all religions can enjoy freedom against the Islamic way of life which only allows one religion with no freedom.
So, state for the record and for Molly.......
Do you want to round up and deport muslims in the United States no matter what their legal citizenship is?
Quote from: Molly on October 29, 2008, 04:53:01 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on October 29, 2008, 04:49:48 PM
Quote from: Molly on October 29, 2008, 04:36:07 PM
We are hanging by a thread. That's my opinion. Liberty cannot be maintained by a stupid, indulgent, and immoral people.
Great article, Tony. I'm still voting for you.
Your whole point of view is made moot if its ok for you to want mulsims here legally.
I want it to stop. Do you understand that? Stop with the open borders. Deport all illegals. Give us back our Bill of Rights.
The so called 911 muslims were here on visas. They were not citizens. They were guests.
If your concenred about what the muslims believe in and you believe that muslims being in this country is a threat, then there are enough legal muslims that you will not deport that your argument to deport muslims to stop anything is moot.
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on October 29, 2008, 04:59:59 PM
Quote from: Molly on October 29, 2008, 04:53:01 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on October 29, 2008, 04:49:48 PM
Quote from: Molly on October 29, 2008, 04:36:07 PM
We are hanging by a thread. That's my opinion. Liberty cannot be maintained by a stupid, indulgent, and immoral people.
Great article, Tony. I'm still voting for you.
Your whole point of view is made moot if its ok for you to want mulsims here legally.
I want it to stop. Do you understand that? Stop with the open borders. Deport all illegals. Give us back our Bill of Rights.
The so called 911 muslims were here on visas. They were not citizens. They were guests.
If your concenred about what the muslims believe in and you believe that muslims being in this country is a threat, then there are enough legal muslims that you will not deport that your argument to deport muslims to stop anything is moot.
It's not moot. Why don't you take a look at what has happened in Europe where they have allowed huge numbers of muslims to enter their countries unfettered? They are in a crisis right now which they may not recover from with any sort of freedom resembling ours. Good grief. They are even fighting over whether to allow sharia law in their courts. As IF that should even be a question.
Meanwhile, the same thing is going on here because we are supposedly so 'afraid' of a group that we allow to enter our borders freely.
Liberty is hanging by a thread. Wake up.
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on October 29, 2008, 04:57:51 PM
Quote from: Tony N on October 29, 2008, 04:40:13 PM
Paul, the report I posted about how Muslims take over neighborhoods then towns then cities then states then countries was not from a Christian. It was from the CIA.
If a person came into our country with a new disease that, if left unchecked, would wipe out our country, do you think we should allow this person in anyway so we don't hurt his feelings, even if he is Muslim?
It's a matter of national security. It is not a matter of Christians against Islam. It is about the American way of life where people of all religions can enjoy freedom against the Islamic way of life which only allows one religion with no freedom.
So, state for the record and for Molly.......
Do you want to round up and deport muslims in the United States no matter what their legal citizenship is?
Would you do that with a cancer in your body? Or would you feel sorry for the cancer and let it run its course?
Do you want to leave them here, keep importing them, let them take over the United States and then let them kill off all who do not suscribe to their cult?
Hi Guys, :icon_flower:
Please dont think im trying to kill the art of conversation, But where is this thread leading ?
Is this( Tent) Really the Place to discuss our political Veiws?
Taffy
Quote from: Tony N on October 29, 2008, 05:07:03 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on October 29, 2008, 04:57:51 PM
Quote from: Tony N on October 29, 2008, 04:40:13 PM
Paul, the report I posted about how Muslims take over neighborhoods then towns then cities then states then countries was not from a Christian. It was from the CIA.
If a person came into our country with a new disease that, if left unchecked, would wipe out our country, do you think we should allow this person in anyway so we don't hurt his feelings, even if he is Muslim?
It's a matter of national security. It is not a matter of Christians against Islam. It is about the American way of life where people of all religions can enjoy freedom against the Islamic way of life which only allows one religion with no freedom.
So, state for the record and for Molly.......
Do you want to round up and deport muslims in the United States no matter what their legal citizenship is?
Would you do that with a cancer in your body? Or would you feel sorry for the cancer and let it run its course?
Do you want to leave them here, keep importing them, let them take over the United States and then let them kill off all who do not suscribe to their cult?
Your convoluting what I have said to still try to minimize what you want to do.
In another thread I am for closing the borders to do the best we can to minimize the flow of illegals, I am not for closing the borders to immigrants if they go through the normal process to get into this country.
You Tony, want to deport muslims already here and have legal citizenship and you do not care how they have lived their lives whether they have broken laws and you want to lecture people on FREEDOM.
That ideology is the cancer, but I won't deport you, because the very principals that allow you the freedom to be here and write this is the very freedoms your point of view will destroy.
Molly, this issue doesn't hinge on whether you and I or tony agree, but do you still think Tony doesn't want to round them all up like cattle no matter what their legal status is?
He is having a hard time coming out and saying it directly but tries to disguise it in reason with questions that only prove thats what he wants to do.
Quote from: Taffy on October 29, 2008, 05:15:57 PM
Hi Guys, :icon_flower:
Please dont think im trying to kill the art of conversation, But where is this thread leading ?
Is this( Tent) Really the Place to discuss our political Veiws?
Taffy
I will go on to other issues, as I know it is getting heated.
Quote from: Taffy on October 29, 2008, 05:15:57 PM
Hi Guys, :icon_flower:
Please dont think im trying to kill the art of conversation, But where is this thread leading ?
Is this( Tent) Really the Place to discuss our political Veiws?
Taffy
Dear Taffy,
This is the Members Lounge where we can talk about anything.
It doesn't really matter where a conversation is heading in this board. We just like to kick around some ideas. That's all. It's just a friendly way of fellowshipping over other issues.
Tony
Quote from: Tony N on October 29, 2008, 06:01:49 PM
Quote from: Taffy on October 29, 2008, 05:15:57 PM
Hi Guys, :icon_flower:
Please dont think im trying to kill the art of conversation, But where is this thread leading ?
Is this( Tent) Really the Place to discuss our political Veiws?
Taffy
Dear Taffy,
This is the Members Lounge where we can talk about anything.
It doesn't really matter where a conversation is heading in this board. We just like to kick around some ideas. That's all. It's just a friendly way of fellowshipping over other issues.
Tony
I appreciate your commentS Tony, but the area is a Little more grey than that , striving to maintain a Balance is not easy..just sensed this topic MAY become a Little more heated Bro, By which discussing Politics can often lead too..
Blessings
T
Quote from: Taffy on October 29, 2008, 06:07:06 PM
Quote from: Tony N on October 29, 2008, 06:01:49 PM
Quote from: Taffy on October 29, 2008, 05:15:57 PM
Hi Guys, :icon_flower:
Please dont think im trying to kill the art of conversation, But where is this thread leading ?
Is this( Tent) Really the Place to discuss our political Veiws?
Taffy
Dear Taffy,
This is the Members Lounge where we can talk about anything.
It doesn't really matter where a conversation is heading in this board. We just like to kick around some ideas. That's all. It's just a friendly way of fellowshipping over other issues.
Tony
I appreciate your commentS Tony, but the area is a Little more grey than that , striving to maintain a Balance is not easy..just sensed this topic MAY become a Little more heated Bro, By which discussing Politics can often lead too..
Blessings
T
I understand. People who cannot control their emotions should not post and maybe should not come into the lounge area.
We in the lounge area should not be disciplined just because some people come in here who can't control their emotions.
It's all friendly, at least it is from my perspective.
Blessings to you too.
I'll personally admit that with how heated this war on terrorism is getting globally, that I emotionally lean towards McCarthy era persecution and Herbert Hoover policies on investigations about Muslims that have citizenship here. Emotionally, my concern is for the women, children, heroes, special needs people, and others in this country who don't share the Jihad mentality that I wouldn't wish for them to have to deal with any aspect of this Islamic threat whatsoever. Islam has suspiciously grown in the United States during the time period that it's been hitting the fan especially hard since September 11th, 2001. Emotionally, I'm there because I'm just tired of all of this. And this national issue doesn't look like it's going away anytime in the near future. But my emotions don't take precidence over my intellect and knowing that not everyone who calls himself/herself a Muslim takes it seriously, just like there are lots of people in ET Churches that don't take very much of that very seriously.
And we do live in a country where you're innocent until proven guilty, although the news media warps various aspects of that all of the time for their own self entertaining purposes, sensationalism, ratings, etc. This is a hard issue on all of us because we're tired of the killing on both sides of this issue. This is akin to the abortion issue in that everyone has an opinion and within very very narrow contexts in their own way they're probably all right when you give each perspective it's context and realize that there's a difference between "a" truth and "the" truth and that the greater truth is life and that more abundantly through Jesus Christ for absolutely every life that's ever been conceived in this Creation.
Taffy's right that we've got to make sure that this doesn't get too heated. Ideologies are very difficult to separate from their victims as all of us have experienced in dealing with ET Christians. Each of these people are individuals for whom Christ Jesus is the corresponding ransom. Another thing that can get this conversation heated up if we're not extremely careful is that this is similar to the homosexual issue in that most people know someone that's wonderful, but that happens to prefer..... All other religions are forbidden and condemned by the Bible. Anyone around here that doesn't know that hasn't read through all of it yet. Muslims are not more wicked than Hindus or some tribe somewhere with their own local superstitions, folklore, traditions, and ceremonial rites.
While practically, you can't really separate the person from their religion, by faith that's what the Great Commission and the Ministry of Righteousness and Reconciliation in the New Testament calls us to do. We do have the promise in the book of Revelation that the kingdoms of this world are becoming the kingdoms of God and Christ. We've just got to pray about how each of us can aggressively pursue that without getting sidetracked by the news media, their flippant and economic agendas, and by the histeria that there is over this war on terrorism. They all belong to Jesus Christ and we need to focus on that in our thoughts and in our prayers because He's very interested in how each of them are doing, and He's very interested in destroying the yoke of the devil from their necks and seeing them go free from their deceptions about what God requires.
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on October 29, 2008, 05:21:50 PM
He is having a hard time coming out and saying it directly but tries to disguise it in reason with questions that only prove thats what he wants to do.
Paul, I'm not for deporting the Muslims that are already here. But what if they could choose between staying as a citizen and getting sterilized (including children) or, if they don't want to be sterilized, leaving of their own free will.
Martin, I love the way you think!
Quote from: Tony N on October 29, 2008, 07:37:35 PM
Paul, I'm not for deporting the Muslims that are already here. But what if they could choose between staying as a citizen and getting sterilized (including children) or, if they don't want to be sterilized, leaving of their own free will.
I nearly locked the thread over this comment, but I'm way too curious about where this comment about spaying/neutering all of them is going. :mshock: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Please tell me you're kidding or where you're going with this? China's had the mandatory one child law for a while and that's backfiring with limiting the number of women available for their men. I don't know all of the ins and outs of Muslim theology, but from what I've seen, that would probably be about as katanthema to them as contraception has historically been to Catholics.
Quote from: Tony N on October 29, 2008, 07:37:35 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on October 29, 2008, 05:21:50 PM
He is having a hard time coming out and saying it directly but tries to disguise it in reason with questions that only prove thats what he wants to do.
Paul, I'm not for deporting the Muslims that are already here. But what if they could choose between staying as a citizen and getting sterilized (including children) or, if they don't want to be sterilized, leaving of their own free will.
I don't think that would be fair to make them leave or be sterilized. The birth rate in the states is pathetically low in reality. Too many people don't want anything to do with children. We honestly don't need Muslims to destroy this country, because we are doing it by either not having children, or killing the ones we have. The only reason the birth rate is anywhere 2.0 in the country, is because of different ethnic groups who still believe that having children is a good thing. White folk in general have low birth rates for this country and view children as a burden. The Asian Community where I live has the highest birth rate. Most families have at least 5 children and some all the way up to the teens! Welcome the children.
Quote from: Tony N on October 29, 2008, 07:37:35 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on October 29, 2008, 05:21:50 PM
He is having a hard time coming out and saying it directly but tries to disguise it in reason with questions that only prove thats what he wants to do.
Paul, I'm not for deporting the Muslims that are already here. But what if they could choose between staying as a citizen and getting sterilized (including children) or, if they don't want to be sterilized, leaving of their own free will.
:sigh:
Sure you are, you just said it again, but you think that your scenarios hide what you really want to do.
Not only are you proposing an unconstitutional scenario, your wanting to set the stage so that deporting them would become the result of a catch 22.
Your scenario pretty much gaurantees their deportation and you know it. You also know how unconstitutional all that is.
What you propose goes against the very fabric of what this country was founded on.
Your shock value is losing it's appeal Tony. :beerburp:
But it might be interesting to know if Molly will still Vote for Tony. :happy3:
Quote from: martincisneros on October 29, 2008, 07:49:32 PM
Quote from: Tony N on October 29, 2008, 07:37:35 PM
Paul, I'm not for deporting the Muslims that are already here. But what if they could choose between staying as a citizen and getting sterilized (including children) or, if they don't want to be sterilized, leaving of their own free will.
I nearly locked the thread over this comment, but I'm way too curious about where this comment about spaying/neutering all of them is going. :mshock: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Please tell me you're kidding or where you're going with this? China's had the mandatory one child law for a while and that's backfiring with limiting the number of women available for their men. I don't know all of the ins and outs of Muslim theology, but from what I've seen, that would probably be about as katanthema to them as contraception has historically been to Catholics.
Dear Martin,
This is on the door to the Members Lounge:
Member's Lounge
Discuss absolutely anything here. Maybe you mean: Discuss only what passes for Martin's desires?
It was not meant to be taken as "This is what I would do." It is a question. It is a "what if" question.
Hi Guys
Ya know Im a Brit, and I really dont give two hoots to who elected in....ya presidents that is...ya history STINKS of corruption, double standards and the like...Tricky Dicky and that other..Ive never had SEX with THAT WOMEN...and that the tip..
Unlike most American , Brits at least take interest outside their own country,,,,because we all KNOW "AMERICA IS THE centre of the universe..... :laughing7:
well anyway...
What you propose goes against the very fabric of what this country was founded on.
yup, the LAND of the SO CALL FREE.....how quick you forget your the Melting POT of the WORLD....,..
ya make me laugh guys...
it matters not a HOOT what you think or say....Money is POWER, and thats what makes this WORLD GO AROUND.
anyways back to tiddle winks..its far more interesting and enjoyable...it for sure ,doesnt make the Pulse beat harder either..therefore good for the """heart""""..
enjoy.
Quote from: Tony N on October 29, 2008, 08:10:12 PM
Quote from: martincisneros on October 29, 2008, 07:49:32 PM
Quote from: Tony N on October 29, 2008, 07:37:35 PM
Paul, I'm not for deporting the Muslims that are already here. But what if they could choose between staying as a citizen and getting sterilized (including children) or, if they don't want to be sterilized, leaving of their own free will.
I nearly locked the thread over this comment, but I'm way too curious about where this comment about spaying/neutering all of them is going. :mshock: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Please tell me you're kidding or where you're going with this? China's had the mandatory one child law for a while and that's backfiring with limiting the number of women available for their men. I don't know all of the ins and outs of Muslim theology, but from what I've seen, that would probably be about as katanthema to them as contraception has historically been to Catholics.
Dear Martin,
This is on the door to the Members Lounge:
Member's Lounge
Discuss absolutely anything here.
Maybe you mean: Discuss only what passes for Martin's desires?
It was not meant to be taken as "This is what I would do." It is a question. It is a "what if" question.
Ill answer this first..
The guidelines Tony have changed since the appointment of Martin....
Whats really allowed to be discussed ,is by HE who was appointed ADMIN,...on behalf of Gary...
if you wernt here back in May you would be at a Disadvantage not knowing such guidelines have changed..I did MENTION GREY AREA....
None hear wants to be spiritual Police Tony.if I ever thought Tent endorsed that Id be off...., but keeping a Happy Balanced Platform is not easy Bro ...and for sure no one gets its right all the time, so bear with us.....
Im sure Martim May offer some finer Detail to this post to give you a greater understanding .
T
Hi Taffy! G'day!
Do you live in England?
When I was over there you were being overrun with Muslims.
Has your way of life changed any?
On the door of the Members Lounge it says we can discuss absolutely anything in here. But I just noticed . . .
I am copy and pasting this from the sign after you get through the door to the Members lounge:
Purpose of this Board
« on: May 18, 2008, 08:39:53 PM »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greetings fellow Tentmakers
This is the area where you can discuss almost anything on your mind that's fellowship related.
Blessings in Christ
I thought I'd underline the word "almost" above.
Maybe there needs to be a list as to what is not allowed?
I just think we are all mature enough here that we can discuss things in a kind, unheated way without threat of being treated like little kiddies and getting locked down.
I believe it is important to fellowship around things that affect our daily lives. The cult of Islam affects all of us and in the near future will even more so.
Just my thoughts. Maybe people just would rather talk about gardening or needlecraft or kite making in here. That's fine with me too.
Quote from: Tony N on October 29, 2008, 08:10:12 PM
It was not meant to be taken as "This is what I would do." It is a question. It is a "what if" question.
I still had to ask because of the people around here that I know of that would have FREAKED over that. Plus, I got half a dozen long winded PMs the other day from someone that mistakenly thought that I wasn't paying attention to something else that was going on on another thread. I could be gone for a week and the boards get the busiest that they've ever been, and I'd still be caught up within 30 minutes on what's been going on while I was gone. Also, we've got half a dozen teenagers that login 3 to 5 times a month. So, for their sake and for the sake of newbies, that don't know any of us, I like for potentially controversial comments to have a follow up comment to clarify. I already know that you weren't reaching for a razor while asking me to get the knock out gas and the pain killers, while asking Paul and everybody else to round 'em up and tie them down 'cause we're falling behind and there's too many of 'em for us not to have started yesterday! :icon_jokercolor:
On the hypothetical of what you were saying:
1). It would require an act of Congress;
2). It would be an excuse to raise taxes;
3). It would cause a legislative nightmare on defining what exactly is a Muslim, whether it's a creedal statement or anyone from the middle east that's not Jewish, or.... It would be a total nightmare for the lawyers, judges, spin doctors, lobbyists, and the court appointed doctors that would have to carry out quotas to get their pay for it;
4). It would smack of religious and ethnic cleansing and the United Nations would want to prosecute the whole country for crimes against humanity;
5). We'd all have to endure the really lousy Saturday Night Live and Simpsons episodes that would come out of this;
6). Not far behind would be the British comedy spoofs on our having passed that kind of legislation;
7). Some study somewhere would conclude that Muslims were the cure to diabetes, breast cancer, or aids, and the political lobbying would begin for funding for more studies on that;
8). It would take too much time;
9). It would become a campaign issue for the 2012 Presidential election;
10). Atheists, agnostics, deists, hollywood stars, game show hosts, political commentators, commedians, bioethicists, and pro choice people would decide that Christians should be next;
11). It would make right wing Christian fundamentalists way too happy because with fewer Muslims they'd genuinely believe that they were evangelizing the world;
12). Christians and Jews in Muslim countries would be forced to endure the same kind of sterilization, and probably without anything for the pain;
13). It would lead to further global warming and pollution of our trash land fills;
14). Really bad movies would come out about it;
15). It would cause a moral dilema for ET Christianity because fewer people would be going to Hell BY THEIR OWN CHOICE so that some of them will think that perhaps they should cut down on evangelism and the printing of Bibles in order to protect people's free will;
16). It would ruin years of political correctness;
17). We'd have to explain it to posterity without sounding like Nazis;
18). It would effect trade, tourism, and might cost us Middle Eastern Oil;
19). The Islamic religion might get mad at us;
20). Someone somewhere would make a financial killing off of it.
Quote from: Tony N on October 29, 2008, 08:41:28 PM
Hi Taffy! G'day!
Do you live in England?
When I was over there you were being overrun with Muslims.
Has your way of life changed any?
On the door of the Members Lounge it says we can discuss absolutely anything in here. But I just noticed . . .
I am copy and pasting this from the sign after you get through the door to the Members lounge:
Purpose of this Board
« on: May 18, 2008, 08:39:53 PM »
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Greetings fellow Tentmakers
This is the area where you can discuss almost anything on your mind that's fellowship related.
Blessings in Christ
I thought I'd underline the word "almost" above.
Maybe there needs to be a list as to what is not allowed?
I just think we are all mature enough here that we can discuss things in a kind, unheated way without threat of being treated like little kiddies and getting locked down.
I believe it is important to fellowship around things that affect our daily lives. The cult of Islam affects all of us and in the near future will even more so.
Just my thoughts. Maybe people just would rather talk about gardening or needlecraft or kite making in here. That's fine with me too.
YA see Tony, its generally Known here the ignorance of many state side....MANY BEING BY EXPERIENCE THE most actually think ENGLAND consists of the Countries which make up the Great Britain...Scotland Is Not England, neither is WALES, and say to the Irish They are..youll TO likely get SHOT :laughing7:
For the Record T, Im Welsh....but married a las from England and thats the country we know dwell in.
anyway nough Jibber.
Gsh T,..d you realise the SUN NEVER SET of the OLD British empire..do you Know what that means?...lets start there and well move n to your question of Muslims...later...you need to KNOW OUR history....and Ill take a shot in the DARK here....ya dont know much.
I did see you look up ""the purpose of this board prior to you posting T,..
let me do My utmost to explain...First and foremost ,I too detest being treated Like a Kiddie,...maybe ya miss the real point bro, because for sure, for mine at least, tis not the manner to why I post as MOD.....
The ongoing changes..and I say Ongoing are still being made, Martin took over from Bernie and basically put his name to what B laid down before....which I agree, may mislead any newbies to take literally what they read..so on that account we err.....
so, No one is blaming you for stepping outside the guidelines, but for now at leaSt, until things are re written, that which is allowed to be discussed ,is purely to Ms discretion.....
To be Honest T, im in the same boat as you
Hope this explains.
T
I haven't felt the need to do a major re-write of things because although some of the forum rules about unacceptable behaviour could use some clarification 'cause a couple of folks went into temporary exile and felt they were unfairly sensored over it. But to me it was as simple as not grading their content, but their attitude and treatment of others. Because both incidents, if I remember correctly, happened on the Apologetics board, somehow they were under the mistaken impression that being abusive was fine. But there's a difference between apologetic support and abusive debating, and one of the last things that Bernie did before he left admin'ing the boards was to trash the debate board because Gary had indicated to him that this wasn't the place to have debates any more.
I've spent some time on the phone with Gary a couple of times since the big changes around here started happening and my understanding of his wishes are that the Scriptures be held in higher esteem than they were for a while around here, that we avoid textual criticism (which I realize is a gray area while still having the Bible Threatenings Explained and Apologetics boards), that the place be UR and fellowship focused, and that we dodge the theological land mines that produced months and months of contention, wounded consciences, endless offenses, etc. My best way of wording/paraphrasing the avoid textual criticism change around here is to remain conservative evangelical friendly. I had another phrase for it sometime back, but I'll have to look through my sent PMs for the actual wording that I had back then. In other words, our studies are to be centered within the Scriptures and not about the veracity of the Scriptures themselves, as far as whether all of the books in the canon are inspired and a hundred other similar things that would cause more heat around here than they're worth.
As long as there's healthy, ongoing discussion of UR around here for both the development of our understandings and to help people with Christian backgrounds to understand the Biblical basis for the Larger Hope, and as long as the Scriptures are held in high esteem, and we avoid getting offended at each other, I haven't really cared too deeply about what we talk about around here. I've been a whole lot easier to get along with than some of the people that have gotten offended have thought. Stoning the Bible won't fly around me and just keep it edifying, encouraging, and nurturing and I genuinely don't care if what's in the category of "fellowship conversations" wanders into dream interpretation, UFOs, Barack Obama, or whatever.
But we've got a long history of already knowing that wandering into conversations about the trinity, mainstream Christian ministers that are on television, and what other topics usually get on the heated side. Basically, anything that's going to get heated is where we need to draw a firm line. Unfortunately, there's a certain amount of "play it by ear" rather than being able to be iron clad about which topics to sensor, because your crowd around here changes every once in a while, and what I've mainly been doing about that is letting topics get started and if people couldn't handle going there, then we've simply locked 'em. To me, that's easier than having a list of don't go there and don't go there because inevitably you wind up getting asked about 50 different gray areas on where such and such could relate to UR if approached from a certain angle. So, my attitude has basically been to just go for it and if our present crowd can't handle it, then we just lock the topic, and/or delete particularly offending posts, and move on.
To me, 50% of it is about staying out of strife and abusive comments while holding the Scriptures in high regard, and the rest is to keep sharpening our understanding and application of the truths of UR in WHATEVER we talk about. I don't care if we spend 50 pages of a thread on the man in the moon as long as the Scriptures aren't trashed as something that's allegedly adulterating anyone's relationship with God, and as long as the Victorious Gospel of the Saviour of all of Creation really clarifies in our understanding along the way. As long as that's observed and there's no internet bar fights, I really don't care what a thread's about.
I prefer that people that are alive somewhere in the world not be villified because you never know who's where on the internet and when they're there. We don't know the face behind every username on the boards and I don't believe in needlessly offending friends, family, and specific individuals that are well known on the presumption that our opinions about them are 100% correct when you just never know at what stage people are at in the Holy Spirit's work in their lives. To me, that's just a common sense thing if you genuinely believe that the Lord's doing anything at all with this message.
If we simply behaved like Christians, most of the things that I'd ever fuss about are self evident. Assume that the Holy Spirit is at work and that Jesus Christ is actually victorious. What could be simpler?
As far as my name on all of the former board rules, Bernie was getting pretty heated over Gary taking forever to appoint a new admin and had basically threatened to not only close out his account but to delete all of his old posts as well, so I quickly did the copy/pastes into new pages of all of the rules so that if Gary was fine with Bernie's suggestion of my being a suitable candidate to take over so that Gary's redirection of the boards would more easily happen, then at least I wouldn't be stuck with not having all of that older stuff to refer to, to at least know as much as the moderators around here knew. I'd never been a moderator previous to it coming up about my taking over for Bernie, so my knowledge of the rules/procedures around here was really sketchy. I very very seldom ever came to these boards with a chip on my shoulders, something to prove, or someone to jab, so I'd never even had anything said to me by a moderator about my conduct or about the Forum rules in the whole time I'd been at the boards since 2001, minus the length of time that Gary had his sabbatical from having a forum a while back. I'm not sure if I'd ever even started any threads before the last year and a half or so. I usually came in with my :2c: for a few posts and then would vanish for months at a time with everything else that I've been doing. And when the Holy Spirit indicated to be here, then I'd be here for a few more posts, etc.
Besides being edified by some of my posts, Bernie's main idea in suggesting that I take over was because I had my own website so he figured I was friendly enough with computers to be able to figure everything out with the boards. And he was right. I've got most of the settings and where is what on the "behind the scenes" stuff figured out. But as far as a general re-write of the rules around here, I've been clueless about where to begin. All I've known to do is to try to clarify our direction and where I'm coming from each step of the way when it's come up. When I first took over, it was a shock to the system of some people. Some people thought I was coming in with a religious Eliot Ness routine and was shutting down all that I didn't agree with. Gary got a really choicely worded email about me right around that time that I personally think he probably found funny as hell 'cause it at least meant that attempts were being made to get things back on the course that he desired for the forum. But to me, the changes have been far simpler than some people have made them out to be. Some people obviously just got spoiled with having a Tentmaker Forum that seemed doctrinally neutral and where just about anything went around here. And Gary just got sick of the direction the forum was going in and the emails that he was getting about it. I think that as long as the forum somewhat resembles belonging with the rest of the Tentmaker website, then Gary's going to be happy about it. :Sparkletooth:
Lol love the way you said that Graham !! About America... I laughed till i cried ROFL!! :laughing7:
way to go bro!!!! I am a Patton maiden name a PADDY , IRISH decent and Indian what a combo !! love to drink and cannot handle your booze ha ha ha! i gave that crap up in my twenties or I would not be here today LOL.....
AND FOR THE RECORD I AM STERILE hee hee by choice ..... 3 buggars and that it ... :icon_joker:
carry on now ...............hee hee
Quote from: Taffy on October 29, 2008, 08:15:56 PM
Hi Guys
Ya know Im a Brit, and I really dont give two hoots to who elected in....ya presidents that is...ya history STINKS of corruption, double standards and the like...Tricky Dicky and that other..Ive never had SEX with THAT WOMEN...and that the tip..
Unlike most American , Brits at least take interest outside their own country,,,,because we all KNOW "AMERICA IS THE centre of the universe..... :laughing7:
well anyway...
What you propose goes against the very fabric of what this country was founded on.
yup, the LAND of the SO CALL FREE.....how quick you forget your the Melting POT of the WORLD....,..
ya make me laugh guys...
it matters not a HOOT what you think or say....Money is POWER, and thats what makes this WORLD GO AROUND.
anyways back to tiddle winks..its far more interesting and enjoyable...it for sure ,doesnt make the Pulse beat harder either..therefore good for the """heart""""..
enjoy.
Sometimes I think you guys should get a consolation prize for failing to beat us into submission. :laughing7: I Care!!!!!
Quote from: rosered on October 29, 2008, 10:30:57 PM
Lol love the way you said that Graham !! About America... I laughed till i cried ROFL!! :laughing7:
way to go bro!!!! I am a Patton maiden name a PADDY , IRISH decent and Indian what a combo !! love to drink and cannot handle your booze ha ha ha! i gave that crap up in my twenties or I would not be here today LOL.....
AND FOR THE RECORD I AM STERILE hee hee by choice ..... 3 buggars and that it ... :icon_joker:
carry on now ...............hee hee
Gee sis..I knew you were part Irish..but not indian..what Tribe would that be kiddo..west Indian,,,he ha,?..yous a Mix..yehaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Unclean Unclean...im on ROFL.....
And Yeah..Stay of the "FIRE WATER""""""" make yo go Heap SILLY.....
Thanks for the laugh sis :icon_flower:
QuoteSometimes I think you guys should get a consolation prize for failing to beat us into submission. I Care!!!!!
Nice one Paul.. :laughing7:
of course you do Brud, Its affects YOU and Yours..no more than whos elected in Botswana...the people will be affected too...
The worlds to largel for even a Country the size of America....thats of course ,if you got Binos to see outside your own little Nest...
We ,Western Nations, Capitalize of the usery of the less fortunate.....You KNOW, like the Majority of the population of most so called, Uncivilized countries...
We Live off their slavery...Tis true.
Hope you guys feel better for knowing that...yikes......the price of Gas is disgusting isnt it.
Blessings Bro
T
Quote from: Taffy on October 29, 2008, 11:39:21 PM
Quote from: rosered on October 29, 2008, 10:30:57 PM
Lol love the way you said that Graham !! About America... I laughed till i cried ROFL!! :laughing7:
way to go bro!!!! I am a Patton maiden name a PADDY , IRISH decent and Indian what a combo !! love to drink and cannot handle your booze ha ha ha! i gave that crap up in my twenties or I would not be here today LOL.....
AND FOR THE RECORD I AM STERILE hee hee by choice ..... 3 buggars and that it ... :icon_joker:
carry on now ...............hee hee
Gee sis..I knew you were part Irish..but not indian..what Tribe would that be kiddo..west Indian,,,he ha,?..yous a Mix..yehaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Unclean Unclean...im on ROFL.....
And Yeah..Stay of the "FIRE WATER""""""" make yo go Heap SILLY.....
Thanks for the laugh sis :icon_flower:
Ya got me funny bone today brother Hee hee , yes the fire water ,
I suspect that one of the old Irish lords come over in a big boat here in America offered one of me relatives a a drink of Fire water ,got him heep silly than slaughtered him and stole one of the fine indian gals and that IS How my family in America sprouted and come to be
there is alot of that I am sure :mblush:
I may be spot on , you never Know!!! ... land of the Free hee hee
Quote from: rosered on October 29, 2008, 11:54:16 PM
Quote from: Taffy on October 29, 2008, 11:39:21 PM
Quote from: rosered on October 29, 2008, 10:30:57 PM
Lol love the way you said that Graham !! About America... I laughed till i cried ROFL!! :laughing7:
way to go bro!!!! I am a Patton maiden name a PADDY , IRISH decent and Indian what a combo !! love to drink and cannot handle your booze ha ha ha! i gave that crap up in my twenties or I would not be here today LOL.....
AND FOR THE RECORD I AM STERILE hee hee by choice ..... 3 buggars and that it ... :icon_joker:
carry on now ...............hee hee
Gee sis..I knew you were part Irish..but not indian..what Tribe would that be kiddo..west Indian,,,he ha,?..yous a Mix..yehaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Unclean Unclean...im on ROFL.....
And Yeah..Stay of the "FIRE WATER""""""" make yo go Heap SILLY.....
Thanks for the laugh sis :icon_flower:
Ya got me funny bone today brother Hee hee , yes the fire water ,
I suspect that one of the old Irish lords come over in a big boat here in America offered one of me relatives a a drink of Fire water ,got him heep silly than slaughtered him and stole one of the fine indian gals and that IS How my family in America sprouted and come to be
there is alot of that I am sure :mblush:
I may be spot on , you never Know!!! ... land of the Free hee hee
ya Know sis...ya Might BE JUST THAT...................SPOT ON!!!!!!!!!!!!
DID YA know The Welsh Language is the Most pure ,other than That of Hebrew....
Bara, in Welsh alone, Means Bread.....
Yo Paul
DIdnt mean to bust on you personally bud..but politics is best for those who LIVE IT..
Later bro
:icon_flower:
Quote from: Taffy on October 30, 2008, 12:15:42 AM
Yo Paul
DIdnt mean to bust on you personally bud..but politics is best for those who LIVE IT..
Later bro
:icon_flower:
Not quite sure what you mean there.
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on October 30, 2008, 12:24:02 AM
Quote from: Taffy on October 30, 2008, 12:15:42 AM
Yo Paul
DIdnt mean to bust on you personally bud..but politics is best for those who LIVE IT..
Later bro
:icon_flower:
Not quite sure what you mean there.
I try to be sensitive to others Bro.....And ,as we differ a little culturally,,i didnt mean any offence, if, maybe you took my words directly aimed at you.
:dontknow:
Very pure language Taffy.
To me it sounds some words are made up after some pure drinks. Cheers buddy :thumbsup:
Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch
"St. Mary's Church in the hollow of white hazel near a rapid whirlpool and the Church of St. Tysilio near the red cave."
But still the Welsh come in second (a usual :laughing7:)
Krungthepmahanakornamornratanakosinmahintarayutthayamahadilokphopnop- paratrajathaniburiromudomrajaniwesmahasatharnamornphimarnavatarnsathit- sakkattiyavisanukamprasit.
-Thailand
QuoteBara, in Welsh alone, Means Bread.....
True. in aother languages its means different things :laughing7:
Bara is a not so tasty Surinam snack.
Village in Scotland, Syria and Nepal
Or created in Hebrew.
Quote from: Taffy on October 30, 2008, 12:33:14 AM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on October 30, 2008, 12:24:02 AM
Quote from: Taffy on October 30, 2008, 12:15:42 AM
Yo Paul
DIdnt mean to bust on you personally bud..but politics is best for those who LIVE IT..
Later bro
:icon_flower:
Not quite sure what you mean there.
I try to be sensitive to others Bro.....And ,as we differ a little culturally,,i didnt mean any offence, if, maybe you took my words directly aimed at you.
:dontknow:
Ah, thanks for clarifying, nope, no offense taken, there are no perfect countries, and a wee little citizen like me can only stand up for the direction he'd like to see things go, knowing the reality is usually not.
Quote from: Taffy on October 29, 2008, 08:59:18 PM
Gsh T,..d you realise the SUN NEVER SET of the OLD British empire..do you Know what that means?...
Ra worshippers?
Those where the days. The Netherlands being the New York founding superpower (not to mention Yankees)
And now we are the great unknown of the world.
Taffy wadda think? is it treason we talk with eachother. Our countries where at war almost constantly in teh past. :Shoot: :swordfight:
Rose => :robinhood:
Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch (short form Llanfairpwllgwyngyll), also spelled Llanfair Pwllgwyngyll and commonly known as Llanfair PG or Llanfairpwll, is a village and community on the island of Anglesey in Wales, situated on the Menai Strait next to the Britannia Bridge and across the strait from Bangor.
According to the 2001 census, the population of the community is 3,040,[1] 76% of whom speak Welsh fluently; the highest percentage of speakers is in the 10–14 age group, where 97.1% are able to speak Welsh.[citation needed] It is the fifth largest settlement on the island by population.
Visitors stop at the railway station to be photographed next to the station sign, visit the nearby Visitors' Centre, or have 'passports' stamped at a local shop. Another tourist attraction is the nearby Marquess of Anglesey's Column, which at a height of 27 metres offers views over Anglesey and the Menai Strait. Designed by Thomas Harrison, the monument celebrates the heroism of Henry Paget, 1st Marquess of Anglesey at the Battle of Waterloo.
ah shoot !!! LOL CURIOUS so I looked , ok now I would never pass Kindergarten trying to spell what town I was from ! ha ha ha yeeeehaaa! :wacko2:
Paul Rosie and WW
I got to thankk you guys deeply..this aching body needed a Laugh..and you guys assisted
love ya Bunches.
nite nite
Taffy
Taffy, I love Wales. One of the most beautiful places I've ever seen.
They told me in the pubs there that they never speak English when an Englishman comes in, but they were willing to speak English for me, because I'm an American.
I trust you will, too. :bigGrin:
Quote
the highest percentage of speakers is in the 10–14 age group, where 97.1% are able to speak Welsh
Funny stats Ellen Rimbauer :robinhood:
Basicly it means grow up and forget about Welsh.
Taffy what's your age? :laughing7:
Quote from: Molly on October 30, 2008, 01:59:29 AM
Taffy, I love Wales. One of the most beautiful places I've ever seen.
They told me in the pubs there that they never speak English when an Englishman comes in, but they were willing to speak English for me, because I'm an American.
I trust you will, too. :bigGrin:
He he...Thats so true molly ,especially North Wales, where the majority still speak the native tongue,altho my grandfather originated from the North, when the industrial revolution kicked off ,work was found at the ports , being situated in the south, which has over the years has become More English shall we say,Alas ,in My school days Our native tongue wasnt taught ,french and german were the languages of the day...Welsh is an extremely difficult language to learn...any places here you recognise, nothing in wales is to far away, more than a few of these pics are but on the door step
http://www.stayinwales.co.uk/wales_pictures.cfm
Oh Rosie...
As for that name , also being a Railway station, the name takes longer to pronounce than the train stays at the platform..he ha.
hey WW, I think we will call a Truce , as these days the EMPIRE is no more... :HeartThrob:
:icon_flower:
,
Quote from: WhiteWings on October 30, 2008, 08:48:01 AM
Quote
the highest percentage of speakers is in the 10–14 age group, where 97.1% are able to speak Welsh
Funny stats Ellen Rimbauer :robinhood:
Basicly it means grow up and forget about Welsh.
Taffy what's your age? :laughing7:
well as I was never 10,thats is being Born as SON of faith at 100ys, then I missed me chance bro :laughing7:
Quote from: WhiteWings on October 30, 2008, 12:49:25 AM
Quote from: Taffy on October 29, 2008, 08:59:18 PM
Gsh T,..d you realise the SUN NEVER SET of the OLD British empire..do you Know what that means?...
Ra worshippers?
Those where the days. The Netherlands being the New York founding superpower (not to mention Yankees)
And now we are the great unknown of the world.
Taffy wadda think? is it treason we talk with eachother. Our countries where at war almost constantly in teh past. :Shoot: :swordfight:
you WW.
Den aint canons Bro....you want one like this:-
(http://soleilimg1.free.fr/gifs/objets/armes/arme024.gif)
Starts to look a bit like a game of footy. Brits always having open goal.
Can't resist an open goal...
Quote from: Taffy on October 30, 2008, 11:29:16 AM
well as I was never 10,thats is being Born as SON of faith at 100ys, then I missed me chance bro :laughing7:
Now the meaning of 'believe like a child' is much more clear to me. :laughing7:
WW, is Geert Wilders one of your fellow countrymen? I'm not sure exactly where you live.
If he is, what do you think about him? I just read an interesting speech he gave re: muslims.
Can we all just not get along here?
This is troubling. We are supposed to be fighting and devouring one another, you know. After all, we are Christians you know. :laughing7:
Taffy, Esgusodwch fi, but I think I might have some Welsh blood in me. Don't know if it is Rayburn, Clapham or Trapp. I could be wrong though.
Quote from: Tony N on October 30, 2008, 02:54:42 PM
Can we all just not get along here?
This is troubling. We are supposed to be fighting and devouring one another, you know. After all, we are Christians you know. :laughing7:
Taffy, Esgusodwch fi, but I think I might have some Welsh blood in me. Don't know if it is Rayburn, Clapham or Trapp. I could be wrong though.
I sincerely hope so Tony...a good day to you. :icon_flower:
The closest relative I have come the US, was a Great aunt who married a GI while he was stationed in the UK..she married him, moved to the states after the war and lived in Boston all her days...never did get over to visit.
:icon_flower:
Quote from: Molly on October 30, 2008, 02:32:07 PM
WW, is Geert Wilders one of your fellow countrymen? I'm not sure exactly where you live.
If he is, what do you think about him? I just read an interesting speech he gave re: muslims.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3369102968312745410 is a 'movie' he made.
He got more press coverage than 10 blockbuster Hollwood flicks. For about 8 months there was almost daily some news item about it. The funny thing is he just announced it once and the ball started rolling. The lefties still have high bloodpressure from it. :laughing7:
We have a major problem with criminal marocs here but the politicians refuse to do anything about it. 12+ year old doing street robberies. Non moslims and especially Jews being harassed out of their homes. But that are just incidents according to the politicians. So more money is pumped into it. Clubhouses etc. The most stupid ever project they got a trip to catch butterflies in maroc... Great while old people in ederly homes (don't know the nameof that in English) are rotting away. They often don't get out of bed. Not washed for a week. Costs to much you know.
But when you are a criminal then you get things done.
Protests against it where never allowed because that was discrimination. Some years back the first politician stood up against it. Polls showed his none existing party would grow from 0 to the largest party. Unfortunately he got shot. (by a Dutch)
Now we have Wilders. Loudmouth type Alex Jones. He just doesn't back off. He recieves deathtreats weekly. He has bodyguards 24/7
Likely you know Hirsh Ali. She made a short low budget movie with a cineast 'Theo van Gogh' he got killed by a moslim.
Rightwing is making some progress. But very slowly because immigration is a major industry here. You know lawers, experts, etc. So changes are slow.
Things slowly are reaching a boiling point. The Netherlands is a wealthy country and can solve most problems by money. But by now we are taxed to death I pay over 50% tax of my salary. I payed 20% tax over the PC I'm typing on now. I payed extra eco-tax on the electicty to power my PC. 70% of the gass price is some sort of tax. etc etc. As said things are nearing a boiling point. When the recession hits there won't be any money to fix things.
I've been centre-right (liberal) all my live but I'm more and more forced to make decisions. Get slaughtered? Take law in my own hands? Or vote more right.
Basicly I can vote for methods. Allow more troublemakers to settle here or vote someone that wants to deport them all. The problem is the other politician never will form a coalition with Wilders (not a all or nothing system like in the states) So Wilders needs 50+% of the votes. That is extremely unlikely, not to say it never happened in the whole history. So he will get sidetracked again.
But he will get my vote. If only to stirr up things.
Martin C., you wrote:
Quote from: martincisneros on October 29, 2008, 10:00:39 PM
I've spent some time on the phone with Gary a couple of times since the big changes around here started happening and my understanding of his wishes are that the Scriptures be held in higher esteem than they were for a while around here, that we avoid textual criticism I wonder what you mean by "textual criticism." The classical view is that textual criticism is:
"The method of textual criticism which has been generally practised by editors of classical Greek and Latin texts involves two main processes, recension and emendation. Recension is the selection, after examination of all available material, of the most trustworthy evidence on which to base a text. Emendation is the attempt to eliminate the errors which are found even in the best manuscripts."
Textual cricitism according to a Wikipedia site states:
"Textual criticism (or lower criticism) is a branch of literary criticism that is concerned with the identification and removal of transcription errors in the texts of manuscripts."
Maybe you mean something completely different outside the accepted definition thereof when you say "textual criticism"?
Tony
"Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves are its only safe depositories." - Thomas Jefferson
Here is the speech of Geert Wilders, chairman Party for Freedom, the Netherlands...
America as the last man standing
"In a generation or two, the US will ask itself: who lost Europe?"
I come to America with a mission. All is not well in the old world. There is a tremendous danger looming, and it is very difficult to be optimistic. We might be in the final stages of the Islamization of Europe. This not only is a clear and present danger to the future of Europe itself, it is a threat to America and the sheer survival of the West. The danger I see looming is the scenario of America as the last man standing. The United States as the last bastion of Western civilization, facing an Islamic Europe. In a generation or two, the US will ask itself: who lost Europe? Patriots from around Europe risk their lives every day to prevent precisely this scenario form becoming a reality.
Many European cities are already one-quarter Muslim: just take Amsterdam, Marseille and Malmo in Sweden. In many cities the majority of the under-18 population is Muslim. Paris is now surrounded by a ring of Muslim neighbourhoods. Mohammed is the most popular name among boys in many cities. In some elementary schools in Amsterdam the farm can no longer be mentioned, because that would also mean mentioning the pig, and that would be an insult to Muslims. Many state schools in Belgium and Denmark only serve halal food to all pupils. In once-tolerant Amsterdam gays are beaten up almost exclusively by Muslims. Non-Muslim women routinely hear "whore, whore". Satellite dishes are not pointed to local TV stations, but to stations in the country of origin. In France school teachers are advised to avoid authors deemed offensive to Muslims, including Voltaire and Diderot; the same is increasingly true of Darwin. The history of the Holocaust can in many cases no longer be taught because of Muslim sensitivity. In England sharia courts are now officially part of the British legal system. Many neighbourhoods in France are no-go areas for women without head scarves. Last week a man almost died after being beaten up by Muslims in Brussels, because he was drinking during the Ramadan. Jews are fleeing France in record numbers, on the run for the worst wave of anti-Semitism since World War II. French is now commonly spoken on the streets of Tel Aviv and Netanya, Israel. I could go on forever with stories like this. Stories about Islamization.
This is the most painful thing to see: the betrayal by our elites. At this moment in Europe's history, our elites are supposed to lead us. To stand up for centuries of civilization. To defend our heritage. To honour our eternal Judeo-Christian values that made Europe what it is today. But there are very few signs of hope to be seen at the governmental level. Sarkozy, Merkel, Brown, Berlusconi; in private, they probably know how grave the situation is. But when the little red light goes on, they stare into the camera and tell us that Islam is a religion of peace, and we should all try to get along nicely and sing Kumbaya. They willingly participate in, what President Reagan so aptly called: "the betrayal of our past, the squandering of our freedom."
If there is hope in Europe, it comes from the people, not from the elites. Change can only come from a grass-roots level. It has to come from the citizens themselves. Yet these patriots will have to take on the entire political, legal and media establishment.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/022867.php
A very mild but also very true speech.
People from different background don't mix.
It has nothing to do with religion. Islamic people are living grouped by nationality by their own free will. Whole area's with mainly blacks. And those also have 'sorted' themselfs by nationality.
It's certainly not something forced upon them by the government because they pour billions in the integration process. Schools from kintergarten to University are all free. Financial/social position has nothing to do with it either. The unemployed here all get the same amount from welfare ($830/month for a single and $1654 for a family. That's excluding all kind of other benefits)
People that live here since the 60's still barely speak Dutch or not at all. The have their own shops in their own little neighbourhood. Forced? Nope again certainly no.
Frankly I don't understand what they are doing here. Perhaps the Dutch are all no good racist bastards. Fine with me. But why choose to spent your life in hell on earth...?
well, if you are counting on us to be the last bastion of Western civilization, I'm afraid we are all in a heap of trouble. :laughing7: :sigh:
QuoteIn some elementary schools in Amsterdam the farm can no longer be mentioned, because that would also mean mentioning the pig, and that would be an insult to Muslims.
In respect to previous conversations, this comment right here from Geert Wilders is the bigger problem.
It is putting up with things like that which causes the greater damage for areas where mulsims are integrating too. I really do not care if taking a crap on the Koran would incite riots, maybe we need to offend people so they can show their true colors rather than passify them out of fear.
I couldn't care less what someone does with the bible, in reality it is meaningless to how I should be. If someone burns a bible, so what? Maybe if they burn the bible and break a fire code law while doing it, they should be subject to the LAW of the fire code, not the LAW of whatever morality I think they are breaking by burning a bible.
I have never advocated just putting up with behavior, however, if the muslims grow in number and are allowed to live so as to not to be bothered by others words and beliefs, then, then you have my support.
I think we should have a legal bon fire with permits and such and toast those hotdogs and some pork chops with a huge pile of Korans for all I care and the police can arrest all the rioting muslims to show that we as a nation will do whatever the hell we want with their precious book. And if muslims want to burn a stack of bibles to cook fish, I'll bring some Salmon and see if the holy flames make it taste any better.
It is not the presence of muslims that is the problem, it is a society that caves to their demand that they not be religiously or morally offended in any way that is the problem.
The decption is that we can fight this war with guns and tanks against those who have no fear of physical defeat. the bible says the war is not about flesh and blood and it is not, this is a battle to defeat fear.
Very good post Molly.
Maybe this gives credence to "will He find faith in the earth?"
Luk 18:8 ". . . Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
Maybe the Islamization of the earth will be so complete that it will be hard for Christ to find any faith on the earth when He returns?
I'm waiting to see what happens in the Toledo, Ohio area. My brother lives down there and just south of the city the Muslims have a HUGE mosque. Right now they are very pro USA.
Quote from: WhiteWings on October 30, 2008, 01:06:22 PM
Now the meaning of 'believe like a child' is much more clear to me. :laughing7:
ya Know Bro...ya got to know which Children...such things come behind you and Kick ya UP the BUT :laughing7:
Mat 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
So basicly if you a a child of Jesus you are kicked into darkness just like when you are not :laughing7:
Now I know you where born at the age of 100 and believe like a child (sometimes refered to as senile...) did you have had a pram ((pram=slang for breast in Dutch btw.) (btw=vat in Dutch) or did you get high tech from the start?
http://www.sevensheaven.nl/images/producten/cartoon_20080318.jpg
For those of you who don't really know that Radical Islam is absolutely intent on destroying America from within and without, please go here: http://radicalislam.org/content/third-jihad
And here: http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/
If the Muslims do not put a stop to the radical elements within their countries in training jihadists this will definately turn into WWIII without any doubt whatsoever. I mean without any doubt.
Sorry for the doom and gloom but facts are facts.
Quote from: Tony N on October 31, 2008, 01:36:16 AM
For those of you who don't really know that Radical Islam is absolutely intent on destroying America from within and without, please go here: http://radicalislam.org/content/third-jihad
And here: http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/
If the Muslims do not put a stop to the radical elements within their countries in training jihadists this will definately turn into WWIII without any doubt whatsoever. I mean without any doubt.
Sorry for the doom and gloom but facts are facts.
Radical Islam? Does that mean there is a non radical islam and what is the difference?
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on October 31, 2008, 06:29:32 PM
Radical Islam? Does that mean there is a non radical islam and what is the difference?
There are Muslims who practice Islam sort of like some Christians do their brand of religion. Some don't care. They just go to their mosque or church for the fellowship. At least that's what I think. But there are some, such as Al Qaeda who are militant and want to kill etc. in order to overtake the world with Islam.
The problem is that people are sheep and the non radical ones are easily turned to be radical.
According to the web site I linked to, the FBI found a secret document that there are already cells within the U.S.A. which are planning our demise. We need to pray for the F.B.I. that they find all of them before they infect the non-radical groups.
Quote from: Tony N on October 31, 2008, 08:17:35 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on October 31, 2008, 06:29:32 PM
Radical Islam? Does that mean there is a non radical islam and what is the difference?
The problem is that people are sheep and the non radical ones are easily turned to be radical.
That's certainly true. Many such items in our news of Imans preaching:
"Throw gays form a high rise building head down."
"Jews are lower than pigs."
"Murder on Christian dogs is no murder because they are hated by aloha..."
"Western woman are no women but whores"
Then you get things like:
Picture not to be viewed by sensitive people http://www.hetvrijevolk.com/files/users/nasser/victim_of_muslim_gang_rape_in_sweden.jpg
It's of a woman that was victim or a muslim gan rape. (no nude in the picture)
Similar story of a Belgian 13 year old who was raped many times in a year by three muslim boys of 15, 16 and years old. Reason: she was no moslima.
Several public swimming pools here are closed because girls in the pool where constantly 'touched'
All basicly because according to some of them every non muslim is inhuman and needs to be either converted to islam or die.
Quote from: WhiteWings on October 31, 2008, 08:56:19 PM
Then you get things like:
Picture not to be viewed by sensitive people http://www.hetvrijevolk.com/files/users/nasser/victim_of_muslim_gang_rape_in_sweden.jpg
It's of a woman that was victim or a muslim gan rape. (no nude in the picture)
Looks like Sweeden needs some kind of western justice like we practiced in our wild west days. Yep, nice and swift.
Armonk, N.Y.--When they light the Christmas tree in Armonk on Sunday, there will be a Jewish menorah alongside, as usual. There also will be something new this year--an Islamic crescent and star. And if there are any Buddhists or Hindus who want to see their symbols, the village of Armonk is welcoming applications.--- St. Louis Post Dispatch
My first reaction was wrt the crescent and star, which I think does make a point for thought. Then I got to thinking...does any of this really mean anything anyway, except perhaps the Jewish menorah? How Christian is the "Christmas tree"?
We are to no longer know Him after the flesh, but the Spirit. God's blessing, James.
The Chrismas tree is of pagan origen (sun being reborn, days getting longer) But now its linked to Christianity.
If the muslims there are only a little like they are here they just are trying to irritate Christians.
QuoteWe are to no longer know Him after the flesh, but the Spirit.
And you do that by polluting a Christian custom with symbols of a false god?
I'm celebrating "X-MEN" this year.
Quote from: WhiteWings on December 15, 2008, 12:58:48 PM
The Chrismas tree is of pagan origen (sun being reborn, days getting longer) But now its linked to Christianity.
If the muslims there are only a little like they are here they just are trying to irritate Christians.
QuoteWe are to no longer know Him after the flesh, but the Spirit.
And you do that by polluting a Christian custom with symbols of a false god?
What I'm saying is, the Muslim issue is one thing. Secondly though, I doubt the Christmas Tree is much of a Christian symbol to begin with...further, that it's not about symbols anyway, but about knowing Him personally...in spirit.
Quote from: jabcat on December 15, 2008, 08:44:23 PM
Quote from: WhiteWings on December 15, 2008, 12:58:48 PM
The Chrismas tree is of pagan origen (sun being reborn, days getting longer) But now its linked to Christianity.
If the muslims there are only a little like they are here they just are trying to irritate Christians.
QuoteWe are to no longer know Him after the flesh, but the Spirit.
And you do that by polluting a Christian custom with symbols of a false god?
What I'm saying is, the Muslim issue is one thing.
QuoteSecondly though, I doubt the Christmas Tree is much of a Christian symbol to begin with...
As I wrote it's of pagan origen. But for many it has become a symbol of Christman. The fact that for most Christmas mean Santa Claus is another story
Quotefurther, that it's not about symbols anyway, but about knowing Him personally...in spirit.
I can agree with that.
Altough Christ isn't born on 25 December for many Christians Christmas is the birthday of Christ.
It's about respect. Same with 'in spirit'. That's also (partly) respect.
Likely it's different for many but in my (current) view spiritual and symbolic things very often go hand in hand.
And when the symbolic thing mocked adding pagan muslim symbols to it then that can be seen as an attack on the spiritual.
Agreed. As I mentioned, maybe the menorah is the most "spiritual" symbol of the ones listed, as God told the Jews to place that in the temple. However, since temple worship is destroyed and replaced by the new covenant, is the menorah even currently significant then? :dontknow: Maybe s/w like the "wailing wall"...are they really being "heard"/prayers recognized, or are they literally just "talking to the wall"?
Quote from: jabcat on December 15, 2008, 10:10:48 PM
Agreed. As I mentioned, maybe the menorah is the most "spiritual" symbol of the ones listed, as God told the Jews to place that in the temple. However, since temple worship is destroyed and replaced by the new covenant, is the menorah even currently significant then? :dontknow:
That beyond my level.
So Jabcat; no comment.
I'm aware that's an unusual comment from me :laughing7:
QuoteMaybe s/w like the "wailing wall"...are they really being "heard"/prayers recognized, or are they literally just "talking to the wall"?
Personally I think the prayers are heard.
They may do the wrong thing but personally I think God looks in their heart and still is happy they are worshipping Him with genuine faith.
Quote from: WhiteWings on December 15, 2008, 10:46:57 PM
Personally I think the prayers are heard.
They may do the wrong thing but personally I think God looks in their heart and still is happy they are worshipping him with genuine faith.
Ro 8:26 Now, similarly, the spirit also is aiding our infirmity, for what we should be praying for, to accord with what must be, we are not aware, but the spirit itself is pleading for the sake of us with inarticulate groanings.
I believe that religion has defined to much of a separation between people, we group people or we group ourselves. But I think prayer has been taught as this image of physical rituals and of course the many variations on how to pray properly.
If we are not aware of what we should truly pray for, it stands to reason that we aren't going to help that matter by having to follow a specific routine. Standing up, down, bowed, on our head, it's irrevalent.
I think an Atheist (as we or they group one another) has a good thought for someone, that is prayer as much as the most devout longwinded faithful Christian could ever utter.
Quote from: WhiteWings on October 31, 2008, 08:56:19 PM
Quote from: Tony N on October 31, 2008, 08:17:35 PM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on October 31, 2008, 06:29:32 PM
Radical Islam? Does that mean there is a non radical islam and what is the difference?
The problem is that people are sheep and the non radical ones are easily turned to be radical.
That's certainly true. Many such items in our news of Imans preaching:
"Throw gays form a high rise building head down."
"Jews are lower than pigs."
"Murder on Christian dogs is no murder because they are hated by aloha..."
"Western woman are no women but whores"
Then you get things like:
Picture not to be viewed by sensitive people http://www.hetvrijevolk.com/files/users/nasser/victim_of_muslim_gang_rape_in_sweden.jpg
It's of a woman that was victim or a muslim gan rape. (no nude in the picture)
Similar story of a Belgian 13 year old who was raped many times in a year by three muslim boys of 15, 16 and years old. Reason: she was no moslima.
Several public swimming pools here are closed because girls in the pool where constantly 'touched'
All basicly because according to some of them every non muslim is inhuman and needs to be either converted to islam or die.
I would die before I gave up my religion. Christianity is the only religion that gives women a chance of salvation- the Koran says that most people in Hell are women- Buddhism teaches that women should stay in the house and they have no souls, HInduism teaches that a woman can't reach nirvana- she has to be reincarnated as a man.
Please consider this as not a call to arms or fear, but a call to be informed, pray, and know what we're talking about when we SPEAK UP.
The narrator is apparently an atheist, so has a bit of that view about the scriptures. However, I found his information about the Quaran and the Muslim ideology to be enlightening and something that should be known.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHdMlT3E7cg
YHWH, the Father of our Savior Yashua, bless.
He basically says the message of the Quaran progressed over the years as it was written; the earlier verses on peace were trumped by the ones stating Islam should take over the world, including with violence and deceit. Lying about one's motives to the "infidel" is acceptable while promoting the Islam agenda.
The sharia law section of the video; not good. The institution of sharia law is the expected and only acceptable outcome of Muslim domination.
IMO, we shouldn't be afraid, God is in control. But we should be informed, prayerful, and take a stand for the truth. :2c:
:cloud9: That's what I've been saying for some time now, Jabcat..... :thumbsup: There have to be watchmen on the walls to sound an alarm.
The call is for PRAYER, to ward off the enemy. Aside from the horrific abuses of Islam to it's own people, this is a powerful demonic stronghold built up by hundreds of years and millions of idolatrous prayers, that needs to be pulled down. Blessings...
Good points. Amen. I was just thinking about the demonic aspect earlier tonight. We battle not against flesh and blood...
Did you all hear about the south park death threats followed by the draw muhammad contest?
South park apparently 'showed' muhammad in their show [except he was either behind a censored sign or in a teddy bear suit so you never really got to see him], and the cartoonists received death threats. So they pulled the show. Then another female cartoonist from washington state declared may 10, 2010 as draw muhammad day because she was shocked by their attempt to stifle free speech. But she pulled out after she was put on a death list and received death threats.
Then the internet picked up the ball, drawing thousands of pictures of muhammad and distributing them all over the internet. Then Pakistan banned the internet in their country. :laughing7:
I think the muslims have crossed a line and that the young people are now pushing back.
The thing is they are serious in their threats and prison isn't enough to deter them from commiting murder since ,for the most radicals, even death isn't enough to stop them.
There's a very few people willing to die for freedom of speech.
Sure if everyone went with one voice they wouldn't be able to kill everyone but who's going first? :laughing7:
Card's post really jumped out at me in all of this chaos and confusion being infused by the muslim activity. Burning the Koran for me is being distracted from the promise of God within us that he will be with us to the ends of the earth. Should we be concerned about our surroundings, the most effective weapon we have is not our actions or our words, it's in our prayers.
Only the power of God can pierce the heavy armor men have dressed themselves in as they've spent lifetimes in preparation for their battle. How many times did we see the Israelites overcome their enemies by doing simple, nonmilitary-istic things . . .such as positioning their shields as God's light blinded their enemy and began killing one another instead of the Israelites.
How many times did they win battles without even using weapons? The weapons of our warfare are truly mighty through prayer, but it's not prayer, then action, it's prayer and faith. And also bear in mind what those prayers were aimed at. To the taking down of strongholds of IMAGINATIONS in high places . . .we're talking about the mind of men here . . .you can't change a man's mind by your own volition. But we can pray to the Father and He can penetrait their hard hearts . . .but it's all about prayer.
:cloud9: Exactly....I've posted several videos that came my way by way of Pakistani ministers I'm friends with on FB. Many of them were about the Lord appearing to them either in dreams or open eye visions and their instantaneous de-conversion from Islam when Truth appeared.
I have always said that the best "Christians" many times were the best "heathens", be it New Age converts or Muslim converts, because they were SEARCHING to begin with, dedicated to finding. And He, looking upon the heart, let them find Him. My :2c: Blessings....
Quote from: Nathan...but it's all about prayer.
Yes, I keep forgetting that--plus I don't really feel like I know what to pray for in situations like these.
But
to stand and
to stand against implies action.
13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. --Eph 6
There comes a time in our lives where we pass from warring to planting. The wisdom of the Father tames our aggressiveness in that through the process of our life in him, we find the most effective way to have his will manifest, is to let him do the manifesting and all we're doing is the letting.
The nature of Jesus is not a warring nature. There are some great examples especially in the New Testament on how to deal with opposing beliefs. And the best way Paul dealt with it was, he simply continued to exercise in the gifting he was giving of evangelism. He'd be chased, caught and beaten, even left for dead, but not once do you read where he encouraged his followers to burn their enemy's Bibles. Standing firm is not advancing on the enemy, it's simply being unshaken by all of their chaotic rhetoric.
It's not stubbornness, it's inward assurance of what truth really is. A man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with an argument. Even Jesus paid no heed to men's minds because he knew the source of the mind's power and logic is always short of righteousness.
Don't know how to pray? Pray that there will be a release of God's light, love and life into these individuals who've fallen victim to their own minds. Pray they experience freedom of heaven. Pray they have a personal encounter with the Father's presence. It only takes one visitation to transform a person forever.
Quote from: NathanDon't know how to pray? Pray that there will be a release of God's light, love and life into these individuals who've fallen victim to their own minds. Pray they experience freedom of heaven. Pray they have a personal encounter with the Father's presence. It only takes one visitation to transform a person forever.
Thanks for that. I need more guidance in prayer. Someone should start a thread.
QuoteThe nature of Jesus is not a warring nature.
I'm not sure I would put it that way because I believe we are in a period [until the millenium, at least] of spiritual warfare which will just get heavier as we approach the end of the age.
Also, to withstand means to stand against. That means taking a stand against. And to stand means to hold your ground because we are standing on Christ as a foundation--we have something firm--Christ-- under our feet.
Jesus stood up to the Pharisees and Priests, he stood against them, and he held his ground. He called them blind guides and vipers. He told them over and over again how they were wrong and what they needed to do to change.
This is action. It's not passivity.
..that ye may be able to withstand in the day of evil...[Eph 6]
G436
ἀνθίστημι
anthistēmi
anth-is'-tay-mee
From G473 and G2476;
to stand against, that is, oppose: - resist, withstand.
True, but Jesus did what he did and said what he said as an example for people to follow "and" mature in. Weapons into plowshares is a kingdom principle of spiritual maturity. Jesus "is" rest. He is the Sabbath, he is the Sabbath of Sabbaths in that he is the Jubilee. Even God told Moses to be still and "watch" as God fought the battles.
And the standing firm again, is not approaching the aggressors, it's simply not moving when they attempt to move you. It wasn't the general public Jesus had his issues with, it was with the religious minds that kept trying to kill him. He didn't continue to stir up the synogogues, he took his ministry to the streets and back pastures and such. It was the religious that kept aggressively dogging him, not the other way around.
That's all I'm trying to say here.
Quote from: Nathan on September 14, 2010, 07:01:09 PM
True, but Jesus did what he did and said what he said as an example for people to follow "and" mature in. Weapons into plowshares is a kingdom principle of spiritual maturity. Jesus "is" rest. He is the Sabbath, he is the Sabbath of Sabbaths in that he is the Jubilee. Even God told Moses to be still and "watch" as God fought the battles.
And the standing firm again, is not approaching the aggressors, it's simply not moving when they attempt to move you. It wasn't the general public Jesus had his issues with, it was with the religious minds that kept trying to kill him. He didn't continue to stir up the synogogues, he took his ministry to the streets and back pastures and such. It was the religious that kept aggressively dogging him, not the other way around.
That's all I'm trying to say here.
I agree with you about the 'rest' part--but, but, but, lol--what if it's not the Sabbath day, yet?
We were talking about Bonhoeffer on the other thread. He was a German minister who had the chance to escape Nazi Germany, but he chose to return and stand against the Nazi's. He ended up in a Nazi prison, and was sentenced to death just before the war ended.
Do you think he shouldn't have taken that position?
I think he realized what Jesus' life on this earth was all about and what was meant by 'take up your cross and follow me.'
One of the many wonderful things I've come to understand in this great and liberating perspective of the Father's love for those he created to live in and love on is . . . to let the individuals embrace the Father on their own level. To "allow" them to experience the intimacy of God for themselves without condemning them for not seeing things the way I see them.
So if people feel closer to the Father by waging warfare against the oposing forces around them, I say Father lead on! There was a comment about having "balance" in things. I whole-heartedly agree with that. Having opposites is actually what creates balance. Look at your own body. I'm assuming everyone who writes on this forum has a right and left hand. Can you imagine how fun it would be to try to share your thoughts on a keyboard by using two right hands?
Spiritually, those of us who claim to be in the light often find ourselves condemning others for being in the dark, yet it is the Father that brought both into existance for his purpose.
Having said all of that, I'd like to also add that just as there comes a time when engaging in a battle is the only option because that's where we are spiritually for that time, so it is when it comes time to lay down those weapons of warfare.
There "is" a reflection in the natural of how the spiritual operates and this is no different. You don't see the elderly out there on the front lines engaging in the heavy artillery do you? That's for the younger generations. And it's just the nature of life for one to lay down their rifle and pick up a rake or a hoe. Strangely enough, many of our planting tools are formed out of the same material as many of our weapons were made of. Steel, iron, various metals . . .yet as we mature, as we get older, we're not so quick to run for the gun, we find it's much more rewarding to plant than to kill.
So when we hear the battle cries to "put on your armor", my mindset now is much different than it was years ago. The only caution I have for those still young in vigor and valor is that we need to be careful who we're using our weapons against. Often times when debates get heated, the mentality is to shoot to kill and apologize later.
The more mature we become, the greater our appreciation is for the Father as we're growing and becoming more and more like our Father who "is" love in it's fulness.
Quote from: Molly on September 14, 2010, 07:08:32 PM
Quote from: Nathan on September 14, 2010, 07:01:09 PM
True, but Jesus did what he did and said what he said as an example for people to follow "and" mature in. Weapons into plowshares is a kingdom principle of spiritual maturity. Jesus "is" rest. He is the Sabbath, he is the Sabbath of Sabbaths in that he is the Jubilee. Even God told Moses to be still and "watch" as God fought the battles.
And the standing firm again, is not approaching the aggressors, it's simply not moving when they attempt to move you. It wasn't the general public Jesus had his issues with, it was with the religious minds that kept trying to kill him. He didn't continue to stir up the synogogues, he took his ministry to the streets and back pastures and such. It was the religious that kept aggressively dogging him, not the other way around.
That's all I'm trying to say here.
I agree with you about the 'rest' part--but, but, but, lol--what if it's not the Sabbath day, yet?
We were talking about Bonhoeffer on the other thread. He was a German minister who had the chance to escape Nazi Germany, but he chose to return and stand against the Nazi's. He ended up in a Nazi prison, and was sentenced to death just before the war ended.
Do you think he shouldn't have taken that position?
I think he realized what Jesus' life on this earth was all about and what was meant by 'take up your cross and follow me.'
It's funny because after watching the movie on Boenhoffer, I thought that was a place where he failed ie:opposing the Nazis.
But even there, his best books were written in prison and I think some cellmates and guards gave their lives to Christ while there.
I don't know, it was my opinion back there but with what Nathan just said, it makes sense and if the Father called Boenhoffer to resist Hitler, who am I to disagree?
Sometimes though, I think christians enter in fights they don't belong to as abortion, gay weddings and euthanasia. Not that these are good things but that they are only a results of the problem - corruption/sin. We have not been called to morally judge the world but love them.
We are strangers in this world, like Daniel in babylon who did not oppose the laws as ungodly for everyone but as agaisnt the Laws of God for him.
I may be wrong. :Sparkletooth:
Standing against in the book of Daniel--
12There are certain Jews whom thou hast set over the affairs of the province of Babylon, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego; these men, O king, have not regarded thee: they serve not thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.
--Daniel 3
If everyone had stood against as Bonhoeffer did, there would have been no Nazi's.
As it was, he was one of the few lights in a very dark world.
The mouth of the lions would never have been closed had there never been a Daniel. Or better yet, there would never have been a manifestation of the three boys who would not bend their knee to an idol and instead of being free in their beleifs were bound. The very fire that was intended to kill them burned off their bondages and in the fire, they "saw" another among them.
No fire, no vision.
There would have been no fire [for them] if they had stood with the evil king and bowed to his false gods, either.
Exactly. Had they just gone with everyone else, we wouldn't even be talking about them now, they would have just drifted off into history unnoticed. But . . .they didn't!!
'Draw Muhammad' Cartoonist Goes Into Hiding at FBI's Insistence After Assassination Threat
Published September 16, 2010
| FoxNews.com
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/09/16/draw-muhammad-cartoonist-goes-hiding/
hi there all,
I am a bit dismayed by this thread as we are all people and i don't like to think of people as 'enemies'. We are all searching God in our own way.
And remember Islam in the middle ages was very advanced with mathematics, philosophy, architecture,etc, whereas us 'christians' were in the dark with superstition and thoughts of bloodshed. And when muslims conquered a city, they didn't always kill the people, as the crusaders often did, but allowed them to live (as second class citizens no doubt but still no dead)
The popes often spoke of killing them all, God will keep His chosen ones safe!!!!
So although we don't like what's happening now, we weren't very enlightened either and we had Christ as our guide. How much more better should we have been!! Maybe it's their turn now.
I believe everything happens for a reason, everything as scripture says has its season.
Godbless
Nancy
That is not strictly true, it was not Islam that was advanced, it was the middle eastern peoples who where advanced.
The location of the middle east, and the people inevitably under the rule of Islam's religious authorities where in the middle of key trade roads from the east -- India, China, the far east, who where amongst some of the most culturally sophisticated people on the face of the earth at the time. Chinese gun powder, chemistry, and architecture was a marvel even til the end of the modern era.
The middle easterners inevitably through cultural exchange, gained much of this knowledge. Another factor that helped their abilities in mathematics was their close proximity to Greece, and the Mediterranean nations that still existed at the time who carried the Greek culture. Byzantium also had an incredibly sophisticated culture, with architecture, mathematics, and a keen understanding of Greek, and Roman knowledge that survived. Byzantium was afterall, the eastern half of the cloven Roman Empire that still survived well into the late middle ages long after the Western half (which lead to the fall of Europe and the dark ages anyway) had fallen into dust.
The dark ages where dark, but they weren't as hideous as we think in terms of culture. Europe wasn't this nation of baffoons, the architecture of Europe as beautifully made; castles, cathedrals, fortresses, chapels, shrines, etc. Not everything was a dirt field with repressed peasants licking poop...like we like to believe.
As far as the Crusades go, the Muslims where not as nice as believed.
http://www.frontline.org.za/articles/crusades_all_about.htm
An article on the Crusades that I found enlightening.
Just to be fair and balanced...I've gone through my Christian walk getting many a dirty look from Wiccans, and Atheists, and other peoples because Christians "Kill everyone", and "Caused us to not have flying cars, and the cure for aids already because they stunted our smarts-growth" which isn't true at all...
QuoteJust to be fair and balanced...I've gone through my Christian walk getting many a dirty look from Wiccans, and Atheists, and other peoples because Christians "Kill everyone", and "Caused us to not have flying cars, and the cure for aids already because they stunted our smarts-growth" which isn't true at all...
In fact, just by the look of it, I think christianity has brought much peace to a violent world.
In christian nations (not anymore but it is a heritage), you don't see a lot of hungry children freezing on the streets in winter. I tend to think that people are more generous and good than in romans time as an example.
See Haiti and Pakistan or the tsunami in indonesia a few years ago.
Maybe I'm blinded though.
Quote from: NancyMaybe it's their turn now.
Oh no. I don't think so. If you want to give them a turn--move to Iran or Saudi Arabia lol. But, it's not for me. I have been set free by my Lord Jesus. :laughing7:
PS They had their turn--ever hear of the Ottoman Empire? How about the genocide of 2million Armenians during WWI whose only 'sin' was being Christian?
Quote from: Molly on October 29, 2008, 07:22:10 AM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on October 29, 2008, 07:20:46 AM
None of that is an excuse to round up and deport muslims in the United States for the sole reason of their religious beliefs.
Because the very criteria that would allow that, could make you next.
This is Judeo/Christian values? Then I renounce them.
Not deport citizens. It's too late to do that. But deport all non citizens, and not just muslims. All.
And close our borders.
$$$
"Balkanization"
The political term used when referring to the fragmentation or breakup of a region or country into smaller regions or countries. The term comes from the Balkan wars, where the country of Yugoslavia was broken up in to six countries between 1989 and 1992.
Balkanization, or Balkanisation, is a geopolitical term originally used to describe the process of fragmentation or division of a region or state into smaller regions or states that are often hostile or non-cooperative with each other.
balkanize - divide a territory into small, hostile states
Balkanize - To break up into small, mutually hostile political units
as in, the balkanization of America.
I don't believe all are seeking God in their own way. Many are blinded from seeing Jesus as the Savior. I also don't believe that everyone in the world is the brother or sister of a spiritually born-from-above believer on Yesu. Neighbor perhaps [love your neighbor], but brother and sister has to do with the household of faith - and not all are of the faith.
Paul clearly distinguished between believers and unbelievers. "..you must be continually praying for us..so that we might be rescued from abnormal and wicked humans; for not everyone belongs to the Faith! Yet the Master is trustworthy, and He will solidly establish you and guard you against the Wicked One [Satan]." 2 Thessalonians 2:2,3 The Christian Bible (1991)
IMO, we need to love them as individuals, but stand against what they stand for. We don't win them by hating, killing, or persecuting them. Still we need to stand up and declare I Timothy 4:10 - "we place our hope on the living God, who is Savior of all men, especially of believers"; and "I am the way, the truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me".
I agree Jabcat, and this is only from me;
Jesus died for the WHOLE WORLD, now all this stuff that is going on is surely in The Fathers control or management, so I am confident that He, will, in His Time and His way..bring ALL of us...back into His fold.
Yes times are scary and unsettling, and our nature is to feel the way our nature wants us to feel...but God is LOVE...now you just try and find hate and wars in LOVE.
Quote from: Nancy on September 19, 2010, 01:21:49 AMAnd remember Islam in the middle ages was very advanced with mathematics, philosophy, architecture,etc, whereas us 'christians' were in the dark with superstition and thoughts of bloodshed.
That's not correct Nancy. They also fell back to their own dark ages. Islam killed their science. Just as Christianity did here for a long time.
Quote from: jabcat on September 19, 2010, 07:47:01 AMI don't believe all are seeking God in their own way. Many are blinded from seeing Jesus as the Savior.
Their 3rd Calif came to Jerusalem to worship on the place where Abraham, David and others once were. So they got it partly right :winkgrin:
Quote from: jabcat on September 19, 2010, 07:47:01 AM
I don't believe all are seeking God in their own way. Many are blinded from seeing Jesus as the Savior. I also don't believe that everyone in the world is the brother or sister of a spiritually born-from-above believer on Yesu. Neighbor perhaps [love your neighbor], but brother and sister has to do with the household of faith - and not all are of the faith.
Paul clearly distinguished between believers and unbelievers. "..you must be continually praying for us..so that we might be rescued from abnormal and wicked humans; for not everyone belongs to the Faith! Yet the Master is trustworthy, and He will solidly establish you and guard you against the Wicked One [Satan]." 2 Thessalonians 2:2,3 The Christian Bible (1991)
IMO, we need to love them as individuals, but stand against what they stand for. We don't win them by hating, killing, or persecuting them. Still we need to stand up and declare I Timothy 4:10 - "we place our hope on the living God, who is Savior of all men, especially of believers"; and "I am the way, the truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me".
:cloud9: I agree Jab.....and we are to do spiritual battle for their souls. If ALL the Christians would pray for the release of these people's souls from the demonic strongholds they have, the battles would cease. Pray ye one for another that YE might be made whole (no longer 2 separated, but ONE). Blessings...
hi there,
Maybe i haven't got facts write about Islamic societies in the middle ages but i feel that if we as christians were perfect then we could cast the first stone but as history has shown, we have been far from perfect, especially as we had the ultimate peace maker as our guide. We expelled Jews from our midst even when St Paul himself said that we shouldn't be cocky when dealing with the branches that have been severed for our sake.
We should look at the plank in our own eye before looking at the speck in our brothers eyes'.
When i see we i mean christendom in general and i'm sure that if we were born then we would have believed exactly what the church then preached (catholic church).
Godbless
Nancy
British Muslims want to take over UK [and turn Buckingham Palace into a mosque. :laughing7:]
http://www.examiner.com/conservative-in-national/british-muslims-want-to-take-over-the-uk-video
[They're changing guards at Buckingham Palace,
AnjemChousari went down with Alice.]
Quote from: NancyLook at plank in your own eye!
Nancy, I'm really not interested in having my tongue cut off for refusing to convert to Islam which was done to Armenians in Muslim countries last century. Planks are not the issue. Creeping Sharia is.
Quote from: Molly on September 20, 2010, 05:25:39 AM
British Muslims want to take over UK [and turn Buckingham Palace into a mosque. :laughing7:]
http://www.examiner.com/conservative-in-national/british-muslims-want-to-take-over-the-uk-video
[They're changing guards at Buckingham Palace,
AnjemChousari went down with Alice.]
well they've already taken over the white house, even got voted president :winkgrin:
Quote from: thinktank on September 20, 2010, 05:32:24 AM
Quote from: Molly on September 20, 2010, 05:25:39 AM
British Muslims want to take over UK [and turn Buckingham Palace into a mosque. :laughing7:]
http://www.examiner.com/conservative-in-national/british-muslims-want-to-take-over-the-uk-video
[They're changing guards at Buckingham Palace,
AnjemChousari went down with Alice.]
well they've already taken over the white house, even got voted president :winkgrin:
If they start building a dome over the whitehouse, be afraid, be very afraid... :laughing7:
Quote from: Molly on September 20, 2010, 05:41:58 AM
Quote from: thinktank on September 20, 2010, 05:32:24 AM
Quote from: Molly on September 20, 2010, 05:25:39 AM
British Muslims want to take over UK [and turn Buckingham Palace into a mosque. :laughing7:]
http://www.examiner.com/conservative-in-national/british-muslims-want-to-take-over-the-uk-video
[They're changing guards at Buckingham Palace,
AnjemChousari went down with Alice.]
well they've already taken over the white house, even got voted president :winkgrin:
If they start building a dome over the whitehouse, be afraid, be very afraid... :laughing7:
I've heard they'r building a dome right over city center houston :mshock: That's a very different type of dome though :laughing7:
Quote from: Molly on September 20, 2010, 05:25:39 AM
Planks are not the issue. Creeping Sharia is.
You mean the same sharia law that the "moderate" imam Rauf (Ground Zero area) believes in? The same Sharia law that allows a man to beat his wife? However, there's a good side to it. They're not allowed to hit them in the same place often, and especially to not break any bones or draw blood. Otherwise, no problem. Give'em what for. :thumbdown:
Arab festival 2009: Sharia law, Dearborn, Michigan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEPod-hxD7g
Arab Festival 2010: Arrested for Being Christian Preachers in Dearborn
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FXDAaiT6os
From the Thomas More Law Center:
Richard Thompson, President and Chief Counsel of the Thomas More Law Center, commented, "It's evident that the Dearborn Police department was more interested in placating Muslims than obeying our Constitution. These Christians were exercising their Constitutional rights to free speech and the free exercise of religion, but apparently in a city where the Muslim population seems to dominate the political apparatus, Sharia law trumps our Constitution."
Arab Festival 2010: Dearborn Police Defending Islam against the Constitution
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Smw9QuH1xkA&NR=1&feature=fvwp
They should have given copies of their gospel to the police... :laughing7:
Quote from: jabcat on September 20, 2010, 06:20:48 AM
You mean the same sharia law
You mean the same sharia law that the "moderate" imam Rauf (Ground Zero area) believes in?[/quote]There is already such a court in the UK (ask Taffy)
Quotethat the "moderate" imam Rauf (Ground Zero area) believes in?
Nothing moderate about that man. He speaks with a double toungue.
In English he's moderate. But in his speeches during his middle east visit he practically declares war to the west.
French senate approves burqa ban
September 14, 2010|By the CNN Wire Staff
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-09-14/world/france.burqa.ban_1_burqa-overt-religious-symbols-ban-last-year?_s=PM:WORLD
On the other hand, I am really against this type of law. What people wear, as long as it's reasonably decent, is none of the government's business. So, I wonder how this will play out...
2000 years history of Christianity--wiped out overnight [by the bolsheviks]...
Cathedral of Archangel Michael (Moscow Kremlin)
From OrthodoxWiki
Cathedral of Archangel MIchael in the Kremlin of Moscow
The Cathedral of Archangel Michael (Russian: Архангельский собор, or Arkhangelsky sobor) is a cathedral in the Moscow Kremlin. It is the second largest church within the Moscow Kremlin. The cathedral contains the tombs of the rulers of Russia from the fortieth century until Tsar Peter I.
History
The present cathedral situated on the edge of Borovitsky Hill replaced an earlier white stone church that was also dedicated to the Archangel Michael that itself replaced in 1333 a legendary earlier wooden Church of the Archangel Michael.
Grand Prince Basil III of Moscow commissioned the construction of the present cathedral that was built between 1505 and 1508. Architect Alvise Lamberti de Montagnano, known in Russia as Alevizo Novy, an Italian sculptor from Venice, Italy, was selected to supervise the construction. His design combined the traditional Russian form of a structure of five domes and six pillars with Italian Renaissance decorative features. The cathedral with a combination of pilasters with capitals and scallop-shell motifs, cornices, a false arcade, and other decorative details influenced Russia architects in the following years.
In later years, the cathedral under went several changes that altered its appearance. Two chapels were added to the sides of the structure in the latter years of the sixteenth century, and in the eighteenth century the helmet-shaped central dome was replaced by a dome that is onion-shaped.
The frescoes in the interior were done between 1652 and 1666, by a team almost one hundred artists under the direction of the icon painters Simon Ushakov, Stepan Rezanets and Fyodor Zubov. The ceiling of the cathedral is covered by paintings that tell the story of the reign of God from creation to the Last Judgement. The side walls depict the Archangel Michael in his battle with Satan.
THe original iconostasis was burned by Napoleon's troops during his short occupation of Moscow in 1812. The present forty three foot tall iconostasis dates from 1813 and holds icons that were mainly painted between 1679 and 1681. The icon of Archangel Michael in full armor is the oldest in the cathedral and is believed to have been painted in the late fourteenth century.
The cathedral contains forty six tombs of the rulers of the Duchy of Moscow and Russia from the fourteen the century until Peter I moved the capital of Russia to St. Petersburg. Of special note is the burial chamber of Ivan IV, the Terrible, who was the first Tsar of Russia. A total of fifty four burials are in the cathedral.
The cathedral was closed after the October Revolution in 1917 and was opened to the public as a museum in 1955.
-Ground Zero: NY Says No to Rebuilding a Church Destroyed on 9/11 but Yes to the Mosque?
by Dr. D ~ August 17th, 2010
St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church which stood across the street from the World Trade center was reduced to dust on September 11, 2001. For 9 years the NY Port Authority has refused to let them rebuild their church—a church that was actually destroyed in the attack but plans for a new mosque are approved by the city?
It is my view that St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church should be rebuilt. The President talked about private property rights and that the Muslims should be allowed to build on their own property near 'Ground Zero'. Well, what about the property rights of the St. Nicholas Greek Orthodox Church? The church had been there since 1922 but their rights are being totally disregarded.
The church that was destroyed in the 9/11 attacks should be rebuilt first before any new project like the Cordoba Mosque is considered. It is obvious to me that the Muslims in this case are receiving better treatment from the city than the church.
http://answersforthefaith.com/2010/08/17/ground-zero-ny-says-no-to-rebuilding-a-church-destroyed-on-911-but-yes-to-the-mosque/
hi there,
What is the point to all this ranting that muslims want to overtake us? If they do they do, there is nothing we can do apart from start holy wars! If it is God's will that these things happen then they will happen. We are all human beings whom God loves not matter how cranky.
Godbless
Nancy
Quote from: Nancy on September 21, 2010, 11:52:47 AM
hi there,
What is the point to all this ranting that muslims want to overtake us? If they do they do, there is nothing we can do apart from start holy wars! If it is God's will that these things happen then they will happen. We are all human beings whom God loves not matter how cranky.
Godbless
Nancy
AMEN! :thumbsup: :grin:
Quote from: NancyIf they do they do, there is nothing we can do apart from start holy wars!
Given a choice between 'holy wars,' as you say, and controlling our immigration policy, I think what we can do is obvious.
But, right now, our immigration policy, including wide open borders, is being controlled by people who do not have our best interests at heart IMO.
Same goes for what our children are being taught in the public schools.
What can we do? Vote in November, for one. Other things we can do--educate ourselves, pay attention, get involved. Put pressure on our elected officials. Support candidates who do what they are elected to do.
PS did you know they have tacked an amnesty bill called the 'dream act' onto a defense bill and they are voting on it today? Call your senator today and ask him to vote no on the dream act. Do you even know what the dream act is? Google it.
Php 3:20 For our citizenship is in the heavens, whence also a Saviour we await--the Lord Jesus Christ--
What is happening in the world(kosmos) should be of no concern to the saints. Pray yes, for His Will and then rest in knowing that it is His Will; and should His will be that "Muslims taking over your town lately?" Then it is well.
Rom. 13:1-6
Rom 13:1 Let every soul to the higher authorities be subject, for there is no authority except from God, and the authorities existing are appointed by God,
Yes I vote, and I will vote in Nov. and pray that it is the Lord's Will that our present earthly authority come to an end.
Peace and Love Through Jesus.
Quote from: micah7:9 on September 21, 2010, 09:14:07 PM
Php 3:20 For our citizenship is in the heavens, whence also a Saviour we await--the Lord Jesus Christ--
What is happening in the world(kosmos) should be of no concern to the saints. Pray yes, for His Will and then rest in knowing that it is His Will; and should His will be that "Muslims taking over your town lately?" Then it is well.
Rom. 13:1-6
Rom 13:1 Let every soul to the higher authorities be subject, for there is no authority except from God, and the authorities existing are appointed by God,
Yes I vote, and I will vote in Nov. and pray that it is the Lord's Will that our present earthly authority come to an end.
Peace and Love Through Jesus.
Forgive me if I read this wrong, but I sense weakness in your post, why do you will that we end our earthly God given authority?
I think the emphasis there is "earthly" authority. For me, that's saying carnal power. Pray that men lay down the power of their "self" so that this God-given authority you speak about can manifest. Our authority originates in the spiritual realm. As we allow/submit our "self" to the spirit, then spiritual dominion and authority rules. That, I believe, is why politics and religion are both train-wrecks. Both may have been birthed in us by the grace and mercy of God, but we've allowed our adversarial minds to reverse the blessing into this mess we see around us now.
Voting helps, but prayer carries a lot more clout "as" we vote. And I also agree with some of the other comments about our citizenship and such. We can easily be distracted by our natural surroundings to the point where we give away our peace and lose our power by becoming entangled by the situations we're to be actually exercising our dominion over.
Quote from: NathanI think the emphasis there is "earthly" authority. For me, that's saying carnal power.
..on earth as it is in heaven.Acts 22:28
And the chief captain answered, With a great sum obtained I this freedom. And Paul said, But I was free born.
2 Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 15And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
--Gen 2
dress and keep=tend, protect, and guard
Quote from: Nathan on September 21, 2010, 10:25:15 PM
I think the emphasis there is "earthly" authority. For me, that's saying carnal power. Pray that men lay down the power of their "self" so that this God-given authority you speak about can manifest. Our authority originates in the spiritual realm. As we allow/submit our "self" to the spirit, then spiritual dominion and authority rules. That, I believe, is why politics and religion are both train-wrecks. Both may have been birthed in us by the grace and mercy of God, but we've allowed our adversarial minds to reverse the blessing into this mess we see around us now.
Voting helps, but prayer carries a lot more clout "as" we vote. And I also agree with some of the other comments about our citizenship and such. We can easily be distracted by our natural surroundings to the point where we give away our peace and lose our power by becoming entangled by the situations we're to be actually exercising our dominion over.
:thumbsup:
Quote from: Molly on September 21, 2010, 11:06:08 PM
Quote from: NathanI think the emphasis there is "earthly" authority. For me, that's saying carnal power.
..on earth as it is in heaven.
Acts 22:28
And the chief captain answered, With a great sum obtained I this freedom. And Paul said, But I was free born.
2 Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
15And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
--Gen 2
dress and keep=tend, protect, and guard
But the "garden" itself was a fenced and hedged area of protection (H1588 H1598)
Quote from: MicahBut the "garden" itself was a fenced and hedged area of protection (H1588 H1598)
Yes, but do you think Adam's job changed when he went out into the world?
We are always fenced and hedged if our Lord is Jesus Christ.
Quote from: Molly on September 22, 2010, 12:59:18 AM
Quote from: MicahBut the "garden" itself was a fenced and hedged area of protection (H1588 H1598)
Yes, but do you think Adam's job changed when he went out into the world?
We are always fenced and hedged if our Lord is Jesus Christ.
Yes
Not so fast there . . .I know that get's preached a lot but I think it gets abused more than anything. The story of Job having a hedge around him is a great story, it's straight out of old covenant thinking, but it "is" a great story. However, it's "through" our wandering that we find direction. It's "in" our darkness that the illumination of stars manifest. It's "in" our trials and tribulation that we are to live in good cheer as it's there we come into hte revelation that Christ has overcome these dark and dreary places in our lives. But to say we'll never experience them because God is protecting us doesn't seem to fit for me.
God often likes to prove Satan wrong when he puffs up his angelic chest and says;
Satan: He only loves you because you bless him you know?
God: O really?
Satan: Ya really.
God: No way...
Satan: Ya way.
God: That's my name don't wear it out. :laughing7:
Satan: Ugh! I should have known you'd lead me there...That's not the point! He only worships you because you bless him!
God: You're boring me, go prove it then we'll see the truth of the matter.
Satan: I can't prove it unless you give me power to...
God: Have at it, but don't you dare kill him. I'm really quite fond of Job...
Oh, and Satan!
Satan: WHAT?!
God: Tuck in your robe, you look like Hell...
Satan: ...
God: Hahahaha :laughing7:...I'm so clever.
Angel of the Lord: Indeed I AM. :happygrin:
Quote from: Lefein on September 22, 2010, 07:51:49 PM
God often likes to prove Satan wrong when he puffs up his angelic chest and says;
Satan: He only loves you because you bless him you know?
God: O really?
Satan: Ya really.
God: No way...
Satan: Ya way.
God: That's my name don't wear it out. :laughing7:
Satan: Ugh! I should have known you'd lead me there...That's not the point! He only worships you because you bless him!
God: You're boring me, go prove it then we'll see the truth of the matter.
Satan: I can't prove it unless you give me power to...
God: Have at it, but don't you dare kill him. I'm really quite fond of Job...
Oh, and Satan!
Satan: WHAT?!
God: Tuck in your robe, you look like Hell...
Satan: ...
God: Hahahaha :laughing7:...I'm so clever.
Angel of the Lord: Indeed I AM. :happygrin:
:umnick: :search: :dunno:
I thought it was a joyous read myself lefein, a simpler way of understanding why God allowed Satan to destroy Jobs possessions and his familly.
God put limits on satan with Job. Satan was not allowed to do anything to Job that God didn't allow. That's a hedge.
Nevertheless, I do believe we have a hedge around us as God's garden living in the world. Even though our faith may be strengthened by hard times doesn't mean we seek them out. Nor should we endeavor to ruin our republic, or allow the ruination of it, just to seek out hard times.
When I grow a garden, I know that if I don't work over it constantly, preparing, planting, tending, weeding, watering, fertilizing, it's going to die, even though it's God that makes it grow, not me. The same is true of our country.
Quote from: Molly on September 22, 2010, 09:50:26 PM
God put limits on satan with Job. Satan was not allowed to do anything to Job that God didn't allow. That's a hedge.
Nevertheless, I do believe we have a hedge around us as God's garden living in the world. Even though our faith may be strengthened by hard times doesn't mean we seek them out. Nor should we endeavor to ruin our republic, or allow the ruination of it, just to seek out hard times.
When I grow a garden, I know that if I don't work over it constantly, preparing, planting, tending, weeding, watering, fertilizing, it's going to die, even though it's God that makes it grow, not me. The same is true of our country.
Php 3:20 For our citizenship is in the heavens, whence also a Saviour we await--the Lord Jesus Christ--
hi,
I live in England so i don't really understand American politics. I believe that since Britain conquered India and other countries, we then cannot moan when these same peoples come back to 'our' country and colonise it. Maybe our karma is catching up with us.
I'm sure the Native Americans felt pretty angry when the pilgrim fathers started coming over and taking their land (killing for it more likely). So you have to look to the past and realise that what you did (as a nation) to others will be done back to you sometime.
If we in England started saying that immigrants cannot come over because they are muslim, we would be decried as rascists. Actually there is a political party over here called British National Party and they are hated by all.
Godbless
Nancy
Quote from: Nancy on September 22, 2010, 11:34:19 PMIf we in England started saying that immigrants cannot come over because they are muslim, we would be decried as rascists. Actually there is a political party over here called British National Party and they are hated by all.
Except by their voters....
Seems Europe starting to wake up.
Quote from: WhiteWings on September 22, 2010, 11:37:37 PM
Quote from: Nancy on September 22, 2010, 11:34:19 PMIf we in England started saying that immigrants cannot come over because they are muslim, we would be decried as rascists. Actually there is a political party over here called British National Party and they are hated by all.
Except by their voters....
Seems Europe starting to wake up.
:thumbsup: heh heh
waking up. Do they really think they can guilt trip us into giving up the land of our fathers forever?
I don't think so.
PS it's my opinion that Jesus has broken the law of karma--as one sows, another reaps, that both can share the joy together.
PPS Their first year here, the Pilgrims met an Indian who spoke English and taught them how to plant corn and fish and hunt game and what to eat, saving their lives, hence the American holiday, Thanksgiving, also known as the feast of tabernacles.
Quote from: MicahFor our citizenship is in the heavens, whence also a Saviour we await--the Lord Jesus Christ--
The nations were set up by the decree of YHWH in Deuteronomy and they still exist at the end of the book of Revelation, in spite of the fact that the world is his and everything in it--the kingdom of this world will not be left to another, but to the people of God.
I've pretty much decided that the Bible gives us a peek at the ages. We are not shown much of what happened before Adam, or of what happens in the ages to come, just given glimpses of it. So we have the history of the ages from Adam to Moses and Moses to Jesus, and history tells us what has happened to this day. But, we who are born out of due time are looking forward to a city built by God--even so, freedom is my birthright, as is a Christian country,--it will not be taken away from me easily, and I expect that to remain the same despite the forces who would have it otherwise, because it is promised to me that this nation under God shall not perish from the earth.
24And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
25And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
26And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
--Rev 21
Ephesians 3:21
Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
I dont know, I used to reason like you, but I really began to take my citizenship in the higher realm of heaven serious. You say "freedom is my birthright, as is a Christian country" is not being born again (regenerated) Christ in you the hope of glory a great freedom? and as for a christian country, it is spoke of much of America and very much this year as this leadership and authority today would seems to want to take that word(christian/God) out of what America stands for; America is a special nation, as an American I love her, I am a veteran for her, America was founded on God/Providence, but was not founded on the Gospel of Jesus Christ, Christ in you the hope of glory.
For me, running the race and fighting the principalities of spiritual warefare, have nothing at all to do with what is going on today in this country. My God is on His Throne and what is happening today, in what is said to be a christian country is ALL in His plan and purpose. I pray it is HIS will be done, and as for me, in my prayers I quit trying to "steer" God into my will some time ago. If it is a Muslim take over of my town, then He, God the Father desires it to be so. Peace and Love Through Jesus
Quote from: micah7:9 on September 23, 2010, 03:58:29 PM
I dont know, I used to reason like you, but I really began to take my citizenship in the higher realm of heaven serious. You say "freedom is my birthright, as is a Christian country" is not being born again (regenerated) Christ in you the hope of glory a great freedom? and as for a christian country, it is spoke of much of America and very much this year as this leadership and authority today would seems to want to take that word(christian/God) out of what America stands for; America is a special nation, as an American I love her, I am a veteran for her, America was founded on God/Providence, but was not founded on the Gospel of Jesus Christ, Christ in you the hope of glory.
For me, running the race and fighting the principalities of spiritual warefare, have nothing at all to do with what is going on today in this country. My God is on His Throne and what is happening today, in what is said to be a christian country is ALL in His plan and purpose. I pray it is HIS will be done, and as for me, in my prayers I quit trying to "steer" God into my will some time ago. If it is a Muslim take over of my town, then He, God the Father desires it to be so. Peace and Love Through Jesus
This is exactly my view.
Quote from: Micah...is not being born again (regenerated) Christ in you the hope of glory a great freedom?
Yes, of course, but I was born into freedom, my babyhood rocked in the cradle of liberty, and then, when reborn, I saw clearly where that freedom came from. It comes from him. I know now more than ever what our Founders understood when they framed this country. I do not believe it is God's will that I allow my freedom to be stolen from me because I am aware of his opinion of Esau who sold his birthright for a bowl of pottage. He said he hated Esau. My birthright is not for sale. And, I am not above asking for what I want in prayer. I am very specific lol. I learned that from King David.
I want this country to be restored, not changed.
This is a website where there is a great collection of the [Christian] writings and biographies of our Founders. You might be surprised how influenced they were by the gospel of Jesus Christ.
www.wallbuilders.org
16 But I will sing of your strength,
in the morning I will sing of your love;
for you are my fortress,
my refuge in times of trouble.
17 O my Strength, I sing praise to you;
you, O God, are my fortress, my loving God.
--Psalm 59
Great post bro. I agree with you. As much as it would be a great thing if it were possible . . .truth, spiritually speaking, can not be legislated through government programs. I'm more of a "let the dead bury the dead" kind a guy when it comes to politics. I vote, I have my opinions, but I find that if I spend my energy pushing my political agendas, it distracts and simply wears me out from focusing on the depths of His truths in my life and others.
The one thing about the gospel in Acts, it didn't "explode" across the nations until the persecution ignited it. Perhaps that's God's intent here with us. If I pray against what I consider to be shady politicians, who's to say that I'm not praying against the Father's purpose for this country? And I'm glad that I see things this way because I really hate politics. that and relgion, I hate that to.
Quote from: NathanAnd I'm glad that I see things this way because I really hate politics.
How could you help but hate politics if you've left it to hateful people and criminals?
You wouldn't do that with your own backyard. You wouldn't leave your babies with someone you hardly know and go away and ignore them for ten years. What would you expect to find when you came back? You wouldn't do that with a business you owned.
Why would you do that with your country?
When all the good people turn their backs, who do they expect will take over the helm? A boyscout trying to get his next merit badge?
Jesus has left us in charge.
14For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
15And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey. --Matt 25
Amen!
Molly, I have been reading the Founding Fathers and find myself in a fix. I want and do root for those beginning days and years of what those men had a desire to have in a new nation. But their thinking was God and a freedom out from the bondage of religion and its controling power. There foresite was not Jesus Christ and Him crucifed, their foundation was not the Gospel. There reasoning was a nation of freedoms, liberties, and the pursuit of happiness as earthy/ natural men. Far different in my thoughts of the Kingdom of God within me.
I have a great desire to keep my eye on Him, but I am weak, I am human and I love this country America, still
Jos 3:4 only, a distance is between you and it, about two thousand cubits by measure; ye do not come near unto it, so that ye know the way in which ye go, for ye have not passed over in the way heretofore.'
QuoteJos 3:4 only, a distance is between you and it, about two thousand cubits by measure; ye do not come near unto it, so that ye know the way in which ye go, for ye have not passed over in the way heretofore.'
Yes, that's an admonition to the people. But, I believe our Founders were the priests, led by God himself.
Or how else did they come up with that document that Bush calls 'a piece of paper,' that Obama calls 'a charter,' but that has been the scourge and bane of tyrants for some 225 years?
And, if they were the priests, so should we be.
Molly, if I spent my time pursuing Christ, preaching what I pursue and not worry about the mechanics of the political system, I "think" that as the truth spreads across the nation not of political positions, but truth of the freedom of Christ, once the nation becomes transformed, the political thing will take care of itself. It's like anything else with God . . .you can't expect people to change on the outside if there's no transformation on the inside.
Trying to fight political battles now is really not all that effective. Sorry, it's just not. We've had Christian presidents and we've had not-so-Christian presidents and it's really not made that much of a difference in the nation as a whole. Now if you get the church transformed, then I guarrantee you that you'll see the political system follow suit.
I agree. I, myself do not believe that the Gospel has any relationship with politics, the Founding Fathers were good men who believed in The Creator. I doubt that the Gospel was involved, but the OT was invloved.
Quote from: micah7:9 on September 23, 2010, 05:04:13 PM
Amen!
Molly, I have been reading the Founding Fathers and find myself in a fix. I want and do root for those beginning days and years of what those men had a desire to have in a new nation. But their thinking was God and a freedom out from the bondage of religion and its controling power. There foresite was not Jesus Christ and Him crucifed, their foundation was not the Gospel. There reasoning was a nation of freedoms, liberties, and the pursuit of happiness as earthy/ natural men. Far different in my thoughts of the Kingdom of God within me.
I have a great desire to keep my eye on Him, but I am weak, I am human and I love this country America, still
Jos 3:4 only, a distance is between you and it, about two thousand cubits by measure; ye do not come near unto it, so that ye know the way in which ye go, for ye have not passed over in the way heretofore.'
What would a Christ centered kingdom country look like? I think the nearest example is Israel and as much as I like that country, some things I would not enjoy, such as the various customs, required.
But it would be great if Christians had their own country imagine the faith and the miracles that would take place, nobody would be hungry, people would love one another and live in peace, courts would not exist and God would protect us from warring nations.
Quote from: Nathan on September 23, 2010, 04:35:30 PM
Great post bro. I agree with you. As much as it would be a great thing if it were possible . . .truth, spiritually speaking, can not be legislated through government programs. I'm more of a "let the dead bury the dead" kind a guy when it comes to politics. I vote, I have my opinions, but I find that if I spend my energy pushing my political agendas, it distracts and simply wears me out from focusing on the depths of His truths in my life and others.
The one thing about the gospel in Acts, it didn't "explode" across the nations until the persecution ignited it. Perhaps that's God's intent here with us. If I pray against what I consider to be shady politicians, who's to say that I'm not praying against the Father's purpose for this country? And I'm glad that I see things this way because I really hate politics. that and relgion, I hate that to.
If I pray against what I consider to be evil, I allways try and add, according to they will, father let it be done. That means that it's up to the father to execute the prayer according to his perfect will.
Quote from: thinktank on September 23, 2010, 10:13:10 PM
Quote from: micah7:9 on September 23, 2010, 05:04:13 PM
Amen!
Molly, I have been reading the Founding Fathers and find myself in a fix. I want and do root for those beginning days and years of what those men had a desire to have in a new nation. But their thinking was God and a freedom out from the bondage of religion and its controling power. There foresite was not Jesus Christ and Him crucifed, their foundation was not the Gospel. There reasoning was a nation of freedoms, liberties, and the pursuit of happiness as earthy/ natural men. Far different in my thoughts of the Kingdom of God within me.
I have a great desire to keep my eye on Him, but I am weak, I am human and I love this country America, still
Jos 3:4 only, a distance is between you and it, about two thousand cubits by measure; ye do not come near unto it, so that ye know the way in which ye go, for ye have not passed over in the way heretofore.'
What would a Christ centered kingdom country look like? I think the nearest example is Israel and as much as I like that country, some things I would not enjoy, such as the various customs, required.
But it would be great if Christians had their own country imagine the faith and the miracles that would take place, nobody would be hungry, people would love one another and live in peace, courts would not exist and God would protect us from warring nations.
Boggles the mind. But wow, what a thought!!!
Hard enough to imagine a nation being kingdom-oriented on every level, but how about the entire world? That's going to be some experience when the Father reveals himself to every man and every knee responds.
Now "that's" the kind of politics I'd be interested in!!
As far as how I believe and understand the Word, that nation has been here since Jesus accepted the Will of the Father and went to the cross. Man has just used what means of his reason to desire a more superfical and carnal nation that lines up with what the Bible says and not what the Bible teaches. God is Spirit. God is Love.
Joh 4:23 but, there cometh an hour, and it now is, when the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father also doth seek such to worship him;
Joh 4:24 God is a Spirit, and those worshipping Him, in spirit and truth it doth behove to worship.'
Joh 6:63 the spirit it is that is giving life; the flesh doth not profit anything; the sayings that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life;
I believe man has not come to that place, man is still blind and cannot see, and does not here what the Spirit is saying to the called out.
It is just my 2 cents. Peace and Love Trhough Jesus
Men can come to that place, but not if the man in them is leading the way. This is not something my flesh and blood reasoning can articulate of it's own accord. We see what we see not because we studied really hard and have read many commentaries and translations. We see what we see because the Father has revealed it and his Grace has allowed it to be seen in us.
Quote from: Tony N on October 29, 2008, 03:51:53 AM
Quote from: Paul Hazelwood on October 28, 2008, 11:39:00 PM
Hi Tony,
Let me clarify what I want you to answer more specifically.
Discrimination is not always bad depending upon the means and circumstance in which it is excersized, in this case it is a convenient word to avoid stating directly the greater implication of what you want.
I sometimes assume the poster is from America and that is not always the case.
If you are an American Tony..... Answer this question.
Do you want to form a squad to go out and assassinate all the muslims in this country?
I am a U.S. citizen. American is too broad a term. And American can live in Canada, United States, Central America or South America.
No, forming a squad to assassinate all the muslims would put us on the same murderous plane that they are on. Instead we should deport them before they murder us.
Last time I was in England in 2000 the Muslims were taking over that country with a birthrate of about 9 children to the British woman's one child. In France they are looting and torching if they don't get their way. In Morocco they blow up trains etc. In Africa they have been murdering hundreds of thousands to get their way. They have one goal: Make the Islamic religion the world wide religion.
By the way, those over a million murdered Armenians were Christians.
BTW SoTw, Christians in the middle ages were not just going out and murdering people. They were being overrun by Islamic Turks etc. and we were having to take our land back that they raped and pillaged.
tony....I don't believed muslims took over the planes and smash the towers.
it the inside jobs and it always have been.
Some choose not to believe what happened to the Jews in Germany either, it's all in the perspective of the individual.
Maybe it was an inside job, but do these people work for the unites states government? unlikely.
These orginizations are linked together and all have their reasons, but there's no reason for the unites states to attack it's own people, it might benefit a few frauds and secret agents within but not the whole.
:2c: