The lake of fire or Le lac de feu

[Cardinal]

By saying "so", he was just talking hip.  By saying Abraham, I'm not sure what he was talking about.  :bigGrin:

:laughing7:

[Nathan]

Ha . . I just got that "so" and "hip" joke . . .

I wonder if something isn't happening in transit with posting . . .I think I'm writing it so it can be read, then I go back and reread what I wrote and half the letters seem to disappear . . wonder if their not "soul" related!!  Ha!!  Get it . . they "disappear" in "transit" kinda like in the "transition" from natural life to natural death . . .(crickets chirping) . . . never mind.

I'm done for the day, I'll check in tomorrow morning with ya . . .

Blessings.

[micah7:9]

left humor :sigh:

[Cardinal]

Ha . . I just got that "so" and "hip" joke . . .

I wonder if something isn't happening in transit with posting . . .I think I'm writing it so it can be read, then I go back and reread what I wrote and half the letters seem to disappear . . wonder if their not "soul" related!!  Ha!!  Get it . . they "disappear" in "transit" kinda like in the "transition" from natural life to natural death . . .(crickets chirping) . . . never mind.

I'm done for the day, I'll check in tomorrow morning with ya . . .

Blessings.

:cloud9: :laughing7:

[Novus-Ordo-Seclorum7]

Just a little input from L.Ray Smith "Exposing those who Contradict" Page 11  and the Soul part is page 4


http://bible-truths.com/fulltext/fulltext.htm

                                       TV ANALOGY

Here is an analogy that is applicable and easy to understand: God's spirit gives life to the body. Only in life does a man have consciousness or sensation. When God takes back His spirit, the body and soul are dead.

Picture a TV console as representing the human BODY with all its intricate circuitry and components.

Now picture ELECTRICITY as the invisible, powerful force representing God's life-giving SPIRIT.

Picture the blank PICTURE TUBE as representing the SOUL.

Without the electricity (God's spirit), the TV and picture tube (body and soul) are dead. All the time I hear preachers talking about our souls and our spirits as if they were one and the same. Soul and spirit are not one and the same.

Next plug in the electricity (God's spirit). The TV comes to life, and we see the picture tube (soul) animated. We see color, sound, dancing, singing, talking, intelligent conversations, all live via satellite. The dead TV becomes a living, visible, animated, intelligent entity-"Soul." But notice very carefully, the Soul (the animated picture in the TV tube) is not one of the original components. It is not a component in and by itself, but is rather the result of two other vital components, Body and Spirit (the TV console and electricity).

At bedtime I sometimes tell my daughter to give the TV a rest. When one turns off the "on/off" switch the TV goes to "sleep." The power light is still on, but the TV is blank and silent.

But now, pull the plug and take away the electricity (spirit) and what happens to the TV console (body)? It dies. It's just a box of circuits. Not even the power light is on anymore. If left unplugged it will, in time, decay and return to the dust of the ground.

And what happens to the colorful animated picture on the screen (soul) when we take away the electricity (spirit)? Want the real answer? Ask a child. Let several children watch TV together, then pull the plug and ask them where the picture went? A child will shrug his shoulders or say "I don't know" or say "It disappeared." Guess what? He is Scripturally correct on all three counts.

Without spirit there is no life and no consciousness. Without power a TV has no life and no animated picture. It's dead.

If you were to ask an ancient Hebrew person what happens to the soul (the thinking, feeling, animated, sentient personality of a man) at death, he would shrug his shoulders or say "who knows" or just say "it disappears." That's what "Sheol" meant to the Hebrews. It was a question mark. And the Greeks had their word for the same idea (Hades-the UNSEEN, the IMPERCEPTIBLE), and hades and sheol are synonymous in Scripture (Acts 2:27).

There is one more profound Scriptural truth that is also perfectly analogous to the operation of a TV, and that is this. Picture God's Throne as the Broadcast Headquarters. The TV picture Tube, by itself, is not the source or originator of the picture it portrays on the screen. It is a channel for the signal transmitted from the TV Station and Tower. It can only manifest and portray on its screen that which is sent from the source [God]. And often the source [God] uses intermediaries like satellites [Angels] to relay the signals.

In Scripture, death is called a "return" [Heb. shub]. Before we were born we had no body, no soul, and no perception of any kind. At birth God gave us a body, implanted to us His spirit, which gives the body perception (through the brain and the five senses). At death, we [shub] RETURN. The reversal of what happened at birth. The spirit returns to God (Ecc. 12:7), the body returns to the dust (all the elements of man's body are found in the ground or earth) (Job 10:9, Ecc. 3:18-21), and the soul returns to no perception again (the imperceptible or unseen-hades) (Acts 2:27 and Psalm 49:15). This is what the Scriptures very plainly teach: where all that man "is" came from, that's where all that man "is" returns to.


                                                SOUL

When a man dies his soul goes to the unseen or imperceptible [Gk: hades, Heb: sheol]. We also know that when man is in this condition (dead) it is likened to "sleep" (Psa. 13:3, Dan. 12:1-2, Jn. 11:11-14). God Himself likens death to sleep, "The Lord said unto Moses [concerning his imminent death], Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers ... " (Deut. 31:16) This is substantiated by the fact that: "The living know that they shall die, but the dead know not anything" (Ecc. 9:5,6). Again: " ... for there is no work, nor device [contrivance, intelligence, reason], nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in sheol." (Ecc. 9:10).


This whole Book is really worth it's weigh in Silver.

[CHB]

Before God breathed into Adam he was a dead soul after God breathed into Adam he became a living soul.

CHB

[micah7:9]

Before God breathed into Adam he was a dead soul after God breathed into Adam he became a living soul.

CHB

Before God breathed into man, he was dead, he was clay, dust of the ground.
Get it?
When the Lord God breathed

[thinktank]

I beleive you have come closer to enlightening me than many. If I understand  you, I would have to say that "thinking" is what most have taken the occasion to call "soul." I cant get past the Word in Gen. 2:7 that man became a living soul or creature. And as you say animals are living creatures so they are souls; not that they "have a soul."
Yes we as humans think, and the way I understand it, should you think long enough on a thought, that in turn gives fuel for your desire, this is called imagination. Now imagination is something animals, living creatures(souls) do not have, they have instinct.
Ezk. 18:4 and 20 read "....the soul that sinneth, it shall die."
Rom 3:23  for all did sin, and are come short of the glory of God

So the soul(the individual) dies.

Jas 1:14  and each one is tempted, by his own desires being led away and enticed,
Jas 1:15  afterward the desire having conceived, doth give birth to sin, and the sin having been perfected, doth bring forth death.

I appreciate your kind comments Micah, thank you and also Nathan's
God bless

[Beloved Servant]

Card,
Remind us that when God breathes OUT, He also breathes IN.

[thinktank]

Card,
Remind us that when God breathes OUT, He also breathes IN.

AHH nice one :happy3:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: My  :2c:.....Just because something is unseen and inperceptible by human eyes, does not make it non-existant. If it did, you'd have to take heaven away, too.

Just to make it plain, I'm not stating there is a hell; I'm saying there is a purgatory-type experience for the soul. There is a difference. Saying this is no different than saying there's a cross for the flesh. Flesh is not meant there as literal flesh, but the things of flesh like lust, hate, murder, ect., that are real but in the unseen realm just as the soul is.

So; since the soul is defined as mind, will, emotions, and desires, ie. what makes you, YOU, which are not sensory experiences, tell me then what of man is saved, and when is it saved? And if none of these is saved, then what's the point?

The saints that are coming in the clouds with Him, is that a literal physical body appearance and if so, do their bodies have a soul? And if so, how'd that happen since it died already for them to be in heaven, according to this no-soul concept?

And if you say, He created a new soul for them, then why is it He can't do that with the one He already gave them, you know, the "dead" one?

The ones that rose from the dead and were seen of many, did they have a soul again? Or do you think they were only spirits without a body, in which case, how did they RISE instead of coming down from heaven, since the spirit would have already returned to the One who sent it? And if you say it was only their body that arose, then what of their soul?

The body is not the soul, and neither is the spirit the soul, which is why we are spirit, SOUL, and body, not spirit and body. The soul is feminine, the feminine aspect of ADAM, and God Himself said it is not good for man/Adam/spirit to be alone, ie. without his soul = dead.

As for the dead knowing nothing, the dead know only as much as they knew in life, but they know nothing of the wisdom of the Spirit that will help their condition, they await the Savior, which is why He had to go preach to them the LIFE that would enable them to raise. And the last time I looked, the dead bodies were not buried in the HEART of the earth.

Which is why necromancy, summoning up the dead SOUL to talk to for direction, ect., is forbidden, because the soul knows nothing more without the Spirit of Christ, than they did while alive in the body. It is the Spirit of Christ we are to seek to hear and receive direction from.  

Incidentally, necromancy spirits are alive and well in the churches today, and they are not having seances. Ever cringe after a certain point when people stood up and gave their "testimonies"?

Though well-meaning usually, after so long of them going on and on and on about how "bad" they used to be, the things they used to do that were sin (usually in great detail), ect., pretty soon you sense by the Spirit something is not right.

What just happened is, a spirit of necromancy just raised up, because they just "raised that person from the dead" and brought him back to "life" again. This is why Paul did not go on and on about all the evil he did, and why he said, "Reckon yourselves DEAD", which seems contradictory to all the scriptures about how we now have LIFE.

But again, the Word speaks to us "fractionally", ie. some apply to the spirit, some apply to the soul, some apply to the body, some apply to the whole man, some apply to nations of men, some apply to mankind. Blessings....

[Cardinal]

Card,
Remind us that when God breathes OUT, He also breathes IN.

:cloud9: LOL.....yes, shared that once before.  :thumbsup:

[micah7:9]

Card,
Remind us that when God breathes OUT, He also breathes IN.
What does that mean?

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: He breathes "out", your spirit goes into a flesh body, you literally live; He breathes "in", the spirit returns to the One who sent it = you literally die. Blessings....

[Beloved Servant]

                                                                        let there be light

[micah7:9]

I say goodnight, but I dont understand. And still why is this in the lake of fire post?

[WhiteWings]

Before God breathed into Adam he was a dead soul after God breathed into Adam he became a living soul.

CHB

Before God breathed into man, he was dead, he was clay, dust of the ground.
Get it?
When the Lord God breathed

So plants are also souls?

[CHB]

Before God breathed into Adam he was a dead soul after God breathed into Adam he became a living soul.

CHB

Before God breathed into man, he was dead, he was clay, dust of the ground.
Get it?
When the Lord God breathed

Wasn't that what I said?

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and BREATHED INTO HIS NOSTRILS THE BREATH OF LIFE; AND MAN BECAME A LIVING SOUL" (Gen. 2:7).

If man became a living soul when God breathed life into him, he must have been a dead soul before.

CHB

[WhiteWings]

But does it also mean man was dead before?

[CHB]

But does it also mean man was dead before?

Well, he wasn't alive. What is the opposite of alive? :bigGrin: I guess it all depends on what one considers dead to be.   My dictionary says dead is "without life".

The verse shows that man wasn't alive until God breathed into him the breath of life then he became a living soul.  Did God breath a soul into him or did the soul already exist and God just brought it to life by breathing into it?

CHB

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: The soul already existed. He took her out of Adam's heart and made her into a visible form to show her to him. Rib is as a side, the same word there is used for Noah's ark's boards. Side, though, does not carry the same thought as we think of side; it's more like an opposite, but equal, opposite being one is spirit, one is flesh but the lesser reflects the greater. It's like looking into a body of water or a mirror. Compare this thought with image and likeness.

He poured Himself into His creation, but because it has visibility, it is as the lesser glory, just as the wife/soul is the lesser glory of the man/spirit, and the letter is the lesser glory of the Word that is eternal. This is why the creation mirrors attributes of His glory/nature. Blessings....

[WhiteWings]

:cloud9: The soul already existed. He took her out of Adam's heart and made her into a visible form to show her to him. Rib is as a side, the same word there is used for Noah's ark's boards.

A rib is the only body part when amputated correctly grows back :winkgrin:
The Y-chromosome is alos missing a side compared to the X-chromosome :msealed:

[CHB]

(Ezek. 18:4) "the soul that sinneth, it shall die."

If our soul is spirit and goes on to the Father when we die as some believe, then why does this say "the soul that sinneth it shall die"

If our soul is spirit and goes on to be with God or retained in some holding place, that would mean it didn't die, but this verse says differently.

According to this verse the soul dies when the body dies.

CHB

[WhiteWings]

If our soul is spirit

I think it's not. :2c:

[Nathan]

I'm still not set one way or another on this, but CHB the passage you quote is again, an Old Testament passage.  Christ brought resurrection to that which "was" dead.  Secondly, I think this would increase the significance to the fact that Eve did take and eat the forbidden fruit first . . .but nothing happened.  She represents the soul.  She sinned and nothing happened.  It wasn't until she "fed" it to Adam (first step of disorder happens when my mind feeds my spirit . . .should always be the other way around)  And he ate it.  Adam represents my spirit. 

Having ungodly thoughts isn't the problem.  "Acting" on those thoughts is when consequences emerge.  If we don't want to act on them, then we should be taking authority over them . . .thus Hebrews 10 tells us that our spirits are to "take captive our thoughts".