Welcome to 1984

[Molly]

Firstly I'm not sure all those systems are already in place at this early stage.

Dunno.  That's what he said.  It would make sense they were.  We know something failed because the well blew.

To late in this case because when the rig fell over the pipes jammed/damaged the devise.

The rig falling over is the source of the whole leak from the well head.  What made the rig fall over?  The coast guard piling two days of sea water on it, in my book.

Don't forget, these rigs hold up under hurricanes.

But what if that pipe it self is damaged. If the plumbing (pipes) in your house (sea floor) is broken closing your tap (safety devise) has no effect.

well, then you have a third problem.  And what would cause that?  They are thinking maybe they caused the underground fracturing themselves when they were pumping all that mud in over labor day.  But maybe the pressure of the well itself caused it and it happened when the well blew.  They are not yet officially admitting there are any underground fractures.  If there are, it's not good.

[WhiteWings]

The rig falling over is the source of the whole leak from the well head.  What made the rig fall over?  The coast guard piling two days of sea water on it, in my book.

BP will hire you as a lawyer that's for sure. Assuming the coast guard made the rig fall over does that make them responsible for teh oil spil? Shouldn't BP have started the permant sealing/capping device way before that.

Don't forget, these rigs hold up under hurricanes.

It depends a bit on what kind of rig it was.
Because of the depth I assume a floating rig. Perhaps a cable snapped because of the explosion.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Types_of_offshore_oil_and_gas_structures.jpg)More info

But what if that pipe it self is damaged. If the plumbing (pipes) in your house (sea floor) is broken closing your tap (safety devise) has no effect.

well, then you have a third problem.  And what would cause that?  They are thinking maybe they caused the underground fracturing themselves when they were pumping all that mud in over labor day.  But maybe the pressure of the well itself caused it and it happened when the well blew.  They are not yet officially admitting there are any underground fractures.  If there are, it's not good.

There seems to be a large spil 5 miles from the rig. If true, that proves the oil traveled 5 miles in a semi-horizonal way through the sea floor. Capping the well will only force more oil to that place. I don't know the specifics about the sea floor but I guess it's lots of mud. So to contain 600 bar the pipe must have snapped at great depth. Just speculating... maybe the pipe didn't snap at all under the sea floor.
If the drilling hole is wider than the actual pipe oil will escape from though the space on the sides. I think that's what cementing (click here) is all about. Cementing done by Halliburton, who is magicly never mentioned in the news...

So right now the only fix seem to be to plug the hole at a huge depth. Way below the sea floor. But that's impossible with this huge pressure. So a new hole needs to be drilled to take of the pressure. That will take months.
I'm no PR drone of BP but I think they are doing the best they can now. Just because the rather concentrate on selling the stuff.....

All we can hope for is that the next time security is in place. But I have little hopes if the so called fool proof devices that only cost 500k aren't installed.
My guess is that many rigs don't have it installed....

[Nathan]

That was painfully true . . .

[Molly]

Did Fireboats Sink the Oil Rig?Some clues from a maritime disaster in February 1942.

By Bryce Hall Posted Thursday, May 6, 2010, at 6:57 PM ET

Here's what we know for sure about the disaster in the Gulf of Mexico: On April 20, the Deepwater Horizon oil rig exploded, killing 11 people onboard; 36 hours later, it sank into the ocean. Investigations are under way to determine the cause of the accident and how it might have been prevented. So far, these have focused on what caused the explosion in the first place (was it a bad cementing job by Halliburton?) and what caused a blowout preventer safety device to fail. But it may be just as important to figure out why the oil rig capsized and sank beneath the waves. This latter event may have turned a manageable disaster into a full-scale catastrophe.

In the first hours after the explosion, most of the spilled oil was burning off in the fire, and the initial damage estimates were small. But when the Deepwater Horizon turned over on its 400-foot pontoons, the mile-long pipe that connected it to the underwater wellhead collapsed like a mess of spaghetti. Now the oil is leaking from this jumbled steel on the ocean floor at two sites where the pipe buckled and broke. If the first rescue crews on the scene had somehow been able to prevent the rig from sinking, they might have disconnected the pipe safely and capped it near the surface.

So what happened? The fireboat crews tried to extinguish the flames as quickly as possible so they might board the oil rig to search for survivors and contain the spill. In the end, though, their efforts to battle the fire may have made the situation worse. By pouring hundreds of thousands of gallons of water and flame-retardant foam onto the rig, it's possible that the fireboats helped sink the Deepwater Horizon.


The oil rig appeared to be floating in the water with a slight list when the initial rescue crews showed up. According to one of the people coordinating the response, Capt. Farhat Imam, the rig did not seem in imminent danger of sinking. (At that point, there was just a "minimal sheen of oil" on the water, he says.) As the fire raged on, the list increased, and then the platform really began to tip over during the six hours before it finally capsized on April 22. Fireboats had continued to pour water and flame-retardant foam onto the rig the whole time.

At the moment, there's no way to know how much the rescue effort contributed to the sinking. It's possible that the blaze was hot enough to melt the steel superstructure of the oil rig [molly: unlikely--you need temperatures around 3000 degrees F to melt steel], which could have shifted enough weight to make it capsize regardless of the water and foam. But photos of the rig as it was going under show the largest structural members still intact, although the smoke and flames make it difficult to see clearly.

The USS LafayetteEventually we may be able to survey the wreckage of the oil rig with submersibles and determine exactly what caused it to sink. But the suggestion that fireboats might be responsible has at least one major historical precedent. When the SS Normandie made her maiden voyage in 1935, she was the largest passenger liner ever built—more than 150 feet longer and 20,000 tons heavier than the RMS Titanic. During World War II, the Normandie was renamed the USS Lafayette, and the U.S. government set about converting her into a troop transport ship in New York Harbor. In February 1942, a spark from a welder's torch started a fire that soon engulfed the entire vessel. Workers rushed to extinguish the blaze, pouring water onto the ship from the adjacent piers and from fireboats in the river.

Much of that water fell on the upper decks, filling compartments and making the ship top-heavy. When the liner began listing to port, the water flowed into compartments on that side, which moved the center of gravity farther away from the centerline of the hull—and the ship capsized into the icy Hudson. Its burned-out carcass blocked one of the largest piers in the harbor for the next 20 months, until it could be righted at last and towed to a scrap yard.

Rescue crews today understand the risk of capsizing a fiery ship. The National Fire Protection Association's guidelines for responding to marine vessel fires explain that "vessels suffer a loss of stability as water utilized in the fire fighting accumulates above the original center of gravity. ... If this vulnerability is not properly understood and controlled, the consequences can impact all fire-fighting efforts severely." As a vessel begins to list, the guidelines describe "devastating consequences" in which a "domino effect can quickly compound an already aggravated situation."

These safety considerations have become more important because fireboats now have increased pumping capacity. Most modern fireboats have the capacity to blast more than 10,000 gallons of water per minute. (New York City fireboats can pump up to 50,000 gallons per minute.) Since one gallon of seawater weighs about 8.5 pounds, 10,000 gallons of water weighs more than 42 tons. At that rate, just one fireboat can pump around 2,500 tons of water every hour.

Only a small proportion of that weight would have been brought to bear on the oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico—much of the liquid pumped at a maritime fire ends up boiling off or spilling into the sea. Still, experienced maritime firefighters concede that a significant amount is likely to have collected in the upper decks of the rig.

Transocean and BP, the companies that owned and leased the Deepwater Horizon, have declined to discuss what may have contributed to the sinking. In time, the investigation may determine that the sinking of the oil rig was inevitable after the April 20 explosion. But it would be shortsighted to discount the possibility that our initial response to the disaster contributed to its enormous scale. An oil slick of historic size is now threatening to devastate the marine environment from Louisiana to Florida. We all have a stake in understanding what happened to prevent anything like it from ever happening again.

http://www.slate.com/id/2253193

[WhiteWings]

Now the oil is leaking from this jumbled steel on the ocean floor at two sites where the pipe buckled and broke. If the first rescue crews on the scene had somehow been able to prevent the rig from sinking, they might have disconnected the pipe safely and capped it near the surface.

That still doesn't explain the other oil spill. Or... perhaps because of the rig tipping over the pipe cracked way below the sea floor??

At the moment, there's no way to know how much the rescue effort contributed to the sinking. It's possible that the blaze was hot enough to melt the steel superstructure of the oil rig [molly: unlikely--you need temperatures around 3000 degrees F to melt steel],

True.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire (halfway down the page)
I would say the fire was 1470F at hottest.
But.... way before steel melts it gets weaker. OTOH I don't believe the steel got that hot. Firstly the color of the flames indicate it was not hot. And the huge quantities of water from the fireboats sure kept the steel a bit cooled too.

Most modern fireboats have the capacity to blast more than 10,000 gallons of water per minute. (New York City fireboats can pump up to 50,000 gallons per minute.) Since one gallon of seawater weighs about 8.5 pounds, 10,000 gallons of water weighs more than 42 tons. At that rate, just one fireboat can pump around 2,500 tons of water every hour.

I just assume that as a fact.
But if that water just flows of the rig the weight calculations are of no use. A flat steel surface just gets wet not heavier.

Transocean and BP, the companies that owned and leased the Deepwater Horizon, have declined to discuss what may have contributed to the sinking.

Doesn't that prove they don't think it's because of the fireboats? It would be a perfect way to shift blame.

[WhiteWings]

Is this true???
Under the Oil Pollution Act of 1990 federal courts cannot impose damages in excess of $75 million on any oil firm responsible for a spill.

Yes, it's true.  Congress is talking about changing the law lol.

Boehner: Government--i.e. Taxpayers--Should Help Pay For Oil Spill

[Molly]

Boehner: Government--i.e. Taxpayers--Should Help Pay For Oil Spill

I agree with this.  At any rate it's going to happen.  Take that tarp  or stimulus money and spend it on this.  The expense already, from destroyed fishermen,  tourism, beaches, ecosystem,  etc, is incalculable.  We have to help out our Gulf brothers.

I keep thinking this administration is just trying to figure out how to use this catastrophe to  1) stick it to BP and 2) pass their energy agenda.  Driving BP into bankruptcy is not going to serve any purpose and just create more victims {British pensioners, employees, etc}.  Better to cut a deal with BP that plays out over years for the benefit of the Gulf.  And, his energy agenda can go pound sand.  Give us the Tesla technology they have been hiding from us for 100 years instead of windmills.

That still doesn't explain the other oil spill. Or... perhaps because of the rig tipping over the pipe cracked way below the sea floor??

My current understanding-- When the rig went down, it pulled the pipe down with it and cracked it [in two places?] above the sea floor.   They tried to cap that spill first, without success, and then they cut the pipe off nearer the well head and now have capped that--but that seems to have increased the flow, and it looks like they are afraid to close the baffles on their new connector, because it is still flowing out around the connection at a high rate as we see on tv.  Now they are collecting some of the oil from it at the surface with ships.  [more than 17K barrels a day?]  Did you see the robots cutting the pipe?  Amazing.

Below the sea floor--that's another story.  If the blowout happened because of a faulty cement job [Halliburton], and partly because of the huge pressure of this well,  there's no telling what is going on below the sea floor.  At least, they're not telling us yet.

But if that water just flows of the rig the weight calculations are of no use. A flat steel surface just gets wet not heavier.

The rig has lots of compartments where men work, sleep, eat.  To me, they filled the compartments with water causing the rig to list and fill the compartments more.  Classic.  It's what sank the Titanic.

[WhiteWings]

Give us the Tesla technology they have been hiding from us for 100 years instead of windmills.

I've found this old, VHS quality documentary that was aired on Australian TV. If you want it contact me by PM.
The Eye of the Storm- The Inventions of Nikola Tesla

That still doesn't explain the other oil spill. Or... perhaps because of the rig tipping over the pipe cracked way below the sea floor??

My current understanding-- When the rig went down, it pulled the pipe down with it and cracked it [in two places?] above the sea floor.

Yes, the pipe was leaking in 2 or 3 places. That's clear. But that's above the sea floor (cracked pipe is on not below the sea floor)
The pipe isn't 5 mile long either. And the second oil spill comes out of the sea floor (like a well). Not out of a pipe.

Below the sea floor--that's another story.  If the blowout happened because of a faulty cement job [Halliburton], and partly because of the huge pressure of this well,  there's no telling what is going on below the sea floor.  At least, they're not telling us yet.

But if that water just flows of the rig the weight calculations are of no use. A flat steel surface just gets wet not heavier.

The rig has lots of compartments where men work, sleep, eat.  To me, they filled the compartments with water causing the rig to list and fill the compartments more.  Classic.  It's what sank the Titanic.

Yeah I know about those area's. I just wonder if they hold any water. An open door and cracked windows and it gushes out again...????
Hurricane proof means it's a very sturdy construction. But if the cabling snapped as a wrote a few messages above the rig wasn't hurricane proof anymore.

All in all I think a leaking pipe is quite easy to fix. Cap it with a concrete slab. Or dump concrete cube on it and then cement them shut.
It has been done before that way. But IF the pipe really cracked way below the sea floor like some experts fear it's a whole new ball game...

[WhiteWings]

Nuclear Option on Gulf Oil Spill? No Way, U.S. Says
Nuke the oil spill: Could nuclear bomb be answer for huge leaks as at US Gulf coast?

Detonating Nuclear Bomb at BP Oil Spill Site... Might Produce a Bad Result

Before they consider that option, they might want to watch this video of Dr. Gregory Ryskin, Professor of Chemical Engineering at Northwestern University. In the video, Dr. Ryskin explains how a prehistoric methane gas explosion could explain the Permian-Triassic Extinction Event, a mysterious period in Earth history where 95% of all species went extinct.

Given that the amount of methane gas that is leaking from the BP spill site is at least equal to the amount of oil, it would lead one to believe that there is a huge underground pocket of methane gas buried there. Now, if Dr. Ryskin's theory is correct, not only would detonating a nuclear bomb near that underground methane pocket end the oil spill, it might end all life on Earth as well.

Nuke the oil spill?

But the worst case scenario, says Andrew Leonard at Salon, would be a "chain reaction" leading to a massive release of frozen natural gas in the seabed — potentially wiping out most of the life on planet Earth.

I'm wondering if it's really needed to cap that well.
Just place some huge hollow dome(s) over the spill(s). Pipe from the dome to the surface. Oil spill stopped and oil can be sold.
The only problem is that they can't adjust the output of the well. But that's of later concern...

[WhiteWings]

BP Official Admits to Damage BENEATH THE SEA FLOOR

As I noted Tuesday, there is growing evidence that BP's oil well - technically called the "well casing" or "well bore" - has suffered damage beneath the level of the sea floor.

The evidence is growing stronger and stronger that there is substantial damage beneath the sea floor. Indeed, it appears that BP officials themselves have admitted to such damage. This has enormous impacts on both the amount of oil leaking into the Gulf, and the prospects for quickly stopping the leak this summer.

BP destroys proof
Evidence Points To BP Oil Spill False Flag
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/06/02/obama.oil.spill/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aw-tVGgE50
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19591
http://translate.google.be/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wanttoknow.nl%2Fwetenschap%2Fenergie%2Fis-de-bp-olieramp-een-inside-job%2F&sl=nl&tl=en

[Molly]

BP's prepared testimony briefing, which has since leaked online, also intriguingly notes that the Hydraulic Control System on equipment designed to automatically seal the well in an emergency was modified without their knowledge sometime before the explosion.

"the extent of these modifications is unknown at this time" states the report on page 37.

Possible prior knowledge of the explosion is also evident via huge dumping of stocks and shares in the weeks and days prior to the incident.

Smoking gun?  I wonder if no one was supposed to survive that blast to tell the tale...

Halliburton, the second largest oil operating company in the world, buys on 12 April, one week before the explosion of the "Deepwater Horizon 'oil platform, a small specialist company' Boots & Coots' that specializes in putting out oil fires and the sealing of blow outs of oil wells. Dit bedrijf heeft meer dan 200 van de 700 oliebranden gedoofd die tijdens de Golfoorlog aangestoken waren in Koeweit bij de terugtrekking van Iraakse soldaten. This company has more than 200 of the 700 put out oil fires during the Gulf War in Kuwait were ignited by the withdrawal of Iraqi troops.



Last month, during a political hearing, Halliburton has admitted under oath that a seal with cement operation conducted 20 hours before the oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico went up in flames. Volgens de aangespannen rechtszaken hebben 4 Halliburton medewerkers, die gestationeerd waren op het olieplatform, fatale fouten gemaakt bij het afdichtingsproces van de 450 ton zware 'fool & fail proof´ stalen afsluiter van de oliebron. According to the lawsuits have brought four Halliburton employees who were stationed at the oil platform, fatal mistakes in the process of sealing the 450 ton 'fool & fail-proof steel valve of the oil well.


Possible knowledge of the disaster may be associated with large-scale dumping of shares in the weeks and days before the explosion. Goldman Sachs heeft 44% van z'n aandelen in BP Olie gedumpt. Goldman Sachs has 44% of its shares in BP Oil dumped. Deze aandelen hebben inmiddels 36% van hun waarde verloren ter waarde van 96 miljoen dollar. These shares have now lost 36% of their value amounting to $ 96,000,000. Andere bedrijven in de beurshandel hebben ook grote hoeveelheden BP aandelen verkocht. Other companies in the stock trading have large amounts of BP shares were sold. Maar de 'Wachovia' holding van Goldman die in het bezit is van 'Wells Fargo' maakt het nog bonter door 98% van z'n BP aandelen te verkopen en de Zwiterse bank UBS verkocht 97% van z'n BP aandelen. But the "Wachovia" holding of Goldman in the possession of "Wells Fargo" makes it even gayer by 98% of its BP shares to sell and the Swiss bank UBS sold its 97% of BP shares.
Verder in de London Telegraph van 5 Juni staat dat Tony Hayward, de hoogste directeur van BP, een aantal weken voor de ramp 1.4 miljoen pond aan BP aandelen verkocht heeft. Later in the London Telegraph of June 5 is that Tony Hayward, the top director of BP, several weeks before the disaster, 1.4 million pounds of shares sold to BP.

Interesting, since their MO is always the same.  "They" shorted 911, too.  Strange, we never did find out from the mainstream news who did that.

Just place some huge hollow dome(s) over the spill(s). Pipe from the dome to the surface

I had the same thought lol.  Those robots could build Atlantis.

All in all I think a leaking pipe is quite easy to fix. Cap it with a concrete slab. Or dump concrete cube on it and then cement them shut.

Yeah.  It happens all the time, which makes you think there might be something different about this one [leak underground] other than it's under 5000 feet of water.

Nuke the oil spill?

Way, way too risky.  Just put that one out of your head.  If we see them doing that, we'll know it is a last resort of desperate people.

Here's What You Need To Know About The $2.2 Trillion Gulf Economy Being Threatened By The Leak
The Gulf States have a GDP of $2.2 trillion

Hang in there, Gulf states.   Hopefully, help is on the way.  We're praying for you.

[Cardinal]

 :sigh: Got this in an email.....

Gulf Oil Spill 'Could Go Years' If Not Dealt With
By F. William Engdahl
June 10, 2010

The Obama Administration and senior BP officials are frantically working not to stop the world's worst oil disaster, but to hide the true extent of the actual ecological catastrophe. Senior researchers tell us that the BP drilling hit one of the oil migration channels and that the leakage could continue for years unless decisive steps are undertaken, something that seems far from the present strategy.

In a recent discussion, Vladimir Kutcherov, Professor at the Royal Institute of Technology in Sweden and the Russian State University of Oil and Gas, predicted that the present oil spill flooding the Gulf Coast shores of the United States "could go on for years and years ... many years." 1

According to Kutcherov, a leading specialist in the theory of abiogenic deep origin of petroleum, "What BP drilled into was what we call a 'migration channel,' a deep fault on which hydrocarbons generated in the depth of our planet migrate to the crust and are accumulated in rocks, something like Ghawar in Saudi Arabia."3 Ghawar, the world's most prolific oilfield has been producing millions of barrels daily for almost 70 years with no end in sight. According to the abiotic science, Ghawar like all elephant and giant oil and gas deposits all over the world, is located on a migration channel similar to that in the oil-rich Gulf of Mexico.

As I wrote at the time of the January 2010 Haiti earthquake disaster,3 Haiti had been identified as having potentially huge hydrocasrbon reserves, as has neighboring Cuba. Kutcherov estimates that the entire Gulf of Mexico is one of the planet's most abundant accessible locations to extract oil and gas, at least before the Deepwater Horizon event this April.

"In my view the heads of BP reacted with panic at the scale of the oil spewing out of the well," Kutcherov adds. "What is inexplicable at this point is why they are trying one thing, failing, then trying a second, failing, then a third. Given the scale of the disaster they should try every conceivable option, even if it is ten, all at once in hope one works. Otherwise, this oil source could spew oil for years given the volumes coming to the surface already." 4

He stresses, "It is difficult to estimate how big this leakage is. There is no objective information available." But taking into consideration information about the last BP 'giant' discovery in the Gulf of Mexico, the Tiber field, some six miles deep, Kutcherov agrees with Ira Leifer a researcher in the Marine Science Institute at the University of California, Santa Barbara who says the oil may be gushing out at a rate of more than 100,000 barrels a day.5

What the enormoity of the oil spill does is to also further discredit clearly the oil companies' myth of "peak oil" which claims that the world is at or near the "peak" of economical oil extraction. That myth, which has been propagated in recent years by circles close to former oilman and Bush Vice President, Dick Cheney, has been effectively used by the giant oil majors to justify far higher oil prices than would be politically possible otherwise, by claiming a non-existent petroleum scarcity crisis.

Obama & BP Try to Hide

According to a report from Washington investigative journalist Wayne Madsen, "the Obama White House and British Petroleum are covering up the magnitude of the volcanic-level oil disaster in the Gulf of Mexico and working together to limit BP's liability for damage caused by what can be called a 'mega-disaster.'" 6 Madsen cites sources within the US Army Corps of Engineers, FEMA, and Florida Department of Environmental Protection for his assertion.

Obama and his senior White House staff, as well as Interior Secretary Salazar, are working with BP's chief executive officer Tony Hayward on legislation that would raise the cap on liability for damage claims from those affected by the oil disaster from $75 million to $10 billion. According to informed estimates cited by Madsen, however, the disaster has a real potential cost of at least $1,000 billion ($1 trillion). That estimate would support the pessimistic assessment of Kutcherov that the spill, if not rapidly controlled, "will destroy the entire coastline of the United States."

According to the Washington report of Madsen, BP statements that one of the leaks has been contained, are "pure public relations disinformation designed to avoid panic and demands for greater action by the Obama administration. , according to FEMA and Corps of Engineers sources." 7

The White House has been resisting releasing any "damaging information" about the oil disaster. Coast Guard and Corps of Engineers experts estimate that if the ocean oil geyser is not stopped within 90 days, there will be irreversible damage to the marine eco-systems of the Gulf of Mexico, north Atlantic Ocean, and beyond. At best, some Corps of Engineers experts say it could take two years to cement the chasm on the floor of the Gulf of Mexico. 8

Only after the magnitude of the disaster became evident did Obama order Homeland Security Secretary Napolitano to declare the oil disaster a "national security issue." Although the Coast Guard and FEMA are part of her department, Napolitano's actual reasoning for invoking national security, according to Madsen, was merely to block media coverage of the immensity of the disaster that is unfolding for the Gulf of Mexico and Atlantic Ocean and their coastlines.

The Obama administration also conspired with BP to hide the extent of the oil leak, according to the cited federal and state sources. After the oil rig exploded and sank, the government stated that 42,000 gallons per day were gushing from the seabed chasm. Five days later, the federal government upped the leakage to 210,000 gallons a day. However, submersibles monitoring the escaping oil from the Gulf seabed are viewing television pictures of what they describe as a "volcanic-like" eruption of oil.

When the Army Corps of Engineers first attempted to obtain NASA imagery of the Gulf oil slick, which is larger than is being reported by the media, it was reportedly denied the access. By chance, National Geographic managed to obtain satellite imagery shots of the extent of the disaster and posted them on their web site. Other satellite imagery reportedly being withheld by the Obama administration, shows that what lies under the gaping chasm spewing oil at an ever-alarming rate is a cavern estimated to be the size of Mount Everest. This information has been given an almost national security-level classification to keep it from the public, according to Madsen's sources.

The Corps of Engineers and FEMA are reported to be highly critical of the lack of support for quick action after the oil disaster by the Obama White House and the US Coast Guard. Only now has the Coast Guard understood the magnitude of the disaster, dispatching nearly 70 vessels to the affected area. Under the loose regulatory measures implemented by the Bush-Cheney Administration, the US Interior Department's Minerals Management Service became a simple "rubber stamp," approving whatever the oil companies wanted in terms of safety precautions that could have averted such a disaster. Madsen describes a state of "criminal collusion" between Cheney's former firm, Halliburton, and the Interior Department's MMS, and that the potential for similar disasters exists with the other 30,000 off-shore rigs that use the same shut-off valves. 9

Silence from Eco groups?... Follow the money

Without doubt at this point we are in the midst of what could be the greatest ecological catastrophe in history. The oil platform explosion took place almost within the current loop where the Gulf Stream originates. This has huge ecological and climatological consequences.

A cursory look at a map of the Gulf Stream shows that the oil is not just going to cover the beaches in the Gulf, it will spread to the Atlantic coasts up through North Carolina then on to the North Sea and Iceland. And beyond the damage to the beaches, sea life and water supplies, the Gulf stream has a very distinct chemistry, composition (marine organisms), density, temperature. What happens if the oil and the dispersants and all the toxic compounds they create actually change the nature of the Gulf Stream? No one can rule out potential changes including changes in the path of the Gulf Stream, and even small changes could have huge impacts. Europe, including England, is not an icy wasteland due to the warming from the Gulf Stream.

Yet there is a deafening silence from the very environmental organizations which ought to be at the barricades demanding that BP, the US Government and others act decisively.

That deafening silence of leading green or ecology organizations such as Greenpeace, Nature Conservancy, Sierra Club and others may well be tied to a money trail that leads right back to the oil industry, notably to BP. Leading environmental organizations have gotten significant financial payoffs in recent years from BP in order that the oil company could remake itself with an "environment- friendly face," as in "beyond petroleum" the company's new branding.

The Nature Conservancy, described as "the world's most powerful environmental group,"10 has awarded BP a seat on its International Leadership Council after the oil company gave the organization more than $10 million in recent years. 11

Until recently, the Conservancy and other environmental groups worked with BP in a coalition that lobbied Congress on climate-change issues. An employee of BP Exploration serves as an unpaid Conservancy trustee in Alaska. In addition, according to a recent report published by the Washington Post, Conservation International, another environmental group, has accepted $2 million in donations from BP and worked with the company on a number of projects, including one examining oil-extraction methods. From 2000 to 2006, John Browne, then BP's chief executive, sat on the CI board.

Further, The Environmental Defense Fund, another influential ecologist organization, joined with BP, Shell and other major corporations to form a Partnership for Climate Action, to promote 'market-based mechanisms' (sic) to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

Environmental non-profit groups that have accepted donations from or joined in projects with BP include Nature Conservancy, Conservation International, Environmental Defense Fund, Sierra Club and Audubon. That could explain why the political outcry to date for decisive action in the Gulf has been so muted. 12

Of course those organizations are not going to be the ones to solve this catastrophe. The central point at this point is who is prepared to put the urgently demanded federal and international scientific resources into solving this crisis. Further actions of the likes of that from the Obama White House to date or from BP can only lead to the conclusion that some very powerful people want this debacle to continue. The next weeks will be critical to that assessment.

[WhiteWings]

At best, some Corps of Engineers experts say it could take two years to cement the chasm on the floor of the Gulf of Mexico.

Ha! So it's now admitted the sea floor is leaking.

I guess Cheney can't sleep of excitement:
- 2+ years of cementing jobs for Halliburton.
- Well closing by Boots & Coots. Weeks before the spill aquired by Halliburton.
- Cleaning by subcontractors hired shortly before the spill.

Luckily Trans Ocean, owner of the rig, had it insured for double it's value.

[Molly]

Obama: Gulf spill 'echoes 9/11'

Sounding reflective as he heads into a bruising electoral season, President Barack Obama told POLITICO columnist Roger Simon that the Gulf disaster "echoes 9/11" because it will change the nation's psyche for years to come.


Obama — facing mounting criticism of his handling of the BP gusher, even from longtime allies — vowed to make a "bold" push for a new energy law even as the calamity continues to unfold. And he said he will use the rest of his presidency to try to put the United States on a course toward a "new way of doing business when it comes to energy."


"In the same way that our view of our vulnerabilities and our foreign policy was shaped profoundly by 9/11," the president said in an Oval Office interview on Friday, "I think this disaster is going to shape how we think about the environment and energy for many years to come."


Previewing his message for the midterm congressional elections in November, the president said: "The Democrats in Congress have taken tougher votes, have worked harder under more stressful circumstances, than just about any Congress in our memory. And they've done a great job and deserve reelection."


"So I'm going to be fighting on their behalf and doing everything I can and using my bully pulpit to communicate that fact to the American people," he said. "I know there's an anti-incumbent mood out there right now because ... people are frustrated about the hit that the economy has taken. ... But what I'm going to remind people of is we didn't create this mess. And this Congress responded forcefully at a time when this economy really could have fallen off a cliff."



Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0610/38468.html#ixzz0qoOMUQOg





John Hofmeister, former president of Shell Oil, founder and CEO of Citizens for Affordable Energy, Inc.


Newport News, Va.: Mr. Hofmeister: President Obama, according to many, can't seem to do anything right re: the spill. In your mind, what could the administration have done differently and better that would have had a marked effect on the recovery effort so far?


John Hofmeister: In my opinion the White House and the President should have gotten up close to the tragedy from day one and been a part of the team at the outset. Instead they held back and jumped in when things weren't going well, as if they had better ideas. Then it all got politicized very quickly when the rhetoric and bullying started in earnest in response to increasingly loud complaints.

Quiet and intense conversation between the key parties is preferable to shouting out loud and "kicking ass." The White House went public to embarrass BP and went over the top by shutting down perfectly safe drilling rigs across the deepwater. It chose to not even talk with the BP CEO. You have to talk to people to solve problems.

It's not too late but it does no good to go down the bully path and the criminal path rightaway. It freezes people in place and builds disrespect and mistrust.



Washington, D.C.: No offense but don't you think the reason people are not listening to your ideas about a flotilla of supertankers sucking up oil is because, like Tony Hayward, they presume you have some financial motivation to say what you are saying? BTW, do you?

John Hofmeister: People might assume that I have a financial interest, except I don't. In my conversations with BP and the Coast Guard the first thing I said was that I have no monetary or financial interest direct or indirect in whether they choose to go this route or not. I simply want to see oil taken out of the ocean and destroyed not wash up on beaches and into marshes.



Aberdeen, S.D.: Would it be possible to equip fishing, larger cargo type ships and or naval ships with portable oil water separtion devices to start remediating the slicks in-situ?

John Hofmeister: Yes. Some of us have been proposing barges to serve as barrier walls with suction pumps and separators on board as well as supertankers to suck the oil off the water and dispose of it in refineries along the coast.





Peaks Island, Maine: What grade would you give Adm. Allen on his descriptions of the process for stopping the flow?

For his explanations of the leak rate determinations and the importance thereof?


John Hofmeister: The Admiral has done a consistently good job of telling it like it is in language that most people can follow. That's a tough task. Fortunately he is a direct, no-nonsense speaker who cares deeply about doing the right thing. My only disagreement with him to date is the refusal to use the suck and salvage method of oil recovery. He preferes burning, dispersing, booming and skimming. I don't think it does a good enough job by themselves. We need more to get more oil off the ocean.



Bethesda, Md.: Would you say the best minds are occupied with finding a way to cap the oil, but no one is minding the business of the execution such as making sure the booms are well placed, and frequently replaced when they have satured? One can obviously see the booms method of cleaning is not working.

John Hofmeister: You characterize it as I do. The scientists and engineers are primarily focused on the well.

The clean up is not getting enough attention or original thinking. We should be able to collect far more oil with pumps and storage systems than we are.




Bethesda, Md.: You mean is the government's decision to use burning, dispersing, booming and skimming? It is not BP's decision?

John Hofmeister: Anything affecting the sea and land is the government's responsibility. They decide and BP provides the resources to execute the tasks.



Arlington, Va.: You have complained that the administration is showing "anti hydrocarbon tendencies". Why is this a bad thing?

John Hofmeister: Hydrocarbons are now and will remain a critical part of our energy system. We've been developing and producing them for over a century. We can't turn them off with a switch and move to something different. In my book "Why We Hate the Oil Companies: Straight Talk from an Energy Insider" I describe a fifty year road map that essentially takes us off most hydrocarbons. Current politicians talks like we can do this in ten or so years. Impossible and impractical, as well as unnecessary. We'll bankrupt the nation if we did because none of the new alternative forms of energy is commercial yet, meaning we have to subsidize it to buid it.



Anonymous: I have heard that The Jones act is preventing us accepting help in skimming the oil up. Could you please tell us about that

John Hofmeister: The Jones Act requires American made vessels be used in US waters. Since we hardly build any ships anymore, there are few qualifed vessels. Our own law is prohibiting more resources from being applied. Sounds silly and it is. Sad but true.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2010/06/10/DI2010061004195.html



My conclusion:  Obama only gets his 911 and his drastic energy policies passed and his bankrupting of the country if the oil spill is NOT cleaned up.  It is his decision not to suspend the Jones Act and not to call in the supertankers and the barges to employ high volume suck and salvage strategies described by John Hofmeister.  What else could be his reason for such neglect?  Instead they are pouring millions of gallons of toxic chemicals on the Gulf [Corexit] which many say is making everything worse, and trying to suck up a mammoth oil leak through a straw.  Comments? :dontknow:

Is anybody's psyche changed?

[WhiteWings]

My guess is that nothing will be done with Halliburton involved.
If they can clean up the mess in 10 days for $1/day without Halliburton.
Or in 10 years for $500k/day with Halliburton.
Guess what the choice will be.

Because Halliburton doesn't earn from tankers it doesn't own such idea's won't happen.
That's my idea...

[WhiteWings]

Tech update - movie
Slides of the above.
http://www.sitelab.nl/projects/bp/topkill_fout.jpg

[WhiteWings]

The leaks in the sea floor seems to be 'normal' in that area.
There a 30 meter/100 foot high petrified oil/asphalt hills of ancient oil spills.

Gulf Oil Spill-Gutsy Solution Restores Environment in Just Six Weeks Hu????  :mshock: :msealed: :mblush: :dontknow:
http://spillfighters.com/

[Molly]

The leaks in the sea floor seems to be 'normal' in that area.
There a 30 meter/100 foot high petrified oil/asphalt hills of ancient oil spills.

Gulf Oil Spill-Gutsy Solution Restores Environment in Just Six Weeks Hu????  :mshock: :msealed: :mblush: :dontknow:
http://spillfighters.com/

People have been begging them to do this for weeks [microbes],  It's proven to work by Texas.

People have been begging them to bring in the supertankers for weeks.  They will not do it.

People have been begging them to stop dumping millions of gallons of toxic chemicals into the Gulf.

Now he's down there community organizing fishing boats and pleasure crafts to try to do what one supertanker could do in a day.

He has almost successfully destroyed the entire Gulf economy in two months.  And, I'm tired of being called, "Folks."

God help us.

[Molly]

BP has used Corexit 9500A and Corexit 9527A thus far, applying 800,000 US gallons (3,000,000 l) total,[6] but more accurate estimates run as high as 1,000,000 US gallons (3,800,000 l) underwater.[7]

According to the Alaska Community Action on Toxics, the use of Corexit during the Exxon Valdez oil spill caused "respiratory, nervous system, liver, kidney and blood disorders" in people.[9] According to the EPA, Corexit is more toxic than dispersants made by several competitors and less effective in handling southern Louisiana crude.[15] The UK's Marine Management Organisation has banned its use in the North Sea.[16][17][18][19]

Reportedly Corexit is toxic to marine life and helps keep spilled oil submerged. The quantities used in the Gulf will create 'unprecedented underwater damage to organisms.'[20] 9527A is also hazardous for humans: 'May cause injury to red blood cells (hemolysis), kidney or the liver'.[21]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corexit

[WhiteWings]

Cleaners already get sick of Corexit.

Microbes: Ofcourse I'm aware of 'oil eating' microbes. Microbes is how nature solves many things. It's the speed that amazes me. But if you read carefully it only works in calm water. Near the beaches. What about the rest of the sea?
It could very well be those microbes die in Corexit.
Corexit dissolved oil is no longer real oil....

[Molly]

 

What about the rest of the sea?

One more time, altogether:  SUPERTANKERS

[WhiteWings]

Supertankers are good for storage/transport. But can they actually clean up the oil on the surface and perhaps even more important the corexit mixure below the surface?

[Molly]

Supertankers are good for storage/transport. But can they actually clean up the oil on the surface and perhaps even more important the corexit mixure below the surface?

YES yes YES lol

Or, we could just eat a snowcone and chill.

Headlines from Drudgereport tonight--




LA Gov. Takes Matters Into Own Hands -- Orders Barrier Wall Off Shore...



Obama goes to Gulf, enjoys a snowcone...

Eats shrimp...

...And crawfish...

...And crab cakes...

...And seafood salad...

'Come down here and visit'...

Liberal DC think tank running White House response?

NEVER LET A SERIOUS CRISIS GO TO WASTE: PRESIDENT TO PUSH FOR ENERGY BILL DURING OVAL ADDRESS...

Florida Keys Residents Plan Their Own Cleanup...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GALLUP: Obama's Weekly Job Approval Rating Skid...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[WhiteWings]

Maybe the bill must be signed before any cleaning takes place.

Change...

[Molly]

Maybe the bill must be signed before any cleaning takes place.

Change...

you mean he's holding the Gulf hostage?


In Florida Keys, Residents Plan Their Own Spill Cleanup
By Nathan Thornburgh / Key West Monday, Jun. 14, 2010


A small island in the middle of a big ocean, Key West has always made a virtue of its isolation. In 1982, for example, an onerous Border Patrol checkpoint on U.S. Route 1, which links the Keys to mainland Florida, resulted in the island's declaring itself the autonomous Conch Republic. This was, of course, mostly a joke ("We Seceded Where Others Failed" was its e pluribus unum), but the mayor's declaration of independence did include a twinge of real anger and a vow that "we have no intention of suffering in the future at the hands of fools and bureaucrats."

Now, facing the possibility that oil from the Deepwater Horizon spill could arrive on its reefs and beaches in the coming weeks, many in the Florida Keys are once again angry about perceived fools and bureaucrats. In particular, they've watched how BP has monopolized and, in the eyes of many, mismanaged the oil cleanup in the northern Gulf of Mexico and are frantically trying to organize an independent local response.(See pictures of the oil spill.)

"We cannot wait. We have to be prepared," says Dan Robey, whose website KeysSpill.com has gathered 4,000 volunteers, including 300 boat captains, who have offered to help before and after any potential arrival of oil. As Patrick Rice, dean of marine science and technology at Florida Keys Community College, puts it, "We will not allow the inept responses that have been happening up north to happen here."

But there's a problem with their plans for grass-roots activism: BP (and the Deepwater Horizon's Unified Command, which BP runs with the Coast Guard and other agencies) has so far insisted on complete control of the cleanup operations. A BP spokesman told TIME that the only appropriate way for interested boat captains to become involved would be to register with the Unified Command's Vessels of Opportunity program. Never mind that according to BP's numbers, only a third of the 7,200 boats "under contract" through the program are in active service. Robey says captains in the Keys haven't even been able to register. "It's a joke, a total joke," he says. "Our people have called them for over a month. They don't return phone calls." (Watch TIME's video "Portraits from the Oil Spill.")

Uncertainty is another complicating factor. Locals want to start preparing now, even though it's unclear how much oil will arrive and in what form — sheen, plume, tar ball or all three. And BP and the Coast Guard won't start really organizing, or funding, a response yet. "The general feeling is that BP has been reluctant to support advanced preparation," says Laura Fox, owner of Danger Charters in Key West. "The Coast Guard's big party line is that until oil is imminent — within 72 hours — nothing is going to be done. That's not enough time to protect the 180 miles or more of shoreline that we have in the Keys."

So without waiting for protocol, the Keys are making preemptive strikes. A group called Adopt a Mangrove is assigning kayakers their own mangroves to clean if oil comes. Volunteers are monitoring shores throughout the islands for signs of oil. The Florida Keys Environmental Coalition formed to connect boat captains, scientists, environmental activists and various agencies. Fox coordinated a cleanup of Man Key, a mangrove island west of Key West (oil is easier to clean off a beach that is in good condition). "It was all women, actually," she says. "Thirteen women in kayaks, clenching knives in their teeth, cutting monofilament fishing line off the mangroves and clearing trash. We brought 35 bags of trash off the island."

See 12 people to blame for the oil spill.

See pictures of critters caught in the oil spill.



Read more:

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1996441,00.html