Welcome to 1984

[micah7:9]

But our desire for truth is our umbilical cord to Jesus.  :happygrin:

Sorry I spelled umbilical cord. Go for it, Im sure you will glue it all together cause you can. :bigGrin:

[Molly]

Here we go. :mblush:  And, so it begins.. :sigh:


Earth must prepare for close encounter with aliens, say scientists

UN should co-ordinate plans for dealing with extraterrestrials – and we can't guarantee that aliens will be friendly

Evolution on alien worlds is likely to be Darwinian, which may mean extraterrestrials share our tendencies for violence and exploitation

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/jan/10/earth-close-encounter-aliens-extraterrestrials

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: They're just throwing the door open now, instead of leaving it at a crack, aren't they?  :sigh:

[eaglesway]

The crack is widening and it is the gate of Abbadon.     

[Aleax]

So "the powers that be" want to stage an alien invasion?

[WhiteWings]

Illegal aliens from Mexico  :laughing7:

[thinktank]

Trust someone to speak of aliens today, because today I found a piece of evidence in scripture that may suggest they might be among us in the days of Gods wrath. Us as in the human race, I don't think followers of christ will be on the earth, some will be hidden in places on earth, and others in heaven, possibly even some will live and escape judgment on the moon, which is scientifically possible, I have also found a scripture which supports this idea too.
:2c:

[Aleax]

I don't think followers of christ will be on the earth, some will be hidden in places on earth, and others in heaven, possibly even some will live and escape judgment on the moon, which is scientifically possible, I have also found a scripture which supports this idea too.
:2c:

That's interesting. After abandoning my belief in the rapture I've always assumed saints would go through the tribulation.

Btw I'm not sure if believe in the "Clock Stoppage at the 69th Daniel's Week theory" either. I do believe in a tribulation, but I'm not so sure if it's going to be a seven year period as the tradition has taught (many of) us. 

[Aleax]

"Aliens" can possibly be demons/fallen angels masquerading as aliens. I've read some accounts of people (allegedly) being visited by them, and often their message was "there is no God, we created your religions". Who would like us to believe in things like that?

[thinktank]

I think a pret trib is possible but a mid trib that people speak of is the likliest, but it is also misleading, because it says mid trib, in my opinion a mid trib is actually pretrib in terms of time and the pre trib doesn't exist, I side with you that the tribulation lasts 3 and a half years and not 7 years.

Jesus said or Paul  :mblush:when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, in the temple of God, look up your redemption draweth nigh.

That to me means that, there won't be any beheading until he enters the temple, making an image in the temple and I think by the time he does this there is only 3 and a half years left which starts the great tribulation.

But I think the 4 and half years before it, is a time of war, when the little horn of Daniel rises up to fight the transgressors unite the 10 horns of the beast and becomes the head of the beast, but he won't have world wide power until he comes out of the bottomless pit.

That's interesting. After abandoning my belief in the rapture I've always assumed saints would go through the tribulation.
Aleax

According to scripture, if His people are not ready he will discipline them with fire Revelations letter to the churches. Many christians will be beheaded, they won't have enough oil/faith to escape, but God will be with them.

[Nathan]

I don't think followers of christ will be on the earth, some will be hidden in places on earth, and others in heaven, possibly even some will live and escape judgment on the moon, which is scientifically possible, I have also found a scripture which supports this idea too.
:2c:

That's interesting. After abandoning my belief in the rapture I've always assumed saints would go through the tribulation.

Btw I'm not sure if believe in the "Clock Stoppage at the 69th Daniel's Week theory" either. I do believe in a tribulation, but I'm not so sure if it's going to be a seven year period as the tradition has taught (many of) us.

After abandoning your belief in the rapture . . .why would you continue to hold on to tribulation?  Going through tribulation is part of the rapture theory.  Where is the love of God manifesting in this "doom and gloom" synopsis?  The same mindset that embraces the existence of eternal hell also embraces the coming of a great tribulation to the earth  in the "last days".  Which, by the way, they never explain what the last days are the last days "of".  I think the implication is the last days of the existence of man . . .even though out the other side of their mouths they declare men will live forever with Jesus . . .

I do see there are last days . . .and I also agree that we could very well be in the last day of those days . . .but for me, it's the last day of the creative and dimensional 7 days originating in Genesis.  We've passed through the first 6 days (a day is a thousand year principle) and we're just now entereing into the 7th . . .but I think their rendition of the last day has a much different ending that what I see the Sabbath Day . .which is the last day of the seven . . .is bringing to us.  I see the Sabbath bringing complete restoration . . .they see the last day bringing complete destruction.

[thinktank]

I think its good to be optimistic, possbily there is a chance that the world will repent and therefore the great tribulation won't have to happen.

[WhiteWings]

I think its good to be optimistic, possbily there is a chance that the world will repent and therefore the great tribulation won't have to happen.

That'n not possible TT.
IF tribulation is in the Bible then it will happen. If not then the Bible is flawed

[Nathan]

or the interpretation is flawed, in which case, people are being alarmed about a lot of nothing.  Isn't the theory of the Great Tribulation as the church supports it to be, in contrast with the nature of God . .just as eternal torment is as well?  We're still saying that even though God isn't going to eternally torment all men as many suppose, but he still is going to destroy all men in the end?  It seems to be a contradictory of beliefs here . . .how can one cast aside eternal torment and still embrace Great Tribulation?

I don't get it at all.

[thinktank]

Because it is a consistent pattern.

Blood sacrifice was part of the old testament, and blood sacrifice is one of the major doctines of the new testament.

Et was not part of the old testament, but destruction is part of the old testament.

So ET is against Gods character but killing destroying people is not against his character.

Besides he not going to kill all men, the scripture says whats left of the nations will come to worship in Jerusalem every year, and their swords shall be turned into ploughs.

God is above our ways, and when we think of God we sometimes put him in a box, because maybe we have spent time in his presence and we think, "how can such peace, destroy". But God is also a God of justice and honour and not just of peace, if He wants to destroy His enemies, who are we to stand in his way. Don't you know that Gods anger is at boiling point? (Not a revealtion, I mean it is said in revelation that the winepress will overflow with His anger) He has kept his anger at bay for about 2000 years, the vats are filling with the winepress of his anger.

I don't know if the great tribulation can be stopped, but I do know that repentance will play a big part, in terms of how much suffering the world goes through and which nations will suffer the most, for God protects His people.

[WhiteWings]

This may come as a shock TT. I agree with your post :thumbsup:
It's often said ETs try to sugarcoat their doctrine.
But some URs try to sugar coat the Bible.
You are very right TT. there was a flood, Sodom was destroyed, God was a general in many wars, etc.
With a reason... fine. No problem with that view.
But right now He can have equally good reasons.

[Aleax]

Nathan, I believe in a tribulation because the Bible mentions it, and

a) I cannot embrace the doctrine of Preterism. I'd have to spiritualize and allegorize too much of Revelation in order to believe in that.

b) There often seems to be trouble at the end of the eons. The Angelic eon ended with a disruption. The Eon of Conscience ended with God flooding the world. The Millennial eon will end with the greatest apostasy ever, and the world being destroyed by fire. Keeping this in mind, I don't believe the end of the current eon will be a walk in a park, either. I think there's a good chance the global economy will fail. Today's news had some expert predicting the Euro will collapse in 2013. Many EU countries are in deep trouble, U.S. has been in trouble for some time now. China seems strong though. Yeah, honestly I find it kind of depressing the future seems to be set in stone. But the good news is, I believe the eventual reconciliation of all things at the Consummation of the Eons has been set in stone, too.

[jabcat]

I was also thinking maybe it's both things.  Cataclysmic (tribulatory) events, then the ushering in of the next age.  However, I'm certainly no eschatalogical expert...I barely was able to spell the word.

[WhiteWings]

You you can uze my spellzjecker James  :icon_jokercolor:

Some believe the events at Sodom were triggers by a (God sent) comet. The rain of fire was the tail/debris of that comet.
(it even impacted on a peak of the Alps.
The other part of the story is that that comet also was 'here' during other main Biblical events. It was here at regular intervals. The next calculated arrival is one of a full impart. Soon..... (wormwood)
True? Don't confuse me with Biblical stuff :laughing7: but doesn't the Bible say there will be no more judgement with water (flood) but the next judgement will be with fire?
Yeah yeah. I know spiritual.
The people at Noach's time drowned in spiritual water. Others were roasted with spiritual fire and brimstone. And many were killed with spiritual sword and bow and arrows. Perfect Jesus only was nailed spiritually to the cross.

Sidenote: I'don't believe there will be litteral beats with multible heads, and horse with a scorpions tail and similar.

[Nathan]

No, no, you're missing my point here.  I never said there isn't destruction.  What I'm saying is . . .I just don't see God destroying the very beings he created in his own image.  That would be him destroying the likeness of himself.  I totally believe there is a destruction . . .but for me, it's not outwardly . . .it's inwardly.  The carnal man in me is what's being destroyed, not men, but the man in men.

And just for the record . . .it "appears" that one of these posts were implying I may be preterist . . . I will agree that I do see the majority of Revelation has physically already happened, I just can't go all the way and say everyrthing in God's original plan has already been completely accomplished.  I "do" think we are to pusue the things which are above (spiritual) rather than set our minds on the things below (natural). 

And one of the places I "would think" would have been a prime place to declare it if it were to be of primary concern, would be when Jesus went into the temple and declared his intentions

Luke 4:18
The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

No sign of a great tribualtion . . .

In fact, he even DID say IN THIS WORLD you will have trials and tribulation . . .BUT . . .be of good cheer . . .I'VE OVERCOME THE WORLD.

And yet the church clings on to the tribulation rather than proclaim the overcoming power in a world where tribulation dwells.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: A tribulum = threshing instrument for wheat = removing the chaff off the GOOD SEED = Christ IN US, the hope of glory being manifested (means to unveil or uncover) AS the glory. We are our own "world", a microcosm of a macrocosm. My  :2c: Blessings.....

[Nathan]

So when others coin the phrase . ."you're in your own little world, aren't you . . ."   it's actually a spiritual truth after all!!  Except it's not little . . .it's as crazy huge as our natural galaxies around our earth.  The stars that make our inner worlds shine are the illuminatons from those around us who's rays of truth pass in and through us.  I'm likin' this a lot!!!

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9:  :thumbsup: Yes......stars are those lights that we look up to in the night-time of our souls. The fathers and mothers (coverings) that have to be removed (veil of the "heavens" rent) at maturity, so that HE can be our only covering = the manifestation described in a nutshell.  :winkgrin: Blessings....

[WhiteWings]

:cloud9: A tribulum = threshing instrument for wheat = removing the chaff off the GOOD SEED = Christ IN US, the hope of glory being manifested (means to unveil or uncover) AS the glory. We are our own "world", a microcosm of a macrocosm. My  :2c: Blessings.....

Tribulum... that's a nice wordplay :laughing7:
θλίψις
thlipsis
Thayer Definition:
1) a pressing, pressing together, pressure
2) metaphorically oppression, affliction, tribulation, distress, straits
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: from G2346
Citing in TDNT: 3:139, 334

θλίβω
thlibō
Thayer Definition:
1) to press (as grapes), press hard upon
2) a compressed way
2a) narrow straitened, contracted
3) metaphorically to trouble, afflict, distress
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: akin to the base of G5147
Citing in TDNT: 3:139, 334
τρίβος
tribos
Thayer Definition:
1) a worn way, a path
Part of Speech: noun feminine
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: from tribo (to "rub", akin to teiro, truo, and the base of G5131, G5134)
τράγος
tragos
Thayer Definition:
1) male goat
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: from the base of G5176

τραῦμα
trauma
Thayer Definition:
1) a wound
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: from the base of titrosko (to wound; akin to the base of G2352, G5147, G5149, etc.)

I'll stop here with the Greek because the word defenitions keep linking and branching out to lots of other meanings.
Hebrew is simpler. Just one meaning:
צר  /  צר
tsar
BDB Definition:
1) narrow, tight
2) straits, distress
3) adversary, foe, enemy, oppressor
4) hard pebble, flint
Part of Speech: adjective
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: from H6887
Same Word by TWOT Number: 1973a, 1973b, 1974a, 1975a

[eaglesway]

God has tied the spiritual and the physical together ever since He breathed into Adam and he became a living soul. What happens to our bodies, even as with Jesus' crucifixion, is crucial. Yield your bodies as a living sacrifice, and do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. It is all one. The destruction of the outer man occurs as we yield our bodies- or else, because he that saves his own life shall lose it, the destruction is forced upon us as discipline from the Lord, who is merciful to hinder us when we cling to the world and carnal nature. Where time and eternity meet God is dealing with man, and the destruction is often physical and spiritual at once.

I see tribulation in general as the Father's way of wresting our clutching fingers off of the life lived for the flesh. Just as Pharoah commanded that the Israelites makes bricks with no straw, causing destruction to many. Pharoah meant it for evil but God meant it to get the Israelites in a mind to leave. Before the last great Exodus of this age, God will raise up the adversaries in order to be glorified in them. For those whose vessels are full of oil, it matters not if tribulation come today or tomoro, they will be hidden in the secret place of God, even if their bodies are destroyed in martyrdom. The secret place is the grace to face whatever God has ordained for each one of us....and it may be different for each one of us. For those who are foolish and live in the flesh.... they will not be hidden, and destruction will come upon them in the night.  "Awake O sleepers, and Arise from the dead, and the light of Christ will shine upon you!" We ought to pay close attention to the prophetic word, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in our hearts. We are children of the day- the night cannot take us as a thief- now or ever. Let us so speak and so act as children of the day and watch, for the night approaches, when no man can work.   The night will come to everyone, as will the Day. So, Today, if you hear His voice..... therefore while there remains a promise of entering, let us enter His rest, having ceased from our own works, and our own words too ;o)