The lake of fire or Le lac de feu

[CHB]

WE ARE!:
The abyss that contains no darkness!

WE ARE!:
The Lake of Fire!

You might be the lake of fire but not me. I'm not death, I'm life. And I'm in the book of life, not death.

My understanding is, the grave, or death and the spiritually dead are the one's that go into the lake of fire. This is the death of all death, physical and spiritual. I believe when we become as Paul was we have already experienced the lake of fire and second death. Paul was dead to sin and alive in Christ. He claimed no works of his own. He was dead to the law. (Rom. 6:11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.   (2Cor. 4:16) For which cause we faint not: but though our OUTWARD MAN PERISH, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

I believe our outward man must perish, this is the second death.

CHB

[WhiteWings]

Before you can have life you must die. The lake of fire only burns up, annialates the wood, hay and stubble, the dross, the stuff that Father does not want. It is Christ in me the hope of glory, the only way to that glory is by God fire. Matt.3:11 Lu. 3:16

^ASVMat 3:12 ASV  Matthew 3:12 whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly cleanse his threshing-floor; and he will gather his wheat into the garner, but the chaff he will burn up with unquenchable fire.

Note that the wheat and the chaff are from one plant.

[Beloved Servant]

A good read:
www.kingdombiblestudies.org/savior/SOW7.htm

Brother Preston's anointed pen writes beautifully.
He answers thoughtful letters sent through traditional mail.

[micah7:9]

Before you can have life you must die. The lake of fire only burns up, annialates the wood, hay and stubble, the dross, the stuff that Father does not want. It is Christ in me the hope of glory, the only way to that glory is by God fire. Matt.3:11 Lu. 3:16

^ASVMat 3:12 ASV  Matthew 3:12 whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly cleanse his threshing-floor; and he will gather his wheat into the garner, but the chaff he will burn up with unquenchable fire.

Note that the wheat and the chaff are from one plant.

Yes that is true but the Holy Ghost and Fire is the threshing instrument He seperates.

[Molly]

Not all who die go through the lake of fire.

3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.



8Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

--Rom 6

[Cardinal]

:cloud9: :cloud9: So we should swallow the full preterist view instead?

There were two thieves on either side of THE cross. One wanted Him to come down (it is finished BEFORE the death to self) if He be the son of God, and the other wanted Him to remember Him WHEN He came into His kingdom (He was ALREADY King).

One is too soon (preterists), the other too late (let me die to inherit), but the Truth dwells directly in the middle, the NOW is the day of your salvation.

He is in the NOW, ie. whatever revelation He brings to you to conform you into the image of the Son in the NOW, that is the twinkling of an eye (speaks of understanding by illumination of the Spirit/light) by which we are changed from glory terrestrial (natural fleshly understanding) to glory celestial (spiritual understanding from the mind of Christ).

And since the sons of God are Christ in His many-membered body, and since God's Word cannot lie, He WILL have a body He can lay His head (FULL authority) on. Blessings....

Then there will never be a manifestation of the sons of God, because it will always be NOW; unless you are saying that the Sons ARE being manifest NOW.

:cloud9: I don't think you understood what I said previously about Him appearing in the NOW. NOW is the twinking of an eye, the revelation from the Spirit that is outside the framework of time. So because it is not bound by time, it is always NOW in the Spirit. Blessings....

but the NOW as written in the first century, was with "ishmaels" still present, and "isaacs" "few" coming forth (the era of pentacost).  So tomorrow's NOW will still be the same, as so will a billion years from  "NOW".  There will never be a moving as you say, on to the tabernacles or manifestation of sons; because there will never be a fulfillment of the "whole body".  It will always be an ongoing process, a few NOW, and many not NOW, just as the NOW was then.  

yeah, maybe outside of time it IS fulfilled, but it will never happen in time.  And Paul and gang used NOW to refer to that time, not "in the spiritual realm" imo.  

probably not making any sense to anyone but me.  

 

I understood you to say, that preterist view is wrong, because NOW is still happening.  Well, whenever you say the NOW is not happening anymore (sons manifest, or tabernacles fulfilled); someone will come in and say your a preterist.  

:cloud9: [I disagree with the preterist view as I understand it]  because it encourages people to think all is done and they should just sit on their laurels and wait to die a natural death and go on to "glory", instead of, He did it for us, BUT we have to press in to appropriate all that was done, by the dying to self. It is the epitome of faith without works. Christ in us, is the glory waiting to be revealed.

It essentially, as the thief on the cross, tries to bypass the work of the cross by claiming it is all already done, so take yourself down if you be the son of God. It was done IN Him before He ever went to the natural cross, and there is an inner working that should be going on in us as well. Blessings....

[Tony N]

Not all who die go through the lake of fire.

3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.



8Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

--Rom 6

And Judas hung himself. Now can we get back to the lake of fire topic? :)

[micah7:9]

A good read:
www.kingdombiblestudies.org/savior/SOW7.htm

Brother Preston's anointed pen writes beautifully.
He answers thoughtful letters sent through traditional mail.

Yes it is indeed.  :thumbsup:

[Dallas]

Also, from your explanation of preterism it's quite obvious you don't understand it.

[Cardinal]

:cloud9: There's nothing wrong with my language (and if there is, Jab, feel free to reprimand me) and just because I'm a mod doesn't mean I'm not free to state my opinion, too.

I will not publicly discuss the reason for your being reprimanded on the board; you need to PRIVATELY take that up with Jab, as per forum rules.

As for me not understanding it, I've read enough posts around here from various ones to know what it is. Blessings....

[Dallas]

As for me not understanding it, I've read enough posts around here from various ones to know what it is. Blessings....

I'm telling you staright forward, from what you posted that doesnt not in any way represent was preterism is. Either partial or full-preterism or even pantelism for that matter.

And since there is nothing that was out of line with that language than I will use the same.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Ok Dallas, then inform me.......Blessings....

[jabcat]

And since there is nothing that was out of line with that language than I will use the same.

Please don't.  Thanks.

I think we can continue on topic.  Or if need be, we can split this off to a Preterist/Futurist (?) thread perhaps?

[micah7:9]

:cloud9: :cloud9: So we should swallow the full preterist view instead?

There were two thieves on either side of THE cross. One wanted Him to come down (it is finished BEFORE the death to self) if He be the son of God, and the other wanted Him to remember Him WHEN He came into His kingdom (He was ALREADY King).

One is too soon (preterists), the other too late (let me die to inherit), but the Truth dwells directly in the middle, the NOW is the day of your salvation.

He is in the NOW, ie. whatever revelation He brings to you to conform you into the image of the Son in the NOW, that is the twinkling of an eye (speaks of understanding by illumination of the Spirit/light) by which we are changed from glory terrestrial (natural fleshly understanding) to glory celestial (spiritual understanding from the mind of Christ).

And since the sons of God are Christ in His many-membered body, and since God's Word cannot lie, He WILL have a body He can lay His head (FULL authority) on. Blessings....

Then there will never be a manifestation of the sons of God, because it will always be NOW; unless you are saying that the Sons ARE being manifest NOW.

:cloud9: I don't think you understood what I said previously about Him appearing in the NOW. NOW is the twinking of an eye, the revelation from the Spirit that is outside the framework of time. So because it is not bound by time, it is always NOW in the Spirit. Blessings....

but the NOW as written in the first century, was with "ishmaels" still present, and "isaacs" "few" coming forth (the era of pentacost).  So tomorrow's NOW will still be the same, as so will a billion years from  "NOW".  There will never be a moving as you say, on to the tabernacles or manifestation of sons; because there will never be a fulfillment of the "whole body".  It will always be an ongoing process, a few NOW, and many not NOW, just as the NOW was then.  

yeah, maybe outside of time it IS fulfilled, but it will never happen in time.  And Paul and gang used NOW to refer to that time, not "in the spiritual realm" imo.  

probably not making any sense to anyone but me.  

 

I understood you to say, that preterist view is wrong, because NOW is still happening.  Well, whenever you say the NOW is not happening anymore (sons manifest, or tabernacles fulfilled); someone will come in and say your a preterist.  

:cloud9: [I disagree with the preterist view as I understand it]  because it encourages people to think all is done and they should just sit on their laurels and wait to die a natural death and go on to "glory", instead of, He did it for us, BUT we have to press in to appropriate all that was done, by the dying to self. It is the epitome of faith without works. Christ in us, is the glory waiting to be revealed.

It essentially, as the thief on the cross, tries to bypass the work of the cross by claiming it is all already done, so take yourself down if you be the son of God. It was done IN Him before He ever went to the natural cross, and there is an inner working that should be going on in us as well. Blessings....

Dont know much about these  "ists" and dont want to. Liked your answer :thumbsup: Okay.. were I an "ists" I would be CHRISTS!

[Dallas]

Edit

[WhiteWings]

Before you can have life you must die. The lake of fire only burns up, annialates the wood, hay and stubble, the dross, the stuff that Father does not want. It is Christ in me the hope of glory, the only way to that glory is by God fire. Matt.3:11 Lu. 3:16

^ASVMat 3:12 ASV  Matthew 3:12 whose fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly cleanse his threshing-floor; and he will gather his wheat into the garner, but the chaff he will burn up with unquenchable fire.

Note that the wheat and the chaff are from one plant.

Yes that is true but the Holy Ghost and Fire is the threshing instrument He seperates.

I agree. Let me start I still haven't fully worked it out for myself so I take the liberty of having another opinion in a hour  :winkgrin:
Possibly the second death is the permanent destuction of the chaff. The sinful part of the plant called mankind. That would mean the second death isn't death of the whole body. Or should I say mind?

[Cardinal]

[quote author=WhiteWings link=topic=8145.msg96050#msg96050 I agree. Let me start I still haven't fully worked it out for myself so I take the liberty of having another opinion in a hour  :winkgrin:
[/quote]

:cloud9:  :laughing7:

[Tony N]

O.K. some of you believe you are the lake of fire.

Some of you believe God is the lake of fire.

I believe neither we nor God is the lake of fire since it is said to be death. Jesus said He is life and the light of man.

I take it that some of you believe the lake of fire has a dual purpose.

Some of you believe that when the Scriptures state that He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire that that means the lake of fire (even though that takes place as the 1000 year kingdom on earth is beginning and the lake of fire comes 1000 years later).

So I see there is a lot of confusion as to what the lake of fire is.

First of all we need to see what the Bible says the lake of fire is, believe that, then go from there.

What does the Bible specifically say the lake of fire is? Any answers?

[micah7:9]

Rev 20:14  and the death and the hades were cast to the lake of the fire--this is the second death;

[Tony N]

Very Good Micah!

It is a Biblical fact that when the Bible says "this is that" that the "that" can't be made into another thing.

Once the figure of speech has been explained such as "the lake of fire" and the explanation of what it is is the second death, we are not supposed to make "the second death" mean something other than what the second death is. It is its own explanation.

[jabcat]

As soon as it fits with the topic - not to sidetrack the discussion, but dovetail into it - Tony, micah, anyone, how do you think scripture defines the second death?  Since the LOF is the second death, what does it look like and what exactly would you say it accomplishes?  "Just" no more death, i.e., "eternity", or something else connected to that?

(I've come to believe the process is spiritual, yet has both spiritual AND literal results - but I'd probably have a hard time explaining it in great detail.)   :thinking:

[Molly]

Revelation 2:11
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Revelation 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


"lake" [of fire]

G3041
λίμνη
limnē
lim'-nay
Probably from G3040 (through the idea of the nearness of shore); a pond (large or small): - lake.



G3040
λιμήν
limēn
lee-mane'
Apparently a primary word; a harbor: - haven. Compare G2568.

[gregoryfl]

You can also go back to the first time it is written about in Daniel 7.

Ron

[micah7:9]

The second death is judgment G2920
krisis(Subjectively or objectively, for or against); by extension a tribunal; by implication justice (specifically divine law): - accusation, condemnation, damnation, judgment.
damnation G2917
krima
From G2919; a decision (the function or the effect, for or against ["crime"]): - avenge, condemned, condemnation, damnation, + go to law, judgment.G2919 krinō
Properly to distinguish, that is, decide (mentally or judicially); by implication to try, condemn, punish: - avenge, conclude, condemn, damn, decree, determine, esteem, judge, go to (sue at the) law, ordain, call in question, sentence to, think.

Heb 9:27  and as it is laid up to men once to die, and after this--judgment,

[micah7:9]

You can also go back to the first time it is written about in Daniel 7.

Ron

Where in Daniel 7? I must have overlooked it or I am reading it wrong. Thanks