Welcome to 1984

[Molly]

An added, but not insignificant bonus, would be reduced threats of wars over resources.

That would be nice, except I don't see any indication that we are fighting over resources now.  For instance, we are sitting on some of the biggest oil and natural gas reserves in the world that we refuse to drill.  So are we fighting over oil in the middle east as many think?

Peak oil is another one of their scams, btw.

So I think you need to rework your model of why anyone is fighting at all.

[WhiteWings]

The wars started before the oil was discovered and the technology to get it out of the ground (in a cost effective way) wasn't mature yet.
Plus there is something as strategic reserves.
Imagine the USA being the only army with oil in a future war. I don't think I don't have to tell you an army without oil is lost.

But I'm also aware that the oil companies don't want to let go of their cash cow. Unless they are the ones making equal money on clean energy.
And defense contractors aren't in the market for peace either.
So yes, sadly, (the threat of) war is big business for some. That that 'some' are not willing to give up their $ empire.

[WhiteWings]

Little hope greed will stop....

Goldman Sachs - banks do "God's work"

LONDON (Reuters) - The chief executive of Goldman Sachs, which has attracted widespread media attention over the size of its staff bonuses, believes banks serve a social purpose and are doing "God's work."

In an interview with London's Sunday Times newspaper, Lloyd Blankfein also said he believed big profits and bonuses at banks were a sign that the world economy was recovering.

"We help companies to grow by helping them to raise capital. Companies that grow create wealth. This, in turn, allows people to have jobs that create more growth and more wealth. We have a social purpose," he told the paper.

The dominant Wall Street bank posted third-quarter earnings of $3 billion (1.8 billion pounds) and plans to hand out more than $20 billion in year-end bonuses.

Blankfein told the Sunday Times that the bank's compensation practices correlated with long-term performance.

"Others made no money and still paid large bonuses. Some are not around anymore. I wonder why?"

He added that he understood, however, that people were angry with bankers' actions: "I know I could slit my wrists and people would cheer."

(Reporting by Victoria Bryan; Editing by Greg Mahlich)

[Raggedy Anne]

But not before it became the centerpiece of algore's 'award winning' movie [as mentioned in the article above] which, although I never intend to be made stupider by watching, I'm sure has influenced a lot of people who would never believe in a million years that scientists would lie.

You've never watched the movie that you vehemently criticize?  Why am I not surprised?   You freely accuse Al Gore of being a liar.  Now who is it that is the "accuser of the brethren" according to the scriptures?   I'm pretty sure Al Gore believes the ideas he presents in the film which you have never bothered watching.  If a man in good faith believes what he is saying, then it is wrong to label him as a liar.    You state that you are worried about taxes being raised.  Don't the scriptures tell us not to fret over money or how we will be clothed and fed - to trust God for these things?

Anne

[WhiteWings]

I'm pretty sure Al Gore believes the ideas he presents in the film which you have never bothered watching.

I really doubt he does Anne. First of all he doesn't live like someone who really cares for the climate. I never had big trust in politician but ok I give Gore the benefit of the doubt that he believed what he said during the time he presented the GW movie. But after that a lot of debate started about the claims of that movie. Lot's of it seems/is false or exagerated. And if Gore doesn't change his story after that then he's a liar. Reading the strong words of Obama I fear he hasn't a desire to figure out the true cause of the change in climate.
I did watch the Al's movie and the Global warming swindle. I did read articles from both camps. I did read discussion were they tried to refute each others arguments. For now my conclusion is that man made GW is a hoax or unproved at best.

You state that you are worried about taxes being raised.  Don't the scriptures tell us not to fret over money or how we will be clothed and fed - to trust God for these things?

I'm concerned about taxes too. Nauthy me :winkgrin: You are not but maybe you are worried what they are going to do with those taxes. Where I live we are equally lied to. And pay taxes for all kind of lies. Well, if those taxes are used for something good like help for say old needing people then I have peace with it.
But when it's used to fund some war.... well I'm sure you understand me.
And I leave it up to you if you also are worried what your tax $ will be used for.

[Raggedy Anne]

I'm concerned about taxes too. Nauthy me winkgrin You are not but maybe you are worried what they are going to do with those taxes. Where I live we are equally lied to. And pay taxes for all kind of lies. Well, if those taxes are used for something good like help for say old needing people then I have peace with it.  But when it's used to fund some war.... well I'm sure you understand me.
And I leave it up to you if you also are worried what your tax $ will be used for.

I cannot now, nor have people ever been able to control that which their taxes are spent on.  There is both good and bad things done with taxes, which is as it has always been.  For example, I'm glad we have roads to travel on and I don't have to walk through forest and desert to get to the next state.  And I'm glad we spend taxes to pay for police, fire dept., library, water treatment, and public health - those are good uses for 'the commons', for the 'general welfare and domestic tranquility'.  However, it grieves me that our taxes are used to make weapons and kill people around the globe.  And that is by far the biggest expenditure our government now and has since WWII used our tax dollars for.  We are a global Empire - a military industrial complex - a killing machine.   And I know that this evil is beyond my control.  God is allowing it for now.   So I don't have any illusion that I can fix the world through politics - neither on the war spending front, nor the climate change, which I do believe is real and man made, not necessarily intentionally man-made, but the result of all the building and expanding we have done resulting in all the pollutants we have dumped into the atmosphere.  The world is turning into a desert.  The rain forests truly have been destroyed for profit.  The land has been over-mined.  We have polluted the earth.   Have you read Isaiah Chapter 24 lately?

Peace -
Anne

[WhiteWings]

I cannot now, nor have people ever been able to control that which their taxes are spent on.

I don't like it but have to agree.

There is both good and bad things done with taxes, which is as it has always been.  For example, I'm glad we have roads to travel on and I don't have to walk through forest and desert to get to the next state.  And I'm glad we spend taxes to pay for police, fire dept., library, water treatment, and public health - those are good uses for 'the commons', for the 'general welfare and domestic tranquility'.

All good examples I'm prepared to pay for.

However, it grieves me that our taxes are used to make weapons and kill people around the globe.  And that is by far the biggest expenditure our government now and has since WWII used our tax dollars for.

Exactly. And what do you think the eco-tax will be spend on? Personally I think manmade GW is a hoax. But ok Obama claims he has proof I'm wrong. The big question is now; what he is going to to with his eco-tax-dollars? Fund military research for a bigger gun? Or use it for finding green energy? Even if I think GW is a hoax I could agree with funding "green research".

The world is turning into a desert.

The schrinking Sahara - click link

The rain forests truly have been destroyed for profit.  The land has been over-mined.  We have polluted the earth.   Have you read Isaiah Chapter 24 lately?

I assume you are pointing at this verse?
Isaiah 24:1 Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.

The Hebrew word for earth also means land (as in country). Or perhaps only/most often it means land. You can cjeck my claim, if you wish, in YLT

[Molly]

But not before it became the centerpiece of algore's 'award winning' movie [as mentioned in the article above] which, although I never intend to be made stupider by watching, I'm sure has influenced a lot of people who would never believe in a million years that scientists would lie.

You've never watched the movie that you vehemently criticize?  Why am I not surprised?   You freely accuse Al Gore of being a liar.  Now who is it that is the "accuser of the brethren" according to the scriptures?   I'm pretty sure Al Gore believes the ideas he presents in the film which you have never bothered watching.  If a man in good faith believes what he is saying, then it is wrong to label him as a liar.    You state that you are worried about taxes being raised.  Don't the scriptures tell us not to fret over money or how we will be clothed and fed - to trust God for these things?

Anne

Hi Anne, thanks for commenting on this subject.  It is a really important subject for all of us to look into deeply.  First, algore is not my brethren in any sense of the word.  Second, the only reason that I would watch propaganda which I know already is propaganda is if I have to for some reason, otherwise, it is a waste of my time, and, quite frankly, painful, as are all lies.

Ephesians 5:11
Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.

I have seen enough of algore to discern his methods and his motives, and that is all I need to know.  I watched him try to tell the senate that the science on global warming was 'settled.'  He was practically laughed out of the place.  But, soon, we won't have the freedom to laugh at science wannabees who are trying to control policy by presenting lies as fact.

I hope you don't see this as any kind of political issue between us, since I do not have much sympathy for either the repubs or dems, a pox on both their houses.  We need people in Congress who will represent us, not parties.  We are basically a one party system now anyways.

As for taxes, with the global warming legislation, we are talking about taxes of 2 percent of our GDP being sent to other countries to pay our 'climate debt.'  That's for starters.  Since we have already pretty much destroyed our industrial base with nafta, cafta, and nationalization, there is very little left to play games with, and business is what has made this nation strong.  You may have noticed that unemployment is currently over 10 percent.  It's really much higher because they play games with those numbers, too.   Under this legislation, there will also be Czars who will regulate what windows you must have, how many lightbulbs you can use for how many hours, and how much electricity and heat you can use, how far you can drive and for what reason,  there will be energy police who will come into your house and slap you with fines, prevent you from selling your property until you have complied, on and on---this is just another piece of legislation that is a communist power grab--just like the healthcare bill.  As the article above stated, it is "the most expensive economic suicide note ever written."

I know what the agenda is for these people, and it is, as I said, to turn the western countries into gulags.  So, I have your interest at heart as much as my own with my attempts to 'expose them.'

[Raggedy Anne]

Molly,

I truly don't think God has called you or any one to take on the principalities and powers of this world with our own power. 
And I think the way you used Ephesians 5:11 out of context if you are implying that it means you should think to overthrow worldly governments by railing against them.  I could just as easily give you the scripture about submitting to those in authority and praying for those whom God has placed in power.  But many Christians generally only pay attention to that scripture if they happen to approve of who is in power.  Yet even in the Old Testament there are many examples of God's people submitting to evil rulers who were in authority and thereby bringing about a blessing to people.

Ephesians Chapter 5

1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.
18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;
21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

[Molly]

I truly don't think God has called you or any one to take on the principalities and powers of this world with our own power.

It truly doesn't matter to me what you think about me, or what any person thinks about me.

I take my marching orders from one authority only.

Therefore, I will continue to do what I do until He puts me somewhere else to do something else.

I should say that I personally would benefit economically from Obama's green policies--there are a few who will benefit economically and I am one of them.  So, I should just shut up and go along, if my desire were for myself.

I should also say that, in a political sense, in a governmental sense, my only authority is the Constitution of the United States--no man, no party, no group.  That is the way our country was set up by our Founders.  So, if you want to submit to authority, submit to that, the only legitimate authority in this country.

[SQ]

I am not sure where I read this but Global warming tactics has made Al Gore filthy Rich, from 2 million to almost 200 million.
This global warming seems to me to be a farce, God is in control of weather as always.
This is an opportune time where the rich get richer.

[Raggedy Anne]

I truly don't think God has called you or any one to take on the principalities and powers of this world with our own power.

It truly doesn't matter to me what you think about me, or what any person thinks about me.

I take my marching orders from one authority only.

Therefore, I will continue to do what I do until He puts me somewhere else to do something else.

I should say that I personally would benefit economically from Obama's green policies--there are a few who will benefit economically and I am one of them.  So, I should just shut up and go along, if my desire were for myself.

I should also say that, in a political sense, in a governmental sense, my only authority is the Constitution of the United States--no man, no party, no group.  That is the way our country was set up by our Founders.  So, if you want to submit to authority, submit to that, the only legitimate authority in this country.

Molly,
This is not an American board.  It is a global place where people come from many nations.  Now why do you think that Christians from other nations would be interested in hearing Americans rail about their leaders?   I don't think they come to Tentmaker for that purpose.  Nationalism ought not take precedence over our true allegiance which is to Jesus Christ and his Kingdom which is a spiritual kingdom, not of this world.  While in this world, we have many troubles and it has always been so.  That is why wait to inherit that far country that Abraham saw.   I think you have to keep worldly politics and religion separate in order to be obedient to both.

Anne  

[Molly]

I truly don't think God has called you or any one to take on the principalities and powers of this world with our own power.

It truly doesn't matter to me what you think about me, or what any person thinks about me.

I take my marching orders from one authority only.

Therefore, I will continue to do what I do until He puts me somewhere else to do something else.

I should say that I personally would benefit economically from Obama's green policies--there are a few who will benefit economically and I am one of them.  So, I should just shut up and go along, if my desire were for myself.

I should also say that, in a political sense, in a governmental sense, my only authority is the Constitution of the United States--no man, no party, no group.  That is the way our country was set up by our Founders.  So, if you want to submit to authority, submit to that, the only legitimate authority in this country.

Molly,
This is not an American board.  It is a global place where people come from many nations.  Now why do you think that Christians from other nations would be interested in hearing Americans rail about their leaders?   I don't think they come to Tentmaker for that purpose.  Nationalism ought not take precedence over our true allegiance which is to Jesus Christ and his Kingdom which is a spiritual kingdom, not of this world.  While in this world, we have many troubles and it has always been so.  That is why wait to inherit that far country that Abraham saw.   I think you have to keep worldly politics and religion separate in order to be obedient to both.

Anne  

So far, the only person besides yourself who has expressed a spoken interest in this subject is from another country.  That would be ww.  This is not only a national concern, although that is the place where we all would fight it, in our own countries, and the only weapon we have to fight with is the truth.  This is part of their last bid to set up a world government, as predicted in the Bible.  Have you looked at the Copenhagen treaty?  Do you even know what it is?  Do you understand how they need this phoney global warming science to push their agenda in Copenhagen?

But, our Lord is bringing his kingdom to this earth, and, as such, all his saints will take part in it-- on this earth.

44 "In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever.

--Daniel 2

[Raggedy Anne]

So far, the only person besides yourself who has expressed a spoken interest in this subject is from another country.  That would be ww.  This is not only a national concern, although that is the place where we all would fight it, in our own countries, and the only weapon we have to fight with is the truth.  This is part of their last bid to set up a world government, as predicted in the Bible.  Have you looked at the Copenhagen treaty?  Do you even know what it is?  Do you understand how they need this phoney global warming science to push their agenda in Copenhagen?

But, our Lord is bringing his kingdom to this earth, and, as such, all his saints will take part in it-- on this earth.

44 "In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever.

--Daniel 2

Molly,
Well, yes, I have noticed that there is not much interest in the discussion which is why I wondered why you kept bringing it up in various threads on other topics.   No, I've not looked at the Copenhagen Treaty.  And no, I'm not fighting a flesh and blood war against a NWO.    Destruction is coming on the kingdoms of this world - on that we agree.  But I don't think we need to fret about it and I don't think God needs me to help him destroy the kingdoms of this world, nor to try to stop it.   Anyhow, do whatever you want.  Just thought I'd get my thoughts out in the open.    I'm not a Dominion type believer who believes that we are to take over the earth.   That kind of stuff is for the Pat Robertson types of this world and I do not listen to the theology of such men.

Anne

[WhiteWings]

I don't think God needs me to help him destroy the kingdoms of this world, nor to try to stop it.

I think God is very capable of handling things. As He showed in the OT. But He also let human armies fight for Him. Do you think Father stepped to the background and isn't involved in creation anymore. Just watching how His Son handles things? Or do you think God could step the forground again and raise a OT style army?
That's not just a question to you or about fighting Al Gore. I'm just wondering about the change in involvement of God.

[noname]

there is a perceprtion amongst people that God will sort everything out, and we as believers must sit idly by and wait...

yes, God will sort everything out...but He has always done it through His people...its the law of the two witnessess...the heavenly plus the earthly

even in the OT the Israelites went to battle only after the Levites fought the spiritual warfare in the temple

the dominion God has given man (the earth) is still our dominion...we have nowhere else where we have been appointed to serve (for now)...this is the place where our kind will stand or fall...the seed which have been sown into this world (ie Jesus) has to grow into a tree and produce fruit...our weapon is the Sword of the Spirit...this sword can discern and seperate the thoughts and intentions of the heart

here's a link to an article that describes this much better than I can
Principles of Spiritual Warfare http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org/weblog/WebPosting.cfm?LogID=1773

Anne, as for obeying governments and their rules...and I think Romans 13 would come to mind...this was also Hitler's favourite passage in the Bible...do you think God expects us to submit to a government which goes against His will? which steps on everything that is decent and human? I'm not saying one should oppose them with violence, there are many other means of letting our lights shine

[Raggedy Anne]

Anne, as for obeying governments and their rules...and I think Romans 13 would come to mind...this was also Hitler's favourite passage in the Bible...do you think God expects us to submit to a government which goes against His will? which steps on everything that is decent and human? I'm not saying one should oppose them with violence, there are many other means of letting our lights shine

No, I'm not saying that.  I was saying how I have seen Christians pull out that scripture in Romans and use it to prop up corrupt people in Washington when 'their guy' is in office, and then as soon as their guy is out of office they are calling for an uprising and open rebellion against the same 'offices', i.e. those who 'hope Obama fails' are the same ones who condoned Bush torturing people and breaking all sorts of laws.   So it seems rather hypocritical to me that people cherry pick scriptures at their leisure in order to "fight".    Those who are moving America toward Civil War may be sorry if and when things get down and dirty and out of hand.   But I do sense civil war in the air in America and it does worry me, I'll admit that.   

Anne

[noname]

This is not an American board.  It is a global place where people come from many nations.  Now why do you think that Christians from other nations would be interested in hearing Americans rail about their leaders?  

I think the reality is that with globalization, what happens in America, good or bad, has a bearing on the rest of the world...

the dollar is the de facto world currency and therefore when the banks started failing in the USA, other economies around the world like Iceland's crashed...stockmarkets went belly-up and the ordinary man-on-the-street is affected...

also, America together with NATO, has the largest active army in the world and when it decides to invade a country, few can withstand it

Obama has been propped up to be "the saviour of the world" and will bring "change" and all things nice...Nobel peace laureate when he is fighting 5 (or more ?) wars in the world...what america does, is soon followed by other countries...right or wrong...so yes, I for one is interested in what he and his congress is doing

[Molly]

Obama has been propped up to be "the saviour of the world" and will bring "change" and all things nice...Nobel peace laureate when he is fighting 5 (or more ?) wars in the world...

Is it five?  I can think of three [including pakistan].  And, to think this was the peace candidate.  The other guy was worse lol.  Do the people who voted for him to end 'the war' feel betrayed?  How long will people continue to put up with being betrayed?  How are they supposed to deal with such blatant lies?  For those of us who could perceive the lies to begin with, it's just business as usual.

I am not sure where I read this but Global warming tactics has made Al Gore filthy Rich, from 2 million to almost 200 million.
This global warming seems to me to be a farce, God is in control of weather as always.
This is an opportune time where the rich get richer.

Yes well algore has to make enough money to support his own inconvenient truth, because, once again we see someone forcing something on us that he himself does not believe.  The cognitive dissonance --that same old song of those who would lead the rest of us--has reached the pitch of a screeching car trying to avoid an accident on the freeway.


Al Gore's 'Inconvenient Truth'? -- $30,000 utility bill


 
(2/27/07 - NASHVILLE, TN) --
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/national_world&id=5072659

[WhiteWings]

Scoffed a former Gore adviser in response: "I think what you're seeing here is the last gasp of the global warming skeptics. They've completely lost the debate on the issue so now they're just attacking their most effective opponent."

Luckily the Gore camp only has scientific arguments... :laughing7:

"reviles the owners of SUVs as terrorist enablers,

[noname]

Is it five?  I can think of three [including pakistan].  And, to think this was the peace candidate.  

covert wars in Africa...ie Sudan, Somalia, DRC...backed the coup in Honduras...major military base in Colombia to challenge Venezuela...need I say more? CIA raping people with broken bottles, torturing kids in front of their parents to confess to whatever they want to...check the web, these stories are starting to surface everywhere...

it makes me sick that the emperor of this empire has been put in the same category as people like Nelson Mandela, FW de Klerk and Bishop Tutu who has devoted their lives to free their people from divisionism ie apartheid and all its evils...who have despite their previous hardships and injustice done to them, chosen to walk a road of peace and reconciliation

[Raggedy Anne]

Noname,

Even I had to give up my hatred of W. in order to have peace with God even though I was disgusted with his murderous policies that brought our nation to ruin.  You cannot hate your brother and have the love of God abiding in you at the same time - it's just not possible.   It is futile to try to find one person to blame for all the misery in the world.  It's a huge waste of energy (no environmentalist pun intended there).

Anne

[noname]

Noname,

Even I had to give up my hatred of W. in order to have peace with God even though I was disgusted with his murderous policies that brought our nation to ruin.  You cannot hate your brother and have the love of God abiding in you at the same time - it's just not possible.   It is futile to try to find one person to blame for all the misery in the world.  It's a huge waste of energy (no environmentalist pun intended there).

Anne

Anne,
it is not me who hate my "brother", he hates you...and I'm trying to make you see
my "brother" is the oppressed of this world, NOT the oppressors...NOT the modern day Pharisees and Herods of this world who walks around proudly and filthy rich and heaping praises upon themselves while the poor and destitute are suffering...

[Molly]

Climate change study shows Earth is still absorbing carbon dioxide
The Earth has developed stores to absorb excessive levels of carbon dioxide, according to a study that challenges the conventional thinking on climate change.
By Louise Gray, Environment Correspondent
Published: 12:01AM GMT 11 Nov 2009

The research, by Bristol University, suggests that despite rising emissions, the world is is still able to store a significant amount of greenhouse gases in oceans and forests.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/6538300/Climate-change-study-shows-Earth-is-still-absorbing-carbon-dioxide.html



It's almost like the earth is alive in its ability to self regulate.  The earth has outsmarted algore again.  Does this mean he's dumber than dirt? :icon_jokercolor:

[Raggedy Anne]

Molly,

You didn't bother to transcribe the entire article, and one wonders whether you bothered reading the whole article...

"But Dr Wolfgang Knorr cautioned that the world should still be trying to reduce carbon dioxide emissions as part of any climate change deal decided in Copenhagen next month.

He pointed out that the amount of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere is still increasing, even though half is absorbed by the Earth. Also there are fears that the oceans and soil become saturated and are unable to absorb any more CO2 in the future.

"Like all studies of this kind, there are uncertainties in the data, so rather than relying on Nature to provide a free service, soaking up our waste carbon, we need to ascertain why the proportion being absorbed has not changed," he said. "