Welcome to 1984

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I think a lot of people either don't read the OT, or conveniently forget God's promises and covenants with the people of the Book, were FOREVER. We were grafted in to the olive tree, we did not replace it, as many would like to think. There is really only one covenant, the "second" is a spiritual fulfilling of the "first". How Christians can claim to be Abraham's seed and disallow God's plans for the Jews, astounds me. This is why we are told not to glory against the olive tree we were grafted INTO.

There is NO higher authority than God, the governments of this world are as specks of dust, and I would not want to be in any army that invades what He has given the Jews, as they are in the position now as the woman coming to OUR table who gained favor by stating the dogs (term for uncircumcised, which now that there is a spiritual circumcision in place, is what they are), eat the crumbs.

He had mercy on us when we were gentiles/uncircumcised, and to not show them the same mercy while the tables are turned, is grave error, IMO. He will still bless those who bless Israel. It's probably the only reason this country has been allowed to stand as long as it has, slaughtering a million plus innocents (babies in the womb) worse than Herod ever thought about, for DECADES.

It will surprise me if we are not turned over to a foreign national for judgment of the flesh, just as He did Israel, as He is no respecter of persons and we as a nation have lost our way just as they did. I don't expect anyone to agree with me, and that's ok, I'm not stating this for argument fodder, just stating my opinion. My  :2c: Blessings....

[fire walker]

:cloud9: I think a lot of people either don't read the OT, or conveniently forget God's promises and covenants with the people of the Book, were FOREVER. We were grafted in to the olive tree, we did not replace it, as many would like to think. There is really only one covenant, the "second" is a spiritual fulfilling of the "first". How Christians can claim to be Abraham's seed and disallow God's plans for the Jews, astounds me. This is why we are told not to glory against the olive tree we were grafted INTO.

There is NO higher authority than God, the governments of this world are as specks of dust, and I would not want to be in any army that invades what He has given the Jews, as they are in the position now as the woman coming to OUR table who gained favor by stating the dogs (term for uncircumcised, which now that there is a spiritual circumcision in place is what they are), eat the crumbs.

He had mercy on us when we were gentiles/uncircumcised, and to not show them the same mercy while the tables are turned, is grave error, IMO. He will still bless who bless Israel. It's probably the only reason this country has been allowed to stand as long as it has, slaughtering a million plus innocents (babies in the womb) worse than Herod ever thought about, for DECADES.

It will surprise me if we are not turned over to a foreign national for judgment of the flesh, just as He did Israel, as He is no respecter of persons and we as a nation have lost our way just as they did. I don't expect anyone to agree with me, and that's ok, I'm not stating this for argument fodder, just stating my opinion. My  :2c: Blessings....

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

yes and in this picture are also people like Goldstone and Mordicia Vanunu who are Jews that should NOT be silienced by Israel especialy and then followed by the rest of the world. Every time any of the Jewish people speak out against the political policies of the Israelie government
they are discounted, discredited and in some cases imprisoned like Vanunu was or killed like Jewish PM Rabin was,  it was not a muslim by the way that killed him, this deed was done by another Jew,  more than likely a political hit man though that point was never discussed at the time as the subject was silienced as soon as possible by Israel, this same flesh Israel that makes the lying claim that Jews don't kill Jews. This is like John Hagee claiming that christian churches don't pursecute other christian churhes even though it is clear that they have done it and still do, like the Catholics and Protestants did in Ireland, go to church on Sunday and then start fire bombing one another again come early Monday .

It does indeed look more and more like an Orwells 1984  self fullfilling Prophesy around the world as time moves along.

Peace,
Fire Walker

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Granted Orwell may have had an unrealized prophetic gift in him that was largely veiled by the flesh he never submitted fully to the Spirit, but he still was no prophet of God and His Word as interpreted by His Spirit, is still the only authority of what will, and will not happen in this world, so I only look to Him/It. My  :2c: Blessings....

[Molly]

:cloud9: Granted Orwell may have had an unrealized prophetic gift in him that was largely veiled by the flesh he never submitted fully to the Spirit, but he still was no prophet of God and His Word as interpreted by His Spirit, is still the only authority of what will, and will not happen in this world, so I only look to Him/It. My  :2c: Blessings....

Why do you say that about Orwell?  He was a believing Christian, and if you look at his background combined with the uncanny accuracy of his prophecies, it is a virtual certainty that he was not "prophesying," he was whistleblowing.  He was revealing plans that were already in the works, and that he himself had seen and heard people talk about.

His last book, 1984, was his final gift to the world, as he wrote it while dying of TB.

God Bless you, Eric Arthur Blair.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Molly, I think what I said is closer to what you said, than you realize.....

[Beloved Servant]

the blind are blind
the dumb are dumb
the deaf are deaf
the lame are lame
WE ARE FREE

[jfraysse]

I agree with FireWalker.  The man-made, false and corrupt Nation of Israel is still killing her own.  This is what happens when a Nation is convinced it is ordained by "god".  Sad, methinks. :sigh:

I agree with Raggedy Anne we should not despise Pres. Obama and that he and his family should be in our prayers.  (Yes, I prayed for Pres Bush and Clinton too and no, I didn't vote for Clinton, Bush nor Obama) :winkgrin:

I also agree with Molly on George Orwell – Wait, did I say I agree with Molly? (he-he) :mshock: Just messin' with ya, sis. :bigGrin:  I really do though. :thumbsup: :HeartThrob:

[Beloved Servant]

Israel needs not concern itself with Babylon and vice-versa.

[Molly]

:cloud9: Molly, I think what I said is closer to what you said, than you realize.....

well, it confused me because what you said made it sound like Orwell somehow fell short--"largely veiled by the flesh, not a prophet of God."  Whereas I see Orwell as doing exactly what he set out to do, that is, show the world what a small group had planned for them decades in advance.  Orwell is as relevant today as he was 60 years ago, maybe more so.  I see men like Orwell being raised up by God to educate, warn, and instruct.  He is showing us what the future will most certainly be--what it already is since we are now the future he described--if we do not repent.

People seem to think 'history' just happens, that we all trip and fall and stumble into wars and systems.  It doesn't just happen.  It is designed years in advance behind the scenes, which would make all of us prophets if we would just pay attention.  But, the best made plans of mice and men can falter...because the Spirit of God moving in a people who became aware and awake can change the course of history as it is intended by the small group who think they have already written the ending.

In the truest sense of the word, then, that makes Orwell a prophet of God, athough I doubt he would ever claim that title for himself.  He had the courage to show us the future and was given the grace to do it.

9Jesus answered, "Are there not twelve hours of daylight? A man who walks by day will not stumble, for he sees by this world's light. 10It is when he walks by night that he stumbles, for he has no light."

--John 11

[Beloved Servant]

the well dwelleth within
He brings with it peace

[Beloved Servant]

Please,
Don't lean on your own understanding.
Learn from the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ.

[Molly]

Please,
Don't lean on your own understanding.
Learn from the Spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Yes, I do.  And to those he sends.

34Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers.

---Mat 23

[Cardinal]

I agree with FireWalker.  The man-made, false and corrupt Nation of Israel is still killing her own.  This is what happens when a Nation is convinced it is ordained by "god".  Sad, methinks. :sigh:

:cloud9: Hi John.........good to see you back in these parts......... :thumbsup:

I don't think they're any better or any worse than any other State government run by man, but I think it's a stretch to say they are man-made (as if others could not also be under that definition). To me, God allowed it to happen in 1948 so that the nation of Israel could be included (as they should be) in the Kingdoms of this world that are to become the kingdoms of our God and His Christ, in the generation that I believe is soon to see that.

In addition to that, there are literally THOUSANDS of hidden Jews being awakened to the fact they are of Jewish descent, out of multitudes of countries you would not think of as having Jews, like Mexico, the Carribean, Puerto Rico, and many, many others, most of which had no idea they were, because it was hidden from them by well-meaning family members, passed down from generation to generation as a "secret", until one died early or forgot, ect.

There are so many in fact, there is a professor doing a research study on the possibility of "genetic memory", as a way to try to explain away a phenomenon that is clearly IMO only something the Spirit of God could do, and certainly ties in with what He said He would do, as does the RE-formation of Israel at this time in history. My  :2c: Blessings....

[jabcat]

...phenomenon that is clearly IMO only something the Spirit of God could do, and certainly ties in with what He said He would do, as does the RE-formation of Israel at this time in history. My  :2c: Blessings....

Agreed Card. 
-------
Interesting thoughts on Orwell.

[sparrow]

I agree with Raggedy Anne we should not despise Pres. Obama and that he and his family should be in our prayers.  (Yes, I prayed for Pres Bush and Clinton too and no, I didn't vote for Clinton, Bush nor Obama) :winkgrin:

ditto.

[noname]

In addition to that, there are literally THOUSANDS of hidden Jews being awakened to the fact they are of Jewish descent, out of multitudes of countries you would not think of as having Jews, like Mexico, the Carribean, Puerto Rico, and many, many others, most of which had no idea they were, because it was hidden from them by well-meaning family members, passed down from generation to generation as a "secret", until one died early or forgot, ect.

Card,
being Jerwish does NOT give you ANY special priviledge regarding salvation...if Jews do not accept their King who has already come, they are no better off than any other "gentile" or other israelite (which was "lost" into the nations)...

we should also remember Jesus' prophetic words regarding the fig tree...the fig tree have always being representative of the Jews...He compared the non-believing Jews to that of a fig tree that will bear many leaves but NEVER again any fruit...

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Hi; obviously they have to accept their King, but they are "special" in that HE has kept His part of the covenant, and HE is bringing them in, in these the last days of the last "day", just as He said He would, and they are the olive tree we were grafted into. And salvation is of the Jews, ie. it came thru them. God is not "done" with Israel nor the Jews, and never has been, IMO. If He was, THEN, He'd be a respecter of persons.

So I agree to a point. It is Rachel He loves, and not Leah, and for the last 7 years/days what He has done has been suffering thru Leah (those of dim vision that could not perceive Him), but it was done because of His love for Rachel (those who do), and those of the Jews are no different. Blessings....

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Ironically, someone sent me this in an email today. I had never considered the thought before reading this, that acceptance of Israel's right to the land, by parallel application, denotes belief and acceptance that the God of the Bible IS God and as such has the right to bless as He chooses. Apparently, at one point, the largest church in Lebanon, agreed with this as a given. Blessings....

Treaty between the Jewish Agency for Palestine and the Maronite Church

What are the implications of the creation of a minority Jewish state on identity politics in Lebanon?

May 30th 1946
"We, the undersigned:


1. His Beatitude Antoine Arida, the Maronite Patriarch of Lebanon, acting on behalf of the Church and the Maronite community, the largest community in the Lebanese Republic with citizens residing in other countries, represented by Cheikh Toufic Aoud, ex-minister by virtue of authorization addressed to the President of the Jewish Agency, Professor Weizmann on May 24th 1946,which hereinafter shall be in this treaty addressed as "first party".

2. Dr. Bernard Joseph, acting on behalf of the Jewish Agency for Palestine which is known in International Law as the representative of Jewish people around the world aimed at creating the Jewish National Home in Palestine,which hereinafter shall be in this treaty addressed as "first party".





ART.1: The first party expressly and fully recognizes the historical link uniting the Jewish people to Palestine, the Jewish people's aspirations in Palestine, and the Jewish people right to a free immigration and independence in Palestine. It also declares its approval on the Jewish agency's declared current political program including the establishment of a Jewish state.

ART.2: The second party expressly and fully recognizes the independence of Lebanon and the right of its inhabitants to choose the regime they deem as appropriate. The second party also declares that its extending and widening program does not include Lebanon. On the contrary, it respects the state of Lebanon in its current form and borders. The Jewish immigration does not include Lebanon.

ART.3: The two parties commit themselves reciprocally to abstain from undermining their respective aspirations and status; the so-called commitment has a binding obligation restraining the representatives of both parties - officials and non officials - in the country, abroad, in international conferences whether occidental or oriental, from expressing any kind of support to decisions or actions that may harm the other party. Also do their utmost to avoid taking such decisions or undertaking such actions.

ART.4: The two parties commit themselves to provide mutual help at the following levels: political, commercial, security and social in order to promote the position of the first party and realize the aspirations of the second one. This engagement includes:

a) Raise the awareness of public opinion in the Orient and the Occident on the cause of each party, according to the spirit of the treaty hereby.

b) Concert their efforts to open the doors of each country with view to deepen cultural and social rights and promote commercial trades and the exchange of liaison officers to forge good neighboring relationships between one another.

c) The first party recognizes the right of every Jewish to immigrate to Palestine commits itself to help as much as possible in the realization of this immigration in the event that it shall pass through Lebanon.

d) The second party commits itself, after the creation of the Jewish state, to respect the sacred character of the holy sites in Palestine and commits itself as well after retaining the command of power to consider the treaty hereby as an integral part of the government program.

e) The two parties commit themselves to provide help, if requested, to one another in order to maintain security in their respective countries. This engagement has the binding obligation to take all necessary measures to block the entrance or exit of hostile elements capable of sowing public disorder and the obligation to refrain from providing any kind of help for such elements.

f) The two parties commit themselves to exchange information on all issues such as the politics of their countries, their economy, security, and relations with third parties.

g)At the industry, agriculture and scientific research levels, the two parties commit themselves to exchange information and advice in order to synchronize the Lebanese and Jewish efforts with a view to ensure the best development of their respective industries (including the tourism sector), agriculture and research on the basis of mutual cooperation.

h)After creating the Jewish state, the second party commits itself to reserve a friendly treatment to the representatives of the Maronite Patriarch, to facilitate the buying of a land and the construction of a Patriarchate worthy of the Maronite community.

i)The second party commits itself to require from its offices all over the world to support the cause of the first party and back its representatives in Washington, London, and Paris and in international conferences.

ART.5: In order to achieve the afore-mentioned obligations, and additional practical means of collaboration and mutual aid, the two parties will hold direct or indirect (through representatives) talks depending on the relevant advancement and circumstances. The first party has already chosen Cheikh Toufic Aouad to be its authorized representative till further notice.

ART.6: The treaty hereby takes effect upon signature. Each party has the right to terminate it within six months notice.

In witness whereof the two parties have signed this treaty."

Double original copy, Jerusalem, May 30th 1946.       

On behalf of His Beatitude His Grace Antoine Pierre Arida, Toufic Aouad   

On behalf of the Jewish Agency for Palestine, Bernard Joseph

[jfraysse]

Dearest Cardinal:  You are, of course, entitled to you opinion and I accept it, Sis.  It is also what most Orthodox Christians believe about the Nation of Israel and I'm not certain that you (or they) are wrong. :dontknow:

However, I see the events of 1948 differently as per my recent comments.  I think it is possible that the Modern Day Nation of Israel is simply a man-made attempt to help "god" fulfill a "Prophecy". 

I have many Jewish friends here in the states.  They also agree that the Nation of Israel does not qualify as God's Gathering of the Jewish People.  When Nations, including the US, assume that they are implements of divine justice or destiny, the world seems to suffer.  We enable (unwittingly?) self-fulfilling prophecies concerning "wars and rumors of wars".  It all makes me heart-sick. :sigh:

To me, Prophecy is a distraction.  Even when Jesus spoke of "future events" he ultimately taught that no one knew for sure and that we should be "Ever Ready", that is, busy about Our Father's Business.  My plate is Full, or should be, with this endeavor yet, on occasions, I refuse to recognize it and get bogged down in discussions such as this.  Sorry! :mblush:

In His Love, John :HeartThrob:

[Molly]

If one is really serious about restoring to the 'Jews' the land granted to Abraham by God, it includes a vast area of the middle east from Egypt to Iraq, including Jordan, Syria, Palestine, and Lebanon, even part of Saudi Arabia, that land between the Nile and the Euphrates rivers.  Look at a map.

Unfortunately for the Jews, most of this area is currently occupied by Arab muslims, who also trace their lineage from Abraham. 

So we have to ask ourselves, what did God really mean when he granted this land to Abraham?  Did he mean it literally? And, who did he intend to inherit it?  If God chooses to give it to someone, should they wait for God to grant it to them or should they take it by force?

I'm not saying I know the answers to those questions.  In fact, I am certain that I am missing something important.  But, I do know that a lot of what is going on in current day history is a distraction from the real agenda of man, and the real agenda does not favor mankind.  When God says to Abram, '...go to the land I will show you,' I see this as a spiritual place.  Yet, when it is translated into the natural, the result is war, suffering,  and chaos.


18In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:'

--Gen 15

[jabcat]

As is often the case, I believe it is both literal and spiritual in nature.  However, I don't believe man in his own efforts will fix it.  I believe the King of Kings and Lord of Lords will correct it, as part of His reconciliation of everything, in, above, and below the earth.   I'm looking for a Kingdom, whose builder and Maker is God.  Again (spiritual - kingdom within) and literal (God being All in All).  My  :2c:.

[WhiteWings]

If it's (also) literal we can guestimate the 2nd coming pretty accurately.
There should be (false) peace first. When I check the Israel section in the daily news I don't think time is at hand yet....

[Molly]

As is often the case, I believe it is both literal and spiritual in nature.  However, I don't believe man in his own efforts will fix it.  I believe the King of Kings and Lord of Lords will correct it, as part of His reconciliation of everything, in, above, and below the earth.   I'm looking for a Kingdom, whose builder and Maker is God.  Again (spiritual - kingdom within) and literal (God being All in All).  My  :2c:.

7And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
8And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

--Gen 17

This is an everlasting covenant.  Everlasting is that word, Olam.  Can you tell me again how Tentmaker views this word?  Does it mean forever?



"everlasting"

H5769
עלם    עולם
‛ôlâm ‛ôlâm
o-lawm', o-lawm'
From H5956; properly concealed, that is, the vanishing point; generally time out of mind (past or future), that is, (practically) eternity; frequentative adverbially (especially with prepositional prefix) always: - always (-s), ancient (time), any more, continuance, eternal, (for, [n-]) ever (-lasting, -more, of old), lasting, long (time), (of) old (time), perpetual, at any time, (beginning of the) world (+ without end). Compare H5331, H5703.


H5956
עלם
‛âlam
aw-lam'
A primitive root; to veil from sight, that is, conceal (literally or figuratively): -  X any ways, blind, dissembler, hide (self), secret (thing).


Could you take a look at this pdf file which was dumped in my lap and let me know where or how his reasoning might be right or wrong?  Also, Cardinal, could you take a look at this for me?

It's quite possible the whole world has been blinded.  It wouldn't be the first time.


http://www.christianzionism.org/BibleSays/Sizer04.pdf

[Molly]

Obama Poised to Cede US Sovereignty,
Obama Poised to Cede US Sovereignty, Claims British Lord
Fightin' Words
October 15, 2009


The Minnesota Free Market Institute hosted an event at Bethel University in St. Paul on Wednesday evening. Keynote speaker Lord Christopher Monckton, former science adviser to British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher, gave a scathing and lengthy presentation, complete with detailed charts, graphs, facts, and figures which culminated in the utter decimation of both the pop culture concept of global warming and the credible threat of any significant anthropomorphic climate change.

A detailed summary of Monckton's presentation will be available here once compiled. However, a segment of his remarks justify immediate publication. If credible, the concern Monckton speaks to may well prove the single most important issue facing the American nation, bigger than health care, bigger than cap and trade, and worth every citizen's focused attention.

Here were Monckton's closing remarks, as dictated from my audio recording:



At [the 2009 United Nations Climate Change Conference in] Copenhagen, this December, weeks away, a treaty will be signed. Your president will sign it. Most of the third world countries will sign it, because they think they're going to get money out of it. Most of the left-wing regime from the European Union will rubber stamp it. Virtually nobody won't sign it.

I read that treaty. And what it says is this, that a world government is going to be created. The word "government" actually appears as the first of three purposes of the new entity. The second purpose is the transfer of wealth from the countries of the West to third world countries, in satisfication of what is called, coyly, "climate debt" – because we've been burning CO2 and they haven't. We've been screwing up the climate and they haven't. And the third purpose of this new entity, this government, is enforcement.

How many of you think that the word "election" or "democracy" or "vote" or "ballot" occurs anywhere in the 200 pages of that treaty? Quite right, it doesn't appear once. So, at last, the communists who piled out of the Berlin Wall and into the environmental movement, who took over Greenpeace so that my friends who funded it left within a year, because [the communists] captured it – Now the apotheosis as at hand. They are about to impose a communist world government on the world. You have a president who has very strong sympathies with that point of view. He's going to sign it. He'll sign anything. He's a Nobel Peace Prize [winner]; of course he'll sign it.

[laughter]

And the trouble is this; if that treaty is signed, if your Constitution says that it takes precedence over your Constitution (sic), and you can't resign from that treaty unless you get agreement from all the other state parties – And because you'll be the biggest paying country, they're not going to let you out of it.

So, thank you, America. You were the beacon of freedom to the world. It is a privilege merely to stand on this soil of freedom while it is still free. But, in the next few weeks, unless you stop it, your president will sign your freedom, your democracy, and your humanity away forever. And neither you nor any subsequent government you may elect will have any power whatsoever to take it back. That is how serious it is. I've read the treaty. I've seen this stuff about [world] government and climate debt and enforcement. They are going to do this to you whether you like it or not.

But I think it is here, here in your great nation, which I so love and I so admire – it is here that perhaps, at this eleventh hour, at the fifty-ninth minute and fifty-ninth second, you will rise up and you will stop your president from signing that dreadful treaty, that purposeless treaty. For there is no problem with climate and, even if there were, an economic treaty does nothing to [help] it.

So I end by saying to you the words that Winston Churchill addressed to your president in the darkest hour before the dawn of freedom in the Second World War. He quoted from your great poet Longfellow:

Sail on, O Ship of State!

Sail on, O Union, strong and great!

Humanity with all its fears,

With all the hopes of future years,

Is hanging breathless on thy fate!



http://www.intheav.com/blogs/Sovereignty%20Soldier/2009/10/16/obama-poised-to-cede-us-sovereignty

[jabcat]

Sad post Mol, I want to look at it more closely.  I will also look at your link in the prior post.  Got something going on off the boards right now.  Later, Thanks.