my conclusion about UR....

[chuckt]

greetings all and blessings.

i was talking with a friend at work, he saud we are missing something, that it was never Gods intention for us all to believe in UR and we should tread lightly when teaching it to the masses.

""God needs men to fear hell to keep them in line""

I somewhat agree with this but for me UR spurs me on to love as ive never loved before and to seek to bless others as much as possible.

now realize i am / was a real scumbag and i personally needed UR to be revealed to me.

Does God give each one of us what we need to live godly in Christ Jesus UR or not?


thoughts? has this topic been discussed before?

God bless
chuckt.

[Nathan]

Phillipians 2
12Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
14Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

It's not God telling us that we need to have the fear of hell to inspire us to love God.  That line of thinking is no longer viable.  What is happening is, believing in UR as well as other new aged thinking . . . (kingdom truths) is that it sets you free . . .it brings liberty and worst of all, it allows you to release your control over others.  My personal relationship is finally allowed to be just that . . .mine, and personal.  I no longer have a corporate relationship that is laid out according to my church, but it is honed and grafted into my personality . . .it allows me to be me, but at the same time, it transforms me into Him.

[chuckt]

Phillipians 2
12Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
14Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

It's not God telling us that we need to have the fear of hell to inspire us to love God.  That line of thinking is no longer viable.  What is happening is, believing in UR as well as other new aged thinking . . . (kingdom truths) is that it sets you free . . .it brings liberty and worst of all, it allows you to release your control over others.  My personal relationship is finally allowed to be just that . . .mine, and personal.  I no longer have a corporate relationship that is laid out according to my church, but it is honed and grafted into my personality . . .it allows me to be me, but at the same time, it transforms me into Him.

hi N.

well i agree but we are talking about others, it seems to be UR cant be forced, the soil of the heart need to be tilled and made ready.

the moment i heard about UR the light came on...WHY?

peace
chuckt

[sven]

i was talking with a friend at work, he saud we are missing something, that it was never Gods intention for us all to believe in UR and we should tread lightly when teaching it to the masses.

this is a very old opinion, Bengel hold this view, also Origen and Jerome as far is I know, maybe only those who are concerned about the fate of the unbelievers realize it

[Nathan]

Phillipians 2
12Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
14Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

It's not God telling us that we need to have the fear of hell to inspire us to love God.  That line of thinking is no longer viable.  What is happening is, believing in UR as well as other new aged thinking . . . (kingdom truths) is that it sets you free . . .it brings liberty and worst of all, it allows you to release your control over others.  My personal relationship is finally allowed to be just that . . .mine, and personal.  I no longer have a corporate relationship that is laid out according to my church, but it is honed and grafted into my personality . . .it allows me to be me, but at the same time, it transforms me into Him.

hi N.

well i agree but we are talking about others, it seems to be UR cant be forced, the soil of the heart need to be tilled and made ready.

the moment i heard about UR the light came on...WHY?

peace
chuckt

It was time.  that's a cop out answer sorta . . .backing up a step, I think it was time because you've been growing into this.  God graduated you from one level of understanding to another.  And you're exactly right . . .you can't convince everyone, only those whose soil is ready to receive this particular seed.  And there are seasons for that.  We're planters.  We're not the warriors we once were.  We can leave that up to the younger guys who still are invigorated by the sparring.  But when we allow our weapons to be transformed into plowshares, it's because we've matured into this relationship of God where he lets us out to pasture.  There are still warriors and the sparring armies out there, there always will be, but even though the army may be fighting the same battles, it's not the same individuals doing the fighting.  We're to allow time to mature us into different levels of living in Christ.

When it seems like "one day the lights just went on", what you're "really" telling me is, the day came when you retired into a whole new realm of God.  And to that I say . . .welcome home bro.

[chuckt]

that's a cop out answer sorta . .

well sorry for even posting  :mblush:







:bgdance:


dont you hate when people do that.

When it seems like "one day the lights just went on", what you're "really" telling me is, the day came when you retired into a whole new realm of God.  And to that I say . . .welcome home bro

yes it was after yrs in the wilderness as a beleiver being tormented in his presence, took a couple of months crying out to God and he showed up.

i guess one really needs to see how sick they are before going to the doctor.




thanks for the reply.

have a safe weekend.

chuckt

[Tony N]

1Ti 4:9-11  Faithful is the saying and worthy of all welcome 
(10)  (for for this are we toiling and being reproached),
that we rely on the living God, Who is the Saviour of all mankind, 
(11)  especially of believers. These things be charging and teaching.

We are to charge and teach that God is the Saviour of all mankind, especially of believers. This is faithful and worthy of all welcome. But, as verse ten also says, "for this we are toiling and being reproached.

No one likes to be reproached. But it comes with the territory if you are going to be giving out that which is faithful and worthy of all welcome that God is the Saviour of all mankind, especially of believers.

These things be charging and teaching.

It is not faithful nor is it worthy of all welcome that God will not save all mankind.

[Texas Son]

greetings all and blessings.

i was talking with a friend at work, he saud we are missing something, that it was never Gods intention for us all to believe in UR and we should tread lightly when teaching it to the masses.

""God needs men to fear hell to keep them in line""

I somewhat agree with this but for me UR spurs me on to love as ive never loved before and to seek to bless others as much as possible.

now realize i am / was a real scumbag and i personally needed UR to be revealed to me.

Does God give each one of us what we need to live godly in Christ Jesus UR or not?


thoughts? has this topic been discussed before?

God bless
chuckt.

I Corinthians 14:33
for God is not {a God} of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints."

I believe men needs the masses to believe in hell to supress and be master over them. I don't believe God needs to make people believe in a lie. Yet we do know that God made foolish the wisdom of the world.

[mrsocko]

Many people at our church beleive in UR but it is only shared with mature people. If someone immature and with the wrong heart hears the message they can cause alot of trouble.

[sparrow]

Many people at our church beleive in UR but it is only shared with mature people. If someone immature and with the wrong heart hears the message they can cause alot of trouble.

It should be shared with all people, who is anyone to say if someone is immature or mature? Who is anyone to judge?
If they hear the message of God's love for all and they "cause trouble" then... so what? How is that any different from someone hearing the false message of ET and causing trouble?

and I can't help it... but I just almost have to laugh... I mean come on... if someone with the wrong heart hears the message they can cause trouble??? come on!!  :happy3:

It DOESN'T MATTER.

A person is going to learn while on this earth, no matter what they believe or WHEN they believe it.

To say that Truth should be WITHHELD is wrong, imho.

Truth should never be withheld.

If you're thinking, oh they'll be like "Well we all are saved anyway, it doesn't matter what I do... woo hoo! I can go do whatever I like!" well, newsflash....  they're going to be brought through the refining fire just like EVERYONE ELSE.They are going to learn about love just like everyone else. The more "trouble" they cause, the more they are going to end up actually learning about love, in the long run. The Father's hand reaches as far as it needs to reach a person. There is no limit to how far He can reach. We can't do ANYTHING to get out of his reach.

peace.

[reFORMer]

Many people at our church believe in UR but it is only shared with mature people. If someone immature and with the wrong heart hears the message they can cause a lot of trouble.

I used to believe that.  After reading that advice from Origen, for a while I tended to keep UR to myself or mature believers I thought could benefit from it.  I admit I didn't pay too much attention to how much of my motive to keep it secret was I wanted human acceptance.  Of course there are many other things we might share to benefit other believers that wouldn't be possible if they get offended with the idea we're trying to excuse sin by not believing in hell, which is a misrepresentation, but that's the result of what we're saying they think, so it's only right to say it that way while they cast our name out as evil.

I've come to believe it is only a matter of getting victory over someone's being controlled by what operates in darkness.  Not as a naturally developing follower of Jesus for whom the truth does good, but for one diverted by religious tradition and deception it is good to be wise as serpents, using our tongues to get responses that indicate what state our hearers are in so as to improve our opportunity to rescue them from lies that prevent them from coming to the knowledge of God.  Otherwise, the fact that the carnal mind can take any truth and use it to our destruction should not be used to with hold the truth.  An elitist spirit is very unattractive to the guiless nature of Jesus.

UR is just another opportunity for those disobedient to the truth to justify their lawlessness.  The same objection can be made to the simple truth of the grace of God even if it's extent is unknown.  I knew a man that said as a Christian he was free to have a different woman every so often, because Christ died for our sins.  Didn't I believe in the forgiveness of sins?

[mrsocko]

It should be shared with all people, who is anyone to say if someone is immature or mature? Who is anyone to judge?

UR is a subject very close to God's heart. When my pastor first shared it with me he said God only reveals it to a person with a heart to accept it. He cautioned me to share it wisely. I have also received prophetic words about the way UR is to be shared. The Lord does not want his church destroyed was one(in regards to a local church).

But by all means take a Kamakazi approach to UR. Don't ask God for guidance. Then you will be like many on this board, a lone wolf without a church fellowship to belong to.

We have many at our church that believe UR. God's guidance serves us well

[sparrow]

It should be shared with all people, who is anyone to say if someone is immature or mature? Who is anyone to judge?

UR is a subject very close to God's heart. When my pastor first shared it with me he said God only reveals it to a person with a heart to accept it. He cautioned me to share it wisely. I have also received prophetic words about the way UR is to be shared. The Lord does not want his church destroyed was one(in regards to a local church).

But by all means take a Kamakazi approach to UR. Don't ask God for guidance. Then you will be like many on this board, a lone wolf without a church fellowship to belong to.

We have many at our church that believe UR. God's guidance serves us well

Sure, God REVEALS it.
NOT YOU.

You share TRUTH with whoever you possibly can in this world!
You don't force it, but just share.

GOD does the revealing.
Not you.

That is the difference.
When a person's heart is in the right place... then God will reveal.
Sometimes even when a person's heart ISN'T in the right place, God will reveal... and it will help get their heart in the right place so that they can learn more and trust in God's love more.

God can do anything.

You don't have to be careful with sharing truth.

Truth is truth.

"kamikaze approach"???  :laughing7:

[sparrow]

Don't ask God for guidance. Then you will be like many on this board, a lone wolf without a church fellowship to belong to.

We have many at our church that believe UR. God's guidance serves us well

Who says I don't ask God for guidance? Why do you assume that?

and I DO have a fellowship.

I fellowship with people online EVERYDAY.

Do you think that is somehow inferior??

I SURE DON'T.

I actually think it's quite wonderful. I have formed several wonderful relationships and I treasure them. I probably know more about them and them about me, being ONLINE then I would with being in person.

The internet is awesome for introverts like me. (not shy, mind you... but introverted.)

:icon_flower:

[mrsocko]

Don't blast me for taking a cautious approach to sharing UR and then expect no backlash. It doesn't sound like you ask God anything about who to share this message with. Some try to do what he asks of us on a case by case basis. Some of us ask God what we sould say before we say anything.

He will speak to you if you ask him. I'm talking prophetically not generally.

I fellowship with people online EVERYDAY.

Do you think that is somehow inferior??

Yes I do. If it keeps you from fellowship with other Christians in person I do think it is inferior.

[sparrow]

Don't blast me for taking a cautious approach to sharing UR and then expect no backlash. It doesn't sound like you ask God anything about who to share this message with. Some try to do what he asks of us on a case by case basis. Some of us ask God what we sould say before we say anything.

He will speak to you if you ask him. I'm talking prophetically not generally.

I fellowship with people online EVERYDAY.

Do you think that is somehow inferior??

Yes I do. If it keeps you from fellowship with other Christians in person I do think it is inferior.

Who's blasting..??
No-one is doing any sort of blasting at all, my friend.
I'm sorry if what I said ruffled your feathers...

??

Sorry you think it's inferior.
I don't.
at all.

I share my truth with whomever and in whatever way it happens.
I trust and have faith in God to work the details in that person.

Sorry you think I don't ask God anything... but that's just your assumption.

[sparrow]

mrsocko...

It's ok if we don't agree.
It's not that big of a deal.
and I wasn't blasting you.

sorry if my words came across that way.

peace.

[mrsocko]

We all ask God things. He answers us in prayer.

I made the assumption that you do not work in the prophetic.

Our church has been given several prophetic words that we are to be cautious with the UR message. I think I will listen to those words over yours telling me to shout it from the roof tops.

I feel a time is coming where this UR message will be preached and it will be the greatest blessing the church has received since Azuza.

I think we agree that we should listen to God.

[peacemaker]

Reconciliation of All is nothing new, nor has that every been hidden from view, but one must believe the truth in order to see it.

How can one believe, if not by hearing?   :dontknow:

peacemaker 

[chuckt]

some pretty good posts here thanks.

well i do preach it and certianly i am reproached for it, what im saying is i wont/cant beat it into anyone, i was discussing some things with another,i seemed to have made them stumble even to the questioning of their faith, with kit gloves i had to tread on soft ground, i made it known that questioning doctrine isnt questioning God  but in fact it is traditions that make the word of God of none effect.

this person stumbled to the point of asking what is he to beleive, how can he trust the word of God, its not the word of God but the traditions.

anyway i trust God and that God wont abandon those who seek but will reward.


chuckt

[reFORMer]

John 21:21-23 (CLV)...
21 Peter, then, perceiving this one, is saying to Jesus, "Lord, yet what of this man?"
22 Jesus is saying to him, "If I should be wanting him to be remaining till I am coming, what is it to you? You be following Me!"
23 This word, then, came out to the brethren, that that disciple is not dying. Now Jesus did not say to him that he is not dying, but, "If I should be wanting him to be remaining till I am coming, what is it to you?"

David wouldn't lift his hand against Saul, though Saul, with his men, sought to kill him.  David recognized Saul was the anointed of the Lord.

Philippians 1:15-18 (CLV)...
15 Some, indeed, are even heralding Christ because of envy and strife, yet some because of delight also;
16 these, indeed, of love, having perceived that I am located for the defense of the evangel,
17 yet those are announcing Christ out of faction, not purely, surmising to rouse affliction in my bonds.
18 What then? -- Morever, seeing that, by every method, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is being announced, I am rejoicing in this also, and will be rejoicing nevertheless.

You know the city foursquare which is the wife of the Lamb has twelve gates.  Those entering opposite of you are travelling in the opposite direction to come into the glory of God.  Those to one side are entering tangential to the path you trod.  There are many more entering in directions other than yours than there are those who are approaching in your way.

It is important to be able to defend the truth God has given to you, to whatever extent He has granted you entrance; but, to not judge others for not being able to accept for now what you know.  It takes time for the seed to bring forth fruit...and then, some have appointments where you cannot go.  They are meant for another place than yours.

If you knew God and His truth perfectly I would assume you could enter sinless immortality in the next few minutes.  You be sure to let me know when you do.

1 Corintians 4:3-13 (CLV)...
3 Now to me it is the least trifle that I may be being examined by you or by man's day. But neither am I examining myself.
4 For of nothing am I conscious as to myself, but not by this am I justified. Now He Who is examining me is the Lord.
5 So that, be not judging anything before the season, till the Lord should be coming, Who will also illuminate the hidden things of darkness and manifest the counsels of the hearts. And then applause will be coming to each one from God.
6 Now these things, brethren, I transfer in a figure to myself and Apollos because of you, that in us you may be learning not to be disposed above what is written, that you may not be puffed up, one over the one, against the other.
7 For who is making you to discriminate["differ" --KJV]? Now what have you which you did not obtain? Now if you obtained it also, why are you boasting as though not obtaining?
8 Already are you sated, already are you rich, apart from us you reign. And would that you surely reign, that we also should be reigning together with you!
9 For I suppose that God demonstrates with us, the last apostles, as death-doomed, for we became a theater to the world and to messengers and to men.
10 We are stupid because of Christ, yet you are prudent in Christ. We are weak, yet you are strong. You are glorious, yet we are dishonored.
11 Until the present hour we are hungering also and thirsting, and are naked and are buffeted and unsettled and toiling, working with our own hands.
12 Being reviled, we are blessing; being persecuted, we are bearing with it;
13 being calumniated, we are entreating. As the offscourings of the world we became, the scum of all things, hitherto.

Of course, those who believe in ceasless torture for ever do not believe that every human will be receiving praise from God, but that is what He said would happen on the day that He will, "...illuminate the hidden things of darkness and manifest the counsels of the hearts." (loc.cit., 1 Cor 4:5, CLV)

[chuckt]

i think the point is  being missed.

thanks any way folks and blessings to all.

chuckt

[Cardinal]

You know the city foursquare which is the wife of the Lamb has twelve gates.  Those entering opposite of you are traveling in the opposite direction to come into the glory of God. 

:cloud9: Thanks for my blessing for the day, reFORMer. I just heard this as a further proof of UR, as in, they are coming in from all sides to enter into the glory of God.

And Chuck, I think I know what you mean. Everyone has a time and a season for all things contained therein. All things in the Word are for all people, but not all people will receive all things until He has prepared their heart. He gave me peace in this by showing me that is totally up to Him as to what anyone receives, so we are not to take it personally in any way, if they don't receive, because it was never up to us to begin with. HE is the Lord of the harvest. If He chooses to leave them in that perception of ET until they have matured enough to abide with Him out of love and not out of fear, then Amen.

Paul didn't want to receive either, but when his time came, he was given no choice, the eyes of his understanding were opened till that was ALL he could see. He does the same thing with us in the Spirit; when you have a new revelation have you ever noticed that it seems like that everywhere you look in the word, there it is, you can't see anything else? When it's their turn, they won't be able to see anything else, either. We can run, but we can't hide.  :laughing7:  Blessings...

[Molly]

Jeremiah 5:24
Neither say they in their heart, Let us now fear the LORD our God, that giveth rain, both the former and the latter, in his season: he reserveth unto us the appointed weeks of the harvest.


Matthew 9:38
Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest.

[Texas Son]

It should be shared with all people, who is anyone to say if someone is immature or mature? Who is anyone to judge?

UR is a subject very close to God's heart. When my pastor first shared it with me he said God only reveals it to a person with a heart to accept it. He cautioned me to share it wisely. I have also received prophetic words about the way UR is to be shared. The Lord does not want his church destroyed was one(in regards to a local church).

But by all means take a Kamakazi approach to UR. Don't ask God for guidance. Then you will be like many on this board, a lone wolf without a church fellowship to belong to.

We have many at our church that believe UR. God's guidance serves us well

From one going through the fires of sharing my belief in UR I'd have to agree with you. I am being trotted out in front of all the leadership groups in our church to attack (or try to correct) my views.

I am regretting even coming forward. I do believe that God has to prepare the soil with UR. With all the overwhelming evidence those around me have neither the eyes to see nor the ears to hear.