Introducing Myself

[reFORMer]

Isaiah 29:10-21, (YLT)...
19 And the humble have added joy in Jehovah, And the poor among men In the Holy One of Israel rejoice.
20 For ceased hath the terrible one, And consumed hath been the scorner, And cut off have been all watching for iniquity,
21 Causing men to sin in word, And for a reprover in the gate lay a snare, And turn aside into emptiness the righteous.

[firstborn888]

Paul c. has now posted a response to many of you on his website.  he was barred from answering you here, so you can see his answers to you there.

     Witness - sorry, those guys are a bit nuts. God sovereignly met me and 'saved' me over 30 years ago. What these gentlemen have to say to any us is of no consequence whatsoever. The works of Jesus are to uphold the widows and the orphans and to break oppression (in REAL LIFE) not this online judging B.S.

   I feel sorry for the whole group but I'm curious - how did you get mixed up in all this?

   Blessings and peace upon all humanity.  :happygrin:

   

[jabcat]

I am absolutely not saying that Witness, and I'm not sure how you could get that out of my post(s).  I do thank you though for asking in the kind manner in which you did.  My last post is talking about deceit and deceivers, without naming any specific names.  I personally don't judge Paul or Victor, or anyone's salvation.  If God has chosen them in this Age, and they've believed upon Him as their Savior, then as far as I'm concerned they're my brothers in the Lord.  However, in a family, some family members are just too hard to get along with to make you want, or be able to, spend much time with them.  Some folks in a family just aren't very good dinner companions. 

I think what I wrote is scriptural, and can be used by any of us in our daily walk.  Speaking of which, if a teacher says they are sent from God, but then has experiences and behaviors that are clearly against scripture, then IMO, (not the person, the soul, their spirit) but their teachings, are to be examined and rejected.  We are admonished in scripture to be on guard, be aware, measure what people say against scripture.  So that's what I'm talking about.  Examine the message...search the scriptures "to see if these things are so".  A few pertinent scriptures that come to mind are "live peaceably with all men as much as is possible"..."judge not that you be not judged".."with whatever measure [of judgment] you mete, it shall be meted to you"...

Also then, these scriptures..."call on the name of the Lord and you will be saved"..."believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved"...if folks have done that, what right do I or anyone else have to go against clear scripture and condemn those folks?  (Another scripture here..."let the wheat and tares grow together"...God will sort it out on the threshing floor...judgment, vengence, and redemption are the Lord's.)

Bottom line...if anyone says they're a teacher sent from God, but display an unGodly attitude and directly behave against scripture, God will be their final judge and deal with them (and all of us) accordingly.  In the meantime, I'm told to be aware, to be careful, to not be carried away by every wind of doctrine.

Take care, James.

[peacemaker]

"Man cannot comprehend the existence of error, when to deeply immersed in it."

[reFORMer]

The change wrought in me by the Holy Spirit was when I had many things in my mind I thought were the truth.  I had been raised in such teachings.  I progressively found over the next 40 years how so much of it was wrong and in many ways.  I've also failed many times.  But, I'd have to say I now relate to the presence of God in an intimacy I didn't know in the beginning.  Though God worked in astounding ways, numerous miracles--and I did know Him then--it's so very much better now.  He starts with us where we are to bring us with Him to where He is.

It seems these don't recognize this development of our relationship, our growth in grace and knowledge of the Lord which was true even of Jesus, our ever more accurate adjustment to the truth and our advancing in the image and likeness of God.

[firstborn888]

The works of Jesus are to uphold the widows and the orphans and to break oppression (in REAL LIFE) not this online judging B.S.

   I feel sorry for the whole group

To temper my rather harsh statements let me add that 'they' may very well be doing what they believe is the Lord's work and are truly trying to help folks.  :sigh:

So be it....  :Sparkletooth:

[jabcat]

You also said you feel sorry for the whole group, which is a caring thing, right?  I too feel concern for Witness...

[Sarah]

After reading Paul's reply to many, the spirit is familiar. I have seen those who hound the 'Jezebel spirit' and attack with scripture as a weapon. It is evil. These are wolves bloodied from devouring the sheep. I saw a vision of this once, wolves snarling, bloodied, and waiting for the sheep. These are the ones Jesus said to beware of because they have power to throw your soul into Gehenna.

[Nathan]

I also found it a bit problematic in that he's posted things on his site with my name attached that I never said . . .something about me telling him he needs to repent . . .good grief . . . with remarks like that being either made up or misdirected, it's no wonder there's a chasm there.  I sent him an email on the issue . . .see where it goes from there.

[WhiteWings]

Judging his anger he's just a undercover ET.
Just ignore him. His only pleasure is fighting. The teaching part is just front...

[Paul Hazelwood]

But others were threatened by what the apostles preached and didn't want to hear them. i suppose that's why they killed them.

Hi witness,

In Pauls reply on his site he wrote this.

Paul Hazelwood, you say that Jesus Christ being Savior of all mankind is good enough for everyone, no need to contend for the faith.

The problem I have is that I never said   "no need to contend for the faith" 

The very fact that I continually state Gods love is sufficient for all in the face of objections is contending for the faith.


I will look forward to this being added to his site in the light of his preaching of the truth..............

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Dear Paul; After reading your comments to me, I have decided to take one part seriously. I have never in 23 years of walking with the Lord been accused of spouting out RELIGIOUS garbage, therefore I have concluded I must be backslidden and will work on that immediately (tongue planted firmly in cheek).  :mshock: :winkgrin:

Seriously though, I have just added you and your members to my prayer list. God bless, no hard feelings. Cardinal

[Witness]

nathan, the part you think is a second comment from you is actually paul's answer to you.

[CHB]

Hi All,

I went to Paul's website and read a little but never could figure out exactly what they believe. Are they ET'rs or Universalist, or something else? From what I read it didn't sound as if they were Universalists.

CHB

[onlytruth]

hi witness;below are some excerpts i found(the dream comment came from here)
i personally emailed paul,and he has responded .I won't converse with him anymore due to the fact he has a mean side that i don't want poured out on me.blessings fred :icon_king:


Copied from http://ironwolf.dangerousgames.com

"Robert, Paul Cohen here.

We have dealt with many religious vipers. You have proven yourself to be just another of the brood by your reactions here, no different than those you thought to leave behind, except you are less restrained in expression because not bound by a false "Christian" front. You no longer have the need to justify yourself as righteous, so you don't give a damn what you say to whom.

There is nothing, however, in what we have said or done towards you that is worthy of your derisive responses. On the contrary, we have been straightforward with you, something you prize in yourself, but for which you hypocritically despise us. We are not railing on you or condemning you, and have not said anything to you except what is pertinent and true.

Since you have despised all decent, wholesome conversation, and have thrown caution to the wind regarding the wisdom of a responsible, respectful tongue, your Maker will therefore require it of you.

You are not dealing with more religious phonies here. We know what we are talking about. What you have replied to Victor, you have said to God. In other words, you have spit in His face. Saying it will not go well for you is putting it mildly. Mark your calendar, and these words. It will not take long before you know the truth of them."

"Paul,

Thank you for the entertaining response. My blog readers are already enjoying our adventures together, and I'm sure they'll get a kick out of this turn of events.

Now, since you've started pronouncing voodoo curses upon those you despise, let's get down to specifics: exactly when shall my maker "require my tongue?" You've said I should mark my calendar, but how convenient for you that you don't provide a date. Shall I mark every single day from now to eternity as "Could die today?" Seems a little tautological. So, in order for your curse to have any remote amount of credibility, you really should put a time frame on it. If I die of mouth cancer 30 years from now would that count? And if pronouncing such a curse on me isn't prophecy, then what is?

Or perhaps you mean for me to set my own deadline, since your God's obviously shy about setting dates himself? How about this: if a week goes by and it "goes well for me," and I don't "lose my tongue" in some ghoulishly ironic way, let's say I've beaten your little curse, shall we? After that, the board is again open for the many other curses placed upon me by God's numerous other witch doctors who have prior claims.

I laugh. You are worse than false prophets. You are pious frauds who prey on others' fears. Unfortunately for you, I not only don't believe in your imaginary friend, I don't believe in magic spells either. But I do have something you don't that is far more powerful: public ridicule. The whole world is now watching: everyone who searches for your names will see our exchanges and deride you and Victor for the pitiful charlatans you are. Many who read your Path Of Truth web site will search for more information, find these pages, and turn away— relieved that they didn't go anywhere near you. Even your own followers will find these pages and wonder where your power is. Some of them may even (horrors) learn to think for themselves.

Welcome to the 21st century, and try not to bang your head on it any harder than you already have, OK?

Robert "

"shameonyou Says:

July 28th, 2008 at 8:59 am
These guys are just a typical cult - according to their delusional story, God appeared in Victor's dream one day and told him to go out and get poeple converted. Victor is the only man who knows the will of God in this world and all sorts of terrible things will happen to whoever doesn't follow him. WATCH OUT, PEOPLE!!! They appear to be harmless outside and sell organic food at Harvest Haven in Alberta, Canada but what they are actually doing behind the friendly faces is so appalling - causing family destructions by depriving innocent children of their mothers and setting concerned parents against their children. If there really is God, they are the ones who should be marking their calendar for their own miserable fate.
"

[CHB]

I went and read some of the responses of Paul Cohen.
It appears that Paul Cohen has nothing good to say about any of us. Is this the attitude us Christians should have?  There is not one bit of love in any of his responses to any of us. I did not say any thing that I thought was against him. I only said no one has all of the truth but Paul seems to think he does, even though the apostle  Paul said "we know in part" and "we see through a glass darkly".

I, like Cardinal will put Paul Cohen on my prayer list. 

I have one last thing to say to Paul. Jesus said "by this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, that you have love one for another".

(Rom. 11: 10) Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love.

(1Cor. 13:4-5) Charity suffereth long, and is kind, charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up. Doeth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil

I think we all should show more charity.

CHB

[Nathan]

nathan, the part you think is a second comment from you is actually paul's answer to you.

Ah ha . . . I do believe you're right . . .
Nathan, you ought to seek to please God, not men. Entertaining men in the Name of Christ is treachery against God. You need to repent.

So my comment on him being silenced would then be percieved by him more a feather in his cap . . .that comment provoked this response?  That I seek to please men?  Is he kidding me??? 

Dude, I understand that we're to give each other the benefit of the doubt and I for one try not to be quick to shoot off a quick, knee-jerk response.  But basically what he's doing with his website now is armchair quarterbacking.  He knows nothing of who I am . .if he did, the cheap shot of accusing me of trying to please men would never have been considered, let alone uttered . ..so do this . . .

Tell your friend that I am a pastor of a denominational church that is a self-proclaimed heretic.  I make no bones about it.  I know where I stand and I don't disagree with all of their decrees, but I do know that they disagree with most of mine.  And I'm sure the time will come when I will be a pastor of the same flock, just in a different building with a different label.  But for now . . .if I were out to please men . . .I would definitely not be the heretic I just confessed that I am.  I would not have been open to consider that the traditional church just may be the percentage that has allowed another gospel to infiltrait in it's sanctuaries.

I do not condemn the church or anyone.  I don't believe that is my position or responsibility.  Nor do I order others their need to repent . . .as your friend has again done with me.  The Holy Ghost that he assumes is in him, I believe is in me . .and I don't think the role of conviction should come from any man to any other man . .only through the spirit. . .he's much more capable of bringing me into a place of repentance than any man.

Sometimes I wonder just how mature we really are.  I'm pretty sure, we're no where near as mature as we "think" we are.  I'm sure God is not at all pleased with the attitudes from either side of this issue when we begin the mudslinging.  For me, putting the other first, would be to see the reasoning as to why a person chose to act a certain way . . .give them some grace on the matter . . .but the quick-draw judgments just are not to be found in Scripture that so many use as their ammunition.

At what point in our lives do we allow our weapons to be turned into plowshares?

[Molly]

At what point in our lives do we allow our weapons to be turned into plowshares?

When we are overwhelmed, crushed even, at the beauty and majesty of our God?

[Nathan]

Oooooh . . ..goood answer!!!  By way of revelation from the Father!! :bgdance:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen.... :thumbsup:

[Nathan]

Just scanning over that site that witness offered to us of Paul's . . .this guy has issues with pretty much everybody . ..UR is just a tip of his iceburg.  He's got a list of over 70 prominant people that he deems as false teachers . . .I find it amusing that Aimee Semple McPherson is one of them . . .she happens to be the founder of the denomination I am a part of . . .his beef with her is that she is a woman in an authoritive position . . .he has Joyce Meyer on his list as well .  .Billy Grahm . .Benny Hinn .  . a bunch of them on there that apparently are going to hell?

So I guess it's not just us . . .

[Taffy]

Hi Paul

After reading a little on ya web site and ANSWERS

Im tickled, :icon_flower:
Ya Know this is a Forum, sorta Has guidelines for those who post ...they apply to all ,..EVEN YOU....


JUST Maybe, if ya came in discussed in a civil manner , ya still be here....as Martin says..MAYBE that time will come..and many here will welcome you, along with sharing thier Understanding..Ya think ya can do that?


and dont go all MATH 23 on us PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE....COME let us DISCUSS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^TOGETHER  ++++++++++,...cant be hard can it bro.


you have good day now  :icon_flower:

:icon_flower:

[Witness]

to Martin, in response to the post in the other thread (Re: "deadly error")-

Martin, how can you assume someone's ministry is rooted in Christ just because they hold certain doctrines?  doesn't the Lord judge the hearts and not only what the lips say?

Matthew 15:8-9  This people draws nigh unto me with their mouth, and honors me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.  (9)  But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

and doesn't He send His people to do that work?

John 13:20 HNV  Most certainly I tell you, he who receives whomever I send, receives me; and he who receives me, receives him who sent me.

I don't understand how you can say you haven't forbidden anyone from preaching christ and him crucified. what Paul described in those verses is how paul C. came to you - "in demonstration of the Spirit and of power".

you say no tit-for-tat silliness is allowed on your forum.  why then are there all the smiley faces and mockery about the serious things that Paul was telling you? do you think he was joking?

how do you know paul came on for the purpose to divide? what if his purpose was instead to give you the light he saw you were so lacking? most (if not all) of the people here HAVE opened their mouths against a brother of Christ.  and i have to tell you, Martin, that you HAVE already trod under foot the blood of the covenant.

Here is the verse about Diotrephes:

3 John 1:9 MKJV  I wrote to the church, but Diotrephes, who loves to have the preeminence among them, did not receive us.

can you not see that this is the very thing you have done against Paul? he came speaking to you by God, and you would not receive him.

after reading the post that started all of this ("deadly error..."), I have to say it wasn't a matter of doctrine to Paul, it was a matter of - what are you teaching people? if believers are told they need to endure to the end to be saved, how can we just say "everyone's OK, because he's saving everyone."?  what about the process of salvation?  what about the scriptures Paul brought up in his replies to you?  you can't convince me that they were only written for the Jewish people, because the Bible was given for all believers! 

Isaiah 58-
       2) For day after day they seek me out;
       they seem eager to know my ways,
       as if they were a nation that does what is right
       and has not forsaken the commands of its God.
       They ask me for just decisions
       and seem eager for God to come near them.

isn't that exactly what happened here, on this forum?  these people claim to know God and to want to know god, but when a man from God answered them, they shut him down.

And Paul was obeying verse 1-

Shout it aloud, do not hold back.
       Raise your voice like a trumpet.
       Declare to my people their rebellion
       and to the house of Jacob their sins.

and Jude-

Jude 1:3 KJV  Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

[Paul Hazelwood]

doesn't the Lord judge the hearts

There is not one human being that lives up to this belief perfectly and that includes me, you and the person you defend.


The problem here is,  again, a constant division whether it be from members here or you, or Paul C.   But who rightly tries to admit that and seek unity?


Why did Paul C. need to assume what my forum post conveys by adding "his" words to what "I" posted.

How is that living up to the very words you are coming here and saying?   For Paul to "Decide" who are "men of God" by self proclaiming he is sent from God is arrogant and a perversion of the very statement I quoted above.

 

[Cardinal]

  paul C. came to you - "in demonstration of the Spirit and of power".

:cloud9: I know you directed your post at Martin, but I don't think he will mind if I comment on this part of this sentence quoted above, as he has so many other things to reply to. This statement, more than any other, just bowled me over. I'm not saying this to be mean spirited, but you obviously have no idea what it means to come in the demonstration of the Spirit and of power, if that is what you think Paul C. did in coming here, and that is alarming, and only confirms that all of you need prayer badly, and I ask you to forgive me for my joking earlier as clearly this is no joking matter. Blessings.....