Natural and Spiritual

[Tony N]

2Ti 2:15  Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Nathan replies:
For me, this is not saying revelation comes through studying.  It's saying to me, "when" you read Scripture, you will find it says you are approved unto God.  Not by revelation, but because it says so in print.   There is no purpose for me to study to prove to God how much I know.

Tony's reply:
Do you really think that one who studies the Scriptures and teaches eternal torture for the mass of humanity is approved unto God? That is just one issue, Nathan. There are many other incorrect beliefs which are not approved unto God.

Nathan wrote: I believe if one depends on one's own logic, two things happen. . .#1, you end up in the ditch . . .and #2, you disobey the very word you're trying to adhere to . . .does it not say "lean NOT on YOUR OWN understanding."?

Tony's reply:
If we are to renew the mind and be rejuvinated in the spirit of the mind then should we not use logic as well as pray for enlightenment?

We are not to throw away the mind God gave us but to renew the mind (Rom.12:2).
"yet to be rejuvenated in the spirit of your mind (Eph.4:23).

If those who read Revelation are supposed to calculate the number of the wild beast:

Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has a mind calculate the number of the wild beast, for it is the number of mankind, and its number is six hundred sixty-six."

Do you think that takes logic?

Nathan wrote:
And this reason you use that Jesus himself said he was not a spirit . . .you do realize that, there "was" an ascension  . .yes?  And that it was 2000 years ago when he said that . . .to a group of men who were freaking out thinking he was a GHOST!  He wasn't trying to give them a spiritual revelation, he was trying to calm them down . .they saw him beaten and buried.  His response was to let them know he was for real . .he was not a vision.  But just because he was for real in the flesh then . . .does not mean that he is still in the flesh now. 

Tony's reply:
Nathan, they supposed they saw a spirit. They didn't see a spirit but a flesh and bones Jesus. Can spirits eat broiled fish and honeycomb? . . .

Luk 24:36-43  And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.  (37)  But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.  (38)  And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?  (39)  Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.  (40)  And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.  (41)  And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?  (42)  And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.  (43)  And he took it, and did eat before them.

They will see Him come back as flesh and bones.

It was also thousands of years after God told Adam and Eve that their seed would hurt the head of the serpent. Just because it happens thousands of years after it was said does not mean God didn't mean it when He told A & E. And neither should we doubt the angels who told the disciples He would come back as He left.


You say God is going to get rid of our flesh and bones? (not exactly those words but that is sort of what you are saying). If that is the case why is God going to all that trouble and august power of opening up all those millions of graves around the world and resurrecting the dead bodies of the saints and have those saints coming out of those graves to meet us who are alive in the air to meet the Lord?

Walking in the spirit is done while we are in the flesh. Paul told the Galatians in 5:16 to walk in the spirit. Did he expect them to hang up their earth suits for a while, walk as spirit beings, then put their earth suits back on?

As far as mustard trees go, neither Jesus nor I intimated it was to be in heaven.
Their faith was to be LIKE a mustard SEED.

Nathan wrote:
Christ is not sitting in a natural body of flesh . . .everything is spiritual.

Tony's reply:
Spiritual does not mean getting rid of one's body.
Paul told us: 1Co 2:15 Now he who is spiritual is, indeed, examining all . . . ."
1Co 14:37 If anyone is presuming to be a prophet or spiritual, let him be recognizing that what I am writing to you is a precept of the Lord."

I recognize that what Paul wrote is a precept of the Lord. Therefore I am spiritual yet I am still in a body of flesh and bones.

Christ most definately is sitting in a body of flesh and bones and will come back in like manner. This does not mean He is not spiritual.

Act 1:9-11  And saying these things, while they are looking, He was lifted up, and a cloud took Him up from their eyes."  (10)  And as they were looking intently into heaven at His going, lo ! two men stand beside them in white attire,  (11)  who say also, "Men! Galileans! Why do you stand, looking into heaven? This Jesus Who is being taken up from you into heaven shall come thus, in the manner in which you gaze at Him going into heaven."

We will be spiritual, not spirits in that day we are resurrected to glory.

[Nathan]

   Luke 22;15  and he said to them, I have eagerly desired
to eat this  Passover with you before I suffer.

   FOR I TELL YOU I WILL NOT EAT IT AGAIN UNTIL

   IT FINDS FULFILLMENT IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD

  Luke 22;15

   take this and divide among you, For I tell you I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes

...and He broke bread and gave it to them saying, this is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me


   Luke 24;30  when He was at the table with them,he took bread,gave thanks,broke it,and began to give it to them

   THEN THEIR EYES WERE OPENED AND THEY RECOGNIZED HIM

      AND HE DISAPPEARED FROM THEIR SIGHT

       

Now "there's" a pattern for ya!  He did the same thing with the two disciples on the road to Emmaus, they walked and talked with him . .didn't realize who he was because they themsleves had not yet identified with the resurrected Lord, only the crucified one . . .and the moment their hearts became aware, their physical eyes could see him no more.  Once you cross over to the spiritual, the natural no longer has the impact . . .the purpose of the natural is to lead you into the spiritual.  Once you enter into the spiritual, there is no longer the need to embrace the natural.

The purpose of Jesus in both cases was to reveal to natural men who he was . . .so in the flesh, he revealed, when it was fulfilled, he went back into the spirit again . . .the pattern never changes . . .the natural is the temporary arena where spiritual dominion physically "can" manifest . . .but the physical realm was never the dominant realm . .this world is "not" my home . .why?  Because I am a spirit that is living in a temporary body of flesh . .my spirit is redeemed, my soul is being redeemed . .and the body is yet to be redeemed . . .yesterday, today, forever  . . .everything spiritual is also everything in patterns.

[Tony N]

Just because He disappeared from their sight does not mean He was a spirit.

He did the same in Luke 4:30 and John 8:59 while in the flesh just as He was in the flesh after His resurrection and as He ascended into heaven.

[Tony N]

Nathan, when Paul was about to get shipwrecked it was said:   "And we were in all in the ship two hundred threescore and sixteen souls" (Act 27:37).

Do you think those souls had a body and a spirit and a soul comprising a whole human being?

[Nathan]

This is my last post on this to you Tony . . .it's getting us no where and I don't like the arguing.

You said . . .
Do you really think that one who studies the Scriptures and teaches eternal torture for the mass of humanity is approved unto God? That is just one issue, Nathan. There are many other incorrect beliefs which are not approved unto God.

Yes . . yes I do . . . because I don't believe my approval has anything to do with what I believe . .that's what UR is all about bro . . .the whole world is approved unto God whether they accept the cross now or later . . .if they weren't already approved, then anhiliation would be the next step . .and it would be everyone that would be destroyed, for "all have sinned and fallen short".  Whether I study the Bible or not . . .makes no difference because it states I am approved . . .my reading that doesn't bring the approval . .it just makes me aware of it.


If we are to renew the mind and be rejuvinated in the spirit of the mind then should we not use logic as well as pray for enlightenment?

We are not to throw away the mind God gave us but to renew the mind (Rom.12:2).
"yet to be rejuvenated in the spirit of your mind (Eph.4:23).

If those who read Revelation are supposed to calculate the number of the wild beast:

Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has a mind calculate the number of the wild beast, for it is the number of mankind, and its number is six hundred sixty-six."

Do you think that takes logic?

When I talk about removing the mind, laying down natural reasoning . . .it's all referring to the spiritual conception of a new seed.  Your Eve really must submit to your Adam which is saying your soul . .your mind, must submit to your spirit so that the seed of life can be planted in your mind.  The logic of things comes with the order of the birthing of truth.  "When" it is revealed to me by way of the Father . . .it then makes perfect sense.  But the revelation does not come "after" applying the logic . . .the order is all wrong.

My mind can not reveal the nature of God . .it simply observes that which is unveiled through the grace of the Father when pertaining to the Son.  The renewing of the mind does not mean everything I think is right and godly . .it's a process of spiritual circumcision within the framework of what causes me to "beleive" what I reason.  The Truth remains the same whether my mind acknowledges it or not.  And it remains hidden so long as I allow my mind to be my identity and not my spirit.

I believe Adam had a body before the fall . . .I believe that spirit was dominant in the garden and natural existed, but it was invisible . .yes, I said it.  I believe that when Adam ate of the tree of knowledge, he brought disorder to the dominion.  It "was" predominantly spirit, it "became" predominantly natural.  But when all things are complete, the spiritual will return to it's original place of dominance and the natural will return to it's original place of submission . . .just as the spirit realm is visible now and the natural realm is all we see . . .when all things are fully restored, I see the spiritual being visible and the natural still existing . . .just not being seen or being dominant.

I'm sure you disagree with this Tony, and that's just fine.  We can't even agree with what I see as the elementary aspects of Christ dispositon . . .either way, I'm finished with this argument.  I've shared my case, I've put the seed out for others . . .if I keep tilling the same ground where I already dropped the seed . . .it'll never grow.  

Blessings

[Molly]

They will see Him come back as flesh and bones.

Nice.  :thumbsup:


Yet, in my flesh shall I see God.

[Taffy]

They will see Him come back as flesh and bones.

Nice.  :thumbsup:


Yet, in my flesh shall I see God.

or inwardly  :icon_flower:  to ""see" means Understand" :icon_flower:

[Molly]

They will see Him come back as flesh and bones.

Nice.  :thumbsup:


Yet, in my flesh shall I see God.

or inwardly  :icon_flower:  to ""see" means Understand" :icon_flower:

[shall I] "see" [God]

H2372
חזה
châzâh
khaw-zaw
A primitive root; to gaze at; mentally to perceive, contemplate (with pleasure); specifically to have a vision of: - behold, look, prophesy, provide, see.



Hebrews 9:28
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

[Taffy]

They will see Him come back as flesh and bones.

Nice.  :thumbsup:


Yet, in my flesh shall I see God.

or inwardly  :icon_flower:  to ""see" means Understand" :icon_flower:

[shall I] "see" [God]

H2372
חזה
châzâh
khaw-zaw
A primitive root; to gaze at; mentally to perceive, contemplate (with pleasure); specifically to have a vision of: - behold, look, prophesy, provide, see.



Hebrews 9:28
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

:icon_flower:

****mentally to perceive,****** :icon_flower:

[Tony N]

Job 19:26-27  And behind my skin I will stand erect, And from my flesh I shall perceive Eloah,  (27)  Whom I shall perceive for myself, And my own eyes will see Him and not an alien. My innermost being is exhausted in my bosom,

I think Job was talking about the resurrection.

Also to Nathan, that's O.K. even though we don't see eye to eye on many things.
In the future we both will arrive at a complete understanding. You just beat me to it, that's all.

[sheila]

   Job 38;3  Gird up your loins,now,like a man; for I will demand of thee,and answer thou of me

   Job 42;4  You said 'Listen now and I will speak; I will question you,and you shall answer me

   My ears Had heard of you,
    but NOW my eyes have seen you

    first the natural..then the spiritual

[Pierac]

1John 4:2  By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;

And now John teaches a different version here...

2Jn 1:7  For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.

This is the same confession as in 1John 4:2 except the perfect participle used there is replaced by a present participle (ἐρχόμενον, erchomenon) here. It is not clear why John changed from a perfect participle in 1John 4:2 to a present participle here. The perfect participle suggests a reference to the (past). The present participle could suggest a reference to the (future).   :2c:

Paul

[Molly]

1John 4:2  By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;

And now John teaches a different version here...

2Jn 1:7  For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.

This is the same confession as in 1John 4:2 except the perfect participle used there is replaced by a present participle (ἐρχόμενον, erchomenon) here. It is not clear why John changed from a perfect participle in 1John 4:2 to a present participle here. The perfect participle suggests a reference to the (past). The present participle could suggest a reference to the (future).   :2c:

Paul

What about the present?


2 This is how you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit who confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh (A) is from God. 

Footnotes:

A 1 John 4:2 Or confesses Jesus to be the Christ come in the flesh


7 Many deceivers have gone out into the world; they do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. (A)  This is the deceiver and the antichrist.

Footnotes:

A 2 John 1:7 Or confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh




"come", "coming" [in the flesh]

G2064
ἔρχομαι
erchomai
er'-khom-ahee
Middle voice of a primary verb (used only in the present and imperfect tenses, the others being supplied by a kindred [middle voice] word, ἐλεύθομαι eleuthomai or ἔλθω elthō; which do not otherwise occur); to come or go (in a great variety of applications, literally and figuratively): - accompany, appear, bring, come enter, fall out, go, grow, X light, X next, pass, resort, be set.



20He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

--Rev 22

[Tony N]

   Job 38;3  Gird up your loins,now,like a man; for I will demand of thee,and answer thou of me

   Job 42;4  You said 'Listen now and I will speak; I will question you,and you shall answer me

   My ears Had heard of you,
    but NOW my eyes have seen you

    first the natural..then the spiritual

Sheila, it is "First the soulish then the spiritual"

1Co 15:46 But not first the spiritual, but the soulish, thereupon the spiritual."
soul is psuche
soulish is psuchikon

First Adam then the Christ.

[sheila]

   

      Natural= by nature

     soulical= of or pertaining to the soul,esp considered as

     the seat of man's moral and emotional NATURE

      Nature Nature Nature..natural

    auth KJV natural  NIV natural

   definitions   Websters new international dictionary of the

   ENGLISH LANGUAGE  Second edition, Unabridged

      I don't like the word soulish I prefer the expression

    Natural....and that is what I will use

   If anyone has trouble with understanding what I mean

   they can refer to the  terminology above

    The title of this topic is  Natural and Spiritual I don't see
  how my using that 'term' would need to be explained,Tony

                                        Thank you

[peacemaker]

   

      Natural= by nature

     soulical= of or pertaining to the soul,esp considered as

     the seat of man's moral and emotional NATURE

      Nature Nature Nature..natural

    auth KJV natural  NIV natural

   definitions   Websters new international dictionary of the

   ENGLISH LANGUAGE  Second edition, Unabridged

      I don't like the word soulish I prefer the expression

    Natural....and that is what I will use

   If anyone has trouble with understanding what I mean

   they can refer to the  terminology above

    The title of this topic is  Natural and Spiritual I don't see
  how my using that 'term' would need to be explained, Tony

                                        Thank you

GOTCHA ...

Used to indicate understanding AND the unjust writ of execution, was the signal for revolt.

"Pull it over, Man! Pedestrian walking in the Spirit." :boogie:

And, Feisty too! A kindred spirit of frisky or spunky, rather like that!

peacemaker

[reFORMer]

A couple things for which I make the same plea.

Sometimes in this thread there has been the use of "positive and negative" as moral categories.  While this is is commonly done, and I suppose there is commonly some understanding of what is meant, it isn't strictly speaking a Scriptural way of designating ethical categories.  There is no power flow without positive and negative poles.  Both are good.  I just want people to speak more precisely.  We can get into trouble when we make up our own categories.  The word "rapture" for one.  Its content varies from one proponent to another.  Using Biblical terminology for the various components was significant to my awakening to the wrong ideas I'd been raised on and advancing into a more accurate adjustment to the truth and what is written.

Another one I esteem as much more important is using the word "church" or, "churches" when what is meant is Babylon and her daughters.  For some years I stopped using certain words like "Church," "eternal," or, "saved" and others because they consistently failed to communicate.  Say "the Lord" to people randomly on the street or those from this or that demonination and sometimes what it conjures in their minds is a false image, an idol, which, if there's any power there, it's demonic.  Explaining or focusing on particular Scriptural aspects was what I did to talk about these thing.  Sometimes I would use a word like Eclessia and explain why.  I really desire that when people talk about the "false vine" or apostate Institutional Christianity they'd not call it "the Church."  The Church is God's girlfriend.  Instead of "the Church" I'd either say Eclessia or Babylon with explanations.  I've gotten lazy.  Just today I wrongly spoke of some things like, "The end of the Lord is mercy" or, "Jesus, the Savior of All," saying, you'd not hear them mentioned in the churches.  I should have said you'd not hear them mentioned in the steeple houses of Babylon the Mother of Whores or something similar.  Some of the most popular books about the Church in the last 25 or so years don't even recognize the existence of "false brethren" or a Mystical Babylon.  The Institutions are the Church to them.  Those outside, that's us, are the lunatic fringe.  (That's my hair style:  lunatic fringe.)  Yet the 2nd most significant prophetic topic for number of verses is Babylon.  If that isn't being revealed in you then there is suppression of the truth.

For both these things I wish we'd be more careful to explain what we mean, mindful of the false images some common words produce in our audiences.

[jabcat]

A couple things for which I make the same plea.

Sometimes in this thread there has been the use of "positive and negative" as moral categories.  While this is is commonly done, and I suppose there is commonly some understanding of what is meant, it isn't strictly speaking a Scriptural way of designating ethical categories.  There is no power flow without positive and negative poles.  Both are good.  I just want people to speak more precisely.  We can get into trouble when we make up our own categories.  The word "rapture" for one.  Its content varies from one proponent to another.  Using Biblical terminology for the various components was significant to my awakening to the wrong ideas I'd been raised on and advancing into a more accurate adjustment to the truth and what is written.

Another one I esteem as much more important is using the word "church" or, "churches" when what is meant is Babylon and her daughters.  For some years I stopped using certain words like "Church," "eternal," or, "saved" and others because they consistently failed to communicate.  Say "the Lord" to people randomly on the street or those from this or that demonination and sometimes what it conjures in their minds is a false image, an idol, which, if there's any power there, it's demonic.  Explaining or focusing on particular Scriptural aspects was what I did to talk about these thing.  Sometimes I would use a word like Eclessia and explain why.  I really desire that when people talk about the "false vine" or apostate Institutional Christianity they'd not call it "the Church."  The Church is God's girlfriend.  Instead of "the Church" I'd either say Eclessia or Babylon with explanations.  I've gotten lazy.  Just today I wrongly spoke of some things like, "The end of the Lord is mercy" or, "Jesus, the Savior of All," saying, you'd not hear them mentioned in the churches.  I should have said you'd not hear them mentioned in the steeple houses of Babylon the Mother of Whores or something similar.  Some of the most popular books about the Church in the last 25 or so years don't even recognize the existence of "false brethren" or a Mystical Babylon.  The Institutions are the Church to them.  Those outside, that's us, are the lunatic fringe.  (That's my hair style:  lunatic fringe.)  Yet the 2nd most significant prophetic topic for number of verses is Babylon.  If that isn't being revealed in you then there is suppression of the truth.

For both these things I wish we'd be more careful to explain what we mean, mindful of the false images some common words produce in our audiences.

:thumbsup:  Although I feel the same way, I also often slip and use words I really don't believe in.  In the Forward of The Christian Bible, there's a list of about 100 words that aren't used in the translation.  This is due first of all to their inaccuracy, and secondly, because many/most are perversions inserted into the language in large part by Dark Age Pagan/Rome doctrine that "we've" accepted through the years (along with many of their ideas and Bible translations).  I don't have it with me, but the list includes such words as church [ecclesia], Lord [Master], hell [Hades, Gehenna, etc.], Jesus [Yesu], pastor [?], deacon [elder?], baptize [immerse], etc.  Does this save or lose mine or anyone else's soul, or should it be a source of conflict or condemnation?  I think not.  But I personally find it very interesting to know more the accurate origins of the words/terms, and especially their meanings...some of it for me has to do with being called out of churchianity and my desire to bring with me as little of it as possible.

[reFORMer]

Jesus has gone through various forms, at least 8 or nine are indicated in Scripture.  One is strictly female.  He was, in his animal little lamb nature slain before the casting down of the earth.  Passing through several forms, He was then slain as a human being.  He then as a spirit preached to the dead.  His resurrection form was not the same as whatever ascension does to embodiment.  Where he went is back up into Deity.  When talking to Moses God explains, as an example, He could have appeared as a ball of fire; but, then they would've been tempted to worship the sun.  So they saw no form, they only heard a voice.  Jesus is at liberty to manifest physically in any way He wants, if He wants.  He has physical being but it is as one immortal and ascended.

"O IEUE, You Yourself have become our Habitation in generation after generation..." (Ps 90:1)  Our dwelling place is God.  Many are not very developed in their perceptions relating to coming into God and God into them. The 10 are virgins because they have not been intimate with God to conceive a child of resurrection.  The bride is either with the bridegroom, or more likely, already within the house.  The 10 are a minyam.  They are witnesses  The 5 foolish virgins are those who perceive just with their Adamic senses.  The 5 wise have additional oil (anointing) to perceive with spiritual or extended senses. .  We have an anointing to see, hear, feel God and by the means of God to see things He sees, hearing and feeling by Him.  Smell has to do with discernment and taste with union.

"Now, seeing that you are sons, God delegates the spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying "Abba!  Father!" (Gal 4:7)  Jesus is here described manifesting as spirit a couple decades after His ascension.  As a glorified man He is spirit, soul and body; but, whatever those are in the form of Deity.  We are to be participants of the Divine nature by using the precious and greatest promises of Jesus.  "...all His divine power that tends to life and devoutness, [has] been presented to us through the recognition of Him Who calls us to His own glory and virtue..." (1 Pet 1:3)

This does not mean "This old word is not my home.  I'm just a travellin' through."  That is what the spirit behind false religion teaches us so we won't be much of a problem.  We're supposed to accept going down into death so the world will be left to the wicked.  But it is here the dead will be raised along with us in order to rule as a Royal Priesthood in all the earth.  We coming to a time when we will just stay.  Death won't be able to take us our anymore.  We will reign with Him.  How much of that can be entered into before the time has yet to be defined.  Elijah came into something for which God is no respecter of persons.

[Molly]

This does not mean "This old word is not my home.  I'm just a travellin' through."  That is what the spirit behind false religion teaches us so we won't be much of a problem.  We're supposed to accept going down into death so the world will be left to the wicked.  But it is here the dead will be raised along with us in order to rule as a Royal Priesthood in all the earth.  We coming to a time when we will just stay.  Death won't be able to take us our anymore.  We will reign with Him.  How much of that can be entered into before the time has yet to be defined.  Elijah came into something for which God is no respecter of persons.

This has occurred to me, too.  Sheep are ok, sons are not.  Weakness is ok, strength is not.  Even fellow Christians are alarmed by strength among their own.  Cardinal mentioned that by humility God meant pouring out ourselves so that he could fill us with himself.  The more we are filled with the glory of God, the more we are going to terrify those around us.   Jesus did just the opposite.  He poured himself out so that he could be made a little lower than the angels, so that he could come down to our level--like a big man bending down to pick up a small child.  So there is a tendency to always see him in that 'bent down' way.  He could have walked through this world in his transfigured form, as pure light,  trailing clouds of angels.  He could have done anything he wished.  His wish was for relationship.

Our differences seem to annoy some, even here.  But that's the glory of God, too.  He made us different to reflect his infinite character, and gave us the freedom to express it.  That freedom is beyond value in its preciousness to me.  Then, why is it so threatening to so many?



5Then the angel that talked with me went forth, and said unto me, Lift up now thine eyes, and see what is this that goeth forth.

6And I said, What is it? And he said, This is an ephah that goeth forth. He said moreover, This is their resemblance through all the earth.

7And, behold, there was lifted up a talent of lead: and this is a woman that sitteth in the midst of the ephah.

8And he said, This is wickedness. And he cast it into the midst of the ephah; and he cast the weight of lead upon the mouth thereof.

9Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind was in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven.

10Then said I to the angel that talked with me, Whither do these bear the ephah?

11And he said unto me, To build it an house in the land of Shinar: and it shall be established, and set there upon her own base.

--Zech 5


"ephah"

H374
אפה     איפה
'êyphâh  'êphâh
ay-faw', ay-faw'
Of Egyptian derivation; an ephah or measure for grain; hence a measure in general: - ephah, (divers) measure (-s).



"Shinar"

H8152
שׁנער
shin‛âr
shin-awr'
Probably of foreign derivation; Shinar, a plain in Babylon: - Shinar.

[Tony N]

   

      Natural= by nature

     soulical= of or pertaining to the soul,esp considered as

     the seat of man's moral and emotional NATURE

      Nature Nature Nature..natural

    auth KJV natural  NIV natural

   definitions   Websters new international dictionary of the

   ENGLISH LANGUAGE  Second edition, Unabridged

      I don't like the word soulish I prefer the expression

    Natural....and that is what I will use

   If anyone has trouble with understanding what I mean

   they can refer to the  terminology above

    The title of this topic is  Natural and Spiritual I don't see
  how my using that 'term' would need to be explained,Tony

                                        Thank you

Dear Sheila, the topic title Natural and Spiritual was chosen because everyone improperly uses that so I wanted to bring attention to it.

Shiela, I know deep in your heart you want to be closer to what God has said. Right?
So why not use a translation which is closer to what God has said rather than a "version" such as the King James "version" which is just a redone revision of other bibles of their day?

"Truly (good Christian Reader) we never thought from the beginning, that we should need to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one a good one,...but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principal good one, not justly to be excepted against, that hath been our endeavor."

Sheila, if God used the word "soulish" don't you really think we should believe Him and not use the word "natural"? A person who is in accord with nature is good. A person who goes against nature is bad.
So a natural person in the verse below would receive those things which are of the spirit of God but the soulish man is not.

1Co 2:14 Now the soulish man is not receiving those things which are of the spirit of God, for they are stupidity to him, and he is not able to know them, seeing that they are spiritually examined."

Adam was not natural but soulish. He was not receiving that which was of the spirit of God and was not able to know them. So he got kicked out of the garden for disobeying God.

(1Co 2:14)  Now the soulish man is not receiving those things which are of the spirit of God, for they are stupidity to him, and he is not able to know them, seeing that they are spiritually examined."

(1Co 15:44)  It is sown a soulish body; it is roused a spiritual body.

(1Co 15:45)  If there is a soulish body, there is a spiritual also. Thus it is written also, The first man, Adam, "became a living soul: the last Adam a vivifying Spirit."

(1Co 15:46)  But not first the spiritual, but the soulish, thereupon the spiritual."

(Jas 3:15)  This is not the wisdom coming down from above, but terrestrial, soulish, demoniacal. "

(Jud 1:19)  These are those who isolate themselves, soulish, not having the spirit."

[Molly]

(Jas 3:15)  This is not the wisdom coming down from above, but terrestrial, soulish, demoniacal. "

This is interesting--

"soulish"

G5591
ψυχικός
psuchikos
psoo-khee-kos'
From G5590; sensitive that is, animate (in distinction on the one hand from G4152, which is the higher or renovated nature; and on the other from G5446, which is the lower or bestial nature): - natural, sensual.


G5590
ψυχή
psuchē
psoo-khay'
From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315], [H7307] and [H2416]: - heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.




in distinction on the one hand from G4152, which is the higher or renovated nature
G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul;

G4152
πνευματικός
pneumatikos
phyoo-mat-ik-os'
From G4151; non-carnal, that is, (humanly) ethereal (as opposed to gross), or (daemoniacally) a spirit (concretely), or (divinely) supernatural, regenerate, religious: - spiritual. Compare G5591.


G4151
πνεῦμα
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.




and on the other from G5446, which is the lower or bestial nature

G5446
φυσικός
phusikos
foo-see-kos'
From G5449; "physical", that is, (by implication) instinctive: - natural. Compare G5591.



G5449
φύσις
phusis
foo'-sis
From G5453; growth (by germination or expansion), that is, (by implication) natural production (lineal descent); by extension a genus or sort; figuratively native disposition, constitution or usage: - ([man-]) kind, nature ([-al]).

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: AMEN, Reformer  :thumbsup:

[Molly]

1 Corinthians 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.


Adam was not just soulish--he was made a living soul.

"living"

G2198
ζάω
zaō
dzah'-o
A primary verb; to live (literally or figuratively): - life (-time), (a-) live (-ly), quick.



"soul"


G5590
ψυχή
psuchē
psoo-khay'
From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315], [H7307] and [H2416]: - heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.



The last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

"quickening"

G2227
ζωοποιέω
zōopoieō
dzo-op-oy-eh'-o
From the same as G2226 and G4160; to (re-) vitalize (literally or figuratively): - make alive, give life, quicken.


"spirit"

G4151
πνεῦμα
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.


So, Adam couldn't quicken Eve, but Jesus could?   That's why Adam stands mute while the serpent tempts Eve?

[claypot]

So, Adam couldn't quicken Eve, but Jesus could?   That's why Adam stands mute while the serpent tempts Eve?

IMO, Adam and Eve are the Spirits way of describing a person. Every single person is 'Adam and Eve'. So to answer your question, No, Adam cannot quicken Eve. A person cannot save himself. Only the Life of God can quicken a person and that is why Jesus is sent into people john 3.16.

cp