Natural and Spiritual

[Zeek]

hmm, cool.  I'll look into that more. 

[claypot]

I still have all this activity within me. A mans ENEMIES are those of his own household Jesus said. mt10.36 If this doesn't mean that each persons enemies are within then I will eat my shorts. Anger, depression, envy, ignorance, arrogance, stubborness and on and on are enemies within people.

Are all of you pure within? Do any of you get angry or moody? To me this is an anti christ essence.

Satan does possess me in a sense. Satan = adversary in my eyes and there is much within me that is very adversarial to God. Satan will not be the one who is all in all ultimately but for now 'he' is allowed to have some say in Gods economy.

Molly, you suggest to me to go and sin no more and I thank you for caring and need I say the same to you or have you overcome sin to your satisfaction. I know you have overcome sin in Christ but have you fully experienced what it is to be sin free in all of your being? I haven't but I am looking forward to it!!!!

[Cardinal]

I still have all this activity within me. A mans ENEMIES are those of his own household Jesus said. mt10.36 If this doesn't mean that each persons enemies are within then I will eat my shorts.

:cloud9: Boxers, or briefs?  :mshock:

:mrflo: Sorry, my bad. I just couldn't resist that one......(and I agree with you, so no shorts eating needed on MY watch  :laughing7: )

[claypot]

Let me get something straight here:

Some of you believe that the body of Christ is the temple of God. I do too.
But some of you believe that each member of the body of Christ is going to somehow be possessed by Satan who is going to prove by miracles that he is God and then Jesus is going to perform some sort of deliverance on each believer to get the devil out of them? Is this right? This fulfills the prophecy of

2Th 2:4 who is opposing and lifting himself up over everyone termed a god or an object of veneration, so that he is seated in the temple of God, demonstrating that he himself is God?

Mat 24:15 Whenever, then, you may be perceiving the abomination of desolation, which is declared through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him who is reading apprehend!);"

If it is I'm definately in the wrong place.

Do you people really believe you are posessed by Satan?

Tony

Tony, repetition is good so I want to chime in again. The verses you quote above come totally alive for me when I view them as God making me in His image right now. I do have within me that which is opposed to God, even now I do. I lie, cheat, steal, think lustful thoughts and so on. I do. If this that is within my essence is not an abomination of desolation then nothing is and I tell ya what, what is going on inside of me is more important than what might happen physically later on.

I firmly believe Jesus Christ is within my essence too. This is my 'holy place' for lack of a better way to describe it. I have personally witnessed abominations standing in the holy place of my life.

Do you understand this at all? I also think these Scriptures will be acted out in some physical way too as much of Scripture is.

cp

Claypot and all of you who think Satan is posessing you,
how does this spirit of Satan inside of you demonstrate by miracles that he is God so as to deceive the very elect (me)? Is that your mission in life? to deceive me and the rest of the elect?

Tony, there is that in you which is elect IMO. You are deceived somewhere along the line I am thinking or Tony, do you beleive all you hold to be truth is absolute truth? Are you beyond growing? If you are now holding as truth something that may change as you grow in truth then now you are deceived.

I don't use the phrase 'the spirit of satan'. I use what Scripture uses, Satan, adversary.

My mission in life is to be made in the image of God. I will do all I can do via grace to see this accomplished. My mission is not to deceive you, I think 'satan' is doing a good job of that now but I also believe Jesus is doing a better job of saving you so rest in God Brother.

cp

[claypot]

I still have all this activity within me. A mans ENEMIES are those of his own household Jesus said. mt10.36 If this doesn't mean that each persons enemies are within then I will eat my shorts.

:cloud9: Boxers, or briefs?  :mshock:

:mrflo: Sorry, my bad. I just couldn't resist that one......(and I agree with you, so no short eating needed on MY watch  :laughing7: )

Card, I opened myself up knowingly with my words and I truely enjoy humor so it was not your 'bad' at all. Isn't this weird? I mean I know we are all coming from different places with a lot of this stuff but can people really be as ignorant as they sound? I don't mean this disrespectfully but I really think some people are just making up counter arguements for the purpose of arguing. What do you think?

cp

[sheila]

   Hope this helps,

   The abomination of desolation is set up on 'a wing of the

   temple". Cherubs and their wings cover the ark of the

covenant.  O'covering cherub is spoken of when addressing the

King of Tyre. Sin's law in our flesh goes back to the beginning.

   The original serpent..because he spoke through a

 serpent..the beast..the mind of a beast[antiChrist spirit]

instead of  spirit of Christ/does not the sin in our flesh make

 us behave as beasts?ungodly?carnal?  The man of sin..our

  flesh inhabited with sin/or spirit of this anti-Christ.

    Paul spoke of it...that which I desire to do,I do not, that

which I do not desire to do,I do.Who will deliver me from this

 body undergoing this death? Death is the conclusion of this

 abomination in our bodies.. whoever destroys God's temple

 God will himself destroy.

  All sin is anti-christ spirit in operation..for He was sinless

 and Father's spirit is LOVE ;and all sin is spirit -operating

 against Christ  and warring within our bodies[temples]


       God has hardened the heart of the anti-christ spirit..just

  as in the day when He delivered  Israel  from Egypt. God's

 throne in our temple[bodies] is to have total Sovereignty.

 It is this anti-christ spirit that attempts to usurp God and seat

 himself in the body of mankind...in effect destroying God's

 temple.For God created man for His spirit to dwell in.

  Another ruler has lifted himself up to sit on the throne of God

  in mankind and rule..to the detriment of God and all mankind.

     Christ comes to break up the works of the devil...

  ...mighty acts of deliverance

 performed by God for His people will come to pass.

  We all have sin in our flesh..we are liars if we deny it..if we

confess them He freely forgives and cleanses us from them.

   Anything done not of the spirit of Love..and faith is SIN.

 we who have the Holy spirit..have a token of our inheritance

  but not the full delivery into the heavenly inheritance, yet.

   The spirit of the TRUTH is to lead us into all truth.

   Sadducce spirits of vipers possessed men when He came to

 the temple in Jerusalem..they sat in Moses seat[ law/judging]

  They fought against God's Christ in that temple.Christ threw

 out the money-changers and those selling doves for profit.

    Being blinded by this spirit of anti-christ they conspired and

  and crucified the spirit of Love that was of God and His Christ.

   They destroyed the temple of God..even God's word come in

   the flesh ...and He destroyed their temple,,not

  a stone upon a stone would remain.Rev 21;22 And I saw no

temple in it,for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb arethe

temple of it

  But He is building a new city..a Holy spiritual city of which His

 spirit will always dwell in. Rev22,,but the throne of God and

  the Lamb shall be in it .Rev 21;27 Nothing impure will ever

   enter it.

   

[claypot]

  Hope this helps,

   The abomination of desolation is set up on 'a wing of the

   temple". Cherubs and their wings cover the ark of the

covenant.  O'covering cherub is spoken of when addressing the

King of Tyre. Sin's law in our flesh goes back to the beginning.

   The original serpent..because he spoke through a

 serpent..the beast..the mind of a beast[antiChrist spirit]

instead of  spirit of Christ/does not the sin in our flesh make

 us behave as beasts?ungodly?carnal?  The man of sin..our

  flesh inhabited with sin/or spirit of this anti-Christ.

    Paul spoke of it...that which I desire to do,I do not, that

which I do not desire to do,I do.Who will deliver me from this

 body undergoing this death? Death is the conclusion of this

 abomination in our bodies.. whoever destroys God's temple

 God will himself destroy.

  All sin is anti-christ spirit in operation..for He was sinless

 and Father's spirit is LOVE ;and all sin is spirit -operating

 against Christ  and warring within our bodies[temples]


       God has hardened the heart of the anti-christ spirit..just

  as in the day when He delivered  Israel  from Egypt. God's

 throne in our temple[bodies] is to have total Sovereignty.

 It is this anti-christ spirit that attempts to usurp God and seat

 himself in the body of mankind...in effect destroying God's

 temple.For God created man for His spirit to dwell in.

  Another ruler has lifted himself up to sit on the throne of God

  in mankind and rule..to the detriment of God and all mankind.

     Christ comes to break up the works of the devil...

  ...mighty acts of deliverance

 performed by God for His people will come to pass.

  We all have sin in our flesh..we are liars if we deny it..if we

confess them He freely forgives and cleanses us from them.

   Anything done not of the spirit of Love..and faith is SIN.

 we who have the Holy spirit..have a token of our inheritance

  but not the full delivery into the heavenly inheritance, yet.

   The spirit of the TRUTH is to lead us into all truth.

   Sadducce spirits of vipers possessed men when He came to

 the temple in Jerusalem..they sat in Moses seat[ law/judging]

  They fought against God's Christ in that temple.Christ threw

 out the money-changers and those selling doves for profit.

    Being blinded by this spirit of anti-christ they conspired and

  and crucified the spirit of Love that was of God and His Christ.

   They destroyed the temple of God..even God's word come in

   the flesh ...and He destroyed their temple,,not

  a stone upon a stone would remain.Rev 21;22 And I saw no

temple in it,for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb arethe

temple of it

  But He is building a new city..a Holy spiritual city of which His

 spirit will always dwell in. Rev22,,but the throne of God and

  the Lamb shall be in it .Rev 21;27 Nothing impure will ever

   enter it.

   

It helps, Sheila, it helps me anyway. Thanks.

cp

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Sheila.... :thumbsup:

[Cardinal]

What do you think? cp

:cloud9: I think only the Lord knows for sure..... :dontknow:

[Molly]

I still have all this activity within me. A mans ENEMIES are those of his own household Jesus said. mt10.36 If this doesn't mean that each persons enemies are within then I will eat my shorts. Anger, depression, envy, ignorance, arrogance, stubborness and on and on are enemies within people.

Are all of you pure within? Do any of you get angry or moody? To me this is an anti christ essence.

Satan does possess me in a sense. Satan = adversary in my eyes and there is much within me that is very adversarial to God. Satan will not be the one who is all in all ultimately but for now 'he' is allowed to have some say in Gods economy.

Molly, you suggest to me to go and sin no more and I thank you for caring and need I say the same to you or have you overcome sin to your satisfaction. I know you have overcome sin in Christ but have you fully experienced what it is to be sin free in all of your being? I haven't but I am looking forward to it!!!!

I think if we read it in context, it says just what it sounds like it says, literally.


34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

37He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

--Mat 36


Do you mean to suggest that my mother, father, son, or daughter just refer to different parts of myself internally?  Or is he actually talking about our family?


[his own] "household"

G3615
οἰκιακός
oikiakos
oy-kee-ak-os'
From G3614; familiar, that is, (as noun) relatives: - they (them) of (his own) household.



As for the other, it struck me a long time ago that Jesus would always say that to people he had healed--go and sin no more--as if it were....possible!


16Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

--1 Peter 1:16

[Molly]

The abomination of desolation is set up on 'a wing of the

    temple".

The priests chambers are in the wings of the temple.

He's talking about people who will [look like] priests of God, filling that role,  but really be imposters, i.e. the antichrist.



45And he said unto me, This chamber, whose prospect is toward the south, is for the priests, the keepers of the charge of the house.

46And the chamber whose prospect is toward the north is for the priests, the keepers of the charge of the altar: these are the sons of Zadok among the sons of Levi, which come near to the LORD to minister unto him.

--Eze40




5And against the wall of the house he built chambers round about, against the walls of the house round about, both of the temple and of the oracle: and he made chambers round about:

--1 Kings 6


"chambers"

H3326
éöåÌò
yâtsûa‛
yaw-tsoo'-ah
Passive participle of H3331; spread, that is, a bed; (architecturally) an extension, that is, wing or lean to (a single story or collection): - bed, chamber, couch.


Matthew 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

[claypot]

Molly, you wrote....

I think if we read it in context, it says just what it sounds like it says, literally.


34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

36And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.

37He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

--Mat 36


Do you mean to suggest that my mother, father, son, or daughter just refer to different parts of myself internally?  Or is he actually talking about our family?

I see Jesus using life situations to prove spiritual truths in EVERYTHING He says. Molly, Jesus also said this....

If anyone comes to me, and hate  not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. lk14.26

I think Jesus was not endorsing and encouraging us to hate all these people was He? Do you believe He was?

I really think Jesus was referring to different aspects of my very essence, my being. I am to take all that I am most initimate with that is not of God and dispense with it utterly and completely. Jesus is making a real point here, not being literal. This is so clear to me. Can you see what I'm saying?

We should not love anything more than God, is Scriptures message to us here, not that we should dishonor and hate our Mothers and Fathers.

Can you see this?

cp

[Molly]

The translator uses the word 'hate' which I think, in that context, means to love less.  Although the use of this Greek word implies how much more we are to love God than anything or anybody on this earth--so that all other love looks like 'hate' perhaps--by comparison?  That's one of those hard teachings--and, I didn't get it for a long time, but now I think I can understand what it means to love him more than any member of my family, or anything else for that matter.   Following him is not such an easy thing--and it takes tremendous motivation which can only be produced by great love.

"hate"
G3404
μισέω
miseō
mis-eh'-o
From a primary word μῖσος misos (hatred); to detest (especially to persecute); by extension to love less: - hate (-ful).

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: The tabernacle is as a representation of a SINGLE MAN, also, not just a corporate expression of mankind's walk. So the animal slaying in the outer court, is the same as putting to death those carnal beastly natures we all have to deal with, ie. the enemies of our own house (hold).

House in Hebrew also means a lineage, as in the house of Moses, ect. These things are in the house of ADAM, the natural man we have to walk around carrying until he be swallowed up of immortality. Blessings....

[peacemaker]

"A falling away from the Spirit of Christ; leaves only an anti-Christ."

Unless, the field falls gently to the river!

Peacemaker

[sheila]

 Molly,

   Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are the Priests.. The Word of

   God come in flesh and the Holy spirit work the ministry

  of atonemnet for all mankind.as Priest's. There is a High

   Priest annointed for WAR [the Holy spirit]actually wars with

this  contrary spirit. There are wars within and without

      There is another word that comes in flesh that is Not

  the word of God,or of the spirit of God. It is a twisting of the

  word of God that began back in the garden...'did God really

 say? Ezekiel 28....you were in Eden the garden of God....

 you were anointed as a guardian Cherub..you were blameless

 in your ways from the day you were created,til wickedness

  was found in you...your heart became PROUD on account

 of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of

 your splendor.

   The Cherubs wings overshadowed the atonemnt cover..

   the Word of God written of Tables was inside..as well

  as manna and oil.

  There is a term..the power of the Holy spirit overshadow you

....that is the power of God and His spirit...but there is

 another spirit that wars against Jesus and the Holy spirit.

    Matthew 24  ..you will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but

 see that you are not alarmed,such thing must happen.

  v 24  false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform

 great signs and miracles....to deceive[see, just like in the

  garden...same spirit in operation]

  Jesus speaks of spiritual warfare,but there is literal warfare

  also...both within our bodies and without. Romans 7;22

  for in my inner being I delight in God's law[LOVE] but,

  I see another law at work in the members of my body...

  waging war against the law of my mind..and making me

 a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members.

  So,then,I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law

  but with the flesh the law of sin

      As far as mother against daughter etc. and this warring

  There is another 'old man" that fathered this sin in my flesh

 it was NOT GOD who planted it..not HIS SEED in  the earth

 of my body..it is this father I am not to love more than Jesus

 or my heavenly father...this 'old man' wars against  the spirit of

 my Heavenly Father and His son..that dwells in me...by the

 same token My Mother,Jerusalem Above is at odds with the

 daughter of babylon that dwells in my flesh..that harlot that

 is a cage for every unclean spirit...for by thy sorceries were all

  the nations deceived.
 
 It is in this manner that we speak of these spiritual things,

  spiritual wars,and abominations.

[Molly]

Good stuff Cardinal and Sheila--lots to think about--Thanks!

[peacemaker]

I know we are all coming from different places with a lot of this stuff but can people really be as ignorant as they sound? I don't mean this disrespectfully but I really think some people are just making up counter arguments for the purpose of arguing. What do you think?

cp

It's Rhetoric, and not in an elegant sense of the word. Nor, is it effective or persuasive.

peacemaker

[peacemaker]

Indeed, Good stuff Cardinal, Sheila, and Taffy!

       :gthumbsup:
:Book:
peacemaker

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Go Sheila!  :thumbsup:

[Molly]

On the other hand, this--

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:


Was probably a very helpful message for those who took it literally.

[Molly]

wow.  I don't know how I missed this--

5 Then the Devil took Him to the holy city,  had Him stand on the pinnacle of the temple.
--Mat 4



"pinnacle" [of the temple]

G4419
πτερύγιον
pterugion
pter-oog'-ee-on
Neuter of a presumed derivative of G4420; a winglet, that is, (figuratively) extremity (top corner): - pinnacle.




And the abomination of desolation

    will be on a wing  of the temple

    until the decreed destruction

    is poured out on the desolator."

--Daniel 9

[jabcat]

On the other hand, this--

When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:


Was probably a very helpful message for those who took it literally.

Matthew 24, right?...I see this as literal wrt the "compassing about" of Jerusalem and her destruction in 70 AD...probably some further spiritual applications as well, but I'm afraid I tend to be a little too concrete at times ...someone else will know.

God's blessing, James.

[Taffy]

Nope.


antichrist has a very specific definition

"antichrist"

G500
ἀντίχριστος
antichristos
an-tee'-khris-tos
From G473 and G5547; an opponent of the Messiah: - antichrist.



2 John 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.



Also, a more in depth definition of anti

"anti"

G473
ἀντί
anti
an-tee'
A primary particle; opposite, that is, instead or because of (rarely in addition to): - for, in the room of. Often used in composition to denote contrast, requital, substitution, correspondence, etc.

An In ward and outward application always seems to apply,  :icon_flower:

Jer 17:9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?

It is said, Its Not what goes into a MAN which defiles him , Tis what comes Out of a Man(his mouth) which does?
From the abundance OF THE heart THE mouth SPEAKS PERTAINS TO The fruit of Ones Lips.....both PRO and ANTI


Isa 57:19 I create the fruit of the lips; Peace, peace to [him that is] far off, and to [him that is] near, saith the LORD; and I will heal him. 
Hbr 13:15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of [our] lips giving thanks to his name.    [/u]

Job 33:3 My words [shall be of] the uprightness of my heart: and my lips shall utter knowledge clearly. 

The ANTI- Christ are those who speak of Lies\Guile against HE who is TRUTH..

Psa 12:3 The LORD shall cut off all flattering lips, [and] the tongue that speaketh proud things:

The Prideo fthose who Boast maybe?

Rom 2:17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, 
Rom 2:23 Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
Rom 3:27 Where [is] boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith


gee the Richman &( lazurus) shoot straight to mind
Psa 49:6 They that trust in their wealth, and boast themselves in the multitude of their riches; 
Psa 94:4 [How long] shall they utter [and] speak hard things? [and] all the workers of iniquity boast themselves?

kinda get back to those BONDservants who are yet to KNOW they are TRULY free

Rev 3:17 Because thou******* sayest******, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:


Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and [that] the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

BUT

Pro 15:25 The LORD will destroy the house of the proud: but he will establish the border of the widow. 
Pro 16:5 Every one [that is] proud in heart [is] an abomination to the LORD: [though] hand [join] in hand, he shall not be unpunished.

Pro 6:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 
Pro 21:4 An high look, and a proud heart, [and] the plowing of the wicked, [is] *****sin********

Psa 59:12 [For] the sin of their mouth [and] the words of their lips, Let them even be taken in their pride, And for the cursing and lying [which] they speak
The Day of the LORD :icon_flower:

Isa 2:12 For the day of the LORD of hosts [shall be] upon every [one that is] proud and lofty, and upon every [one that is] lifted up; and he shall be brought low:

Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

[Tony N]

Back to my question:

If, according to some of you, antichrist is dwelling in you, in the temple, and this somehow is the fulfillment of him sitting in the temple proving that he is God by miracles, how have you been creating miracles proving that you are God to deceive the elect?