Natural and Spiritual

[Taffy]

Tony
Just to add Bud,  :icon_flower:

In summary to what you posted.

If you will, the literal,serves its purpose bro....no one has said this end it doesnt . ya Know, Being an ex wwcg, WHO took most everything literally, The feasts of the Lord from Lev 23 they still keep... they are that literal, ONE tithe is not suffice...the bible speaks of three....so three tithes it was...and the list just went on...They were that Literal in KEEPING the LAW , Christ Never got a Mention from the Pulpit , except once a Yr at Passover....

As it were some 613 Laws werent enough..so they added Modern day clarity , so we could be EVEN more righteous...They were that entrenched in BEING righteous , the message was NOTHING less than LAW,....here lies  one MAJOR problem if you Just take everything literally and apply it so....They lived in the shadow,but never saw the LIGHT which cast it , waiting to  be RAISED at his return ,to fly off in the Clouds before DOOM and gloom destroyed the wicked folk....to put on their Crown and RULE the NATIONS in the Millenium( no such term, but there ya go..).When Christ is in the earth All.. men WILL ***LEARN**righteousness lest they get big bash with a ROD OF IRON...., serves em Bloody right too :sigh:

ya Know Tony these were TEACHERS,some were even Prophets predicting the time of the end by the MEASURING of the events of the day, some were pastors,and not lest forget the evangelists..yep them too, even ONE was an Apostle dont ya Know...I was was In training to be a Teacher  come the WORLD tomorrow.....they even have colleges to teach these things....

But for mine such days are behind me...., but I still remember the Literal bro....just kinda see it on another plain thesedays...as for teachers..there are many , but very few seem to be making a Living at it....,just a few thoughts to your post bro.... :icon_flower:


:icon_flower:

[Nathan]

It was all in saurcasm . . .cp and taf picked up on that as I'm sure you had to have as well . .. I made it as obvious as I could without getting too offensive.  The idea that it is you or I that is here to make teachers of anyone else reading these posts is a bit presumptous as well . . .it is Christ who gives his church those positions and people.

As far as Appollos goes . . .what he was teaching was good, but it just wasn't complete . . which is what I and others have been trying to tell you all along.  And I've already seen how receptive you've been . . .which is another reason for the saurcasm . . .that other thread that was supposed to clear the water was a hoot.  It did everything "but".  And to see that you liken yourself to that which is complete, as you're assuming that I'm in the role of that which is not . . . (is there a smiley that is just shaking one's head?)

If a person took the time to start from the beginning of "this" thread, they'd see the same pattern here as well.  The majority of the posts on here are arguments more than sharing.  The reasoning mind is like the ocean . . .innumberable rivers empty into it, but it never over flows.  It's like a fire that as much as you feed it, the more it burns . .always hungry for more.  Kind of like a horseleech . . .it latches on to it's host but never gets full.

No matter how much we argue with each other . . aions or eons . . . we'll never come to where we can say OOOOHHH!!  THAT'S IT!!  Because the natural mind never rests.  It's the bottomless pit.  Do you really think Taf made a mistake?  You know as well as the rest of us that we're on different pages.

I see if I were to go to where you are .  . . it would be reestablishing old boundaries that I finally got myself freed from.  So no, I don't see this to be like Apollos at all.  You call me to be wise, yet you see yourself as wiser.

I see neither of us as wise, but both are followers . . .I know much of how I say things is teaching . .but what I'm teaching is merely an explanation of "why" I see what I see.  My intentions are not to enforce what I say as facts.  There's always room for growth in every dimension.  I just don't have as much interest in a 15 page argument on why aion means something other than what everybody else thinks.  I would have laid it down once it was clear that the two points of view were not going to connect . .and they never did.  

I am learning from you . . .plenty . .but it's not because I see what you say as beneficial and edifying.  I'm learning how to have differences of opinion and not become condemning over such things.  I'm learning that relationship takes precedence over doctrine . . .even though I'm not a perfect example even that sometimes as I do tend to get tangled up in the arguments . . but I'm at least beginning to see sooner when things are not in season.  

What I've learned most in these discussions is . .there is a reason why I'm to apply Scripture to "me" and not enforce my interpretation, or standards upon you . . .because if I do . . .there's no end to the arguing that follows.  So for me, the Apollos analogy is a picture to me of my carnal mind not having the complete picture and the Spirit comes alongside me and reveals a better way . . .it has nothing to do with me applying it to you or anyone else.  I don't grow much if I keep pitching the food intended for me over into someone elses trough.

[Tony N]

Thanks Taffy,
There is a guy I work with here for Concordant and he too was in wwcg. He tells me the same horror stories.

So I can see where you are coming from. I see why it is so important for you (as it is for me really) to not be in the shadows and types but in the reality.

Thanks for sharing bro. It lets me know you are one of the wise who can learn for God brought you out of that mess. Yet, in the end, I'm sure you did learn alot from it all and it helped mature you in Christ, no?

Nathan, I'm going to hit two turtles with one stone here. Or is that birds? LOL

Nathan, I realize you said it was all in sarcasm, but I re-read it even after you told me it was and I cannot see how anyone could tell it was.

I realize God gives those positions of pastor, teacher, evangelist etc. to the church. Is it wrong to state that if God has given you to the church as a teacher that you should never let anyone know that is what God has given you? Paul said over and over what position he had. He didn't just wait for people to figure it out. Sure, I am no Paul and never will be. Also I am not a self appointed teacher but the church acknowledged me to be a teacher. It's a hard job but someone's gotta do it.  :laughing7:

I also am not saying I am correct in everything. I learn from others too believe it or not. Just yesterday I learned that someone can't learn anything from what I teach here  :laughing7: So I have learned to no longer engage with that person.

Nathan, is everything on these boards supposed to be about sharing? rather than sharing our points of view even if one does not agree with those points of view?

Is arguing bad?
(Rth 1:18)  When Naomi realized that she was resolute to go with her, she left off arguing with her further.

(Act 19:8)  Now, entering the synagogue, he spoke boldly for three months, arguing and persuading as to that which concerns the kingdom of God."

(Act 19:9)  Now, as some were hardened and stubborn, saying evil things of the way before the multitude, withdrawing from them, he severs the disciples, arguing day by day in the school of Tyrannus."

(Act 20:9)  Now a certain young man named Eutychus, being seated on the window, sinking into a deep sleep while Paul is arguing still more, being sunk from sleep, falls down from the third story, and was picked up dead."

(Act 24:12)  And they neither found me in the sanctuary arguing with anyone, or making a concourse of the throng, nor in the synagogues, nor at the city,

(Act 24:25)  Now as he is arguing concerning righteousness, and self-control, and the impending judgment, Felix, becoming affrighted, answered, "Now go. Yet, given occasion, I shall be calling for you,

(Heb 12:5)  And you have been oblivious of the entreaty which is arguing with you as with sons: My son, do not disdain the discipline of the Lord, Nor yet faint when being exposed by Him."

I'll let you decide.

anyway, did you or Taffy learn anything from the "soulish first then the spiritual" being Adam and Christ and not everything written in the Bible? Just curious.

Love ya bro.

Tony, the failing teacher who will probably get a gum drop rather than a crown when he gets to heaven.

[Molly]

Hi Tony,

Yesterday I was talking to someone who, like you, thinks the temple will be rebuilt, but she didn't know what scriptures were claiming that.  So I was wondering if you could list the scriptures that you use to claim that yourself?   

As to the natural and spiritual--there are people who are really suffering (and dying) today because of what is being done to them by those in power, and I doubt they would be convinced or comforted that it is really all spiritual.

Greetings Molly,
I totally agree with you on the the suffering of today. I don't believe they are suffering spiritually.

As to the future temple to be rebuilt, it is my understanding that John the revelator was "in spirit in the Lord's Day". In other words, his revelation was about him seeing into the future day of the Lord when he was on the isle of Patmos around 90 some A.D. He was told to measure the temple in that future day.
In his revelation he also saw into the future and saw a messenger measuring the city on the new earth.

2Th 2:4 who is opposing and lifting himself up over everyone termed a god or an object of veneration, so that he is seated in the temple of God, demonstrating that he himself is God?

The temple John was to measure is the temple in which the man of lawlessness will show that he is God and when Christ comes back he will despatch (cut off) that man (2 Thess.2:8).

There was no man actually demonstrating he was God in 70 A.D. There was no man cut off by Christ that was demonstrating my miracles and signs that he was God in 70 A.D.

Therefore the temple must be future.

Also, I can't find it right now but I believe the measurements of Ezekiel's temple is larger than any temple yet to date so there must be another temple to be built.

Thanks, Tony.  We looked at those scriptures you mentioned, but neither was specific enough to convince us they were a prophecy of a rebuilt temple.  Like others said, they could be referring in a symbolic way to the temple of the body, or to the temple built without hands, or even to the earthly churches that now exist--like St Peter's Cathedral, which certainly would qualify as an earthly 'temple.'

I thought there might be some prophecy scriptures floating around in the Old Testament which claim the temple in Jerusalem will be rebuilt and animal sacrifices will be made by Levite priests--at the end times.  Are you aware of anything like that?

[Nathan]

Hey Molly, in Revelation there is a passage in there about ending the daily sacrifice . . I'm not on my normal computer so I can't try to dig it up . . . but the teaching is, because there currently are no sacrifices taking place now, this then indicates that this is talking about when the temple is rebuilt and the antichrist has given the Jews permission to start up their animal sacrifices . . it's all supposed to be centered around the 7 year tribulation.

Jeremiah 3:16 actually states just the opposite . . I "think" that's the right passage  . . just off the top of my head . . .which means now that I've given you that .. .I'm left with NOTHING up there now . . .sigh . . .  :mshock:

[Nathan]

Nathan, I realize you said it was all in sarcasm, but I re-read it even after you told me it was and I cannot see how anyone could tell it was.

This is authentic Tony here . . . "You" realize I said it in sarcasm, but you can't see how anyone else could?

What, praytell, was it that caused you to know that anyone else who's read my posts would not know?

[Molly]

Hey Molly, in Revelation there is a passage in there about ending the daily sacrifice . . I'm not on my normal computer so I can't try to dig it up . . . but the teaching is, because there currently are no sacrifices taking place now, this then indicates that this is talking about when the temple is rebuilt and the antichrist has given the Jews permission to start up their animal sacrifices . . it's all supposed to be centered around the 7 year tribulation.

Jeremiah 3:16 actually states just the opposite . . I "think" that's the right passage  . . just off the top of my head . . .which means now that I've given you that .. .I'm left with NOTHING up there now . . .sigh . . .  :mshock:

lol Thanks Nathan.  Do you mean this from the book of Daniel?

20 While I was speaking and praying, confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel and making my request to the LORD my God for his holy hill- 21 while I was still in prayer, Gabriel, the man I had seen in the earlier vision, came to me in swift flight about the time of the evening sacrifice. 22 He instructed me and said to me, "Daniel, I have now come to give you insight and understanding. 23 As soon as you began to pray, an answer was given, which I have come to tell you, for you are highly esteemed. Therefore, consider the message and understand the vision:
24 "Seventy 'sevens'  are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish  transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.

25 "Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree  to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One,  the ruler, comes, there will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.' It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing.  The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.'  In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him. 

--Daniel 9



We have to remember that Daniel was in exile at the time of this vision and the temple and the city of Jerusalem had been destroyed by the Babylonians.  It would indeed be rebuilt after this, and animal sacrifice resumed.  Then we have the 3 year ministry of Jesus much later--the Anointed One--at the end of which he tells the Jews their house [temple] is left to them deslolate--because they will not see him again, after which he is 'cut off'--dies.

So without working out all the details, I would have to say this is a prophecy that has already been fulfilled with the rebuilding of the temple and, later, the coming of the Messiah, and the destruction of the temple in 70ad.  For now, thats my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Nathan]

Yup, Daniel 9 . .that's what I said :laughing7:

And I agree with you totally . . .A.D.70 destroyed it . . but I would add . . that's not what the traditional teaching is on it . . .it's futuristic . .that's why their dead set on rebuilding it.  To fulfill the almighty prophecy . . .

[Molly]

Yup, Daniel 9 . .that's what I said :laughing7:

And I agree with you totally . . .A.D.70 destroyed it . . but I would add . . that's not what the traditional teaching is on it . . .it's futuristic . .that's why their dead set on rebuilding it.  To fulfill the almighty prophecy . . .

They can read as well as we can.  There is no way to misread this has already happened taking the historical context into consideration.

I want to see an Old Testament prophecy that specifically says the temple will be rebuilt after 70ad.  So far, I have seen none.

Unless and until I see that, I will continue to believe this is a trick of the antichrist to set up his own world system, making himself God.  I'm sure he wants to do that, and he's deceiving the whole world into believing it will happen, at the moment, but I don't so far see anything that says he will succeed.

Prophecy is amazingly accurate if you line it up correctly with actual historical events.

[Tony N]

Nathan, I realize you said it was all in sarcasm, but I re-read it even after you told me it was and I cannot see how anyone could tell it was.

This is authentic Tony here . . . "You" realize I said it in sarcasm, but you can't see how anyone else could?

What, praytell, was it that caused you to know that anyone else who's read my posts would not know?

Nathan, AFTER you told me you said it in sarcasm then I realized it was in sarcasm. I did not realize it was in sarcasm without you telling me it was in sarcasm.

I would never have known it was in sarcasm had you not told me it was.

In fact, I really doubt it was in sarcasm. You probably just felt bad that you said some mean things and when I brought some things up to you about what you wrote, you put on a fair face in the flesh and said you were just kidding.

[Molly]

Anyone who thinks the temple is outside of himself, or a building such as St. Peter's Cathedral, the local church, or the temple of the mount, is seriously deceived.  The Bible cannot make it any clearer what the temple of God is and was always meant to be.  The natural was meant to be an exact replication of the spiritual, but it is in the spiritual that the natural is fulfilled.



16Don't you know that you yourselves are God's temple and that God's Spirit lives in you?

--1 Cor 3:16



1 Corinthians 6:19
Don't you realize that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, who lives in you and was given to you by God? You do not belong to yourself,



2 Corinthians 6:16
... For we are the temple of the living God. As God said:"I will live in them and walk among them.I will be their God,and they will be my people.

[Tony N]

Let me get something straight here:

Some of you believe that the body of Christ is the temple of God. I do too.
But some of you believe that each member of the body of Christ is going to somehow be possessed by Satan who is going to prove by miracles that he is God and then Jesus is going to perform some sort of deliverance on each believer to get the devil out of them? Is this right? This fulfills the prophecy of

2Th 2:4 who is opposing and lifting himself up over everyone termed a god or an object of veneration, so that he is seated in the temple of God, demonstrating that he himself is God?

Mat 24:15 Whenever, then, you may be perceiving the abomination of desolation, which is declared through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him who is reading apprehend!);"

If it is I'm definately in the wrong place.

Do you people really believe you are posessed by Satan?

Tony

[Molly]

Let me get something straight here:

Some of you believe that the body of Christ is the temple of God. I do too.
But some of you believe that each member of the body of Christ is going to somehow be possessed by Satan who is going to prove by miracles that he is God and then Jesus is going to perform some sort of deliverance on each believer to get the devil out of them? Is this right? This fulfills the prophecy of

2Th 2:4 who is opposing and lifting himself up over everyone termed a god or an object of veneration, so that he is seated in the temple of God, demonstrating that he himself is God?

Mat 24:15 Whenever, then, you may be perceiving the abomination of desolation, which is declared through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him who is reading apprehend!);"

If it is I'm definately in the wrong place.

Do you people really believe you are posessed by Satan?

Tony

I believe that (2 thess 2) is referring to one man who is presenting himself to the world as the Lord Jesus Christ--or a substitute for Him.  If Christ is dwelling in me, do I then require you to bow down to me, to worship me, to do everything I tell you to do because I am God?  No--of course not.  But there is one who does--the antichrist--because satan wants to be worshipped.

[Taffy]

Let me get something straight here:

Some of you believe that the body of Christ is the temple of God. I do too.
But some of you believe that each member of the body of Christ is going to somehow be possessed by Satan who is going to prove by miracles that he is God and then Jesus is going to perform some sort of deliverance on each believer to get the devil out of them? Is this right? This fulfills the prophecy of

2Th 2:4 who is opposing and lifting himself up over everyone termed a god or an object of veneration, so that he is seated in the temple of God, demonstrating that he himself is God?

Mat 24:15 Whenever, then, you may be perceiving the abomination of desolation, which is declared through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him who is reading apprehend!);"

If it is I'm definately in the wrong place.

Do you people really believe you are posessed by Satan?

Tony

Hi T...

Theres quite a few older thread on this ANTi-Christ..cant seem to think what they are titled for now...
paraphraised

and as ya Now know more of my History :icon_flower:

Again for mine- ......The carnality of man which is enmity, our VERY soulish nature , Likened to the BEAST IS the VERY heart of **MAN***,that which is DECEITFUL above ALL THINGS..  :icon_flower:

for me we are IN the DAY of the Lord, (without need to further discuss it...,)
this very Nature(son of perdition, (vessel) of Destruction) comes to Death when TRUTH is revealed, as theif in the Night( Christ) who comes to RE=veil WHO HE IS..again T ,WE SPEAK OF the Inward man , (each man in HIS own Time,)..TO reclaim HIS rightful Throne in the HEART\mind( Temple) of man ie, the NC...    :cloud9:

Death of the OLD man , RE-born ANEW :icon_flower:


As I say Tony Tis for Mine Bro   :icon_flower:

[claypot]

Let me get something straight here:

Some of you believe that the body of Christ is the temple of God. I do too.
But some of you believe that each member of the body of Christ is going to somehow be possessed by Satan who is going to prove by miracles that he is God and then Jesus is going to perform some sort of deliverance on each believer to get the devil out of them? Is this right? This fulfills the prophecy of

2Th 2:4 who is opposing and lifting himself up over everyone termed a god or an object of veneration, so that he is seated in the temple of God, demonstrating that he himself is God?

Mat 24:15 Whenever, then, you may be perceiving the abomination of desolation, which is declared through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him who is reading apprehend!);"

If it is I'm definately in the wrong place.

Do you people really believe you are posessed by Satan?

Tony

Tony, repetition is good so I want to chime in again. The verses you quote above come totally alive for me when I view them as God making me in His image right now. I do have within me that which is opposed to God, even now I do. I lie, cheat, steal, think lustful thoughts and so on. I do. If this that is within my essence is not an abomination of desolation then nothing is and I tell ya what, what is going on inside of me is more important than what might happen physically later on.

I firmly believe Jesus Christ is within my essence too. This is my 'holy place' for lack of a better way to describe it. I have personally witnessed abominations standing in the holy place of my life.

Do you understand this at all? I also think these Scriptures will be acted out in some physical way too as much of Scripture is.

cp

[Molly]

I lie, cheat, steal, think lustful thoughts and so on.

You do? :mshock:

[claypot]

I lie, cheat, steal, think lustful thoughts and so on.

You do? :mshock:

Molly, you have no idea!  :mblush:

Or if I read you right, maybe you do!!!

cp

[Tony N]

Let me get something straight here:

Some of you believe that the body of Christ is the temple of God. I do too.
But some of you believe that each member of the body of Christ is going to somehow be possessed by Satan who is going to prove by miracles that he is God and then Jesus is going to perform some sort of deliverance on each believer to get the devil out of them? Is this right? This fulfills the prophecy of

2Th 2:4 who is opposing and lifting himself up over everyone termed a god or an object of veneration, so that he is seated in the temple of God, demonstrating that he himself is God?

Mat 24:15 Whenever, then, you may be perceiving the abomination of desolation, which is declared through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him who is reading apprehend!);"

If it is I'm definately in the wrong place.

Do you people really believe you are posessed by Satan?

Tony

Tony, repetition is good so I want to chime in again. The verses you quote above come totally alive for me when I view them as God making me in His image right now. I do have within me that which is opposed to God, even now I do. I lie, cheat, steal, think lustful thoughts and so on. I do. If this that is within my essence is not an abomination of desolation then nothing is and I tell ya what, what is going on inside of me is more important than what might happen physically later on.

I firmly believe Jesus Christ is within my essence too. This is my 'holy place' for lack of a better way to describe it. I have personally witnessed abominations standing in the holy place of my life.

Do you understand this at all? I also think these Scriptures will be acted out in some physical way too as much of Scripture is.

cp

Claypot and all of you who think Satan is posessing you,
how does this spirit of Satan inside of you demonstrate by miracles that he is God so as to deceive the very elect (me)? Is that your mission in life? to deceive me and the rest of the elect?

[Molly]

I lie, cheat, steal, think lustful thoughts and so on.

You do? :mshock:

Molly, you have no idea!  :mblush:

Or if I read you right, maybe you do!!!

cp

Go and sin no more. [Jn 8:11]

[Molly]

Let me get something straight here:

Some of you believe that the body of Christ is the temple of God. I do too.
But some of you believe that each member of the body of Christ is going to somehow be possessed by Satan who is going to prove by miracles that he is God and then Jesus is going to perform some sort of deliverance on each believer to get the devil out of them? Is this right? This fulfills the prophecy of

2Th 2:4 who is opposing and lifting himself up over everyone termed a god or an object of veneration, so that he is seated in the temple of God, demonstrating that he himself is God?

Mat 24:15 Whenever, then, you may be perceiving the abomination of desolation, which is declared through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him who is reading apprehend!);"

If it is I'm definately in the wrong place.

Do you people really believe you are posessed by Satan?

Tony

Tony, repetition is good so I want to chime in again. The verses you quote above come totally alive for me when I view them as God making me in His image right now. I do have within me that which is opposed to God, even now I do. I lie, cheat, steal, think lustful thoughts and so on. I do. If this that is within my essence is not an abomination of desolation then nothing is and I tell ya what, what is going on inside of me is more important than what might happen physically later on.

I firmly believe Jesus Christ is within my essence too. This is my 'holy place' for lack of a better way to describe it. I have personally witnessed abominations standing in the holy place of my life.

Do you understand this at all? I also think these Scriptures will be acted out in some physical way too as much of Scripture is.

cp

Claypot and all of you who think Satan is posessing you,
how does this spirit of Satan inside of you demonstrate by miracles that he is God so as to deceive the very elect (me)? Is that your mission in life? to deceive me and the rest of the elect?

There are plenty of those and have been from the beginning.

Matthew 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.



1 John 2:18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

[Tony N]

Let me get something straight here:

Some of you believe that the body of Christ is the temple of God. I do too.
But some of you believe that each member of the body of Christ is going to somehow be possessed by Satan who is going to prove by miracles that he is God and then Jesus is going to perform some sort of deliverance on each believer to get the devil out of them? Is this right? This fulfills the prophecy of

2Th 2:4 who is opposing and lifting himself up over everyone termed a god or an object of veneration, so that he is seated in the temple of God, demonstrating that he himself is God?

Mat 24:15 Whenever, then, you may be perceiving the abomination of desolation, which is declared through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him who is reading apprehend!);"

If it is I'm definately in the wrong place.

Do you people really believe you are posessed by Satan?

Tony

Tony, repetition is good so I want to chime in again. The verses you quote above come totally alive for me when I view them as God making me in His image right now. I do have within me that which is opposed to God, even now I do. I lie, cheat, steal, think lustful thoughts and so on. I do. If this that is within my essence is not an abomination of desolation then nothing is and I tell ya what, what is going on inside of me is more important than what might happen physically later on.

I firmly believe Jesus Christ is within my essence too. This is my 'holy place' for lack of a better way to describe it. I have personally witnessed abominations standing in the holy place of my life.

Do you understand this at all? I also think these Scriptures will be acted out in some physical way too as much of Scripture is.

cp

Claypot and all of you who think Satan is posessing you,
how does this spirit of Satan inside of you demonstrate by miracles that he is God so as to deceive the very elect (me)? Is that your mission in life? to deceive me and the rest of the elect?

There are plenty of those and have been from the beginning.

Matthew 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.



1 John 2:18
Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

O.K. so all of you here are antichrists?

[Molly]

Nope.


antichrist has a very specific definition

"antichrist"

G500
ἀντίχριστος
antichristos
an-tee'-khris-tos
From G473 and G5547; an opponent of the Messiah: - antichrist.



2 John 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.



Also, a more in depth definition of anti

"anti"

G473
ἀντί
anti
an-tee'
A primary particle; opposite, that is, instead or because of (rarely in addition to): - for, in the room of. Often used in composition to denote contrast, requital, substitution, correspondence, etc.

[jabcat]

:.

O.K. so all of you here are antichrists?

Just a reminder you're mainly talking to 3 or 4 people recently in this thread, brother Tony.  There's a whole lot of members around, with many different levels of understanding...and hopefully all sincerely trying to understand the things of God :thumbsup:

[Zeek]

Nope.


antichrist has a very specific definition

"antichrist"

G500
ἀντίχριστος
antichristos
an-tee'-khris-tos
From G473 and G5547; an opponent of the Messiah: - antichrist.



2 John 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Rom 8:6  If your sinful nature controls your mind, there is death. But if the Holy Spirit controls your mind, there is life and peace.

Rom 8:7  For the sinful nature is always hostile to God. It never did obey God's laws, and it never will.

Rom 8:8  That's why those who are still under the control of their sinful nature can never please God.

Rom 8:9 But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of God living in you. (And remember that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them are not Christians at all.)

[Molly]

Nope.


antichrist has a very specific definition

"antichrist"

G500
ἀντίχριστος
antichristos
an-tee'-khris-tos
From G473 and G5547; an opponent of the Messiah: - antichrist.



2 John 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Rom 8:6  If your sinful nature controls your mind, there is death. But if the Holy Spirit controls your mind, there is life and peace.

Rom 8:7  For the sinful nature is always hostile to God. It never did obey God's laws, and it never will.

Rom 8:8  That's why those who are still under the control of their sinful nature can never please God.

Rom 8:9 But you are not controlled by your sinful nature. You are controlled by the Spirit if you have the Spirit of God living in you. (And remember that those who do not have the Spirit of Christ living in them are not Christians at all.)

Yes, but if they are hostile to God or an enemy of God does that make them an antichrist?

I don't think so.  Antichrist is one who is a 'deceiver.'  That's not saying he is deceived.  He is deceiving others.

He is an opponent to the Messiah, or even placing himself as a substitute Messiah.

It has a very specific meaning, and 'hostile' just doesn't meet it.