Natural and Spiritual

[Zeek]

Z, we are growing. I think we will always be growing in some form. It is good to grow from one state of being to another and in the transition we will invariably be in both worlds at the same time until the old totally passes away.

You know I kind of hope the old never passes away in one sense, I hope it passes away in the sense that I learn to deal with it better. Do you understand?

cp

transition? 

in labor, being pushed through the birth canal rather than already delivered?  is that what u mean??

[Nathan]

Jeeze Louise you guys!  It's taken me about 45 minutes to catch up just from yesterday!  what a WONDERFUL thread this is turning into.  There is so much stuff flowing out of all of you.  Claypot . .man, what an inspiration your posts have been.  I truly enjoyed seeing you connect the dots as the picture of Adam, Eve, and the serpent come into true perspective.  It is SOOOOO hard to just read through these posts without wanting to reply to each one of them.  But in the end, I feel like I just stepped out of a shower.  You guys have come to the table not prepared to eat, but to wash each others feet and indeed . . .you have washed mine and words can not explain the gratitude I have for all of you.  

I guess we're also going to now have to give Kim a new name being that she's now ms. 1,000.  She's become a new "day" with her illuminating "light" like a shining "star" FIXED in the heavens (spirit realm).  So . . .what do we call you now kim?  Day light?  Daystar???  

And yes . . .sigh . . . the truth is out . . . I "am" Mel Gibson.  Even though no one has seen a picture of me, my good looks ooze through my words . . .some things just can't be hidden I guess. :banana: :banana:

[claypot]

Nathan: And yes . . .sigh . . . the truth is out . . . I "am" Mel Gibson.  Even though no one has seen a picture of me, my good looks ooze through my words . . .some things just can't be hidden I guess.

I always knew you were Mel but I wanted to keep your secret. Now it's a good thing I'm heterosexual and married or your 'good looks' just might have been too much for me. You're all Molly's!

cp

[Molly]

Z, we are growing. I think we will always be growing in some form. It is good to grow from one state of being to another and in the transition we will invariably be in both worlds at the same time until the old totally passes away.

You know I kind of hope the old never passes away in one sense, I hope it passes away in the sense that I learn to deal with it better. Do you understand?

cp

transition? 

in labor, being pushed through the birth canal rather than already delivered?  is that what u mean??

Sorta like the narrow way Zeek?  :grin: 

Hardpressed? Squeezed? Something of that sort?

How do you make oil?  By squeezing olives.

Sometimes I feel like the oil is being squeezed out of me by stresses beyond my control...

And what anoints the kings and priests?  the oil.


We are to always have the oil, even though the bridegroom is tarrying.....lest we miss him...




10And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

---Mat 29




John 20:19
Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

[claypot]

Z, we are growing. I think we will always be growing in some form. It is good to grow from one state of being to another and in the transition we will invariably be in both worlds at the same time until the old totally passes away.

You know I kind of hope the old never passes away in one sense, I hope it passes away in the sense that I learn to deal with it better. Do you understand?

cp

transition? 

in labor, being pushed through the birth canal rather than already delivered?  is that what u mean??

You got what I meant, Z.

Also you got me thinking about the old that gets done away with. I think I'm seeing this differently. As I wrote way before, a friend was concerned that we would lose our good old boy identities 'in Heaven'. I don't really know you, Z, but I have to believe you have some awesome personal traits that make you, you. I see some of you here on this forum and from what I see I wouldn't want to see those disappear or even changed for that matter.

I'm thinking it's a perspective thing again. OK, here's and example. I have a flat tire. My usual way of responding to flat tires may be to curse and yell and get all frutrated. Now something happens within me. I still get a flat tire and maybe even still get frustrated but a new manifestation emerges from me. Instead of negative vibes coming from my dealing with the flat, good vibes come through.

Even in this life of the flesh it is a perspective game. It's not what happens so much as how I view it. I'm not advocating a think positive attitude just trying to explain how we can change within our very beings without being changed in our essences.

I think the Christ being revealed in us gives us a new perspective about all things. Of course it is much much more than that but these are just the start of some new thoughts you started in me.

cp

[Taffy]

15But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,

16To reveal his Son in me,

--Gal 1


"reveal"

G601
ἀποκαλύπτω
apokaluptō
ap-ok-al-oop'-to
From G575 and G2572; to take off the cover, that is, disclose: - reveal.


Oh my goodness...apokalupto...That's the Apocalypse?  The lifting of the veil?  :mshock:


:bgdance:

He said He would destroy the FACE OF **the covering** cast over the nations and the veil is His flesh (not knowing Him by the flesh) Wouldnt you think it was an OPEN FACE beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord? The unveiling or revealing of Jesus Christ in us.

2Cr 4:6 For God, who commanded the **light** to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to [give] the light of the*** knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ **


:icon_flower:

Rev 21:11 Having the ***glory of God: and her light ***[was] like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
Rev 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree [were] for the healing of the nations.

Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

Rev 22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name [shall be] in their foreheads.


Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

[Molly]

  wow ! ,  :icon_flower:  there is nothing more to add guys cept this maybe  :thumbsup:



Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you,


and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:


Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;


Col 1:26 [Even] the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:


Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:


Col 1:29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

  :HeartThrob:

Amen Rose! What a beautiful  post! You know just like Johns ministry where John decreased and Christ did increase in the lives of his followers. You can sorta see the same thing in the apostles not preach themselves but Christ as Lord, thus the record of John given on his behalf, and his own profession in which he failed not to confess when asked who he was. That he was sent to bear a witness to that light, but was not that light. Even as the friend of the bridegroom (like Paul) who wanted to present them to ONE HUSBAND and the travail in their own positions to serve the Lord and hearing the voice of the bridegroom (or Christ formed in them) was their highest joy. Always pointing to Christ not themselves. I loved that. Paul speaks of begetting them through the gospel. Laboring with Christ to bring forth to delievery it appears.

:HeartThrob:

"the friend of the bridegroom"

I love that--

The best man, the midwife, the angel of God, ---the ambassador from the Holy City--apostolos--the apostle.


John 3:29
He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

[Nathan]

One thing I do remember wanting to touch on was the idea of the serpent no longer existing . . . I see this to be connected one, to what Taf just posted about no more curse . .and two . .no more seas.  It is as someone commented earlier on this, seas represent both carnality and Holy Spirit, depending on the context.  In this setting . .in Revelation, I am certain it's referring to no more carnality.  There is another picture in the same book where Jesus has a little book and he's swearing . ..giving an oath while one foot is on the sea, the other is on the land. 

Anyone see the significance of what this is a picture of?  I'm curious.  the sea and land . . .any ideas?

[Nathan]

  wow ! ,  :icon_flower:  there is nothing more to add guys cept this maybe  :thumbsup:



Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you,


and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:


Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;


Col 1:26 [Even] the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:


Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:


Col 1:29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

  :HeartThrob:

Amen Rose! What a beautiful  post! You know just like Johns ministry where John decreased and Christ did increase in the lives of his followers. You can sorta see the same thing in the apostles not preach themselves but Christ as Lord, thus the record of John given on his behalf, and his own profession in which he failed not to confess when asked who he was. That he was sent to bear a witness to that light, but was not that light. Even as the friend of the bridegroom (like Paul) who wanted to present them to ONE HUSBAND and the travail in their own positions to serve the Lord and hearing the voice of the bridegroom (or Christ formed in them) was their highest joy. Always pointing to Christ not themselves. I loved that. Paul speaks of begetting them through the gospel. Laboring with Christ to bring forth to delievery it appears.

:HeartThrob:

"the friend of the bridegroom"

I love that--

The best man, the midwife, the angel of God, ---the ambassador from the Holy City--apostolos--the apostle.


John 3:29
He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

Were not the ten virgins considered as friends of the bride groom?

[claypot]

I hear ya Fire.

Like in my last post about retaining the old. I am seeing that maybe the way I look at putting off the old and putting on the new is wrong. It is to be done for sure but I don't know if, by taking the old away as I have viewed it, would be to create a new that is so new as to not be me.

In other words, I think much of what I think of as the old man, isn't. What is the old may be whatever is in me that causes me to view things wrongly. OK, this is getting weird, hard to put into words. Any help out there, like telling me to shut up?

cp

[Taffy]

One thing I do remember wanting to touch on was the idea of the serpent no longer existing . . . I see this to be connected one, to what Taf just posted about no more curse . .and two . .no more seas.  It is as someone commented earlier on this, seas represent both carnality and Holy Spirit, depending on the context.  In this setting . .in Revelation, I am certain it's referring to no more carnality.  There is another picture in the same book where Jesus has a little book and he's swearing . ..giving an oath while one foot is on the sea, the other is on the land. 

Anyone see the significance of what this is a picture of?  I'm curious.  the sea and land . . .any ideas?

Not sure Nate , Kinda see it after God declaring Man( after his image) having Dominion over the Earth and sea, IN THE spirtual sence that is

Eze 38:20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that [are] upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Maybe Rosey or others could expound more  :icon_flower:

[claypot]

Nathan: One thing I do remember wanting to touch on was the idea of the serpent no longer existing . . . I see this to be connected one, to what Taf just posted about no more curse . .and two . .no more seas.  It is as someone commented earlier on this, seas represent both carnality and Holy Spirit, depending on the context.  In this setting . .in Revelation, I am certain it's referring to no more carnality.  There is another picture in the same book where Jesus has a little book and he's swearing . ..giving an oath while one foot is on the sea, the other is on the land. 

Anyone see the significance of what this is a picture of?  I'm curious.  the sea and land . . .any ideas?



Nathan, those were the examples I was thinking of when I wrote about the water and blood issuing from the side of Jesus. I think the water in that context represents how the carnality is drained from us through crucifixion.

I could live for a million years trying to get rid of the mortality and corruption in me but I wouldn't be able to do it. Not to be disrespectful to our Lord but I see Jesus as kind of a sin sponge. He is revealed in us and absorbs all our sins and is squeezed out (crucified) into a lake of eternal forgiveness (Our God).

cp

[Cardinal]

Anyone see the significance of what this is a picture of?  I'm curious.  the sea and land . . .any ideas?[/b]

:cloud9: Hi CP, finally made it to the last page.....great posts by all! Anyway...

Sea = waters above the firmament (firmament is heaven typified by inner court realm)

Land = waters below the firmament = waters (spirits) in flesh (outer court realm)

Christ our mediator stands between us and the Father, in the firmament. This was illustrated by what He said to Nicodemus, which was basically, I'm speaking to you right here, but I'm in heaven. And why Paul said our conversation is in heaven, because He lifts us up to be seated in heavenly places IN HIM. We can't speak out of a place we don't dwell in. Our "accent" gives it away every time.  :winkgrin: Blessings...

[claypot]

cp wrote: I could live for a million years trying to get rid of the mortality and corruption in me but I wouldn't be able to do it. Not to be disrespectful to our Lord but I see Jesus as kind of a sin sponge. He is revealed in us and absorbs all our sins and is squeezed out (crucified) into a lake of eternal forgiveness (Our God).

cp

Let me add that I put this very simply but I also see us as with Jesus during this whole process. We have absorbed sin, we get squeezed with Jesus. This is God making us into His image and we know Who is the image of God, don't we?

(Jesus) Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him: And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist. And He is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead....col1.15

cp

[claypot]

Anyone see the significance of what this is a picture of?  I'm curious.  the sea and land . . .any ideas?[/b]

:cloud9: Hi CP, finally made it to the last page.....great posts by all! Anyway...

Sea = waters above the firmament (firmament is heaven typified by inner court realm)

Land = waters below the firmament = waters (spirits) in flesh (outer court realm)

Christ our mediator stands between us and the Father, in the firmament. This was illustrated by what He said to Nicodemus, which was basically, I'm speaking to you right here, but I'm in heaven. And why Paul said our conversation is in heaven, because He lifts us up to be seated in heavenly places IN HIM. We can't speak out of a place we don't dwell in. Our "accent" gives it away every time.  :winkgrin: Blessings...

Always say so much via the written word, you do, Card. Speak forth and do not hold back. I am like that robot in that movie that just needed more input and your input is coveted.

cp

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: He uses different words that hide the same principle all through there. No more sea in this case is no more outer court realm, ie. ALL have come into the presence of the Lord.

Waters below the firmament can also mean anything created by the Spirit, ie. ANYTHING below the firmament which is heaven, which would include natural land. That's why He can interchange the words but the heart of the matter is the same. Blessings...

[claypot]

Card Im curious, what do you do with "No more Sea" then within that similitude?

Fire, I know you asked Card but may I add my 2 cents? I think of these statements of the Spirit.......

And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and [there were] seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God. 6  And before the throne [there was] a  sea  of  glass  like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, [were] four beasts full of eyes before and behind.rev4.5

and

And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.  2  And I saw as it were a  sea of  glass  mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, [and] over the number of his name, stand on the  sea of  glass , having the harps of God.  3  And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous [are] thy works, Lord God Almightyrev15.1

cp

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Amen CP. A sea of "glass" means one that is not tossed about by every wind of doctrine. It is calm because it has come into His presence. He calms the seas, does He not? What manner of man is this, they said.

When I first came to the Lord, I was reading the part in there about Him walking on the water, and when I got to the part about the wind, the Lord spoke to me and said, "Satan is nothing but a big bag of wind!"

I cracked up laughing, it was just like He was looking over my shoulder as I read, and made His own comment on the text. Many a thing has been gleaned from that one comment and that one passage of scripture. Blessings....

[Nathan]

In Solomons temple, the laver was called the sea as well . . .and when I see this passage . .that's what I think of as the laver was connected to washing and cleansing . .as is the "lake" of "fire" which I see as a sea, mingled with fire.

If baptism unto water = change of thinking . . .(mind)
then baptism unto spirit = change of heart . .(spirit)
baptism of fire .. .change of nature. . . .(body)

[claypot]

Card Im curious, what do you do with "No more Sea" then within that similitude?

Also Fire, it just strengthens a statement I made a while back.......Scriputure is a code. Needs deciphering. You know this I know. It is so good when Scripture is brought up to show when it is used for multiple meanings.

God is not the Author of confusion but some day I'm going to take Him up on that one I think!!! Abba will love it I think. Abba is likened to a divine fox and He couldn't have 'caused' more confusion amongst us people if He tried but I sincerely say all this with reverential respect for Him.

What about 'God is not the Author of confusion'. I'm going to take that one on in a minute I think. Gots to eat now! Can't live on Scripture alone....or can we?

cp

[Molly]

cp wrote: I could live for a million years trying to get rid of the mortality and corruption in me but I wouldn't be able to do it. Not to be disrespectful to our Lord but I see Jesus as kind of a sin sponge. He is revealed in us and absorbs all our sins and is squeezed out (crucified) into a lake of eternal forgiveness (Our God).

cp

Let me add that I put this very simply but I also see us as with Jesus during this whole process. We have absorbed sin, we get squeezed with Jesus. This is God making us into His image and we know Who is the image of God, don't we?

(Jesus) Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him: And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist. And He is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead....col1.15

cp

:thumbsup:

[Molly]

:cloud9: Amen CP. A sea of "glass" means one that is not tossed about by every wind of doctrine. It is calm because it has come into His presence. He calms the seas, does He not? What manner of man is this, they said.

When I first came to the Lord, I was reading the part in there about Him walking on the water, and when I got to the part about the wind, the Lord spoke to me and said, "Satan is nothing but a big bag of wind!"

I cracked up laughing, it was just like He was looking over my shoulder as I read, and made His own comment on the text. Many a thing has been gleaned from that one comment and that one passage of scripture. Blessings....

I have actually seen a 'sea of glass,' way offshore in my sailboat when there is not a breath of air.

It's a very beautiful sight--I wish I could describe it--totally smooth water, almost transparent (which is what the word glass means), reflecting unbelievably beautiful light because of it's vast size and smoothness, seeming to be spilling over the horizon, as though nothing can contain it--

This is totally different from a lake  experience because of its vastness and because the water fills up everything to the horizon on all sides...as far as the eye can see...

[rosered]

 

  wow , That was lovely Molly  your description , I could  picture this in my minds eye   :thumbsup:

  :HeartThrob:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I understand Fire, I know the "irked" till it fits into place, well, LOL. I have never shared this, but as you brought up sapphire stone, it brought it back to my memory. I was doing home health and I was used to bring an Italian war bride who was raised Catholic, to salvation. The night of the day she received Him, I was given a night vision, as I slept on the floor next to her bed (required of me).

I was stunned to see in the Spirit a most beautiful sight, and I still don't understand it, but here it is. I saw probably a thousand blue sapphires lit from within, about 3/4 of an inch in size, square ones, in like what I can only describe as a "crossword puzzle" shape, with the squares being sapphires, here and there. It was as if it was her spiritual "DNA" (blue being the color of the heavens) laid out as a foundation beneath her, was all I could think of. That's it. Blessings....

[Nathan]

Two things . .if I don't forget . . .
sea of crystal . . .it's the same as the water in the river flowing out from God's thrown . . .we're in it . .but it's transparent.  We're enveloped by the presence that natural eyes can't see, natural ears can't hear.
Kim . . . the passage you posted just nailed me.

For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall ***SAY*** unto this mountain """be thou removed """ and be thou CAST into THE SEA; and shall NOT DOUBT in his heart, but shall **BELIEVE** THAT **those things** which **HE SAITH** shall come to pass; he shall have """whatsover"" **HE SAITH**

This mountain that burned with fire . .that is the mountain law originated on.  And when I take 'this' mountain of law . . government of religion . .and I cast it into the see . .the crystal sea . .where the crystal river pours into . .the completed will of the Father.  When I cast my foundation of law into this sea . . .and NOT DOUBT . . .that's the seedling of faith.  Once my law/mountain is removed, the veil is removed from my mind and the invisible things become made known . .. revelation springs forth "after" I've cast my mountain of knowledge of sin into the crystal sea. . . .

HOOOOO RAHHHHHH. :angelharp: