Natural and Spiritual

[Molly]

John the Baptist, whom I will call the last Levite priest, is out in the wilderness baptizing at the river Jordan. He is preparing the way of the LORD by calling people to repentance [Prepare ye the way of the LORD Isa 40:3]

"Prepare" [..the way]
H6437
ôÌðä
pânâh
paw-naw'
A primitive root; to turn; by implication to face, that is, appear, look, etc.: - appear, at [even-] tide, behold, cast out, come on, X corner, dawning, empty, go away, lie, look, mark, pass away, prepare, regard, (have) respect (to), (re-) turn (aside, away, back, face, self), X right [early].



This is the same place where Joshua led his people across to the promised land. A spiritual divide is now about to be crossed and John is baptizing in preparation for the coming of the Christ. But, John himself is just the messenger [God's angel]; he will not cross over that divide himself, but, rather, prepares others to cross.



Matthew 11:11
Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.


We have seen two baptisms up to this point--the two baptisms of the Old Testament--

1)The dry baptism of Moses, where the people cross the Red Sea on dry ground after Moses raises his staff from the shore causing the waters to recede.  [set apart] [first circumcision]

2)The baptism of Joshua, where the people cross the Jordan river after the priests have stepped in the water up to their ankles causing the water to recede.  [set apart set apart] [second circumcision]



And, now the baptism of John, at that same Jordan river, which is a total submersion in water, signifying a total cleansing unto repentance. 

[I baptize you with water unto] "repentance"

From the root word:
G3340
μετανοέω
metanoeō
met-an-o-eh'-o
From G3326 and G3539; to think differently or afterwards, that is, reconsider (morally to feel compunction): - repent.




John's baptism is a cusp--the last baptism of the Old Testament by a Levite priest, and the first baptism of the New Testament.

John, eater of wild honey [new] and locusts [old], is handing over the baton of the priesthood from the Levites to Melchizedek.  This will move the priesthood from the natural to the spiritual--and the priestline inheritance from a bloodline father to son to a spiritual Father to Son.  Henceforth the baptism from set apart [holy] to set apart set apart [holy holy] will be a spiritual one.


Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:


John 1:36
And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!

[claypot]

Hi Tony,

This will really blow your mind.

I only see two men in the Bible, Adam and Christ. Everyone I know is or will be somewhere in the process of putting off the old and putting on the new. This is accomplished as Jesus Christ is revealed from Heaven. The destiny of us all is summed up in these 2 men.

God is making man in His image.

cp

CP, I lost my dear beloved puppy today. But you know what? what you wrote above is really nice! Thanks!

Tony

Hey Tony, believe it or not I did think to add that all creation (your puppy included) awaits God's finished masterpiece which is man in His image but I didn't want things to get too long. I did say the destiny of all is summed up in these 2 men.

Your puppy,IMO,in some mysterious way, has God's attention like no other puppy in creation, you can take that to the bank me thinks.

I sat watching my woodburner last night wondering why things can be so hard. I talked to this all pervading power we call God. Why is it so tough to live happily down here I asked. I knew what it would take to make me content at that moment but then I wondered, would it? Would what I had in mind for my life really make me happy, happy for an eternity? Probably not so I concluded that what I and all of us are going through (losing puppies and all) is for our long term happiness. I know you probably know this but just wanted to share a bit. Life is hard, so dang hard, but you gotta admit, it has it's moments!

cp

[claypot]

Jeff Claypot :icon_flower:

Well . . huh.  What dya know about that.  Doesn't like to see people quotin' Scriptures?  Hm.  Interesting

Yes Jeff is Claypot, I remember him from my forum when he was on a couple years ago. He has his preferences I appeared to have fustrated him and dont want to do that, I'm just trying to honor in him in that respect.

Come on, I'm getting bad publicity here. ha ha ha.

I love Scripture (and I don't use the word 'love' lightly). It's just that I think anyone whom God works in has their own way of speaking Scripture and to use other people's words (yes, even Bible translations) many times for me clouds what they are trying to say. For example, I get more out of some of Nathan's writings and my reading of Scripture than I do out of just Nathan quoting Scripture. Hope this makes sense.

Also when I read many of the writings on this forum I see Scripture very clearly in the persons own words. It's like people can put life into my Bible by sharing from their own uniqueness and heart.

Now, Kim who the he....heck are you? You have not frustrated me, I think you are just a bit beyond me in what you are trying to communicate sometimes. It's my bad for being too lazy to focus more on your words but things move fast here and I try to keep up.

Molly, I totally respect you but I want to say that your way of communicating and Kims are very close and I have been helped by them as I know others have too. How can a person not be helped by the Word of God displayed by a child of God?

Hope this clears up a few things.

cp

[Nathan]

Jeff Claypot :icon_flower:

Well . . huh.  What dya know about that.  Doesn't like to see people quotin' Scriptures?  Hm.  Interesting

Yes Jeff is Claypot, I remember him from my forum when he was on a couple years ago. He has his preferences I appeared to have fustrated him and dont want to do that, I'm just trying to honor in him in that respect.

Come on, I'm getting bad publicity here. ha ha ha.

I love Scripture (and I don't use the word 'love' lightly). It's just that I think anyone whom God works in has their own way of speaking Scripture and to use other people's words (yes, even Bible translations) many times for me clouds what they are trying to say. For example, I get more out of some of Nathan's writings and my reading of Scripture than I do out of just Nathan quoting Scripture. Hope this makes sense.

Also when I read many of the writings on this forum I see Scripture very clearly in the persons own words. It's like people can put life into my Bible by sharing from their own uniqueness and heart.

Now, Kim who the he....heck are you? You have not frustrated me, I think you are just a bit beyond me in what you are trying to communicate sometimes. It's my bad for being too lazy to focus more on your words but things move fast here and I try to keep up.

Molly, I totally respect you but I want to say that your way of communicating and Kims are very close and I have been helped by them as I know others have too. How can a person not be helped by the Word of God displayed by a child of God?

Hope this clears up a few things.

cp

To be honest bud, I guess I lean that way as well . . . in the sense that I do find myself struggling sometimes with those that depend wholly on what a passage states . .and I have stated somewhere . . .about the idea that things that were written were written to spiritual infants for the most part . .for me, I'd exclude Hebrews but even in there, the author touches on the fact that his readers "should" be teaching others by now and yet they still are craving milk yet themselves.  So yeah, I see your point.

I think sometimes I may even come across to others with the thinking that Scripture isn't that important.  But for me, that's the foundation.  It's just when you build a house, you don't live in the foundation, you live in the house.  But without a foundation, you have no house.  The Scripture is a great extension of the spirit to all of us . . when it's rightly divided (by the spirit, not by my head).  Cardinal had the best explanation for how that works . .and for the life of me, I can't remember how it went.

But it went along the lines of "in the beginning, the Word illuminated the Spirit to me.  Now, the Spirit illuminates the Word . . ."  That's not doing justice to how she put it, but that's the general idea.  There's always a balance to everything.  And, the Word is "in" me so things come to me that I don't know if, or where they are at in Scripture, and as time goes on, the passage pops up that affirms what I saw but couldn't quote.  Most people don't like getting quoted at all the time either.  But when you share things on a personal level, they seem to be received on a much broader scale.  There will always be those that get frustrated that you don't quote line by line to back up what you see . . .but I'm just not one of them.

I like the mix here.  Some quote, some give definitions, some give their impression, and we all benefit.  It's all good.

[claypot]

Nathan, how you do it is beyond me but you spoke to me again and I'm not just bragging on you. I imagine you got some 'nasty' in you too but I wanted to say you illuminated something in your last words that I don't think I would have gotten from Scripture.......... You wrote.........

But it went along the lines of "in the beginning, the Word illuminated the Spirit to me.  Now, the Spirit illuminates the Word . . ."  That's not doing justice to how she put it.....

First of all, that quote is something I'm going to Scripture with and check out because I hear a strong ring of good stuff there but the real revelation is you called Card, who I greatly admire, a she! I had no idea! lol I am so dense sometimes!!!!

cp

[Nathan]

Oh, I'm sure there's some nasty in me somewhere, but I'm training my head to be blind to it . . .I figure if God is blind to sin, due to the blood of the Lamb in me, then it only stands to reason, I shouldn't acknowledge the nasty either.  When it surfaces . . .I'll see that as purpose and not failure.  Like everything else that gets purged, the surfacing of the dredge simply means now, it can be removed.  But that's God's department to do the removal.  Mine is to let him.

As for Cardinal . . she's quite the song bird and I so enjoy her melodies.

[Nathan]

Perhaps that's why the spirit "hovered" over the face of the deep. I know it says "moved" but the word actually means to hover, at any rate, for me, I see that everything needs balance.  Gotta have the Word there in order to build on.  Can't just take someone's word for it . .and as a matter of fact, there are many times that someone's comments sends me to the Scripture to check out either references or context. 

I'd say Claypot . . .share it out as it comes to you.  If you don't quote Scriptures, that's just fine . . .many times people misinterpret them anyway.  Share what the Spirit is revealing and it will "bring out" life within the Scriptures which will lead us in them as well.  I don't quote Scriptures about 80% of the time either.  I have Molly for that :laughing7:

And Kim, share with us those things within you in what ever form they come in.  If quoting Scripture is needed to present the topic and message, by all means, quote away.  Often times that leads also into a comparison of different Bible versions which sheds even more light.  And when you lay it out there "with" the text, for me, it ignites other things combined from what you say with what you quote and it helps me see like you see . . .which is what I've been wanting ever since you came back . . .give me both barrels girl!!!  Hold nothing back! :Shoot:

[claypot]

Okey dokey Nat  :grin:

Thanks bro, can you help me understand in the context of scripture Adam = living Soul and Woman (His soul) and she was decieved (the woman was in transgression) how all in Adam die and not all in Eve/ his soul (die) but she (his soul) becomes the mother of all the living? Im lost on that. Why doesnt Paul say it that way? Why does Paul say comparitively use Eve as a figure of the Church/ Woman (made up of male and female) and speaks to them corporately (as a whole persons with body soul and spirits) being decieved in the same way (through the serpents beguiling) corrupted from the simplicity in Christ (Last Adam)

Thats sorta my question bro, I try to compare in various places concerning the picture but Im lost on how others are showing it.

Hi Fire. I agree with you that we are all unique and it would be very boring to have it any other way.

I'm kind of lost on some of your questions but let me try.

I don't see Scripture talking about the spirit as Eve's spirit or the soul as Adam's soul. I see Adam as representing spirit and Eve as representing soul. I do see people as spirits with a soul and in a flesh body and this is why I think people are summed up in Adam. The spirit is the overall make up of us individual people.

When Eve is spoken of apart from the spirit like when Paul says....

And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the  transgression .1tim2.14

then I think this is God's way of communicating to us how we function apart from Him, Spirit.

I'll stop here to see if we are tracking.

By the way, Fire, forgive my denseness but what it is OGR?

cp

[Nathan]

Actually, I believe it's connected with the fact that nothing happened when Eve ate of the fruit.  It wasn't until Adam ate.  The sin isn't the thought of the mind, it's the submission "of" the spirit.  Spirit is not to submit to the mind, but take authority over.  Or, even better, exercise the authority given to it over the mind.  As strong as the mind is, it wasn't given the authority to direct the spirit, but when Adam submitted, he reversed the original order.

Which incidently, the ark of Noah (rest) that came to  . . . rest .  .on mount Ararat???  Ararat actually means . .the curse is reversed.  The ark, being a picture of Christ and the redemptive work . . the ark had pitch applied within and without . . .pitch actually means "atonement" . .great picture.

Also, Eve was still "in" Adam when God instructed him not to eat of the tree.  Eve was decieved, Adam was in submission.  Eve wouldn't be blamed because she wasn't the one in authority.  God doesn't blame my mind because it's not in authority.  Hell isn't for emotional or physcial cleansing . .it's for spiritual . .because that's where my authority lies . .in the spirit.

We who are born, are all born in the first Adam . .spiritually dead.  But those who are born in the Last Adam are resurrected . .spiritually alive.  Once the spirit is affected, everything that it has authority over is also affected.  Thus, when Adam reversed the order, all earth was affected because the earth was "under" Adam's authority.

Am I helping???

[chuckt]

hey all

didnt eve represent all the living? and since adam didnt cover her sin, or be her savour all died because of him?

adam verses Christ?

adam could have been savour of ALL mankind but it wasnt the plan stan.

did i word that right?

chuckt

[chuckt]

hey all

didnt eve represent all the living? and since adam didnt cover her sin, or be her savour all died because of him?

adam verses Christ?

adam could have been savour of ALL mankind but it wasnt the plan stan.

did i word that right?

chuckt

Could be Chuck but before He turned her in Job speaks of Adam hiding his own trangressions, so even if she was in the transgression he covered his own as well so I dont know how that would work perfectly. Yet Christ was made sin and He took upon himself ours that we might be the righteousness of God in Him and that would work as a comparison between the two Adams as it relates to us as a whole.

yes i was just thinking is ""inadam"" because of something he did or didnt do? did death come to all men because of something he did or didnt do?

it says sin entered because of one man, but does it say because he ""sinned"" ??

inChrist is because of what Christ DID

maybe inadam is because of what he didnt do  :mshock:

chuckt

[chuckt]

Yeah he listened to His wife  :grin: Christ was "obedient unto" death to the Father and Adam was "disobedient unto" death  :grin:

Polar opposites in that regard  :grin:

true, i just remembered this:

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 

so im off in that reguard, but interesting none the less.

everytime i think i got it all figured out im wrong  :winkgrin:

peace
chuckt

[claypot]

Hi Fire, you wrote....

Functioning apart from first Adam would be the same as fuctioning apart from God who is Spirit? Thats what I dont understand, the first Adam was a living SOUL how is it that He becomes her Spirit guide? The soul that sins shall die and if Adam (a living soul) didnt transgress but she did, why are all dead in Adam rather then Eve (who was in transgression)? She is named the mother of the living.

Chuck you wrote....

didnt eve represent all the living? and since adam didnt cover her sin, or be her savour all died because of him?

My comments:

I am a person. I see I have flesh, a power source I call spirit, I have a mind I associate with soul. If I were a master story teller I might very well call one Adam, the other Eve and the other a carnal thing or whatever.

Adam doesn't become anyone's spiritual guide. One is this, one is that. My spirit IMO needs to be in control for me to operate properly, when it doesn't all hell breaks loose.

I have 11 kids and when my wife and I are not in control, all hell breaks loose.

I think I commented on the other things in your latest comments, Fire, in my last post but maybe not.

cp

[Paul Hazelwood]

I have 11 kids and when my wife and I are not in control, all hell breaks loose.

Here is how i see what your talking about, not that I disagree, just my perception.

Typically we can hear to let God have control,  thats easier said than done of course.  There are some that may believe that no matter how things appear, God is in control.

It is not to say that God is seeing something we do and going "Oh crap, better get over there and handle that"   It is to say that we can often see that what we thought was out of control taught us why it is a good thing God is in control.

My sister has 7 kids and when they were younger to the untrained eye if you went over to her house you would think Hell indeed broke loose.  The problem is that there was control there. 7 kids and their mannerisms and personalities all clashing but at the end of the day, things worked out and if you spent enough time there you could see the kids liberty top be themselves while seeing that the end goal was to keep from being on the chopping block with mom and dad.   Not out of fear, but out of an understanding that when you pull back the mannerisms and personalities, they all really love mom and dad and want to please them.


All the while,  Mom and Dad were not there breathing down their necks directly controlling and manipulating each move of the kids., they didn't need to be.  But yes, once in a while, they needed too step in and take direct action.

[rosered]

I have 11 kids and when my wife and I are not in control, all hell breaks loose.

Here is how i see what your talking about, not that I disagree, just my perception.

Typically we can hear to let God have control,  thats easier said than done of course.  There are some that may believe that no matter how things appear, God is in control.

It is not to say that God is seeing something we do and going "Oh crap, better get over there and handle that"   It is to say that we can often see that what we thought was out of control taught us why it is a good thing God is in control.

My sister has 7 kids and when they were younger to the untrained eye if you went over to her house you would think Hell indeed broke loose.  The problem is that there was control there. 7 kids and their mannerisms and personalities all clashing but at the end of the day, things worked out and if you spent enough time there you could see the kids liberty top be themselves while seeing that the end goal was to keep from being on the chopping block with mom and dad.   Not out of fear, but out of an understanding that when you pull back the mannerisms and personalities, they all really love mom and dad and want to please them.


All the while,  Mom and Dad were not there breathing down their necks directly controlling and manipulating each move of the kids., they didn't need to be.  But yes, once in a while, they needed too step in and take direct action.

wow that was great Paul !  :HeartThrob:
  and the mannerisms  and personalites are what make us different 
  do you think that is what is  called the soul part ? just wondering
  the soul seems to  describe  the seat of emotions  and appetite 
  because soul and spirit  seem to be  very similar in some ways
  when defining them

    I have just been reading here on this thread for awhile
  but liked  your analogy of how the Lord deals with us  out of chaos
  as '' at times '' possible  unruly children  to parents

  God bless ... :HeartThrob: Rose

[claypot]

Im still not understanding how that pertains, are you seeing first Adam was a living Spirit (Male) verses a living soul and His wife as his mind or soul maybe?

I think Adam is the author of Genesis' way of describing a persons spirit or life source. Eve is the authors way of describing a persons soul or mind or mental capabilities.

Again, I am a person. Talk of spirit and soul help me only in so far as it can help me get a handle on life today, right now. I get excited over how Scripture comes together here and there too and when it shows how awesome God is but to tell you the truth if it doesn't help me see me, you and everyone else in our everyday living experience then it is just good topic for discussions.

So Fire, I am saying people have spirits and souls. They have life and minds. Period. Adam and Eve represent these realites. They both were made corruptable and mortal as the story of Adam and Eve show. They both die and get reborn and are called Jesus Christ. This is saying to me I am conceived corruptable and mortal and I will become dead to this and rise again to incorruption and immortality.

Now in practical life this is helping me. I know I will struggle all my days with one thing or another because I am in transition. I believe when my life and yours are irreversably led by the Spirit and not by the soul we will be saved. When peace and contentment are with me forever then I will be saved. I do not have peace and contentment fully now. Things are still out of adjustment. Adam and Eve are not in perfect alignment in me yet. I believe, in Christ, they are in perfect alignment and I do see myself as in Christ so on that plane I do see myself saved.

This is not a man and woman thing. It is a people thing, all people. Adam and Eve are each person.

cp

 

[Molly]

The way I see it, which is pretty much literal--

Adam was given the breath of God, Eve was not.  She is like Adam's flesh clone, taken out of his rib.

But, she doesn't have the Holy Spirit, so she is deceived by satan.  

I'm thinking more and more that man does not have his own spirit, other than the breath, which all living animals have.  All have a soul (nephesh), but a 'living' soul is a quickened soul.  Adam was a quickened soul, but Jesus is a quickening Spirit--able to quicken others.  (Jesus was the fulness of the godhead bodily).

So Adam, who is called god-Man, is standing there in the midst of the garden watching satan deceive Eve and there's nothing he can do about it because he is not able to quicken her to see the error of her ways.  So he does the next best thing--he sacrifices himself for her (a figure of the one to come).

Why do I say that?  The garden is set up like the temple.  Outside the garden (where Adam is formed of clay) is the outer court, inside the garden is the holy place where everything can be eaten, and the two trees are in the midst of the garden-- the holy of holies.  Only the high priest can go into the most holy place, and then not without blood.  The only blood Adam, the first high priest, had was his own, which at the point that Eve sinned (she was the one deceived) was pure, innocent, blameless because he was not deceived.

So we have this drama set up at the beginning.  And, with Adam and Eve kicked out of the garden, which otherwise would not have happened, there is now the possibility of saving many souls alive.

Jesus calls himself son of Adam.  He has come as the kinsman redeemer, to redeem his kinfolk, by paying off their debt (the wages of sin is death).

[Nathan]

Wow, both of you, Molly and Claypot . . . very revelational of you.

[chuckt]

The way I see it, which is pretty much literal--

Adam was given the breath of God, Eve was not.  She is like Adam's flesh clone, taken out of his rib.

But, she doesn't have the Holy Spirit, so she is deceived by satan.  

I'm thinking more and more that man does not have his own spirit, other than the breath, which all living animals have.  All have a soul (nephesh), but a 'living' soul is a quickened soul.  Adam was a quickened soul, but Jesus is a quickening Spirit--able to quicken others.  (Jesus was the fulness of the godhead bodily).

So Adam, who is called god-Man, is standing there in the midst of the garden watching satan deceive Eve and there's nothing he can do about it because he is not able to quicken her to see the error of her ways.  So he does the next best thing--he sacrifices himself for her (a figure of the one to come).

Why do I say that?  The garden is set up like the temple.  Outside the garden (where Adam is formed of clay) is the outer court, inside the garden is the holy place where everything can be eaten, and the two trees are in the midst of the garden-- the holy of holies.  Only the high priest can go into the most holy place, and then not without blood.  The only blood Adam, the first high priest, had was his own, which at the point that Eve sinned (she was the one deceived) was pure, innocent, blameless because he was not deceived.

So we have this drama set up at the beginning.  And, with Adam and Eve kicked out of the garden, which otherwise would not have happened, there is now the possibility of saving many souls alive.

Jesus calls himself son of Adam.  He has come as the kinsman redeemer, to redeem his kinfolk, by paying off their debt (the wages of sin is death).

ok this is excellent and need much consideration, something is missing though, cant put my fingure on it.........THANKS!

[Molly]

ok this is excellent and need much consideration, something is missing though, cant put my fingure on it.........THANKS!

Hey, I'm a woman.  I'm not going to tell you everything I know.  :laughing7:

[Tony N]

I realize this is going off topic. After this maybe we can get back on topic?

As most of you know my dear little puppy died (was put to sleep) on my birthday yesterday.
I prayed and prayed to our Father as to why this had to happen.
Now, it is not like I hear voices speaking or anything like that but in a way the Scriptures or Word does speak to me. As I walked around the neighborhood it was as if God was telling me, in my deepest sadness, that it is He Who gives to all, life and breath and all, and it is He Who gives and Who takes away. It was like He was saying to me that I am Lord of heaven and earth and it was I who strengthened your heart in order to have the vet put her to death. Otherwise you would not due to your love for the pup. But she had to die. And in spite of you thinking this was the worst birthday you ever experienced, it is actually the one birthday which you have recieved the greatest gift; the gift of understanding. For you have to learn an invaluable lesson and the only way I could teach that lesson to you was through the death of your beloved pup. I am God. I am the Father Who is Lord of heaven and earth.

And so my birthday brightened up a little as a greater understanding emerged.

Thank you God and Father.

Tony

Hi Tony,

This will really blow your mind.

I only see two men in the Bible, Adam and Christ. Everyone I know is or will be somewhere in the process of putting off the old and putting on the new. This is accomplished as Jesus Christ is revealed from Heaven. The destiny of us all is summed up in these 2 men.

God is making man in His image.

cp

CP, I lost my dear beloved puppy today. But you know what? what you wrote above is really nice! Thanks!

Tony

Hey Tony, believe it or not I did think to add that all creation (your puppy included) awaits God's finished masterpiece which is man in His image but I didn't want things to get too long. I did say the destiny of all is summed up in these 2 men.

Your puppy,IMO,in some mysterious way, has God's attention like no other puppy in creation, you can take that to the bank me thinks.

I sat watching my woodburner last night wondering why things can be so hard. I talked to this all pervading power we call God. Why is it so tough to live happily down here I asked. I knew what it would take to make me content at that moment but then I wondered, would it? Would what I had in mind for my life really make me happy, happy for an eternity? Probably not so I concluded that what I and all of us are going through (losing puppies and all) is for our long term happiness. I know you probably know this but just wanted to share a bit. Life is hard, so dang hard, but you gotta admit, it has it's moments!

cp

[Taffy]

Hey Tony  :icon_flower:


That was sure touching Bro,it really was... Thanks for sharing :HeartThrob:

[Nathan]

Clay

I think Adam is the author of Genesis' way of describing a persons spirit or life source. Eve is the authors way of describing a persons soul or mind or mental capabilities.

Fireinfolding

Thats what I dont understand, Adam is shown as the living Soul and Christ the life quickening Spirit. Eve is related to as the Church and Christ as the last Adam. So I cant understand spliting them as if we are in first Adams Soul and Eve is first Adams mental capacity when contrary to that Eve is shown as the Church (made up of both male and female) each one having a body soul and spirit to which HIS Spirit bears witness to OURS. Him calling THEM Adam in Chapter 5 of Genesis I see as Christ and the church, not first Adam and Eve "in me" but HIM (as the last Adam ) joining US the Woman together IN HIMSELF (last Adam) in THE DAY they were created. Its when he sends his Spirit THEY are created. Theres THREE He forms he made and he created and the Spirit is conected with the created part shown in Genesis giving the recap on the 6 day where he shows it BEFORE then shows us AGAIN in Genesis 5. I see this showing Christ.

Clay

Again, I am a person. Talk of spirit and soul help me only in so far as it can help me get a handle on life today, right now. I get excited over how Scripture comes together here and there too and when it shows how awesome God is but to tell you the truth if it doesn't help me see me, you and everyone else in our everyday living experience then it is just good topic for discussions.

Fireinfolding

Well I cant really tell the difference between my own soul and my spirit inwardly save the difference I can tell in regards to HIS Spirit verses my other two. But I cant understand how Adam (who is a living soul) is joined to Eve (who is often defined here as a soul as well) And how to relate that those two souls (one of the first man) needing to be alligned with my eve (soul) or mental capacity or how "that pertains to" the entirely different man Jesus Christ (to whom WE as Eve are joined to = ONE husband) not two.

My faith is built up seeing Christ not really myself and I dont see how Genesis can be of "practical" assistance in my own life save that which Paul already shared concerning it. I am blessed in seeing more of the Lord of which the volume of the book speaks. I was trying to understand how some of the things described previously pertained to Him according to the scriptures.

Clay

So Fire, I am saying people have spirits and souls. They have life and minds. Period. Adam and Eve represent these realites. They both were made corruptable and mortal as the story of Adam and Eve show. They both die and get reborn and are called Jesus Christ. This is saying to me I am conceived corruptable and mortal and I will become dead to this and rise again to incorruption and immortality.

Fireinfolding

I have no disagreement with us having our own soul and spirit or that we have mortality, what I was trying to understand is expressed in my other post, not mortal application but the spiritual one. Thats why I couldnt see how it pertained

Okay Kim . . . I think I can finally see what it is you're having an issue with.  I bowed out of this to see where the others were taking it to see if I could get a handle on what it was you were saying.  But it wasn't until this post here that it finally dawned on me.  So, let me try this and see if it helps.

We've talked about dimensions and for me, there's primarily three.  My reason for trying to keep it at three is . . .if I don't it can really get complicated.  2, because it's what I feel has been shown to me.  Not offended if others see more or less, but for me, I see three. And C, ( :laughing7:) the tabernacle is my plumbline. 

Okay, so again, the first dimension is the natural . . outer court . .natural light.  Adam and Eve as two people . .the story . . 1st dimension.  No biggie.

The second dimension . . .the inner court . . cultivated (I call it) light.  It requires the activity of the priests to keep fires burning, bread fresh, wine full, insense smelling . .all that is ministry of the CHURCH . .so when you look at things "corporately" you are looking at the second dimension.  Which is what it appears that you are doing with the Adam and Eve thing . and its a great fit. 

But what cp and I have shared is the next dimension, the "inner" perspective where it's not dealing with "men" as in the corporate picture, but "man" as in the internal picture.  Everyone is right in this, there is a corporate picture and there is a spiritual or maybe it's clearer to use "inner" picture because both the corporate and inner are spiritual.

Am I getting close?

[Nathan]

Hey Tony, Sorry if my last post seemed cold . .I didn't read all the way through before posting that.  I had a thought and put it out there before reading any further. 

Happy Birthday bro . . .seems God has already given you his gift, eh?

[jabcat]

"For you have to learn an invaluable lesson and the only way I could teach that lesson to you was through the death of your beloved pup. I am God. I am the Father Who is Lord of heaven and earth."

Wow.  That's how God showed me UR...He brought me to a place of literally wanting to die...being broken before Him, losing something I held dear...but that I really needed to lose, in more ways than one...including His revelation to me.

He truly is Lord of heaven and earth, and I have to constantly humble myself before Him...otherwise I have a sinful, rebellious attitude...the beast within me wanting to sit on the throne  :thumbdown:.

God's blessing, Tony.