Natural and Spiritual

[claypot]

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

The way this looks to me, the way it gives me meaning and purpose for my life and life in general right now is this.....

God is telling us how we are made. I think we were made blind in so many ways, in part. The only reason we would sin is if we were partly or wholly blind.

The divine in us (Israel) is blinded until our carnal nature is dealt with, then the divine takes over completely and we are saved. A grand process. Jesus shall shine forth out of Zion (out of our hearts) and all that is not of God shall be eliminated.

I do see a literal physical fullfillment of this happening too but the spiritual application seems much more clear to me. Jesus said His words were spirit. It is the spirit that gives life; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not.jn6.63

Our Father God is Spirit, our Holy Guide is Spirit and even though we have known Christ according to the flesh we are encouraged to know Him so no more. Though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we Him no more. 2cor5.16

The spiritual application of Scripture seems the one God wants us to see. It is His language from His domain.

cp

[claypot]

I think this is a quote from Tony......

So it is more than likely that people have misunderstood what "this generation" meant because obviously Peter and Paul both state when Christ will come back. He did not come back yet to that generation either allegorically or literally.

Me thinks 'this generation' as Jesus used it refers to the time when blindness rules. The generation of the blind so to speak. The next generation is the incorruptable one, the immortal one of which was, is and is to come. The generation of light has come in Jesus Christ and will be completely fullfilled when the generation of 'Adam' is consumated.

cp

[Tony N]

What if he truly did come back, but, as was the case with his coming the first time in the flesh, most did not discern it because of what they were expecting?

Ron

He didn't. If He did then that meant that the complement of the nations came about, all Israel was saved, the eras of refreshing already came to Israel, the times of restoration of all which God speaks through the mouth of His holy prophets who are from the eon would have already come almost 2000 years ago and there would be no administration of the secret given to Paul.
BTW it is hard to miss a world-wide earthquake in which all the cities of the nations fall which comes prior to the Lord's return.

Please, hyper-spiritualists, no "But the earthquake happened in our flesh and the cities fell in our flesh."

[claypot]

Tony, what is a hyper spiritualist? Does Jesus qualify?

cp

[Zeek]

What if he truly did come back, but, as was the case with his coming the first time in the flesh, most did not discern it because of what they were expecting?

Ron

He didn't. If He did then that meant that the complement of the nations came about, all Israel was saved, the eras of refreshing already came to Israel, the times of restoration of all which God speaks through the mouth of His holy prophets who are from the eon would have already come almost 2000 years ago and there would be no administration of the secret given to Paul.
BTW it is hard to miss a world-wide earthquake in which all the cities of the nations fall which comes prior to the Lord's return.

Please, hyper-spiritualists, no "But the earthquake happened in our flesh and the cities fell in our flesh."

Mat 24:14  And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Col 1:5  For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

Col 1:6  Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:


Col 1:23  If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Mat 25:13  Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

1Jn 2:17  And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.


1Jn 2:18  Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour.

Mat 24:5  For many shall come in my name, saying, I am the Christ; and shall lead many astray.


1Jn 2:8  Again, a new commandment write I unto you, which thing is true in him and in you; because the darkness is passing away, and the true light already shineth.

Heb 8:13  In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Rom 13:11  And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Mat 24:13  But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mat 24:14  And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

[claypot]

Tony, you wrote..... "But the earthquake happened in our flesh and the cities fell in our flesh."

I don't know about you but I have had many upheavals in my life that could be likened to an earthquake. Cities I see as whole trains of thought or belief packages within my thought life, some have fallen away and some are rock steady. I also believe in literal physical earthquakes that fell literal physical cities too.

cp

[Tony N]

Tony, what is a hyper spiritualist? Does Jesus qualify?

cp

Hmmm, that's a good question.

[Tony N]

What if he truly did come back, but, as was the case with his coming the first time in the flesh, most did not discern it because of what they were expecting?

Ron

He didn't. If He did then that meant that the complement of the nations came about, all Israel was saved, the eras of refreshing already came to Israel, the times of restoration of all which God speaks through the mouth of His holy prophets who are from the eon would have already come almost 2000 years ago and there would be no administration of the secret given to Paul.
BTW it is hard to miss a world-wide earthquake in which all the cities of the nations fall which comes prior to the Lord's return.

Please, hyper-spiritualists, no "But the earthquake happened in our flesh and the cities fell in our flesh."

Mat 24:14  And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Col 1:5  For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

Col 1:6  Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:


Col 1:23  If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Mat 25:13  Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

1Jn 2:17  And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.


1Jn 2:18  Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour.

Mat 24:5  For many shall come in my name, saying, I am the Christ; and shall lead many astray.


1Jn 2:8  Again, a new commandment write I unto you, which thing is true in him and in you; because the darkness is passing away, and the true light already shineth.

Heb 8:13  In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Rom 13:11  And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Mat 24:13  But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mat 24:14  And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Dear Zeek, what gospel is Matthew concerned with? The gospel of the kingdom, that's what gospel. That is not the gospel Paul brought to the nations.

With us of the nations under Paul's evangel, we don't have to endure to the end as Matthew 24:13 states for Paul says "1Th 5:10 Who died for our sakes, that, whether we may be watching or drowsing, we should be living at the same time together with Him."

So there are different evangels: the evangel of the circumcision and the evangel of the Uncircumcision (Galatians 2).

[Tony N]

Tony, you wrote..... "But the earthquake happened in our flesh and the cities fell in our flesh."

I don't know about you but I have had many upheavals in my life that could be likened to an earthquake. Cities I see as whole trains of thought or belief packages within my thought life, some have fallen away and some are rock steady. I also believe in literal physical earthquakes that fell literal physical cities too.

cp

The bible states that the earthquake that is to come prior to Christ coming is like none that ever came upon the earth.
If your body is a city with a skyscraper in it does the light ever come on on the top floor?  :laughing7: Oh, my bad.

[Zeek]

What if he truly did come back, but, as was the case with his coming the first time in the flesh, most did not discern it because of what they were expecting?

Ron

BTW it is hard to miss a world-wide earthquake in which all the cities of the nations fall which comes prior to the Lord's return.

Isaiah 13:6 (NKJV) Wail, for the day of the LORD is at hand! It will come as destruction from the Almighty.

Isaiah 13:9-13 (NKJV) Behold, the day of the LORD comes, Cruel, with both wrath and fierce anger, To lay the land desolate; And He will destroy its sinners from it.

10 For the stars of heaven and their constellations Will not give their light; The sun will be darkened in its going forth, And the moon will not cause its light to shine.

11 "I will punish the world for its evil, And the wicked for their iniquity; I will halt the arrogance of the proud, And will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

12 I will make a mortal more rare than fine gold, A man more than the golden wedge of Ophir.

13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, And the earth will move out of her place, In the wrath of the LORD of hosts And in the day of His fierce anger.

Isaiah 13:17 (NKJV) "Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, Who will not regard silver; And as for gold, they will not delight in it.

These passages of scripture describe a historical event that took place in 539 BC. When the Medes destroyed Babylon, the Babylonian world came to an end.

This is the way the Bible discusses the fall of a nation.

The fall of Edom:

Isaiah 34:3-5 (NKJV) Also their slain shall be thrown out; Their stench shall rise from their corpses, And the mountains shall be melted with their blood.

4 All the host of heaven shall be dissolved, And the heavens shall be rolled up like a scroll; All their host shall fall down As the leaf falls from the vine, And as fruit falling from a fig tree.

5 "For My sword shall be bathed in heaven; Indeed it shall come down on Edom, And on the people of My curse, for judgment.

Biblical language to describe the fall of a nation.

Nahum 1 (NKJV) The burden against Nineveh. The book of the vision of Nahum the Elkocrape.

2 God is jealous, and the LORD avenges; The LORD avenges and is furious. The LORD will take vengeance on His adversaries, And He reserves wrath for His enemies;

3 The LORD is slow to anger and great in power, And will not at all acquit the wicked. The LORD has His way In the whirlwind and in the storm, And the clouds are the dust of His feet.

4 He rebukes the sea and makes it dry, And dries up all the rivers. Bashan and Carmel wither, And the flower of Lebanon wilts. 5 The mountains quake before Him, The hills melt, And the earth heaves at His presence, Yes, the world and all who dwell in it.

The subject of this judgement is Nineveh, not the physical world. This is the way God describes the fall of a nation.  

Ezekiel speaks in the same manner of Egypt:

Ezekiel 32:7-8 (NKJV) When I put out your light, I will cover the heavens, and make its stars dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, And the moon shall not give her light.

8 All the bright lights of the heavens I will make dark over you, And bring darkness upon your land,' Says the Lord GOD.

The prophet Daniel speaks, in the same manner, of the slaughter of the Jews by the little horn, the power of the Romans.

Daniel 8:10 (NKJV) And it grew up to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the ground, and trampled them.

Revelation 6:13-17 (NKJV) And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind.

14 Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place.

15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains,

16 and said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!

17 "For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"

[Zeek]

What if he truly did come back, but, as was the case with his coming the first time in the flesh, most did not discern it because of what they were expecting?

Ron

He didn't. If He did then that meant that the complement of the nations came about, all Israel was saved, the eras of refreshing already came to Israel, the times of restoration of all which God speaks through the mouth of His holy prophets who are from the eon would have already come almost 2000 years ago and there would be no administration of the secret given to Paul.
BTW it is hard to miss a world-wide earthquake in which all the cities of the nations fall which comes prior to the Lord's return.

Please, hyper-spiritualists, no "But the earthquake happened in our flesh and the cities fell in our flesh."

Mat 24:14  And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Col 1:5  For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

Col 1:6  Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:


Col 1:23  If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Mat 25:13  Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

1Jn 2:17  And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.


1Jn 2:18  Little children, it is the last hour: and as ye heard that antichrist cometh, even now have there arisen many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last hour.

Mat 24:5  For many shall come in my name, saying, I am the Christ; and shall lead many astray.


1Jn 2:8  Again, a new commandment write I unto you, which thing is true in him and in you; because the darkness is passing away, and the true light already shineth.

Heb 8:13  In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Rom 13:11  And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Mat 24:13  But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mat 24:14  And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Dear Zeek, what gospel is Matthew concerned with? The gospel of the kingdom, that's what gospel. That is not the gospel Paul brought to the nations.

With us of the nations under Paul's evangel, we don't have to endure to the end as Matthew 24:13 states for Paul says "1Th 5:10 Who died for our sakes, that, whether we may be watching or drowsing, we should be living at the same time together with Him."

So there are different evangels: the evangel of the circumcision and the evangel of the Uncircumcision (Galatians 2).

I disagree

[Taffy]

Please, hyper-spiritualists, no "But the earthquake happened in our flesh and the cities fell in our flesh."

Mat 5:14 You are the light of the world--""""like a city on a mountain, glowing in the night for all to see.""""

Always seemed to me that ONE city had to FALL before its restored.

Old Jerusalem Then New Jerusalem , the MOTHER of us ALL.

We are no longer Flesh, we are Now Spirit.

OLD man Perishes New man Lives.

WE are Now not of the Night , BUT CHILDREN OF THE """DAY"""""

The Old covenant has Faded Lik the Glory which once shined on Moses Face , NOW the GLORY of the NEW.

No longer in Bondage But FREE in HIM

Once ASLEEP but now Awake.

No longer In Darkness But IN LIGHT.

Not hyper spiritual at all Tony , very scriptural in fact .

personally  Tony  I thought Cards Post in the Greek thread summed up the Christian Mystic very well.

I wonder what Paul may have thought :icon_flower:

[claypot]

Hey Tony, I'm seeing something in your words that don't seem to jive with the spirit of Christ but I could be wrong, you seem pretty sure of yourself.

You wrote.... The bible states that the earthquake that is to come prior to Christ coming is like none that ever came upon the earth.
If your body is a city with a skyscraper in it does the light ever come on on the top floor?   Oh, my bad.

My salvation in like nothing that ever happened to me either so it is a good similarity you put forth.

It is your bad Tony and you are a big man to own up to it but if forgiveness is required be assured that I forgive you. I have seen the likes of your attitute in me too so I understand.

[Zeek]

Please, hyper-spiritualists, no "But the earthquake happened in our flesh and the cities fell in our flesh."

Mat 5:14 You are the light of the world--""""like a city on a mountain, glowing in the night for all to see.""""

cool verse T.  me likes.

[Taffy]

What if he truly did come back, but, as was the case with his coming the first time in the flesh, most did not discern it because of what they were expecting?

Ron

BTW it is hard to miss a world-wide earthquake in which all the cities of the nations fall which comes prior to the Lord's return.

Isaiah 13:6 (NKJV) Wail, for the day of the LORD is at hand! It will come as destruction from the Almighty.

Isaiah 13:9-13 (NKJV) Behold, the day of the LORD comes, Cruel, with both wrath and fierce anger, To lay the land desolate; And He will destroy its sinners from it.

10 For the stars of heaven and their constellations Will not give their light; The sun will be darkened in its going forth, And the moon will not cause its light to shine.

11 "I will punish the world for its evil, And the wicked for their iniquity; I will halt the arrogance of the proud, And will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.

12 I will make a mortal more rare than fine gold, A man more than the golden wedge of Ophir.

13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, And the earth will move out of her place, In the wrath of the LORD of hosts And in the day of His fierce anger.

Isaiah 13:17 (NKJV) "Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, Who will not regard silver; And as for gold, they will not delight in it.

These passages of scripture describe a historical event that took place in 539 BC. When the Medes destroyed Babylon, the Babylonian world came to an end.

This is the way the Bible discusses the fall of a nation.

The fall of Edom:

Isaiah 34:3-5 (NKJV) Also their slain shall be thrown out; Their stench shall rise from their corpses, And the mountains shall be melted with their blood.

4 All the host of heaven shall be dissolved, And the heavens shall be rolled up like a scroll; All their host shall fall down As the leaf falls from the vine, And as fruit falling from a fig tree.

5 "For My sword shall be bathed in heaven; Indeed it shall come down on Edom, And on the people of My curse, for judgment.

Biblical language to describe the fall of a nation.

Nahum 1 (NKJV) The burden against Nineveh. The book of the vision of Nahum the Elkocrape.

2 God is jealous, and the LORD avenges; The LORD avenges and is furious. The LORD will take vengeance on His adversaries, And He reserves wrath for His enemies;

3 The LORD is slow to anger and great in power, And will not at all acquit the wicked. The LORD has His way In the whirlwind and in the storm, And the clouds are the dust of His feet.

4 He rebukes the sea and makes it dry, And dries up all the rivers. Bashan and Carmel wither, And the flower of Lebanon wilts. 5 The mountains quake before Him, The hills melt, And the earth heaves at His presence, Yes, the world and all who dwell in it.

The subject of this judgement is Nineveh, not the physical world. This is the way God describes the fall of a nation.  

Ezekiel speaks in the same manner of Egypt:

Ezekiel 32:7-8 (NKJV) When I put out your light, I will cover the heavens, and make its stars dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, And the moon shall not give her light.

8 All the bright lights of the heavens I will make dark over you, And bring darkness upon your land,' Says the Lord GOD.

The prophet Daniel speaks, in the same manner, of the slaughter of the Jews by the little horn, the power of the Romans.

Daniel 8:10 (NKJV) And it grew up to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the ground, and trampled them.

Revelation 6:13-17 (NKJV) And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind.

14 Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place.

15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains,

16 and said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb!

17 "For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"

:icon_flower:

[Zeek]

Rev 21:4  And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Rev 21:10  And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

Rev 21:23  And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

Rev 21:24  And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honor into it.

Rev 22:5  And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign forever and ever.

Gal 4:26  But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

[Zeek]

Gal 4:24  Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which engendereth to bondage, which is Hagar.

Gal 4:25  For this Hagar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Gal 4:26  But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Rev 14:8  And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Rev 21:5  And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.


Amo 9:13  Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the plowman shall overtake the reaper, and the treader of grapes him that soweth seed; and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and all the hills shall melt.
mount sinai melted

mt. ZION: 

Psa 48:2  Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King.

[gregoryfl]

Dear Zeek, what gospel is Matthew concerned with? The gospel of the kingdom, that's what gospel. That is not the gospel Paul brought to the nations.

With us of the nations under Paul's evangel, we don't have to endure to the end as Matthew 24:13 states for Paul says "1Th 5:10 Who died for our sakes, that, whether we may be watching or drowsing, we should be living at the same time together with Him."

So there are different evangels: the evangel of the circumcision and the evangel of the Uncircumcision (Galatians 2).
[/quote]

Paul did bring the good news of the kingdom of God, describing it in various ways to the assemblies he wrote to.

Act 14:22 establishing the souls of the disciples, besides entreating them to remain in the faith and saying that, "Through many afflictions must we be entering into the kingdom of God."

Act 19:8 Now, entering the synagogue, he spoke boldly for three months, arguing and persuading as to that which concerns the kingdom of God."

Act 28:31 heralding the kingdom of God, and teaching that which concerns the Lord Jesus Christ with all boldness, unforbidden."

Rom 14:17 for the kingdom of God is not food and drink, but righteousness and peace and joy in holy spirit."

1Co 4:20 For not in word is the kingdom of God, but in power."

1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards; no revilers, no extortioners shall be enjoying the allotment of God's kingdom."

Gal 5:21 envies, murders, drunkennesses, revelries, and the like of these, which, I am predicting to you, according as I predicted also, that those committing such things shall not be enjoying the allotment of the kingdom of God."

Eph 5:5 For this you perceive, knowing that no paramour at all or unclean or greedy person, who is an idolater, has any enjoyment of the allotment in the kingdom of Christ and of God."

1Th 2:12 to be walking worthily of God, Who calls you into His own kingdom and glory."

I agree with you that we today do not need to endure to the end that Jesus spoke of, for that end occurred in 70 AD.

Ron

[claypot]

Hey Ron. I see you wrote... I agree with you that we today do not need to endure to the end that Jesus spoke of, for that end occurred in 70 AD.

I humbly disagree. Jesus is encouraging us every moment to endure to the end. He and His Father are working towards an end and we are that work and end so it behooves us to endure. The very least we can do is endure but of course our enduring can only be done in accordance to the where Jesus and His Father are at within us, but endure we can to some extent.

But Jesus answered them, My Father works, and I work. jn5.17

cp

[Zeek]

Dear Zeek, what gospel is Matthew concerned with? The gospel of the kingdom, that's what gospel. That is not the gospel Paul brought to the nations.

With us of the nations under Paul's evangel, we don't have to endure to the end as Matthew 24:13 states for Paul says "1Th 5:10 Who died for our sakes, that, whether we may be watching or drowsing, we should be living at the same time together with Him."

So there are different evangels: the evangel of the circumcision and the evangel of the Uncircumcision (Galatians 2).

Paul did bring the good news of the kingdom of God, describing it in various ways to the assemblies he wrote to.

Act 14:22 establishing the souls of the disciples, besides entreating them to remain in the faith and saying that, "Through many afflictions must we be entering into the kingdom of God."

Act 19:8 Now, entering the synagogue, he spoke boldly for three months, arguing and persuading as to that which concerns the kingdom of God."

Act 28:31 heralding the kingdom of God, and teaching that which concerns the Lord Jesus Christ with all boldness, unforbidden."

Rom 14:17 for the kingdom of God is not food and drink, but righteousness and peace and joy in holy spirit."

1Co 4:20 For not in word is the kingdom of God, but in power."

1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards; no revilers, no extortioners shall be enjoying the allotment of God's kingdom."

Gal 5:21 envies, murders, drunkennesses, revelries, and the like of these, which, I am predicting to you, according as I predicted also, that those committing such things shall not be enjoying the allotment of the kingdom of God."

Eph 5:5 For this you perceive, knowing that no paramour at all or unclean or greedy person, who is an idolater, has any enjoyment of the allotment in the kingdom of Christ and of God."

1Th 2:12 to be walking worthily of God, Who calls you into His own kingdom and glory."

I agree with you that we today do not need to endure to the end that Jesus spoke of, for that end occurred in 70 AD.

Ron

[/quote]

I disagree with that it was a different gospel, but not a big concern to me.

1:22  In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblamable and unreprovable in his sight:

Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a ministeCol

[Zeek]

Hey Ron. I see you wrote... I agree with you that we today do not need to endure to the end that Jesus spoke of, for that end occurred in 70 AD.

I humbly disagree. Jesus is encouraging us every moment to endure to the end. He and His Father are working towards an end and we are that work and end so it behooves us to endure. The very least we can do is endure but of course our enduring can only be done in accordance to the where Jesus and His Father are at within us, but endure we can to some extent.

But Jesus answered them, My Father works, and I work. jn5.17

cp

what are you enduring to?  what are you waiting for??

[Zeek]

1Th 5:16  Rejoice evermore.
1Th 5:17  Pray without ceasing.
1Th 5:18  In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
1Th 5:19  Quench not the Spirit.
1Th 5:20  Despise not prophesyings.
1Th 5:21  Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
1Th 5:22  Abstain from all appearance of evil.
1Th 5:23  And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[Zeek]

1Co 10:5  But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

1Co 10:6  Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

1Co 10:7  Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

1Co 10:8  Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.

1Co 10:9  Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

1Co 10:10  Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.

1Co 10:11  Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

1Co 10:12  Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

[claypot]

Hi Zeek,

For it is God which works in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure. Phil2.13

I would say I am enduring to and waiting for God's work and Jesus' work to be done in me and in all creation. I am a complete work yet I am a work in progress. Do you understand what I am trying to say?

cp

[claypot]

Zeek, I don't know what you are saying in your last 2 posts.

cp