Natural and Spiritual

[Taffy]

Didnt Jesus appear once in the end of the world? End of what world then Tony?

But he was Lamb that was crucified BEFORE the foundation of the world, what world was that too? And yet the flood was a figure of batism itself, how do you work that?

Hey G want to take a stab at it?  :grin:

agh..A peaceful word....not Now sis maybe when me Head clears some...tis all yours if ya wish...theres a Pm in ya box for ya
xoxoxooxoxoxoxo

:grin: Me and Chrissie was going on this last year I thought it was pretty amazing, end of one world but before the foundation of one, the declaring "the end" FROM the beginning= Christ (whose name is both the beginning and the end) Pretty kool how he hides stuff, then theres the beginning of wisdom and the receiving the END of your faith  :grin: I wonder WHO?  :grin:

come to me some time back sis,dont know how far ya Got with it, theres sure a Lot tied up in those verses..like everything,
Like all scriptures sis...TIS HIM which they Testify too :icon_flower:

Brings in the end of Man 120 Years as with Moses( End of AGE), Rosey added some too not long back On the Days Be shortened 70 Yrs...it just goes on agh sis..heads a scramble kiddo.. :icon_flower:

Exactly the age of Moses is shown around the time of the flood, the numbering of mans days 120 years which makes sense of the FIGURE it became and links Adam and Moses together even in Genenis before we even see Him in the picture. I got my old notes on it on the other puter. When Moses died his NATURAL force was not abated, but neither was Pauls when He died  :grin:

:HeartThrob:

WITNESSED  also here sis

Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also [is] flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: And Sheba has significance this way also; those that are placed back in the outer court from the inner court, who did not press in to go into the Holy of Holies (where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when they see what they could have had), are "Sheba-ed", ie. marked with an oath. Sheba means also to return again. You can't return to a place you've never been. Sheba, a type of the soul, when she saw all of Solomon's riches, and His wisdom, there was no breath left in her (she gave up the ghost/died to self). Cain was marked for this reason also.

Also, look up the THIRD well, it's name is Beersheba, the first two represent the flesh and the mind that we have to overcome; our "enemies" push us to the 3rd and then we find peace......Blessings.....

[Taffy]

yo shabeans =Sheba\oath Seven..That One was New To me sis... :HeartThrob:
gosh Tis every where..I love it when I see something new....Decendant of SETH, woooooooooooooooo

[peacemaker]

An upheaval, or radical change is called an earthquake.

"We all go down in the crust of our earth, but come up rejoicing in newness of life."

A transformation from earthly to heavenly; putting our carnal thoughts to rest. And then shall that wicked be revealed.

peacemaker

[rosered]

 
  I also agree  because what is earthly sensual and devilish is below 
and what is above is
  the heavenly realm is peace , joy and the Holy Ghost
  what a differnce a  DAY  makes .. hee   or The DAY [CHRIST]   :winkgrin:

[Cardinal]

Wow! Sheba means also to return? Seven and Return? Like SEVEN more spirits that RETURN into an empty house?  There were seven cast out of another woman  :grin: A woman and the number seven (hmmm where have I seen that before?)  :grin: In revelation too woman sitting on seven things there lol

:cloud9: It ties in with Hosea, the end of 5 and the beginning of 6, where God says He will return unto His place until we acknowledge our offense. Our offense? That our ways are not His ways, so the fear of the Lord (acknowledging our offense) is the beginning of wisdom.

So we, as souls are returning to being one with Him from the foundation of the world. The firstfruits follow the Lamb wheresoever He goest, into the Holy of Holies, ie. the sons of God manifested. Those that don't are "cast out" back into outer court realm, but they are marked to return, this is UR in another pattern. Blessings...

[bobf]

Tony, here is a copy of my earlier post.

No, dear friend, Satan did not impregnate their mothers. They are not literally the offspring of Satan.

Tony, I didn't say that Satan impregnated their mothers.  I said that's what someone who believes the serpent-seed doctrine (i.e. who read "children" literally) would say to you.  My point is that you do not take "children" literally.

Paul was chosen in Christ before the disruption of the world. The others were not. So though Paul was killing christians he did it (according to him) innocently.
1Ti 1:13 "I, who formerly was a calumniator and a persecutor and an outrager: but I was shown mercy, seeing that I do it being ignorant, in unbelief."

Ignorantly does not mean innocently.

Before Paul even believed he was already set for life eonian:
Act 13:48 "Now on hearing this, the nations rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord, and they believe, whoever were set for life eonian."

It doesn't say that if they believe they would be set for life eonian.

So Paul was a wheat, a son of the kingdom, even before doing anything good or bad that God's grace may be remaining as a choice, not out of acts but of Him Who is calling.

But now you've changed your definition of wheat & tares to elect and non-elect.  Before you said "The sons of the wicked one make snares and do lawlessness" and Paul was doing lawlessness by killing Christians.  Your first definition was correct.  Jesus identified the sons of God and sons of Satan by their deeds.

• John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. 41 Ye do the deeds of your father.

Jesus talks about good trees bringing forth good fruit and corrupt trees bringing forth corrupt fruit.  Each tree is identified by it's fruit.  Paul admits here to having been a corrupt tree, having the same nature and walking according to the same spirit as any tare.

• Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

So what you're telling me is that the wheat & tares are not identified by their fruit, but by whether God has elected them, which no one can know who that is.  The wheat and tares in the parable were identified by their fruit when the fruit appeared.

[Taffy]

Hi Tony
Chris would appreciate an Answer too

Quote from: Tony N on December 31, 2008, 05:41:54 PM
Quote from: Fireinfolding on December 31, 2008, 05:32:51 PM
Quote from: Tony N on December 31, 2008, 05:15:05 PM
Quote from: Fireinfolding on December 31, 2008, 03:36:43 PM
Tony writes


Quote
Jesus didn't want the removal of the darnel to take place UNTIL both the darnel and the wheat was ready. That's the point. The point is not the how of removing but WHEN is the proper time to remove both. It is when both are ripe for harvest. And that time is at the end of the eon and not afterword.

Mat 13:39 the harvest IS **the end of** the world; and THE REAPERS ARE THE ANGELS.

But then he says this...

John 4:25 SAY NOT ye, There are YET four months, and THEN cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.

I mean he did say "the REAPERS are the Angels" right? But then He also said "I send YOU TO REAP"

John 4:38 I sent **YOU** TO REAP that whereon ye bestowed NO LABOUR: ***other men laboured***, and ye are entered **into** their labours.

Which appears to connect to this same thought

Neh 4:21 So we laboured **in the work** and half of them ***held the spears*** from ***THE RISING OF*** the morning **TILL** THE STARS APPEARED.

The ANGELS, or the STARS APPEARING in THE WORK (or labour) they ENTER INTO that which THEY HAVE BESTOWED NO LABOUR = OTHER MEN laboured

2Cr 10:16 To preach the gospel in the regions beyond you, and not to boast in ***ANOTHER man's line of things*** **MADE READY** TO **OUR HAND**

Which is sorta kool because Paul said "Ye received me as an ANGEL, as Christ himself" and in Revelation it speaks of an Angel having the everlasting gospel and how Paul was not taught the gospel he preached but received it of a revelation of Jesus Christ, and also how he said, if any man preaches another gospel then the one we preached let him be accursed.

But in regards to the Angels, its kool it shows elsewhere one holding a SICKLE (which are pruning hooks) TO REAP but not with spears (the others held). The spears were held TILL the Stars (I see as the angels) who appeared. The beating of" ones swords into pruning hooks is shown too.

Though I think its kinda neat how they actually laboured till the MORNING did RISE and then (((the stars appeared))) cause (I personally) see stars much better at night 



Dear Fireinfolding,
The disciples of John 4 are not the angels/messengers of the parable of the tares and the wheat.

Mat 13:41 The Son of Mankind shall be dispatching His messengers, and they shall be culling out of His kingdom all the snares and those doing lawlessness,

The end of the world or eon did not happen in John 4:



So Christ did not appear once IN the end of the world?

So are you saying there is YET four months (or whatever amount of time there is) UNTIL the harvest? 

Nothing applies huh?   Just your word bout it? 


No sweetheart, Jesus did not appear at the end of the world.
Here is the verse:

Heb 9:26 since then He must often be suffering from the disruption of the world, yet now, once, at the conclusion of the eons, for the repudiation of sin through His sacrifice, is He manifest."

Please note that "eons" is plural. When the eons end then sin will finally be repudiated due to His sacrifice. And it was for that reason He was manifest.

I think that the harvest Jesus spoke of in John 4 did come but the harvest of Matthew comes at the end of the eon, the end of this eon in which we life.

No sweetheart, it is not my word about it but THE Word has the final say.

He still came at the end of the "eons" (ages, or "world" as rendered in the KJV to which Fire was referring) did He not?

So if "the harvest" takes place at "the end of the world" (ages) and Christ came "at the end of the world" (ages) and He said (when He was here) that the field was "white already to harvest" and He said that in the time of harvest (which takes place "at the end of the world" or "ages", which time it was when He came) He would send forth His angels to reap and He said "I sent you to reap" (speaking to His disciples), how are they NOT "the angels" (the reapers) of whom Christ spoke? And how is the harvest of John 4 and the harvest of Mat 13 not the same harvest?

[Molly]

1If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

1 Cor 13

[Chris]

  I also agree  because what is earthly sensual and devilish is below 
and what is above is
  the heavenly realm is peace , joy and the Holy Ghost
  what a differnce a  DAY  makes .. hee   or The DAY [CHRIST]   :winkgrin:

Amen Rose!

Christ said: "Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world."

The way of LIFE IS ABOVE to the wise, that he may depart from HELL BENEATH!  :grin:

AMEN!!  :happygrin:

Thy kingdom come thy will be done IN EARTH as is it IN HEAVEN.  :thumbsup:

[Chris]

You did that to me.  :laughing7:

[MacPherson]

oh By the way Mr Inquisition

Bob F still waiting..and I am...but i dare say we will wait a long time cos when ya get lost ya run...Prove me wrong Bud.

go answer Him...Mr Inquisition :icon_flower:

TELL ME ABOUT IT! :laughing7:

[MacPherson]

Again Tony No answer

Oh, so that's what the "N" stands for. :laughing7: :BangHead:

[Tony N]

Tony, Right in the middle of Mat 24, he says this--

16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

So he's talking about events in Judaea, not in New York City.



Then he tells them about the fig tree--which we know he's been telling them for a while that the fig will produce no more fruit forever--relating to Israel--


32Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.



In chapter 25, he says he is going to divide the nations--and today we do have great Christian nations, great Muslim nations, great Hindu nations, etc.

Dear Molly, my bad  :Oops:
Christ spoke of earthquakes in divers places

Mat 24:7 For roused shall be a nation against a nation, and a kingdom against a kingdom, and there shall be famines and quakes in places."

He also said that before He comes and before the eon in which we live ends this also must take place:

Mat 24:29 Now immediately after the affliction of those days the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not be giving her beams, and the stars shall be falling from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken."

And John, in Revelation states the same thing will happen before the Lord returns:
Rev 8:12 "And the fourth messenger trumpets. And a third of the sun and a third of the moon and a third of the stars were eclipsed, that a third of them may be darkened, and the day may not be appearing for a third of it, and the night likewise."

Rev 6:12-14  And I perceived, when It opens the sixth seal, and a great cataclysm occurred, and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the whole moon became as blood,  (13)  and the stars of heaven fall on the earth as a fig tree is casting its shriveled figs, quaking under a great wind."  (14)  And heaven recoils as a scroll rolling up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place."

John also stated that before this eon ends . . . before the 1000 year eon comes that this must happen:

Rev 16:18-20  And lightnings and voices and thunders occurred. And a great earthquake occurred, such as did not occur since mankind came to be on the earth; of such proportions was the quake and so great."  (19)  And the great city came to be divided into three parts; and the cities of the nations fall. And Babylon the great is brought to remembrance in the sight of God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fury of His indignation."  (20)  And every island fled, and the mountains were not found."

Isaiah also spoke of that terrible day:

Isa 13:9-13  Behold! The day of Yahweh has come, cruel, with rage and hot anger, to make the entire earth a desolation, and its sinners is He exterminating from it."  (10)  For the stars of the heavens are not appearing, and their constellations are not irradiating their light. Dark is the sun in its faring forth, and the moon is not brightening with its light."  (11)  And I check over all the habitance for its evil, and on the wicked for their depravity. And I eradicate the pomp of the arrogant, and the pride of the terrifiers am I abasing."  (12)  More precious am I making the remaining mortal than glittering gold. And a human than certified African gold.  (13)  Therefore the heavens will I disturb, and the earth shall quake from its place, in the furious rage of Yahweh of hosts, and in the day of His hot anger."

And Mark records this event:

Mar 13:24 But in those days, after that affliction, the sun shall be darkened,
Mar 13:25 and the moon shall not be giving her beams, and the stars shall be falling out of heaven, and the powers in the heavens shall be shaken."
Mar 13:26 And then shall they be seeing the Son of Mankind coming in clouds with much power and glory.

These things all happen before the present eon ends. The disciples asked the Lord:

Mat 24:3 Now at His sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what is the sign of Thy presence and of the conclusion of the eon?

and He enumerated all which the above verses speak of. Please note also in Revelation that all these things must come to pass before the thousand year reign of Christ comes in Revelation 20:4 which is the next eon.

:Peace:

Tony

[Tony N]

Didnt Jesus appear once in the end of the world? End of what world then Tony?

But he was Lamb that was crucified BEFORE the foundation of the world, what world was that too? And yet the flood was a figure of batism itself, how do you work that?

Tony any thought on this one?

Dear Fireinfolding,
I cannot find the verse where it stated that "Jesus appear once in the end of the world." could you please reference that verse?

As to your second statement:
Rev 13:8  And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The Lamb was slain proleptically from the disruption; actually, of course, He was slain at Golgotha.
The blood of Christ was
1Pe 1:20 "foreknown, indeed, before the disruption of the world, yet manifested in the last times because of you, who through Him are believing in God,

Just as Abraham carried the death of his son for days before ascending the mountain, so God carried the death of His Son for many thousands of years before the mount of Golgotha.

[Tony N]

Tony, here is a copy of my earlier post.

No, dear friend, Satan did not impregnate their mothers. They are not literally the offspring of Satan.

Tony, I didn't say that Satan impregnated their mothers.  I said that's what someone who believes the serpent-seed doctrine (i.e. who read "children" literally) would say to you.  My point is that you do not take "children" literally.

Paul was chosen in Christ before the disruption of the world. The others were not. So though Paul was killing christians he did it (according to him) innocently.
1Ti 1:13 "I, who formerly was a calumniator and a persecutor and an outrager: but I was shown mercy, seeing that I do it being ignorant, in unbelief."

Ignorantly does not mean innocently.

Before Paul even believed he was already set for life eonian:
Act 13:48 "Now on hearing this, the nations rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord, and they believe, whoever were set for life eonian."

It doesn't say that if they believe they would be set for life eonian.

So Paul was a wheat, a son of the kingdom, even before doing anything good or bad that God's grace may be remaining as a choice, not out of acts but of Him Who is calling.

But now you've changed your definition of wheat & tares to elect and non-elect.  Before you said "The sons of the wicked one make snares and do lawlessness" and Paul was doing lawlessness by killing Christians.  Your first definition was correct.  Jesus identified the sons of God and sons of Satan by their deeds.

• John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. 41 Ye do the deeds of your father.

Jesus talks about good trees bringing forth good fruit and corrupt trees bringing forth corrupt fruit.  Each tree is identified by it's fruit.  Paul admits here to having been a corrupt tree, having the same nature and walking according to the same spirit as any tare.

• Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

So what you're telling me is that the wheat & tares are not identified by their fruit, but by whether God has elected them, which no one can know who that is.  The wheat and tares in the parable were identified by their fruit when the fruit appeared.

Dear Bobf, let's go back and see what Jesus said:
"He Who is sowing the ideal seed is the Son of Mankind."
Mat 13:38-42  Now the field is the world. Now the ideal seed, these are the sons of the kingdom. Now the darnel are the sons of the wicked one."  (39)  Now the enemy who sows them is the Adversary. Now the harvest is the conclusion of the eon. Now the reapers are messengers.  (40)  Even as the darnel, then, are being culled and burned up with fire, thus shall it be in the conclusion of the eon."  (41)  The Son of Mankind shall be dispatching His messengers, and they shall be culling out of His kingdom all the snares and those doing lawlessness,  (42)  and they shall be casting them into a furnace of fire. There shall be lamentation and gnashing of teeth.

• sower of ideal seed = Son of Mankind
• Field = world
• Ideal seed = sons of the kingdom
• Darnel = sons of the wicked one
• Enemy that sows darnel = the Adversary
• Harvest = conclusion of the eon
• Reapers = messengers

How will the messengers know which ones are the sons of the adversary which they will separate from the ideal seed?
The messengers will see who are doing snares and those doing lawlessness and take them out of the kingdom.

Those are the sons of the wicked one. The messengers know them by their fruit.

Paul is a departure from this since God is now dealing with us in grace rather than wrath. Paul was shown mercy.

[Taffy]

Thank you G I was trying to fix the quotes myself and I was like, "the heck with it"  :grin:

Hi sis No worries,..Im still suffering some, not up to posting much..heads Like cotton wool...thanks for the Pm, ill get around later to responding...OH ,and ya Post made sense to me  :icon_flower:
:HeartThrob:

[bobf]

• sower of ideal seed = Son of Mankind
• Field = world
• Ideal seed = sons of the kingdom
• Darnel = sons of the wicked one
• Enemy that sows darnel = the Adversary
• Harvest = conclusion of the eon
• Reapers = messengers

I agree with your list, but the stuff on the right still has to be interpreted.

How will the messengers know which ones are the sons of the adversary which they will separate from the ideal seed?  The messengers will see who are doing snares and those doing lawlessness and take them out of the kingdom.

The phrases "children of the wicked one" and "children of the kingdom" are not interpreted or explained by Christ.  You have interpreted them as physical people with names like BobF and TonyN, depending on whether God has elected them to inherit the kingdom at the end of the eon.

But other scripture already defines those terms:
Children of the God = those who do righteousness
Children of the Devil = those who do not do righteousness

Using your interpretation combined with those two definitions:
- Every person hearing that parable was either a wheat or tare
- Those who were wheat will enter the kingdom of God
- But first they had to repent, repent of not doing righteousness, repent of being a child of the devil
- Wheat had to repent of being tares
- So this is messed up!

Let's work backwards:
- Wheat is a child of the kingdom.
- A child of the kingdom is a child of God.
- A child of God is one who is born of God.
- That which is born of the Spirit (God) is spirit.
- So a Child of God, Child of the Kingdom, Wheat, is spirit born of the Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, born within the heart of a person of flesh and blood by incorruptible Seed, the Word of Life, planted by Christ in the world, specifically in the hearts of people in the world.

Wheat bares wheat fruit.  Good trees bare good fruit.  Whosoever (Spirit of Christ in me) is born of God can not sin.
Tares bare tare fruit.  Corrupt trees bare corrupt fruit.  He (carnal man) who sins is of the devil.

• Romans 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man.

Tony there is both:
- SIN and EVIL dwelling IN ME and WITH ME that is NOT ME!
- An INWARD MAN that delighteth in the law of God and that is ME!

[peacemaker]

"We are not predestinated to sin, that's choice; but we are predestined to holiness."

1 Peter

1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy has begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fades not away, reserved in heaven for you,

1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. (1:5, 7, 20) ...in these days.

1:6 Wherein you greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, you are in heaviness through manifold temptations:

1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perishes, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honor and glory at (from) the appearing of Jesus Christ:

1:8 Whom having not seen, you love; in whom, though now you see him not, yet believing, you rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory

1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us, they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that [is] to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

1:14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:

1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;

1:16 Because it is written, Be you holy; for I am holy.

1:17 And if you call on the Father, who without respect of persons judges according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

1:18 For as much as you know that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: (1:19-20)

1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifested in these last times for you,

1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

1:22 Seeing you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that you love one another with a pure heart fervently:

1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which lives and abides for ever.

1:24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withers, and the flower thereof falls away:

1:25 But the word of the Lord endures for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel [of Christ] is preached unto you.

"A carnal mind is not the only thing within man; unless he is heartless."

peacemaker

Taffy, you are in my heart of hearts, brethren!

[bobf]

Good post bobf, Amen bro  :bigGrin:

TY FF! 

[peacemaker]

Fire in folding  (love that name).

Emphases are good, thus, also read the portion not in bold.

Separate thought ...

And a great earthquake occurred, such as did not occur since mankind came to be on the earth; of such proportions was the quake and so great; that it tore the veil.

Brings tears to the eyes just thinking about it. An act of weeping or grieving!

peacemaker

[Taffy]

PM - Fire - Rosey - Card. :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower:

Thanks guys...

PM love to you and Your Wife Bro...Hope shes very MUCH on the MEND :icon_flower:

[peacemaker]

PM - Fire - Rosey - Card. :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower:

Thanks guys...

PM love to you and Your Wife Bro...Hope shes very MUCH on the MEND :icon_flower:

Thank you, brethren!

There is always hope, although her body is frail, tenuous, and in severe pain due to multiple surgeries.
But, she remains spiritually "strong of heart!" Like someone else I've come to know :icon_flower:
And it appears that you have broken the eleventh commandment of; "thou shall not speak."  :Oops:

peacemaker

[Tony N]

• sower of ideal seed = Son of Mankind
• Field = world
• Ideal seed = sons of the kingdom
• Darnel = sons of the wicked one
• Enemy that sows darnel = the Adversary
• Harvest = conclusion of the eon
• Reapers = messengers

I agree with your list, but the stuff on the right still has to be interpreted.

How will the messengers know which ones are the sons of the adversary which they will separate from the ideal seed?  The messengers will see who are doing snares and those doing lawlessness and take them out of the kingdom.

The phrases "children of the wicked one" and "children of the kingdom" are not interpreted or explained by Christ.  You have interpreted them as physical people with names like BobF and TonyN, depending on whether God has elected them to inherit the kingdom at the end of the eon.

But other scripture already defines those terms:
Children of the God = those who do righteousness
Children of the Devil = those who do not do righteousness

Using your interpretation combined with those two definitions:
- Every person hearing that parable was either a wheat or tare
- Those who were wheat will enter the kingdom of God
- But first they had to repent, repent of not doing righteousness, repent of being a child of the devil
- Wheat had to repent of being tares
- So this is messed up!

Tony's reply:
Dear Bob, Thanks for your thoughts on this matter.
The parable says nothing to do with the tares "having to repent, repent of doing righteousness, repent of being a child of the devil." Christ also neither said nor even intimated that the tares had to repent of being tares. Neither did I imply that. So, yes, of course this is messed up.

Bob wrote:
Let's work backwards:
- Wheat is a child of the kingdom.
- A child of the kingdom is a child of God.
- A child of God is one who is born of God.
- That which is born of the Spirit (God) is spirit.
- So a Child of God, Child of the Kingdom, Wheat, is spirit born of the Spirit, the Spirit of Christ, born within the heart of a person of flesh and blood by incorruptible Seed, the Word of Life, planted by Christ in the world, specifically in the hearts of people in the world.


Wheat bares wheat fruit.  Good trees bare good fruit.  Whosoever (Spirit of Christ in me) is born of God can not sin.
Tares bare tare fruit.  Corrupt trees bare corrupt fruit.  He (carnal man) who sins is of the devil.

• Romans 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man.

Tony there is both:
- SIN and EVIL dwelling IN ME and WITH ME that is NOT ME!
- An INWARD MAN that delighteth in the law of God and that is ME!

Tony's reply:
Dear Bob,
First of all, the angels do the reaping. It doesn't say that when one repents they are reaped.
Mat 13:41-42  The Son of Mankind shall be dispatching His messengers (or angels), and they shall be culling out of His kingdom all the snares and those doing lawlessness,  (42)  and they shall be casting them into a furnace of fire. There shall be lamentation and gnashing of teeth.

This is not about individuals repenting of being a tare and upon repentence become a wheat.
If you are saying that the tare inside of you is the bad part inside of you, how do the angels come and take that bad part out of you and cast it out of the kingdom and burn it up? How does that bad part of you wheep and gnash its teeth? Will people be schizoid where a part of them will be laughing and the other part of them at the same time be wheeping and gnashing their teeth?

When the angels are sent by the Son of Mankind they are sent at the end of the eon.
Some (at least one, Fireinfold) believes that the end of the eon happened when Jesus appeared almost 2000 years ago.
If that is the case, Bob, then almost 2000 years ago Christ already sent in his angels and already did the reaping of all the tares and wheat so you are about 2000 years too late to have the tares separated from the wheat in your body.


The messengers/angels go into the kingdom and cast out of that kingdom all the snares and all who are doing lawlessness. It says nothing about repentence. It says nothing about the wheat and the tares being in each individual person.

The reaping does not happen when each individual person repents. It is an all or nothing event. It is ALL the tares and ALL the wheat ALL at the same time are reaped and culled at the end of the eon and the tares are bundled up, cast out of the kingdom where they will wheep and gnash their teeth. It is all the sons of the kingdom and all the sons of the wicked one all at the exact same time being reaped by the angels and the sons of the wicked one being cast out of the kingdom where they will weep and gnash their teeth.

Sorry if this gives anyone a headache.
The truth hurts first and then it sets you free.
Tony
http://saviourofall.org

[rosered]

Makes you wonder why (in regards to the "smoke") its worded like... "the smoke OF their torment" ascendeth?

  wow food for thought sis !
a burning  is going on  as we speak  :thumbsup: