Natural and Spiritual

[Taffy]

Jhn 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. 

  Seem the Spiritual realm is the unseen  with natural eyes   we Know Jesus was born of Holy Ghost but come into  the Flesh  realm / kingdom

Kinda getting weary sis..and close to  beddies me thinks..

Yes Rosey,..For me The disciples, which Christ Used Peter more than Most to SHOW the Flesh indeed Profits Nothing , His worldly\Law Knowledge was purposeless.

They were very much Carnal in their thinking,Of course this changed as They grew Come the The Spirit..But early doors they were Indeed very Much apart of the WORLD of its time

[rosered]

  nighty nite bro G , rest well brother ...... :HeartThrob:


Jam 3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same [is] a perfect man, [and] able also to bridle the whole body.
this may belong in the Rudder thread , but seems  appropriate  after Fires post  :thumbsup:

   showing  weakness in the flesh  big time  , but that is when the Lord is our strength  :thumbsup:

  seesm like old times  as of late
  sure enjoy the fellowship     with  everyone   once again
  God love ya all .. rose  :HeartThrob:

[Taffy]

   Tony , I am sorry I am using/ on your  thread  and as far as seeing what Jesus said at face value
 you can do some of that , but for many of Christ  words you cannot take it  that literal  
I  will use this example
 to stay on track here with your quest  ok ? Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.  

 now consider this  Tony , I could  go cut down a tree and drag it  all over the place  looking for Jesus  to follow Him , but where is the literal Jesus at ?     So I could actually and literally follow Him ?

 see   what I mean , interpertation is Key to Spiritual understanding what the WORD/SPIRIT is saying to us all

If it were that easy  I would do it!  cut down a tree and drag it all over  town and look for Jesus to follow , its not  that simple bro? see what I am trying to say in so many words?
 peace , no one   sees Jesus after the flesh anylonger , we are to not even  see one another that way either  ,  because we will see the  wrong way


  for eal so many would admire my trying or even think i be a nut case ,  but what would God do for me if I  went around looking for Jesus to follow  like that ?

Now that is a great post rosered. Since Jesus never explained what "cross" meant as He did most of his other sayings, I would take it to mean that it did not need explained. The disciples knew it meant dying to oneself for what the Lord wanted. If one was unable to do so then they should not be His disciples.

Just where would I find that in the scrips then Tony.

They didnt Understand a Thing about Dying to Self , they Thought  what they were doing was EARNING IT, ?.... OR Lest why did Peter Cut off the ear of the Centurian, to Protect Him who would be KING

or maybe after talking to this Rich man which No Doubt was another Pharisee , come to Understand it either..EVEN THINKING THEY GAVE UP ALL THEY HAD....AND ALL Tony is all and if all, Then That to would conclude dying to themseves..They hadnt a CLUE

at this stage They were Babes....

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?


Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.


Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,


Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and [thy] mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


Mat 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?


Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me.


Mat 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.


Mat 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.


Mat 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.


Mat 19:25 When his disciples heard [it], they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?


Mat 19:26 But Jesus beheld [them], and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.


Mat 19:27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?


Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel

Yeah, hey G  I know you recall Peters  rebuke from Christ concerning His own death right? Jesus turns and looks upon the disciples and says to Peter, get thee behind me SATAN and RIGHT THERE is the mention of being mindful of the things of MEN not God. This is shown as a stumbling block and an OFFENSE to Christ.

This is shown a couple times in Peter. His fear of the circumcision was what cause him not to walk uprightly in accordance with the truth (even as it pertains to the cross) of the which Paul speaks of...

Gal 5:11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.


Mat 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

So true ...

Prov 29:25 The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the LORD shall be safe.


Not walking "uprightly" as shown in Gal 2:14 (as they were actaully found *not* walking) which is after the truth of the gospel pertains to the cross of Christ. This is the same spiritual truth Peter got rebuked of the Lord. This (Mat 16:22) would be contrasted against those who would ~bow down~ their back always verses walking uprightly Rom 11:10 This, appears to parallel the cross/ upright stake (walking uprightly in accordance to the gospel). Rose showed me the upright stake = the cross and you can see the principle of it in Jesus's confrontation of Peter and Paul's as well.

So thats where I'm seeing "the snare" (fear of men) and "stumbling block" is shown concerning their table (using the words..."backs bowed down") verses ~walking uprightly~ Rom 11:9

This is the same table that is set in the presence of ~his enemies~ Romans 11:28 and its in this regard ~the many~ who live (specifically) as enemies of the Cross of Christ Phil 3:18 Its just as Paul says as it pertains to being persecuted (for the cross of Christ) . Jesus speaks of persecution coming because of the word they become ~offended~ and fall away. This also speaking to their "falling away" and many being ~offended~ in accordance to the same truths.

So if Peter "got it" he fell into the same snare (even stumbling block) in his "fear of man" (the circumcision especially) and being "mindful of the things of men" are shown there once again  :grin:

Hugs  :HeartThrob:

Great adage Fire :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower:

I seem to recall Galatians 2 in particular used some yrs back when I wasnt to popular on some ones Board,, :thumbsup: mentioning similar issues

Yeah Tis Close to Beddies..Its Not real late ,may get a Second wind..Just getting a Little brain shot....as ya do


so Ill hang about and read some here for a Bit :icon_flower:
:HeartThrob:

so ill hang around a while

[Taffy]

  nighty nite bro G , rest well brother ...... :HeartThrob:


Jam 3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same [is] a perfect man, [and] able also to bridle the whole body.
this may belong in the Rudder thread , but seems  appropriate  after Fires post  :thumbsup:

   showing  weakness in the flesh  big time  , but that is when the Lord is our strength  :thumbsup:

  seesm like old times  as of late
  sure enjoy the fellowship     with  everyone   once again
  God love ya all .. rose  :HeartThrob:

Thanks sis.. :HeartThrob:

Very appropriate :thumbsup:

aint they really ALL  :icon_flower:   one thread


xoxoxoxoxoxox

[rosered]

  nighty nite bro G , rest well brother ...... :HeartThrob:


Jam 3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same [is] a perfect man, [and] able also to bridle the whole body.
this may belong in the Rudder thread , but seems  appropriate  after Fires post  :thumbsup:

   showing  weakness in the flesh  big time  , but that is when the Lord is our strength  :thumbsup:

  seesm like old times  as of late
  sure enjoy the fellowship     with  everyone   once again
  God love ya all .. rose  :HeartThrob:

Thanks sis.. :HeartThrob:

Very appropriate :thumbsup:

aint they really ALL  :icon_flower:   one thread


xoxoxoxoxoxox

LOL   ,, Ha ha , i got a good chuckle out of that
  yes bro one continuous   TRAIN of Thoughts .. :laughing7:

[rosered]

  nighty nite bro G , rest well brother ...... :HeartThrob:


Jam 3:2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same [is] a perfect man, [and] able also to bridle the whole body.
this may belong in the Rudder thread , but seems  appropriate  after Fires post  :thumbsup:

   showing  weakness in the flesh  big time  , but that is when the Lord is our strength  :thumbsup:

  seesm like old times  as of late
  sure enjoy the fellowship     with  everyone   once again
  God love ya all .. rose  :HeartThrob:

I MISSED YOU TOO!!  :girlheart: ((HUGE HUGS)) It does dont it? Its awesome how God can bring us together again and we can continue where we left off isnt it?

I'm not a perfect man yet cause I wrestle my tongue down too much and sometimes I lose my grip and it slips away from me  :grin:

I must ask forgiveness for the sin of my lips more often then I'd really like to have to  :msealed:

:HeartThrob:

Huge hugs back at cha sis . :girlheart:

 Me too sis , me too ask also for  Gods mercy and forgiveness ,  knowing  that in my flesh  is no good thing , except the   Lords Spirit  and that is what keeps my ''hope '' alive

or I would not even  try or care at all some days  :sigh:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Pleasant dreams, Gramster...... :HeartThrob:

[Tony N]

   Tony , I am sorry I am using/ on your  thread  and as far as seeing what Jesus said at face value
 you can do some of that , but for many of Christ  words you cannot take it  that literal  
I  will use this example
 to stay on track here with your quest  ok ? Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.  

 now consider this  Tony , I could  go cut down a tree and drag it  all over the place  looking for Jesus  to follow Him , but where is the literal Jesus at ?     So I could actually and literally follow Him ?

 see   what I mean , interpertation is Key to Spiritual understanding what the WORD/SPIRIT is saying to us all

If it were that easy  I would do it!  cut down a tree and drag it all over  town and look for Jesus to follow , its not  that simple bro? see what I am trying to say in so many words?
 peace , no one   sees Jesus after the flesh anylonger , we are to not even  see one another that way either  ,  because we will see the  wrong way


  for eal so many would admire my trying or even think i be a nut case ,  but what would God do for me if I  went around looking for Jesus to follow  like that ?

Now that is a great post rosered. Since Jesus never explained what "cross" meant as He did most of his other sayings, I would take it to mean that it did not need explained. The disciples knew it meant dying to oneself for what the Lord wanted. If one was unable to do so then they should not be His disciples.

Just where would I find that in the scrips  Tony.

They didnt Understand a Thing about Dying to Self , they Thought  what they were doing was EARNING salvation ?.... OR Lest why did Peter Cut off the ear of the Centurian, to Protect Him who would be KING

or maybe after talking to this Rich man, which No Doubt was another Pharisee , or then come to Understand it ..EVEN THINKING THEY GAVE UP ALL THEY HAD....AND ALL Tony is all ,and if all, Then That to would conclude dying to themseves..They hadnt a CLUE

at this stage They were Babes....

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?


Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.


Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,


Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and [thy] mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


Mat 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?


Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me.


Mat 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.


Mat 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.


Mat 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.


Mat 19:25 When his disciples heard [it], they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?


Mat 19:26 But Jesus beheld [them], and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.


Mat 19:27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?


Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel

Taffy, obviously you are too sleepy to think clearly for your post actually proves my point.
The man who was not a disciple was clueless. The disciples were bearing their crosses and so were rightly called His disciples. They were dying to their wants to fulfill Christ's needs. They left all, gave up all. They said so themselves. The young man that came to Christ was not a disciple.

Again, Jesus did not have to explain the "take up your cross" to the disciples. They knew what it meant. The outsiders were obviously clueless and were not His disciples.

Jesus explained the wheat and the tares to His disciples but not to the outsiders because He said "Mat 13:11 Now, answering, He said to them that "To you has it been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of the heavens, yet to those it has not been given."

Jesus explained what the cup and the bread were at the last supper. The figure and the actuality. But I'm sure you want to turn the actuality back into another figure just like you did with the wheat and tares.

[Taffy]

   Tony , I am sorry I am using/ on your  thread  and as far as seeing what Jesus said at face value
 you can do some of that , but for many of Christ  words you cannot take it  that literal  
I  will use this example
 to stay on track here with your quest  ok ? Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.  

 now consider this  Tony , I could  go cut down a tree and drag it  all over the place  looking for Jesus  to follow Him , but where is the literal Jesus at ?     So I could actually and literally follow Him ?

 see   what I mean , interpertation is Key to Spiritual understanding what the WORD/SPIRIT is saying to us all

If it were that easy  I would do it!  cut down a tree and drag it all over  town and look for Jesus to follow , its not  that simple bro? see what I am trying to say in so many words?
 peace , no one   sees Jesus after the flesh anylonger , we are to not even  see one another that way either  ,  because we will see the  wrong way


  for eal so many would admire my trying or even think i be a nut case ,  but what would God do for me if I  went around looking for Jesus to follow  like that ?

Now that is a great post rosered. Since Jesus never explained what "cross" meant as He did most of his other sayings, I would take it to mean that it did not need explained. The disciples knew it meant dying to oneself for what the Lord wanted. If one was unable to do so then they should not be His disciples.

Just where would I find that in the scrips  Tony.

They didnt Understand a Thing about Dying to Self , they Thought  what they were doing was EARNING salvation ?.... OR Lest why did Peter Cut off the ear of the Centurian, to Protect Him who would be KING

or maybe after talking to this Rich man, which No Doubt was another Pharisee , or then come to Understand it ..EVEN THINKING THEY GAVE UP ALL THEY HAD....AND ALL Tony is all ,and if all, Then That to would conclude dying to themseves..They hadnt a CLUE

at this stage They were Babes....

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?


Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.


Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,


Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and [thy] mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


Mat 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?


Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me.


Mat 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.


Mat 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.


Mat 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.


Mat 19:25 When his disciples heard [it], they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?


Mat 19:26 But Jesus beheld [them], and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.


Mat 19:27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?


Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel

Taffy, obviously you are too sleepy to think clearly for your post actually proves my point.
The man who was not a disciple was clueless. The disciples were bearing their crosses and so were His disciples. They were dying to their wants to fulfill Christ's needs. They left all, gave up all. They said so themselves. The young man that came to Christ was not a disciple.

Again, Jesus did not have to explain the "take up your cross" to the disciples. They knew what it meant. The outsiders were obviously clueless and were not His disciples.

Jesus explained the wheat and the tares to His disciples but not to the outsiders because He said "Mat 13:11 Now, answering, He said to them that "To you has it been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of the heavens, yet to those it has not been given."

Jesus explained what the cup and the bread were at the last supper. The figure and the actuality. But I'm sure you want to turn the actuality back into another figure just like you did with the wheat and tares.

MM...so They Gave all they HAD but still didnt UNDERSTAND....They understood that Much Peter Cuts the Centurians ear OFF...and thats Dying to self Is it.

Dying to self is the OLD MAN, which is SLAIN at the Cross , we THEN become a NEW MAN, BORN ANEW.

He Told them MANY THINGS THEY didnt UNDERSTAND....That Understanding was to Come later, then such Things would become Clear...

Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

you did say Dying to self  or doesnt one have to lose Life to Gain it


there were a couple OF other veiws given Tony or didnt ya read them?

As for the Richman,. you may just see he HAD MANY RICHES, and conclude from whats written HE had too much PRIDE in the LAW He kept..For its Immpossible to Please God with Out Faith, these were Jews Tony....Lazurus and The RICHMAN

Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

he walks away SORROWFUL

Psa 69:29 But I [am] poor and sorrowful: let thy salvation, O God, set me up on high. 


THe disciples are astounded that This MAN who kept the Law SO well, would gain Nothing.....and your saying they KNEW, to KNOW is to Understand,.....Im afraid much of these lessons were Understood someway down the Line Bud.

[Molly]

"charity"


G26
ἀγάπη
agapē
ag-ah'-pay
From G25; love, that is, affection or benevolence; specifically (plural) a love feast: - (feast of) charity ([-ably]), dear, love.

[Molly]

John 5:20
For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, to your amazement he will show him even greater things than these.

G5368
φιλέω
phileō
fil-eh'-o
From G5384; to be a friend to (fond of [an individual or an object]), that is, have affection for (denoting personal attachment, as a matter of sentiment or feeling; while G25 is wider, embracing especially the judgment and the deliberate assent of the will as a matter of principle, duty and propriety: the two thus stand related very much as G2309 and G1014, or as G2372 and G3563 respectively; the former being chiefly of the heart and the latter of the head); specifically to kiss (as a mark of tenderness): - kiss, love.



This one is agapaō:


John 3:35
The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands.

[rosered]

  wow! thanks Kimmy and  Molly thanks as well  ! 

  its good to see it ! I  thought of this verse.... 12 seesm  that I have read this in Revelation about the rod of Iron .. :thumbsup:

Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.


Psa 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.


Psa 2:8 Ask of me, and I shall give [thee] the heathen [for] thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth [for] thy possession.


Psa 2:9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.


Psa 2:10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.


Psa 2:11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.


Psa 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish [from] the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed [are] all they that put their trust in him.

[reFORMer]

Ok, we have the Spirit of truth, we are baptized into ONE Spirit Since it is the Spirit of truth (and is no lie nor does any lie come from the truth) because God is not a man that He should lie, He cant be of a "lying spirit" because He is True and is Truth.

So if we are not to believe every spirit (given theres lying spirits) and we are told they are not of God then there is more then the ONE Spirit of Truth. Otherwise it wold say "Believe every spirit, test nothing, hearken to all things" and rip out that portion of scripture that says so :grin:

Very good.  I agree.  I'm not suggesting any change to the realities in the outer appendages, the members in particular which we are.  My fingers are opposed to my thumb and vice versa.  They're supposed to be.  That's the experience they ought to undergo.  We must oppose evil spirits and keep ourselves pure with no strange elohim in us.

God could eliminate any wicked spirit whenever He wants.  I assume that He doesn't because He can better realize His purposes with a devil and such like.

Don't rip out any Scripture.  Too many claiming to believe the Bible don't know what it says or what it does not say.  Too much is made up and not there or practically ripped out for them already.  It's a major issue to me.

:cloud9: Hi James; glad you got in the thread........I got a question for you. If all these spirits, including the evil are of that One Spirit, how does that work? I'm not being argumentative here, I can see it possibly being both ways. Are you saying that God created these spirits to provide the contrast for the good, and in that way, they are one spirit? Blessings....

When Jesus says of the Prince of this age having nothing in Him that doesn't mean that Jesus doesn't have anything in the prince of this age.  Jesus didn't even say He wasn't in Him, since "in Him we live and move and have our being."  The victory of the cross and subsequent resurrection is the manifest acts of the being Who is inescapable foundation throughout reality.  "...through [Christ] all exists. "  At the end of Rm 11 it says of God,  "From  Him, through Him, and to Him is the all..."

I used to believe a saying I learned, that, "God is a circle Who's center is everywhere and Who's circumference is nowhere."  But there is a real locus to God.  It is the body of Christ which is entirely summed up and contained in the Head, Jesus.  I tried to explain a little the issue of "one spirit" by comparing it to "one body."  That is not quite so fraught with objection for some reason.

And there is, "One body."  The entire physical universe, its outer manifestation is the realm of embodiment.  The inner travail of all creation is for the glory to be revealed through us to cover the realm of nature with the weight of glory.  We are to, "Not judge according to appearances, but to judge righteous judgment."  It is the higher more enduring substance of Spirit that drives the purpose of it all.  It is by Spirit that all things change or remain the same.

The "one body" is in a naturalistic way perceived by ecological considerations.  Ferguson in his work on "Types and Shadows" points out that the ancient rabbis taught that God would change and glorify the world reasoning that in order for Him to fulfill the promise He made to Abraham would require him to be resurrected and resurrected beings need an appropriate setting in which to act, a glorified world as habitation.

To describe, much less justify, the Oneness of God inclusive of all things seems almost unreachable to me.  You remember, "...to head up the all in the Christ..." (Ep 1:10) is described as, "...the secret (mystery) of His will (in accord with His delight, which He purposed in Him)" (Ep 1:9).  What I'm attempting to express about "the One-ing Spirit" is seen in that to agree with His revealed will and describes an outworking of something that in some way to God already is.  There's a level in God in which not only all is His to survey, nor only that He is upon What all is dependent.  There is more personal and intimate interest in us, certainly than those things which will not remain.  When God brought forth creation, and light would be an example, it was made out of Himself.  He is the Substance of All Form.  The medieval theologians saying God made the world out of nothing meant that there was no material co-existing with Him.  Not just as ultimate destiny (1 Co 15,) but already the apostle sees, "...the all and in all is Christ." (Co 3:11)


Worship the One Who is:

Substance of All Form
Measure of All Relationship
Placer of All Location
Significance of All Expression
Limit of All Duration
Manner of All Change
Standard of All Measure
Point Of All Progress

His name is Jesus!


( from your brother, James Rohde)

[Molly]

14This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his disciples, after that he was risen from the dead.

15So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest [agapaō]
thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love [phileō]
thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.

16He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest [agapaō]
thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love [phileō]
thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

17He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest [phileō]
thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest [phileō]
thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love [phileō]
thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.



20Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved [agapaō] following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?


--John 21

[reFORMer]

I forgot to ask God whether I should post about this topic of "one spirit, one body," though I have mentioned it a couple times.  Maybe I would've just muddled over the idea in isolation.  It's too easily misunderstood.  It's touches the extremes of our understanding.

And about the Greek use of various words for love...it's interesting that English keeps hacking away at it with just one:  LOVE.  I think God is making a point.  The eros in marriage is the agapae of God and those three enjoy phileo:  God, man and woman.  There is not two senses in which the one points allegorically to the other.  In "The Song of Songs" human love is the language of Divine love.  Because there is a theological importance to carnal human love God included that theatrical in Sacred Scripture. We are to understand the sacred and the sexual are one.

"Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it..." (Ep 5:25)

"So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself." (Ep 5:28)

(Thanks in part to professor Daniel Lys in Le plus beau chant de la creation [1968])

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I love what you write James, although I have to read and re-read it several times to grasp some of it. But that's more than ok with me as I love to reach (smile) and stretch, and let Him speak to me about something I myself probably wouldn't have thought about. Blessings to you...

[Taffy]

The eros in marriage is the agapae of God and those three enjoy phileo:

Gee I love it when its easy to understand. :icon_flower:

Nice word James :icon_flower:

[Tony N]

   Tony , I am sorry I am using/ on your  thread  and as far as seeing what Jesus said at face value
 you can do some of that , but for many of Christ  words you cannot take it  that literal  
I  will use this example
 to stay on track here with your quest  ok ? Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.  

 now consider this  Tony , I could  go cut down a tree and drag it  all over the place  looking for Jesus  to follow Him , but where is the literal Jesus at ?     So I could actually and literally follow Him ?

 see   what I mean , interpertation is Key to Spiritual understanding what the WORD/SPIRIT is saying to us all

If it were that easy  I would do it!  cut down a tree and drag it all over  town and look for Jesus to follow , its not  that simple bro? see what I am trying to say in so many words?
 peace , no one   sees Jesus after the flesh anylonger , we are to not even  see one another that way either  ,  because we will see the  wrong way


  for eal so many would admire my trying or even think i be a nut case ,  but what would God do for me if I  went around looking for Jesus to follow  like that ?

Now that is a great post rosered. Since Jesus never explained what "cross" meant as He did most of his other sayings, I would take it to mean that it did not need explained. The disciples knew it meant dying to oneself for what the Lord wanted. If one was unable to do so then they should not be His disciples.

Just where would I find that in the scrips  Tony.

They didnt Understand a Thing about Dying to Self , they Thought  what they were doing was EARNING salvation ?.... OR Lest why did Peter Cut off the ear of the Centurian, to Protect Him who would be KING

or maybe after talking to this Rich man, which No Doubt was another Pharisee , or then come to Understand it ..EVEN THINKING THEY GAVE UP ALL THEY HAD....AND ALL Tony is all ,and if all, Then That to would conclude dying to themseves..They hadnt a CLUE

at this stage They were Babes....

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?


Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.


Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,


Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and [thy] mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


Mat 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?


Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go [and] sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come [and] follow me.


Mat 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.


Mat 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.


Mat 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.


Mat 19:25 When his disciples heard [it], they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?


Mat 19:26 But Jesus beheld [them], and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.


Mat 19:27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?


Mat 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel

Taffy, obviously you are too sleepy to think clearly for your post actually proves my point.
The man who was not a disciple was clueless. The disciples were bearing their crosses and so were His disciples. They were dying to their wants to fulfill Christ's needs. They left all, gave up all. They said so themselves. The young man that came to Christ was not a disciple.

Again, Jesus did not have to explain the "take up your cross" to the disciples. They knew what it meant. The outsiders were obviously clueless and were not His disciples.

Jesus explained the wheat and the tares to His disciples but not to the outsiders because He said "Mat 13:11 Now, answering, He said to them that "To you has it been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of the heavens, yet to those it has not been given."

Jesus explained what the cup and the bread were at the last supper. The figure and the actuality. But I'm sure you want to turn the actuality back into another figure just like you did with the wheat and tares.

MM...so They Gave all they HAD but still didnt UNDERSTAND....They understood that Much Peter Cuts the Centurians ear OFF...and thats Dying to self Is it.

Dying to self is the OLD MAN, which is SLAIN at the Cross , we THEN become a NEW MAN, BORN ANEW.

He Told them MANY THINGS THEY didnt UNDERSTAND....That Understanding was to Come later, then such Things would become Clear...

Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

you did say Dying to self  or doesnt one have to lose Life to Gain it


there were a couple OF other veiws given Tony or didnt ya read them?

As for the Richman,. you may just see he HAD MANY RICHES, and conclude from whats written HE had too much PRIDE in the LAW He kept..For its Immpossible to Please God with Out Faith, these were Jews Tony....Lazurus and The RICHMAN

Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

he walks away SORROWFUL

Psa 69:29 But I [am] poor and sorrowful: let thy salvation, O God, set me up on high. 


THe disciples are astounded that This MAN who kept the Law SO well, would gain Nothing.....and your saying they KNEW, to KNOW is to Understand,.....Im afraid much of these lessons were Understood someway down the Line Bud.

Taffy, you are confusing the facts and building your case on that.
For instance the Christ said the personal bearing of one's cross was what was needed to be a disciple.

Mat 10:38 And he who is not taking his cross and following after Me is not worthy of Me.
If you remember, that is what the person in this thread originally brought up was about the cross and what it meant.

Now you bring up another whole different matter concerning the doing of the law. The young man with much possessions asked what he needed to do to have eonian life (Matt.19:16). And Jesus tells him to do the law. The kids says he does it all. Then Jesus says to him to sell all he has and give to the poor and follow Him. We are talking about figures of speech here, Taffy, in case you forgot. There are no figures of speech in the dialogue between Jesus and the rich kid.

The figure of speech I was addressing was about the disciples need for taking their cross and following after Christ. That figure obviously was well enough known to them or they would have asked Him what it meant like they did when He spoke to the populace in parables.

[Tony N]

Also, friends, can we keep to the topic concerning Natural and Spiritual and figures of speech?

You are hijacking this thread with your chit chat of other things.

Blessings.

Tony

[Taffy]

Taffy, you are confusing the facts and building your case on that.
For instance the Christ said the personal bearing of one's cross was what was needed to be a disciple.

Mat 10:38 And he who is not taking his cross and following after Me is not worthy of Me.
If you remember, that is what the person in this thread originally brought up was about the cross and what it meant.

Now you bring up another whole different matter concerning the doing of the law. The young man with much possessions asked what he needed to do to have eonian life (Matt.19:16). And Jesus tells him to do the law. The kids says he does it all. Then Jesus says to him to sell all he has and give to the poor and follow Him. We are talking about figures of speech here, Taffy, in case you forgot. There are no figures of speech in the dialogue between Jesus and the rich kid.

The figure of speech I was addressing was about the disciples need for taking their cross and following after Christ. That figure obviously was well enough known to them or they would have asked Him what it meant like they did when He spoke to the populace in parables.

THE fact was..dying to self, your words Tony or have you forgot...capish :laughing7:
that was the Point I was Making.....They disciples were babes , Sons In the Making

The lesson was for the Disciples , For many are CALLED but few are Chosen , using one of their High Ranked Kinsmen in doing so....but me thinks maybe you dont see it.....for indeed they were Chosen

T

[Taffy]

Also, friends, can we keep to the topic concerning Natural and Spiritual and figures of speech?

You are hijacking this thread with your chit chat of other things.

Blessings.

Tony

By all means Tony :icon_flower:

[Tony N]

The point is, Taffy is we are talking about figures of speech and how some turn those figures into other figures and think what they've said is "spiritual."

The person brought up Christ telling the disciples to take up their cross. They had to do that to be His disciples.
The rich young punk was not asking what was needed to be His disciple but what was needed to attain to eonian life. There were no figures used in what He said to the punk.
Jesus never told the young punk to pick up his cross and so die to himself. That was for the disciples.

Now can we keep with the topic?

Do you have any other figures of speech besides "cross," "tares" and "wheat" for this topic?

Love,

tony

[Taffy]

The point is, Taffy is we are talking about figures of speech and how some turn those figures into other figures and think what they've said is "spiritual."

The person brought up Christ telling the disciples to take up their cross. They had to do that to be His disciples.
The rich young punk was not asking what was needed to be His disciple but what was needed to attain to eonian life. There were no figures used in what He said to the punk.
Jesus never told the young punk to pick up his cross and so die to himself. That was for the disciples.

Now can we keep with the topic?

Do you have any other figures of speech besides "cross," "tares" and "wheat" for this topic?

Love,

tony

Does Tony stand for Teflon  :icon_king:
no ,the Point of me coming back to the thread( for as I mentioned early I was donee with it) was your Comment on DYING to self..you stated They Knew what It was....which Obviously they DIDNT.

and then you go do what you always done,,can we please START agin..well no Tony Not this time.

:icon_flower:

[Taffy]

Tony  :icon_flower:
Im done with this Thread bro....

Im  off back too sharing .......

No offence bro,... :HeartThrob:
Every blessing

Taffy

[bobf]

Tony,

How do you know Christ's explanation of the wheat & tares was literal & plain?
How can a kingdom literally have children?
How can Satan literally have children?  Serpent seed doctrine?
Will unbelievers literally be burned in a literal furnace of literal fire?  Is a lake a furnace?
How would removing unbelievers from the midst of the faithful uproot the faithful?
If Jesus was speaking plainly then why did He say "Who hath ears to hear, let him hear"?

Galatians 4:24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

If you were a contemporary of Paul and reading the words for the first time, what would keep you from criticizing Paul for allegorizing a literal historical account?