Natural and Spiritual

[Molly]

Will somebody please answer my question--

Does man have his own spirit?  Or is spirit something extraneous which enters man, whether it be the Spirit of Christ/God or the spirit of demons?

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9:  Well, Martin as pertaining to the message, I too have been reflecting on that of late. It's clear we don't have the PURE undefiled content and intent of the Spirit, or things would have culminated already.

I personally think what's happening is He is refining by revelation just what exactly the doctrine of Christ actually is, after it has been smothered by 2000 years of denominational choke holds, assumptions, deliberate deletions, and traditions of men. Just when you think you have some kind of handle on it (speaking for myself here), He reveals something different that sets you on your ear, er, knees again. Blessings....

[Nathan]

Cardinal, great response, and I absolutely feel the same way.

Molly, personally, I would say what you have is yours, given by God.

[martincisneros]

Does man have his own spirit?

Yes, he does 'cause the Word divides between spirit and soul.  Absolutely nothing else does.  We're to be renewed in the spirit of our mind.  Ecclesiastes says that the spirit of man returns to God.  Fruit of the spirit is the fruit of your own recreated spirit being nurtured with the Word of God.  Does all of the same stuff as the gifts of the Spirit in 1Corinthians 12 if you're really to the point of harvesting your fruit at different seasons of your life.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Actually, this is something Molly and I have been discussing and I'd like to talk about it. I normally don't bring things to the table until He has "fleshed" them out for me, so let me be the first to say I don't understand the ins and outs of this. It started with something He spoke to me while I was studying, which was, that He was getting ready to take our breath away (to replace it with His?), and what came was that it was to give up the ghost (but not literally), and that the ghost was the spirit of Adam.

I feel that this has something to do with our glorified bodies being manifested, and I know there is revelation in there. As I said, I don't "get" it all (maybe I'm not supposed to yet), but I know His voice and it was enough to put me face down on the floor. Thoughts, anyone? (please refrain from picking up stones, my tired old bones can't take it  :winkgrin:)
Blessings.....

[Molly]

Does man have his own spirit?

Yes, he does 'cause the Word divides between spirit and soul.  Absolutely nothing else does.  We're to be renewed in the spirit of our mind.  Ecclesiastes says that the spirit of man returns to God.  Fruit of the spirit is the fruit of your own recreated spirit being nurtured with the Word of God.  Does all of the same stuff as the gifts of the Spirit in 1Corinthians 12 if you're really to the point of harvesting your fruit at different seasons of your life.

well, but but

Maybe the sword dividing spirit and soul is him redeeming us from an evil spirit.

And it is my soul that is being renewed, isn't it?  He restoreth my soul

The fruit of the Spirit, and the gifts,  comes from the Holy Spirit, not my own.

And, so forth...

I believe Adam had spirit because he was given the breath of God, but Eve did not, which is why she was easily deceived.

Remember Jesus breathes on the disciples and tells them to receive the Holy Spirit before Pentecost...

It would explain why those Israelites could never keep a thought in their heads for two days--out of sight, out of mind, and let's build a golden calf...

[Cardinal]

It would explain why those Israelites could never keep a thought in their heads for two days--out of sight, out of mind, and let's build a golden calf...

I laughed out loud on this one........ain't it the truth? And it sure applies to us trying to do things in our own strength too, doesn't it? Blessings....

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Back to the topic at hand, I always took that as the sword dividing the soul and HIS Spirit asunder. Blessings....

[Molly]

:cloud9: Back to the topic at hand, I always took that as the sword dividing the soul and HIS Spirit asunder. Blessings....

If divide means separate, why would he want to separate our soul from His spirit? :mshock:

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

"dividing"

G3311
μερισμός
merismos
mer-is-mos'
From G3307; a separation or distribution: - dividing asunder, gift.

[Molly]

Will somebody please answer my question--

Does man have his own spirit?  Or is spirit something extraneous which enters man, whether it be the Spirit of Christ/God or the spirit of demons?

I know HIS Spirit testifies to OUR Spirit, so yes I see we have our own spirit wouldnt you think?

Could I see the fine print on that?

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Well, a better way to explain it might be, to separate the soulish things of us from His Spirit. It is like the circumcision of Abraham in that the soulish things of the flesh are separated from His Spirit. Put on the fire, it becomes cleansed/purified like the chaste virgin soul Fire was talking about. Blessings....

[Molly]

Will somebody please answer my question--

Does man have his own spirit?  Or is spirit something extraneous which enters man, whether it be the Spirit of Christ/God or the spirit of demons?

I know HIS Spirit testifies to OUR Spirit, so yes I see we have our own spirit wouldnt you think?

Could I see the fine print on that?

Nevermind.  I found it.

Romans 8:16
The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.


But that word is 'pneuma'  and that word could mean soul.


[our]"spirit"

G4151
πνεῦμα
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: I'm telling you, everything we ASSUMED is being shaken right now. I'm looking hard at everything, asking myself just what do I believe and did it come from inspiration of the Spirit or something I heard way back and accepted. I want HIS Truth, no fairy tales of men, I want the PURE WORD, uncorrupted by men's minds, including my own, if by any means by the grace of God I can receive it. Blessings....

[Taffy]

Will somebody please answer my question--

Does man have his own spirit?  Or is spirit something extraneous which enters man, whether it be the Spirit of Christ/God or the spirit of demons?

I know HIS Spirit testifies to OUR Spirit, so yes I see we have our own spirit wouldnt you think?

Could I see the fine print on that?

Nevermind.  I found it.

Romans 8:16
The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children.


But that word is 'pneuma'  and that word could mean soul.


[our]"spirit"

G4151
πνεῦμα
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.

Molly

Soul and spirit for me are synonymous,...The Life giving SPIRIT of US ,the First Adam , our corrupted soul( heart and Mind) is temporary, tis Renewed with the TRUE LIFE ZOE spirit\soul, heart and Mind which is TRUE LIFE....

[Molly]

So do we have two pneumas or one?   :grin: Cause one who is joined with the Lord is ONE Spirit right?

Here we go with the "one, twos, threes" being one!  :grin:

Yes one spirit--His.

1 Corinthians 6:17
But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

hmm that word is also pneuma...

But then if we have a spirit, what happened to it?


Remember when Jonathan and David had their souls knitted together?  Why didn't it say their spirits were knitted together?  

[Taffy]

So do we have two pneumas or one?   :grin: Cause one who is joined with the Lord is ONE Spirit right?

Here we go with the "one, twos, threes" being one!  :grin:

yehaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[rosered]

  I am also in agreement .. :thumbsup:   blessings  :HeartThrob:

 body , soul and Spirit complete in Him .. :HeartThrob:
 

[Cardinal]

1Th 5:23 -
   And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

:cloud9: Here we go.....and there are others in the OT even speaking of spirit AND soul.

[Taffy]

 I am also in agreement .. :thumbsup:   blessings  :HeartThrob:

 body , soul and Spirit complete in Him .. :HeartThrob:
 

:icon_flower:

[Sarah]

What I find interesting is that when Matthew chapters 24 and 25 are brought up people dance all around those passages and say they should be taken spiritually. In other words, the tares stand for our flesh and the wheat for us as well. Lightning isn't really lightning and Christ's return isn't really Christ's return.

I just read Mathew 24 and 25 to see what you were talking about. Are you suggesting that if a person doesn't see these events as future that they are suffering from unbelief? Your comment here seems mean-spirited. I too am trying the best I can to understand things, and to say that if I have a different eschalogical viewpoint than your own that I have 'unbelief' seems condescending.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Ok, again, we have a spirit, the OT writers spoke of having a spirit. The first Adam was a living soul. I guess the question for me is, did a spirit of Adam transfer down through the generations, just like our DNA? I know He showed me years ago about generational curses transferring through evil spirits, but what if there's something else? If He rolled the waters of death all the way back to Adam, and waters can speak of that which is of the spirits not of Him......Anybody? Blessings....

[Molly]

1Th 5:23 -
   And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

:cloud9: Here we go.....and there are others in the OT even speaking of spirit AND soul.

Ok, but isn't he saying this to people who have the Holy Spirit?




"spirit"

G4151
πνεῦμα
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.



"soul"

G5590
ψυχή
psuchē
psoo-khay'
From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315], [H7307] and [H2416]: - heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.


"body"

G4983
σῶμα
sōma
so'-mah
From G4982; the body (as a sound whole), used in a very wide application, literally or figuratively: - bodily, body, slave.

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: Yes, He is......but in the OT they speak of having a spirit, and they didn't have the HS as we do, except in a few isolated instances.

[rosered]

1Th 5:23 -
   And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

:cloud9: Here we go.....and there are others in the OT even speaking of spirit AND soul.

Ok, but isn't he saying this to people who have the Holy Spirit?




"spirit"

G4151
πνεῦμα
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.



"soul"

G5590
ψυχή
psuchē
psoo-khay'
From G5594; breath, that is, (by implication) spirit, abstractly or concretely (the animal sentient principle only; thus distinguished on the one hand from G4151, which is the rational and immortal soul; and on the other from G2222, which is mere vitality, even of plants: these terms thus exactly correspond respectively to the Hebrew [H5315], [H7307] and [H2416]: - heart (+ -ily), life, mind, soul, + us, + you.


"body"

G4983
σῶμα
sōma
so'-mah
From G4982; the body (as a sound whole), used in a very wide application, literally or figuratively: - bodily, body, slave.

thanks Molly ,  perfect /complete Strong's G5046 - teleios τέλειος
Transliteration
teleios
Pronunciation

te'-lā-os (Key)

Part of Speech
adjective

Root Word (Etymology)

from G5056

TDNT Reference
8:67,1161
Vines
View Entry


Outline of Biblical Usage 1) brought to its end, finished

2) wanting nothing necessary to completeness

3) perfect

4) that which is perfect

a) consummate human integrity and virtue

b) of men

1) full grown, adult, of full age, mature


Jam 3:2 For in many things we offend all.

 If any man offend not in word,

the same [is] a perfect man,

 [and] able also to bridle the whole body.  :thumbsup:

 I believe  the body is last ?
 Spirit and than soul .   these can be divided asunder
Strong's G3311 - merismos μερισμός
Transliteration
merismos
Pronunciation

me-rē-smo's (Key)

Part of Speech
masculine noun

Root Word (Etymology)

from G3307

TDNT Reference
n/a
Vines
View Entry


Outline of Biblical Usage 1) a division, partition

a) distribution (of various kinds)

2) a separation

a) so far as to cleave asunder or separate

 what would that make  one like ?
  :mshock:

[Cardinal]

 :cloud9: So if the spirit of man was the same as God's spirit then it too would know the things of God, yes? But we don't, so....