Can you explain?

[Roy Monis]

[
I would politely reject it, and ask if they had spiced rum and diet coke instead. I get migraines from beer.

it's the grain in the beer

my grain

:grin:

Good answers SOtW and Laren, better than the ones I thought.

Have a nice, jolly day and don't get drunk, lemonade does some strange things.

Peace!(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll68/roymonis/4953591.gif)

Roy   UK

[laren]

Hi roy  :happygrin:

you have not offended me at all, i'm not sure why u would think that from my post.  Disagree, yes;

Honoring our FATHER has nothing to do with capitializing his name.  That in my opinion is religion .

It is all a heart condition.  Now I respect that for you, you express your heart through capitalizing a word.  But to infer that if one doesn't capitalize the word He in reference to God; that they are not honoring God is again imo; religion.  And religion like that; sickens my stomach; literally.

[Taffy]

.  But to infer that if one doesn't capitalize the word He in reference to God; that they are not honoring God is again imo; religion.  And religion like that; sickens my stomach; literally.

sorta makes me feel a litle Like this Laren...ya just experience freedom THEN:-(http://deephousepage.com/smilies/splat.gif)

[Roy Monis]

..you have left your first love.

Isn't that what Adam did?

Where are you? (Gen 3)

Yes Molly that is so, he didn't just leave, he went a runnin as they say without any pants on. Nathan is in danger of doing the same if he keeps asking about beer and lemonade.

Peace!(http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll68/roymonis/4953591.gif)

Roy   UK

[Nathan]

Roy, Roy, Roy . . .what to do with you . . .
First, you sound like Adam's woman . . .before she was named Eve . . .as the serpent was testing her knowledge of what was said . . .God never said that you could not touch the tree, he just said not to eat of it . . . I never said anything about lemonade . . .I said beer or mixed drinks.

And I must say, I'm pleasantly surprised at the answers . . . perhaps, the question should have been in reverse . . . if someone of reputation did you a favor and if you heard a voice in you suggesting you repay them with a 6-pack of beer . . . would you do it or rebuke the voice within you?

Yeah, there is a reason for my asking.  I  . . . My . . . Not sure how to word this . . . being brought up under strict religious enforcement, I know what it's like to be bound by the very thing that was intended to set people free.  We used Scriptures to prove why everyone was going to hell and why we should live a particular life-style.  We were not allowed to watch tv . . .which raised quite a stir in our house because we lived out in the boonies pretty much . .and there wasn't much of a social life happening and my Mom got her relief from watching the tube . . .much inner fighting in my early years . .eventually, Mom won out, but it took years. 

At any rate, since I've been led out of that bondage, I've found that there are still many issues in my life that continually need to be purged and purified.  So even though we do walk on a happier road, I'm still very much aware that growth and change are continual.  So when I see some of the comments that people interject . . . it makes me wonder just how free some people are.

For example, in our study last night . . .I was enjoying what God was showing us as we were moving through the book of Revelation  . . .pretty fast to . .about 4 verses an hour!!!  And I was saying something, don't remember what the point was now, but I inserted a slang word . . ."freakin'" and man, people just went haywire.  "Oh, Pastor!!  Wash your mouth out with soap!!  We don't talk like that!  You should know better your a Pastor!  On and on . . .  it occurred to me, no matter how much we "think" we are in the spirit, there is still much flesh in us that manifests by reflex, more than we care to admit.

But I couldn't help but think of how Roy feels about capitalizing pronouns . . . I then took the rest of the time we had and went back to emphasizing that regardless of whether I think someone is living in sin . . . just how much closer am I bringing them to God be approaching them and instructing or advising them how "I see" they should change.  Are we not "seated" at the right hand of the Father in "heavenly" places?

That isn't supposed to be a temporary position.  I'm sitting until I see someone else who is not in aligment with my standards . . .then I need to "get up" and straighten them out.  If I'm spending all my time convicting others . . .what's the Holy Spirit supposed to do then?  Isn't that "His" job?

I asked that question about the beer because that's usually a touchy one for those who are still in a religious cycle.  And that's again why I'm surprised that there seems to be some resistance toward the idea of revelating with people on this forum.  You seem to be able to see somethings that can only be seen from a spiritual plain . . .such as UR . .that is made known to us only by way of God revealing it to us.  Otherwise, if we were totally and wholly fundamentalists, we'd be just as strong about ET as the others.

It takes much more grace and faith to believe UR than it does ET.  And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that . . .the ONLY way you can please God is by FAITH.  What is faith again?  It's believing in what can't be seen, accepting what can't be understood.  Those who embrace the literal written word aren't walking in faith, they're walking by sight.  Those that see the spiritual truth beneath the surface of what's written are the ones walking in faith.

Two birds with one stone here . .

Molly, the first thing I would do, if I were the one counceling the young man, would be to tell him, I'm going to lay the Bible aside for just a moment and let's talk about what's real "to the young man".  I'm not saying I don't believe the Bible is real, I'm saying that people receive so much more when they see you setting your religious badge aside.  Personally, I believe your decription of the man's acivity is wrong . . .but . . . When you live according to right and wrong, you are walking in the tree of knowledge of good and evil . .not in life

When people's lives are falling apart, the last thing they need is for me to tell them . . ."Dude . . .you're so messed up!"  What they need is, someone that is oblivious to the obvious and just love on them.  My advice to them would be to just take a minute and do a quick evaluation of their situation . .ask them what their priorities are . . .does he really care about his wife, does he want to remain a part of this family . . . But telling him that it's all his fault and he needs to straigten up and act responsible, that's natural reasoning talking . .what he needs is true Love to intervene.

I can't manifest God's love while pushing my own agenda at the same time.

[Roy Monis]

Roy, are you aware of the passage that speaks about those being in outer darkness and they argued "but we cast out demons in your name . .we prophesied in your name . . ." on and on but the response simply was "depart from me I never knew you . . ."  The church in Revelation . .to me . . .is this same group.  Their identity was more in their ministry to remove tares than to plant wheat.

To look at it the traditional way . . .what you're saying then is . .no matter how good you are, Jesus will always find something wrong with you . . .I just don't see that way anymore.  I think Jesus was leading up to the fact that they lost their first love, by identifying what they gave that first love up for . . .it was their works . . their concern to prove that everyone else was false and they were right.  We've said all along, for those who walk in the spirit . . .it's not about right or wrong . . .its about being as One.

The other comment about sounding familiar was a cheap shot on my part . . .I was not in the best of moods yesterday, I apologize for that.  I need to do a better job at keeping those kinds of things in check.  :sigh:

Hi! Nathan

No need for the apology brother, we are all human, but it sounded nice, thank you.

Now regarding the passage that you're wondering whether I'm aware of it, I presume you mean this one; "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness." (Matt.7:21-23).

Yes! Brother I'm aware of it. What this is telling me is very simple and both you and I have obeyed that call; "I heard another voice from heaven, saying, "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues; for her sins have piled up as high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities."  Rev.18:4-5).

Was it not Babylon who preached the gospel (false), prophesied, spoke in tongues, worked miracles, and said Lord! Lord! and is it not those who proclaim a false created christ also among them who say; Lord! Lord! (did we not worship the wrong christ  :laughing7: :laughing7: :laughing7:). Is it not those heretics and blasphemers to whom He is saying, I never knew you, depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness?

You are right, it is as you say, they are the ones who have left their First Love and fallen from grace. Literally they believe they are on the narrow road but spiritually they are on the broad one that leads to destruction, even lower down the scale than Saddam because "For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, "A dog returns to its own vomit," and, "A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire" ("Pet.2:20-22) their present state is worse than it was at first before they knew the Truth.

Now the Lord has sent them a deep delusion, where they will believe the false and reject the Truth. "For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness."
(2Thess.2:11-12).

Peace!

Roy   UK(http://dl8.glitter-graphics.net/pub/206/206938s9pnr6xz6d.gif)

[Molly]

Yeah, there is a reason for my asking.  I  . . . My . . . Not sure how to word this . . . being brought up under strict religious enforcement, I know what it's like to be bound by the very thing that was intended to set people free.  We used Scriptures to prove why everyone was going to hell and why we should live a particular life-style.  We were not allowed to watch tv . . .which raised quite a stir in our house because we lived out in the boonies pretty much . .and there wasn't much of a social life happening and my Mom got her relief from watching the tube . . .much inner fighting in my early years . .eventually, Mom won out, but it took years. 

That's interesting.  I grew up with total freedom, running through the fields barefoot, with the wolves.  Not wild, but wind in your hair freedom.  All things were possible but not all things were beneficial.  I knew this at a very young age. I learned it body surfing during a hurricane. I knew Jesus and his love before the age of five.  I didn't  know about Hell--my church didn't mention it-- until I went away to school and read Dante.  Then, I thought--this guy has some weird problems.  Somehow I lucked out, knowing love and freedom at such a young age.  So don't think I don't understand what you are saying--freedom is in my bones. God himself put it there and raised me on it.  My milk was freedom.

But it was only possible because the adults were acting so responsibly...

So don't think I take responsibility as a burden, --I don't need to search out freedom, I breathe it--I know his yoke is easy and his burden is light.  I want to give back what was given to me.

[Taffy]

I didn't  know about Hell--my church didn't mention it-- until I went away to school and read Dante.  Then, I thought--this guy has some weird problems

hey Molly get the lemonade out...then puor me a southern comfort :laughing7:

to this I agree whole heartedly(http://deephousepage.com/smilies/party_06.gif)

[Molly]

I didn't  know about Hell--my church didn't mention it-- until I went away to school and read Dante.  Then, I thought--this guy has some weird problems

hey Molly get the lemonade out...then puor me a southern comfort :laughing7:

to this I agree whole heartedly(http://deephousepage.com/smilies/party_06.gif)

I'm actually wondering if the church paid him to write that.  It would make an interesting study.

No one could be that insane--having those visions and walking the streets.

[Taffy]

No one could be that insane--having those visions and walking the streets.

arh..that HEART is deceitful  above alll things.....probably didnt need paying ..just saw it as Justice, one can only say these things in ignorance, not Knowing Christ lies in the hearts of all men, be it a fact hes hidden from MANY.

[Molly]

No one could be that insane--having those visions and walking the streets.

arh..that HEART is deceitful  above alll things.....probably didnt need paying ..just saw it as Justice, one can only say these things in ignorance, not Knowing Christ lies in the hearts of all men, be it a fact hes hidden from MANY.

I'm serious.  If you look closely at the practices of the catholic church, you see them doing everything they can to control people.  They were the first to discover that church is big business and people can be controlled by fear.  I bet he was commissioned to write that.  It's too contrived--speaking of deceitful.

[Nathan]

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if what you feel were to be true.  But even so, it's been so instilled in the traditional church for so long . . . People have spent so much time and effort in their lives, shoring up this belief system that it would literally take a miracle of God to tear it down . . .which by the way, I do believe it will happen . . .one final shaking as Hebrews speaks of.

[Roy Monis]

I think you are taking the right approach since the job of teenagers is to push against their parents--sometimes, the harder you push, the harder they push back.  You seem to be dealing with it very wisely, and in a moderate fashion.

But, the one I asked this question of is a pastor.  And, I asked the question about adults.

all born 18 months apart..two boys and Two girls.


as the Your question is posed to Nathan then for sure let Him answer,,but sis, I too have one also,,..Nat first .

Hi! Taffy

Congratulations! You're taking the right course with the teenies, they are naturally a rebellious lot, I was the same and so were you and you can't tell me any different. I am the father of a son who is a grandfather with two sons of his own. He was a rebellious bounder as well.

One of his school habits was spitting on the street and watching if anyone noticed. When I asked where he learned that filthy habit? He replied, "Oh Jimmie clever clots, he does it and it's great." "Now that's really clever, if he's as good as that with his school work, he'll be top of the class I should imagine?" I said. "Is he heck as like, he hardly ever shows up at school, they're always chasing after him, he's always in trouble." came the reply " That really does sound good, and you want to be like that I imagine, you'll soon be getting chased as well." The spitting stopped brother.

A neighbour came and reported that he and his two mates were smoking round the corner, nosey neighbour, but well meaning. So I goes round and hauls the three in, sits them on the settee and gives each one (I used to smoke then myself, bad boy) a cigar and I kept them company and explained that I had no objection to him smoking but I'd rather him do it in the house than round street corners for all the neighbours to see. We lit up and all four of us had a real good time for about an hour, then and then it took effect, all three were as sick as a parrot and wonders will never cease, they all three stopped smoking.

I never went against his wishes, no I always went along with him and somehow it worked. Praise the Lord! God is good!           

You're right on track brother and I pray it works out for you and your better half as well.

Peace!(http://dl8.glitter-graphics.net/pub/206/206938s9pnr6xz6d.gif)

Roy

[Molly]

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if what you feel were to be true.  But even so, it's been so instilled in the traditional church for so long . . . People have spent so much time and effort in their lives, shoring up this belief system that it would literally take a miracle of God to tear it down . . .which by the way, I do believe it will happen . . .one final shaking as Hebrews speaks of.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.   Last night I was reading about how the three translators of the Geneva Bible were burned at the stake, and all those Bibles confiscated and burned.  It was a death sentence to be caught with that Bible.   The church did everything they could do to keep the New Testament out of the hands of people who could read it in their own language.  Why is that so threatening, you might ask?  

Because if there is only one mediator between man and God--Christ, and if being made free by the Son, you are free indeed, and if we are justified by faith alone--that's bad for business.

Christ warned us about this--and it happened just as he said it would.

[Taffy]

I'm serious.  If you look closely at the practices of the catholic church, you see them doing everything they can to control people.  They were the first to discover that church is big business and people can be controlled by fear.  I bet he was commissioned to write that.  It's too contrived--speaking of deceitful.

Coming from a Church which I know were controlling, nothing surprises me thesedays with what happens with many denominations..be it the Catholics or not....but Dante is up there with the best of them

[Roy Monis]

" 'A son honors his father, and a servant his master. Then if I am a father, where is My honor? And if I am a master, where is My respect?' says the Lord of hosts to you, O priests who despise My name. But you say, 'How have we despised Your name?' "You are presenting defiled food upon My altar. But you say, 'How have we defiled You?' In that you say, 'The table of the Lord is to be despised.' "But when you present the blind for sacrifice, is it not evil? And when you present the lame and sick, is it not evil? Why not offer it to your governor? Would he be pleased with you? Or would he receive you kindly?" says the Lord of hosts. "But now will you not entreat God's favor, that He may be gracious to us? With such an offering on your part, will He receive any of you kindly?" says the Lord of hosts."

Bro Roy, I do deeply agree with Both Laren and Nathan , and your quote from Malachi has nothing to do with what Both proposed.

The Rebuke were to the Priests for ROBBING the storehouses , using poor quality produce for the temple and sacrifices...which were symbolic of Christ...they indeed ,were keeping the Best for themselves , therefore bringing DISHONOR to God .

It really has nothing to do with capping Pronouns bro....BUT if you find me a scripture which states this otherwise...i may reconsider...

for mine, its all to MUCH religion and MANS attempt TO BE RIGHTEOUS...WHICH WE both KNOW , self - righteousness is but filthy rags bro..so I have get my gun down..and shoot you OK :laughing7: :laughing7:      (http://deephousepage.com/smilies/AR15firing.gif)

Hi! Laren and Nathan

Taffy has spoken! I have been nitpicking and I'm awfully sorry, please forgive me for picking nits they're  playing havoc with my constitution. Please yourself whether you cap or decap, we'll start minding our own business for a change. If I become self-righteous I won't need Taffy to shoot me  :robinhood: I'll shoot myself  :Shoot:

Peace!(http://dl2.glitter-graphics.net/pub/531/531092obq4tfxk6k.gif)

Roy   UK

[Molly]

1Behold, the LORD's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:

2But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

3For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered perverseness.

4None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity.

5They hatch cockatrice' eggs, and weave the spider's web: he that eateth of their eggs dieth, and that which is crushed breaketh out into a viper.

6Their webs shall not become garments, neither shall they cover themselves with their works: their works are works of iniquity, and the act of violence is in their hands.

7Their feet run to evil, and they make haste to shed innocent blood: their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity; wasting and destruction are in their paths.

8The way of peace they know not; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace.

9Therefore is judgment far from us, neither doth justice overtake us: we wait for light, but behold obscurity; for brightness, but we walk in darkness.

10We grope for the wall like the blind, and we grope as if we had no eyes: we stumble at noon day as in the night; we are in desolate places as dead men.

11We roar all like bears, and mourn sore like doves: we look for judgment, but there is none; for salvation, but it is far off from us.

12For our transgressions are multiplied before thee, and our sins testify against us: for our transgressions are with us; and as for our iniquities, we know them;

13In transgressing and lying against the LORD, and departing away from our God, speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and uttering from the heart words of falsehood.

14And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.

15Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.

16And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.

17For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloak.

18According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompence.

19So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.

20And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.

21As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

--Isa 59

[Roy Monis]

No one could be that insane--having those visions and walking the streets.

arh..that HEART is deceitful  above alll things.....probably didnt need paying ..just saw it as Justice, one can only say these things in ignorance, not Knowing Christ lies in the hearts of all men, be it a fact hes hidden from MANY.

I'm serious.  If you look closely at the practices of the catholic church, you see them doing everything they can to control people.  They were the first to discover that church is big business and people can be controlled by fear.  I bet he was commissioned to write that.  It's too contrived--speaking of deceitful.

Hi! Molly
You're right, the hell business all started with the Catholic Church, I have all the evidence somewhere in my files, I'll have to look it up and post it. Fear was the only way people could be made to toe the line and the Catholic Church under Emperor Constantine made sure of that.
Yes, there is no one wealthier than the Church of Rome. :Shoot:

Peace!

Roy   UK

[Roy Monis]

1Behold, the LORD's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:

2But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

3For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered perverseness.

4None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity.

5They hatch cockatrice' eggs, and weave the spider's web: he that eateth of their eggs dieth, and that which is crushed breaketh out into a viper.

6Their webs shall not become garments, neither shall they cover themselves with their works: their works are works of iniquity, and the act of violence is in their hands.

7Their feet run to evil, and they make haste to shed innocent blood: their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity; wasting and destruction are in their paths.

8The way of peace they know not; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace.

9Therefore is judgment far from us, neither doth justice overtake us: we wait for light, but behold obscurity; for brightness, but we walk in darkness.

10We grope for the wall like the blind, and we grope as if we had no eyes: we stumble at noon day as in the night; we are in desolate places as dead men.

11We roar all like bears, and mourn sore like doves: we look for judgment, but there is none; for salvation, but it is far off from us.

12For our transgressions are multiplied before thee, and our sins testify against us: for our transgressions are with us; and as for our iniquities, we know them;

13In transgressing and lying against the LORD, and departing away from our God, speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and uttering from the heart words of falsehood.

14And judgment is turned away backward, and justice standeth afar off: for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter.

15Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment.

16And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him.

17For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloak.

18According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompence.

19So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.

20And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.

21As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith the LORD; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith the LORD, from henceforth and for ever.

--Isa 59

What on earth is all this about, Molly. Please explain! The armour of God, that was for Taffy and his Mrs not you, because they need it with four teenagers. You're happy without teens to worry about, I'm assuming, like me and we're quite happy with our freedom indeed. Poor Taffy!
I think a little prayer for them would be in order.
Like this little cherub[(http://dl10.glitter-graphics.net/pub/948/948060jo4m3gvnnu.gif)Peace!

Roy   UK

[Taffy]

The armour of God, that was for Taffy and his Mrs not you, because they need it with four teenagers. You're happy without teens to worry about, I'm assuming, like me and we're quite happy with our freedom indeed

Why thanks Roy , for sure my wife would appreciate it....hey ,I always see the CUP half full and not Half empty,..so it could be worse, we could have 8 teenagers.. :laughing7:

[Roy Monis]

Roy, Roy, Roy . . .what to do with you . . .
First, you sound like Adam's woman . . .before she was named Eve . . .as the serpent was testing her knowledge of what was said . . .God never said that you could not touch the tree, he just said not to eat of it . . . I never said anything about lemonade . . .I said beer or mixed drinks.

And I must say, I'm pleasantly surprised at the answers . . . perhaps, the question should have been in reverse . . . if someone of reputation did you a favor and if you heard a voice in you suggesting you repay them with a 6-pack of beer . . . would you do it or rebuke the voice within you?

Yeah, there is a reason for my asking.  I  . . . My . . . Not sure how to word this . . . being brought up under strict religious enforcement, I know what it's like to be bound by the very thing that was intended to set people free.  We used Scriptures to prove why everyone was going to hell and why we should live a particular life-style.  We were not allowed to watch tv . . .which raised quite a stir in our house because we lived out in the boonies pretty much . .and there wasn't much of a social life happening and my Mom got her relief from watching the tube . . .much inner fighting in my early years . .eventually, Mom won out, but it took years. 

At any rate, since I've been led out of that bondage, I've found that there are still many issues in my life that continually need to be purged and purified.  So even though we do walk on a happier road, I'm still very much aware that growth and change are continual.  So when I see some of the comments that people interject . . . it makes me wonder just how free some people are.

For example, in our study last night . . .I was enjoying what God was showing us as we were moving through the book of Revelation  . . .pretty fast to . .about 4 verses an hour!!!  And I was saying something, don't remember what the point was now, but I inserted a slang word . . ."freakin'" and man, people just went haywire.  "Oh, Pastor!!  Wash your mouth out with soap!!  We don't talk like that!  You should know better your a Pastor!  On and on . . .  it occurred to me, no matter how much we "think" we are in the spirit, there is still much flesh in us that manifests by reflex, more than we care to admit.

But I couldn't help but think of how Roy feels about capitalizing pronouns . . . I then took the rest of the time we had and went back to emphasizing that regardless of whether I think someone is living in sin . . . just how much closer am I bringing them to God be approaching them and instructing or advising them how "I see" they should change.  Are we not "seated" at the right hand of the Father in "heavenly" places?

That isn't supposed to be a temporary position.  I'm sitting until I see someone else who is not in aligment with my standards . . .then I need to "get up" and straighten them out.  If I'm spending all my time convicting others . . .what's the Holy Spirit supposed to do then?  Isn't that "His" job?

I asked that question about the beer because that's usually a touchy one for those who are still in a religious cycle.  And that's again why I'm surprised that there seems to be some resistance toward the idea of revelating with people on this forum.  You seem to be able to see somethings that can only be seen from a spiritual plain . . .such as UR . .that is made known to us only by way of God revealing it to us.  Otherwise, if we were totally and wholly fundamentalists, we'd be just as strong about ET as the others.

It takes much more grace and faith to believe UR than it does ET.  And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that . . .the ONLY way you can please God is by FAITH.  What is faith again?  It's believing in what can't be seen, accepting what can't be understood.  Those who embrace the literal written word aren't walking in faith, they're walking by sight.  Those that see the spiritual truth beneath the surface of what's written are the ones walking in faith.

Two birds with one stone here . .

Molly, the first thing I would do, if I were the one counceling the young man, would be to tell him, I'm going to lay the Bible aside for just a moment and let's talk about what's real "to the young man".  I'm not saying I don't believe the Bible is real, I'm saying that people receive so much more when they see you setting your religious badge aside.  Personally, I believe your decription of the man's acivity is wrong . . .but . . . When you live according to right and wrong, you are walking in the tree of knowledge of good and evil . .not in life

When people's lives are falling apart, the last thing they need is for me to tell them . . ."Dude . . .you're so messed up!"  What they need is, someone that is oblivious to the obvious and just love on them.  My advice to them would be to just take a minute and do a quick evaluation of their situation . .ask them what their priorities are . . .does he really care about his wife, does he want to remain a part of this family . . . But telling him that it's all his fault and he needs to straigten up and act responsible, that's natural reasoning talking . .what he needs is true Love to intervene.

I can't manifest God's love while pushing my own agenda at the same time.

Hi! Nathan

Brother I'm having considerable difficulty following you. One moment you're here with me the next you're at home with your TV, then you're with your congregation or whatever.

1)... Let us start with your strict bringing up, mine was very strict as well and we didn't have any TV or radio then either. In that respect you were very fortunate. But you don't say why were you not allowed to watch TV?  Who was stopping you, because your mom also seemed to be under the hammer? All this doesn't make sense to me, it's very fragmented.

2)....Now we're at a Bible study and you come out with a bad word, or the one of the members thinks it is and tells you to wash your mouth out. You appear to be in amongst the wolves. You were lucky to get out in one piece.

3).....Now you're on to me and my obsession with God. What you fail to see is that I was brought up in a much stricter generation than you, seeing you're talking about TVs. In my generation we had to toe the line and show respect for elders, raise our cap to ladies and offer our seat in trains and public transport to a lady the elderly and all such stuff, which is now considered a load of tripe. As I grew older and God entered my life those ingrained good habits remained, and if they were good enough for man then they were certainly good for my God. Hence everything to do with God in the written word is Capitalized. Good habits learned when young cling and I am grateful to my God for that and my parents. I don't regret that one bit, and we got disciplined and properly disciplined, which show good results to this day. Pity it stopped when you look round now.

I have apologized to you and Laren after a shooting incident with my mate Taffy, which he won. I admitted it was nitpicking, this is my own way of showing respect, what anyone else chooses to do is their own business. I apologize to you again for that. If someone asks, I express my opinion, if they don't agree it's OK, if they want to discuss it that to is OK, I'll discuss it. But I am in no way trying to push my belief on to anyone. If my message is the truth the Holy Spirit will do the rest, I'm not trying to do the impossible, and usurp His role.

4).....Yes, I understand. I belonged to a Pentecostal movement before I came out and they were very much against all forms of spirit, the liquid variety, which was a law of their own and contrary to the Bible teaching. Our Lord Himself enjoyed a good quality wine as provided at the wedding in Cana, gallons of it and the best (the best is strongest), so what right had they to ban it.

6)......Then you went on to faith and lost me because I didn't know whether I was coming or going by then.

7).......Finally you had a go at Molly. By then I'd had enough and left you with Molly to answer her own.

Sorry Nathan, I'm a simple dumb cluck and can only handle one question at a time, too many and I get the beer-grain or my-grain as Laren calls it.

Peace!(http://dl4.glitter-graphics.net/pub/1176/1176424t4nufen6go.gif)

Roy   UK

[Nathan]

1 . . .never did I say I cornered the market on understanding all things . . . so if things I say are not clear, chances are it's because I didn't share them clearly . . . I started out by saying "I don't know how to put this . . ."  Notice that?  The whole point to that line of questioning was stemming from how often it sounds like people fall back on their religious backgrounds.  And yes, the nitpicking thing was in the same time frame and I don't know that your apology to Taf came out yet . . .not that it matters, I'm not trying to pin you on anything here . . .it was just a question trying to test the waters a bit about the idea as to how much law was still out there . . .thus the question about giving a guy a beer . . .obviously, there is no issue in this arena.

2.  The comments about what transpired in church are related in the sense that no matter how long one is in the kingdom perspectives, one still has boundaries based on personal standards.  When other's cross those boundaries, law manifests in us and we try to "correct" the other person to come back into our standards . . that was what happened with those reacting negatively to the choice of wording I used.  It was quickly evident there still are areas where freedom had not yet been let in.

3.  The issues that continue to rise up on this forum, people want proof . .biblical proof that what is being seen has already been written.  My response is . .what is faith?  Is it not beleiving in what you don't understand and accepting what you can not see?  But people fall back on the "written" passages where it talks about testing spirits and reproofing with the Word . .so that nobody trusts anyone . . and the ability to see things that are beneath become a struggle to all because you just can't prove it scripturally . . at times I do throw passages out, but it's not the passage that's the issue, it's the recipient of what's being said.  People have already drawn their conclusions, and if they think I'm a nutcase .  . then no matter whether I quote or not quote, they still choose not to recieve.

Then I went to Molly who posed the question about the husband stuck in porno . . .

Does any of this help?

[Molly]

What on earth is all this about, Molly

I just randomly share what God is sharing with me.  That's a very powerful chapter, isn't it?

Describing a time when truth is fallen in the street, judgment is backwards, and justice is standing afar off.

They don't know the way of peace, just violence, and any man who departs from evil is clobbered.

I think it has to do with our convention season.  :mshock:

But he promises a Redeemer from his right hand, and that he will put his words in our mouths...

[riverman]

It has been interesting to watch this thread veer from one area to another, I thought I might throw another thought out there that might be worthy of consideration in light of the original topic that was presented.

I have come to believe that virtually anything taught by the denominations is wrong, it is so leavened as to have lost it's true meaning or it is just out and out dung. Certainly I do not suggest to have all the answers, maybe a few, maybe none.

But consider this for a minute;

Joh 8:12  Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Joh 9:5  As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

Keeping that in mind let's go back to Genesis;

Gen 1:3  And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Gen 1:4  And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Gen 1:5  And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

I do not believe everything came about in six literal days (another church teaching) but rather in ages or periods or stages. With this in mind and with scripture telling us the sun was created on the fourth day what or should I say Who was the Light created on Day One?

A couple more things to consider;

Joh 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulcher and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulcher.

Joh 20:19  Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

Another huge first day, the day that gives us our hope! In Genesis we see Light before the sun, in Revelation we see Light with no need for the sun!

Rev 22:5  And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign forever and ever.

Peace to you all,

RM 

[Molly]

Joh 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulcher and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulcher.

The resurrected Christ!  He is the beginning.

Thank you! :Sparkletooth:


Ephesians 5:14
Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.