Can you explain?

[Nathan]

Isn't it a bit difficult to love others if you can't even love yourself?  It's got nothing to do with loving worldly things, it's simply applying the same grace to your own shortcomings as God does.  If his image is in you, and if you're to see others as he sees them, being blind to the failures of sin and others is what it's all about.

If I love others and can't stand myself . . .it that not hypocracy?

What is your description of false humility?

Hi! Brother Nathan

I didn't say I hated myself, now did I?  I didn't love the person I was, I love Him within me more than my life itself and I love my neighbour (you brother) more than myself, the "I" comes last. Yes, I grant you my old self was a hypocrite because, if the truth be known, my love for you (my neighbour) wouldn't have stood an earthly chance if challenged by the lures of the world, greed. God of course wouldn't have entered the equation. But now it's different, I have at last found my First Love  "But I have this against you, that you have left your first love." (Rev.2:4).

Having found Him I have also found myself, I have consumed Him and He has consumed me, now I live for Him and not myself, there is no hypocrisy in it now. The "I" no longer exists it is He that controls everything, the Captain of this humble ship. A big ocean and me in a small ship needs a Captain such as the Lord. This, then is my description of true humility, does it answer your description of it as a false humility? Or is it your humility that's in doubt?

Peace!(http://dl3.glitter-graphics.net/pub/913/913823shy6qui595.gif)[/url

Roy   UK

Mind if I expound on your passage you quoted there?  Kind of keep it in the context . . .
2 "I know all the things you do. I have seen your hard work and your patient endurance. I know you don't tolerate evil people. You have examined the claims of those who say they are apostles but are not. You have discovered they are liars. 3 You have patiently suffered for me without quitting.
4 "But I have this complaint against you. You don't love me or each other as you did at first! 5 Look how far you have fallen! Turn back to me and do the works you did at first. If you don't repent, I will come and remove your lampstand from its place among the churches

The part that jumped out at me here was the fact that the didn't tolerate evil people.  We're talking on this thread about loving yourself . .or not . . and here, these guys wouldn't tolerate evil people and they were bent on proving others to be false in their appearances (sounds kind of familiar . .)  This on the surface, sounds like a pretty busy church pursuing Christ . .but if that's true, then why did he find that they'd lost their first love?  They don't love Christ as much as they once did . . .can you see why?  Because they enjoyed proving others wrong more than they did loving Christ.  And they were good at it . .. they proved them . .it wasn't just an attempt to prove people wrong . . .they really proved them to be wrong . .but where did it get them?

Back to Romans 3 . . .law is the knowledge of sin, but the righteousness of God is made manifest, it becomes visible . . .without the law . . .when we ignore the sin.

[Roy Monis]

Mat 19:19  Honor thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.


As long as a world of evil "out there" is your focus and perception; it continues to be a reflection of your "inner man" you have not yet embraced and loved.     

The "world out there" is "in you".  Learn to love yourself, and the world changes. 



Love thy neighbor as thyself.

Yes--so I want to ask (not you, Laren, but in general)--what is it about that simple command from *God* that you Christians don't understand?

The world won't change until what is in me is in the world.

Hi! Molly

Your quote: "what is it about that simple command from *God* that you Christians don't understand?" I don't understand what you mean by that statement. Who are you referring to as Christians? I and I assume most on this forum were once in the established Babylonian Churches and have now come out of them and their false gospel, freewill, Trinity and eternal hell fire beliefs, so if they are the Christians you are referring to please exclude me. 

Call me what you will but not one of them.

Regarding the "As long as a world of evil "out there" is your focus and perception; it continues to be a reflection of your "inner man" you have not yet embraced and loved.     
The "world out there" is "in you".  Learn to love yourself, and the world changes. 

I don't see the connection. We are all aware of the evil out there it cannot be avoided, it's all over, but who on earth is making it an object of one's focus, have I given that impression? As far as the world out there being in me, it most certainly isn't. It's Christ that is in me and the two don't mix. I love Christ more than myself (and you brother and sister) and that has indeed changed me beyond my wildest dreams. I leave you with your own advice you love yourself and I'll love the Lord. How's that, we'll both be happy? 

As for this: "Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself". It's a command from God and we have to obey it if we profess to love Him. It's as simple as that.
" 'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' This is the great and foremost commandment. The second is like it, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets." (Matt.22:37-40). I thought this was basic knowledge; "If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also." (1Jn.4:20-21).

Peace! :IloveU: :IloveU: :IloveU: :IloveU:
Roy   UK.

[Roy Monis]

So they are dead for over 2000 years, Adam and Eve are dead for much, much longer but we are still very much alive, so what use is all that tripe in the Bible to us let's throw the lot out the window. Is that what you're saying? 'Tis true we can't see the spiritual, you've just thrown it out the window, now no one can see it whether dead or alive. Good going

You're not the first to receive it in this light.  I never said the Bible is no longer of any use to us.  I'm saying . ..say when Paul instructed the women of the church to be silent and let the men receive from the Pastor and then take it home to the wives and let the wives receive the seed from the husbands . . . .do you think that we're to take "that" literally?  No, it was for THAT church setting .  . .THAT group of people in THAT day.  The spirit breathes on his Word . .including the Bible, there's no doubt about that and I'm not trying to take your Bible away.

What I'm trying to do is identify with you that there is a reason for this call to come out of the church.  It's not so that we can become independant in our own thinking . . but it's to call us to a higher understanding . . .a deeper relationship that organized churches have shot themselves in the foot with because they've drawn out boundaries in their beliefs, not allowing them to see a new anything.  So, the church programs can turn people into cattle and the day of farm labor is over . . . it went out with the end of the 6th day.

There's more to this  . .to me . .than just quitting church.  It's not about what you're leaving, it's about "why" did God call you out?  He never takes anything from you unless he's got something better waiting.  So . . .which is it?  Am I supposed to make sure no women teach?  No women are allowed to preach?  Only men can be anointed by God when it comes to ministering to adults?

I don't want to "assume" your answers . . . I get accused of bad things already . . . but in my experience, I have not come across one person that feels that this passage of Scripture pertains to me.  So what then?  Do we just throw it out?  Was it not also inspired by God?  And this is just my point in all of this.  We'll say "no, that part was just for them, the church they had was brand-new and they didn't have any established way of handling things then so Paul had to teach them how to conduct themselves." 

So IF that part isn't supposed to be applied literally . . .then where does it end?  Are we to leave it up to ourselves as to what verse is taken literally and what verse isn't?  And I believe that's just what we "have" done . . .which is another reason why there are so many different denominations.  Everybody has their own version of how to apply it literally.  So . . .it occurred to me one day . . .what if NONE of it is to be taken literally . .like . . .in the same manner  they received it when it was written to them.

Now, people are telling me I'm saying you should throw the Bible out and beings those people are all dead, the Bible is dead as well . . . come on . .think about your accusations.  I'm a pastor for pitty sake . . .I preach out of the Bible EVERY Sunday . .so why would I then say it's useless?  I'm not saying that at all.  I'm not even saying that by applying it literally to your own life, that it's not effective . . .what I "am" saying is . . .there's so much MORE to it than just what's on the surface.

So, if I'm not to apply that passage about women being silent literally . . .how "do" I apply it?  Ha!  So glad you asked :cloud9:  You apply it "spiritually"  (big surprise!)  What is the spiritual picture with that passage?  Well, the man is your spirit, the woman is your mind . . .the woman is to remain silent so the spirit can receive the Word of Truth and then, as the mind is in submission to the spirit . . .the original order of our Genesis, Truth can then be birthed into our understanding . . .my mind is my womb.

So I quit picking what is and what isn't to be applied literally, and I've chosen to pursue all of it on the same plain . . .spiritually.  And from there, other things begin to manifest.  Jesus said his words are "spirit".  Nothing of what he stated was intended to be taken literally.  The disciples took him literally . . .they still thought that he was literally going to be King of Israel.  Well, if the Word was the beginning . . .the Word was with God . . .and the word WAS/IS God. . .then if we weren't to take Jesus words literally, why are we embracing the written word literally?

Again, I am not saying there is absolutely no room for literal understanding . . .I'm saying that the literal piece is just a stepping stone to lead you into the spiritual piece.  When I walk in the spirit, I see it's not about being right or wrong . . .I see that this kind of thinking is connected to the tree of knowledge of "good" and "evil".  Living in that tree, one always must define black from white, up from down, left from right . . .in the tree of life . . . both in balance are "good."  Both "bring" balance, which is . ."Good."

Dear Brother Nathan

I find your reply of 26/08/08 very interesting indeed and would like to read it carefully and reply. Please forgive my foolish attempt at sarcasm it was out of order and your response has truly humbled me. It is getting very late here and I'm pretty tired so I'll rest it till tomorrow if God so wills.

Thank you and I'll be back God willing.

Peace! (http://dl3.glitter-graphics.net/pub/117/117193tdajxe3wh8.gif)

Roy   UK.

[Taffy]

Sleep well Roy....

must be getting a little dark in the evenings in Lancs this time of yr... :icon_flower:

[Molly]

The righteousness of Christ though is God clothing us with unconditional love. We can be naked/exposed and be loved regardless"

Isn't that what intimacy is?


..then shall I know fully, even as I am fully known. (1 Cor 13)

[Roy Monis]

Isn't it a bit difficult to love others if you can't even love yourself?  It's got nothing to do with loving worldly things, it's simply applying the same grace to your own shortcomings as God does.  If his image is in you, and if you're to see others as he sees them, being blind to the failures of sin and others is what it's all about.

If I love others and can't stand myself . . .it that not hypocracy?

What is your description of false humility?

I think we all start out loving ourselves--it's the carnal nature of man--flesh doesn't want to die--flesh loves itself.

Self love is normally called self interest.  The question is will people go against their own self interest to save another? Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. (Jn 15:13)

I loved myself first until I found someone who so eclipsed me that He became my first love...

Hi! Molly

I'm So pleased that you have seen my drift. Self sacrifice for others can only happen if Christ Dwells in you. Loving yourself is carnal and reaps the carnal rewards, envy, covetousness, greed, hate etc. But I will concede I should have said, I love myself last in line; God, neighbour then self.

I hope this clears my point up with Nathan.

Peace! :boyheart: :boyheart: :boyheart: :boyheart: :boyheart: :boyheart: :boyheart:
Roy   UK

   

[Roy Monis]

Maybe our definition of loving is what is messing this up.

How about . . .can we "accept" ourselves for who we are?  Why would you hate what God
created?  If I see only darkness in myself . .then how can I reflect light into others?  How can I "be" light to others?  "It's not I, but Christ in me . . ."  Yeah, I get that, but it involves "you". 

I think if God went so far as to release his son into this earth to bring me life . . . I must be pretty special. 

Without Christ . . .I am nothing . . .

Are you then saying you are without Christ?  You are far from nothing, you are kings and priests, God delights in you.  He's loved you before you even were aware of him.  Forget loving the world . . .you are not the world.  You are a spirit, you are not flesh.  You're flesh is simply a temporary dwelling place . . . your identity is Christ . .to love yourself . .is to love Christ.

The Bible says to love your neighbor as yourself . . . again . . .how can you love someone else if you first don't love yourself.  Who told you, that you were naked?  You've not been listening to the voice of Truth.  Truth says you are righteous.  Why would you not love righteousness?  I do love me.  I'm finding a few more aches as the days go by, but I figure if God loves me, then there must be "some" worth there.

I'm again surprised.  God is love . . .love is God.  God is in me, love is in me.  Love loves me .  .I love me.

Hi! Nathan

I probably worded it wrong. What I mean is, in the love stakes I put myself last; My new found Love God first, next my neighbour (you my brother and Molly) then last but not least myself. The light within me, is not me, it is Christ my new found love within me that shines.

So there is no hypocrisy and no darkness except for the remaining elements of the carnal which each and everyone of us is struggling to rid ourselves of. A long and tedious task but with the help of Him within is possible.

I'm saying the direct opposite to you; I'm not saying I'm without Christ, I'm saying Christ is within me. How can I be without Him if He is within?

Your quote: I'm again surprised.  God is love . . .love is God.  God is in me, love is in me.  Love loves me .  .I love me. No brother "Love loves me"  the realization of that truth is more than enough for me, I don't need to love myself. You're not listening brother, I've never said I loved the world, I hate it with all its corruption. You're right in sating I'm not in the world now, I agree with you there.

But I appreciate your line of thought and can see what your point is, but not for me. Christ is ALL. If you love me and I love you that is enough for me. When I start loving myself then I'm in the carnal realm and standing on dangerous ground. "He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.(Matt.10:37-39).
(http://dl8.glitter-graphics.net/pub/625/625568k4a6ika3dj.jpg)Peace!

Roy   UK

PS:  Please brother don't be offended as none is intended, but please capitalize pronouns when they refer to Almighty God. In all humility I ask just as a mark of respect.

[Taffy]

OK Roy.

My trains a rollin , (http://soleilimg1.free.fr/gifs/locomotion/trains/train002.gif)The real Smilie King is back Im Town Bro,Time to flex my smilie Muscles(http://soleilimg1.free.fr/gifs/personnages/perso3d/3d050.gif)Your riegn is over my Brit Bro,,,time to move over(http://soleilimg1.free.fr/gifs/personnages/perso3d/3d257.gif)and I mean Business man!(http://soleilimg1.free.fr/gifs/personnages/perso3d/3d245.gif)the Boys in Blue are out for you too,your finished man(http://soleilimg1.free.fr/gifs/personnages/perso3d/3d242.gif)and if they dont get ya...ive a few friends of me own(http://soleilimg1.free.fr/gifs/personnages/perso3d/3d222.gif)so take this taxi while ya can and git out me town(http://soleilimg1.free.fr/gifs/locomotion/voitures/voitu047.gif)

[Roy Monis]

Love your enemies.

How, do yu love your enemies if there is only evil in him?  Is there Christ in the enemy to love??

So how do you love your enemies, if Christ isn't in them??

or is the mystery revealed, Christ is in all of us? 

Many just don't see it when there perceptions are on "the good branch", or "bad branch" of the tree where no life is revealed. 

Know no man after the flesh??  why and how??

Hi! Laren

Did our Lord Jesus Christ give His life only for the righteous or for all mankind, even for the worst of sinners Paul?

Indeed Christ came not save the righteous but the sinner. "Father forgive them for they know not what they do!"  That was His last prayer before dying for all humanity, even enemies who knew Him not. "Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing."   (Mark 23:34)

Peace! (http://dl4.glitter-graphics.net/pub/1176/1176424t4nufen6go.gif)

Roy   UK

[WhiteWings]

Roy,

Do you agree Jesus loved many that surrounded Him?
They where as rotten as you are.
Was Jesus wrong in loving them?
So if Jesus loves it, its likely ok to love it...

Dear WhiteWings

I agree Jesus loved all the multitude that surrounded Him and I agree that they were all not just rotten but dung like me, but you forgot to mention does that include you or not? Maybe you're special, I should have thought of that, I'm sorry, please forgive me.

No He loved them all, as He has commanded me to love you. Whether Jesus was wrong to love them or not is up to Jesus, I be thinking, you'd best ask Him seeing you're so righteous. He really loved self-righteous people, Pharisees especially!

Peace brother, I love  :boyheart: :boyheart: :boyheart: :boyheart: :boyheart: :boyheart:you.(http://dl3.glitter-graphics.net/pub/913/913823shy6qui595.gif)[/url
Roy   

I think there is some sort of misunderstanding here.
From your pov you shouldn't love yourself.
Now suppose you have lived during the time of Jesus.
Jesus: He Roy, I love you!
Roy: You are wrong Jesus.
Jesus: Why.
Roy: Well because I don't love myself you would be stupid to do so.

So what I mean is; if Jesus tells you are good enough to be loved why ignore his advice by saying are to rotten to love yourself.

Bit more clear now? :bgdance:

[laren]

Love your enemies.

How, do yu love your enemies if there is only evil in him?  Is there Christ in the enemy to love??

So how do you love your enemies, if Christ isn't in them??

or is the mystery revealed, Christ is in all of us? 

Many just don't see it when there perceptions are on "the good branch", or "bad branch" of the tree where no life is revealed. 

Know no man after the flesh??  why and how??

Hi! Laren

Did our Lord Jesus Christ give His life only for the righteous or for all mankind, even for the worst of sinners Paul?

Indeed Christ came not save the righteous but the sinner. "Father forgive them for they know not what they do!"  That was His last prayer before dying for all humanity, even enemies who knew Him not. "Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing."   (Mark 23:34)

Peace! (http://dl4.glitter-graphics.net/pub/1176/1176424t4nufen6go.gif)

Roy   UK

Hi Roy,

here's my thoughts about what u said earlier and has me thinking.  You said you don't love yourself, but you love Christ in you.  

So how do you love your enemy, if there is no Christ in them?  

[laren]

Actually, I saw above where you said you love yourself last in line.   This whole thinking puts limitations on love.  Love God more, others a little less, and me even less?? 

does love, love in degrees??

[Roy Monis]

The mystery has been revealed to the Gentiles, but even if you don't know that, you know the simple command which can be acted on in obedience by the smallest child--

Love your enemies.

Love is first and foremost--an action.

Well said Molly

"If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing. Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part; but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a child; when I became a man, I did away with childish things. For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known. But now faith, hope, love, abide these three; but the greatest of these is love. (1Cor.13).
(http://dl8.glitter-graphics.net/pub/1247/1247598g8oyd7jln8.gif)
Peace!

Roy  UK

[Roy Monis]

I will agree, there is a created Christ . . .it's one that my head has formulated.  And there is a born of God Christ . .it's one that my heart has imulated.  Now, which one we choose to follow is up to us.

I choose both because they are one and the same.

(Col. 1:15) "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature".

If Christ is the firstborn of every creature that means he was created.

(Col 1:18) And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning

Christ was the beginning of the creation.

(Rev. 3:14) These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.

CHB

Hi! CHB

You have quoted incorrectly, brother. Your quote: (Col. 1:15) "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature".

Where does it say that, I don't see it in any of the three Bibles I can afford, the Interlinear Hebrew/English/Greek, the KJV or the NASV. The correct translation is: "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation." (1Col.1:15). Now look up the meaning of firstborn in the centre column and it will take you to 2Cor.4:4 which tells you that the firstborn is the Image of the glory of Christ not the first created image of the creature.

Peace!(http://dl3.glitter-graphics.net/pub/913/913823shy6qui595.gif)

Roy  UK

Hi Roy,

In my KJV it is worded exactly like I said it was. In the YLT it says "firstborn of all creation".

I noticed you didn't say anything about the other verses I gave.

If Christ was the beginning and he said he was, then He had to have been the first thing that was created.
The "beginning" is the first person or thing in a series.

CHB

No CHB

No, brother. The Beginning is a noun meaning, the Beginner, the Creator. For a start notice the "B" in upper case, now along side of the beginning you see a small letter or figure referring you to the centre column reference where you'll be referred to (Col.1:15). Here you are told that He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation, and not the firstcreated being, a mere creature.

Does that help brother, antichrist turns and twists words and phrases to suit his purpose that's why we are so sternly warned to beware of him. "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. Behold, I have told you in advance." (Matt.24:24-25). False teachers are false prophets.

(http://dl6.glitter-graphics.net/pub/410/410766aea22387hc.gif)
Peace!

Roy   UK.

[Roy Monis]

Let me put this another way--

If the 200 million Christians of the most powerful country on the planet instructed their elected officials to follow these directives of their God--Love your enemies, Love your neighbor as yourself--

or Molly ,,,IF my AUNTIE had a set of genitals, she be me Uncle..... :laughing7:

sorry couldnt resist :icon_flower:

Hi! Taffy

That was naughty, say sorry! :icon_jokercolor: :icon_joker: :icon_jokercolor: :icon_joker: :icon_jokercolor: :icon_joker: :icon_joker: :icon_jokercolor: :icon_jokercolor: :happy3:
(http://dl.glitter-graphics.net/pub/270/270601mreat66odd.gif)Peace!

Roy

[Craig]

I agree Roy,

Let us say Jesus is not the Son of God, but just a man (Not that I am not stating that, just removing this proposition for a moment).

God would also be the Beginning and the End. Yet, God has no beginning or end, so how can that be?  Being that all things begin with Him and all things end with Him, He is the Beginning and the End. Just as you stated, it is a misunderstanding of the language they are speaking. It is a philosophical point of the reality He created, not the a characteristic of his nature. As Paul said concerning the Greeks as their poets said, "In Him we live and move and have our being." Everything begins with Him and everthing ends with Him, He is creations Beginning and End.

Now return Jesus to being the Son of God, all things begin with Him and all things end with Him, He is God made manifest in the flesh, not created but formed like Woman was taken from Adam and later named Eve, The Word was taken from God and later named Jesus. A difficult concept for people to understand that Jesus literally is God as much as he was a man.

[CHB]

No, brother. The Beginning is a noun meaning, the Beginner, the Creator. For a start notice the "B" in upper case, now along side of the beginning you see a small letter or figure referring you to the centre column reference where you'll be referred to (Col.1:15). Here you are told that He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation, and not the firstcreated being, a mere creature.

Does that help brother, antichrist turns and twists words and phrases to suit his purpose that's why we are so sternly warned to beware of him. "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. Behold, I have told you in advance." (Matt.24:24-25). False teachers are false prophets.

So, you admit that Jesus was the firstborn?  That makes Jesus the firstborn of all living and the firstborn of all the dead. Do you agree with this?  If so, that makes Jesus the beginning, or Beginning, doesn't matter, he was first.

CHB

[Molly]

So how do you love your enemy, if there is no Christ in them?

Love is an action.  Watch a mother with a sick child.  Does she just sit there and exude some mysterious emotion called love?  No, she works hard to get the child well--whatever it takes, 24 hours a day if that's what it takes.  

It's a motivator.  It motivates us to walk the extra mile (another command).

It is motion.  It causes us to do the right thing, not because of what another is, but because of what we are.

It first does no harm--the oath that all doctors take.  Even if you do nothing else, do no harm.

You don't have to know anything about the other person to carry out these directives.  

We even see it present itself in wars, institutionalized in laws--the Geneva convention, the Constitution--no cruel and unusual punishment, no torture, no locking somebody up without counsel, without habeas corpus,  and throwing away the key.   I don't love those prisoners we see in the news in any romantic or emotional or personal sense but when I see what was done to them my skin crawls and I want to throw up.  Waterboarding goes back to the Inquisition!

Without love, we will  slip back into the dark ages.

Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of many will grow cold...
--Mat 24

[Roy Monis]

well, I can hope--because that's what it's going to take.

What is it about 'Love your enemies' you don't understand, Christians?

Is that a difficult sentence?  Are you all braindead?

This is the danger of the antichrist who leads the sheep astray, to scatter and devour them.

Hi! Molly

Heaven forbid. If the West were to throw up their arms like that, in no time Allah would be in control not God. Allah is waiting patiently for an opportunity to pounce, 9/11 was just the prelude. I know it's not God's way but it's the only way man can see to keep the dogs at bay.

Surely you can see that? I know Israel did that and sought help from Egypt instead of relying on God. But..But...But...I don't have an answer for that other than;

(http://dl2.glitter-graphics.net/pub/419/419062tg71km3kmb.gif)
Peace!

Roy   UK

[Roy Monis]

Let me put this another way--

If the 200 million Christians of the most powerful country on the planet instructed their elected officials to follow these directives of their God--Love your enemies, Love your neighbor as yourself--

How would the world change overnight?'

Surely the world would change. The USA would be a 3rd world country in a very short time.
Just look what and who supports your economy.
Yes it's very sad. But I fear it's even more true.

Hi! WhitWings

Not just the USA brother the whole beastly world including Islam under those nuts, harder and crazier than the walnut.

(http://dl6.glitter-graphics.net/pub/110/110026qsida0z6wg.gif)

Peace!

Roy   UK

[Roy Monis]

Yes, Nathan--I agree--but first, like Adam and Eve,  we must see ourselves as naked, before we can see Him, the one who would cloth us in righteousness.

Molly love!

The Lord would have to be pretty sharp because I look ghastly naked, I hope the spiritual is a lot better.

Now give us a smile!  :gangel: :gangel: :gangel: :gangel: :gangel: :gangel: :gangel: :gangel: :gangel:
Peace!

Roy  UK

[Taffy]

He Ha ..Just a Little light hearted banter Roy

(http://soleilimg1.free.fr/gifs/personnages/divers/diver114.gif) :laughing7:

[Nathan]

[quote

PS:  Please brother don't be offended as none is intended, but please capitalize pronouns when they refer to Almighty God. In all humility I ask just as a mark of respect.

[/quote]

Um . . .all due respect Roy, I don't mean to offend you either, but I elect to decline your proposal.  The reason is not to be rebellious against you or God, but to make a point.  It's the very thing we have been talking about on many different topics.  We claim we are free from the laws of man and we are not confined to the standards of other people in their views of God . . .and in the same breath, I'm asked to capitalize my pronouns whenever I'm refering to God?  Isn't that kind of the opposite of living free from the law?

I meant no disrespect in what ever words you saw that I didn't capitalize and I mean no disrespect by not coming under your advisement.  But if we're free "in" Christ, to me, that would include "having" to capitlize pronouns, right along with having to wear a suit in church, having to wear a tie, having to not do this, or have to do that . . .  Personally, I wear bluejeans every Sunday . .mainly because that's my personality . .I'm a blue-collar follower of Christ.  Anymore, the only times I break out the suits is for weddings or funerals . . .and there've been a couple weddings where I didn't even do "that".   :icon_king:

[Roy Monis]

how do we love our enemy if we are not to love the things of the world??

Hi! Laren

You love your brother, my friend. Your so-called enemy is also your brother and you must love your brother whether he is in or out of the world. That's how.!

Peace!

Roy  UKurl=h[ttp://www.glitter-graphics.com](http://dl3.glitter-graphics.net/pub/681/681483u7y91w3fyi.gif)[/url]

[laren]

Um . . .all due respect Roy, I don't mean to offend you either, but I elect to decline your proposal.  The reason is not to be rebellious against you or God, but to make a point.  It's the very thing we have been talking about on many different topics.  We claim we are free from the laws of man and we are not confined to the standards of other people in their views of God . . .and in the same breath, I'm asked to capitalize my pronouns whenever I'm refering to God?  Isn't that kind of the opposite of living free from the law?

I meant no disrespect in what ever words you saw that I didn't capitalize and I mean no disrespect by not coming under your advisement.  But if we're free "in" Christ, to me, that would include "having" to capitlize pronouns, right along with having to wear a suit in church, having to wear a tie, having to not do this, or have to do that . . .  Personally, I wear bluejeans every Sunday . .mainly because that's my personality . .I'm a blue-collar follower of Christ.  Anymore, the only times I break out the suits is for weddings or funerals . . .and there've been a couple weddings where I didn't even do "that".   :icon_king:

AMEN. 

I have a friend who told me she was offended if someone referred to God as "daddy" or "dad".  I think it is so easy to project human perception onto God, as if God's view of us changed based on what we do.