Can you explain?

[Nathan]

Want to see the spiritual picture of these passages Roy has quoted?  The false Christs is not me, nor is it you . . .it is the carnal mind of man.  It is my ego that inflates things beyond their original intention.  It does not know how the kingdom of God operates.  Want to guard yourself from Idols?  2 Corinthians 10 tells you how . . ."take captive your thoughts." 

It's not about people . . .it's about ME . . . if the Christians would just take care of their own salvation and not try to impose thier standards on others . . .what a wonderful world this would be!!! 

I will agree, there is a created Christ . . .it's one that my head has formulated.  And there is a born of God Christ . .it's one that my heart has imulated.  Now, which one we choose to follow is up to us. 

[Roy Monis]

Want to see the spiritual picture of these passages Roy has quoted?  The false Christs is not me, nor is it you . . .it is the carnal mind of man.  It is my ego that inflates things beyond their original intention.  It does not know how the kingdom of God operates.  Want to guard yourself from Idols?  2 Corinthians 10 tells you how . . ."take captive your thoughts." 

It's not about people . . .it's about ME . . . if the Christians would just take care of their own salvation and not try to impose thier standards on others . . .what a wonderful world this would be!!! 

I will agree, there is a created Christ . . .it's one that my head has formulated.  And there is a born of God Christ . .it's one that my heart has imulated.  Now, which one we choose to follow is up to us. 

Hi! Brother Nathan

I think we are drifting slightly, we are not talking about you or me but about those who preach and teach the false christs. They are the antichrists because they are promoting a christ of their own making, an idol. You and I are the innocent victims of that teaching if we do not have our spiritual eyes open and alert. If we accept the false we become victims of the false christ. If we accept the Truth we become victims of the True Christ. Which Christ would you rather be the victim of seeing we are all searching for the truth?

No one that I can see is imposing their belief on anyone, we are just having a discussion on a topic to find the truth, and the truth can only be found if one is prepared to discuss openly without falling out over it, that leads nowhere. The only way to prove the truth is with the scriptures not by our own opinions.

The scriptures I've quoted are God's Words not mine, so I'm not trying to impose my belief on anyone. If you believe that the scriptures are the truth, then follow them and they will hopefully lead you to the truth, if you are prepared to forget all preconceived ideas and study them with an open mind they will do that, but if you don't then they won't.

It's all up to the individual, no one is forcing anyone to accept anything. I believe what I believe and I'm willing to share it with you but if you don't want to share, fair enough, don't. Do you see my point, I mean no harm, all I say and write is done in love for my brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus, if it helps them fair enough if it doesn't it's still fair enough, no one loses or gains anything. Is that not how it should be, help one another? 

Peace!(http://dl8.glitter-graphics.net/pub/1247/1247598g8oyd7jln8.gif)

Roy   UK 

[Molly]

Want to see the spiritual picture of these passages Roy has quoted?  The false Christs is not me, nor is it you . . .it is the carnal mind of man.  It is my ego that inflates things beyond their original intention.

I don't know that is quite true.

Jesus specifically talks about shepherds--false Christs--antiChrist--"in place of Christ"--who come to destroy the sheep.

They are actual men claiming to be Christ, in order to lead the sheep astray.  Once you understand that, you can see them everywhere.

There is only one good shepherd, one Christ,  and it's not you or me, but Jesus.



10The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

12But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
--John 10

[CHB]

I will agree, there is a created Christ . . .it's one that my head has formulated.  And there is a born of God Christ . .it's one that my heart has imulated.  Now, which one we choose to follow is up to us.

I choose both because they are one and the same.

(Col. 1:15) "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature".

If Christ is the firstborn of every creature that means he was created.

(Col 1:18) And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning

Christ was the beginning of the creation.

(Rev. 3:14) These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.

CHB

[Nathan]

I think we are drifting slightly, we are not talking about you or me but about those who preach and teach the false christs. They are the antichrists because they are promoting a christ of their own making, an idol. You and I are the innocent victims of that teaching if we do not have our spiritual eyes open and alert. If we accept the false we become victims of the false christ. If we accept the Truth we become victims of the True Christ. Which Christ would you rather be the victim of seeing we are all searching for the truth?

Perhaps this is why it's so hard to enter into the realm of rest.  You're still trying to guard the unguardable.  Do you believe "greater is he that is IN me"?  If you do then this shoudn't be an issue.  False teachings . . .false doctrines, false prophets . .

It's not our responsibility to judge which is and which isn't.  It may be to you, but again . . .sigh . . .this seems to be getting us no where today. . .  Everything you guys are stating is coming from a "works-based" thinking.  You're basing all of your conclusions on things that were stated 2,000 years ago, you're not even trying to see the spiritual piece, you're arguing over the false prophets that they were being warned about 2000 years ago in the flesh . . .the physical . . the natural, which ever you wish to title it . . .those guys he was warning about are DEAD.  We are ALIVE . .and if we choose to live in ETERNAL LIFE then we should digest that which makes us alive and not dead.

Worrying about false teachings and prophets is not living truth.  It's yesterday's manna . . . spirit is what brings life . .so why does everyone choose to continue to live according to flesh?  You're interpreting Scripture naturally . . . you make it sound like the false prophets have more power than you .  .everyone is throwing up red flags . .because my mind has never heard this before . . .it must be a false teaching. 

"Growing in the Lord does not mean you continue to digest that which you already know"

All of these promises you're quoting  . .things like seeing in a glass darkly . ."but then we shall see clearly . . ."  "Right now we know not what we will be . . . ."  that was 2000 years ago . . .today I know what I will be . . .I will be what I am . .I am a king and a priest . .that was never declared until John saw it by revelation.  It was also delcared there are many mysteries that were hidden for such a time as this . . . you make it sound like when the Bible was complete the progression of God in man stopped as well.

My base, Scripturally derives from Zechariah 4 . . .the things that once required priests to sustain the ministries of the tabernacle are no longer necessary . . . EVERYTHING now comes through the power of the cross . .now that we're entering into the day of REST.  I am not enforcing you to believe a certain way . . .I'm trying to give you back the WHOLE of until recently, has only been a part.  The Bible was not intended for me to memorize and try to conform to.  There is so much more beneath the surface of it all.

I am not "drifting slightly"  I and sailing "purposefully" . . .God want's us to take this internally.  If he changes my inside thinking . . .it will immediately affect my outside living.  But if I'm rigid in my inside doctrinal beliefs, I'll be so much less mobile in my outside living.  "I can't "believe" that because the Bible says . .to a generation 2,000 years before me .  . that I'm supposed to think this other way . . ."

The time-table is still ticking away and many of us "have" been changed from law to life, from religion to relationship . . . others are still "in" transition.  I pray that all can come into the light and life of "freedom" and seeing these things "inwardly" is a part of that.  So I remain on what I originally said . . .it "is" the spiritual picture of that passage.

[Taffy]

 :boyheart: :icon_flower:

Fly Bro Fly :icon_flower:

[pneuma]

Hi! Taff

Who mentioned justification by the law, I didn't that's for sure matey? I agree that there are sooooooooo many christs, but which Christ is the right one that we believe in that's the question without going off the issue. There are two Jesus Christs that I am aware of that are being taught.
1)..... "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being." (1Jn.1:1-3). "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth." (Jn.1:14).

This is the legitimately Born Jesus Christ Son of God; "Whoever believe that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him." 1Jn.5:1).


The other Jesus Christ

2).......Is a Created Jesus Christ based on man's interpretation of the Scripture:" To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: The Amen, the faithful and true Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God, says this:.." (Rev.3:14).

Now forgetting everything else so as to establish a common ground for discussion we must of necessity believe in just one of the two options.

I am declaring my total belief in the first number 1. The only Begotten Son of God. All I ask is which of the two is your choice? Only then can we continue or we'd be at cross purposes and it will just lead to confusion.

Hi Roy this is where I think my misunderstanding (if indeed I am misunderstanding you) came from.

It seems to me upon reading this that you were saying that the Jesus spoken of in Rev.3:14 is a false Jesus because this (or other Jesus as you called him) Jesus says he is the Beginning of the creation .

Is this what you are stating here?

If so then does that not make the Jesus in Rev.3:14 the antichrist?

I am sorry if this is upsetting you Roy, but when someone says the other Jesus Christ and then gives Rev.3:14 as proof of another Jesus Christ I don't know how to take it except that one is saying the Jesus in Rev.3:14 is not the Jesus begotten of the Father.
So please explain.

[Roy Monis]

Hi! SOtW

Did Saddam show mercy while he watched his victims suffer? "For judgment will be merciless to one who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment." (Jas.2:13)

Peace!

Roy  UK

Only God knows Roy, not man. Mankind perceives anything they want to see, even that which was never there in the first place. I would not trust the lie of human perception over the truth of God's perception. Start paying attention o my replies, because I answered this already for you, we are not God, we do not know the heart of any man but our own. However, on this, Saddam was not shown any mercy. His empire destroyed, and he was hanged and his head displayed in disrespect. Saddam was not shown any mercy, he was killed even before his tribunal had pronounced his guilt.

Hi! SWtO

Good point and thanks. I see what you mean now. Saddam was shown no mercy here that's true and he paid the price for his crimes against humanity. Now from God's perspective, I agree that it is none of our business, the measure of chastisement under His mercy is entirely His prerogative and not for us to judge.

I always pay attention to what others say brother, but what I meant by blanket cover was, does or should that mercy apply to man's judgment as well? It's a two edged sword. No mercy under man's judgment, but a measure of mercy under God's judgment.

Now the question: From man's perspective was he wrong to have done what he did or should he have shown mercy and set him go free? The first part of that verse.
Pay attention to what I'm saying. :happygrin: :happygrin: :happygrin:
Peace!

Roy  UK

[rosered]

Only God knows Roy, not man. Mankind perceives anything they want to see, even that which was never there in the first place. I would not trust the lie of human perception over the truth of God's perception. Start paying attention o my replies, because I answered this already for you, we are not God, we do not know the heart of any man but our own. However, on this, Saddam was not shown any mercy. His empire destroyed, and he was hanged and his head displayed in disrespect. Saddam was not shown any mercy, he was killed even before his tribunal had pronounced his guilt.

  I just got to say this ...    I confess I dont even know my own heart !! 
much less anyones elses intent  ''of the heart''


  lucky you , if you do
 
  I have  found im in that Place in Romans

But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.



Rom
  7:23    Paul shared with us

   in  his mind  the Spirit is willing
  but the flesh is weak   and yes I read  Romans 8   and thats why I still have  faith  and have  not given up yet 
  an the example of Sadam , welllllllll ,   to me its apparent he was definatly 

  in the flesh serving the law of sin

   Paul slew many of innocent,  a chief sinner  by his own mouth confessed this  for all time
  in the Word of God

  and Gods mercy was made Known by this example   
and  with Sadam  we got   death  by  judgement 
did this man not live  lusciously  while his people suffered greatly ?
  seen many kings of the earth [flesh]  go down  in the Book [bible ] by GODS judgment
 
its the bitter /gall   
polar opposite of the sweet
   
and honest  to goodness I would never have known love  if not  knowing hate first  :(   with  that fear of death ..
  this is a sad  and open confession ........ peace
 

[Roy Monis]

Want to see the spiritual picture of these passages Roy has quoted?  The false Christs is not me, nor is it you . . .it is the carnal mind of man.  It is my ego that inflates things beyond their original intention.

I don't know that is quite true.

Jesus specifically talks about shepherds--false Christs--antiChrist--"in place of Christ"--who come to destroy the sheep.

They are actual men claiming to be Christ, in order to lead the sheep astray.  Once you understand that, you can see them everywhere.

There is only one good shepherd, one Christ,  and it's not you or me, but Jesus.



10The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

12But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
--John 10

Hi! Molly

That is precisely my point: your quote; Jesus specifically talks about shepherds--false Christs--antiChrist--"in place of Christ"--who come to destroy the sheep. And this is where He mentions it; "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves."  (Matt.7:15).

What more warning does one need? "For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear this beautifully."  (2Cor.11:4)

So what Jesus is Paul preaching? "You are My Son, Today I have begotten You"? (Heb.1:5). Is this not the Word, the only begotten Son born of God, The TRUE JESUS CHRIST and not a replacement by man of a created creature named jesus, a false christ?  Will the true Jesus confess us before the Father if we confess the created jesus or will He deny us? "Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven. (Matt.10:32-33).

If we believe in the created jesus we are deluding ourselves"For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness." (2Thess.2:11-12) and we are on the broad road leading to judgment and not on the narrow road leading to life."Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it."  (Matt.7:12-14).

Peace! :boyheart: :boyheart: :boyheart: :boyheart:
Roy   UK

[Roy Monis]

I think we are drifting slightly, we are not talking about you or me but about those who preach and teach the false christs. They are the antichrists because they are promoting a christ of their own making, an idol. You and I are the innocent victims of that teaching if we do not have our spiritual eyes open and alert. If we accept the false we become victims of the false christ. If we accept the Truth we become victims of the True Christ. Which Christ would you rather be the victim of seeing we are all searching for the truth?

Perhaps this is why it's so hard to enter into the realm of rest.  You're still trying to guard the unguardable.  Do you believe "greater is he that is IN me"?  If you do then this shoudn't be an issue.  False teachings . . .false doctrines, false prophets . .

It's not our responsibility to judge which is and which isn't.  It may be to you, but again . . .sigh . . .this seems to be getting us no where today. . .  Everything you guys are stating is coming from a "works-based" thinking.  You're basing all of your conclusions on things that were stated 2,000 years ago, you're not even trying to see the spiritual piece, you're arguing over the false prophets that they were being warned about 2000 years ago in the flesh . . .the physical . . the natural, which ever you wish to title it . . .those guys he was warning about are DEAD.  We are ALIVE . .and if we choose to live in ETERNAL LIFE then we should digest that which makes us alive and not dead.

Worrying about false teachings and prophets is not living truth.  It's yesterday's manna . . . spirit is what brings life . .so why does everyone choose to continue to live according to flesh?  You're interpreting Scripture naturally . . . you make it sound like the false prophets have more power than you .  .everyone is throwing up red flags . .because my mind has never heard this before . . .it must be a false teaching. 

"Growing in the Lord does not mean you continue to digest that which you already know"

All of these promises you're quoting  . .things like seeing in a glass darkly . ."but then we shall see clearly . . ."  "Right now we know not what we will be . . . ."  that was 2000 years ago . . .today I know what I will be . . .I will be what I am . .I am a king and a priest . .that was never declared until John saw it by revelation.  It was also delcared there are many mysteries that were hidden for such a time as this . . . you make it sound like when the Bible was complete the progression of God in man stopped as well.

My base, Scripturally derives from Zechariah 4 . . .the things that once required priests to sustain the ministries of the tabernacle are no longer necessary . . . EVERYTHING now comes through the power of the cross . .now that we're entering into the day of REST.  I am not enforcing you to believe a certain way . . .I'm trying to give you back the WHOLE of until recently, has only been a part.  The Bible was not intended for me to memorize and try to conform to.  There is so much more beneath the surface of it all.

I am not "drifting slightly"  I and sailing "purposefully" . . .God want's us to take this internally.  If he changes my inside thinking . . .it will immediately affect my outside living.  But if I'm rigid in my inside doctrinal beliefs, I'll be so much less mobile in my outside living.  "I can't "believe" that because the Bible says . .to a generation 2,000 years before me .  . that I'm supposed to think this other way . . ."

The time-table is still ticking away and many of us "have" been changed from law to life, from religion to relationship . . . others are still "in" transition.  I pray that all can come into the light and life of "freedom" and seeing these things "inwardly" is a part of that.  So I remain on what I originally said . . .it "is" the spiritual picture of that passage.

Hi! Nathan

Your quote brother: Everything you guys are stating is coming from a "works-based" thinking.  You're basing all of your conclusions on things that were stated 2,000 years ago, you're not even trying to see the spiritual piece, you're arguing over the false prophets that they were being warned about 2000 years ago in the flesh . . .the physical . . the natural, which ever you wish to title it . . .those guys he was warning about are DEAD.  We are ALIVE . .and if we choose to live in ETERNAL LIFE then we should digest that which makes us
alive and not dead.

So they are dead for over 2000 years, Adam and Eve are dead for much, much longer but we are still very much alive, so what use is all that tripe in the Bible to us let's throw the lot out the window. Is that what you're saying? 'Tis true we can't see the spiritual, you've just thrown it out the window, now no one can see it whether dead or alive. Good going

Be real brother!(http://dl2.glitter-graphics.net/pub/531/531092obq4tfxk6k.gif)
Peace!   

Roy   UK.

[Molly]

Hi Nathan,

This isn't a 2000 year old message.  It's a message for today--what is, and was, and will be.

Haven't you noticed what is going on in this country?  Haven't you noticed what is going on in the world?

People are dying every day, all over the world, because of the antichrist--millions of them.

What happens when the sheep have blind guides and vipers leading them?

They are made more the chldren of Hell than their guides.  They are scattered by the wolves and eaten alive.

Central to our faith, our life, our future is --who do men say that I the Son of man am?

--But who do you say I am?  (Mat 16)


We won't enter into our rest until enough men answer that question correctly--such that we have the manifestation of the sons of God.

[laren]

Mat 19:19  Honor thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.


As long as a world of evil "out there" is your focus and perception; it continues to be a reflection of your "inner man" you have not yet embraced and loved.     

The "world out there" is "in you".  Learn to love yourself, and the world changes. 

[Roy Monis]

:boyheart: :icon_flower:

Fly Bro Fly :icon_flower:

Hi! Taffy

Your lovely quote, I just love it, brother, "I am declaring my total belief in the first number 1. The only Begotten Son of God. All I ask is which of the two is your choice? Only then can we continue or we'd be at cross purposes and it will just lead to confusion." fellow Britt. At last we're on the same wavelength, now we've removed the sand foundation and replaced it with the Rock let us build on it, Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour. Amen.

Peace! Should we put this in for Willie's sake? 
(http://dl9.glitter-graphics.net/pub/786/786729g5n5q7a7lf.gif)
Roy

[Molly]

Mat 19:19  Honor thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.


As long as a world of evil "out there" is your focus and perception; it continues to be a reflection of your "inner man" you have not yet embraced and loved.     

The "world out there" is "in you".  Learn to love yourself, and the world changes. 

Love thy neighbor as thyself.

Yes--so I want to ask (not you, Laren, but in general)--what is it about that simple command from *God* that you Christians don't understand?

The world won't change until what is in me is in the world.

[Taffy]

Hi! Taffy

Your lovely quote, I just love it, brother, "I am declaring my total belief in the first number 1. The only Begotten Son of God. All I ask is which of the two is your choice? Only then can we continue or we'd be at cross purposes and it will just lead to confusion." fellow Britt. At last we're on the same wavelength, now we've removed the sand foundation and replaced it with the Rock let us build on it, Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour. Amen.

Peace! Should we put this in for Willie's sake? 
(http://dl9.glitter-graphics.net/pub/786/786729g5n5q7a7lf.gif)
Roy

John 17:5 And, now, glorify Me thou, Father! with Thyself, with the glory which I had, before the world's existence, with Thee


Jhn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].

compare this now with the meaning of Elohim, a small excerpt shared by sister onanother forum while discussing Honour THY Father and Mother( with  promise)


Eloah or Eloh is the feminine singular part of Elohim

the "im" is the masculine plural in Hebrew

so Eloh + im can point to the male and female attributes within God...

this, of course, is already known but I thought it was cool that it was contained in the word Elohim and this could be why it is seemingly plural....

...God IS mother AND father...

it is also interesting to note that until Moses asked Elohim his name (Exo 3:13) God was commonly referred to as El Shaddai...

and some scholars have linked "shaddai" to "breasts"....this would make sense then that for the initial period of human history God would have been known by his more female/mothering/nuturing characteristics...just as when babies are first born the mother is the primary caregiver and provides the most essential mother's milk...

by the God of your father who will help you, by the Almighty (shaddai) who will bless you with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that crouches beneath, blessings of the breasts (shad) and of the womb.
Genesis 49:25


just to add Roy

Sgs 4:5 Thy two breasts [are] like two young roes that are twins, which feed among the lilies.


Job 21:24 His breasts are full of milk, and his bones are moistened with marrow


PS.

Willie H wont be around for a season, hes under going surgery within the next couple of weeks

[Roy Monis]

I will agree, there is a created Christ . . .it's one that my head has formulated.  And there is a born of God Christ . .it's one that my heart has imulated.  Now, which one we choose to follow is up to us.

I choose both because they are one and the same.

(Col. 1:15) "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature".

If Christ is the firstborn of every creature that means he was created.

(Col 1:18) And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning

Christ was the beginning of the creation.

(Rev. 3:14) These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God.

CHB

Hi! CHB

You have quoted incorrectly, brother. Your quote: (Col. 1:15) "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature".

Where does it say that, I don't see it in any of the three Bibles I can afford, the Interlinear Hebrew/English/Greek, the KJV or the NASV. The correct translation is: "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation." (1Col.1:15). Now look up the meaning of firstborn in the centre column and it will take you to 2Cor.4:4 which tells you that the firstborn is the Image of the glory of Christ not the first created image of the creature.

Peace!(http://dl3.glitter-graphics.net/pub/913/913823shy6qui595.gif)

Roy  UK

[Nathan]

So they are dead for over 2000 years, Adam and Eve are dead for much, much longer but we are still very much alive, so what use is all that tripe in the Bible to us let's throw the lot out the window. Is that what you're saying? 'Tis true we can't see the spiritual, you've just thrown it out the window, now no one can see it whether dead or alive. Good going

You're not the first to receive it in this light.  I never said the Bible is no longer of any use to us.  I'm saying . ..say when Paul instructed the women of the church to be silent and let the men receive from the Pastor and then take it home to the wives and let the wives receive the seed from the husbands . . . .do you think that we're to take "that" literally?  No, it was for THAT church setting .  . .THAT group of people in THAT day.  The spirit breathes on his Word . .including the Bible, there's no doubt about that and I'm not trying to take your Bible away.

What I'm trying to do is identify with you that there is a reason for this call to come out of the church.  It's not so that we can become independant in our own thinking . . but it's to call us to a higher understanding . . .a deeper relationship that organized churches have shot themselves in the foot with because they've drawn out boundaries in their beliefs, not allowing them to see a new anything.  So, the church programs can turn people into cattle and the day of farm labor is over . . . it went out with the end of the 6th day.

There's more to this  . .to me . .than just quitting church.  It's not about what you're leaving, it's about "why" did God call you out?  He never takes anything from you unless he's got something better waiting.  So . . .which is it?  Am I supposed to make sure no women teach?  No women are allowed to preach?  Only men can be anointed by God when it comes to ministering to adults?

I don't want to "assume" your answers . . . I get accused of bad things already . . . but in my experience, I have not come across one person that feels that this passage of Scripture pertains to me.  So what then?  Do we just throw it out?  Was it not also inspired by God?  And this is just my point in all of this.  We'll say "no, that part was just for them, the church they had was brand-new and they didn't have any established way of handling things then so Paul had to teach them how to conduct themselves."  

So IF that part isn't supposed to be applied literally . . .then where does it end?  Are we to leave it up to ourselves as to what verse is taken literally and what verse isn't?  And I believe that's just what we "have" done . . .which is another reason why there are so many different denominations.  Everybody has their own version of how to apply it literally.  So . . .it occurred to me one day . . .what if NONE of it is to be taken literally . .like . . .in the same manner  they received it when it was written to them.

Now, people are telling me I'm saying you should throw the Bible out and beings those people are all dead, the Bible is dead as well . . . come on . .think about your accusations.  I'm a pastor for pitty sake . . .I preach out of the Bible EVERY Sunday . .so why would I then say it's useless?  I'm not saying that at all.  I'm not even saying that by applying it literally to your own life, that it's not effective . . .what I "am" saying is . . .there's so much MORE to it than just what's on the surface.

So, if I'm not to apply that passage about women being silent literally . . .how "do" I apply it?  Ha!  So glad you asked :cloud9:  You apply it "spiritually"  (big surprise!)  What is the spiritual picture with that passage?  Well, the man is your spirit, the woman is your mind . . .the woman is to remain silent so the spirit can receive the Word of Truth and then, as the mind is in submission to the spirit . . .the original order of our Genesis, Truth can then be birthed into our understanding . . .my mind is my womb.

So I quit picking what is and what isn't to be applied literally, and I've chosen to pursue all of it on the same plain . . .spiritually.  And from there, other things begin to manifest.  Jesus said his words are "spirit".  Nothing of what he stated was intended to be taken literally.  The disciples took him literally . . .they still thought that he was literally going to be King of Israel.  Well, if the Word was the beginning . . .the Word was with God . . .and the word WAS/IS God. . .then if we weren't to take Jesus words literally, why are we embracing the written word literally?

Again, I am not saying there is absolutely no room for literal understanding . . .I'm saying that the literal piece is just a stepping stone to lead you into the spiritual piece.  When I walk in the spirit, I see it's not about being right or wrong . . .I see that this kind of thinking is connected to the tree of knowledge of "good" and "evil".  Living in that tree, one always must define black from white, up from down, left from right . . .in the tree of life . . . both in balance are "good."  Both "bring" balance, which is . ."Good."

[Paul Hazelwood]

I think the literal depiction that women shouldn't be preaching has nothing to do with how many years ago it was written.  The literal is also for now as well, do not get wrapped up in the mystical thinking that "modern times" means a hill of beans.

It is to cause women to see and fullfill their role as nurturing spirits so that they can preach in a way a man cannot.  I am not trying to be sexist but fuuzy wuzzy men preachers fail miserably,  but women can preach that way and it can soften the hearts of people and inspire love even in men.  However, to inspire with determination and strength, a man has that down and can motivate women to be strong.

It is not about not preaching it is about women not preaching in the same manner as men.

[sparrow]

Paul...
that was great, bro.
I agree with you.
:HeartThrob:,
sparrow

[laren]

 
1Cr 7:29 But this I say, brethren, the time [is] short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none; 


literally, I guess we married  folk should be as though we aren't

[rosered]

I think the literal depiction that women shouldn't be preaching has nothing to do with how many years ago it was written.  The literal is also for now as well, do not get wrapped up in the mystical thinking that "modern times" means a hill of beans.

It is to cause women to see and fullfill their role as nurturing spirits so that they can preach in a way a man cannot.  I am not trying to be sexist but fuuzy wuzzy men preachers fail miserably,  but women can preach that way and it can soften the hearts of people and inspire love even in men.  However, to inspire with determination and strength, a man has that down and can motivate women to be strong.

It is not about not preaching it is about women not preaching in the same manner as men.

lol , good job Paul  I do believe that Paul the apostle was speaking more of this lines in the effeminate nature Effeminate1  Strong's Number: 3120 Greek: malakos
"soft, soft to the touch" (Lat., mollis, Eng., "mollify," "emollient," etc.), is used (a) of raiment, Mat 11:8 (twice); Luk 7:25; (b) metaphorically, in a bad sense, 1Cr 6:9, "effeminate," not simply of a male who practices forms of lewdness, but persons in general, who are guilty of addiction to sins of the flesh, voluptuous.


Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Jam 3:15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but [is] earthly, sensual, devilish.


 there is the ''spiritual preaching '' and than there is that ''soulful preaching '' too  is  it not ..soul·ful  
adj.   Full of or expressing deep feeling; profoundly emotional.

soul'ful·ly adv., soul'ful·ness n.
 ears to hear what the Spirit of God is saying is key to understanding  .......
    peace rr

[Taffy]

Well, the man is your spirit, the woman is your mind . . .the woman is to remain silent so the spirit can receive the Word of Truth and then, as the mind is in submission to the spirit . . .the original order of our Genesis, Truth can then be birthed into our understanding . . .my mind is my womb

simply put bro...

women are likened to the Church and Man to Christ..Adam first , theN Eve.....NOT CALLED TO USURP THE AUTHORITY OF THE man....

The woman (representative of the church) must give BIRTH, by which a "man" is born into the world, SAVED bY CHILDBEARING...



But In Christ there is No male or Female. we are all equal......THIS ALL SPEAKS VERY MUCH AFTER THE SPIRITUAL.

Later bro

[Roy Monis]

Hi Nathan,

This isn't a 2000 year old message.  It's a message for today--what is, and was, and will be.

Haven't you noticed what is going on in this country?  Haven't you noticed what is going on in the world?

People are dying every day, all over the world, because of the antichrist--millions of them.

What happens when the sheep have blind guides and vipers leading them?

They are made more the chldren of Hell than their guides.  They are scattered by the wolves and eaten alive.

Central to our faith, our life, our future is --who do men say that I the Son of man am?

--But who do you say I am?  (Mat 16)


We won't enter into our rest until enough men answer that question correctly--such that we have the manifestation of the sons of God.

Hi! Molly

Well quoted "-But who do you say I am?"  And what did they say? The answer "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." (Matt.16:16). Not the false antichrist created, idol, he calls christ.

Unless we accept this fact, judgment, and in my opinion only severe judgment, is the order of the day.

Peace!(http://dl4.glitter-graphics.net/pub/1176/1176424t4nufen6go.gif)

Roy   UK

[rosered]

1Cr 7:29 But this I say, brethren, the time [is] short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none; 


literally, I guess we married  folk should be as though we aren't

 yeppers Laren  

 seeing being faithful to Jesus Christ [ His body  TRUE Church]
 and not so much ''Joined''  to the world

 its not   a  thing that can be done ,  we are one or the other to me
 this is why   Jesus and Paul both spoke of  cast out
 and castaways  to me
 peace rosered